I'm an alcoholic

AA was very important to me for the first many years of my sobriety. I eventually dropped it because after the initial help, I actually found that it made me think more about drinking than not. Which is part of the philosophy but it was also making me profoundly depressed. That's just me though and I still know plenty of people who are very involved. Whether you go to AA or not, the Big Book is extremely helpful to read and it's very well written.

I like your post La Lechera

also akm I never heard of the big book before

I wish all the best for you sleeve

xpost sleeve I believe that is David Berman (the quote)

the 'big book' is the book "alcoholics anonymous".

you can read it online here: https://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/alcoholics-anonymous

cool, thanks

and thanks UMS, unbelievably I have never gotten into the guy's work even though we have one degree of separation via Charlottesville friends

oh thanks to brimstead there as well, I don't even know what "lifering" is!

thanks akm

hey sleeve--hope you get to where you want to be. best of luck.

oh thanks to brimstead there as well, I don't even know what "lifering" is!

― sleeve, Monday, August 26, 2019 5:10 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

it's like aa/na but secular and more laid back, no twelve step program, etc.

(Obviously IANAD and i don't know what your health insurance situation is) but if you're struggling, it may be helpful to check out a substance abuse programs from a legit health provider. that's what really helped me in any case. best of luck.

xpost ah that is odd figured you would be into SJ.... great stuff though I might suggest now would not be the best time tbh

all the best, sleeve, we're all rooting for you

Hugs, sleeve

I was so excited about my plan for endless sparkling water through the day and bitters and soda and the bar, then my blarrrgh mom-in-law gave me a long speech about how carbonated water was terrible for your teeth and so great, now what? I do like flat water with lime but that was similarly shot down. Guess it’s water! Water water. Ok. Ice is nice.

I don't really think its that bad for your teeth

I think it's about the pH of one's saliva? If you chew some xylitol gum between sodas it should help.

I drink lots of Sodastream and my dentist told me it was fine as long as I'm not adding sugar. I think you're supposed to intersperse acidic drinks with regular water if you want to be careful.

hmmm

No long-term studies have looked at enamel erosion in the teeth of sparkling-water drinkers.

And club soda and carbonated mineral water (like plain San Pellegrino or Perrier) have added or naturally occurring minerals, which raise the pH to about 5, well outside the erosion zone.

and

Seltzer or sparkling water with nothing added has a pH between 3 and 4, so either may damage your enamel. But drinking them with food raises the pH of what’s in your mouth. “So it’s largely a problem if you’re drinking them alone,” says Ruby.

https://cspinet.org/tip/your-seltzer-habit-harming-your-teeth

this is good to know, I was planning on drinking a lot of shrubs and fancy sodas but this gives me pause

basically it's the CO2 into carbonic acid issue, just like the oceans

Topo Chico is the answer

I tried to find an image of Tintin immersing his face and arms in the water of an oasis with a speech bubble that reads “loving, loving water” but no dice but you get the idea

call all destroyer, your input is requested:

non-alcoholic cocktails: S/D, recipes, your input here

TS: burning your enamel vs burning your liver.

“So it’s largely a problem if you’re drinking them alone,” says Ruby.

xpost regarding non-alcohol cocktails, just for consideration because I don't know enough about addiction so am hesitant to post, but I did a small research project recently about no alcohol/low alcohol beverage trends and I did come across a lot of commentary about people in recovery needing to be careful about similar rituals, environments or palates with alcohol consumption possibly being triggering.

thank you, that's helpful.

https://longreads.com/2019/08/27/alcoholism-reading-list/

massive hugs to you, sleeve. Add a tiny tiny pinch of baking soda to your seltzer to buffer and reduce acidity, works great with the sodastream.

Topo Chico is the answer

To be clear, alcohol itself is not the current issue. My regular drinking has probably exacerbated other issues, and I decided it was best to quit while working the other things out. My doctor just told me "a problem drinker wouldn't be able to just quit on their own for a week" which I've done twice this year along with general cutting down. So I'm not sure I'm "really" an alcoholic, but I want to stop for a good six months minimum while I'm working on the other stuff (which is what fucked up my life, not the booze).

Your doctor gave an incorrect assessment of problem drinking.

yeah i just didn't drink for 4 weeks and oh boy am i a problem drinker

Yeah that’s an odd yardstick to use for a “problem”. I would think a truly dedicated drinker (speaking from experience here) could easily sweat it out for a week if it meant they could booze without restriction after the cold turkey.

i think you'd have to drink an awful lot of seltzer water to do anything to your teeth. don't worry about it. that's dumb.

"My doctor just told me "a problem drinker wouldn't be able to just quit on their own for a week" which I've done twice this year along with general cutting down."

your doctor is wrong.

though, I can see why he said that. I quit drinking on my own for something like 8 years at one point and I'm certainly a problem drinker as it became clear the minute I started again (at which point I then went into actual recovery). But even then I did have some poeple in AA asking if I was really sure I had a problem because it wasn't conceivable to them that anyone could stop drinking on their own for 8 years.

doctor in "fucking moron" shock

This makes me sad. I have a close family member who used to be absolved by his doctor and it led to endless bickering, mostly with me, about what it means for drinking to be interfering in our relationship. I have long narrative examples, but to me it should be enough for me to say “this is interfering in our relationship”

I do think taking lenient docs w a grain of salt is a good idea.

This was when I was much younger, decades ago. And it still stings to think about his doctor saying he was fit as a fiddle, don’t change a thing. Always felt to me like he was bro-coding his advice. See aforementioned grain of salt.

I quit drinking on my own for something like 8 years at one point and I'm certainly a problem drinker as it became clear the minute I started again (at which point I then went into actual recovery).

I had been quit for over two years when earlier this year I decided to see if I could "drink like a gentleman again" and enjoy an occasional glass of gin or scotch. Soon enough, I found myself on a bit of a bender drinking straight from the bottle again and really had to pull the brakes. Haven't done any official recovery business yet though.

problem drinking (or problem-anything) is any time you feel like its a problem & youre not in control of it, full stop. Doesnt matter how much you do it, how often, when, if youve stopped before.

I went into recovery for doing a thing that I wanted desperately to stop but couldnt stop. Doctor & therapist both were like "this doesnt seem like a problem bc its not really messing up your life like it typically does for 'problem [doers of this thing]'". My take was that if i am not in control of my actions to the extent that I cant stop doing something that I really really want to stop, to me thats a problem.

a lot of doctors seem to look at things purely from a perspective of diagnosis and treatment. "what are your symptoms? what are the physical harms? what treatment can we do?" and basically ignoring other concerns like your wellbeing

Physicians seem to think in terms of obvious withdrawal symptoms, and if you don’t have those, no problem... for *them* to have to deal with.

Appropriate dr input in these matters is “I do not have adequate expertise in this, please see so-and-so this week and follow up with me next week, I hear your concerns and take them seriously.”

Unless of course it is a doc well schooled in SUDs, in which case god love ‘em (paging dr gbx).

Oh! So I just consulted with my therapist about this. She reminded me of something that I'd forgotten-- the influence of gut flora on your moods and patterns. That a specific balance of gut flora that prefers alcohol will effectively motivate you to consume alcohol. My therapist gave the example of the parasite that infects mice and cats in sequence; at a certain point, the parasite (in the mouse) will desire to move to the cat, and the mouse will develop (as a result of the parasite's influence) an attraction to the smell of cats. The mouse effectively puts themselves in a position where they are caught, and consumed by the cat, and the parasite changes hosts in this way.

So I'm going to be mindful of that, and I'm going to go back on probiotics. I was taking them regularly until... four months ago? I'm gonna add that to the list of 'tools for sobriety'.

It’s unusually nice out. Time for another pint (famous last words).

the influence of gut flora on your moods and patterns. That a specific balance of gut flora that prefers alcohol will effectively motivate you to consume alcohol. My therapist gave the example of the parasite that infects mice and cats in sequence

OK let me rephrase: alcohol does not *seem* to be the primary driver of the primary problems/issues I am having. it does contribute to some related secondary problems, which is why I'm stopping. point taken re: doctor.

sorry for vague but this is absolutely not just about my drinking, I feel that's secondary at best.

I have another appt with a specialist tomorrow and will get their take.

Brain: there's no reason to have another drink right now, it won't make you feel any better but it might put you over the legal limit and you'll probably get a hangover

Mouth: sure I'll have another

xp to myself:

and I gave all my booze away yesterday btw

Speaking as a former microbiologist and current social worker, your therapist is practicing well out of their scope.