"oh you don't get me I'm the end of the union": lol brexit is how we're all gonna die

Yes.

Corbyn just can't be reactive to everything the press says, Matt. I know what you mean in terms of perception but you can't have a grown-up conversation with Nick Cohen.

I was wondering whether Corbyn as PM could get the Bank of England to release the Venezuelan cash or not. In that sense his positions matter.

May's gang seem to admire + are currently trying out the regional "pork barrel" bribery politics of the Americas, but then talk a load of shite about how our iteration of democracy is an example to the world + the font of all freedoms blah blah. I really want to see the back of this lot very soon.

This sets out nicely what I said the other day about the applicability of the Bribery Act re: pork barrel politics. I would certainly write to the police asking them to consider forwarding to the CPS if any MP went down the Section 2 path. pic.twitter.com/Uf5PmZJkGI

— Paul Cotterill (@Bickerrecord) February 4, 2019

I don't know if this is a bit hopeful.

There's no coup. There's the leader of the one politically legitimate body in Venezuela calling on a military dictator to step aside, and it's maddening that people who should know better are just bullshitting about it. The coup was in 2017, and it was against the opposition-led National Assembly. After that, there's been no legitimate government of Venezuela, and therefore nothing to 'coup'.

Corbyn just can't be reactive to everything the press says, Matt. I know what you mean in terms of perception but you can't have a grown-up conversation with Nick Cohen.

It's not about getting into dialogue with hostile individuals, it's about making properly thought-out early statements that clear up ambiguity about his position. He was too late doing that with the Skripals and last summer's antisemitism row. As I said I don't think it really matters here but it would save Labour a lot of grief by at least attempting to put out fires before they spread.

Can we have imago, Jim and LBI's galaxy takes on Venezuela. Please keep Fred's bullshit in mind, its going to be a tough one to top.

XP = I was just giving Cohen as an example...its fair on AS for sure.

He was pretty clear on Skripal, wasn't he? He was just stupid and wrong.

it's ambiguous what 'clearing up ambiguity' means other than 'answering questions framed by your opponents'

How do you pretend to be a political leader if you can't answer questions framed by your opponents convincingly?

Because they are not asked in good faith dummy

can we ban fred from this thread please

OTM. How was he wrong about Skripal?

I think with AS there were genuine questions from the membership to the leadership that weren't cleared. These moments are there on immigration too.

Because they are not asked in good faith dummy

― xyzzzz__, 5. februar 2019 12:27 (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

So what? If you can only answer questions if they're asked in good faith, you're worthless as a politician.

And yeah he wasn't wrong about Skripal, the need for evidence before pushing the trigger iirc. That it might have had an effect on the polling is just people being dumb.

Fred Corbyn has been leader of Labour for longer than Gordon Brown, you are an internet Danish film critic, sit down man.

We're all internet critics here tbf.

possible responses to this malformed post:

1. not being convincing is what differentiates pretenders from the real deal, it's a pre-req
2. no one answers every question put to them, it's a question of picking carefully
3. you can offer your own framing
4. debates and bad faith back and forth is not normally what changes ppls minds
5. 'convincingly' begs a lot of questions

There was clearly enough evidence that the Russians weren't going to cooperate on an attack on British soil on an enemy of Putin. Nobody was 'jumping the gun' or 'pushing the trigger'. And of course, as everyone should have foreseen, it became clearer and clearer that Russia was behind the attacks, and Corbyn looked dumber and dumber.

Corbyn is a lot better than Gordon Brown, lol, let's not go crazy. It's just maddening the low low expectations there is for him to just, like, get these things right?

"let's just expel their diplomats and be legends"

Fred otm. Save your skepticism for diplomatic incidents that don't involve a repeat offender.

who da fuq is fred

An internet Danish film critic.

oh yeah the guy who was bad at burning

He's got more geopolitical hottakes of certainty than there are actually countries in the world.

Pomenitul I need your take on Venezuela.

Also can one of you make up a Venezuelan girlfriend at some point. Entertain me.

venezuela situation is mad. you might even say it was caracas!

i will not be pushed for further comment

My take on Venezuela is: fuck Maduro, fuck Trump, fuck Bolsonaro, etc. It's a proper dictatorship at this point but a US-led military intervention would likely do more harm than good.

Thanks to both of you.

As anyone who has seen Golden Lion winning film 'From Afar' as many times as I have will now, Maduro's got to go. Also, the task is as much to avoid Columbia and Brazil intervening on their own as it's getting Trump to stand down.

coupl-aid entrance

South America

Rah, I am back from Venezuela

horrible opossums resembling horrible vladimir putin

^^^
brexit thread moves too fast for major geopolitical digressions IMO, they have (or need) their own threads
(there's actually a p good case for a "corbz: tactics vs strategy who will win" thread, i wd happily* debate** fred there)

*you know what i mean
**never click on it

And The Colombia/Ecuador/Venezuela Mess or Let's Place Bets on How Long Before the U.S. Backs a Colombian War With Venezuela From 2008, impressively.

My wife's gone to Venezuela to report on the crisis
Caracas?
No, she wants to investigate the situation on the ground in order to develop the kind of informed, nuanced take on the situation there which has been so far absent from the media here

this is the #content i want for this thread

more puns less flags

my wife's gone to venezuela to petition the president
maduro?
no i'm not physically capable of paddling across the atlantic

bring back fred

my wife has left me for a prominent corbyn critic
aaronovitch?
no, she's gone quite bald

Camaraderie - Good luck to your 'wife' and I hope she can come up with better than 'I watched this doc five times get Trump in there'.

I didn't think this thread was just for Brexit, its a digression that intersects with the way a potential future UK government might act in the foreign arena.

i also wish good luck to cameraderies wife who definitely has gone to venezuela

my wife's taken to playing a plastic horn, about 65 centimetres (2 ft) long, which produces a loud monotone note, typically around B 3
vuvuzela?
yes

my wife plays with an italian bob marley tribute act

venice wailer?

im sorry what

is she a venice...wailer. you know...like the town in ita

oh deary me no no thats awful no this conversation is over thank you good day

Corbyn said the right thing on Russia/the Skripals, he just offered a detailed response too late. Obviously his critics are never going to make their arguments in good faith, which is why you need to delineate and define your argument quickly. The longer you take before doing so, the more time it gives your opponents to do it for you.

Meanwhile this story appeared yesterday and didn't draw much comment, but it's important:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/brexit-could-put-17-million-people-around-globe-into-extreme-poverty-study

Under the Everything But Arms (EBA) agreement, 49 least-developed countries can export to the European Union tariff-free. With an impending Brexit, these vulnerable states will no longer have access to the UK market through EBA.

If a “hard Brexit” – the return to World Trade Organisation’s rules of trade – was to take place, the authors found Cambodia would be affected the most of all least-developed countries. It has the highest dependence on the UK market with 7.7% of its exports going to the UK.

traidcraft are closing their retail arm bc the costs of importing have become too high even before brexit

:(

xp

from ogmor's post:

3. you can offer your own framing

I think you're talking about something slightly different - the ability to put your interpretation on an event or thing - but this reminded me of some media training I had a few years ago and they kept on banging on about ABC:
1. Acknowledge the question - 'I'm pleased you asked me that because it's an important topic....'
2. Bridge - 'And it's because a load of people are concerned with that topic that I need to talk about my topic, that I want to talk about'
3. Communicate - 'So, the great thing about my topic is that it's great.'

Because we're know this happens all the time - it's just how it is - i think it's quite easy to forget how insidious it is - all interviewers know it's happening, all interviewees will have been trained to deliver it - so everyone just goes along with it and 'answer the question' or repeating the question 50 times is just seen as part of the 'game'. With a script politician like Theresa May it's her entire MO and is very transparent. You will get people say that not doing this would be refreshing but breaching it as a protocol is fraught with risk - you run the risk of not knowing the answer, or not having important information to hand, or getting figures wrong - very easy to have people shouting 'gaffe'at you or to be seen as naive.