Michael Jackson is "evil"

the one I remember is "What's the difference between Michael Jackson and a plastic bag? One is white and harmful to children, and the other holds groceries"

I loved Thriller as a kid (I was in 4th grade when it came out), all the kids in the schoolyard had vinyl Beat It jackets — I had the red one, others had the black one. But I started to sour on him with Bad — he looked different, the songs were colder, there was just something off. There's a joy and excitement still to Off the Wall/Thriller, while everything that followed seems calculated and creepy.

Dangerous is the album I listen to most, but what do I know

The plastic surgery was disturbing, it’s true. Around Bad seems to be when he lost any resemblance to his actual appearance—before he had a nose job and stuff but it wasn’t transformative

And for me, there was a plausible deniability (maybe not so plausible in retrospect) that the abuse allegations were unfounded, that he was a weird man-child but that it hadn't necessarily been sexual. That maybe he was asexual, which of course seems naive now.

All his attempts to be sexy or provocative felt like they came from a place of insecurity - the crotch grabbing, that weird kiss w/ Lisa Maria Presley at the VMAs, even stuff like "Billie Jean", kinda...I would've totally believed he was asexual

It seems like a lot of people were willing to extend him the benefit of the doubt despite his eccentricity/creepiness, and that this seemingly came from a compassionate place. It sucks fhat this generosity was misguided.

There *was* a kind of gentleness about him that doesn’t square with the image of a predator. However the evidence is what it is—it mostly points to his guilt

It's disturbing to consider this "compassionate place" was actually a well-funded PR campaign to burnish his image and discredit his accusers.

It seems like a lot of people were willing to extend him the benefit of the doubt despite his eccentricity/creepiness...

Yeah, or the PR campign exploited people’s desire to not think the worst of someone who was obviously suffering himself

idk it didn't seem like any of his celebrity friends were willing to say a single negative word about him either

eccentricity and asexuality was also jimmy savile's cover btw

There *was* a kind of gentleness about him that doesn’t square with the image of a predator. However the evidence is what it is—it mostly points to his guilt

― Trϵϵship, Monday, 28 January 2019 15:45 (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

pls dont have an image of a predator

https://www.sideshowtoy.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/predator-jungle-hunter-maquette-sideshow-thumb-300158-2.jpg

Yeah, you can see where the nose job caved in there.

Definitely asexual though.

Michael Jackson was probably the biggest celebrity of our lifetime!

can't really argue with this. he was like the Beatles if they fucked little kids and only had about one album's worth of classic material

My experiences were similar to others here born in the early '70s, though I never heard of that pledge of allegiance variant until just now. I also didn't know about the "Mony Mony" chant until maybe 4-5 years ago.

I didn't seriously get into MJ's work until my late teens. I heard Thriller in full for the first time the same week I first heard John Coltrane's "Live" At The Village Vanguard and Cheap Trick's debut. That was a good week (though I was already intimately familiar with 7 of the album's 9 songs, inescapable as they were in '82-'84). I never liked Bad much, and Quincy needed MJ far more than MJ needed Quincy, as Destiny, Triumph, and MJ's home demos make abundantly clear.

I went back and forth on his innocence/guilt at the time, probably steered too much by an Ishmael Reed column which seemed to lay out a convincing case for his innocence...but then, Reed also repeatedly called Anita Hill a liar, so I should've known better than to take him seriously on MJ.

Reed has some p odd opinions (altho I love a bunch of his books)

Mumbo Jumbo and The Last Days of Louisiana Red are absolutely all-time for me, but...yeah, he's fucked up on some things.

yeah those two are incredible

Reed is both a crank and a treasure it’s true

the one I remember is "What's the difference between Michael Jackson and a plastic bag? One is white and harmful to children, and the other holds groceries"

― frogbs, Monday, January 28, 2019 6:55 AM (two hours ago)

ooh damn! that's a good one!

Another one I remember: "Why did Michael Jackson get a speeding ticket on the way to Sears? Because there was a huge sale: boys pants, half off"

Michael Jackson was probably the biggest celebrity of our lifetime!
can't really argue with this. he was like the Beatles if they fucked little kids and only had about one album's worth of classic material
― Οὖτις, Monday, 28 January 2019 16:13 (one hour ago) Permalink

off the wall and thriller, my dude.

the common thread might be that reed is kind of an old-school misogynist, no? or at least sexist.

how do we know the Beatles didn't fuck little kids -- i mean, there were 4 of them, coulda done more damage

this is a weird line of discussion i have to say.

first song on the first Beatles album is about that, iirc

xp - i applaud this exciting new line of discussion

one thing that is interesting is how people reluctant to give Michael his due (often for very meritorious reasons) are quick to credit quincy jones w/ the sleek power of his best records. but for all QJ's talents, if you look at what he was working on in the late 1970s and through the 1980s, pretty much none of it is anywhere near as memorable as his work w/ MJ. a late period Lena Horne record? Patti Austin? some of the more mediocre Rufus and Donna Summer LPs? the only classic among QJ's productions of that era, other than MJ, is George Benson's "Give Me the Night" (single, not full LP). so whatever MJ brought to the table and/or brought out in QJ is immense. it doesn't hurt that they probably had songwriters lining up to place their best songs w/ MJ.

anyway.

QJ's best album is a Sinatra record imo

https://pitchfork.com/news/michael-jackson-estate-denounces-ILX-rehashing-Michael-Jackson-jokes/

off the wall and thriller, my dude.

yeah strip out the crap from those records and there's one really good one

the worthiness of mj's catalog seems beside the fucking point

i mean, the "point" is whatever we feel like talking about here, no?

speaking of which: i'm not sure what QJ's reputation ca. 1978 was, but i get the sense that he was already considered slightly washed up or at least not on his top game. his Aretha LP, for instance, which is actually pretty damn good, didn't get great reviews IIRC. so MJ did at least as much for his standing and reputation as vice-versa.

i mean, the "point" is whatever we feel like talking about here, no

ok sure

NB i have a reflex that whenever i hear the words "Quincy Jones" i hear "in the heeeeeaaaatttt of the night" in my head.

let's focus on our highest priority people, updating this thread: The Tragedie of Michael Jackson, King of Pop

can i just say that i hate qualitative denunciations of artists when coupled with allegations of sexual abuse especially of minors, i.e. "i knew this person was bad all along, also their music has been bad!!!!"

cosign

i also hate child rape jokes though so this thread is not for me lol

I knew Carlo Gesualdo was an entitled murderous Venosan nobleman all along! His music suxxx!

going to go out on a limb here and lay out my controversial opinion that MJ was a very talented musician and also a child abuser.

the common thread might be that reed is kind of an old-school misogynist, no? or at least sexist.

I checked out Quincy's production discography last night when he got brought up on this thread and was pretty baffled. Before that, the only things I associated him with were MJ, We Are the World, that last Miles Davis concert, and the Fresh Prince of Bel Air. I had just presumed that in between MJ records he was doing a bunch of other funk/soul/pop.

can i just say that i hate qualitative denunciations of artists when coupled with allegations of sexual abuse especially of minors, i.e. "i knew this person was bad all along, also their music has been bad!!!!"

happy to separate the two if you like, both are true imo

you know it iirc

lol

you listen to father john misty xxp