Let us anticipate Greta Gerwig's directorial debut "Lady Bird"

I ran into a friend over the weekend who, I've realized, defaults to a sort of half-argumentative conversational banter by default. I mentioned really enjoying this film and he was prodding me about how, if it were to be about a young man instead, no one would care. After rolling my eyes for a moment, because no one needs to engage on that point, I realized that there is a character for me in the film.

I hadn't realized before seeing Lady Bird that it takes place over her senior year in high school, and is set in 2002 - 2003. That was my senior year of college! So age-wise... I'm a year younger than Lady Bird's older brother, Miguel.

The small plot pieces that set up the time period were subtle, Alanis Morissette and Dave Matthews sing-alongs aside but really sold it for me.

I loved that they did Sondheim's Merrily We Roll Along and went all-in on showing them putting it on. meaning in addition to learning the script for Lady Bird, they had to learn chunks of Merrily We Roll Along too (underappreciated musical)

H8 everyone who doesn’t love and relate to this movie.

In the film Sacramento seemed to mean primarily something like 'suburban, safe, boring' - hence LB's desire to go to NYC (understandable but a pretty standard destination for anyone wanting to see the bright lights).

But this whole opposition didn't have much drive for me because Sacramento didn't look boring in the film - it looked glamorous and beautiful - partly because Gerwig wanted it to look that way anyway!

Lady Bird’s desire to “get out” has more to do with being a teenager and wanting to come into her own identity than it does the particular conditions of her life in Sacramento. Her mother — like all parents — takes the teen rebelliom personally, but it’s a more general kind of rejection of home. And then she comes to an understanding at the end that she was never really resentful of her mother pwe se. Her rebellion was a kind of a necessary but painful phase it’s adolescence nothing to do with sacramento or new york

The movie is great because it recognizes that Lady Bird’s independent streak is BOTH a source of integrity AND immaturity. The movie’s sympathy is not condescending but it also doesn’t romanticize adolescent contrarianism — it’s all seem as part of the human condition. There’s probably a better way to phrase all this but i need to get back to work.

it recognizes that Lady Bird’s independent streak is BOTH a source of integrity AND immaturity

otm

she doesn't even rebel very much! she's kind of an offbeat kid, a conformist non-conformist -- wants to go by a name she chose, runs for student council with the funny posters, cool hair color, but there's no indication that she skips school or really gets in trouble before she tries to impress the "cool" kids. and even then, the nun isn't really bothered because her prank is within the bounds of mild teenage playfulness

it's pretty clear when she gets to college that she never really drank much alcohol as a high school kid

treeship otm, otm

great posts from treesh and Tim.

It seemed to me that her rebellion is felt a lot more by her mother because of their specific situation - the economy is tanking which means you feel this pressure and fragility even before the eventual job loss, and when things should be getting better they're getting worse.

And when could really do with having a sober-minded family member, you've got a teenager, and part of your job is not to freak them out even when they keep tapping at the "wheels fall off" button.

(hey hi in case it's not clear I am projecting pretty strongly here, and will probably dial it back down after a second viewing)

honestly the scenes where she's trying to impress the school kids are so relatable because her rebellious streak has a ceiling due to her being kind-hearted at the core. it very much reminded me of when I was in middle school, trying to fit in and swearing for the first time and having my mom buy me the cool clothes, lying about small things to seem more 'rebellious'...but having to part company when anything truly mean-spirited happened. and of course in the end it doesn't work.

then you return to being who you were before only now you appreciate it more.

all the guys at my school around 8th grade were wearing those dirty Big Johnson shirts and it took about a year and a half for the school to ban them because it took them that long to get the joke.

Yeah, I was about to say that I loved the last scene with Danny, where she's wound up because of what his actions have done to her and complicated what's already a complicated time - but once she sees how freaked out he is, she comforts him.

Also anyone whose heart doesn't sing at her and her mother's "favourite afternoon activity" is frankly dead.

that was a great scene (the Danny one).

really? real estate hopping? I laughed but it didn't make any of my organs sing.

I'll take that.

can we discuss again how beautifully staged and acted the Danny/Lady Bird coming out sequences are?

I recall Lady Bird spitting out “you’re gay” as an attack, her face softening as she realizes what she knows and what it means for her friend

open house gawking is a classic activity in smaller cities and I did that with my mom!

I'd forgotten what the after school activity was. I suppose it may have meant nothing to me as neither I nor most of my classmates grew up primarily in a single family house, and have never really desired to live in one.

open houses are almost entirely a sunday afternoon thing

Tim: it's always good to ... 'Reflect on Rye'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDmgbvGQeF4

I'm grateful to Moo Vaughn for being the only person apart from Tim who agrees with me and I would like to read his or her thoughts on the film (which are apparently on another thread).

Yes let's keep the Lady Bird opinions confined to non-Lady Bird threads, only discussion about God Is Not Dead 3 itt

God: still not dead yet

Happy coincidence - just read this entry from Anthony Powell's Journals, 19.5.82:

"When I was young, and people used to say - as they often did - what an awful place Rye was, with its tarted up antique shops, bogus bohemians, horses brasses, and lesbians, there was always someone to add that Rye was nothing, in some respects, to Winchelsea, which was far worse."

I like both.

'Reflect on Winchelsea'.

Ford Madox Ford did - he lived there - as you probably know, Ward.

But there IS a beautiful place in Sussex called Rye which is near to the SEA yay!
Seriously, yeah that sounded tragically like a parody. The article Elton wrote in the Daily Mail about how all modern pop was rubbish and Queen were the greatest band of all time sealed his fate for me.

― Robin Carmody, Monday, May 13, 2002 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

um, isn't it Rhye?
I'll get me studded vest.

― Mark C, Monday, May 13, 2002 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Rye sucks.
― Graham, Monday, May 13, 2002 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

B-but Henry James' house is in Rye!
― Andrew L, Tuesday, May 14, 2002 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

THE MASTER!
― mark s, Tuesday, May 14, 2002 Bookmark

This is the thread where Graham complained about Rye and Tim said it was actually OK.

Of course I was incorrect to say that Tim explicitly said he wanted to live in Rye. But he was positive about it - as I would be.

I now think that this thread genuinely articulates the issues discussed from LADY BIRD (2017) on ILX in 2002.

How am I going to stay sane for the next 3 months?

I did know that Pinefox, yes. You may also know of Miranda Seymour's book A Ring of Conspirators, which is a good guide to Henry James' literary circle in and around Rye, including Ford, Kipling, Crane and Wells.

I don't think I can do, but I can offer this in response:

http://www.nytimes.com/1982/05/30/books/neighbors-friends-collaborators-enemies.html?pagewanted=all

They sound like very similar books!

I am glad that we have found a thread on which to discuss Rye.

OK, this was about 3 degrees less irritating than the Garden State/Adventureland/Little Miss Sunshine axis wtf is wrong with everyone.

Idk maybe we all have a soul

It’s possible

the jokes are funnier than Adventureland, c'mon

haven't subjected myself to the other two

OK, this was about 3 degrees less irritating than the Garden State/Adventureland/Little Miss Sunshine axis wtf is wrong with everyone.

― two cool rock chicks pounding la croix (circa1916)

That formulation makes as much sense as Bush's Axis of Evil.

yeah this movie was much much more genuine than either of those three, none of which featured characters as deep as the gym teacher-turned-drama teacher who shows up for two scenes, let alone any of the core family members.

like where does Garden State come from? that movie was basically overwrought pathos-by-numbers. this was a much more believable, lived-in universe.

It is more deeply felt and a cut above those films, but there’s a shared aesthetic (really is it hard to fathom that grouping?) and it’s not one I can stomach so easily in 2018.

Expectations tainted by uninhibited praise from all corners I guess. It’s a better version of a thing I hate.

Unpack the grouping

I can see that, it's a thin line, I understand the criticism & dislike, I hate all that shit too. But it never crossed my mind watching Lady Bird. But I understand it

OK, this was about 3 degrees less irritating than the Garden State/Adventureland/Little Miss Sunshine axis wtf is wrong with everyone.
― two cool rock chicks pounding la croix (circa1916)

Idk maybe we all have a soul
― valorous wokelord (silby)

It’s possible
― two cool rock chicks pounding la croix (circa1916)

Like Lady Bird, love Adventureland, but I love that exchange.

there’s a shared aesthetic

what is it?

youth?

Whiteness. Let’s be honest.

Let's say I'd love for Gerwig to have directed Garden State to see how she would have dealt with those tiresome tropes.

films about people that are annoyed all the time?