No, I was just trying to make the point that not dealing with race doesn't equate racist. Problematic, maybe, but not every film can deal with everything.
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 15 December 2005 11:29 (eighteen years ago) link
― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 15 December 2005 11:33 (eighteen years ago) link
birth of a nation was a fairytale, reagan's 'morning in america' ads were a fairytale. and amelie does deal with race. pointedly. but you're right, best not to think about art or what they say about the society that produces it.
First of all, your comparison is totally unfair, but I think you know it. Secondly, of course you need to think about the society that produces art, but that doesn't mean we can't enjoy certain pieces of art, like Amélie, nevertheless. Otherwise we'd need to throw out most of the films ever made, including 99% of Golden Age Hollywood movies. But I don't think you really disagree with me on this.
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 15 December 2005 12:06 (eighteen years ago) link
― Jeff-Beetle (Jeff), Thursday, 15 December 2005 13:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 15 December 2005 13:41 (eighteen years ago) link
― Jibé (Jibé), Thursday, 15 December 2005 13:44 (eighteen years ago) link
ILX TOP 50 FILMS OF 2000-2004 NOMINATIONS THREAD
Don't really understand why the voting thread was started before the nominations closed, but maybe I missed a change of date. Erick?
― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 15 December 2005 13:53 (eighteen years ago) link
Well, I missed the racism too. As did just about everyone else on this board who watched it, it seems.
― hobart paving (hobart paving), Thursday, 15 December 2005 14:12 (eighteen years ago) link
― hobart paving (hobart paving), Thursday, 15 December 2005 14:13 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 15 December 2005 14:24 (eighteen years ago) link
Late additions:Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter... and Spring (Kim ki-Duk, 2003)The Others (Alejandro Amenábar, 2001)The Good Girl (Miguel Arteta, 2002)
The Philipert movie was already nominated.
― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Thursday, 15 December 2005 14:28 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 15 December 2005 14:35 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 15 December 2005 14:46 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 15 December 2005 14:47 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 15 December 2005 14:49 (eighteen years ago) link
No, it was released in 2005. This poll only covers 2000-04.
― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 15 December 2005 14:52 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 15 December 2005 14:54 (eighteen years ago) link
btw. Just saying, cause I think the names under which they were released might have varied between the US and the UK.
― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 15 December 2005 14:58 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 15 December 2005 15:01 (eighteen years ago) link
I should've posted to the fuckin' nominations thread. I can't believe I'm the only one who gives a shit about Black Hawk Down or Brotherhood of the Wolf. What is the matter with people?
― TOMBOT, Thursday, 15 December 2005 15:27 (eighteen years ago) link
― TOMBOT, Thursday, 15 December 2005 15:29 (eighteen years ago) link
Ocean's 11, sweet Jesus. Come to some non-Hitler furrin films with me this weekend, hon!
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 15 December 2005 15:31 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 15 December 2005 15:34 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 15 December 2005 15:39 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 15 December 2005 16:07 (eighteen years ago) link
― gear (gear), Thursday, 15 December 2005 16:57 (eighteen years ago) link
― TOMBOT, Thursday, 15 December 2005 17:18 (eighteen years ago) link
Well, he did include two of them in the film, didn't he? Though maybe the problem is that he didn't treat them as representatives of a minority rather than characters in story, whose ethnicity has no relevance, only their personality, which is why people don't think of the as "ethnic". Which I think should be seen as a positive thing.
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 15 December 2005 17:36 (eighteen years ago) link
― zzzz, Thursday, 15 December 2005 17:37 (eighteen years ago) link
(x-post)
Race does matter in France, but should race matter in every French movie, even in such a non-realist flick as Amélie?
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 15 December 2005 17:41 (eighteen years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 15 December 2005 17:42 (eighteen years ago) link
― zzzzzz, Thursday, 15 December 2005 17:44 (eighteen years ago) link
― zzzzzz, Thursday, 15 December 2005 17:45 (eighteen years ago) link
― zzzzzzz, Thursday, 15 December 2005 17:46 (eighteen years ago) link
I also didn't nominate L'Esquive, one of my fave films that debuted in NYC this year, about Muslim kids in a Paris project (won a buncha Cesars):
http://www.slantmagazine.com/film/film_review.asp?ID=1506
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 15 December 2005 17:50 (eighteen years ago) link
Or maybe not if, like me, you think that's a gross exaggeration.
― hobart paving (hobart paving), Thursday, 15 December 2005 17:54 (eighteen years ago) link
― zzzzzz, Thursday, 15 December 2005 17:55 (eighteen years ago) link
What are the correct terms, then? I guess the two characters in Amélie could be described as North African, but in the film's world they're quite French and their ethnicity is never discussed. I put "ethnic" in quotes because it is often used as a shorthand for "non-white", even though white people are obviously "ethnic" as well.
Of course terms like "white", "black" and "race" are problematic too, since there's no essential grounds for their usage - they can't be avoided, however, as long as people are being classified according to them.
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 15 December 2005 17:56 (eighteen years ago) link
Good job in mixing my point with a totally different discussion to make it sound suspicious.
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 15 December 2005 17:58 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 15 December 2005 17:59 (eighteen years ago) link
― zzzzzzzz, Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― zzzzzzz, Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:01 (eighteen years ago) link
― 'Twan (miccio), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:01 (eighteen years ago) link
― zzzzzz, Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― [jailhouse tattoo] (nordicskilla), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― zzzzzz, Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:05 (eighteen years ago) link
Granted, there isn't an in-depth discourse on the nature of race and nationalist hegemony running through Amelie, but since its a slightly twee, nostalgic love story (of sorts) that's not too surprising. My main problem with what you're saying is that you could aim that claim at SO MANY films - most Hollywood love stories, for example. If your sole objection is lack of non-white characters, why select this film in particular?
Also, in your point above, you seem to be suggesting that all characters who are not white should have storylines that make a point of this. Surely this would be a step backwards?
― hobart paving (hobart paving), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:06 (eighteen years ago) link
handy guide to republican talking points - ethnicity has no relevance, only their personality, which is why people don't think of the as "ethnic". Which I think should be seen as a positive thing.
In this fucking film, not neceessarily in every film, or in general!!! This is getting tedious, I'm off.
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:07 (eighteen years ago) link
x-post to ethan
― 'Twan (miccio), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:07 (eighteen years ago) link