Think her pants are rubbish tbh, hate it when people have the label above their trousers.
― when i was your age i was thinking about how to kill people (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 13:52 (fourteen years ago) link
i get that child labour is bad, but the emphasis on branding as evil tends just to fold into people's general cultural conservatism. don't really give two shits about what my mobile "says about me."
― Dean Gaffney's December (history mayne), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 13:56 (fourteen years ago) link
@colin reads like he's trying to become the 'real life' carles of the hipster runoff 'brand'
― James Mitchell, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 13:58 (fourteen years ago) link
xpost
Yes, No Logo is closer to CAMRA than the SWP in spirit.
― when i was your age i was thinking about how to kill people (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:00 (fourteen years ago) link
who can we turn to now that all our truths are corporatised -_-
― Don't bring a gun to a snowball fight! (acoleuthic), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:02 (fourteen years ago) link
the brand of truthgivers with whom you've had the most positive previous experience
― stop grieving, it's only a chicken (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:05 (fourteen years ago) link
Climate Camp™ it is then
― Don't bring a gun to a snowball fight! (acoleuthic), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:07 (fourteen years ago) link
I'm going with Indus Kebabs™ personally.
― when i was your age i was thinking about how to kill people (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:08 (fourteen years ago) link
Inspired to rebrand by that article
― O™ (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:09 (fourteen years ago) link
i like it, but am worried about negative connotations due to work in the developing south american nations
― stop grieving, it's only a chicken (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:10 (fourteen years ago) link
don't really give two shits about what my mobile "says about me."
I'm absolutely enraged by mobile phone branding and advertising, as I've long said, and the plain fact is that it really does matter to quite a lot of people, at least in the pre-buy phase, which is the one that matters to the advertiser. The same applies to other products! It's not so much about the logo as about the technology, I will admit. To be accessorised is increasingly important, perhaps more so than ever.
looooooooooooool NV
― Don't bring a gun to a snowball fight! (acoleuthic), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:11 (fourteen years ago) link
To be accessorised is increasingly important, perhaps more so than ever.
circular argument
― stop grieving, it's only a chicken (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:12 (fourteen years ago) link
Well, I haven't read No Logo so tbh I don't know what I'm talking about. If I had read it, I'd be a fount of anti-corporate wisdom obv
― Don't bring a gun to a snowball fight! (acoleuthic), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:14 (fourteen years ago) link
You should probably read it, very prescient bits about the "internship" phenomenon - among many other things.
― kati roll deep (suzy), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:15 (fourteen years ago) link
I just realised last night that if I had free texts for life I could round up every vicious criminal and gunslinger in the west, rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shit-kickers and Methodists, and then go round to that superband twat's house and kick him to death.
― O™ (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:16 (fourteen years ago) link
No Logo is a good logo. think bill hicks had a good spiel about the anti-marketing dollar being good dollar.
― stop grieving, it's only a chicken (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:16 (fourteen years ago) link
that's an epic post, NV, but i'm completely lost by it tbh.
― stop grieving, it's only a chicken (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:17 (fourteen years ago) link
But when you do go to the phone store to get your free texts there is small print saying 'unlimited' is 500 texts a month.
― kati roll deep (suzy), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:18 (fourteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lj056ao6GE
― O™ (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:19 (fourteen years ago) link
NV, superband twat has already been given his dues here: The advertising of mobile telecommunications companies
I don't make any dollar from anti-marketing, nor do I plan to. This may make me slightly pious and smug but it doesn't make me a hypocrite.
― Don't bring a gun to a snowball fight! (acoleuthic), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:20 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah but which superband twat?
― stop grieving, it's only a chicken (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:21 (fourteen years ago) link
i'd rather be a rich hypocrite.
maybe everyone who joins the superband automatically becomes a twat on the slim to nonexistent chance they weren't one already -_-
― Don't bring a gun to a snowball fight! (acoleuthic), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:23 (fourteen years ago) link
So would you download No Logo to stop Rage Against the Machine being number 1 next Christmas?
― O™ (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:30 (fourteen years ago) link
I think there's a copy downstairs tbh
― Don't bring a gun to a snowball fight! (acoleuthic), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:33 (fourteen years ago) link
Looking forward to Lego No Logo coming out for the Wii next month.
― O™ (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:35 (fourteen years ago) link
No Logo My Ego
anyway I've found it. it looks long. the cover is one big logo lol
― Don't bring a gun to a snowball fight! (acoleuthic), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:39 (fourteen years ago) link
Domo Arigato, Lego No Logo
― O™ (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:41 (fourteen years ago) link
http://apecmx.com/deadduck/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/goldie.jpg
Go-Go No Logo
― O™ (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:43 (fourteen years ago) link
there's quite a lot of logos amirite
― Don't bring a gun to a snowball fight! (acoleuthic), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:44 (fourteen years ago) link
http://kodiakak.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/fugu.jpg
― O™ (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:44 (fourteen years ago) link
http://capitalistliontamer.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/goo_goo_dolls.jpg
― O™ (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:45 (fourteen years ago) link
that's the fish which is deadly poisonous unless one of like 5 cooks in the world who knows how to cook it cooks it? xpost
― Don't bring a gun to a snowball fight! (acoleuthic), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:45 (fourteen years ago) link
Yes, it's Fugu. No Logo.
― O™ (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:46 (fourteen years ago) link
The Japanese poet Yosa Buson (1716–1783) expressed some of this feeling in a famous senryū:
I cannot see her tonight. I have to give her up So I will eat fugu.
― Don't bring a gun to a snowball fight! (acoleuthic), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 14:50 (fourteen years ago) link
I cannot see her tonight.I have to give her upSo I read No Logo.
Does she make any insightful points that aren't raised in the dozens of other books on the same subject that came out before it?
― sarahel, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 16:43 (fourteen years ago) link
strengthening her brand iirc
don't think she's actually made any insightful points thus far though.
― stop grieving, it's only a chicken (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 16:48 (fourteen years ago) link
It just seemed like she took a lot of ideas from critical theory and more academic writers and presented them for a popular audience.
― sarahel, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 16:49 (fourteen years ago) link
http://shanghaiflow.canalblog.com/images/Pogo_Dance.jpg
^ No Pogo
― We should have called Suzie and Bobby (NickB), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 16:59 (fourteen years ago) link
are they doing some punk vn. of the argentine tango there?
― thurman merman (cozwn), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 17:00 (fourteen years ago) link
no, i mean, i don't care about my mobile OR about if other people do. i don't know if they do or not. adverts are annoying, bfd, there are bigger things to worry about.
― sarahel, Tuesday, December 22, 2009 4:49 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark
i think this is another way of saying academics can't write.
― Dean Gaffney's December (history mayne), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 17:18 (fourteen years ago) link
O™ (Noodle Vague)
^^^this is amazing
― just a moonful of sugar (Abbott), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 18:14 (fourteen years ago) link
^yes this is awes, NV hits jackpot!
LOL Henry I was going to point out that nonfiction authors are often tasked with the translation of the theoretical into the practical.
― days of wine and neuroses (suzy), Tuesday, 22 December 2009 18:21 (fourteen years ago) link
agree, that was generally the point of her writing the book.
― jed_, Wednesday, 23 December 2009 00:58 (fourteen years ago) link
That and really hating gassy keg beer.
― O™ (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 13:02 (fourteen years ago) link
don't really give two shits about what my mobile "says about me."― Dean Gaffney's December (history mayne), Tuesday, December 22, 2009 1:56 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
― Dean Gaffney's December (history mayne), Tuesday, December 22, 2009 1:56 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
Note the term "technical solution": rational problems have technical solutions. (Again, a blatantly erroneous claim: confronting ecological problems requires making choices and decisions -- about what to produce, what to consume, on what energy to rely -- which ultimately concern the very way of life of a people; as such, they are not only not technical, but are eminently political in the most radical sense of involving fundamental social choices.) No wonder, then, that capitalism itself is presented in technical terms, not even as a science but simply as something that works: it needs no ideological justification, because its success is itself sufficient justification. In this regard, capitalism is "the opposite of socialism, which has a manual": "Capitalism is a system which has no philosophical pretensions, which is not in search of happiness. The only thing it says is: 'Well, this functions.' And if people want to live better, it is preferable to use this mechanism, because it functions. The only criterion is efficiency."This anti-ideological description is, of course, patently false: the very notion of capitalism as a neutral social mechanism is ideology (even utopian ideology) at its purest. [...] If there was ever a system which enchanted its subjects with dreams (of freedom, of how your success depends on yourself, of the run of luck which is just around the corner, of unconstrained pleasures...), then it is capitalism. The true problem lies elsewhere: namely, how to keep people's faith in capitalism alive when the inexorable reality of a crisis has brutally crushed such dreams? Here enters the need for a "mature" realistic pragmatism: one should heroically resist dreams of perfection and happiness and accept bitter capitalist reality as the best (or the least bad) of all possible worlds.
This anti-ideological description is, of course, patently false: the very notion of capitalism as a neutral social mechanism is ideology (even utopian ideology) at its purest. [...] If there was ever a system which enchanted its subjects with dreams (of freedom, of how your success depends on yourself, of the run of luck which is just around the corner, of unconstrained pleasures...), then it is capitalism. The true problem lies elsewhere: namely, how to keep people's faith in capitalism alive when the inexorable reality of a crisis has brutally crushed such dreams? Here enters the need for a "mature" realistic pragmatism: one should heroically resist dreams of perfection and happiness and accept bitter capitalist reality as the best (or the least bad) of all possible worlds.
― I got gin but I'm not a ginger (bernard snowy), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 13:56 (fourteen years ago) link
http://images.uulyrics.com/cover/l/lo-fidelity-allstars/album-how-to-operate-with-a-blown-mind.jpg
― O™ (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 14:07 (fourteen years ago) link
man I ain't tryin' to blow any minds here; just that, when the revolution comes, I wanna put as few people up against the wall as possible
― I got gin but I'm not a ginger (bernard snowy), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 14:34 (fourteen years ago) link
I've got a 6th hand mobile that my wife gave me because I work on 3 or 4 different sites and my boss needs to get hold of me sometimes btw
― O™ (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 14:46 (fourteen years ago) link
what if we could eat questions marks
― 鬼の手 (Edward III), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 18:57 (fourteen years ago) link
please tell me precisely what is non-functional about selling your labor-power― deej--nuts, butthurt, and yelly (gbx), Wednesday, December 23, 2009 5:50 PM (43 minutes ago) Bookmark
― deej--nuts, butthurt, and yelly (gbx), Wednesday, December 23, 2009 5:50 PM (43 minutes ago) Bookmark
and of course, individuals can also arrive at very distorted perspectives on what their own 'needs' are. daycare may be a necessity for a single mother whose only source of income is paid labor, but one can easily imagine a society in which this wouldn't be the case. similarly, I know a lot of people who wish that they could cook more, because it's cheaper/healthier/tastier, but they just don't have the time... because they're always busy working, in order to make money, which is then spent on expensive prepared/packaged foods. or look at the domestic 'chores' (for some reason denied the status of legitimate employment) traditionally assigned to housewives: from the perspective of the husband, things like cooking, cleaning, and washing clothes appear as 'needs', when their status is really more like 'preconditions for the continuation of gainful employment'.
― I got gin but I'm not a ginger (bernard snowy), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 18:59 (fourteen years ago) link
what condiment would you put on your question marks
it would tell me a lot about you
― 鬼の手 (Edward III), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 19:00 (fourteen years ago) link
what if you didn't have time to prepare your own question marks, so busy working for the man that you order take out
― 鬼の手 (Edward III), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 19:02 (fourteen years ago) link
I hope you remember the ones living off government question marks
― 鬼の手 (Edward III), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 19:03 (fourteen years ago) link
maybe they're the really free ones
have you ever tried exclamation points
"work or starve" is kind of an easy decision from the individual's perspective, but the choice to work ends up expressing more than simply a desire not to starve; intentionally or not, it lends legitimacy to the ruling order.
Work or starve is pretty much a human imperative. I mean it's work, starve, or make others do work for you, whether by force or by some kind of social contract. You could quibble with the AMOUNT of work required by capitalism and whether it's really way beyond what's necessary and a means for the ruling class to skim, but work itself can't be quibbled with.
― Bay-L.A. Bar Talk (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 19:04 (fourteen years ago) link
Unless you're using "work" as a shorthand for selling your labor to someone else. In which case I'd probably bring up some arguments about efficiency.
But I'd also add that capitalism does give you a pretty wide range of options in terms of selling your labor - I mean you can work 20 hours a week in a Starbucks and then spend the rest of your time growing food, knitting clothes and building furniture if you really want.
― Bay-L.A. Bar Talk (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 19:08 (fourteen years ago) link
I mean underneath it all I know how I'm complicit in capitalism by my default "pragmatic" attitude, but the thing is when you're not a chaired academic with a platform it's pretty hard to oppose capitalism in a non-futile way, especially when you're being presented with the choice of an imperfect system that feeds you versus a big question mark.― Bay-L.A. Bar Talk (Hurting 2), Wednesday, December 23, 2009 6:50 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark
― Bay-L.A. Bar Talk (Hurting 2), Wednesday, December 23, 2009 6:50 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark
just one more thing to add, and then I gotta run: I don't think of 'ideology criticism' (or whatever you wanna call it) as a way to separate myself from and denounce the unenlightened, false-consciousness-having herds; my motivation is more along the lines of "god DAMN it, why is it so hard to change this system when everyone knows that it's constantly fucking people over, again and again, in the same predictable ways?" but as long as people acknowledge that we have now is a seriously flawed system, and they aren't actively stanning for the World Bank or something, I'm fine with them doing whatever.
― I got gin but I'm not a ginger (bernard snowy), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 19:23 (fourteen years ago) link
ut the thing is when you're not a chaired academic with a platform it's pretty hard to oppose capitalism in a non-futile way
I'd say most chaired academics with platforms are deluding themselves that they're opposing capitalism in any way whatsoever
― larry craig memorial gloryhole (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 19:28 (fourteen years ago) link
especially if they have blackberries or iPhones, right?
― sarahel, Wednesday, 23 December 2009 19:29 (fourteen years ago) link
haha
― larry craig memorial gloryhole (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 19:30 (fourteen years ago) link
why is it so hard to change this system when everyone knows that it's constantly fucking people over, again and again, in the same predictable ways?
http://images2.fanpop.com/images/quiz/266000/266151_1248794026596_350_349.jpg
― james cameron gargameled my boner for life (Pancakes Hackman), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 19:32 (fourteen years ago) link
I just, in general, find the idea that you can stand OUTSIDE a system and criticize it ridiculous. you will always be inside the system. man is a social animal and is bound by social constructs. even the most ascetic drop-out unabomber type, living in the woods wearing handmade clothes and burning his shit for fuel or whatever, is still living in relation to some external system - the thoughts he has are ordered by a language, his actions are defined by their opposition to the existing system, etc. there is no outside. we're all in it.
― larry craig memorial gloryhole (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 19:33 (fourteen years ago) link
criticizing a system you are inside of often makes for a more informed, nuanced critique.
― sarahel, Wednesday, 23 December 2009 19:36 (fourteen years ago) link
have you ever read an sb thread
― 鬼の手 (Edward III), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 19:51 (fourteen years ago) link
Read an sb thread? I've gotten multiple sb threads locked by mods as a result of my posts to them!
― sarahel, Wednesday, 23 December 2009 19:57 (fourteen years ago) link
I just, in general, find the idea that you can stand OUTSIDE a system and criticize it ridiculous. you will always be inside the system.
frankly I don't even know what this means
like how ridiculous was black folks' criticism of the racist power structure in the american south
or are you just calling the unabomber on his shit
― 鬼の手 (Edward III), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 20:00 (fourteen years ago) link
but regardless of questions about Althusser's philosophical persuasion (given that his most famous essay about ideology includes a detailed discussion of his thesis that "Ideology has a material existence", I'm going with "materialist"), that seems to be the view most people here are working with
yeah, maybe read some of the lit on althusser? it's fairly well established (by marxists!) that his basic outlook was idealist. been saying this on ilx for years so excuse lack of patience, but basically althusser was so comprehensively "done" in the 1970s that it is ludicrous to me that people continue to talk about him.
I think Zizek's original quote, taken in full, says exactly what it says: Weimar Germany was a nation with a lot of problems, and Hitler's solution (unifying the population around the exclusion and extermination of an ethnic minority) was an easy way to make people feel better without changing anything. whether or not you think it's legitimate to define the term "violence" broadly enough that it encompasses both genocide and social change is irrelevant; it's pretty clear that that Zizek does think it's legitimate, and the only way to arrive at the "ZOMG HE SAID HITERL SHOULD BE MORE VIOLENT!!1!" criticism is to ignore the author's intent (or to have it obscured for you by a charlatan like Adam Kirsch).
"without changing anything"? yeah, you're going with that? ok.
i think the violence he meant was probably more than "social change", wasn't it? more like violent leninist revolution? under third period comintern that would have been just lovely. probably not as bad as nazism, but "social change" -- no. i think he means rather more. why is kirsch a "charlatan"? more than zizek, the guy who extols "emancipatory violence" from various well-protected lectures halls to the children of the rich west.
"the last line about the "precise sense" of violence is just fatuous rubbish. is that what you're really offering as an argument?"
the idea that a philosopher will sometimes use a word in ways that are different from its everyday use? yes, that would be my argument. this is why e.g. the Kantian "transcendental subject" is not "maths"
well, he said "precise" didn't he? how would you "precisely" define violence to include the most-famous advocate of non-violence? (his world is altogether lacking in precision. history is messy. even the collapse of the raj.)
― Dean Gaffney's December (history mayne), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 20:12 (fourteen years ago) link
^^^this. but not just the unabomber basically all ivory tower academicians
― larry craig memorial gloryhole (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 20:22 (fourteen years ago) link
lol at blanket condemnation of betrand rusell, jacques derrida, unabomber
― 鬼の手 (Edward III), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 20:35 (fourteen years ago) link
?
― super sexy psycho fantasy world (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 20:41 (fourteen years ago) link
stop it you are making me hungry
― 鬼の手 (Edward III), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 20:43 (fourteen years ago) link
nah I like Derrida, he's a riot
― larry craig memorial gloryhole (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 20:54 (fourteen years ago) link
xp question mark con carne?
― sarahel, Wednesday, 23 December 2009 21:02 (fourteen years ago) link
Russell seems like a stand-up guy too.
― O™ (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 21:08 (fourteen years ago) link
Dropping my slave-name as a challenge to global capitalism btw
― NO™ (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 23 December 2009 21:09 (fourteen years ago) link
i thought this thread would be revived for naomi klein's in-praise-of-sex-and-the-city article in G2 this week
― thomp, Wednesday, 23 December 2009 21:40 (fourteen years ago) link
wasn't that naomi wolf? (a little unexpected as well but ok)
― Maria, Wednesday, 23 December 2009 22:18 (fourteen years ago) link
haha oops! i am actually more disappointed in naomi wolf than i was when i was skimming it and thought it was naomi klein for some reason
― thomp, Thursday, 24 December 2009 00:23 (fourteen years ago) link
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2610/1uyunibig6st.jpg
― =皿= (dyao), Thursday, 24 December 2009 04:25 (fourteen years ago) link
world looks pretty good from up here tbh
klein and climate reparations.
― nostragaaaawddamnus (Hunt3r), Thursday, 24 December 2009 05:47 (fourteen years ago) link