ILX Parenting 5: I'm a big kid now

I really shouldn't have to explained all of the meanings of staggered but
Verb
• [ intrans. ] walk or move unsteadily, as if about to fall : he staggered to his feet, swaying a little.
• [with adverbial of direction ] figurative continue in existence or operation uncertainly or precariously : the council staggered from one crisis to the next.
• archaic waver in purpose; hesitate.
• archaic [ trans. ] (of a blow) cause (someone) to walk or move unsteadily, as if about to fall
[ trans. ] arrange (events, payments, hours, etc.) so that they do not occur at the same time; spread over a period of time : meetings are staggered throughout the day.
• arrange (objects or parts of an object) in a zigzag order or so that they are not in line : stagger the screws at each joint.

Noun
1 an unsteady walk or movement : she walked with a stagger.
2 an arrangement of things in a zigzag order or so that they are not in line.

Wow, some words have multiple meanings. makes u think.

I totally meant a "moving unsteadily schedule"

Thanks way to set me straight, my mistake, i thought this was a very nice place to talk about how much we love of daughter with other parents and share different ideas of parenting and the joys of it all. You were unfairly rude to Tera and now are just being snide for really no reason.

I'm still not sure what your complaint about the word is. It's obvious the meaning that was being referred to and it's an entirely apt description.

Apologize for calling anyone (indirectly) a crazy btw. That was uncalled for (even Jenny McCarthy--who admittedly I was thinking about doesn't deserve that.)

I have not read the Dr Sears book regarding immunization. I meant to but had no time.

This is the schedule:
2 months: DTaP, Rotavirus
3 months*: Pc, HIB
4 months: DTaP, Rotavirus
5 months*: Pc, HIB
6 months: DTaP, Rotavirus
7 months*: Pc, HIB
9 months: Polio (IPV)
12 months: Mumps, Polio (IPV) (See 3rd UPDATE)
15 months: Pc, HIB
18 months: DTaP, Chickenpox
2 years: Rubella, Polio (IPV) (See 3rd UPDATE)
2 1/2 years*: Hep B, Hep A (start Hep B at birth if any close relatives or caregivers have Hep B)
3 years: Hep B, Measles (See 3rd UPDATE)
3 1/2 years*: Hep B, Hep A
4 years: DTaP, Polio (IPV)
5 years: MMR
6 years: Chickenpox
12 years: Tdap, HPV
12 years, 2 months*: HPV
13 years: HPV, Meningococcal (once Meningococcal vaccine is approved for age 2, Dr. Sears will move it there and delay Hep B by 6 months)

They are split up and spaced out to lessen adverse reactions and if there is one you have a better idea of which vaccine caused it.

B-b-but that is the Sears schedule! The same schedule that doesn't result in HepB vac until 2.5 and the first measles shots until 3?!?

They are split up and spaced out to lessen adverse reactions and if there is one you have a better idea of which vaccine caused it.

False. Humans--especially baby humans--are exposed lots of antigens every day and there is no way to pinpoint what may be causing a reaction. So vaccine antigens get the blame.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/6mishome.htm#Givingachildmultiple

It is called the alternative schedule among the people I know and the one my pediatrician office is familiar with (the nurse called it the alternative schedule) and the one the mid-wife provided when we asked about vaccination schedules. August got her first HepB vaccination at birth.

Kate, agree to disagree with you. All I can tell you is my gut instinct has been correct in the past and to ignore it, when I have, has resulted in disasters large and small. Not about to explain my gut instinct to you or engage in a discussion of it :)

thank you for that.

I don't really want to get into the debate about vaccines as I am pro-vaccine, yet I am not completely trusting of the CDC and I do not view them as any sort of guideline on how to raise my daughter. I'm surprised anyone would. It would be like trusting the FDA to make all of your food choices.

this >> jenny mccarthy wants your kid to get measles: autism, vaccines, and stupid idiots

Poliopolice to thread

i don't think it's crazy to distrust (or at least have some healthy skepticism) of medical establishment + even particular doctors, tho i am also pro-vaccine. but lots of doctors say stupid things! and lots of things that medical associations have said were totally okay have turned out to be totally not. aka: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyridoxine/doxylamine -- as long as the obvious stuff, like ultimately getting the vaccines to protect our species from idk polio is handled, i'm not terribly offended. our doctor told us in month-one that we should supplement nursing w/ bottle feeding formula to help our baby get fat. we smiled but we were flat out no way and i don't think we should be judged for deciding that the doctor isn't the doyen of all health decisions for our child

I think I may have mentioned upthread that our pediatrician's office was actually quite pushy about sleep training and strongly favored doing full-blown, lock the door and come back in 12 hours cry-it-out at two months old. The practice has a bunch of locations around the city and the founder wrote a parenting book and is styling himself as some kind of hip parenting guru for the well-off (we didn't know this when we joined, it was just one of very few options in Williamsburg).

As I've had time to reflect on this, I think this is not only wrong but a kind of abuse of the trust that comes with being a doctor, but that's because it goes beyond a subject of medical authority. It turns out this guy actually cites no particular research on his sleep training theories, it's just his opinion combined with anecdotes. And yet he has all of his locations aggressively push this philosophy, and it grosses me out. When we move I'm pretty sure we'll be switching practices.

I don't trust the CDC (or for that matter my pediatrician) to raise my child, but yeah I kinda do trust them (and basically the entire medical and scientific community which is pretty much in complete agreement on this) to help keep my child and a whole mess of other children from getting sick. And I certainly trust them more than I trust guys like Dr Sears who are entirely concerned with cashing in on parental anxieties.

yeah exactly. I mean that was kind of my point. I trust doctors on medical issues. I don't necessarily trust them on parenting.

In fact I think it's wrong of doctors to be too adamant about any parenting advice that goes beyond medical advice, because vulnerable people assume they know what they're talking about.

B-b-but that is the Sears schedule! The same schedule that doesn't result in HepB vac until 2.5...
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF),

HepB isn't routinely vaccinated against in the UK at all, only if the mother is infected or there's a great risk of the baby being exposed. Same with BCG, and chickenpox and flu vaccinations are only given if the children have certain medical conditions or a weakened immune system.

So who is right and who is wrong between UK and US? Maybe there is no right or wrong answer. Some parents chose to trust the health system implicitly others chose to do their research before making their minds up. The likelihood of anyone's decision making an impact on your own life is teeny tiny, so why not just agree that people can have different opinions?

FWIW I looked into it and decided to go with the UK vaccine schedule but I can understand why other people don't make that decision and that's their decision to make.

Everyone's entitled to make their own parenting decisions, I had hoped the ILPM wasn't a place where parents would get abused for having made a different choice. Seems not.

What research? What choice? You're making it seem as though this some of measured sane debate where both sides have good evidence and well whichever way a parent goes it's all good. One side has spent the last 20 years outright making up nonsense and sticking their fingers in their ears and going LA LA LA when mountains of evidence to the contrary is pointed out. This isn't just some personal decision either as it has actual impact on the health of other people (as well as making the overall cost of healthcare more expensive to boot.)

AS I said, the evidence for not following the vaccination schedule didn't stack up for me, that's not what I'm arguing.

Are you wanting Tera to change her mind about her vaccination schedule? Then you're going about it the wrong way. Find articles, evidence, research to back the schedule, fine. But if you're wanting to change her mind then just yelling 'your wrong! Your crazy!' isn't the way to go about it.

Actually I don't really want *tera to change her mind (based on anything I posted)... that's too much responsibility for one message board poster, frankly.

That said there are a mess of articles out there about how the Dr Sears' schedule (and vaccine book) is a dangerous bunch of nonsense written by someone who has no understanding of immunology. Read at your leisure.

Dr. Sears bothers me on a lot of topics -- so many of his little anecdotes have the subtext "unless you do things the way I say you are really going to screw up your child."

I really do think in the next few years, when doctors begin to realize they can make money by having parents come in every month for vaccines they could start pushing that. That just seems to be the way things work...it seems to be "crazies" with tons of money to throw at seemingly solid and immoveable institutions that change things. However, these "crazies" would have to throw more money at the CDC than big pharmaceutical companies are throwing. I don't have tons of money only enough to pay out of pocket on the months the insurance won't.
The traditional vaccination schedule is simple and easy to follow. The alternative one is more to keep track of and requires a parents to really pay attention. I can see some parents maybe unable to do this especially if they have more than one child.

Last night I sent out an email to my FB friends who are mothers and found out I have two that went the traditional vaccination route. One with a 7 month old because she did not know there was an alternate schedule but is now that I brought it up is looking into it and the other with a one year old says she is scared to death of childhood diseases and so will always follow the traditional schedule and is fully aware of the alternative schedule.

When I read what can happen when you do not vaccinate, that is just too scary for me to consider. When I read what happens when you vaccinate like you should, that scares me as well. I do not feel I know enough at this point or have the courage even if I did to be selective about the vaccinations. So using the alternative schedule ended up being a compromise I did not plan on. As I said this was a last minute decision and one I am starting to feel more and more comfortable with.

That said there are a mess of articles out there about how the Dr Sears' schedule (and vaccine book) is a dangerous bunch of nonsense written by someone who has no understanding of immunology. Read at your leisure.

― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Thursday, June 28, 2012 8:28 AM (11 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

links plz

cuz from where i'm sitting the "dr sears schedule" seems like cynical, opportunistic, and clinically harmless hokum

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/123/1/e164.full

Knock yrself out.

come on over to the vaccine thread, and thanking you for that link

It is repeated that Dr Offit said children an safely take 100,000 vaccines. I would like to know if he really made this statement, where and when? That sounds crazy to me. I don't know how this could be proven, not something I would want to be proven on some poor child. This is why I wonder if he really said this.

http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2011/09/did-paul-offit-md-publish-a-study-proving-the-100000-vaccines-at-once-claim.html

Google is your friend.

http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/debunking-myths-dr-paul-offit/

And a little more about Paul Offit too from some other blog (since obv searching his name results in all sorts of insanity--sorry this stuff really is insanity--this is just to give another perspective.)

So I'm kind of wondering, without getting too specific into my situation, how do you handle issues of (1) how often is reasonable for your or your spouses' parents to see the baby and (2) what if one set of grandparents lives much closer than the other and it leads to disparate time? Do you have some obligation to go more out of your way to make time for the other set? We're having trouble juggling this right now and it's getting ugly.

Thanks! Must have used the wrong search words...

Hurting: Can the set that lives further away fly or drive to visit?

Yes, from time to time. But they're somewhat busy, and we're somewhat busy, and now there are problems around it. We were supposed to visit, we had to cancel last minute, it's ugly.

"Do you have some obligation to go more out of your way to make time for the other set?"

No.

Definitely no imho. It's the grandparents' jobs to make time for you, not vice-versa. If they wanna see the grandkid, they should get off their asses and visit u.

^^ otm.

Do you have some obligation to go more out of your way to make time for the other set? NO.

Our kids have three sets of grandparents:

My dad and step-mom live about 20 minutes away.

My mom and step-dad live 70 miles away up in B.F.E.

Sunny's mother lives in Sydney, NSW.

The funny part is, guess who whines the most about not seeing the kids? The set that lives here in the same metro with us and averages a visit every two weeks.

Everybody saying "NO" otm.

I hate going into this because in a way, my kids are fortunate to have five - count 'em, FIVE - living grandparents.

But after spending a dual childhood with a mommy family and a daddy family, and then 15 years or so of not having to worry about who's in the same room as whom, one of the biggest complaints I have these days is that I'm back to staggering visitations.

Swear one year my dad tried to push a birthday party for Beeps to begin at 2 pm for one set and have a 4 pm showing for the other set. I said, SEE YA AT THREE.

staggering visitations

how dare u

Yeah, we got ourselves into a situation. Cancelled our trip last minute. Then they asked if they could visit next weekend and we said no because (1) we have to find an apartment because we are being priced out of ours and (2) we had other prior plans. Now we're bad guys. Turns out that's the only weekend for a while. They last came a month ago, which doesn't seem that long I guess but when a baby is small, you know. I'm sure behind this in part is jealousy of the other grandparents, but the thing is they help us out a fuckload, come when needed, etc. It's not like I want to see my in-laws all the time, but they're so available to us and it's great.

When one of our local grandfolks moans a little too much, I mention sunny's mom who maybe sees them biennially.

staggering visitations

how dare u

― Mordy, Friday, June 29, 2012 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Dying at this (sorry JS).

dumb question probably: but can you guys skype or send them photos or something to tide them over until they *can* see grandbabby again?

obv we do that

well then tell them to blow it out their ear :D