Miguel Cabrera Needs His Own Thread

Because the other guy who needed his own thread got one, and this guy’s been doing it for a long time now.

His kung fu is very strong.

Here's where Cabrera stands in relation to what are basically the best postwar hitters at basically the same stage in their careers. I tried to pick the guys who had all three slash-stats covered, so no Schmidt, Henderson, Brett, etc. (the '70s/80s are badly underrepresented). I wasn't ambitious enough to start looking into partial seasons and make the PA exactly the same, so I included the last season where each guy was closest to Cabrera's 6829 PA; going a little over, like Robinson and A-Rod, was okay.

               PA        HR       BA        SLG       OBP
Cabrera       6839      345      .321      .567      .398
DiMaggio      6585      317      .331      .589      .401
Musial        6754      227      .346      .579      .431
Mantle        6697      374      .308      .579      .425
Mays          6666      368      .315      .588      .390
Aaron         6582      342      .320      .572      .375
Robinson      7088      373      .304      .562      .391
Bonds         6713      334      .288      .548      .404
Griffey       6688      398      .299      .569      .380
Thomas        6799      344      .321      .579      .440
Ramirez       6575      390      .316      .599      .411
Rodriguez     7100      429      .307      .577      .385
Pujols        6782      408      .331      .624      .426

The window here encompasses some guys who were coming off their most celebrated seasons--Robinson's 1966, Mantle's '61 ('56/57 better, I know)—and decline set in for most of them, though not all. A-Rod's 2007 is not included, and Bonds' window closes with 199. He had a couple of good seasons after that.

Most HR: A-Rod (429)
Highest BA: Musial (.346)
Highest SLG: Pujols (.624)
Highest OBA: Thomas (.440)

Should read: "Bonds' window closes with 1996." On a brighter note, I actually formatted a table correctly.

you do realize those numbers aren't park- or era-adjusted, clem? ;)

Oh, I know--just wanted to throw something together quickly. (Baseball Reference has that tool where you can easily isolate any part of a player's career.) I was going to say that, unadjusted, the best comps would seem to be DiMaggio, Aaron, and Robinson. The latter two, of course, put up half their numbers in the pitching-dominated '60s.

Not that anybody asked, but: I tend to group Williams in my mind with Ruth, Foxx, Gehrig, and Hornsby, so I left him out. Chronologically, he should be included. Williams, through 1954:

PA -- 7084
HR -- 366
BA -- .348
SLG -- .638
OBP -- .486

He takes all three slash categories.

yeah he was really mfing good

Realized I can let someone else do all the adjusting...Same players, same point in their careers, ranked by oWAR:

1. Williams: 93.2
2. Mantle: 83.0
3. Musial: 78.0
4. Rodriguez: 77.0
5. Mays: 75.6
6. Pujols: 69.6
7. Robinson: 68.0
8. Aaron: 67.3
9. DiMaggio: 65.7
10. Thomas: 65.1
11. Bonds: 64.4
12. Griffey: 63.6
13. Cabrera: 59.2
14. Ramirez: 56.1

I just wanted to compare a bunch of guys as pure hitters, so now, with baserunning and positional adjustment included, we're a little beyond what I intended (Rickey Henderson had accumulated 67.4 oWAR through his first 7198 PA). That aside, Williams is off on his own, there's a second tier of Mantle, Musial, A-Rod, and Mays, and then a third tier in the 60s. By the end of the year, Cabrera should reach the very bottom of the third tier.

I don't understand including Dimaggio but excluding Williams, but otherwise what I'm getting from this is that Cabrera is a really good hitter.

I tried to explain the omission of Williams above, then realized he belonged anyway. After careful study, I've come to the same conclusion: he's a really good hitter.

Cabrera during his 15-game hitting streak: 7 homers, 13 RBI, .458/.522/.898.

i'm gonna see if i can do something similar, only using wRC+ and/or OPS+ instead

Two guys who'd rank no matter how you do it would be Henderson and Schmidt. Then there are another dozen I left out who might fall in there somewhere: Brett, Edgar Martinez, Piazza, Walker, etc. I don't know about you, ZS, but when I undertake things like this, I either do it quickly and intuitively and live with omissions, or I end up obsessing and take forever.

I don't know about you, ZS, but when I undertake things like this, I either do it quickly and intuitively and live with omissions, or I end up obsessing and take forever.

my most common outcome seems to be to start, get stuck on a basic problem, and then quit!

it's easy enough to come up with a list of top wRC+ and set the minimum PAs to 6000, but i'm not sure how to easily generate that list for players at a certain point in their career (say, ~6800 PAs like Cabrera's currently at). it would be pretty easy to manually look it up, player by player, but then you run into the question of which players to include. you can look at the total career numbers to get an idea, of course. but i'm sure there are plenty of players who had outstanding wRC+ stats at 6800 PAs, and then ended their career on 4000 mediocre PAs which dragged their overall career wRC+ down.

I might be wrong, but my guess is that career leaders would be a fairly reliable guide as to who had the best numbers--whatever sabermetric tool you use--after 7000 PA. I don't think there are many guys at this level who took a drastic tumble during the final third of their careers. Albert Belle retired just as his decline phase was starting, so he doesn't count; with someone like Juan Gonzalez, his numbers weren't good enough during his prime to qualify anyway once adjusted. I'm having a hard time thinking of anybody who ranked with Mays and DiMaggio and the rest through 7000 PA, but then began a prolonged slide. Actually, Griffey's one. His OPS+ through 1999 is 149, which would be tied for 36th on the career list, but by the time he finishes he's at 136 and 99th place. Frank Thomas, on the other hand, had such a head start that even after finishing with eight up-and-down seasons, he still ends up tied with Mays and Dick Allen for 19th on the Career OPS+ list.

I think for Thomas it helped that his only "bad" seasons were his injury plagued ones. He never had a full season that wasn't at least good offensively.

Just read that he has 90 RBIs and had to check to make sure it wasn't a typo.

Here are the most ever before the break (Hamilton ended up with 95 that year), unless someone else made the list the past four seasons:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=3485814

Also from the Department of Antiquated Stats, he's got a good chance to become the ninth guy to win three batting titles in a row: Gwynn, Boggs, Carew, Musial, Hornsby, Cobb, Wagner, Lajoie. (Trusting someone else's research there.) He'd be the first to hit 30+ HR each year, though.

Yes, I know: the great Preston Wilson...

Research Notes
7th straight season with 30+ HR for Miguel Cabrera
Miguel Cabrera reached 30 HR in the Tigers' 91st game of the season. The only Tigers player to get there faster was Hank Greenberg, who hit his 30th in their 87th game of 1938.
With his 30th HR of the season today, Miguel Cabrera is the first player in MLB history with 30 home runs AND 90 RBI before the All-Star break.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BO-earSCYAAmGSo.png

https://twitter.com/msimonespn/status/355677076713529344

His red zone kind of looks like a brony bent over a table with its tail on the air, begging for forgiveness. Or you know, doing whatever it it is that bronies do.

Hope he sits out the all-star game for his back's sake.

Hope he sits out the all-star game so the Orioles can have the entire starting infield not named Cano

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2922287/cabreratroll.gif

Is he headed for the DL? I couldn't really tell from what I read.

HR first AB after four or five games off.

First swing!

how and where would one ideally pitch to miguel cabrera

besides four wide ones

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3VpcwypYxk

I saw highlights of his tête-à-tête with Salazar last night--very entertaining. First three times up, Salazar struck him out, challenging him every time. In the second or third AB, there was a pitch where Cabrera (good-naturedly) signaled out to the mound that he just missed the last pitch by a bit, and maybe he'd like to come in with another one in the same spot. Salazar does, strikes him out. Fourth time up, Salazar still pitching, Cabrera knocks him out with a 420-ft. HR.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/3029487/miggy-lol.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0kVyT9S-dM
xp

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/learning-lessons-with-danny-salazar-and-miguel-cabrera/

Forgot about Salazar pointing up after contact.

Yeah, there it goes.

That's a great piece. I wish I could find video of Cabrera joking around about the pitch he just missed--did you see that, Andy?

The only thing I recall from one of the at-bats is Cabrera doing his nod of respect (as if to say, "Hey, all right -- you are providing me with a challenge") between a couple pitches.

Two HRs off Rivera in the same series.

This post is meant for me and me alone. Please, move along.

I was trying to estimate his chance of another Triple Crown, and I figure it's 5% at best. If you took Chris Davis out of the equation, I'd say he'd be up around 80 or 90% at this point.

He's probably close to locking up the batting title--put him at a conservative 85% there. RBI, 45% (and 45% for Davis, and 10% for the rest of the league). But home runs, he'd have to make up six in the remaining games. Even if Davis were to settle into a 30-HR pace the rest of the way--which doesn't seem that unreasonable--he'd still hit 9 or 10, putting him around 50. Cabrera needs 14 more for 50, which would mean continuing his current pace. The chances of both those things happening, or something close in either direction? I don't know--10-15%? 85% x 45% x 15% = 6%. But Cabrera won't play every game, and he walks a lot, and Davis may stay hot, so knock that down even more.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9568471/miguel-cabrera-truly-magical-hitter

stark on where miggy ranks with the greatest RH hitters ever

He should have 3000 hits in 5-6 years, which is pretty remarkable.

He's got a decent shot at a couple of very short lists:

2000 RBI: Aaron, Ruth, Anson (and A-Rod, if he can get another 50)
6000 Total Bases: Aaron, Musial, Mays (A-Rod still needs close to 600)

The RBI mark is easier--seven more seasons of typical performance (110 a year). TB, he'd need probably need eight more--he'll cross 3,500 this year. He turns 31 next April. But at the same point, Pujols was at 1,230 RBI and 3,580 TB--basically the same. Things change.

also the rbis are dependent on the team around him

what do we know about miggy, except that he likes a drink? does he watch a ton of video? does he spend half his waking life in the cage? is he a savant?

Saved his teammates in combat in China; loves to play solitaire.

Tigers' analyst just pointed out that his front leg and foot moved and/or landed differently on recent HRs off Rivera, Danks.

also the rbis are dependent on the team around him

Less so than most players, I think. I checked his ten 100-RBI seasons, and four of the teams were below the league average in runs, six were above. (All but one Marlins team below, all but one Tigers team above; many of them on either side were fairly close to the league average.) Provided he's healthy, he doesn't strike me as someone who's only going to knock in 80 because the players in front of him aren't anything special.

What I'm saying is that his RBI consistency doesn't seem especially a function of anything other than him being his normal self when hitting with baserunners:

Career: .321/.399/.570
Runners on: .332/.411/.577
RISP: .337/.433/.570

Now, I don't know whether he's batted more often than average with baserunners on over the course of his career--with Florida, probably not, with the Tigers, quite probably yes.

One thing that surprises me looking at his splits is how much better he is against finesse pitchers than power pitchers:

Power (1,300+ AB): .277/.394/.495
Finesse (2,500+ AB): .350/.421/.615

That's a sizable gap. I thought great power hitters were almost always great fastball hitters.

where are you getting the power/finesse splits from?

It's all on Baseball Reference, in the Career Batting Splits section:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=cabremi01&year=Career&t=b

They have three categories: power, average power/finesse, finesse. There's got to be some subjectivity at work there in the grey area.

Not to press the point, but I was thinking about who Cabrera's been hitting behind this year: Austin Jackson/Andy Dirks and Torii Hunter. Jackson and Dirks have been mediocre at best in the lead-off spot: Jackson's .264/.332/.411 (not good at getting on base, decent power), Dirks is .278/.300/.371. Hitting #2, Hunter is .305/.340/.463--good power, nothing special in getting on. Cabrera's knocking in a run a game because of Cabrera: .391/.506/.807 with runners on (wow), .437/.555/.899 with RISP (really wow).

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/18044761/176717774.0_standard_709.0.jpg

Esoteric to the point of being meaningless, but a nice short list anyway:

"Cabrera became the third player since 1921 to have at least 40 homers and 120 RBIs while batting .350 or better through 116 games, joining Babe Ruth and Jimmie Foxx, according to STATS."

surprised their aren't more players on that list, in particular early 2000s barry bonds!

As Mr. Shasta used to lecture, Barry walked too often to rack up RBI. (I post that, by the way, knowing full well how phony such constructions are, when you set the bar at x/y/z so that somebody who has just barely reached each benchmark qualifies.)

Can we start having the "is Miggy already a HOFer?" discussions yet?

Who is going to argue he isn't a HOFer? I mean I could see how he doesn't make it (drugs basically) but otherwise I think even if his career ended tomorrow (or fizzled completely a la Pujols so far) it'd be hard to imagine him not making it.

he's passed the mean on the basic ink/monitor tests, is 18th at 3b by JAWS:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_3B.shtml

Pie Traynor is 58th on that list!

yeah he could retire today and be a worthy candidate

If he retires today, I think he'd easily get a Koufax pass. Or, the more appropriate analogy, Kirby Puckett. I know that not everyone thinks Puckett should be in, but I would have voted for him. Cabrera's 11 seasons are clearly superior to Puckett's 12. (They're somewhat close in WAR.) And on the assumption he plays out the string, his decline would have to be historically precipitous to gum things up.

Another thread, but the case that might be more contentious than anybody would have guessed three years ago will be Halladay's if he doesn't make it back. Analytically, he still gets in easily--I would certainly vote for him. But you can see where there'd be resistance.

Halladay is not as solid 'analytically' as Schilling or Mussina

Clemenza made all the points I was going to make ... some people would argue that his career wasn't long enough, like with Puckett, and memories are short. Edgar Martinez is having a hard time getting into the HOF because people are misled by his relatively short career and relatively unimpressive counting stats instead of remembering how dominant he was in his prime (well, that and the DH thing). And if Halladay never pitches effectively again it'll be the same story with him too.

Cabrera also has the resume-padding (what I like to call the "non-analytical") stuff that some of you dismiss covered: an MVP (probably a second) and a few Top 10 finishes, two batting titles (probably a third), the Triple Crown, even a World Series winner some people have probably forgotten he was part of.

I'm sure Schilling and Mussina will both go in, as they should. I'd take Halladay over either, although Schilling had the best two- or four-year peak. Anyway, I think Halladay will be okay now that I think about it. The obvious stumbling block is the 201 wins. But a) Pedro had slipped my mind, and his induction will make that less of a problem, b) a low win total coupled with a high winning percentage is less damaging, and c) wins are becoming less and less important every year in general, and five or six years from now, I imagine their importance to a HOF resume will be minimal if there's enough clear counter-evidence.

I wouldn't use Pedro as an example there, because he had the best peak of all time.

Cabrera has all the awards and intangibles, definitely. But suppose he fell off a cliff like Pujols and has six or seven years of OK to good production marred by injuries (or if you want to use an existing example, suppose his career follows Ken Griffey Jr.'s in his thirties). By the time he comes up for election, it'll be a good 12-15 years after his prime, and people usually forget how good a player was after not seeing him at the top of his game for so many years. If he really does turn out like Griffey and piles up enough counting stats to make his election a no-brainer, then great, but if he ends up with 450 HR, 1500 RBI or so then who knows.

Anyway, this is why I like to have these discussions while guys are still in their prime.

I was trying to think of possible career paths for Cabrera, and couldn't think of any relevant third basemen. But since he's just impersonating a third basemen anyway, there are a couple over at first who looked like good HOF bets through their age 30/31 seasons, but look like non-starters now.

If he has a fairly quick, productive exit, Delgado. Delgado had one of his two best seasons at 31, so consider his decline to start at 32. Cabrera today + Delgado age 32-37 = 2,710 hits, 530 HR, .307/.388/.556.

A longer, less productive exit, McGriff. Cabrera today + McGriff age 31-40 = 3,316 hits, 592 HR, .305/.385/.532.

Either one, he's in. (Usual caveat already noted above.) I think he'd really have to go into free-fall to play himself out of the HOF at this point. It'd have to be either something like Mattingly, where he's retired by the time he's 35, or he'd have to turn into, I don't know, Sid Bream overnight. But I understand your what-have-you-done-for-me-lately argument--that does matter (cf. Andruw Jones).

i think the discussion's more useful with players who aren't all-time greats like cabrera - there's just no way, short of him being busted for PEDs or something, that he's not elected to the HOF.

agree with Kev here.

One guy who's at a critical juncture right now is Sabathia. He was never going to have a strong sabermetric argument--better than Morris, obviously, but that still wasn't his path--so he had to get to 300 wins or reasonably close. If he doesn't reverse course quickly, I'd say his chance is gone. Verlander, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and say this year's a blip.

i mean it'd be one thing if he were a sabermetric secret like idunno blyleven or tulowitzki these days, but the same body that has witnessed miggy have the first triple crown season in 35 years and is about to give him 2 straight MVPs is the one that will be considering his HOF candidacy. they aren't just going to forget!

yeah i was just thinking about CC yesterday, his advanced numbers are actually very good aren't they, particularly his FIP numbers, but he definitely needs a couple more all-star seasons at least to be safe

maybe we need a HOF chances musing thread

thought we did somewhere...

This is the most general one, I think:

hall of fame, next vote...

Are Any of These Guys HOF Bound?

Rank 20 active players on potential HOF induction

wait, that first one is just the recent tulo/reyes/hanram one

Andruw Jones and Beltran should both be HOFers, but then again the Hall is a total joke to me until Bonds and Clemens get in.

The writers won't forget Miggy obv but he could be underrated by the same group of writers in 10-15 years time. They underrated him until about two years ago, so it could happen again. Or consider Vlad Guerrero -- phenom in Montreal who could do anything (they write the same kinds of things about Puig today), won an MVP with the Angels, had plenty of great years, but declined quickly. His HOF was borderline as it is, but I kind of feel he's already been forgotten somewhat.

He was never going to have a strong sabermetric argument

what does this even mean? he has a 60+ fWAR and he's only 33.

Is it possible for you to ask these questions less aggressively?

What it means is that most of his years fall into the 3.0-5.0 range on Baseball Reference, with three very good years in the 6.2-7.5 range. He's never led the league, with his best finishes being two seconds and a fourth. And, through a fluke of history, his 2010 season (and Price's) became the symbolic counter-arguments against Felix in the old vs. new debate. If decline has indeed set in, I wouldn't call that a strong sabermetric argument, and I don't see him going into the HOF with fewer than 275 wins.

Sabbathia is not going to get in on peak so it really all depends on how he declines. If it's gently with the Yankees we're probably talking 250-260 wins at age 36. I think that's probably enough.

^^^ not a sabermetric argument.

I just see Sabathia as a classic throwback, the guy who was going to make his way into the Hall by winning 15-20 games a year, year-in and year-out, with peripheral stats that were never going to be as strong as the very best pitchers in the game (Felix, Kershaw, etc.), or even as good as passing-through WAR leaders (Josh Johnson, Ubaldo Jiminez, etc.) I don't mean that his peripheral stats aren't pretty solid--his H/9 is consistently in the 7.5-8.5 range, and he's under 3.00 in K/BB--which is why I differentiated him from Morris. But even at the most basic level, ERA, he's at 3.59, which I think would be at the high end of post-war inductees, especially if it goes up even more.

I like CC! He's one of my favourite players in the game, and I hope he turns it around.

once the New Generation takes over, you know they don't have much use for ERA, right?

"Just under 3.00," that should read...Don Sutton; I guess I see CC's HOF path as Don Sutton's, more or less.

Once the New Generation takes over, ERA, Who's Who in Baseball, and I will get in a car and drive out to the coast for good.

lol, do they still publish WWiB? I think I only bought it in '72 and 73.

I was surprised to see it on a newsstand a year or two ago:

http://www.amazon.com/2013-Whos-Baseball-Pete-Palmer/dp/0910692335

Same here--maybe one copy downstairs. (I used to buy Zander Hollander and/or Street & Smith instead.) Pete Palmer's the editor now, though, so I assume there's been some movement towards including less traditional stats.

Seeing a Seinfeld episode here:

Morbius: It must be a bummer for you guys, what with the fall of Joe Morgan and everything.
Clemenza: Yeah, well, we still have Heyman, and Mitch Albom too.
Morbius: Yeah, but come on...
Clemenza: I know, it's not the same.
Morbius: Well, you had a good run--what was it, 75, 100 years? Wreaking havoc, getting Jim Rice into the Hall of Fame, getting that MVP for Justin Morneau...
Clemenza (sighs): Yeah, we had a good run.

This came up on High Heat Stats today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6YzVvtxoaY

Love Palmer (I think that's who it is) watching the replay: "What is this?"

Awesome. I remember hearing about it -- maybe from here! -- but hadn't seen it.

hitting .494 on first pitches

Something I know Morbius will be tracking with great excitement over the next few years: the first-ever Decade Triple Crown.

http://www.highheatstats.com/2013/08/decade-triple-crown-category-leaders/

Obviously way too early. But you look at the ages and proximity of the people behind him on those leaderboards, you'd have to say he's got a good start. Could easily see Trout taking BA, and there's undoubtedly someone just off the leaderboards who's in good position somewhere else.

Williams pretty obviously robbed by the war though.

I made the same point in the comments. (Someone tracked Williams for '39-42/46-51, and he took HR and RBI but lost BA to Musial.)

Obviously the calendar's an artificial construct, and you have to catch it just right. Someone else pointed out that Pujols took all three for 2003-2012. Cabrera's prime years just happened to have coincided with a new decade.

Wait how did Williams win BA for 40-49? Musial BA seems much higher during that period and he has the requisite 2000 ABs.

Nevermind looking at the WRONG line .356 not .336.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BSmpS9XCEAAWozH.png

Miguel promised before the game that he would "hit one for Miley," and now he has.

haha

http://tracking.si.com/2013/08/29/tigers-miguel-cabrera-leaves-game-injury/?sct=hp_t2_a4

That's not going to be good for anybody.

except mike trout

Detroit Tigers star Miguel Cabrera left Thursday afternoon's game against the Oakland Athletics due to discomfort in his abdomen, the team announced.

Cabrera, who leads the majors in batting average and RBIs, suffered the injury while attempting to leg out a double in the fifth inning.

The Tigers updated Cabrera's status on their official Twitter account, announcing that the All-Star third baseman is considered day to day.

So Cabrera is in the lineup. I actually think they should shut him down for a couple of weeks. General consensus seems to be he has MVP locked up. The triple crown, some people like me care, many people don't, and his chance of catching Davis in HR seems slim anyway. More than ever, Detroit has the starting pitching to win everything. They're risking losing (or seriously diminishing) their key hitter, and at this point, to what end I'm not sure.

lasted one at-bat, looks like he aggravated his abdominal injury.

damn, give him some rest, clemenza otm

With both ESPN's SweetSpot (two sit-Cabrera posts today) and ILB bearing down on him/them, Leyland and/or Cabrera finally doing the right thing.

‏@matthewbmowery
#Tigers have scored 58 runs in the 10 games Cabrera has not started.

bench him for good

Castellanos up

Wrong thread.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/3146835/sweet_medium.png

Singing "Sweet Caroline" today...Beyond the numbers, I think I've become a big Cabrera fan for the same reason I was a fan of Gwynn and Kirby: he really does seem like a big teddy bear. (While aware that two of the three had issues away from the game.)

he beat his wife

Well aware. Think that's right in my post.

i know dude

not trying to call you out, obv he has a lot of fans, but like

ask any of chris brown's fans if they think he's a 'teddy bear' and they'd probably say of course

talk about his skill and his greatness and w/e, but as soon as someone mentions anything outside of the game of baseball itself i just can't take seriously

*take it

what was the result of that case? i can't remember now, and it's not on his wiki page

I assume you're referring to Puckett. I was, and am, a fan of Kirby Puckett the baseball player, and I listed a Chris Brown song on my Top 10 a couple of years ago. Neither is an apology, excuse, or rationalization of anything they do away from a baseball diamond or recording studio. The teddy bear comment refers to the Kirby who let teammates rub his head for good luck. I still remember that guy, and was jarred and saddened to learn of the other Kirby.

Me ten minutes ago: "I'd better put in a parenthetical here, or someone will jump on and I'll get drawn into a silly argument."

But after investigators determined both Cabrera and his wife were "aggressors" in the situation, Patterson said, the first baseman was released. Tigers general manager Dave Dombrowski picked Cabrera up at the station between 7:30 and 8 a.m. Saturday, he added.

http://blog.mlive.com/cutoffman/2009/10/reports_miguel_cabrera_parties.html

Chatter and a Captain Beefheart clip starts here:

Whatupdoe let's go 2009 Tigers get Miguel a lemon pączki

but as soon as someone mentions anything outside of the game of baseball itself i just can't take seriously

I think that's precisely what you did--spelling out what everyone knows anyway.

And if you don't feel like checking the old thread, these quotes are from Birmingham's police chief:

“She was the aggressor who started it even though he came home intoxicated and tried to keep the phone from her,” he said. “She proceeded to make the physical altercation first — after which he pushed her. She got scared because he's a big guy ... fear took over on her part because she had hurt him to some extent, and she called 9-1-1.”

While she clearly sounded panicked in the 9-1-1 call released to the public, Patterson said she was quite calm by the time officers arrived at the couple's house. Through an interpreter, it was eventually determined she started the physical altercation by pulling a gold chain from his neck.

“All she wanted was to have him out of the house,” he said. “That said, if we arrested her we had a 4-year-old that we certainly couldn't leave at home with an intoxicated father. We couldn't leave him alone because he was extremely agitated and intoxicated ... so we would have to arrest them both and place the child in protective services.”

yeah that's what i thought i remembered, that it was found* to be more of a domestic dispute than a "wife-beating"

*by the cops, so take that with a grain of salt i guess

Right.

yeah sorry i don't put stock in cop talk or really any of the 'official' legal stuff/announcements that come out after a celebrity gets in trouble. do put stock in the 911 recording tho.

he's back tonight, 0-for-2 so far

Don't know how that kind of decision works with a player of that stature in this day and age--if he says "I'm okay," does the manager just automatically pencil him in, or does it then depend on the manager's clout (i.e., Leyland probably has as much as any manager right now). Tonight would seem to have more to do with Scherzer than anything else. Still seems like a needless risk, especially when they're doing fine anyway.

Make that two ejections during an at-bat this season.

Cabrera's brutal September (since Aug. 27, technically--got this from SweetSpot): 23 games, .257/.382/.311, one double and one home run. In a full season, that'd be...14 extra-base hits.

It's like the Tigers should consider resting him.

That's baffled me since day one. (Being Aug. 27, I guess.) I understand that another TC was kind of sort of within reach for a time, that there's the chance of another MVP, and--what's really driving this, I suspect--that Cabrera is one of those players who, for reasons either noble or selfish or somewhere in between, likes to stay in the lineup. But the Tigers will go into the postseason with a clearly weakened lineup, and on a personal level, he's damaged, not helped, his MVP case. Again, I have no idea whether this is 100% Leyland's call.

"He's not 100 percent. He's been playing in a lot of pain. He's a real tough guy. I think if anybody knew the pain he's playing in, they probably wouldn't believe it."

http://espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/9760412/2013-mlb-playoffs-miguel-cabrera-detroit-tigers-playing-lot-pain-jim-leyland-says

Oh I think we can believe it.

A stubborn myth:

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/42494/cabrera-wont-suffer-without-fielder

(I'm expecting normal decline if Cabrera's healthy, worse if he's not; Fielder won't be a factor, though, even though many will say he is.)

That last month of 2013 really put a damper on his whole year--the question of why he was playing every day, and having to watch what could have been among the greatest offensive seasons ever slip away. Much better September this year (after an up-and-down rest of the year). Here's where he'd be today if you took the first five months of 2013 and combined them with this year's September:

AB - 579
H - 211
2B - 35
3B - 1
HR - 51
TB - 403
R - 114
RBI - 148
BB - 82
BA - .364
OBP - .445
SLG - .696

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2014/10/01/cabrera-declines-playoff-share-just-want-ring/16545473/

i love the "why am i writing this" tone throughout this article facebook really wanted me to see

Not promising:

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/25/dave-dombrowski-on-miguel-cabrera-its-worse-than-what-we-ever-would-have-anticipated/

sorry dave

Hey, no worries.

https://igcdn-photos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/10632163_1589951094551199_806747511_n.jpg

I was visiting my goddaughter this afternoon and noticed this plate as I was leaving. Long odds. You never know.

http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t427/sayhey1/miggy_zps07741f50.jpg

Having a phenomenal partial season; just about to re-enter the yearly leaderboards.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/145158510/miguel-cabrera-set-to-re-enter-al-batting-race

Working on his highest BA and OBA by a wide margin; highest OPS+ of his career, too. His time off and the Tigers' season will possibly break his streak of getting MVP votes every season of his career--he'll probably get a handful of down-ballot votes, though. I would have bet money before the season that his health issues would guarantee further decline.

don't really care about BA so much, but his .367 is waaaaaay ahead of anyone else in the AL (next closest are fielder and kipnis at .320)

@Pele
Good luck tonight to my brother @miguelCabrera in your pursuit for the batting crown !

https://twitter.com/MiguelCabrera/status/639539007832092672

‏@Dan_Dickerson 27s27 seconds ago
...3 hits leave no doubt - Cabrera has won his 4th batting title - becomes just 7th player in AL history to win as many 4 batting titles...

@beckjason
Miguel Cabrera said he wasn't playing at full strength down stretch: "The calf, my ankle. I've been battling my ankle the whole year."

Two HRs off Rivera in the same series.

― Andy K, Sunday, August 11, 2013 4:12 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/miguel-cabrera-detroit-tigers-what-makes-him-great-in-the-words-of-his-peers-030316

Torii Hunter, former Tigers teammate and opponent: We were playing the Yankees in 2013. Mariano Rivera came in to close the game out. He's pitching his butt off. And now Miggy's at the plate.

We had a man on (second). The score is 3-1. It's the top of the ninth. Miggy is battling. You think Mariano is going to throw a cutter. But he kept throwing two-seamers (sinkers) the whole time to mix up Miguel, kind of mess him up because he knows he's good.

He's throwing two-seamers in, and Miguel kept fouling balls off his ankles, his knees. He had to call time out and walk around. Then he threw another two-seamer right by his ankle. Miguel moved his front foot out of the way and hit it to center field, home run, tie game.

(Two days later), guess what? Similar situation. Mariano in the ninth inning, Miggy at the plate, leading off the inning (with the Tigers trailing, 4-2). Mariano this time tries to throw a cutter low and away. Miggy just stays with it. Oppo home run.

I was like, what? I couldn't believe it. I was screaming like a little kid.

Big game yesterday, .327/.401/.588; still one of the top 10 hitters in the game, I would think, although he tailed off after the injury last year, and I expect he'll wear down some as this year progresses.

Game 2000 for Miguel Cabrera
......gets hit # 2400.
....fifth fastest to get there.

(Was 7th fastest to 2000 hits)

5th youngest is what I'm seeing? (They're not nec the same thing.)

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2016/06/12/detroit-tigers-miguel-cabrera/85807474/

http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2014/04/detroit_tigers_miguel_cabrera_103.html

It's 5th youngest, not 5th fastest. The first link puts him in a group with Cobb, Hornsby, Yount, and Aaron. Yount, whose career BA probably never exceeded .300, clearly points to youngest, and when I checked Ichiro, he was sitting on 2,696 hits after 2,000 games. There are 48 players with higher career BAs than Cabrera, and many if not most would have reached 2,400 hits faster.

Cabrera hit one out of Comerica tonight.

http://m.mlb.com/cutfour/2016/06/20/185223330/tigers-miguel-cabrera-hits-booming-homer-that-lands-outside-comerica-park

2500

https://twitter.com/TigresdeDetroit/status/777635908325703680

Youngest since Aaron in '67. (Would have guess A-Rod and/or Yount got there quicker.)

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/202014110/miguel-cabrera-reaches-2500-career-hits/

or jeter!

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/lets-watch-miguel-cabrera-make-a-run-happen/

this is hilarious

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2pQmMPWEAAj_uu.jpg

@DetroitTigersPR
With his 3-run HR in the 5th inning, @MiguelCabrera now has 1,557 RBI in his career, passing Willie McCovey (1,555) for 44th in MLB history.

man i would've expected 1500+ to land him a lot higher on the list

i don't think i would've, given my suspicion that Harold Baines has more.

(looked it up; he does)

guess it's time to reconsider harold's hall of fame case

Just hit no. 450. Now ahead of Bagwell, Guerrero. Just behind Yaz.

.238/.319/.396 is he hurt, Andy?

Now at .265/.352/.442. He's been dealing with back, groin, oblique, and maybe other issues.

@darenw
This is Miguel Cabrera's base hit spray chart since 2008. Doesn't get much prettier than that.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAZKMMbU0AAnIVT.jpg

also oldness. he'll age well though, esp after he moves to DH full time

@msimonespn
MLB's new hard-hit rate leader for the season is ... Miguel Cabrera (27%)

@DetroitTigersPR
With his RBI double in the 6th inning, @MiguelCabrera now has 1,582 RBI in his Major League career, tying Al Kaline for 36th in MLB history.

hasnt hit a homerun in 3 wks

http://i.imgur.com/4HBGXTT.gifv

I only want to watch that in slow motion, for the rest of my life

to the tune of "I Only Have Eyes For You"

http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2017/07/miguel_cabrera_venezuela_threa.html

DETROIT -- Detroit Tigers star Miguel Cabrera is speaking out more forcefully than ever before about the ongoing crisis in his native Venezuela, breaking what he said was his long-standing rule against meddling in politics.

In a series of free-wheeling videos posted on Monday to the "stories" section of his Instagram account, Cabrera blasted the corruption of Venezuela's government, voiced his support for protesters and spoke of threats against his family that required him to pay vacunas, or protection money.

Never seen him more upset with himself.

i don't get to see him hit very often - is he hurt, or is he just getting old?

his wOBA (.328) is far lower than the low .400s that he posted the last decade or so, and even below his rookie year (.338)

if it's not a physical issue, i assume the insanity in venezuela / threats against his family can't help. :-/

Published before last night's game (during which he weakly popped up in a potential game-winning at-bat, and threw his bat into the ground):

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2017/07/24/cause-miguel-cabreras-slump-mystery-tigers/103968674/

Ausmus comparing 34-year-old Cabrera in 2017 to 27-year-old Bagwell in 1995 (coming off one of the greatest seasons ever) is bizarre. I wonder if he meant Bagwell's last two seasons.

@DetroitTigersPR
With 2 hits today, @MiguelCabrera has tied @TimRaines30 for 79th in MLB history with 2,605 career hits.

Detroit Tigers slugger Miguel Cabrera is being sued by a Florida woman who says the two-time Most Valuable Player isn’t paying enough to support two children he fathered with her, setting up a legal showdown that could cost the superstar more than $100,000 a month.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2017/10/13/tigers-miguel-cabrera-paternity-case/106604104/

still a tiny fraction of his salary

fun fact: miggy is going to make more money from the beginning of 2017 to the end of his career than he made in the 14 years he didn't suck, and that's before the possible option years

i wish he would just take a year off to get as healthy as he can possibly get at his age and go from there

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/03/miguel-cabrera-tigers-teammates-names-bro-contract-mlb-detroit-spring-training

Miguel Cabrera has hit five balls with a 100+ mph exit velocity three games into season, according to Statcast. His RBI double off Felipe Rivero makes it an 8-6 game in ninth.

— Jason Beck (@beckjason) April 2, 2018

Third terrific play of the day by Miguel Cabrera. It's worth a repeat: Cabrera's defense is the most underrated skill owned by any player in baseball.

— Lynn G. Henning (@Lynn_Henning) April 1, 2018

note the time stamp of that second tweet

Cabrera’s health struggles last season — trying to play despite two herniated discs in his back — have left a scar, there is no doubt about that. He is going to be supremely cautious with this injury.

“I went through a lot last year, so I don’t want to do the same thing,” he said. “Nobody appreciates when you play hurt. I’m going to take my time and play when I am good. I played a lot of years hurt here in Detroit. They (fans) don’t appreciate that.

“When you are doing bad, they crush you. They crush you. They say you are bad. They say you should go home. You don’t deserve anything. You are old. So I say, OK, I’m done playing hurt. Now I am going to take my time.”

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2018/05/15/cabrera-says-past-efforts-play-hurt-appreciated/34957915/

Miguel Cabrera is hurt.

Miguel Cabrera probably doesn't need his own thread anymore.

show some respect

...I say with some sadness. (You may be barking up the wrong tree there.)

Not to harp on this too much, but there's some tremendous parallels between Miggy and Pujols here. The Cards are thankful every day they let Pujols walk after his age-31 season rather than giving him that deal.

— Mike Petriello (@mike_petriello) June 13, 2018

Officially out for the rest of the season with a ruptured left biceps tendon.

i wish he would just take a year off to get as healthy as he can possibly get at his age and go from there

― qualx, Saturday, October 14, 2017 4:41 AM (seven months ago)

Prescient post.

Not to harp on this too much, but the last thing the team's 85-year-old, championship-craving owner cared about in 2014 (and most other years) was overpaying.

Maybe the Tigers would have been super smart like the Cardinals and let Cabrera walk if THEY had recently won two World Series.

They didn't even need to worry about him walking -- he had two years left on his contract (I'm sure you don't need reminding).

I think there's a good chance Miggy ages like Thome did -- high OBP's and good power, but as a full time DH playing 110 games per year. His iron man seasons with 150+ GP are surely past.

36 today. it's getting ugly : /

think the tigers are going to exercise that second option year in 2025??

It's Miguel Cabrera's birthday!

Let's watch that time he was offered an intentional walk and said "nah." pic.twitter.com/MvDujabTiU

— Cut4 (@Cut4) April 18, 2019

He has looked even worse than the numbers indicate.

poll: if miggy tried to hit an intentional walk pitch today (and if pitchers still threw intentional walk pitches), could he still hit one 2 feet outside for a RBI single

my guess is the pitcher would have to jog forward a little to play it.

after Pujols, is this the worst current contract to be stuck with in baseball?

chris davis is a pretty bad one too

Ooh ya. Three first basemen.

what a moment

With his double in the 5th inning, @MiguelCabrera now has 560 doubles in his career, tying him with Jeff Kent and Eddie Murray for 27th in MLB history.

— Tigers PR (@DetroitTigersPR) April 23, 2019

MRI on Miguel Cabrera's knee is still being reviewed by "a lot of different doctors," Ron Gardenhire said.

— Jason Beck (@beckjason) June 2, 2019

Miguel Cabrera diagnosed with “chronic changes to his knee” as the result of a long career, according to Tigers head athletic trainer Doug Teter.

— Jason Beck (@beckjason) June 4, 2019

what the

hmm, a case of "chronic changes to knee"

beginning to see why they sought out a second opinion

sir, i have bad news. it's about your lungs. they...they're changing. chronically.

“Okay, now, the symptoms you describe point to ‘bonus eruptus’, it’s a terrible disorder where the skeleton tries to leap out the mouth and escape the body.”

a bizarre way to say "old" or "arthritis"

I think I have this affliction

There was a four-year stretch when, after final game each season, would ask Cabrera what injuries he was dealing with down stretch. And only then would he answer. The guy just played, especially when they were playing in October. https://t.co/YHtuMpTtvj

— Jason Beck (@beckjason) June 4, 2019

“The only advice I can say to young kids is take care of their body when they have to," Miguel Cabrera said. "When they have something, stop playing for a week and come back. Don’t play through pain, because you’re going to pay the price later.”

— Jason Beck (@beckjason) June 4, 2019

also do your homework and stay in school

Speaking of Cabrera, his 2019 is one of the oddest superstar decline years that I can remember. If you told me back when Cabrera signed his contract extension that he’d be a terrible major leaguer in 2019, I would have believed you (as did the projections). But I wasn’t quite prepared for the shape of the decline; I did not see Cabrera’s decline phase being “really, really slow Vince Coleman.” I expected Cabrera to look more like Albert Pujols does now, maintaining his power but eventually losing everything else. Instead, Miggy has retained his ability to hit singles but has only hit 10 homers in a run environment where records are being shattered left and right. Just for a quick comp list for 2019, I looked up every season within five points of Cabrera’s in BA, OBP, and wRC+, within 10 points of OBP, and with at least 80 strikeouts.

https://i.imgur.com/UVyEfnq.png

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-detroit-tigers-discovered-their-nadir-in-2019/

Kind of gruesome...He's signed for three more seasons; he might need that to reach 500 HR.

nothing more fun for fans than watching aging vince coleman try to reach a round HR number!

signed for 4 more seasons iirc

Kinda puzzled why Fangraphs is so surprised by his "decline" (3 seasons of fairly level shitty/replacement level)? Or is it "odd" to be that shitty for 3 seasons?

i feel like your question is answered in the quote.

I worded my post poorly:

Miggy's 2019 did not forge much of a different vector from his 2018 (injury) nor his 2017 (terrible) seasons. Expecting an outlier on the tailend of 3 seasons of lackluster performance is a bit reckless imho... tho I'm not a baseball blogger.

As was noted in this Chris McCosky pievce last October, Miguel Cabrera's right knee is not going to get better. It's the core reason why he's not hitting. He's in shape, he has the fire -- but not the right knee. It needs, probably, replacing. No go there. https://t.co/dXTIH507P2

— Lynn G. Henning (@Lynn_Henning) August 26, 2020

A ballplayer getting his knee replaced isn't a ballplayer returning to big-league duties. Thus, it seems, the script is nearly written: Tigers will get him to 3,000 hits, try to get him to 500 HRs. And then there will be a parting. All because the knee can't adequately function.

— Lynn G. Henning (@Lynn_Henning) August 26, 2020

Needs 165 hits for 3000 and 19 HRs for 500.

At .198/.297/.327 this year, and has looked as overmatched as those numbers indicate.

Hasn't appeared desperate, at least -- no major deviation in his swing percentages. Making less contact outside the zone.

I dunno.

talking out of my ass here, but i find it hard to believe that a knee replacement would make things worse than they already are

You don't need great knees to hit a HR from the DH spot (Joey/Albert Belle, Bo Jackson, Kirk Gibson, Mo Vaughan, Don Mattingly, David Ortiz, etc.). But getting those 165 hits might be the bigger challenge if he can't run at 80% or less of his peak speed.

.198/.297/.327 is going to be even worse when pitchers start challenging him more often (he has a walk rate of 11.9%, somehow)

xp you can be slow as hell and still be a good contact/non-slugger:

here's the bottom 10 in sprint speed:

https://i.imgur.com/ggu5FsT.png

well, maybe not a good contact hitter, but still able to get "hits"

Yes, exactly! That's his current "speed". After a knee replacement, you can best believe he will be slower than Pujols & Yadi (he's marginally faster than them now).

Also, just say Miggy collects a hit, he immediately becomes a baserunning liability: much easier to get a double play off of the slowest runner in baseball, he will not be able to slide in to 2B to break up the double play, in fact he will be a huge injury risk every time he has to slide, he will not be taking an extra base on a gapper (1st - 3rd, 2nd - Home). Baserunning liability = more out chances for the defense = less run production for DET.

yeah, i guess i agree it's liable to get pretty ugly. what your'e describing is pretty much albert pujols for the last several years

talking out of my ass here, but i find it hard to believe that a knee replacement would make things worse than they already are

― mookieproof, Wednesday, August 26, 2020 11:32 AM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

recovery is tough and you need to be on blood thinners for a few months. it’s not impossible but for someone his age it’s asking a lot

i'm on blood thinners right now and am totally fine to DH until my cat bites me and i bleed to death

lol

Heating up.

The late-Pujols phase of his career into its fifth year...Hit a HR first time up today, so 12 more for 500. Getting to 3,000 hits will be difficult--full season, no injury. If he duplicates his 2019, he'd just make it. And then, yikes, two more seasons.

on pace for 500 or so HR this season as of today

Miguel Cabrera has departed the field of play via the BIG FLY.#DetroitRoots pic.twitter.com/aQebyTB7eJ

— Bally Sports Detroit (@BallySportsDET) April 1, 2021

The MLB site had a lead story last night about Cabrera on the verge of passing Ruth in career hits. He went 0-3 in each game and is now hitting .146.

New obsession: .125.

I’m going to assume he’s the hands down worst of the big contracts right now? (Votto and Pujols I think are just regular bad)

miggy was a league-average hitter last year and votto is so far this year. pujols hasn't been since 2016

I thought Votto was doing much worse than he actually is.

he had a huge game yesterday but otherwise has been awful

mookie's right tho – according to his OPS+ he's right on league average. obviously tho, in terms of his contract it's p bad.

0-4, .115 (OPS = .443).

Votto was great in 2017, Cabrera was great in 2016, Pujols' last great year was ... 2010 or 2011? He wins hands down.

This must be the abyss looking back: 0-5, 7 left on base, .105 (OPS = .406, tribute to Ted Williams).

Miguel Cabrera is hitless in his last 24 at-bats after a second-inning groundout against Martin Perez. It's the longest hitless stretch of his career.

— Jason Beck (@beckjason) May 6, 2021

stumbled on Miguel Cabrera's stat line like it was a jump scare in a low-budget horror movie

— Patrick Dubuque (@euqubud) May 5, 2021

Damn, that's almost as bad as Francisco Lindor's stats.

0-2; two more hitless AB will drop him under .100.

That Tigers lineup tonight is something to behold. Candelario is batting third and hitting .281. The other eight spots: .216, .175, .102, .210, .192, .159, .158, .200. It's the Detroit Maxvills.

Miguel Cabrera's second consecutive two-hit game moves him to 2876 hits for his career, tying him with Mel Ott for 44th on MLB's all-time list.

— Jason Beck (@beckjason) May 8, 2021

the kid is on fire

In honor of @MiguelCabrera becoming the All-Time Venezuelan-Born Hits leader tonight, I have created an interactive timeline detailing the Venezuelan-Born hit leaders since the debut of Ãlex Carrasquel in 1939.

Check out and see all of the Venezuelan greats in MLB history 🇻🇪🔥 pic.twitter.com/HPZR9JEu8Z

— Greg Harvey (@BetweenTheNums) May 13, 2021

watching aparicio and concepcion show up made me so happy

i love a good interactive timeline

that guy recently did one of those for all-time bWAR

i like how it's quiet for a while in the 80s-90s and then suddenly here comes bonds

that's the most publicity ross barnes has gotten in a century

but until deacon white and the very normal and not racist at all cap anson came along, ross barnes was a fucking legend

i think i made an ed delanhanty reference as a small child to some baseball guy. he had no idea what i was talking about, but that was a sweet reference for a kid in the single digits of age

i was probably like "this kid is no ed delanhanty, that's for fucking sure", and he just didn't get it

kind of suprised to see gehringer still in the top 15 as of 1942. i guess i always thought of him as one of those guys who had a crazy good BA in the 30s

sorry, just got to put itt, why not:

In honor of the great Willie Mays and his 90th birthday on Thursday, I have created an interactive graphic that details the progressive All-Time leaders in Position Player bWAR.

Check this out to see many of your favorite players throughout MLB history! #SayHeyKid ⚾️🔥@SFGiants pic.twitter.com/wrTOYXHh9H

— Greg Harvey (@BetweenTheNums) May 8, 2021

i love in 1988 when schmidt is like "hey" at the very bottom of the top 15

most underrated legend: tris speaker
honorable mention: mel ott

kinda interesting there is a kind of historical stasis from like 1977-1990 and what does that mean re: peoples' fondness for the go-go 80's skinny pants era

it just means they love the underdogs

willie mcgee is not on that list. he is a living legend

kinda interesting there is a kind of historical stasis from like 1977-1990 and what does that mean re: peoples' fondness for the go-go 80's skinny pants era

― Its big ball chunky time (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Thursday, May 13, 2021 7:45 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Good question! My instinct is to think that maybe that the game was more balanced?

Sure but balance can also suggest the game wasnt played very good? Im not saying that from a max efficiency POV just like maybe baseball players secretly sucked

Really it’s the skinny pants.

it's just the product of time. early on ross barnes is a stud with 28 WAR and you can see all these guys pass him; after a century of greats, you need 100 WAR just to appear at the bottom of the list (and the two that show up after 1990 had some chemical help after all). trout may be the only shot for someone else to break in in our lifetimes

also WAR is relative -- it has nothing to say about absolute quality of play. adam ottavino is right that babe ruth would be no match for today's pitchers (or likely even those of the 80s)

100 war won’t happen for pitchers again I believe, unless scientific progress extended the careers of starting pitchers by a substantial margin. Hitters I’m less sure. I wouldn’t be surprised if Betts got in the 85-95 range, and thinking that makes me believe another player in the next 30-40 years could get to 100.

Good June: 329/.356/.494. Just passed Gehrig and Crime Dog.

498

499

500 tmrw?

✔

Hurrah

Glad to see everyone at the game seemed to know what was up.

shortstop with plus defense

https://i.redd.it/58yk05jwk4j71.jpg

Intense eyes!

NOT A CLOGGER, and has now set this trivial record:

Eight consecutive hits for Miguel Cabrera, who lines Michael Wacha's 2-1 pitch into center. Cabrera is the first Tiger in the expansion era (since 1961) to hit in eight consecutive plate appearances.

— Jason Beck (@beckjason) September 10, 2021

wait, we're using "since the expansion era" as a timeframe now? but "since the expansion era" makes it less impressive, both because it's a shorter amount of time (compared to integration/1947 or since the deadball era, 1918/19 whatever), and also the overall quality of talent dropped (same overall players and talent spread out across more teams, with more minor leaguers to fill in the gaps)

ohwell

9 straight!

The MLB record is 12, held by Johnny Kling (1902), Pinky Higgins (1932), and Walt Dropo (1952).

Two hits today; would need 14 in 6 games for 3,000. Not that he'd retire anyway.

Hits in his first two ABs tonight. He's at 2998.

2999

I feel like he has to go 4-4 here.

He'll be leading off the 8th--it'd be nice if the Jays broadcast cut away, but doubtful.

Maybe tomorrow. Busy night with an infield single, a TOOTBLAN, and a run scored from first on a double.

He's also at 599 doubles.

I’m going to guess 600 is a lot!

“Today,” Miguel Cabrera said, “I will bunt.”

— Jason Beck (@beckjason) April 21, 2022

haha, i was just reading this headline

https://i.imgur.com/uvF54F5.png

the classic intentionally-walk-the-batter-with-2999-hits

I will say that is perhaps the only time I've really missed the old intentional walk. Could have enjoyed the crowd gradually realizing what was happening... the cadence of the boos developing with each pitch...... never forget what they took from you

— Emma Baccellieri (@emmabaccellieri) April 21, 2022

1 of those 2,999 hits is an IBB he turned into a single against the O's in the mid-00s. My #1 miggy memory

*watches*

there it is! single to right field!

Damn, missed it--when did they start playing baseball so early? Anyway, saw the replay, nice clean hit.

As for the next 3,000 guy, the prospects are dismal.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/H_career.shtml

Cano (2,630, 39)
Molina (2,116, 39)
Votto (2,035, 38)
Cruz (1,924, 41)
Andrus (1,875, 33)
McCutchen (1,838, 35)
Longoria (1,818, 36)
Altuve (1,783, 32)
J. Upton (1,748, 34)
Freeman (1,722, 32)
Hosmer (1,648, 32)
Brantley (1,584, 35)
Goldschmidt (1,581, 34)

No one else is over 1,500. From that list, Altuve and Freeman have a chance--I'd go with Freeman at this point. The best bet right now, I'd say, is Machado with 1,445 at 29 and playing well. Trout still has a decent chance, with 1,428 at 30, but obviously COVID and injury-time have really slowed him down. After him, I don't think there's anyone in the top 1,000 with a chance--you may be looking at Acuna and Soto and that generation.

The prototypical Miggy knock - hard hit and oppo. The man is one of the best I’ve ever seen at going the other way. pic.twitter.com/lhC7O3oeSz

— Nick Stellini (@StelliniTweets) April 23, 2022

Was walking to (wedding anniversary) lunch, coincidentally near the park, as presumed ticket holders were legging it. That must have sucked for them.

Iglesias’ hug — aww, man.

yeah that hug was super cute

Almost a month into my baseball exile. Kinda weird avoiding it but not too hard to do, but saw Cabrera

Cabrera is maybe the first ILBaseball hall of famer. Pretty much his career has ran the length of the site (almost).

Cabrera was in the Bartman game (early in his career) and we were watching on ILX.

The Cubs ARE still the Cubs

He might have started a bit before the site, but his career has been well commented on over the years on the site.

Altuve won't make it or at least the second baseman decline says he won't. Alomar looked like a lock for 3k hits and he fell off a cliff. Heck Cano looked like a lock until he got busted doping again and again (probably why he was looking like a lock).

It might be a while, players making more money, the game probably eventually leading to a much smaller season and the style of baseball getting away from batting average and getting just 'hits' - might make it kind of a hard stat to get the numbers.

Forgot all about another Canadian store that was right in the mix 30 years ago: Towers (which turned into Zellers, which I guess I'd forgotten).

Wrong thread!

I am very curious about where that comment belongs!

Kmart R.I.P.

Strong Kmart-Detroit connection, so not that wrong.

meijer still lives

Miguel Cabrera just stole Third Base in the year 2022 pic.twitter.com/O4pUrmGpt8

— Calico Joe (@CalicoJoeMLB) July 13, 2022

Miggy's newest milestone: pic.twitter.com/114OKiUnFQ

— Detroit Tigers (@tigers) July 13, 2022

There's a chance Cabrera is playing his final season.

He is undecided about his status for 2023.

"I got to talk to my agent, I got to talk to the GM (general manager Al Avila), I got to talk to everybody to see what's going to be the plan for next year," Cabrera said. "Right now, we're focused on today. We're going to go day-by-day and see what happens. I don't think about next year right now. I think about trying to finish heathy (sic) this year, and we'll see."

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2022/08/04/detroit-tigers-miguel-cabrera-not-guaranteeing-playing-2023/10240941002/

Miguel Cabrera's 3097th career hit is an infield single. https://t.co/Sywd5NQ8As

— Jason Beck (@beckjason) April 26, 2023

Assume he'll get the full Pujols/Ortiz/Rivera send-off from all cities.

pic.twitter.com/4nGPlI9NZo

— Jason Beck (@beckjason) April 26, 2023

(He got a cowboy hat in Houston.)

I see he played his 2000th game with the Tigers the other day, eighth Tiger to do so. But god, what a miserable way to go out, even as measured against his last few seasons: .182/.241/.221. In 77 AB, he's had three doubles and zero home runs.

@beckjason
Miguel Cabrera's 3142nd career hit is an 8th-inning liner to CF off Josh Winder. That not only pushes him past 8-time batting champ Tony Gwynn and into top 20, it ties him with Hall of Famer Robin Yount for 19th on MLB all-time list according to @EliasSports

Little moment between Sale and Miggy in their last game facing each other:

In his return from a two-month stint on the injured list Friday, Sale faced Cabrera — who is retiring at the end of the season — twice. After getting the slugger to ground out to shortstop in the fifth inning, Sale took a moment to catch Cabrera’ attention and tell him something as he jogged to the dugout. For Sale, who has faced Cabrera 70 times since breaking into the big leagues with the White Sox in 2010, it was important to pay his respects.

“It wasn’t fun learning how to pitch in the big leagues as a starter during his Triple Crown and MVP years, I can tell you that,” Sale said after throwing 4 ⅔ impressive innings in a 5-2 Red Sox win. “I knew this was going to be the last time I faced him and I wanted him to know I had a lot of respect for him. I obviously appreciated the competition throughout the years. We obviously had some pretty good battles. He’s welcome. You’re welcome, Miggy. I helped you get to the Hall of Fame.”

Though Sale won both battles Friday, the 40-year-old Cabrera got the best of Sale for most of his career. For his career, Cabrera is 17-for-59 (.288) with four homers, two doubles, 11 walks and a .925 OPS against Sale, who he saw frequently during their time playing against each other in the American League Central when Sale was with the White Sox. Sale has struck Cabrera out 19 times, good for the second most by any pitcher ever (Lance Lynn, 22).

…

“He does things the right way, too,” Sale said. “You look at his career and what he’s done. I just wanted to say a little something to him, give him a head nod and let him know, ‘I appreciate what we’ve been through over the last few years.’ Kind of a tip of the cap on the way out. He has earned it.”

Sale added, "I presented him with my prized autographed portrait of Drake LaRoche."

The other day:

https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fmedia%2Fmotion%2F2023%2F0820%2Fdm_230820_MLB_One%2DPlay_Miggy_Jose_Ramirez_moment%2Fdm_230820_MLB_One%2DPlay_Miggy_Jose_Ramirez_moment.jpg

16 Beltre
17 Cabrera
18 Brett

<3

Some good clips of his last game here: https://www.mlb.com/news/miguel-cabrera-walks-plays-first-base-in-final-mlb-game

Cabrera ends his career with a .306 average, 3,174 hits (16th-most in Major League history), 511 home runs (tied for 25th), 627 doubles (13th), 1,881 RBIs (12th), 1,258 walks, 103 sacrifice flies (tied for 25th) and a .900 OPS.

Some abysmal stretches but his last month (.324/.365/.441) wasn't a bad way to go out. He seemed to enjoy himself all season.

16th in hits is no joke

I'll always be a fan for giving me the chance to experience something I'd been waiting years for, a Triple Crown. I did not, as a result, fully engage with the rookie out in California, but that's okay.

"How about that? They put the guy out there for a curtain call and the first ball is hit right [to him],” said Guardians manager Terry Francona. “Sometimes, maybe things work out for a reason."

https://www.mlb.com/news/miguel-cabrera-walks-plays-first-base-in-final-mlb-game

'how often do you see it? guy makes a great play in the field and it turns out he's leading off the next inning!'

will also miss tito. glad neither of them got thrown out of the game

It was lovely seeing the gifts he got at various stadiums on the way. Except for the A’s giving him a bottle of wine…wtf was that

I watched the highlights of his final game and was struck by how lucky we are to have these nice final moments of HOF-worthy players. I think this is something new -- what happened in Reggie Jackson's final game? Rod Carew's final game? Great players retire now and their final moments in MLB become news, with a touching send-off that people can remember forever. Jeter and Petitte made the pitching change to remove Mo Rivera from his final game, Joe Mauer came in to catch one last time ... this stuff is priceless.

I def remember that broken bat rocking chair Mariano got. Thought it was insanely cool.

These are pretty cool too

The Tigers gave Miggy Jordan cleats made out of baseballs from milestone moments throughout his career 🤯 pic.twitter.com/jcKl2o80D2

— MLB Life (@MLBLife) September 30, 2023