Oum Kalthoum, Om Kolthom, Om Kalsoum, Omm Kalsoum, Omme Kolsoum, Oom Koolsum, Oum Kalthoum, Oum Kalthum, Oum Kalsoum, Oum Kaltsoum, Oum Kolthoum, Oum Koulsoum, Oum Kulthum, Oum Kulthume, Um Kalthoum,

Okay, I'll go to bed now and leave this alone.

BUT...please don't forget about Asmahan, another great singer who died early in life. Om Kalsoum's only true competition.

Asmahan's brother is also a very good.

http://www.asmahan.com/asmahan/bio.html

mark s, I've seen some unbelievable versions of some of these titles, including one for "Robaiyat el Khayam" which was something like "Robaaaiyaaet" etc. with all these a's in a row.

Umm when I was updating information for a reprint of it she told me she'd heard Rounder was about to release some lavish retrospective. I called Rounder to confirm -- they have great zydeco hold music on their phone system -- but they said they had no idea what I was talking about.

Actually I even bought a copy of her dissertation before the book came out (the only dissertation I've ever purchased). My appreciation for the book has increased as I've continued to listen to Oum Kalthoum. It might be of some general interest as a slice of 20th century Egyptian social history, though it's probably going to mainly be of interest to those interested in Arabic music.

The Rounder rumor is intriguing. I imagine I would already have a lot of what such a collection would cover though. I think it would be difficult to make a compilation of her works, since she usually stretched songs out to around an hour or so.

My favorite general choice for an introduction to her work is Robaiyat el Khayam. I consider it a comparatively accessible recording, but one which still gives some indication of why she was great (and a recording, incidentally, which I find I can listen to in just about any mood). Ya Zalamny, mentioned above, has a very immediate emotional impact (at least to me) which I think also makes it a good entree into this artist's work.

Because of the (somewhat unusual) degree of improvisatory interaction between ensemble members and Oum Kalthoum in Ana Fe Entezarak I consider it a particularly good introduction for listeners coming from a jazz orientation. I find the beginning somewhat slow-going but it builds into something quite remarkable. Other early works that I particuarly like include: Habibi Yessaied, Salo Koos, and Ya Toul Azzabi.

I don't find her singing in the recordings from the 60's quite as impressive, but there is still some good music here. Inta Omry is quite popular, though not really a personal favorite. (If you buy it, try to buy the studio version.) The 60's introduced into her orchestra some odd combinations of electric guitar and electric organ, often with what sounds to my ears to be a psychedelic tinge. (Hearing Arabic played on electric organ tends to be inherently psychedelic, however.) There are some passages, which are pretty mind-bogglingly wonderful. At other times the material sounds overly dated, or too campy. Some good examples would be Mein Agle Aynaika, Layalt Hob and Hazihi Leylaty (which is probably the best of those three, with some pretty fine singing--but make sure you have the live version). Fakarouni is also pretty good, though I'm not sure if it's the sort of thing that would attract a first time listener to Oum Kalthoum.

There's quite a bit more that I have which is worthwhile, and then there are a lot of recordings I haven't yet gotten.

I really enjoyed it and now i'm off in another direction. I hope to get hold of more recordings in the coming months (yr list above will be a guide) though I will prob spend more time with this cassete for now (I just want to spend sometime at home just listening to records).

Thanks for the cassete. that was very very kind of you.

I'm gonna burn a cecil taylor disc for you. How abt 'Silent tongues' (a solo set from 1974)? If you got it already let me know because I've got more.

My two cents
Jan

Actually, I'd be interested in recommendations on the best Abdel Wahab recordings. I hadn't heard much performed by him that I liked, but this past summer I picked up the CD with "Toul Oumri" "Igry Igry" etc. and found that I enjoyed it.

This board (as you can see) isn't particularly focused on Arabic music, but we can still discuss it.

I think I need to get a high-speed connection before I get back into collectng MP3s.

I have a question. What looks to be a fairly respectable series of Khaltoum CDs called "Diva of Arabic Music" turns up on the Web a lot (although I've never seen them in local shops). Do you know anything about these--do they contain music from throughout her career, etc? Also, have you heard any of her work from the 1920s'? The All Music Guide lists two compilations on the label Artistes Arabes. Do you know if and where these might be available?

What city do you live in, incidentally?

(Nabisco: I may have met you. But -- how do we break the veil of anonymity without revealing our identities to all and sundry?)

I dunno, was it at a Microphones show? I'm not super-keen on the veil of anonymity thing, my name's Nitsuh.

A good web-site for online distribution of Arabic music is www.maqam.com. A little more thorough than amazon.com.

(I think Lata Mangeshkar is still numerically ahead.)

I should just get the book, shouldn't I.

Not particularly recommended: Habibati Man Takoun, Ya Malik an [Malikan?] Kalbi, Maddah el Amar.

A lot of people can't stand him and consider him a creation of Mohammed Abdel Wahab meant to compete with Farid el Atrache when Abdel Wahab could no longer sing; but Oum Kalthoum said good things about Abdel Halim Hafez, so it's hard to believe he wasn't a good singer. However, I personally don't think he's on the same level as Oum Kalthoum, Asmahan, Abdel Wahab, Farid, and Fairouz.

I think Oum Kalthoum acted and sang in about five films. (Yes, get the book: it's pretty good.) She was generally not considered as effective as a film star as she was as a live concert performer. Asmahan was much more comfortable as an actor, and she also had the glamorous looks for it. (On the other hand, she was pretty terrified of live performances. It would have been very interesting to see how the competition between these two would have unfolded had Asmahan not died at 24.) If you're interested in Asmahan, btw, the recently released EMI Arabia BBC recordings of Asmahan are a good (though the sound quality is spotty). Farid el Atrache had a long career starring in movies, and I'm pretty sure that Abdel Halim also appeared in films. I think they pretty much all did, to one degree or another. Plus there were some less known, but still pretty prominent, singers who also had combined singing/acting careers.

I'm glad to see this thread was recovered. I was a little worried.

Tonight I picked up:

Mohammed Abdel Wahab: Daret al Ayam [I don't like his singing here, and I'm not that big a fan of his oud playing anyway, though the title song has some great moments, compositionally speaking; but you're better off with the Oum Kalthoum recording, I think. Actually, even that isn't among her best, but parts of this song are quite memorable.]

Farid el Atrache: Hikayet Gharami

Asmahan & Farid [two different CDs, one blue, one pink]

I'm really happy I didn't miss out on the chance to pick up the Asmahan & Farid CDs. The sound quality is surprisingly better than it is on the Club du Disques Arabe "Les Archives de la Musique Arabe" Asmahan CDs (for the songs that overlap). In particular, her singing is much clearer here. Mind you, this is not fantastic sound, just relatively better. These disques [unintended typo! how did I do that?] contain the songs that Farid wrote for his sister. I wonder what sort of originals Club du Disques Arabe was working from.

The store where I bought these also had some Latin CDs on sale for cheap. I picked up a Victor Manuelle compilation for &6.99. I think it was probably worth it.

From Vol. II of the "Anthologie de la Musique Arabe" Oum Kalthoum CD series: Kam Baatna (1926) 7'25; Dzikra Saad (1926) 4'30; Ya Assiya Elhagr (1927) 6'48; Ala Anni El Hagr (1927) 6'00, etc.

*Unlike about a dozen great Arabic music audio sites I had bookmarked long ago, which have either disappeared, no longer work, or now charge money.

my favorite part of the album comes in the intro to the first song where there's an electric guitar playing the lead melody. it's got a clean tone, and almost reminds me of either surf music (yes i know dick dale was heavily influenced from his lebanese upbringing) or some of the guitar leads in a Morricone western. i guess i like this now because it's the most western, recognizable element of the music. something i can grasp onto. it's also neat because, the guitar being fretted, you can't get many of the semitones you would be able to get from a violin or oud.

btw. Rockist: you're A Music Consumer and DeRayMi? i always thought there were two big salsa lovers on the board, and now i find it's just you?

The music (by Mohammed Abdel Wahab) and lyrics are both pre-composed, but there is room for melodic, and other types of improvisation, by Oum Kaltoum. Also, Oum Kalthoum frequently would repeat verses or longer passages in response to audience requests to hear them again (or simply in response to her sense of the crowd's mood); and part of the challenge would be to sing the same thing again, but change it in effective ways. I don't think that her orchestra would have had much difficulty staying in sync with her improvisation, since (a) they seem to have had certain conventional little sound squiggles they could fall back on and (b) they worked with her so extensively, and would have included musicians who had been with her for decades, probably.

Keep in mind that this is late in her career, and her voice is not as flexible or powerful as it was when she was younger.

Some other recordings that include electric guitar: Alf Leyla, We Marret el Aym (sometimes: Daret el Ayam, etc. etc.), Inta Omri.

("A Music Consumer" was an abortive name change, and yes DeRayMi is an earlier screen name, changed in a futile effort to stop putting out so much information that could identify who I am in real life.)

If anyone wonders who I consider to be not-dry oudists, I give my usual examples: Riad el-Sounbatti (whose CD of taksim is once again unavailable, so I've missed out for now), Mohammed el-Qassabji (though I haven't heard much of his solo playing at all), and Farid el Atrache (despite his over-reliance on the same formula for most solos).

I'm more willing to criticize someone like Simon Shaheen (or Marcel Khalife's oud experiments) because I think I have a handle on the tradition they are operating out of; but in the case of Hamza el Din, I don't think I have enough of a feel for Sudanese music, or for the distinctive Nubian ethnic tradition.

I'd be interested in hearing more though. The only CD I have by him is Music of Nubia. What have you heard and what would you recommend?

what i like about it is it's sparseness and feelings of melancholy and introspection. for most of the disc it's just him on oud and voice with the occasional percussion or clapping. everything is real slow and dark (just like i like my salsa, heh).

when i bought this cd, i was really feeling Sandy Bull and Peter Walker (a little less so). since then i've gotten more into Fahey and Robbie Basho. but this music really reminds me of these players. a man and his guitar. it's very intimate.

what i like the least about this is that it was recorded and produced by Micky Hart. i guess this isn't really a bad thing in itself, but it almost sticks a tag of "New-Age-World-Music" on it.

my tastes might be a lot different than yours RS. not that i don't think what you think is good is good, but that i really, really enjoy non-western musics, but from a western perspective. i really like stuff that is a foreign interpretation of western music. Brazilian tropicalia, Afro funk, Ethiopiques, Italian psych, French rock, Krautrock. I'm starting to get into Salsa because it reminds me of funky-jazz.
(ugh, i reread this and feel like a total bandwagon scenester dork)

and yeah, Shaheen does have an old Wahab album but this is a new project.

re Hamza el din - try Waterwheel his first album just rereleased by Nonesuch, his last album "the wish" is also pretty good

so why do you not care for Sudanese music? or perhaps, who have you heard as that might be part of it.

H, I haven't heard very much Sudanese music, and at this point I no longer remember who it is that I have heard. I am afraid I can't really describe what I don't like about it, but I think it might be that it sounds as if it's going to do what the Egyptian/Syrian/Lebanese/Gulf music I especially like does, but then instead it goes and does something else, leaving me disappointed.

I don't like jazz all that much, so Shaheen + Jazz isn't really a draw for me. In fact, in general, I don't like to hear Arabic music mixed with jazz (not that there's anything inherently wrong with it).

JasonD, Since so much salsa has been recorded in New York, I think it's fair to say that salsa is an American form of music (and Puerto Rico is, of course, kind of/sort of part of the U.S.). No need to defend your taste. I sometimes laugh at the "expert" persona I am wearing on this thread. You might like Abdel Wahab in particular, among Oum Kalthoum's composers, since he tended to make the most blatant use of various western styles. There are a lot of great electric keyboard sounds in this music from the 60's and 70's, but unfortunately, they often only appear in the introduction and maybe occasionally later on as a little added timbrel (sp?) variety.

>it sounds as if it's going to do what the Egyptian/Syrian/Lebanese/Gulf music I especially like does, but then instead it goes and does something else, leaving me disappointed.

This struck me as its so different from how I listen to music -enjoying similarities between e.g. Ethiopian & Indian, but also enjoying how they then go off in such completely different directions. I'm trying to think of what might cause that equivalent diappointment for me (only exxample i can think of is thinking "Under Pressure" is coming on the radio when it is "Ice Ice Baby" but that doesn't really work)

What in particular about this style grabs you to create that loyalty? We talked about rai on another thread but do you listen to music from Turkey? Armenia? I'm curious.

(was inspired to look up the Fadl album and was reminded on the website about the fact that 3 million (!) ppl attended Oum's funeral.)

The Vocals: Somehow the vocals in Turkish and Persian music that I've heard often feel either too restrained or too harsh, but Arabic vocals, at their best (a sneaky qualification), seem to me to strike an ideal balance. I like the sense that the vocalist is deliberately reeling out the singing.

The Instruments: I don't think there's a single traditional Arab instrument that I find bothersome. The oud, the kanun, the ney, and all the percussion typically used, sound "just right" to me. (The biggest problem for me in most of the Arabic music I like is the imported western string section, even if it is used differently.) Some Persian instruments are jangly in a way that I dislike (and I think some of these are used as well in Turkish music). Even one type of drum used in Persian music has this sort of rolling quality that I don't like (the percussive equivalent of the string instrument jangliness I hear elsewhere).

Improvisation: This applies especially to Oum Kalthoum, I suppose (and definitely not to Fairouz), but I enjoy the improvisatory element in Arabic singing. Maybe I have simply not listened to the right examples of related musics with an improvisatory aspect.

Rhythms: I'm not sure I have any problem with Persian and Turkish rhythms, but, I am very sure that I like Arabic rhythms, and I'll be damned if I can explain why, but I feel as though I am being re-organized by them, in a beneficial way. The rhythms in Oum Kalthoum's songs aren't usually the main draw for me (though I've gotten to like them over time, after taking a while to even notice that something was going on with the percussion), but I like belly dance rhythms; the fantastic rhythms in folkloric and some pop Syrian and Lebanese music; and much of the rhythm in Iraqi and Saudi music. Okay, one thing I can think of is that there's a certain way the rhythms seem to fall back on themselves, and then recollect themselves and keep moving. Also, they often contain a very long cycle of beats.

Melodies, modes, and structure in general: This is harder for me to talk about. I don't really have a way to describe these differences. The modes are pretty much exactly the same (from one middle eastern tradition to another), taken as a series of tones, but there must be some sort of difference in some of the other conventions surrounding how the modes are used. I don't know.

I think a lot of it is just that of all the modal, microtonal musics I've been exposed to, Arabic music is the one I've had the most exposure to, so it's become my "home base" in a way (at least for modal, microtonal music).

I'm pretty keen on some of the Greek music I've heard, but have had trouble finding anyone to guide me into more of that. Incidentally, I did start a thread about Turkish music here.

Something which I think was in the back of my head earlier was your coment on not liking jazz and Arabic mixes. I think perhaps I read (projected) a little more traditionalist approach into that than was meant as I was thinking ‘bout how ubiquity of jazz in 20s & 30s led to developments in many local music scenes from adoption of different instruments to new approaches to folkloric and that it is a building block for a lot of stuff (tho you do note above you don’t like the use of western string sections)

hmm, have to think and come back to this

BTW great thread, I haven't got round to anything since the cassete but I'll try to get some more during the easter break (I haven't investigated good places to get 'world music' in london but I'll look).

even though sun ra has done a lot with jazz, you know, that's where he starts from but I get what you're saying.

Though I still think you might get to like some jazz in the future.

Contemporary Egyptian dance music is not going to give me this. I like dance music (that is: music for dancing), but the old popular classical music is largely non-dance music for me.

Odd that people don't seem to talk that much about variation in tempo with a performance (or recording) as a value similar to variety of dynamic range. (One exception would be fans of prog.)

(Julio, once I have listened to all he Billie Holiday and Ella Fitzgerald I want to listen to, my familiarity with the standards they sang might make me more receptive to instrumental jazz of all types. Not that that's why I want to listen to them (I want to listen to them because I like them--well, I know I like Billie Holiday, and I think I could like a lot of Ella), but it occurs to me that it could be a byproduct of doing so.)

Oh wait, you're shifting gears. El Hob Kolloh. Let me see what that is. That's very very late and not representative. If it's the one I'm thinking of, she's sounds like she's on her last legs. It has some creepy organ sounds in it, but I can't recommend it. It's more represenative of Abdel Wahab's compositional style than of Oum Katlhoum's singing abilities.

What else is there?

Yam Saharny is a great song in its own right, I just am not crazy about her version (which is the original).

I would recommen Hob Eh more over the other two, but I realize that download time may make that impossible.

I'm listening to El Hob Kolloh now and she sounds a bit out of place in the midst of this music, though it has its moments.

Volume 1
1. Azkouriny 33:37
2. Salo kaos al fella 31:13

Volume 2
1. Hadeeth al rouh 26:23
2. Ghareb ala bab el raga 22:26

Volume 3
1. Woleda el hoda 56:54

Volume 4
1. Gadet hobak leih 39:18

Volume 5
1. Al nile 27:04
2. Nagh el borda 22:56

Salo kaos al fella
Woleda el hoda
Nagh el borda

Judging by the track lengths, it looks like the box set versions of the latter two would be live recordings. I have only heard the studio recordings of these songs. They should still be good. For a long time I didn't like these two songs though. The melodies are very counterintuitive from a western point of view, and possibly even from an Arab point of view, since these were considered difficult songs at the time.

I am not sure I've heard the others, though I suspect they would be good. They seem to all be from around the 40's.

It's possible that more recent, individual, recordings of these songs would have better sound quality, but these are pretty old recordings to begin with.

[the record is WAY better than the REALLY LAME Fairuz record I bought; I am no worrying that Fairuz is actually rubbish, and the good record I have by her is an aberration]

What I think about Fairuz is that she is a great singer, but doesn't have the best judgment about what material to use. Basically anything from the 80's forward is iffy. But the styles in which she works are extremely varied. But I bet there is more than one CD worth material by her that you would like. I can't be as helpful with her, since I don't know her nearly as well as I know Kalthoum. (Of course, that unevenness is partly why I don't know her work as well.) What Fairuz did you get? Have you heard Soiree Avec Fairuz? The sound quality is really poor, but the music is quite good. That's cheating a little since it's more classical than most of her work.

In his chapter on the specifically musical aspects of this music, he introduces the term "heterophony" (which was new to me): "As a cultivated form of artistry, heterophonic interplay is a primary feature of takht [small ensemble] music. In practice, heterophonic texture exists in two closely related formats, an overlapping type and a simultaneous type. The first occurs when a leading music part, typically a vocal improvisation, is accompanied, for example, by an instrument such as the qanun. In this case, the accompaniment 'echoes' the leading part at a slightly delayed pace, or in a rather 'out of sync' fashion. The second type applies mostly when ensemble members produce slightly varied renditions of the same musical material at the same time. This happens when takht instruments perform the same basic compositions together, but with each one rendering it differently through subtle variations, omissions, ornamental nuances, syncopations, anticipations, and so on. . . . [I]n Umm Kulthum's live recordings from the 1940s and 1950s. . . [i]n certain middle sections. . . heterophonic activity becomes particularly prominent, a suspenseful and musically focused mood engulfs and audibly moves the singer's avid admirers." Racy also comments on how heterophony has become less common in Arab music, due at least partly to the fact that it became more difficult as the takht grew into a small orchestra with an entire string section.

"Tarab artists demonstrate a striking proclivity toward moving loosely with the beat, as comparedto performing strictly on the beat, for wandering about without losing track of the underlying temporal structure. They seek a desirable balance between metric orderliness and rhythmic freedom. . ." Racy discusses this in more technical detail, but it's hard for me to excerpt or summarize, since I'm still getting a handle on it.

It's sad to me that while improvisation was making a come-back in the west, via jazz (primarily), Arab music was moving away from it, in emulation of western classical music.

Incidentally, Racy makes clear the respect in which Fairouz is a break from the tarab oriented tradition: "Meanwhile, increasingly transformed and internally varied, the musical mainstream had to vie with more recent and more novel-sounding musical expressions. One example was a Lebanese urban popular style which, pioneered in the late 1950's by the Rahbani Brothers and associated with the celebrated female vocalist Fayruz, dervied elements from the local folk repertoire, Western music, and traditional Arab music."

For example, I read--SOMEWHERE, but I can't put my hands on it--a quote from Oum Kalthoum criticizing her 40s-50s work for being too exclusively concerned with tarab, and not putting enough emphasis on putting across the text (which was very important to her). While I suspect this might partly be a matter of denial on her part that her best years were behind her, I also think there is a certain amount of Arab suspicion of tarab (which is most commonly translate as "ecstasy" but doesn't have an exact English equivalent), and not just among fundamentalists. The Lebanese composer, Marcel Khalife (a Christian, incidentally), expresses misgivings of music which gives itself over so completely to emotion, and has actively sought to keep a balance with more intellect involved. I wish Racy would write something about this, since when I write, it's largely a matter of wild speculation based on a few pieces of information.

I'm listening to these mp3s. I like "el ward" and "gharidou" better than the first three.

Check out "A Voice Like Egypt," a film about Umm Kulthum based on Virginia Danielson's research.

(Do the MP3s on that page add up to enough to make a CD? Not that I would know how to do this.)

Now let's see if I can figure out how to copy them onto a CD, because I'm just borrowing this computer for a moment.

I met Laur Daccache in Egypt about seven years ago, I was invited to the Woman's league of Egypt, which was headed by a friend of mine and Mrs. Hosni Mubbarak, and the people said to me, they heard that Laur Dacashe was a singer but she had no records or tapes available in Egypt, so they had to rely on my word that she was a great vocalist in the early 1950's[.] It was strange to have to vouch for a great singer like her, Today finding her songs on Cd are rare indeed, like her big song Amanti Bellah (I believe God).

Today I went to a record store and saw a discount 5-CD box set of Oum Kalthoum, simply entitled "The Diva." It was on the Next Music label. Do you know anything about this and whether it's worthy? It seems like perhaps it could be a good entry point.

Thank you,

Amateur!st

If it has these songs:

Volume 1
1. Azkouriny 33:37
2. Salo kaos al fella 31:13

Volume 2
1. Hadeeth al rouh 26:23
2. Ghareb ala bab el raga 22:26

Volume 3
1. Woleda el hoda 56:54

Volume 4
1. Gadet hobak leih 39:18

Volume 5
1. Al nile 27:04
2. Nagh el borda 22:56

Then I recommend it. (Those were posted by H. above.) I don't know every song, but I know some of them, and this is from part of the best part of her career. The only possible downside is that some of the recently reissued separate CDs for these may be remastered and sound better, but frankly, the sound quality is not going to be fantastic for these years.

If it's a collection of the five volume EMI Diva series that has several songs on each CD, I can't personally recommend it, because that's a little earlier than I like. The experts still consider it good material, but I just don't get it myself.

Anyway, if there are more than three songs per CD, then it's probably from earlier than what I'd suggesting listening to. I just looked and I see there are a couple possible box sets this could be, so I don't know exactly what we are dealing with.

You can probably find it at amazon or cduniverse, but it will almost invariably cost a lot more.

I'm somtimes confused as to whether you are referring to albums or songs in your recommendations above.... Or are they one and the same thing essentially? The Gilbert Joseph in Paris has a large collection of O.K. CDs (although I imagine there are Arabic stores aplenty that would have more, and for less money, but I wouldn't know where to find them) from which I might choose.

Can anyone burn a CD of that Laure Daccache stuff for me? I've had no luck finding the CD...

I have somewhatthe same feeling about her as i about classical music - ITS SO GOOD! but also once you start you can never stop so its a lil frightening.

Anyway, I don't recommend feeling guilty about it.

I wasn't aware of all the Oum Kalthoum guilt. Now I feel bad, like I'm responsible for everyone's guilt.

Which actually reminds me, Rockist - I first heard of Kalthoum a number of years ago through an old anthropology prof who had asked me to digitize some of his old reel-to-reel tapes (!) of middle eastern music. THe thing was, he didn't remember / hadn't labeled all the tapes, so some of the artists are unidentified. I love this collection (burned myself a copy), and I'd love to find out who some of these people are, but my knowledge is very limited. Could I send you a copy of this thing? Perhaps you might recognize some of the artists. Let me know...

Did you ever have any luck finding anything else by Laure Daccache? I looked everywhere in Paris for the one CD that had been released (on some tiny French label), but turned up empty-handed.

I've only listened to it once and I know I really ought to give it another try but I'm afraid I'm not over inclined to 'cos it really didn't anything for me at all the first time.

It is and you did; but alas it was too late!

x-post: Oh well. I don't even like her songs from before the late 30's, except for one or two. (I think that might be due to a heavy Turkish influence on the compositions she sang in her early years.)

The sounds were very easy for me to immediatey warm to, as it sounded like a variation on hindustani music, yet I must admit that the modern singer was more accessible, voice-wise, than Oum. But she wuz still c00l.

I see what you're saying. I just bought the Buda Musique El Sett CD (due largely to this thread) and, yeah, her voice doesn't seem "beautiful" in a conventionally western sense (unlike, say, Amalia Rodriguez, who when I first heard her, I said OMFG) but even on first listen I'm intrigued by her vocalization. There's something there that fascinates. And this, of course, is all 30's material--the only thing immediately available to me. Thanks for the tips!

Also, it really helps if you can see some live footage of her performances.

(I was disappointed when I finally heard some Amalia Rodriguez, incidentally. "World music diva" fite!)

(The complexities of what she does with her voice can't adequately be modeled by pelvic thrusting though.)

this is a very politically sensitive issue, R.S. america's dependency on saudi arabian music is something that out government needs to reevaluate. perhaps they can look into alernative sourcse of arabian music, or more efficiently utilize relatively untapped resources of arabian music in alaska or the texas panhandle.

That's the spirit.

amateurist, the whole idea of buying CDs made in a country whose official theology is anti-music (or something close to that) is baffling.

(I don't mean to bug you, but my e-mail account is kind of unreliable, so there's a real chance you didn't.)

(Unfortunately, the post office has also been unreliable lately.)

(And I just got the contract ratification bonus check today. Wheeee! And I took some decongestant because I'm getting a sinus infection! Wheeeee!)

gaz, you can e-mail me at my new normal ILX e-mail address: oumtransmissions@go.com. I have even written down my password.

I also saw yesterday that Women's Voices Across Musical Worlds has an article on the subject of this thread by Virginia Danielson, which looked like a really good compact introduction to Oum Kalthoum.

Recommended recordings:

Why is Al Atlal so often the recommended CD? Why that as the only one-song CD they recommend? Why recommend the 5 volume EMI collection of early material? Why bypass the core of her greatest work: the late 30s through the early 60s?

I paid over ten dollars for this issue of Songlines, so I could complain about this?

(Songlines is really lightweight. Despite it's frequent mediocrity, I think The Beat's coverage of the "world music" that it covers, which probably wouldn't include Oum Kalthoum, is better.)

Geez, I think the Oum Kalthoum intro. that appeared in Global Rhythms was better than this (but that's by the same author who wrote that NPR guide mentioned above, and I get the impression that he's spent some time listening to Oum Kalthoum.

Actually, Songlines is pretty good for reviews. It's the articles that are usually a let-down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umm_Kulthum

Jah Wobble? He's worth mentioning in a capsule biography of Umm Kulthum? (Did Natacha Atlas write this?)

http://www.lorenlarsen.com/joanna/ummbio.htm

I think Mohammed might just be a little better known.

She did not use musical scores, she simply sang a few simple lines over and over altering them as her heart saw fit.

She didn't read scores while performing, but her works were probably all pre-composed. The lines might have generally been fairly simple, but some of the lyrics were considered to be very challenging poetry.

Oum Kalthoum in Iraq, 1932. (That's what the website said anyway.)

Oum Kalthoum's villa.

BOOM, the GLASSES.

Thanks

"The greatest ever singer in the world"--Rabih Abou Khalil (quoted in Songlines, Jan/Feb 2006).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtWvmD9A2RA

The beginning of "Baid Anak" is now up on youtube. (There are other parts up too. I haven't checked to see if it is a complete concert. The CD copy of this is quite long, and even it, I think, leaves off a portion of the instrumental intro. here, though I haven't listened for a while, so I'm not positive.) This opening passage is one of my favorite Oum Kalthoum performances (and it's from relatively late in her career). Notice how she totally works off the one possibly overzealous audience member who calls out (around 4:26ish) and just takes everything deeper. This is absolute must-see if you are remotely interested in Oum Kalthoum:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl0g6dXIsqQ

Performing "Al Atlal" in Paris:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy_24rwXlKA

Another "Al Atlal"!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLmDUk4g7xg

(This was something she performed very heavily in her international touring at one point in the 60s. Not like I was there, alas.)

This is pretty amazing (one-hand oud solo version of "Inta Omri"):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRvcIwKL2fI

Interesting. This Kuwaiti audience behaves more like a western audience than maybe any other audience I've seen/heard in an Oum Kalthoum live recording.

another victim of ilx2 thread title truncation

Yes, it's sad. What is it with people reviving my old threads today? (Not complaining, it's just weird.)

If only ILX could do Arabic script - then we would only need one version of her name.

Hey Rockist Scientist or someone, can you date/rate these two new eMusic acquisitions....?

http://www.emusic.com/album/Oum-Kalthoum-Oz-Kourini-MP3-Download/11174931.html

http://www.emusic.com/album/Oum-Kalthoum-Oud-Kourini-MP3-Download/11174968.html

or daterape

I think I have a copy of this first one, but I will have to check and get back to you once I'm at home.

These are good:

http://www.emusic.com/album/Oum-Kalthoum-Oum-Kalsoum-Arabian-Master-MP3-Download/10978902.html

I'm checking out Ozkourini now. I think I picked this up in one of the last batches of Oum Kalthoum CDs I bought, which I haven't listened to all that much. This didn't really stand out for me, but sometimes it takes me a while to get into particular recordings by the subject of this thread. There are some fine solo violin passages so far.

There was just a big "ALLAH!" from the audience which I didn't see coming, which means I'm not quite clicking with it. Usually when I really click with one of these performances, I know when the audience is about to flip out.

It's very dark and brooding (presumably, romantically), even by the standards of her repertoire.

The pace is finally picking up somewhat, but I'd have to say this is not something I'd recommend to someone who hasn't heard a bunch of her other music already.

I've never seen the movie clip for this song before. "Ha Ablou Bokra," one of my favorite relatively shorter songs from her career:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBSSnRQw3v0

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/10/AR2008081001801_pf.html

life at the Uum Kulthum cafe in Iraq

Devotees of the Sad, Beautiful Voice of Umm Kulthum

By Andrea Bruce
Washington Post Staff Photographer
Monday, August 11, 2008; A11

The cafe's dust-streaked sign is lost amid the chaos of old Baghdad. But a painted silhouette of a woman hangs above the entrance, signaling the way to an unlighted, soot-covered hallway stacked with broken generators.

Through the passage, street sounds fade and a woman's voice becomes clear. A reel-to-reel tape player is spinning the songs of the Egyptian singer Umm Kulthum. More than 30 years after her death, she is still probably the best-known and most beloved singer in the Middle East.

Several regulars -- well-dressed men who appear to be in their 50s -- sit on benches in the multitiered room known as the Umm Kulthum Cafe. They sip tea as they listen.

"Her voice is sweet," says Waheed A. Fatia, 61, who claims to have had an Umm Kulthum obsession since he was 10. "She has layers, a rich soprano. And she performs improvised, like American jazz."

Hookah pipes bubble, the fragrant smoke competing with the harsh, unfiltered cigarette smoke from the other side of the room, where men flip dominoes or softly move a rook into check. They play from midmorning to early evening, every day, to the sad, beautiful voice of Umm Kulthum. The cafe plays nothing else.

"No one obeys laws now, or has pride," Waheed says. "No security. No stability. But through all of this," he adds, looking around the cafe, "this is the same."

Less than a minute later, four young men wearing soccer jerseys and T-shirts emerge from the hallway and approach the cafe manager. They are members of the Sons of Iraq, former insurgents now allied with U.S. forces, here to collect the monthly "protection" fee of 15,000 Iraqi dinars -- about $12.

"This used to be a good street. With a bus stop, nightlife," says Jehad el-Obeiedi, 70, a retired movie director. "They called it 'the city of singing.' There was a famous nightclub next door."

From age-blackened paintings and framed black-and-white photos, Umm Kulthum looks down over her fans from every wall of the cafe while they hum her songs.

"We listen to her every day," Obeiedi says, "as if listening to it for the first time."

Washington Post photographer Andrea Bruce is documenting the lives of people in Iraq in a feature, Unseen Iraq, appearing regularly in the World pages. For a photo gallery and previous columns, visit http://blog.washingtonpost.com/unseen-iraq.

Still the best.

I think there might be a tribute to her coming up as part of the February and March Arabic Music events coming to the Kennedy Center in DC

Oum Kalthoum rehearsing a song she never formally recorded or publically performed:

rockist can you send something our way? post a link on yousendit perhaps? I'm very interested to hear some more of her if possible.

My access to the internet is kind of limited at the moment (no dsl at home), so if I do it, it won't be real soon..

Also they are using a two year old version of Explorer in the library here making it hard for me to proof my posts, thanks to the way they display. I think I need to ask about updating that again.

Moka check your e-mail (& continue checking).

Okay I'm already finished. I forgot just how easy everything has become. (Connection speeds here are usually really slow though, but that didn't seem to have an impact in this case.)

There's some nice ol black & white footage of her with Youssou N'Dour talking about growing up listening to her, in the new Youssou N''Dour movie doc I recently saw that focussed on the making and promotion of his Egypt album.

this is prob my favorite thread title ever

How is it possible that there is footage of her talking to Youssou N'Dour? She died in 1975. But now on checking Youssou N'Dour's bio I see that he started singing when he was 12 and was already a big hit in the early 70s, so I suppose it's not impossible. I will have to look for this.

No, that's not what I meant-- I left out a comma and phrased that poorly. Youssou is shown in the documentary talking about Oum and the movie cuts away to a black and white film clip of Oum. Youssou talks about listening to Oum on the radio as a kid.

noone but rockist scientist is likely to care, but laure daccache died in 2005. i hadn't known.

http://www.jetsetmagazine.net/culture/revue,presse/laure-daccache-une-figure-mythique-de-la-belle-epoque.21.92.html

Actually, I put that on this thread:

Arabic music (not elsewhere classified)

You must have missed it.

And by the way, this guy has an amazing youtube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/theconsultantgary

holy shit. wish i could read arabic so i know what the different videos are!

I finally bought Ansak and it turns out that (1) it's great (so far) and (2) I already know the basic outline of the song from a George Wassouf Reader's Digest condensed version. It's got this one little hook that I have always loved. I think I need to rate Baligh Hamdi a little more highly than I have lately. (On the other hand, I think he probably ended up writing too much and maybe taking too many drugs. But with Oum Kalthoum, anyone doing compositions for her gets filtered through a serious quality control mechanism.)

The volume is a little low on this clip, but it's worth it for the crazy audience:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eRJrzqAVtw

(Once again, I wish my mom had lived long enough for me to get her into Oum Kalthoum. I know she would have loved her.)

Give me my freedom, set free my hands!
--Al-Atkal

(errata: Al-Atlal)

You cannot get what you want in this world by wishing; you must take it by force
--"Salû Qalbî"

I think what comes across the most in this interview is simply her control, especially her control of her image. She definitely doesn't seem like the easiest interviewee:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzhPQBuLER4

This slays:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v1FJbKrT7Q

I think an excerpt from this is included in the documentary A Voice Like Egypt.

I think I don't have a recording of this song either.

"I put on music: Little Miss Train, a collaboration, Van Morrison duetting with Coirsa Yakov, the Besz Umm Kalsoum as he was called, on his 1987 tour."--from The City & the City, by China Mieville.

Spotify seems to have massively upgraded their Oum Kalthoum holdings, or at least the way they are presented. Hopefully they've caught some of the glitchy files as well. But at a glance it seems like there are more songs available now. If not, they are at least better organized.

Here's the live recording of Hazihi Leylati, which is inexplicably difficult to find:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sn-dcPjFs4

This is still probably my favorite Abdel Wahab songs sung by Oum Kalthoum.

Actually, this isn't even the same live version I have on cassette. Of course!

Less playful and inspired.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/02/islamists-drape-niqab-over-offensive-statue-of-famous-egyptian-singer/

Let the fundamentalist Islamists, or whatever they should be called, attempt to ban Umm Kulthum's music in Egypt, and we'll see how far they got. That is laugh out loud funny.

(That brief article needs some fact checking. I'm pretty sure Umm Kulthum did not appear in dozens of movies. Closer to a total of a half dozen. I wouldn't say she did anything to integrate western singing approaches with Arab ones either. Asmahan did more of that, during her brief career. Of course, many of Umm Kulthum's composers did integrate some aspects of western music, and she performed that music. But in terms of vocal technique, I think she was pretty purely within Arab tradition.)

I'm starting to think that those who claim the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt has been compromised and brought into power by the west are correct. Anyway, I'd be very surprised if there is a popular majority in Egypt in favor of this sort of extremism, even despite enormous frustration.

FWIW: 'CIA favors Brotherhood as Egypt dictatorship benefits US'

I don't remember exactly what he says here, but I find Engdahl generally comes well armed with facts. Of course, that doesn't mean he's right. (And there are facts and then there are "facts.")

I almost hope they will ban Umm Kulthum's music, because that would be a really quick way for the takfiris to end up with their throats slit overnight.

I really need to listen to more of this, enjoyed it greatly last time I checked her out.

Not really aware in enough depth to comment on the news article...

After the Revolution, they almost banned her for her close ties to the monarchy but Nasser said, "Are you crazy?! Do you want Egypt to turn against us?"

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Okay, I'm taking a new approach to creating a semi-comprehensive Oum Kalthoum playlist on Spotify. This could take a couple months. It depends how quickly I can get through all these early recordings that still sound like the Ottoman Empire to me (because I want to listen to every track I include, if only for audio issues). Hopefully, more to come.

Did anybody hear about this?

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2013/nov/25/american-jennifer-grout-arabs-got-talent-umm-kulthum

Thanks. I hadn't seen this, and she is an impressive singer, to me.

Baeed Anak:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY-E3w-nIB4

And here she is singing an Asmahan song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ4QFqTeFw8

Just a footnote, but an interesting one.

Thanks for all of this-- the Jennifer Grout stuff via Michael and your Spotify work

The Asmahan cover makes things more complicated since Asmahan herself borrowed from European classical vocal technique (at least partly self taught I think).

And despite a career cut short by an early death, Asmahan is one singer who actually deservers to be mentioned in the same breath as Oum Kalthoum.

https://31.media.tumblr.com/d2d7eb9fefdc84d6c66fd546090c2db6/tumblr_n19qlruIF41r8xa7zo1_400.jpg

My wife is Nagat's granddaughter. We lived in Cairo all last year and it was really amazing how celebrated Oum socially. 1 of every 5 cars was blasting her music, or more current artists from the 60s and 70s period, like Nagat. Even on the TV all the celebrated black and white movies, where a lot of these singers also acted, is dominating a dozen channels. The public really loves that period in Egyptian culture. My photo above is an Oum stencil that could be found on every block of the street.

There is now a crater on the planet Mercury named for her. https://carnegiescience.edu/news/mercury-crater-naming-contest-winners-announced

Yay!

Sorry I missed that message from the person with the Nagat connection. Definitely noteworthy.

Here is a late performance of Robaeyat el Khayam, at a much slower tempo than the more familiar earlier recording. At first I didn't care for that so much, but over time this realization goes to a lot of unique places:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URpJBt2kGYg

It does take a little while to get to the first passage with an intense tarab feel (at least in my listening), but it's worth it.

I'd say it starts to get more intense a little before the 20 minute mark.

This is closer to the style of her 40s and 50s performances than maybe any of her live recording I've heard from the 60's.

The kanunist does really crazy runs like I don't think I've ever heard in an Oum Kalthoum song. Would be overkill on a regular basis, but the novelty of it is enjoyable here.

All Robaiyat el Khayam all the time:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHckWlHwlzUReYcGSNTELthtzRKkIrGLv

Wish they would do a proper release of all of this live material, with English language information, but in the mean time this channel is amazing. I haven't even made my way through just the live variants for this one song.

I became a pretty big fan after reading this thread 7 or 8 years ago. I looked at a random tv show clip in black and white and abysmal sound and it pushed all my buttons, hairs standing on end. She's the real thing, no doubt.

I agree -- fucking hell it's hard to figure out what's what in her oeuvre! I've accumulated dozens of long-song mp3s and a few random cds over the years (the ones with the arabesque patterned artwork, must've been a series) and have a decent collection now but she remains a complete mystery! In a way that is part of the appeal but is still a little frustrating. I HATE the later era when the harmonium is introduced, but everything before that is pretty uniformly amazing as far as I can tell.

Still have no idea how to spell/pronounce her name! Some people I know had this stupid device where you talk to it and it finds the music you ask for and naturally, trying to stump it, I tried about 10 different Oum Kalthoum pronunciations and they all failed miserably.

If you have not read it, Virginia Danielson's Voice of Egypt provides a good orientation. Also, her dissertation (that the book is based on) includes an appendix which attempts to list all the songs Oum Kalthoum performed, with some basic information about them (lyricist/poet, composer, maqam, date of first performance).

But that Nizar Nasser channel takes it all to another level in terms of collecting live recordings. I just wish it had information in English.

I became a pretty big fan after reading this thread 7 or 8 years ago. I looked at a random tv show clip in black and white and abysmal sound and it pushed all my buttons, hairs standing on end. She's the real thing, no doubt.

Ha, this is my experience too. Knew nothing about her until this thread, still know pretty much nothing except that I love her.

She is really on fire early on, in this performance of Zikrayat that I've never heard before:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsHh1IdXfJ4

Control = Passion

The downtempo passage that starts about 30 minutes in.

!

Ana Fi Intazarak (not the one available as a commercial CD), with some very interesting discussion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoBPWgSOeck

(I mean, not the performance. Obviously it's the same song.)

http://www.nmwa.org/events/cultural-capital-homage-umm-kulthum

Special tribute concert and panel at the National Museum of women in the Arts in Washington DC July 10 from 3 to 5 pm

This Cultural Capital session honors Egyptian contralto singer and songwriter Umm Kulthum (ca. 1904–1975). Frequently referred to as the “Voice of Egypt” or the “Star of the East,” Kulthum remains an unprecedented icon of the Arab world. Her influence and image continue to resonate, inspiring musicians and artists alike.

The day features performances in Arabic from Kulthum’s beloved repertoire, and a moderated conversation about the social and political context in which Kulthum became the “Diva of Arabic Song,” during some of the most significant historical events in Egypt and the Arab World in the 20th century.

PERFORMERS & SPEAKERS
Huda Asfour, performer and composer
Lubana Al Quntar, soprano
Laura Lohman, associate professor of music, California State University, Fullerton
Hazami Sayed, executive director, Al-Bustan Seeds of Culture, Philadelphia
Lyne Sneige (moderator), director, Arts & Culture Program, Middle East Institute, Washington, D.C.
A reception will follow the performances and moderated conversations. Special tours of She Who Tells a Story: Women from Iran and the Arab World will be offered prior to the program starting at 2 p.m.

I've only really become aware of هو صحيح الهوى غلاب Howa (Huwa, Hoa, Howwa) Sahih (despite hearing excerpts from it ages ago), relatively recently. I read in a youtube comment that this was a piece written by Zakarya Ahmed ten years after his falling out with Oum Kalthoum. Confirmed here:

http://www.masress.com/en/ahramonline/62700

I knew she had successfully sued him for performing a song she had previously recorded, that he had written for her, but I don't remember being aware that they had ever reconciled. And then he died a year after he wrote this song, which has to be one of the best of her later career period.

(Not pretending to know Arabic, but using Arabic script is generally the most effective way to do title searches.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br8spJQxkHo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZExzpfxCiWQ

Had posted at least some of this song earlier in the thread, with an especially famous passage of improvisation ("Nazra," etc.) from one of her post-Six Day War concerts in North Africa.

I think this is the main recording and I think it's better than the two I just posted above, overall:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaVCd3XZWwE

Not sure who messed up at 46:11 in that 1968 performance. She seems to jump the gun though.

Wait. No. It's not just my imagination. Embedded youtube videos are getting bigger.

46:40 - Okay, she just shut me up with that.

And everything that has followed, so far.

(On further listening, I'll take this "68 version, but I think there may be a couple different early 60s versions floating around even on Spotify, unless I'm getting it mixed up with a different song.)

I didn't realize that Neal Cassady was a regular poster here. I just assumed he was someone just stopping in at this thread. I should really read the rolling post-Fahey etc. etc. thread since some of it would interest me.

I have several Nagat cassettes I used to listen to pretty regularly at one time (back when I listened to a lot of Warda).

More Howa Sahih (thanks to the great Nizar Nasser channel):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKMkKMVQltI

Not sure who messed up at 46:11 in that 1968 performance. She seems to jump the gun though.

On further listening, I think what happens is that she decides to switch directions at the last minute and the accompaniment doesn't follow it. Based on what follows, it seems that she had gotten an inspiration. It is quite abrupt though.

needed to be a poll

A poll for me alone.

I strongly suspect this Nizar Nasser who has a youtube channel full of Oum Kalthoum recordings is a descendant of Gamal Abdel Nasser, which would explain his access to so many rare recordings.

Sounds like a good guess.

I'm not surprised that there are so many great performances of her songs, but I'm a little surprised by how many of the 60s performances hark back to the her more tarab-oriented 40s and 50s approach. Hearing her 60s versions of older songs actually increases my esteem for her, if that's possible. As I've often said, overall I have less use for her 60s (especially mid-to-late) and 70s songs, but now her 60s career is more fully fleshed out by live recordings.

Less than fabulous audio, but a great performance of Sahran Lewahdi, different from the one on CD:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFghqvijPPw

I like much of what I hear here, but I haven't found the time to really listen a lot. Thanks for doing the heavy lifting.

I don't know if I'm doing any heavy lifting, but glad you find it useful.

I don't think I've ever heard anything like this before. It appears to be one concert where she sings three different songs back to back (more or less). I think she introduces the last song as well, but I'm not sure. I am not that confident of recognizing her speaking voice. Two of my favorite songs included.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXsP_Kk9Hpk

I plan on finally trying to listen to a list of (more or less) all her songs, which should be possible between Spotify and youtube. However, a lot has gone missing from Spotify. I don't know how much of it was just duplicate copies of things, but I think some of it might not have been.

(I do take breaks from listening to her. The heaviness can be too much after a certain point. I've tried listening to different version of Sahran Lewahdi back to back and it's just too much wailing for me at one sitting, to be honest.)

I don't think I've ever heard her introduce a song before, if that's what's happening before the third track (Ana Fi Intazark), in the video above. This makes me want to hear more from the mid-40s. The concert sounds quite intimate compared to what came later, though maybe not more than others I've heard from this time-frame.

Another fine ياظالمني (Ya Zalamny), such a great piece:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pB4cFbJ3UE

Segment of the very upbeat film song Ghannili Sheway Sheway, apparently with audience sing-along, unless she had a chorus with her for this song, but seems like an audience thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfFaMeMfd-s

Please ban from the internet the person leaving one thumbs down on a lot of these videos.

Terrific photo of Oum Kalthoum with Fairouz

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/e5/1b/4a/e51b4a852c0458ad80039d8a8a6e43f1.jpg

Have not linked to this lately (or possibly ever). A "reasonably complete" list of her songs:

http://almashriq.hiof.no/egypt/700/780/umKoulthoum/Songs/

I think this is the same as what's in an appendix of Virginia Louise Danielson's thesis.

Another performance of Ya Zalamni. It's such a privilege to hear how she varied the performance for some of these songs from concert to concert. Much of her improvising here goes in very different directions than the main recording I'm familir with:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MbOBC5eggc

It looks like I have somehow never mentioned Awedt Einy on this thread, unless I gave it some sort of spelling I can't currently remember. Just bookmarked a search on recordings of this song which is somewhat similar to Ya Zalamni (and came out at around the same time I think). So far, so good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2QcRYmLzEk

Just amazing to be able to hear all of this.

(I've never said it before but Oum Kalthoum's kanunist looks like a character actor.)

Instrumental jazz cover of Baligh Hamdi's Alf Layla Wa Layla (late career Oum Kalthoum song) that I missed last year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUa_srT-uL8

I miss the extremely varied orchestration of the original. One of the enjoyable things about late period Oum Kalthoum songs is that they tend to have a wide sound palate in performance, so you get some electric gutiar, some accordion, some saxophone, etc. along with the core of her orchestra.

The original:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul4z6sLnXYY

Sorry but not finding the Maalouf too exciting.

I also really like the emphatic quality of the strings on the Oum Kalthoum Alf Lyla recording (I was thinking "strident" but then I listened again and it's not quite strident). And the bent notes on electric guitar, few though they are.

You watnt to do a contemporary instrumental of a Baligh Hamdi song? Maybe you should try some sort of maximalist electric and electronic approach. (Not that there aren't some good melodies that can be worked with in a fairly straight form, but I think maybe the emphasis should be on worked with, rather than just following the way the songs play out when sung.)

جددت حبك ليه / Gadedt Hobak Leh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1aTQHWoT98

This kind of goes on and on but it's wonderful. In recordings from this time period, the sound of her voice as such is often enough to keep me absorbed. I think my CD copy of a version of it has a transliteration that includes an unpronounceably consonant-laden initial word.

Fun concert footage of Howwa Sahih, partly for all the audience shots. I'm guessing this is an Egyptian audience because while they are certainly engaged, they also seem kind of relaxed, not like the over the top audiences she often had when she toured other countries.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZIq9bcmhEc

The oudist sitting behind her is Mohamed El Qasabji, who composed so many of her early songs, but stayed with her orchestra well past the point he was still writing for her.

It's also a pretty straight delivery of a song she can be heard to play around with a lot more in other recordings I linked to above. It seems like there is a little more emphasis here on delivering the text, and less focus on tarab, to the extent I can make that sort of judgment without even being able to understand the words.

(And I wanted to go to bed early but I might just stay up and listen to the rest of this.)

Well, this is good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIo_N8KIZec

This looks like it's a playlist entirely devoted to Ya Zalamny but I haven't heard most of it yet. Paradise on earth. If I saw it before, why has it taken me this long to get to it.

Woo Hoo!

The fourth performance on that playlist has some phenomenal instrumental soloing toward the end. It's great to hear some of the key accompanists stretch out more than they often have the chance to do. The concert ends up feeling very distinctive. Crowd is completely nuts.

The oudist almost never takes solos, and here he is laying down this amazing takasim.

Needles to say, she had nothing but the best musicians in her orchestra, especially in lead roles.

This fifth performance, she is messing with the audience's head early on. I think she's working in an unexpected modulation to a different maqam, but not even during an unmetered section where improvisation is more expected. Really interesting stuff. I wasn't as taken with the second and third performances on this playlist.

This is fantastic.

25:51

!!!

LOL.

https://www.google.com/search?q=oum+kalthoum+audience+member+kiss+feet&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiVw5nlzcLRAhUCrVQKHfXmCbMQ_AUICSgC&biw=960&bih=438#imgrc=K1TZ0hXMwa8n5M%3A

I don't know if this excerpt is from a concert posted in complete form elsewhere. It's hard to explain why some of this is so amazing. If you aren't familiar with the song (I'm still listening through the Ya Zalamny playlist linked to above), it would probably be more difficult to hear it. The pauses/breaks are quite distinctive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4ftMOWvmCg

Sahran Lewahdi with what I guess are shortwave radio (or some kind of radio) noises mixed in here and there!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkKmsxVznxw

Ney solo + woooOOOOoooo of scifi radio bubble sounds.

Good performance too.

Good entry point for fans of early electronic music.

ولد الهدى Woleda el Hoda (Oulida el Hoda)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVexui3SAJE

Powerful.

I noticed that in some of the 50s recordings, the percussion jumps out, at least at times, more than in later recordings. I like it. It might particularly be drew of the religiously-themed material (like the song above).

I don't understand why there aren't more performances of "Habibi Yes`ed Awqatu" (حبيبى يسعد اوقاته). I think that is one of her greatest songs. It's one of the first ones I really liked. The Palestinian who helped me get oriented in Arabic music was surprised that I singled that one out, as he said he had only recently come to appreciate it (and perhaps music by Zakaria Ahmed from that era in general).

Haven't finished with this, but so far it's yet another extraordinary performance of Robaeyat El Khayam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtQkhWtBeog

Like the lines are different channels she is switching between, always on, but only heard one at a time.

I somehow forgot about the Robaeyat El Khayam playlist (on Nizar Nasser's channel) before. This is high priority hear-before-I-die material.

Studio version of Robaeyat el Khayam. I've never heard this before:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j7GnVEiJg8

Relationship of accompaniment to vocal line is quite different in places. 22:25-22:40. Those heavy flourishes from the accompaniment. Sounds odd to me. Anyway, I've never noticed any live versions that stick to that. Maybe it's there and I just haven't noticed. But it almost has to be more subtle if it hasn't jumped out in the same way, so it would still be different to a degree.

Odd how there is a slow instrumental conclusion to the performance. In live performance the real ending is always with her last climactic vocal closure.

A very strong Shams El Aseel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DPcKB0TKx0

One of the best songs written for her in the 60s, Aqolak Eh An El Shouq:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwzuiAM_L_w

Longer than the standard recording, and I'm pretty sure it's from a different concert. Some of the ornamentation on the lead violin's lines in the beginning isn't there in this one, if I'm not mistaken. I should know for sure, but it's not something I've listened to all that recently.

Takes her accompaniment a long time to realize she is going to repeat the verses she just sang, rather than move on, at: 5:47. Maybe her kanunist missed a cue.

"Ela Arafat Allah," in a similar style as Nahj el Borda and Oulida al Hoda:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0agcHiUkU4

Youtube is placing an add in the middle. Man, is that annoying. I am hoping that will go away if I play as embedded video.

"Ela Arafat Allah" is so good.

Kinda bugs me, that with her deserved fame, her name is still "mother of Kalthoum". Her birthname, btw, is Fātimah ʾIbrāhīm as-Sayyid al-Biltāǧī.

I guess you know that Umm Kulthum was one of the companions of the Prophet, so it's got a certain cachet in that cultural context.

I don't know the history of how the subject of this thread ended up with that name though. I don't remember if I've ever read an explanation.

I can also see how the name's background doesn't necessarily make it any less annoying that her name is mother of somebody or other.

40s and 50s songs are generally so much better. There are a few exceptions, but really just a few as far as I'm concerned. *eating a handful of Ajwa dates*

I love that Spotify has a bunch of her "singles" in chronological order now. There are some difficult songs with difficult titles that I've always had trouble keeping track of. This helps.

I mean, a lot of the later material has fantastic and memorable melodies but the songs don't work as well as vehicles for her singing.

"taking a [vocal] line out for a walk"

Another Saturday with El Sett, coming later, once I'm more awake.

If the single-digit humidity doesn't kill me.

I made an Oum Kalthoum playlist. Nothing special, just my favorite songs as available on Spotify. (There are some crucial, commercially available live recordings missing from Spotify.)

https://open.spotify.com/user/rudipherousoxide/playlist/57PCJ9HMDzgJ4YnVb6yYHb

I actually feel guilty it's so short, but I was being very selective. I might add some later songs eventually. If they had a good live Hazihi Leylati. . . Or maybe if they had the studio Inta Omri. . . The beginning of Baid Anak is stunning, but I do think it goes on too long, with too many audience-demanded repetitions of sections that don't actually help.

I haven't watched this yet, but the introduction alone is mind-blowing. Nasser arrives with his security detail/entourage, at one point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md0utlaK6Gs

Domtek is either a great new channel or one I had missed previously.

I don't really love Amal Hayati though.

A very fast-tempoed Howwa Sahih that I don't think I've heard before. Definitely have not seen before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReVC__gtU-M

That's more like it.

(Abdel Wahab songs so overrated. Sorry to be a broken record.)

I think Oum Kalthoum audiences might be my favorite audience. Another Nasser siting at the end of the video above, incidentally. Unfortunately, there's a glitch in the middle and the sound drops out.

Also, the seriousness of the announcers is great.

Howwa Sahih really has Zakariya Ahmed written all over it.

Patience has its limits, indeed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwJQV_smUwM

Have we realized yet how perfect this is?

Did not realize till the other night that there’s a song in the Tony Award winning musical, The Band’s Visit, called “”Oum Kulthum and Omar Sharif.” One of the stars of the show who sang it on the Tonys, gave a shoutout when she won an award, to the late Kulthum.

Anyone seen 'Looking for Oum Kulthum'? I wasn't that big of a fan, Shirin Neshat makes it into a meta-movie that is to a large part about herself, but the recreations of scenes from Kulthums career are really good.

Haven’t seen it.

Hello Rudipherous and anyone else who can be of help.

I've got a note that I should start investigating Umm Kulthum at this point, but not sure where to start. What I need is a reasonably-sized (say 2CD) retrospective covering her whole recording career, and (very important!) dates of recording for each track. Does such a thing exist?

I missed Frederik asking who else had seen the film, but I didn't like it very much either for the same meta reasons as he did. An actual biography would have been nice.

From what I remember, trying to find decent cds is a total crapshoot if not outright impossible not knowing arabic. I ended up buying MP3s and finding random downloads mostly for my collection, which by the time I gave up searching ran about 12-15 acceptable recordings which deliver the goods (and I think 3 of them I have on cd, all excellent, and all by the same label with colorful arabesque artwork and no liner notes or recording info.) I still listen to her sometimes, her work remains interesting over time. IMO the sweet spot is any given live recording from 1950s through maybe mid-60s that runs 30-50 minutes. That stuff is invariably sublime though also invariably lo fi. Later recordings from the 70s are slicker and sound really good and hi fi but are completely ruined for this somewhat discerning listener by goofy sounding harmonium and sometimes electric surf-guitar sounding oud (or some kind of twangy electric stringed non-guitar anyway). The surf-oud and harmonium isn't part of the sonic equation earlier thankfully!!! The mid-period (I guess) longform live stuff I dig is all violins/cellos and percussion, and thoroughly righteous.

Early period for me is the studio stuff, very short tunes for 45rpm of little interest, and later would be the gross harmonium live recordings.

Thanks for the tips Liam, and

my collection, which by the time I gave up searching ran about 12-15 acceptable recordings which deliver the goods

Sure, check back here in a day or so. If you want I'll try to email you all of them as onedrive links. They're all different tunes, each performance its own long mp3, and I think all essentially radio bootlegs anyway because that's how this stuff was originally disseminated.

I just searched Oum Kalthoum blog and re-found the first tune/download of hers I listened to extensively, Esal Rouhak, and the download link is still active somehow! It's a pretty awesome performance and tune, and the rest I treasure are along these lines, so give it a shot:

http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2006/12/02/esal-rouhak/

That would be brilliant, thanks!

Checking this one out now - this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umm_Kulthum#Selected_discography - says it's from 1970, which is very late indeed.

Listened to this last night, really good thanks, I didn't realise the length of the tracks was because each one was like an album and with so much drama and variety.

The previous thing I had was a 1924 recording which isn't really up to scratch, even for 1924, so good to get it now.

Cool, you're welcome! Yeah, I guess that's what I mean by the goods; the songs when she was exclusively a live performer are all like miniature operas or something, long sonic tapestries that unfold and develop one or two simple ideas. There's always some really neat musical motives that gets put through a ton of variations and which she ornaments and illuminates with her voice. She's kind of a force of nature, really!

I just sent an email to the address connected to your profile with a onedrive download link to a folder with all the ones I have, including the later ones which I dislike solely because of some questionable instrumentation choices. As for the later ones, the tunes are still good, and the quality isn't hazy at all, it's very crisp/clear. You might dig them more than me, so!

Thought of this thread tonight as I saw the play “The Band’s Visit” and the Israeli woman cafe owner sang a song called “Oum Kalthoum and Omar Sharif” and she and the Alexandria, Egypt Band leader quoted Sharif movie lines. The cafe owner mentioned grownup and hearing Kalthoum songs on the radio

Growing up

My knowledge of Oum Kathoum music remains very superficial. Need to remedy that sometime

Anyone know anything about this upcoming batch of LPs? Dunno if I'm in a position to buy them all, but they look pretty tempting:

https://lightintheattic.net/releases/8965-alf-leila-wa-leila
https://lightintheattic.net/releases/8966-el-hob-kollo
https://lightintheattic.net/releases/8967-enta-omri
https://lightintheattic.net/releases/8968-laylat-hob

https://soundcloud.com/wexnercenter/esra-canogullari-8ulentinaand-lara-sarkissian-umm-al-atlal

UMM / AL ATLAL is a collaborative sound piece composed by Esra Canoğulları and Lara Sarkissian. This hour-long piece deconstructs and abstracts a live performance of Umm Kulthum's song Al Atlal. Umm Kultum was known for live performances that lasted hours, with individual songs lasting up to an hour each, the crowd participation playing an essential role in these durational and enchanting live shows. UMM / AL ATLAL takes a similar approach to abstraction as Sahar’s sculptural radio tower- isolating and embedding individual lyrics while reinterpreting their form. The collaborative nature of this sound sculpture is our contemporary version of the audience call and response participation that is present in all of Umm Kulthum’s live performances.

Esra Canoğulları (8ULENTINA)and Lara Sarkissian: UMM / AL ATLAL By wexnercenter is licensed under a Creative Commons License.

piece goes along with this exhibit- https://wexarts.org/exhibitions/sahar-khoury-umm