I don't like Turkish music, or do I?

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I've never really liked most of the Turkish music I've heard, and have sold off or tried to sell off some of the CDs I have. I have at times liked the instrumental passages in Turkish music, but even so, my overall impression has not been favorable.

However, I am just now checking out a CD someone loaned me: "Gazel: Classical Sufi Music of the Ottoman Empire," and this is a different matter. The vocals here are much closer to the style of Qur'anic recitation, closer then to Arabic singing. This is by far the most appealing Turkish singing I've heard. Since I am enjoying the vocals, I can also more fully enjoy the instrumental background, particularly the gorgeous ney and kanun playing, performed by the Kudis Erguner Ensemble, which appears on one or two CDs I've put up for sale.

DeRayMi, Thursday, 5 September 2002 00:17 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I'm surprised you hadn't been more taken already with Erguner's playing. I really like the disc he recorded on CMP -- can't remember the name. Do you have/have you heard his Preludes to Ceremonies of Whirling Dervishes on the JVC label?

Phil (phil), Thursday, 5 September 2002 01:43 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

It's generally the vocals that kill it for me. I had Vocal Masterpieces of Kemani Tatyos Efendi, on Traditional Crossroads, but sold it. I also have a CMP release on which Nesrin Siphai sings, which I like somewhat better, but will probably also sell, since I've had it long enough that I'm pretty sure it's not going to suddenly grow on me. I don't have the title you mention. I'd be interested in hearing anything all instrumental by them, or anything featuring the sort of vocals that are on this CD I listened to tonight (featuring Yusuf Bilgin, Fevzi Misir, and Aziz Bahriyeli), which is also on CMP, incidentally.

DeRayMi, Thursday, 5 September 2002 01:51 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Oh, do try some of Ilhan Mimaroglu's magnificent electronic / music concrete instead like 'Wings of the Delerious Demon' - one of the great electronic releases of the last century.

phil turnbull (philT), Thursday, 5 September 2002 03:52 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

do try some of Ilhan Mimaroglu's magnificent electronic / music concrete instead

Why? I'm really not very interested in electronic music at the moment. I listened to lots and lots of it (along with other types of music) for around ten years, and it's not something I am drawn to at the moment, though I would like to revisit it eventualy. What else can you tell me about this piece?

DeRayMi, Thursday, 5 September 2002 11:02 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

The Erguner Ensemble is pretty much top-drawer, at least among modern ensembles I've heard. Kudsi's brother Suleyman put out a disc of solo ney a few years back that's pretty nice as well.

That said, it sounds like you might want to investigate Turkish Rom or "gypsy" music. CMP put out a pretty nice disc of Turkish Rom stuff called Tzigane by the Erkose Ensemble--I think it might be out of print, but I still see it second-hand now and then. It's very much a studio recording, but it's a little less dolorous, a little more peppery than the more courtly Turkish repertoire. I like that Siphai disc too, but I like Tzigane more. (I should point out before I go any further that I am a total amateur going on bits and pieces of info and listening I've picked up during a trip to Turkey and on my own.)

Even better, the Traditional Crossroads label (same one that did those Udi Hrant and Udi Yorgo Bacanos sets a few years back) put out a great disc called Sulukule: Rom Music of Istanbul that is just plain hot. It's a reissue of an old cassette-tape release from the '70s, as I understand it, and it's basically party music--lots of speedy tempos, chanted female vocals (most often about love and/or getting drunk), and plenty of fiery violin and kanun interplay during the long instrumental breaks. The kanun player keeps doing this thing that surely must be the Turkish equivalent of the heavy-metal guitarist pick slide. Madness. And the whole thing is swaddled in that deep reverb that producers from the region so love, which only makes it sound more exciting somehow.

In fact, TC has put out lots of great Turkish discs. In addition to Sulukule and the archival stuff they're known for, they did a very nice solo kanun disc from Goksel Kartal and a recent disc of Rom music from nearby Thrace performed by Selim Sesler--also pretty lively, hard-hitting stuff, albeit better behaved than Sulukule.

Lee G, Thursday, 5 September 2002 11:34 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Sorry to sound so fussy, but I haven't heard much Rom music that I have really liked, and I'm pretty sure I've heard some of the Turkish variety. However, I probably haven't heard the specific recordings you list.

"Sulukule" in particular sounds interesting. I heard that solo kanun recording and found it a bit dry or something. I tend to prefer the Arab approach to kanun playing (not that I can define what that is), I think, though I did like the kanun on this "Gazel" CD. "Gazel" is actually very stately, and in some sense so are the vocals, but as I said, they are close to Qur'anic recitation, which I generally like.

Udi Hrant I enjoy, if I am in the right mood, but I prefer the way, say, the Egyptian Riad el Sounbatti handles the oud. (Or Mohammed el-Qassabji in the backgroound on the Oum Kalthoum song "Ana fe Intazarak"! The last 20 minutes they just go out. Not "out" compared to free jazz, but definitely out in some sense.

DeRayMi, Thursday, 5 September 2002 11:51 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Ghazals are grate! If you hear in person you should rear up from your seat like a madman and shower $$ upon the performers. Now why don't they do that in rawk?

Mary (Mary), Thursday, 5 September 2002 20:17 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

(yes always claimed to be big on mimaroglu)

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 5 September 2002 20:23 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Who's mimaroglu mark?

Showering money: yes, I once made the same mistake I have seen others make in a certain middle eastern restaurant in Philadelphia: helpfully picking money up off the floor, when it's being left there for the belly dancer.

When I saw Syrian pop star (somewhat fallen out of favor, I think) George Wassouf perform in Atlantic City, some audience members showered him with money.

DeRayMi, Thursday, 5 September 2002 20:29 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

he just got mentioned upthread, the electronic music guy: that's really all i know about him (so i said it)

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 5 September 2002 20:39 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

How quickly I forgot. I thought it was some sort of singer of gazels or gazals. If Mimaroglu is a Turkish musique concrete composer name-dropped by Yes, then maybe I will look into him after all.

DeRayMi, Thursday, 5 September 2002 20:51 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

three years pass...
The oud and ney installments of Kalan's Masters of Turkish Music look tempting to me:

http://www.kalan.com/english/scripts/album/searchresult.asp?rn=45,5868

Turk I. Turk, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 18:11 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Awesome, a ney player is called a neyzen.

N Z, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 18:14 (twelve years ago) Permalink

seven months pass...
http://www.uikionlus.com/mp3/Aynur/

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Sunday, 11 June 2006 01:24 (twelve years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

oh wow just found the Edip Akbayram reissue on Shadoks, this is great stuff. Anything else like it I should check out?

rizzx, Saturday, 3 May 2008 15:58 (ten years ago) Permalink

there's another akbayram cd (edip akbayram & dostlar) - i know some of the songs crossover, but i think the performances are different.

and of course erkin koray, selda, fikret kizilok, 3 hur-el, bunalimlar, etc., are all recommended. all different, though, edip had a pretty distinct combination of miserableness and funk.

GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ, Sunday, 4 May 2008 09:25 (ten years ago) Permalink

you cant beat Baris K's 2 Turkish Cosmic mixes.

find them on the intertubes.

Hamildan, Monday, 5 May 2008 08:31 (ten years ago) Permalink

three months pass...
two months pass...

New Baris K mix, the 3rd and final part.

http://etrafta.com/2008/09/23/baris-ks-eurasia-mix-part-iii-turk-kozmik-space-masters/

Mmmmmm thats good Turkish......

Hamildan, Monday, 24 November 2008 16:53 (nine years ago) Permalink

SELDA

nikefanatic90: Sup (Z S), Monday, 24 November 2008 17:03 (nine years ago) Permalink

is that the same eurasia: part 3 that was on beats in space a few weeks ago?

psychgawsple, Monday, 24 November 2008 20:34 (nine years ago) Permalink

Yeah I think so, I didn't listen to the BiS mix, the Etrafta blog has some other mixes etc on it.

Yeah, Selda is the good stuff too.

Hamildan, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 12:58 (nine years ago) Permalink

one month passes...

ERKIN KORAY

"80s Baby" (Z S), Thursday, 8 January 2009 03:51 (nine years ago) Permalink

Srsly though, Electronic Turkuler, and specifically "Cemalim", is making the socks fly off of my feet.

"80s Baby" (Z S), Thursday, 8 January 2009 03:52 (nine years ago) Permalink

Whoa, there's a youtube video!!!

"80s Baby" (Z S), Thursday, 8 January 2009 03:53 (nine years ago) Permalink

There is sooooooo much Ottoman-era classical music, it's bonkers. And so much of it is so great.

ian, Thursday, 8 January 2009 05:34 (nine years ago) Permalink

six months pass...

This is the best mix I've heard in AGES:

http://etrafta.com/2008/09/23/baris-ks-eurasia-mix-part-iii-turk-kozmik-space-masters/

I seem to have Baris K's mix I and now mix III - was there a mix II and how can I get it?

Also, to repeat - yes - SELDA - I thought Elvis Telecom and I were the only Selda freaks on this board.

I'm contemplating starting a course in Turkish at SOAS in order to be able to understand the lyrics, it's just so amazing and so passionate, I want to understand what she is saying, beyond looking up the occasional misheard lyric in the dictionary.

Your Mother Smells Of Elderflower (Masonic Boom), Saturday, 25 July 2009 08:28 (eight years ago) Permalink

I really recommend a record by Bulent Ortacgil called "Benimle Oynar misin". He's sometimes called the Turkish Nick Drake, and it's not far from being true. Beautiful melancholic pastoral pop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hO2j8lFaGi8

J4mi3 H4rl3y (Snowballing), Saturday, 25 July 2009 08:44 (eight years ago) Permalink

No, not really feeling the Bulent Ortacgil track. I don't like sensitive singer-songwriter types in English, why would I like them in Turkish?

Cemalim up there ^^^^^^^ is great. I have some Erkin Koray, but don't have that track or that album, will have to dig around and try to find.

Your Mother Smells Of Elderflower (Masonic Boom), Saturday, 25 July 2009 08:50 (eight years ago) Permalink

the 2nd side of that album (elektronik turkuler) is pretty amazing, has cemalim and turku, which is an epic, dark thing. also highly recommend his 4th album "tutkusu," backs away from the orchestral stuff he tried on "2" and just kicks out the jams.

dim samosa... lost samosa (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Saturday, 25 July 2009 14:20 (eight years ago) Permalink

Afacan Soundsystem playing that Turkish Psyche on Beats in Space.

http://www.beatsinspace.net/playlists/475

my opinionation (Hamildan), Saturday, 25 July 2009 16:06 (eight years ago) Permalink

I have decided that it's all about Hele Hele Yar which makes me bounce about like a demented feret.

Your Mother Smells Of Elderflower (Masonic Boom), Monday, 27 July 2009 09:52 (eight years ago) Permalink

I have (or had) a Turkish brother-in-law, we used to all live together in a house-share.

But, long gone. So, can't help, bit of a shame...

Mark G, Monday, 27 July 2009 09:57 (eight years ago) Permalink

Then again, I wonder if perhaps the not understand is part of the appeal. When Erkin Koray chants "BIZIM DOSTLAR" over and over again, it sounds like it should be something profound and amazing and dripping with meaning.

Which would be kind of lost if he was actually reciting "children brush your teeth" or something. Not that I think that's what he's saying (or that what he is actually saying is *that* profound) but maybe part of the beauty would be lost.

Your Mother Smells Of Elderflower (Masonic Boom), Monday, 27 July 2009 10:06 (eight years ago) Permalink

His tastes, for the most part, were modern, naturally (i.e. Prince, The Times (as in the bunch from Purple Rain film, not Ed Ball), oh and one time bought a Cure album because he loved "Lullabye", only to find the rest was nothing like it..

Oh, and one strange CD of music that whirling dervishes would meditate to, just before going into a whirl. Each track about 20 mins long, plinkyplonky, slow, etc. Quite interesting..

Mark G, Monday, 27 July 2009 10:10 (eight years ago) Permalink

It makes me feel really stupid that I didn't know that 3 Hur-El was a pun.

Your Mother Smells Of Elderflower (Masonic Boom), Monday, 27 July 2009 10:56 (eight years ago) Permalink

I have this Turkish friend who's a big Anadolu pop fanatic, literally worshipping artists like Cem Karaca, Baris Manco and Koray. The most impressive thing is how deeply he feels about this music, how much it means for him in terms of cultural belonging.

Marco Damiani, Monday, 27 July 2009 13:21 (eight years ago) Permalink

is this baris k's mix II?
http://www.beatsinspace.net/playlists/433

and what's the 3 hur-el pun?

jaxon, Monday, 27 July 2009 15:40 (eight years ago) Permalink

Right, I googled.

They are three brothers with the name Hurel. Omlettes on the u.

Mark G, Monday, 27 July 2009 15:42 (eight years ago) Permalink

In Turkish, hür = "free" & el = "people/tribe"

so it's like a pun on their surname. 3 Free People as well as 3 Hürel brothers.

Not much of a pun, I know, but, erm.

Not sure if that's mix I or II - the song titles look familiar, but that might be because I've been listening to so much of this stuff.

Your Mother Smells Of Elderflower (Masonic Boom), Monday, 27 July 2009 15:56 (eight years ago) Permalink

i've been listening to 3 hur-el for like ten years now, i had no idea. I LEARNED SOMETHING!

dim samosa... lost samosa (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Monday, 27 July 2009 16:55 (eight years ago) Permalink

yay! So trying to learn Turkish has actually been good for something - apart from the haggling for elektrosazzes I am expecting to have to do in Istanbul.

Your Mother Smells Of Elderflower (Masonic Boom), Monday, 27 July 2009 16:57 (eight years ago) Permalink

one month passes...

ERKIN KORAY ERKIN KORAY ERKIN KORAY

He is so awesome words cannot express it.

Evren Kader (Masonic Boom), Thursday, 10 September 2009 10:55 (eight years ago) Permalink

Seconding Rocket Scientist's praise for Aynur Doğan (aka just Aynur) a few years back. I discovered her through the Crossing the Bridge documentary a few years ago. Technically Kurdish music, but by an Istanbul artist and her ensemble. The albums Keçe Kurdan (2004) and Nûpel (2005) are findable online.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gac33Zdaiwk

Fraught with conscience. (Derelict), Thursday, 10 September 2009 15:39 (eight years ago) Permalink

On the offbeat side, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Baba Zula, a self-described "Turkish psychebelly" band, produced by dubmeister Mad Professor. YMMV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq7erqOtNcc

Fraught with conscience. (Derelict), Thursday, 10 September 2009 15:45 (eight years ago) Permalink

Ha ha, I actually have some Baba Zula on a compilation of contemporary Turkish dance music - a song called Zaniye Oyun Havasi (which I think is actually better than the clip there.)

Evren Kader (Masonic Boom), Thursday, 10 September 2009 16:04 (eight years ago) Permalink

Regrettable lad's magazine cover aside, I thought this widely available dance comp was pretty good (probably the best of this Petrol label series):

http://www.petrolexotic.com/catalog/thumbnail.php?img=images/SCM_istanbul_cover.jpg

missing fingertip (Derelict), Thursday, 10 September 2009 16:53 (eight years ago) Permalink

Oh dear. This is one of the ones I got:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51vmHeRapsL._SL500_AA240_.jpg

Been slowly trying to make my way through the back catalogue of the artists I liked. Thing is the one I liked best (Harem) went back and forth between amazing darjouka jams and frankly regrettable trance remixes with an annoying girl squeaking "watch me belly dance!!!" in between orgasm noises. Um, no.

Evren Kader (Masonic Boom), Thursday, 10 September 2009 17:03 (eight years ago) Permalink

Selda is the truth! Her 1976 release is an instant classic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1GRirCTLQ0

Spinspin Sugah, Sunday, 13 September 2009 18:51 (eight years ago) Permalink

http://eardrummer.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/ersen-portrait.jpg

Finders Keepers do a pretty good comp of this guy's stuff. Ersen.

Doran, Sunday, 13 September 2009 20:39 (eight years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I have that Ersen comp. It's really great stuff.

But still... I don't love him quite as much as I love Erkin Koray. Elektronik Turkuler really is just something so incredibly special.

Also - to reiterate. SELDA. Oh yes.

girls just wanna have mixtapes (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 13 September 2009 21:11 (eight years ago) Permalink

I'm going to have to try harder with these, aren't I?

Mark G, Sunday, 13 September 2009 21:45 (eight years ago) Permalink

BUNALIM(/BUNALIMLAR/GRUP BUNALIM), dudes.

and if you like ersen, the sakir oner gunhan link i posted a while back still works and is sorta similar. and some of cem karaca's stuff is pretty nuts, like aci doktor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyimZuXwALM

GOVERNMENT TRASH QUEEN ON A THRONE (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Monday, 14 September 2009 02:47 (eight years ago) Permalink

I think Bunlalimlar had their own thread is why no one brought them up here?

What I really want to hear more of is the Erkin Koray / Grup Bunalim COSMIC GLAM PSYCH project Ter which their record company put the kabosh on for being too "far out".

Mark G, if you're not feeling the Koray love, then watch that video above - Cemalim. I think that might be his best - or at least his most accessible.

I ordered an Anatolian Invasion t-shirt from Finders Keepers, but lord knows when I'll ever get it, what with the postal strikes and backlogs and all. :-(

girls just wanna have mixtapes (Masonic Boom), Monday, 14 September 2009 09:18 (eight years ago) Permalink

i think ter only had the one 7"? i mean, damn, i hope there's more in a vault somewhere just waiting to be discovered...

GOVERNMENT TRASH QUEEN ON A THRONE (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Monday, 14 September 2009 10:07 (eight years ago) Permalink

Yeah, there's that one song on the Hava Nargila compilation which just makes them sound like they would have been AMAZING had they done an LP. I hold out hope that in some secret record company vault somewhere there exist demos that made A&R guys hair fall out or something. But it probably would have surfaced by now, had it existed.

girls just wanna have mixtapes (Masonic Boom), Monday, 14 September 2009 10:09 (eight years ago) Permalink

That is TEH AWESOME!!! Presume it's the other side of the single with the one I know?? :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf27dRbq8Dc

girls just wanna have mixtapes (Masonic Boom), Monday, 14 September 2009 10:38 (eight years ago) Permalink

Kate: I liked the "Genlik" Monkey one, but didn't have the time to sit around listening, and the Selda got short shrift at the time.

Still, I have time. Or, I will have, at some point in my life, who knows???

Mark G, Monday, 14 September 2009 21:05 (eight years ago) Permalink

four months pass...

I'm enjoying the Erkin Koray video posted upthread. I came back to check out all the stuff people have been posting here over the last year or however long it's been. I still don't really click with the more classical end of Turkish music, from what I've heard anyway, but that may be all the more reason to check out this other material where the turquianidad (that's bogus Spanish, incidentally, not bogus Turkish) gets twisted into new arabesques. Also, I think some of this Turkish stuff under discussion was minimal techno, which I'm suddenly curious about since my conversion to minimal techno (or rather, since I found out I liked the new Pantha du Prince anyway). More later. Downloading something or other obscure off a blog link from this thread as well.

_Rudipherous_, Thursday, 4 February 2010 13:45 (eight years ago) Permalink

I have no recollection of either listening to or posting the links for those Aynur Doğan mp3s (nor do I have any recollection of her name), but they are not bad. My favorite thing on this thread is probably that Erin Koray video way upthread. Some of the mixes people have linked too are just mixed (ahaha).

_Rudipherous_, Saturday, 6 February 2010 06:05 (eight years ago) Permalink

And I must have read about Turkish minimal techno in some comments Masonic Boom made elsewhere.

_Rudipherous_, Saturday, 6 February 2010 06:09 (eight years ago) Permalink

I thought I had mentioned Seyfettin Sucu, who I do like to some extent, on this thread. I only have one of his cassettes, bought without any clue as to who he was (aside from a Turkish singer), but there's a lot of music by him on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1fN_NGNLV4

Oh, hey, there (in the video) is the cover for the cassette I have, I think: Bulbul Oter.

More. . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg19YJSwA94

_Rudipherous_, Saturday, 6 February 2010 06:33 (eight years ago) Permalink

That second one is very vocals-oriented, sorry. Not really my cup of tea. I generally like the ones that are heavy on electric bazouk/guitar.

_Rudipherous_, Saturday, 6 February 2010 06:58 (eight years ago) Permalink

I could swear I posted at least once on ILM about Seyfettin Sucu, but I can find nothing. Maybe it was a different board or a newsgroup.

_Rudipherous_, Saturday, 6 February 2010 07:02 (eight years ago) Permalink

Found it. I had two letters wrong in his first name.

_Rudipherous_, Saturday, 6 February 2010 07:04 (eight years ago) Permalink

Clicked on the second Sucu video you posted and I like both the cool sounding "bazouk/guitar" and the vocals. Vocals like this, like other middle-eastern ones I've heard, and those on Youssou NDour's Egypt, also remind me of certain Jewish cantors i've heard in synagogues. The ethnological similarity is interesting. I also want to say the vocals feel "bluesy" but that is kind of as wrong as saying certain Malian things sound bluesy when it is likely more the other way around.

curmudgeon, Saturday, 6 February 2010 15:22 (eight years ago) Permalink

There are definitely connecting threads there. I don't have the terminology for it, or the knowledge for it (for that matter), but I tend to think of middle eastern vocals on a spectrum. I have to admit that I tend to prefer what to me is the less harsh end of that spectrum. I would put a lot of the traditional Turkish vocal styles on one side, along with Syrian classical vocals, classical Iraqi vocals, and the vocal styles that seem to have been more popular much earlier in the 20th century in Egypt and maybe the Arabian peninsula, and maybe also cantorial vocals (though I'm not all that familiar with that sound); all of which are not so far removed at times from qawali to my ears. I tend to prefer the somewhat smoother sound that became popular in Egypt (with singers like Mohamed Abdel Wahab, Farid el Atrache, and later Abdel Halim Hafez) and the Gulf (a good contemporary example being Mohamed Abdo) at a later point. But I don't know enough to know whether that sound was there all along and the different sounds went in and out of style. I'm also not quite sure how to fit female singers into this. Oum Kalthoum, for instance, to me straddles the line between the two extremes I'm talking about here. (I'm attempting to do cross-cultural comparisons here without being an expert in even one of these national cultures. So I admit this may be mostly bullshit.)

Diamanda Galas always has intriguing things to say about the connections you were bringing up:

DIAMANDA: Interestingly enough, since 9/11, a lot of people coming from the Middle East are saying there would be no blues if there were no muezzin singing, and I said, “Well, you know, the reason I won’t argue with that is that music comes from Byzantium, from the mixture of all these cultures in the Middle East, including Anatolia, Turkey, Greece.” Where did the music of Islam come from? Well, it came from the Arabs, originally. Who did the Arabs get it from? The Arabs took it from the Greeks. They all changed music together in that melting pot of the Black Sea and Egypt and Turkey; in all those Arab countries, there was this exchange of music. So you have this bending of the tones, and you don’t just have a five-note scale—what is that? All these taqsims and the makams, all these scales.

And that is what I hear when I listen to most interesting blues music, which I feel is from Somalia and Ethiopia right now, because they have to get up there and be really good qaraami singers—the improvised music of that whole part of the world—and then they have to be pop singers and blues singers, too. So they get up and they start the solo with the qaraami, then they go into the song, and they go back into the qaraami. The qaraami is sung by church singers also. But these are real singers—I hear it and I think about where the blues is, what the Americans have done to it since then, which is just: repeat.

ARTHUR: Though they seem to specialize in it, that overly reverent regard for musical genres’ classic forms—stylizing them till they petrify hard enough to put them up on museum shelves—is not an exclusively American problem.

DIAMANDA: But when people try to get into this ethnic purity thing, like with Wynton Marsalis or Stanley Crouch, it’s the same thing that people do when they think about Armenian music—“Well, this scale or sound here is probably Turkish.” And I say, “How do you know if it’s Turkish or not?”

ARTHUR: A lot of musical idioms and techniques do get called Turkish; Western music critics use “Turkish music” as a big umbrella term.

DIAMANDA: That’s what Turkish imperialism is. They are a very rich country—in between what they get from America and what they get from Israel, they do real good. They can afford to have plundered the Assyrians, the Kurdish, the Greeks, the Armenians and many Arabic cultures and call it Turkish. They have borrowed from everyone, and other cultures as well have taken from them. But there is no such thing as a united Turkish music. That is just a bunch of shit.

This whole thing about insults to Turkish people, in Turkey they put people in jail for it. If you say you’re Assyrian, that means you’re insulting Turkish people; if you speak Greek, that’s an insult to Turkishness. And still, those two cultures melted into music that is now called Turkish music. Anatolia was a huge area that was inhabited by many cultures, and now they call it Turkey. And they say it’s “The Land of the Turks”—only because they killed everybody else off that lived there before.

ARTHUR: Of course, modern Greek musicians frequently refuse to sing certain songs because they think the song’s roots are in Islam. But in reality, they don’t know where that song came from.

DIAMANDA: There are a lot of people who refuse to perform certain music because they think they’re performing music by the enemy tribe. And they’re not. It’s part of their own music. The Turks employed Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians and Jews to compose music for the sultans. Then they called it “Turkish music.”

http://www.arthurmag.com/2009/01/25/vengeance-is-hers-a-conversation-with-diamanda-galas-by-john-payne-from-arthur-no-28march-2008/

_Rudipherous_, Sunday, 7 February 2010 01:55 (eight years ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJbgnU_d4ZA

lol @ 'folc'

Snop Snitchin, Sunday, 7 February 2010 02:30 (eight years ago) Permalink

x-post--interesting

curmudgeon, Sunday, 7 February 2010 02:35 (eight years ago) Permalink

Incidentally, curmudgeon, do you ever check out the Greek music thread? I think you would like some of what I have been posting to that.

_Rudipherous_, Sunday, 7 February 2010 03:06 (eight years ago) Permalink

Once in awhile but not in ages.

curmudgeon, Monday, 8 February 2010 04:21 (eight years ago) Permalink

A lot of that Sakir Oner Gunhan album linked to upthread is good, although I still prefer the instrumental aspect over the vocal aspect. (Not that he isn't a strong vocalist--he is! But Turkish vocals tend to put me off a little. Maybe it's even Turkish itself.)

_Rudipherous_, Saturday, 13 February 2010 01:07 (eight years ago) Permalink

And I must have read about Turkish minimal techno in some comments Masonic Boom made elsewhere.

Onur Özer is the bloke I was talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts2tIeUgBfY

I never did get to go to Istanbul last year. :-(

Masonic Boom, Friday, 19 February 2010 11:53 (eight years ago) Permalink

Thanks. I like the colors there, but the rhythms are too close to regular "dance music" type stuff for me, on first listen anyway.

_Rudipherous_, Friday, 19 February 2010 13:38 (eight years ago) Permalink

Well, it is Minimal Techno after all! Just done by a Turkish person. I couldn't find his better e.p. on YouTube, unfortunately (Red Cabaret) but it is still Techno more than Turkish.

For the Middle Eastern music with dance elements (rather than techno with Turkish elements) I still prefer Harem and Natasha Atlas and stuff like that. I definitely mentioned Harem above, and Atlas I think has her own thread elsewhere.

Of the Finders Keepers stuff, it's funny, I loved the Ersen stuff but wasn't that keen on Mustafa Ozkent. I think the latter really didn't live up to the promise of its cover.

Masonic Boom, Friday, 19 February 2010 13:44 (eight years ago) Permalink

p.s. I think half of my love of Turkish music is that I love the sound and feel of the language so much.

Masonic Boom, Friday, 19 February 2010 13:45 (eight years ago) Permalink

Well, it is Minimal Techno after all!

Well, yeah, I was just hoping that somehow the Turkish side of it would blunt the techno side a little, and since getting into Black Noise I now realize that minimal techno can work for me sometimes, unless that album is just a complete anomaly. (I think one reason Black Noise works for me is that there are a lot of other rhythmic things going on besides the sort of foundational techno rhythms.)

_Rudipherous_, Saturday, 20 February 2010 00:57 (eight years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

This rocks the funky beats:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtlKfFIm5es

I think I came across this singer while I was searching for Samira Toufic youtubes, which makes sense because she seems like a Turkish equivalent. I haven't listened to enough Turkish music to feel sure about where she falls in terms of relative virtuosity though. But anyway, a good discovery.

_Rudipherous_, Sunday, 20 February 2011 02:08 (seven years ago) Permalink

two years pass...

Liking this Turkish soundtrack (I think it's a soundtrack but now I don't see whatever I saw that gave me that idea) more than I'd expect:

http://open.spotify.com/album/4ntAXmmOWxsxnqgQG0GTAb

European chamber music, some Turkish instruments, low-key singing, dashes of electronics.

_Rudipherous_, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 02:13 (five years ago) Permalink

Sorry, for the Spotifyless, that is Taner Okyol's album Birds of Passage.

_Rudipherous_, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 02:15 (five years ago) Permalink

Akyol not Okyol. Let's not get Omme Kalsomme about it.

_Rudipherous_, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 02:16 (five years ago) Permalink

I might actually like Traveller/Yolcu more, but I've been in the music for instrumental music lately, which might explain it. The bazouk (I guess it's bazouk, or something very close) is in the spotlight on this one.

_Rudipherous_, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 04:00 (five years ago) Permalink

Rhythm track getting a bit too Bill Laswell now, unfortunately.

_Rudipherous_, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 04:01 (five years ago) Permalink

Lame thread title, imo.

_Rudipherous_, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 12:39 (five years ago) Permalink

every time you update this thread i think about posting a list of the turkish albums + rereleases i've been digging this year but i think i've mentioned them all on the world thread already.

Mordy , Wednesday, 12 June 2013 15:31 (five years ago) Permalink

Rachel Devitt did a playlist on Rhapsody last week; even if you can't listen to it, you can see what she included:

http://www.rhapsody.com/blog/post/music-of-turkey

http://www.rhapsody.com/playlist/pp.112134080

xhuxk, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 16:44 (five years ago) Permalink

One of my all-time favourite songs, Turkish or otherwise: Sezen Aksu's "Kavaklar".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdngjh5cy5E

breastcrawl, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:27 (five years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

It's the off-brand Türkvizyon Song Contest tonight. Various Turkic-language-speaking countries / regions, from Gagauzia to Kabardino-Balkaria, will be fighting it out.

http://i.imgur.com/2W23vdZ.jpg

Not sure if it's being streamed internationally but might be fun.

Wristy Hurlington (ShariVari), Wednesday, 19 November 2014 15:51 (three years ago) Permalink

bosnia

disconnected externalized and unrecognizable signifying structure (nakhchivan), Wednesday, 19 November 2014 16:16 (three years ago) Permalink

seven months pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUkftSQkWhQ

I probably listen to less Turkish pop than i should given that the only places remotely near to me that sell CDs stock nothing else, but i've been playing this a lot.

who epitomises beta better than (ShariVari), Saturday, 4 July 2015 20:38 (two years ago) Permalink

Speaking of "Bangir"s, this one is a real jam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGOfDctPKRo

Ayse Hatun Önal ft. Onurr - Güm Güm

breastcrawl, Monday, 6 July 2015 00:41 (two years ago) Permalink

two years pass...

I'm enjoying that book Anadolu Psych by Daniel Spicer. The expansion on a Wire primer he wrote a few years ago. Apparently he familiarised himself with the music to write the article and has immersed himself i it much farther to write this.
Could do with something similar on African psych stuff.
POssibly some other areas music of similar era too.

Stevolende, Tuesday, 12 June 2018 11:18 (one week ago) Permalink

Does Sami Baha's Turkish trap music that's fresh out on Planet µ count? I'm digging that a lot.

octobeard, Tuesday, 12 June 2018 20:44 (one week ago) Permalink


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