Pink Floyd vs. Joy Division

troll

Excuse me? Piss off. Just talking about music.

Seems a bit arbitrary, though, even by the standards of ILM polls!

milk vs. portugal.

tangerines vs. dictionaries.

Astronauts vs. robots.

There's a lot that can be written. Who's the troll now?

No need to get defensive, what's the reasoning for the comparison?

David Gilmour was the Sawyer on Lost of 1970!

that's a valid q, redmond - how do they compare? like if it were "hawkwind vs. joy division" it'd be a "source vs. tributary" sort of thing (Peter Hook on record as a big Hawkwind fan and I seem to remember he'd said they all liked that stuff), or joy division vs. some other band who resemble them. as far as I can tell between pink floyd and joy division - they both play amplified instruments, they're both English. how do they compare otherwise?

Interested in redmond's answer but I'm guessing the lyrical angst and spacy synth-rock musical tendencies? Not saying it's an obvious or really close comparison.

Repetitive mechanical rhythms (more literally in PF's case).

Pink Floyd any day. Joy Division are terribly overrated, although they did some great stuff as New Order.

This thread makes me hate Pink Floyd more than I already do.

I'm voting pink floyd just to give bimble conniptions

Hahaha, I had this feeling someone was gonna say something like that. I was gonna mention how Johnny Rotten wore an "I Hate Pink Floyd" shirt back in the days of the Pistols, but ya know, later on he retracted it and said he liked them, so...the wind went out of my sails on that anecdote.

Pink Floyd bore me to tears. They never fail to bore me. Doesn't matter what record it is, from what era, they never fail to bore me.

i think you had to be there to really appreciate pink floyd. with joy division it seems different. their music hasn't aged. pink floyd's is very much the music of their time, basically the seventies.

If it was some kind of Barrett/Dead Guy vs. New Floyd/New Order vs. Newer Floyd/Newer Order kind of thing it would make some sense.

If the Televison Personalities had done a song "I Know Where Ian Curtis Is Dead"

Guy Pratt has played bass with both Electronic and Pink Floyd.

It would make more sense if it was Floyd V Joy Division/ New Order: 1 and a half/ two records and a bunch of singles of visionary power, singer 'leaves" followed by decades of unrelieved mediocrity (and terrible lyrics)

x post - kinda what he said

Dude I wasn't there to appreciate Floyd I just dig the sound coming out of the speakers when I play something like Summer '68 or Candy and a Currant Bun or Pillow of Winds etc. Admittedly, I don't have much use for them after Meddle (though I still haven't heard Animals.) I've just started getting into Joy Division but I agree with the above posters that I don't quite get the reasons for the comparison.

Bimble, you will come around on Floyd one day, I swear it.

love both of those photos, particularly maybe the look on mason's face in the floyd shot.

i'd rather vote for the misfits in the 'misfits v black sabbath' poll that I never created because I don't know how to create polls.

So "you had to be there" exactly when on Pink Floyd? In '67? '71? '73? '79?

your fingers had to have trembled as you inserted the 'momentary lapse of reason' CD into the tray the very day it came out.

Next poll: Beatles v. Boys Next Door

So "you had to be there" exactly when on Pink Floyd? In '67? '71? '73? '79?

Shoegaze vs Converse

Selzer, I'd like to think so. But let's not bank on it.

Faithless vs Faith no More

sub: Which one has the least faith?

I don't even understand how this is even a poll. That said JD no question. I hate PF - a lot.

Thank you, ENBB!

these were both my favorite bands at different points in my life (points not very far removed from each other, come to think of it). the angst of floyd is more adolescent, the angst of joy division more intellectual, both are pretentious in their own way.

I like everything by Floyd from Meddle through The Final Cut, to varying degrees (I hate the Syd Barrett stuff - in fact, I hate that whole school of whimsical Brit psych-pop). But the only JD song I can get through is "Transmission." So yeah, Floyd for me.

syd barrett floyd >> joy division >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> post-barrett floyd

The sound of a kitten being fucked to death by a horse>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Syd Barrett Floyd

it's kind of a mystery to me that anyone can still stomach "classic" floyd; i'd rather throw my car radio out the window than ever be subjected to "money" or "wish you were here" or "brick in the wall" again.

x-post: whatever dude, i'll take sweetly melancholy edward lear-derived nursery rhymes over self-righteous, cloddy, plodding, dreary arena-friendly shit like later floyd any day.

They are both depressing.

That said, Floyd rules. With our without Syd. Without Waters, very bad.

Joy Division.

I'm surprised Pink Floyd gets praised as much as they do on ILM - in theory at least, they should be the *worst* *band* *ever*. Gods of classic rock + annoying fans + slow guitar music that you could never dance to.

Pink Floyd were probably the biggest wtf moment when I was a stereotypical teenager discovering classic rock. Their image: striking album covers, trippy drug music, millions of fans...doesn't match with reality: elevator music. It made me not want to do drugs.

that whole school of whimsical Brit psych-pop

This is like some of my favorite shit ever though I wish I knew more of it- been totally immersed in the Move lately- anyway, I don't know why I'm posting this here...

This does seem like a good place to post about The Move. Echo & The Bunnymen vs. Electric Light Orchestra?

Phil you are not my homey no more until you take back any bad shit you have ever thought about Barrett who is not "whimsical"

I mean I dig what you think it's about but it is not about that OK

I don't know, man - if there's darkness of the spirit there, that's swell, but it's darkness of the spirit in ruffly shirts, and I just can't hang. I will freely admit that some of the melodies to those songs are good ones, because I enjoyed the avant-metallers-cover-Barrett compilation Like Black Holes In The Sky quite a bit, but the originals just do nothing for me.

I like them both. I'll pick Floyd because they made more. I still put on meddle, animals, dark side, and wish...

Pink Floyd The Grateful Dead were probably the biggest wtf moment when I was a stereotypical teenager discovering classic rock. Their image: striking album covers, trippy drug music, millions of fans...doesn't match with reality: elevator music. It made me not want to do drugs.

FTFY

Joy Divison, c'mon. I like Pink Floyd and all, but Joy Division was a singular force. There aren't dozens of joy division cover bands criss-crossing the country playing 2 night sets at drug festivals, because they could never be imitated. There was nothing like Joy Division, before or since.

<blockquote>If the Televison Personalities had done a song "I Know Where Ian Curtis Is Dead"</blockquote>
This is funny to me.

Seems like a fair comparison to me, not in that the bands are similar, but in that they're not. I mean, they're both hugely influential UK bands, and they each still represent an era and a musical/aesthetic point of view. But more to the point, they represent points of view that are often seen as being diametrically opposed to one another. So the poll asks us to take sides in yesterday's culture wars.

On that score, Floyd, easy, no question. I love Joy Division and all, but I've spent more time with Pink Floyd, and they've offered more in return. I jump ship at (or maybe after?) The Wall, but everything up to Dark Side is brilliant.
''

Seems like a fair comparison to me, not in that the bands are similar, but in that they're not. I mean, they're both hugely influential UK bands, and they each still represent an era and a musical/aesthetic point of view. But more to the point, they represent points of view that are often seen as being diametrically opposed to one another. So the poll asks us to take sides in yesterday's culture wars. Seems like a fair comparison to me, not in that the bands are similar, but in that they're not. I mean, they're both hugely influential UK bands, and they each still represent an era and a musical/aesthetic point of view. But more to the point, they represent points of view that are often seen as being diametrically opposed to one another. So the poll asks us to take sides in yesterday's culture wars. Seems like a fair comparison to me, not in that the bands are similar, but in that they're not. I mean, they're both hugely influential UK bands, and they each still represent an era and a musical/aesthetic point of view. But more to the point, they represent points of view that are often seen as being diametrically opposed to one another. So the poll asks us to take sides in yesterday's culture wars. Seems like a fair comparison to me, not in that the bands are similar, but in that they're not. I mean, they're both hugely influential UK bands, and they each still represent an era and a musical/aesthetic point of view. But more to the point, they represent points of view that are often seen as being diametrically opposed to one another. So the poll asks us to take sides in yesterday's culture wars. Seems like a fair comparison to me, not in that the bands are similar, but in that they're not. I mean, they're both hugely influential UK bands, and they each still represent an era and a musical/aesthetic point of view. But more to the point, they represent points of view that are often seen as being diametrically opposed to one another. So the poll asks us to take sides in yesterday's culture wars.

Hahaha, I had this feeling someone was gonna say something like that. I was gonna mention how Johnny Rotten wore an "I Hate Pink Floyd" shirt back in the days of the Pistols, but ya know, later on he retracted it and said he liked them, so...the wind went out of my sails on that anecdote.

I always kinda liked Gilmour's response to Lydon's shirt... It was something like "well, at least we were an interesting target. It's not like he would have gotten as much mileage out of a 'I hate Yes' shirt"

Anyway... Floyd in a knockout.

Also: Atmosphere/Dead Souls 7" > New Order >>>>> Joy Division

It's not like I'm a Floyd superfan, but they win this for me 12 times out of 10.

This is like Sex Pistols vs. The Fall or something. The sheer quantity of material consider is so disproportionate.

There aren't dozens of joy division cover bands criss-crossing the country playing 2 night sets at drug festivals, because they could never be imitated

no, but there sure are a bunch of forty-somethings pining for the days when REAL music that MEANT something, like Joy Division, was the order of the day

just like there's a bunch of tired fifty-somethings spouting the same crap about post-Barrett Floyd

I retract my criticism of the thread premise, it's OTM

Joy Divison, c'mon. I like Pink Floyd and all, but Joy Division was a singular force. There aren't dozens of joy division cover bands criss-crossing the country playing 2 night sets at drug festivals, because they could never be imitated. There was nothing like Joy Division, before or since.

No but still we have Interpol, The Editors and a lot of sound alike indie obscure bands from a few years ago. Still... I'll go with Joy Division, can't stand Pink Floyd and/or their fans.

Joy Division folks on this poll are my heroes.

I never understood the constant Interpol/JD comparisons. They both have singers with baritone voices. A Chameleons comparison seems a bit more apt. Are Magnetic Fields Joy Division rip-offs?

Great to see so many Pink Floyd band and fan haters in this thread. I used to think I was utterly alone.

(I voted pf btw)

can't stand Pink Floyd and/or their fans.

― elgolfo, Sunday, January 18, 2009 10:13 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark

What constitutes a typical Floyd fan? They have a lot of fans, I've met people of all sorts who like them.

Elvis Telecom OTM

PF fans in general seem a bit blinkered. I really like a lot of Floyd now, but I can still see what's shit about them, such as Waters's voice and Gilmour's horrible bloody wet-sounding guitar.

e.g. DSOTM is an all right album but no way is it even close to best evar.

Agree on Waters's voice, but quite like Gilmour's guitar and his voice, especially when he sings with Wright.

His playing's fine, it's the sound of the thing.

I wonder which band would do the better version of "Louie Louie"?

barrett/curtis duet obv

I hate Waters' voice. I really really really really hate Waters voice. Just saying. I have to get these things out of my system sometimes.

I hate Waters' voice. I really really really really hate Waters voice.

Fixed.

Joy Division folks on this poll are my heroes.

Count me in!

just like there's a bunch of tired fifty-somethings spouting the same crap about post-Barrett Floyd

i won't be 50 for another quarter century but that doesn't keep me from seeing that post-barrett floyd are godawful played-into-the-dirt dirgerock that don't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath with, like, steely dan or led zeppelin or robert wyatt or any number of bands/artists of their era that were just as ambitious but didn't blow. or, yeah, joy division.

that said, i have a soft spot for "have a cigar," which is so flamboyantly oily and self-righteous and whiny (look how mean and nasty those records exects are!) that it's funny, like a randy newman parody of pink floyd or something.

TBH, I'm not sure I even know who's singing which Pink Floyd songs. Of all the things to dislike, their vocal parts seem pretty inoffensive, even a bit unremarkable.

That's sort of my point. It just sounds like some blokes.

Ha, I can sort of understand that. It's Bimble's "I really really hate Waters' voice" that throws me.

The thread has made me listen to Wish You Were Here, I hope you're happy now etc etc

this is about as good as stadium rock gets...dig the travesty of the lord's prayer sat down right in the middle...

PF fans in general seem a bit blinkered. I really like a lot of Floyd now, but I can still see what's shit about them...

― Autumn Almanac

This is one of the things that makes the question interesting to me. By modernist standards, Pink Floyd's "failures of taste" are many and glaring. Barret so overplayed his cutie-pie teatime psyche tropes that they frequently became a grating, mincing sort of kitsch. Waters, on the other hand, emotes hideously, painfully, and his lyric reach for significance in a manner that's more embarassing than enlightening. Over the length of their career, the band seems to have indulged (and overindulged) every wayward idea that entered their heads, no matter how trivial or buffoonish. While they're all "tasteful" musicians, they rarely understate that which could be overstated, rarely choose concision or elegance over inflation and grandiosity. None of this makes them bad by any means, but it does make their taste extremely suspect, especially when evaluated relative to a coolly modern band like Joy Division.

Joy Division eschew decoration. Their music is stripped down, clean, reduced to mechanical functionality, never more than it needs to be. They emphasize the materiality and physicality of their instruments, rarely pushing them outside a narrow range of effects. As a result, their music is raw yet restrained, coldly monochromatic, even sterile. More than anything else, it is coherent. It is of a piece. In this, it is, perhaps, the purest pop embodiment of modernist ideals, and it rigidly obeys the dictates of its own, spartan aesthetic. The fact that they existed for such a short time only makes their artistic thumbprint that much sharper.

One thing you can say for modernism is that it simplifies the business of having good taste. When you make "less is more" your guiding principle, you make it much easier to keep all the elements of your art harmoniously aligned -- especially in comparison with an approach as messy and aesthetically risky as Pink Floyd's romantic maximalism.

ian curtis' voice is so horrible

I love Joy Division but because

No results found for "joy division laser show".

I voted for Floyd.

xxp I knew this thread was going to turn into TS: Victor Hugo vs. Charles Baudelaire

am wondering at this point if I'll go to my grave without having read Hugo

Hugo v. Baudelaire (re Valery's essay on Baudelaire)

Hugo = romanticism, values scope, breadth, vision, immensity, seeks to contain universes, no one work is perfect, often find clumsy patches, but the sheer immensity of the oeuvre is astouding

Baudelaire (in deliberate contrast) = classicism, values unity, formal perfection, free from glaring errors of taste, smaller in scale but more realistic/cynical, whole life's work can fit easily in a book (or two compact discs, as it were)

ian curtis' voice is so horrible

― Lingbert, Monday, January 19, 2009 4:40 PM (1 hour ago)

A bit embarassed to admit that not only have I never read Hugo, I'm unfamiliar with the essay in question. But yeah, I guess I'm paraphrasing Valery.

oh no embarrassment necessary...just found this collection of essays on Baudelaire at some college library fire-sale & picked it up for like 25 cents...I don't think I've read much more of Hugo than a few excerpts myself (I take it you all have read Baudelaire, though, hmmm?)

okay i'll admit it...not only have I not read any real amount of Hugo, not only have I not finished Les Fleurs du Mal, I haven't even heard Closer yet...which is why I haven't voted yet...I was just happy abt posting "Sheep", alright!

Went through a Baudelaire & Rimbaud phase during the unlamented poetry years.

Anyway, I overstated the Joy Div = pop modernism thing. That crown rightly belongs to Kraftwerk and Gary Numan, both of whom had the good sense not be Ian Curtis.

i think JD fits as far a sPopl Modernism goes, though this prolley has more to do with Messrs. Hannett than anything (I'm guessing, since yknow I've never heard Closer and have heard UP only a few times...)

sPopl = pop (Wow!)

Oh yah, they totally fit, it's just that I don't think they ran the game. Curtis' lyrics and delivery erred too far on the side of tortured-artist emotionalism.

George, please stop saying you haven't heard Closer. It breaks my heart every time you say that.

Joy Division could have done a terrific cover of "Let There Be More Light" or any of the More soundtrack songs.

alright Bimble lol

please stop pigeon-holing Barrett as being all cutey-pie twee. And even some of the twee shit still fucking rocks as hard and noisy as anything did back then.

Couldn't quite get my head around Pink Floyd as Victor Hugo, I always tend to think of them more in terms of Salvador Dali - the early avant garde experiments, the collabs with filmmakers, all the iconic classic period works - 'The Dark Side of the Moon' vs 'The Persistence of Memory', flying pigs vs lobster phones, all of that major stuff pretty much kitsch at this stage. Dunno who this makes Joy Division though. Alberto Giacometti?

joy division is terrible, but I bet they get lots of votes

Yah. Assume they'll win by a huge margin.

Not that they're terrible, mind, just that they'll win.

Pink Floyd = Victor Hugo = lotsa albums, long songs = Goliath
Joy Division = Charles Baudelaire = few shorts songs, two albums = David

that was it...any real cogent details or insights about either band were conveniently ignored in order to make these vague generalizations work...

the thing is Joy Division's inevitable victory really really is the romanticized-past gesture that Pink Floyd's would have been circa 1985 when everybody would have been saying "sure Joy Division was a good band but they only made a couple of albums"

also, dan otm in re: Barrett, to call him "twee" is to say "I haven't really listened v. hard"

Eh, I've been listening to PF & Barret for nearly 30 years now, sometimes hard, sometimes not. And fucker really was twee as shit a lot of the time (See Emily Play, Matilda Mother, The Gnome, Jugband Blues, freaking Bike, tons of stuff on the solo LPs), not that Engwish whimsey was the only thing he had going on.

And, hey, "twee" wasn't even my word in the 1st place.

it's only the singer that makes me hate Joy Division, I beleive

Engwish whimsey

Bike is twee, but it's visionary twee...but hurrah for Lucifer Sam which is nowhere near twee...

also, whatever the romanticizing tendencies of the fans, I was basically going by Valery's framework that Romanticism = sweeping gestures & grand statements, whereas Classicism = unity, focus, a small perfection.

I wonder if Valery's essay is on the Internet...

And they said this thread was stupid.

I couldn't find it...

Valery = not stupid in the least
Valery filtered thru Drugs A. Money = quite possibly verging on stupid :)

Your take on Valery's making me think that if PF's Dali then JD's not Giacometti but de Chirico.

kind of works...wiki describes him (de Chirico) as being influenced by Schopenhauer (not to mention his influence on Sylvia Plath, who certainly has affinities with Joy Division, and certainly would've been a huge fan had she been born in, say, 1962)

all i know is SOMEONE was listening to The Wall pretty heavy in 1979:

"Mother I tried please belief me
I'm doing the best that I can
I'm ashamed of the things I've been put through
I'm ashamed of the person I am
Isolation, isolation, isolation"

but hurrah for Lucifer Sam which is nowhere near twee.

Well it is about a kitty...

uhhhhhhhhhh joy division duh

i agree with geir (!), james polk, and sonofstan upthread -- this really ought to be a pink floyd vs. joy division/new order poll. the way it's set up now, pink floyd ought to be handicapped by lopping off the roger waters era ... or by tacking on the bernard sumner/new order years to joy division. otherwise, it's just counting on the fact that pink floyd didn't change their name after syd barrett left and overlooking the fact that new order WAS joy division (except without ian curtis).

Saucerful of Secrets vs. Movement

And fucker really was twee as shit a lot of the time (See Emily Play, Matilda Mother, The Gnome, Jugband Blues, freaking Bike, tons of stuff on the solo LPs)

Excuse me, "Jugband Blues" twee?!??!?!?

he was awfully apologetic for speaking his mind on "jugband blues," you know ... which is kinda twee if one overlooks the possibility that syd was being really sarcastic (which I for one think that he was).

Your take on Valery's making me think that if PF's Dali then JD's not Giacometti but de Chirico.

Yeah, that works a bit better doesn't it? That whole aura of creeping dread. And used on the cover of 'Thieves Like Us' obviously. We just need him to have pulled a Jacques Vaché for us before he went all neo-classicist.

Twee of Jugband most apparent in the delivery of "I'll do my loving in the winter."

Still don't see it

that's okay

All this earnest chatter and no-one has made a Joy Division Bell gag yet? Sheesh guys!

joy division's a great band but come on

joy division was the shit for 2 albums but pink floyd was the shit for 10 or something and yeah i can only listen to ian curtis for so long before i just want to listen to new order instead.

i used to hate Atom Heart Mother and now it makes sense to me. Suddenly unfocused orchestrations sound pretty cool. And Joy Division became a greater revelation to me when I heard the pre-Hannett recordings on Disc 3 of the box...and I always liked the albums...and The Final Cut remains one of my faves, so apparently my taste is fucked but maybe later I'll listen to Ummagumma and really get confused.

smurfherder, "the narrow way" parts 2 & 3 on 'umma gumma' are the jam

Tee hee. I love it when people get on an "I HATE [BAND]" tip, it's so young teenage girl isn't it? I mean when I was 14 I had an "I HATE CULTURE CLUB" badge, god only knows why, they didn't consume me with rage I just thought it was cool to have something to hate on.

And every era will have something of the previous that people will brickbat, tbh its suprising Floyd still have milage in that regard seeing as these days its cool to like Genesis and suchlike.

BTW, FWIW I'm not much of a fan of Pink Floyd *or* Joy Division. I only own one JD album and I dont think theyre much cop.

And Ian Curtis really was a dreaful singer.

hey now. ian curtis was the scott walker of manchester

And?

and nothing. pink floyd's still better

Okay. I'm with you there.

FWIW, i don't think much of syd barrett or roger waters as singers either. david gilmour and rick wright had good voices though.

Which songs are sung by whom? I seriously can't tell!

the one that goes "HOW DOES IT FEEALL" isn't Ian Curtis.

syd = sings most of the songs on piper and "jugband blues"
roger = sings most of the songs on animals, the wall, and "brain damage/eclipse"
rick wright and david gilmour sound a bit alike -- wright's voice is higher and softer, gilmour's is lower and gruffer. e.g., gilmour sings lead on the verses, and wright sings backup on the bridges, for "time" and "us and them."

I love David Gilmour's voice but his guitar playing is even better. I think we all know who the real genius of the two from the second version of Pink Floyd is and it is not Roger Waters. Amused To Death showed the truth of his second banana ability.

"Learning To Fly" is a surprisingly durable and awesome song from swansong-era Floyd.

Just remember that every time you listen to Joy Division vocals you are also listening to Interpol and She Wants Revenge vocals...
Joy Division fans must have similar voices themselves.. there has to be some Freudian explanation to why people enjoy that kind of singing or else people must be really good at tuning out all the vocal parts.

it took me a long time to be able to deal with Ian's vocals but it was worth the wait.

IC's vocals, like Morrissey's, are a huge barrier for some people. But, as with Morrissey, once it clicks, you realize that he's an amazing and original singer.

well I was able to get into The Smiths and Arthur Russell - so I dunno about that theory (but maybe I just understand those vocals on a Freudian level? - I mean I do think they are quite good) - I'll quit posting about this

Ian Curtis never had the opportunity to grow out of his awkward phase the way Morrissey did (the singing on the Smiths' debut is markedly different from what he was doing on The Queen Is Dead), so it makes sense that people would have lingering issues with Joy Division on those grounds. It is definitely worth getting past that, though, as a lot of Joy Division's songs are just staggering.

I understand Ian Curtis' vocals on a Freudian level.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

These two seem equally matched to me, I was wondering what ILX thinks.

huh

ILX agrees

A rogue moderator is editing polls with impunity

WAU what a poll. Kinda like when James Brown & The Beatles were tied...

wait what 42 ppl like pink floyd lol

wait what anybody likes joy division lol

Fuckin' hell.

Hey I could have been the tie-breaker, and I would have voted for.....

(Don't agree that the vocals on Unknown Pleasures represent an 'awkward phase', esp compared to vocals on any New Order.)

I was reading some blog last night that referenced this poll.

Unrelatedly, when I was in school there were some stoner kids slightly older than me, and they used to draw Pink Floyd pictures during art class. (clouds) They also had a book about the Velvet Underground and explained that they were like a New York version of the Doors. I wonder what they would have thought about Joy Division if they had ever heard of them. They were the wrong kind of kids to know about Joy Division.

One of them got arrested one morning for satanic massacre, but it wasn't her, just her friends.

so proud of my PF vote now

They also had a book about the Velvet Underground and explained that they were like a New York version of the Doors.

stoner kids otm

Was the VU book called Uptight: The Velvet Underground Story?

I love this thread result, I thought Floyd would get slaughtered.

this is how the who vs queen thread should have ended up

yeah, if queen was as good as joy division, maybe

I thought PF would walk this. My JD vote saved the day!

Yeah I just came here to say the same thing...I was sure Pink Floyd would get this by a wide margin just in terms of every Tom, Dick & Harry knowing who they are and all the records sold...so this says something interesting about the makeup of ILX, I think.

ilxors in ilx shockah

Glad I added to the JD vote, too.

42 people are wrong in this poll.

One of them got arrested one morning for satanic massacre, but it wasn't her, just her friends.

― james k polk, Saturday, January 24, 2009 1:30 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

1985 Houston, TX On 8-5-85 a Satanic Cult comprised of Harold Glenn Smith, Martin Wayne Tosh, Michael Gene Cravey, Shannon Rivera, and Bridgette Stowe, ages ranging from 16-18, had grown tired of sacrificing animals and decided to move on to bigger game. Smith, known as “The Wizard”, decided to sacrifice Dennis Keith Medler to Satan, because he previously had kicked he and Tosh out of his home. Lured to a secluded area on the ruse of picking psychedelic mushrooms, all took turns slashing his throat. Smith told the victim’s lifeless body, “Hey Keith, it was nothing person, we just wanted to see someone die.”“The Wizard” received life, plus a $10,000 fine.

I had a crush on Shannon's best friend, she wasn't there that day, but she did get taken away. I remember one day we talked about the Beatles. She liked "Money Can't Buy You Love." I liked their Chuck Berry covers. I told her about an Elvis Costello song that had the same name as her. (not Shannon, the other girl) a few years later, I partied with her brother. I'm already deeper into my memory than I want to go.

In conclusion, people used to smoke pot and take LSD and pretend they were Gnomes on Bikes, but then they would go out at night and Insert things into Bodies. No Love Lost.

42 people are wrong in this poll.

― ilxor, Saturday, 24 January 2009 05:30 (9 hours ago)

No, 84 people are right.

Ha. Voted JD -- obviously -- but delighted with this result all the same.

Hahahah Bimble is more Pink Floyd thank you...

Really, I love ILX. I mean who else, where else could you find something so ridiculous as a Pink Floyd vs. Joy Division poll?

it's so zany!

Hahahahah Frank Zappa might even be proud, who knows? LOL

I mean I'm just so happy we didn't have to go to war over Pink Floyd. Whew. We didn't have to have the barroom brawl. Everyone is happy. Oh man. Whew.

Ugh, this is not right. So not right.

No, it is the will of ILX. We can live with this. We can. Yes we can.

it is a thing of rare and wondrous beauty.

joy division live >>>>>> joy division >>> syd barrett floyd >>>>>>>>> post-barrett floyd

all this talk of curtis being a bad singer is insane

joy division live >>>>>> joy division >>> syd barrett floyd >>>>>>>>> post-barrett floyd

I'm inclined to agree with this.

i prob would too, though i've never heard any live JD.

apparently joy division >>><<< pinkfloyd

no way. joy division >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<pinkfloyd

Norm Coleman will see you people in court!

PiL greater than either!

i prob would too, though i've never heard any live JD.

Oh noes! The "collectors edition" of both Unknown Pleasures and Closer have an extra disk that's a whole live set, and they both kill.

Les Bains Douches is also pretty amazing.

joy division live >>>>>> joy division

I'm inclined to disagree. I love the production on the JD studio records, so many neat little tricks that I keep rediscovering.

They're two different equally overwhelming beasts. Listening to live JD at deafening volumes, especially the aforementioned Les Bains Douches, is adrenaline rush-inducing. And if you'd only heard the live stuff, for some reason, the otherworldliness of the studio recordings would be a bit shocking, I imagine.

do we have a thread live jd vs. studio jd? if not, i guess we need one. i would give a lot right now to see them live, i missed to see them at the time. the live cds and bootlegs are fine and huge but seeing them live would have been a very different story. has there ever been a band with such a powerful sound and such an obsessed singer? i don't think so.

The Eternal on the Preston 28 February 1980 live album -- the version without Hooky because the bass/bass amp/whatever has blown up -- is the single bleakest, most terrifying thing I will ever hear. Actually, that entire album is mind-fuckingly brilliant.

(I mean, obviously a load of that bleakness and terror is because you know what lay around the corner, but even so ...)

Yeah it's got In Utero appeal like that.

ilXor Last.fm group weekly chart for the week ending January 25, 2009

No. 1 Animal Collective

No. 2 Kanye West

No. 2 David Bowie

No. 4 Joy Division

No. 5 Radiohead

No. 6 The Beatles

No. 7 Fever Ray

No. 7 The Velvet Underground

No. 9 New Order

No. 10 Cut Copy

....
....
....
....
....
No. 217 Pink Floyd

proven by science????

http://pro.corbis.com/images/42-15557211.jpg?size=572&uid=%7BBC606FFF-8194-4FFD-94EE-6864B504BC68%7D

How'd I miss this one? Just as well, really, as I don't think I could pick one over the other. Today, though, Joy Division wins.

freakish tie

i never believe the poll results on ILM. too many people with multiple accounts.

A tie? Oy vey.

think about it -- there are some striking similarities (besides the fact that they are four of my all-time favorite bands).

frankly, the comparison is really incomplete when you exclude New Order. because Floyd was quite a different band post-Syd (though with almost all of the same people), just like New Order was a very different band than New Order. and they BOTH discovered synths AND dance music ("another brick in the wall") AFTER ian/syd.

"Another Brick in the Wall" is not dance music. And that comp title (A Collection of Great Dance Songs) is, whaddya call it, ironical.

i was really trying to be funny ... but "another brick in the wall" IS set to a disco beat (or as close to one as these plodders could get).

Number 57 on the Billboard club play/dance chart in 1980, too. According to Dave Gilmour, "It wasn’t my idea to do disco music, it was Bob’s. He said to me, ‘Go to a couple of clubs and listen to what’s happening with disco music,’ so I forced myself out and listened to loud, four-to-the-bar bass drums and stuff and thought, Gawd, awful! Then we went back and tried to turn one of the [song’s] parts into one to those so it would be catchy."

Big of Gilmour to admit to being a reactionary tool.

I like the idea of him sitting in camouflage in the corner of a nightclub taking notes, too.

Camo was more echo and the bunnymen tho.

not liking disco music != being a reactionary tool xxp

The only singer worse than Ian Curtis is the mopey dork from Tindersticks .

I like that he was like "this sucks...I'd better write something just like it!"

Floyd was quite a different band post-Syd

"Post-Syd" encompasses the period from, basically, right after "Piper" hit the streets! He was barely useful during the recording of "Saucerful."

nd they BOTH discovered synths AND dance music ("another brick in the wall") AFTER ian/syd.

Uh, synths weren't really available when Syd was a contributing member of the band, so this is hardly an insight.

"run like hell" gots some of the disco beats up in it too. always wanted a full-on dance mix of it tbh.

oh anag I like you and enjoy your posts based on knowledge but in all honesty

not liking disco music = being a reactionary tool feels as close to a fact of nature as nature wanders

PS the subtext here is "don't argue u reactionary racist" [better chattin' about stuff u enjoy than the rest of the ingrasable onionverse]

wait are you saying I'm a reactionary racist

Dave Gilmour, then anybody who doesn't like disco, then anybody who wandered past when I was drunk.

dude I called AbitW & Run Like Hell disco-metal in some other thread and got heaps of scorn dumped on my noggin!

It's not scorn it's fear of rhythm

reactionary tools!

anyway, if I was calling you racist anagram it was very stupid of me and I'm very sorry. hard for me to decipher my own drunk posts, honestly. stand by my general assertion re. reactionariness of being anti-disco tho.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6PHI-UiOPM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3RvAIJQh7g

no worries NV, peace

Probably the two bands I've spent the most time with in my life, maybe my two favorite bands, which isn't to say that I don't think Pink Floyd put out a lot of terrible stuff. I've always thought parts of Unknown Pleasures had eerie similarities to some of the darker/heavier tracks on The Wall, which for what it's worth, is exactly the kind of Pink Floyd stuff I don't rate too highly. Not sonically similar so much as some of those heavy foreboding minor chords.

In any case, Run Like Hell is definitely disco, and Pink Floyd have never been known for having taste. One of the most interesting things about them to me is just how insular they kept themselves. They say it in interviews, that they really didn't listen to any other bands and I think that helped them create a singular style and some innovate music, but also some dated/cheesy/silly stuff.

dude if Syd still had his marbles in '79, he totes wouldve been digging disco...

He was bigging up Slade in his last interview proper.