the juke/bmore/bloghouse frankenstein dance music they play at clubs

whats the deal with this stuff

i know this should be played out to even talk about at this point, except that this stuff is still everywhere, and has been sorta mutating into this gross, largely un-fun monster that gets played at a bunch of different places, at least in chicago, and tons of djs play this stuff. heres what i said on rolling ringtone:

its weird none of this shit seems particularly fun to dance to -- im used to old-ilx-style debates about dance music where everybody talks in reductive terms about a black-white polarity between funkless trance and groovin disco-house or whatever, and although i reject the simple and wrongheaded binary opposition there i have to admit it has sorta subconsciously informed the way i look at a lot of dance, even if in the most general, so-many-exceptions-to-the-rule terms.

this stuff though has really done a service to this sort of offensive race-informed discourse by removing it -- so many shitty djs of all races in this scene, and it is a genuinely diverse scene .... and sometimes it'll have good ideas and sometimes it will have shitty ones, but the worst is this BMORE BREAK x BORING GRATING SYNTH MELODY thing. and this isnt some lol im old bullshit i dont think -- this feels different, like i 'get' whats fun to dance to when listening to a bmore mix, i 'get' house music (obviously) but this stuff seems sheerly irritating when its all thrown together, like there's no vibe, no attempt to really make anything happen, just to signify 'progress' by with this cobbled together frankenstein dance music

― deej, Wednesday, December 3, 2008 1:07 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark

like the 'problem' doesnt seem like a lack of 'funk,' but just a lack of quality -- unless im just unaware of all the classic blogmore remix classics. Is this stuff gonna be repackaged and sold in ten years and canonized and all that

This is something i noticed when working on a club night which went from late electroclash to bloghouse/global dance eclecticism (we had kid sister, buraka etc) and all these disparate musics were getting so similar it had been mixed into a sort of orrible brown paste. theres no chance of this toss coming back. all the cheap external hard drives this music lives on will have perished and all the DJs hearing will have gone from all the jacked up 192kps serato harshness. its all just middle class indie kids with broadband trying to outdo each other with how many obscure black peoples musics from all over the world they can play semi ironically

the sad thing about this shit is now a lot of the o.g. Baltimore club producers/labels are starting to cater to that scene more overtly, whether by signing or endorsing more out-of-town new jacks or making more synthy Euro-style tracks, and sometimes it sounds cool but mostly it's depressing. at least that's the sense I'm getting, I try to avoid the post-Hollertronix miasma as much as possible.

Hey deej could you post some youtubes of specific tracks? I have a general idea of what you're talking about, but give me a handful of the worst of this stuff.

^^ this

rolling soft serve hipster house youtubes thread

aka lollertronix pt. 3249325

also wtf is 'bloghouse'

dudes/dudettes who jam this are hateable but theyre easy targets, politically naive, musically sort of clueless, clique-y and trendy and all that shit... ultimately no one i really know gets down to this and they dont really play it at places i go, except for the chromeo concert i went to, so, you know, i cant spend all that much time hating it, especially since there are way more valuable and important social and musical faux pas to get indignant about, like people thinking phil collins sucks

lol its an epidemic - good luck alex good luck deej good luck stragolloii - youll never escape it yr all gonna diiiieeeeee !!!!!

http://www.portfolio.com/images/feeds/blogs/harvardend.jpg

this is a chart abt the harvard endowment btw

$40 BILLION FOR FLOSSTRADAMUS

http://i33.tinypic.com/900tab.gif

<3 <3 frankenstein dance music

i heard a couple djs playing this stuff the other weekend, it seemed just on the edge of being really corny (like "hmm this is pretty corny, but i guess that sort-of baltimore beat is okay") and there wasn't much dancing.

srsly tho i bet lots sexy girls love it too

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6d/Monster_Mash_cover.jpg

srsly tho i bet lots sexy girls love it too

can greenzo get real here for a minute, lots of sexy girls love all kinds of music, basically, the same way lots of dbags love all kinds of music and speak all kinds of languages, so this is not saying much of anything

i bet no sexy girls love rush for instance max

RIP uppers.wav

http://i33.tinypic.com/900tab.gif

Jordan you're in milwaukee right? i think a crew from mpls that does this kind of thing was there recently...

yeah it's ok but only just ok

o wait it's back nm

http://www.collegecolosseumcontent.com/m_pictures/thumbs/girl-candy-apple.jpg

world's #1 rush fan

http://www.tripplanier.com/blog_files/page6_blog_entry37_1.jpg
stop right there max

madison, actually

was it the moon goons?

dudes/dudettes who jam this are hateable but theyre easy targets, politically naive, musically sort of clueless, clique-y and trendy and all that shit... ultimately no one i really know gets down to this and they dont really play it at places i go, except for the chromeo concert i went to, so, you know, i cant spend all that much time hating it, especially since there are way more valuable and important social and musical faux pas to get indignant about, like people thinking phil collins sucks

― :) Mrs Edward Cullen XD (max), Wednesday, December 3, 2008 11:34 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

hay icecraem and max im not trynna make a thread for complaining sorry if u got the wrong idea altho i do appreciate your keepin it positive in the face of "i do hate those frat boys!" potential of this thread!!

that said im asking a real serious question about what the the deal is w/ this stuff musically, or what its trying to go for and whether its actually going to be 'remembered' u know what i mean?? and while i dont know anyone personally who is real real into this stuff but i seem to run into it pretty often anyway -- it seems like the kind of thing DJs are just 'into' and theres nothing that can be done. i tend to avoid clubs that play stuff like this but it still gets slipped in, even DJs who start off playing rap music end the night w/ this kind of shit.

honestly i have no idea what songs are 'worst' or 'best' and honestly its not about it being too abrasive -- there's much more abrasive dance music out there -- its just about it being not fun to dance to

^^^Heres one of the songs as we were talking about it on rolling ringtone

^^^heres a lol (bad) remix of a song some of u might know

that trainer has a cd in it mate

nah it was some local dudes (who started off with a nice rap set btw)

Umm, well, I guess I technically DJ this stuff.

In my sets its a lot less Baltimore and Juke and a lot more abrasive electrohouse, but same difference.

Artists I like in this style.

Santiago and Bushido (technically fidget)
every fifth Crookers track (definitely bloghouse)
some James Amato stuff, basically a lot of stuff on Potty Mouth

And I've been mixing it with LA style electro-noize, like LA Riots.

I play this, because it works.

It seems to be very big in Madison (in a limited mostly college kid way).

do you project the accompanying videos at your nights? that's how it's done at this one night here (DC) and it doesn't help matters imo. i'll dance to this stuff (abrasive electrohouse, the black kids (great name!!!!!), basically everything on here) because the whole room gets dancing and there's an open bar and, well, i like dancing...but it's not even beatmatched?! do you beatmatch?? please tell me you beatmatch.

I beatmatch pretty well, and I tend to mix in a lot of older electro-house as well. Stuff like Black Strobe in 2004, older Zombie Nation, Tiga, even some High NRG. Whatever I can get away with basically.

I've been mostly playing at house parties, so no screens.

There's a pretty regular night here called Indie Queer. Its not bad, wouldn't mind playing there.

you're in madison?

Yeah, no one's ever heard of me though.

I'll play any party for beer basically.

yeah the idea of, admit it, big beat, with taylor dayne and rap choruses that everybody knows on top, with some lol90s pop dance thrown in every now and again, sounds great to me. but it's all centered on that justice sound which i don't really like at all. and i'm old.

i would KILL to hear the abwehr disco out

cool. my friends were dj'ing at Alchemy btw, which isn't a very dancey place anyway (unless you're a hippie band).

They should try for the Montmartre, its definitely the sort of thing that goes over well there.

A lot of the people who play Indie Queer have things going in Milwaukee too, I don't really know the venues though.

I think I first decided to play this stuff when I was up in the Twin Cities at the First Avenue. I went there to see Paco Osuna play on the same night as one of the Too Much Love parties. Paco was fine, but the party downstairs had about 5 times as many people there.

I'm like note to self: indie electro/bloghouse/whatever more likely to bring people to venue than Euro DJ.

I saw Jesse Rose play the Smartbar to like 50 people, so even fidget doesn't really have that big a following around here. I like deep house a lot, but it doesn't interest 99% of the people I hang out with.

i appreciate the honest answers esp since folks were clowning this stuff & the ppl who listen to it upthread --

but does this mean the appeal to you is pretty much audience-based, you dont really like to listen to it much? Have you noticed when you do a party or whatever that if you play traditional house people just arent feeling it?

I've tried mixing in some other stuff, I got people dancing to some UK Funky house and some Kerri Chandler at one point. But I don't even try that sort of thing unless its after 1:30 or 2 am, the people who actually like dancing will usually stick around for stuff thats a little outside their comfort zone.

I'm kind of torn about the first question, I actually find myself liking this music the more I play it.

I would have considered it hellish to have a Chromeo song stuck in my head even a year ago.

Now its not that bad, I'm basically just trying to find a midway point between my tastes and the audiences.

(I do get sick of the constant requests for Daft Punk songs though).

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=100522816&blogID=453220995

Check out this chart: Soviet Panda of the Too Much Love night.

Its actually about 50% stuff that I like whole heartedly.

I think middle school dances condition Americans to only dance to songs they recognize--so they won't get down to house unless there's a jayz acappella on top

I am a fan of that Crookers Day & Night remix

no max normals dont dance to house because of theyre not gay - this is changing w/the release of the film "milk" now

those kids who do Indie Queer are the WORST perpetrators of this.

haha i forgot about gay/straight binary in my o.p.

the usual thesis being america hates the gays

like i would say this stuff doesnt sound gay enough except apparently its real big at queer nites around here too. well im stumped -- how can i work identity politics into my fundamental dislike of this stuff???

I used to definitely ride for this shit but I agree it's gotten embarassignly bad. the barrier to entry is way too low (logic+serato+blog friends)..the genre has given us a couple dope tracks though...

^^^when ppl post like this they make me want to go vahid on a motherfucker

the only point at which this makes sense to me is the actual sound quality of the traxx that are created - i dont get why tracks sounding like shit, from an engineering standpoint, can ever be seen as a 'good thing'

the drums are just not cool. It's made to either stand around to or like stage dive while spraying beer everywhere

i think that now america can see because of things like indie queer and such as that gays are not actually something to be worried about as far as people who show you up to be cooler than you because like indie even for not v cool people was something abandoned in at the latest 2004

oh. I guess maybe you mentioned that in some of the text I didn't read. I wasn't even thinkng about sound quality

so in conclusion we all just assumed a lot of things that turned out to be wrong :)

yea no idea where this gay stuff came from I'm talking about the djs who play that specific night. Sound quality issues probably comes from guys like sebastian and kavinsky who use cdjs and trainwreck and throw half the eqs to ten and the other half to zero instead of properly mixing

gayness is natural is comes from everywhere like water or the air

well water you have to pay a bill for usually

The weird thing regarding bad mixing is that this stuff really isn't that hard to mix.

Its just big obvious riffs half the time, its nowhere near as touchy as even mixing good deep house or disco can be. Maybe its just years of being a metalhead (and being into industrial and EBM in my teens) that makes it easier for me, mixing Funky drives me crazy.

i have no idea whether the dj at this night im thinking of doesnt beatmatch because he cant or just wont

i should ask via the txt request hotline

its not really about the beatmatching per se imo -- too many djs get so focused on that they forget to pay attention to the vibe of the room
not that its not important, trainwrecks are bad obv

you are opinionated .. some people dont like beat matching and what it has done to people .... the grey dark woods has answers .

nah its not that i just think blaming it on 'djs who dont beatmatch well' or how the bar has been lowered for entry misses the point im trying to make in this thread

or rather the point im trying to discuss in this thread - im not really sure what point im trying to make

the point is to get chix to make out w/each other - that is why people dj

exactly -- what i dont understand is why this shit makes anyone want to make out. i think maybe its that ppl dislike it so much they decide to get drunk which leads to more making out

now were cooking w/fire!!

the point of this thread is to get chix to make out with each other???

i dont think any chicks have even posted in this thread yet br0s -- we got work to do. im going to drink a beer and see what happens

pay the blog-house louder they'll hear us over on "i love style"

deej with an attitude like that no ones ever going to make out because of this thread

i hav 0 beers :(

My issues with Justice style riff music are basically along the lines of over-compression makes for a lack of dynamic range. The music is loud but also very flat sounding, even though tracks like Digitalism's Jupiter Room can be very impressive when played out.

I keep finding myself wanting to mix in Border Community artists, people like Ricardo Tobar. I can't handle the flatness of everything. My issues with fidget mostly revolve around the occasionally just stupid attempts at humour.

I don't play Club music because I'm not from Baltimore, don't play Juke because I'm not from Chicago.

I'm certain I'd just come off as clueless Midwestern white kid who knows nothing about the music.

Now I go find myself alchohol.

im drinking a whiskey

yr prob not a clueless midwesterner because i am not detecting a can do spirit xp

yah beatmatching isnt the sine qua non of dance music, im not saying that, just personal taste, i like not to have to cease moving between tracks. or should i say songs. for me what it maybe comes down to is this rock or dance music, lame binary i know, and not what this thread is supposed to be about im sure
xpost

i think i hav some whiskey but really i want a beer

i ordered a pizza

i could go to the store - id hav to put on shoes - tough :/

i had pizza earlier

i might get some beer then do more work then tomorrow i will buy an iphone

and maybe party

its a iphone celebration yall

I'm drinking Bulleitt mixed with vanilla cream soda, its tasty.

This is both rock and dance, I'm kind of split between thinking of it as deep electroclash (joke) or Heavy NRG.

knob creek straight, gift from coworker

great thread so far

serious ILM threads RIP

thats mostly a good thing but i thought maybe ppl would have some insights here

yeah until tim or vahid shows up all youre gonna get is shenanagins and a <shrug emoticon>

Tim would be pretty ehh about the idea of Heavy NRG, I'm thinking.

My guess is that a lot of this music is of the use once and destroy variety.

But people really never expected anyone to care about disco 30 years later, so who knows?

every time ppl talk about how 'disposable' this stuff is i get all http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/1c/83/e3fe024128a0a540eed10110._AA240_.L.jpg

im open to the idea that some of this music is real good but its the DJs who are shitty

even though tracks like Digitalism's Jupiter Room can be very impressive when played out

this is a fuckin jam

and half the stuff on that chart you posted is good

huge difference between that and the people that trainwreck Young Jeezy into Please Mr Postman Bmore Version imo

It does really remind me of electroclash circa 2002 and electrohouse circa 2004, and a lot of the French stuff is obviously heavily influenced by Braxe, Bangalter and Co., but I'm not saying its all disposable.

I think Joakim's music is pretty obviously a labor of love, and it shows.

gr8080 is playing me some traxx that sound dope but also sound like they hew a lot closer to classic chicago disco-house like CZR or paul johnson or somebody -- with maybe a bit of a more glitchy beat, sorta derrick carter ish -- i enjoy the skippier/glitchier rhythm aspect

but this doesnt feel really radical or anything

I think fidget mostly exists as a DJ tool, for moving in between genres.

see to me that sounds more like this (czr rmx of bob sinclair)

the only time i ever really felt weird about dancing to this was after the chromeo show when flosstradamus was djing and they dropped dead prez's 'hip-hop' and all of my bougie white self-loathing and self-consciousness abt race rose to the surface as every dude in the 80% white audience started chanting along to 'white folx say it controls your brain'

haha i can 1-up you on that one -- i saw dead prez @ intonation fest and they had fred hampton jr come up on stage

you know probably these questions only even arise cause dance music has by far the highest aspie ceiling - once that dawned internet all bets were off - in fact im not sure any of this shit even exists irl

intonation fest
http://www.brooklynvegan.com/img/music/intonation/2006/intonationflyer.jpg

that poster looks fit for some ngo annual appeal

i should ask via the txt request hotline

― W i l l, Wednesday, December 3, 2008 3:11 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this club actually does this????

i had a girl come up to the booth once holing up her phone that had a request typed out on the screen so she didnt have to shout at me <3

if u didnt txt back "rip ur top off" im not sure we can be friends anymore

that AC/DC track that deej posted is a perfect example of my issue with most of this stuff-- i feel like lots of it is good for a minute or two then it does some grating stuttery breakdown and goes all glitchy then switches up into some other annoying section of the song then come back to the good part, gets you stoked on an awesome build again and then does the whole thing over again

which is why i like the voodoo chilli 12" deej posted a song of-- doesnt switch up too much.

here's another off the same 12" which is basically "the bomb" fucked with a little:

^prob too straight up disco house for this thread tho

what is the ac/dc track, i get video removed for that first link

the first vid is kid cudi crookers remix, 2nd vid is acdc crookers remix

both links are working for me, try refreshing the page

ok i will explain it to you all but you wont like it - its cause its frivolous - basically in the history of 21st century popular culture at some point people thought o i want to have fun and and thats cool cause who doesnt want to have fun - but then they forgot why they wanted to have fun in the first place - that is basically what happened

Now I'm really confused.

I'm with yah on the frivolity thing, but when has dance music not been frivolous?

all u need to know is that joe is the kind of dude what has "theories" and he has some sort of "theory" about like pop culture and all u really need to do is just sort of nod and type "otm" and ignore him

watch how i do it

ok i will explain it to you all but you wont like it - its cause its frivolous - basically in the history of 21st century popular culture at some point people thought o i want to have fun and and thats cool cause who doesnt want to have fun - but then they forgot why they wanted to have fun in the first place - that is basically what happened

― ice cr?m, Wednesday, December 3, 2008 9:04 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

otm

just nod along to the beat-theory son

Sorry, I'm a little drunk now. I get all serious when I'm drunk.

I co-sign entire thread. OTM

btw im watching this awesome show on fox where rich people go undercover in poor communities then pick a favorite from their new friends and give them a bunch of money

the secret millionaire? i saw the promos for that is it good??

alleviating wealth-guilt one night in front of the idiot box @ a time

this really well intentioned clueless fast food chain owning couple is on - im starting to feel bad for them

hahah they just spent $90 of the $107 dollars they have for the week on groceries

lol the dude is worried that people are going to recognize him from his fabulously famous chicken finger chain

people seem to be totally aware that these millionaires want to give them money

im watching house and considering adding the young doctor chick to the would smash thread

yah house is pretty sexy no homo

omg i had to change the channel cause the giving away the money part was too embarrassing and now theres some show w/celebrities in africa feeling bad and giving away money - is this what tv is gonna be like during the new great depression - this sux

i kind of love it, because the fantasy goes either way--like, i can be the poor people receiving all the money or the rich people being all generous and going to heaven

yah house is pretty sexy no homo

― ice cr?m, Wednesday, December 3, 2008 8:31 PM (26 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

bloghouse md

all these corny fukrs being all omg this has changed me so much - talk abt ignorant fools ffs

like wtf is wrong w/these people that they srsly dont know that the world is largely populated w/dirt poor people

this stuff seems pretty prevalent in melbourne, but it has different permutations depending on the crowd. fidget and crookers-type stuff gets play among the melbourne electrohouse cottage industry (that stuff we were all calling haircut house on that one thread ages ago) along with local productions, ed banger and simian mobile disco-type stuff. that's a fairly 'mainstream clubber' crowd. the b'more-juke-diplo stuff tends to have the 'ghetto' aspect played up on flyers and seems to attract lapsed indie kids and the readership of vice magazine. (who are white btw.)

lol that crookers remix song got an official vid

and kid cudi is mad about it getting released - otm i think, shitty video

KiD CuDi says:

SEE, THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS I HATE THIS INDUSTRY….MUTHAFUCKAS GET CONTROL OVER YA MUSIC AND YA IMAGE AND DO WUTEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT TO DO WIT IT….THIS CROOKERS VIDEO WAS NOT APPROVED BY ANYONE ON MY TEAM….WE JUS EXPRESSED TO THE PEOPLE WHO SHOT THE VIDEO AND TOL THEM WE DIDNT LIKE IT AND WANTED TO TRY SUTTIN DIFF, NEXT THING U KNO WITHIN HOURS ITS ALLLLLLL OVER THE FUCKIN INTERNET….NOW, SUTTIN SEEMS FISHY HERE…..ID B WRONG TO START PUNCHIN MUTHAFUCKAS IN THE JAW BONE (AND IM REALLLLY NOT A VIOLENT PERSON, I HATE VIOLENCE ACTUALLY) BUT DATS HONESTLY HOW I FEEL RITE NOW….PEOPLE R TAKIN SUTTIN I CREATED, SUTTIN DATS SPECIAL TO ME AND PUTTIN IT OUT CUZ THEY WANT TO….MUTHAFUCKAS R SIGNIN OFF ON SHIT AND NOT LETTIN ME KNO ABOUT IT….IM WRITIN AND SAYIN ALL DIS SHIT SO YALL CAN REALLLLLY SEE HOW SHADY THIS GAME IS, LIKE 4REAL 4REAL, NIGGAZ JUS WANT TO USE U AS A PUPPET….AND DATS HOW I FEEL RITE NOW, LIKE A FUCKIN PUPPET….IAM SOOOO BEYOND UPSET THERES NO WORD TO DESCRIBE HOW I FEEL AT THE MOMENT…IM ALL THE WAY IN AUSTRALIA AND CANT DO SHIT ABOUT ANYTHING BUT I ASK EVERYONE ON EVERY BLOG, IF U SUPPORT ME AND ARE A TRUE KID CUDI FAN IAM ASKIN THAT IF U POSTED THIS VIDEO TO PLEASE TAKE IT DOWN…BY POSTIN IT UR LETTIN THESE SNAKE MUTHAFUCKAS WIN AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF A ARTIST U GUYS ALL FEEL….I REPEAT, IF U REALLY GIVE A FUCK ABOUT ME AND MY MOVEMENT THEN PLEASE TAKE THE VIDEO POST DOWN…IF I SEE IT ON YA BLOG THEN I KNO U MUST JUS B THIRSTY FOR HITS OR SUTTIN AND NEED THE ATTENTION AND I WONT EVER SUPPORT YA SHIT AT THIS POINT AFTER READIN MY WORDS I DONT CARE WUT ANYBODY MAY THINK ABOUT HOW IM REACTING…IF U DONT UNDERSTAND THEN OH WELL, BUT IMAGINE SOMEONE TAKING SOME SHIT U WORKED HARD TO CREATE, SUTTIN FROM UR HEART DAT U MADE AND MANIPULATING IT THE WAY THEY SEE FIT CUZ SOMEONE (NOT ANYONE ON YA TEAM) SIGNED OFF ON SOME PAPER WITHOUT UR CONSENT AND GAVE DAT RIGHT TO THEM…SHIT IS FUCKED UP YO AND I SWEAR I GOT MY LAWYER ON DECK
OR WUTEVER SO ITS FINNA GO DOWN AS WE SPEAK…. LIKE THE LOX SAID ON A SKIT FEATURED ON WE ARE THE STREETS “NO MATTER WUT U DO, U CANT ESCAPE THE RAPE” MAN, I WANNA PUNCH SOMEONE RIGHT NOW….I WILL GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS, BUT IN THE MEANTIME, PLEASE TAKE THE POST DOWN YALL.

PEACE FURIOUS.
CUDI
P.S. IT WAS NOT SEMTEX DAT LEAKED THE VIDEO FYI SIDEBAR EVEN THO IT MAY SEEM THAT WAY

Boi.

Peace, Love & KiD CuDi

i still like the o.g. version of the song wayyyy more than that remix

is hee playin wii

the more i think about it the more i think max's post about middle school dances making americans dancing only to music 'they know' is otm about this stuff -- its like dudes dont actually think about dance music on any level beyond 'catchy melody people will want to know' and then just add generic dancing signifiers i.e. big kick drum, b-more break, grinding synth riff, and hope for the best -- theres like no internal logic to the structure of the song

and a lot of dance music is pretty intensely emotional and weird then theres shit like this thats jut lol dancing right

Lets do a compare and contrast.

There's the good:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=103329400

Fidget/UK Garage from Manchester

and there's the bad:

http://www.myspace.com/thebloodybeetroots

Shit from Italy that combines the more obnoxious qualities of Crookers and MSTRKRFT.

lol i like this crookers rmx now ^___^

at least until i hear a better rmx --- seriously gr8 melody for a dance jam

hahahahaaah after all that protesting

this kind of music still blows tho

yeah i hate it but i like it basically

how i break it down 2 an extent

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x18/gr8080/dancingalienld7.gif

nah i just like the melody. this remix can fuck itself

was it the moon goons?

― as a dude (goole), Wednesday, December 3, 2008 6:10 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

mpls LOLZ

haha yeah

good thread

did you want a serious answer?
Ever since reading Energry Flash/Generation Ecstasy a decade ago I have tried to test my reactions to something I find cheesy. His book really opened me up to rave and to all of the gloriously demented breakbeat-and-piano tunes of 1991 and all that followed (though I already liked DnB). I figured that since that awakening, I would be able to be more open to music like this. After all, it does combine crowd-pleasing beats, weird noises and obvious pop hooks. But I can't get into it. I am trying to figure out the reasons and here are a few things I have come up with:
1. Reynolds' most important point about circa-2001 electroclash is that it took club culture all the way back to before ecstasy, to before house, techno, and rave. In fact, the music, at least that which was not coming out of certain sectors (Detroit and The Hague) seemed to try and revive and or amplify that few-year period between disco and post-punk and then house and techno where there was little to no explicit sense of politics in dance music. Anyone, who, like me, has taken a more typical course through dance music, and got into it before the turn of the century, has, at some place in their heart, some sense that dance music does mean or did mean something. The first gen. electroclash artists had this feeling too, I think which is why Miss Kittin and Dopplereffekt and Clone records don't have shit to do with this current scene even if they helped to usher in the 80s revival sonics it partially depends on.
2. Drugs are important. too. Even though cocaine was prevalent in disco, at least in the underground, I get the impression that its value was as a way to stay up all night, whereas I feel like the use of cocaine since electroclash has more to do with the ego-boosting capabilities, and that music bore it out, with all of those haughty, dominating vocals that were worlds away from David Gahan crying over Martin Gore's spilled milk. Obviously, 1985-2000 in dance music was all about E, LSD, mushrooms and weed. And utopia.
3. I wish I could explain this better but I think there is a difference between enacted postmodernity and lived postmodernity. Modernism had collage in which all the parts added up to some unified whole, and postmodernity has pastiche, in which the contrasts and interplay are "the message". But I think someone like Beck had some critical distance, was choosing to make postmodern art, and had the sense of what contrasts would be playful or amusing (and I don't even really like his music). So he enacted the postmodern. Whereas I think with this music it just is. There is no real sense of interesting play, just people who can not achieve any sort of interesting critical distance from a lifetime of constantly flipping channels.
4. I think a lot of the major figures in this scene like M.I.A., James Murphy, etc., are more intelligent than what I just described. And you do have to include DFA with all of this.
5. Baudrillard said something to the effect of "retro demythologizes the past" and therefore takes away any power or mystery it had. That process has been going on for a while now and here are the results. It makes sense that the music itself is engineered to be flat because the music itself is all of history running into a brick wall. At best, this is just a fad. At worst, these records are examples of timeless music as an inverse value. The music belongs to nothing and nowhere.

most people i know (that aren't half retarded) are pretty over "bangers brah". it still gets played in most chicago clubs yeah, but who wants to go to a chicago club anyway? debonair? srsly?
this kind of music is played almost exclusively by laptop/serato djs. why? because its easy.

fascinating perspective sam york. this phenomenon doesnt matter bcuz you are too cool for it, good 2 know

, but who wants to go to a chicago club anyway?

people who live in chicago???

hay Shh! thnx for the serious answer! im not sure i agree with you about all that tho -- i dont think 70s coke use was any more righteous than it is now or something for example -- coke use wasnt part of some disco dancer self-discipline in order to stay up all nite i mean. i have to think more about the rest

well think about it. what is the reason there are so many dj's all of the sudden?
a. laptops
b. this kind of music

no not righteous but i guess i was thinking about the drug difference between coke and e and then I was thinking, well, it makes sense for 1985 on but what about disco? i wasn't around for disco proper but i have a lot of those records, and, they don't sound anything like electroclash orblog house and i dont mean in terms of synths. there was a different spirit in disco, so i guess i was trying to make that contrast by pointing out the difference in attitude between singers ad lyrics even though i didnt explicitly mention the more communal and loving vibe of salsoul.

the difference in attitude, if it exists, is probably more attributable to political context and the cultural positions of the producers of the music than it is to the drugs

yes. i meant exactly that but am writing backwards it seems.

i a sick and my brain is not working very well but i have some friends who are into this music and i wonder about it a lot so i thought i would wager a guess. maybe tomorrow i can explain myself better.

re your point #1 - i don't agree, i think the ironic thing is that people like the DJs and producers who make this music are probably more aware than anybody else of all of the minutiae of chicago house, detroit techno, UK hardcore and rave, etc etc.

it seems like the kind of thing DJs are just 'into' and theres nothing that can be done. i tend to avoid clubs that play stuff like this but it still gets slipped in, even DJs who start off playing rap music end the night w/ this kind of shit.

i don't know, i think of it as the end result - or maybe just the current state - of a morbid fascination with remix / mixtape / mashup culture. maybe that's why its popular with DJs?

is it really a morbid fascination?

sort of

i think there really is a drive to make some of this stuff unpleasant. if you check out turntable lab they use "obnoxious" and "ridiculous" all the time as positive descriptors for fidget house

maybe i should have said "unhealthy fixation"

"re your point #1 - i don't agree, i think the ironic thing is that people like the DJs and producers who make this music are probably more aware than anybody else of all of the minutiae of chicago house, detroit techno, UK hardcore and rave, etc etc."

only on a purely aesthetic level though, which is the point i didnt make well.

yeah, i mean these guys are aware of history to a certain extent and they are consciously trying to make something 'edgy' and 'new' that selectively references that history. and in the end they wind up just completely fucking with those sounds and having little sense of respect for the history of dance music

see you dudes are good at making me WANT to like this stuff

this is gonna sound challopy so i'm sorry, but srsly what constitutes having respect for the history of dance music and why should someone dancing give a shit? also why are there like a billion genres of house lol XD

basically the same as what icecraem was sayin here

>>> and a lot of dance music is pretty intensely emotional and weird then theres shit like this thats jut lol dancing right

― ice cr?m, Saturday, December 6, 2008 2:15 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark

ok!

i duno, i think a lot of people don't give a shit and that's probably ok. it actually explains the appeal of this music to a certain category of people

can we not redo this kind of debate plz thnx -- see i think this stuff suxx but i dont care how much or little these dudes know about dance music history

sorry deej!

dont ruin deejs precious frankenstein dance thread

i just want recommendations for ass-shaking jams

no no u dudes are fine im just not wanting to hear from guys who think the problem is kids these days, they just dont KNOW or CERTAIN PEOPLE who just care about FASHION instead of MUSIC or whatever it was going on upthread

black ass thread for Confounded xp

to this day i just assume confounded is the man photographed here
black ass thread for Confounded

would make sense considering the caption

deej = #1 thread robocop

what do you know

xp --- what are u talking about j0rdan weve moved on to discussing the black ass thread

quit talking about a funny dude and get back to work discussing frankensteinish dance music and what the hell is up with it anyway

chill gbx i was cool with good times jokez too

i was under the impression we had *work* to do

yes. getting chicks to make out with each other.

ay this thread got good again

hows lol med school

sup joe, sup evan, sup jordan

lol finals next week :-/

but i'm killing time trying to play with traktor, hence my interest in quality jamz

have u heard this song called 'day and night (crookers remix)'? what do you think

and a lot of dance music is pretty intensely emotional and weird then theres shit like this thats jut lol dancing right

this stuff seems to be positioned against the intensely emotional and weird, and that's part of the appeal, isn't it? one is not supposed to give a fuck about anything. big beat looks like the progenitor, but instead of the drunken hooligan vibe it's more like ADHD carelessness

wiat that's the one with the guy in the convenience store with the babes

only on a purely aesthetic level though, which is the point i didnt make well.

― Shh! It's NOT Me!

well, i don't know what "a purely aesthetic level" is or would be like ... but i think the sense i get is that these guys have absorbed the dogma that what's thrilling about pop music is a lack of pretension, tossed-off-ness, not caring about rules, the right to be trashy, the ephemeral-ness of it, etc etc

it sort of sounds to me like they read a simon reynolds article on the greatness of early rave music and decided to build on that, almost by intentionally making all of the "bad taste" mistakes they can

i'm thinking specifically of, like, jokers of the scene and so on when i write this.

punk has a lot to answer for imo

yeah and a lot of this stuff has day glo aesthetics straight from the post-JW noise scene

not a coincidence that people listen to this stuff also listen to like, crystal castles and whatnot

pretty cool that this scene has made making shitty music a really truly democratic thing -- cant really blame patriarchy or racism as this stuff is being embraced across the spectrum

there are so many dj's all of the sudden

post-JW noise scene?

i like day glo!

noise scene way down hill after jw died ;_;

wait so was he really banned? i guess i haven't been paying attn

http://i33.tinypic.com/900tab.gif

it sort of sounds to me like they read a simon reynolds article on the greatness of early rave music and decided to build on that, almost by intentionally making all of the "bad taste" mistakes they can

but rave's committment and sense of mission looks almost bolshevik compared to the attitude here

i've been to a couple of nights like this and by far the best thing i heard was "energy flash" into "the rhythm of the night." it was pretty intensely emotional and weird to me.

big beat looks like the progenitor, but instead of the drunken hooligan vibe it's more like ADHD carelessness

reading this thread actually makes me remember a little essay I tried to write in 1996 or really early 1997 about how 90% of jungle was crap because most folks making it only knew how to do one thing with the sampler and weren't interested in any of the other possibilities

which you can kind of say the same thing for tons of genres all the way back to jazz and rock & roll, these musics are ostensibly about seeking out and experimenting with the new, not ripping off DJ Elin's trashy autorepeat idea a decade late and with nothing else to show

^^^ cred points added for mentioning auto repeat

^^^ cred points deducted for not calling them "CHEAP" ideas

if this were 1992 we could be having this argument on a BBS about how all these kids with their mod trackers were not getting the point of industrial

if this were 1992 everything would be more authentic

lol handbag

http://ifihavent.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/djshadow_source591.jpg?w=370

I am trying to picture the target audience and setting for this stuff in Chicago. What kind of crowds and clubs is this music being consumed in?

the wrath of the math

I kinda want to make an excel graph plotting the decline of realness over time against world population growth and increase in average annual temperature

I am trying to picture the target audience. . . for this stuff in Chicago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:William_Ayers.jpg

there are some clubs im sure where its pretty much all that gets played -- like debonair or wherever. but u hear it in all kinds of places -- i think the core audience is DJs and ppl who are like real into the scene. but djs who spin it get good reviews in the reader all the time, and they play it at mainstream-ish lincoln-park-in-wicker-park places like empire liquors, evil olive which gets a pretty diverse crowd, sonotheque, bettys blue star lounge, and of course a gang of different smaller bars like tumans etc ... about the only clubs that i havent heard it in are places like tini martini or dvine which are older-skewing mostly black clubs, and the mexican bars.

im not real familiar w/ the glossier trance clubs.

i think the one relatively diverse scene that doesnt really break this way (if it can avoid it) is straight up house music places like zentra

altho the gayer it gets the MORE it prob skews this way -- i havent been to berlin in awhile but that place was already pretty electro/hipster-y in its music choices when i was there last -- except on prince nite which was X^D

(sorry about the chicagocentric posts but he asked)

late to party but

and this isnt some lol im old bullshit i dont think

everybody says this at first LOL

i still like lots of new music tho -- im bumping the new plies today B-D

Funny thing for me is that this is just about the only way I keep up with popular music.

Otherwise I'd just listen to disco and soft rock all the time.

I'm 24 and this music makes sense to me, but the demographic it attracts makes me feel ancient.

I had a 17 year old tell me that I was the best DJ he'd ever seen in his life, the really sad thing is that it was probably true. He was a small town kid, probably has only seen me and maybe one or two other DJs ever. Maybe he was just really high, I don't know.

I don't have a radio in my car and I don't listen to one at work.

Don't spend much time at stores, so I'm almost completely insulated from pop.

Except for remixes.

my main problem with this kind of music

http://www.ruckersclothing.co.uk/images/uploads/newera-la-cap-white.JPG

fitted caps or los angeles celbculture influence

Aoki does bring out a snarl from me, he and all of the Roxy Cottontail set.

Makes me remember why I hated Vice for so long.

If we're hating on white kids making shitty Baltimore tracks, well I can't really hate. At least they've got some enthusiasm, as opposed to this smug cokehead vibe I get off the LA people.

i actually don't know what this thread is about anymore

enthusiastic white kids with laptops and headphones

also the ipod earbud and 192k VBR as the be-all end-all of sound, do we already have a thread on that?

lets pretend that we do

enthusiastic white kids with laptops and headphones

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:06 AM (35 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

see but its not just white kids -- thats more what this thread is about. equal opportunity to be shitty

If I have some audio technica ad700 and many mp3s ripped at 320k, though guilty of being a white girl with a laptop, am I still killing music?

This thread leaves me very concerned.

i dont know what song are u playing

some bloghouse and madonna

http://www.thorswarriors.com/gifs/guilty.gif

http://i33.tinypic.com/900tab.gif

honest question: is a track like "Bulbs Burn Out" by Boy 8-b1t an example of this genre? Cuz I have kind of a sense that this track was made witha "whatever works" attitude that doesn't hold out any residual auteurism (or Autechrism, to be cheeky)- it's just got rave stabs and a bmore break and is cheap and cheerful . . . is that what is bugging people on this thread?

sorry, no link to track- but check the Boy 8-Bit myspace or something . . .

how do curses and all the trouble & bass stuff fit into this? i really like those guys

xpost, is this dude of the sort being diss-cussed here: http://www.myspace.com/boy8bit

I've noticed that walrus gif matchs almost perfectly when set to this song:

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=oWLlFVmiMrg

I know Curses have shared a bill with Crookers in the past, probably somewhere in London.

I'd say its an affiliate sound at the very least.

Starkey makes stuff that could be mixed with some slightly pitched up MSTRKRFT or whatever, they seem to make a lot of beats in the low to mid 130 BPM range.

And obviously the Night Slugs are somewhere around this vibe as well, though they play mostly funky and bassline mixed with dubstep these days.

Basically if you've spent any significant time on the Hollerboard, you're probably part of this (possibly without even consciously knowing it).

in the clear over here

i wanna dj a party sometime but all i have is a laptop and disco traks i crib from jaxon, am i one of these dudes

disco traxx from jaxon = safe

although -- do u have a loft in downtown sf

no, but i aspire to!

or is that bad

i have an apt with a hottub in mpls

nah thats for the disco/beardo/balaeric dance music they play in lounges

just tell chicks about your acting resume and go straight to the hottub

"why yes, i am a climber-- we should go back to my place and climb into my hot tub while i tell you about it."

Anyone heard the Moves!!! release on Dress 2 Sweat?

This is like you took Vice Records and Diplo and forced them to have many inbred babies.

Grime + Electrohouse + Baltimore = Good Enough For Me

HOW DO YOU GUYS CLASSIFY THESE GUYS

Bassline house = 140 BPM+

Bloghouse = 125-135 BPM

Could be difficult to mix, but like I said the Night Slugs used to do it.

At this point even a Geir post would be welcome

i think geir would like 'day and night'

http://hypem.com/track/700106/Curses!-The+Deep+End+(ft.+Nancy+'LCD+Soundsystem'+%26+Juan+Maclean)+(Holy+Ghost!+Day+School+Dub)

And I'm out.

gbx, bassline != frankenstein

yeah i don't know what the hell is going on

bassline is northern english 140 BPM rigid beat, wobbly synthbass stuff

frankenstein seems to be an (at least mostly) american phenomenon with post-electrohouse synths and bits of baltimore/juke style syncopation in the beats

that's how I break it down to an extent

I am exclusively referring to this subgenre as "frankenstein" from now on

frankmore breaks

frank & beats

how do curses and all the trouble & bass stuff fit into this? i really like those guys

totally

this song kills

frank what did you do to my beats

Trouble & Bass - Drop the Lime / Math Head / + crew

^^^^ my conflicted "lol bloghouse but this is actually good' thread

i saw drop the lime live -- it was one of the most terrible things i ever experienced

way worse than the nights i talked about earlier in this thread - i found it v unlistenable

!!

never seen him live. I like the tracks/mixes I've heard

frank dat

saw trouble & lime (well, specifically curses) live opening for lolmoby in NY and it was super rad. he sang along to his tracks. moby was amazing too. all original rave tracks.

Moby doesn't get enuf love on ilm

Hah, lately I've been thinking about how the Bmore riddim took over American dance music... This IS all over Chi and is very boring and I do see Drop The Lime in this group (show did sorta suck, I think I liked his breakcore better!)... Deej I know you say it's equal opportunity, but it still smells like internet kids ripping off the most obvious sonic signifiers of black subcult dance music so they can play around with it... since there's no interesting "frankenstein subculture" of course this stuff is shallow and directionless. It's not trying to provide meaning to anyone, it's just basically just saying "CHUG CHUG CHUG."

PS thanks for the list of Frankenstein-less venues.

yeah...speaking as a big follower of Baltimore club who knows next to nothing about other kinds of dance music, it's totally weird and kind of bummer from the other side of things too. like, in a way that it's cool that it's influencing people, but what was amazing about the genre was how much it developed in a totally insular and localized way for so long, even up to like 2006-ish with certain production trends specific to a handful of Baltimore guys...now, the Hollertronixification of the scene has kind of affected it inside and out, where even dudes who've never left Maryland are acutely aware of how much people all over the world love the stuff, and are actually trying to cater to that audience with more synthy Euro sounds and cutesy samples...and that part can still yield interesting results, but the way 'bmore' has become this generic adjective for a very specific and somewhat representative sliver of what that genre encompasses and is very easily copied by anyone anywhere in a laptop has imo kind of diluted what was once a pretty clearly defined geographically based community.

Which is why I stay far far away from the faux club stuff.

At least with Fidget I know where its coming from: the West End of London, and as far as I can tell most of the original people came out deep house and broken beat, maybe some breaks.

I think I'll just stick with cherry picking the best out of the new mid-tempo balearic electrohouse scene and mixing it with what I can stand out of the more aggro distorted stuff.

I'm still a fan of Potty Mouth and Trouble and Bass, and Starkey occasionally.

"yeah...speaking as a big follower of Baltimore club who knows next to nothing about other kinds of dance music, it's totally weird and kind of bummer from the other side of things too. like, in a way that it's cool that it's influencing people, but what was amazing about the genre was how much it developed in a totally insular and localized way for so long, even up to like 2006-ish with certain production trends specific to a handful of Baltimore guys...now, the Hollertronixification of the scene has kind of affected it inside and out, where even dudes who've never left Maryland are acutely aware of how much people all over the world love the stuff, and are actually trying to cater to that audience with more synthy Euro sounds and cutesy samples...and that part can still yield interesting results, but the way 'bmore' has become this generic adjective for a very specific and somewhat representative sliver of what that genre encompasses and is very easily copied by anyone anywhere in a laptop has imo kind of diluted what was once a pretty clearly defined geographically based community.

― the rev (al sharpton ha ha) (some dude)"

when i say this same thing about house and techno music, people think that's not a valid viewpoint. the longer the knockoffs are around and the greater they are in numbers, the more they begin to write the popular opinion. which is of course pretty retarded.

i dont think ppl disagree with it when u say it pipecock. ive certainly never heard u say anything remotely as charitable as and that part can still yield interesting results

welcome back btw

http://i7.tinypic.com/3zv8rj8.jpg

"more people listen to [techno and house], so it has diluted what was once a pretty clearly defined geographically based community" = well duh

If baltimore club music became an international movement with thousands of DJs and artists and hundreds of thousands of listeners over the course of 20 years or so, complaining about people not remembering the insular local scene back in the day would start to lose its force as a rhetorical gesture.

I want to return to deej's point upthread: "like i would say this stuff doesnt sound gay enough except apparently its real big at queer nites around here too."

The key to this is that queer nights often define themselves as oppositional vis a vis "gay dance music". I don't much tend to like queer nights from a musical perspective (the crowd is usually younger and hotter though, albeit scruffier) whereas a lot of my friends eulogize over how open-minded the music policy is.

"i dont think ppl disagree with it when u say it pipecock. ive certainly never heard u say anything remotely as charitable as and that part can still yield interesting results

welcome back btw

― ohhhh we pop champagne (deej)"

i never deny that there isnt some good music coming from the spread of house and techno, just that the good things are few and far between, especially when compared to the people still making the good shit from the cities where it started. i bought a Lowtec record on Workshop this year, thats gotta give me some Euro cred, right?

thanks, hopefully i'll be around for a couple weeks here in between semesters. if i'm lucky, things wont be too crazy in the spring semester and i wont have to disappear ;)

oh hey pipecock's here time to unbookmark this thread now

http://intheouter.net/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/img_fewgoodmen.jpg

I was trying to think of an example of this stuff that I'm not really down with.

And no offense to Nick Catchdubs but his latest mix for XLR8R is it.

http://www.xlr8r.com/podcast/2008/09/nick-catchdubs-sound-way-out-0
1 Hostage "Rooted" (White)
02 The Prodigy "Funky Shit" (XL)
03 DJ Blaqstarr "Bang" (Mad Decent)
04 Tittsworth "Black Dynamite" (T&A)
05 Devone "Energy (Danny Daze Rework)" (White)
06 A-Trak & Laidback Luke "Shake It Down" (Fool's Gold)
07 Tim Dolla "Swing Dat" (Brick Bandits)
08 Mixix The Cat "Freeze (Drop The Lime Remix)" (Trouble & Bass)
09 Trackademicks "Enjoy What You Do (Shadow Dancer Remix)" (Fool's Gold)
10 Martin Brothers "Rocket Science" (dirtybird)
11 Sawtooth Sucka "Radio Check (Johnny Fiasco Mix)" (Dotbleep)
12 Popof "Alcolic" (C2)
13 Nacho Lovers "Acid Life (Surkin Remix)" (Fool's Gold)

A "rave valentine to the Beastie Boys" apparently.

The Dirtybird track and Drop the Lime remix being the notable exceptions.

yeah see i see that tracklisting and even though i know none of the tracks on it it basically makes me want to NOT hear it in the worst possible way ... let's see

hostage "rooted" - OK not sure if this is what's going on here but "rooted" is early 90s teenage california slang for "oh snap", might as well call a song "radical bmx bandits", tryhard and twee
the prodigy - do not want
"mad decent" - corny slang
tittsworth - stupid name, sounds like a last name of an annoying character from monty python
"danny daze rework" - what's with the porn-y producer names? makes me think of guidos from LA
a-trak & laidback luke - hello, it's the 90s calling
tim dolla "swing dat" - more corny rap slang
mixix the cat - is this a duet with paula abdul or what?
trackademicks - sounds like a particularly wack line of hoodies sold in stores that sell breakdancing how-to DVDs and skate shoes
dirtybird - hands-down most generic and boring fidget house label
sawtooth sucka - even more corny rap slang!
popof - stupid name
nacho lovers "acid life" - stupid name + played-out reference to acid house

see also "brick bandits" - these dudes rival the european chiptune / 8-bit scene for sheer studied corniness

anyway norman mailer to thread

i liked that surkin song 'white knights two' a lot, from earlier this year.

Sawtooth Sucka is Lee Mortimer's alias, I remember most of it being alright.

As an experiment listen to it and report back?

intro from "wild style" - played out
1. ok i like this in theory. except the stupid overdriven bassline. actually it's okay when they chop it up. the jimmy smith sample is also played, though.
2. if i'm going to listen to big beat, i'd rather listen to the wiseguys or midfield general or bentley rhythm ace or ... this is pretty bad.
3. don't see the appeal of this. there's gotta be much better baltimore club music than blaqstarr. why is he so popular?
4. hey, this is fantastic! i especially like the synth-y part that comes in after the breakdown ... but please lose the n-bombs, white boy
5. this is awful. devone : jesse saunders :: primal scream : rolling stones
6. like i said, i would've been cool with this in the 90s when i was listening to lots of neil landstrumm type gear.
7. sinden & herve's "don't give a damn" makes all fidget-housey sampling of lil jon irrelevant
8. this is less funky than caspa & rusko, even.
9. hate to resort to overdone slang ... but, really? "party like robin leach"? where did they get this guy? RIP disco d.
10. boring
11. BOOOOORING
12. i'm skipping around in itunes now, i'm so bored.
13. when everyone else was buying miss kittin records, i bought all four volumes of "the perfect beats"! hooray for me! BOOOOORING.

13. when everyone else was buying miss kittin records, i bought all four volumes of "the perfect beats"! hooray for me! BOOOOORING.

ok i was with u but this actually sounds dope & was also true of me

http://partyends.com/blog/?p=882
http://partyends.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/135_-project-pat-keep-it-hood.mp3
btw this is an exact example of what im talking about it except it seems pretty well mastered, like no shitty qual engineering
but the song is shitty, loses everything good about the original, doesnt seem to get when you're supposed to 'release' after the 'build'
the farty bass doesnt actually seem to relate to the melody of the sample, like its totally emotionless, just bland non-mood. and who the fuck dances to "hustling section eight" that would also know who bird peterson is

theres a section at the end where it just lets the chorus play over that bassline and it actually sounds all right -- but he only lets it play once & its after the song has been pulling u around the entire time

martin brothers just sounds like someone slapped parts of a villalobos track on top of a sami koivikko track without regard to flow or vibe

sawtooth sucka i guess has a beat that would've acceptable a few years ago at the height of the classic / music for freak boompty boomp peak. what have they done to improve on the formula? some intentionally nasty grating synths to appeal to the boyz noize crowd? sorry, not *that* impressed. i've heard soooooo much stuff in this style that's better.

the popof track is just bad. same deal with the boompty beats, now with annoying 8-bit noises and wobble bass out of dubstep.

i don't know, it just sounds like people are throwing together shit that doesn't even make sense together for the hell of it. i'm trying to imagine actually dancing to this music - somehow it seems like all of the "swing" in the music is terribly foreshortened. like instead of actually making a beat that swings, it all sounds so ... rushed. like, not sloppily made, but the beats and bleeps and whatnot are all just crammed in there without any space or anything. it doesn't have that half-time swing feeling of hardcore or millsian techno.

the farty bass doesnt actually seem to relate to the melody of the sample

YES

13. when everyone else was buying miss kittin records, i bought all four volumes of "the perfect beats"! hooray for me! BOOOOORING.

ok i was with u but this actually sounds dope & was also true of me

― ohhhh we pop champagne (deej)

game recognize game

[/hypocrite]

trying to imagine dancing to this type of music in a club, and all i can imagine is standing around doing nothing for long stretches of time, and then in the really hectic wobble bass parts just spastically waving one around while holding a drink in the other. and i'd be wearing a big hoody, fluorescent plastic sunglasses and a rainbow printed fitted way up on my head. which is basically what i was surrounded by in the "hip" clubs in san diego looked like when i stopped going out three years ago.

i think that gets at what i dont like about it -- i feel like, when im dancing to this stuff, theres an awful lot of dicking around with the beat with no functional purpose, like they're doing it because its what you're supposed to do w/ a remix, and as a dancer you're just sort of like "ok i get the point, move on plz" ------ a lot of dance music uses this sort of thing to build tension and it seems like when its dance music i like that tension, and your patience, is rewarded bcuz eventually there's this big release, but that never seems to come on this stuff. Instead the 'release' is solely the point at which u go "oh i know this song!! but it doesnt sound like the version i know!!" instead of, you know, an actual musical release. Instead the song just dicks you around for a long time, chopping up vocals and repeating sections but never really congealing into a solid idea

sorry if im overwriting this but im genuinely having trouble understanding it at a, like, primal level, not the cerebral/removed/lol old one.

this track you linked is still better than 90% of the stuff on orko's podcast IMO

should read

"and it seems like when its dance music i like, that tension and your patience is rewarded"

ha its kinda growing on me to be honest u_u -- but it still seems sort of randomly structured, like i want to open it in audacity and do a bunch of C+Ping

like i want to open it in audacity and do a bunch of C+Ping

i hate to validate disco nihilist / tombot style grousing about production technology but i am sort of coming around to their take on software vs hardware

why bother concentrating on programming rhythm when you can just take an mp3s and chop them to bits on your laptop? then it just becomes a matter of showing off your taste in your "productions" rather than, i dunno, musicality or something. no surprise then, that this music is like the domain of blogger dudes who check turntablelab every day?

looking forward to when pipecock rejoins us lol

looking forward to getting a killfile working

millsian techno dudes : "i can tweak a kick drum better than the next guy"

blog house dudes: "i have more regional rap / third world dance music mp3s than the next guy"

moonship whats some populist dance music you dig this year
interpret populist however you want. but by dance music i mean, like, dance music

"watch my feet"

"cha cha slide"

fuck, those are from last year

"township funk"

http://www.amazon.com/Township-Funk/dp/B001EIKLCO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1229054661&sr=8-1

this?^^^^

yeah, that's probably my track of the year (it's my ringtone, anyway)

seriously, though, it's been a pretty bad year for dance music. if you look at say, the BBC's essential mix, a lot of the mixes are repeats of "classic" mixes from the 90s or early 00s. and then if you take out the 1/3 of them that are same-old same-old trance or progressive house the remaining mixes are something like 50% old tracks. you look at someone like, i dunno, simian mobile disco or crookers or riton or whatever other hot new producer and it's sort of stunning how they lean on old classic house, acid or techno.

i guess that explains why i've spent the year either listening non-populist stuff like space disco or balearic revival or edits, and blatantly non-dance music like dub techno and the dubby end of dubstep. and tons of old, old, old music.

2008 = Even that crazy new experimental shit was too conservative.

My theory is that 2008 breaks down like this:

1) Too much of what is good and popular is not populist (nu-deep-minimal; space disco/balearic for the most part; upmarket dubstep)
2) Too much of what is good and populist is not popular (UK funky house)
3) Too much of what is popular and populist is not good (blog-house/frankendance; downmarket dubstep)

i'd probably be more into funky and bassline if i could actually HEAR any of it. i'm just too old and busy (and married) to spend all night downloading mp3s.

tim you need to send me some CDs again!

Tracks that give me some hope for some interesting things in the future.

Hrdvsion - Playing For Keeps (Daddy's Angel)

Proof that obnoxious noise sometimes can bring the funk.

Boys Noize - Shine Shine (Apparat Remix)

Proof that all this indie electro isn't universally underproduced.

And even though its just electrohouse ZZT's The Worm (Erol Alkan edit) just fucking rules.

do people still make electrohouse?

Tiga and Zombie Nation do apparently, it definitely splits the difference between 2004 and 2008 though.

3. don't see the appeal of this. there's gotta be much better baltimore club music than blaqstarr. why is he so popular?

dude is a genius and changed the game in so many ways, but yeah he's not very representative or the best per se, and "Bang" is not really a club song and also one of his worst songs.

what are the good songs

Tote It, Get My Gun, Hands Up Thumbs Down, Ryda Gyrl, Slyde, Supastarr, In The Air, Stop, Check Me Out Like, Crazy Leg Wit It, Rockstarrz, Automatic Lover, Put Ya Gun In Da Air, Get Your Hands Up

and how did he change the game

mostly in the vocals (creepy falsetto leads and super-layered wordless chants) but also the way he used drums (really innovated as far as Baltimore club with all kicks and hi-hats, no snares or breakbeats) and synths, he basically flipped the scene on its ear around '05-'06.

"tim you need to send me some CDs again!"

Okay! Will try to make actual delivery more prompt than last time.

hay ill take cds from tim but feel free to send them in sendshare form

And this is what I ride for.

http://www.factmagazine.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1618&Itemid=28

1. Karizma - Broken Beats
2. Rapid - Report To The Dancefloor
3. DJ Mystery - Changes
4. Lil Silva - Funky Flex
5. Conan Liquid - One Time (For Your Mind)
6. Geeneus - Yellowtail
7. D1 - Ongie Bongie
8. D Malice - Monopoly
9. L-Vis & Bok Bok - Bongo Jam Refix
10. Crazy Cousinz - Infiltration
11. L-Vis 1990 - Flux
12. Rod Lee - Let The Horns Go
13. Moves!! - All Skate
14. Silverlink - The Message Is Love (L-Vis 1990 Dub)
15. DJ Zinc - Ghosttrain
16. Bok Bok - No Need To Front 2009
17. Ikonika - Please
18. Kode 9 vs LD - Bad
19. Hunger Pains - In Middle (DJ Slugo Remix)
20. Drop The Lime - Hear Me (Buraka Som Sistema Remix)
21. L-Vis 1990 - The Night Slug

D1 had a joint i loved earlier this year -- lemme see if i can find it

there it go

havent checked yr mix yet but this D1

...oops

this D1 is not frankendance

btw DJ Slugo is 'real schitt' club music here in chicago -- real well known dude who plays 'actual' juke shit -- i guess sorta like rod lee?

i dunno that mix looks kinda interesting just from the tracklist dude -- but including funky house even suggests this isnt typical frankendance stuff

Well Bok Bok has got no use for fidget.

But its kind of the vibe that I find exceptable, mostly purist with a smattering of awareness of other genres thrown in. I just don't live in London or Chicago or Baltimore so I'm not quite sure how to approach it myslef.

xpost. you're talking about the same D1 as is in the mix, which looks to me like mainly UK tings/dubstep etc, not really very frankensteiny if i'm not mistaken?

I'm loving is maybe my 12" of the year.

Yeah, its mostly a funky mix with some other stuff thrown in for flavor.

is 'i'm lovin' really dubstep?? i must have a weird misconception of dubstep

Its dubstep in a perfect world, D1 has always been on his own tip really.

His early beats were really heavily techno influence (way before it was the in thing).

And recently he's had a huge fun house side to him.

well the ideal for dubstep is that it's anything at around 140 bpm with a big sub and a bit of swing but yeah, obviously most of it doesn't sound like "i'm loving" which is a lot more like funky and house etc.

or what siah said.

'I'm Loving' sounds like classic house music to me. It has a lot of 88-92 touches to it (strings and other keys, bongos, the rhythm of the bass, not to mention the vocals). I really like it.

you almost had me with

"i hate to validate disco nihilist / tombot style grousing about production technology but i am sort of coming around to their take on software vs hardware

why bother concentrating on programming rhythm when you can just take an mp3s and chop them to bits on your laptop? then it just becomes a matter of showing off your taste in your "productions" rather than, i dunno, musicality or something. no surprise then, that this music is like the domain of blogger dudes who check turntablelab every day?

― moonship journey to baja"

but then you had to go all

"seriously, though, it's been a pretty bad year for dance music."

and

"i guess that explains why i've spent the year either listening non-populist stuff like space disco or balearic revival or edits, and blatantly non-dance music like dub techno and the dubby end of dubstep. and tons of old, old, old music.

― moonship journey to baja"

and i realised that we are not on the same page at all.

pretty sure he killfiled you, dude

"pretty sure he killfiled you, dude

― what is my attitude (gbx)"

i'll send you a memo when i give a fuck

Unfortunately you are both on the same page.

also^ redundant.

Pipecock doesn't give a fuck about anything except hearing his own voice bounced off others opinions. That much is obvious.

i dont think they were on the same page at any pt.

moonship is saying its bland how little 'musicality' (which i take to be a sorta-myopic term that talks about how the tracks are constructed?) these guys are trying to incorporate where pipecock is arguing the same bland position as the hipster djs but from the other side, that the ONLY interestin thing about dance artists is a focus on this 'musicality'/craft etc

took that night slug mix out running today and thought it was sorta ruthless and boring.

yah i started listening to it and it was feeling pretty same-y to me too -- but not offensive in the same way frankendance is

more like tasteful "check out how they sequenced these drum patterns - pretty cool huh" -- not v. populist which frankenhouse aims for

I think Tim would feel some level of vindication regarding that mix.

I like it, but it does represent a more macho (and outsider) take on UK Funky compared to say what Footloose is DJing. It shares a lot of Marcus Nasty's approach to the genre.

But the big distorted basslines in parts are straight out of bloghouse so I thought it was appropriate, even if the guys who made it would disavow any influence from that direction.

I meant a HTML page deej. It was meant to be a funny.

"Pipecock doesn't give a fuck about anything except hearing his own voice bounced off others opinions. That much is obvious.

― fandango"

i'm interested in people having ideas that are a little less moronic than whether a music is populist or not. there's a difference between populist and bullshit, this music doesnt seem to recognize that. people actually like good things when they hear them instead of just hearing the same old same old that every hip joker likes to toss out there. is listening to dubstep and the non-dance genre of dub techno (?!?!) really someone's reaction to how terrible shit like this is? there's no middle ground of people making music that is actually good and fun to dance to without being completely retarded?

"pipecock is arguing the same bland position as the hipster djs but from the other side, that the ONLY interestin thing about dance artists is a focus on this 'musicality'/craft etc"

is that really what i'm saying? how does my love of Dance Mania to the point of near obsession jive with this theory of yours?

"more like tasteful "check out how they sequenced these drum patterns - pretty cool huh" -- not v. populist which frankenhouse aims for

― ohhhh we pop champagne (deej)"

if cool drum patterns are not populist, how was jungle or 2-step ever chart music in the UK? who invented this line of thinking that for dance to be populist it must be as bad as possible?

http://www.abundantlifefamilychurch.com/images/jive/images_jive/logo_jive.jpg

no one has answers to my questions. somehow i'm not surprised.

Nobody cares what you have to say. Somehow I'm not surprised.

"Nobody cares what you have to say. Somehow I'm not surprised.

― Matt DC"

except for the thousands of visitors to my blog and the people who pay me to write for them.

FACE

omg

http://widgets.alexa.com/traffic/graph/?r=6m&y=r&z=1&h=300&w=470&c=1&u%5B%5D=infinitestatemachine.com&x=2008-12-15T04%3A00%3A24.000Z&check=www.alexa.com&signature=C0srrlYi%2BWVx%2Fen7gqBykJOtsFQ%3D

hmmmm

was that a pic of your mom giving me a hummer?

ew evan why do you have a pic of your mom blowing pipecock

no u dummy it's a pic of when my mom bought him an suv

oh haha your mom is so nice!!!

should've given him a hybrid

which was then hosted by the web information company, alexa.com

"should've given him a hybrid

― 808s & heartdrake (J0rdan S.)"

is that what you call it when she sticks her finger up your butt while giving you a hummer?

she did it as payment for some stuff pipecock wrote about dance music for her

i couldn't believe that i had come across my mom's favorite dj/critic right here on ILM!!! "omg," indeed :)

she is only one of thousands of visitors to his blog

i'm mad populist like that

what is this button next to "Permalink"?

"what is this button next to "Permalink"?

― beggin-ass keith (The Reverend)"

wow, ban me. that sure would be too bad. how could i ever live? i guess it would be slighly less fun not being able to terrorize you pussies, but i think i'd be able to get over it.

in fact i just voted to ban myself. let's do it you fucking pussies, put your money where your mouth is. prove you've got something between your legs you bad motherfuckers. don't let me come in here and do as i please.

we need 50 ppl to suggest ban u but that would require 50 ppl reading your posts

which is obv a quite bit less than the thousands of visitors to your blog

oh noes! i guess that's not gonna happen then, eh? too bad for you guys.

pipecock is going to terrorize you pussies

http://www.sitemeter.com/?a=stats&s=s41therealshit

"pipecock is going to terrorize you pussies

― beggin-ass keith (The Reverend)"

unlike how i terrorize your mom's pussy

how clever, your way with words is astounding!

actually, it's funny. the more shit i talk on forums like this, the higher my traffic goes. this is not only fun, but it gets more readers. it's wonderful how life works out sometimes.

"how clever, your way with words is astounding!

― beggin-ass keith (The Reverend)"

i'm a professional, what can i say?

"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."

crazy strategy - clearly all of us here on ilx are looking for a blog dedicated to fighting the status quo by covering all the music we love and showing how it is all interrelated.

http://a603.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/35/l_c470a46ac6e5febeaddcab9e69e067e2.jpg

Famous blogger pipecock contemplates the music he loves and how it is all interrelated

come on, jordan, you should know that dillawall.jpg is the canonical pipecock pic

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/WidowOfDestiny/Jiggle_Panda.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/WidowOfDestiny/Jiggle_Panda.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/WidowOfDestiny/Jiggle_Panda.gif
http://a248.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/15/l_f7ab63f002ab9661dbea15d23ab5e6bf.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/WidowOfDestiny/Jiggle_Panda.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/WidowOfDestiny/Jiggle_Panda.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/WidowOfDestiny/Jiggle_Panda.gif

so many meme possibilities in this thread!

can't believe ppl would suggest-ban pipecock

i started making a frankendance track on saturday, altho really it is a S.U.A.D. homage

i hate to validate disco nihilist / tombot style grousing about production technology but i am sort of coming around to their take on software vs hardware

why bother concentrating on programming rhythm when you can just take an mp3s and chop them to bits on your laptop? then it just becomes a matter of showing off your taste in your "productions" rather than, i dunno, musicality or something. no surprise then, that this music is like the domain of blogger dudes who check turntablelab every day?

One of the things that has changed with the democratization of production technology is that it is brought down the length of apprenticeship considerably. Theo Parrish once said that if you want to be a producer you should just be a dancer for a few years, then become a DJ for a few years, and then start making music. I agree with this because it gives you a working knowledge of the whole picture of dance music and actually make you a part of a subculture with a working vocabulary.

You can make good music on hardware or software or a combo of both but you have to know what you are doing. It is a lot easier to just grab chunks of audio and warp it to a beat than it is to actually sit down and program or play a beat. That is why people mention the fact that people's samples don't fit together or that their productions don't actually flow up thread. Ableton can be great tool if you know what you are doing on a technical(knob twiddling) and a musical(the actual ideas underneath the production) level. The problem is that you can get a cracked copy of Live and Soundforge and start sending audio out to your social network within a couple weeks of fooling around. You might not get good results, but you can get results very quickly.

Most of the examples of the bad stuff on this thread are just people cutting up their collection and stitching it back up in Ableton in really unclever ways. It is just a mish mash of off key synth loops, blocky drum loop that swerve all over because the producer can't write variation in their drums(they can't program so they just grab loops and they don't have the skill to chop them ala pete rock), and bad stabs that aren't really rhythmic or melodic.

I think the other thing is that people go from joining the audience to creating content very quickly. If you dance for years you are going to have a physical understanding of the psychology of the dance floor. Your body will know why some rhythms work and others don't. You would also have an understanding of why you play a certain record at a certain time and how to make music ebb and flow in a continuous way. You are also going to stick around long enough to really get to know the music and spread your taste around. I can think of people who either got into the music and got out once they stopped doing the drugs or they only got into one tiny aspect of it(one micro genre) and then left once they got bored with it. I think that is good because they didn't have real love and they didn't have enough perspective to bring their own voice to the table. Nowadays some of these people would be making music and DJ'ing on their laptop and adding untold layers on top of crap that we have to wade through these days.

It is hard for me to say how the actual culture works on the ground because it seems to be a mash up of several different directions and it seems that some directions work better than others. I don't like the fidget stuff but I can see why it would work and what it is going after. The amateur hour b-more/juke stuff just leaves me scratching my head. I have seen enough of the hipster dance scene in Austin to know that I am not interested in being a part of it on a musical level(the only thing I can interface with since I don't drug anymore, I don't wear the clothes and I am not interested in the people...). Then it was JUSTICE, some b-more and mash-ups trainwrecked together on laptops and now I imagine it is the same shit with slightly different sonic wallpaper. People were on the same cheap Mexican coke and booze like every other club downtown.

That being said, I also know that I need to accept the fact that this stuff isn't coming from the dance music continuum and it shouldn't be judged according to the same criteria. If anything this stuff is probably the North American version of grime. It has a lot of the same weaknesses and will probably have about the same longevity as a genre. I can't really get upset about this stuff because it is going to go away as quickly as it came. At some point there is going to be a sea change in music like the amped rock band was to the big band in the 50's or disco was to cabaret music in NYC in the 70's. This stuff isn't it.

I'd love to wave my cane around and tell these kids to get off my lawn, but this just isn't enough of a threat to justify that attitude.

If anything this stuff is probably the North American version of grime.

I should clarify that I mean that from a production stand point. I understand that the MC angle isn't there and that the class issue isn't there in most cases.

Correct me if I am wrong, but frankendance does seem to have a strong working class/poor angle to it. Regional hip-hop and commercial R&B fill that niche in NA regardless of race in urban areas.

i think saying its not gonna last as long is probably pretty wrong. kids with guitars, kids with synthesizers, daft punk is the new nirvana, whatever

Correct me if I am wrong, but frankendance does seem to have a strong working class/poor angle to it. Regional hip-hop and commercial R&B fill that niche in NA regardless of race in urban areas.

― that song on a freebie compilation I got when I ordered a pizza. (Display Name), Monday, December 15, 2008 5:57 AM (46 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it genuinely seems to cross from both working class / poor to middle class / slumming here. it has a broad-based but niche (clubgoing) audience.

Correct me if I am wrong, but frankendance doesn't seem to have a strong working class/poor angle to it. Regional hip-hop and commercial R&B fill that niche in NA regardless of race in urban areas.

it genuinely seems to cross from both working class / poor to middle class / slumming here. it has a broad-based but niche (clubgoing) audience.

And that is why I have asked clarification questions up thread because this stuff is being used in different ways in different places. This stuff would be played to hipster's in Austin and there might be an economic range within that subculture but it is still within that tiny sliver of clubs.

Texas/Houston rap music is the default club music of younger poor/minority down here. Thugs are not bumping bmore out here.

well its niche music but post-kanye, at least in chicago, it has diverse appeal. it doesnt have popular appeal but its not the dominant pop music in the 'burbs either.

"One of the things that has changed with the democratization of production technology is that it is brought down the length of apprenticeship considerably. Theo Parrish once said that if you want to be a producer you should just be a dancer for a few years, then become a DJ for a few years, and then start making music. I agree with this because it gives you a working knowledge of the whole picture of dance music and actually make you a part of a subculture with a working vocabulary."

I feel this is so OTM, but I wonder if it's because I'm still in the "dancer" phase so like any argument which validates my lack of progression.

i guess Theo Parrish would make an exception for Ron Trent and any other people who made big tunes before they were old enough to actually get into most clubs. it's an understandable, even reasonable pov but it's also very much tedious rockism. the amateurish Fun side of popular dance music has always yielded good and bad. i agree about the democratisation/accessibility saturation thing but there are so many bad records made by competent musical guys anyway.

I don't like the apprenticeship aspect so much as the idea of approaching dance music from the perspective of a dancer. But then I would.

i kind of feel like its the point. i would approach djing from the perspective of a dancer also

still i suspect you can be a bad dancer but still make good dance tracks (for some reason the Chemical Brothers were the first to spring to mind here).

and have you ever seen Jeff Mills at a wedding? pretty embarrassing...

What is the ratio of Ron Trent's vs just flat out bad amateurs. 1000 to 1, 10,000 to 1, perhaps 30,000 to one these days...can you even find the Ron Trent's that are buried/ignored in all the shit that comes out today?

The myth of the Sex Pistols is really great(and it's a myth because Matlock could write, and the 2nd line up could actually could play) but do you really want to listen to every copy cat punk recording that came after it for the next 5 years? A ton of gems came out of that era, but so did a lot of crap. The most of the gems were not done in a vacuum, there were a lot of skilled people involved even if their pictures were not on the covers of the records.

I don't want to live in a world where the police enforce criteria on creative work but I am also not going to say that unlimited access to content creation and easy access to distribute the content is a good thing. Obviously there is a balance and the idea of a good music tribunal is abhorrent. It is their right to make bad music and it is my right to bitch about it.

true. to me it is much like going on flickr to search for photos and seeing the most relevant ones are all unsubtle really poorly done HDR shots with 8000 views, 500 faves and 67 comments half of which embed the tackiest 'award' gifs ever.

I don't like the apprenticeship aspect so much as the idea of approaching dance music from the perspective of a dancer. But then I would.

It isn't a romantic way to look at it, but it is a good metaphor. In a lot of ways I think music production is a skilled trade. That is why I think the apprenticeship system is good. You start dancing, then you hand out fliers and carry records, and then you learn about mixing and throwing parties and then you get to know producers and learn from them and then you make your music. Back in the day in Detroit there was a system that you went through to learn the big picture and if you stuck around long enough you got to wear every hat.

It was the same as rock music, and I don't think there is anything wrong with a informal body of knowledge being passed through a subculture. The problem with computer production is that it is often done solo and it doesn't bring you into contact with other people that have different specialization in music. That is one of the things that I love about disco records. You can hear the contributions of several different people in one project. It seems like you could learn so much from being in a room with session guys and a producer who could give you pointers on how to make your records better. There isn't anything like that now for underground dance music.

Jeff Mills is a perfect example of this system at work. I love the way his face lights up when he talks about the dance records of the early 80's.

I don't think you need to be a great dancer but you should know what it feels like to get lost in the music on a dance floor.

To be clear, I don't have a real issue with apprenticeship in this context, I just don't think it's crucial. Or, perhaps rather, the issue is that an overemphasis on apprenticeship can create a very linear form of artistic succession - to use your example again, for every groundbreaker, there's a thousand musicians faithfully recreating the standards.

Whereas I tend to think that being a performer is or should be kinda like a more intense version of being a member of the audience. And the great thing about being a member of the audience - especially on the dancefloor - is that you're caught up in this experience which is at once communal and individualistic, hearing what others are hearing but also mishearing it in a way that is personal to you. It's in the tension b/w that communal tradition and the differential articulation of it in your own head that then allows you as a musician to make interesting, distinct music. There's an interplay there.

The non-audience aspects of apprenticeship to my mind are secondary that; or maybe it's that they are components of this process already. I think doing something like promoting a club night because you feel an allegiance to a particular sound or style is an intermediary step between dancing and creating, insofar as you're advocating for a version of the music that you're hearing in your head.

went to a party on sat and they were playing all frankendace - btw there were many hot chix there - everyone was talking abt it

the chicks or the frankendance

the chix - there were no ilxors there to be tedious with - everyone just dancing getting wasted or whatever

i did actually try to talk abt the music :/

im sorry i like to talk about dancing and dance music bro

Talking about dancing is like architecture about music or something like that.

architecture about music sounds pretty good

or... looks pretty good!

the Experience Music Project begs to disagree

http://www.thecityreview.com/phaid55.jpg

^dope

are you kidding me? It's the ugliest building I've ever seen

fuck Frank Gehry forever

what will future civilizations think

whoa hay rev take yr sex fantasies to tmi plz!

frankentecture

smash Frank Gehry forever

frankengehry

that is a totally dope building

it's a fucking eyesore... it's basically the archetectural equivelent of all the neon bullshit this thread is about

I can't believe y'all are riding for the EMP.

are those blue strips solar panels?

dunno

I don't think so, and I can't seem to find any evidence on google that they are

That being said, I also know that I need to accept the fact that this stuff isn't coming from the dance music continuum and it shouldn't be judged according to the same criteria.

See, this is OTM. As dance music it's fail because of the boring thudding beat and the lack of flow that all the glitchy bits and sudden changes of direction induce. But not all nightclubs play dance music. Rock clubs have been around for years. And when you look at audience reaction to these tunes it's very like audience reaction to rock tunes in bars/clubs - there's a brief roar of excitement and possibly some bouncing around in a manner somewhat independent of the rhythm of the track and then it subsides again. Frankendance just tries to compress as many of those rushy moments into the night as possible.

I think this is a great example of how useless the term "dance" has become. The first nail in the coffin was hip-hop which wasn't acknowledged as being "dance" music despite people dancing to it. Now we've got lots of music which sonically ought to be dance music (hefty beats etc) but functionally isn't...

good point^

yeah now you can have dance music that people don't ever dance to, because a couple decades ago people danced to music that wasn't called dance music! totally on your wavelength

yeah! now that you mention it I realise that rock has nothing to do with geology either.

i agree that a lot of this music resembles rock in some ways

I'm still thinking that a lot of the complaints that revolve around lack of groove still come down to unimaginative deejaying. Maybe deej had the right idea earlier in the thread and some quick and nasty edits might have some benefit here?

Anyways I'm listening to Fake Blood at the moment, like his bass sounds.

And this is really old news but anyone give a shit about the Machines Don't Care album?

Blue strips aren't solar panels. They are decoration meant to evoke tangled strings on a broken guitar. (???) EMP is hideous, but I don't think that has much to do with its success/failure as urban object/public space. Its intent is to be "fun", and it succeeds on that level, in a ghastly sort of way. That said, they really do need to lose the ribbons.

success is always ghastly contenderizer trust me

this is an interesting thread

who listens to this kind of thing, huh?

That being said, I also know that I need to accept the fact that this stuff isn't coming from the dance music continuum and it shouldn't be judged according to the same criteria.

yeah

especially in terms of the midwestern US, there is no cohesive scene or fundamental set of ideas that drives this sort of music

it's just a bunch of lonely, isolated young people who seem barely aware of each other, let alone any sense of context or history to what they're doing

words like "bloghouse" that have been coined to describe this kind of thing are like the word "hipster" in that the essential meaning of the word is different from region to region - it's not like europe where there's any kind of aesthetic/historic/social continuity to it

it's less a genre than a vast collection of iChat file transfer windows that self-styled tastemakers occasionally try to pass off as a format

the minneapolis people mentioned in the thread are erol alkan acolytes and not really representative of the types of DJs that really push this kind of music, like the ones from chicago

also i mean you can finger big beat for birthing this but as far as i'm concerned the beastie boys have a lot to answer for here

i imagine that shoegaze playlist DJ is involved somewhere

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd120/hipsterrunoff/cover-1.jpg

are people really shortening blog house to 'blouse'?

no

im into the idea of music called blouse - dont think bloghouse is quite the right sound tho

only thing that bugs me about the cudi/crookers joint is the way crookers won't let the vocal lines end naturally and does that really wanky, arhythmic cutup shit with them

this is a classic thread. i like how it balances the tensions of the keepin it positive jocular humor i <3 cricket crew w/ the serious dance musics discussion crew, input from the jackoff sesh regs, the dance nerd posse & an explosive interruption from pipecock

plus,

wow, ban me. that sure would be too bad. how could i ever live? i guess it would be slighly less fun not being able to terrorize you pussies, but i think i'd be able to get over it.

― pipecock, Monday, December 15, 2008 1:18 AM (9 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

in fact i just voted to ban myself. let's do it you fucking pussies, put your money where your mouth is. prove you've got something between your legs you bad motherfuckers. don't let me come in here and do as i please.

― pipecock, Monday, December 15, 2008 1:20 AM (9 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

You didn't quote "unlike how i terrorize your mom's pussy"

keepin it positive jocular humor i <3 cricket crew w/ the serious dance musics discussion crew, input from the jackoff sesh regs, the dance nerd posse

breakdown of who is in each clique, pls

or at least just tell me which one i fall into

keepin it positive jocular humor i <3 cricket crew

max
ice cream
lamp

the serious dance musics discussion crew

vahid
tim f
matt dc
rtc
lex
blueski

(? basically the funky house crew)

input from the jackoff sesh regs

me
rev
deej
surfboard dudes totally (?)

the dance nerd posse

not sure how this is different than the other group? i guess ppl i've never heard of

j@cob
w i l l
siah alan
display name

(?)

poll

Dance nerd reporting in, how do you all feel about the Salem remixes of Gucci Mane?

http://www.thefader.com/2009/10/01/salem-remix-gucci-mane/

Yes, I know its the Fader, I'm sorry OK?

i dunno if he's on this thread (i'm not gonna look) but surely ronan is a dance nerd

or srs dance musics discussion crew

ronan is serious dance musics discussion crew

those remixes of gucci were awful

"why yes, i am a climber-- we should go back to my place and climb into my hot tub while i tell you about it."

― ♪☺♫☻ (gr8080), Wednesday, December 10, 2008 10:10 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i'm into these dudes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjBc7o8qPgA

http://thump.vice.com/words/how-diplo-and-the-hollerboard-changed-everything

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2082673896/bloghouse-the-book/description

Man, kind of a trip to read back through this thread

can one donate to an anti-kickstarter to prevent this book from being written

DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25660369_10155952627702008_5003479507287019891_n.jpg

haha oops

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25660369_10155952627702008_5003479507287019891_n.jpg?oh=2d18209751fd927e3b8282e518874027&oe=5B1F79B7

ok not *entirely* the same thing but incredible to me that people are still riding for 2008

ahahahaha

TLG : is that a current night out, or an old flyer ?

looks like the kickstarter already met its goal

wow just realized this is the tenth anniversary of frankendance

oh god it's (half) by meaghan garvey
she's probably not responsible for the absolute worst of what pitchfork's written, but she is the worst in critically questionable self-awareness lacking white-gazey stuff from there that i can attach to a name off the top of my head

xxxp current night out

you can tell its current bc the web address is fb and not mypace

lol

aaron aamnesiaa must have forgotten the last 10 years happened

you can tell its current bc the web address is fb and not mypace
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, 8 February 2018 20:27 (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
lol

i had this exact same thought after i posted actually.
and you know what, if i lived in a town with a scene and was in the mood for going out i would totally go to a night that played that stuff.
i loved it them (as a bystander due to life), and still do.
this mixed in with some electroclash would totally hit my sweet spot.

hood pass revoked

cant believe this formulation is a decade old:

My theory is that 2008 breaks down like this:

1) Too much of what is good and popular is not populist (nu-deep-minimal; space disco/balearic for the most part; upmarket dubstep)
2) Too much of what is good and populist is not popular (UK funky house)
3) Too much of what is popular and populist is not good (blog-house/frankendance; downmarket dubstep)

― Tim F, Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:17 PM (nine years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

extremely curious how Tim thinks the following ten years played out, if it veered away from this concern or back to it or what have you

TLG : yeah yeah, give an old(er) man a nu-electro-distorted-compressed-to-fuck break.

Here's another little time capsule from upthread:

If anything this stuff is probably the North American version of grime. It has a lot of the same weaknesses and will probably have about the same longevity as a genre. I can't really get upset about this stuff because it is going to go away as quickly as it came.

https://soundcloud.com/firemarshalmeaghan/bloghouse-mix-2018

lol this is cheating

extremely curious how Tim thinks the following ten years played out, if it veered away from this concern or back to it or what have you

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, 8 February 2018 20:54 (one week ago) Permalink

I don't think the formulation really applies anymore because the whole notion of scene allegiance within dance music has broken down further since 2008. At least as far as I can tell (and note I am now 35 so perhaps am not the best person to ask) less people than ever are really invested in organising themselves into distinct audiences around particular sub-genres. This was already going on of course and really you could say that dance music has simply followed rock music's lead - rock music was already in this state a decade ago.

There will always be exceptions of hardcore faithfuls, of course. But the difference I discern now is that a lot of the long tails from what was about ten years ago have basically converged into a kind of broad, stable disco-house-techno continuum where most people are into bits of everything along that spectrum and all that is really left to judge is the thoughtfulness or charisma with which particular stylistic narratives are executed.

The other big intervening development obviously was EDM, but I think people miss some of the nuances of EDM's impact: it was and is so obviously crass that I feel like it has had the perverse effect of pushing a lot of people who might otherwise be (and historically were) into relatively-crass material like blog-house or etc. towards more tasteful material.

In respect of this frankendance specifically I just don't hear much that really sounds like it now, which is probably a function of the above: I feel like much of the audience for it has basically split three ways between EDM, hip hop and techno, i.e. they've chosen to go with whichever frankenstein bodypart they liked most rather than stick with the whole corpse.

they've chosen to go with whichever frankenstein bodypart they liked most rather than stick with the whole corpse

😂😂😂

meghan garvey mix is like 70% not remotely bloghouse

EDM ... had the perverse effect of pushing a lot of people who might otherwise be (and historically were) into relatively-crass material like blog-house or etc. towards more tasteful material

great point

all str8 hipster afterhours parties i've been to in the last 2 yrs are either disco -> house -> techno or disco <-> house. last time i heard any electro or r&b or rap at one was like, 2014? there's still a lot of juke/club influenced stuff in queer dance parties imo, but doesn't feel like there's a straight line from bloghouse to that

Yeah don't discount the regional/global/deconstructed/post-deconstructed club thing.

To me that's always seemed separate from the bloghouse thing, even if there was some mingling at the time this thread was started?

meghan garvey mix is like 70% not remotely bloghouse

― flopson, Monday, February 19, 2018 10:33 PM (twenty-eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol im saying ... maybe even higher