Bill Cosby has defeated Hip Hop

http://www.kmialumni.org/_pictures/taps_bugler.jpg

RIP, heaven needed "Put It In Her Mouth" by Akinyele

not again!

http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/photo/2002-07/3946290.jpg

"I'm...

...

EXPRESSING...

...

...myself...

... :-D

..."

http://www.blacktown.net/cosby_eyes_buldged_blingbling.gif

I'm failing to see how him having marital infidelities immediately invalidates all of his points.

Not saying I agreed with what he had to say, but it's definitely not a good argument. If he was specifically attacking those who commit infidelities only, then that would be a different matter.

http://blacktown.net/olympics_before_feminism.gif

RIP, heaven needed "Put It In Her Mouth" by Akinyele

-- Dom Passantino, Friday, October 26, 2007 4:13 PM (1 month ago) Bookmark Link

That's actually Baby and Lil Wayne accepting the olympic medals.

pretty sure birdman doesnt own a FAG chain

someone bought it for him last christmas, after reading your review

Justice has finally been served. Bill for president!

I was at the first bill photo

pretty sure birdman doesnt own a FAG chain

it's a shop of his 5*G chain

as long as the discotheque club is open, dance music hip-hop will never die!

Read this as "Bing Crosby has defeated Hip Hop"

Disco died and rap will die too.

disco died?

Only melodic AOR will live on.

geir do you honestly believe theres going to be this utopian future where people don't dance anymore?

disco died?

-- and what, Wednesday, December 26, 2007 5:40 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Only melodic AOR will live on.

-- Hurting 2, Wednesday, December 26, 2007 5:41 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Thanks heavens for The Scissor Sisters for uniting our warring factions.

geir do you honestly believe theres going to be this utopian future where people don't dance anymore?

Sadly, no.

But if people absolutely have to dance they should do like they did during the new romantics/synthpop boom in the early 80s and do it to music that has more musical and artistic substance besides just danceability. Music made by people who write their own songs and take themselves seriously as artists, aiming for artistic merit, sometimes even with concept albums, but also throwing in a 4/4 beat for the sake of danceability or commercialism.

And I don't like Scissor Sisters btw. Not too much into AOR either. It has to be symphonic rock.

you are a horrible person

why does it bother you that people dance?

Music made by people who write their own songs and take themselves seriously as artists, aiming for artistic merit, sometimes even with concept albums, but also throwing in a 4/4 beat for the sake of danceability or commercialism.

Because, you know, danceable music is just a bone thrown to the common people that happens to sell well. Artistry is only found outside that sphere.

PLANET GEIR

Proper music may also be danceable, like "Dare" by Human League or "Cupid & Psyche" by Scritti Politti. But it needs more than just a dance beat to be good artistic music.

why?

Because art isn't about making people dance. There was dance music around in the 18th century too, but it isn't what people remember today. Because it was inferior to the more musically complex stuff people like Mozart, Bach, Beethoven and Haydn came up with.

tschaikovsky, that unsophisticated, unartistic dumbass

Along with Strauss, he is often looked down upon by music history writers. Maybe exactly because they composed dance music.

if you measure art by how long something lasts or how many people remember it, what happens when genres you despise like rap and dance start to be canonized?

(Speaking of Johan Strauss here btw, not Richard)

Rap will only be canonized on a short term.

In 100 years, "Yesterday" is still around while nobody remembers any rap at all.

xps: no, that's wrong.

let's set aside the ballets, which i'm sure you'll argue are meant to be looked at and not participated in, but all four of those guys wrote minuets, pavanes, all kinds of social dances.

what about stravinsky?

does geir hate jazz & big band too?

geir i genuinely regret you won't be around in 100 years

I suggest you ask a man on the street to hum a Stravinsky piece.

based on geirstradamus here I'm glad I won't be alive 100 years from now

xpost lol

Geir I suggest YOU ask anybody to hum ANY classical besides the nutcracker suite

Like The Four Seasons or Eine Kleine Nachtmusik or "Für Elise" or Beethoven's fifth, you mean?

yes, actually, that is what I mean

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/91/Flapperstamp-celebrate_the_century.jpg

At least here in Europe, most people are very familiar with those.

for our non-american friends, that is a u.s. postal service stamp commemorating the charleston, which is a dance that people did almost one hundred years ago

And as for big band music, those Tin Pan Alley songs are remembered as songs, not as big band arrangements. Some great songs though.

geir what about places like india and west africa with centuries of almost entirely rhythmic musical tradition? hundreds of millions of people remember dances and music intended for dancing from generations before their time and regularly partake in them today

thats not serious artistic music dude

let's set aside the ballets, which i'm sure you'll argue are meant to be looked at and not participated in, but all four of those guys wrote minuets, pavanes, all kinds of social dances.

???????

??????? = what do you think of that geir

geir what about places like india and west africa with centuries of almost entirely rhythmic musical tradition?

India has a very melodic tradition. Different from ours, but still melodic and actually very melodically complex.

West Africans used to know dancing but not music. They were introduced to music by the imperialists. The sounds they were making while dancing was just a part of the dance, and had nothing to do with music really.

holy shit

??????? = what do you think of that geir

There was usually one movement that was a menuet or something, because people needed to dance during those social gathering. That movement is rarely the one that is held in regard as the highlight of the symphony today though.

no the real question is this:

forget about people dancing in west africa or bali or wherever.

there are people in downtown Oslo that like the Beatles ok, or not, but who go out dancing to rap or disco or (most probably) trance. what actual harm does this do to you? to anyone? what is the problem?

xp oh my god

xp2 those weren't symphonies at all dude

http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/81b/ced/81bced4f-edc6-4fb2-8706-65cf206b73af.large-profile.jpg

there are people in downtown Oslo that like the Beatles ok, or not, but who go out dancing to rap or disco or (most probably) trance. what actual harm does this do to you?

Nothing. Had it stayed in the clubs without me having to hear it on the radio. In the early 80s, clubs used to be a nice place to hear good music though (you know, synthpop, new romantics, great English stuff with actual artistic merit), so it is a bad thing that way.

OXFORD ENGLISH GEIRTIONARY

music (n): something that white people do

does your love of this stuff require a belief that it will eventually triumph over rap and dance and disco and african drumming? what if you're wrong and in a generation melodic symphonic rock is a totally dead art-form? does it matter to you?

Music was invented by white (or "brown") people, but is done today by all kinds of people. When I say it is done I mean the stuff that has empasis on melody though.

holy shit

ditto. i've been reading ilm for 5 years and am familiar with the legend of geir, but this is really something else.

meanwhile, bill cosby booker t. washingtons the shit out of it and people take his 'just look around you' 'cultural' 'critique' seriously.

geir would you go do far as to actually say the african rhythmic tradition has made music worse?

does your love of this stuff require a belief that it will eventually triumph over rap and dance and disco and african drumming? what if you're wrong and in a generation melodic symphonic rock is a totally dead art-form? does it matter to you?

-- and what, Wednesday, December 26, 2007 4:27 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

the coldplay theory of eschatology

does your love of this stuff require a belief that it will eventually triumph over rap and dance and disco and african drumming?

On a longer term, I am convinced that Genesis and Yes will be seen as bigger names than Public Enemy, Sex Pistols or Velvet Underground.

In a way, the post-punk/post-funk era may be seen as sort of a recent answer to the roccocco age. In the roccocco age, people suddently were very much against all the bombast and pomp and complexity of Baroque music and they started composing really simple and boring three chord stuff, none of which has survived today. Handel and Bach were more or less forgotten by then, but later masters rediscovered them. If you told somebody in the late 1700s that Bach was a bigger composer than his songs, they'd laugh at you. On a longer term, it was right though. Bach is bigger.

The backclash against symphonic rock is a bit of the same, really. The punk revolution suddenly gave people the idea that music should be simple, and that musical and compositional skills are a bad thing rather than a good one. That notion will never last though, and punk and rap/R&B (today's answer to roccocco music) will be forgotten while people will still admire the work of Genesis and Yes.

geir would you go do far as to actually say the african rhythmic tradition has made music worse?

Not before rap happened.

Nothing. Had it stayed in the clubs without me having to hear it on the radio. In the early 80s, clubs used to be a nice place to hear good music though (you know, synthpop, new romantics, great English stuff with actual artistic merit), so it is a bad thing that way.

wait a minute -- it's nothing bad, except it is something bad? honestly i'm trying to get you to explain what the harm is.

there's always been a huge amount of music out there i don't like, but i don't have big theories about a constant war between pure music and false non-music that fools people into having a good time. so, why do you believe this kind of thing?

let's set aside the ballets, which i'm sure you'll argue are meant to be looked at and not participated in, but all four of those guys wrote minuets, pavanes, all kinds of social dances.

Geir's habit with this as with all the stuff that contradicts his thesis is to just ignore it - half the people he idolizes know that dance is the primary function of music, and that the whole notion of sitting down and listening to music without responding in some public, physical way is a rather aberrant, recent, modern notion - one which, in time, will probably pass. Dance precedes formal notation, precedes recorded music, and is the actual function of music. Listening to music & having thoughts about it - as much as I enjoy doing so - is the unusual way of responding to it, and the one which history will probably eventually describe as a phase, albeit a long one.

answer the second part of my question, geir

what if genesis and yes DONT win in the end - does it matter to you? do you like them because of their music or because theyre going to be remembered 100 years from now? do they lose value if they never do have your imagined future reappraisal?

honestly i'm trying to get you to explain what the harm is.

The harm is, simply, that were were a lot of great, newly composed highly melodic TUNES on the charts back then. Tunes that you could sing along too, that stuck in your head and you learned to love them and may still hum them today. Today, there are fewer, although people like Pink, Avril Lavigne and Sugababes (not to mention Coldplay and Travis, but they are album acts, and not very popular among the kids) have made sure things are better now than a few years ago. (That's why ILM's hip-hop/R&B/dance fans hate all those so much)

Dance precedes formal notation, precedes recorded music, and is the actual function of music.

Amusing as this thread has been, I have a problem with this idea. What may have been the function previously does not have to be the function now. If an artist makes a piece of music to stimulate the mind rather than the body, I listen to it, my mind is stimulated, and I respond as the artist intended, its actual function isn't dance at all. You can't make such generalistic statements. I mean, I LOVE to dance sometimes, and some music serves this purpose, but even self-nominated 'dance music' sometimes sounds even better on headphones, seated or prostrate. Music is enjoyment, is artistic expression; dance is a subset of this.

what if genesis and yes DONT win in the end - does it matter to you? do you like them because of their music or because theyre going to be remembered 100 years from now?

I like them because they are musically sophisticated and musically complex. And that is always what wins in the long run.

geir, if the shit you listen to is the natural, pure state of true artistic music, how come you're all alone at the far extremist side of rhythm-hating? where are all these future redeemers of prog and classical going to come from if they arent doing it right now?

Listening to music & having thoughts about it - as much as I enjoy doing so - is the unusual way of responding to it,

I have yet to see Geir "have thoughts" about music, as opposed to taking dictation, something a 10 year old can do. His extensive schooling has failed to confront him with the notion that music - words in particular, of course, but even music itself - can express ideas, or serve a purpose in culture other than simple classical order or lite entertainment. He is, simply, a fascist.

There's nothing wrong with rhythm as part of the music, as long as it doesn't take over completely. All music has rhythm. All "pop" music (other than a few ballads) even has a "beat" of some sort.

you don't say

http://members.cox.net/rubstarr/oh_snap.gif

melody is rhythm, Geir

rhythm is actually the whole deal

I like them because they are musically sophisticated and musically complex. And that is always what wins in the long run.

-- Geir Hongro, Wednesday, December 26, 2007 4:37 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

are african polyrhythms not musically complex?

and it's not like he can claim he's after beauty. i mean, he listens to Yes and shit.

There's nothing wrong with rhythm as part of the music, as long as it doesn't take over completely. All music has rhythm. All "pop" music (other than a few ballads) even has a "beat" of some sort.

There's nothing wrong with rhythm as part of the music, as long as it doesn't take over completely. All music has rhythm.

http://img.slate.com/media/40/030127_NKorean_GS.jpg

Music is an art form consisting of sound and silence. Elements of sound in music are pitch (which governs melody and harmony), rhythm (and its associated concepts tempo, meter, and articulation), dynamics, structure, and the sonic qualities of timbre and texture.

(That's why ILM's hip-hop/R&B/dance fans hate all those so much)

no, see, that's not true either. the 'beat music' people on ilm, if i can speak for them, dislike Coldplay and Travis on the merits of their own music -- as melodists and arrangers and producers of recorded works, they are just plain boring. they fail at their own task. i don't know any of the house or rap heads who don't like a good melody.

it's you who has, as i said above, big theories about a constant war between pure music and false non-music that fools people into having a good time.

why do you believe this? this conflict is actually not happening! there has always been just as much dance-type music as contemplative sit-at-home type music popular and available, even in the 60s and 80s, as there is now.

so it must be something personal. people doing something other than sitting listening to the beatles on their headphones is A BAD THING. and you've never explained why. it must cause you some kind of pain, because it doesn't actually do anything bad to anyone else.

I like them because they are musically sophisticated and musically complex. And that is always what wins in the long run.

I like complexity too a lot of the time, but complexity shouldn't be limited to tunes and melody! The whole package, tune, rhythm, lyricism, texture, should ideally work as both a liminal sound-tapestry (that may inspire either dancing or contemplation or whatever) and an explicit work of art. I mean, certain pieces of music may place the emphasis on one side or the other, but there's no denying that music is made awesome by lots of different things.

And yeah, melody is made by rhythm and notation.

dammit in the time it's taken me to write this you've all stepped in and said more or less the same things!

rhythm is a dancer.

if you love musical complexity so much why dont you listen to like far-out jazz shit instead of relatively simple blues-based rock?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

One thing I'll say in Geir's defence is that I do like a lot of music that he does. But that's all I can say. Next time I spin a Yes record, I'm gonna get up and dance to it. :D

i mean seriously man i dig yes too but theyre hardly 'sophisticated' - shouldnt you bugging on nigerian shit?

are african polyrhythms not musically complex?

Not if there isn't a complex melody and complex harmony besides (like in the music of Genesis - they did a lot of rhythmically complex stuff too). Nothing that anyone can do is complex. Complex music may only be made by an elite of people with considerably bigger musical talent than most people.

(And such people will of course exist amongst Africans too, they need to be introduced to the actual craft at first though)

basically you invented a crazy argument to defend your own subjective tastes where all the terms get redefined by you to mean whatever you want them to mean

xpost Nothing that anyone can do is complex. Complex music may only be made by an elite of people with considerably bigger musical talent than most people. damn, sieg heil son

holy shit

i guess its just an accident that white europeans are the only 'elite' who know how to make real music?

still confused by the "geir isnt racist" position that so many people on ilx seem to hold

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c3/Mountain_King_theme.PNG/800px-Mountain_King_theme.PNG

is it just nostalgia for the days of usenet?

i guess its just an accident that white europeans are the only 'elite' who know how to make real music?

They aren't. Even in Africa there are classically schooled people with those abilities.

I think it might be, plus lately nobody's been bored enough to bite so hard as we are this evening

Nothing that anyone can do is complex

Ahahaha, so anyone can throw down on some, like, Yoruban drumming ideas? That shit is by no means simple.

This is ILM's way to deal with holiday boredom, huh?

xpost

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d4/TheBellCurve.gif/210px-TheBellCurve.gifhttp://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:su56D9ybgjKXSM:www.getmaxvertical.com/plus_sign.jpghttp://www.826nyc.org/about/publications/files/hornby_spree_cover-thumb.jpg

Hey let's start hotlinking badass Giovanni Hidalgo youtube clips!

Yes is the tip of the iceberg. It's (sometimes) my easy-listening. And Relayer at least IS mega-wacked-out!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KbyIv9n_-d0

'classically schooled people'

hey nick, check out this brazilian dude playing pandeiro, it's totally sick: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMTL7OSvOoo

Even in Africa there are classically schooled people with those abilities.

Geir sounds like an E.M. Forster character.

All folk music (also European folk music) is inferior.

I mean, traditional Norwegian folk music is some of the worst and most unlistenable crap in the entire world. So this is really about folk music vs. more complex and sophisicated music. Rap is a folk-music derived music, which is thus inferior to symphonic rock, because symphonic rock is derived from more complex and sophisticated and theory-oriented stuff.

Atwater: As to the whole Southern strategy that Harry Dent and others put together in 1968, opposition to the Voting Rights Act would have been a central part of keeping the South. Now the new Southern Strategy of Ronald Reagan doesn’t have to do that. All you have to do to keep the South is for Reagan to run in place on the issues he’s campaigned on since 1964… and that’s fiscal conservatism, balancing the budget, cut taxes, you know, the whole cluster…

Questioner: But the fact is, isn’t it, that Reagan does get to the Wallace voter and to the racist side of the Wallace voter by doing away with legal services, by cutting down on food stamps…?

Atwater: You start out in 1954 by saying, 'Nigger, nigger, nigger.' By 1968 you can't say 'nigger' - that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like musically sophisticated, actual craft, and all that stuff. You follow me - because obviously sitting around saying, 'only elites can create actual music' is much more abstract than even the melody thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than 'Nigger, nigger.'

TOMBOT, please harvest Geir quotes for new edition of TOMBOT funnies.

because symphonic rock is derived from more complex and sophisticated and theory-oriented stuff.

it's not really, though. It has pretentions toward being "symphonic," but most of the usual suspects in the prog camp who wanna cop some of classical music's "class" (Yes/Genesis/Gentle Giant/all that kinda stuff) aren't really doing anything "symphonic" at all - returning to the melodic phrase that kicked off yr 17-minute noodly jam doesn't mean you've actually worked out "variations on a theme" y'know

"my song is very long. it is therefore like Wagner, whose songs were also long."

honestly i don't think he is a racist in the way that... racists are racist.

i think he's a dude with a lot of problems (aspie maybe?) and a lot of rage for order, who hit on THE BEATLES at a young age and has built a whole Weltanschauung around them. the farther a thing gets from the Beatles (swing, rap, moving one's corpus to an external rhythm, leaving the house, the continent of africa) the more dangerous it becomes. it's not about race and not even really about music. just a dude with a crazy organizing schema in a confusing and hostile world.

lol post-holiday office boredom.

honestly i don't think he is a racist in the way that... racists are racist.

ethan did you not used to make this same case regarding Geir?

music has moved into a higher plane of craft innit

I mean, I understand where Geir is coming from, in that through assimilation of all musical forms it ought in theory be possible to create greater music, but this 'music' is arbitrary. You've gotta have an intention when creating, and so you can't just set out to create 'incredibly complex' music; you'd never get anything done, or it would sound like a mess. This is where form comes in. The polyrhythmic African drumming, melodic rock, hip-hop, these are all different forms that use an intelligible base from which to seek an artistic (or physical) ideal. What breaks my heart is that Geir has limited himself to just one base. My ideal music would take the best bits from all bases, and attempt to combine them into an ultra-complex but still-intelligible and coherent whole, with as much drama, joy, thrill and intellectual clout as is possible to obtain. My mode would be the 70-minute album, because that's the mode I've grown up with and the one that subjectively satisfies me the most. Other great artists have pioneered bases, have transcended their expected forms. I find it sad that Geir doesn't want to see this kind of innovation.

here's a boring thread

*It might also be the 40-minute album or the 25-minute EP, just sayin'.

YEAH let's all stop now.

oh and here are some local dudes doing some rhythmically sick afro-cuban stuff http://youtube.com/watch?v=W004uifpmXI (on a jeff beck tune: http://youtube.com/watch?v=9JkG-X8ah24)

guys can we back off calling homie racist for a minute and like continue to pick at the brain, cause this is fasincating in a hall-of-mirrors way

My ideal music would take the best bits from all bases, and attempt to combine them into an ultra-complex but still-intelligible and coherent whole, with as much drama, joy, thrill and intellectual clout as is possible to obtain

this is the lj thesis statement that really bothers me for some reason. i think because it usually results in lame, tokenistic genre-jumping that doesn't really have enough respect for the basics.

yeah, I don't think this is racist as such. Racially-ignorant possibly, but I think Geir's got a genuine zeal for a certain kind of music, and he doesn't see many Africans attempting it, hence he, on average, values African music below that practiced by a load of Europeans.

Jordan, I know precisely the kind of lame genre-jumping that you mean. I hear it and it pisses me off. Thing is, what I'm suggesting is music that in its very texture and fabric doesn't adhere to any well-worn genre, but instead uses any sound or technique that best suits it. The song wouldn't go from genre to genre. The song would combine sounds in new and intriguing ways, placing (to put it very crudely) aspects of genres on top of each other rather than next to each other. The song's form can be as basic as suits it.

Like The Four Seasons or Eine Kleine Nachtmusik or "Für Elise" or Beethoven's fifth, you mean?

-- Geir Hongro, Wednesday, December 26, 2007 9:14 PM (58 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

i suggest you ask them to hum any of these for longer than a ringtone phrase. speaking of which, rap beats are great for easily memorable, hummable snippets!

god i am so bored.

The song would combine sounds in new and intriguing ways, placing (to put it very crudely) aspects of genres on top of each other rather than next to each other

you mean like punk-funk?

rap-rock?

btw jordan yr youtubery is great

Not necessarily. I wouldn't want the word 'genre' to be associated with any music I made. When I say 'aspects of genres' I really mean 'harmonies' or 'rhythms' or 'keyboard effects' that would perhaps fit in certain ascribed genres but isolated here only make sense in the context of their own position in the music. Punk-funk sounds like something created solely for the purpose of combining punk and funk, because it sounded like a way rad idea to some unimaginative retard. I wouldn't combine for the sake of it. I'd combine if I thought that extra sound would sound good in that position. I wouldn't set out to make any sort of genre combination.

COSBY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GEIR

I suppose if you wanted something to express its 'punky' message (rebellion against authority, snappy short songs with a bit of bite) with a funky mode (to get people grooving in their subversion), you could legitimately carry it off. But it's not a combination I'd try to make. Not one I'd advise others make either.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2380/2139575748_ec6734295f_o.png

All folk music (also European folk music) is inferior.

ok, now you made me mad, nuh

louis i need to warn you that youre about 10 steps away from geir right now

guys can we back off calling homie racist for a minute and like continue to pick at the brain, cause this is fasincating in a hall-of-mirrors way

-- BIG HOOS aka the steendriver

not really! isn't the world just full of aspies who have problems w/ basic semantic fluency and post-formal operational reasoning? this is like watching MIT dudes debate w/ the "time cube" guy - i mean, what's the point, except to prove to each other that we're not as mentally ill as he is?

is that what you would call http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_differences dr. vahid?

max ftw

FWIW what happens is you make music that you think is unique and ungenrebound in the making of it, then you make a record and are all woohoo I made a record I am not bound by genre I am some kind of modern Da Vinci of shitty pop and then you read a review of it and lo and behold they have called you "punk-funk" or "math-rap" or "queef-pop" etc.

ps pandeira clip is incredible

^^otm

there was a good mark s thread where he was like GEIR IS CORRECT and then he asked geir to tell him which of two paul mccartney songs had the objectively superior melodic line. geir never took the bait tho.

i think lj's first record will be math-queef-pop

At last the Geir Hongro Challenge!!

geir you can answer me whenever you see this thread again - does your hard-on for complexity and sophistication apply to visual art as well? do you think that
http://www.guestlife.com/media/GuestLife/Monterey-Bay/Annual-2006/Thomas-Kinkade/kinkade-2-06.jpghttp://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Vq0ENj3nL_BBjM:http://www.decodeunicode.org/data/glyph/196x196/003E.gifhttp://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/a/ab/180px-Theo_van_Doesburg_Counter-CompositionV_(1924).jpg

painting on the left is influenced by george winston
painting on the right is influenced by jazz, ie it suxx

what's the point, except to prove to each other that we're not as mentally ill as he is?

you must be less mentally ill than the rest of us

i think the painting on the right has more to do with george winston than the one on the left, what do i win?

anecdote: kandinsky said his paintings were inspired by jazz ("broadway boogie woogie", duh). someone asked kandinsky whether he was impressed by the modernism of the music, the soul, the expressiveness, the improvisation ... what was it that he loved about jazz. he replied that he hated jazz and thought it was terrible music, but he was impressed by the fact that the jitterbuggers moved in alternating straight back-and-forward and straight left-and-right dance steps.

i see now that is not a kandinsky. oh well.

gabbneb i see you wussed out of the geir hongro challenge two years ago

http://www.schoolsliaison.org.uk/Art_Gallery/work/work1.jpghttp://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Vq0ENj3nL_BBjM:http://www.decodeunicode.org/data/glyph/196x196/003E.gifhttp://www.guestlife.com/media/GuestLife/Monterey-Bay/Annual-2006/Thomas-Kinkade/kinkade-2-06.jpg

i know what you mean though, some windham hill stuff - esp early alex degrassi, like "slow circle" - is like cubist acoustic guitar jazz. see also: egberto gismonti.

isn't the real challenge to figure out what "melodic" is a stand-in for? = problems w/ basic semantic fluency and post-formal operational reasoning

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Vq0ENj3nL_BBjM:http://www.decodeunicode.org/data/glyph/196x196/003E.gifhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/cc/

you said it prettier

Personally I think the flaw in Geir's thinking is that he shouldn't be listening to pop at all. If "God Only Knows" is better than "Wouldn't It Be Nice" because it has "more melodic and harmonic complexity" -- i.e., there are more different notes, basically -- he should be listening to classical music, which is all about melodic and harmonic complexity in precisely the way he always wants pop to be all about those things. Not to start analyzing Geir too much (sorry Geir), but I think the fact that he listens to pop at all instead of classical indicates that he does need a lot of stuff beyond that complexity -- that he cares about where rhythm went post-1920, that he cares about the way the current pop-song format can speak socially, that he gets into all of the things rock'n'roll brought into popular music.

He just hits a wall when those things get carried farther down the line into, say, hip-hop. Which is why I think it's completely dishonest to say it's a matter of melody and harmony for him -- that's like saying "I like colors that are toward the left end of the spectrum, therefore green is best." I'd be a lot more comfortable if he admitted that he wants a certain balance of all these things, and finds that balance in e.g. Nik Kershaw, and doesn't at all like to stray from the very specific balance he calls home.

-- nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, April 5, 2003 6:57 PM (4 years ago) Bookmark Link

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2363/2138839519_7ba301f789_o.png

Polyrhythmics may be interesting though, but then mainly if used in an intellectual way, which was often the case with progressive rock. If rhythm is supposed to be complex and musically skilled, then it has to be so complicated it isn't possible to dance to it anymore.

-- Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, April 7, 2003 1:26 PM (4 years ago) Bookmark Link

:)

haha

consider myself corrected

Apollo vs Dionysus: The Only Theme Your Students Will Ever Need in Writing about Literature

by Michael Thro

from VCCA Journal, Volume 10, Number 2, Summer 1996, 11-18

wow

Geir has mentioned before that he appreciates the compositional complexity of jazz but dislikes the improvisation. I wonder if he's tried treating the solos as sections of a composition, like so many people have to do to comprehend the stuff?

Bird, for example, formally composed a lot of the solos you hear on record. Dude knew he only had a couple takes to get it right, and only a few choruses per solo.

I might suggest that if you really want to get into jazz, Geir, try some of that Dial or Savoy stuff that Charlie Parker & Dizzy recorded. Very tightly arranged, complex stuff. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Geir has mentioned before that he appreciates the compositional complexity of jazz but dislikes the improvisation.

right, he likes what signifies as order for him, like moonship said

he only likes "complexity" because it correlates in his mind with european classical music and therefore signifies as old and powerful and congratulatory-by-association to the backwater he grew up in

whose "folk" music he's ashamed of, of course

Pedant alert, Broadway Boogie Woogie was Piet Mondrian.

Please to carry on the Geir baiting.

haha you're right. i completely confuzzled kandinsky and mondrian. forgive me, i have a fever and i took 3 contac.

Disco died and rap will die too.

lol you're like the chauffeur in Spinal Tap who says rock 'n roll is a "fad".

rap has existed a hell of a lot longer than disco has.

rap has existed a hell of a lot longer than disco has.

what's your year 1 for rap? just curious, I know a lot of people cite the Last Poets album

well I dunno to be honest--I mean the roots of rap go way back I know but I wouldn't profess to be an expert. I mostly wrote what I did because disco's longevity was not comparable, in my eyes, to rap's.

disco is dead!!! LOL

I mostly wrote what I did because disco's longevity was not comparable, in my eyes, to rap's.

Disco's very much alive, isn't it? E.g., Lindstrom, Arcade Lovers, Glass Candy, The Chromatics, and Prins Thomas, among others.

well, if it's Geir's viewpoint that it's dead in the mainstream, or that it's current state is 'dead', rap is still surpassing it.

ie, I think it was silly to intimate that rap, which if anything seems to be increasing in popularity and still going strong after several decades, is a 'fad'.

Those are disco influenced dance acts. Disco died around 1981-82.

And, yes, Bo. No genre dies competely. All genres will continue to exist in some kind of underground guise. But once it's gone from the charts, those who dislike it will not need to care.

Disco died around 1981-82.

Ah. Video killed the radio star.

Why do you need to care about what's on the charts now if the music you happen to like is still being made? xp

do you really think rap is going to die in our lifetime? seriously...if and when it dies a death in the mainstream, it will likely be well after we're dead.

Tombot, that's a great effort, and I'm truly touched, but nothing here matches the brilliance of "Cows are such magnificent, delicious animals". That's one of my top ten webcomic panels ever.

And, yes, Bo.

and what?

Why do you need to care about what's on the charts now if the music you happen to like is still being made?

Between the late 80s and Britpop, the kind of music I like was hardly being made at all.

Point taken, but it is now, isn't it?

Perhaps it's not topping the charts, maybe it's not the New Thing with the Kids, but it's there.

And I don't know what my point was anymore.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00009V7OL.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

hah i was about to say hoos

Point taken, but it is now, isn't it?

Things got better after Britpop, but that is why some people have so much against Coldplay and Travis. Because they have brought back the good, old tune again and brought pop music back to the 70s or 80s where it should have stayed forever.

Yeah Geir that is one of your most delusional bits. I like loads and loats of melodic art-school English rock. Coldplay and Travis, however, are unspeakably boring. People hate them because they suck.

A lot of people my age love then because they are great. They write great songs. Dance and R&B fans hate them because they are "plodding" while rockers hate them because they don't "rock". But good music isn't supposed to rock or be danced to anyway.

Is it really so difficult to alter that final sentence to read:

"But I don't like music that's supposed to rock or be danced to anyway?"

gah i say no more

yeah again you're just sorta bein' delusional there GH. A lot of people your age who don't give a shit about dance or R&B still can't get pumped for the dull, lifeless music of Coldplay and Travis. Having a melody isn't the same thing as having written a good one; adhering to verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-solo-repeat-chorus is only satisfying if the verses are good, the choruses worthwhile, and the solos decent. Coldplay and Travis are like the stuff they feed emergency room patients who can't open their mouths: nutritionally complete, but not the sort of thing you wanna actually have to eat.

Coldplay's melodies are good, based on the criteria that they have great bridges, a good build to a proper climax in the chorus, a catchy chorus that you may sing along to. Exactly the same timless criteria you would use on a melody back in the 60s. You don't need any other criteria. Based on the criteria for their genre, Coldplay write great songs. Of course, if you turn originality into a criteria they may not be that great, but originality isn't a criteria here. Coldplay's genre isn't supposed to be original. It is supposed to sound like nothing has changed since 1985. That is the entire point of their genre and it has to be viewed using that criteria.

But good music isn't supposed to rock or be danced to anyway.

You're kidding, right? I mean, there's obv. some good music that isn't meant to be "rocked or danced to," but you think that "good music" and rocking/dancing are mutually exclusive?

great bridges, a good build to a proper climax in the chorus, a catchy chorus that you may sing along to.

That's one of the more bloodless, sterile descriptions of what constitutes "good music" I've heard in a while.

wait, really? the melodies don't have to be any good: they just have to be <i>there</i>? because the songs of the sixties you allude to - Brill Building stuff being sort of the standard for the build-to-the-chorus: Carole King, say - had good melodies. That's not the same as "innovative" - just interesting. Coldplay's melodies on the other hand are just empty exercises along the scale - they fulfill their role like a bad employee who'll never be promoted but can't be fired.

if it really is paint-by-numbers for you then I can't see why you'd even bother with Coldplay or Travis; you're perfectly capable of satisfying the formal demands you require on your own. Eliminate the middleman.

Music isn't supposed to be meant for nothing else than listening to. There may be some music that you can dance to, but it isn't supposed to be meant for that.

And the entire idea of something to "rock" is a tired old one. Particularly when ever generation has to make even more noise to "rock" more than the previous one. About time to bury that idea once and for all and keep to musicianship, sophistication and a polished production without mistakes instead.

they fulfill their role like a bad employee who'll never be promoted but can't be fired.

A good craftsman rather than a bad employee. They know the art and craft of songwriting. And art and craft are the same thing, really.

Coldplay's genre isn't supposed to be original. It is supposed to sound like nothing has changed since 1985. That is the entire point of their genre and it has to be viewed using that criteria.

I suspect Coldplay might disagree.

Btw. I don't see Brill Building pop as particularly good. The harmonical reportoire was rather limited then. It was The Beatles who revolutionized songwriting and started writing really good songs.

And Chris Martin is a much better songwriter than Carole King. He obviously isn't up there with Paul McCartney or even Neil Finn though.

I bet the oldest of the old alt.music.alternative ppl are placing side bets on how long Geir can draw this thread out

x-post Carole King's stomach has growled better songs than Chris Martin will ever dream up

Other than Brian Wilson, no American songwriter beats Chris Martin.

Vanilla Ice's performance of "Survivor" on "Hit Me Baby One More Time" was a better instance of songcraft than anything in Chris Martin's whole career

^ guys can this be the sticker on the new coldplay album

Other than Brian Wilson, no American songwriter beats Chris Martin.

*GASP*

I bet the oldest of the old alt.music.alternative ppl are placing side bets on how long Geir can draw this thread out

Quite. (I'll bet on five years.)

I bet the oldest of the old alt.music.alternative ppl are placing side bets on how long Geir can draw this thread out

To be fair, you'd have to combine this and the Do Singers Have Less Credibility . . . thread, since they're running on parallel tracks with GH now.

so is this guy some kinda tard or what

http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs322&d=07524&f=bad.png

http://xs322.xs.to/xs322/07524/bad.png

West Africans used to know dancing but not music. They were introduced to music by the imperialists. The sounds they were making while dancing was just a part of the dance, and had nothing to do with music really.

-- Geir Hongro

UNGA BUNGA

Other than Brian Wilson, no American songwriter beats Chris Martin.

This is astonishing!

Agreed.

Coldplay - Talk

Oh brother I can't, I can't get through
I've been trying hard to reach you, cause I don't know what to do
Oh brother I can't believe it's true
I'm so scared about the future and I wanna talk to you
Oh I wanna talk to you
You can take a picture of something you see
In the future where will I be?
You can climb a ladder up to the sun
Or write a song nobody has sung
Or do something that's never been done

Are you lost or incomplete?
Do you feel like a puzzle, you can't find your missing piece?
Tell me how do you feel?
Well I feel like they're talking in a language I don't speak
And they're talking it to me

So you take a picture of something you see
In the future where will I be?
You can climb a ladder up to the sun
Or a write a song nobody has sung
Or do something that's never been done
Do something that's never been done

So you don't know were you're going, and you wanna talk
And you feel like you're going where you've been before
You tell anyone who'll listen but you feel ignored
Nothing's really making any sense at all
Let's talk, let's ta-a-alk
Let's talk, let's ta-a-alk .

I feel like Geir came back to this thread drunk.

The finely-wrought self-parody slipped out of alignment a tad.

Well, I don't know that a lyric-comparison contest is really gonna do it here.

xp

I know, the lyrics to that song just rub me the wrong way, though. Ya feel me?

yeah but the melody really is something special, memorable enough to be an influence on kraftwerk even

it's kind of astonishing how someone who knows so much about music knows so little about music.

but any hoos, geir said all this stuff on ilm back in 2002 and every year subsequent. and everyoe responded exactly the same.

Dance and R&B fans hate them because they are "plodding"

including such famous dance and r&b fans as shawn carter, tim moseley, kanye west, and nelly furtado

Those are R&B acts, not R&B fans. Acts tend to be more positive towards proper music and great musicianship than fans.

And comparing lyrics is pointless. Obviously, Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen write way better lyrics than Christ Martin. But music isn't about lyrics.

Chris Martin, not Christ Martin (No, that wasn't meant as an attempt to raise him to godlike status. Even though Brian Wilson is the only better American songwriter, there are probably some 30-40 British songwriters who are better than Martin) :)

I was pleased that I was able to pick out that the sheet music posted upthread was "Peter and the Wolf."

jmc you aren't talking about what I posted are you? that's peer gynt

http://blog.thomasdolby.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/a3dee1a25af891c9.jpg

any hoos

boo

Oh shit, you're right, Tom. Man, I'm getting all sorts of things wrong today.

I was pleased that I was able to pick out that the sheet music posted upthread was "Peter and the Wolf."

we were also pleased

Man, I'm getting all sorts of things wrong today.

this thread being what it is, i wouldn't sweat it

http://www.blacktown.net/cosby_eyes_buldged_blingbling.gif

wtf

Disco died and rap will die too.

-- Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 26 December 2007 17:40

lol, you so crazy

Hmmm. Disco existed for about 5-8 years and then died (or rather, was assimilated into other types of music, to wonderous effect). Rap is coming up on 30 years old, and still going about as strong as ever. I don't know about your odds, dewd.

http://www.discogs.com/image/R-34434-1158669969.jpeg

He means "Disco D died"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-NZk7P1nUI&feature=related

honky negro

I was pleased that I was able to pick out that the sheet music posted upthread was "Peter and the Wolf."

-- jaymc, Thursday, December 27, 2007 12:57 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

I had this same feeling of pleasedness, except I couldn't identify what I was humming. : (

I've always found it very strange that Bill Cosby has this position in American society that allows him to dispense pronouncements about our culture and the role of black people within it.

He's the guy from the jello pudding ads. The guy who made Ghost Dad.

I don't get it.

Geir, West African music was not all rhythm and dancing before the imperialists arrived. Mali has a melody-based griot tradition dating back to the Middle Ages and perhaps farther back. They've been strumming those koras over there a long, long time.

I once played my favorite piece of kora music -- Dembo Konte and Kausu Kuyateh's "Madiba Jabi" -- for an associate professor of music at Vanderbilt University. This man was also the world's foremost mountain dulcimer player, a treasurer of melody. Not only did the piece move him to tears, but he also told me something that I have been meaning to research for years.

He said that African musicians were brought to Europe in the 18th century, and that Bach learned much about counterpoint from some of them.

Oh wow. Do research.

game. set. match.

No wonder, as a melodic song tradition has existed in Northern Africa (and probably also South Africa) for ages.

In North Africa they didn't use the same word for dancing and music though. They realized it was two different things that didn't have anything to do with each other.

>>jello pudding ads...[some movie]...I don't get it.

He had a tremendously successful family-oriented primetime series, The Cosby Show, which ran from 1984-1991.

While you probably weren't around then, he also had a great deal of national success as a comedian in the Sixties and Seventies. And whether anyone now likes it or not, his Fat Albert character was made omnipresent for a time in a successful cartoon show.

No jello pudding for you.

His comedy was fantastic. Dude was just a good storyteller.

I especially loved the Street Football material.

"You, cut behind the Black chevy. You, go to my house, and wait in the living room. You, take the J bus, and tell the driver to open its doors on 23rd street. I'll fake it to you."

They realized it was two different things that didn't have anything to do with each other.]

friendly reminder that you're wrong, even though you enjoy having this opinion.

xpost

I had that record, too! That stuff was indeed great.

xp

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/86/c7/3afa828fd7a0ec3125883110._AA280_.L.jpg

In North Africa they didn't use the same word for dancing and music though. They realized it was two different things that didn't have anything to do with each other.

^^i cant parse this sentence!!! i want to take it apart but i cant even figure out what it means!!

unlike in english, where we use the same word for "dancing" and "music"

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2299945/2/istockphoto_2299945_good_catch.jpg

that duck is totally gonna catch that baseball

DO U C

Sigh.

Yes, yes, Bill Cosby was a great standup. And he had a hit TV show (which I've always thought was wildly overrated).

But so what? Ghost Dad, people. Do we let Roseanne lecture us about our culture? Eddie Murphy was a great standup too, and at least some of his movies are tolerable.

This idea that Bill Cosby is some poet laureate is hard to reconcile with Leonard Part Six and the Jello Pudding ads.

Bill Cosby is probably a better songwriter than Chris Martin though.

^^^

xpost

Yeah, we let celebrities and politicians lecture us about our culture all the time on prime time, not just Bill Cosby. Some have more currency then others. So Bill Cosby irks you and 98 percent of everone else who posts to the Bill Cosby and hip-hop threads on ILM.

Perhaps you could submit an abstract and proposal analyzing his perfidy to EMP.

how dare we let a man with an uneven career speak his mind. what is this, soviet russia??

http://i16.tinypic.com/8b7n9s1.gif

"Yeah, we let celebrities and politicians lecture us about our culture all the time on prime time, not just Bill Cosby. "

Politicians, sure. Political pundits, sure. Semi-retired comedians? George Carlin might get to yak on Bill Maher's show from time to time, but I don't understand how these pronouncements from on high by Bill Cosby merit such respect from the media. He doesn't even have the platform of a talk show, like Rosie O'Donnell did on The View. How can Bill Cosby dispense his opinion on hip hop and generate headlines?

"how dare we let a man with an uneven career speak his mind. what is this, soviet russia??"

An entertainer lecturing other entertainers about how they choose to entertain would have a lot more credibility without Ghost Dad on his ledger. As it is, Bill Cosby should shut up.

perhaps you mean he should continue to voice his opinions but the press shouldn't pay so much attention to them?

everyone has the right to voice their opinions, I'm just honestly perplexed as to why Bill Cosby's opinions are treated as so important. He's not a musician, he's basically retired, he has little public presence, yet his statements about hip hop music generate national headlines.

yeah that movie really does render his career as a black comedian with nine grammies who started out in NINETEEN SIXTY TWO totally moot, not to mention his doctor's of education from UMass, i mean, look: ghost dad.

and all those people who think fat albert and the cosby show broke ground or something, what are they, black? lol. ghost dad.

Mod: Please retitle - "Geir Hongro has defeated Hip Hop"

or alternately - "Bill Cosby has defeated Ghost Dad"

tombot dons duck costume, takes to field, totally catches baseball

how this thread find someone even dumber than geir

"yeah that movie really does render his career as a black comedian with nine grammies who started out in NINETEEN SIXTY TWO totally moot, not to mention his doctor's of education from UMass, i mean, look: ghost dad.

and all those people who think fat albert and the cosby show broke ground or something, what are they, black? lol. ghost dad."

Weird Al Yankovic has 3 grammies. But he didn't start his career in NINETEEN SIXTY TWO, so I guess it's not impressive.

How exactly did the Cosby show break ground? The sweater wearing? It's not like there hadn't been hit shows about black families before. Roseanne was a much more groundbreaking and audacious sitcom, for example. The Cosby Show looks rather unimaginative and pedestrian in comparison.

Oh my goshle.

http://snp.bpb.de/referate/mk4.gif

http://www.actuarialoutpost.com/actuarial_discussion_forum/images/smilies/troll.gif

TS: Lily Allen vs. Cheryl Tweedy

>>How can Bill Cosby dispense his opinion on hip hop and generate >>headlines?

It looked obvious. Get on all the TV and radio talk shows media pundits write about every week.

But who said The Cosby Show was groundbreaking?

>>Semi-retired comedians?

Dennis Miller. Once or twice a week on O'Reilly. And he's a lot less famous than Bill Cosby.

OK, you just cannot abide Bill and his shitty Ghost Dad movie. You've wrestled it right into the turf, thank heaven. Ghost Dad will surely never enjoy a cult renaissance now.

Thankfully, Norman ... Is That You put an end to any hope Redd Foxx might have briefly entertained concerning announcing his opinions in a book after the raging success of Sanford and Son.

"Dennis Miller. Once or twice a week on O'Reilly. And he's a lot less famous than Bill Cosby."

Right, but when Dennis Miller makes some comment on O'Reilly, it's not a major media story. It's just Dennis Miller saying something on O'Reilly and people shrug their shoulders. When Bill Cosby says something it's a BIG DEAL. And I don't understand that yet.

"Thankfully, Norman ... Is That You put an end to any hope Redd Foxx might have briefly entertained concerning announcing his opinions in a book after the raging success of Sanford and Son."

I think this makes my point for me; Redd Foxx lecturing us about our civic discourse would have been silly, but because Bill Cosby takes himself more seriously we're supposed to pay attention to him?

"OK, you just cannot abide Bill and his shitty Ghost Dad movie. You've wrestled it right into the turf, thank heaven. Ghost Dad will surely never enjoy a cult renaissance now."

I think his awful movies, and selling out to do pudding commercials make him a less credible critic of other artists and their work. If he was a serious artist, or better yet a serious musician, I would find it reasonable. But he's a former standup comedian who had a hit sitcom 20 years ago. I don't care what he thinks about hip hop, just as I don't care what Jerry Seinfeld thinks about trance music.

Cosby was kinda responsible for giving Charles Wright & the Watts 103rd Street Rhythm Band a break, so that alone justifies Jello Pudding Man.

I don't dislike Cosby. But I don't think his attempts to defeat criticize hip-hop come close to satire immunity... much less satire from The Boondocks, which was fucking vicious in that one episode but completely fucking hilarious.

Seinfeld's trance blog is like the most awesome thing on the internet

he digs the west coast style oddly enough

xpost

>> think this makes my point for me;

Actually, it was a hoke, as Bill Dana used to say.

Believe me, if Bill Cosby sold out, he did it well before pudding commercials. And lots of people could easily make the case that Bill Cosby was just as ser-ee-us a music maker on Hooray for the Salvation Army Band as Turf Talk is made out to be in today's New York Times arts section.

http://www.dickdestiny.com/flipwilson2.jpg

I'm starting to think matt is like Richard Pryor's character in See No Evil Hear No Evil or something

I'M BLACK?!?!? WHAT?!?!? WHAT ARE THE GUYS AT THE COUNTRY CLUB GOING TO SAY?!?

I'm glad revered African-American icon Weird Al Yankovic, who has never sold out to do pudding pop commercials, is still a viable source of wisdom about American cultural perceptions of black people.

Well, Richard Pryor's motivation to break into stand-up bigtime was mainly because of competition from Cosby.. so indirectly, Cosby made a lot of good things happen.

I'm wondering if Cosby's affiliation with Charles Wright (the guy who N.W.A covered/sample for "Express Yourself") had any influence on Cosby giving this much shit about The Falling Of Grace Of Hip-Hop Or Whatever.

cosby has always been about colorblindness, for better or for worse, and has said as much tons of times - when other black entertainers appear to be encouraging emphasis on the cultural gaps between black + white etc he calls them out for it, because he's never felt that was appropriate. even when he was on I Spy he wanted to avoid racial issues coming up on the show, he's always felt that the way ahead for race relations is for people to not pay so much damn attention to the differences

well although it doesn't take total account of cultural history and previous oppression, i'd say that's surely the way forward too, for better. but please let's not have another butthurt ilx race flameout, because none of us are racist and none of us want to see racism and that is surely the bottom line.

CHECK OUT THIS AMAZING BILL COSBY BOTTLE OPENER

well although it doesn't take total account of cultural history and previous oppression, i'd say that's surely the way forward too, for better. but please let's not have another butthurt ilx race flameout, because none of us are racist and none of us want to see racism and that is surely the bottom line.

-- Just got offed, Sunday, 30 December 2007 23:42 (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/Juror8/thisthread.jpg

l-r: ilx, LZBC

">> think this makes my point for me;

Actually, it was a hoke, as Bill Dana used to say."

I know it was a joke. I think it made my point for me.

>>I don't care what he thinks about hip hop

http://www.dickdestiny.com/Ghost_Dad_Poster.jpg
Perhaps you're about even. Does Cosby care that Ghost Dad was a vexing experience to some?

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/CIN/doneyet~Are-We-Done-Yet-Posters.jpg

lol hoos

How incredibly fitting.

http://www.dickdestiny.com/grady2.JPG

cosby has always been about colorblindness

Tom is 100% right. The whole point behind The Cosby Show -- what supposedly made it so revolutionary for its time -- was that it showed a black family as an upper-middle class nuclear unit, without dwelling on their "blackness." There was a debate at the time about whether de-emphasizing race in the show helped the image of the black American community or swept important issues for "black America" under the rug.

FWIW, I hated the show at the time. Now, it just seems quaint and dated.

And yeah, this thread (and the "Who is the best black SNL character" poll) could quickly go to a bad place.

The Cosby Show is classic for all time. I won't hear a word against it.

Hm. I've mellowed in my feelings toward it. But again, it has a much different feel now, so far removed from its time and context.

Oh it was great when it was new, too. You had to be a snooty indie type to hate on the Cosby show. It was fun and good-natured and Cosby was funny. Also, Phylicia Rashad.

Eh, I was a very little kid in a middle-class black family at the time, so the Cosby Show totally looked like an accurate reflection of life to me, although I'm sure would look off if I went back to it.

Yes, Phylicia Rashad was hott, I'll grant you that.

I never understood all the attention heaped on the daughter as the future sex symbol. I kept thinking, ''G-d, that mom is amazing.'' I don't think MILF has been invented as a term yet.

has = had, in last sentence above. thx.

3 things I just learned about Phylicia Rashad from Wikipedia:

1. Her dad was full-blooded Cherokee.
2. She was married to a member of the Village People in the 70s.
3. She released a disco-concept record based upon the life of Josephine Baker entitled Josephine Superstar.

http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic.php?u=23058tLZrQ&i=827921

ok wow

i kinda wanna hear it

Re: That album cover -- Upside: Mugging for the camera shows off her impressive body; Downside: Mugging for the camera doesn't do justice to her very pretty face.

I'm just... wow.

http://images.celebset.net/pics/P/3629Phylicia%20Rashad.jpg

screw the Cos, let's talk about Phylicia.

Much better. Like I said, hot.

Here's the back cover of Josephine Superstar. Such hotness.

http://i8.tinypic.com/4z2kf8g.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/Juror8/thisthread.jpg

I was going to ask wtf you all were talking about but having seen those pictures of Phylicia Ayers-Allen Rashad I can only say...

...KUDOS

LOL

and xpost LOL

Seinfeld's trance blog is like the most awesome thing on the internet

Somehow I didn't read this until just now - god damn that's a funny thing to say

"Perhaps you're about even. Does Cosby care that Ghost Dad was a vexing experience to some?"

Well since he hasn't starred in a movie since, maybe.

Why are you retarded?

xpost

Tag, you're it.

BUT WHAT ABOUT PHYLICIA?

the first ad hominem. ILM is so disappointing sometimes.

The first, but probably not the last.

Damn........damn...DAMN....

This fuckin guy

Ik,r?

hi can we organise an airstrike on the naacp servers kthxbi

-- Just got offed, Monday, 31 December 2007 12:35 (3 hours ago) Link

wtf

THE SECULATOR strikes again!

like, ethan, i know arguing with you is like arguing with a stone, but if you keep on making out i have even a racist fibre in my body, then you show absolutely no perception, no decency, and a whole load of completely unnecessary and unwelcome personality traits. get off the horse.

i would just like to point out that i have been otm on this thread, and you are all causing this flame-out over absolutely fuck-all. i had little or no interest in the original thread, but you have caused it to be of interest to me with your colour-sensitive fingertips. the whole thing has been unnecessary. what i was trying to say with that sentence which nabisco couldn't make sense out of is that nothing either by us or in the original thread premise was actually racist, and your collective reaction has painted us all in a disgusting light. all the comedians and actors, gangstas, and ghetto boys are all still playing the race card. as far as I'm concerned, looking at modern day africa, they should be so lucky to be in great britain today. this is fucking pathetic of all of you.

-- unfished business, Thursday, March 22, 2007 4:58 PM (9 months ago) Bookmark Link

str8 stuff from padg3tt

srsly tho instead of being abusive and misquote-happy you could explain why you're targeting me like this. is it because i said in passing upthread that bill cosby's attitude was for the best? look, i know you probably disagree with it but it's still an idealist, non-racist position. i'll admit i don't know enough about racial struggles in america to make a definitive judgement, but this doesn't give you an excuse to go around painting me in this light.

no, my excuse is its really funny to watch u spazz the fuck out

good sport on the nets today *cocks rifle*

it is pretty funny to watch lj spazz but it had just gotten more fun to watch matt continue to have no clues ever

lj:

http://www.tapartnership.org/cc/Images/BrushYourShouldersOffpic.jpg

Two words: jello pops

always interesting to read what john d. has to say, but otherwise, why are people arguing with geir? you can make all the polite suggestions you want, but his worldview is completely hermetic and he will never give you a chance. i wouldn't pretend to be able to make a specific diagnosis but he's clearly mentally ill.

there's a basic ungenerosity, an unwillingness to engage the world as a complex thing, that marks geir's worldview (and doesn't really mark the worldview of even other, often infuriating, ilxors with mental disorders who have hobby horses). i've never met anyone like this IRL, i presume everyone would give them a wide berth. sorry to be belligerent and personal but i've tried arguing with geir and -- well the neologism "geirbot" was coined for a reason.

The Cosby Show is classic for all time. I won't hear a word against it.

I got season 1 for Christmas! I didn't realize that one of my favorite episodes of all time, the "Monopoly money" lecture episode, was the fucking PILOT!

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life.

No wonder you get Ds in class!

err I'm sorry, that's "No wonder you get Ds in everything!"

I like the one where he dreams he gives birth to a hoagie.

Some David Lynch shit there.

so many classics.

does anybody remember what episode Cliff started talking about Theo's little league game where the game broke open on a grand slam bunt?

how about the episode when Claire asked Cliff to pee in her mouth...

?!

whoa, amateurist is back!

the gordon gartrell episode of the cosby show is one of the best of all time.

the cosby show is great.

i'll even rep for a different world. i did an appreciation thread on ile once.

cosby universe 4 life.

Hat tip to the Raggett on the other Cosby thread.

BILL COSBY KILLS HIP HOP DEAD

Of course, I just ripped all my Watts 103rd Street Rhythm Band releases to my pod, and now I read this. ;_;

http://www.funfry.com/data/510/cosby.gif

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/2491/avatar4620550ob0.gif

omfg help.

help.

HELP

You know what, Mackro... I fucked up the other night, totally forgot Method Man : (

all is forgiven because you've provided evidence that Cosby can never get enough of that jell'oh!

the best part of that second gif is the gimp hand

He hasn't. He has my full support, and I hope he eventually will. But at the moment, there is still hip-hop around. The Billboard list is crowded with it.

http://www.bet.com/Assets/BET/Published/image/jpeg/84d6e47c-07d8-5738-ebba-64edce351aef-bill_cosby.jpg

WITH MY BARE FUCKING HANDS

hongro + cosby = a force more powerful than you can imagine

Well then:

Did Cos just tell me to have a coke and a smile? RT: @BillCosby Now you will learn @QuestLove, to keep your mouth shut

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpDnqZsCUyA&feature=player_embedded#!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0BKeb1mFA4