― Jay Boucher, Wednesday, 14 December 2005 23:04 (eighteen years ago) link
― Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Wednesday, 14 December 2005 23:15 (eighteen years ago) link
FWIW - a few of my favorite original British folkies:Shiley & Dolly CollinsJohn Kirkpatrick (early 70s stuff is great)The WatersonsAndy Irvine & Paul BradyA L LloydNic Jones (criminally unsung!?)...and many more...
― Rombald, Wednesday, 14 December 2005 23:35 (eighteen years ago) link
- Espers- the return of Vashti Bunyan
― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Wednesday, 14 December 2005 23:43 (eighteen years ago) link
― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Wednesday, 14 December 2005 23:44 (eighteen years ago) link
I would recommend these records as a way of getting into folk, or just for any reason whatsoever bcz they're fucking amazing:
Fairport Convention - Liege and Lief (Tam Lyn is amybe my favourite song ever.)Steeleye Span - The Lark in the Morning (a two CD comp. of their first 3 LPs which is all you need by them - includes a transcendent version of When I Was on Horeseback. These LPs are also a big fave with Simon Reynolds)Shirley Collins and the Albion Country Band - No Roses (the only folk album to feature someone to have played on a damned LP)
They should all be able to be found cheaply.
Alasdair Roberts - Farewell Sorrow is an excellent modern LP and on Drag City/Rough Trade so easy to find for indie kids.
The show might've been talking about Spiers and Boden or Eliza Carthy, who're more part of folk music 'proper' or anyone though, so this may be of no help.
― Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Thursday, 15 December 2005 00:30 (eighteen years ago) link
If anyone can point me toward good books on this subject I'd be very happy.
― Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Thursday, 15 December 2005 00:33 (eighteen years ago) link
― Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Thursday, 15 December 2005 00:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Thursday, 15 December 2005 00:42 (eighteen years ago) link
"English-rose front-man, Moray, laces the lyrics of folklore with powerful Matrix-styled guitars, film-score piano and a backing band which grinds together electric double bass and thundering drums. His presence on stage is something to behold. He looks scruffy on his website but he's beautiful in person.
Don't confuse this fresh indie approach with the folk rock of Fairport Convention or Steeleye Span, but rather be surprised to sense impressions of Ben Folds greets Depeche Mode greets Evanescence. It's all here, whichever musical genre ticks your box, Moray can offer it up without confusion or the awkwardness of musical experimentations. He even played the piano with his arms crossed at one point."
― Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Thursday, 15 December 2005 00:47 (eighteen years ago) link
― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Thursday, 15 December 2005 00:49 (eighteen years ago) link
― Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Thursday, 15 December 2005 01:00 (eighteen years ago) link
Re: Jim Moray - I suppose the artists that provoke the strongest reactions are the most interesting... I like the idea that folk can be moved in new and strange directions, but what I've heard of Jim's music does nothing for me - the beats and sounds seemed a little clichéd and it all felt a bit MOR to me, I'm afraid. Shame, because I'd really like to like him! :(
― Rombald, Thursday, 15 December 2005 08:09 (eighteen years ago) link
I don't know how helpful it will be to the original poster, but http://www.theunbrokencircle.co.uk/ might turn up some interesting stuff, although it's more concerned with psychedelic, odd and abstract folky stuff (oldies like Incredible String Band, Comus, Forest and new stuff like the 'New Weird America' thing).
― Rombald, Thursday, 15 December 2005 08:17 (eighteen years ago) link
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0747553300/qid=1134640482/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_2_1/026-1867087-2774036
― Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 15 December 2005 09:55 (eighteen years ago) link
... and this is significant in what way exactly?
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 December 2005 09:56 (eighteen years ago) link
― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 15 December 2005 10:07 (eighteen years ago) link
The Eighteenth Day of May come closer than anyone else I've heard to that late 60s / early 70s British folk-rock sound. They're good.
― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 15 December 2005 10:07 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 December 2005 10:12 (eighteen years ago) link
― sean gramophone (Sean M), Thursday, 15 December 2005 10:15 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 15 December 2005 10:24 (eighteen years ago) link
Lucky Luke (from Glasgow) are great, though... go see them live and/or anticipate the next record.
― sean gramophone (Sean M), Thursday, 15 December 2005 10:28 (eighteen years ago) link
Okay, so we're talking about folk rock here right,rather than straight-up trad folk, which can hot and heavy enough in its own addled way? I would love it if I could stumble on some decent bands that were ploughing the same sort of furrow as peak-era Fairport or Trees or whatever and that didn't suck outright. I know it's sort of backwards looking of me, but there's a certain clanging and organic feel and texture and god damn guitar sound that I never really feel I can hear enough of. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places. All I can think of right now that fit the bill in any way are Ghost and Acid Mothers Temple ca. La Novia. Certainly no British bands that I've come across.
X-posts: I don't mind Espers, but they seem rather too gentle for me. Lucky Luke I've heard of, but am yet to hear.
― NickB (NickB), Thursday, 15 December 2005 10:32 (eighteen years ago) link
this is the place to go: http://www.thegreenmanfestival.co.uk/
for all your brit-folk needs!
also worth looking out for, a new compilation called Strange Folk, with tracks from the aforementioned Vashti, Tyranosaurus Rex, Donovan, Espers, Incredible String Band, Lucky Luke (iirc) and loads of other ace people I can't remember cos i left it at home.
― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Thursday, 15 December 2005 10:34 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 December 2005 10:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Thursday, 15 December 2005 10:39 (eighteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Thursday, 15 December 2005 10:47 (eighteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Thursday, 15 December 2005 10:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 December 2005 10:59 (eighteen years ago) link
-- We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (dadaismu...), December 15th, 2005 9:56 AM. (Dada) (later)
I just thought it was ILM law to mention Reynolds whenever possible.
I wish there were more songs like Tam Lyn by Fairport, i.e funky Black Sabbath. Swedish doom band Witchcraft get there sometimes.
most of the the wyrd-folk stuff is only surface level weird. The second Steeleye recording of The Blacksmith is so much more bizarre than any of them, and that isn't even what it's trtying to do - what an amazing arrangement it has. Modern wyrd-folk types too much like Colin Hunt types... "You do have to be mad to work here but it doesn't help" etc.
― Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Thursday, 15 December 2005 11:04 (eighteen years ago) link
You're right
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 December 2005 11:06 (eighteen years ago) link
The message I'm getting from this thread is that newer musicans aren't up to the standard of older musicians in folk music? Obviously ppl like mattacks, dransfield, guys from gryphon, thompson etc are hard to follow (evidence on eg Fairport's ROCKING live album "House Full") but I had kind of thought folk would be a genre where powerful/expressive musicianship/group playing would still be at some sort of premium. Dissapointing if not so.
Anyway, "No Roses" by Shirley Collins/Albion band is fucking great, and should get more props, basically.
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 15 December 2005 11:25 (eighteen years ago) link
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 15 December 2005 11:28 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 December 2005 11:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 15 December 2005 11:32 (eighteen years ago) link
AFAIK the terrible term wyrd-folk was coined by Stone Breath's Tim Renner.
― Rombald, Thursday, 15 December 2005 11:33 (eighteen years ago) link
But, before I begin to sound like a prog rocker, you don't have to be a brilliant musician to play folk music - in fact, one of the reasons I got sick of that whole scene was its muso-ishness (especially, fiddle players who only want to play as fast and as twiddly as possible!). To play like Fairport you have to be pretty good tho of course!
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 December 2005 11:35 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 December 2005 11:37 (eighteen years ago) link
Morris On I like, other Albions stuff I'm not mad on, really. Perhaps the drums are why? I haven't listened to any for a while.
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 15 December 2005 11:39 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 December 2005 11:42 (eighteen years ago) link
That's a good record that is. 'Lay Me Low' or whatever it's called just kills me. Totally tramples over any sort of aesthetic barriers I might have erected against that sort of soppy twaddle and stomps all over my jaded old heart. Sniffle.
― NickB (NickB), Thursday, 15 December 2005 11:45 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 December 2005 11:48 (eighteen years ago) link
Didn't really know there was any "revival" of British folk right now in terms of new bands playing it. I knew there was a revival of interest in the last few years, otherwise I wouldn't really know who Fairport Convention was, honestly.
I've often thought that 60s British folk revivalists treated folk music with much more respect and subtlty than their American counterparts did (who went for "simplicity" and "rawness"). This might also explain why I find Brit bands better at playing blues than their white American counterparts.
― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Thursday, 15 December 2005 15:55 (eighteen years ago) link
― ortho_bob (ortho_bob), Thursday, 15 December 2005 16:20 (eighteen years ago) link
― myopic_void (myopic_void), Thursday, 15 December 2005 17:28 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 December 2005 17:38 (eighteen years ago) link
― myopic_void (myopic_void), Thursday, 15 December 2005 17:46 (eighteen years ago) link
― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Thursday, 15 December 2005 17:56 (eighteen years ago) link
search: Shirley and Dolly Collins "Plains of Waterloo."
and sweet heavens, some forty posts in let me be the first to say the hallowed name of Davy Graham.
― imbidimts, Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:03 (eighteen years ago) link
Have you seen them? Because they fucking do. Or did when they opened for Devendra in Edinburgh. But crap.
― sean gramophone (Sean M), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:19 (eighteen years ago) link
Espers draws far more influence from Pentangle and Bread, Love and Dreams.
Sorry. But you drew a very poor comparison.
― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:31 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tripmaker (SDWitzm), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tripmaker (SDWitzm), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:38 (eighteen years ago) link
Dave Mattacks was playing in bar bands here in Boston for a while a few years ago (and may still be). He was introduced to me by a friend who said "hey, you like Richard Thompson, don't you? This is Dave; he played drums with him."
As a huge fan of the complete family tree of Brit-folk(-rock), I don't think the entirely unassuming Mr. Mattacks was quite prepared for the amount of drool that ensued. It somehow seemed even bigger to me than meeting, say, Richard Thompson himself, because Mattacks defined that particular sound as much as anybody. Frankly, I think he was frightened by me.
When I asked him why he moved to Boston, he said, "just to try get gigs." As much as I know how small our idols' roles are in the world of commercial music, it was crushing to hear that out of him.
― southern lights, Thursday, 15 December 2005 19:46 (eighteen years ago) link
i certainly hear influences of the old stuff in the new, but nothing too much alike. espers don't sound much like fairport to me, aside from the pretty vocals. i saw them once live and they were more weird sounding, like almost "trance" and really dark. i don't know, i have looked into them and thier inflkuences, but most of the stuff they talk about or people who like them tal about seems so unheard of or really hard to find. i don't think devendra's stuff sounds like any of it. i'd like to hear that lucky luke band.
― peter x (bucksbreeze), Thursday, 15 December 2005 19:55 (eighteen years ago) link
― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Thursday, 15 December 2005 22:34 (eighteen years ago) link
We seem to be agreeing on just about everything here
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 10:09 (eighteen years ago) link
― sean gramophone (Sean M), Friday, 16 December 2005 10:58 (eighteen years ago) link
just not getting any of the uk folk music.
and however said that the espers sounds like bread over fairport is spot on.
18th day of may is too much of a fairport copyist band. pretty dull fair.
― doomie x, Friday, 16 December 2005 11:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― doomie x, Friday, 16 December 2005 11:05 (eighteen years ago) link
i have a lot of time for lucky luke..
― jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:06 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:07 (eighteen years ago) link
― jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:07 (eighteen years ago) link
lucky luke is dull as fuck!! its like listening to grateful dead b-sides.
dadaimus ... did you get the vashti record. its pretty. but there is absolutely nothing of substance. i couldn't remember one song after it finished playing!
― doomie x, Friday, 16 December 2005 11:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:09 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:09 (eighteen years ago) link
i think with Vashti -- it has that hip 'quotient' ... nobody dareth say that the album was dull as fuck because you know, its like VASHTI, and its like so awesome she recorded something.
― doomie x, Friday, 16 December 2005 11:11 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:12 (eighteen years ago) link
― doomie x, Friday, 16 December 2005 11:13 (eighteen years ago) link
― jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:14 (eighteen years ago) link
I prefer the second Steeleye Span LP to the first, and I prefer both to Liege and Lief.
Hello Doomie!
― Tim (Tim), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:14 (eighteen years ago) link
― jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:16 (eighteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:16 (eighteen years ago) link
its funny re: patti smith. i remember in 87 i heard about her and i was like i have to hear some of this music and i went out and bought ... the book of life?? something like that? and it was so dull. i didnt buy another patti smith album for five years.
(Someone criticised VB on here many moons ago and received a not-very-impressed email from La Bunyan herself, I understand. How exciting!)
Folk divas. I can't think of anything more boring! Hey Tim!
― doomie x, Friday, 16 December 2005 11:16 (eighteen years ago) link
― doomie x, Friday, 16 December 2005 11:20 (eighteen years ago) link
REALLY curious about Alexander Tucker.
― sean gramophone (Sean M), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:23 (eighteen years ago) link
― doomie x, Friday, 16 December 2005 11:25 (eighteen years ago) link
― doomie x, Friday, 16 December 2005 11:29 (eighteen years ago) link
Anyone like Anne Briggs? Both squiffier and pithier than VB I think, though inhabiting a lot of the same territory.
― NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:29 (eighteen years ago) link
yeah, he is. and he's like some fucked up guitar god! i can only think of him and voice of the seven woods ... i've seen so many bad contemporay uk folk acts ... devendra banhart has alot to answer for (and i like devendra banhart!)
― doomie x, Friday, 16 December 2005 11:32 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:32 (eighteen years ago) link
yeah, i'd have to agree. i got some micheal chapman albums and still not sure what to think ... was he just a proto-david gray!!
― doomie x, Friday, 16 December 2005 11:34 (eighteen years ago) link
― sean gramophone (Sean M), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:36 (eighteen years ago) link
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00000JAXS.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg
Aww, I think it's wonderful. I'm almost as fond of that as Shirley Collins. Someone else that refuses to sing anymore. Why was there this sudden loss of confidence in these people?
― NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:42 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:44 (eighteen years ago) link
... and Linda Thompson!
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:46 (eighteen years ago) link
― myopic_void (myopic_void), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:51 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:54 (eighteen years ago) link
Voice of the Seven Woods is one of the best things I've heard this year. I hope he comes and plays near me soon
― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Friday, 16 December 2005 13:18 (eighteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 13:36 (eighteen years ago) link
so far: shirley collins and nic jones are GREAT. i got on reccomendation a shirley collins album with davy graham and i have listened twice, i love it. i have one of graham's solos, but no listen yet.
the espers vs lucky luke faux debate: esprs win by miles...i downloaded lucky luke and i do really like it, but it just doesn't measure up and sound as, um, "good". i guess you folk experts can rip me to shreds if i'm wrong.
i found this, too: http://www.wnyc.org/shows/spinning/episodes/05282004
from the espers.org site...
it's espers doing a really beautiful and haunting radio set and then playing some of thier favorite songs from other artists....more to add to my searchlist.
― peter x (bucksbreeze), Friday, 16 December 2005 14:25 (eighteen years ago) link
http://www.moorsmagazine.com/images3/gaughanhandful.jpg
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 14:29 (eighteen years ago) link
― peter x (bucksbreeze), Friday, 16 December 2005 14:31 (eighteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:20 (eighteen years ago) link
― sean gramophone (Sean M), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:22 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:27 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:29 (eighteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:29 (eighteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:31 (eighteen years ago) link
I think an act needs to come along with the songwriting CHOPS to really do justice to updating the British Folk. Like some sorta Pentangle meets Sonic Youth band. Or Kevin Sheilds meets Shirley Collins. That would be interesting.
There's so much attention being paid to so many strands of music right now, that the effect of the song is being diluted. This applies to a ton of the US free folk stuff. Everyone is discovering early 70s Japanese stuff, European free improv, the more obscure strains of Krautrock, and all this crazy private press English folk and psych, and before they've digested it, they've attempted to synthesize it in their output.
Perhaps this bodes well for some really cool music in the next 5 years. The rediscovery of all this great music has taken place, and now artists are going to be able to soak it up and turn it into something new.
― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:32 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:35 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:37 (eighteen years ago) link
Does anyone have Within Sound, Shirley's boxset? I'm wondering if I should buy it, since I already have all of her albums that I could find.
― The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:41 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:41 (eighteen years ago) link
I don't know of any comps, but I'm sure someone here could make you one.
― The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:42 (eighteen years ago) link
― The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:43 (eighteen years ago) link
― peter x (bucksbreeze), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:44 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:49 (eighteen years ago) link
OTM! They want to run before they can walk. sometimes this can work. there is something to be said for youthful hubris and ambition. for me, the tower recordings might have come closest. they were always trying something new years ago and they could play. and they had good songs. i don't know, not everyone is trying to do the same thing, i suppose. they might be inspired by pentangle, but know that they will never be able to play like them. something good can still come of pentangle-love.
― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:50 (eighteen years ago) link
Milkmaid, I bought the 4CD Shirley set because I was beginning to love her and I didn't have any of the LPs. Also it was £25 and that seemed the right kind of price to be paying. Plus it was a bad day and I needed cheering up. It's a very nice thing, but I'm not sure I'd want to invest if I had all the proper LPs.
― Tim (Tim), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:52 (eighteen years ago) link
― Rombald, Friday, 16 December 2005 16:53 (eighteen years ago) link
A second helping of acid folk in its myriad, mystical and manifold forms from that great compiler and archivist of Britain's heritage past, Bob Stanley. Artists range from those wll known to the public at large (Donovan, Pentangle, John Renbourn, Roy Harper, Steeleye Span) across more traditional artists respected in their field (Shirley Collins, Sweeney's Men, Anne Briggs) to artists familiar to regular Freak punters (Mellow Candle, Mr Fox, Dando Shaft, Steve Tilston, Duncan Browne, Keith Christmas) and utter obscurities from the farthest-flung flodden fielde (Loudest Whisper, Shide And Acorn, Midwinter, Green Man, Stone Angel).
― NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:55 (eighteen years ago) link
I think, for me, a lot of the focus is on the traditional material, the songs themselves. Hearing Shirley Collins and Jean Ritchie both sing "Sweet William and Lady Margaret" amazes me -- they're virtually the same, but the subtle differences (in pronunciation, phrasing, etc) are worth hearing side by side. Plus, it elicits a lot of crying.
― The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:56 (eighteen years ago) link
When I saw Espers, actually, they had one huge-ass jam part that sort of approached this idea, The rest of their set didn't really stand up, though
― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:57 (eighteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:58 (eighteen years ago) link
― peter x (bucksbreeze), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:00 (eighteen years ago) link
... download this, people... and "Standing on the Shore"
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:04 (eighteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:07 (eighteen years ago) link
band that could feel the folke vibe live really well (and can play their asses off): Ghost
― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:09 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tim (Tim), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:11 (eighteen years ago) link
― The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:14 (eighteen years ago) link
― Rombald, Friday, 16 December 2005 17:19 (eighteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:21 (eighteen years ago) link
― The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:23 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:25 (eighteen years ago) link
― Rombald, Friday, 16 December 2005 17:27 (eighteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:31 (eighteen years ago) link
Fledg'ling records catalogue
It's not listed. Fire off an email to them maybe? What a great, great catalogue, anyway. Plus, I didn't realise "Power of the True Love Knot" had come out on CD. (x-post, gah)
[OK, I edited the URL so it's the correct link, not an "owned" jpg. GAH. Apologies]
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:34 (eighteen years ago) link
― The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:34 (eighteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:36 (eighteen years ago) link
SIMON FINN + GREGG WEISSThe Freebutt, Phoenix Place, Brighton BN2 9NG Tel: 01273-603974Tickets:£5/4 conc. available on the door/ Rounder Records: 01273 325440/Resident: 01273 606312Authentic "lost" psyche folk legend plays gig to promote the reissue of his sole LP...originally released in 1971 , it was re-released last year and picked up on by such knowledgeable heads of class underground as David Tibet (current 93) and Thurston Moore. Has recently toured Europe with Six Organs Of Admittance. Slightly too dark to be pure hippy, slightly too thunderous to be pure folk, this is truly a rediscovery to look into...
― NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:42 (eighteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:43 (eighteen years ago) link
― The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:48 (eighteen years ago) link
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:55 (eighteen years ago) link
yeah, i take it back anyway. i was trying to think of something that i would have considered too old-fogeyish to listen to in the 80's, but i liked a lot of that canterbury stuff even then. and other pastoral folkish prog like curved air and such.
― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 18:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 16 December 2005 18:09 (eighteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 18:17 (eighteen years ago) link
http://www.furious.com/perfect/shirleycollins.html
― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 18:18 (eighteen years ago) link
― Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Friday, 16 December 2005 18:57 (eighteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 19:18 (eighteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 19:23 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 16 December 2005 19:36 (eighteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 19:52 (eighteen years ago) link
Yeah, the new Vashti Bunyan album has only two or three memorable cuts. As stated before; it's pretty, but also pretty unsubstantial (Maybe I'll get an e-mail from her, too!).Still, I ADORE "Just Another Diamond Day" and her work with AC with all my heart.
― Nathaniel (Horbgorbling Slubberdegullion), Friday, 16 December 2005 20:42 (eighteen years ago) link
Seconding the Mellow Candle respect. Swaddling Songs is a gem.
Anyone here familiar with Fionn McCool (sp?) I read about them in a newsletter over the past year, and I can't remember where. Maybe Other Music? They were a 70s band who were compared to Mellow Candle.
I love this stuff!!!
― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:10 (eighteen years ago) link
introduction to British Folk Music of the 1960s, a fine two CD set. Donovan, Bert Jansch, The Incredible String Band, Pentangle, et cetera
― Wilhelm, Friday, 16 December 2005 22:33 (eighteen years ago) link
The Oysterband are also not bad, Freedom and Rain with June Tabor is quite likable.
― theo, Friday, 16 December 2005 23:06 (eighteen years ago) link
― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 16 December 2005 23:13 (eighteen years ago) link
NICK DRAKEBRIDGET ST. JOHNMIDWINTER STONE ANGELTIR NA NOGJAKE HOLMESERIC ANDERSENKAREN DALTONLINDA PERHACSJUDEE SILL (reissue this year)AGINCOURTFLESH MAGGOTSANNO DOMINIMAGNA CARTACOMUSSPIROGYRABARRY DRANSFIELDDAVID ACKLESBILL FAYDAVID BLUETOM RAPP & PEARLS BEFORE SWINESTEVE TILSTONNICK GARRIEGARY HIGGINS (reissue this year)AMAZING BLONDELSPRIGUNS OF TOLGUSGRYPHONNUMBER NINE BREAD STREETRICHARD & MIMI FARIÑATIM BUCKLEYARLO GUTHRIETOWNES VAN ZANDTPHIL OCHSJONI MITCHELLJOHN RENBOURNKATE & ANNA MCGARRIGLETHE YOUNGBLOODSFLYING BURRITO BROTHERSMARTIN CARTHYTOM PAXTONFRED NEILCAT STEVENS
― antonio, Friday, 16 December 2005 23:23 (eighteen years ago) link
― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 16 December 2005 23:25 (eighteen years ago) link
DEVENDRA BANHART DAY -- BANDS CONFIRMED SO FARDEVENDRA BANHARTVASHTI BUNYANVETIVERESPERSBAT FOR LASHESJANA HUNTERTHE METALLIC FALCONSDANIELLE STECH-HOMSYBERT JANSCH
There are worse reasons to go to Camber.
― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Sunday, 18 December 2005 13:18 (eighteen years ago) link
― peter x (bucksbreeze), Sunday, 18 December 2005 18:10 (eighteen years ago) link
― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Sunday, 18 December 2005 20:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tim (Tim), Monday, 19 December 2005 10:23 (eighteen years ago) link
"FOLK IS BACK!" mrs anne ouncer, on the number one this week.
― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 19 December 2005 10:41 (eighteen years ago) link
thirded! i know i've big-upped them here before.
― bob abernethy (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 19 December 2005 12:51 (eighteen years ago) link
― ortho_bob (ortho_bob), Monday, 19 December 2005 15:33 (eighteen years ago) link
― The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 14:49 (eighteen years ago) link
― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 17:10 (eighteen years ago) link
Beyond the Carthy/Swarbrick and Nic Jones level of recognition, there are people like Pete Coe and Chris Foster (who are both still playing) that have made some excellent albums over the years. Also, I am surprised that Swan Arcade are not mentioned more often - I strongly urge anyone to check them out. I think you can get a couple of compilations of their albums that are now unavailable.
― patric, Friday, 30 December 2005 21:35 (eighteen years ago) link
― TRG (TRG), Friday, 30 December 2005 22:05 (eighteen years ago) link
from http://www.daveygraham.moonfruit.com/WHITECHAPEL ART GALLERY80 - 82 WHITECHAPEL HIGH STREETLONDON E1 7QXTel: 020 7522 7888 WWW.WHITECHAPEL.ORGFriday 3 Feb, 7pmDAVEY GRAHAMVirtuoso guitarist Davey Graham plays a rare and intimate acoustic show at the Whitechapel Gallery. One of the key figures in the British folk-blues movement of the 1960s and one of the earliest exponents of world music, Graham has inspired a host of artists from Richard Thompson, Ry Cooder, Nick Drake, Jimmy Page, Bert Jansch, to Graham Coxonand a ream of younger musicians.Limited tickets advanced booking only: £10/8 concs*Book now : 020 7522 7888CONTACT: BEATRICE DILLON07940 464676 beadillon@yahoo.com
― NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 11:47 (eighteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 11:49 (eighteen years ago) link
― jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 11:50 (eighteen years ago) link
http://www.daveygraham.moonfruit.com/
It looks like he's another cult/off the critical map type UK artist who got fucked over by his record company (see also: bill nelson) w/no hope of recompense, & who is not "big" enough to get enough publicity to rectify this?
I'll stick an order in for his new self-produced CD, I think.
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 11:56 (eighteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 12:13 (eighteen years ago) link
― jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 12:16 (eighteen years ago) link
I ordered a copy of the forthcoming CD, anyway, looking forward to hearing it.
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 12:20 (eighteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 12:27 (eighteen years ago) link
And Folk
― stew!, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 12:27 (eighteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 12:32 (eighteen years ago) link
I started to say Folk Routes/New Routes is stunning. I love the way DG adds a bluesy twang to the likes of Nottamun Town. Wonderful.
Espers I find pretty but they don't really have the songs. Maybe I need to give them more time, but live, they only got going in the last song.Lucky Luke are great and as lovely as the record is they sound quite different live. More stripped down, with a more rockin' rhythm section. It really suits them, and Lucy's voice is getting stronger all the time.
― stew!, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 12:32 (eighteen years ago) link
― sean gramophone (Sean M), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 12:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 12:55 (eighteen years ago) link
Espers... oh dear. What is the point in this day and age of somebody doing the same old version of 'Rosemary Lane' ripped off from Anne Briggs or Bert Jansch? And doing it completely insipidly and unoriginally, moreover?
There's something a lot weirder about hearing the great above-mentioned Duncan Williamson sing an ancient traditional ballad such as, for example, 'The Lady and the Blacksmith' (Child #44) than there is about the output of some wispy-bearded bedroom boy with a copy of 'Pink Moon', a sampler an acoustic guitar.
Then again, most of what passes for contemporary 'traditional' British music such as Kate Rusby, Jim Moray and the dread Cara Dillon, et al, is IMO just as unpalatable. Your best best is to go back to the field recordings, the proper singers.
― is, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 11:21 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 11:29 (eighteen years ago) link
― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 11:31 (eighteen years ago) link
I love electricity too.
― is, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 11:43 (eighteen years ago) link
But don't you think that some great art can come out of romanticism?
― NickB (NickB), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 12:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 12:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 12:04 (eighteen years ago) link
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 12:06 (eighteen years ago) link
― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 12:10 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 12:13 (eighteen years ago) link
This comment speaks volumes about your ignorance. You will miss out on some good stuff if this continues to be your attitude.
― is, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 12:17 (eighteen years ago) link
― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 12:18 (eighteen years ago) link
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 12:21 (eighteen years ago) link
A lot of the people you disparage (probably without having listened to them properly) as 'whiskery old geezers' from the 'turn of the century' (which century?) are AMAZING singers. It's a shame that you won't be open-minded enough to find that out.
Of course there is a lot of great music and a lot of great singers nowadays too. But not in the field of 'folk' music or 'new folk' music.
― is, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 12:22 (eighteen years ago) link
― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 12:24 (eighteen years ago) link
― is, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 12:25 (eighteen years ago) link
― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 12:26 (eighteen years ago) link
― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 12:27 (eighteen years ago) link
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 12:28 (eighteen years ago) link
― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 12:29 (eighteen years ago) link
I apologise. It's just that appreciating, say, Fairport or Steeleye Span etc but then not appreciating the source singers from whom they got a lot of their material... well, that just don't add up to me.
― is, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 12:31 (eighteen years ago) link
― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 12:33 (eighteen years ago) link
― is, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 12:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― is, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 12:44 (eighteen years ago) link
― Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 12:59 (eighteen years ago) link
Can you recommend some titles on CD? ie pre-1960s revival?
― bham, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:06 (eighteen years ago) link
First, it really comes down to a question of taste, and for me, music is all about the arrangement. Ed (of this parish) recently copied me a bunch of Nu Folk - mainly Bellowhead and John & John. Predictably, I enjoyed the Bellowhead a great deal more, even though it covered a lot of the same material, (same songs in a couple of incidences) because I just enjoyed listened to an 11 piece band with multiple harmonies more than I enjoyed listening to just two blokes, with more limited arrangements.
But that brings back to the notion of "authenticity" and which is more "authentic" - listening to some "turn of the century crackly voiced bloke on an old record" and field recordings or listening to more modern people reinterpreting or "romanticising" it.
Well, folk has *always* been a participatory artform. It's not just about one bloke with a guitar, it's about everyone down the pub, or on the village green, or wherever, getting together to sing songs they all know. The second point I wanted to make is that folk has always been about co-opting traditional songs, changing them to suit your conditions or your needs - every person who performs a song adds something of their own to it. That's what the folk tradition is. Not slavishly recreating whatever someone else used to do.
Anyway, that's just my 2p. I should get my dad in here to comment further because he knows what he's talking about more than I do.
― Cuair Crithlonracha (kate), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:15 (eighteen years ago) link
― is, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:17 (eighteen years ago) link
― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:23 (eighteen years ago) link
― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:25 (eighteen years ago) link
With regard to the vocal qualities of some of the old singers - the important thing was the songs they sang, not the singers... and anyway, I'd rather listen to an unpolished singer than some Radio Two-friendly 'folk' singer like... won't name any names.
Also, the only way to avoid refashioning the past (in the mistaken belief that you're doing something 'new' - i.e. Espers, Tunng, etc) -is to be aware of the past.
― is, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:26 (eighteen years ago) link
Exactly. So is it really necessary to listen to unaccompanied field-recordings?
― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:29 (eighteen years ago) link
― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:30 (eighteen years ago) link
Of course you don't HAVE TO listen to anything.
― is, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:33 (eighteen years ago) link
Were they really "aware" of that? Or were they just people who weren't very good singers?
― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:35 (eighteen years ago) link
― is, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:38 (eighteen years ago) link
I'm not a folk expert, but to my ears thier version of that song sounds very much like thier own. They claim to have lifted it right off of Jansch who lifted it right off of Clive Palmer. When you read interviews with those guys, they seem pretty deep into the traditions and roots off all sorts of music, espescially British folk. I'm going to listen to it now!
― peter x (bucksbreeze), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― is, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:42 (eighteen years ago) link
― is, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:44 (eighteen years ago) link
― peter x (bucksbreeze), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:45 (eighteen years ago) link
― is, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:47 (eighteen years ago) link
― Cuair Crithlonracha (kate), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:49 (eighteen years ago) link
― peter x (bucksbreeze), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:51 (eighteen years ago) link
The problem I have is that this is like the Lomax blues recordings, where Lomax seemed to purposefully seek out amateurs and field-hands and whatever thru some notion that they were more "authentic" - adn in doing so produced a distorted picture of what was actually going on. Actually expression or "chops" play a pretty big part in living folk traditions
― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:51 (eighteen years ago) link
― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:53 (eighteen years ago) link
Definitely... take, for example, Roscoe Holcomb. Technically dazzling banjo playing. And Jeannie Robertson could have been an opera singer! I love them both - but not necessarily for their technical abilities - but for their abilities to make me feel things.
The best singers/musicians make it sound effortless, as the above-mentioned do. They're technically accomplished but not show-offy.
― is, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:56 (eighteen years ago) link
― is, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:58 (eighteen years ago) link
― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 14:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 14:01 (eighteen years ago) link
I've never really liked show-offs in any sphere.
― is, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 14:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― emma cleveland (emma cleveland), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 23:11 (eighteen years ago) link
― electric sound of jim (and why not) (electricsound), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 23:14 (eighteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 23:24 (eighteen years ago) link
And if they're doing a lot to make people source out their influences, than kudos to them.
― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Wednesday, 1 March 2006 02:01 (eighteen years ago) link
You could maybe argue they belong to some sort of British pastoral tradition that includes poeple like Robert Wyatt, but I guess that's not as snappy as "nu-folk", "wyrd folk" or worse, "folktronica".
Or you could just dismiss them as an indie band with a Wicker Man fetish.
― bham, Wednesday, 1 March 2006 10:23 (eighteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 1 March 2006 10:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― nicky lo-fi (nicky lo-fi), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 08:37 (seventeen years ago) link
http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/news/06-06/07.shtml
― kevin barking (arghargh), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 20:34 (seventeen years ago) link
http://www.oldhamtinkers.com/index.html
― -- (688), Friday, 5 January 2007 14:03 (seventeen years ago) link
― NickB, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 08:24 (seventeen years ago) link
This second Sweeney's Men record really is fucking fanTASTIC.
― ian, Sunday, 11 April 2010 05:17 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah, tracks of sweeney is some haunting stuff
― velko, Sunday, 11 April 2010 06:35 (thirteen years ago) link
anyone read this Electric Eden book (guess it is not out in the states yet)? Deals with "visionary British musicians" including a lot of british folk rockers. sounds like a good read anyway.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 12 January 2011 22:06 (thirteen years ago) link
I raved about it in this thread:
Good books about music
― ban this sick stunt (anagram), Wednesday, 12 January 2011 22:12 (thirteen years ago) link
oh cool -- looks like it is being published in the states this May ...
― tylerw, Wednesday, 12 January 2011 22:14 (thirteen years ago) link
Reading it (v. slowly) at the moment. Makes me want to give Vashti Bunyan another chance.
― seminal fuiud (NickB), Wednesday, 12 January 2011 22:20 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs9PMky7Fj0
^ Fantastic clip of the Watersons singing 'Hal-An-Toe' in a pub in Hull in the mid-60's. Becoming slowly obsessed with this tune, gets me right in the guts every time.
― seminal fuiud (NickB), Friday, 14 January 2011 17:15 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEwl_nvtt8A
^ And here's the Shirley Collins version with of course that great jews harp solo in it. It's the dulcimer that really gets me though.
― seminal fuiud (NickB), Friday, 14 January 2011 17:18 (thirteen years ago) link
ah that's great, thanks for posting (the watersons clip)
― tylerw, Friday, 14 January 2011 17:21 (thirteen years ago) link
I've got this folky musician friend who's been struggling with really bad depression for the last couple of years. Couldn't work, couldn't play, was just virtually housebound for that whole time. Finally about six months ago he started gigging again and I went a long and he played that. And that whole theme of the summer finally coming after the winter... It's been on my mind a lot since then.
― seminal fuiud (NickB), Friday, 14 January 2011 17:22 (thirteen years ago) link
the recent album by jo bartlett (of yellow moon band/it's jo and danny) is wonderful folky stuff, v highly recommended
― ‰(.*?)‰ (electricsound), Saturday, 15 January 2011 03:29 (thirteen years ago) link
electric eden won't be released here til May :(
― not everything is a campfire (ian), Saturday, 15 January 2011 03:38 (thirteen years ago) link
But you can get this now...
http://www.amazon.com/Seasons-They-Change-Story-Psychedelic/dp/1906002320
Looks great and there's definite crossover. Got my copy the other day.
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 15 January 2011 03:49 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm a couple of chapters into Electric Eden, need to hurry up if I'm ever to finish the thing.
― Dans la Bot (seandalai), Saturday, 15 January 2011 04:03 (thirteen years ago) link
My partner gave me Electric Eden for Christmas. Perhaps I'll start reading it next.
― mike t-diva, Saturday, 15 January 2011 19:17 (thirteen years ago) link
I saw that one, Ned, but I don't know how much I want to read some pseudoacademic text on Joanna Newsom's relationship to Jacqui McShee or whatever
― not everything is a campfire (ian), Saturday, 15 January 2011 19:42 (thirteen years ago) link
Actually it's not like that at all! What I've read so far has been a lot of good straightforward history and anecdotes, Leech knows her stuff but also how to write about it well.
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 15 January 2011 20:09 (thirteen years ago) link
Electric Eden was available from the Book Depositary for about 1/2 price from the time it was released last August. Free delivery worldwide if you don't want to wait until May.Largely a rewarding read, I didn't really like The wind in The willows take off bit though.
& I found Seasons They Change a little too listy. Kept changing to a new subject just as i was getting into reading about things. I think its an interesting read though.
Not sure what else to reccommend, certainly that stays on folk as opposed to including non-folk psych & prog. Seems most countries' take on prog tend to include large amounts of influence from local folk traditions. Maybe that's not so much UK/US noot sure though, certainly seems noticeable in continental European stuff.
― Stevolende, Saturday, 19 February 2011 23:29 (thirteen years ago) link
Essential Acid Folk -not all BritishI've just gone back to the original Bruton Town list after getting Shide & Acorn's Princess Of The Island, looking for more information on the band since i wasn't finding much elsewhere.This has led me to reading through a thread there talking about records people thought wwere essential in the genre. People were making lists of essential artists, this being back in 2004. Thought I'd stick a few of them up here and see what you thought
1)Comus: First UtteranceExtradition: HushFairport Convention: Liege & LiefGallery: The Wind that Shakes the BarleyGryphon: s/t: & Midnight MushrumpsJohn Renbourn: The Lady & the Unicorn, & The HermitJohn Renbourne: A Maid in BedlamJohn Renbourne: Sir John A lot ofLinda Perhacs: ParallelogramsMellow Candle: Swaddling SongsMidwinter: The Waters of Sweet SorrowMr Fox: Mr Fox, & The GipsyOberon: A Midsummer's Night DreamPaul Giovanni: The Wicker ManPentangle: Cruel SisterPentangle: Solomon's SealPerry Leopold: Christian LuciferRichard & Linda Thompson: I Want to See the Bright Lights TonightShide & Acorn: The Princess of the IslandShirley & Dolly Collins: Anthems in EdenShirley & Dolly Collins: Love, Death & the LadyShirley Collins: The Power of the True Love KnotShirley Collins & the Albion Band: No RosesSilly Sisters: s/tSpirogyra: Bells: Boots and ShamblesSteeleye Span: Below the SaltSteeleye Span: Parcel of RoguesSteve Ashley: Stroll On RevisitedStone Angel: s/tSweeney's Men: Sweeney's Men, & The Tracks of SweenyThe Albion Band: Rise Up Like the SunThe Albion Country Band: Battle of the FieldThe Albion Dance Band: The Prospect Before UsThe Watersons: Frost and FireThe Woods Band: s/tThese Trails: s/tTim Hart & Maddy Prior: Summer SolsticeTrees: The Garden of Jane DelawneyTrees : On the ShoreTudor Lodge: Tudor LodgeVashti Bunyan: Just Another Diamond Day
2)Anne Briggs 'Time Has Come'Forest - bothBert Jansch - Jack Orion & Rosemary LaneThird Ear Band - Fleance (just that song)Incredible String Band - take your pickClive's Own Band (COB) - both albumsLal & Mike Waterson - Bright PhobusTir Na Nog - firstDulcimer - firstMark FryPearls Before Swine - Balaklava & The Use Of AshesBread Love & Dreams - all threeDonovon - Gift From A Flower To A Garden (essential!!!!)BroselmachinePerry Leopold - bothEclectionFortheringayTony, Caro & John
3)Sun Also RisesNorthwindWestwindWooden HorseYoung TraditionA-AustrAgincourtBlue epitaphwater into wine bandHeronDecameronSpyrogyra
4)Carol Of Harvest,Witthuser & Westrupp,Emtidi,Langsyne,some Ougenweide,Emma MyldenbergerHölderlin's Traum
5)Sallyangie – Children of the SunJan Jukes De Grey – SorcererFuchsia – STThe Strawbs – From the WitchwoodThese Trails – STWater into Wine Band – Harvest TimeMandy Morton – Magic LadyTickawinda - Rosemary LaneTrader Horne - Morning WayJade - Fly On Strangewings
So that was mainly individual's personal choices & 4) was specifically German groups the writer would have chosen over Broselmaschine. I'm not sure if much else has emerged over the last 7 years. I don't think anybody mentioned Pat Kilroy or The New age (&the latter of these wasn't available until a couple years later anyway. Had remained unreleased until RD did it)
Stevo
― Stevolende, Saturday, 19 February 2011 23:30 (thirteen years ago) link
Sharron Kraus, yeah? didn't look below the fold but she seems to fit in here. She had a 2010 album "The Woody Nightshade" that I just listened to the other day.
― sleeve, Saturday, 19 February 2011 23:54 (thirteen years ago) link
Hey guys, I normally try not to spam ILM but you guys might want to know that Michael Chapman, UK folkie-rocker and guitar wizard, will be playing on my radio show tomorrow evening. 10-midnight (eastern u.s. time) on east village radio--www.eastvillageradio.com
wheeee
― one dis leads to another (ian), Monday, 18 April 2011 15:44 (twelve years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e8W7cRo12Y
― one dis leads to another (ian), Monday, 18 April 2011 16:16 (twelve years ago) link
don't think i know this guy! he sounds great.
― tylerw, Monday, 18 April 2011 17:49 (twelve years ago) link
Tyler, his album "Fully Qualified Survivor" was just reissued on LP (and CD??) by Light In The Attic; he's really fantastic.
― one dis leads to another (ian), Monday, 18 April 2011 19:45 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah, FQS is pretty essential. Pretty cool, Ian! I got to engineer a radio thing for a him a while back and he's still great.
― GLOWER METAL (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Tuesday, 19 April 2011 03:47 (twelve years ago) link
Looking forward to this!
― housedress? maxidress! (La Lechera), Tuesday, 19 April 2011 23:33 (twelve years ago) link
Hmm, very cool indeed.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 19 April 2011 23:40 (twelve years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an6EoevSSIs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT9SCKnp91A
some incredibly pretty Anne Briggs-style vocals and intertwining acoustic guitar parts on Folkal Point's self-titled album from 1971. it may not be authentically English (at least half of the songs were written but Americans), but I'm not bothered. it's odd that Joan Baez's original recording of "Sweet Sir Galahad" (written about her sister Mimi Fariña after the death of her husband Richard) for the most part leaves me cold, whereas Folkal Point's cover version makes me cry. her delivery of the line, "will I fail at every single thing I try?" just devastates.
― why delonge face? (unregistered), Sunday, 14 August 2011 23:49 (twelve years ago) link
("written by Americans," I mean)
― why delonge face? (unregistered), Sunday, 14 August 2011 23:50 (twelve years ago) link
finally picked up Electric Eden today! looking forward to digging in (and listening to a bunch of brit-folk along the way)!
― tylerw, Tuesday, 13 September 2011 19:38 (twelve years ago) link
I got that recently too but haven't really started it yet. Not sure why, because the few pages I read were very good.
― When I Stop Meming (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 13 September 2011 19:41 (twelve years ago) link
this book is so good! i will admit that i have lost steam as i exited the early 70s, but the first 300 pages are SO SO SO WONDERFUL. you will enjoy it. spotify will be your friend along the way.
― some lady (La Lechera), Tuesday, 13 September 2011 22:58 (twelve years ago) link
My favourite Brit-Folk song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuJSC0o_egI
― Yo wait a minute man, you better think about the world (dog latin), Wednesday, 14 September 2011 14:33 (twelve years ago) link
I couldn't get on with that album at all when I tried it. It felt like a 'Look Around You'-style spoof of a folk record.
― Geirge Hongriot (NickB), Wednesday, 14 September 2011 14:37 (twelve years ago) link
i think that's maybe that's why i like it (although when you put it that way, i can see why it irks you). never heard the full album - just the song on a comp.
― Yo wait a minute man, you better think about the world (dog latin), Wednesday, 14 September 2011 14:44 (twelve years ago) link
Recommend add "Handful of Earth" by Dick Gaughan to your searchlist - an album I have never once managed to listen to without crying (tho it helps if you're Scottish or Irish)
Finally got round to following up this recommendation, a mere 6.5 years on. Blimes it's a bit good innit? Haven't started crying yet, poss due to non Scottish / Irish status. Still, thanks.
― Tim, Friday, 3 August 2012 14:30 (eleven years ago) link
New database of collected archival material, project launched by Shirley Collins!
Welcome to the Take Six website, a searchable database of the manuscript archives of several of the UK's most prominent folksong collectors.it's cool if you like to look at moldy old things like thishttp://library.efdss.org/archives/images/blunt/BLU-01-668.jpg
I recommend looking at the tree view because it's more like browsing than searching blindly for the names of songs
― these albatrosses have no fear of man (La Lechera), Sunday, 12 August 2012 20:19 (eleven years ago) link
oops here is the websitehttp://library.efdss.org/archives/index.html
Haven't heard the first Fotheringay album, don't know how Fotheringay 2 compares, but I really like it as well as the Denny-Thompson etc Fairport, in its own. kinda folk-country way. Farm and lane and tavern music, without trying to pretend they're recording with coal oil. it's not just one where I have to doze til Denny cuts loose again, it's the whole band. So glad the surviving members came back and finished it, 40 years later or whatever. (oh and speaking of Denny-Thompson FC, the live odds and sods album Heyday is good too, despite sound quality)
― dow, Sunday, 12 August 2012 22:23 (eleven years ago) link
thanks for the link la lechera.
and dow, i think you should do yourself a favor and check out the first fotheringay record; it's great! many great songs and great playing.
― one dis leads to another (ian), Sunday, 12 August 2012 23:44 (eleven years ago) link
Every time someone on the radio talks about how Oscar Pistorius shot his girlfriend because he thought she was an intruder, all I can think about is Polly Vaughn, Jimmy, and the swan. Just wanted to put this somewhere, and it doesn't really belong anywhere I have to explain who Polly Vaughn and Jimmy are.
― and that sounds like a gong-concert (La Lechera), Wednesday, 20 February 2013 01:38 (eleven years ago) link
Or Molly and Johnny, depending on your preferred version I guess.
― and that sounds like a gong-concert (La Lechera), Wednesday, 20 February 2013 01:40 (eleven years ago) link
:)
― i guess i'd just rather listen to canned heat? (ian), Wednesday, 20 February 2013 02:05 (eleven years ago) link
La Lechera's springtime thread has got me singing Hal-an-tow under my breath again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhfNnurOxUY
― acid in the style of tenpole tudor (NickB), Friday, 1 March 2013 15:27 (eleven years ago) link
you should belt it loud and proud! jolly rumble-oh!
― and that sounds like a gong-concert (La Lechera), Friday, 1 March 2013 15:34 (eleven years ago) link
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kahaJGFYHDc/Tsbb58QEAVI/AAAAAAAABXA/mux_tPLNTqQ/s1600/advert_rumbelows.jpg
― .... the rest look like Dudley Sutton (Tom D.), Friday, 1 March 2013 16:49 (eleven years ago) link
it had never occurred to me that it could be rum below. that would have made more sense, but in my mind it was a jolly rumble-oh. is rumbelows like rent-a-center?
― and that sounds like a gong-concert (La Lechera), Friday, 1 March 2013 16:56 (eleven years ago) link
rumblelows is?was? a domestic electrical goods shop. always thought it was rumble-oh, i don't really not what a rumble is though in this context
― acid in the style of tenpole tudor (NickB), Friday, 1 March 2013 16:59 (eleven years ago) link
btw terry-thomas looks like the fat old fox I passed on my way home the other night
WOULD NOT TRUST HIM TO LOOK AFTER MY CHICKENS
it had never occurred to me that it could be rum below
I don't know if it is it just reminded me of Rumbelows, which I assume has gone the way of most high street chainstores. Hey it's folk music, so it's full of hey-nonny-nonsense words that happen to rhyme.
― .... the rest look like Dudley Sutton (Tom D.), Friday, 1 March 2013 17:03 (eleven years ago) link
does anyone know much about toni arthur's folk stuff? i know virtually nothing but looked her up at random on youtube and got this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH5YzId9xB4
― acid in the style of tenpole tudor (NickB), Friday, 1 March 2013 17:05 (eleven years ago) link
some otherworldy shit that imo
― acid in the style of tenpole tudor (NickB), Friday, 1 March 2013 17:07 (eleven years ago) link
Never heard it but it's supposed to be good stuff
― .... the rest look like Dudley Sutton (Tom D.), Friday, 1 March 2013 17:07 (eleven years ago) link
wasn't quite what I expected really given that i only know her from playaway - that one song there is fucking terrifying
― acid in the style of tenpole tudor (NickB), Friday, 1 March 2013 17:13 (eleven years ago) link
That's so weird I was singing Jolly Rumble-Oh to myself this morning on the way to work! Even though I was listening to a different record!
― multi instru mentat list (Jon Lewis), Friday, 1 March 2013 17:27 (eleven years ago) link
i looked up the dave and toni arthur stuff after reading electric eden. never been reissued? kinda surprising in this day and age.
― tylerw, Friday, 1 March 2013 17:30 (eleven years ago) link
Their Discogs page looks quite incomplete, but as far as I can make out, they had at least three albums:
Morning Stands on Tiptoe (Transatlantic, 1967)The Lark in the Morning (Topic, 1969)Hearken To The Witches Rune (Trailer, 1970)
Looks like the first two got reissued on one CD in the 90s, and the second one is available digitally from Topic (also it's on Spotify). Think it's the third one that's the hardest to find though (that title is just collectors' catnip right?) and that doesn't look like it's been reissued at all.
― acid in the style of tenpole tudor (NickB), Friday, 1 March 2013 17:50 (eleven years ago) link
Hearken To The Witches Rune is supposedly the most out-there musically, has Nic Jones playing in it and is on a label I've never flipping heard of: fat chance of ever finding that.
― acid in the style of tenpole tudor (NickB), Friday, 1 March 2013 17:53 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw9GVgAvCXU
^ good grief wtf is this
― acid in the style of tenpole tudor (NickB), Friday, 1 March 2013 18:00 (eleven years ago) link
^ Mystic Challenge with Paul Ross - Guest Toni Arthur
― acid in the style of tenpole tudor (NickB), Friday, 1 March 2013 18:01 (eleven years ago) link
Toni Arthur was about the first woman I ever fancied due to seeing her on things like Playschool and Playaway. I still haven't heard the 60s lps through though.
― Stevolende, Friday, 1 March 2013 23:52 (eleven years ago) link
The albums with her husband all sound pretty out-there but they are really just doing pretty traditional English folk-singing in that particular unaccompanied style. They do a number of supposed comedy numbers and even they sound pretty terrifying. One is about a football match and documents the rapidly escalating violence. Supposed to be amusing but it's actually quite unsettling.
― everything, Saturday, 2 March 2013 00:29 (eleven years ago) link
I used to have a copy of Harken To The Witches Rune, but I sold it at some point. Had a lot of tap dancing/clogging type stuff on it? I assume there's a proper name for that.
― i guess i'd just rather listen to canned heat? (ian), Saturday, 2 March 2013 00:42 (eleven years ago) link
oh MAN! really!? i was already interested but dang, that puts it over the edge. i love percussive dancing!
― and that sounds like a gong-concert (La Lechera), Saturday, 2 March 2013 03:27 (eleven years ago) link
there's a new official release of an ISB sounddesk from Fillmore East in '68 through Hux. Saw a review in one of the music rags this month. Not sure if it's the same set taht's been in circulaton before. there's one from a Fillmore that year that's definitely been on th etorrent sites.
Review said the sound was pretty good anyway.
― Stevolende, Saturday, 2 March 2013 12:38 (eleven years ago) link
wasting time today looking at this: http://archive.org/details/balladsweirdwond00choprichBallads weird and wonderful (1912)http://ia700307.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?zip=/35/items/balladsweirdwond00choprich/balladsweirdwond00choprich_jp2.zip&file=balladsweirdwond00choprich_jp2/balladsweirdwond00choprich_0011.jp2&scale=4&rotate=0
― tylerw, Monday, 1 July 2013 18:59 (ten years ago) link
Saw an announcement about this the other day:
http://www.vwml.org.uk/search/search-full-english
― Thelema & Louise (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 16:54 (ten years ago) link
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51kk-qkKy6L._SL500_AA300_.jpg
^ I picked this up for a pound yesterday, lots of thee old favourites on it (The Captain's Apprentice, Geordie etc). All a bit more formal than later interpretations as you'd expect, but it's all quite enjoyable nonetheless.
― Filk Hollins (NickB), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 17:08 (ten years ago) link
Vaughan Williams' "English Folk Song Suite" is the bomb, he had a real flair for orchestrating tunes without getting all pompous about it
― for many people a really special folder makes a huge difference (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 17:10 (ten years ago) link
On the other end of that spectrum, Delius' 'Brigg Fair' is sheer bliss to me.
― Thelema & Louise (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 17:17 (ten years ago) link
new book i wanna read --https://www.facebook.com/FolkInCornwall
― i guess i'd just rather listen to canned heat? (ian), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 17:20 (ten years ago) link
ok question -- has this band been covered itt? i turned on the radio to wash the dishes, heard a clip of them and was like whaaaaa how come no one has ever told me about this or if they did, why did i not listen?! anyway their sound is so cool, i love it.
The English trio S.O.S. — saxophonists John Surman, Mike Osborne and Alan Skidmore — was formed in 1973, and made only one LP for the Ogun label a couple years later. They didn't last long, but they were the first of many horn choirs born in the '70s and '80s, mostly saxophone quartets. S.O.S.'s trio voicings sometimes eerily anticipate the World Saxophone Quartet that came along a bit later.
The trio was tight and maneuverable, changing direction as one like birds in flight. That precision stemmed from extensive rehearsing, close listening on the bandstand and playing a little Bach. S.O.S. might sound like more than three players by moving the voices around, even when two reeds are riffing behind the other.
Tenor player Alan Skidmore is a Londoner, the son of a jazz saxophonist, while altoist Mike Osborne and multi-instrumentalist John Surman grew up closer to the countryside. There was always a strong whiff of agrarian roots and the English folk revival about S.O.S. They might literally break into an Irish jig. Their theme "Country Dance" was perfect for a romp around the maypole. A lot of '60s and '70s English jazz has that bagpipey energy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhrP9OT7FU4
― no fomo (La Lechera), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 14:59 (ten years ago) link
Heard of them but never associated them with folk music!
― Tommy McTommy (Tom D.), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 15:01 (ten years ago) link
they are so good! i love what i've heard so far -- there's definitely a droney folk quality in there, like david munrow crumhorn/EMC/the voice of jantina noorman but then they totally flip out with improvisational stuff too. i love them!
http://www.npr.org/2013/08/20/198076754/looking-for-the-next-one-reveals-an-underappreciated-sax-trio
yup i learned this from npr
― no fomo (La Lechera), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 15:04 (ten years ago) link
(xp)Never heard of them before today when I noticed the thing on NPR about them before coming to this thread.
― The O RLY of Everything (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 15:05 (ten years ago) link
spooky
when i turned on the radio and heard them i thought there was something wrong with the radio, it was awesome
― no fomo (La Lechera), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 15:13 (ten years ago) link
also can someone please elaborate on this within the context of british folk? They didn't last long, but they were the first of many horn choirs born in the '70s and '80s, mostly saxophone quartets. S.O.S.'s trio voicings sometimes eerily anticipate the World Saxophone Quartet that came along a bit later.
― no fomo (La Lechera), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 15:15 (ten years ago) link
Not a lot of chatter on this thread about the Albion Band, which is a shame as Rise Up Like The Sun is top 5 Brit electric folk for me. The interesting thing about that album is that there wasn't as much Ashley Hutchings on it as on other Albions records, it was more down to John Tams who I see hasn't been mentioned once here but is imo a totally unsung hero of Brit folk. After that album he went on to form Home Service which really took up where Rise Up left off, their Alright Jack album is stunning. They spent a lot of time doing stage work like The Mysteries at the National Theatre in the 80s and are thankfully now on the comeback trail.
― my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 15:17 (ten years ago) link
I have a late period robin Williamson album on ECM called skirting the river road of which John surman is a big component. That's been my only exposure to him (amazing record) but I think he has also done some mystic-improv John Dowland stuff for ECM too?
― Spot Lange (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 16:49 (ten years ago) link
i have that robin williamson album too! i could never really connect with it but maybe that's because i wasn't trying very hard.
― no fomo (La Lechera), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 17:16 (ten years ago) link
they were the first of many horn choirs born in the '70s and '80s,
First I've heard!
― Tommy McTommy (Tom D.), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 17:18 (ten years ago) link
... in the context of folk that is
i think a committee should be formed to investigate this mattermany horn choirs sounds v interesting
― no fomo (La Lechera), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 17:23 (ten years ago) link
Xxp I connect with that record best by just having it on and doing other stuff tbh. It's more of a mood piece than a moment by moment ride like isb.
― Spot Lange (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 17:30 (ten years ago) link
surman has def made a number of recs for ecm and others that incorporate 'british' choral/classical music of varying traditions, inc. folk - but i have never found them v. compelling, i'm afraid, despite jack dejohnette being involved w/ some of them.
rightly or wrongly i think of alan skidmore as a bit of a brit journeyman - a player, a pro, cld be wild, but fundamentally a jazz musician, def not a folkie per se
the mike osborne stuff i know best is his pretty free/fiery post-ornette alto jazz stuff - his debut rec Outback is a scorcher
marcello cld tell us all a lot more, i'm sure
― Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 21 August 2013 19:39 (ten years ago) link
titles? recommendations for the most formal and folky?
― no fomo (La Lechera), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 21:19 (ten years ago) link
L L, i wld just be copying titles from his wiki entry - i used to work in a jazz rec shop and prob heard most of his ecm titles at some point or other, as i said they didn't make a huge impression
in fact the surman/ecm appearance i like best is thimar, by the Tunisian oud player anouar brahem - a different kind of folk music
― Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 21 August 2013 21:38 (ten years ago) link
That oud player is great, gotta check that out.
― The O RLY of Everything (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 21:45 (ten years ago) link
oh oki'll look around
― no fomo (La Lechera), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 21:49 (ten years ago) link
s.o.s. band seems more like terry riley than folk
albion band rules
just picked up an old copy of steve ashley's stroll on, highly recommended to albion band fans
but don't take it from me, the album cover sells it!
<IMG SRC="http://www.recordsale.de/cdpix/s/steve_ashley-stroll_on.jpg">
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 22:32 (ten years ago) link
http://www.recordsale.de/cdpix/s/steve_ashley-stroll_on.jpg
i guess i'm talking about stuff like this that (imo) straddles the line between formal classical performance/early music and folk melodies? like anthems in eden. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRUkWm1jcSU
― no fomo (La Lechera), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 22:34 (ten years ago) link
xp that is a super cool album cover
― no fomo (La Lechera), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 22:36 (ten years ago) link
La Lachera, you might like this, though it has more folk appeal in feel than in any more definable connection maybe (though Dave's bass intro does seem to briefly quote the song I know as "Birmingham Sunday"; seems like Richard Farina might've set it to an older tune). From 1973 the title track of Conference of the Birds (most of the rest of the album is pretty freaky, though I learned to love it, for sure). A string band I used to know in the 70s covered this, in between Grisman and some Irish trad. Anyway: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2uoLafv5c0
― dow, Wednesday, 21 August 2013 22:52 (ten years ago) link
1965 The Watersons - Frost & Fire1966 Incredible String Band - s/t1969 Ralph McTell - My Side of Your Window1969 Al Stewart - Love Chronicles1970 Robin & Barry Dransfield - The Rout of the Blues1970 Mr Fox - s/t1971 Dave Burland - A Dalesman's Litany1971 Steeleye Span - Please To See The King1971 Robin & Barry Dransfield - Lord of All I Behold1972 Dick Gaughan - No More Forever1974 Jack the Lad - The Old Straight Track1975 The Watersons - For Pence and Spicy Ale1976 Five Hand Reel - s/t1977 Peter Bellamy - The Transports1978 Paul Brady - Welcome Here Kind Stranger1979 Cilla Fisher and Artie Trezise - Cilla & Artie1980 Nic Jones - Penguin Eggs1981 Dick Gaughan - Handful of Earth1983 Andy M. Stewart - By The Hush
^ A list of records that people on the internet claim were once the Melody Maker Folk Album of The Year
― i'll be your mraz (NickB), Monday, 16 September 2013 12:21 (ten years ago) link
(obviously they can't all be right unless this wasn't an award as such, but just a phrase used in reviews)
― i'll be your mraz (NickB), Monday, 16 September 2013 12:23 (ten years ago) link
Don't know all of those but can't argue with the ones I do know, not many people seem to know about "No More Forever" but it's probably my favourite Dick Gaughan album.
― Tommy McTommy (Tom D.), Monday, 16 September 2013 12:54 (ten years ago) link
I don't know that one. Sure is a grim and grimey picture on the cover.
― i'll be your mraz (NickB), Monday, 16 September 2013 13:15 (ten years ago) link
The only one I know of these is Al Stewart but it's a great album.
― my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Monday, 16 September 2013 13:24 (ten years ago) link
the Nic Jones is classic but all of Nic Jones's are classic imo
― i'm not racist, i just dislike rap (Noodle Vague), Monday, 16 September 2013 13:25 (ten years ago) link
wish all of the Nic Jones albs were still in print, not just Penguin Eggs
― Ward Fowler, Monday, 16 September 2013 13:35 (ten years ago) link
i've got the s/t on mp3 and a live one ripped from a library copy, it's ridiculous he's not more available
― i'm not racist, i just dislike rap (Noodle Vague), Monday, 16 September 2013 13:37 (ten years ago) link
Was listening to Penguin Eggs this morning actually, excellent record. Nothing fancy about it really, just boom - great singing, great guitar playing.
― i'll be your mraz (NickB), Monday, 16 September 2013 13:42 (ten years ago) link
That Robin and Barry Dransfield album is great. I need to track down a copy, haven't heard it in years. (My parents have it, played it a lot when I was growing up.)
― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Monday, 16 September 2013 13:43 (ten years ago) link
Rout of the Blues, I mean -- I'm not sure I've heard the other one.
― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Monday, 16 September 2013 13:44 (ten years ago) link
xxp that sums up his appeal to me i think, his voice especially is beautiful and less mannered than a lot of straight folk peoples'
― i'm not racist, i just dislike rap (Noodle Vague), Monday, 16 September 2013 13:45 (ten years ago) link
Where's Shirley?
― no fomo (La Lechera), Monday, 16 September 2013 13:52 (ten years ago) link
Bright Phoebus seems like a glaring omission here
― i'm not racist, i just dislike rap (Noodle Vague), Monday, 16 September 2013 13:54 (ten years ago) link
There's no Shirley but Dolly arranged all the music on the Peter Bellamy album on that list.
― i'll be your mraz (NickB), Monday, 16 September 2013 13:57 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDCj-5uBXQI
^ this is a song off it with Norma Waterson singing, it's lovely
― i'll be your mraz (NickB), Monday, 16 September 2013 13:58 (ten years ago) link
DID she? I'll have to look that up!! Her arrangements are the best.
― no fomo (La Lechera), Monday, 16 September 2013 14:00 (ten years ago) link
The Transports was a folk-opera written by Peter Bellamy and released on Free Reed Records in 1977. It is often cited as Bellamy's greatest achievement. It featured many artists from the 1970s English folk revival, including The Watersons, Martin Carthy, Nic Jones, A. L. Lloyd, June Tabor, Cyril Tawney and Dave Swarbrick. The orchestral arrangements were by Dolly Collins.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transports
― i'll be your mraz (NickB), Monday, 16 September 2013 14:05 (ten years ago) link
I've got that, some, uhhhhhhhhh, challenging vocals on that one.
Sure is a grim and grimey picture on the cover.
LOL, yeah, really selling it
― Tommy McTommy (Tom D.), Monday, 16 September 2013 14:50 (ten years ago) link
Just seen that this is on BBC4 tonight -> The Enigma of Nic Jones: Return of Britain's Lost Folk Hero
― i'll be your mraz (NickB), Friday, 27 September 2013 18:23 (ten years ago) link
yeah was gonna flag that. assume it's new?
― how do i shot cwmbran? (Noodle Vague), Friday, 27 September 2013 18:48 (ten years ago) link
cool, i've watched a clip of it, but didn't know if it was going to be shown or had even been completed. http://vimeo.com/71491414
― tylerw, Friday, 27 September 2013 18:51 (ten years ago) link
first time it's aired afaik
― i'll be your mraz (NickB), Friday, 27 September 2013 19:40 (ten years ago) link
Think I read something on the programme a while back so assumed it must have been a repeat. Can't think when I read it or where though. Helpful. Did either Mojo or Uncut run something on him a while back with something on it? Or failing that the Observer?
― Stevolende, Friday, 27 September 2013 22:08 (ten years ago) link
gotta say i'm not mad nuts about programmes so heavily dependent on talking heads, but where so little archive footage exists it was always going to be the case here. that said, it was really good seeing nic soldiering on with that aura of peace and jolliness about him, though he does seem scarily frail for someone in their mid 60s; techy guitar bits were interesting, though i'm sure they'd mean more to tyler than they did to me; martin carthy was as good value as ever. that bit about them having to retrieve nic's teeth from his lungs after the car crash was plain O_O.
― i'll be your mraz (NickB), Friday, 27 September 2013 23:09 (ten years ago) link
feel like a terrible curmudgeon not being 100% yay! about it though tbh
― i'll be your mraz (NickB), Friday, 27 September 2013 23:22 (ten years ago) link
i think that's ok, its shortcomings - bits i saw whilst attending to kids, will catch up on iPlayer when i've got some alone time - are really the result of a career cut cruelly short
― how do i shot cwmbran? (Noodle Vague), Friday, 27 September 2013 23:25 (ten years ago) link
was pretty good i thought
made me want to pick up penguin eggs
not a sentence i thought i'd ever say
― zvookster, Saturday, 28 September 2013 00:26 (ten years ago) link
in the absence of footage from the era
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2PxsHBv0ps
so good
― how do i shot cwmbran? (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 28 September 2013 00:31 (ten years ago) link
The unavailability of Nic Jones, Bright Phoebus and quite a few others seems to be down to the late Dave Bulmer who owned the copyright on them and for reasons best known to himself never released them properly. Doesn't seem to have been any discussion on this thread about this situation. More here:
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/oct/10/bright-phoebus-waterson-toured-hawley-cocker-album
― my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Friday, 11 October 2013 08:27 (ten years ago) link
a brief nod to this story from mike a couple of years ago
I saw Martin Carthy and Dave Swarbrick last week. First set a bit doddery, second set AMAZING. My partner asked Carthy about the "lost" 1972 Lal & Mike Waterson album Bright Phoebus, which also features Carthy, Maddy Prior, Tim Hart & Norma Waterson - there was a BBC Radio 4 doc about it the other week. Carthy told him that the reissue rights had been acquired by a "bastard", from whom no artist royalties flow. His advice: grab a free copy. So we did:
http://witchseason.blogspot.com/2007/06/cheap-red-wine-in-my-drunken-brain.html
It's a superb record.
― mike t-diva, Tuesday, 13 September 2011 11:18 (2 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― I like to tackle hard and am crazy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 11 October 2013 12:18 (ten years ago) link
I have a copy of that lp that was doing the rounds about 10 years ago. I think it's on cdr but has an official looking sleeve. Not looked at it recently but did burn it to hard drive a few months ago so that i could listen to it through my computer. has some great stuff on it definitely.
― Stevolende, Friday, 11 October 2013 12:35 (ten years ago) link
That Robin and Barry Dransfield album is great.
I love the title track, I forget what I thought when I finally heard the whole album. (No I don't listen to much of this stuff, but I have listened to more in the past.)
― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 12 October 2013 03:40 (ten years ago) link
rout of the blues <3
― velko, Saturday, 12 October 2013 03:44 (ten years ago) link
Saw 'Bright Phoebus Revisited' last night at the Barb. It was v. uneven but there was more than enough mesmerizing brilliance on show to make up for the dud moments. I wish I could afford to see them again in Bristol at the end of the tour, when they will nail it.
― one over two first letter human (Zora), Saturday, 12 October 2013 07:43 (ten years ago) link
Have been indulging in some epic dithering about whether to go and see that tour or not. Don't think we get Jarvis Cocker here, and much as I like him as a character and a performer, I could probably do without his presence overshadowing the songs. How was his turn?
― gotta lol geir (NickB), Saturday, 12 October 2013 09:27 (ten years ago) link
He did two proper songs (The Scarecrow and The Beast), and a kind of cameo as the Magical Man. He seemed to change his mind about where to pitch The Scarecrow after the first verse, so it went from spooky and deep, but only marginally tuneful, to much lighter and more musical but without the weird edge - I'd be interested to see which he goes with next time. The Beast was really good, really drew you in. It's hard to convey the contrast between Cocker and the pro folk singers - it's not like they can't do expressive, intimate or scary/vulnerable, because by damn they can. But there's something about Jarvis that sets him apart.
So, I thought he added something v.v. interesting without overshadowing anything, tho putting the poor chap in a chorus line for the big closing numbers was an odd thing to do. The awkwardness and intensity that makes him so compelling when he's up there on his own becomes discomfiting when his voice is inaudible and he's standing in a row with a load of Waterson/Carthys. He looked like a beardy alien. <3
― one over two first letter human (Zora), Saturday, 12 October 2013 09:58 (ten years ago) link
i fell out of respect with J Cocker a long time ago and am kinda sad that he has any presence in this thing amongst some of my fave writers and performers so i'm afraid i'm out
― I like to tackle hard and am crazy (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 12 October 2013 10:04 (ten years ago) link
nose/face
he's not on stage for most of it and you will miss out on astonishing harmonies from Eliza, Marry and Kima, pshaw
― one over two first letter human (Zora), Saturday, 12 October 2013 10:11 (ten years ago) link
Looks like my copy of Bright Phoebus came out on a label called Trailer sometime around 2000. Seemed to be an official release a t the time but the company was pretty small so was doing cdrs instead of actual cds. I think that was somewhat common at the time among labels doing small pressings, is it still? Don't think there was as much digital d/ld presence at the time, or if there was it seemed to be strictly mp3.
Got the lp lined up to play next after a '75 Rahsaan Roland Kirk live set.
― Stevolende, Saturday, 12 October 2013 12:32 (ten years ago) link
http://www.standard.co.uk/goingout/music/bright-phoebus-revisited-barbican--music-review-8878576.html
"Jarvis Cocker of novelty band Pulp" ??
― mahb, Tuesday, 15 October 2013 12:25 (ten years ago) link
LOL
― Tommy McTommy (Tom D.), Tuesday, 15 October 2013 12:29 (ten years ago) link
Went and saw the Bright Phoebus thing last night, have never seen any of the Waterson/Carthy tribe live before so it was great to see those people. Eliza Carthy especially did a great job, I think maybe the whole performance would have struggled without her - definitely the person who seemed to be having the most fun on stage and her voice is terrific. Norma too actually, but obviously she's getting on so was a bit less active. No Jarvis here, so it was a slightly creepy young guy called John Smith who sang The Scarecrow, but he did exactly the same gruff voice in the first and last verses that Zora described, gave it a slight Playaway/Worzel Gummidge let's-pretend-to-be-scarecrows vibe. Kind of a shame, it's my favourite song on the album - lyrically it's a pretty heavy meditation on mortality and generational succession, but it's also the difference in delivery between that and the likes of Rubber Band and Magical Man that make it hit so hard, like a raw winter wind tearing through to your bones. Richard Hawley turned Danny Rose into a bit of a Ringo number, but also told a good story - he was wondering about the mystical side of some of Lal's songs, so over a cup of tea one day he asked Norma whether Lal had ever taken any magic mushrooms. The reply was 'no, but she did eat a lot of pickled onions'. Also bloody hell, aside from her dad's red hair does Kamila Thompson (Dickie & Linda's daughter) look like her mother or what?
― gotta lol geir (NickB), Wednesday, 16 October 2013 09:32 (ten years ago) link
worth checking out if you're into this stuff! http://landless.bandcamp.com/
― tylerw, Tuesday, 19 August 2014 21:52 (nine years ago) link
...and likewise, the new Lutine album is great. Quite sparse sounding but very soft and delicate. Love this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9bhdCftGNA
― john wahey (NickB), Tuesday, 30 September 2014 15:05 (nine years ago) link
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/11705184.Sussex_Folk_legend_commemorated_in_with_ale_created_by_Harveys_Brewery_in_his_name/
― Ottbot jr (NickB), Tuesday, 6 January 2015 17:59 (nine years ago) link
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10922837_888522107846526_7811329269237289520_n.jpg?oh=5d74d3e4dbdff0b1cf9b90385eae8fe4&oe=552F1DA3&__gda__=1433372187_74fb11aebbd6d053600006f528577da3
― you've got no fans you've got no ground (anagram), Tuesday, 6 January 2015 19:10 (nine years ago) link
some great names in that lineup. didn't know oak had reformed!
― no lime tangier, Wednesday, 7 January 2015 06:15 (nine years ago) link
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/jan/25/ten-thousand-times-adieu-review-bob-copper-cecil-sharp-house-folk
a shirley collins/linda thompson duet of a blind willie johnson song?!
― no lime tangier, Monday, 26 January 2015 12:24 (nine years ago) link
blimey
― why you gotta be so rmde (NickB), Monday, 26 January 2015 13:08 (nine years ago) link
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/birdnestsoup/shirleyamplinda.jpg
― why you gotta be so rmde (NickB), Monday, 26 January 2015 14:07 (nine years ago) link
more info on the shirley collins movie facebook page btw, which was where that photo is from
― why you gotta be so rmde (NickB), Monday, 26 January 2015 14:10 (nine years ago) link
From Rolling Reissues 2015:
Bridget St John has a 4cd set of her 3 Dandelion lps & some BBC sessions released in February. I know there were individual releases of the lps about a decade back. I'm not sure if these are those masters or not. The set is listed on the Cherry Red site at £13.95 and may be cheaper elsewhere.Her voice has been likened to Nico and she mined a similar individualistic semiacoustic quasi-folk area to people like Nick Drake, John Martyn, Duncan Browne, Shelagh McDonald etc.
― Stevolende, Sunday, January 25, 2015 3:10 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― dow, Monday, 26 January 2015 14:16 (nine years ago) link
only know the 1st st. john album which i seem to recall features john martyn's slide playing on a couple of tracks (long time since i last played it)
xpost: nice photo and according to the facebook page, that's the very excellent john kirkpatrick way at the end there!
― no lime tangier, Monday, 26 January 2015 14:36 (nine years ago) link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06mfqc8
Maddy Prior has been the lead singer of Steeleye Span since they first began in 1969. Since then the band has had dozens of members, some have left for good, some have left and re-joined, Maddy herself, who is still with Steeleye, describes it as a 'bus' with people jumping on and off.
In the first of two programmes Maddy and her daughter Rose Kemp discuss how music has taken them in different directions.
Whereas Maddy is at the very heart of the folk and traditional music establishment, Rose is a major artist in the doom and drone metal scene, the slower heavier take on heavy metal. Together Maddy and Rose discuss their music and how it was they have followed such different musical paths.
As part of this two part series Rose and Maddy have composed and recorded brand new, original songs alongside artists, especially selected by the other.
Rose has linked up with Bellowhead front man John Boden to record a song she has written to explore the difficult subject of rape in marriage while Maddy has been paired with Dylan Carlson, part of the Seattle music scene and head of the metal band Earth. Long standing fans of Maddy's and Steeleye will definitely be surprised at the way she uses her famous voice to fit the guitars of Carlson's arrangement.
Along the way, Rose and Maddy come together to discuss the world of folk and metal music, feminism and misogyny in the folk world, spirituality, and how they view the world and their relationship through their entirely different musical styles.
― Sheriff U. Agri (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 28 October 2015 10:56 (eight years ago) link
this sounds really cool although whoever wrote ^that up has either never heard Earth or Rose Kemp's music, or is wilfully exaggerating the degree of contrast to make it seem more striking
― Sheriff U. Agri (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 28 October 2015 10:58 (eight years ago) link
Interesting, Maddy is my favourite UK female folk singer (and, yes, that includes Sandy Denny and Shirley Collins).
― Riga Tony (Tom D.), Wednesday, 28 October 2015 10:59 (eight years ago) link
whoa that is really cool, although yeah, they're all folk artists really, even ol' dylan
thought rose kemp had retired! her final album was flat-out incredible
― twunty fifteen (imago), Wednesday, 28 October 2015 11:11 (eight years ago) link
Anybody hear that show? Was it good?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 8 December 2015 01:35 (eight years ago) link
Bright Phoebus reissue on the way:
http://www.dominorecordco.com/uk/news/31-05-17/bright-phoebus-euro--songs-by-lal-and-mike-waterson-remastered-and-reissued-by-domino/
― heaven parker (anagram), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 14:49 (six years ago) link
damnnnn, excited for that. such an amazing record (and so hard to come by!). glad it is finally getting the treatment it deserves.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 14:52 (six years ago) link
My copy of Bright Phoebus arrived today. Haven't had a chance to listen yet, looks good, but that's pretty early, right? I thought it was supposed to be early August...
― Eallach mhór an duine leisg (dowd), Thursday, 13 July 2017 17:21 (six years ago) link
i'm enjoying the newest album from this Sharron Kraus project https://rusalnaia.bandcamp.com/album/time-takes-away
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 14 July 2017 15:31 (six years ago) link
xp yeah, been seeing that people are getting that Phoebus reissue! jealous ... going off to order it now.
― tylerw, Friday, 14 July 2017 15:35 (six years ago) link
Strange stuff. Eliza Carthy just tweeted that the Bright Phoebus copyright holders (who haven't been paying any royalties, as I understand it) took Domino to court over the reissue and won, the Domino reissue being essentially unauthorised. The album has now disappeared from the Domino website.
― the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Saturday, 1 December 2018 11:29 (five years ago) link
Not good from Domino.
― Monica Kindle (Tom D.), Saturday, 1 December 2018 11:30 (five years ago) link
Jeepers, I actually know the copyright holder IRL, we drink in the same bars. He's inherited the rights from his late dad. I knew he was massively pissed off about the Domino reissue, but the release that his dad was flogging was a vinyl rip to CD - he never had the master tape, whereas Domino did get hold of it. I also remember Martin Carthy advising me to download a bootleg copy from an MP3 blog instead of buying the vinyl rip CD, as none of the musicians got royalties from it.
― mike t-diva, Saturday, 1 December 2018 11:43 (five years ago) link
Damn that super sucks. Such a great album and I’d never even heard of it til this year.
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Saturday, 1 December 2018 17:25 (five years ago) link
so weird! domino did an amazing job w/ the reissue — totally definitive ... wonder how they would've gone along that far w/o actually getting the rights. i assume they were paying royalties to the performers?
― tylerw, Saturday, 1 December 2018 18:01 (five years ago) link
Glad I saw this bump, just ordered a copy of the vinyl
― The Poppy Bush AutoZone (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 1 December 2018 18:34 (five years ago) link
I got a copy of the version from about 2010. So had it on the backburner.wasn't sure how much better the new version was.
― Stevolende, Saturday, 1 December 2018 19:55 (five years ago) link
dammit, I've had the Domino reissue in my Amazon cart since it came out but never got it, what was the rush? hahaha
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Saturday, 1 December 2018 20:00 (five years ago) link
argh fuck i've been meaning to buy this for ages too
― my name is leee john, for we are many (NickB), Saturday, 1 December 2018 20:08 (five years ago) link
I bought the 2CD Domino set because it came with an extra disc of demos/outtakes etc, which again seemed to point to the legitimacy of the package. This brilliant record seems to be a bit cursed :-(
― Ward Fowler, Saturday, 1 December 2018 20:35 (five years ago) link
Reminds me of similar problems with records on CD Presents or SST where the label legally owns the records but don't pay royalties or allow anyone to reissue them
― Colonel Poo, Saturday, 1 December 2018 20:57 (five years ago) link
Fantastic record and the demos disc is/ was excellent. Crazy that it was all unauthorized!
― An Uphill Battle For Legumes (Capitaine Jay Vee), Saturday, 1 December 2018 20:58 (five years ago) link
if the musicians involved weren't getting paid anyway I don't feel too bad about buying the Domino reissue which I, uh, just did
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Saturday, 1 December 2018 21:01 (five years ago) link
But isn't the story that the Domino reissue was done with the master tapes - how did they get them?
― kraudive, Saturday, 1 December 2018 21:28 (five years ago) link
Oliver Knight is a sound engineer and Lal Waterson's son... perhaps he had them?
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Saturday, 1 December 2018 21:29 (five years ago) link
This article on the proceeding doesn't do much clarify the dispute ("Domino was found to have no prospect of a defence, and the matter was summarily decided":
https://www.harrogateadvertiser.co.uk/whats-on/harrogate-record-label-wins-fight-against-famous-company-1-9471219
Confusingly, Financial Times at the time of the reissue last year:
Just 2,000 copies were manufactured in 1972, half of them unplayable because the hole was pressed off-centre. With lukewarm support from fans, the album went out of print. Financial problems forced Leader to sell his record labels. The new owner, Highway, sold the rights to a third company, Celtic Music, which focused on Leader’s recordings of Irish traditional music. Bright Phoebus remained unreleased.But its reputation grew. In 2013 the Bright Phoebus Revisited Tour, featuring a band that included Marry, Carthy and Hawley with Jarvis Cocker, along with a BBC Radio 4 documentary, provided clear evidence of strong interest in the album. “It was ahead of its time,” says Marry. With demand for its release from a growing number of fervent fans unswayed by arcane arguments about folk music purity, Domino Records has bought the rights and remastered it. “It feels bloody great,” says Marry.
But its reputation grew. In 2013 the Bright Phoebus Revisited Tour, featuring a band that included Marry, Carthy and Hawley with Jarvis Cocker, along with a BBC Radio 4 documentary, provided clear evidence of strong interest in the album. “It was ahead of its time,” says Marry. With demand for its release from a growing number of fervent fans unswayed by arcane arguments about folk music purity, Domino Records has bought the rights and remastered it. “It feels bloody great,” says Marry.
Eliza Carthy is retweeting folks encouraging people to buy the Domino release and calling it a "tragedy in performing art." It seems possible that ownership of the copyright was disputed between Celtic Music (the prevailing party here) and the Watersons' heirs (who Domino "bought the rights from," got the masters and were paying royalties to?).
In any case, a lovely record. Sad to have the copyright holder, with no connection to the artists, or even the original label, keep it from listeners (or keep a crap version in circ).
― by the light of the burning Citroën, Saturday, 1 December 2018 21:30 (five years ago) link
Yeah Domino don't seem like the bad guys here
― Colonel Poo, Saturday, 1 December 2018 21:35 (five years ago) link
I'm not sure I believe that only 2000 copies were ever printed story because, when I lived in Glasgow, I had a copy and at least two other people I knew also had copies - and it didn't cost an arm and a leg either.
― Monica Kindle (Tom D.), Saturday, 1 December 2018 21:38 (five years ago) link
... pressed, not feckin' printed!
― Monica Kindle (Tom D.), Saturday, 1 December 2018 21:39 (five years ago) link
original pressing was 2k with 1k viable, it did have at least two other vinyl pressings according to Discogs
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Saturday, 1 December 2018 21:44 (five years ago) link
i went to see one of the bright phoebus revisited concerts - eliza carthy, martin carthy, norma waterson, marry waterson (lal's daughter) plus richard hawley and some other people. really good, though martin c. was the only person there who actually played on the original record iirc
― my name is leee john, for we are many (NickB), Saturday, 1 December 2018 21:53 (five years ago) link
That explains it! I wondered why it was so cheap!
― Monica Kindle (Tom D.), Saturday, 1 December 2018 22:14 (five years ago) link
... other than the fact that no-one was interested it in those days.
― Monica Kindle (Tom D.), Saturday, 1 December 2018 22:15 (five years ago) link
I bought it when it was first (re)released on vinyl. And I love it. It bugs me if they get nothing from it, of course.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Sunday, 2 December 2018 00:14 (five years ago) link
Some of this album is so very Hull it adds an extra layer of intimacy and relevance for me
― Bound 4 da Remoan (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 2 December 2018 00:19 (five years ago) link
It could really do without Rubber Band, Magical Man, and Shady Lady - but the rest is so good (including the early stuff on the second record.)
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Sunday, 2 December 2018 00:25 (five years ago) link
Ah they're part of the mix of the album. "Shady Lady" I really enjoy some days, obv those are three are probably nobody's favourites
― Bound 4 da Remoan (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 2 December 2018 00:29 (five years ago) link
They certainly give off a "Watersons gig in a lively pub" vibe
― Bound 4 da Remoan (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 2 December 2018 00:31 (five years ago) link
Loving Frost and Fire lately
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Sunday, 2 December 2018 00:49 (five years ago) link
Frost and Fire is fab. I like A Yorkshire Garland even more. Watersons is great winter music imo.
― Bound 4 da Remoan (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 2 December 2018 00:56 (five years ago) link
love 'frost and fire', never got round to 'a yorkshire garland'. noodle vague will know this but this is crucial, beautiful watersons viewing:
https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-travelling-for-a-living-1966-online
― my name is leee john, for we are many (NickB), Sunday, 2 December 2018 08:10 (five years ago) link
twenty minutes into watching it again and even for a music documentary, there's so much booze and fags in that
― my name is leee john, for we are many (NickB), Sunday, 2 December 2018 08:36 (five years ago) link
other thing i loved was that norma seems to go on tour with a platypus nailed to a plank
― my name is leee john, for we are many (NickB), Sunday, 2 December 2018 08:42 (five years ago) link
Haven't seen the whole doc before! Only clips on YouTube.
― Bound 4 da Remoan (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 2 December 2018 11:31 (five years ago) link
ah well enjoy! rubber band haterz might feel differently after seeing it btw, mike seems like a sweet guy and that daftness is part and parcel of his charm
― my name is leee john, for we are many (NickB), Sunday, 2 December 2018 11:47 (five years ago) link
it’s the other guy with his hair and his porn and his beatles records you need to worry about
― my name is leee john, for we are many (NickB), Sunday, 2 December 2018 11:48 (five years ago) link
i’d never heard of bright phoebus despite yorkshire garland and frost and fire being long time favourites. i’ve listened to it now thanks to this thread and it’s wonderful. i have a high level of tolerance for elastic band/magical man/shady lady - they’re cornball but the sound of having fun and sit well amongst the rawness of the other songs, not just in the aesthetics of the lp but as a picture of life. the beauty of this album is elsewhere but as slightly embarrassing, unbuckled, silly fun it’s enjoyable.
― Fizzles, Sunday, 2 December 2018 19:11 (five years ago) link
*rubber band
much prefer it to the latter day tweeness of eg nu-coppers - the melding of fun and foul doesn’t work for me. bob and ron incontrovertible in their tart-voiced sussex harmonies.
― Fizzles, Sunday, 2 December 2018 19:14 (five years ago) link
Folkers are fond of their whimsy, even Martin Carthy does silly numbers, Dick Gaughan doesn't though. I saw a Mike Waterson solo (unaccompanied) concert once and one of the highlights of his set was a song called (something like) "Them Geese Is Ducks".
― Monica Kindle (Tom D.), Sunday, 2 December 2018 19:15 (five years ago) link
THE IRON ROAD IS A HARD ROAD #dickgaughanwhimsy
― Fizzles, Sunday, 2 December 2018 19:32 (five years ago) link
He's funny, Dick Gaughan, all of these guys are entertainers, but he doesn't do whimsical, no sirree.
― Monica Kindle (Tom D.), Sunday, 2 December 2018 19:33 (five years ago) link
the image of dick gaughan’s face at encountering some unnecessary whimsy is making me laugh on the sofa. but yes, whimsy def a part of english folk - feels like it’s about having a performing repertoire. but also the absurd logic is never far even from the grim songs
― Fizzles, Sunday, 2 December 2018 19:44 (five years ago) link
It's a part of folk music all over the world, not just England.
― Monica Kindle (Tom D.), Sunday, 2 December 2018 20:34 (five years ago) link
People are silly.
people like to laugh! even a light lol is a lol
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Sunday, 2 December 2018 23:12 (five years ago) link
Too right.
― Monica Kindle (Tom D.), Sunday, 2 December 2018 23:33 (five years ago) link
Just got a copy of the Hangman's Beautiful Daughter by Incredible String Band and I'm very into stoned whimsy right now
― The Poppy Bush AutoZone (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 3 December 2018 00:00 (five years ago) link
not a bad place to be! :)
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 3 December 2018 01:01 (five years ago) link
when will the Shirley Collins doc make it to my city?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!? that is what i would like to know
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 3 December 2018 01:13 (five years ago) link
Yeah that looks amazing
― The Poppy Bush AutoZone (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 3 December 2018 01:48 (five years ago) link
A book on Dr. Strangely Strange coming out in March, looks promising (got a blurb from Rob Young who wrote Electric Eden):
https://drstrangelystrange.co.uk/index.html
― by the light of the burning Citroën, Monday, 3 December 2018 02:50 (five years ago) link
Oof, I picked up a vinyl copy of the reissue and it's so, so wonderful. It's really, really got to me. Less than NV but I have some vaguer connections with the Hull area and it's enchanting me. Love this place, this is really unexpected.
― kraudive, Friday, 7 December 2018 17:47 (five years ago) link
Was surprised to see a copy of Domino's Bright Phoebus in Fopp and I bought it. I assumed they'd all be gone.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 7 December 2018 21:06 (five years ago) link
I freaked out and ended up with two copies - bought the cheapest new copy on discogs, then found one in a local record shop before the first order had been confirmed so I bought that too just in case
― my name is leee john, for we are many (NickB), Friday, 7 December 2018 21:27 (five years ago) link
Does it have the second disc, the demos? I love Song for Thirza.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Friday, 7 December 2018 23:07 (five years ago) link
For those into ‘digital ownership’ and who are trying to figure out what to spend their emusic credits on as that service spins down the drain, they still had the expanded version for sale as of this past Monday
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Saturday, 8 December 2018 17:09 (five years ago) link
Hmm. The download code I got with my sealed vinyl copy didn't work.
― kraudive, Saturday, 8 December 2018 17:48 (five years ago) link
I've just ordered the 2 CD version of Bright Phoebus on German Amazon Marketplace. I own the single disc version, but want to get the deluxe set.
― Duke, Saturday, 8 December 2018 21:27 (five years ago) link
The seller says they have one new copy in stock for standard price
― Duke, Saturday, 8 December 2018 21:28 (five years ago) link
C'mon "Shady Lady" and "Rubber Band" are amazing. Amazing how they made such a great song out of just effectively saying "you need more sun" repatedly. Maybe my second or third favorite.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 22 December 2018 12:46 (five years ago) link
RAG you are a mensch
― Driving Drone for Christmas (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 22 December 2018 12:49 (five years ago) link
I ordered from a Barnes & Noble marketplace seller, just got randomly refunded and order cancelled : /
Someone must've gone to discogs
― Ae$op Rocky (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 22 December 2018 14:15 (five years ago) link
Of all my favorite genres, I have the least experience with folk music and I'm quite scared to find how deep it goes (but I guess even with other genres I like, you rarely get a sense of how big the whole picture is). This feels long delayed because I got into June Tabor about 15 years ago (see my Tabor thread revive) and only occasionally dip back in to folk.
How good a guide is the Electric Eden book? I guess it leans more towards the psychedelic side?
Are there any guides that go through European folk that has a similar enough aesthetic to british folk?
How did you guys find your way around?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 22 December 2018 17:05 (five years ago) link
About 20 years ago a friend gave me a stack of C90 cassettes of mostly Enlglish fold and folk rock. I had just gotten out of a lengthy relationship and, because I worked retail, would be mostly alone during the holidays and unable to travel back home. I was unfamiar with the genre but these tapes really resonated with me and I was grateful for the time my friend spent recording the tapes which even included some handmade cover art. I still have these in a box somewhere.
Silly Sisters and Tabor's Airs and Graces comprised one tape. Fotheringay and Triona another? Definietly Steeleye Span and some Sandy Denny and Fairport.
Anne Briggs The Time Has Come was reissued maybe a month later and that record really broke the genre open for me. I essentially followed the thread created by those records and would flip through issues of Dirty Linen when I came across them for other names and connections. I feel like I've really only scratched the surface and haven't even really begun exploring other European folk music.
― sknybrg, Saturday, 22 December 2018 22:27 (five years ago) link
I learned about Shirley Collins, bought and read and listened to everything I could find, it led me to everyone else. Her stuff is still my favorite for Dolly's arrangements (Anthems in Eden with EMC of London in particular) and there is a huge family tree to explore from there. I was also really into the US/UK folk divide so I enjoyed all of the Lomax-recorded Child Ballads etc. Electric Eden is a good read and I would definitely recommend it.
European folk that is not UK/British folk is a total mystery to me but I would love to find an interpreter I love as much as I love Shirley & co.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Saturday, 22 December 2018 22:31 (five years ago) link
Yes! How could I forget that Shirley and Dolly For As Many As Will was on one of these tapes. I need to rummage through my closet and pull my cassettes out and revisit them.
― sknybrg, Saturday, 22 December 2018 22:38 (five years ago) link
I remember seeing some intriguing but small RYM lists with Russian folk that looked like it should appeal to british folk fans. I guess French folk is fairly well known compared to a lot of countries.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 22 December 2018 22:43 (five years ago) link
Véronique Chalot’s J'ai vu le loup is a good mix of French and British styles, a bit like Comus or Catherine Ribiero in places, but mostly gentle pastoral.
― eva logorrhea (bendy), Saturday, 22 December 2018 22:52 (five years ago) link
Can't think of much European folk that sounds too similar to British/Irish folk music - Alan Stivell, of course, from 'Little Britain'.
― Once in Rahul Dravid's City (Tom D.), Saturday, 22 December 2018 23:02 (five years ago) link
She’s Breton too
― eva logorrhea (bendy), Saturday, 22 December 2018 23:08 (five years ago) link
I've been listening to Malicorne (amazing) and there's a lot of Scottish sounding stuff in there. I have heard that a lot of Scottish tradition comes from france though (I should know this, could have swore a music teacher told us that bagpipes and tartan were french).
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 22 December 2018 23:09 (five years ago) link
There's bagpipes everywhere - even England!
― Once in Rahul Dravid's City (Tom D.), Saturday, 22 December 2018 23:10 (five years ago) link
Been topping up my amazon wishlist and Watersons - Yorkshire Garland isn't on CD.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 22 December 2018 23:29 (five years ago) link
Malicorne is the one French folk group I am familiar with and the records I’ve heard I absolutely love. The droning quality is blissful to me. If anyone knows more about the French folk scene, I’m all ears.Re Electric Eden. I haven’t read it but the library has a copy I should borrow. Sounds like a good winter read
― sknybrg, Sunday, 23 December 2018 04:40 (five years ago) link
I read as much as google books would allow me of a folk/psych-folk book by Jeanette Leech called Seasons They Change - pretty absorbing.
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Sunday, 23 December 2018 18:53 (five years ago) link
I did a posts search for Malicorne the other day and found a lot of helpful info about French folk. I came at Malicorne more as a prog band but seemingly their early days were more in the classic folk rock mode.
I should watch BBC's Folk Britania again, that was very generous to give us a full 3 episodes because the other ones on metal, prog and synth only really skimmed the surface (although it was nice to see some less familiar faces). I didn't pay close enough attention to all 3 episodes when they first aired.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 23 December 2018 19:20 (five years ago) link
Electric Eden is a great read. Covers lots of ground - a lot of it probably familiar to many ILMers, but I'd definitely recommend it.
― Duke, Sunday, 23 December 2018 19:22 (five years ago) link
https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/folk
Checking all the subgenre charts could take forever but there's a lot of interesting looking stuff there (Warsaw City Folk?). Cant find a Russian category oddly. Charts probably aren't particularly reliable outside of the traditions most familiar to us (Robbie Robertson at no2 of Native American, Okami videogame soundtrack at no1 of East Asian).
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 23 December 2018 19:50 (five years ago) link
― Robert Adam Gilmour
electric eden is a great book but i found it unfortunately not very useful as a listening guide. rob young has a real gift for describing music in a creative and tantalizing way that i found in many cases the reality didn't hold up to.
rym charts have some good stuff in them but require extensive filtering to get rid of, say, strasserites.
― errang (rushomancy), Sunday, 23 December 2018 20:16 (five years ago) link
here i stumbled onto this list copied from holy warbles, probably better to go with lists than charts as a general rule on rym
https://rateyourmusic.com/list/ceesar/holy-warbles/
― errang (rushomancy), Sunday, 23 December 2018 20:45 (five years ago) link
I bought myself 'anthems in eden' on vinyl as a xmas present. Been digging the other Watersons stuff I got too; was the 'soul cake' song really creepy for people in the past, or is it just modern ears?
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Sunday, 23 December 2018 21:28 (five years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ20dtnZG14
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Sunday, 23 December 2018 21:29 (five years ago) link
It reminds me of a Xmas Carol, which I guess must have been made in the same mode...but I can't remember which.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Sunday, 23 December 2018 21:30 (five years ago) link
"Christmas is Coming" has the same "if you haven't got a penny" bit
― Driving Drone for Christmas (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 23 December 2018 22:38 (five years ago) link
I can't quite remember what it was I was thinking of. We Three Kings is maybe similar in what seems to me like the 'flatness' of the tune?
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Sunday, 23 December 2018 22:44 (five years ago) link
Or maybe 'God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen' - I have no clue about music theory, they just have something in common to my ears.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Sunday, 23 December 2018 22:46 (five years ago) link
I get you, I was also thinking about the Coventry Carol because of the eerie minor key vibe
― Driving Drone for Christmas (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 23 December 2018 22:50 (five years ago) link
It's kind of the old 'minor key = sad' kind of debate. Did the people at the time find these eerie and negative, or do we think they are because of associations we have.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Sunday, 23 December 2018 22:53 (five years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5CZHHK2WQQ
I feel a wyrd Christmas coming on
― Driving Drone for Christmas (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 23 December 2018 22:57 (five years ago) link
I feel like there's something - maybe deliberate - that folk revival people were doing that generates a lot of the eerieness. Compare different versions of a standard like "Lord Bateman", Nic Jones's for example has a tune that's at odds with the lyric in adding this layer of melancholy to it
https://youtube.com/watch? v=wMI11GaHC00
https://youtube.com/watch? v=0C_wyEpaNP8
― Driving Drone for Christmas (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 23 December 2018 23:05 (five years ago) link
― Driving Drone for Christmas (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 23 December 2018 23:07 (five years ago) link
I'm in my cups listening to Bright Phoebus, which will probably be the tone of the holidays.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Sunday, 23 December 2018 23:07 (five years ago) link
gah, phone links
so this is the one that really sticks in my head and i find myself humming loudly in public.got good seats for Shirley's roundhouse show early next year and really looking forward to it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mazxGlUoSQ8
― Hmmmmm (jamiesummerz), Sunday, 23 December 2018 23:40 (five years ago) link
I think "Winifer Odd" is the best demo on the second disc of Bright Phoebus. It has something a little different from the official version, maybe it's mostly the guitars?
I saw another two copies in Fopp and bought one for a friend. Surprised there's still a bunch sitting around in shops.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 11 January 2019 17:43 (five years ago) link
Listening to Once in a Blue Moon and Bed of Roses by Lal Waterson and Oliver Knight on this rainy November morning in the office. Lal's lyrics induce a pleasant vertigo, like being next in line for a roller coaster or when you get just a little bit of opiate and a chance to lie down.
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Thursday, 7 November 2019 16:38 (four years ago) link
i don't think i've heard that one ... will have to check it out. i've been revisiting the Electric Muse comp in a big way over the past couple months — a really pleasurable and revealing listen.
― tylerw, Thursday, 7 November 2019 16:52 (four years ago) link
It's two albums from the 90s that Lal Waterson recorded with her son... she sadly died while Bed of Roses was being recorded in 1998.
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Thursday, 7 November 2019 17:06 (four years ago) link
Thanks for the heads up, I saw them in Fopp and picked them up.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 23 November 2019 15:48 (four years ago) link
I rewatched Olivier Assayas's Something in the Air last night and really took notice of Amazing Blondel's "Fantasia Lindum" (1971). Afterwards, was able to order it and another of their albums as a twofer CD.
― clemenza, Saturday, 21 March 2020 15:01 (four years ago) link
from Post-Fahey etc. Pt 2 thread:Just listened to John Rebourn's The Attic Tapes, out Oct. 16. They go back at least to '62---he died before getting all the dates, but his commentary is really fluent, analyzing some of the songs, without getting pedantic, and talking about how several of them came together, incl. ones whose (probable) sources were unguessed way back when he learned 'em: who knew "Can't Keep From Cryin'" was a Blind Willie, and it's one of several familiar titles who sound really different from any version I knew.He also talks about finding traces of the UK songster Davey Graham in various cities, ideas that lodged in the heads of musos who may well have had no reel-to-reels, or anyway didn't need one to summon the bits that JR puts together here. Mind you, he does give Graham the writer's credit for the opening tightly loose bedsit version of "Anji"(that's from the box marked "1962").Most are like that, as he says up front, with no thought they'd ever be heard---apprentice JR, but he's already got it, and the audio's a lot better than I expected: just whoosh on the hemp carpet, and You Are There. Ditto the live tracks, where you can tell he knew somebody was listening.He's an okay-to-good singer, maybe more the former, but we also get a couple of nice jolts from Beverly Martyn, on young Donovan's Jansch-y "Picking Up The Sunshine." JR mentions her being on the cover of a Jansch LP...need to check out more of her stuff; I only know her from the album with hubbie John. She's even better on a tight blues. Though actually most of this is pretty concise--20 tracks in 60'48"---with no lack of atmosphere.Also a couple guest shots from the Hurdy Gurdy Man, Mac Macleod (vocals and guitar only), and the grand finale teams JR with Graham himself, on "Nobody Knows You When You're Down And Out": jazzy-bluesy, duh, and rawther magical. What other Graham should I check out?Oh yeah, audio and more info here:http://www.worldmusic.net/store/item/TUG1089/PS: speaking of Jansch, this also has an intriguing solo Renbourn version of "Courtship Blues," which Renbourn says is Jansch's first song--they hadn't met then, and the writer hadn't recorded it yet, but Renbourn heard it when Tom Paley came down from Edinburgh.Wantin those Graham tips yall.
― dow, Tuesday, September 8, 2015 6:11 PM (four years ago) bookmarkflaglink
lots of davy graham releases i've yet to hear but...
the comp that came out on see for miles is a great place to start, picks and chooses from most of his decca albums. not sure if this has been superseded by a more recent collection or not.
favourite dg lp of mine: large as life & twice as natural. stretched out folk blues jazz raga (love the joni both sides now cover that kicks it off), cd reissue has good notes from john renbourn himself.
& if you don't want to hear him sing (i like his voice personally) the collaboration with shirley collins is a+
― no lime tangier, Tuesday, September 8, 2015
― dow, Saturday, 21 March 2020 21:18 (four years ago) link
This was mostly good too:Artist: John Renbourn & Wizz JonesTitle: Joint ControlCatalogue No: TUGCD1095Barcode: 605633009521Label: Riverboat RecordsRelease date: 9 September 2016
Wizz is among a host of performers appearing at a special John Renbourn Tribute concert on Thursday 22 September at Cecil Sharp House, London.
Riverboat Records is delighted and proud to be releasing Joint Control whose 13 songs wonderfully embody the fruits of that friendship, capturing the two great artists and consummate guitarists performing together live and in the studio. The album is all the more poignant because it represents the final recordings by John Renbourn, the final tracks made just days before his death on 26 March 2015 from a heart attack at his home in Hawick in the Scottish borders.
At the time of John’s death, Joint Control was almost entirely finished. The pair had been working together since the start of the year in a small studio, about an hour from John’s Hawick home. Alongside the sheer artistry of their playing you can’t but escape the warmth of the camaraderie permeating these performances. Most of the songs are drawn from a repertoire honed through their touring together since 2012; the only original composition, Wizz’s instrumental ‘Balham Moon’, was recorded at the insistence of John, who also gave it a title.
Of course, many of the songs date back to that extraordinary period of the 1960s when Wizz and John first met, reflecting the ideas and techniques that were shared by all the young British pickers and the influences which neither Wizz nor John would have hesitated to acknowledge - Big Bill Broonzy, Sonny Terry & Brownie McGhee, Josh White and Davy Graham.
The version of ‘Glory Of Love’ here is one of two performances taken from a brace of Edinburgh shows in 2014; it was learnt via a version performed by Big Bill Broonzy rather than the million-selling hit by The Five Keys. Broonzy’s ‘Hey Hey’ also fittingly opens Joint Control. The other song taped at these shows, ‘Great Dream from Heaven’, is from the repertoire of Bahaman gospel singer Joseph Spence. John was a great admirer of Spence’s work but the song was also a staple of Davy Graham’s set. “It was through Davy that we knew it,” recalled Wizz to Peter Paphides whose fine notes grace this collection. “We didn’t know much more about it than that, but then John researched it and went back to the roots of it a bit more.”
Joint Control is fundamentally steeped in the history of British folk music in the 1960s with many songs by Wizz and John’s contemporaries such as Al Jones and Archie Fisher. Another on the scene was Jackson C. Frank who first arrived in London in 1965; his most famous song, ‘Blues Run The Game’, was one Wizz had never got round to recording. It was only in more recent years that he started to play it, albeit it from Bert Jansch’s version.
Bert Jansch himself is appropriately represented on this album by no less than three performances each one bearing the hallmarks of his unique technique and great songwriting. The unreleased instrumental ‘Joint Control’ is an early example of the reflective, intricate filigree work that would dramatically bear fruit on 1966’s Bert & John album. It was actually recorded for Jansch’s It Don’t Bother Me the previous year but inexplicably left off the final selection. Masterfully interpreted here by John with Wizz, it makes it’s presence here all the more special and significant.
The anthemic ‘Strolling Down The Highway’ first appeared on Jansch’s debut which in the hands of Wizz and John - as eloquently described by Peter Paphides: “now sounds like a careworn validation of the bohemian aspirations parlayed by Bert and all the contemporaries for whom the guitar represented an escape route from the expectations of their forebears.” The other Jansch song, ‘Fresh As A Sweet Sunday Morning’, from his LA Turnaround album, always provided one of the most moving moments in Wizz and John’s shows together; Wizz would usually look skywards at the song’s close. In the wake of John’s death, this recorded version becomes even more heartfelt and moving.
As much as Joint Control is steeped in the celebrated history that its two participants shared, these genuinely historic recordings also sound utterly fresh and contemporary. John and Wizz had only rarely appeared on record together in the past. John produced (and played a little) on Wizz’s 1972 album Right Now, as well as on 2011’s Lucky The Man so we can be particularly thankful that these recordings were made. As Peter Paphides concludes: “Joint Control is a fitting testament to two musicians who never forgot the spirit of joy and exploration which made them pick up their instruments in the first place; two fires of more than fifty years standing. We’re very fortunate that they managed to capture it in time.”
should be tracks from this and The Attic Tapes here:https://soundcloud.com/world-music-network/
― dow, Monday, July 4, 2016 5:18 PM (three years ago) bookmarkflaglink
Re "Glory of Love," John Martyn used to do a good extended version of it also.
― dow, Monday, July 4, 2016
― dow, Saturday, 21 March 2020 21:23 (four years ago) link
Oh, here's what I said about it later:Listening to that John Renbourn & Wizz Jones set, Joint Control, which I posted info about recently. Somehow not yet into the opening and closing instrumentals---though appreciating the latter's it-ain't-over-yet diligent picking-as-digging as an end---but the one in the middle, Jones's "Balham Moon," is pretty cool, and the singing x playing of the others also bring several cycling shades of blues-as-a-feeling vs. purism, even in the Renaissance Faire come-on, "Fresh As A Sweet Sunday Morning," JR's notes got thee pangs. Mostly, though, it's closer to the relatively expected sort of UK and American rare birds, "Buckets of Rain" aside. Distinct approaches, but very cohesive (think Renbourn plays most of the solos).
― dow, Tuesday, July 12, 2016
― dow, Saturday, 21 March 2020 21:25 (four years ago) link
And this:
Listened to this---circle of friends on the living room carpet, late night but not too laid back---agreeable vocals, lyrics add roadmarks, guitars keep it moving through my attention (same label that put out those aforementioned posthumous Renbourns, the most recent a live set w Wizz):
JONES, BERRYMAN & JONESCome What MayArtist: Wizz Jones, Pete Berryman &Simeon JonesTitle: Come What MayCatalogue No: TUGCD1102Barcode: 605633010220Label: Riverboat RecordsRelease date: 26 May 2017RIVERBOAT RECORDS PRESS RELEASEFellow acoustic guitar innovators and long-time friends Wizz Jones and Pete Berryman haveunmistakable styles that beautifully complement each other. With textured accompanimentby Simeon Jones on saxophone, harmonica and flute this is an album of great song writing andseamless musicianship.Inspired by hearing Big Bill Broonzy and Ramblin’ Jack Elliot, Wizz Jones learnt his guitar licks fromthe likes of Davy Graham and Long John Baldry whilst playing in the coffee bars of London’s Sohoin the late 1950s. He then followed the time-honoured buskers trail from the streets of Paris to themarkets of Marrakech during the early 1960s and returned to Britain with a unique acoustic guitarstyle, an eclectic repertoire and a right hand worthy of Broonzy! Eric Clapton, Keith Richards and JohnRenbourn have all named him as an important early influence and in May 2012 Bruce Springsteenopened his Berlin show with Wizz’s song ‘When I Leave Berlin’.Back in 1960 a be-suited reporter Alan Whicker had filmed a piece for the BBC’s ‘Tonight’ programmereporting on the ‘beatnik menace’ in Newquay, Cornwall. It included two musical offerings from Wizz,one of them a song in the style of Woody Guthrie called ‘Hard Times In Newquay’ (if you’ve got longhair!). The youthful Wizz explained to Alan ‘All I’m interested in is playing the guitar and travelling.’Unfortunately for the local councillors who spoke about how they were trying to expel the beatniks,the latter had already had a profound effect on the local youth in the shape of Pete Berryman; Pete’sfirst experience of live acoustic guitar was seeing the very same Wizz Jones, barefoot and busking onthe beach in Newquay.Pete Berryman arrived on the music scene in the 1960s with the Famous Jug Band which alsofeatured Clive Palmer of the Incredible String Band. At this time, he also recorded with Ralph McTell,Al Stewart and in 1971 his influential LP with John James,Sky In My Pie, was released.Simeon Jones often travelled with father Wizz during the 1960s and 1970s to Cornwall in a variety ofjalopy VW buses and Citroens as well as to numerous festivals in the UK and Europe. Avoiding theguitar (perhaps sensibly!) he developed into a superb sax, harmonica and flute player and has beenplaying since the 1980s a wide variety of music in sessions and on tours with countless blues bands.The music on this album results from three musicians who have nothing to prove, getting togetherfor a few days and playing assuredly on a few songs and tunes they all love. There are original songsfrom both Pete and Wizz along with Bert Jansch’s ‘Moonshine’ and Fran Landesman’s wonderful‘Ballad Of The Sad Young Men’.Wizz’s song ‘Alone In My Car’ perhaps sums up the overall mood; driving through the night, headingfor Cornwall, looking forward to playing some music with Pete and other friends. ‘Playing the guitarand travelling’ – still doing it after all these years. Long may it continue - come what may!For more information, visit www.worldmusic.net
― dow, Monday, May 1, 2017 5:08 PM (two years ago) bookmarkflaglink
booklet:
01 YOU’RE BLASÉ(Hamilton/Sievier) pub Chappell Music LtdA song composed in 1933 and featured in astage musical called ‘Bow Bells’. Hearing thison a cassette transcription from an old 78rpm disc played and sung at the piano by thatold rascal Leslie ‘Hutch’ Hutchinson remindedme of musical evenings when as a child athome in Croydon, listening to the BBC, thewind-up gramophone and my mother jauntilyplaying the piano during the dark winters ofthe 1940s.02 SEE HOW THE TIME IS FLYING(Tunbridge) Copyright ControlI make no excuses for revisiting this beautifulAlan Tunbridge song yet again. There must beso many generations who’ve yet to hear it!03 POACHER’S MOON(Jones) pub Year Zero MusicOne cold night in November somewhere inGermany back in the 1970s I was carousingwith the double bass master Danny Thompson.‘That’s called a “Poacher’s Moon”, Wizz,’ hesaid looking up at the Harvest Moon whichwas briefly visible between the clouds. Imisunderstood and thought that a ‘Poacher’sMoon’ meant a dark night with no moon,hence the lyrics in my song. He then wenton to wax lyrical on his wild times on tourwith the guitarist John Martyn - up to theirwaist in freezing water at midnight, fishingin the Scottish Highlands. I just had to writesomething to keep that vision in my mind!04 A RED PAPER ROSE(Berryman) Copyright ControlPete’s imagining the story from another side.05 BEWARE OF CHARMING FRIENDS(Jones) pub Year Zero MusicI guess sometimes my songs get too personal!06 THE BALLAD OF THE SAD YOUNG MEN(Landesman/Wolf) Copyright ControlDavy Graham, a great inspiration to allacoustic guitarists in the 1960s, recorded thisFran Landesman poem on his second albumand I’ve always wanted to sing it.07 ANOTHER CHRISTMAS WITH YOU(Jones) pub Year Zero MusicNot to be taken too seriously. A blues riff thatcame out of one of my favourite guitar tunings– EADEBE.08 COME WHAT MAY(Berryman) Copyright ControlPete’s letter to his daughter09 MOONSHINE(Jansch) pub Leola Music LtdIt was the great Bert Jansch who presenteda nine-year-old Simeon with an old woodenflute, thus starting him off on a never endingmusical journey. When I heard Simeon’s sonAlfie playing Bert’s song, naturally I persuadedhim to come into the studio to play on thistrack.10 SEA SONG(Berryman) Copyright ControlSome maritime musings from Pete.11 ALONE IN MY CAR(Jones) pub Year Zero MusicHeading for my beloved Cornwall for thethousandth time.BONUS TRACKS:12 THE KING OF ROME (BONUS TRACK)(Sudbury) pub Cloud Valley Music13 THE NEW MOON’S ARMS (BONUS TRACK)(Lowe/Sanders) pub Lowe Life Music14 ALBATROSS (BONUS TRACK)(Green) pub BMG Rights Management (UK) LtdMUSICIANS:Wizz Jones: acoustic guitar, vocalsPete Berryman: acoustic guitar, vocalsSimeon Jones: tenor saxaphone, flute, harmonica andvocalsGuest Musicians:Alfie Jones: acoustic guitar on track 9Anne Sumner: vocals on tracks 8 and 11Produced by Wizz Jones and Andy LevienRecorded, mixed and mastered by Andy Levien at RMSStudios, London, 2016Track notes by Wizz JonesSleeve notes by Maggie Holland
Visit www.worldmusic.net to hear sound samples of allalbums on Riverboat Records.
― dow, Monday, May 1, 2017
― dow, Saturday, 21 March 2020 21:27 (four years ago) link
Interesting background, Davey Graham, he was mixed race: Scottish and English, no, seriously, his mother was Guyanese and his father was Scottish. I saw him play once and he was pretty terrible, I'm sure I must have posted about it on here.
― Bridge Over Thorley Waters (Tom D.), Saturday, 21 March 2020 21:30 (four years ago) link
I saw John Renbourn playing with Robin Williamson too, which was much better!
― Bridge Over Thorley Waters (Tom D.), Saturday, 21 March 2020 21:31 (four years ago) link
Ah, here we are...
Glad to say that I saw Bert Jansch (a few times), Davy Graham (which was, er, interesting) and John Renbourn live before they died, John with Robin Williamson... don't die yet, Robin!― Betel-chewing Equipment of East New Guinea (Tom D.), Friday, 27 March 2015 07:51 (four years ago) linkTom, curious about Davy Graham, what was the like? From what I've read he was an intense person― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 27 March 2015 12:27 (four years ago) linkIntensely fucked up on something or other - booze, pills, smack, who knows what. He basically couldn't play anymore but he couldn't play in a bewildering variety of styles and genres, Buxtehude to raga to calypso, his set must have covered about 6 centuries. At one point he brought a guy he was teaching to play guitar up on stage and, to be honest, it was a relief to have someone play without bum notes, fluffs, fumbles etc.― Betel-chewing Equipment of East New Guinea (Tom D.), Friday, 27 March 2015 12:51 (four years ago) link
― Betel-chewing Equipment of East New Guinea (Tom D.), Friday, 27 March 2015 07:51 (four years ago) link
Tom, curious about Davy Graham, what was the like? From what I've read he was an intense person
― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 27 March 2015 12:27 (four years ago) link
Intensely fucked up on something or other - booze, pills, smack, who knows what. He basically couldn't play anymore but he couldn't play in a bewildering variety of styles and genres, Buxtehude to raga to calypso, his set must have covered about 6 centuries. At one point he brought a guy he was teaching to play guitar up on stage and, to be honest, it was a relief to have someone play without bum notes, fluffs, fumbles etc.
― Betel-chewing Equipment of East New Guinea (Tom D.), Friday, 27 March 2015 12:51 (four years ago) link
... that's all I could find but that's like 10 years after the gig and I'm sure I posted something about at the time. I remember turning up for the gig a bit early and seeing him stood on his own at the back of the venue, bolt upright and completely still, for an unnaturally long time.
― Bridge Over Thorley Waters (Tom D.), Saturday, 21 March 2020 21:44 (four years ago) link
See the Ken Russell thread for folk documentary.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Monday, 10 August 2020 18:31 (three years ago) link
I'm devastated by the death of my friend and collaborator Celia Ford Drummond, formerly Humphris, singer for folk band Trees. I was honoured to have her beautiful voice on my Dodson and Fogg albums, to share vinyl space with her, and to know her. A kind, caring lady. RIP xxx pic.twitter.com/ap1kyrrmPU— Chris Wade (@dodsonandfogg) January 11, 2021
― kites aren't fun (NickB), Monday, 11 January 2021 21:58 (three years ago) link
RIP! Been on a major Trees kick since that box set came out. Great voice / vibe.
― tylerw, Monday, 11 January 2021 22:04 (three years ago) link
i missed out on the box, but catching up on all the extra tracks now via spotify. such a lovely band, horrible sad news this
― kites aren't fun (NickB), Monday, 11 January 2021 22:30 (three years ago) link
more of a reminder to myself, but there's a big 1991 terrascope interview with celia here that i need to sit down and read:
http://terrascope.co.uk/MyBackPages/The_Trees.htm
― kites aren't fun (NickB), Monday, 11 January 2021 22:37 (three years ago) link
gosh, her voice still sounds great on those 2018 live cuts
― kites aren't fun (NickB), Monday, 11 January 2021 22:40 (three years ago) link
jesus christ, that bit where they come back in after the fake-out ending on murdoch *always* gets every hair in my brain standing on end
― kites aren't fun (NickB), Monday, 11 January 2021 22:44 (three years ago) link
Sad top hear about her passing.I'm hoping that a copy of the box set is actually going to arrive having now been told taht it was on its way to me as an Xmas present.
― Stevolende, Tuesday, 12 January 2021 00:25 (three years ago) link
I've been listening to a lot of Davy Graham in the last few days and god I'd forgotten how transcendent he can be. Midnight Man in particular is sending me to all sorts of places. Anyone have any experience with the recent Bread & Wine reissues? I can't find much in the way of information about them anywhere (even the Hoffman forums seem empty of news or opinion!).
― Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Wednesday, 31 March 2021 18:13 (two years ago) link
Been on a Spotify kick of Scottish travelers and some English stuff:Belle StewartDavie StewartJeannie Robertson Fred JordanSam Larner
― brimstead, Wednesday, 31 March 2021 18:18 (two years ago) link
Way upthread, I reposted my from one of the post-Fahey threads about xpost Davey Graham re Renbourn's early 60s-travelling The Attic Tapes, and no lime tangier provided me with some Graham tips:
(in the notes, Renbourn) also talks about finding traces of the UK songster Davey Graham in various cities, ideas that lodged in the heads of musos who may well have had no reel-to-reels, or anyway didn't need one to summon the bits that JR puts together here. Mind you, he does give Graham the writer's credit for the opening tightly loose bedsit version of "Anji"(that's from the box marked "1962")....the grand finale teams JR with Graham himself, on "Nobody Knows You When You're Down And Out": jazzy-bluesy, duh, and rawther magical. What other Graham should I check out?Oh yeah, audio and more info here:http://www.worldmusic.net/store/item/TUG1089/Wantin those Graham tips yall.
favourite dg lp of mine: large as life & twice as natural. stretched out folk blues jazz raga (love the joni both sides now cover that kicks it off), cd reissue has good notes from john renbourn himself.& if you don't want to hear him sing (i like his voice personally) the collaboration with shirley collins is a+
― dow, Wednesday, 31 March 2021 21:20 (two years ago) link
I'd not heard Large As Life - brilliant. The Joni cover is magnificent. Davy's magic aside, Danny Thompson is in imperious form, Jon Hiseman too.
― Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Saturday, 3 April 2021 19:56 (two years ago) link
The live set from Hull University is pretty great. Or athat is to say the dorms after I think an earlier gig.ITs called After hours at Hull or something
― Stevolende, Saturday, 3 April 2021 23:38 (two years ago) link
I could really do with getting Caedmon but i think the current release had no cd version.
― Stevolende, Saturday, 3 April 2021 23:52 (two years ago) link
Thought would be about next week’s release of Beeswing.
― It Is Dangerous to Meme Inside (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 4 April 2021 02:18 (two years ago) link
Next week?Right time flies by.There was an extract in the last Uncut the VU covered one.Seemed to fly through some time that I would have hoped was more thoroughly covered so hope it was more of an intro. But yeah do think it is pretty essential
― Stevolende, Sunday, 4 April 2021 10:40 (two years ago) link
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/jan/13/carthy-folk-dynasty-appeals-for-financial-support-after-income-dried-up-during-pandemic Also, Martin and Eliza Carthy are due to play live throughout the UK this winter, with an intermittent run of dates kicking off in Durham on 27 January. Eliza wrote that she had recorded a new album during the pandemic, proceeds from which would also help the family. No mention of Norma's participation; hope she's okay.
― dow, Friday, 14 January 2022 19:51 (two years ago) link
Sad to read that story, will definitely bung them a few quid as soon as I can
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Saturday, 15 January 2022 13:52 (two years ago) link
Eliza posted that Norma passed away yesterday. RIP.
― joni mitchell jarre (anagram), Monday, 31 January 2022 09:41 (two years ago) link
;_; RIP Norma
― Someone left a space telescope out in the rain (Tom D.), Monday, 31 January 2022 09:56 (two years ago) link
Tragic news. I'd gone to the record shop to buy a copy of For Pence and Spicy Ale, and was informed of her death by the shop owner.
― vexingvexillologist, Monday, 31 January 2022 21:29 (two years ago) link
That version of Hal-An-Tow on Frost and Fire, I don't even know what half of it means tbh, but that to me is one of the most joyful and life-affirming songs I can think of, that song basically banishes death and that is how I will always think of her. RIP Norma
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Monday, 31 January 2022 21:42 (two years ago) link
oh :(
coming at it from the opposite direction to Nick, I feel like every word of Red Wine & Promises off of Bright Phoebus is seared into my brain and I feel as though I understand what she meant exactly, down to the last nuance, and it is one of the saddest and most beautiful songs I've ever heard. one of those rare songs i've listened to repeatedly at moments of crisis in my life, just poured my soul into it and internalised it and made it all about me and my parents. a fucking wonder of a song.
but yes, Hal-An-Tow is joyful, A Souling Song is terrifying.
my Dad got me hooked, he used to play this track in the car when I was quite young and still utterly obsessed with the Libertines (and through them the Smiths, the Clash, the Jam and all of that). this, along with Poor Old Horse by the Albion Band and Penguin Eggs, showed me a completely different vision of what constituted "distinctly British music" and i'll always be grateful for that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9qlI6hQYy0
RIP
― Windsor Davies, Tuesday, 1 February 2022 00:05 (two years ago) link
on his invaluable doomandgloomfromthetomb tumblr, ilxor tylerw sez:...check out this fantastic 1960s documentary on the Watersons, capturing the group very early on in their folk club days. The inky black-and-white style of the film could easily fit in with those classic British kitchen sink realist films of the era — you almost expect Tom Courtenay to be lurking in the background (Instead, there’s Anne Briggs, which is even better). It’s a beautiful time capsule.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vrszb4w318
― dow, Thursday, 17 February 2022 23:33 (two years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOFsJLQZpcM
― xzanfar, Thursday, 17 February 2022 23:48 (two years ago) link
Is this book good? Hadn't heard of it.
Enjoying this book called Dazzling Stranger by Colin Harper. Connecting a lot of dots for me. Recommended if you’re into this sort of thing—British folk, Bert Jansch, blues, what have you. pic.twitter.com/8Ehg2hZMK6— Shane Parish (@shaneparishgtr) July 1, 2022
― dow, Friday, 1 July 2022 20:42 (one year ago) link
Was out a long time ago? I read it but I can't remember much about beyond Bert saying he was never interested in the Beatles.
― Eavis Has Left the Building (Tom D.), Friday, 1 July 2022 20:51 (one year ago) link
yeah thought it pretty great. Also looks at the Edinburgh and i think London folk scenes as they tie in with the narrative. There is a companion cd in 2 versions one either side of the Atlantic. They change a couple of tracks presumably tie din with rights etc.Unexpected appearance of Bruce Loose of Flipper whose dad was a promoter on the folk scene in the late 70s and also put Bert up a few times when he was drinking way too much. & Loose apparently started mimicking his behaviour.
I thought it was a good book as are the other couple of books by Harper I've read. Irish Folk, Trad & Blues: A Secret History and Bathed In Lightning: John McLaughlin, the 60s and the emerald beyond
― Stevolende, Saturday, 2 July 2022 09:29 (one year ago) link
.. Archie Fisher jumping out of a window to avoid Licorice McKechnie's dad is in there I think? Also Licorice and Bert almost getting married?
― Eavis Has Left the Building (Tom D.), Saturday, 2 July 2022 09:33 (one year ago) link
Hell yes. https://t.co/q2F50kLxBZ pic.twitter.com/Ulc1FuKKRW— Tyler Wilcox (@tywilc) July 14, 2022
― dow, Saturday, 16 July 2022 22:10 (one year ago) link
I love when a UK folk band expands their horizons to adopt the propulsive electric bass grooves and backbeat that characterized US folk-rock of the era. This LP is a great example, but Shirley Collins’ otherworldly voice and the song choices keep the vibeS trending traditional pic.twitter.com/q8v8E5zAiD— the modern folk (@themodernfolk) August 1, 2022
― dow, Monday, 1 August 2022 22:29 (one year ago) link
Keep meaning to buy Show of Hands' Singled Out, but I'm little puzzled by what it's meant to be exactly. A compilation of assorted post-2001 songs(?), with two rare recordings from the early 90s Columbus EP and "Crazy Boy" from 1997's Dark Fields. But why? What's it for?
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Monday, 1 August 2022 23:30 (one year ago) link
since the season is officially here and there has been a lot of “brit folk = chilly weather” discourse lately, here’s that uk folk mix i did for @aquadrunkard a while back https://t.co/NPzE7kYLlW— jocelyn romo (@theeroamer) September 25, 2022
― dow, Sunday, 25 September 2022 16:32 (one year ago) link
Lankum album (despite the album art) is really as good as they say
heavy, droney, druidic tradhttps://lankum.bandcamp.com/album/false-lankum
― sean gramophone, Tuesday, 13 June 2023 13:29 (nine months ago) link
Lankum are not British! And there's already a thread for them!
― lord of the rongs (anagram), Tuesday, 13 June 2023 13:42 (nine months ago) link
lol true on both counts, sorry!
― sean gramophone, Tuesday, 13 June 2023 13:49 (nine months ago) link
Oops.
― Renaissance of the Celtic Trumpet (Tom D.), Tuesday, 13 June 2023 14:07 (nine months ago) link
have been spinning shearwater multiple times this last week so seeing this was a nice surprise today: https://thequietus.com/articles/33584-martin-carthy-bakers-dozen-favourite-albums-jon-wilks
― no lime tangier, Monday, 13 November 2023 04:36 (four months ago) link
Lovely Martin Carthy. My grandfather played and sang with him in Bath and Sidmouth. I'm reliably informed their singing voices were very similar too.
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Monday, 13 November 2023 06:24 (four months ago) link