For the majority of posters who can't be arsed to plough through the current Uncut - and who, frankly, could blame you? - they can be briefly summarised thus:
Clapton's taking the faux-liberal viewpoint. He admits to being pissed when he made the original "vote for Enoch" comments in '76 but stands by them fully for the reason that he feels immigration is out of control and that immigrants are being conned to come here by false promises, then shuttled into crap jobs and crap housing. He feels this "con" needs to stop and says that only Enoch had the "foresight" and "vision" to see what was going to happen and stand up and say so.
Racist? Never...why, there's BB King, Buddy Guy, Robert Cray - you know, some of his best friends are black! And just like in '76 - great timing, Eric!
Comments...
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 26 April 2004 12:51 (nineteen years ago) link
― stevie (stevie), Monday, 26 April 2004 12:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 26 April 2004 12:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― mark e (mark e), Monday, 26 April 2004 12:59 (nineteen years ago) link
And as I understand it, Clapton doesn't even live in the UK, preferring as he does to spend the majority of his time in sunny California.
Frankly, America could get along quite well without racist bores like Clapton releasing an album of ... Robert Johnson covers.
And someone should tell Mr. Clapton that there were plenty of (white)people voicing similar "concerns" in the 1930s on the subject of southern (black) people - like, oh, I dunno, Robert Johnson - being "conned" into moving up north to Sweet Home Chicago.
― kjoerup, Monday, 26 April 2004 13:01 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:03 (nineteen years ago) link
So you burning your bridges Marcello?
I thought it was utterly indefensible. He also says:
'..obviously there's no way I could be a racist. It just wouldn't make any sense. But I do have funny feelings about the double standards that have always gone on. And he [Powell] was one man who recognized that and took a real risk in saying something about it.Years later, when I played with Dire Straits at the Mandela concert, one of the promoters came up to me and said 'You know this is your chance formally to apologise for what you said'. And I thought' You must be fucking joking.' And I wouldn't do it. I was so insulted.'
― de, Monday, 26 April 2004 13:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:08 (nineteen years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 26 April 2004 13:09 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:12 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:13 (nineteen years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 26 April 2004 13:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:15 (nineteen years ago) link
― eddie hurt (ddduncan), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:15 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:16 (nineteen years ago) link
"eatin crow blues"
"if i had possession over my senses"
― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:19 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:21 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:31 (nineteen years ago) link
― Robbie Lumsden (Wallace Stevens HQ), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:32 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:33 (nineteen years ago) link
yeah that would probably have something to do with one of his biggest songs being titled "cocaine" *smashes head against monitor*
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:34 (nineteen years ago) link
I'm glad someone said that...
― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:35 (nineteen years ago) link
ok maybe it was the coke made him boring. maybe he was just boring to start with, he just had natty threads...
― Robbie Lumsden (Wallace Stevens HQ), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:40 (nineteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:42 (nineteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:43 (nineteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:44 (nineteen years ago) link
― Robbie Lumsden (Wallace Stevens HQ), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:44 (nineteen years ago) link
xpost
― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:44 (nineteen years ago) link
― de, Monday, 26 April 2004 13:46 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:48 (nineteen years ago) link
JJ Cale wrote "Cocaine"
i see you and raise you this one:
eric clapton did not write, i shot the sherrif.
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:49 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:51 (nineteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:53 (nineteen years ago) link
― briania, Monday, 26 April 2004 14:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 26 April 2004 14:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― briania, Monday, 26 April 2004 14:08 (nineteen years ago) link
And Counting Crows = tedious crap. Game over!
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 26 April 2004 14:09 (nineteen years ago) link
No. Peschek read my ILM comments last week re. indignity of reviewing Bay City Rollers, rang me up and tried it. I told him not to. And as I'm now writing for Time Out, not writing for Uncut doesn't bother me at all.
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 26 April 2004 14:29 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 26 April 2004 14:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― briania, Monday, 26 April 2004 14:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― NRQ (Enrique), Monday, 26 April 2004 14:48 (nineteen years ago) link
― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Monday, 26 April 2004 14:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― NRQ (Enrique), Monday, 26 April 2004 14:53 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 26 April 2004 15:00 (nineteen years ago) link
i couldn't quite work out why clapton was on the cover of a newsstand publication in the 04 == who gives a shit about clapton?!?
― ENRQ (Enrique), Monday, 26 April 2004 15:03 (nineteen years ago) link
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 26 April 2004 15:04 (nineteen years ago) link
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 26 April 2004 15:05 (nineteen years ago) link
-- ENRQ (miltonpinsk...), April 26th, 2004.
hence my slamming ead against monitor.
the observer mm has had chris blue writing for it - arguably the biggest imbecile to turn on a word processor. it is bad.
marcello working 4 time out is a good thing. he will make it better, as i saad, by a long fucking chalk, without even having to metaphorically get out of bed. my experiences with it, not good, though.
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 26 April 2004 15:44 (nineteen years ago) link
― ENRQ (Enrique), Monday, 26 April 2004 16:42 (nineteen years ago) link
i wonder whether there is any connection between the current return to the headlines of all these pivotal moments in the creation of the cultural side of the New Right - Clapton's comments, the announcement today that HBO are to make a film of the Stones' 1967 drug busts and the events that followed (personally i reckon Rees-Mogg defended them when he wasn't expected to mainly because he didn't have the deep and profound cultural Americoscepticism of many other conservatives of his generation and ilk, cf his comments on Bush and Iraq), BBC4 showing the Scorsese documentary on the influence of the blues on mainly southern middle-class Brits - and the fact that we are a week away from the 25th anniversary of Thatcher's election.
― phoebe dinsmore's bastard nephew (robin carmody), Monday, 26 April 2004 21:23 (nineteen years ago) link
Yeah, I was rather irritated to see Uncut filled with nearly 30 pages IIRC on the man... Ironically, the same day I read the Uncut, I was going through some very old Q's (dreadful magazine, generally speaking) in the house and, flicking through, chanced upon an interview with Phil Collins from 1995 or 1996 in which Collins referred to a friendship with Clapton and IIRC said they'd both been talking about Powell supportively. Was a bizare coincidence to come upon this on the same day, and it has ever more turned me against Clapton; whose own music has always bored me anyway.
― Tom May (Tom May), Tuesday, 27 April 2004 02:24 (nineteen years ago) link
― amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 27 April 2004 06:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 27 April 2004 09:44 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tom May (Tom May), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 01:29 (nineteen years ago) link
1. It's really kinda tatty to misrepresent private conversation between us in a public forum. When I realised that you - a regular freelance contributor to Uncut - had been slagging off the magazine and, at one point, me by name, called you immediately. Responding to the somewhat self-dramatising thing you'd said about 'maybe my time at Uncut is coming to an end', I said: "Marcello, when you're good, I really like your writing. However, the swiftest way to 'end your time at Uncut' is to continue post unprofessional shit about the mag and me on messageboards.' What was it you posted: "He tried it and I told him not to." Oh, please. Grow up man.
2. As I later wrote to you, you've had a substantial amount of work from me, including your first Album & Reissue of the month. It seems sad that you're so unconcerned about the end of a relationship with the first publication to give you print work.
3. I asked you to review the Bay City Rollers reissues because, as I told you, I felt you were one of the few writers who could provide some kind of insight and perspective without being cattily dismissive. That's hardly an 'indignity.'
4. Uncut isn't perfect. We exist in the marketplace, with all the vitiated imperatives that implies.
5. You also need to understand that if you intend to work in anyway in print media, you will have to follow a bassline of professionalism: one of the things this means is that if your editor asks you to tweak a line, you don't throw your toys out of the pram. Often it means that they're actually bothering to engage with your work, which is actually a compliment.
6. You also need to realise that Time Out and Uncut are very different magazines, and that if they are willing to run your copy unchanged, that may be for a whole range of reasons, and not simply because they see it as tablets of stone. I will be interested to see whether you're still as enamoured of TO in 6 months time; remember, 6 months ago, you were very happy to be working for Uncut.
7. I mailed you and said the door was still open here, but that you had to reply. You have chosen instead to continue this brittle carping. It is your choice that Uncut's reviews section is no longer home to your occasionally glorious subversion. I think that's a shame.
David
― David Peschek, Wednesday, 28 April 2004 11:57 (nineteen years ago) link
― briania, Wednesday, 28 April 2004 12:09 (nineteen years ago) link
(btw, uncut was not the first publication to offer me work)
― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 28 April 2004 12:21 (nineteen years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 28 April 2004 12:27 (nineteen years ago) link
i like what robin has to say upthread in regard to clapton and, much more so, i would say, jagger
― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 12:32 (nineteen years ago) link
― thesplooge (thesplooge), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 12:35 (nineteen years ago) link
― Sym (shmuel), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 12:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 12:38 (nineteen years ago) link
― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 12:39 (nineteen years ago) link
It speaks volumes, too, that you're unable to respond to the many positive points in my original post.
Oh, well, that would seem to be that.
Apologies to everyone else for this dreary exchange. It has depressed me hugely.
― David Peschek, Wednesday, 28 April 2004 12:41 (nineteen years ago) link
He said it from of Stephen Stills and Bonnie Bramlett, he claims to wind them up - what with him being a real hardcore punker and all (chortle). To her eternal credit, Bonnie Bramlett walloped the little weasel.
― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 12:43 (nineteen years ago) link
He said it in front of Stephen Stills...
― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 12:44 (nineteen years ago) link
(Could someone with a UK law degree give some legal perspective on this on the moderator board?)
(oops xpost)
― MODERATOR (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 12:45 (nineteen years ago) link
if his comment wasnt well received, he would never have apologised.
― thesplooge (thesplooge), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 12:46 (nineteen years ago) link
wasn't it 'blind, ignorant nigger'?
as for the carlin/uncut dust-up.....Jesus H.Clapton.
― ..., Wednesday, 28 April 2004 13:21 (nineteen years ago) link
― Jesus H. Clapton, Wednesday, 28 April 2004 13:52 (nineteen years ago) link
― Donna Brown (Donna Brown), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 15:34 (nineteen years ago) link
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 15:36 (nineteen years ago) link
Wait they asked HIM to tweak the line and he got pissed off?
― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 18:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 18:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 18:20 (nineteen years ago) link
!!!
― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 18:24 (nineteen years ago) link
As someone with some legal training I can confirm that this is every bit as valid as most of Marcello's opinions.
― barry stir, Wednesday, 28 April 2004 18:25 (nineteen years ago) link
― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 18:26 (nineteen years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 18:27 (nineteen years ago) link
However, he is by no means racist.
― David Allen (David Allen), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 18:27 (nineteen years ago) link
http://www.clarence.com/contents/musica/speciali/030527him/images/intro.jpg
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 18:35 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 18:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― El Diablo Curmudgeonbotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 19:12 (nineteen years ago) link
― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 19:21 (nineteen years ago) link
Wasn't he also shitfaced when he said it? Not that that excuses it, of course, but I'd put it nearer to Bowie's coked-up nazi chic folly than Clapton's unapologetic Powell support.
― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 19:35 (nineteen years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 19:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 19:41 (nineteen years ago) link
He was the first musician to drop the N-bomb on a UK top 10 single as well, remember ("Oliver's Army").
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 19:42 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 19:44 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 19:45 (nineteen years ago) link
― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 19:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 20:03 (nineteen years ago) link
― thesplooge (thesplooge), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 21:30 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 22:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― David Allen (David Allen), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 22:16 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 22:17 (nineteen years ago) link
also, dave and thesplooge: I've never called anyone a nigger whilst drunk either, or indeed witnessed anyone doing so. I have, however, seen friends and acquaintances indulge in talk and behaviour that, if I thought that it was a genuine reflection of their personality, I'd be *very* worried about them; and frankly, the thought of someone judging *me* based on drunken behaviour on my part very much frightens me, too.
― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 23:42 (nineteen years ago) link
ie, he liked them as a construct, not a reality, they were nice in the pretty picture books and on the records, and even in the studio! but, please, dont move next door to eric!
― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 29 April 2004 06:25 (nineteen years ago) link
and, also, you could argue that his pro-powellist racism was primarily aimed at pakistani and indian (and, given the time frame, especially ugandan indians fleeing amin) rather than at britains black population, and that he saw no contradiction here.
i believe this to be racist behaviour
― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 29 April 2004 06:29 (nineteen years ago) link
That anyone can seriously believe that Elvis Costello thought Ray Charles was a "blind ignorant nigger" is amazing.
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 29 April 2004 10:33 (nineteen years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 29 April 2004 10:46 (nineteen years ago) link
Belief that other races are intrinsically inferior to your own is clearly racism.
The belief that too rapid an influx of people from other races and cultures into your own may lead to negative consequences is more problematic. I think it is at least possible to hold that view without being racist (ie if you believe the trouble will be caused by aspects of human nature common to all races).
― Hidayglo, Thursday, 29 April 2004 10:58 (nineteen years ago) link
But I also know absolutley nothing about British politics.
― David Allen (David Allen), Thursday, 29 April 2004 11:45 (nineteen years ago) link
― ENRQ (Enrique), Thursday, 29 April 2004 11:52 (nineteen years ago) link
― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 29 April 2004 12:04 (nineteen years ago) link
I go to civil rights rallies And I put down the old D.A.R. I love Harry and Sidney and Sammy I hope every coloured boy becomes a star But don't talk about revolution That's going a little bit too far So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I cheered when Humphrey was chosen My faith in the system restored I'm glad the commies were thrown out of the AFL-CIO board I love Puerto Ricans and Negros as long as they don't move next door So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
The people of old Mississippi Should all hang their heads in shame I can't understand how their minds work What's the matter don't they watch Les Crain? But if you ask me to bus my children I hope the cops take down your name So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I read New Republic and Nation I've learned to take every view You know, I've memorized Lerner and Golden I feel like I'm almost a Jew But when it comes to times like Korea There's no one more red, white and blue So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I vote for the Democratic Party. They want the U.N. to be strong I go to all the Pete Seeger concerts He sure gets me singing those songs I'll send all the money you ask for But don't ask me to come on along So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
Once I was young and impulsive I wore every conceivable pin Even went to the socialist meetings Learned all the old union hymns But I've grown older and wiser And that's why I'm turning you in So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 29 April 2004 13:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 29 April 2004 13:45 (nineteen years ago) link
To be fair, in the context of the times, this was not such an extreme view. The conventional wisdom among economists at the time was that hard choices had to be made in the trade off between unemployment and inflation (or "stagflation"). Full employment was an inappropriate goal because the last x% of jobs were bought at too high a price for the economy as a whole. Even many left-wing economists accepted this as (regrettably) true.
Right-wing economic view are not necessarily racist. Right-wingers broadly believe that people should keep what they earn and that wealth should not be redistributed to the poor. If a disproportionate amount of the poor are from particular racial groups that may look like racism.
Of course as a generalisation people opposed to any redistribution of wealth to the less well off are more likely to be racist than people who approve of redistribution, but being opposed to redistribution is not necessarily racist in itself.
― Hidayglo, Thursday, 29 April 2004 14:09 (nineteen years ago) link
Have we entered some kind of socialist dream without my noticing. That sounds more like the conventional trade-off now than the one perceived then. I don't thin k it was till New Labour that the goal of full employment was quietly dropped.
― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 29 April 2004 14:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 29 April 2004 14:20 (nineteen years ago) link
― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 29 April 2004 14:22 (nineteen years ago) link
Not so. Powell was an early monetarist. The monetarists were the first influential group of post-war economists to argue that higher levels of unemployment were necessary to counter inflation. Thatcher implemented their policies, hence 3M+ unemployed.
In modern terms Brown has been staggeringly successful at combining relatively low inflation with low unemployment. I don't think there's anything particularly socialist about it, but this would certaintly have seemed like a dream to most economists in the 80s.
― Hidayglo, Thursday, 29 April 2004 15:11 (nineteen years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 29 April 2004 15:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― Hidayglo, Thursday, 29 April 2004 15:26 (nineteen years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 29 April 2004 15:33 (nineteen years ago) link
― Donna Brown (Donna Brown), Thursday, 29 April 2004 19:40 (nineteen years ago) link
Wouldn't one think that Powell would have been protectionist, economically speaking (he got support from the dockers, didn't he?)? If only for whites, obviously...
― Tom May (Tom May), Friday, 30 April 2004 00:02 (nineteen years ago) link
― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 30 April 2004 01:24 (nineteen years ago) link
Powell was in many ways on the cusp of the whole contradiction underpinning Thatcherism; a fervent believer in capitalism, his belief in racial and national "purity" and affinity to shared cultural mythology can only be undermined by capitalist expansion. i think he was a classic example of those conservatives who championed the idea of free-market economics as a means of getting us out of what they saw as the entrapping, restrictive post-war corporate state, but weren't so keen on what those theories actually brought about culturally. certainly, despite having championed many New Right economic theories when they were still very marginal in the party, having been passionately anti-Heath, having been slavishly admired by Margaret Thatcher and having seen her vote against the Race Relations Act and almost all similar legislation, he still turned against her in the 1980s because he thought she was too servile to the USA and not sufficiently "independent British". and even though he considered Communism to be evil, he predicted that Britain would be on the Soviet side in a Third World War between the USA and the USSR (many predicted such a war at the time, but even those who believed the whole of continental Europe would go Communist were generally convinced that Britain would hold out), which suspects that his idea of the British people had plenty of room for Statism as an overall concept (such purist ideas have to; they cannot make sense otherwise).
― robin carmody (robin carmody), Friday, 30 April 2004 01:28 (nineteen years ago) link
― enrique (Enrique), Friday, 30 April 2004 06:14 (nineteen years ago) link
essentially Powell was an even balance of three distinct Right-wing tendencies - monetarist, romantic and straight-up racist. monetarism and breaking down the ideas placed in the mainstream by the Attlee government was very important to him for much of his life, it's true, but he held views on the superiority of the aristocracy to everyone else - going hunting as a young man so as to ape the landed classes, even insisting that Shakespeare's plays must have actually been written by some aristocrat because nobody from such relatively "humble" stock could create such great works - which led to a big gulf developing in the 80s between him and younger monetarists, many of whom were concerned almost above all else with breaking down the culture among the British middle classes of genuflecting towards pre-existing upper-class anti-commercial values (what i call "Wienerisation" after the man who had the biggest influence on it). i suspect that Powell's balance of monetarism, romanticism and racism seemed much much less contradictory when he was actually espousing it than it does now, the Right being so much less divided then.
― robin carmody (robin carmody), Friday, 30 April 2004 12:30 (nineteen years ago) link
Powell's insistence about Shakespeare's plays being written by some other aristocrat is truly barmy, and very suggestive of someone who wants to compartmentalise culture in a very rigid way. The man was supposed to be a scholar; did he have much evidence for these specific views on WS' plays' authorship...?
It is amazing to me that the Tories could hold themselves together as they did... the pursuit of power and the common objective to defeat Labour and to restrain 'socialism' are clearly the reason, but it's still strange that Heath, Maudling and MacLeod (whose views and policies are closer to today's left than to the right) could be of the same party as Joseph, Powell and Peter Griffiths (IIRC the name of the candidate who won a Birmingham seat against Labour's Patrick Gordon Walker, in the 1964 GE with an openly racist campaign)...
― Tom May (Tom May), Friday, 30 April 2004 19:52 (nineteen years ago) link
'Powell's insistence about Shakespeare's plays being written by some other aristocrat is truly barmy'
I'm afraid it isn't actually. He may have chosen to believe it for snobbish, classist reasons, indeed so have many others over the last few centuries (Shakespeare Conspiracy Theories do have a long pedigree). But they can't be dismissed that easily. Even Jonathan Bate and Stanley Wells, two of the most prominent Shakespeare scholars, had trouble providing a decent defence in the recent 'Much Ado About something' documentary (which explored the 'Marlowe was Shakespeare' theory). The oft cited' Shakespeare couldn't have written the plays because he wasn't educated enough' reason is contemptible, but also plausible. Not enough to change my mind, but still problematic. Even those candidates who weren't aristocrats, like Marlowe, (who went to Cambridge) had further education. Shakespeare's success in the dramatic/poetic world based on his origins is 'unusual', there's no denying it.
So disbelieving Shakespeare as the Folio author is not 'barmy'. Some barmy people have taken up the cause however.
― de, Friday, 30 April 2004 21:00 (nineteen years ago) link
From all I have experienced of the academic debate; it seems there's little doubt that some works were collaborative; i.e. say, some scenes of "Macbeth" were definitely of the mark of a different writer than the established Shakespeare. I remain to be convinced that there is strong enough evidence for people to assume that an aristocrat wrote WS' plays rather than assume the conventional wisdom.
― Tom May (Tom May), Friday, 30 April 2004 21:09 (nineteen years ago) link
― de, Friday, 30 April 2004 21:34 (nineteen years ago) link
― de, Friday, 30 April 2004 21:54 (nineteen years ago) link
― de, Friday, 30 April 2004 21:56 (nineteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 30 April 2004 21:58 (nineteen years ago) link
I have never myself said I was sure of WS' full authorship of the Folio texts. It is not that fact itself, but more the way Powell seems to be taking the stand; i.e. making it a class issue.
― Tom May (Tom May), Friday, 30 April 2004 22:09 (nineteen years ago) link
― de, Friday, 30 April 2004 22:15 (nineteen years ago) link
― de, Friday, 30 April 2004 23:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― thesplooge (thesplooge), Saturday, 1 May 2004 11:36 (nineteen years ago) link
I would advise everyone who has been defending Clapton's comments on the grounds that he was drunk to check out my thread over on ILE on the subject of drunken utterances:
It Must've Come from Somewhere!
I think I only like one thing by Clapton - Blind Faith "Can't Find My Way Home"...did he write that, or was it written by S. Winwood?
Hated Cream, hated his solo career, hated his boring guitar playing style, hated the way he's been bankrolled by his cover versions whilst all the time somehow taking the credit- Marley, Dylan, Greg Philinganes (sp.)....
Losing a child is always tragic; cashing in on the fact that you've lost one through a record is unforgiveable. It doesn't help that the song is totally dire, of course, but Clapton prolly doesn't care - he's laughing all the way to the bank, people are buying the record because of their sympathy, their empathy. Ker-ching!
― MarkH (MarkH), Saturday, 1 May 2004 11:52 (nineteen years ago) link
(thanks fer the link tho, MarkH, will check it out)
― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Saturday, 1 May 2004 22:28 (nineteen years ago) link
Hey, for the non-anglophile, could someone give me a hint as to what Enoch Powell stood for/did in the 70s and what Clapton said to align himself with him? While Marcello summed up the Uncut comments, no one's really said what he did in the first place. Was it just a dumb, disingenuous "the blacks will be better off if they don't come here at all" comment?
― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Sunday, 2 May 2004 04:20 (nineteen years ago) link
There was an episode of "Mr. Show" where they made fun of this. It was great.
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 2 May 2004 06:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― ENRQ (Enrique), Thursday, 6 May 2004 05:42 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 6 May 2004 09:01 (nineteen years ago) link
Everything else OTM.
― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 6 May 2004 09:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 6 May 2004 09:16 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 6 May 2004 09:17 (nineteen years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 6 May 2004 09:20 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 6 May 2004 09:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 6 May 2004 09:25 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 6 May 2004 09:27 (nineteen years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 6 May 2004 09:30 (nineteen years ago) link
― Paul O. Wright, Monday, 2 January 2006 15:39 (eighteen years ago) link
I know this is a thread about Eric Clapton and what kind of racist he might be, but what was the purpose of qualifying 'cleaning lady' with 'Puerto Rican' in that statement? Does it mean that the fact that she is Puerto Rican contributes to her being dumb?
If so, isn't this whole thread a case of the pot calling the kettle... err... black?
Back on the Eric Clapton-racist issue, I'm a darkie and a fan of some of his music. He is a deeply flawed and stubborn person, which makes him a good bluesman.
I think some of the following facts are of interest when considering his Enoch Powell remarks:
1. In 1967 in an interview with Rolling Stone, he stated that he's uncomfortable with the idea that people concern themselves with his views on anything other than music as that is all he knows anything about.
2. He lives in Antigua in the Caribbean for most of the year (surrounded by darkies), where he founded and still runs the Crossroads drug & alcohol rehabilitation centre - and offers heavily subsidised treatment for local Antiguans.
3. One of his best friends was George Harrison, possibly the least racist person ever born.
4. He once made the following remark when asked about Hendrix in the late 60s: "everyone and his brother knows that spades have big dicks". Does that reveal some kind of insecurity not only about his playing (which was widely publicized) but in sexual matters too? His early goal as a guitarist, he has revealed on many occasions, was to sound like a black guitar player - and until Hendrix's arrival in London, Clapton did the best impersonation of one. Then with Hendrix on the scene, he though 'who needs an impersonation now that they have the real thing?'. The stupid thing about this was that Hendrix came to London specifically to meet Clapton, a hero of his. Clapton soon overcame his insecurity enough for the two of them to become great friends.
5. Clapton loves black music (obviously), and not just the blues, but rock n' roll, rhythm n' blues, soul, reggae and some jazz.
6. He's been out with black women, including Naomi Campbell - as people above have pointed out.
7. For the past 20 years, most of his band has been black.
8. When he first arrived in America, touring with Cream, he spent the entire trip speaking in a faux Southern cotton-picker accent.
9. He was a junkie.
10. He was an alcoholic.
11. He quit every band he was ever in as they were getting big or bigger (even Cream).
12. The best music he did was pre-heroin.
12. He was best friends with George Harrison but that didn't stop him from 'stealing' his wife.
13. He married George Harrison's mrs only when his manager informed him that was what he was doing as it would be good for his image at the time.
14. He treated Patti Boyd (Harrison's ex) like crap the whole time they were married, and only began to regret it after they were divorced.
15. I think the most interesting thing about his Enoch Powell comments is that he's done a complete turn-around to explain what he meant by his comments. I think that's better than an apology in a way because it shows how wrong he thinks 'the keep Britain white' mentality is.
― Syd Knee, Friday, 10 February 2006 10:56 (eighteen years ago) link
you've never met ethan trife.
― The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Friday, 10 February 2006 11:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― Richard Armstrong, Friday, 26 May 2006 22:01 (seventeen years ago) link
http://dangerousminds.net/comments/eric_claptons_disgusting_racist_tirade
― pssstttt, Hey you (dog latin), Thursday, 11 April 2013 00:03 (eleven years ago) link
refers to this thread in the article.
were those quotes in that article reported at the time?
― ۩, Saturday, 3 May 2014 00:31 (nine years ago) link
Looks that way, as Rock Against Racism was formed, at least in part, in response to them:
Originally conceived as a one-off concert with a message against racism, Rock Against Racism was founded in 1976 by Red Saunders, Roger Huddle and others. According to Huddle, "it remained just an idea until August 1976" when Eric Clapton made a drunken declaration of support for former Conservative minister Enoch Powell (known for his anti-immigration Rivers of Blood speech) at a concert in Birmingham.[2] Clapton told the crowd that England had "become overcrowded" and that they should vote for Powell to stop Britain from becoming "a black colony". He also told the audience that Britain should "get the foreigners out, get the wogs out, get the coons out", and then he repeatedly shouted the National Front slogan "Keep Britain White".[3][4]Huddle, Saunders and two members of Kartoon Klowns responded by writing a letter to NME expressing their opposition to Clapton's comments, which they claimed were "all the more disgusting because he had his first hit with a cover of reggae star Bob Marley's "I Shot the Sheriff" ... Come on Eric... Own up. Half your music is black. Who shot the Sheriff, Eric? It sure as hell wasn't you!". At the end of the letter, they called for people to help form a movement called Rock Against Racism, and they report that they received hundreds of replies.[2]
Huddle, Saunders and two members of Kartoon Klowns responded by writing a letter to NME expressing their opposition to Clapton's comments, which they claimed were "all the more disgusting because he had his first hit with a cover of reggae star Bob Marley's "I Shot the Sheriff" ... Come on Eric... Own up. Half your music is black. Who shot the Sheriff, Eric? It sure as hell wasn't you!". At the end of the letter, they called for people to help form a movement called Rock Against Racism, and they report that they received hundreds of replies.[2]
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Saturday, 3 May 2014 00:44 (nine years ago) link