Wesley Willis R.I.P.

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http://www.alternativetentacles.com/news.php?sd=U44fjr6Wacz8tU5CycQ#165

08/22/03: Rock Star Wesley Willis Dead at 40

Dear Friends and fellow Wesleynauts,
We are deeply saddened to report that one of our artists, Wesley Willis passed away yesterday, Thursday, August 21st. Wesley will be greatly missed by all that had the privilege to know him, as well as the fans who have been fortunate enough to experience his genius.

Wesley was diagnosed with Chronic Myelogenous Leukemia (CML) at the end of 2002, and had to undergo emergency surgery on June 2nd to identify the source of, and to suppress internal bleeding. It is not clear if this bleeding was related to his leukemia or not, and the exact cause of death is still unknown. Wesley had been recovering at a Hospice in Illinois, and since the surgery his health had deteriorated rapidly.

His songs were simultaneously disturbing, hilarious, blunt, and intoxicating. Wesley's sheer excitement and unaffected honesty about every cultural phenomenon, defined his music as truly individual, and truly punk rock.

Wesley released well over 50 albums - 3 of which are on Alternative Tentacles, and a 4th, entitled, Wesley Willis Greatest Hits Vol. 3 (CD) had already been scheduled for release in October of this year.

For more information on Chronic Myelogenous Leukemia, please visit http://leukemia-lymphoma.org .

Currently there are no plans for any funeral service but we will inform you if there will be.

― Sam J. (samjeff), Friday, 22 August 2003 17:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Sad. My friend Dan made a documentary about WW & I think they became buds, I imagine he'll be feeling pretty low today...

― s1utsky (slutsky), Friday, 22 August 2003 17:05 (twenty-two years ago)

wow, RIP

― dleone (dleone), Friday, 22 August 2003 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Given all the crap that swirled around him and his own situation, I pretty much hope that he was at some sort of peace at the end, and that he really did find some peace along the way with all that performing.

And I will still say that "Rock 'n' Roll McDonalds" is great.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 22 August 2003 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Holy shit dude. Fuck. What the fuck I'm seriously about to cry, this is not cool! I served him a "toona fish sammich", I headbutted this man...

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 22 August 2003 17:09 (twenty-two years ago)

If y'all don't mind, I'd kinda like to put some of his artwork on this thread.

http://starchild.streams.com/starchild/wesley/copcar.gif

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 22 August 2003 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

His headbutts will be missed.. Seriously.

― Dale the Titled (cprek), Friday, 22 August 2003 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Saw him w/ the Country Teasers in '01. One of the strangest nights of my life, for many reasons, but that's a fucking shame. RIP.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Friday, 22 August 2003 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

NO. THIS IS A LIE. WESLEY IS NOT DEAD. COULDNT BE. NOOOOOOOO!

― Spinktor the Unmerciful (mawill5), Friday, 22 August 2003 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.focalart.com/images/Willis002.jpg

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 22 August 2003 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I saw him with Action Patrol back in '00...and again like 2 years ago in Austin. Truely magical evening.

I will definately tip a 40oz tonight in his honor.

― Spinktor the Unmerciful (mawill5), Friday, 22 August 2003 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I think I'll put some HP Sauce on my dick.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Friday, 22 August 2003 17:17 (twenty-two years ago)

What do you think the chances are of WW getting a shoutout on a magazine? Or do you think they are going to "Joe Strummer" him?

(And by "joe strummering" i mean totally ignore his significant contributions to music)

― Spinktor the Unmerciful (mawill5), Friday, 22 August 2003 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

ha ha

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 22 August 2003 17:26 (twenty-two years ago)

(sorry, i know it's not good to laugh on an RIP thread, but that last statement is indefensible.)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 22 August 2003 17:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Whatever, dude...Wesley was right up there with such influential mofos as Elvis, Roy Orbison, David Lee Roth, and John Lennon.

― Spinktor the Unmerciful (mawill5), Friday, 22 August 2003 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)

his music was awful, i always felt unclean when people would put it on at high school parties. his art was actually pretty good as you can see above (although he signed his name in foot-high letters half the time, somewhat mitigating their prettiness). he seemed like a genial guy who maybe wasn't getting the right kind of attention. he head-butted me once and was very gentle about it.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 22 August 2003 17:32 (twenty-two years ago)

sometimes you rocked and sometimes you rolled...

bummer man. bummer. we be sure to suck a llama's dick tonight...
m.

― msp, Friday, 22 August 2003 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

btw i worry about the two buses in that picture. are they going to collide?

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 22 August 2003 17:37 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe there's a stoplight out of view, like a great cosmic one.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 22 August 2003 17:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Rock Over London Rock On Chicago RIP Wesley

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 22 August 2003 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

btw i worry about the two buses in that picture. are they going to collide?
they're clearing not headed toward each other, and the one on the left isn't showing its brake lights, so I don't think you have to worry.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Friday, 22 August 2003 17:56 (twenty-two years ago)

i heard he was beat up

― chaki (chaki), Friday, 22 August 2003 18:28 (twenty-two years ago)

playing/talking with this dude was probably the highlight of my year so far.what a great guy.

― juiceboxxx (juiceboxxx), Friday, 22 August 2003 18:36 (twenty-two years ago)

In the UK, to "Joe Strummer" someone means to 'out' them as a secretly middle class person

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Friday, 22 August 2003 18:52 (twenty-two years ago)

first off, RIP and all that. but ive always thought he was just like daniel johnston...except without any talent. and i though it was disgusting seeing people paid so much attention to him and pretended he had talent when they were really just laughing at him.

― tom cleveland (tom cleveland), Friday, 22 August 2003 18:55 (twenty-two years ago)

strangely, i listened to heavy vegetable's "song for wesley" on my way out the door today.

RIP

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 22 August 2003 19:01 (twenty-two years ago)

oh my god. RIP.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Friday, 22 August 2003 19:57 (twenty-two years ago)

RIP

(for the record, I don't think a RIP thread is a very good place to have a critical discussion, pro or anti)

― hstencil, Friday, 22 August 2003 19:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Fuck the haters, Wesley was a rockstar in Jesus' name.

Godspeed Wes.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:02 (twenty-two years ago)

so hstencil the posts should simply consist of "RIP"?

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

This news has really made me miserable. I just saw a live clip of "She Loves Me Truly" on mtv.com and I almost cried.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Friday, 22 August 2003 20:15 (twenty-two years ago)

amateurist the posts could maybe be hold whatever respectful messages anybody wanted to write, but not be filled with...

oh fuck it, you're an adult, why can't you figure it out as to why that's a bad idea?

― hstencil, Friday, 22 August 2003 20:17 (twenty-two years ago)

am I'm pretty sure there's are other Wesley Willis threads to do the CoD disscussion. I don't think it's to unfair to suggest that maybe 'he suckt anyway' isn't maybe the best response to news of someone's death.

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

unless ur talking about gg allin

― chaki (chaki), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I misspelt "too"

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:31 (twenty-two years ago)

i agree that if there are people here that knew him personally it's wise to save assessments of his music for another time.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:32 (twenty-two years ago)

grieving in public for someone you knew is a bad idea.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:32 (twenty-two years ago)

that puts to kibosh on encomiums in the new york times.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:35 (twenty-two years ago)

the kibosh

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think this thread is the proper place for discussing whether grieving is a "bad idea" or not, either.

― hstencil, Friday, 22 August 2003 20:36 (twenty-two years ago)

hstencil i know this may come as a shock but did it ever occur to you that no one really gives a rats ass what you think is a good idea? (p.s. you're doing a pretty good job of derailing it yourself, as usual.)

"thanks, mom."

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

well as long as the thread's ruined, here goes: go fuck yourself, jess. Unless you'd rather lament other people telling you what to do while you tell other people what to do, that is.

― hstencil, Friday, 22 August 2003 20:39 (twenty-two years ago)

btw i worry about the two buses in that picture. are they going to collide?

they're clearing not headed toward each other, and the one on the left isn't showing its brake lights, so I don't think you have to worry.

Wesley's eye for the Pynchonesque messages encoded in CTA timetables is what got me over the lump he left on my forehead. Whenever I'm gripped by the chill that accompanies seeing a bus pulled up on every side of a 4-way intersection, I think immediately of the man.

RIP.

― brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:40 (twenty-two years ago)

(stence, i don't know what your problem is these days ("these days" ha ha) - caught an std on tour, pissed off about that piddling tour diary bullshit - but GET OFF MY DICK, chumpy. it's just getting tedious now. ilm seriously needs many things, but not a den mother.)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:42 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/oliphant/thoa048.jpg

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

(I didn't have the guts to say it, but there ya go.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:49 (twenty-two years ago)

(whatever jess. If you or amateurist or anybody else can't hold off expressing vitriol in a thread that's about somebody dying, then clearly anything I write chiding y'all for it is going to be ineffective. That said, grow the fuck up and show some goddamn respect for once in your measly life while you still have life. The guy's dead - what any of us think about his music is irrelevant.)

― hstencil, Friday, 22 August 2003 20:50 (twenty-two years ago)

thanks mom.

how many guys died today who didn't make music? why aren't we discussing them? on i love music?

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:51 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean, he didn't make wrought iron bedframes, but if he did, i think the value of his work would probably be important for him to get a mention or not on i love bedframes when he died.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:52 (twenty-two years ago)

that's bullshit and you know it.

― hstencil, Friday, 22 August 2003 20:52 (twenty-two years ago)

No way... he was on tour as little as like a year ago. Less.

― David Allen, Friday, 22 August 2003 20:53 (twenty-two years ago)

a possible counterargument: we wouldn't have heard of him w/o his making music, and indeed much of his notoriety (if not ALL of it) comes from his music being so divisive. (if you happen to have lived in chicago and haunted record stores or worked in the mental health industry in a certain period, i suppose you could have known willis in another way.) i think my comment was rather tame, and i found nice things to say about him after all. i wasn't sure where or if i fouled up in that regard.

x-posts galore

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:53 (twenty-two years ago)

also what harm are we doing by speaking sincerely about our impressions of his music on this little obscure thread of a messgae board? certainly if a public figure like ronald reagan died tomorrow it wouldn't be seen as disrespectful to suggest that his politics were for the birds...?

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:55 (twenty-two years ago)

stence how do you feel about idi amin?

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

haha x-post

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I dunno, jess, did Wesley Willis ever KILL ANYONE with his music?

― hstencil, Friday, 22 August 2003 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

actually on 20 seconds' reflection i guess the political analogies might confuse the situation. certainly wesley never did anyone any real harm, like amin or reagan. so i retract that.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

whoah. crosspost.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

am otm in his (second to) last point, obviously. none of us are going out and scrawling WESLEY WILLIS SUCKS OVER LONDON outside the funeral.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:58 (twenty-two years ago)

(also, when i die, people are free to react however they want, including scrawling JESS SUXX HE R ALL DEAD in 50 foot letters outside my funeral. i fully expect it in fact.)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Wesley Willis R.I.P.
http://www.alternativetentacles.com/news.php?sd=U44fjr6Wacz8tU5CycQ#165
08/22/03: Rock Star Wesley Willis Dead at 40
Dear Friends and fellow Wesleynauts,
We are deeply saddened to report that one of our artists, Wesley Willis passed away yesterday, Thursday, August 21st. Wesley will be greatly missed by all that had the privilege to know him, as well as the fans who have been fortunate enough to experience his genius.
Wesley was diagnosed with Chronic Myelogenous Leukemia (CML) at the end of 2002, and had to undergo emergency surgery on June 2nd to identify the source of, and to suppress internal bleeding. It is not clear if this bleeding was related to his leukemia or not, and the exact cause of death is still unknown. Wesley had been recovering at a Hospice in Illinois, and since the surgery his health had deteriorated rapidly.
His songs were simultaneously disturbing, hilarious, blunt, and intoxicating. Wesley's sheer excitement and unaffected honesty about every cultural phenomenon, defined his music as truly individual, and truly punk rock.
Wesley released well over 50 albums - 3 of which are on Alternative Tentacles, and a 4th, entitled, Wesley Willis Greatest Hits Vol. 3 (CD) had already been scheduled for release in October of this year.
For more information on Chronic Myelogenous Leukemia, please visit http://leukemia-lymphoma.org .
Currently there are no plans for any funeral service but we will inform you if there will be.
-- Sam J. (xp75hid0...) (webmail), August 22nd, 2003 8:02 AM. (samjeff) (later) (link)
Answers
RIP
-- s1utsky (parrisactava...) (webmail), August 22nd, 2003 8:05 AM. (slutsky) (later) (link)
RIP
-- dleone (d_leon...) (webmail), August 22nd, 2003 8:06 AM. (dleone) (later) (link)
RIP
-- Ned Raggett (ne...) (webmail), August 22nd, 2003 8:07 AM. (Ned) (later) (link)
RIP
-- nickalicious (nza2342...) (webmail), August 22nd, 2003 8:09 AM. (nickalicious) (later) (link)
RIP
-- nickalicious (nza2342...) (webmail), August 22nd, 2003 8:12 AM. (nickalicious) (later) (link)
RIP
-- Dale the Titled (cpre...) (webmail), August 22nd, 2003 8:12 AM. (cprek) (later) (link)
RIP
-- Horace Mann (handsomishbo...) (webmail), August 22nd, 2003 8:12 AM. (Horace Mann) (later) (link)
RIP
-- Spinktor the Unmerciful (kentuckysharkwhiske...) (webmail), August 22nd, 2003 8:13 AM. (mawill5) (later) (link)

RIP
-- Spinktor the Unmerciful (kentuckysharkwhiske...) (webmail), August 22nd, 2003 8:15 AM. (mawill5) (later) (link)
RIP
-- Horace Mann (handsomishbo...) (webmail), August 22nd, 2003 8:17 AM. (Horace Mann) (later) (link)
RIP
-- Spinktor the Unmerciful (kentuckysharkwhiske...) (webmail), August 22nd, 2003 8:23 AM. (mawill5) (later) (link)

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 22 August 2003 21:00 (twenty-two years ago)

either wesley willis made art or he didn't. if he did, then in his death assessment of that body of work is not only inevitable but necessary. (okay, maybe not in his case. but people didn't lock all extant information on picasso in a vault when the old guy finally kicked, never to be unearthed again.)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 22 August 2003 21:01 (twenty-two years ago)

assessment is fine, I just don't think its a good idea on a thread where people (myself included) are getting their first news about his death.

― hstencil, Friday, 22 August 2003 21:02 (twenty-two years ago)

and yes, i guarantee that obits for celebrities and artists WITHIN DAYS OF THEIR DEATHS contain even minor, piddling examination of their work and its context.

(x-post.)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 22 August 2003 21:03 (twenty-two years ago)

this thread isn't an obituary.

― hstencil, Friday, 22 August 2003 21:05 (twenty-two years ago)

what concerns me is that the first few posts DID contain assessments of Wesley's work, only they were glowingly positive ones. is this simply a case where if you don't have anything nice to say...etc. i'd buy that if that's what you are actually saying.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 22 August 2003 21:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd understand umbrage if this had turned into a big Willis hate-fest, which would probably be inappropriate. But expressing regret and also adding that one didn't like his music, what's really the problem with that?

― s1utsky (slutsky), Friday, 22 August 2003 21:15 (twenty-two years ago)

its just kinda insensitive to really rip on someone (even if it is just for their art) less than 24 hours after they died.but i guess people have the right to say it,but i would just give it some time if i had some really negative critical comments to say about the dude (which i pretty much dont)

― juiceboxxx (juiceboxxx), Friday, 22 August 2003 21:17 (twenty-two years ago)

None of this matters, no point in arguments. The man is dead. Mourning time.

― Spinktor the Unmerciful (mawill5), Friday, 22 August 2003 21:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Wesley was a good person. Wesley made some fun music. Wesley had psychological problems. The world was better with Wesley in it.

go fuck yourself, jess.

Seconded.

― J (Jay), Friday, 22 August 2003 21:18 (twenty-two years ago)

What a respectful post.

― s1utsky (slutsky), Friday, 22 August 2003 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

where in godsname has anyone expressed really critical opinions on wesley willis or his music on this thread?!

this is fucking madness.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 22 August 2003 21:23 (twenty-two years ago)

i think perhaps hstencil was trying to stave off critical opinions. the problem is that they had already been expressed, only on the positive tip.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 22 August 2003 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

this is like attack of mentalist novelty rockers.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 22 August 2003 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

no one is condemning your dead genius!

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 22 August 2003 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, I'm more in agreement with jess and amt about whether critical opinions should be offered on this thread. I just think he's being a c*nt about it.

― J (Jay), Friday, 22 August 2003 21:26 (twenty-two years ago)

just let it go dude!

― s1utsky (slutsky), Friday, 22 August 2003 21:27 (twenty-two years ago)

it's gone.

― J (Jay), Friday, 22 August 2003 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

also i know wesley could be really nice but something about the "ah wesley floating in the sky, so sweet, so soft" (a perhaps-unfair exaggeration for effect) strikes me as condescending. just how my friend's down-syndrome son is taken to be super-sweet and friendly when he is being nice and beneficent and the minute he acts up or starts freaking out it's the syndrome acting through him. the mentally ill should not be supposed to be cut off from their anger.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 22 August 2003 21:30 (twenty-two years ago)

ok never mind that post i've instantly regretted making it.

sorry...

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 22 August 2003 21:30 (twenty-two years ago)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: WESLEY WILLIS 1963-2003
A letter from one of his biggest fans, Jello Biafra:

We lost Wesley Willis some time before 9PM Chicago time August 21, 2003. Word is he died peacefully. The likely cause may be heart failure. Wes had been battling leukemia for less than a year.

No services are planned as of yet. There will probably be a memorial concert, or at least a gathering in his honor in Chicago in the near future. We will let you know.

Wesley will go down as one of the most unique songwriters and entertainment personalities in history. His music, lyrics, drawings, insight and the way he put them together are like no one else. Ever. There will never be another.

As I got to know Wes, what really struck me was his sheer will power, his unrelenting drive to succeed and over come his horrifically poor background, child abuse, racism, chronic schizophrenia and obesity among other things. He was the most courageous person I have ever known.

Yet through it all he had such a deep, all-encompassing love of life. Little things, big things. He loved bus rides. He loved watching trains. He loved writing songs about how much he loved his friends. He loved travelling to new towns so he could headbutt new friends. Is there any band he saw that escaped being in their own song about how much he loved their show? He was so warm, so sweet, so giving. He could be a handful when he came to visit; but as soon as he left, wed miss him immediately.

As his long time friend Dennis Cooper said, "No More Demons." The voices in Wesleys head cant yell at him and put him down any more.

Wes was deeply religious. He was afraid that if he died he would no longer get to go see bands play. If there is a hereafter I hope hes right up front as Jimi Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughn, his beloved Otis Redding and his dear friend Bradley from Sublime "storm the stage" as the crowd "roars like a sea monster."

All opening for Wesley, of course.

It will be hard now that hes gone, but Im not going to let myself stop enjoying the funny stuff, or the look on peoples faces when they first hear "Rock n Roll McDonalds," or the memories of the good times and Wesleys many adventures. He wouldnt want it any other way.

There are many down times when all I have to do is think of one of Wess songs, something he said or simply marvel at his Wesley-isms, and the clouds part and a smile comes to my face. I think he does that for a lot of people. He always will.

Rock over London
Rock on Chicago
Sail on, Wes. I love you.

Jello Biafra
8-22-03

― chaki (chaki), Friday, 22 August 2003 21:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Wesley is now head-butting God. Chicago is a colder town w/o him.

It pays to discover.

RIP.

― nonthings (nonthings), Friday, 22 August 2003 21:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Personally, I feel you should say what you feel about Wesley. This is a celebration of his life, only, not. And his art was a part of his life... like it or not. I don't find anything really offensive, unless the message includes any of these:

OTM
grebt
"something something in something, shockah!"
or "x-post"

Then I get offended.

― David Allen, Friday, 22 August 2003 21:49 (twenty-two years ago)

this is really turning into everybody's soapbox thread for some reason

― s1utsky (slutsky), Friday, 22 August 2003 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

michael medved to thread!

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 22 August 2003 22:07 (twenty-two years ago)

why are "x-post", "otm", or "grebt" offensive?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 22 August 2003 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

shit. i booked him for a show a long time ago. he was a really nice dude. RIP wesley.

― geeta, Saturday, 23 August 2003 01:13 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread is going on the reel.

― dleone (dleone), Saturday, 23 August 2003 01:29 (twenty-two years ago)

so from ive gathered he seems to have been upheld as a sort of trophy victory for indie white supremicism??

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 23 August 2003 01:44 (twenty-two years ago)

For what it´s worth, if someone´s to have a derisive and ill-meaning attitude towards something so harmless, that someone´s a pretty sordid motherfucker any way you cut it. I can honestly say Wesley´s music made me laugh WITH him, and not the other way around. Regardless of the whole exploitation angle, the music still cheered me up, because underneath it all, (WAIT FOR IT) HIS motives were fuckin´ pure, maaaan.

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Saturday, 23 August 2003 01:49 (twenty-two years ago)

'we found an insane black guy to care about 'rock' and we call him a 'singer-songwriter'!! dont worry though hes not TOO white, he still sings about crazy shit and is stupider than us so we can dehumanize him!!' seriously all the RIPs in this thread make him sound like a fucking household pet or something

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 23 August 2003 01:52 (twenty-two years ago)

xpost, which has only added to the list...'and his motives were so PURE!! theyre such a simple people, maybe we could learn something from them....'

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 23 August 2003 01:54 (twenty-two years ago)

'His songs were simultaneously disturbing, hilarious, blunt, and intoxicating.' = 'we actually really could not think of one word to descibe him that isnt a racist noble savage-ism'

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 23 August 2003 02:01 (twenty-two years ago)

trife you have Punk'd this thread

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 23 August 2003 02:23 (twenty-two years ago)

what does that mean?? btw i mean no disrespect to wesley willis, who ive never heard, but fuck the industry and his point-and-laugh 'fans'

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 23 August 2003 02:32 (twenty-two years ago)

god damn, trife. what do you want people to say? what is so wrong with rip? there are people on this thread who met wesley and truly liked him as a fucking person. god. i dont even know what to say, so i will say R.I.P. his music brightened my day numerous times, so thats what i owe him.

― todd swiss (eliti), Saturday, 23 August 2003 03:05 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah i didnt mean to sound so confrontational to ppl on this thread, im truly sorry if i did, and i wouldnt have said anything if the debate hadnt already been sparked by the iron man/dr doom teamup of jess and amateurist, but the exploitational and condescending bullshit surrounding wesley willis is here in full effect and its something that bothers me more than almost any other specific issue within modern music, and especially the tenets of 'indie music' which i generally find to be simply boring and harmlessly ascetic but, with wesley willis, crossed the line to actively harmful

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 23 August 2003 03:15 (twenty-two years ago)

i think i misused 'tenets' there, i was trying to say its their steez

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 23 August 2003 03:19 (twenty-two years ago)

trife you're the most condescending person on this thread!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 23 August 2003 03:20 (twenty-two years ago)

blount you did see that this thread has jello biafra saying mentally ill ppl are 'courageous', right??

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 23 August 2003 03:23 (twenty-two years ago)

the horror!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 23 August 2003 03:26 (twenty-two years ago)

no i meant what i said about being sorry for bumrushing it like that, i really am!! i was sorta on autopilot but it is kinda sickening to see all the 'he was truly punk rock with his fat black crazy lyrics!! hes headbutting up in heaven now' posts though

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 23 August 2003 03:26 (twenty-two years ago)

who used the phrase "fat black crazy"?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 23 August 2003 03:27 (twenty-two years ago)

when i played the the dude,his manager/caretaker seemed to genuely respect and care for him, and the crowd at the show seemed to not be the slightest cruel,but i dont know,maybe that was my perception.im not denying that theres a certain level of explotation on wesley,but if he wasnt doing music,he probably would of remained homeless for his entire life.when its all said and done,i think that doing music did a lot more good than harm for the man.

― juiceboxxx (juiceboxxx), Saturday, 23 August 2003 03:28 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean im saddened that he died, and that his life was considered a cruel joke to so many ppl, im not going to paint the fans on this thread with that brush but blount if you want to go into defending the conceptions about race, obesity, and mental illness, that created the cult of wesley willis, please do

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 23 August 2003 03:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean the sentiments on this thread don't seem any more or less condescending than on any other RIP, with the exception of a handful of posters who think that to acknowledge the mentally ill at all it inevitably involves condescension (see also: indie rock's attitude toward black culture - 'we don't wanna be disrespectful so it's best to just not engage at all')

― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 23 August 2003 03:30 (twenty-two years ago)

no i agree totally, ive got a lot of baggage coming into this thread and im probably talking about things that arent actually explicitly said here

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 23 August 2003 03:33 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, I mean there's enough bullshit around here to get riled up about for people to get so angry about people saying RIP.

― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 23 August 2003 03:38 (twenty-two years ago)

hey blount did i email you last night? i emailed MARCELLO for some reason!!

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 23 August 2003 03:41 (twenty-two years ago)

haha - why in god's name would you do that???

― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 23 August 2003 03:43 (twenty-two years ago)

haha - I once wrote something in flagpole comparing momus and wesley willis (I once also wrote a feature on willis I wince at now, particularly since parts of it confirm in the worst way some of your accusations)(ie. I quote fucking Macbeth)

― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 23 August 2003 03:45 (twenty-two years ago)

blount please stop me from quoting faulkner in my bubba sparxxx feature

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 23 August 2003 03:47 (twenty-two years ago)

haha - "madam, I was the corncob"

― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 23 August 2003 03:51 (twenty-two years ago)

bubba is a kinda wesley willis-style novelty for black ppl, especially in atl

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 23 August 2003 03:58 (twenty-two years ago)

dont fuck with that faulknerian idiot manchild when he gets to doing his hillbilly dance!!

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 23 August 2003 03:58 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry i just realized that sweeping generalization is based on only one person, though in the rap game he still is sorta a joke

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 23 August 2003 04:01 (twenty-two years ago)

also black ppl, when not taking bubba sparxxx seriously, drive a car like THIS

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 23 August 2003 04:01 (twenty-two years ago)

women be shopping!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 23 August 2003 04:03 (twenty-two years ago)

RIP vs. critical discussion = dumbest argument in ILM history

― some guy, Saturday, 23 August 2003 18:20 (twenty-two years ago)

the anonymous pussbag has spoken, folx. nothing more to see here.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 23 August 2003 18:34 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread has destroyed some of the last shreds of respect I might have had for a couple of you people. God fucking damn it.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Saturday, 23 August 2003 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

we bleed.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 23 August 2003 22:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Did your mother give birth to all fuckwits Jess, or just you?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 23 August 2003 22:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Just saw my friend, the one who'd made the documentary on Wesley Willis. He sad he last spoke to him three weeks ago, on the phone, and though Willis usually wasn't very good at the phone thing, this time he was totally lucid and seemed really happy.

― s1utsky (slutsky), Saturday, 23 August 2003 22:29 (twenty-two years ago)

dom, the fact that people who listened to something like wesley willis for pleasure hate me is a fact i don't think will cause me much distress when i go to bed at night or wake up and take a look in that mirror tomorrow.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 24 August 2003 02:44 (twenty-two years ago)

oh come on jess you heartless bastard!! what, youre too good to laugh at a schizophrenic?

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 24 August 2003 02:54 (twenty-two years ago)

hey trife let's go "rock out" to barenaked ladies, shitty jam rock bands, and "left-field" hip-hop while drinking wine coolers in our parents basement.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 24 August 2003 02:56 (twenty-two years ago)

nah jess stratch those awesome plans and check out this hilarious retard i found!! hes singing a song about kicking batmans ass!! this is even better than that time we date-raped those girls to mc hawking!!

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 24 August 2003 03:05 (twenty-two years ago)

whenever i see dom post i think of two things, 1) constant sickening misogyny and barely-supressed rage, the kind that leads ppl to pointlessly go off on teenpop like a fucking psychopath 2) favorite rap album is the arsonists, which is kinda more terrifying than the first thing

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 24 August 2003 03:07 (twenty-two years ago)

really his posts about any female pop artist are practically indistinguishable from calum though actually a lot creepier, its all kylie you suck you fuckin bitch thats right you suck right SUCK ON IT BITCH YOU SLUT YOU WHORE man i hate black ppl but i love non phixion!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 24 August 2003 03:11 (twenty-two years ago)

im sorry i didnt mean to imply dom was a racist, he only hates black people with big lips

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 24 August 2003 03:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Stellar.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 24 August 2003 03:29 (twenty-two years ago)

tom delete humanity plz

― cinniblount (James Blount), Sunday, 24 August 2003 03:30 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry i went overboard i obv have some 'issues' w dom too, i was gonna paste the rappers w big lips thread for context but decided not to

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 24 August 2003 03:32 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't have any issues with dom; i just find him unconscionable.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 24 August 2003 03:35 (twenty-two years ago)

my 'issues' mostly involve me staring horrified at his posts

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 24 August 2003 03:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I´m a little late, but with all due respect, Ethan, FUCK OFF. Quit being such an prejudiced asshole. Are you so dense you can´t see how you´re the one making this into a "race" issue? What the fuck? You don´t know me. I´m just a name to you. I could be black for all you know. Are you implying that because you´re a hip hop head it entitles you to judge what is and is not a caricature of a legitimate black artist? Oh, that´s right, you´re blacker than thou. People who listen to Wesley Willis and enjoy it *MUST* be deriving some perverse pleasure out of it. Why do you need to assert yourself and your credibility through this whole bullshit "evil white man" act? Yeah, he was sick. Yeah, he sang about kicking Batman´s ass, and I happen to think it badass. I like that kind of ridiculous shit. Deal with your issues first, dude. Then worry about what others listen to and their reasons for it. Don´t take me the wrong way, though. I happen to be a fan of your writing, actually, and think you´re a pretty clever guy, but that stupid little comment you posted up there just made me go off. So don´t take (much) offense.

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Sunday, 24 August 2003 03:42 (twenty-two years ago)

remember when we were debating whether it was proper or not to say you didn't really like wesley willis's music on this thread?

― s1utsky (slutsky), Sunday, 24 August 2003 03:50 (twenty-two years ago)

no.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 24 August 2003 03:53 (twenty-two years ago)

yes you do!

― s1utsky (slutsky), Sunday, 24 August 2003 03:54 (twenty-two years ago)

my mind is like a sieve these days.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 24 August 2003 03:55 (twenty-two years ago)

"these days."

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 24 August 2003 03:55 (twenty-two years ago)

yo did you just google on into the 'wesley willis: name your reasons he is so bad and hated' thread?? 'Deal with your issues first, dude. Then worry about what others listen to and their reasons for it.'!?!?!

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 24 August 2003 03:56 (twenty-two years ago)

though i bet the dmb fans probably got called racists and white supremicists a lot more by bizarro nu ilm

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 24 August 2003 03:57 (twenty-two years ago)

logistical beatdowns for everyone!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 24 August 2003 03:59 (twenty-two years ago)

yay!

― s1utsky (slutsky), Sunday, 24 August 2003 04:01 (twenty-two years ago)

though i bet the dmb fans probably got called racists and white supremicists a lot more by bizarro nu ilm
-- trife (...), August 24th, 2003.

WTF?

"bizarro nu ilm"

Pretty fucking much. FUCK the mob.

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Sunday, 24 August 2003 04:43 (twenty-two years ago)

bizarro world is the planet in superman comics where everything is the total opposite of reality, i imagine many ppl on this planet share many opinions with nu ilm

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 24 August 2003 05:05 (twenty-two years ago)

just like in rand mcnally, where the hamburgers eat the people

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Sunday, 24 August 2003 05:05 (twenty-two years ago)

i genuinely like some of wesley's songs. they touch me.

― chaki (chaki), Sunday, 24 August 2003 06:19 (twenty-two years ago)

RIP

― dave q, Sunday, 24 August 2003 07:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Simon, Ethan, whatever the fuck. While I'm past the point of caring, because this three-man ILM circle jerk between you guys is one of the most depressingly shit things of all time.... howthefuckcanibearacist? I mean.... shit, my father emigrated to this country in the aftermath of Powell's "Rivers of blood" speech. Have a fucking think about that. In the direct aftermath of "Fucking foreigners coming over here stealing our jobs...", my father came to this country. My olive-skinned, non-white father. I mean, bricks through windows, racial insults, deprived jobs... THIS SHIT STILL GOES ON FOR MY FUCKING CULTURE TODAY. In 2003. So, yeah, I obviously hate non-whites, being not white myself, and having exactly the same fucking problems as they do.

I mean... would it kill you to actually think before you post?

Really?

This isn't even going into the whole concept of, being Sicilian, I'm descended from the fucking Moors. (They were black, so now James can find me cool).

The one irritating thing about the communal jerk-off the past few days... thread 1) PEOPLE DON'T LIKE BEYONCE KNOWLES BECAUSE SHE'S BLACK, YOU SAY THAT, YOU ARE A RACIST. Thread 2) PEOPLE ONLY LIKED WESLEY WILLIS BECAUSE HE WAS FUCKED IN THE SKULL. I mean... wtf? You can't randomly change your fucking world view for shits and giggles.

But, hey, that'd involve admitting you were WRONG. Why do that when you can all post three consecutive messages at a time (because you're so intelligent, your opinions can't be fitted to just one line!) filled with Ivy League smirking.

It's just fucking stupid, irritating, and wrong. That's what it is.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 24 August 2003 08:57 (twenty-two years ago)

well all R.I.P threads have usually had the mostly R.I.P type messages and this is the first one (as far as i know) that has got out of hand.

never heard of him until now but there are obv a lot of uncomfortable issues, and a lot of ppl didn't like his music but I think this is all abt timing.

I am all up for a discussion abt the artist and so on (actually I wouldn't mind if someone whose music i loved just died as its a everyone has got to go etc) but I'd like to ask some of the ppl here what's wrong with some RIP type messages. Anyone who reads this board knows that most threads won't have much for them so what's wrong with adding one more to the pile?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 24 August 2003 10:57 (twenty-two years ago)

oh and Dom, come down. you say you're past the point of caring but you went on a long rant there. these are ppl from the internet who don't know you.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 24 August 2003 11:24 (twenty-two years ago)

"Anyone who reads this board knows that most threads won't have much for them"

― thom west (thom w), Sunday, 24 August 2003 11:31 (twenty-two years ago)

well ok that wasn't quite what I meant but a lot of threads don't have much for x poster bcz the type of music discussed is diff or any other reason. Its a point that isn't that controversial surely.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 24 August 2003 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread makes me very depressed about ILM. Every thread recently that's turned ugly (cf. "Magnet Magazine") has turned me off from posting in general. Congrats, guys.

― jaymc (jaymc), Sunday, 24 August 2003 13:49 (twenty-two years ago)

um, not really: there is always one week where it goes a bit crazy.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 24 August 2003 14:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Trife´s attitude makes me angry about fucking humanity! Seriously... That kind of ass-backwards mentality is what keeps the whole friggin´ country from moving on. Oh, and btw...

Definitions of bizarre(o):
adjective: conspicuously or grossly unconventional or unusual

Swap your comic books for a dictionary and quit being an asshat.

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Sunday, 24 August 2003 15:23 (twenty-two years ago)

(i've been trying to stay out of this for obvious enough reasons, but "swap your comic books for a dictionary" makes me angry about humanity)

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Sunday, 24 August 2003 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

trife do you EVER have any original thoughts that don't involve creating elaborate strawman constructs making anyone other than yourself out to be a racist!?!? SOME OF US GENUINELY LIKED WESLEY & HIS MUSIC FUCK OFF YOU COCKFUCKER GOD DAMN IT!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Sunday, 24 August 2003 17:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I kiss you Nick

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 24 August 2003 18:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean geezuskreyest MY SON SINGS HIS SONGS! I can't go an entire day without quoting lines from his songs...FUCK YOU GUYS IN YOUR STUPID EMPTY SKULLS WITH A FUCKING RUSTY SCREWDRIVER!

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

(x-post no I kiss you Curtis!)

― nickalicious shouldn't post whilst drinking on sunday afternoons obviously (nick, Sunday, 24 August 2003 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I was not going to say anything on this thread, but what the hell...

I met Wesley Willis two times thoughout the years in Detroit. First in 1997 when he came into the Kinko's I worked at and made copies of the new songs he had written, and again a couple years later at a record store I worked at when he came into to sell some cd's.

He seemed a little off for obvious reasons but I always wished him well. He had hangers-on who were with him because of what he did rather than who he was. I never knew the guy personally but I always respected the fact that he went out there and did what he wanted to do despite all the difficulties that faced him because he was "fat black and crazy".

He might not have been a Davis/Mills/Dre/Perry, but his music brought joy into my life. He made good records because they sounded like he was having fun when he made them, and in turn you had fun when you listened to them. He had his own personal aesthetic, it might fall into outsider art/art brute/novelty but it was a style that was uniquely his. He entertained people with his rock jam music and that is what he set out to do. No matter what, Rock And Roll McDonald's is fucking genius.

Some people might have laughed at him, and some people might have cheered him on. It always made me glad to know that despite whatever challenges he faced, he made it happen. He wrote the songs, made the records, and played the tours. Good for him, before he died he probably looked back on his life knowing that he did what he wanted.

If that makes me racist, so be it.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Sunday, 24 August 2003 18:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think he is saying that his fans are racist (bar dom, but he had probs with him anyway).

''i mean im saddened that he died, and that his life was considered a cruel joke to so many ppl, im not going to paint the fans on this thread with that brush but blount if you want to go into defending the conceptions about race, obesity, and mental illness, that created the cult of wesley willis, please do''

OK what are those?

'''we found an insane black guy to care about 'rock' and we call him a 'singer-songwriter'!! dont worry though hes not TOO white, he still sings about crazy shit and is stupider than us so we can dehumanize him!!' seriously all the RIPs in this thread make him sound like a fucking household pet or something''

OK what's wrong with some of the RIPs. i mean, how does it make it him like a 'household pet'?

or maybe like nick, you might have been posting while drunk?

we need prohibition back ppl otherwise this board is fucked ;)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 24 August 2003 18:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Some people might have laughed at him, and some people might have cheered him on.
It looks like WW is a hard guy to compliment. You can't say something nice about him* without someone wondering what your hidden dark agenda is.
Believe it or don't, I like Wesley Willis's music because it is like surrealist comedy. It's a street poetry slam equivalent of Barnes and Barnes or Taco the Wonder Dog. Or maybe better: A garage rock version of Del the Funkee Homosapien.
The fact that he has had some "mental issues" is irrelevant to me. The only difference between what Wesley Willis did and what Robyn Hitchcock does...is that Wesley might've had a few moments where he momentarily thought he DID whup Batmans ass.
And, no, I don't find his music "disturbing" any more than I would find Jandek or Roky Erikson or...fuck...David Bowie "disturbing"; Some people have a...different...way of looking at things. And I find that to be refreshing and worth encouraging.

*Note=Check out the Willis thread I posted a month ago, and you'll see what I mean.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Sunday, 24 August 2003 18:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry if I got outta line up there.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Sunday, 24 August 2003 18:31 (twenty-two years ago)

The Wesley Willis Fiasco might have been one of the first shows I've ever seen... at the Metro in Chicago. Owell.

― phil-two (phil-two), Sunday, 24 August 2003 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

one of greatest joys was going to parties and shutting off the gino-beats and throwing on the ww.
lets' hope there's a vault somewhere just loaded with unreleased material.

― dyson (dyson), Sunday, 24 August 2003 20:19 (twenty-two years ago)

trife calls forth the strawman he attacks yet again:

"Trife´s attitude makes me angry about fucking humanity! Seriously... That kind of ass-backwards mentality is what keeps the whole friggin´ country from moving on."

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Sunday, 24 August 2003 20:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Your point, Sterling, is vague.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 24 August 2003 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Here's what I think:

It's the dog days of summer. It's hot and folks are in a bad mood. Everyone here needs a dip in the pool and some popsicles.

― some guy, Sunday, 24 August 2003 21:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Well Ned you live in Orange County so I guess yr. inured to this stuff by now.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Sunday, 24 August 2003 21:02 (twenty-two years ago)

just let it go dude, it's kind of gross how people are still trying to score points off this.

― s1utsky (slutsky), Sunday, 24 August 2003 21:06 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah come on sterl its not like its the 60s anymore, just let it go!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 24 August 2003 21:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I meant do it somewhere more appropriate, but hey, another point for you trife! congrats!

― s1utsky (slutsky), Sunday, 24 August 2003 21:09 (twenty-two years ago)

is 'point scoring' the new meaninglessly smug insult now that 'strawmen' has been completely over- and mis-used to death (memorably by nickalicious on the five mcs thread, where apparently i hate undie mcs because im a strawman, or i think the mcs are, or because i think he is one, or at least something with 'strawmen' involved which means IM WRONG), i mean if this discussion is just 'point scoring', whats your apparently higher purpose in coming in to glibly declare that to everyone? i guess youve scored the most points of all, in the same way that someone who tips over the chess board and cries 'BULLSHIT!!' has 'won' the chess game

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 24 August 2003 21:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I saw a Wesley Willis tiff on ILM. It said don't look back, you can never look back.

― some guy, Sunday, 24 August 2003 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

trife all I'm saying is that this kind of shit is not appropriate for an RIP thread! if you want to start a fight, do it somewhere else, as it's clearly upsetting people who clicked on it to pay their respects, and maybe you think that's silly, it's just a message board etc, but obviously a lot of people do take it seriously, and are sad that the man died, believe it or not! your behavior seems needlessly cruel regardless of how you justify it.

― s1utsky (slutsky), Sunday, 24 August 2003 21:34 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah i didnt start the fire, blame the trailblazing duo of strongo & amateurist, but once its been brought up i think stuff is worth actually talking about. are you saying social issues cant be discussed once someone dies? this is the logic used against war protesters

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 24 August 2003 21:43 (twenty-two years ago)

"Discussed"

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 24 August 2003 21:44 (twenty-two years ago)

of course not and you know it! I'm just saying maybe we shouldn't be fighting about it at the funeral!

(xp)

― s1utsky (slutsky), Sunday, 24 August 2003 21:44 (twenty-two years ago)

tell me about wesley willis

Wesley Willis: what is this shit?

Taking Sides: Daniel Johnston vs Wesley Willis

― achilles rizzoli (James Blount), Sunday, 24 August 2003 21:45 (twenty-two years ago)

whats your apparently higher purpose in coming in to glibly declare that to everyone?

You should know.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 24 August 2003 21:52 (twenty-two years ago)

thank you ned, thats a perfect example of what i was talking about

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 24 August 2003 21:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Trife, you're an okay guy who lives to do nothing but push buttons on everyone and everything, and who does nothing else here. I don't even think you do that to win an argument or make a point, I think you do it just for the sake of doing it, which means you're exactly equivalent to both Geir and Doomie, and in fact in the end more predictable than either. If you'd care to explain why you think that's at all interesting seeing as you've done little else over the years, I'm willing to listen and so would the rest of us. If you're going to do nothing but complain and make fun of me and point out my own shticks and flaws, then I wouldn't be in the least surprised. And if you're going to blame Jess and James again like you did above instead of looking at yourself too, then I would be even less surprised. Otherwise, all you really deserve are glib dismissals anyway, which is a pity since your ability to trash some truly blinkered attitudes in the world of Pitchfork and all is matched only by your ability to attack anyone and everyone else who doesn't happen to be you.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 24 August 2003 22:25 (twenty-two years ago)

ned i post to lots of threads besides the few where i argue with ppl, you dont read them because theyre about rap. i like ilm still, even now, because of ppl like dk and jess and blount and minna and sean g, but all those threads are usually five posts and then die. theres also a lot of ppl on ilm i dont like too much, and when i see then running all over everything and saying things i disagree with, or things that utterly repulse me, sometimes i will post stuff about this. my mood then is usually pretty mean-spirited, thats a fair enough observation and i own up to it. arguments can be fun, especially if theres a bite behind them, and but theyre also pretty reductive to ppl involved. im sorry you think all i can do is 'push buttons', ive discussed music with you before on ilm and joked with you on ile and aim, but ill be sure to not do that anymore in the future. i really actually do think youre an okay guy, not like the fake 'no offense, but...' comment you started your rant above with, but i think you probably speak for a lot of ilm ppl regarding this, so in the future i'll try to just stick to my little five post hiphop threads.

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 24 August 2003 22:54 (twenty-two years ago)

i dont know if discussion is appropriate to this thread or not, i'll leave that to others to decide, and i hadnt even heard of this person until julio pointed this thread out to me this afternoon, so maybe i shouldnt say anything here, but for what its worth, this thread has been very interesting, with everyone on good form, i think trife says some very good things on this thread, but the opposition has been spirited too

― gareth (gareth), Sunday, 24 August 2003 22:57 (twenty-two years ago)

and for what its worth, shaun imrei didnt even get an RIP thread, just david telling me about his suicide 3/4 of the way down the rave classics thread, i didnt even know, and no one said anything about it, because no one cared

― gareth (gareth), Sunday, 24 August 2003 22:58 (twenty-two years ago)

trife nobody's asking you to take your bat & ball and leave, i enjoy a lot of what you write even if i don't always understand it, maybe rein in the liberal (not in the political sense of the word) throwing around of accusations a little

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Sunday, 24 August 2003 23:01 (twenty-two years ago)

(slight x-post with Jim here)

FWIW, Trife, I don't claim to speak for anyone but myself, *and* I could easily be wrong or against the grain. I have no sense of my speaking for anyone else here, Trife, and I'd be disappointed if you leapt to that conclusion. It's true that not all your posts (or our interactions) are combative but hyperbole is something you're also intimately familiar with, which may be as deep an observation on my part as calling the sky blue, I don't know. If I overstate some things then you are just as prone to it and we'd probably be a hell of a lot better off recognizing that about each other and ourselves, I'd guess.

All I'd add to that is I do read all the threads as I can, rap ones or not. People will choose to respond to what they want to as they do, and you can't force them otherwise -- but, and now maybe I am speaking for more people than myself, perhaps some people might feel a touch more comfortable if they knew you weren't going to question their motivations, their beliefs and more besides -- rather than their musical tastes, which after all all the attacks in the world *can't* change -- for possessing a differing opinion than yours. If you think that's unfair, then I'm sorry, but you might ask yourself why that perception is there.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 24 August 2003 23:12 (twenty-two years ago)

(And I'll quickly note that I think your answers to Nickalicious just now on the five fave MCs thread are the type of thing that shows how you can both celebrate *and* argue without exploding, I agree -- and there's nothing wrong with bringing that more to the fore, I suggest.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 24 August 2003 23:17 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread makes me want to lurk. Sour taste in my mouth...ILX has almost been ruined by the arguments in this thread, in my eyes at least. Fuck. Way to fucking go!

― Spinktor the Unmerciful (mawill5), Sunday, 24 August 2003 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)

"Tomorrow and on every anniversary as long as the Happier Hunting Ground existed a postcard
would go to Mr. Joyboy: Your little Aimée is ~~wagging her tail~~ headbutting in heaven tonight, thinking of you."

Waugh to thread.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 25 August 2003 00:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm just saying maybe we shouldn't be fighting about it at the funeral!

This isn't the funeral. It's only a thread on an internet board. I think it should go where it goes.

Controversial in life, controversial in death. There's nothing wrong with that.

― some guy, Monday, 25 August 2003 00:49 (twenty-two years ago)

it's called figurative speech dude!

― s1utsky (slutsky), Monday, 25 August 2003 01:45 (twenty-two years ago)

but i got all dressed up

― chaki (chaki), Monday, 25 August 2003 02:09 (twenty-two years ago)

aw, chaki, yr precious! *pinches Chaki's lil cheek*

― Orbit (Orbit), Monday, 25 August 2003 03:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I skipped all the hatorade upthread once I had tasted it and ascertained that it was in fact fresh hatorade, everybody please be nice. I loved Wesley's stuff & had fewer of my usual exploitation-of-a-psychosis issues with it because he was so self-driven: it wasn't like people "discovered" him & set him up in public - he LIVED for going to clubs in Chicago, loved music in a way that I don't think anybody here can really claim. Having worked in mental health for years I recognized a lot of really common symptoms in his lyrics - the repetition of key figures until they drain themselves of meaning, the use of predictable/probably inscrutable formulae - but his self-released stuff just really works for me. It's no fun to have an illness like Wesley or Daniel Johnston's got (and I do think they are well-paired: people are always "oh but Daniel Johnston's got genuine" whatever, but I think that shakes out to "I prefer Daniel Johnston's psychoses to Wesley's bipolar d.o. with psychotic features"), so "rest in peace" is well put: there isn't much peace in this world for someone like Wesley. It always made me happy to see how hard he worked to find a little peace & comfort in music. I try to avoid the passive voice, but "I will miss him" seems inadequate, so I'm just gonna say "he will be missed" anyhow.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 25 August 2003 03:10 (twenty-two years ago)

perhaps some people might feel a touch more comfortable if they knew you weren't going to question their motivations, their beliefs and more besides

Can I get a witness?! I SAID Can I GET a witness?!
Woooooo!
Preach it man, right on! *spins*

― Orbit (Orbit), Monday, 25 August 2003 03:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I stopped at Intuit Gallery in Chicago yesterday, where they were showing about a dozen of Wesley's drawings from the early nineties. I hadn't seen his artwork before this thread, and the stuff at the gallery was pretty awesome. In his Chicago street scenes, the storefronts and buses are incredibly detailed, but then overtowered by blocky buildings that hit the clouds at skewed angles. It was great. Then, I talked with a guy there who'd been friends with Wesley; he seemed to be holding back tears during our entire conversation. I was glad I went. I know I said earlier that all the ugliness on this thread made me not want to post anymore, but I figured I'd fight that with another small appreciation. R.I.P., Wesley.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 25 August 2003 04:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I assume nobody in your respective CD collections has 'narcissitic personality disorder', otherwise you're all voyeurs

― r d laing, Monday, 25 August 2003 08:57 (twenty-two years ago)

''ned i post to lots of threads besides the few where i argue with ppl, you dont read them because theyre about rap. i like ilm still, even now, because of ppl like dk and jess and blount and minna and sean g, but all those threads are usually five posts and then die.''

I know what you mean trife: same with my improv threads (though there are rather less ppl that listen to improv than hip-hop) and sometimes you just surf the other threads and all of a sudden you're all in the middle of a heated arg abt something you are not as much into.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 25 August 2003 09:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I just hope that after Warren Zevon meets his maker, his obituary thread doesn't devolve into a series of random, vinctictive holy wars over flamewar-inducing abstractions.
Remember: When you start a pissing contest in a tightly closed forum, you end up with a thread that smells like a porto-potty and ILxors damp with someone elses rank body fluids.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 25 August 2003 16:50 (twenty-two years ago)

haha this thread reads like a primer on the stereotypes of each ILMer, right down to the Gareth "everyone is ok" love post.

And also right down to the "Ally in adding nothing" shockah.

Wesley RIP, I must say I think there are enough other threads that didn't go cobblers on Wesley Willis--why did this one go so bad?

― Ally-zay (mlescaut), Monday, 25 August 2003 18:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Ally's right you know. maybe this thread should be in the faq

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 25 August 2003 21:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I just read this thread because I didn't know Wesley Willis had passed away. Finding out he was gone made me sad, but reading this thread has made me even sadder.

I love Wesley Willis. He was an entertaining and creative individual who deserved a lot more peace in his lifetime than he got. He was a beautiful soul. Thanks for making me smile, man.

― The Man they call Dan (The Man they call Dan), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 01:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Did anyone notice that one of today's Yahoo headlines is: "Chicago Musician Wesley Willis Dead at 40"? I had no idea that he was so well-known.

Link...

― phil-two (phil-two), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 02:21 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...

Revive the thread and revive Willis!
God bless Wesley.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Monday, 4 October 2004 23:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Jello can be a real boring mofo, but his ode to Wesley up there is quite moving.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 4 October 2004 23:51 (twenty-one years ago)

man, i forgot how toxic this thread turned out. :(

― REFICUL!, Monday, 4 October 2004 23:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, the entire thread is this bizarre clusterfuck, though.

Heh, x-post.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 4 October 2004 23:54 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread is an amazing display of something.

― why do old people and old users of ILX such bastardos (deangulberry), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 00:01 (twenty-one years ago)

It is a sad day when Mike Taylor of all people is the voice of reason on an ilm thread...

― Disco Nihilist (mjt), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 03:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Just went back and READ the thread.
I'm a doofus for reviving this.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 04:58 (twenty-one years ago)

OK, Wesley Wills.

I downloaded a couple of tracks, but I wasn't that taken by them. I guess his back story lead me to believe the tracks would be more 'out there' than they were. In this, he reminds me of Roky Erikson, (his later stuff anyway) in that his stuff was always competent and actually lacking a little of the crazyness that a lot of artists try desperately hard to add into their stuff.

But that's the way, isn't it? Some make music to stay sane, and some make music to allow themselves to go a bit crazy.

My feeling is that Wesley Wills got what he wanted out of his music. And it's still a fine world that will allow and help people like him to do that. I have no right to judge him on a couple of tracks, even if his 'story' is that all the songs are 'the same', I actually doubt it very much. Like the Ramones are all the same? Like the Godfathers? (i.e. the songs' choruses being the title repeated four times, except for "Birth School Work Death" which is only twice)

RIP Wesley. We have to see his like again. That's what the world is made of.

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 10:23 (twenty-one years ago)

three months pass...

Sad. My friend Dan made a documentary about WW & I think they became buds, I imagine he'll be feeling pretty low today...

I saw this last night and it was amazingly funny, especially the visit to the voo where Wesley wants to buy a book about Reindeer and tells the shop assistant that's it for research for songs about beastiality.

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Saturday, 8 January 2005 17:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I want to see that!

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 8 January 2005 18:08 (twenty-one years ago)

oh cool james, where'd you see that?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Saturday, 8 January 2005 18:26 (twenty-one years ago)

six months pass...

this thread is an ilm low-point

― fuck you strongo, Tuesday, 19 July 2005 01:20 (twenty years ago)

good idea to revive it then

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 19 July 2005 01:25 (twenty years ago)

you all should be reminded how repugnant you are

― moralist, Tuesday, 19 July 2005 01:34 (twenty years ago)

who are you?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 19 July 2005 01:44 (twenty years ago)

anonymous troll #565 (it's bato)

― wesley willis fan #4863, Tuesday, 19 July 2005 01:50 (twenty years ago)

thanks for stopping by!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 19 July 2005 01:52 (twenty years ago)

this is all my fault

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 19 July 2005 04:21 (twenty years ago)

Holy crap, I got...emotional, that day.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 19 July 2005 17:05 (twenty years ago)

Julio is maybe my favourite person ever to post to ILX.

― Adam In Real Life (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 19 July 2005 17:21 (twenty years ago)

http://s11.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0HKT1WPALMC8G3VGRW3FTHL4E0

= my living room at 4am the other night.

― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 19 July 2005 17:35 (twenty years ago)

julio used to insult me from time to time

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 19 July 2005 19:24 (twenty years ago)

He is really nice in real life, it's just that the internet does this to us all.

― Adam In Real Life (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 19 July 2005 19:25 (twenty years ago)

i was a magnet for insults for a brief moment, then it seemed to die away for reasons i still don't understand.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 19 July 2005 19:27 (twenty years ago)

He is really nice in real life, it's just that the internet does this to us all.

That's what someone said to me on Sunday who was friends with Blount in GA!

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 19 July 2005 19:28 (twenty years ago)

People underestimated you.

― Adam In Real Life (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 19 July 2005 19:29 (twenty years ago)

strangely, i listened to heavy vegetable's "song for wesley" on my way out the door today.
RIP

-- gygax! (gygax0...), August 22nd, 2003 1:01 PM. (gygax!)

This is such a good song, even some Apples in Stereo and Moby fans might agree.

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 19 July 2005 21:30 (twenty years ago)

have you purposely named two of my least -favorite acts of the last 10 years?

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 19 July 2005 22:01 (twenty years ago)

racist.

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 19 July 2005 22:11 (twenty years ago)

cave dwellers!

― Dr. Glen Y. Abreu (dr g), Tuesday, 19 July 2005 23:50 (twenty years ago)

six months pass...

god there's some really fucking stupid people here

― discus, Saturday, 21 January 2006 16:19 (twenty years ago)

four years pass...

thinking 'baout wesley willis today, miss <3

― buzza, Saturday, 20 November 2010 04:06 (fifteen years ago)

Another post on this thread = more clusterf posts disappear into the "show all messages" bin.

― Mark G, Saturday, 20 November 2010 09:34 (fifteen years ago)

I WHUP BAMANS ASS

― jumpskins, Saturday, 20 November 2010 09:43 (fifteen years ago)

nine months pass...

Amazing thread.

― James Ferraro Boyz (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 14 September 2011 16:26 (fourteen years ago)

Amazing thread.

― James Ferraro Boyz (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 14 September 2011 16:26 (fourteen years ago)

KISS A WARTHOG'S FUNKY ASSHOLE

― Jamie_ATP, Wednesday, 14 September 2011 16:27 (fourteen years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtgYvUpto4M

― citation needed (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 14 September 2011 16:59 (fourteen years ago)

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