The Ramones : Classic Or Dud

You're very much OFF the money there, Pinefox. Will explain why in detail later on.

Can't quite figure out whether that's a putdown of the Clash, or the Ramones, or neither, or both - and I'm not even European !

They became an institution for a reason, Mike. They admittedly worked the gimmick angle (certainly no more so than, say, the much-fawned over White Stripes), but I risk flogging the very obvious point by saying they did it *FIRST*! Respect is due. As for frankness, I don't believe anyone is saying their later work is as significant as their seminal first few albums.

To me this is so far wide of the mark that it completely misses what early-Ramones are all about. The analogies with Brill building and early 60's girlpop songcraft has been trotted out so often wrt The Ramones that it's tempting to dismiss it out-of-hand. There is some truth in it though - I can hear the Shangri-La's, say, in I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend or Babysitter. That's not to say that this automatically makes the Ramones good, of course.

But they're better than good - they're masters. Their best songs are great because they are lean and simple - there's nothing that shouldn't be there. Couple this with a simple melodic hook(nothing fancy - 4 chords max. and another 2 for the middle 8) and a propulsive beat, and you have something irresistable. Add some elements of The Ramones 'own world' imagery (pick from : NY street images, retards, 'nam casualties, glue, girls)and you have genius.

Take "Glad to see you Go" from Leave Home - straight into a Beach Boys/Eddie Cochrane morphed melody and just listen to the way that the song shifts gear slightly on lines 3 and 4 of the verse as Tommy closes the high-hat a touch under the chords and melody. The shift into the chorus is sublime and the sheer rush as it comes back to the last verse from the middle 8 ("I need somebody good, I need a miracle") is like a ride in the space shuttle - on the outside.

Take "Rockaway Beach" - another point on the curve linking "Summer in the City", " Dancing in the Street" and "Baby on more Time". Again - great chorus, great lyrics ("Chewin out a rhythm on my bubblegum") and a sense of PLACE. In less than 3 minutes you feel exactly what it's like to be a teenager in baking hot NY - and you feel it every single time you hear it. That's great songwriting, Pinefox.

Rockaway, Glad..., Listen to My Heart, 53rd and 3rd, You Should Never Have Opened That Door are equals of "Please, Please Me", "California Girls", "My Generation" ..... the list goes on....if you can look past the "punk" thing which is really a red herring as far as The Ramones are concerned.

I guess it all depends on what you look for in a song - they're not Burt or Jimmy Webb, but they tell a story, crank up the adrenaline, and make their own world for 3 mins for EVERY SINGLE TRACK on the first 4 albums. That's classic.

I am still not particularly convinced about the overall point. In fact, come to think of it, I'm not at all convinced. But to be reasonable about this, I'm going to have to leave it till I've listened to the Ramones again.

But, Dr.C makes such a good case for Da Ramones that I'm thinking of checking them out again.

But part2, Jason makes a very interesting point that almost gets buried: the puritanism of much punk. I feel it's a key to why I don't like much of the stuff (although most of the time I think of punk as anorexic - no bottom ;) Will go up on the mountain and meditate on this insight.

Which kind of explains why I like so few American bands. Seems that whatever genre they work in, there's always that wide Rock streak that suffuses it all and kind of obliterates whatever else they're trying to do.

OH-OH-I-LOVE-HER-SO-O-OH.

So I went to see what I thought was going to be a bunch of dodgy old punks on Saturday night and ended up seeing a dodgy old Scottish Ramones (this is a good thing).

Then I told my son (Mark, 5 and three quarters) that "Brian's band sound like the Ramones" and his jaw dropped and he said "THE RAMONES? REALLY? COOL!" and I think it's cool as fuck that my kid thinks it's cool that someone his dad knows is in a band that sounds a wee bit like The Ramones.

Then I listened to It's Alive this morning on the way to work and it reasserted itself as not only the best live album ever, but possibly one of the BEST ANYTHINGS EVER!

C.L.A.S.S.I.C.

Anyway, Weird Tales of the Ramones, anyone got it yet and want to tell me why I really need to buy it regardless of what I already own?

This is looking pretty classic:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ramones-Its-Alive-1974-1996/dp/B000EGEVZK

Finally, the It's Alive footage on DVD, with about, er, 100 other tracks!

DVD1:
-------
CBGB New York, NY (9/15/74)
Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue
I Don't Wanna Go Down To The Basement
Judy Is A Punk

Max’s Kansas City New York, NY (4/18/76)
I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend
53rd and 3rd

The Club Cambridge, MA (5/12/76)
Chain Saw

Max’s Kansas City New York, NY (10/8/76)
Havana Affair
Listen To My Heart

My Father’s Place Roslyn, NY (4/13/77)
I Remember You
Carbona Not Glue

CBGB New York, NY (6/11/77)
Blitzkrieg Bop
Sheena Is A Punk Rocker
Beat On The Brat
Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue
Rockaway Beach
Cretin Hop
Oh Oh I Love Her So
Today Your Love, Tomorrow The World

The Second Chance Ann Arbor, MI (6/26/77)
Rockaway Beach
Carbona Not Glue

The Ivanhoe Theater Chicago, IL (7/6/77)
Pinhead
Suzy Is A Headbanger

The Armadillo Austin, TX (7/14/77) Early Show
Commando
I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend

The Armadillo Austin, TX (7/14/77) Late Show
Now I Wanna Be A Good Boy
53rd & 3rd
Today Your Love, Tomorrow The World

Liberty Hall Houston, TX (7/15/77)
Loudmouth
I Remember You
Gimme Gimme Shock Treatment

Liberty Hall Houston, TX (7/16/77)
Oh Oh I Love Her So
Today Your Love, Tomorrow The World

Don Kirshner’s Rock Concert L.A., CA (8/9/77)
Loudmouth
Judy Is A Punk
Glad To See You Go
Gimme Gimme Shock Treatment

The Camera Mart Stages New York, NY (9/3/77)
Swallow My Pride
Pinhead
Sheena Is A Punk Rocker

It’s Alive, The Rainbow Theatre London (12/31/77)
Blitzkrieg Bop
I Wanna Be Well
Glad To See You Go
You're Gonna Kill That Girl
Commando
Havana Affair
Cretin Hop
Listen To My Heart
I Don't Wanna Walk Around With You
Pinhead
Do You Wanna Dance?
Now I Wanna Be A Good Boy
Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue
We're A Happy Family

Bonus features:
- Dee Dee and Joey - The Beginning (Interview)
- Tommy - Forest Hills High School (Interview)
- Danny Fields - Revelations (Interview)
- Joey & Dee Dee - Influences (Interview)
- Joey & Danny - Artistic Growth (Interview)
- Violence? (Interview)
- What is Punk? (Interview)
- Tommy - How I learned to play drums and we got a record deal (Interview)
- Dee Dee - Coffee And Cigarettes (Interview)
- Johnny - Hard To Stop (Interview)
- Argentina - The First Time (Interview)
- Mandagsborgen (Interview)
- Sha Na Na Shenanigans (Interview)
- It's Not My Place (In The 9 To 5 World) (Video)
- Somebody Put Something In My Drink (Rare Video) (Rough Cut)
- Photo Galleries (Also Ramones fans got chance to send photos taken by them to the DVD).

DVD2:
-------
Musikladen Bremen, Germany (9/13/78)
Rockaway Beach
Teenage Lobotomy
Blitzkrieg Bop
Don't Come Close
I Don't Care
She's The One
Sheena Is A Punk Rocker
Cretin Hop
Listen To My Heart
I Don't Wanna Walk Around With You
Pinhead

The Old Grey Whistle Test London (9/19/78)
Don't Come Close
She's The One
Go Mental

Top of the Pops London (9/28/78)
Don't Come Close

Oakland, CA (12/28/78)
I'm Against It
Needles And Pins

San Francisco Civic Center, S.F., CA (6/9/79)
I Want You Around
I'm Affected
California Sun

The Old Grey Whistle Test London (1/15/79
Rock 'N' Roll High School
Do You Remember Rock 'N' Roll Radio?

Top of the Pops London (1/31/80)
Baby I Love You

Sha Na Na L.A., CA (5/19/80)
Rock 'N' Roll High School

Mandagsborsen Stockholm, Sweden (10/26/81)
We Want The Airwaves

TVE Musical Express Madrid, Spain (11/17/81)
This Business Is Killing Me
All Quiet On The Eastern Front

US Festival San Bernardino, CA (9/3/82)
Do You Remember Rock 'N' Roll Radio?
Gimme Gimme Shock Treatment
Rock 'N' Roll High School
I Wanna Be Sedated
Beat On The Brat
The KKK Took My Baby Away
Here Today, Gone Tomorrow
Chinese Rocks
Teenage Lobotomy

The Old Grey Whistle Test London (2/26/85)
Wart Hog
Chasing The Night

Obras Sanitarias, Buenos Aires, Argentina (2/3/87)
Blitzkrieg Bop
Freak Of Nature
Crummy Stuff
Love Kills
I Don't Care
Too Tough To Die
Mama's Boy

Provinssirock Festival, Seinäjoki, Finland (6/4/88)
I Don't Want You Anymore
Weasel Face
Garden Of Serenity
I Just Want To Have Something To Do
Surfin' Bird
Cretin Hop
Somebody Put Something In My Drink
We're A Happy Family

R.I.T., Rochester, NY (10/8/88)
Do You Remember Rock 'N' Roll Radio
Wart Hog

Rolling Stone Club Milan, Italy (3/16/92)
Psycho Therapy
I Believe In Miracles
I Wanna Live
My Brain Is Hanging Upside Down (Bonzo Goes To Bitburg)
Pet Sematary
Animal Boy
Pinhead

Top of the Pops London (6/29/95)
I Don't Wanna Grow Up

River Plate Stadium, Buenos Aires, Argentina (3/16/96)
I Wanna Be Sedated
R.A.M.O.N.E.S.
Blitzkrieg Bop

(also, LOL at those reviewers going on about this without looking up the tracklist)

Oof -- might have to pick this up.

wow, overkill but I gotta have it. love dr. c on this thread, can't believe i never read it before.

R.I.T., Rochester, NY (10/8/88)

hmm. i saw them there in may of either '88 or '89. but given their touring at the time i guess maybe they played there twice in a year.

OMG hello birthday present!

The Dr. C breakdown of Ramones songcraft upthread just splattered my mind on the wall. So perfect.

Agreed. But the fact that he had to even MAKE that point makes me sad and frustrated. I'm all for skewering the sacred cows, but c'mon - how can anyone NOT like the fucking Ramones?? Possibly the most classic-est band evah!!! Upthread, all I see is more ILX Contrarian Rally nonsense...

"Tell me son, what is minimalism?"

Ramones are a band that always sound tremendous when I'm out somewhere, but never feel the urge to listen to at home.

They're a sort of necessary blast of rudeness. But not when I'm in a comfy chair.....

Does anyone have this yet? I ordered it online, expecting it any day now.

It's here! The box is very pink.

http://www.ramonesitsalivedvd.com/

I picked it up but it's a present for my brother-in-law so I haven't opened it. Looks really great, and my local record store has it on sale this week for $11 so I might just buy a copy for myself.

Just got it. I started with the archives, but I've gotta go to bed sometime so I used the handy menu to go straight to the 12/31/77 show.

95% of the first disc and the tracks I like on the second one = ULTRA CLASSIC.

Second disc gets progressively more painful to watch. Especially Joey. And Marky's hair.

Finished the New Years '77 show and went on to the second DVD. This first thing from Bremenpalast or whatever is really good. But yeah, I'm afraid of what is to come.

Looking forward to more Road To Ruin stuff, though.

I vote dud. I don't give bands any credit for being "influential," so they don't score points with me there. I just never feel like listening to those albums. Nobody I have ever known likes to play those albums. I find the music average at best, and the singing to be a real downer. Yeah, I guess I find the singing to be a big buzz kill. That said, I don't hate them that much, and maybe I even like 5-10 songs. I just find them closer to dud than to classic.

You can't hate "It's Alive" the album though, or can you?

I don't hate the Ramones. I think I just like them best in small doses. Classic radio should play them a bit more. I never hear them played.

Those first three albums ALWAYS SOUND AMAZING. Doesn't matter where you are, what you're doing, or how you feel. They fucking rule. How many albums in rock history can you say that about?

Bought the DVD but haven't had time to watch...can't wait!

Great songwriters. A pity all of the arrangements on those first albums sound exactly the same though.

The Ramones are one of those "I can't trust the opinions of someone who doesn't like them" bands.

I like all their albums, even 'Halfway to Sanity' (search: "Go L'il Camaro Go"), and they def. had a quality surge at the end.

The Rainbow performance is so nostalgic on the DVD. I wasn't there, but it captures exactly how I remember how people looked in '77: the full cliche punk look, people wearing school ties and having the non-punk shortened fringe look, people with 70s long hair attending punk gigs.

And Joey look so vulnerable when he punches the air, moves around, or even just having trouble keeping up with the music at some points.

How can a guy calling himself "Nicky Lo-Fi" not dig the Ramones 200%?

Why don't "classic rock" stations ever play the Ramones? God knows they're old and classic enough. Q-104.3 in the NJ/NYC area still plays the same friggin Pink Floyd and Eagles crap they've been playing the past 15 years. No wonder radio's a rotting corpse.

unrelated, I just hacked my iPod Touch to get internet radio.

love

I'm going to have to give "It's Alive" another listen because frankly I don't understand all the love for it here (compared to their studio stuff, that is).

yeah I've never heard it, was surprised by all the praise it gets on this thread.

I have been in a serious Ramones-hole for the last few days though, everything up through Subterannean Jungle.

Timely thread - I've been listening to the first 2 albums a lot lately. Need to get Rocket to Russia. You always think that you know what the Ramones sound like - listening for the few well-known elements of their sound - but they can still surprise after so many listens. I guess it's fair to call them minimalists, but only if one keeps in mind that minimalism can be liberating as well as restricting. A monolithic focus can produce something that dwarfs the scale of something that tries to do too much. If the Beatles and their followers had taught rock to be sophisticated (gradually forsaking the innocent rush of "I Want to Hold Your Hand" for the irony and multiplicity of the White Album), the Ramones went backward (to the '50s rockers) in order to move forward, though preserving the irony.

I don't know what's wrong with me I've been in a real "New York state of mind" recently - I went from that Dion album to a VU/Lou Reed binge to the Ramones

people that don't understand the ramones don't understand that they were an art band.

"I'm going to have to give "It's Alive" another listen because frankly I don't understand all the love for it here (compared to their studio stuff, that is)."

It's a concentrated shot of the original material, which was already ultra-concentrated: Quadruple strength, with additional live-sound roughage.

The Ramones are one of those "I can't trust the opinions of someone who doesn't like them" bands.

― Colonel Poo, Friday, October 26, 2007 6:00 AM (11 months ago) Bookmark Suggest

OTM

They just seem so eminently likable, like all their famous songs are so hummable and I love Joey's Ronnie Spector schtick.

It's Alive = 28 songs, less than 56 minutes. More like 54: something. Also fun: the sprawling two-CD It's Alive video collection includes film of half the album's tracks. Great!

http://www.geocities.com/geeesevvon/ramones/pics/joey-and-spaceman.jpg

Eminently likeable? Not sure about Johnny...And Dee Dee's books are a bit psychotic in places.

band and their material /= individual bandmembers

Classic band - verging on genius for first few albums. But ultimately I think of them as almost tragic - that Ramones documentary was so sad.

Best bonus track = S.L.U.G

New book by Joey's brother Mitchell, aka Mickey Leigh.

Which is kinda not that well-written.

That "Weird Tales" anthology.

The book you get with it.

It's worth it.

I only really like the first album.

rocket to russia is my fave, the first four are all great tho

This is fantastic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1QG8MJ7jv4

This is a segment with interview, live footage and sometimes hilarious fan reactions to a Ramones show in Minneapolis in 1978. I like to imagine that all the '80s hardcore kids were at this show, or at least caught this video on their PBS affiliate.

Was inspired by this thread to listen to some of The Ramones first album. "I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend" sounds so sincere with its 50s pop sound. I'm surprised an indie film or a TV commercial haven't used it yet.

(xpost) That vid is great, thanks for linking! I grew up in the Twin Cities, but didn't live here '76 - '78. I had forgotten they went from playing at a dive bar in St. Paul in the summer of '77, to a large theater in January of the following year. With The Runaways!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nycdreamin/4310636885/

"I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend" sounds so sincere with its 50s pop sound. I'm surprised an indie film or a TV commercial haven't used it yet.

It actually got an airing in the late 90s indie flick Whatever, but only me and maybe five other people remember the film. Good soundtrack tho, Pretenders, Motorhead, The Jam...

Almost can't be bothered to contribute, as they were/are so obviously classic .

Agreed,though ,they never matched the first three in the studio. My introduction to them was It's Alive. I bought that, I only had my paper round money and it seemed such great value for money back then.
Sadly, I can't even recall the name of their last 16 albums. For me, they tailed off massively around the only time I ever saw them live in 85 at teh Lyceum (Too Tough to Die)

amazing clip

"they're not the most talented, but they're the most fun" !!! lol

funny revive, just tonight a guy 10 years older than me told me that he discovered the ramones in '78, his senior year of high school, and it sort of changed the world for him. i had the same experience about 4 or 5 years later in middle school.

'i remember you' is just about the perfect pop song, i've realized.

Not listening to them for a while, then going into overdrive listening to the first four I came across the notion, that I really needed all of the Ramones studio albums. I've been picking them up one after another over the past few months and some of the later ones like Brain Drain and Acid Eaters which I haven't heard since they were new, while not sonically touching those early works are still pretty damn good for what they are and at points great. I never had Mondo Bizarro or Adios Amigo, but I will at some point in the next few months. I still need to get Animal Boy, which is out of print like some of the later 80s stuff currently is at this point. But on the rest, I say they were more consistent than perhaps given credit.

Animal Boy is pretty horrid, apart from Bonzo Goes to Bitburg.

The "Weird Tales of the Ramone" set is very worth it.

Disc 1 represents the first four albums.

Discs 2 and 3 represent all the others with at least four tracks off each, enough to show there wasn't a massive slacking off of quality anywhere.

Disc 4 is a DVD of mainly later period stuff, but then again that wouldn't get collected any place else really.

And the booklet is excellent, different cartoonists illustrate how they were, episodes from their history (check the dirctor's audio track from the R&R High school DVD for sources), and general fan-style nuttiness.

I got one cheap in an HMV sale around 8 years ago, glad I didn't plump for the 2CD "anthology"...

I must admit I prefer the Ramones' version of "Baby I Love You" to the original.

Alice (now 11), as regular readers know, her first favourite band was the Ramones..

cf: Parents forbidding music

.. anyway, not that long ago we were in a shoe shop and "Baby I love you" came on, she'd not heard it before.

"That's the Ramones!" I say.

"Really?"

"Yep. That was their biggest hit."

"Oh! Was that because....." she begins.

"what, because it sounds nothing like their other stuff?"

"Yeah"

"Yup"

i had no idea it was a hit, let alone their biggest.

No 8 in 1980. Made it to Top of the Pops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4H9yZBjgSI

It's the easiest Ramones single to find on 7" in the UK, so they must've sold a lot of them.

I agree with the abundant praise for It's Alive on this thread. and for any doubters - here's the 26 minute edit of the show from the dvd; one of the greatest half hours of rock concert footage ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imf25Squ8ro

has anyone read johnny's book?

A young music critic at the time speaks:

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/c12.0.403.403/p403x403/408392_4798168918970_1487741182_n.jpg

I assume that was the Morrissey letter that was going around Facebook earlier, but I'm not seeing anything linked to. Is that my computer?

It is -- odd, working for me here.

would love to know what lp this young'un won.

I have this impression that Morrissey only likes 12 bands and that that has never changed (Patti Smith, the Dolls, T. Rex, Sparks, Bowie eh who cares who the others are)

Jobriath would be another.

the last sentence should be referred to his solo career

I remember when he was a big supporter of the Woodentops, then they put out a single he didn't like (as good as anything else they did) and he started referring to them as "the Suddenflops" and spent about twenty hours dismissing the single. Which was actually pretty great. He did a similar thing with James, but they probably deserved it.

funny you should say that, as i clearly remember having a discussion with a smiths fan, and he hated the woodentops, whereas i loved them, and we used to have heated debates as to the merits of each band.

the line in the sand was drawn, and i have often wondered what caused the rift.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mao35421NH1qaxybpo1_500.jpg
not sure what's worse, writing that letter or drinking a corona on johnny's grave

behave. he never drank the beer.

lol regrets?

wow never seen Johnny's grave before that is amazing! where is it

i think it's in the Hollywood Forever cemetery.

http://www.hollywoodforever.com/stories?ls_id=20259

Morrissey was apparently a big Ramones fan during the Smiths days, so I guess it didn't take him <i>too</i> long to come around.

Forgot to hit that "convert to BBcode" button. Rookie mistake.

welcome rookie.

nicholas cage's johnny impression!!

aw that nicholas cage thing is actually really sweet

The Ramones meet Regis and Kathy Lee

Meanwhile, on the 6 train...

awesome clip - thx!

xpost -- I see you noticed that as well.

i don't know if i've ever seen a human male with skinnier legs than joey ramone.

inventing post rock

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MPEqGJqqSI

has anyone read johnny's book?

― fit and working again, Saturday, August 11, 2012 8:02 AM (5 months ago

Yep. It's a great read. Not brilliantly written - it jumps all over the place, he skips a lot, repeats a lot and a few other problems. But you really get a sense of his character - and what a character he is. He's a grouchy, conservative, misanthrope with a chip on both shoulders who won't tolerate bullshit of any kind and loves baseball, movies and punk music (in that order). He's paranoid about the Ramones' image but loves them and is so proud of them, regards as the best ever and loves his celebrity friends (there are probably hundreds of photos of him with famous people). Seems like he and Joey were complete opposites and Joey made him crazy. Dee Dee he loved and he really respected him, while openly admitting to bullying him and considering him a fuck-up. There's good, non-judgmental insights into the various drug problems etc that they went through. He writes about each album and rates them etc, like a true music geek. There's lots of lists actually. Then it ends as he is dying and it's pretty touching as he does the "I couldn't have wished for a better life" routine. Worth your time if you love the Ramones.

Here's an interesting question that was asked on twitter...who played the keyboards on "Let's Dance"?

Craig Leon. This is mentioned in Mickey Leigh's book "I Slept With Joey Ramone".

The two of them, plus other people like Arturo Vega added quite a few tiny details on top of the bass/guitars/drums/vocals of the Ramones after the formal recording of the album - handclaps, a few "ooooohs" here and there, that weird tss-boom sound on the chorus in Havana Affair etc. For Let's Dance he specifically mentions that Leon played a huge pipe organ that was in the studio.

Via Facebook via Rolling Stone--the Sun Sessions 1974:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI4EDSw3K3A

Tommy (who I seem to remember from the documentary had a more normal rock group pedigree): "I can't take it."

Weird--seems to have been taken down seconds after I posted.

seems to not have been taken down to me. nice show.

Because of the Rolling Stone piece, maybe the link was overwhelmed for a while. I love that they don't seem 100% sure of what image they want to project yet. Joey's swishing around bipperty-bopperty during "Basement," while Johnny's bare-chested, like he's Iggy Pop or Robert Plant or Roger Daltrey (amazing close-up at 3:30). The music's already in place, though. Sept 15, 1974: "I Shot the Sheriff" #1 song, Chinatown film, new president about a month in office.

"#1 film"

love the argument at 2:00, it's like Mean Streets dialogue.

Joey: I DON'T WANNA GO DOWN TO THE BASEMENT!
Marky: Aw come on, let's do Loudmouth alright?
Dee Dee; I wanna do I Don't Wanna Go Down To Basement too!
Johnny: Yeah, come on, it's three against one.
Marky: Fuck you all.
Johnny. OK OK Let's go. Quick. Lively.
Dee Dee: 1-2-3-4!

tommy, not mark

yeah of course right

In honor of July 4th, I posted a bunch of Ramones clips on fb. I especially dug this one, a PBS story on them from '78. It was recorded in Minneapolis--I wonder if any future 'Mats or Husker Du-ers were in the house?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1QG8MJ7jv4

I love that they don't seem 100% sure of what image they want to project yet. Joey's swishing around bipperty-bopperty during "Basement," while Johnny's bare-chested, like he's Iggy Pop or Robert Plant or Roger Daltrey

Did they ever really resolve this tension? It always seemed unlikely that Joey and Johnny should be in the same band. Part of their charm, I'd say.

Fascinating to see those two clips next to each other. There's assurance and speed after four years, but so much is in place in 1974, even as it drips with stage fright. They already can't control what they've created, like there's only one direction this can go. Impossible to separate what they wanted to do from what just came out that way.

xp johnny's leopard skin lapels show the glam influence just as much as joey's posturing.

Ramones filling the State Theatre with 3,000 people in 1978 explains so much about Minneapolis. Love the Batman tee!

RIP Tommy Ramone. Does this make the Ramones one of the few bands where every original member is dead? Sad, regardless.

see this thread for more:

Tommy Ramone RIP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5pN9xU6HHc

Keep an eye out for ironing at 3:40 mark.

"The Raymones" ...Joe's pronounciation. RIP Joe

Indeed

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/19/arts/music/ramones-the-story-behind-a-debut-album-from-punk-pioneers.html?ribbon-ad-idx=3&rref=arts/music&module=Ribbon&version=context®ion=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Music&pgtype=article

40th anniversary and exhibit at Queens Museum in NYC

I've been listening to the 40th anniversary mono mix of the debut and it's fantastic.

I've been on a big listening binge on The Ramones for the past few months. Their sound was so streamlined and perfect. Thinking about how it all went, I am curious to find out what the best biography of the Ramones to check out? I have read "From the Velvets to the Voidoids" and "Please Kill Me", but I know there have been a few Ramones biographies that have come out in the recent years.

Having a mono LP of the debut would be cool.

Their sound was so streamlined and perfect

yeah the first album in particular is one of the great formal breakthroughs IMO. just a remarkable synthesis that seems obvious in retrospect but required a real leap.

so sad that the ramones story turned out to be a tragedy.

i just read marky's book and was surprised to learn that they all could barely tolerate each other as early as when he joined the band. it's amazing they lasted as long as they did.

i've read a bunch of books about them and, while i'd be hard-pressed to name a "best", i'd recommend the books by everett true and tour manager monte melnick.

And while not a book, the End of the Century documentary is well worth your time.

Marky's book gives the best insight and is the best autobiography by quite a way. Dee Dee and Johnny's books were cool but much more limited and personal in completely different ways. Fans should read all three.

Watching the Anthony Bourdain episode called Lower East Side where he had a meal with Danny Fields has me listening to "Danny Says" (both the original and demo versions).

What about the documentary of the same title?

Yes, that too

stumbled upon 'the job that ate my brain' from mondo bizarro the other day. a 1992 gem! huge production!

Their sound was so streamlined and perfect.

Those first four albums are amazing. I may be alone in thinking Leave Home is the best of them (Leave Home > Ramones > Road To Ruin > Rocket To Russia), but they all sit together as a set, too. I recently came back to them after not having listened for years, and even their '80s stuff - albums like Too Tough To Die and Animal Boy - is shockingly strong.

The 70s set being topped off with "It's Alive", which also kicks ass.

For a band that had such a focus, they had more range in production and guitar sounds than one might expect. I love the first albums sound with the bass all up in the mix.

There are definitely lots of good nugget tunes on all of their records.

I loved and still love Acid Eaters which was their current LP when I saw the band. They have quite a few really ace covers. I think they do the best "Surfin' Bird" this side of the Trashmen original.

I didn't get to see them live until 1989 or 1990; CJ had just joined the band. They were amazing, though; I swear they played 40 songs in 75 minutes. The show was crazy violent, though, because the opening acts were GBH and Warzone. Lots of fights between old-school punk types and NYHawdCoah knuckle-walkers.

that they produced those four albums (plus It's Alive and End of the Century) in the space of barely more than three years is astounding, such a great hot streak, it rivals any other run of consistently great material in the ~history of rock~

1987 Ramones show I saw was the most crazy violent gig, too. They drew in a large array of outcasts with different expectations and altered states, not the typical HC pit.

HI DERE

No more of your fairy stories
Cause I’ve got my own worries

“Dad what’s turn a trick?”

1974 performance kills

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwsVWZ-c8Eo

I always wonder what that sounded like to people in '74.

It sounded like a joke or novelty act to a lot of people, from what I've read.

Good to see the onstage arguing between songs was not just a myth.

We do know for sure what it sounded like to Lou Reed in 1975.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-f2rz2G9AI

there’s also the “covers album” phase.

Good to see the onstage arguing between songs was not just a myth.

Ha, exactly

I love that Lou Reed reaction so much...

Classic or dud: Pete Davidson as Joey Ramone

We really should take a stab at rounding out the rest of the cast

It's like they took the Adam Driver model of an awkward and gawky guy who is not considered traditionally handsome but has legions of female fans anyway and tried to map it onto Davidson but without the part about actually being good at acting.

Last (x) Movies you are going to Avoid

Joey's hard to cast, he's so tall! That's probably Davidson's best attribute in terms of casting, he's only a few inches shorter.

Rami Malek might make a decent Dee Dee, with the right bangs.

Ideal casting for Dee Dee would be a younger Michael Shannon. Honestly he might still be able to pull it off.

I love the Marones but have no interest in some shitty movie about them

They should do it all CG.

OTM

The first shot should be the cover of Road To Ruin.

I hope, a la the Taxi stuff in Man on the Moon, that there's a few scenes of them shooting Rock n' Roll High School with PJ Soles and Clint Howard reprising their roles as high school students.

And Mary Woronov, of course.

(This is where I reveal that I was shockingly old when I learned just now that PJ Soles is a decade older than Clint Howard, how is that even possible)

Some kind of time loop, maybe?

I've long found it comical that they were trying to pass off the balding and clearly almost middle-aged Howard as a teenager in movies such as RnRHS and Evilspeak but...he was actually in his early twenties at the time?!?

Everything I thought I knew to be true...

The Pate on the Edge of Forever

Sorry

*ducks*

lol, yeah, I should've been able to put two and two together and realize that the kid from Star Trek didn't somehow age forty years between then and the late '70s but my brain, she does not always work so good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7MOseipVc8

He's some kind of ageless wonder, really, nothing to apologize for.

Davidson looks a lot more like Joey than he did Tom Zutaut.

Tranya trayna, we accept you
We accept you, one of us

Pleased to meet you, Captain.

Misspelled the second tranya, making my lame joke even lamer :(

Here's hoping Tommy's Hungarian childhood is covered.

Hope so.

Just noticed that a bunch of Ramones videos on Youtube that seem to be official have no sound right now.

Like this, the first hit for this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HUGeA2lur4

But not this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GudM-IjhvSo

From some angles, Charlie Heaton is almost the spitting image of Dee Dee.

^I see it

https://celebrityxyz.com/i/p/2/69.jpg

Isn’t that another guy, SNL guy?

ramones mania is their best and a good start for beginners as i am not a huge fan of theirs but i could get into them more starting with their first release!

xp i think you're thinking of bill hader, lol

Yes, I was coming back to post exactly that. The SNL guy who likes R.A. Lafferty.

This is news, yeah? Saw it on Twitter a couple of days ago...

"JEFFREY HYMAN (JEFF STARSHIP ) (JOEY RAMONE) WITH HIS PRE RAMONES BAND, 'SNIPER' LIVE in THE UNDERGROUND TONIGHT SHOW in 1973"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQqGF8uW3Hw

Think so

Where are my safety pins? What'd you do with my safety pins, what is this?

Also, We're Outta Here just popped up in the play sequence and I am surprised at how much I am liking it.

i have ramones mania is good enough for me!

First four albums, the first live album and Too Tough to Die are all great. The rest have at least one or two excellent tracks.

I can agree with that except I never listened to To Tough to Die. Guess I will give it a try soon.

it's a good one!

yeah too tough to die is great!

First four albums, the first live album and Too Tough to Die are all great. The rest have at least one or two excellent tracks.

First five albums I'd say.

First 4 + Too Tough to Die otm

Their debut is by far their best. I'd say Pleasant Dreams has as many good songs as Rocket to Russia.

xxp The Spector album didn't live up to my hopes, but it's got great stuff, especially "Danny Says." Definitely worth checking out.

An argument for the '80s albums.

The ‘80s albums have to be argued for, the ‘70s ones speak for themselves

I love a lot of stuff the 80s albums. Animal Boy is what brought me into the fold, so that's the one that will always have my heart. I want synths in my Ramones! Mental Hell does not feel 2.5 minutes long to me. That song is epic. After that, I bought Brain Drain. When I then went back to get the first album, it was truly a different band that it took a few listens for me to understand, kinda like this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ybn8hqTj8s

I've been waiting for a while for a reissue of the 80s albums, and lo and behold this Record Store Day, there is a 7-LP box set (Pleasant Dreams, Subterranean Jungle, Too Tough To Die, Animal Boy, Halfway To Sanity, Brain Drain, and a rarities disc). But I definitely don't want to buy a 7-LP box set of the 80s Ramones records. I could make do with maybe half of them. Really hope they all get re-released on their own after this.

On my Ramones poll ballot, I didn't even have anything from the 70s until 9th place, that's where my head is at.

1. Poison Heart - I just want to walk right out of a world where Poison Heart didn't even place in a Ramones poll.
2. Howling at the Moon (Sha-La-La)
3. Pet Semetary
4. I Wanna Live
5. I Believe In Miracles
6. Something To Believe In
7. Eat That Rat
8. Love Kills
9. I Just Wanna Have Something to Do
10. Chinese Rock
11. 53rd & 3rd
12. Mental Hell
13. Loudmouth
14. Don’t Bust My Chops
15. Mama’s Boy
16. My Brain Is Hanging Upside Down (Bonzo Goes To Bitburg)
17. Havana Affair
18. Judy Is a Punk
19. Apeman Hop
20. She Belongs to Me
21. We Want the Airwaves
22. Danny Says
23. Merry Christmas (I Don't Want to Fight Tonight)
24. We’re a Happy Family
25. Rockaway Beach

The Ramones’ career after the first couple of albums was one long continuous attempt to sell out, with no one ever buying. Doing 1960s covers didn’t work. Working with Phil Spector didn’t work. Doing a Roger Corman film didn’t work. Adding synthesizers didn’t work. Theme song to a Stephen King movie didn’t work.

Rhino's two-CD Hey! Ho! Let's Go! anthology does a good job of cherrypicking from the '80s, maybe even an amazing job if you don't think it's too generous. (It's in chronological order and the Spector cuts close the first disc.)

It's also my introduction to the Ramones. I knew OF them thanks to The Simpsons but I didn't really know who they were until I read an L.A. Times review for Rhino's set that explained their place in rock history. I found that set later at my library and it wasn't long before I got those first four albums.

Yeah, I had Hey Ho for a while back in the day. It's pretty solid.

I like Pleasant Dreams so much I wrote a whole thread about it. And yeah, TTTD is really good too. Animal Boy has some filler, but it also has Richie Ramone's great "Somebody Put Something in My Drink," plus "Bonzo Goes to Bitburg." (And "Crummy Stuff," maybe as close as Dee Dee got in the '80s to writing like it was 1976.)

"Somebody Put Something in My Drink" is actually the first Ramones song I remember encountering. I was a kid, somewhere in the single digits in age, and my parents took me to someone's home and it was playing in the basement where their kids were. Like pop music in general was still esoteric for me and it was such a weird song to me the title lyric just stuck. I never heard that song again but I always remembered it, and I was surprised to find it on Hey! Ho!, like "Wow, THESE are the guys who did that song?"

Because I am lolold it's fascinating to me that youngsters could have first encountered The Ramones via Animal Boy, or via The Simpsons. It's a whole different viewpoint than mine. Cool, actually.

Yes, exactly.

The first Ramones thing I ever heard was It's Alive - I remember thinking it was all the same song but that soon changed

The first time I heard the Ramones, it was Eat That Rat. When I was in elementary school, maybe 4th or 5th grade, I would just sit up in my room spinning the radio dial and taping whatever music I found. On this particular late 80s day, I landed on a station that may have been a pre-corporate WHFS. The songs I got that day were Eat That Rat by Ramones, Rise Above by Black Flag, Peek-a-Boo by Siouxsie and the Banshees, and a cover of Helter Skelter by Mighty Sphincter. Then they segued into a report on Orioles baseball. I really dug the first two and sought out their albums a year or two later; there was a lot I didn't understand about the Siouxsie song and she kinda scared me a little; and later that day when I asked my parents what "sphincter" meant, it was definitely an awkward moment.

Wish I still had that tape.

My sister-in-law had Rocket to Russia and Road to Ruin, which I don't remember playing but certainly did read the lyric sheet. My other brother had lots of English punk but no Ramones. My first encounter with them as a music fan would have been the "Something to Believe In" video, all of which gave me the impression they were a "funny" band, like Devo.

So many good cameos in that video.

The first album I heard was Leave Home, in maybe 1986 or '87. I definitely owned it, the debut, and Rocket to Russia before Ramones Mania came out in '88. I only saw them live once, in 1989 or 1990, and they were amazing — it felt like they played 50 songs in an hour and a half. (It was really only about 30, but they absolutely blasted through them.) The opening acts were GBH and Warzone, and I remember a lot of punk vs skin fights before the Ramones came on.

A friend saw them on the Escape from New York tour in 1990, where Chris Frantz of Tom Tom Club came onstage right after the Ramones begging people to stay for their set.

I saw that tour! Debbie Harry headlined. I still have the t-shirt.

Debbie Harry showed up recently in another context in a Commodore commercial with Andy Warhol.

There’s also this, which is read by AI Andy in the recent doc:

Monday, August 15, 1983

Cabbed to meet Jean Michel Basquiat at the workout with Lidija, he was doing it with us (cab $5). He’s in love with Paige Powell.

Got a call from Pia Zadora who said she wanted a Dollar Sign and she’d take it with her if it fit into her husband’s jet, so they were measuring it.

Oh, and one of the Ramones was having brain surgery yesterday because he was kicked in the head on West 10th Street in a fight over some cheap-looking girl.

Holy crap, I didn't even know that story.

Quick google search came up with an article published shortly after and a Dangerous Minds blog post. I knew about Joey and Johnny's fallout over Joey's ex/Johnny's soon-to-be wife, but man, not that.

I remember hearing about it on the rock and rollradio and maybe seeing it on the nightly news.

Should clarify, Joey and Johnny didn't fight each other, it was some other guy who thought Johnny was chasing after HIS girl.

The brain surgery unfortunately erased Johnny's impeccable mental storehouse of chord substitutions.

Wow, linked in that Dangerous Minds post is a really cool TV interview I've never seen before, when they played Minneapolis in 1978.

In '78 I lived in small town Minnesota. Disco was king. There was a big glitzy place that used to be a movie palace, but there was also a little subterranean bar where a friend was the DJ. He'd play hits from Saturday Night Fever, but also weave in oldies sets of Beatles, Beach Boys and Stones. I would bring my 45s of "Rockaway Beach" and "Sheena Is a Punk Rocker" down and he would play them and I would jump around, although I'm sure everyone else in the place hated them.

Cruel lol, Htbfy

Another cruel lol at this from Dangerous Minds:

and then there was the 24/7 problem that was Dee Dee Ramone

That whole blog post was good, thanks. Bonus points for mentioning the film Get Crazy as discussed (by me, mostly) here: https://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?showall=true&bookmarkedmessageid=7812536&boardid=41&threadid=15150

Hm. Wonder why it didn't do the link thing.

The Ramones’ career after the first couple of albums was one long continuous attempt to sell out, with no one ever buying. Doing 1960s covers didn’t work. Working with Phil Spector didn’t work. Doing a Roger Corman film didn’t work. Adding synthesizers didn’t work. Theme song to a Stephen King movie didn’t work.

This has generally been my view, but I don't see it as a crass sellout, in that within their circle (like the Lou Reed first impression unthread) they really were told they were the chosen ones. So why wouldn't they try to go for it? There was always just enough crossover hype to keep stringing them along. Unperson, really like your essay on the 80s records - I hadn't really considered that Johnny was trying to keep the band servicing the core audience that needed them while Joey wanted a bigger crowd.

Then there's the final tragic irony that right around the time Johnny dies, Ramonesy guitar pop become the mode of Disney Channel tween pop songs.

Yeah, that quote above came out more negative than I intended. The Ramones were always lovable whatever they were trying to do. I was always rooting for them to have a major commercial breakthrough. They really tried hard and always maintained some essence of Ramonesness through it all. And the live show was always punishingly punk in a wonderful way.

I wonder if Johnny would have tempered his purism if, at some point, they had actually managed a gold album or a top ten hit.

Had to revisit this - someone uploaded the HD version (albeit the cropped one):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MIYVamAiN8

Feel like maybe I spam this but you just reminded me of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_1sA0PVArw

I didn't know about Johnny's head injury. The first time I saw them was spring '84, which would have been the next tour after his recovery. (They were great, of course.)

I'm just curious... has anyone here seen the Ramones live in all of these phases? Or at least three of them?

a. 1976-1977 w/Tommy on drums
b. 1978-1983 w/Marky on drums
c. 1983-1987 w/Richie on drums
d. 1987-1989 w/Marky again post-sobriety
e. 1990- w/Marky on drums but C.J. instead of Dee Dee

If so, which lineup was your favorite?

*Tommy 1974-1977 should be

Tommy period is obviously the best but Marky is the best drummer.

Fair enough.

It's gonna be incredible.

Some radio station I used to listen to had an except of Joey saying those words that is now burned in my brain since I heard it over and over and over, but doesn't look like I will be able to discover its provenance.

I'm watching the documentary Ramones RAW where Gilbert Gottfried reveals how he was the secret fifth Ramone. @RealGilbert pic.twitter.com/IH3VQUtsX8

— tom c (@librariantom) March 11, 2022

"Somebody Put Something in My Drink" is actually the first Ramones song I remember encountering.

it was one of my first too. I had Sheena Is A Punk Rocker on a compilation and I liked it but it seemed kinda lightweight next to some of the UK punk on the same compilation. one of my friends at the time was this Greek stoner guy who was into punk and metal but mostly the kind of skater 90s stuff like NOFX, Lagwagon and Propagandhi. I used to bring my Dead Kennedys CDs round. anyway he was playing Ramones Mania one night but it was towards the end and he was like yeah this is the Ramones and it was Somebody Put Something In My Drink and I didn't really like it, thought it was too rock/metal or something. I've come around on it a bit since.

anyway a couple of years later I bought All The Stuff And More 1 & 2 and that was it I was off

We shouldn't forget Elvis Ramone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXWSyo0aPnc

https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/blondie-clem-burke-the-ramones/

This departure put The Ramones into turmoil as they needed to replace Richie, and fast. Having already been forced to postpone a pair of hometown shows at New York’s Ritz, the band were desperately aiming to avoid more concert cancellations when they made the call to Clem Burke, calling in a favour and join inventing ‘Elvis Ramone’. Despite being an offer that Burke couldn’t refuse, he was immediately thrown straight into the deep end with little to no rehearsal time to help integrate him into the Ramone family.

Recalling years later, The Blondie drummer described his first live show with fellow New Yorkers a disaster: “They asked me on a Monday when they had a gig on a Friday,” Burke explained. “It was the hardest work I ever did in a band.” Burke would only ever do one more show with the Ramones, the band deciding in the days between their next show that his style wasn’t the perfect fit.

The following weekend, as the drumming revolving door turned once again, the band made the call to re-appoint Marky Ramone who, of course, was their original drummer before Richie took up the sticks. Marky, it’s well documented, originally left the band due to drink problems which, thankfully, he was able to curb and he would stay in the band until their final show as an outfit in 1996.

Years later, while reflecting on the turbulent years, Joey Ramone explained why Burke and the Ramones styles didn’t quite work out: “His drumming style wasn’t right,” he said. “It was very loose, like in Blondie, not as rigid as we need. Double time on the hi-hat was totally alien to him.”

Lol, of course

But I definitely don't want to buy a 7-LP box set of the 80s Ramones records.

I definitely bought the 7-lp box set of 80s Ramones records.

LOL

https://boingboing.net/2022/08/02/someone-sneaked-a-super-8-camera-into-a-1978-ramones-concert-and-was-able-to-record-for-13-minutes-before-he-got-caught.html

Pretty great!

With all the original members dead and all the albums canonized in box sets, deluxe editions, etc., etc., it's hard to imagine what their impact must have been when they were new. But imagine living in Kansas City in 1978 and that band comes through town. It would have been life-altering.

Oh, this is actual Kansas City! I just looked at the youtube title and assumed it was Max's Kansas City.

haha same

That was awesome, thanks for sharing!

just in case people didn't know, there's a great 26 minute Live At The Rainbow 1977 video on YouTube too, from the It's Alive concert

the start of that is too camera flip heavy + some shots are reused but it gets better

Man, I got to get that Ramones DVD set now. Just looking at the tracklist makes me drool.

This one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp3zaeOyL7Q

yeah! (sorry, was on my phone, could have linked that myself)

Saw a little something interesting on a certain substack yesterday, assuming TSF saw it as well.

https://waynerobins49.substack.com/p/ramones-leave-home

would have loved to see dr feelgood. i don't think i saw the ramones until 1977. saw them once at cbgb but it was a madhouse.

Gabba gabba weeks said you weeks said you one of us

Ramones and Dr Feelgood would have been fun. I didn't see Ramones till 79

Fabulous

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8sNfCdCAJg

11 songs in 20 minutes. Amazing.

Man, that totally hit the spot. Made my day, maybe my week.

wonderful <3

So great. Thanks.

You see that and you wonder why the Ramones weren’t big stars right away in the US. I think it was down to the radio formatting at the time.

Force of nature. That's why It's Alive! is my favorite Ramones album, it's like a freight train.

that "all downstrokes" rule was punishing.

Did you subject yourself to that rule at any point, TSF?

only long enough to prove to myself those guys were crazy.

There are other situations where people do it, but maybe not ever single bar(re) of every single song.