should "Lean On Me" replace "The Star-Spangled Banner" as the US national anthem?

i'd actually be jazzed to stand for the thing for once

no, we should keep "the star-spangled banner" because I think it's good, actually
no, we should keep "the star-spangled banner" because it's bad and america deserves it

my opinion lies somewhere between these two

Having difficulty imagining singing "Lean On Me" - great as it is - before a Pirates game

voted 'keep, it's good' - I'm British and we need to sort our own house out (with Jerusalem obv) before sniping at America's perfectly good anthem - TSSB has a MUCH better development/climax/resolution than GSTQ, musically speaking, and I don't see what's so bad about it. Lean On Me has too much sadness and pathos, it's an anthem for truly the end of the world, which this ideally isn't

keep "the star-spangled banner" because some song has to be butchered at every sports event and it might as well be that one

It speaks in plain musical language, without a trace of bombast, in a tidy arrangement that unfolds over a few basic chords. It doesn’t march to a martial beat or rise to grand crescendos.

this writer truly does not understand what an anthem is

the writer makes clear that these qualities are what makes it an unorthodox choice!

America's anthem is a British drinking song w/ new words, we need a better one

^^gets it

maybe a T-Pain song with lyrics fitted from one of our less racist Founding fathers?

I'm appalled by how much I loved that Club Nouveau version as a kid.

i mean could you imagine what kind of people we'd have to be surrounded by if this were even remotely possible? beautiful people instead of ugly, evil people. never going to happen.

xpost I didn't realize that wasn't the original version until my dad's eyes bugged out when I said that thought out loud.

fine, i guess the writer does understand what an anthem is...so why not find another one that fits those criteria, haha

never going to happen.

this is a poll about what should be not what could be!

How about “Lovely Day” but instead of “Lovely Day” it’s drunken frat boys chanting “U-S-A, U-S-A, U-S-A...”

all the drunken sports fans passing out trying to hold that note longer than their buddies would be a real spectacle, it's true

https://ww.youtube.com/watch?v=mNUaAMMmp1c

damnit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNUaAMMmp1c

it occurs to me that a decent working definition of 'liberal' could be 'loves nationalism when it comes down to it tbh'

map otm

I think "The Star-Spangled Banner" is a good tune (I know that's a controversial opinion). It's definitely militaristic and nationalistic but that's the point of having a national anthem in the first place. "Lean On Me" is one of the best songs ever and it's thoroughly American as a song, but I don't think America has earned it as an anthem. Maybe if we were consistently a nation of sentimental liberals who have each other's back, which we're not.

xpost

it occurs to me that a decent working definition of 'liberal' could be 'loves nationalism when it comes down to it tbh'

― carin' (map), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:07 (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

this aimed at me? i'm speaking purely musically here. yes the sentiments are beautiful but it isn't a feasible anthem? imagine 'imagine' was the uk anthem lol

and yeah a working definition of 'liberal' is 'can get behind the sentiments in 'lean on me''

"Lean On Me" is incredible, but would be damaged and flattened out if made official and forced into all these other contexts where the anthem shows up. whereas somehow i think "This Land Is Your Land" could survive.

I don't hate The Star-Spangled Banner as a song, but the whole point of national anthems, like nations, is that they're for dicks, which is why Lean On Me or any other song of tender humanity would be wrong

Crut already made my point, lol sorry

My nomination despite the Britishness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGc5h1yWHQ

Replace it with "Slumerican Shitizen"

if america remade itself according to the principles of "lean on me," sure

star spangled banner sucks and we've earned it

lol in the recent series of 13 Reasons Why they ended the, like, tensest episode of all with Melt The Guns and it was the worst closing-credits music choice in TV history

Lean On Me has too much sadness and pathos, it's an anthem for truly the end of the world

whut

"No Thugs In Our House" perhaps closer to the pulse of the American psyche

i just have this vision of the citizens huddling together in their caves by candlelight singing 'lean on me' as the radiation sickness picks them off one by one

Easier to imagine the end of the world than a society based on siblinghood

anthems are for sports events and occasions of pomp and circumstance; they don't really matter but they are intended to amp up glory rather than celebrate siblinghood; if they can do both, more's the better. anthems don't really matter at the end of it and they don't really have any impact on society, but it is a fun question to think about

ITT some people show they didn't follow the whole "did you know there's a verse in the Star-Spangled Banner that celebrates slavery" controversy

anyway, I already recorded the real national anthem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA9UnZUKveY

^^^^ goddamn

Lean On Your Bootstraps

Easier to imagine the end of the world than a society based on siblinghood

which is why my backup in case "Lean on Me" falls through is "Kill the Poor"

'lift every voice and sing' would be a way better choice than 'lean on me'. agreed (and great performance obv)

ITT some people show they didn't follow the whole "did you know there's a verse in the Star-Spangled Banner that celebrates slavery" controversy

I'm aware of the verse in the original poem on which the anthem is based.

Reveal Your Uncool Conservative Beliefs Here fodder but "The Star-Spangled Banner" > "Lean On Me" musically speaking.

i didn't know about that verse :(

why is there no option for "no anthems"

Give me mandatory disco sing-a-longs or give me death.

Give me mandatory disco sing-a-longs or give me death.

― Get the point? Good, let's dance with nunchaku. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:32 (twenty-one seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

'i feel love' can be yours, and 'left to my own devices' ours, and everyone wins

/remembers that Eric H is Canadian, not USAmerican

anyway, I already recorded the real national anthem:

Don't mean to embarrass you here but this is not actually an embed of 'Bring Out The Katz'

I'm Minne-Canadian.

it's back on

why is there no option for "no anthems"

just to annoy everyone tbh

i'm annoyed

xxpost from the Minne-Can Republic

"The Star-Spangled Banner" > "Lean On Me" musically speaking

the hideous hot take I was waiting for!

needs a guest verse IMO

The Vajazzled Banner

None of the arguments in that piece seem like reasons to pick a song as the national anthem? I could understand preferring "Lift Every Voice", "God Bless America", or "This Land Is Your Land" but "Lean on Me" is political correctness gone mad. As a non-American, I voted to keep TSSB bc Hendrix.

if they just played the hendrix solo at every sporting event and no one sang: sure

Don't mean to embarrass you here but this is not actually an embed of 'Bring Out The Katz'

yo Griff.... LIFT EV'RY VOICE!

half the stadium yelling OH, the other half yelling YES

currently discovering that i do support replacing the national anthem with "bring in the katz"

This is truly an opportunity to bring the entire nation together

Also bc I <3 that every American has to sing a descending sixth and then go up to the raised subdominant in the third bar of their anthem xps

Lots of people stan for "America the Beautiful" and not without reason - way too religious for me but there is the germ of a good idea in it. It's more about what the nation can become than how allegedly awesome the nation currently is.

"Confirm thy soul in self-control; thy liberty in law" = like, we know there's still some good in you, so please start showing it. We like the representative democratic aspects of the constitution, but you need to get better at actually living up to those principles. "Crown thy good with brotherhood" = the good things about you ("the better angels of our natures," one might say) need to be backed by fostering and promoting moves toward ACTUAL real equality.

Still, way too god-centric for irreligious me. Ditto "God Bless America," obv.

I would be okay with Lift Every Voice and Sing but only if DJP's recording is the only authorized version, and all lesser musicians are prohibited from even attempting it.

national anthem should be yes's version of simon's 'america' and fans should be forced to sing steve howe's guitar solo. if they bum a note, they don't really love america, do they?

Neil Diamond's America

Europe's "The Final Countdown"

Still, way too god-centric for irreligious me.

this is a major reason I like "Lean on Me"

The same could be said for "Dude Looks Like a Lady," of course

Also bc I <3 that every American has to sing a descending sixth and then go up to the raised subdominant in the third bar of their anthem xps

100% OTM

star-spangled banner isn't a banger or anything, but i appreciate the anachronisms, SAT words, bizarre syntax, and quaint contractions.

I was just informed that Americans don't actually sing this song with a range of a 12th every morning in school and just recite some pledge instead. I no longer admire the American spirit in taking on this challenge. Now I just want your anthem to be "Don't Stop Believin'" or some shit.

I would vote for "Dude Looks Like A Lady", for president even

Imagine if before every football game, the crowd rose to their feet and gave a solemn rendition of "Goodies" by Ciara

they do this in atlanta already, iirc

#actually the anthem should just be prince's solo on 'while my guitar gently weeps' at the 2004 r&rhof ceremony

the anthem should just be gentle weeping

Also bc I <3 that every American has to sing a descending sixth and then go up to the raised subdominant in the third bar of their anthem xps

Thank you! Also, everyone who can hold their hand's shape in place for more than a few seconds can play the entirety of "Lean On Me" on the piano, which means it is not good and in fact bad.

No, because I don't want "Lean on Me" being sullied by having to be the American National Anthem.

^^that is a good reason!

meanwhile "songs that are easy to play are inferior", if that is indeed the take, baffles me

Acting like you aren't aware of the existence of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkgkThdzX-8

star-spangled banner isn't a banger or anything, but i appreciate the anachronisms, SAT words, bizarre syntax, and quaint contractions.

It's been pointed out that the normally sung lyrics are, grammatically, one really long question.

this writer truly does not understand what an anthem is

― imago, Wednesday, July 15, 2020 9:54 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

He's a guy who writes about music. You may have just seen him in your local bookshop/music paper/Private Eye.

It's been pointed out that the normally sung lyrics are, grammatically, one really long question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cE6Pg2q3lI

in retrospect I should not have included an option that enables voters to make clear they hate america; stacks the deck

He's a guy who writes about music. You may have just seen him in your local bookshop/music paper/Private Eye.

― jaymc, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 16:49 (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

i recanted that one p quickly, mea culpa

It's been pointed out that the normally sung lyrics are, grammatically, one really long question.

I humbly submit "Is That All There Is?" for consideration. Trump loves it iirc so it might even get some backing

Ok but... "What Is Love?" is also a question

Hmm.... Deee-Lite or Haddaway? Or... MASHUP?????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVgasCtUM4s

DJP: mashup, no question

Altho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=w34vnz_LEX4&feature=emb_logo

(never mind, it was Howard Jones fwiw)

"No One is to Blame" does kinda feel like this country's national anthem rn

coming from a country that doesn't really have a national anthem (Scotland) and living my life without having to ever hear an anthem regularly I really don't enjoy the mania for playing national anthems before sporting events in North America. although they're both fairly innocuous and middling as far as anthems go the one-two of o, Canada and the star spangled banner is quite loathsome.

I only like it if I'm running late to a sporting event as it lets me get to my seat before kickoff

echo the Club Nouveau 'loved it and thought it was the original when I was a kid' sentiment up thread.

folks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIOJdMdS56k

oooooh good one

kurt vonnegut once described the national anthem as "gibberish sprinkled with question marks"

"if america remade itself according to the principles of "lean on me," sure

star spangled banner sucks and we've earned it

― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson)"

agree, "lean on me" would be a great anthem for a country founded and governed humanely and on humane principles. america ain't that country, never has been, never will be.

"kurt vonnegut once described the national anthem as "gibberish sprinkled with question marks"

― budo jeru"

yeah but that motherfucker was notorious for hating punctuation

Acting like you aren't aware of the existence of

― Get the point? Good, let's dance with nunchaku. (Eric H.)

i know it exists and it's lame

john lennon wrote and recorded an actual anthem and i endorse it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYKoi122dlg

LAY DOWN THE LAW
SHOUT OUT FOR MORE
BREAKOUT AND SHOUT
DAY IN DAY OUT
BREAKOUT

― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, July 26, 2011

yeah but that motherfucker was notorious for hating punctuation

― Kate (rushomancy)

seriously calling a semicolon a "transvestite hermaphrodite" like that's some kinda fucking insult, go take a flying fuck at a rolling donut kurt

I'm kind of surprised to learn that everyone likes "Lean on Me" this much, tbh.

When I was a child I fell by happenstance into a family situation dominated by Unitarian Universalist thinking. There was a widespread joke that there was a UU hymn that went "the universe loves me, this I know, for my intellect tells me so."

I have often wanted, but never succeeded in finding or composing, an unapologetically secular and yet non-militaristic anthem. I would love it if someone could rescue the laudable sentiment from "America the Beautiful" (roughly, "we're not there yet but let's please at least try to get better").

Paul Simon's "American Tune" has some of the appropriate wistful resonance, but none of the aspiration; and in any case the tune is German (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_Sacred_Head,_Now_Wounded).

how do we feel about this take

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1QJoUxAKU8&t=1m06s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1QJoUxAKU8&t=1m06s

ok sorry

hoping that was an acoustic cover of Love in an Elevator

no just a guy playing acoustic guitar being crushed by an elevator

hawt

i was trying to link to the movie (?) version of this, but here is the quote:

In "Angels in America," Tony Kushner's Pulitzer Prize-winning play, an African-American character named Belize suggests that the difficulty was part of the composer's plan. "The white cracker who wrote the national anthem knew what he was doing," Belize insists. "He set the word 'free' to a note so high nobody can reach it."

It's a great line but also there are thousands if not millions of people who can actually hit that note as long as they start in the right key, so 🤷🏾‍♂️

i always love when a singer miscalculates their starting note on that song. creates such anticipation - will they be able to reach the high notes? will they scream "fuck" on the microphone?

ok that finally makes me think maybe "the star spangled banner" is good

this is my platonic ideal for a Star-Spangled Banner performance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWP8ZJ6674Y

This is pretty spectacular too:

https://youtu.be/8SHnpWohrg0

I find "pomp and circumstance" a bit...pompous and suggest Nelly's "country grammar" as a replacement

one of the few anthems I've heard that approximated Bleeding Gums Murphy's 26 minute version on The Simpsons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf1HMZbTcz0

nothing will EVER beat that hockey game one though.

I love how Kat Deluna breathes about three times in each phrase. my choir teacher would have vivisected her

Also don't sleep on Carl Lewis(!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPhKAQi2hNI

Also don't sleep on Carl Lewis(!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPhKAQi2hNI

Kat Deluna's interpretation of pitch is amazing

I would have said "breathtaking" but she took all of them for me

when i was in college i wrote a column for my university paper arguing that we should replace the national anthem because it was too difficult to sing and the lyrics were militaristic and dumb, and i got an angry two-page letter from the university chief of police telling me i was a bad american.

IRL lols at the "uh oh" on Carl Lewis's

can this be the thread where ILXors all psot their renditions of the SSB

Kat Deluna has some pipes but seems to have pitch control issues, I'll defer to Dang's judgement

Lol xxxp

lol JD

i wish i still had that letter

This one's heartwarming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmQzVQza9Ak

Mo Cheeks was a gentleman during that

This one... is not heartwarming

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNEUekIPrmU

In the related vids:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SHnpWohrg0

What are people's thoughts on the Red House Painters version of the Star Spangled Banner? It's the only version of the anthem that I'll actively seek out and listen to...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QPS1Bs1lIk

Eric, that's the second video I posted!

Write-in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VsmF9m_Nt8

the hendrix thread cited a pretty good academic article on his SSB:

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-the-society-for-american-music/article/this-is-america-jimi-hendrixs-star-spangled-banner-journey-as-psychedelic-citizenship/0029FB312D1A8A9C61C0345C6DB59525

i think it's interesting that he originally titled it "this is america"!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9nnnM-__JQ

almost clicked but nah

thank you all for justifying this poll's existence

Eric, that's the second video I posted!

Ope, scrolled too fast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePQ9_re7f1A

i sang really loud
until i riled up the crowd
and then a horse fell

Can't fuck with this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3qD1jKNYaU

Without consulting social media or even reading the last 40+ posts itt I will now predict three possible reactions to this:

MAGA: Bad message! USA is not about "leaning" on anyone but picking yourself up by the bootstraps and ask not what your country can do for you and blah blah blah

Leftists: Hmm, can we make it say "call on me sister?"

Old libs: Hooray! I love Otis Redding

I keep coming back to Lean On Me has too much sadness and pathos, it's an anthem for truly the end of the world tbh

It reminds me of the argument I had with someone years ago about the end of Orbital’s “Out There Somewhere Pt 2” and how he heard it as indescribably sad because the last melodic theme is made of descending notes, even though the entire coda is in a major key after close to 20 minutes of minor key, which really just goes to show that you can build up as much theorycrafting as you desire around how people respond to musical cues and someone is going to come along to be the glaring exception to conventional wisdom

i think the real problem for "lean on me" as an anthem is that the help we offer when we sing LoM must be freely and sincerely offered for the song to have the meaning it does. once made compulsory, it loses everything. in conclusion the answer is "use me."

Excellent point

*doesn't watch a sporting event w/o belting Go Your Own Way at the top of their lungs first*

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

I only just read the DJP's last post, of course "Out There Somewhere" is impossibly sad, it's longing for infinity and escape

It's tempered with other feelings tho sure

should "Take On Me" replace "Funeral Fog" as the Norwegian national anthem?

should "literally anybody else" replace "burrito" as ILX poster

should "sucking my dick" replace "smoking meth" as your mother's main mouth use

wtf? flagging post.

be sure to get both insults!

well that took a turn.

I'll tell ya who else took a turn... if you know what I mean... and I mean on my dong... like as in took a turn going down on that shit... if you catch my drift... *high fives Austin*

the burrito that defined a generation has been banned permanently again.

*high fives Austin*

listen up, you non-social distancing asshole. . .

A vocal range of an octave plus a fifth is too hard to sing, let’s replace it with a song that has a vocal range of *checks notes* an octave plus a fourth

it's been a minute since I listened to TSSB attentively but it's not just the range that makes it hard to sing right? aren't the intervals a pain in the ass?

The sentiment that "we all need somebody to lean on" is about the least American sentiment I can imagine. Is the hope that we'd help to shift the culture?

that would be one case for it yes

right now, "Lien On Me" would be more likely to succeed

when you're not solvent
i'll loan you cash
with a good APR

Lean On In

it's been a minute since I listened to TSSB attentively but it's not just the range that makes it hard to sing right? aren't the intervals a pain in the ass?

Not really. The intervals are all either step-wise motion or arpeggios within a major key. There’s nothing harmonically challenging in the context of Western/British music. In fact, “Lean On Me” has a larger leap in it where you have to go up a major 10th to transition from the verse to the chorus than anything in the SSB.

not to mention there's something to be said for a piece of music you've heard thousands to millions of times in your life making it easier to navigate the melody, regardless of how challenging it is or isn't.

most people bomb the National Anthem not because the song is challenging, it's because they either a) have bad internal pitch and change keys unintentionally throughout the song, b) pick a key too high which will result in a comedy finish, or c) just can't fuckin' sing.

thanks for the breakdown I was coasting on iffy recall there xp

course, I'm the type of asshole who will yell "flat!" when a quartet is singing it out of tune before a soccer game

I do think the aforementioned descending sixth followed by the raised subdominant in m.3 is more challenging than anything in e.g. "O Canada" or "God Save the Queen".

Couldn't you just go up by a major third rather than a 10th from the verse to the chorus of "Lean on Me".

?

The only reason it has a 'wide range' is because of the registral shift, which can easily be left out without changing anything in the key or harmony. Some notated versions already do this:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/halleonard-pagepreviews/HL_DDS_12696710WwyADl52k.png

I voted keep SSB bc good btw; just don't agree that it would not be harder to sing.

Yeah there's really no reason to sing the first verse in the same octave as Bill does - indeed, when I play it, I do all the verses the same way. But I am not like a muso dude who knows things

song has a much greater impact starting in the lower octave, then jumping, for the first chorus.

Surely but it seems like it would be much easier to adapt for amateur group singing.

It’s definitely harder to sing just because there is a lot more going on melodically; the question was “aren’t the intervals trickier” and my answer is “not really, there are just more of them”

Haha OK

itt: several incredibly accomplished, knowledgeable, well-trained, and talented musicians exhibit very little sympathy for non-musicians

and then I posted some stuff too don't forget

you are a very good singer tho

aw thanks. tbh i wasn't knocking what you said re: starting up an octave. it's just not my personal choice if I was singing it, but...you had a good point!

i'm mostly just catty about people who sing the anthems at sporting events but only cos I'm secretly jealous that I haven't been asked to do it yet!

A worthy addition to the anthem canon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vga0M4ia5Mc

lmao

star spangled banner shreds

I like it with the accompaniment even better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf0dcMH4N5U

i found my new favorite genre of music.

cpac strangled banner

let’s call em “red notes” from now on

Sung in the key of Q flat.

“Tomorrow Belongs To Meme”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqEp-NMeMF8

freeeee EEEeeeeeeeeee

hahahahaha I knew just from the text which accompaniment video you had posted

AMERICA UNCANCELED ok lol

these guys are also great just from a "how did they sing this with a straight face" standpoint

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ-O72WMRKo

jute gyte would approve

chic “everybody dance”

earth wind and fire “sing a song”

most of the songs playing at this airport bar would qualify as great new national anthems to me

Most EW&F songs would be great new national anthems.

otm

dying at the CPAC rendition upthread which I somehow missed. holy shit.

It’s incredible