Before POLLywood - The Go-Betweens - Artist Poll #98 - VOTING THREAD

Before POLLywood! - The Go-Betweens - Artist Poll #98 - VOTING THREAD

http://i64.tinypic.com/cm9z4.jpg

The Go-Betweens are perhaps more 'niche' than many subjects of ILM polls, but they have generated a fair bit of ILX chatter. Admittedly some of that has had a "what's the appeal?" flavour. Maybe we can get slightly closer to an answer to that question.

You are invited to submit any or all of the following:

(1) TOP GO-BETWEENS TRACKS - up to 30, ranked or unranked

Any track released under the Go-Betweens name.

(2) TOP SOLO / SIDE-PROJECT TRACKS - up to 30, ranked or unranked

Anything else released by any enduring Go-Betweens member, preferably where they are credited amongst the songwriters. The most obvious of thse include solo Robert Forster and Grant McLennan material, Tuff Monks, Jack Frost, Cleopatra Wong and Far Out Corporation.

(You could also make a case for Brown or Willsteed's soundtrack work, for instance. But probably not much of Vickers' or Pickvance's bass-playing work in other combos. And I trust you'll agree that, given the fleeting associations, including tracks by the likes of the Apartments, etc, would be casting the net too widely.)

(3) TOP ALBUMS - GO-BETWEENS AND SIDEPROJECTS - up to 10

ANY of the albums! Go-Betweens, side projects and solo efforts are all welcome. There are at least 25 contenders. (I'm inclined to exclude 1978-90, Bella-Vista Terrace, Intermission and Quiet Heart given their 'best of' vibes.)

Ballots to vaticanroulette AT gmail DOT com, with your username. A GB-related subject line would also be helpful.

DEADLINE: provisionally 30th June

Here's a list of known Go-Betweens tracks and (separately) the more obvious side-projects tracks. (Feel free to highlight crucial things I've overlooked.)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KiKylSYrCxGbiLL7G6uF4BnB5Hgczgpxz7zbHCiBfac

I propose a familiar scoring regime that worked okay last time I did this.

For both of the tracks ballots:

RANKED: 40,36,33,30,28,26,25,24,23,22,21,20,19,18,17,16,15,14,13,12,11,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2.

UNRANKED: 17 points for each item. (ie. a 30 track unranked ballot adds up to much the same number of total points as a ranked one. Be aware that points will not be scaled up for shorter unranked lists.)

For albums:

10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.

Typos already. Noooooo...

And yes, I *am* saving up "draining the POLL" for later.

aPOLLogy accepted!

Really excited for this one, although my ballot will be fairly basic. Thankful for the extended voting period!

I should do this, but be warned there will be nothing later than 1988.

"Caroline and I" will make my ballot but yeah me too (excited to re-listen to the post-reunion stuff though)

It's POLLED and dusty in here

sorry I'll stop

This is the canon band I have the biggest blind spot with (practically 100%) so while not contributing I'll be following avidly.

My god, I hadn't thought of those masterful puns!

Anyone with a passing affection for any era, GBs or solo, is encouraged to vote in whatever (sub-)poll(s) might appeal. I have no idea what sort of turn-out to expect, tbh.

It's nice that the word 'poll' has two Ls in it. Did anyone ever ask the band about that album title rule of theirs?

Looking forward to this though it's reminded me that I've barely listened to Send Me A Lullaby. It's not on Spotify (in the UK at least) but I see someone's put it all on YouTube.

I think I'll find space for 2 or 3 of the post-reforming tracks, certainly He Lives My Life.

I only heard 16 Lovers Lane for the first time a month ago but was blown away and intend to get to their other albums. Not sure I'll be able to listen fast enough to vote in the poll but definitely looking forward to the results either way!

oh dear god

I hope I see "You Tell Me" and "I'm Alright" on a few ballots.

prob gonna vote for at least 6 tracks from 16 lovers lane, so 'i'm alright' has a pretty good shot

Controversial opinion: Forster was sharper and tauter as they reached the end of their first run. McLennan reveled in mush, sometimes exquisitely.

You Tell Me has always been a favorite. We once had a cat named Tallulah.

oh awesome, been drip feeding myself go-betweens albums over the past couple of years; basically only listened to oceans apart last month, will be repped heavily on my ballot

bright yellow, bright orange originally came with a 4 song ep one of which was a total gem ("locust girls"). dropboxed it in case anybody's interested since it doesn't seem to be on youtube
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rrymcplbrdihbpn/03%20Locust%20Girls.mp3?dl=0

[Oooh, lots of XPs. Cool]

I too have a soft spot for "Caroline & I". The late tracks I finding myself thinking about between listens are often those that felt like unassuming little sketches a decade ago. "The Mountains Near Dellray" for one. Sometimes "Lavender". Didn't see that coming.

I got the impression the double-L thing was a coincidence up to perhaps Spring Hill Fair or so, before becoming a game. Though I may be misremembering.

by now it's consensus that Oceans Apart is one of their very best, right?

I'd rank them:

Before Hollywood
Tallulah
Oceans Apart
Spring Hill Fair
Liberty Belle
16 Lovers Lane
The Friends of Rachel Worth
BYBO
Send Me a Lullaby

Albums:

16 Lovers Lane
The Friends of Rachel Worth
Liberty Belle and the Black Diamond Express
Oceans Apart
Tallulah
Before Hollywood
Spring Hill Fair
Bright Yellow Bright Orange
Send Me a Lullaby

You Tell Me is terrific. The only song I really love off Tallulah, though The Clarke Sisters comes close.

I'm fascinated to see how this poll turns out as other than Streets of Your Town and Cattle & Cane I've no real idea what'll be in the top 10.

Not sure either of those songs will make my top 10 but they seem to be the most often referenced.

curious what the best regarded solo/side project stuff is, only know (and love) danger in the past

Nothing touches Danger In The Past for me, though Warm Nights is good.

Thanks for posting Locust Girls, outdoor_miner - it's great. Wish it had been on the album.

Forster's The Evangelist is as wonderful as any Go-Be's album.

McLennan's Horsebreaker Star is its match.

I quite liked Forster's Inferno released in March.

Controversial opinion: Forster was sharper and tauter as they reached the end of their first run. McLennan reveled in mush, sometimes exquisitely.

This is definitely not controversial in my household.

Does anyone dig McLennan's In Your Bright Ray? I seemed to see it everywhere but never knowingly heard any of it until the past year. The guitars are pleasingly warm and gooey but I'm still not sure that many of the songs really add up to much.

omfg I'm so excited for this poll

oh cool, this is a new poll! I assumed this was a revive on a poll that had happened in 2007.

Does anyone dig McLennan's In Your Bright Ray? I seemed to see it everywhere but never knowingly heard any of it until the past year. The guitars are pleasingly warm and gooey but I'm still not sure that many of the songs really add up to much.

― Nag! Nag! Nag!

The production -- lumpen, without flair -- does the songs no favors. The title track and "Malibu 69" aren't bad.

I love "In Your Bright Ray", it's what it says on the tin. But, yeah, "Horsebreaker Star" (the full version, not the cut-down US release) is impeccable.

"The Evangelist" is such a unique album, coming out in the wake of Grant's death. It's both a celebration and a mourning of him.

Excited for this poll.

A couple of solo tracks worth hyping

Robert - Baby Stones (though I like the Go-Betweens version better that the original solo version): https://youtu.be/_0s1IiZlD9k

Grant - Easy Come Easy Go: https://youtu.be/sJ9096U897k

"why not do the searching around here and try to involve me?" always makes me giggle a little.

Giving these guys a proper listen today, it's striking how much they improved as they went along -- it's not often that a post-reunion album is a serious contender for best album in a band's discography (whereas the 70's stuff is pretty unremarkable).

I also suspect that people get so rabid about them partially because they never reached their proper level of recognition -- like there's a certain obligation to correct the historical record.
If "Streets of Your Town" was as big a hit as "Under the Milky Way", I'm not sure they would have quite as many ILX cred points.

what

I understand how their fans weaved the band's pathetic sales into the band's mystique -- this was going on in the early '90s if not before. But, uh, fans would've greeted "Streets of Your Town" as a possible hit marvelously -- and it did get airplay.

Look, i'll be the first to admit that it's not as fun to stan for a band once everyone else knows about them.
In any case, I am pretty excited to learn more of their back catalog via this poll.

Thanks for doing this one, Nag! Longtime Go-Betweens fan, never noticed the LL thing before. (Typical.) I hadn't heard about Go Between Bridge, either. Really cool. It has an endearing Wikipedia page. I'm sure my ballot will be lopsided with Forster. First I'll be giving it all a listen. I want surprises.

It's nice that the word 'poll' has two Ls in it. Did anyone ever ask the band about that album title rule of theirs?


Yes, and they said it was unintentional until it was pointed out to them.

My favourite reunion era cut is 'Darlinghurst Nights' from Oceans Apart.

A favourite McLennan solo cut that didn't make it onto Intermission is 'Simone and Perry', the opening track on Horsebreaker Star.

I like "Simone and Perry" too, desite sounding like the theme song for a 1995-era- WB show like, say, "Party of Five."

Does anyone dig McLennan's In Your Bright Ray?

I love all his solo albums, though the one I gravitate to most is "Fireboy." "Horsebreaker Star" has some great songs, but I find it kind of slick in a, yeah, Party of Five sort of way. But I still like it.

Ha -- Fireboy I can't get into much: too many tracks built around title hooks and not much else.

One secret reason for suggesting this poll was to give myself a big incentive to come to terms with GM's solo stuff. Horsebreaker Star was the only album I heard in full in the 90s, and only a handful of times. A year ago a list of Solo GM Songs I Can Remember Well might not even have been as extensive as the Intermission tracklist. It's surely been my strangest blindspot of all.

My preliminary tracks list is evenly split between Forster and McLennan, which seems right for this band where all their good albums are split 50/50.

I wonder how available those solo albums were in the '90s? I remember SPIN loving Horsebreaker Star, but did even Columbia House carry them?

I have scoured many, many thrift store CD bins over the years but I've never come across any group or solo work, in Canada at least.

To come back to Baby Stones, which I adore, this abandoned discography page mentioned a 1991 Forster/McLennan version of it, which piqued my interest. Tracked it down (is actually 1992) and it does list a different running time to the Danger In The Past version (4:30 v 4:08) so am intrigued. Has anyone heard it?

https://i.imgur.com/Uvx7pA5.jpg

Oh, and if anyone has the Baby Stones B-side, The Land That Time Forgot, and thinks it's worth listening to, would love it if they'd be able to Dropbox it.

I had "The Land That Time Forgot" here, it turns out!

https://gofile.io/?c=xluFEZ

Thank you!

xpost Give Fireboy another shot! I love "Surround Me," "The Day My Eyes Came Back,""Dark Side of Town," the epic "Riddle in the Rain" (pretty dark stuff, could it be about drugs?) ... lots of it! The one I remember most from "Horsebreaker" is "Girl In A Beret," which has a pretty good hook.

I thought Riddle In The Rain was about Amanda, with that verse where he makes reference to each member of the first four-piece Go-Betweens line-up: "a reluctant bitter feminist", "a boy with thin wrists", "a tall man with a gift and i'd never been kissed"

"a reluctant bitter feminist

never any love lost between McLennan and Lindy Morrison.

"Horsebreaker Star" also has some tracks with Syd Straw on backing vocals, which in and of itself shows Grant's outstanding taste.

A year ago a list of Solo GM Songs I Can Remember Well might not even have been as extensive as the Intermission tracklist. It's surely been my strangest blindspot of all.

It's like that for me, too. So many of McLennan's songs, both group and solo, have gorgeous chords and textures but few of the kind of melodic or lyrical hooks that readily stick. On Go-Betweens albums, although RF's songs are what I remember best, GM's provide a sort of lush sound bed out of which RF's can emerge with their engaging directness.

In 'Grant and I', Forster explains that, for him, 'Riddle in the Rain' is all about Amanda:

"Most of the songs on the two albums are about Amanda, and those that aren't sound like songs trying not to be about her. It's extraordinary how much she possessed him, and how public he was willing to make his need for her known. (...) 'Riddle in the Rain', sequenced last on 'Fireboy', was his line in the sand. He is still trapped forever - 'But I'm still a long way / I'm not even close / Tell me who do I pay to get rid of your ghost?', as each chorus laments - the tone in the verses swinging between resignation and sarcasm, an attitude her carried in life that surprised people expecting the sincere romantic. With nothing to lose he turns on his subject and the past. 'You rock and roll schoolgirl / You said the mechanism was fixed / You let your lips curl / It's funny how some things stick.' The swoon of the tune has made him reckless. Was this the last twenty-four hours in their home? 'A genuine proposal / A shifting of skin / Then a quick disposal to the cut-off bin.' There's even a fascinating passing take on The Go-Betweens before Amanda joined - on Lindy, Robert, myself and Grant in order: 'A reluctant bitter feminist / A boy with thin wrists / A tall man with a gift / And I'd never been kissed.' The song, played with a guitar strum and vocal I knew so well, sounds like it was recorded live and late at night, Grant dying to get this six-minute-plus epic that he knows is brilliant - an exorcism, a cry of freedom - out of himself and into the world. It's one of his greatest songs, and with a minimal arrangement: Dobbyn lets him go, only trailing an organ to the songwriter's guitar; Grant bursts into focus."

Oh Wow! I am very excited for this one.

xpost there you go then, I bought the book a few weeks ago but must get reading it right away.

As I said upthread I've never heard the reunion albums, so I'm concentrating on the 'classic era'. One of my first impressions on re-listening to those albums, leaving aside the first and "Before Hollywood", is what a succession of ill-judged duds Grant McLennan inflicted on us poor Go-Bs fans! There's one, more often two per album.

I wonder if River of Money will get any votes.

I've got no problem with Grant on Liberty Belle or 16LL myself - like Before Holywood they're pretty much flawless albums to me: even the slighter subs work in context.

Songs not subs.

I hate that "Palm Sunday" song and he overdoes the schmaltz on 16LL - for my taste anyway.

As I said upthread I've never heard the reunion albums,

This is a mistake which you have time to correct. Oceans Apart is a triumph for all concerned, including McLennan, and TFORW is a strong comeback in its own right.

As for 16LL, "Quiet Heart" (better use of the "With or Without You" chord progression than "With or Without You") and "Streets of Your Town" rank among his best.

Love SOYT, cannot abide "Quiet Heart". Each to their own though.

I don't like Quiet Heart at all either, and think I'll rank River of Money quite highly. It's weirdly one of my favourites - guess I like him better when he's sad.

During my first phase of being a fan I also ignored the reunion albums other than a cursory listen to a few tracks once, but more recently I've corrected that and have decided that artistically, it might be the best reunion of any band ever. For so many reasons Grant's death is a tragedy, I hope it's not too selfish to bring up the fact he was producing songs as good as Finding You and Poison In The Walls right near the end and how sad it is there would be no more...

(I take there is not a decent sounding version of Oceans Apart I can illegally download somewhere? Like a vinyl rip?)

Also saw RF cover In the Core of a Flame, which I've always thought was one of those Grant duds, on the latest tour, and he did a good job. It feels more in his wheelhouse.

I hope it's not too selfish to bring up the fact he was producing songs as good as Finding You and Poison In The Walls right near the end and how sad it is there would be no more...

and "The Statue" and "No Reason to Cry"!

all of them, really

During the first decade, did McLennan play lead guitar after 1983? It's hard to tell.

Absolutely, he was the lead guitarist!

Distant xpost but we've already discussed how Robert buries or generally avoids talking in any real detail about Grant's drug use (as well as his own). But there are lots of to my ears drugs/heroin/withdrawal references in Riddle in the Rain, many couched in the common rock song metaphor of a romantic relationship. "well way back in crete and you've got the chills," "i guess there are some holes you don't fill ," "yeah i know this is final and pipes can break and milk can go sour but i'm still waking up with aches at early morning hours," "invaded by pictures of a hospital bed, drips, cuts and stitches and your shaking head, a necessary performance, maybe an exorcism." Coincidence or no, these are exactly *not* the lines that Robert quotes in his book.

Anyway. Worth seeking out duo recordings of "Clouds."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smfT5NvmmWU

Reminds me also of one of my favorite Grant moments, his spellbinding, gorgeous cover of Springsteen's "If I Should Fall Behind:"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWLPMzxSGWs

Robert Vickers commented on the lead guitar situation in the band on the Go-Betweens forum:

"Virtually all the lead guitar you hear on GBs albums is Grant. A lot of his bass playing on the early records are almost lead guitar parts as well. One of the reasons they wanted a fourth member after BH was to free Grant up to play lead giutar. Which he did for until the breakup. Robert occasionally dabbled but seemed happier playing chords and working on a stage persona. A division of labour that I thought worked very well.

Grant almost always played electric and developed a simple, melodic and somewhat emotional style that really worked with the songs. Man O' Sand is my favourite. I'll be interested to see what he does with Darlinghurst Nights live. I like the horns on that track but a nice long Grant solo on the end would have been interesting. I understand Grant likes playing acoustic now and that's the direction of the band, but the more electric he plays the more ideas he comes up, with particularly on Robert's songs. the intro to Spring Rain etc etc. "

The faintly frustrating thing about the lesser songs on the '80s albums is that there was no lack of interesting McLennan tracks amongst B-sides ("This Girl, Black Girl", "Casanova's Last Words", "Newton Told Me") and BBC sessions ("Secondhand Furniture") or completely unreleased at the time ("Emperor's Courtesan", "Apples in Bed", "You Won't Find It Again")

Good to hear xpost. He rarely played lead on his solo albums (the electric part on "Horsebreaker Star" an exception).

Oh man, reminds me how much I like that title track. great album closer.

No-one's mentioned Watershed by name yet. The politeness (?!) of the singles didn't excite me as a silly schoolkid but, while some of the production now sounds very 1991, this one has an awful lot of deep cuts I keep returning to. "Broadway Bride", "Just Get That Straight", "Haunted House", "Stones for You", etc. (Most of which, IIRC, had been destined for the seventh GBs LP that never was.)

TS: Dave Dobbyn vs Mick Harvey. LOL.

"Stones for You" became one of their standards, and I'm fond of "Sally's Revolution."

(I take there is not a decent sounding version of Oceans Apart I can illegally download somewhere? Like a vinyl rip?)

Is there a reason that you want to do so illegally? Because otherwise, the CD is $10, the download is $9, and the 128k stream is free at https://thego-betweens.bandcamp.com/album/oceans-apart

Luke Haines totally ran with 'Broadway Bride' for The Auteurs 'Showgirl'

xpost It is because the CD mastering is the worst I've ever heard on a profession release. I normally don't care too much about these things but it's an absolute abomination. It's probably my least listened to album overall and that has nothing to do with the quality of the music. Single version of Finding You, sounds much less distorted on Spotify.

I'm not merely talking 'brickwalled', it's basically ruined.

Ah - in that case I’d doubt that any vinyl edition in 2005 was mastered separately. Try the stream and see, though?

This ten-year-old fansite thread says the UK label did a second pressing at the time & would replace yr CDs, but it was only able to get the situation down to “distorted” from “horribly distorted”

So, weirdly, the Locust Girls song posted upthread is available on Spotify (UK) but titled Ashes on the Lawn, from the Worlds Apart EP:

https://open.spotify.com/track/6OhZNKHWswXlFpUPjty9Ub?si=mf4B8JROTJKqRMKf2cC9RA

I wonder if that's a fuck-up or whether that's an alternative name for the track.

Well that's interesting. Those EP tracks are the only officially-released GBs tracks I've never heard. Maybe that's effectively only two unheard tracks rather three then! :)

With the lead guitar, it said on the 16 Lovers Lane documentary that John Willsteed overdubbed a lot of guitar parts onto 16 Lovers Lane.

Yeah, the nylon-string solo on "Streets..." is famously Willsteed's. And the various stacked "mandolin-like" [his words, IIRC] concoctions, etc. He gets quite emotional about how much he was allowed to contribute and his enduring fondness for the record in the Right Here documentary. Which was interesting given his fabled abrasiveness during that period.

I knew the fancier guitar parts weren't McLennan, couldn't remember who played them though. Love his lead work though.

The leisurely deadline is another two weeks away but here's a BUMP for anyone who might have overlooked it.

Working on it.

On the matter of non-virtuosic guitar parts, I always liked the repeated two-note licks on this b-side I already mentioned. (And McLennan's talk-y singing, for that matter.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk_TWaznR_k

Love that track, it's on my long list.

I think it's virtually the first thing they did they did with Vickers on bass, so I guess that's the birth of McLennan as official lead guitarist right there. :)

He plays lead guitar on the first album!

Not as "official lead guitarist" though. :) Guitar on three tracks by the look of it. Interesting.

Other thing I can't believe I only just noticed: Stewart Lee wrote sleeve notes for the 2002 issue.

Not sure how I failed to realise it was Amanda Brown playing violin on this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2R-dV6uwYk

I think I have my top 30 Go-Betweens songs and my albums list ready. Just need to work on the solo/side projects part now.

These guys really are the best.

Didn't realise that Westlake played a BBC Janice Long session in 1987 backed by Brown, Forster & Vickers. (xpost)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSwA4zCZXVk

starting to worry that these songs are all Too Good and therefore impossible to rank

Go Betweens done in by choice paralysis.

More like Can’t-Choose-Betweens amirite

These Servants/Westlake revelations perhaps shouldn't be surprising. I seem to recall the 1990 Servants LP sounding like possibly the only record ever modelled on Send Me a Lullaby.

I just listened to Send Me A Lullaby for the first time, and did not have a good time. Any tips on what's good about it?

Er, Lindy's drumming?

It's a fascinating disaster.

Sometimes I think I'm the only person in the world who likes Send Me A Lullaby. I'm biased; it's an album that changed my life in lots of little ways. I wrote an article about it at 16 for a site with loose connections to this one, and that led to a few fun years writing about music. Years later, I named my dating profile after a track off the album thinking no one would recognise it. I met one guy who did and we ended up living together. I associate the album with romantic folly and sadness; it's a really teenage record, all fumbles and mistakes.

To me it sounds wonderful and trembly and vulnerable, if a little overlong. Grant's songs are gorgeous and sad, and Eight Pictures is one of Robert's best lyrics. It's just post-punk weirdly worn by traditional songwriters who didn't suit it - a necessary growth spasm to get to Before Hollywood. I still like it better than great swathes of 16 Lovers Lane.

I quite like it. Though a couple of tracks are downright ugly and it may have been better as an eight-track mini album like the original Aus issue. (A slightly different selection of eight tracks. eg. 'Eight Pictures' wasn't on that, insanely.)

I sometimes wonder what it would have been like if they'd gone to John Brand an album earlier and captured some prettier vocal takes.

Agree with that - though I find it hard to forgive them for that one track with the worst sax playing I've ever heard in my life.

You could argue that The Wave Pictures based their entire career on Eight Pictures

yes! their cover of it is so good.

The weird thing about that saxophone is that it was played by this bloke, who was, unsurprisingly, rarely (ever?) credited as a saxophonist anywhere else. There's at least one interview where the GBs giggled about having a proper pop star guesting on their record.

Ride is my main keeper on Send Me A Lullaby. I've always found it so odd that it's such a weak and confused sounding record as they'd already put out some great singles before it (Hammer The Hammer, Karen, I need Two Heads). It's not like they hadn't learnt to write good songs by then, it's just they didn't pick their best material.
.

BUMP! Just over a week until the arbitrary and not particularly rigid end-of-the-month voting deadline.

So I downloaded what purports to be the "Worlds Apart" EP and "Ashes On The Lawn" sounds just like "The Locust Girls".

Also discovered some other heretofor unknown Go-B's b-sides:
https://www.discogs.com/The-Go-Betweens-Here-Comes-A-City/release/11021483

1 Here Comes A City 3:22
2 Erotic Sunshine 3:11
3 Stone 4:23

Anyone heard the latter two?

Just going through some of their solo works. I honestly could vote for every song on The Evangelist. It's such a special album.

And it's getting a vinyl reissue in a couple of weeks. Will definitely be picking that up.

I have to think some more about solo stuff. Just got around to entering my (GB) tracks. Every album but one is represented. And I just realised I included 5 consecutive tracks from one of them!

Have received just a handful of others so far, so any given ballot may well have the power to seriously skew the distribution!

Ballot sent! 9 albums represented, really surprised myself there

Even found room for non-album singles (Hammer the Hammer/Rock and Roll Friend) and STILL feel like I barely scratched the surface. So so many great songs

My focus is pretty narrow, but there's still too many good songs to choose only 30. I've only got two RF solo albums so I'm not going anywhere near that poll.

It's not that I think the solo work is better but I've found the process of whittling down to 30 harder. Nearly there.

Before Hollywood is tricky though. I like it almost as much as Liberty Belle but when it comes to picking individual tracks it's harder to pick standouts.

That Way, or nothing at all

another song with a killer McLennan opening line

Yes, I think there are standouts on that album!

Think it's harder to pick from the Forster songs on that one. What are the favourites? I think Ask and By Chance for me.

MAKE MEEEE LAH-SSST

The caretakers kept, he's to be fired soon...

Yes, On My Block is the one that's made a late entry for me.

Lot of great endings to songs on Before Hollywood. That Way, On My Block, the title track... all just kind of circling away around a repeated lyric. I love it.

"Before Hollywood" itself is particularly good for that IMHO. It's almost like three distinct songs go by before they lock into the final "they'll do they can to hold you doooown" chant. It nevertheless feels like it's all building up to that.

Er, "do WHAT they can".

Is it a breach of etiquette to open polls to people who are not yet ILXors? I kinda feel like mentioning it on the long-standing GB forum.

Go for it, I say: the solo tracks poll in particular could do with a good number of people across all the albums.

Opening ILX to people who are not ilxors seems like a good idea in general to me

Haha! I posted to said forum. Or it entered moderator queue, at least.

Still plenty of time, but mine is presently the only data in my little solo work spreadsheet. Save ILM from a countdown of my own oddball selections!

Anyone who wants to make a list should be able to make a list.

I suspect a moderator squashed my forum post. Anyway...

Does anyone actually like "Cut It Out"? I can't quite bring myself to listen to it, even for this exercise.

I really love the harmonies/backing vocals leading into the chorus, but then the chorus itself ruins the momentum and falls flat. I definitely don't agree with Robert that it's the worst song they ever did though. Not when River Of Money exists.

Ha! I don't mind "River".

I think I said elsewhere that I'm not even that fond of "Right Here". It too sounds a little like it's waiting for the chorus to be fleshed out IMHO. But it's not hard to imagine a slightly different Tallulah (without Craig Leon tinkering, for starters) which is the best thing ever. Today side 2 sounded like possibly their best half-album as it is!

In other news this process has clarified for me that Forster's Calling From a Country Phone still stands up rather well. It's officially on my LPs ballot now.

Ah, my forum post was published. Greetings to any go-betweens.org.uk messageboard folk who may have followed the link! :)

(xp) I bought it at the time and didn't think much of it but it's pretty good.

Forster's album of cover versions, I Had A New York Girlfriend, will be on my LPs ballot. He seems much more comfortable collaborating with other people - and in this case with other people's tunes - than as a solo artist.

I'm tempted to think that Forster needed McLennan more than McLennan needed Forster: McLennan seemed comfortable in carving out a post-split solo career (plus work with Jack Frost + The Far Out Corporation), whereas Forster's best work after 16 Lovers Lane definitely came in the re-formed Go-Betweens albums. I was surprised that I've got more McLennan tracks than Forster tracks in the solo poll so far, although McLennan was obliviously much more prolific (sometimes at the expense of quality control).

Strongly disagree with that conclusion, for Danger in the Past and The Evangelist serve as refutations.

I've never gotten into any solo Robert. Maybe I'll give him another listen this week.

A good moment to say how much I enjoy Songs To Play, which I've only listened to since this poll started. Lighter than The Evangelist but Let Me Imagine You and I Love Myself (And I Always Have) are pure Robert.

I had gone into this assuming I was mainly a fan of the Forster songs, but the more I dig in, I'm realizing that I might actually be Team McLennan.
(also, full disclosure: before typing the above sentence, I always thought his name was McLellan. so what do i know.)

You don't have to choose!

that's good because i have trouble telling them apart

Oh man, Tallulah is WAY better than I remembered

I hadn't listened to any of the solo albums before this poll. They're all kinda whizzing by, without catching much of my attention. "Demon Days" is a great song, that one's stuck. I'll skip that part of the poll & try to work my way in off the results, I guess.

XP, so does christgau:

McLennan's workaday singer-songwriter chops and Forster's low-pitched demo-style near-recitative were so short on recognition factors that even fans had to concentrate to figure out who was at the mike.

The Liberty Belle album makes it pretty easy to distinguish.
Forster sings Spring Rain
McClennan sings Ghost and the Black Hat

Tallulah has always been my favourite, which I consider 'perfect', discounting the fact that Cut It Out begs SKIP ME and Someone Else's Wife is a momentum-killer

The last minute of "Someone Else's Wife" is good, the rest of it is possibly worse than "Cut It Out".

Wait, people have trouble telling their voices apart!??

Yeah I don't get it.

I don't get the trouble distinguishing the Cars' singers either.

"Someone Else's Wife" is one of Mclennan's best songs. Tallulah stinks of sex.

I don't hate Someone Else's Wife at all, just unconvinced by its placement

in general, i know that mclennan is a bit more theatrical, forster a bit flatter and talk-y. it usually takes me a bunch of listens to figure out who is who though.

especially since they have lots of moments where they switch roles (e.g. dive for your memory for forster, cattle and cane for mclennan)

Distinguishing the Cars singers is at least a little bit challenging, if you don't know who is doing what.

Seeing as I started paying attention when they'd fairly recently disbanded, things like "Easy Come, Easy Go" and the chorus of "Every Hour God Sends" (which seemed like actual hits if one listened to JJJ at all) served as handy reference points for McLennan-ness. Not sure I knew they even had a second singer until I realised "Spring Rain" was also by the Go-Betweens!

I used to think I Just Get Caught Out was Grant. But he is quite Grant-like on it, isn't he?

^ I can hear that!

I think I'm mainly slow to realise it's McLennan circa SMAL where one mostly expects Forster to be singing. (Even on a McLennan composition, in the case if "Your Turn, My Turn".) And on several slightly shouty early '80s outtakes with a call and response type of thing.

Had no idea Your Turn, My Turn was a Grant song with a Robert vocal! I had trouble telling them apart at the start, but it's quite clear now. Grant's melodic and warm even when he's talking, Robert is thin and desperate.

Speaking of which, I've been listening to the single version of Man O'Sand To Girl O'Sea a lot. What a performance. You can hear the sweat dripping off him.

Having only heard 16 LL and Liberty Belle, I have no clue who sings what, but I also haven't really tried to discern. "Quiet Heart" and "Streets of Your Town" are McLennan, right? Had a similar problem with the Cars for a while, but now the difference between Ocasek and Orr is clear as day

Is it a breach of etiquette to open polls to people who are not yet ILXors? I kinda feel like mentioning it on the long-standing GB forum.

i actually did do this for the Boo Radleys poll. i got one whole person from the bravecapatin board to actually submit a ballot but the thread did get some responses:

http://www.bravecaptain.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3203&sid=0b0cc72c838823bad2fcabbaf69eb7ef

*note i was actually a regular on that board so i didn't feel like i was breaking etiquette on that board when i posted the thread. i also heard Martin Carr took interest in the poll but don't know for sure...

Aaah, okay, cool.

Incidentally, I'm not going to demand strict adherence to the original end-of-the-month deadline. There are already two big poll rollouts in progress on ILX, so it seems unwise to schedule yet another until well into next week. May as well let that additional day or two be extra voting time if anyone needs it.

two? i only know of the Ambient one. i wish Toumas used the coordination thread for that poll, because only one of these should be going on at a time. maybe i'm just too old school.

There's a 2018-in-cinema one on ILE too. I'm vaguely following both, so I'm a bit distracted myself!

Wait, people have trouble telling their voices apart!??

Exactly what I thought, I don't think they sound very similar at all.

Of course, once they get into their stride, their lyrics are very different too.

This is one of the early '80s shouty tracka where I thought I remembered their voices blurring together somewhat. But I was wrong. Yelping McLennan still doesn't sound much like the Forster echoing him. :)

https://gofile.io/?c=RqRHpe

Timbres are different, though I suppose there's not much difference I terms of pitch - they could comfortably sing each other's songs.

... also phrasing and emphasis, Forster's is much more quirky and distinctive.

Their vocals are definitely a bit tricky to tell apart on the stuff that came before Before Hollywood, when they both did a similar post-punky yelp.

"Quiet Heart" and "Streets of Your Town" are McLennan, right?

Yep. Most of their best known '80s singles were McLennan, I guess. Notable exceptions being "Spring Rain", "Head Full of Steam" and "Part Company". Being a Forster person -- if I did have to choose -- I now feel the need to point out that this is not the same thing as "their best '80s songs".

Speaking of which, people have seen The Best Promo Video Ever right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HufrsUMIBA

Fun facts: 75 different tracks have received votes so far. The number voters at this stage is still pretty modest, such that three moderately weighted votes is enough to get a track into the top 30. Later voters can still make a huge difference to the outcome this time.

Yeah, i always thought that the Head Full of Steam video goes a long way towards explaining why they never broke out to a bigger audience.

Anyway, entry submitted.
Highest ranking song which I discovered because of this poll = "The Clock"

Highest ranking song which I discovered because of this poll = "The Clock"

― enochroot

The Clock is one of my favourites. One of the best choruses of all time.

gonna submit a ballot, just torturing myself with the ordering.

do you accept mixed ballots?

I suppose a mixed ballot would be okay. With the balance from 517 distributed evenly in the second section.

What's the deadline? Go-Betweens are my favorite band but I've been slammed at work and non-work. Trying to do a solo records ballot too but it's taking some time to brush up.

Any time through to the first half next week would be good. I'm happy to wait a bit if it means a bigger pool of voters.

I'm going to get mine in soon. Been listening quite a bit

Meanwhile I'll lobby for things that haven't been mentioned. :)

The aborted Beserkley single with whathisname from the Apartments adding guitar:

https://youtu.be/0NjbFFSqiV0

Okay, the ambient rollout is likely to finish on Tuesday. Not keen on a rollout here until at least Wednesday [GMT+10] in that case. Feel free to tinker with ballots until then and I'll check how people are going when I wake on Wed morning.

Really appreciate you extending the deadline. I made my 30 Go-Betweens songs into a playlist and listened to it a few times this week. I'm happy with my picks (for now). The harder part is the solo material. I prefer Robert's solo stuff on the whole, but I just played In Your Bright Ray and there were at least five songs that could make my list.

I voted for multiple Ray tracks myself, which seemed improbable a little while ago. And, without giving much away, I certainly haven't been alone.

BUMP! Final days. Everything must go, etc, etc.

Any love for this one? It eventually became a 16LL-era b-side but this 1985 BBC recording is largely responsible for its place on my ballot. McLennan is a bit shoutier here and it's more obviously Morrison playing rather than a drum machine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im_rZY8jbSw

^ Janice Long session was actually recorded 9/4/86, he says, pre-empting the fact-checkers.

I would totes pay money for a proper, comprehensive, all-in-the-one-place ...at the BBC-type release. (Consider: http://go-betweens.net/gb/gbbbc.htm )

Ballot sent. Ranked but I didn't add the numbers myself as I remember Gukbe once saying it made doing the spreadsheet more fiddly.

(can send again with the 1-30 numbers if you have a different data entry technique)

No, that's fab! Cheers!

I’ll fire in a ballot too - will just do GB’s as I don’t feel I’ve listened to the solo stuff enough for a meaningful contribution.

should be able to get a ballot in by weds!

I love "Casanova's..."!

You should definitely vote then! :)

(You clearly should anyway. The solo sub-poll needs your grasp of that material, at the very least. Hehe.)

Almost made my poll, only removed relatively late on in the process.

Just re-listening to Forster's Inferno from earlier this year. I wasn't that keen on the single, but the rest of it is really lovely. I'll definitely be voting for a couple of tracks in the solo works poll.

I'll Look After You in particular is a really beautiful track.

Submitted!

will do so in an hour

Voted!

Thanks for the emails overnight [Melb time], by the way. Total number of votes is starting to look rather good now. I'll collate and acknowledge receipt in the next few hours.

Incidentally, if any emails over the last few weeks were met with an eerie silence then something may have gone wrong.

I also should reiterate that, with the ambient rollout still choogling along, there's plenty of time left if you're still deliberating.

sent!

Gonna get a ballot together tomorrow, somehow

me too!

BUMP!

Scrolling up, there are quite few people early in the thread I've not heard from, ballot-wise. There is still time. You know you wanna! :)

just submitted, could've tinkered forever.

Sent!!

Far too late for effective lobbying, but here's another relatively obscure McLennan contribution that's on my ballot. (Possibly the last chance to mention it as I doubt we'll see in the rollout. LOL) As far as I can tell, this went completely unheard until the '00s reissues. Which is a shame because, for one thing, the middle eight does weird things to my brain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BZhBWaqqZ8

Oh that's a gem, it'll be on my ballot too. It amazes me this and Newton Told Me got discarded while songs like Slow Slow Music made it onto records. How good an album could Spring Hill Fair have been otherwise?!

I didn't have time to listen to more than two of their albums so I'll just be following the results rather than voting. But I am getting better at telling their voices apart so there's that. Forster seems more pitchy

XP:

Okay, setlist.fm suggests they played it live at least twice in late '83. So not completely unheard. #FactCheck

I almost said the same thing re "Slow Slow Music"!

'Pitchy' is not unfair, I'd say. :)

I don't even mean it pejoratively - I like a lot of singers with character like that

The Evangelist was well-represented in my solo ballot.

I don't think it's too much of a spoiler to say that you have a fair bit of company in that part of my spreadsheet.

Yeah, my list was very Evangelist heavy. It was hard not to vote for every song from it.

As you said upthread, it's a special record.

Will send a ballot tomorrow... life has been getting in the way

Cool. 20-something seems a respectable voter pool. I think we're a whisker under that at this instant, with several still promised.

Sorry - I will get mine in tomorrow!

voted :)

just working on my ballot, will have it in by tomorrow!

a particular g-bs delight, forster's delivery of 'frank brunetti' on darlinghurst nights

can i still send a ballot? i wouldn't be ready before thursday.

Okay, can you make it relatively early on Thursday? eg. before midday GMT?

a particular g-bs delight, forster's delivery of 'frank brunetti' on darlinghurst nights

― devvvine

Love this! My all time favourite delivery of his has to be, "listen Jack, don't you know, I'm a star" in Twin Layers Of Lightning.

Bru-ne-tti.

With the ambient rollout now over it's time to try to start wrapping this up. After 3+ weeks substantial extensions can get a bit tedious, IMHO.

I've received 24 or 25 ballots. As far as I know we're mainly waiting for SA, that's not my post and perhaps alex in mainhattan if he can be quick! I'm not entirely sure which "tomorrow" the former two meant, come to think of it! :)

Also, Alfred and Jazzbo ranked the (GB) albums very early in the thread. I'm tempted to record them as ballots! What say you?

I sent you a ballot, though.

Yep. But no albums, IIRC!

Voted

oh!

sent

Thanks folks!

My ballot will be sent this evening (UK time). Will that be OK?

Oooh, whoops, you're one I overlooked upon re-scanning the thread earlier!

Okay, yep!

Actually let's try a more concrete deadline of 11:59PM Wednesday 3rd. GMT <-- Yep GMT, not Hawaii time, or whatever.

That's Thursday morning for me. Hopefully I can then just do final data entry and start the rollout late Thursday/early Friday [my time] when ILX is somewhat active.

FYI, Thursday is a holiday in the US (though not sure how many american GB fans there are, to be fair).

The 4th of July? Since when has that been a holiday?

This didn't occur to me! Thanks. Weekends are rarely fantastic either. Maybe I should just squeeze album results in some time before the weekend. And save most of it until Monday.

Save it all til next week imo

I’ll have mine in before the hard deadline.

I could’ve done the Go-B’s section by memory but this solo album stuff is taking some time. Aside from Inferno, I hadn’t listened to any of it in forever. Going through it now it is kind of mind blowing listening to In Your Bright Ray and Warm Nights and then realizing Friends Of Rachel Worth was what came next. Obviously there’s the total indie rock production happening on that record, but also the songwriting from each of them is so different, and better in my opinion. It really gives credence to their claim of writing songs together and giving each other comments throughout the process. Forster seems to steer McLennan into a less corny Party Of Five direction and McLennan adds badass guitar parts that really take Forster’s songs up a notch.

I do think Grant was shooting for proper VH1 mainstream success during his solo career, hence the occasional Party Of Five-ness

I've come out of this poll obsessed with The Friends of Rachel Worth.

By the way, the three tracks from Oceans Apart do sound much better and less compressed on the Quiet Heart compilation.

And, from the Go-Betweens board:

Posted on Friday, September 22, 2017 - 08:32 am:
On Robert's Facebook : "Yes, the work on 'G Stands for Go-Betweens Volume 2 1985-89' has begun. Monasteries are being combed for late 80's Go-Betweens photo sessions, tape vaults are being catalogued, shadowy people are breaking their silences. There is a way to go - but we are on our way."

Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2017 - 09:40 pm:
I asked Robert last night in Berlin about Vol. 3 and Oceans Apart and he told me they WOULD remix it for this...

http://go-betweens.org.uk/chatroom/messages/1/22562.html?1551428519

Rad. Oceans Apart is nearly unlistenable to me because it's so slammed. It is not of my albums list and none of its songs make an appearance on my songs list!

that's insane.

I've never dismissed an album because of rotten production; there's too many bangers on OA.

Hahaha I think we may have discussed this before in another Go-Betweens thread. You love that album, right? I hate listening to the mix of it. I still like it, but it's easily my least favorite out of all of them. And I don't understand the love for it. I don't see how the songs are anywhere near as good as 16 Lovers Lane songs, which to me is what Oceans Apart is kind of going for. But to each their own!

Just took a dip into the Oceans Apart, to make sure I didn't need to put some of these bad boys in my poll submission. Whew... that is the sound of digital clipping. That lead guitar on Darlinghurst Nights. Holy crap. Horrendous sound.

For the record the following Oceans Apart songs made my long list, but not high enough to make my top 30:
Born To A Family
Darlinghurst Nights
Boundary Rider
Finding You
Here Comes A City

Oceans Apart is easily top 3 for me, I struggled to not over-represent it on my ballot. For years I thought I'd ripped my sister's CD at super low quality, but listened elsewhere for this poll and, well, I guess it's always playing through tracing paper and/or from the radio. But knowing it can't be fixed helped me make amends with the sound. Beginning a career with the parched Send Me A Lullaby and ending with an album so drenched and sibilant makes a certain kind of sense.

there's an uncompressed (or at least less compressed) OA out there.

Some day my prince will come...

hit me up at tywilc AT gmail and i'll send it over

Ballot sent. Had 70 tracks on my long list. Heck of a time whittling it to 30. Had to cut Spring Rain!?!? Probably a bad decision.

Actually let's try a more concrete deadline of 11:59PM Wednesday 3rd. GMT <-- Yep GMT, not Hawaii time, or whatever.

Already said it, but if anyone has a rip of that less compressed version please help find a way for me to get it. Don't really want to wait 5 years for the box set

Wow, the Quiet Heart masterings sound a million times better! Thank you for the tip.

Grrr, the app ate my rather long post...

I think I will go ahead with an albums rollout this week. Certainly not not tracks though.

So, alex in mainhattan, feel free to ponder tracks ballots further while I fiddle with albums data. I'll close the gate on the latter in a couple of hours. I really need some of the numbers to stop jiggling around as near-obessive re-sorting of preliminary numbers will shortly drive me bonkers. :)

I've come out of this poll obsessed with The Friends of Rachel Worth

same! i was lazy and didn't do a ablums ballot but woulda been my #1

Ballot sent! Hopefully 'I'm alright' for time?

Yep. All fine and dandy.

I think that's ~28 submissions now. About 100 tracks mentioned in each of the tracks ballots, IIRC. And 20-something different LPs.

Okay, apart from alex in mainhattan possibly submitting tracks in coming hours, it's time to close this.

I've finalised the album votes. I'll roll that out on or around Friday.

Late ballots have fleshed out the solo/side-project results nicely. They certainly warrant a fairly major countdown in their own right, something that seemed less certain early on.

Heck of a time whittling it to 30. Had to cut Spring Rain!?!?

Oh wow. That's too much. Tracks I've been regretting excluding: One Thing Can Hold Us, Rare Breed, Too Much of One Thing.

give me four hours and i am done, sorry for being so late.

Sent!

I can get one in v shortly as well, on a similar timeframe

Looking forward to this!

LOL. Okay, Simon H, but be quick. Album numbers are already set in stone now as I shall roll them out very soon. Tracks only at this point. You'll have to be the very last.

sent!

:)

Okay, absolutely 100% closed now. I think that's a total of 31 submissions.

Incidentally, a fair few voters self-indentifed as 'lurkers' or very occasional posters. The rollout thread should be a safe space for de-lurking, I think. Gratuitous TOO LOWs are actively encouraged, for starters. :)

'self-identifed' obv. I this swear this app somehow increases my already high rate of typos.

RESULTS:

Draining the POLL for you - ILM artist poll #98 - The Go-Betweens