what are barack obama's flaws?

arrogance

i was looking at these synopses of all the right wing anti-clinton books & thinking damn i actually agree with all the personal clinton armchair psychology stuff - dishonesty, lack of principle, general cowardice. at the time (i was like 10) i didnt believe that shit, just thought it was partisan & desperate - basically true i guess - but switched my understanding of clinton up after i read the shitty hitchens book, and now after the the obama stuff in the primaries most liberals agree with right-wing/national review types about this shit. so when obama becomes president are there any character flaws we'll look back on in 10-15 years and think man the republicans were actually right about that? is this genuinely different?

too handsome

Scary name.

faith in his friends

Not that I give a shit, but a 'flaw' in terms of some people think it's a reason to be suspicious of him.

too black, too strong.

^ beat me to it

ok oily but we arent going to look back in 10 years and be like this guy was actually only okay. if only his name was jim scott. the point of this thread isn't "why won't racist people vote for him"

you guys are missing the point

haha rly

poor bowling form

overconfidence in the electorate's willingness to assume civic responsibility

probably has a clogged pore or two

In that case, all this 'bipartisanship' talk makes me worry he'll let the plutocrats walk all over him in the name of unity. It's too early to tell, of course. The problem is, I'm guilty of being a little star struck by the dude and his speeches and advisors and stuff, so I'm probably missing important defects. So maybe that's a flaw, too.

too cool

yeah, basically

Born in the wrong country at the wrong time.

Both Hillary and McCain would be "good" Presidents, especially in comparison to the current Commander-In-Chief, but neither of them are in the same league as Obama.

Oh yeah, he's also an elitist, as the children of single moms tend to be.

Wife seems like a dick.

Better writer than every single last one of his critics and most of his supporters.

Dave Matthews endorsement.

Trick move in pickup b-ball is to fake to the right, plow in hard to the left. No symbolism there at all.

i actually wish people would take this thread seriously; i didnt realize it wasnt about electability & i think the answer is probably the same either way (we dont know yet), but even tho im behind the guy 100% & have been for months my gut says myself & probably a lot of people here are gonna be dissatisfied with him 4-8 years down the road. a discussion of concrete reasons why this might be so seems worthwhile to me

foreign policy naivete. biggest thing that worries me about him by far. if he gets elected, pulls us out of iraq, closes gitmo, and restores civil liberties to their pre-9/11 status, and then ta-da something actually blows up, how many times is he going to say "uh um" during the press conference in which he capitulates to the chickenhawks in both parties screaming for his head

thank u deeznuts i am serious about like actual clintonesque character defects not more empty lolz how everybody except us is superficial & racist

what elmo and tom said, basically--the dude comes across as too trusting in america's ability to be smart about shit

not good at speaking for 10 second clips on the 6 o clock news

hard to say but i think he believes his own hype at this point

messiah complex (likely to evolve into martyr complex)

yeah what max/tombot/elmo said fourthed.

might not be able to tame congress and end up like Clinton in 1994

Also a bit of what deez said - I'm worried he's setting himself up to disappoint everyone.

has convinved people like me to be largely uninterested in this question

He has a bit of this tendency to come off like "I fully understand this problem because I've read many essays about it." Which makes me like him and wince at the same time.

if he gets elected, pulls us out of iraq, closes gitmo, and restores civil liberties to their pre-9/11 status, and then ta-da something actually blows up, how many times is he going to say "uh um" during the press conference in which he capitulates to the chickenhawks in both parties screaming for his head

It's hard to see how staying in Iraq is helping to prevent domestic terrorism. Even McCain wants to close Gitmo. I doubt civil liberties will go all the way back to pre-9/11 status, and not sure if Obama is even suggesting that they should

has convinved people like me to be largely uninterested in this question

-- gabbneb, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 8:55 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

shock of shocks

what elmo and tom said, basically--the dude comes across as too trusting in america's ability to be smart about shit

-- max, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 8:48 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

i really want to believe this is true, but it sounds the kind of bs that be lipped by his supporters - his flaw is that he's TOO right about everything? ill take that.

foreign policy naivete. biggest thing that worries me about him by far. if he gets elected, pulls us out of iraq, closes gitmo, and restores civil liberties to their pre-9/11 status, and then ta-da something actually blows up, how many times is he going to say "uh um" during the press conference in which he capitulates to the chickenhawks in both parties screaming for his head

-- El Tomboto, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 4:45 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

this is more lol gwb put u in a jackpot sry!

i am really curious as to what hes gonna do w/the gitmo dudes who we have evidence against thats inadmissible due to torture tho

i wonder about his ability/willingness to get his hands dirty and wrestle things to the ground. saying you're willing to talk to iran/hamas/whoever is all well and good, but if you go into those situations you have to go in saying, "here's the deal: you can get this and this, you can't get this and this, and we're going to have to fight about this and this -- but if the fight goes on too long, you get nothing." the bushies have been terrible at that stuff, so it's not like the bar is set particularly high, but it would be nice to have someone who can actually get some things done. (wouldn't have to be him personally, but he'd need some hardball players around who knew how to do that.) (same applies in dealing with congress, obviously.)

deex -- i didn't say he's overly correct, but i think he may be presumptuous that America will be eager or grateful about implementing the changes he wants

also I am dead serious that his uh um uh tic that he has when you can tell he's thinking on his feet is really not reassuring at all

he actually comes across as a guy who would be an absolute expert at that kind of stuff to me tipsy

yah he def should cut that out xp

nodding slowly and looking thoughtful is the way to go

his uh um uh tic that he has when you can tell he's thinking on his feet

this doesn't bother me so much -- it's campaign season and he has to be excruciatingly calculating about his diction. when he speaks off the cuff he gets in trouble, but really only because he running for office

or alternatively quit being so optimistic about your fellow humans that you keep getting surprised by shit, like Wright dropping an atom bomb on you on national television

xp Still, I think Hillary is a better extemporaneous speaker.

his almost musical hand-gesture of 'conducting' a discussion / 'putting a fine point' on an argument

it's like the new bubba remote

I don't think Tom's point is that Obama is going to cause terrorism to happen, just that when it does he's going to look bad.

you guys all seem to think obama waaaaaaaaay less pragmatic than i do, i guess

I actually HOPE he's more cynical and pragmatic than I'm giving him credit for.

eh tom did begin his post w/"foreign policy naivete." soo...

I don't think Tom's point is that Obama is going to cause terrorism to happen, just that when it does he's going to look bad.

-- Hurting 2, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:18 PM (9 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

isnt this precisely cuz its easy to paint him as a pussy/pushover, which you guys all seem to be buying into?? i think hes far from either of those things. and i dont mean to draw this into electability issues, just that im more interested in what might be lurking behind the 'optimist' facade

i mean, this guy is naive?? he comes across as a freaking borderline genius to me

The Bush adminstration has done so much to restore if not empower the executive branch that I doubt President McCain, Clinton, or Obama would be so eager to rescind those powers -- why would you?

I wish he was an atheist -- with his oratorical skills he could do lots for the millions of us who want to hear a convincing defense of godlessness put to theists. And yet, and yet, I suspect he IS less of a god-fearing man than he pretends. Something about his preternatural coolness bespeaks a kind of deism.

might not be able to tame congress and end up like Clinton in 1994

Can't see that happening. He's got too many friends there already on both sides. Senators apparently luv the dude.

xp Still, I think Hillary is a better extemporaneous speaker.

unless you ask her about bill's position on nafta and she goes into that uncomfortable cackle that's soooo painful to watch.

just a little armchair psychoanalysis, let's all be cool

its funny how everyone buys the optimist/naivety package - its a symptom of dumb cynicism - those two really dont have to come together

in fact i bet that obama is closer to the optimist/cynic model

its funny how everyone buys the optimist/naivety package

^^^. The right wing has been all "SEE? SEE? AUDACITY OF HOPE MY ASS!" the last couple of weeks; they've accepted the narrative that Obama is a New Kind of Politician. To me he's "new" only in that he understands the importance of words and is uncommonly quick-witted.

yeah i dunno if thats directed at me or not but i agree -- im not saying i dont believe the guy isnt genuinely optimistic, but i def dont believe he's remotely naive, like not even remotely remotely xps to jhoshea

not directed at u in the slightest deez

paranoid/optimist ^^^ lol

More on Obama & civil liberties: he voted to make permanent all but two of the PATRIOT act provisions that had been originally passed with an expiration date - so not exactly a wide-eyed innocent on that front.

i mean, this guy is naive?? he comes across as a freaking borderline genius to me

Early on I thought he came off as naive when he said that having lived abroad was a foreign policy credential. Like not only naive for thinking that (which he might not have, really), but naive for thinking it sounded good.

i really don't think disappointments with an obama presidency will be with character flaws per se.

something that occasionally makes me uneasy about his campaign rhetoric is that he'll elide the differences between kinds of identity, most problematically ethnic and economic identities. being Latino isn't really like being rich even though there's a fair degree of mystification cast over class as culture in this country. i don't really know where i'm going with this; it fits his overall message well to talk about the poor/rich divide as bridgeable, but that's a divide that economic policy should be targeted at eliminating or at least bringing closer, it's not like the problem is, oh if only poor people and rich people could just sit down over coffee and talk.

which i'm sure he knows and in part he's hemmed in by the landmine that is talking about class in America.

oh if only poor people and rich people could just sit down over coffee and talk.

-- horseshoe, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:48 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/3448/l10342545qc8.jpg

(ahem, not that I've seen it.)

isn't the deal with character flaws you see powerfully ten years after that they're the things you saw as VIRTUES at the time

no one's going to be lookin back at president two-term obama and sayin "yes how did i not see he was naive?" -- what will piss you off abt him will be a quality you were pleased abt back when you voted for him

he will beat me in basketball and steal my girlfriend

maybe but i was really (maybe willfully?) blind to the bill clinton is untrustworthy thing in the 90s. i can see how it was the flipside of his charm in retrospect, i guess.

xpost

edwards was better at talking about class that obama, as i remember, but i also think its "easier" to talk about class as a white guy than it is as a black guy

and the flip side of that was that edwards was no good at talking about race.

uh, whatever that would mean, i guess

I wish he was an atheist -- with his oratorical skills he could do lots for the millions of us who want to hear a convincing defense of godlessness put to theists. And yet, and yet, I suspect he IS less of a god-fearing man than he pretends. Something about his preternatural coolness bespeaks a kind of deism.

I kind of like to think that Barack Obama's reasonable optimism is engendering a sort of secular spirituality in the country.

it pretty funny fighting bill clinton and being all ooooh yah ok now i see why he got under yr skin so bad

i really want obama to give a truth bomb class speech like he did with race. lol campaign fan fiction.

xposts

also easier to 'talk about class' when you're never gonna be Prez and just want to influence the debate

at the time (i was like 10) i didnt believe that shit, just thought it was partisan & desperate

Nobody's gonna call bullshit on a 10 year-old and what studying up on the Clintons?

hes never going to be able to give a speech about class with that kind of credibility after the "bitter" thing

i think edwards wanted to be prez xxp

I didn't say he didn't want to be prez

No results found for "obama edwards slash fiction".

also easier to 'talk about class' when you're never gonna be Prez and just want to influence the debate

-- gabbneb, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:00 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

yeah, i think that's basically right.

hes never going to be able to give a speech about class with that kind of credibility after the "bitter" thing

-- max, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:01 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

okay, in my imaginary fan fic scenario, an in-depth justification of the "bitter" thing would be the pretext for the entire speech! OMG AMAZING, RIGHT? but yeah, whatevs. i love him.

He worked his way up the ankles to Jim's knees, and then his thighs. As Edwards's hands continued up Obama's body to his torso, they traveled lightly over Obama's full rear end. Edwards's blood quickened at his first touch of such an interesting area of flesh.

He lathered up Obama's stomach and carefully rubbed the soap over the other man's front. "I am pleased that your chest is once again free of hair," Edwards remarked. Then he ran his foamy hands over Obama's pecs, grazing both nipples at once.

"Mm," Obama grunted in answer. More of his penis went turgid. Edwards continued to clean him as if he hadn't noticed, moving soap all around Obama's back without missing an inch of skin.

Edwards returned to the floor and gathered more soap into his hand. Now he ran his curious, searching fingers against Obama's inner thighs, exploring the contours and lines there which were uniquely Obama's.

this ad kicks the gas tax freebie's ass

http://thepage.time.com/2008/04/30/obama-responds-to-clinton-in-new-north-carolina-indiana-ad/

turgid

at the time (i was like 10) i didnt believe that shit, just thought it was partisan & desperate

Nobody's gonna call bullshit on a 10 year-old and what studying up on the Clintons?

-- jon /via/ chi 2.0, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:00 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

my thesis on bill clinton in 96 was that i was happy there was a cool democrat in the white house instead of a creepy old republican and he liked jazz and made jokes and seemed smart and my mom liked him

i didnt know the word 'partisan' then but i do remember thinking all the armchair psychology was jealous haterz not serious analysis

haha lil guy otm

thats the thing is, i dunno if it was just stopped clock/twice a day shit or if idiots like jonah goldberg actually managed to see the truth about bill clinton and liberals were blinded by triumphalism

Nobody's gonna call bullshit on a 10 year-old and what studying up on the Clintons?

ethan gets a pass because he has well-formed opinions about records and a job in a muppet museum. it's when folks like suzy talk about being smarter and ballsier than average that makes people upset

oh man xposted to death again

wtf about my post made ppl think i was making serious policy & character judgments at age 10???? ive been pretty clear on ilx that ive only soured on the clintons in the last 7-8 years

lol tom what made today defend-suzy day?

and before you answer read these two sentences:

Edwards returned to the floor and gathered more soap into his hand. Now he ran his curious, searching fingers against Obama's inner thighs, exploring the contours and lines there which were uniquely Obama's.

anyway if I had to pick something that's a virtue of the guy that we're going to regret two terms from now it's that he has too much faith in people which is what this whole thread has been about the end

max: people being really boring about hating suzy and gabbneb. it'll be like one tiresome post that breaks the camel's back with stuff like that on ILX and then I just go off. you know this

it reached the TIPPING POINT

ive defended gabbneb a lot, and suzy is surprisingly inclusive with her class-hatreds, but generally suzy/gabbneb zings still make me lmao

peak zing

my thesis on bill clinton in 96

You were 13 in '96.

i'm surprised that everyone's saying clinton's flaw was "untrustworthiness" - he was a dlc democrat for years and that's exactly what we got; i think he actually tried to follow through on pretty much everything he said he would

to me his tragic flaw was his charm - he could charm the pants off anyone, and it brought his world down around his ears

I followed the '84 race when I was 8 </gabbneb>

those things are the same thing!

xpost to tracer hand

liberals were blinded by triumphalism

Did liberals believe Clinton then? Most of'em were warily happy there was a Democrat in the WH.

untrustworthiness and charm are the same thing??

gabbneb is a gr8 poster

xpost

i can see how they'd be part of the same package for sure

btw the classic politician's answer to this question, which most of you have already made, is "sometimes i'm just too honest"

suzy is surprisingly inclusive with her class-hatreds

lol

charm at its logical endpoint is about misleading, i think!

xposts

I followed the '84 race when I was 8 </gabbneb>

I have a hazy memory of announcing to my first-grade teacher I was a Mondale fan, but I have no idea why: probably just picked up bits of conversation from my parents.

I was the only Mondale fan in my elementary school, and I did it just to be contrarian (and Reagan creeped me out even then).

back in '92 before the election some friends and i walked around the playground chanting "clin-ton."

Friends With Money is good

haha i remember seein pictures on the news of the available candidates (= nixon, humphrey, wallace) and thinkin THEY ALL LOOK THE SAME ie UGLY, i shall vote for NONE OF THEM

i was 8 and my policy analysis stands

I was one of three kids (out of 25 or 30) in my 5th-grade class who voted for Dukakis in a mock election. I was also the only white kid who did so.

the Hitchens book ethan mentioned has a fairly detailed indictment of Clinton's war on welfare, if you get past the author's breathless rhetoric.

yeah if he would chill with how clinton is the worst man in history who violently rapes every woman in sight its actually a substantive policy critique from the left

i was pro-clinton in 2nd grade because my parents told me to be so

and im pro-obama now because my college tells me to be so

if im lucky i wont ever have to make a decision in my life

i voted bush in my fourth grade mock election because my dad voted republican. ;_;

i would have been mean to you as i was instructed to be mean to bush supporters by my parents

you wouldn't even have been alive! it was bush v. dukakis.

:( i would have been 3

Yeah, elementary-school mock elections are just a handy way for teachers to assay the political opinions of their students' parents.

challenging opinions

I remember a surprising amount of support for Perot in 9th grade, though.

i voted for dole as a joke ;)

good joke dude

i vote for dole pineapples

i felt bad for him like when he fell and his shriveled up arm that he got from war heroism

are you going to send a sympathy vote to john mccain? i guess he hasn't fallen yet.

if he falls then maybe - hes way less pitiful than dole - but most people are

arm not working at all > arm not working above shoulder

exploring the contours and lines there which were uniquely Obama's.
exploring the contours and lines there which were uniquely Obama's.
exploring the contours and lines there which were uniquely Obama's.
exploring the contours and lines there which were uniquely Obama's.
exploring the contours and lines there which were uniquely Obama's.
exploring the contours and lines there which were uniquely Obama's.
exploring the contours and lines there which were uniquely Obama's.
exploring the contours and lines there which were uniquely Obama's.
exploring the contours and lines there which were uniquely Obama's.
exploring the contours and lines there which were uniquely Obama's.

i liked carter in 80 cuz of georgia, root for the home boy (80 was a big year for georgia in general) and also cuz the only ronald i knew was ronald mcdonald and who in the world would vote ronald mcdonald for president. i was SHOCKED when he won.

jj ty for bringing this thread back to the real issues

mcdonald/grimace 08

i argued for carter in my 6th-grade presidential debate in 1980. i was 11. i have no idea what i said, but i remember being pwned by the girl who was repping for john anderson (brainy cute girl named dee-dee, with big glasses; i had a secret crush on her). i remember her going off about "now we've got these gas prices and hostages everywhere!"

wow you grew up in a doonesbury strip

my brother supported Bush when he was 4 because he liked shrubbery

xpost it felt more like peanuts.

tipsy you could have killed her on "these gas prices everywhere" -- anderson was proposing a 50¢ per gallon gas tax

lol curtis is that true

now i feel like i let jimmy down.

LOL at 'job in muppet museum'; people who spend any time hating on me clearly need other occupations besides this - I spend zero time on hating you. Really. Also it's just American ickleboys of a certain vintage, nobody else gives a shit.

Pragmatism over Obama should probably rule the day. I've gotta say I've got major empathy for a single-parent/child of divorce guy who worked his arse off for scholarships; remember 'bittergate' (agh) was friendly fire from an On the Bus person and perhaps rich schmucks really threatened by such a possibility for dialogue on class, so put the boot in, at least once this broke. I would not be at all surprised, they like the general public to stay stupid and obsess over trivialities.

Can remember supporting Carter when I was eight; neighbour kid wrote to him with pointers for dealing with getting bullied by GOP and wangled invite to the inauguration (same kid is now radical left minister). HATED Reagan because by this time a) political grandmother went all Body Snatchers/ 'that broken down cowboy actor' whenever he was on TV b) Iran hostages freed on day of inauguration looked fishy as fuck even to 11-year-old me.

never underestimate the shrubbery vote

http://content.ytmnd.com/content/0/f/8/0f86da785ddaf8004a05a12d0a3dd38d.jpg

^ ban

In Kindergarten I voted for Ronald Reagan in the school election. When my (liberal) parents asked why, I said "He lost the debate, so I wanted him to win something."

100% true jhoshea!

not so surprising that these sorts of thought patterns run in my gene pool

I remember writing something about Clinton being a 'kneejerk liberal' in my 6th grade journal when he was reelected. I attribute this to my Dad always listening to Imus when I was having breakfast in the morning.

As for Obama, I'm in the "He strikes me as too intelligent to be as naive and optimistic as he comes off" camp. I really do think it's a campaign tactic, if you look at the more hawkish spots on his record you know he's not all teddy bears and rainbows.

my earliest political memory is of my mom saying something disparaging about Carter while he was running for office, I must have been 4? I remember liking CArter when he was president because he was the first president I was conscious of. I remember when Regan won pretty clearly; we already had a political cartoon on our refrigerator with a crying indian on it with some quote of his about breaking treaties; I remember when he won, I went and wrote "sucks" after his name.

Rolling Stone-reading pre/early adolescent that I was I was pretty politically savvy through school UP until college; as guessed above, I was just happy a democrat had finally won and tuned out and drank for several years instead. As a result I came out of the Clinton years with the impression that things had gone pretty okay and really one looked back on it critically in the past few years and seen the issues. Obviously still better than the years that followed though.

obama's major flaws, for me:

--fairly skimpy record for most of his state senate career
--endorsed mayor daley for re-election, as well as one or two of his cronies (i know i know politics as usual but EWWWWW)
--a bad offhand speaker, if the debates are any evidence
--a bit too willing to believe that his fellow politicians are decent well-meaning folks at heart (way worse than "overconfidence in the electorate's willingness to assume civic responsibility," which i can't parse at all -- how does he do that?).

by being the favored candidate of people who would rather dismiss democracy as a concept than believe anything actually negative about their boy

people who would rather dismiss democracy as a concept

i am stupid and slow

explain this to me please.

maybe not now cause i'm off for the night but i'm flummoxed as fuck by that clause.

yeah, wtf?

I dunno, I generally figure the "electorate's" "civic responsibility" is to vote for the candidate they prefer

gotcha.

stuff i like about obama:

--writes own speeches
--pretty good writer (the audacity of hope is surprisingly readable for an i-wanna-be-president book, tho my eyes must've broke from glazing over during the vague-as-fuck foreign policy chapter)
--even-tempered guy (i.e., neither a wimp nor a tantrum-throwing egomaniac like mccain -- or, frankly, bill clinton)
--a "moderate" in the carter sense, not the clinton/centrist sense

i know "writes own speeches" seems like a minor point but think about it this way: if every candidate had to write his own speeches, 9 out of the last 10 presidents wouldn't have won shit.

foreign policy naivete

This applies to every president for the last 30 years apart from, possibly, Bush 41.

thing abt political buyer's remorse is that it's gnna be eg "is pretty good writer" which we will look back on and say OMIGOD WHY DIDN'T WE SEE THIS SOONER

(as of now, i don't know why it'll be this either -- JUST MARK MY WORDS, his flaw will be something you currently and justifably consider a good quality)

J.D. – Dreams From My Father is even better.

is this like MARK MY WORDS BUSH WILL LOSE IN 04

MARK S MY WORDS

an economic conservative

won't say when he'll get us completely out of Iraq

carried water for Joe Lieberman

considers Israel STALWART (probly not cuz they use old men to spy on us)

doesn't seem to believe in his own timid healthcare plan

I remember being pretty little (maybe 5?), and being shocked--SHOCKED!--to hear from my mom that President Reagan (the only president I'd known, and thus THE PRESIDENT) didn't give a shit about homeless people.

when i was little i was shocked that the president couldn't just kill someone he disagreed with. "why not? he's the PRESIDENT!"

btw dukakis visited my school when i was in eighth grade; he made some sort of education speech in a basement room (the largest we had in the school). we all lined up on either side of the hallway leading there, and we were told to show a lot of respect, and i think we were all encouraged to clap for him as he strode between us. it was thrilling

gore also visited my school, in tennessee, a few years later - somebody tried to get me to ask him during the q&a section if he voted for gulf war i on account of his dad voting against the vietnam war and then getting booted out on his ear by the voters - i didn't do it

MARK MY WORDS SOMEONE WILL HAVE LOST IN 2004 <--- this is the level of certainty we are lookin at

Mark S, it's a total truism that if a person gets fired from a job, it's usually for something the employer vocally deemed an asset when hiring. 'We like your individuality' becomes 'you're too individual'.

Dreams From My Father is not just 'even better', it's absolutely fucking stupendous:

"My mother laughed once more, and once again I saw her as the child she had been. Except this time I saw something else: in her smiling, slightly puzzled face, I saw what all children must see at some point if they are to grow up - their parents' lives revealed to them as separate and apart, reaching out beyond the point of their union or the birth of a child, lives unfurling back to grandparents, great-grandparents, an infinite number of chance meetings, misunderstandings, projected hopes, limited circumstances. My mother was that girl with the movie of beautiful black people in her head, flattered by my father's attention, confused and alone, trying to break out of the grip of her own parents' lives. The innocence she carried that day, waiting for my father, had been tinged with misconceptions, her own needs. But it was a guileless need, one without self-consciousness, and perhaps that's how any love begins, impulses and cloudy images that allow us to break across our solitude, and then, if we're lucky, are finally transformed into something firmer. What I heard from my mother that day, speaking about my father, was something I suspect most Americans will never hear from the lips of those of another race, and so cannot be expected to believe might exist between black and white: the love of someone who knows your life in the round, a love that will survive disappointment. She saw my father as everyone hopes at least one other person might see him, she had tried to help the child who never knew him see him in the same way. And it was the look on her face that day that I would remember when a few months later I called to tell her that my father had died and heard her cry out over the distance."

usually a total truism <--- this the level of certainty we are aiming at

i <3 obama but theres some soft bigotry of lowered expectations shit going on with his writing 4real - its ok but not ABSOLUTELY FUCKING STUPENDOUS

though im reasonably sure its "pretty good for a politician" expectations not "pretty good for a black dude"

It's excellent for a pol, and let's note that through Woodrow Wilson most presidential candidates wrote at this level.

"very good for a politician" more like....

"pretty good" for a literary memoir I guess

xpost

better than JFK's war-hero memoirs that that guy ghostwrote YES
better than ulysses s. grant memoirs NO WAY d00d
better than six crises <--- u&k

(disclaimer : ok i have read none of these tho the kennedy book was read out as excerpts in school assemby for abt 12 million millennia when i was like 9)

This sounds like a great poll - RATE PRESIDENTS AS WRITERS.

(the Grant memoirs are excellent, but I get bored when he describes battles, troop formations, etc)

admittedly jfk memoir = like "acka-acka! neeeow! crash! splash! we are on a raft w.sharks circling oh noes!" but even so GET THE FUCK ON WITH IT MR PRESIDENT

haha jfk's favourite books
1: the rouge et le noir
2: from russia with love

I CALL BULLSHIT ON THIS LIST ALREADY

amazingly i have never read six crises, though i did slog thru lbj's incredibly boring THE VANTAGE POINT

haha in Caro's biography he notes how LBJ, recovering after his 1955 heart attack, ordered Lady Bird to leave books and journals strewn all over the Texas ranch to give journalists the impression that he read and "thought deeply."

and mcgovern's autobio which is folksy & charming

probly should get around to the grant book one of these days

morbs, fyi, 'stalwart' is an adjective. you're probably referring to O's statement that Israel is a 'stalwart ally' of the US, but maybe you intended to refer to his statement that Israel's security is 'sacrosanct'.

box 13!

caro's biography = is lbj actually president yet (as per the published volumes)? is caro still even alive?

xpost Ethan, I'm really glad you clarified that, but if you haven't read DWMF, you really aren't in a place to say whether it's WHOA INCREDIBLE or not. I stand by my opinion.

Mark, Master of the Senate ends with LBJ as veep, chastened and chomping at the bit.

ethan, fyi, the praise for Obama's (first) book, at least outside of ilx, is for the self-knowledge it exhibits more than the writing (tho people think that's pretty good too)

though im reasonably sure its "pretty good for a politician" expectations not "pretty good for a black dude"

you think?

All of you that are dissing Dave and his band, obviously haven't given him a chance. Actually try to listen to them then you may discover that they aren't bad. Dont judge them without knowing what they are all about. They are making millions and usually boring music doesn't do that. The reason for that is because they are great musicians. I love all kinds of music so dont even try judging the fans either. You dont know them or me you have no right to say stuff about us. Sure some of you may be offended about his one line "hike up your skirt a little more and show the world to me" come on its not nearly as bad as half the rap that is played twice or sometimes 3 times as much as what Dave gets played on the radio.

-- Kara, Friday, June 6, 2003 11:51 PM (4 years ago) Bookmark Link

caro is the brigadier pudding of actual real reality

"not nearly as bad as half the rap that is played twice" <-- you do the math!

What I heard from my mother that day, speaking about my father, was something I suspect most Americans will never hear from the lips of those of another race, and so cannot be expected to believe might exist between black and white

you don't need to have read the whole book to know that this could have used some tightening

The Caro Biography of LBJ does seem a bit liek a Hawkwind boxset with every outtake, bootleg and demo thrown in published in the form of a partwork.

"More of his penis went turgid" <-- tightening

The idea of LBJ ripped on acid and wailing at the top of his lungs...is more Texan than I realized.

when people praise the language in Obama's (first) book, they may be referring more to the interweaving of narrative and themes and ability to evoke thoughts and feelings than the tautness of the sentences

LEAVE MAH PECKER OUT OF THIS

http://www.archives.gov/press/press-kits/picturing-the-century-photos/images/lbj-and-richard-russell.jpg

tautness is all politics: gettysburg address = 243 words long <--- this is the mark we are huntin

"Unintentionally Homoerotic Oval Office Imagery"

haha "tautness is all IN politics"

(it is apparently possible to be too compressed!)

"Unintentionally" <--- OO I SO DON'T THINK

Yeah oh LBJ big proponent of 'accidentally' showing cock to underline alphadawg status, amirite?

yes "the vantage point" = lbj givin orders while takin shit w.door open

also: "better inside the tent pissing out than outside pissing in"

also also:
LBJ: "say he had carnal knowledge of his hog herd"
minion: "wah boss we can't call him 1 x pigfucker"*
LBJ: "i wanna hear him deny it"

(*root of neverstarted lester bangs project-title "a history of pig-fucking" and hence proto-noize alt-rock strand pigfuck)

lbj wz punk

The Audacity of Pig Fucking

APFestival

yea ohb's flaw will turn out to be that this is NOT the secret title

flaw 2: his pastor was not samuel delany :(

Teh visions that inspires, Mark.

"I'd like to read from Neveryona, chapter 2..."

hogg is what put him in mind :/

is there like a secret cult of lbj I didn't know about

I'd say you stumbled into it. Now show us your pecker.

or yr surgery scar.

someone plz show gobbknob how to recognize adjectives.

Hmm, here I was thinking the 'surgery scar' was a placeholder for Lyndon Baines' Jewels.

http://jeff.pasleybrothers.com/images/LBJ_scar.jpg

you say subtext i say domtext

you say subtext i say domtext

YOU ARE A GOLDEN GOD

lincoln = greatest american writer (gore vidal once said this, and i kinda sorta believe it).

i read one of nixon's books years and years ago and all i remember is the incredibly hilarious chapter where he tries to explain watergate and there's like 5,000 paragraphs in a row that all begin like "the most foolish misunderstanding about watergate was...", "the most ridiculous assertion about watergate was...", "the most ironic charge about watergate was..."

hey, i was there, maaaan

In the Arena's got a photo of Nixon writing a speech, arm of his glasses in his mouth. The caption: "Even writing one line takes hours of concentrated thought."

in the arena! i think that was it.

didn't pat buchanan write nixon's farewell address?

The success of the Obama administration will largely depend on the quality of his advisors and appointments. There's no way to know what his administrative style will be. I know he's bright enough to figure out a lot of this stuff and correct his mistakes, but he won't enter office with much margin for error.

I don't worry about his ability to conduct diplomacy with other nations. I don't worry about his ability to conceive and propose budget priorities or legislation. I wonder about his ability to stay in front of the public opinion parade in the USA, what with the attack machine (Fox news, Scaife and Coors throwing millions around, conservative think tanks, etc.) grinding 24 hours a day trying to steer the conversation onto whatever trivia they deem useful to their ends.

It's a pretty big shitstorm to stand in the middle of and still have the time, energy and focus to accomplish good things.

This could be said about any president ever.

Also:

I wonder about his ability to stay in front of the public opinion parade in the USA, what with the attack machine (Fox news, ILE, Scaife and Coors throwing millions around, conservative think tanks, etc.)

Fixed.

Sure. The things I identified don't even begin to approach critical flaws. They're kind of givens.

But then, I don't see any evidence that Obama is beset by major flaws that would prevent him from being a good president. I do see good reasons to think he would be an excellent president. I can only speculate.

I do think it is good to mention this stuff, though. It's good to remind the more gung-ho fro either Obama or Clinton that a campaign is different from governing, and that even good candidates with undoubted talents can be ensnared in a failed administration, due to encounters with problems that are beyond their ability to solve.

It's fine to get your hopes up, but don't consider them guaranteed by the "right" outcome of the election.

Later at a Lincoln Park nightclub, Obama spoke to a raucous crowd of music fans, who paid up to $500 per person to see a performance by Wilco lead singer Jeff Tweedy, and two other band members.

"Before these guys go, I want them to know that I had heard a rumor that they had suggested that I had nothing by them on my iPod," Obama said. "That is not true. I love Wilco."

love is over

so it was an alt-country cowboy hat

There's nothing wrong with a little Wilco on your ipod. And I'd rather he pander to voters through questionable music taste than questionable policy positions.

lol xp

There's nothing wrong with a little Wilco on your ipod. And I'd rather he pander to voters through questionable music taste than questionable policy positions.

-- Super Cub, Saturday, July 12, 2008 3:07 PM (30 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

you obama maniacs sure do some rhetorical backflips to support this guy!! first his stance on civil unions, now his stance on wilco ... does the man have any principles??

he'll throw wilco under the bus if he needs to

No Son Volt, no credibility

a lot of people on ILM certainly did (xpost)

Obama met Wilco at the Farm Aid 20th Anniversary show in 2005 and has appeared with them at several events since.

http://www.harpmagazine.com/img/news/2005_09_29_wilco_obama.JPG

during the debate bits I saw between innings, I definitely heard him SIGH.

serious question

Now in terms of the administrations or how I would approach the presidency, I don't think I'd restrict myself to three people. There are people like Sam Nunn, a Democrat, or Dick Lugar, a Republican, who I'd listen to on foreign policy. On domestic policy, I've got friends ranging from Ted Kennedy to Tom Coburn, who don't necessarily agree on a lot of things, but who both have a sincere desire to see this country improve.

Tom -- or John mentioned me being wildly liberal. Mostly that's just me opposing George Bush's wrong headed policies since I've been in Congress but I think it is that it is also important to recognize I work with Tom Coburn, the most conservative, one of the most conservative Republicans who John already mentioned to set up what we call a Google for government saying we'll list every dollar of federal spending to make sure that the taxpayer can take a look and see who, in fact, is promoting some of these spending projects that John's been railing about.

^^^ #1 from the saddleback forum, #2 from yesterday BTW

you're positing these as flaws?

Listening to people with alternative viewpoints is a flaw? xp

Being friends (or pretending to be) with Tom "LESBIANS IN OUR SCHOOLS" Coburn is a black mark in my book. Fuck that Okie asshole.

As a congressman in 1997, Coburn protested NBC's plan to air the R-rated Academy Award-winning Holocaust drama Schindler's List during prime time. Coburn stated that, in airing the movie without editing it for television, TV had been taken "to an all-time low, with full-frontal nudity, violence and profanity." He also said the TV broadcast should outrage parents and decent-minded individuals everywhere. Coburn described the airing of Schindler's List on television as "...irresponsible sexual behavior...I cringe when I realize that there were children all across this nation watching this program."

more like tom COCKBURN

wow, calling an airing of schindler's list "irresponsible sexual behaviour" is so amazingly fucked up

i mean whatever you think of that movie. that is fuuuuucked.

daria palin!

i'm sure that obama is total best buddies with tom coburn, one of the senate's leading intellectuals

just like hillary is actually bffs with lindsey graham and don nickles (rip)

has anyone said that he's black?

i thought it!

I understand the gag factor in seeing an embrace of someone with detestable views, but being able to work with someone is not the same as taking BFF photobooth I ENDORSE YR VIEWS BROSEF pics with them.

he shouts out coburn waaaaaaaaaayyyy too much IMHO. so unnecessary

FWIW i do more work to help get obama elected than anyone else on this board

So that thing McCain mentioned during the debate about Obama requesting $932 million in pork is more or less accurate, right? Admittedly it's not something I care about that much compared to the bigger issues, but it would count as a flaw, and as far as I can determine it seems to be true.

my guess (i have not researched the details re: obama) is that a fair amount of what GOP usually term "pork" would be funding for projects in the state/district that would benefit the public

that is part of his job imho. i got plenty of things to criticize about obama but this is not one that troubles me unless there is some real cronyism stuff in there.

Yeah I wish he would actually defend some of the earmarks instead of saying that the system is "broken" since it's kind of giving the point to McCain, and not requesting any earmarks for the next year isn't going to do great things for Illinois. If he was just like, "hey here's all the useful stuff I did with my earmark money, I was working for my constituents, fuk u John" that'd be cool.

FWIW i do more work to help get obama elected than anyone else on this board

― regular guy, scranton, pennsylvania (daria-g), Sunday, September 28, 2008 4:00 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark

A remarkable assumption.

FWIW I don't think anyone on this thread was attacking your motivations for criticism (nb: on this thread, other bs attacks on your motivations notwithstanding). Your point is well taken.

lol daria do u have a dick if so plz tell us how much bigger it is than the dicks of everyone else on this board

he shouts out coburn waaaaaaaaaayyyy too much IMHO. so unnecessary

FWIW i do more work to help get obama elected than anyone else on this board

― regular guy, scranton, pennsylvania (daria-g), Saturday, September 27, 2008 11:00 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

1. isnt he alwsy 'shouting out' to coburn in response to bullshit 'ties' to an asshole like ayers?

2. orly

i got it guys i think daria is actually joe biden

I took that to mean D. is working at an office or in some other GOTV capacity (much like Ethan).

or is sara palin

i assumed campaign work, but then i thought maybe she just knows more people who are "uncomfortable with" Obama than the rest of us

i might do Camp Obama, but I'm probably a little too Federal court for door-to-door; should do voter protection if I'm able to

Obama's biggest flaw is that he doesn't have a tic which would make him suitable for a really good "SNL" evisceration.

well, it does. there are things that are true and things that are false, at the end of the day.

ha

jeez i haven't even remembered to keep up with rolling ringtone maybe i should see you all over there on a different subject

I think I remember hearing Obama use the word "cockamamie" at least once. Which is just, I mean, come on... it's just a foolish word.
That said, my Grandma occasionally employed the phrase "Holy Jupiter!" with notable success, so I could be wrong here.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/krisken/2862353537/

Now would you prefer that or the Public Enemy logo on there?

his support for ethanol?

serious question

YESSSSSS

http://dennisperrin.blogspot.com/2008/09/how-lucky-we-are.html

if you hate jim lehrer, you hate america

true

MCCAIN: (whispering) I'm taking you out, gook boy.

OBAMA: (whispering) Step up, cracka.

This is making me nostalgic for high school satire columns.

what's wrong with cockamamie?

Dennis Perrin's just crying out for a hug isn't he?

you actually read it?

Good lord no.

oh dear.
jim lehrer did a pretty good job imho. he forgot to ask them a stupid question about professional sports though

xp: he won't let the close-minded hug him.

Lehrer neeeds to be put down in the barn.

classy^^^

Behind the barn, please. Or we'll never get the stains out.

xp: he won't let the close-minded hug him.

Lehrer neeeds to be put down in the barn.

― Dr Morbius, Monday, September 29, 2008 1:22 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

are you 15??

not nearly no matter where you put the tape measure

move thread to I Love TMI plz

jesus christ

btw Que, Lehrer's brand of mewling "classy" PBS journalism is what makes him a waste of space.

Dr. Morbius i don't ever watch CNN or Fox or any of that shit, because I try not to get too much of my news from the TV. Nor do I have cable. That said, Jim Lehrer and PBS are really not that bad--they go pretty in depth on lots of topics, and they seem fair to both sides. i read papers and blogs and stuff, too so PBS is more supplementary. he runs a good debate. if you really think he needs to be shot like a horse, i don't think there is anything I or anyone else can say to change your mind.

i'm not sure what mewling classy journalism means to you but like i said, TV's a horrible way to get your news, so Lehrer and co suprise me.

surprise me--

you on the other hand never surprise me.

he's no Dennis Perrin that's for sure

A thought that haunts him, I'm sure.

seriously--i stopped reading after the "Jim Lehrer wants to put a Tek-9 in his mouth" gag. i guess i should read that bullshit instead of watching PBS from time to time, right Morbs?

it means he has a mild disposition and eschews the scatology morbs so prizes

he's also a Marine, so good luck w/ that KO, morbs

not saying it's an illegitimate argument to call him insufficiently hardnosed - in what capacity? he's mostly a newsreader and dialoguer - but we can do without another geraldo'reilly afaic

i'm saying for TV, he's pretty good. that's all i'm saying

Cockburn in last week's Nation:

Unusually early, the real election day this year fell on October 4, the day the House of Representatives finally approved the bailout bill already passed by the Senate two days earlier....

The election of Jimmy Carter in 1976 was ...a season of hope that a new era was dawning, particularly in the arena of foreign policy and the cold war. "If, after the inauguration," Carter's campaign manager, Hamilton Jordan, told the press, "you find Cy Vance as secretary of state and Zbigniew Brzezinski as head of national security, then I would say we failed. And I'd quit." Carter wanted George Ball as secretary of state, but in the backstage maneuverings of the real election the Israel lobby vetoed Ball. Carter was forced to pick Vance as secretary of state and the cold war fanatic Brzezinski as national security adviser. Jordan did not quit.

The real election in Bill Clinton's case took place after his election, when he swiftly indicated surrender by making Goldman Sachs's Robert Rubin his treasury secretary. By May 1993 he had signaled his total submission to the Wall Street banks and the end of any pretense--thin from the get-go--of economic change or social reform.

This year the economic crisis demanded an early real election, designed to fend off the admittedly very remote possibility--Rubin is Barack Obama's close economic adviser--that Obama, victorious in the November 4 election, might claim a reformer's mandate and seek to prize loose the stranglehold of Wall Street financiers on the economy.

On September 23 Obama stated on NBC that the crisis and the prospect of a huge bailout required bipartisan action and meant he likely would have to delay expansive spending programs outlined during his campaign for the White House. Thus did he surrender power even before he gained it. Simultaneously, McCain, endorsing the bailout, destroyed a golden opportunity to revive his candidacy by placing himself at the head of the Republican revolt and seizing the popular mood, which was and remains one of vitriolic fury at Wall Street and the bailout.

Dissent dwindled rapidly in the press as the Accredited Commentariat, from George Will on the right to Paul Krugman in the center, declared the bailout odious but necessary....

As the economic crisis continued unabated, people said this showed that the bailout bill had been useless. Not true at all. Its paramount importance was as a show of force, as dramatic as nineteenth-century cavalry cutting down demonstrators at Peterloo. As an instigator of beneficial change, the Clinton administration was over six months after election day 1992. Assuming he wins, Obama has beaten the speed of Bill Clinton's 1993 collapse by almost seven months.

But hold! you cry. Obama may enter office with a secret plan. Even FDR campaigned in 1932 for a balanced budget. And anyway, Obama and Biden will save us from Sarah Palin, Alaska's answer to Eva Perón! My friends, the ebullient Palin, a provincial right-wing populist in the Poujade tradition, is a distraction from the uncomfortable truth. After the October coup, and Obama's meek surrender, the November ballot is merely a coda.

thanks.

in the backstage maneuverings of the real election the Israel lobby vetoed Ball

this guy

to Paul Krugman in the center

this guy sounds european :D

'lefty' economists write for the Times, lol - somebody tell Doug Henwood

the failed social experiment of america: democracy, capitalism, and the mets
compiled and edited by benjamin morbius ph.d.

Don't forget foreign-film distribution

is it just me or are there some deliberate misrepresentations here

that is retarded

"obama and bush have both used the same key terms in a number of statements. also he voted for budgets."

seriously that's the funniest shit i've read in a minute

Before joining the newspaper, she was a senior adviser for the Republican National Committee and was appointed a public affairs director in the Department of Health and Human Services by President Bush.

Right now Obama is holding his cards so tightly to his vest it would be about impossible to discern any of his intentions once elected, apart from those carefully-shaped and electorally-advantageous ones which are officially embalmed in his stump speech soundbites. Very few of those will survive contact with political reality.

We won't see him really shake loose from this mode until after Nov. 4. I wonder if he'll ever come to a point in his presidency where he can cut loose and start freewheeling a bit. Or if that is contrary to his nature.

Is that a paraphrase from a post on The Corner?

If so, then it was transmitted to my brain via the luminiferous ether, because I don't read The Corner.

This is simply my impression of the last month and a half since the Republican convention. This stage of the election is all about caution if you're the clear front runner and the undecided vote is not especially large. The election is his to win or lose. He's playing not to lose. Not a very astonishing choice, really.

As for political reality, adding an extra trillion dollars in federal debt in the past 50 days has left Obama very little wiggle room for attaining his platform.

As for 'his nature', he strikes me as quite circumspect and cautious by nature. He speaks in bold strokes, but seems to act with containment. I could be wrong. He'll no doubt grow and change in the job.

No president in my lifetime has grown in the job, except malevolently.

Maybe you're the problem.

You never know.

Not saying that O can't do it, but FISA and "I love markets" are not encouraging signs.

didn't tell liar/homicidal fuckup Colin Powell to shove his endorsement

seems intent on winning election, within grasp with fortnight to go.

besides - not that he shouldn't - but has he even responded yet? i've heard him mention it in a speech, but nothing else.

Oh, with supporters like these....

"On that Saturday 10,000 households in Scranton were canvassed for Obama and another 5,000 canvassed on Sunday. I realized that we did just what the "Chicago Machine" would do. I had seen it often enough in my youth: the Ward Boss, the Precinct Captains, and the Block Captains...caring and knowledge of the individual affairs of each citizen goes with the system...The audacity of it: to build a nationwide machine based on the Chicago Machine. Now nobody groan - the Chicago Machine WORKS. We have seen the birth of a huge, wonderful Machine, the new Dem Machine, which will carry us all forward into an Age of Mutuality."
-- Martha Miller

"Being a liberal and a young upstart, I always questioned things - especially my superiors. Over the last month I have stopped this habit...By and by, the Mother Brain has earned my respect. Instead, I take comfort knowing that my time is not taken for granted; my superiors use me efficiently and intelligently. To me, that matters more than you know."
-- Ryan Kushner

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/beverly-davis/otb-campaign-journals-oba_b_135285.html

I realized that we did just what the "Chicago Machine" would do.

holy shit.

build a nationwide machine based on the Chicago Machine

holy shit.

the Chicago Machine WORKS

christ on a cracker.

Well, a mirrorworld anti-Chicago Machine where there's no neighbourhood coercion or turkeys, yeah?

I think you get the option to be wired into the Machine OR Mother Brain.

"the new Dem Machine, which will carry us all forward into an Age of Mutuality."

Somewhere, Huxley laughs?

xpost to suzy: or graft, bribery, extortion, racism, waste, arrogant flaunting of all of the above, and on, and on, and on...

This is a book that person, however well-meaning, has obviously not read.

The other day my mom started foaming about La Machine Chicago - and tying O to same - based on living there for one year only. Try to argue with her and she's all OH YEAH, I BEEN TO HYDE PARK - IN '67.

I think she should have stuck around for 1968.

http://bp1.blogger.com/_WriF8m2mVt0/SBe9zYQnloI/AAAAAAAABs8/4xsk-CjVrQo/s400/David+Douglas+Duncan--Dem+Con+68.jpg

(What makes that photo is the banner in the distance reading "HELLO DEMOCRATS!")

It's possible that he's a little TOO awesome ...

haha Dr. Morbius you should e-mail John Dean, tell him you found the liberal authoritarians finally, they're no longer a theory.

were they ever just a theory?

I think they're a whole corner of that ideology graph thingy, actuellement.

I think that well-known ideology graph thing (http://www.politicalcompass.org/index) is pretty clearly a libertarian indoctrination tool.
There's a whole body of literature surrounding the concept of authoritarianism, and as far as I know to align libertarianism as its polar opposite strongly misrepresents authoritarianism.

don't confuse Political Compass for the World's Smallest Political Quiz. The former makes conservatives foam at the mouth because it (generally) pegs them as authoritarians, and libertarians foam because its emphasis on value questions highlights their proximity to conservatives.

(but the idea of a 2-axis or 3-axis ideology guide is generally pretty stupid as a rule)

ah, okay, thanks!

to align libertarianism as its polar opposite strongly misrepresents authoritarianism

Who did this? we're talking about LIBERAL authoritarians. the Daleys, Humphrey, all the Dem senators not named Feingold, etc.

You just KNOW those two Obama Youth robots quoted on HuffPost are going to cluck their tongues at anyone who protests President Bam governing (and bombing) from the "center." "He has to do this to get re-elected!"

you are truly a seer

despite yr condescension i think most of us are pretty aware around these parts that obama will not be ushering in a totally post-partisan age. yes, people will be there to cheerlead whatever he does. i dont see why u think thats news to anyone.

uh, we are IN a postpartisan age, that's the problem.

wtf are you talking about never mind

morbs/feingold 08

but morbs like 48.5% of this country maintains a polar opposite view than you (and the other 48.5% or so) on practically every single issue there is. how do you propose anything ever getting done? short of the blue coastal states seceding from Jesusland?

p.s. i think it's a little early to take Barry to task for countries he hasn't bombed yet.

he's way smarter, more likable, and likely more decent than we've had in decades. give him a shot.

^^^ otm

Wanting the moon is understandable, but is no reason to turn down the offer of a few genuine moon rocks.

I am giving him a shot. But I think liberal reforms have been deemed impractical by the entire ruling class since at least 1980. Time will tell if the New Depression shifts the spectrum.

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=populism_without_pitchforks

He's apparently a "communitarian populist!" Thanks, intellectually lazy "progressive" JACKASS. Perhaps you would consider investing in a DICTIONARY before you become a WRITER.

"Communitarian Populism!!" You know, how Hitler rolled!! Jesus Christ. Obama's greatest flaw really is having supporters like these.

and yes I already feel guilty for linking that piece and possibly causing other people to try and read it

no its cool i saw the populism without pitchforks in the url before i clicked

Him being the antichrist could be a problem, apparently.

http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/images/Picture%205-166.jpg

(lol)

Topeka KS 66604

LOL at one medieval thought accusing something incredibly dense like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arminianism of being satanistic.

Amen.

amen xp!

I'll amen if the screed writer can learn to spell 'worshipped'. HAHA.

the most impressively irritating thing in the world is the font used by Phelps' propaganda posters

i like obama a lot but some of his supporters' eagerness to justify daleyism as "just politics" or "just what you gotta do to get elected" is seriously disturbing.

I like that the Westboro thing is headed as a news release. Front page of the next day's New York Times: "BARACK OBAMA IS ANTICHRIST."

J.D. what "daleyism" are you referring to?

mixing up Fred Sanford & George Jefferson

too much of a fuckin badass

overweeningly handsome

overly unflappable

embarrassingly thoughtful

skinny legs

ballhog

insufficiently cruel

digustingly considerate

disappointingly pragmatic

wait, wtf @ "communitarian" being a bad word? That's a totally common category in contemporary political philosophy, used for those who see communities of individuals rather than isolated individuals as politically central. Or did I miss some kind of joke, with the Hitler references and all?

yep, no one deifying him on ILX.

it's called glee, morbius

pure, unadulterated sheer fucking glee

morbs tomorrow i will toast to your unrivaled principle and then get drunk

on wednesday i will be hung over

on thursday and thereafter it will be l-r: obama, BIG HOOS
http://nynerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/14-cat-meets-eagle.JPG

poor kitty gonna get raped

for "The Wire" multitudes:

Obama as Tommy Carcetti

Obama’s victory is consequently a watershed in American politics, and it should be enthusiastically celebrated for that reason alone....
The grim reality, however, is that Obama (like Carcetti) will spend his first term campaigning for his second term, a campaign he actually began in his acceptance speech in Chicago on election night... If he wins a second term, he’ll spend it shoring up the prospects of both the Democrats in Congress and his aspiring Democratic successor to the throne--again, by cultivating the “center.”

Obama will undoubtedly be better than Bush was and better than McCain would have been, and the differences matter. But a realistic assessment of the scope of those differences is imperative. Without it, people who really care about changing this country’s direction will end up counting on one man, Obama, instead of on themselves to bring about the change we need. Those people will inevitably be disappointed.

...All told, the outlook for a new day in America is poor. The bottom line is this: When you think Barack Obama, think Tommy Carcetti. He probably has a good heart, but he is confronting a vast array of institutional forces aimed at preventing him or anyone else in power from doing the right thing. To have any chance of getting the results we want out of his administration, we cannot just sit back and expect him to work his magic. We must organize, agitate, and pursue independent initiatives (like ballot measures) to get what we want (like single-payer healthcare) at the state level. And we must carefully scrutinize Obama’s every move and harass and harangue him relentlessly just as if he were John McCain or George Bush. From the point of view of every American left of center, the principal advantage of Obama over McCain is that it is at least possible that he will listen to us. We cannot let that advantage go to waste.

what are barack obama's flaws? [Started by and what in April 2008, last updated Thursday, November 6, 2008 11:40 AM by Dr Morbius on I Love Everything] 17 new answers

And we must carefully scrutinize Obama’s every move and harass and harangue him relentlessly just as if he were John McCain or George Bush. From the point of view of every American left of center, the principal advantage of Obama over McCain is that it is at least possible that he will listen to us. We cannot let that advantage our shitty blogs go to waste.

Greenwald's on it already on his shitty left wing blog.

Oh great, the WBC is going to picket Obama's grandmother's funeral. (don't wanna link to their site though)

Alfred, do you think Obama should work on repealing DOMA before or after he gets to work on the economy, energy independence, and, say, getting the troops home from Iraq? I say this with the belief that DOMA is bullshit.

Obama (like Carcetti) will spend his first term campaigning for his second term

Maybe a minor quibble, but this is kind of off, since Carcetti was leapfrogging to a higher office (from mayor to governor) in a 2 year span, not trying to ensure his chances of being re-elected to the same. And doesn't every prez immediate begin sweating their 2nd term the moment they start their first? There's kind of a huge difference between being so ambitiously careerist that you're too busy pursuing the next job to be good at the current one, and getting to the highest possible post and making moves to try to stay there longer (which usually involve being good at that job). Still, I enjoy the implicit parallel that a white man getting elected to run Baltimore is kind of like a black man getting elected to run America. And of course Obama should be carefully scrutinized, just like every president.

Alfred, do you think Obama should work on repealing DOMA before or after he gets to work on the economy, energy independence, and, say, getting the troops home from Iraq? I say this with the belief that DOMA is bullshit

Not at all, and, regrettably, I'm not sure it's even one of his campaign promises. I was more interested in the second part of Greenwald's argument.

ah gotcha.

Combine all that with the fact that only a small minority is actually affected by DOMA's injustices, that many Democrats will insist none of this is worth the "risk," and that many Obama supporters will refuse to criticize anything he does (marvel at the number of commenters here saying that Obama's choice of Rahm Emanuel as Chief of Staff is right because . . . it is Obama's choice -- just look at this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this).

and yeah i agree, refusing to criticize the dude is ridiculous, but harass and harangue him relentlessly isn't much better.

Que, if he takes a stand or is going to back sign legislation you disagree with, are you going to write or phone? That's all "harass and harangue" means.

+ or march or...

i guess it probably depends on the legislation & the position he takes on it, etc. etc. i don't give politicians blank checks. . . but nor do i have a chip on my shoulder about them.

i also reserve the right to respectfully disagree with said dude

Obama and Congressional Democrats deserve some time to figure out what they will do and what they will prioritize. It's irrational to criticize them for things they haven't done. It's probably politically wise for the first steps they take to be related to the economy, and there are numerous other non-economic priorities of vital importance that nobody should wait for (restoring habeas corpus, closing Guantanamo, imposing a government-wide ban on torture). But repealing DOMA, and certainly its most destructive part, is a quick and important way to establish who they are, and doing that is consistent with, not contrary to, prevailing political sentiment.

truth bombastic and really fantastic

I'm writing a letter to Messrs. Elect & Pelosi & Reid today in this regard.

Obama's 10 Worst Ideas

Paul Craig Roberts, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration and WSJ & National Review ed:

Obama cannot bring change to Washington. There is no one in the Washington crowd that he can appoint who is capable of bringing change. If Obama were to reach outside the usual crowd, anyone suspected of being a bringer of change could not get confirmed by the Senate. Powerful interest groups--AIPAC, the military-security complex, Wall Street--use their political influence to block unacceptable appointments.

As Alexander Cockburn said of Obama in a pre-election column, column “never has the dead hand of the past had a ‘reform’ candidate so firmly by the windpipe.” Obama confirmed Cockburn’s verdict in his first press conference as president-elect. Disregarding the unanimous US National Intelligence Estimate, which concluded that Iran stopped working on nuclear weapons five years ago, and ignoring the continued certification by the International Atomic Energy Agency that none of the nuclear material for Iran’s civilian nuclear reactor has been diverted to weapons use, Obama sallied forth with the Israel Lobby’s propaganda and accused Iran of “development of a nuclear weapon” and vowing “to prevent that from happening.”

The change that is coming to America has nothing to do with Obama. Change is coming from the financial crisis brought on by Wall Street greed and irresponsibility, from the eroding role of the US dollar as reserve currency, from countless mortgage foreclosures, from the offshoring of millions of America’s best jobs, from a deepening recession, from pillars of American manufacturing--Ford and GM--begging the government for taxpayers’ money to stay alive, and from budget and trade deficits that are too large to be closed by normal means....

The change that is coming is the end of American empire. The hegemon has run out of money and influence. Obama as “America’s First Black President” will lift hopes and, thus, allow the act to be carried on a little longer. But the New American Century is already over.

http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts11102008.html

THE HEGEMON

pika pika!

if you prefer the Titanic, mon, that works

# what are barack obama's flaws? [Started by and what in April 2008, last updated 4 minutes ago] 5 new answers
# not funny [Started by oooh in November 2005, last updated 4 minutes ago] 4 new answers

Paul Craig Roberts is probably right in his overall conclusions, but his piece doesn't exactly speak to Obama's flaws so much as the situation he will find himself in and the limits placed on his choices. Within the context of the office and what can be done right now, Obama will still be a first class president.

Paul Craig Roberts, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration and WSJ & National Review ed:

Paul Craig Roberts, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration and WSJ & National Review ed:

Paul Craig Roberts, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration and WSJ & National Review ed:

Paul Craig Roberts, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration and WSJ & National Review ed:

Paul Craig Roberts, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration and WSJ & National Review ed:

Paul Craig Roberts, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration and WSJ & National Review ed:

Paul Craig Roberts, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration and WSJ & National Review ed:

Paul Craig Roberts, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration and WSJ & National Review ed:

morbs have you found any blogs by chuck colson yet I wonder what he has to say about obama

what the fuck happened to this guy

looking up roberts he seems to be a 9/11 truther nut among other fringey views.

paul craig roberts also thinks that lincoln was "the american pol pot": http://www.vdare.com/roberts/police_state.htm. he's a complete crackpot.

jeez, Bill Clinton was a war criminal but he has some astute things to say

anyone suspected of being a bringer of change could not get confirmed by the Senate

largely true

Disregarding the unanimous US National Intelligence Estimate, which concluded that Iran stopped working on nuclear weapons five years ago, and ignoring the continued certification by the International Atomic Energy Agency that none of the nuclear material for Iran’s civilian nuclear reactor has been diverted to weapons use

Sadly otm

Change is coming from the financial crisis brought on by Wall Street greed and irresponsibility, from the eroding role of the US dollar as reserve currency

Also otm

The change that is coming is the end of American empire.

More wishful than true. We will be weakened, and reduced, but we'll still be the hegemonic world power throughout Obama's administration. Could be true, in a longer time frame.

lol @ ron paul's massive disingenuousness reagan ass-kissing : http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/11/paul.republican/index.html

Most Republicans endorsed this view in order to achieve victories at the polls. Limiting government power and size with less spending and a balanced budget as the goal used to be a "traditional" Republican value. This is what Goldwater and Reagan talked about. That is what the Contract with America stood for.

http://zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/National-Debt-GDP.gif http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/inflation.gif

Fuck Ron Paul, fuck XKCD, peace I'm audi 5gs

buying into lincoln hatred is sort of the kiss-the-ring moment for true right-libertarian nutjobs. you find someone that's on that shit you know you've struck GOLD.

Butterfingers Obama Lets Blackberry Slip
Sign In to E-Mail or Save This Print By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: January 16, 2009
Filed at 12:31 p.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Barack Obama's cherished Blackberry slipped through his fingers Friday -- but it was only a butterfingers moment.

Obama, who has been reluctant to relinquish the device when he becomes president, dropped his Blackberry and its hard plastic case onto an airport tarmac as he emerged from his fortified vehicle.

A Secret Service agent hustled to pick it up.

Secret Service officials are among those urging Obama to give up his Blackberry habit, because it causes security worries. Lawyers think it also poses difficulties in keeping public records.

The wireless e-mail and phone device is Obama's constant companion and link to the outside world.

Told about the fumble, Obama spokesman Robert Gibbs quipped: ''That may have solved his Blackberry dilemma, right? Forget the lawyers!''

No word yet on whether the Blackberry still works.

Broke bread with Will, Krauthammer etc.

If he can make new friends of old enemies, then more power to him.

Yeah I think given the response of the conservative pundits that was a remarkably shrewd move. Do I like any of those guys? No. But not having them hate your guts from the get-go is probably not a bad idea.

I am less thrilled about his overall desire to "reach out" to the right though on certain policy matter (those business tax cuts are ugh and his Guatanamo comments this weekend were pretty irritating) but I'm not sure some of that stuff isn't built to fail (i.e. let a dem congress strip it out while letting Obama seem very bi-partisan).

I can't even imagine Clinton having vodka tonics with Newt Gingrich, let alone Bush with Daschle, so anytime a president can seduce the opposing camp's lapdogs is a huge plus.

i know this has probably been covered ad nauseam elswhere on ilx, but fuuhuhuhuhuuck that Rick Warren dude. I realize that it's a purely ceremonial function, relegated to one half hour of one day and it's not like he's being bandied about as replacement for Sec of Ed. if Arne Duncan gets accused of point shaving during his tenure in Australian league basketball (lol), but I feel Barry could have easily found a clergyman (or woman) with gravity and notoriety that embodies Christian principles without the hateful (re: gays) and willfully ignorant (re: creationism) rhetoric.

Agree about the recent Guantanamo comments, but I still (optimistically) expect real progress on the closure as soon as he's in office. Half expect to be disappointed though...

as the CIA guy says in Charlie Wilson's War, "WE'LL SEE"

i know this has probably been covered ad nauseam elswhere on ilx, but fuuhuhuhuhuuck that Rick Warren dude.

More fun with Rick Warren.

so as far as flaws, Obama's eagerness to reach out to those who vehemently oppose him could be seen as a slap in the face to a lot of people who campaigned tirelessly for him, even when he was spouting off some political CYA bullshit like marriage = man + woman, could, you know, be one.

wotta dick x-post

lol "saddleback" - isn't that when christian youths engage in anal in order to technically stay virgins? ;)

Yeah but his supporters knew they were backing someone whose management style was marked by openness and inclusivity.

Saddlebackers?

Sometimes uses nominative-case pronoun as object of preposition.

precis for the backlash?
"I can't recall a similarly disastrous start in a half-century (far worse than Bill Clinton's initial slips). Obama immediately must lower the hope-and-change rhetoric, ignore Reid/Pelosi, drop the therapy, and accept the tragic view that the world abroad is not misunderstood but quite dangerous. And he must listen on foreign policy to his National Security Advisor, Billary, and the Secretary of Defense. If he doesn't quit the messianic style and perpetual campaign mode, and begin humbly governing, then he will devolve into Carterism—angry that the once-fawning press betrayed him while we the people, due to our American malaise, are to blame."
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZDA1MTkzYTc4NjA5MWQxOGNjMzU3YmZiYTJhZDQ5YTY=
i still have faith that b-o's running a long game around this kind of transparent partisanship, but i wouldn't mind seeing some proof soon

in understanding the world it's important to stay as far away from the writings of victor davis hanson

He's doing a pretty crappy job so far with the "stimulus". Or rather he's sitting back and letting congress do a crappy job. Amounts to the same thing, basically.

hanson's a total tool, true, but there's a lot of similar droning going around in the right-wing echo chamber. i'd like to think it won't gain a wide hearing, but right now the republicans are showing way more on-message party discipline than the democrats

Uh like they always do?

it helps if your statements don't have to be true? there's not a sentence in there that not in bad faith if not outright wrong.

"he promised so much and delivered on half! in two weeks! what a horrible president snicker snicker!"

oh no, democrats are worried about something

re: Daschle:

"I think I screwed up," Obama said in a wide-ranging interview with CNN's Anderson Cooper.

"And I take responsibility for it and we're going to make sure we fix it so it doesn't happen again."

Though I'm less concerned with the screw-up and more-or-less happy that dude can admit a mistake like a human being. I couldn't imagine this sentence coming out of W's mouth for any reason.

look VDH has always batted around .001 so this is good news if it's anything. plus most of his "points" are predictions, ah yes it will all come to pass as you say professor. he's not an analyst but a cosplayer of one, every time he says "it will" or "is going to", read "i really wish and pray super hard that..."

The thing that's most stuck with me from the acceptance speech in November was this:

There will be setbacks and false starts. There are many who won't agree with every decision or policy I make as president. And we know the government can't solve every problem.

But I will always be honest with you about the challenges we face.

Now, this can easily be read as a 'get out of jail free' card -- "Hey, I told you I'd goof!" And the proof ultimately is in the pudding. Still, I'm glad he said it, and the presumption is that he won't have to say it every week, so here's hoping.

i think his flaws may not be any naive expectation of love and comity in international relations, but in expecting that from his domestic political enemies. i basically agree with this (posted to tpm) but i'm not sure the public will be receptive to a 'major address' anymore.

From Theda Skocpol ...

In response to what you are saying: Obama is, sadly, much to blame for giving the Republicans so much leverage. He defined the challenge as biparitsanship not saving the U.S. economy. Right now, he has only one chance to re-set this deteriorating debate: He needs to give a major speech on the economy, explain to Americans what is happening and what must be done. People will, as of now, still listen to him -- and what else is his political capital for?

Speaking as a strong Obama supporter who put my energies and money into it, I am now very disillusioned with him. He spent the last two weeks empowering Republicans -- including negotiating with them to get more into Senate and his administration and giving them virtual veto-power over his agenda -- and also spending time on his personal cool-guy image (as in interview before the Super Bowl). The country is in danger and he ran for president to solve this crisis in a socially inclusionary way. He should be fighting on that front all the time with all his energies -- and he certainly should give a major speech to help educate the public and shape the agenda. That is the least he can and should do. Only that will bypass the media-conserative dynamic that is now in charge.

personal cool-guy image

wtf why are people retarded

^^^OTM

hey shakey and dan, stop working your personal cool-guy images

dude has been president for what, three weeks?

Whiney totally OTM about the apology/admission of error thing

Poll: Public Turning Against Stimulus Bill

By Eric Kleefeld - February 4, 2009, 2:07PM
A new Rasmussen poll shows that support for the stimulus plan appears to be falling precipitously in the last two weeks, since it became as heavily politicized as it is now:

Do you favor or oppose the economic recovery package proposed by Barack Obama and the Congressional Democrats?

Favor 37%
Oppose 43%

A week ago Rasmussen had a 42%-39% plurality favoring the plan, and a 45%-34% margin of support two weeks ago. Support among independents has fallen to 27%, unchanged from a week ago but down from 37% support two weeks ago.

So the Republican talking points out there against he bill -- too much spending, redistribution of wealth, stacking hundred-dollar bills on top of each other, etc -- appear to be having some measure of success.

that's what i'm saying. rightwing pundits and politicians are all over the place trash talking the stimulus and i'd like to see b-o take command of the dialogue again. but maybe he's just giving the naysayers enough rope to hang themselves

"This guy who kept saying that he wanted to end partisan politics keeps trying to work with people in the other party! That's not why I voted for him!" <--- this line of rhetoric earns an instant "stfu, douchebag" from me

Such fucking irresponsibility among Republicans is hard to fathom, even when it is perfectly evident and has been for a long time.

It is time to rewrite Chapter 11 to require all corporate officers of bankrupt corporations to place their own assets into the bankruptcy and follow the corporation into receivership. Then the fuckers won't be so happy to see hard times coming.

that idea appears to not make even a lick of sense beyond being vindictive

Maybe that's because you haven't given it a lick of thought, Dan.

the gop has a lot of batshit economic ideas floating around in it as a general rule, but now they have a positive incentive to torpedoing the stimulus -- tank the economy, give the president a black eye, blame him for the mess in '10.

quite a few things have gotten me riled up a bit in the past week or so, say, right-wingers talking about how obama's a failure already, cheney's politico interview, republicans more or less dominating the stimulus debate despite not being in political power, mainstream press talking about how much of a disaster the nomination process has become, a bunch of things.

but it helps to take a deep breath and remember that the gop just faced some serious fucking losses (seems like ages ago), probably aren't poised to gain any congressional majorities in '10, and obama is actually in there for 4 more years at least (i still can't get over this after feeling like bush was president like forever), likely eight if nothing major happens.

there's a difference between being fair to the other party and hearing them out vs. letting them frame the stimulus debate in the media

what goole posted is basically otm - who cares what the republicans think!! if obama thinks that the bill is on point he should tell them to fuck off and pass it w/ only dem support. what are the drawbacks, politically? if it's a wild success then it will reflect highly on him, no matter who voted for it. and if it's a wild failure then it will reflect poorly on him, regardless of who voted for it.

and yeah the fact that he has allowed them to 100% control the debate on this issue is mind blowing

this is a bit o_0

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-v-santore/what-is-obamas-rendition_b_162927.html

at least, i wanna see one of these fabled threatened filibusters actually happen. make mitch mcconnell stand up and read the fucking phone book or whatever and we'll see who really gets embarrassed by it.

and while i'm at it, i think the fact that bank nationalization is totally off the table is even more frustrating.

gee where's morbs when we need him

toasting marshmallows

"this is a bit o_0"

Article has been largely debunked elsewhere.

It basically conflates "rendition" with "extraordinary rendition," one of which is a synonym for "extradition from another country to the United States in order to face due process" and one of which is a synonym for "extradition to countries that will torture you." Obama is keeping the former and suspending the latter.

cool, good to know.

IMHO it's not just the right wing pundits out there pushing GOP talking points, it's pretty much mainstream media.. booking a lot more GOP guests/commentators to repeat this stuff.
i don't buy for a second (never did) the explanation that obama is playing some mysterious other level chess game that the rest of us mortals just don't understand.

all it is is, right wing/drudge report driving the public dialogue & media happily following - as usual. really aggravating. cherry picking items in the bill that are comparatively miniscule in order to trash it & the democrats.. and furthermore, too many "liberal" writers/commentators happy to go right along and say, let's cave in to the GOP & just cross out whatever they complain about, that'll be a good strategy. ugh.

mainstream media is just going along with it right now for the main reason they always do: they require drama.

I mean they did the same thing during the campaign, seesawing back and forth about Hillary ("ooh she's washed up! But wait, a comeback!") Its all just manufactured narrative bullshit that doesn't matter. You know why? Cuz in the end this stimulus bill will pass along a party line vote, and Obama will say to the Republicans "hey, I tried to include you but you were a bunch of bitchy whiny babies AND YOU STILL LOST."

This was going to happen to any President, regardless of who it was; you would see the exact same shitstorm swirling around Clinton, McCain, or Romney had the chips fallen slightly differently.

i really and truly do not think we're seeing anything at all unusual either in the losing party's response to the winning party's first few weeks in office, or in the press's post-inaugural shift to a critical stance. obama's got a big, ugly job in front of him, the ever-swelling stimulus package was bound to attact a LOT of negative attention no matter what, and his appointment stumbles couldn't have been more poorly timed.

take it in stride. we'll know better what way the wind is blowing a couple years from now.

and yeah none of this is in the least bit surprising - barring the issue with the withdrawn nominees, which is really minor imho.

I remember Ned frequently reminding us in the midst of shitstorms before the election that "It's only February."

"It's only June."

"It's only October."

Now I find myself thinking: guys? It's only February 2009.

People remember when Supreme Court nominees get shot down - failed cabinet nominees are forgotten almost immediately and rightly so

I'm sure we're gonna remember Daschle, though

"People remember when Supreme Court nominees get shot down"

Sorta. They remember memorable ones.

Harriet Miers and Hugh Hewitt, BFF

Daschle will still be around in some fashion though, unlike oh Linda Chavez who crawled back under some rock.

ugh Miers/Bork fanfiction would be the worst thing ever

"Can you mix...THIS kind of martini?"

slash fiction would top it.

Or is it just implied that all fanfic is slash now?

Miers/Bork/Palin/Katie Couric slash fic

my formatting was meant to imply slash; the inclusion of the word "fanfiction" was a mistake (as was thinking up the concept of "Miers/Bork", ugh ugh ugh)

Miers/Coulter/Palin/Malkin

I'm sorry I will stop trying to ruin life

my slashes between the names in my previous post represent slashing

Miers/Limbaugh

Andrew Sullivan ran this letter:

You have identified an approach by Obama that seems to be confounding the political pundits on CNN, Fox, and MSNBC, among others. For example, the political “experts” on CNN yesterday wondered why Obama let the Republicans in the House get the “upper hand” on the stimulus bill. They are still operating under the grudge expectations of the past (i.e., now that the Democrats are in charge they can take retribution against the Republicans). Obama clearly seems to want none of this. He really seems to mean it when he says that this bill is not “his” bill, but everyone seems to be skeptical. It’s understandable since Washington has operated in this mode of political revenge for so long now (at least since the Clinton years) that Democrats are waiting for him to give them the battle charge to vanquish the Republicans and Republicans are wondering when the veneer will drop and Obama will sucker-punch them. I admit that this, too, is my natural political inclination. But I learned during the primary and presidential campaigns that every time I second-guessed Obama by wanting him to play the game as it has always been played, he proved me wrong.

Change will not come in two weeks. It will be a long process that requires building trust first. He seems right now to be committed to this process and I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Yeah, I don't see it (pace Daria upthread) as an 'other' level chess game, just a long-term one. It might well not work, but that's the risk run to start with.

I don't agree with bits of that letter either.

interesting re: Sully

altho in general I don't like him at all

maybe he'll set up daschle as some kind of czar working on health care or related issues - the advantage being, no need for confirmation by the Senate.

xp: It's an "other level chess game" in the sense that he seems to actually be playing backgammon.

"Checkmate."

"Yeah, uh...wait."

"I jumped your king, that's $200 you owe me rent."

the writer assumes that things ran on grudge expectations in the past. questionable IMHO

well, certainly some of Pelosi's aggression (and the Gingrich Repubs in the nineties) depended on grudge politics.

not at all questionable imo

and resentment isn't necessarily a bad thing. RE the stimulus I agree with Barney Frank's remark the other day: Obama may have overstated his ability to bridge political divides. But we'll see.

it's February 4th

You just learned that yourself, right?

the point i take from sullivan's post is.. for a long time, it's going to be possible to explain everything that happens vis-a-vis obama administration as.. this is the new politics, which is different from the old politics, and everyone else just doesn't understand. perhaps they should invent shorthand or a nice acronym for this explanation, because it's not interesting, but at least it could be said briefly.

Joan Didion wrote an essay in the late eighties called "In the Court of the Fisher King" or something, in which she eroded in her understated way the claim that Reagan's misstatements and blunders were really "signals" sent over the heads of the media to his true interpreters, The Base. Obama ain't Reagan, not by a long shot, but I don't want to get into the fortune telling trade yet.

"everything that happens" = uh what exactly? that's pretty broad. Everything bad that happens? Everything good? Every bill that actually passes? A terrorist attack? Withdrawal from Iraq? Capturing Bin Laden?

as far as media commentary on the politics of any situation - yeah - i await plenty of "you just don't get it, this is the new politics." right now IMHO this is not the new politics, this is right wing talking points & the gop screwing up obama's plans, which IMHO is a very bad thing for the country.

i mean GOP/right wing winning the message battle over this, is a bad thing for the country. i trust obama's people are mostly on point, i mostly get annoyed about stuff they're taking out of the bill

yeah, i really hope that team O wasn't really expecting a lot of cooperation from the gop, on anything. they've got dudes out there showing placards of stacked dollar bills (omg), saying transit spending is not stimulative at all (wtf), or calling the bill a "mugging" (lol). time to cut them out. nobody remembers bipartisanship after a week except david broder. put a good bill together and get it to 51.

is it me or is it not really obvious that offering to cooperate with the GOP and then them acting like childish assholes makes the childish assholes look bad, not the other way around. This thing will pass along party lines, the public will go along with it and move on to the next crisis, and the GOP will have further isolated themselves like the jackasses they are.

yes, but in going along with the game, we'll come out with some weak brew of business breaks, tax cuts for buying america cars, and piddly road fixups, and not a gop yea vote in the bargain. it's not just the optics of the process that matter but the meat of the bill passed

i don't buy for a second (never did) the explanation that obama is playing some mysterious other level chess game that the rest of us mortals just don't understand.

― NFL RUNOFF miss u plaxico (daria-g), Wednesday, February 4, 2009 3:57 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

u didnt even buy it when the metanarratives around your candidate sunk her?

i mean in this case im not so sure hes on the right track but come on, u think it was just dumb luck & not his 'chess game' that had him beat the biggest name in dem politics??

It helped that her campaign seemed to be run by three-year-olds.