Is this the Juno thread?

Paste just called it the number one film of the year...Not that I trust Paste, but I'm a sucker for "All the Young Dudes" and Belle & Sebastian.

But I also have this bad feeling that it will be like Junebug (one amazing performance stuck in a terribly mediocre film)

Here's the trailer

Junebug was so horrible. But my dog liked the beginning yodeling.

this looks so awful

by "one amazing performance" I hope you're talking about Vern Schillinger

it's not that bad but it's not that good either. the dialogue was real bad and it's pretty corny indie but even if it wasn't executed so amazingly i was glad to see a movie about a teenage girl who is interested in things and has a personality w/o being old guy jerkoff fantasy

Except she is, kind of. But I actually thought was the most interesting part of the movie -- the relationship between her and Jason Bateman -- in that it introduced some palpable tension and raised questions about the nature of their attraction to each other.

I dunno, I liked this for the most part, but some of the dialogue and the indie-quirky aesthetic was pretty grating, to be sure.

i kind of want to see for michael cera alone, but it looks pretty annoying

Michael Cera only has about a dozen lines.

(Like, I'm not really sure why he's second-billed.)

Same reason Brando is second-billed in Apocalypse Now.

Because he's hugely fat, lazy, unprepared, and argumentative.

http://z.about.com/d/tvcomedies/1/0/Y/-/-/-/george_michael_bluth.jpg

"Talk about the bloodlust."

Huh.

Also disappointed that Bateman and Cera never appear in the same scene, although J.K. Simmons uses the term "Pop-Pop" at one point.

Except she is, kind of

I mean I'm pretty sure she's not the screenwriter's jerkoff fantasy. Except the primarily non-sexual jerkoff fantasy of being a sassy independent quirk icon I guess. I thought the relationship btwn her and Batman was the most interesting thing too

haha Batman

Does it really end with them singing a Moldy Peaches song to each other? Is Miranda July watching through the window Dawson style?

i got suckered into this unawares...

dialogue is so ridiculous this is destined to be b-movie cult fodder in 10-20 years (heathers, valley girl, etc.)

the girl (Juno) is okay but the guy (Bleeker) is pretty great! Dad and step mom are not bad either.

Should i feel scared that the Jason Bateman character reminded me a little too much of myself? Eek.

the Alias chick bugs. i have a feeling she wasn't acting and that's her true self. grody to the max.

i really hate these kinds of movies.

This isn't as much one of those kinds of movies.

Though the opening few minutes make it seem like it will the the MOST of those kinds of movies.

Michael Cera only has about a dozen lines.

-- jaymc, Monday, December 17, 2007 8:23 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

(Like, I'm not really sure why he's second-billed.)

-- jaymc, Monday, December 17, 2007 8:23 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

18 Superbad Sony 21,463,226 3,069 $33,052,411 2,948 8/17/07 10/21/07

Yeah, that's baffling alright.

actually once i see this i might like it, i just hate having to feel like i should be seeing it since eveyrone is talking about

it.

Saw this tonight, and really hated that just about every character in the film practically screamed "I AM SUCH A QUIRKY WITTY SCREENWRITER, AND BTW I HAVE AWESOME TASTE IN MUSIC". I had to sneak into another movie afterwards just to get the bad taste out of my mouth.

so Gilmore Girls: The Movie, basically?

It's even got a Garden State scene where they replace The Shins with Sonic Youth covering the Carpenters. Your move, Zach Braff.

The thing is I'm not even sure what kind of movie Junebug was in the end - superficially it had some quirky indie signifiers but my reaction in the end was mostly just "huh?"

it was basically a music video.

i liked this movie. it's very likeable. and funny.

so Gilmore Girls: The Movie, basically?

Perpetua beat you to this.

Roger Ebert is "backing" this one the way he did Crash, so I'm very afraid.

I'm not sure it deserves all the plaudits it's been getting, but there is something quite likeable about it once you get past all the "indie signifiers."

saw it last weekend, i enjoyed it. i definitely agree that the dialogue in the first 15 or 20 minutes was wayyy too much, and while the quirky dialogue is there to stay, the characters/story get rounded a bit more. overally i thought it was a cute indie flick. a bit over the top tweeness with a lot of the music, but i guess it worked with the film. a lot of self-consciously indie tropes used but the film had a decent aesthetic going on.

good performances all around, i thought. michael cera was awesome, even if he only had a few lines. i haven't seen arrested development, does he play pretty much the same role?

there is something quite likeable about it once you get past all the "indie signifiers."

exactly.

man any interest I had in this (mostly bc of Cera & Bateman) is rapidly draining away.

Even besides all the indie sigs, besides the obnoxiously stylized dialog, the whole message of the film is srsly dubious.

If your teenage lover gets prego, don't sweat it, dude. With adoption, you can put blinders on, and after 9 kinda shitty (but kinda punkrock) months, she can forget about the whole thing too.

This film is an awesome sex ed tool.

my hangover's telling me not to see any movies made after 1978

Saw this tonight, and really hated that just about every character in the film practically screamed "I AM SUCH A QUIRKY WITTY SCREENWRITER, AND BTW I HAVE AWESOME TASTE IN MUSIC". I had to sneak into another movie afterwards just to get the bad taste out of my mouth.

Mostly OTM, although Janney, Batemen, and Garner are pretty good. They can act through a mouthful of moldy peaches.

This movie was too much like Ghost World, with Bateman playing Steve Buscemi in Gap clothes.

This movie was too much like Ghost World

I wish.

I liked it. I thought it was sweet.

i thought it was enjoyable too, though most negative comments here and elsewhere seem to center around the film's self-awareness and being too clever for its own good, which made me wonder: where is that line between clever and too-clever/in-love-with-its-own-cleverness, and how do you know when it has been crossed?

i suspect sincerity has a lot to do with it, and perhaps the film's first 15 minutes vs the rest of it is a good example of where that line is drawn. but again, i laughed at the first 15 minutes "despite" knowing how hard it was trying -- so does it really matter if it's not being "honest"?

I didn't laugh at all. These things are subjective. I mean, it was unbearable for a whole fucking hour before Reitman let things breathe.

when was the last time a screenwriter did this much more publicity for a film than the director?

i mean there are people like Charlie Kauffman who get press, but I don't think he went on TV with the star while Michel Gondry and Spike Jonze stayed at home.

when was the last time a screenwriter did this much more publicity for a film than the director?

If you ran a studio, would you support someone named "Jason Reitman" or "Diablo Cody"?

saw this. bad movie. bad bad bad.

but where are the screenwriters who want publicity?

I just saw it. First third is in overdrive establishing what a firecracker Juno is, but after the movie settles in, it improves.

The dialogue is way overwritten and everybody talks like uber-hip robots instead of like people but Michael Cera actually comes out human. It was interesting how we sided with the male yuppie at first and the woman seemed obsessive and anal until it switches and we come to see that she really wants this kid and the guy is a selfish prick.

The soundtrack is oppresively twee however. It's worth seeing and kind of enjoyable but nothing specatcular.

If the director had been a hipster stripper, I'm sure he'd get more of the press work.

a Stripster?

"Though the opening few minutes make it seem like it will the the MOST of those kinds of movies."

OTM, I was cringing for the first dozen or so minutes. Anyway I was bugged by all the usual things I am bugged by (overuse of soundtrack nonsense, cute-sy little credits, dialogue so snappy that it hurts your ears, and an overabundance of twee nonsense that even Miranda July might have thought better of filming) BUT to this movie's credit it's a lot better than most films of this ilk (esp. acting-wise) and a couple of affecting and funny moments manage to sneak in (possibly by accident.) I wouldn't recommend it to everyone, but you could do a lot worse.

The way Reitman primes the audience to laugh at Jennifer Garner's anal-ness, then shows how it's a symptom of her shyness and insecurity, is really well done.

i cant believe how much kimya dawson they crammed into this bullshit

Oh lord did this movie stink.

I liked Michael Cera ("Actually I try really hard," was the best line in the whole movie.)

I liked certain moments, but overall the whole thing felt like a hipped-up afterschool special or Christian teen flick, and it gave me the same nagging sense of distrust.

I could not stand the main character.

I went in fully prepared to hate every second of this movie, especially after seeing it chopped and parsed here and other places. AND considering I generally have a strong distate of the precious indie film genre already. So imagine my surprise at not only laughing through the whole thing, but finding it totally charming and kind of touching in spots. The first 15 minutes, as noted above, don't seem nearly as bad once you've moved past them in the story and can look back and see how they set up the "world" in which the movie exists.

The only real complaint was the copious amounts of music, especially the Kimya/Moldy Peaches content. Can't a movie like this have a score instead of a indie fuX0r soundtrack, fer chrissakes?

ugh

is this like thumbsucker?

I made it less than 10 minutes into Thumbsucker before I put it back in its Netflix envelope, so...no.

hey guys i don't want to see this

me too. also i liked thumbsucker.

It's better than Thumbsucker, but that's not much of an accomplishment really.

I liked Michael Cera ("Actually I try really hard," was the best line in the whole movie.)

I could not stand the main character.

these are both v. OTM
and they give away that michael cera line in the commercials!

i cant believe how much kimya dawson they crammed into this bullshit

-- bell_labs, Wednesday, 26 December 2007 05:44 (Yesterday) Link

holy shit so otm. so now i know what i've been uh, missing? fuck me. so, so bad.

anyway... so many hate-able things about this movie, quite a coup that I came away somehow kinda liking it. as noted above, some genuinely touching & funny scenes. also, props for not turning Bateman (or Garner, for that matter) into a monster.

that sonic youth record is just noise

went to see this last night at v. popular movie theatre and it was sold out!! that must be a good sign...

saw this on friday because my mom wanted to go for her b-day, and surprisingly, i didn't really hate it. lots of cringey things in it (way too much music and embarassing music references, pretty easy to see where the plot was going), but made up for with strong performances all around

during the opening credits, the song reminded me of barry louis polisar, this guy who made offbeat kid's music and who played at my elementary school in maryland, made me wonder what he was up to these days. yesterday i look up the soundtrack and i see the song was by polisar after all. today i look up his website and he's still going strong, playing in the maryland area and putting out kid's albums. i can still recite many of his songs from memory, i might need to buy a couple of his cds

The director and writer deserve a dart in the ass for the "All babies want to get borned" scene alone.

I agree. That's not a good sequence.

This movie is the most redeemed movie ever, judging by how many people (myself included) have gone the "I liked it better, I should have hated this" route.

I'm firmly in the "I mostly hated it, I should have liked it better" camp.

Yeah, I am in the camp that expected to hate this more than Garden State and Little Miss Sunshine combined, so I should hardly be surprised I didn't.

oh i definitely liked it more than garden state and little miss sunshine

also michael cera was very good and more of a presence than i expected after jaymc's comments upthread

yeah I would watch this again whereas GS & LMS not so much. Not that I necessarily hated the other two, just, you know... whatever.

The cutesy-folksy-Wes Andersony soundtrack = bleccch

Watching it a second time I realized ... the last entire 15 minutes of the movie is one big montage set to those shitty songs. There are, like, five in a row.

If you watch it a third time, you'll realize that the entire 90 minutes is one long montage of moldy peaches.

after pro-deregulation corporatism diguised as satire thank u for smoking and pro-life disguised as indie flick juno what right wing position will jason reitman make hip in his next movie?

http://archive.salon.com/ent/movies/review/2004/07/28/garden_state/story.jpg
"i have to tell you something... the surge is working!"

pro-life disguised as indie flick

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ec/CitizenRuthPoster.jpg/200px-CitizenRuthPoster.jpg

citizen ruth was not pro-life

http://www.ferraraworld.com/photogallery/garden_state.jpg
"all it takes is tamper-proof id cards"

citizen ruth was not pro-life

Or pro-choice.

or pro-abortion

(to coin a phrase)

http://www.cinedrama.de/Bilder/rushmore.jpg
colonia decuma corrigo... it's latin for "estate tax reform"

There are, like, five in a row.

Are "those shitty songs" all by the Moldy Peaches? cuz they're one of the few bands of the last 10 years worth loving.

Then again, I can't tell "Nasty" from all those interchangeable Prince proteges' hits.

Janet's "Nasty" or Vanity 6's "Vanity"?

The Velvets' "I'm Sticking With You" is in there somewhere, sounding arch and coy in this company.

The Moldy Peaches and Spielberg. You pick the weirdest shit to love.

I hope they score his Lincoln movie

Wait, I'd assumed the songs were all Kimya Dawson. Are some of them Moldy Peaches? (Not a genre connoisseur obv.)

I dunno, if "pro-life" = "opposed to abortion being legal," I'm not sure the movie takes this stance per se.

citizen ruth was not pro-life

Or pro-choice.

-- Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, January 7, 2008 6:07 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

uh?

it really is.

i think by treating it as a non-viable option you're chipping away at support for it, but i havent seen the film

thank you for smoking pissed me off more than any movie ive seen maybe ever, and took a similar aw-shucks stance - 'yeah smoking kills but itd be pretty gay to try and regulate it!'

That's what you get making a movie based on a Christopher Buckley novel.

uh?

it really is.

The only thing the movie endorses is the heroine's delight in financially exploiting the wingbats on both sides.

Stay away from Charlie Wilson's War, ethan.

"i think by treating it as a non-viable option you're chipping away at support for it, but i havent seen the film"

I don't think the movie treats it as non-viable option (in fact, in contrast to Knocked Up it's ACTUALLY brought up as an option.) The one actual pro-life person in the movie is portrayed as being totally ridiculous. Of course, the Planned Parenthood people are treated as being pretty doofus-y too which is kind of sad.

The only thing the movie endorses is the heroine's delight in financially exploiting the wingbats on both sides.

i think it's too "equal opportunities" in its satire, but it's def pro-choice.

"Stay away from Charlie Wilson's War, ethan."

Good advice for everyone.

Any crit of Planned Parenthood is heresy, of course. Calls to mind the Clinton figleaf "SAFE, LEGAL AND RARE" -- like any Dem pols are breaking their backs to make it rare.

It's just the choice Ruth makes at the end has nothing to do with whether or not to have her baby.

If you like the music in Juno, Morbs, you should double-time it to a screening of Once.

i think the movie pretty clearly doesnt think it's a good idea for ruth to have the baby, they just sidestep it by having her miscarry

"like any Dem pols are breaking their backs to make it rare"

You are kidding, right? You don't think that trying to provide adequate family planning/birth control isn't trying to make it rare?

and while the pro-choice wiccan lesbians are pretty goofy they arent as outright repugnant as the pro-lifers

depends how you feel about wiccan lesbos.

i dunno obviously youre getting close to bullshit south park style 'fair-minded' satire with that but if the pro-choicers were more saintly it wouldve been dismissable propaganda

"Any crit of Planned Parenthood is heresy, of course."

I don't think that the movie's view of Planned Parenthood or the single pro-life girl is really intelligent enough to be called a crit anyway, but my experience with pro-lifers who stand outside of clinics is that they ARE wingbats while most people I've known who worked at those clinics were pretty normal so yeah I'd say it was a pretty lame "equal opportunity criticism" or whatever.

xp: I do, Alex, and Dems, in the main, aren't doing enough for it.

Eric, given yr musical predilections I don't expect you to distinguish the Moldy Peaches from The Frames.

(however, I'm wary of Juno bcz I could easily be turned off by the Moldys' music being used as a crutch)

Apparently Ellen Page is behind the quantity of MPs on the soundtrack:

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/news/47444-the-moldy-peaches-reunite-for-ijunoi-premiere

Notice me not taking the bait, Morbs?

"xp: I do, Alex, and Dems, in the main, aren't doing enough for it."

At what level? Nationally? State? Locally?

yes, perhaps, sure

I know you're better than that, E.

maybe ppl who actually have had to deal with abortion clinics should stick to discussing this and leave the opinions of bitchy old maid paultard queens out of it

Oh haha OK Kimya Dawson is in the Moldy Peaches.

Ouch.

"Enough" is tough standard. I certainly agree they could do more probably at all three levels. But no doubt in my mind that Dems at all levels are trying a lot harder than Republicans to make it "rare".

maybe you should give me yr address, ethan, so you can see how bitchy I can get.

maybe you should give me yr address, ethan, so you can see how bitchy I can get.

-- Dr Morbius, Monday, January 7, 2008 6:47 PM (4 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

Scared? Kind of excited, too? All mixed up?

If memory serves, one of the songs has a lyric that went a little something like this: "I am the church and you are my steeple / We sure are cute for two ugly people."

yeah! delightful!

Eric, I think (OK, have the slimmest of hopes) you'd like "Steak for Chicken."

I think I'll take "who's that eating that nasty food."

Are there guitars involved?

I saw this with last week. I really liked it, but apparently because I didn't think it was the greatest film of the year, I've been getting flack from people. I mean, it was entertaining and funny.

Is this really the best movie of 2007, tho?

(I've been getting the same reaction to ONCE. I kinda liked ONCE, but people are horrified that I haven't already bought the DVD.)

Wait -- you know people who own Once?

Is there a Once thread? The arguments there should be "fun." (except I'm not sure if anyone besides Mordechai has been kind to it here)

How did you get past the guitars on Prince records, E?

Why is that so hard to believe, Alfred? I know at least two people (including one who posts here) who called it their favorite film of the year.

The Belated Thread for Once

i thought it was pretty pro-life, really. it's also incredibly obnoxious, unfunny, and formulaic.

Well, yeah. The abortion clinic scene was really horrid. But I laughed at things at least a few times. I thought Rainn Wilson was funny. And - erm - yeah.

actually, probably all of my favorite movies are formulaic so that's not neccessarily a criticism. but if you're going to make a gigantic song and dance about how iconoclastic the characters are, fill the script with badly-handled "indie" signifiers, and change your name to d1ablo cody, then it might be a problem.

How did you get past the guitars on Prince records, E?

Um, they ejaculate instead of dribble a limp stream of tears?

Hell, I even like Juno more than Once, and that probably includes the music too.

is d1ablo cody any relation to turn3r cody? the moldy peaches thing would at least make sense then

It's a pseudonym.

I like that one Once song. "Falling Slowly"

I can't remember any of the others.

I found Once pretty horrifying, lots worse than Juno, but these thoughts don't belong here.

ALSO:

Shadowcat PWNs Juno.

I thought Rainn Wilson was funny

that was by far the worst scene, every other word was some ridiculous bullshit like "homeskillet"

the first half of this was super anoying .... got a little better later I thought

the scene with the ultrasound technician is pretty terrible, too.

god forbid anyone criticize teenage pregnancy!

I haven't been in the suburbs since I moved out of my parent's home, but the "homeskillet" dialogue seemed true to a bunch of middle class white kids who thought they were linguistically cutting edge. But probably someone would know better than me.

The film wasn't criticizing teenage pregnancy. If anything, it was glorifying it. It was criticizing abortion.

the scene with the ultrasound technician is pretty terrible, too.

A total failure. Janney did the best with those curdled wisecracks, but I ended up sympathizing with the technician.

oh, sorry lauren. I didn't put your two comments together.

But yeah, fuck the technician for being relieved that the baby was going to be adopted.

by the end of that scene, i was hoping that the technician would punch her in the stomach.

"See? You can have an abortion after all!"

Also, I didn't get where Michael Cera was the entire film. He was the father, and he had about 10 minutes on screen. I understand that these kids weren't going to be the parents, but you'd think there'd be SOME fallout.

juno's character was so unsympathetic. she reminded me of this girl i hated in high school.

dmr OTM, and i can't believe an ad i saw on tv recently uses "honest to blog!" as a potential selling point for this movie

also, kimya dawson = NO NO A THOUSAND TIMES NO

http://www.comedycentral.com/motherload/player.jhtml?ml_video=102906&is_large=true

"honest to blog" = my new leftwing political blog name, holmes. 4 rlz, homeskilletz.

xpost yeah, there's that too, juno being incredibly annoying

i do hope this movie gets people to see WIZARD OF GORE tho

the theater ERUPTED when wilson said "home skillet." also, when the asian girl said "borned."

so was jason bateman supposed to be scamming on juno personally or just generally awakened to the idea of being with someone who shared his interests?

weird, both of those lines got polite chuckles at best where i saw it (in an audience comprised mostly of kids my age or younger)

Jason Bateman seemed a bit... ya know... like a pedophile.

so was jason bateman supposed to be scamming on juno personally or just generally awakened to the idea of being with someone who shared his interests?

Both, but he has the good fortune of not being in love with her, as Cera plainly is.

he was definitely scamming on her

he was so horrifying.

the bit when jennifer garner says, "your shirt is ugly. grow up." might have been favorite part.

juno + superbad = canadian invasion

Yeah, if it weren't for Jennifer Garner, I probably couldn't have ever made it through the second time around.

Superbad > Knocked Up > Juno

Was anyone else waiting for a wink-wink/nudge-nudge Michael Cera Jason Bateman moment?

is Cera capable of wink-wink? His whole appeal consists in his absolute sincerity.

Bateman has enough licentious wink in him for the both of them.

why bother wink-and-nudging over a TV show nobody saw

"At one point we were joking that he would walk by in the background of a scene and I would do a double-take as if to be like, 'I know that guy from somewhere!' " Bateman grinned. "But we never ended up doing that."

keeping Jason Bateman's bad ideas offscreen are second-best to keeping him offscreen.

he's good in Dodgeball

I guess I can understand hating on this movie, but I couldn't really do it myself. Undiscussed in this thread--THAT is how you fucking pace and structure a screenplay. It's formulaic, it's simple, but it's pretty much a lost art in Hollywood these days. There isn't a second of wasted motion in this movie and that helps mitigate its lamer moments.

You pace and structure a screenplay by making the last 15 minutes a buncha different lazy music-driven montages?

There should have been a sequel to <i>Teen Wolf Too</i>.

Or one big montage or whatever...I haven't seen it, so I shouldn't even be chiming in, but it sounds terrible

i liked this movie ok, but the soundtrack was atrocious. can't tell if ellen page is charming or obnoxious half the time. liked her folks, tho. dad was a champ. cera seems like a bro.

I thought the music got better as it went along - the opening song was really really annoying, but the closing one was just right. I didn't notice any more music in the last 15 minutes than in any other chunk of the movie.

i thought pacing and structure were a huge problem. the main part is a barrage of snarky monologues, to the point that the characters don't actually engage with one another. then, wham! comes the last bit and the "heartfelt" mushiness: it's really hard being pregnant, i'm not in love with you anymore, i had to make sacrifices for you, yadda yadda. it's difficult to have it both ways. a few minutes of boohooing wasn't going to get me to warm up to the cast.

i am pretty much on board with lauren here in that this movie was a big stinker

Yeah, it was pretty terrible.

You pace and structure a screenplay by making the last 15 minutes a buncha different lazy music-driven montages?

Sure you do. It's a happy ending--it's about tying everything up. This isn't groundbreaking shit, it's writing an entirely competent comedic film.

For all the bitching about the music in this movie, I don't remember a single thing about it except the church/steeple line from the last song. Is it really that big of a deal?

Score one for the ladies.

Lauren, I think you're really overstating the shift that takes place here. The whole thing seemed pretty even in tone to me. I mean, yeah, it's gonna get more serious--every movie like this does. But I didn't think it got anywhere near mushy. The end rang a lot more true than Little Miss Sunshine or whatever bullshit.

a) what happened to the thread for all the movie assholes and how did you guys manage to escape from it?

b) so those of you who totally hated this movie: did you not read any reviews or even synopses of this movie before you saw it? did you just pick a movie at random? because every review i read talked about the twee indie music, the precocious dialogues, and everything else you whiners are complaining about. so why the fuck did you go see it?

Watch out when this movie/character becomes "one for the ages," as the TV ads promise.

very review i read talked about the twee indie music, the precocious dialogues, and everything else you whiners are complaining about. so why the fuck did you go see it?

(a) I've a brain (b) Most of the reviews are good to excellent.

she was irritating as hell all the way through , so i suppose that's one constant.

xpost

so why the fuck did you go see it?

we had passes for one of the lamer theater chains, with restrictions, so it came down to juno, one missed call, enchanted, or let them expire. i appreciate concern, nick!

not enough of a brain to read between the lines, i guess

my friend is in 'one missed call' you shoulda seen that

lauren, you'll get no sympathy from me for skipping Enchanted.

And n/a, I didn't hate the movie. I actually liked it a bunch. I just didn't think it was the greatest film of the year.

I'm not sure a film about a teenager who is irritating as hell is in itself guilty of anything but verisimilitude. Young people suck.

that's fine, i thought it was pretty mediocre, it's just the usual ILX film snob assholes in not liking juno shocka

i was home for winter break, bored, and ticket prices are cheaper in central jersey. also i wanted to talk about it with friends who have seen it

I can't wait for the 2,000-post Alex in Baltimore, Eric H., Alfred, Lord Sotosyn and Dr. Morbius clusterfuck thread on Meet the Spartans.

GUESS WHAT: THEY DIDN'T LIKE IT

xp: unless you get a life

Uh, Nick, are you forgetting how things work around here? Someone reactivates thread and people comment shockah.

wow i became one of "the movie assholes" (with top billing, no less!) for posting on like 3 movie threads in the past year? i must be batting .900 or something.

You pace and structure a screenplay by making the last 15 minutes a buncha different lazy music-driven montages?

Sure you do. It's a happy ending--it's about tying everything up. This isn't groundbreaking shit, it's writing an entirely competent lame comedic film.

ok, maybe you're just one of those dudes who's wrong about a wide range of topics, i can't keep everyone straight

here's all i'm trying to say: if there's a movie that it's really obvious you're going to hate, you don't have to see it. there's a great big world out there guys

fly a kite

I haven't seen it and don't intend to, you boring sponge.

Speaking for myself, I need something to be bitchy about today, and kite-flying ain't gonna cut it.

yeah, trust me, i'm way more of a music asshole who occasionally dabbles in being other kinds of assholes. anyway you're preaching to the converted w/ me, don't wanna see Juno and probably won't (though i'm not ruling out catching on HBO on a slow weekend a year from now), not bitching about it here, since not seeing movies I don't think I'll like also kinda robs me of being able to say much about them (which is why my posts on the Borat thread was a lost cause).

(xpost)

here's all i'm trying to say: if there's a movie that it's really obvious you're going to hate, you don't have to see it

There's no way of knowing this unless it's a Paul Haggis film.

So let's talk about Crash.

i actually went into it thinking I might like it! because everyone was like YAAAY JUNO SOOOOOO GOOD Y'ALL

I know this movie would have confused the HELL, the fucking HELL, out of me if I saw it at age of Juno, year # 16. About sex & relationships & shit.

Stepmom = amazing badass BUT Mevlinswank adopted dad = megacrepe x10^23. Like srsly I started crying when he got all seducey on her. I've dated too many guys who were like "yeah my grandpa is offering to pay for me to get a masters of library science but instead I think I'll move to Portland bcz I really think I need to MAKE it." *WOMITS* I felt unburning hatred for that man. It really fucking ruined the movie for me.

That and the girl's got too much sassback. Pretty much a wash, this one.

Unintentional comedy gold: "Oh, yeah, and I bought another Sonic Youth album, and it was JUST NOISE!!!" Hoo burn.

I haven't seen it and don't intend to, you boring sponge.

-- Dr Morbius, Monday, January 7, 2008 8:19 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

surprise!

Good line: "cautionary whale"

otm, that was pretty funny

thank you for smoking was pretty awful actually so i don't think i'll see this retarded looking movie

Juno != Thank You For Smoking

Two entirely different films.

yeah but i wish i followed the logic of hating TYFS & not seeing this

haven't seen it but hope it's good

Same director? xp

I know Nicole, but they are nothing alike.

I saw this on Saturday. I don't want to hate on it too much because Diablo Cody posts on the same forum I do where we make fun of For Better or Worse. I will overlook clunky dialogue from anyone who hates Anthony Caine.

OMG yr on a FOOB-hater forum! Mad respect. (I'm not but the 'stache is still le crepe even post-shave.)

By hater I mean "one whose nostalgia and love of the once-quality Canuck comic is kind of being curdled & spoiled by the boring adult lives of Michael & especially Liz'a suitors," as well you know.

There is nothing Lynn Johnston could do to make that guy attractive physically or otherwise.

xp

What about he gets hit by a van and dies ala Brad Pitt in "Meet Joe Black"?

Even then...

Is Mr. Comics Curmudgeon still the premiere FOOB hater location?

It has been pretty intermittent, but I don't read the comments bcz they are a world of intimidation to me.

Abbott otm.

I get so confused by that strip on rare occasions when I look at it nowadays. With the exception of the original parents, I get confused as to who is family and who is not (e.g., there was a strip I saw around Xmas where I couldn't tell if the characters were siblings or significant others!) and I'm getting mixed-up with the whole generational thing in general.

That being said, despite any haters, I have mad respect for her for penning a strip for so long that actually tries to show character's life trajectories instead of freezing them in time...plus I am probably weird brand of Canadian-phile or something...

I just stopped paying any attention to the damn thing when Michael met...um...what's her name again. The one he got married to. (I vaguely remember that she had some crabby mom who wanted a snooty wedding, and I concluded that in retrospect it was probably all downhill when Farley died.)

"one whose nostalgia and love of the once-quality Canuck comic is kind of being curdled & spoiled by the boring adult lives of Michael & especially Liz'a suitors,"

Wow, this really nails it. Dell's right re: life trajectories but I tend to think Doonesbury did it better in the end, surely, even allowing for the relative glibness in comparison. In fact that might be the whole point! (Not to mention the sheer amusement in how Trudeau basically said 'Fuck it' with the title character and rebooted him fully in Seattle from New York in the blink of an eye.)

I concluded that in retrospect it was probably all downhill when Farley died

holy loooool

Seriously, I don't think I cared about anything after that! Forget the people, just give me a 'Farley chases rabbits in heaven and gets a goofy look on his face' strip!

xpost

hmmm, yeah. I have never followed Doonesbury, so I can't comment on that, though, grand "fuck it" gestures in general by popular artists are usually pretty worthwhile on some level, I find, so, cool.

Also, I am not putting down the static time-frames of other comics; at best that is brilliant in its own (ironically, I guess it could be said) timeworn tradition, but, that was one of the things that I always appreciated about FBoW, esp. considering that it was not a political or soap-opera-ish strip. Well, okay, it was soap-opera-ish, but not in the sense that Apartment 3-G or Mary Worth were/are...

Well in that respect one of its forebears might be something like Gasoline Alley, which similarly charted life-courses and did so in a vein that (from what I know of it) is neither political as such nor soap-opera like. Isn't it still going?

Actually I think it is weird that the reincarnation of Gasoline Alley is static w/its characters' ages whereas the original really stood alone for its aging/developing characters.

xposts

N., I'm sure you realize this, but that's heading dangerously into Bil Keane territory. "Who puked on the coffee table?" (cue to impish-looking ghost of Barfy)

hahaha xpost

There is a redrawn Gasoline Alley and while it is awesomely bonkers, it is set in contemporary times and is as static as "Dennis the Menace"

I have never actually seen Barfy barf.

Hahaha. (Although now I'm envisioning a huge evil ghost of Farley coming back and wreaking havoc and killing people for some reason.)

xposts
Intersting. I know jackall about Gasoline Alley, other than the fact that it was an "important" comic...

It could only be an improvement. xp

The Hound of the Pattersons

"They were the footsteps of a gigantic MUTT!"

Barfy vs Farley, played out among Okefenokee Swamp.

Gotta be better than that late eighties Pogo revive.

(Although that thing did have one moment of glory -- a spot on parody of Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns in a Sunday strip around when the first Burton Batman surfaced. But that's it.)

So, it's something like old bands reforming in desperate bids to relive glory days, or...ILX thread revives. Time making a mockery of us all, etc.

gasoline alley was an amazing strip in its day. check out the huge beautiful sunday pages that drawn & quarterly reprinted a few years ago - a major influence on chris ware.

FBOW (or is it FBOFW?) has been as boring as dirt for as long as i've been reading it. "hi and lois" has more human interest.

OUCH!

JUNO Thread -> FOOB Thread? Classic.

FOOB has some things going for it tho. Like at least they don't do golf jokes.

Holy shit, For Better or for Worse is still running?

Yes, and the big storyline as of late involves Michael divorcing some woman/tart who tried to bust her way into the CFL.

Wait, what?

I brunched in the same restaurant with Lynn Johnston on the eve of Christmas Eve this past year. I tried not to stare.

For Better Or For Worse - C/D?

what the hell happened to this thread?! BOXCAR!

Juno soundtrack out next week.

In terms both of genuine quality and ridiculous soapopera lolz FBOFW <<<< Funky Winkerbean

It's like comparing father to son to holy ghost, really. I haven't read every single back copy of FW: was it always so fucking bleak?

I can't keep track of who's who in Funky now that they're all ten years older.

Funky looks like he's about 60 now, raising another man's kid, and I don't know if he even lives in Ohio anymore. Shit's fucked

I was gonna say I thought Funky was all marching band jokes and light hearted fun until they jumped ten years into the future for the first time but then I remembered the teenage pregnancy storyline was back then...nothing compared to the cancer/alcoholism/divorce/cancer/helicopter shootdown/land mine/cancer/car bomb/hostage situation/death clusterfuck of the past few years tho

come back, Juno, all is forgiven.

btw, Alex in SF; what about Dem Congress passing Bush's "abstinence only" educ funding with nary a peep?

i don't know how i feel abt this movie

playing on the radio right now is finland metal band norther's version of 'the final countdown'. maybe i will let that stand in for my opinions right now.

I'm seeing this tonight. I haven't read any posts (in case of spoilers, y'know), but when I do tonight, I hope they're all thought-provoking and shit.

i was glad to see a movie about a teenage girl who is interested in things and has a personality w/o being old guy jerkoff fantasy

Except she is, kind of.

um, except that this movie was written by a woman.

Just got back from watching this. Totally loved it, so I guess I'm some corny indie rock douchebag.

I don't think there's anything wrong with liking the film, polyphonic. And certainly, liking it doesn't make you as much as an indie rock whatever as liking Once. I just think there are some glaring problems with it (political - and aesthetic problems that come forth from the political problems).

Don't worry, I always think I'm a corny indie rock douchebag.

Ok... well: I don't think liking Juno makes anyone into a corny indie rock douchebag. Like I said above: It's a VERY likable film.

(Though it could be that corny indie rock douchebags *will* like it.)

i really don't think this movie was "pro-life."

um, except that this movie was written by a woman.

so what. Juno is still definitely a fantasy figure, whatever else she is.

i mean juno considers having an abortion, and moreover her stepmom suggests she get one! it's clearly accepted as a reasonable choice in the film.

and yes the abortion clinic is portrayed cartoonishly but for fuck's sake this is a movie where a character fills another character's mailbox with tic-tacs!

this wasn't my favorite movie but i really feel like half the criticisms of it i've been hearing are pretty lazy and/or kneejerk.

You know, I was thinking, it would cost like $70-100 to fill someone's mailbox w/Tic-Tacs! Those things are not cheap. Maybe she stole some, but preggers teen dressed all...like that...would be pretty conspicuous.

and after 9 kinda shitty (but kinda punkrock) months

Way to put pregnancy into poetry.

J.D. OTM

i liked this movie.

i don't think it pushed the cleverness all that hard after the first 10 minutes or so, honestly. i like the way the movie reversed its tone toward the jennifer garner and jason bateman characters.

MARK
Can you tell if it’s a boy or a
girl?

JUNO
The doctor can tell, but I decided
not to know. I want it to be a big
surprise.

MARK
Well, it can really only go two ways.

JUNO
That’s what you think. I drink tons
of booze so you might get one of
those scary neuter-babies that’s
born without junk.

MARK
Junk?

JUNO
You know... it’s parts...

MARK
I know what junk is.

JUNO
(teasing)
Yeah?

MARK
We definitely want it to have junk.

JUNO
Well don’t worry about it. My
stepmom is forcing me to eat really
healthy. She won’t even let me
stand in front of the microwave or
eat red M&Ms. Hope you’re ready.

Mark chuckles.

(it's... pretty clever)

she sounds like a real spitfire

Having some real up-is-down moments on ILX here lately.

I think it all started when I loathed Redacted.

What confused me: why go to so much trouble to make Juno an Iggy and Patti - lovin' old-school proto-punk, and then have the soundtrack be all twee? Would such a person really be covering the Moldy Peaches on the acoustic guitar? I don't understand why they didn't make the _character_ a cornie indie type to match the movie.

Also: no Beat Happening on the soundtrack seemed a very strange omission.

http://data.tumblr.com/qSbsdLeKs45rve2nmd006oQO_500.jpg

I don't understand why they didn't make the _character_ a cornie indie type to match the movie.

Because the audience Juno is aiming for wouldn't get teary-eyed at Iggy Pop.

Because the audience Juno is aiming for wouldn't get teary-eyed at Iggy Pop.

Well, that's the audience they got, anyway.

To be fair, Michael Cera's character did seem to be the type of corny indie dude who would be all about twee Moldy Peaches covers, so maybe Juno was just humoring him at the end of the movie.

He had space wallpaper, which pretty much makes anyone want to bone.

Srsly of all the things that bother me about that movie, it is that she probably does not have the funds to buy him all those tic-tacs!

Ha, that occurred to me, too, Abbott.

This is like how my man hates The Little Prince because it didn't explain how the asteroid had a sustainable atmosphere.

why go to so much trouble to make Juno an Iggy and Patti - lovin' old-school proto-punk, and then have the soundtrack be all twee?

I wondered this too. But I guess the film doesn't need to share the character's taste?

The film pretty much is a 'hipped-up' afterschool special or Lifetime movie but the charm, as it is, lies in the hipping up, in little things like the Sonic Youth conversations. (I thought it was a pleasant movie, not a great one.)

It might have been more interesting, actually, to find old garage rock and punk/NYC songs that would have suited the film's mood. Some of Patti's or Lou Reed's ballads? "Days?" They did use "All the Young Dudes." (I loved that Juno thought she was introducing Mark to an interesting choice by playing an FM rock staple like that.)

http://z.about.com/d/tvcomedies/1/0/Y/-/-/-/george_michael_bluth.jpg

the horror. the horror...

(I don't necessarily find it that hard to believe that a teenager into Patti Smith and the Stooges could also love acoustic twee songs when it comes to present-day music. It would be easy to learn to play at any rate. "I'm Stickin' With You" fit right in.)

JK Simmons was the best thing about this film (which wasn't bad, moments of extreme annoyingness aside).

deRogatis sez

god, do i even want to read that?

Why was that 14 year old into the Melvins? Who even talks about the Melvins anymore who isn't like ... 36? Was that intentional or something?

DeRo's article starts out fine but descends into incoherence.

But I thought it was Mark who was the Melvins fan, not Juno.

Juno does seem impressed with the fact that his band opened for the Melvins, which suggests she has some familiarity with and respect for them. Which is maybe a little weird to like the Melvins but never have heard Sonic Youth?

Oh, well, she was aware of the Melvins' name and esteem, which isn't what I understand "into the Melvins" to mean. I think it's pretty normal for a teenager to know the names and have a vague idea of the importance of old bands that people namedrop, and then sometimes be subsequently disappointed when he or she actually hears them.

(And she does argue that 1977 was a better year for rock than the early-90s year that Mark names.)

why go to so much trouble to make Juno an Iggy and Patti - lovin' old-school proto-punk, and then have the soundtrack be all twee

xgau LOVES kimya dawson!

btw, i do not plan on ever seeing this movie

And for that matter, given that the Stooges and Patti Smith are her favorites, and she shows no interest in UK punk at all, why does she think 1977 is the best year of rock? Who are you Juno?????

A teenager with inconsistent tastes.

yeah, i could write that off as the kind of pleasant confusion that we all have when we're teenagers (when i was 14 i think i lumped in new order and ministry as "new wave.")

Yeah, like she heard somewhere that '77 was the cool year to say you're into.

than the early-90s year that Mark names

1993, man!
this made me laugh a lot

i guess i'm stuck halfway btwn liking this and not liking it b/c i did cringe at some stuff in the not-good cringing way

<i>i guess i'm stuck halfway btwn liking this and not liking it b/c i did cringe at some stuff in the not-good cringing way</i>

That's kind of how I feel.

i liked this. I didn't love it. it is overly clever for the first bit yes. it did not strike me as 'pro-life' in any sense; it shows a bit of wonderment at life, but if you have had a kid, that's just how things are. I hate Moldy Peaches but i do like that song they did over the end, I completely forgot about that being the one moldy peaches song I really like.

I did find the ending with the duet to be cloying to the point where I couldn't look at the screen anymore.

That deRogatis article is sublimely retarded. Taking down Juno because real teenagers aren't like that is sort of like taking down Sesame Street for having Big Bird as a pivotal cast member.

Dude I was complaining about that when I was five! (Not really but teh Viceroy was really complaining about the astronomical inconsistiencies of Le Petit Prince as a lad, I note again.)

Juno & adoptive father discuss the UK Top 50 of 1982. "I'm going with Depeche Mode of course ;-)"

Since I complained above, let me just say that I did actually like this movie! But I would have liked it more if I hadn't gone in expecting the movie of the year.

i hope you've learned your lesson about that then

I should have learned that lesson after I went "Bourne Ultimatum" believing that it was, as promised, a "taut, intelligent thriller."

And another thing:

portrayal of troubled "self-centered formerly-hip-in-the-music-biz boy yuppie / uptight and ultra-suburban but secretly vulnerable girl yuppie couple" in Knocked Up >>>>>>>>>>>
portrayal of analogous couple in Juno.

Taking down Juno because real teenagers aren't like that is sort of like taking down Sesame Street for having Big Bird as a pivotal cast member.

No, it's not. Talking birds in a kid's show that makes no pretense of being realistic =/= unrealistic, unnatural dialogue/behavior in a film being praised for its honesty and realism.

Jesus Christ, do I hate DeRo. The man is an absolute idiot.

As it's been said, teenagers don't exactly talk like they did in "My So Called Life," either.

I should have learned that lesson after I went "Bourne Ultimatum" believing that it was, as promised, a "taut, intelligent thriller."

i don't know whether this is an intentional or unintentional zing

I was a bit apprehensive at the criticism of this because A:, it seemed like all the criticisms of the movie seemed to echo each other, like they all came from the same list at whyjunosucks.com or something. And B: I took the recent backlash to be a contrarian reaction towards an obviously strong film. But I saw this last night and man did it suck.

No, it's not. Talking birds in a kid's show that makes no pretense of being realistic =/= unrealistic, unnatural dialogue/behavior in a film being praised for its honesty and realism.

Juno very obviously does not, and was not intended to take place in "the real world" and any critic who thinks it does needs to find a new fucking line of work.

Way to ruin a perfectly cute and often very funny movie (with a quality script & nice performances). So, what's the bar here for a teenage dramedy?

I think I thought about maybe laughing at the Diana Ross line but then wasn't truly feeling it.

Man, this was a bad movie. And not even in a Teen Witch or John Tucker Must Die bad/entertaining way. Every line for Juno seemed to be written for Peewee Herman. You could say all of her lines in his voice and it would have all fit.

I don't get the Gilmore Girls comparison at all. Except that they are female and not absurdly boring or tragic acting.

the "Honest to blog" line may have knocked off either the "Is it raining, I hadn't noticed." or the "Daaaad" line from Godfather 3 as the worst line in movie history.

Too bad she wasn't watching Gwar videos with Jason Bateman.

if they were going to caricature a womynist abortion clinic, they could have at least put dozens of rabid and hateful protesters outside instead of one lol cute asian girl.

This was pretty shite. If Juno's quips had been halved, it would've been tolerable.

this has just begun heavy promotion in the UK.

i don't think i've ever encoutered a film whose hype was based so much on its writer's looks.

Er, what?

Soundtrack was #3 US album last week, outselling a whole lotta howling divas and soulless overproduced pop crap.

2008: THE YEAR ANTI-FOLK BROKE

Best picture, best actress, best screenplay, best picture...

Are you fucking KIDDING me?!

(best director in there as well, I meant)

It's only the best director nomination that really chides me.

The only nomination it should have received was J.Garner and/or maybe Bateman for supporting roles.

I had resigned myself to expecting the Best Original Screenplay nomination, but figured it wouldn't go beyond a token "well you were cute, here's a little nomination for your efforts" nod, a'la Squid & the Whale/Ghost World/You Can Count on Me (not that this piece of trash comes CLOSE to any of those movies).

I already hated this movie with all my soul, but this just takes it to the next level.

You don't pay attention to Oscar buzz then. Not saying you should: there are probably better things to waste time with. But Eric's right: Jason Reitman is the only surprise nominee here.

i'm not surprised at oscars noms - i mean remember the whole little miss sunshine thing? this movie is better than that one at least tho i'm still undecided on my mixed feelings

You don't pay attention to Oscar buzz then

No Oscar buzz on "Juno" in the UK - the film's not even out here yet (I saw it over the holidays in the States).

There are websites.

A local mag here has a diaslogue between two critics on what the film means re "the commodification of indie."

I would be interested in reading that. It's one of my favorite topics of the last few years.

essentially, this movie is much better than Little Miss Sunshine, which I hated, but so, so, so much worse than Superbad

There are websites.
-- jaymc

there are probably better things to waste time with.
-- jaymc

Like I said.

A local mag here has a diaslogue between two critics on what the film means re "the commodification of indie."

I hope to God this dialogue was published no later than 1995.

http://thelmagazine.com/6/2/musicology/feature1.cfm?ctype=2

See what yr missin, bro?

As far as I’m concerned, and I think this might be an unpopular opinion, I’ve always taken the stance that “indie” is, in fact, an aesthetic sensibility. And what’s so striking about Juno is that they straight-up fucking mangled that shit in the film, with all the retardo dialogue, yet they managed to nail it on the soundtrack.

Indie's been commodified for a long time, but it's really only been in the last few years that you have things like Sub Pop albums debuting in the top 5 on Billboard.

There is no indie, never has been.

We are all boutique labels now.

Indie's been commodified for a long time, but it's really only been in the last few years that you have things like Sub Pop albums debuting in the top 5 on Billboard.

This may have less to do with an increase in sales of SubPop albums than with an overal decrease in sales of everything.

decrease in sales of everything except subpop records? check yr math

i mean, i know what you mean, but still

http://thelmagazine.com/6/2/musicology/feature1.cfm?ctype=2

lolololol

I’m afraid the backlash against things like Juno or the fucking Decemberists is causing people to abandon the ideals we’ve all grown up with, possibly just for the sake of being contrarians.

rofl

Yeah I chuckled at that line too.

it's not the 'commodification of indie' that bothers me, and wtf does that even mean anyway, i am so tired of this kind of talk, i mean jesus everything's commodified, we live in a state of constant exchange and skewed value assignments boohoohoo everything's for sale even yr childhood ohno.

how precious is this 'indie aesthetic' and, wait, is it really all that groundbreaking anyway? are they really among your favourite personal-world-shattering movies, these movies? yeah, say anything affected me bigtime when i was 18 but like die hard has arguably made a bigger impact on me. tell me your story whatever story it is, but tell me it to me with conviction and integrity and sure certainly homage to what's come before but give me something new to love and be inspired by and do new things because of.

maybe what i'm getting at is that there are a thousandx20 novels just like this, quiet little stories written by people with moderate but unexciting talent. some of them sell big, some don't, some are praised and declared 'beautifully written' and some are ignored. i think the word we really want here isn't 'commodification' - too common, too abstract, there's a reason why only 18-21 yr olds get excited by adbusters - but a word that means 'insular' and 'accepting' and 'docile' and ultimately 'boring.'

yes, i love love too and i love familiar comforts but i'm upset by insularity and self-imploding little worlds, i guess, these days. these stories are the reason i can't read past page 3 of most novels these days and why i feel the way i do abt this movie - but i've stopped feeling guilty about that because obviously what i'm looking for is a promise for something more. i'm glad you wrote a book, i'm glad you made a movie, but still it hurts me and it's forgettable. maybe because i want everything to be a little part of some kind of revolution.

i'm being a bit harsh. but a movie that had the bones or the chops or whatever to be insightful and thought-provoking but turned out to be mediocre quirky entertainment is somehow more disappointing to me than all the pointless crappy movies i'll never see this year. and while this movie is still not as sad/disheartening/depressing as idiocracy, it gets to me in a similar way. and i guess it's allegorical. all the opportunities to do something great and if not revolutionary at least evolutionary, but instead it takes the easy way out. these happy endings are the saddest/most frustrating freakin thing.

and also geez the most saleable of the new and the different have always been popularized, how is this surprising - i even think it's a good thing in some ways b/c it can have positive consequences, esp if you're not constantly on the lookout for the new and different. i mean, not all big-budget/big-studio movies (music, art, etc) are without depth and insight, and not all underground films (music, art, etc) are brilliant and shocking the world into change.

i just want to be shown the world in different/surprising ways

that's all!

and also geez the most saleable of the new and the different have always been popularized

"always" is a long time. Was Lenny Bruce 'saleable' in 1961? Velvets in '68?

but a movie that had the bones or the chops or whatever to be insightful and thought-provoking but turned out to be mediocre quirky entertainment is somehow more disappointing to me than all the pointless crappy movies i'll never see this year.

Really? Juno had the chops to be insightful and thought-provoking? It was fluff. I thought it was very well-done fluff, and I'll defend it to the end on that level, but I think you're being pretty unfair to the film if you were looking for more. That's why its Oscar noms in categories other than screenplay are so bizarre, but of course I'd have said the same thing about Little Miss Sunshine last year.

why the hell would i not look for more in anything? i have become unfair like that

always is a long time

the only thing to do is not pay attention to it

first half - flat and unreliable (the scene where juno tells her parents bout her pregnancy and their reaction for example)
2nd half - great! (juno's learning the balanced way of looking at life)

I just saw this, I thought it was okay, but not mind-blowing. I agree with most of the people that the oversaturation with twee indie songs was very annoying. And there was a bit too much of "quirky" dialogue, if it was used more sparingly it would've flowed better, now it felt at times like the scriptwriter was just trying to draw attention to her impressive dialogue-writing skills, which was a bit irritating. Juno felt like like a teen movie not aimed at teens rather adults who wished they would've been as witty as Juno as kids. I agree with Jaymc's initial comment that it was sort of fantasy-fulfillment film, but the problem was that because of this the teen bits worked on a rather superficial level, and unlike Ghost World (Juno's closest relative, I think) didn't have that much to say about actual teenage experiences. I guess it's not surprising then that the adult characters were actually the most interesting and rounded ones, because they weren't about fantasy. I would've loved to see more of Juno's dad especially, and like people have noted, the dynamic between the adoptive couple, and the sympathy-reversal between them, was well done too.

About the adoption thing: I don't think the movie was either pro-life or pro-choice. Like most other Hollwyood films these days Juno sorta side-stepped the whole issue, I guess because movie-makers don't want to anger any possible viewers. In these sort of films abortion is usually presented as an option, so they wouldn't appear conservative and piss off the liberals, but then female character never has it anyway. They always go to the adoption clinic, but then run away at the last moment! I can't remember when I last saw someone actually have an abortion in an Hollywood movie, even movies where teens get pregnant it never seems to happen. I think it's kinda weak.

it was funny how the step mother tried to analyze the future-might-be-problems of the adoption choice to that nurse, as if the writers were trying to defends their choice to the audience,saying:hey,this isnt an easy solution as you might think.that was superfluous

That was weird scene; I think the movie-makers wanted the audience to side with the step-mom, but she came off as totally obnoxious, where as the nurse was just making sense.

daer tuomas,

it is not 'weak' to choose birth/adoption endings over abortion endings in teen movies, because teen abortions are pretty huge bummers no matter how you look at them.

here's a happy little comedy that ends with a depressed teen straddling the toilet and crying into a wad of toilet paper

or a slice-of-life drama in which a girl chooses college over motherhood and stoically takes a pill before going out drinking with her friends

the end half of the movie is way better,cause the writers don't try to force the story on you and making it unreliable.as a matter of fact the story on the first half reminded me of yet another episode of yet another american tv series,except from the strong "indie" film.

the second half i mean

btw,kill me but i love kimya dawson.
how can't you as a beat happening fan?!

"It was interesting how we sided with the male yuppie at first and the woman seemed obsessive and anal until it switches and we come to see that she really wants this kid and the guy is a selfish prick.
"

yeah, that was the most powerfull event of the movie.
the relationship between Juno and the will be stepfather are interesting and are the main reason the 2nd half comes as great as it does.
both of them change, for the good and for the bad, from the unspoken attraction that they share,juno realize that nothing's perfect, and that what might seem to be a good thing on first impression doesnt always comes off so good when you look deeper inside.
on a way, maybe without being aware of it,she tested the ex-hipster guy, and he failed the test.
than,and after the father "fixer" words about true love, she can go back to the tic-tac kid and stick to what shes as long as it's good, knowing it may not last.those were great script moments imo.
i mean,growing up is alot about losing your ideals,in a good way.

I told ya that Jennifer Garner's terrific.

i didnt like her.
Cera was great though

which makes no sense! You don't believe her situation if she's not convincing.

i just think her character could be better casted.
i can see the point of the writers, thats enough to understand.

I don't really understand what this movie has in common w/Ghost World other than sassy lil lassy as central figure

And others have complained that the Moldy Peaches and Kimya Dawson are has-beens.

Pretty sure they're 'never-weres.'

i think the word we really want here isn't 'commodification' - too common, too abstract, there's a reason why only 18-21 yr olds get excited by adbusters - but a word that means 'insular' and 'accepting' and 'docile' and ultimately 'boring.'

Homogenized?

daer tuomas,

it is not 'weak' to choose birth/adoption endings over abortion endings in teen movies, because teen abortions are pretty huge bummers no matter how you look at them.

Er, what? Do you really think keeping the baby or having it and then giving it adopted is always a better choice? If you do, why? Because I know couple of girls who've had an abortion at an early age, and let me tell you, it was much less of a bummer than the alternatives would've been.

To make it clear, I'm not just criticizing Juno (obviously if she'd had an abortion it would've been a totally different movie) but the trend in American movies that abortion is simply something that never happens, even though it does in real life. I can't help but think this is because American movie-makers don't want to upset any potential section of the audience.

'insular' and 'accepting' and 'docile' and ultimately 'boring

I've been getting a lot of mileage out of "insipid"

although for the purposes of this thread "jejune" could perhaps provide a greater lol

Do you really think keeping the baby or having it and then giving it adopted is always a better choice

The problem with your sentence is "always."

Well, that's what Remy seemed to be implying. I'm sorry if I got that wrong.

I saw a trailer for this, and now wild horses could not drag me to the film, as it seems to consist of loads of teenagers with annoying voices saying "Like, yeah" to each other.

Then the trailer is quite misleading.

it is not 'weak' to choose birth/adoption endings over abortion endings in teen movies because teen abortions are pretty huge bummers no matter how you look at them.

i am not making any general statements about abortion at all. although i do think that adoption is generally favorable.

What do you mean by that sentence? That abortion is a bigger bummer for teens than for adults? That birth/adoption is better than abortion for teens?

(x-post)

I am saying that very few people want to go see a quirky teen comedy about abortion, because it is about the termination of a zygote/fetus/baby (depending on your views) and that is some seriously dark and unfun movie territory.

I also do not want to see teen movies about vasectomies, the consequences of gang rape, or miscarriage, but that does not mean I don't believe they don't exist or are unimportant.

IN SHORT, IT IS NEITHER ENTERTAINING NOR DRAMATICALLY FULFILLING TO WATCH SOMEBODY GET AN ABORTION

remy stfu

ethan, go be a worthless piece of shit on a thread that wants you

when people get pregnant without wanting to be a lot of them have abortions, and it's dishonest to keep making movies about unplanned pregnancies without acknowledging this

remy have you seen 4 months 3 weeks and 2 days?

yeah, i really enjoyed it

notable films that were not teen comedies, #1

hahahhaa

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0209877/

Title:
Abortion! (1967)

Plot Outline:
Women get infected or die from abortions.

First of all, Juno isn't a "quirky teen comedy" - it's often quite serious, and I think the intended audience is not teenagers. Secondly, even if it was, I think saying that certain issues shouldn't been dealt in teen movies is a very weird attitude. Do you think teen's should just have fun and never think of real world issues, many of which might affect themselves?

it is a bad movie with pretentious Important Social issues shoehorned between ridiculous bits of High Quirk dialogue about Sonic Youth, and I think that suggesting it would be a better movie if the kid had a late term abortion makes absolutely no sense at all, and is a kind of weird take on what is ultimately neither a good nor important film.

"more movies about unexpected/unwanted pregancies should end in abortion" seems like such a creepy thing to say.

I didn't say that Juno should've been changed, or that it would've been a better movie, to me Juno was just one example of a trend in Hollywood films. I just was commenting on your post where you said teen movies in general should preferably not deal with abortion.

"more movies about unexpected/unwanted pregancies should end in abortion" seems like such a creepy thing to say.

Why is it creepy? Anyway, I wasn't saying that all of them should end with abortion, but maybe at least some of them, which doesn't seem to be the case today in Hollywood.

i heard jamie lynn is going to give up her baby

i didn't say that teen movies shouldn't deal with abortion.

i said that movies about abortion were depressing and dark, and largely unfulfilling, and not really a big draw to the teenage audience

lol max

and all tuomas said was that he was disappointed that almost all movies about pregnancy would rather pander to the abortion-is-murder crowd instead of showing what actually happens

you load an argument with words like 'pander' and it's hard to respond, dude.

'pander to the abortion-is-murder crowd' isn't what most movies that end with birth do at all.

in dramatic terms, it is a lot harder to achieve dramatic fulfillment or a big payoff using abortion for the final scene when adoption or birth has the same story consequences.

i didn't say that teen movies shouldn't deal with abortion. i said that movies about abortion were depressing and dark, and largely unfulfilling, and not really a big draw to the teenage audience.

Okay, fair enough. But I don't think movies where an abortion happens (they don't need to be just about abortion, just like Juno isn't just about teen pregnancy) necessarily need to be depressing and dark, they could just depict abortion as something that some people have to choose - a serious matter, no doubt, but not as something that is awfully dark and traumatic. To my knowledge that isn't the case with most people who have one.

This is a great movie I think. It reminded me of another favorite movie of mine Garden State. The main characters of both movies are so real and so funny. Such a powerful acting.

Get the fuck off.

soundtrack to #2!

it definitely makes me want to take a shit

lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFff-FekFWU

at least kimya didnt get an oscar nom

because there weren't any songs eligible.

"at least," so we get to hear 3 fucking Enchanted songs. c'MON, show cancellation!

The Rhino soundtrack to "Juno" becomes the label's first No. 1 album on The Billboard 200, moving up 2-1 with a 13% increase to 65,000 copies in the United States, according to Nielsen SoundScan. It's the first film soundtrack to top the chart since last year's "Dreamgirls" and the first from an Academy Award best picture nominee since "Titanic" reached the summit on Jan. 24, 1998.

thanks, buyers!

someone buy Eric H. Jeffrey Lewis's 12 Crass Songs, lol

The dialogue in this film is repulsive. It's like Kevin Smith on a bad day.

re: that The View clip: I like her look, but it's a real shame about the music.

I like Whoopi's look, too. Didn't know she made music, though.

I'm sure Timbaland or someone will gussy up the next Kimya album to Eric's liking.

ditch Cera and the Moldy Peaches and this would have been really good

Never ditch Cera.

he's been the worst character/actor in both movies I've seen him in (Superbad, this)

That is opposite to the opinion I hold like dogs are the opposite of cats and latinos are the opposite of asians

RONG and RONG xp

wtf Moldy Peaches on The View and Vampire Weekend at #17 on Billboard!

http://dave.zfx.com/Scanner/nav5.gif

This Barry Louis Polisar song from the soundtrack is tight.

http://www.gamesfromwithin.com/images/29_tdd_2/alice_looking_glass_2.jpg

http://www.mysteryadventuretheatre.com/pictures/bizarrocode.jpg

http://nyu.facebook.com/group.php?gid=8304738922

where was the Oscar love for pregnant teen Ricci in The Opposite of Sex?

the movie had too many fags.

Bigot.

I think I hate "Is this the Juno thread? I think it is!" more than any line of dialogue I've heard from the movie.

When it comes to movies where a teenage girl accidentally gets pregnant and decides to have the baby, I thought this was better than Juno all around.

xp: but Juno's dad was a butt-raping white supremacist on Oz! Surely that counts.

Without viewing his profile or even really his comment I feel like Steve Baughman (New School) is probably worse than hypothetical viewing of 24 hour Juno marathon on TBS to celebrate Jane Pratt's birthday or something

New School not exactly known for the caliber of students.

Blech:

New details are emerging about ABC Family's new Juno-esque drama from 7th Heaven creator Brenda Hampton. And by "new details," I mean the following (rather detailed) synopsis that is making its way to Hollywood casting directors as we speak:

"Fifteen-year-old Amy Nicholson, pregnant after having one uncomfortable sexual encounter with the school's Don Juan, Ricky, tries to figure out a way to deal with her dilemma, as all around her peers face the reality of their own sexual (or non-sexual) choices. Unable to face her loving but "nice" middle class parents, Amy confides in her best friends, Lauren and Madison, who are supportive but not too helpful, and struggles to deal with her feelings for Ricky at the same time she's being wooed by the sweet and possibly smitten Ben."

So, pretty much, if 7th Heaven got plastered, had a one-night stand with Juno, and gave birth nine months later, this is what their baby would look like.

too bad it didn't have an abortion [ / autojoke ]

i want to punch michael cera so hard in the face that on impact theres an unberable flash of light and his entire body dissolves into vapor and floats up into the sky.

You say that about everyone.

punch him in the weiner

Why does no character in this movie have a mobile phone?

Jess Harvell's Idolator post managed to cram in pretty much all my problems with this movie: http://idolator.com/352951/guylinered-mall-emos-meet-juno-writer-diablo-cody-and-our-brains-explode-from-the-self+satisfaction

Why does no character in this movie have a mobile phone?

It's a utopian fantasy? Teenagers w/out phones, come, Paradise...

I saw the clip on the BAFTAs last night where Juno, presumably born abound 1991, makes her Soupy Sales reference. FUCK THIS MOVIE.

it's kind of reassuring to know that I'm not indie enough to actually get upset about shit like this movie or Vampire Weekend or whatever.

I saw the clip on the BAFTAs last night where Juno, presumably born abound 1991, makes her Soupy Sales reference. FUCK THIS MOVIE.

Maybe she listens to Little Steven on the radio? He's always talking about Soupy.

does he ever play "The Mouse"?

http://www.thewho.info/wfc/images/Mouse-SM.jpg

I think he has!

When did Michael Cera turn into Beck?

I thought Jennifer Garner was exceptional during Juno and totally redeemed the whole movie. She really managed to play being hurt in a very muted way while projecting that slightly insincere confidence of someone who is hurt but trying to impress. Did she receive any nominations for anything? Guess no-one else noticed. Was it just me?

Also… Michael Cera is quickly turning into the Will Ferrell of awkward and sincere teenagers. Has he ever played it different? I mean, I love George Michael as much as the next guy but not for every role.

xp: "very muted" and awards generally not a match.

I thought Jennifer Garner was exceptional during Juno and totally redeemed the whole movie. She really managed to play being hurt in a very muted way while projecting that slightly insincere confidence of someone who is hurt but trying to impress. Did she receive any nominations for anything? Guess no-one else noticed. Was it just me?

Award shows usually omit subtler acting. I said upthread that Garner (and Cera, to a lesser extent) was the best thing in it.

fucking hell this was atrocious.

Hey, now we're on a roll NRQ.

i'm quite the contrarianista, homeskillet.

Like I said previously, all the adults in this film were better characters than the kids, because they didn't work as vehicles for the writer's witticisms and fantasy fullfilment. I would've preferred if the movie had been told from the point of view of the adoptive couple, because their story felt more poignant and interesting than Juno's.

fucking hell this was atrocious.

-- That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 14 February 2008 23:32 (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

ha!

the audience was eating it up -- i think i will never use slang or make pop-cultural references in coversation ever again now. the 'sonic youth will change your life' scene was one of the worst things in any film ever; obviously the soundtrack in general was blogawful (see what i did?).

i liked rushmore when it came out.

The SY stuff nearly made me dislike Sonic Youth.

On the bright-side, this film is going to be unwatchably dated to everyone, even the people that like it now, within 18 months.

You also wanted Juno to get an abortion, Tuomas.

No I didn't.

Oh maybe that was the woman who got knocked up in Knocked Up, then.

To make it clear, I'm not just criticizing Juno (obviously if she'd had an abortion it would've been a totally different movie) but the trend in American movies that abortion is simply something that never happens, even though it does in real life. I can't help but think this is because American movie-makers don't want to upset any potential section of the audience.

-- Tuomas, 28. tammikuuta 2008 9:40 (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Link

Oh, my mistake. You just wanted American audiences to be different than they are.

btw, i am teasing et al

So yeah, I wasn't criticizing Juno as an individual film, just pointing out a trend. As for Knocked Up, I found it weird that the female protagonist, who didn't seem very conservative, never even considered abortion as an option.

(xx-post)

She didn't have an abortion because she didn't want Judith Light coming in and turning her into a Lifetime movie.

or the other blonde woman sitcom mom, rather

Knocked Up was self-serving ass. Juno was wonderful. The end.

czn is right that garner is, agains the odds, sort of the best thing in it. though i am a sucker for women characters telling fuckwitted perma-teen dudes to man up, for some reason.

cera can't do another movie in this persona.

xpost

we've done this tuomas, but the girl in 'knocked up' does consider it. she doesn't have a badly dramatized scene where she goes to a clinic and decides against even seeing a doctor on the grounds that uhhhh it smells like a dentist and a minor character from a wes anderson film is picketing the place.

alba that's BS. this film was ersatz rubbish.

we've done this tuomas, but the girl in 'knocked up' does consider it.

Er, no she doesn't. It's her mom who broughts up the option, and she's like "no". Plus the mom isn't depicted very positively in that scene.

NRQ, I am seriously with you 100 percent on this.

broughts = brings

that's one bring that can't be unbroughten, homeskillet

tuomas, she considers it. that doesn't mean there's a scene where she "considers it."

there kind of is in the deleted scenes tho. i know irl non-christian people who just would not have an abortion if they were in her position, though, if you can handle that idea.

the narrative was a 5/10 but there were so many things in this film that were disgusting or lazy (dialogue, art design, music, ellen page) that it has to be one of the least enjoyable things I've seen at the cinema in years.

i think the *idea* was that beneath her brittle, amazingly annoying exterior, there was hiding an emotionally immature girl in juno. they spectacularly failed to get this idea over by making it a metronomic one-liner-fest with a couple of 'big scenes' thrown for the pros to get them to work below their quote.