'Goodfellas' the 'Citizen Kane' of the UK

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http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/story/358769p-305717c.html

I remember enjoying the film, but I doubt it would make my top #100... not intentionally omitting it, but I just wouldn't have thought of it.

If you Brits think that's good, we'll send over some others you might REALLY like.

― andy --, Tuesday, 25 October 2005 15:21 (twenty years ago)

Oh wait, it's 'FIGHT CLUB', then Citizen Kane. Right.

― andy --, Tuesday, 25 October 2005 15:22 (twenty years ago)

Total Film is a silly magazine that nobody in Britain takes seriously.

Goodfellas IS great, though.

― Super-8 Movie Shoot in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 15:24 (twenty years ago)

"total" film

crosspost

― RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 15:25 (twenty years ago)

Once again, I think these lists are compiled to cause shock, outrage, and indignation, and draw a little attention to lackey rags.

― andy --, Tuesday, 25 October 2005 15:26 (twenty years ago)

And once again, everyone in Britain reads the same magazine and agrees with one another about absolutely everythng

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 15:27 (twenty years ago)

tokyo story seems kinda out of place in that top 10!

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 15:45 (twenty years ago)

i prefer 'fight club' to 'citizen kane'.

― Enrique, naked in an unfamiliar future where corporations run the world... (Enri, Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:08 (twenty years ago)

Where is Screwed starring Norm Macdonald, Dave Chappelle and Elaine Stritch?

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:09 (twenty years ago)

i prefer 'fight club' to 'citizen kane'.

Go back to Sheffield, Benedict Arnold!

― andy --, Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:14 (twenty years ago)

england needs to get over it's glorification of american gangster films, it's embarassingly 90's of them

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:19 (twenty years ago)

i'm trying to construct a response to enrique that doesn't sound like dr morbius but i'm failing miserably.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:20 (twenty years ago)

Enrique is correct in his film assessment.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:21 (twenty years ago)

I don't want to sanctify "Kane" anymore than it's been, but I thought Fight Club was smugly self-concious (wink-wink style) and I found it completely forgettable. Apples and oranges, though.

― andy --, Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:26 (twenty years ago)

Kane is great but not as good as A Touch of Evil or The Third Man, and all three are better than Goodfellas, which is much, much better than Dude Where's My Car, which was better than Fight Club.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:27 (twenty years ago)

it's embarassingly 90's of them...

here, here.

― andy --, Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:28 (twenty years ago)

Whatever.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:31 (twenty years ago)

stop being so noughties, haters, you'll look all washed up in four and a bit years.

― Enrique, naked in an unfamiliar future where corporations run the world... (Enri, Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:31 (twenty years ago)

I'm trying to think if I've ever seen a worse film that "Fight Club"

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:32 (twenty years ago)

If the worst film you've ever seen stars Edward Norton than, really now, you're not doing so bad, in terms of your viewing choices, are you? Why don't you go watch that fucking Mae West-Timothy Dalton trainwreck sometime and then come back here and give us hyperbole, eh?

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:34 (twenty years ago)

... not counting films made by Spike Lee (of course). I know I've rarely seen a worse actor than Edward Norton.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:35 (twenty years ago)

no shit. Please view this piece of shit and then tell me Fight Club sucks. (xpost)

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:36 (twenty years ago)

It looks more promising!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:36 (twenty years ago)

Hahaha OMG did you ever seen the one that seems in a similar genre of bad B-list romanticoms, the one with Russell Crowe and Salma Hayek??? WTF! That thing was so bad.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:37 (twenty years ago)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096037/

!!!!

(Still enjoyed it more than fight club.)

― andy --, Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:39 (twenty years ago)

Well no wonder, it's got Debbie Harry AND Steve Cropper in it!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:41 (twenty years ago)

i guess the real question is which is more annoying, film polls that consistently vote CK the best film ever or peers who consistently tell you that FC is the best film ever.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:42 (twenty years ago)

Do people really think "Fight Club" is good?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:42 (twenty years ago)

Sorry, if that it seems like a silly question!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:43 (twenty years ago)

There is a LOT of room for "best film ever" in the statement, "I prefer to watch Fight Club to Citizen Kane," Justyn.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:44 (twenty years ago)

Actually the only thing pro Fight Club coming here is that it doesn't suck as bad as the Mae West-Timothy Dalton romance or Love Potion #9, but it is better than Citizen Kane. There is like 10000000000 miles of leeway there between whether or not anyone in the room is deeming Fight Club best film ever.

I mean, I know, I know, you watch AFI specials enough and it's like hypnotizing, you cannot believe CK isn't the best film ever so obviously anyone who compares it to Comparison X is saying Comparison X is best film evahhhh...

WTF!!!

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:46 (twenty years ago)

>tokyo story seems kinda out of place in that top 10!<

It's called tokenism, JD, and the day you could convincingly sound like me ain't coming.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:48 (twenty years ago)

It was re-released in British cinemas a couple of years ago - that's why it'll be in the list

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:49 (twenty years ago)

i really like 'fight club', i think. i haven't seen it in a long time (same goes for 'kane') but i really liked it when i was all fucked-up, when i was 19. i don't have a best film ever, but i think you should go all-out and polemical and say what you feel. so for me it's never going to be 'tokyo story', and it might be 'fight club'. when 'fight club' came out, i would have said 'the big lebowski' was the best film ever (in fact i did, in my student paper).

but throwing it back, how is 'kane' better? a lot of the things people like about 'kane' (the cinemtographic things) you can EASILY say about 'fight club' -- they're both state-of-the-art movies. i think 'fight club' CLEARLY has the better performances, and the better jokes.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:50 (twenty years ago)

That story makes it seem that the list was compiled by 'experts,' not the viewing public, which makes some of the rankings surprising. If it was truly joe six-pack, it'd be like:

1. Dance w/ Wolves
2. Forrrrrest Gump
3. Top Gun
4. Fight Club
&c., &c.

― andy --, Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:50 (twenty years ago)

Why is it better? Because "Fight Club" is fucking shite that's why. Come on, it's got Edward Norton AND Helena Bonham Carter in it! Ha ha

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

yeah i know ally, i didn't really mean anyone on this thread, i'm just sick of everyone i know going on about FC! i guess most people prob feel the same way about CK, but i first saw it when i was like 9 (don't ask) before i was aware of its Best Film Evah repute so the hype hasn't really affected my view of it.

the day you could convincingly sound like me ain't coming.

thank god for that.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:52 (twenty years ago)

a lot of films get rereleased, dada!

xpost: AND??!!

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:52 (twenty years ago)

i like 'goodfellas' too. i've seen it more than almost any other film.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:54 (twenty years ago)

Oh don't tell me you like Helena Bonham Carter - are you mad?!!?!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:55 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, little boy, why would you possibly revise the opinion you had of a film made for adults after first seeing it at 9?

I love Goodfellas, and it's no King of Comedy.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 18:56 (twenty years ago)

how is 'kane' better? a lot of the things people like about 'kane' (the cinemtographic things) you can EASILY say about 'fight club' -- they're both state-of-the-art movies.

the 'groundbreaking' stuff in kane is kind of a red herring - it's dazzling but little of it was new. i think it's a deeper and more interesting film, tho - i've prob seen it more than any film ever and i'm still seeing new stuff in it.

x-post: fuck off, you miserable prick.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:00 (twenty years ago)

just so we're clear, how old were you when you saw 'king of comedy'? i wouldn't want to think you were basing it on anything less adult than, ooh, 22, 23.

xpost

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:00 (twenty years ago)

Citizen Kane is no Touch of Evil.

― Are You Nomar? (miloaukerman), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:01 (twenty years ago)

and they're both no chimes at midnight.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:05 (twenty years ago)

I'd laugh at idiots if they were just a wee bit more coherent.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:05 (twenty years ago)

jesus, the original audiences of 'touch of evil' and 'kane' would have thought you guys really fucking weird: WHY and HOW is 'touch of evil' better than 'training day'?

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:06 (twenty years ago)

christ, enrique, what kind of 'defense' do you WANT of these films? watch whatever you want, no one's forcing you to think orson welles was a good director.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:10 (twenty years ago)

http://www.blaxploitation.com/images/poster_gifs/poster_thing_with_2_heads.gif

This was #65. Miland wasn't finished with "Lost Weekend," apparently.

― andy --, Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:11 (twenty years ago)

Touch of Evil didn't have an original audience. It bombed completely.

― Are You Nomar? (miloaukerman), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:11 (twenty years ago)

http://www.clubdesmonstres.com/images/211.jpg

― andy --, Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:12 (twenty years ago)

well, the idea that 'touch of evil' is *obviously* good, or better than 'citizen kane' needs some back-up, no? don't you think? it's just the assumption that anything welles did was good -- ie way above other films made in the same genre -- that needs explaining.

nomar -- it was a 'b', it didn't 'bomb' particularly, that's not how things worked back then.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:13 (twenty years ago)

has anyone on this thread made that assumption? not everything he did was great, the stranger and mr arkadin are both pretty meh and i'm not that big on the lady from shanghai either. otherwise i think if anything he's not lauded ENOUGH considering the high quality of his post-42 films, virtually all of em made in b-movie conditions or worse.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:21 (twenty years ago)

all movies are dumb, except for bio-dome

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:23 (twenty years ago)

as for why they're good, hell, i don't know, why is any film good? maybe we're all wasting time we could be spending playing pool.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:25 (twenty years ago)

I like most of the other films in the same genre as Touch of Evil. I prefer Kiss Me Deadly to Touch of Evil, actually. The worst thing about Touch of Evil is Charlton Heston's 'Mexican' makeup, there's nothing that bad in Aldrich's movie. (ps I kind of liked Training Day, too. Denzel's performance was fantastic, even Ethan Hawke was passable.)

But yeah, it was a bomb - it got put on as the second part of a double-feature, was panned by critics and made a quick exit for the period.

― Are You Nomar? (miloaukerman), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:26 (twenty years ago)

i like 'kiss me deadly' lots. oh, i like all the films mentioned here, but come on, orson welles gets bare love from the critics, compared with almost anyone.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:32 (twenty years ago)

i'm glad to see--or not see, rather--the usual suspects on there.

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:36 (twenty years ago)

: WHY and HOW is 'touch of evil' better than 'training day'?

because it doesn't toss away 90 minutes or so of well-established tension for a stupid, STUPID unbelievable fight scene that seems to last 20 miutes of the principals smacking each other with chairs, air-con units, other assorted debris atop a stucco building?

― foxy boxer (stevie), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:37 (twenty years ago)

the teenage gang in 'touch of evil' is about as believable, but i know what you mean.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:41 (twenty years ago)

The fact that not all of Welles' techniques ORIGINATED in CK (ie, Toland's ceiling shots from Stagecoach) does not make the way they were synthesized any less of a tour de force. I think his best film might be "Othello," which is based on some really old play.

I haven't seen Training Day but it was accused of being a nice formula liberal racist movie; since it won an Oscar I wouldn't doubt it. Armond White wrote Denzel was playing King Kong.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:43 (twenty years ago)

people have called 'othello' racist, too.

http://www.cia.edu/images/campuslife/cinematheque/julaug05/OTHELLO.jpg

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:50 (twenty years ago)

that's orson playing a black man, btw.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:50 (twenty years ago)

Isn't Dennis Weaver in Touch of Evil? As the kooky motel clerk?

But it's really about Night of the Hunter!

― andy --, Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:52 (twenty years ago)

I haven't seen Training Day but it was accused of being a nice formula liberal racist movie; since it won an Oscar I wouldn't doubt it.

i'm practically speechless at this one

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:54 (twenty years ago)

>people have called 'othello' racist, too.<

Sounds like the same geniuses who call "Huck Finn" racist.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 19:59 (twenty years ago)

armond white is a cunt.

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 20:00 (twenty years ago)

but fun sometimes

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 20:01 (twenty years ago)

"Training Day" wasn't racist, it just wasn't that great a movie! Possibly the only sympathy Oscar that was worse was Whoopi Goldberg's win for "Ghost".

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 20:03 (twenty years ago)

I have to see The Thing with Two Heads, actually--it's where the Incredible Bongo Band's "Bongo Rock" came from, which begat IBB's "Apache."

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 20:12 (twenty years ago)

What constitutes a "formula liberal racist movie"?

― Are You Nomar? (miloaukerman), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 21:11 (twenty years ago)

someone accuses it of that, then it wins an oscar

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 21:25 (twenty years ago)

then you don't even have to see it!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 21:25 (twenty years ago)

That story makes it seem that the list was compiled by 'experts,' not the viewing public, which makes some of the rankings surprising. If it was truly joe six-pack, it'd be like:

1. Dance w/ Wolves
2. Forrrrrest Gump
3. Top Gun
4. Fight Club

This is incredibly offensive.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 23:09 (twenty years ago)

I mean, A) who the fuck likes Dances with Wolves anyway?????

B) Most people seem to have forgotten forrest Gump.

I mean why not Tombstone? Makes more sense than ANY of those picks as "Joe Six Pack." Maybe ILX's film critics should hang out with some Joe Six Packs sometime!

Jesus god I'm hstencil.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 23:10 (twenty years ago)

$10 says if you asked this mythical Joe Six Pack, he'd be ALL about Field of Dreams or Brian's Song or Rudy or some other AMAZING fucking movie.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 23:12 (twenty years ago)

This is UK Joe Sixpack though. Ergo it would be Star Wars.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 23:15 (twenty years ago)

hahahaha yeah most Joe Six Packs I know would go for Star Wars too. Or Tron. We know too many Joe Dork Packs, Ned.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 23:27 (twenty years ago)

Heheheh. Well, it's an honest reflection of where we're at!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 23:31 (twenty years ago)

oh man TOMBSTONE

i remember loving that film back when i was 19, i'd totally bro down with the bros to it. but i saw it again a few months ago and holy shit, aside from some choice bits with Val Kilmer and other than right before, during, and after the OK Corral part, it was pretty terrible. but i guess it was meant to be, everyone was camping it up horribly, and it was swishier than an episode of will and grace.

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 23:41 (twenty years ago)

I have an ad for Tombstone somewhere on tape I've seen a few times because of the movie or show it's with. A GEORGE COSMATOS FILM.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 23:49 (twenty years ago)

I watch Tombstone two or three times a year (usually once at the holidays with my father, it's his favorite movie), it never gets old. Val Kilmer camping it up, Dana Delany looking all hot and 19th century.

― Are You Nomar? (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 00:00 (twenty years ago)

I haven't seen Tombstone since it first came out on video but I remember liking Val Kilmer and little else.

I want to say something about Fight Club having a more ugly and insufferable kind of melodrama than Citizen Kane but then my favorite movie is Who's Afraid Of Virginia Woolf? so it's not like I can chastise ugly melodrama.

Nonetheless, I'd rather watch Citizen Kane than Fight Club any day.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 00:05 (twenty years ago)

Morbius's enthusiasm has almost convinced me to watch Fight Club again. Almost.

― Are You Nomar? (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 00:06 (twenty years ago)

I liked Fight Club when I shared the same bullshit frustrations as the lead.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 00:06 (twenty years ago)

tombstone is good! i know the director's son

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 00:07 (twenty years ago)

maybe 'frustrations' isn't the right word so much as self-pity.

x-post OMG you know the spawn of Cosmatos!?! awesome!

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 00:08 (twenty years ago)

miccio OTM, it's amazing how ppl forget how fun CK is to actually watch. the newsreel alone is funnier than all of FC's sub-situationist pranks put together.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 00:20 (twenty years ago)

ugh, that post was so loaded with acronyms it's kind of painful to read.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 00:22 (twenty years ago)

WTF, Sextette is awesome!

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 01:39 (twenty years ago)

Why do film threads always turn people into frothing maniacal crankypants? :/

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 03:59 (twenty years ago)

wth gn brrl btwn yr tth y pst nly n vwls.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 07:08 (twenty years ago)

denzel washington's performance in training day is way worse than any of the performances in citizen kane

best orson welles movie = F For Fake, FFS

― Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 07:45 (twenty years ago)

i think it's the overly stagey acting in CK that puts me off.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 07:48 (twenty years ago)

fight club is hilarious. what's wrong with you people?

― g-kit (g-kit), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 09:53 (twenty years ago)

denzel washington's performance in training day is way worse than any of the performances in citizen kane

This just made me laugh so much!

Also I'd like to point out that Citizen Kane is not Dre. I haven't forgotten it. I just don't like it. At ALL.

Orson Welles is not for me, though.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 12:52 (twenty years ago)

fight club is hilarious. what's wrong with you people?

it's a nice formula liberal fascist movie; i knew i'd like it sight-unseen.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 12:55 (twenty years ago)

It features Jared Leto getting the shit kicked out of him. There is no way it can be all bad.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 13:04 (twenty years ago)

Theorry = Ebert?

Joe Six-Pack is smart enough to know Johns Wayne & Ford made ten westerns better than an overachieving lark like Tombstone.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 15:10 (twenty years ago)

what a controversial statement

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 15:35 (twenty years ago)

hey guys, did you know that the universally acknowledged masters of the western form made better westerns than tombstone?!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 15:36 (twenty years ago)

"universally acknowledged" esp on ILX

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 15:39 (twenty years ago)

yup!!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 15:40 (twenty years ago)

of course it's 'stagy' acting, they were ALL STAGE ACTORS!

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 15:58 (twenty years ago)

John Ford presents Deadwood, starring Klaus Kinski with a script by Jean Genet.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 15:59 (twenty years ago)

It features Jared Leto getting the shit kicked out of him. There is no way it can be all bad.

OTM.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:02 (twenty years ago)

also any scene where Ed Norton punches himself is good. Most of the good stuff involves a fist hitting a face.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:04 (twenty years ago)

Why do film threads always turn people into frothing maniacal crankypants? :/

prob cos we find ourselves either turning into brave defenders of the canon ("fools, they'll be watching 'the searchers' a hundred years after the last copy of 'magnum force' has crumbled into a pile of unmourned dust") or puckish populist contrarians ("this movie has more EXPLOSIONS and is made in COLOR, therefore it is better").

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:06 (twenty years ago)

fight club is like "adbusters" crossed with bloodsport.

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:07 (twenty years ago)

Fight Club is a thoroughly enjoyable, mean-spirited, self-involved movie.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:15 (twenty years ago)

Tyler Durden: Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.
Tyler Durden: It's only after you've lost everything that you're free to do anything.
Tyler Durden: The things you own end up owning you.
Tyler Durden: We're a generation of men raised by women. I'm wondering if another woman is really the answer we need.

Tyler Durden: Shut up! Our fathers were our models for God. If our fathers bailed, what does that tell you about God?
Narrator: No, no, I... don't...
Tyler Durden: Listen to me! You have to consider the possibility that God does not like you. He never wanted you. In all probability, he hates you. This is not the worst thing that can happen.
Narrator: It isn't?

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:16 (twenty years ago)

plus its totally GAY but acts like its not.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:17 (twenty years ago)

Hence its (near-)genius! (Which 'self', Tyler or IKEA Boy?) ILXers who dislike it are just pissed it ended their postcoital use of the "best fuck I've had since grade school" line.

btw Sergio Leone had little use for Ford/Wayne.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:18 (twenty years ago)

I mean the film is super-homoerotic, yet no one involved in the movie seems to be aware of it at all. Plus its narrative conceit doesn't really make any sense at all.

I hated that movie. Almost as much as American Beauty.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:18 (twenty years ago)

Morbius what is your deal with this ILX AS THE ANTI CANON ANTI POPULIST thing? Because we hate Spielberg, by and large? I mean he sucks. You're on a thread full of people going right along with the Citizen Kane meme and you're still gonna pull that one on the westerns tip, though? WTF? I mean far be it from me to tell you to stop your you v. us schtick and all but seriously, no group of Citizen Kane freaks aren't going to be able to wax poetic about any number of ancient westerns you can bring up.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:20 (twenty years ago)

Basically if you knock out one or two quotable lines about straight white male alienation in the first fifteen minutes (also a shot of the lead actor staring into space, wracked with ennui) and make sure the rest of the movie is filled with lectures, screaming and swearing you can expect standing ovations and a generation to buy your posters. Too much punching keeps you from getting an Oscar though.

x-post!

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:24 (twenty years ago)

Leone was rather touched when a review by an enemy of his linked parts of a A Fistful of Dollars to the works of John Ford. When calling to thank him, the guy said, "What do you have to do with that film?" He realized the man had assumed the film was in fact directed by "Bob Robertson" (the name used to sell the film as an American production), and after that his films were always panned by this fellow.

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:26 (twenty years ago)

There should be a special Oscar, for best Jared Leto beating.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:27 (twenty years ago)

>the film is super-homoerotic<

Ohhh yeahhhh....

>yet no one involved in the movie seems to be aware of it<

I own the DVD and have never listened to all the commentaries, but I really doubt that. (esp if the rumors are true)

>Plus its narrative conceit doesn't really make any sense at all.<

It depends. Did you read the novel, esp before the film? I bought it. Clinical psychological sense, no, but "Vertigo" would fail there too.

The Narrator's early ennui-laden voiceovers are hardly lectures, and are undermined by later events.

Films that try that hard to adopt a POV and put you in someone's head are rare, esp $70 million superproductions from Fox.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:28 (twenty years ago)

I think I prefer Panic Room to Fight Club, despite its shitty ending, because Dwight Yoakam is great and it still has the "Jared Leto gets beat up while wearing ridiculous haircut" element.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:30 (twenty years ago)

Leone wrote an homage to John Ford in Corriere della Sera late in his life, and over the desk in his study was a picture of John Ford, signed by the man himself: "To Sergio Leone, with admiration".

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:30 (twenty years ago)

http://mirrorimageorigin.collegepublisher.com/media/paper374/stills/fjtazt61.jpg vs. http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/1999_Fight_Club/Thumb/999FCB_Jared_Leto_005.jpg

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:32 (twenty years ago)

xpost

I bought it = I accepted it

And re narrative conceit not making any sense, the narrator is unbalanced, right?

Why does that Frayling guy who wrote the Leone bio say he disliked Ford's films? Just a complex relationship maybe.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:32 (twenty years ago)

sounds like he dug him to me

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:35 (twenty years ago)

"John Ford is a filmmaker whose work I admired enormously, more than any other director of westerns. I could almost say that it was thanks to him that I even considered making Westerns myself. I was very influenced by Ford's honesty and his directness. Because he was an Irish immigrant who was full of gratitude to the United States of America, Ford was also full of optimism."

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:36 (twenty years ago)

Christ, why doesn't Leone marry him already? Get a room.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:37 (twenty years ago)

omg gear

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:38 (twenty years ago)

they obviously had different worldviews, i suppose. leone preferred his later films, esp The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, because it was cynical, which maybe isn't to say he disliked the others but didn't find common ground with them as much.

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:39 (twenty years ago)

also: Ford married Leone just prior to the former's death in 1973. a very sweet story, actually!

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:40 (twenty years ago)

(After this weekend I have to say that I would take "The Grudge" or "Doom" over any movie mentioned on this thread so far.)

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:40 (twenty years ago)

The Grudge?

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:41 (twenty years ago)

Doom?

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:42 (twenty years ago)

That movie was fucked for me because I'd seen Ju-On (highly recommended, though I don't know if it works if you've seen The Grudge first) and it was inexplicable that Buffy would run from ghosts. Hard to worry for the Slayer.

x-post I haven't seen Doom so I won't speak on that. Plus it's got The Rock, who is cool.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:44 (twenty years ago)

The Rock needs to star in a sequel to The Rock. I'm not kidding. Bring back Nicolas Cage, partner him with the Rock, put in Sean Connery somewhere, have the ghost of Ed Harris in a cameo, etc.

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:47 (twenty years ago)

SMG is kind of fucked from now on because everyone expects her to be Buffy, ergo she can no longer do any movie where she doesn't kick everyone's ass.

I loved "The Grudge" solely because of the even-handed implacability of the ferociously-pissed-off spirits in that house. I loved "Doom" because it was exactly the right type of wafer-thin character development for a movie like that, plus it had a fantastic-if-telegraphed bait-and-switch in it.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:49 (twenty years ago)

Also "The Grudge" was directed by Sam Raimi, which means Joxer was in it! Joxer is awesome.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:50 (twenty years ago)

Without seeing it, I will have to say that I think The Rundown is better than Doom.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:52 (twenty years ago)

The only parts I liked in The Rundown was the two early fight scenes (one scored by a Missy-AC/DC mash-up!) and when the monkeys fucked their faces. I need to see Walking Tall one of these days but I love the original so much I'm guessing it will pale in comparison.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:55 (twenty years ago)

Grudge wasn't directed by Sam Raimi! Just produced. And dude, you need to see Ju-On if you get a chance. The spirit thing is even stronger there, plus the movie plot isn't pat but rather abstract, which I think is more effective.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:56 (twenty years ago)

i think the last Sam Raimi film I saw was For Love of the Game.

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:59 (twenty years ago)

The only Fight Club that matters:

Fight Club 1910 (A Masterpiece Theatre/Merchant and Ivory Production)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:00 (twenty years ago)

"Doom" vs "The Rundown" is a tough call, actually! Obviously Rosario Dawson is a better actress and more attractive than Random Anonymous Blonde From "Doom", but Random Scowly Sidekick Guy From "Doom" is about 6500% less annoying than Sean Williams Scott. Also, while a monkey fucking someone's face is kind of funny the first time you see it, it's a humorous device that gets old astonishingly fast.

(xpost: The people I was with already had a hard time with "The Grudge" because there didn't seem to be a logical motive for the house being so pissed with everyone in creation. When I tried to explain that that was kind of the entire point of the movie, they got even more irritated.)

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:00 (twenty years ago)

y'all should see the haunted submarine movie Below

"what can we do??"

"We have to go....below!"

(not a line in the film, actually)

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:03 (twenty years ago)

comapred to Ju-On, they actually did try to attach a more linear motive to the violence in The Grudge. My problem was actually they weakly tried to add coherency, which, as you note, is totally against the point. See Ju-On!

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:03 (twenty years ago)

also, everybody in Ju-On is Japanese, so there isn't that "OMG! Americans chased by creepy slant-eyeds!" element.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:04 (twenty years ago)

How many more times are you gonna say Ju-on???

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:06 (twenty years ago)

Ju-onna take a guess???

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:07 (twenty years ago)

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:09 (twenty years ago)

My god, Anthony, that single pun is worse than your entire Sean Connery impersonation fest back in 2003. I salute you.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:09 (twenty years ago)

also, everybody in Ju-On is Japanese, so there isn't that "OMG! Americans chased by creepy slant-eyeds!" element.

Um. I didn't have any sense of that element at all.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:14 (twenty years ago)

The fact that all the screaming lead actors are American despite the fact that the movie is set in Tokyo didn't stick out?

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:15 (twenty years ago)

Admittedly it's more obv. if you've already seen...

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:16 (twenty years ago)

The fact that all the screaming lead actors are American despite the fact that the movie is set in Tokyo didn't stick out?

No. If anything, it made the implacable spirit all the more egalitarian and frightning. Also, there were screaming Japanese people in the movie who got killed as well as screaming Americans and, in the context of the story, the characters who appeared in the movie and their nationalities made sense.

That comment is brimming with all kinds of really visciously awful assumptions that aren't borne out at all by the movie.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:20 (twenty years ago)

Dude, they took a Japanese movie, added a bunch of American leads and kept all the Japanese ghosts. Why didn't they move the story to America?

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:26 (twenty years ago)

i loved the rundown!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:27 (twenty years ago)

Deciding that the monsters need to still be Japanese but the heroes have to be white now, sorry I think my vicious assumption is pretty valid.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:27 (twenty years ago)

If you can give me one reason why moving the story to America and making the ghosts pissed-off white people should have been done besides "because doing what they did is RACIST", I will be shocked.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:31 (twenty years ago)

Frankly, Dan, I don't think they needed to change anything. But what they did change is pretty obviously pandering and borderline offensive.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:34 (twenty years ago)

Because...? (This is the crucial bit of your argument you're missing; if it's so obvious why this is an inherently racist thing to do, why can't you articulate it?)

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:40 (twenty years ago)

dances with wolves is pretty good! it's leisurely and pretty and melancholy.
goodfellas is ok.
fight club is good and more complex than anyone takes care to notice.
tokyo story is great and devastating.
vertigo is actually the best movie on this list.
citizen kane really is pretty good. i think my favorite welles is the Trial
tombstone is very good but not quite as good as some john ford movies.
where is back to the future on this list?

― ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:41 (twenty years ago)

i think i prefer non-gangsta scorcese

― ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:43 (twenty years ago)

Dan, if they remade Battle Royale and changed nothing except make the three leads foreign exchange students and have them played by OC cast members...you wouldn't find that offensive? They took a foreign horror movie and replaced the leads with Americans while keeping the foreign horror. Foreign horror is ok, foreign leads not. I don't how I can articulate this further.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:44 (twenty years ago)

(xpost)

(Or, to put it another way, why are you making such a big fucking deal of the races of the people killed when the movie doesn't?)

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:45 (twenty years ago)

I don't know why people post x-posts when they're clearly answered by what interrupted them.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:53 (twenty years ago)

unless ryan's posts were what you were referring to and mine just slipped through unnoticed, which does happen. but yeah, I hope I've made my point clear.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 17:56 (twenty years ago)

This conversation should go back over to the Crash thread, where it has been established that the only racism that counts is that which manifests itself in broad, sweeping slurs.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:03 (twenty years ago)

You've made your point clear, Anthony. I think your point is bullshit and reactionary and I think your analogy isn't sound.

Eric, you are an idiot.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:05 (twenty years ago)

>Why do film threads always turn people into frothing maniacal crankypants?<

Strike "film." Nerds and ex-nerds bullying each other nonstop, it's a fucking BB.

>What constitutes a "formula liberal racist movie"?<

I know it when I see it, like Kasdan's "Grand Canyon."

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:07 (twenty years ago)

Where is the love?

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:08 (twenty years ago)

Basically Anthony what you're arguing is that the fact that they decided to do an Americanized remake of "Ju-On" is inherently racist and I don't actually buy that.

Eric, the love will come back when you stop saying things that make you sound like an idiot.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:10 (twenty years ago)

if you're not in too much of a "fuck you" state, I'd like to know why its "bullshit and reactionary" to be annoyed when the only thing changed about a foreign horror movie is the addition of American leads. Earlier you ask why I don't care what the race of the victims is when the movie doesn't. If those making the movie didn't, they wouldn't have added the American element.

Dan, my point is the discrepancy between they decided to Americanize and what they didn't. They didn't Americanize the horror, just the sympathetic leads.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:12 (twenty years ago)

btw Sergio Leone had little use for Ford/Wayne

Ha ha! Have you covered this yet?

― BarabadabaDadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:13 (twenty years ago)

ack, I mean "why I care" not "don't care", obv.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:14 (twenty years ago)

im not sure it's racist so much as provincial. "racist" is being thrown around WAY to freely lately...

― ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:15 (twenty years ago)

I don't understand the argument, why can't white people live in Japan again?

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:15 (twenty years ago)

It's really not that different than movies like Cry Freedom, Beyond Rangoon or The Killing Fields, except this time they actually warped another movie to wedge the sympathetic white lead in.

x-post to Ally. OK. HERE WE GO. Movie about JAPANESE people in JAPAN dealing with JAPANESE ghosts is remade as movie about AMERICAN people in JAPAN dealing with JAPANESE ghosts. It wasn't some new story the person thought up. They took a great movie and WEDGED IN AMERICANS for reasons that I find pandering. If someone would like to explain why it's not pandering, feel free.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:17 (twenty years ago)

i think it was a combination of taking a relatively known commodity in SMG and using her to draw in a younger crowd. also, other americans were added to perhaps make her presence a little more sensical. and it was in Japan perhaps as an homage/perhaps to differentiate it from every other horror movie about a haunted house filled with murderous ghosts.

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:20 (twenty years ago)

Because it's an American movie and Sarah Michelle Gellar, for god knows what reason, was deemed more "bank" than random-Japanese-actress-3? What is so hard to comprehend about this? Why NOT keep it a story set in Japan, just because you've American-ized it? Isn't that just as "racist" to purposefully avoid setting the film in its original setting, because those peoples is SLANTY EYED? WTF, why are you going Momus?

I haven't seen the film at all but I mean it doesn't seem like perhaps there is a reason stated in the film why she'd be in Japan? Maybe the filmmakers felt the Japanese setting was integral to the story, maybe they were paying homage to the original.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:24 (twenty years ago)

I don't understand the argument, why can't white people live in Japan again?

because of this:

the best is the hello kitty one where she whispers to you to get up, then casually says it to you, then louder, until she's screaming at you "OHAYO!!! OHAYO!!! OHAYO GOZAIMASU!!!!"

-- gygax!

― knife (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:25 (twenty years ago)

WTF, why are you going Momus?

From a friend just now in an e-mail, referring to Momus' LJ:

i've ruffled sir momus' feathers a bit, i guess.

It's a sympathetic intertwining of the fates!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:27 (twenty years ago)

there's nothing in the story that requires the film to be in Japan. The ghosts in the original film were very effective and they wanted (and did) use the same actors for the ghosts. the leads were effective too but deemed less crucial. and I don't know how these explanations for SMG's presence contradict my claim that the film is pandering.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:28 (twenty years ago)

i mean "it's not racist, american movies do it all the time!" seems a bit awkward an argument.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:29 (twenty years ago)

there's nothing that requires it to be anywhere, it can be anywhere, so why not Japan?

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:30 (twenty years ago)

um, because it requires a whole bunch of story-warping to explain why all the leads are American?

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:30 (twenty years ago)

Maybe the filmmakers felt the Japanese setting was integral to the story, maybe they were paying homage to the original.

So they remade it? I don't follow this logic when the movie isn't even but a couple years old.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:32 (twenty years ago)

it's not story warping, story warping would be Tom Cruise teaching the samaurai everything about warfare.

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:32 (twenty years ago)

I thought the Samurai tought him!

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:36 (twenty years ago)

who knows, i didn't see that piece of shit. either way, look at the poster!

ihttp://www.sobrecarga.com.br/images/newsIMG/last-samurai.jpg

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:38 (twenty years ago)

No one said the film isn't pandering, I mean it's a horror movie starring a washed up blonde B-list starlet for christ's sake. We're just questioning your assertation that it is racist.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:39 (twenty years ago)

i never said it was! I said it was "pandering and borderline offensive."

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:41 (twenty years ago)

Yes but it was pandering and borderline offensive on the grounds of race, not on the grounds of the mere existance of Sarah Michelle Gellar (which is a point I would concede to you, if that was your argument).

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:41 (twenty years ago)

i'm questioning your assertion that SMG is a washed up blonde b-list starlet!!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:42 (twenty years ago)

By Anthony's logic, "The Ring" is also has a hint of uncomfortable pandering to it but it's okay because everyone in it is white (except for the woman at the convenience store).

I have not seen the original so I don't know how much they "warped" the story to explain the presence of white people. I Do know that the fact that the white people were white had very little (if any) impact on the movie I saw; the only impact I would say that that casting decision had on the story was to emphasize the "these people are removed from home" aspect that you get in most horror films, only it was doubly awful because the vast majority of these people were actually perfectly comfortable operating in a Japanese environment but they were getting jacked anyway.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:43 (twenty years ago)

Dude I know that's a controversial thing to say around here with all the Buffy fans but let's be realistic.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:43 (twenty years ago)

She washed up the second she did that weird piece of crap with Ryan Phillipe and Neve Campbell or whoever that was where she was a cokehead Glenn Close to Phillipe's wussy John Malkovich. Ugh, I can't believe anyone would say Fight Club is the worst movie ever when THAT movie exists.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:44 (twenty years ago)

SMG can't act worth a damn

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:44 (twenty years ago)

i mean she tries, really she does, and she was fine as buffy i guess but really

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:45 (twenty years ago)

and actually, I do think there's institutional racism involved in a remake that plays off in an "Americans in a foreign nightmare" remake of a Japanese horror movie.

All American remakes are slightly pandering, but a movie that changes only the leads is even more egregious in it.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:46 (twenty years ago)

Though it does have that hysterical scene where Neve Campbell or whoever that was passes around photocopies of Ryan Phillipe's TOTALLY GIRLY diary with these weird charactatures of SMG in it all over the place and then the principal dumps all SMG's coke all over the ground. Haha that was pretty good actually, she gets that weird snivelly I AM CRYING NOW SERIOUSLY GUYS expression that makes her look like a red-eyed Fivel and doesn't Ryan Phillipe die anyway so who cares what he thinks! WTF!

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:46 (twenty years ago)

and it wasn't like Bill Pullman and Ted Raimi had to be in the movie to explain how one foreign exchange student was!

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:47 (twenty years ago)

Why limit it to remakes then? Why not say Lost in Translation is racist?

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:48 (twenty years ago)

I mean dude, seriously, sometimes white people live in Japan for a while. I've known some of 'em! I imagine that if demons and ghosts came after them, they'd be Japanese demons on the tip that, well, Japan probably has a lot more dead Japanese people than other places would.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:49 (twenty years ago)

Are you ignoring the Japanese people in "The Grudge" who get killed to make your point or did you honestly forget about them?

(xpost: Ally, that was SELMA BLAIR, every indie guy's ex-girlfriend.)

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:50 (twenty years ago)

hahaha - Lost in Translation IS racist!

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:50 (twenty years ago)

TED RAIMI WAS IN THE MOVIE BECAUSE HE IS IN EVERY MOVIE THAT SAM RAIMI IS INVOLVED IN.

(xpost: oh for fuck's sake)

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:50 (twenty years ago)

It is.

(xp)

― knife (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

COME BACK MOMUS, ALL IS FORGIVEN

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

You people are all retarded and gay and lame.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:52 (twenty years ago)

Racist.

― knife (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:52 (twenty years ago)

actually many people have argued that LIT is offensive (personally I think that movie is ABOUT two people who are too wrapped up in their own lives to have anything but pompous bemusement over a foreign culture, not promoting the mentality), but I think I've made clear why this is a different case.

I'm curious why everybody's so defensive about the idea that Hollywood movies engage in institutional racism in the name of increased profits. And yes, there are Japanese people that are killed. And there's a nice hispanic guy in Bad Boys II. I mean what's so offensive about what I'm implying? That they added white heroes but kept japanese monsters?

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:54 (twenty years ago)

I mean, how, exactly, is Lost in Translation racist? Answers that aren't Momus's "poetry of the Japanese landscape what I've never seen part 3047" only.

xpost I'm only racist against teh Britishes.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:54 (twenty years ago)

gygax has a much more succinct and in-depth dissection of Lost in Translation and its weirdly racist conceits than I could ever write posted on some other thread... wherever it is, I defer to that. LiT looked great and had some funny, very well-shot moments, but it def. left me with an *ahem* not-so-fresh feeling in the way it portrayed Japan and Japanese people as incomprehensible and/or ridiculous, while the protagonists - who both, on the face of it, seem like totally self-centered assholes - were obviously intended to be more sympathetic.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:55 (twenty years ago)

The thing was that it didn't portray Japan or Japanese people at all. I will never understand why some people refuse to recognize this. I mean I can only remember a handful of Japanese people even being portrayed, most of which were stereotypes--not of Japanese people but, for example, of PR types. They just happened to be Japanese because that's where it was set. Could've easily been Germany or Chile, the importance was having it be an "other" culture to make the two protagonists feel alienated and absorb into themselves.

Japan is just fashionable and easy to shoot because it is a visually interesting place. Not to mention that the accepted commercial norm of weird random American actors who'd never consider doing commercial work in the US going over and doing Japanese ads gives an easy excuse for Bill Murray's character to be there. Japan facilitated the story but has virtually nothing to do with it.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:02 (twenty years ago)

You people are all retarded and gay and lame.

All of these things at once? Now that's an idea for a movie. Did someone say Oscar?

― knife (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:04 (twenty years ago)

i dont see what's so "racist" about any of these claims. it's a pretty specific word being used in all sorts of irresponsible ways. these films are perhaps provincial, insensitive, etc, but racist?

― ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:07 (twenty years ago)

I say these films are all FASCIST

xpost wasn't that what Forrest Gump was already about?

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:08 (twenty years ago)

I guess I see an inherent racism comes in the positive (and this is where miccio and I disagree) portrayal of condescending, self-absorbed tourists against the backdrop of a poorly represented foreign culture.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:08 (twenty years ago)

I guess I see an inherent racism in the positive (and this is where miccio and I disagree) portrayal of condescending, self-absorbed tourists against the backdrop of a poorly represented foreign culture.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:08 (twenty years ago)

promoting a demeaning stereotype = racism. thats not that complicated to grasp, is it?

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:10 (twenty years ago)

xpost wasn't that what Forrest Gump was already about?

haha!

MY BIG FAT GREEK GAY LEFT FOOT

― knife (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:10 (twenty years ago)

i think its really a question of whether you take the movie to portrayal them positively or merely sympathetically. And if you have no sympathy, then yeah it's positive and offensive, etc.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:10 (twenty years ago)

Assuming that the stereotyping is due to racism (again, the dippy PR types would have been portrayed just as meanly had they been any other race) seems racist too.

And I also think it's stretching it to claim that Scarlett and Bill are portrayed positively.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:11 (twenty years ago)

Let's get to the root of the problem here with the Grudge...I mean, here it is, set in Japan, and the main characters are all speaking ENGLISH! WTF! Don't even get me started about the script for "The Mexican" not being in mexican, for christs sake...

― John Justen (johnjusten), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:13 (twenty years ago)

I also don't understand why a foreign culture has to be represented at all, poorly or well. The film is not ABOUT Japan. That's like saying a film is racist because they do not delve into the background of some bit character who happens to be Native American or something.

xpost hahahahaha

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:14 (twenty years ago)

WHY DO THEY MAKE ALL THE CHARACTERS IN THE JAPANESE VIDEOGAMES SPEAKEE ENGLISCH WHENS THEY BRING THEM STATESIDE? YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DOING
MOVE ZIG!!!

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:16 (twenty years ago)

welllll, I def. came away with the impression the audience was supposed to sympathize w/Murray and Johannsen, want them to get together, identify with their confusion and alienation. I didn't sympathize with either of them - I thought they were stupid self-absorbed twats who would be having a good time if they just bothered to leave the hotel, learn a little Japanese, and explore with an open mind. Instead they sat around moping over how lonely they were.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:16 (twenty years ago)

I always feel bad for the Native American extra that has to stand in the back wearing the "I use all the parts of the buffalo" T-shirt.

xpost

― John Justen (johnjusten), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:17 (twenty years ago)

Yes, which is the point.

xpost

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:17 (twenty years ago)

Shakey, it's not hard to grasp, i guess i just dont like the term because there is an implication of intent. i mean i doubt sofia coppolla or the film really harbors an anti-japanese agenda!!

it's more cultural insensitivity, myopia, even laziness or ignorance...

― ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:18 (twenty years ago)

THEY ARE CONFUSED AND ALIENATED FROM THEIR LIVES, THE PEOPLE THEY THOUGHT THEY LOVED, THEIR SO'S AND THEIR FRIENDS AND HAVE BEEN STUCK IN A NEW PLACE AND ERGO ARE JUST SITTING AROUND BEING DEPRESSED AND DRINKING A BIT. WTF DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH JAPAN BESIDES A COUPLE PEOPLE WHO SAW THE FILM HAVE HENTAI COLLECTIONS THE SIZE OF MY SWEET VALLEY HIGH COLLECTION BACK HOME, AND ARE OFFENDED THAT THEY DIDN'T GET TO SEE ENOUGH PINK HAIRED JAPAN LADIES?

I AM WRITING IN CAPS BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S A GOOD TREND TO HAVE ON THIS THREAD.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:19 (twenty years ago)

YELLING IS FUN

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:23 (twenty years ago)

SEE JU-ON THEN YOU WILL UNDERSTAND WHY THE GRUDGE IS AN ESPECIALLY ANNOYING, PANDERING AND EGREGIOUS TEH SUCK. UNTIL THEN YOU WILL JUST BE A DEFENSIVE CRANKYPANTS TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND (I.E. JU-ON).

SEE JU-ON.

JU-ON.

http://www.chronogram.com/issue/1999/02/born%20a%20jew.jpg http://cache.smarthome.com/images/2031w.jpg

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:23 (twenty years ago)

(also I don't follow how the term racism implies intent...? One can have unchallenged, preconceived notions that are racist without any conscious political agenda being evoked)

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:26 (twenty years ago)

SEEN THEM BOTH. THINK YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR TREE. TRY BE LESS OFFENSENSITIVE, PERHAPS?

YELLING, IN FACT, FUN.

xpost

― John Justen (johnjusten), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:27 (twenty years ago)

Ally is a treat on this thread!

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:27 (twenty years ago)

"less offensensitive" = "suck it up, Remy"

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:28 (twenty years ago)

ADMITTEDLY THE NEW CAST WOULD BE LESS ANNOYING IF THEY WEREN'T PAINFULLY MISCAST AND BILLPULLMANY. THEN PERHAPS I WOULD BE LESS OFFENSENSITIVO BUT AS THEY DID A SHIT JOB IN A SHIT WAY FOR A SHIT REASON I BRAY NIGHT AND DAY AGAINST THE RACISISMING.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:31 (twenty years ago)

Hahahahahahahaha I am loving this thread to pieces now.

HI JOHN!

I actually thought SMJ did the acting of her career in "The Grudge". It's the first time I've seen her in something where she wasn't A) bitchy, or B) Buffy. Also, considering what Bill Pullman does right at the beginning of the movie, I am kind of super glad he was in it; we actually rewound that first scene three times because it was so awesome.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:34 (twenty years ago)

I ADMIT IT WAS GOOD TO SEE HIM DO THE FLIP

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:35 (twenty years ago)

BUT THEN HE CAME BACK AND I WAS FULL OF OFFENSESITIVO

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:36 (twenty years ago)

I Also really liked how the movie balanced between people who knew what was going on in the house and actively avoided it/tried to stop it and the people who were all "lalala, here I am in this awesome little houseAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"

Also, I liked that the movie was non-linear.

OFFENSESITIVO looks like the bastard cousin of SUSSUDIO. Just say the word, motherfucker.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:38 (twenty years ago)

Whenever I read Shakey Mo Collier "SERIOUS POSTS YOU GUYS" I imagine them in the voice of the adults from the Charlie Brown cartoons - "WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH. WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH WAAH RACISM YOU GUYS WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH."

― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:40 (twenty years ago)

DUDE THE NON-LINEAR IS LIKE YAY MORE NON-LINEAR IN http://www.nemosto.net/cafe/jv01.gif. I WILL PAY FOR YOUR NETFLIX OR WHATEVS.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:40 (twenty years ago)

I hate it when my coffee is sequential.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:42 (twenty years ago)

you're probably right Shakey, im just being a baby because i dont like to throw the term around. it's just too strong. if harboring generalizing stereotypes, or laughing at insensitive caricuatures is racist then pretty much everyone is racist, or has racist beliefs or tendencies. (you can get a lot of liberals to laugh by making fun of "rednecks" or "jesus freaks")

but i dont think it does any harm, and probably does a lot of good towards common understanding, to avoid using "racist" except when it explicitly applies, like if LIT was basically about how japanese people are silly and weird and not about the probable fact that Americans see them that way. (there are no outright false depictions about how japanese behave in that movie, it just avoids providing a context for their behavior, and it doesnt present the full complexity of a typical japansese individual, and i doubt any movie really could with that particular story...)

― ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:43 (twenty years ago)

(i think my general argument is that the term "racist" generally obscures more than it reveals in the long run--it's just not a useful word most of the time.)

― ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:46 (twenty years ago)

fair enough.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:47 (twenty years ago)

(I mean WAHWAHWAHWAHWAHHWAWHA)

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 19:59 (twenty years ago)

HAhahahahahaha OMG I love all of you.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:01 (twenty years ago)

The problem with LIT wasn't the depiction of the Japanese characters, it was the depiction of EVERYONE but Johanssen and Murray. Ribisi, Farris, the nightclub singer, etc. - everyone who wasn't cool got treated like shit (by Sofia), while everyone Sofia wanted you to sympathize or identify with was shown in the best light (ie the Japanese hipsters). It was almost Spielbergian in its manipulation.

― Are You Nomar? (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:01 (twenty years ago)

That is a way more accurate and insightful negative criticism of "LiT" than any other I've read on this forum.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:04 (twenty years ago)

That brazen cattiness in regards to Farris and Ribisi is part of what I enjoyed about the movie. It was interesting to see her use the same objectifying auteurist tricks dudes use all the time.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:10 (twenty years ago)

Admittedly, that's not necessarily a good thing, which is why I'm sympathetic to both sides of the debate (though not whatever idiot wrote it was "a love letter to Japanese culture" on the back of the box)

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:11 (twenty years ago)

The Grudge sucked so bad. Adding a couple of David Lynch's actors into your movie does not automatically make it creepy. I haven't seen the original but it felt like they tried to force a Hollywood protagonist and linear plot on top of a movie that was meant to be more atmospheric and episodic.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:12 (twenty years ago)

word up!

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:12 (twenty years ago)

Ribisi's italian right? I call bullshit on sofia's anti-italian racism.

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:12 (twenty years ago)

god I hate Giovanna Ribisi. He's like the Scientologist's homunculus.

Altho the Other Sister is pants-wettingly hilarious.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:12 (twenty years ago)

Yes, that is what I was getting at by stereotypes were not race based they were persona based except I don't have a problem with it in the film, like I didn't find it a distracting manipulation.

ANYWAY Anthony I'm sure you're 100% right that the original Ju-Jitsu or whatever is much better than The Grudge! I mean I will never see either film to be honest!

xpost oh my god the Other Sister.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:13 (twenty years ago)

"LiT" is a love-letter to trustafarian hipsters and the washed-up middle-aged perverts who want to wank on them. Even if I did like the movie.

I am not at all shocked that Walter and I disagree about "The Grudge", I have to say.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:13 (twenty years ago)

a double feature of The Other Sister and that Rosie O'Donnell movie would be gold.

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)

I'm actually planning to have a party and show The Other Sister, Radio, I Am Sam and that Rosie movie (if its out on DVD) someday.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

The Grudge had some good scares - the very first one when the girl pokes her head into the attic (fuck a spoiler, anyone who wants to see this already has) actually made me jump back in my seat.

I rarely ask that my b-grade horror movies provide much in the way of acting or plot, just give me atmosphere and scares, and I'm happy as a clam.

― Are You Nomar? (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:16 (twenty years ago)

I still cannot figure out what kind of sucker actually paid Juliette Lewis and Giovanni Ribisi to "act" like retards.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:17 (twenty years ago)

are there any other choice star-as-retard movies out there? Gilbert Grape doesn't count because I actually think DiCaprio was great in that. I want ham.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:17 (twenty years ago)

Nell?

― Are You Nomar? (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:18 (twenty years ago)

what cinema has taught me is that retards communicate by talking loudly and holding their right hand perpetually up in a half-closed fist, and will do stupid things at the wrong time, but just when you need a nugget of simple wisdom, they'll say something like, "don't worry, the sky is boo, and always will be, and that's what you should think about", at which point the cynical stockbroker brother will get all misty and say, "that's right...it always will be", put his arm around the simple-minded philosopher, and walk off. then we fade to the cynic finally coming around and seeing that his buddy's caretaker is a sweet and actually rather hot woman who he'll pwn by story's end.

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:18 (twenty years ago)

xpost - I think you even get Jodie Foster tittays in that one.

― Are You Nomar? (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:19 (twenty years ago)

we already had a thread about this...

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:19 (twenty years ago)

OMG "Radio"!!!!!!!!!!!! Cuba Gooding Jr seriously needs to scale back on his cable so that he doesn't have to do such fucking horrifying movies.

The Grudge had some good scares - the very first one when the girl pokes her head into the attic (fuck a spoiler, anyone who wants to see this already has) actually made me jump back in my seat.

The best part about that was the timing! Usually in these movies, there's some time spent setting up an atmosphere of dread and unease before things start popping out at you but here they were all, "Eh, mood-setting is for pussies! Let's start chewing people up right away."

Not changing the actors who played the ghosts was a wise, wise decision because THEY WERE FUCKING TERRIFYING.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:19 (twenty years ago)

I really wanted to love the Grudge and was pretty engaged with it until the last 20 minutes or so when I realized it wasn't going anywhere. I think if I found it scarier I would have enjoyed it more but that little boy was just too cute.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:20 (twenty years ago)

Rosie O'Donnell Playing a Retarded Person on Hallmark TV Movie

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:20 (twenty years ago)

Did anyone see the Dark Water remake? I just couldn't bring myself to pay money for a movie about the evils of leaky pipes.

― Are You Nomar? (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:22 (twenty years ago)

Cute????? He was demonspawn! (Although he wasn't nearly as creepy as the mom or the dad.)

The "not going anywhere" thing seems like a gigantic red herring to me, as the story definitely does go somewhere; it just doesn't go where you want it go.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)

Where does Benny & Joon fit into the pantheon of mentally-disabled movies?

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)

Because I've always wondered, I mean whatever is wrong with Joon is completely nondescript and doesn't actually seem to be anything at all, besides being slightly odd.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:24 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I didn't know that "being an odd, selfish bitch" was actually covered in the DSMR-IV.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:26 (twenty years ago)

But her brother treats her like she's completely mentally handicapped, like he is always alluding to this big mysterious issue she has and why he cannot let her like do anything by herself or ever ever date Johnny Depp (that is probably smart of him though).

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:27 (twenty years ago)

I've always suspected that this is because the brother is fucker her (a la The Carpenters).

― The Ghost of Libel-A-Go-Go! (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:32 (twenty years ago)

I've always suspected that this is because the brother is fucking her (a la The Carpenters).

(dammit I bet this has already posted with the typo)

― The Ghost of Libel-A-Go-Go! (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:32 (twenty years ago)

The "not going anywhere" thing seems like a gigantic red herring to me, as the story definitely does go somewhere; it just doesn't go where you want it go.

I thought it was trying to be the Ring which was not that scary to me (though much scarier than the Grudge) but was infinitely more interesting because it was more of a mystery than a horror film. In the Grudge I expected something to develop beyond the obvious "something bad happened in this house" to make up for the fact that it was only mildly frightening.

Raimi's The Gift is another film that mines the mystery + mild horror thing much more successfully than the Grudge (if you can get past another horribly out of place Keanu appearance).

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:33 (twenty years ago)

BASTARD ILE I HATE YOU WITH THE BLAZING FURY OF A THOUSAND SUNS

(xpost: I didn't think it was trying to be "The Ring" at all; I thought it was trying to be its own thing.)

― The Ghost of FUCKER FUCKSTICK McFUCKINS (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:35 (twenty years ago)

"Trying to be the Ring" not in terms of the original japanese films (which I haven't seen) but in the sense that it was an attempt to make a successful American crossover of a hit Japanese horror movie. I realize that this sounds suspiciously like I'm saying that all japanese horror films look the same to me.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:41 (twenty years ago)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005JKWE.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 20:44 (twenty years ago)

yellow card: Keanu Reeves improves every movie he's in, you never need to get past his appearance in anything.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 22:51 (twenty years ago)

i like Keanu Reeves!

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 23:00 (twenty years ago)

I like him sometimes. I'm not buying him as a wife beating redneck though.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 23:02 (twenty years ago)

you people are insane.

Keanu's only watchable when no acting is required, a la The River's Edge.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 23:02 (twenty years ago)

Now there's a movie that's better than Citizen Kane.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 23:08 (twenty years ago)

hahaha

maybe

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 23:09 (twenty years ago)

for some reason I just thought thayt Adrien Brody and Keanu Reeves weren't too far off, then my mind flashed to Keanu Reeves as if he were in The Pianist.

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 23:10 (twenty years ago)

song lyrics composed of lines from River's Edge vs. song lyrics composed of lines from Citizen Kane

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 23:10 (twenty years ago)

http://www.screenselect.co.uk/images/products/3/11903-large.jpg

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 23:15 (twenty years ago)

Keanu Reeves would've been GREAT in the Pianist.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 23:40 (twenty years ago)

"You have to hide here. I'll come once a week with food."

"Bro, bring me some pringles and natty light."

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 23:57 (twenty years ago)

What was the move where the evil aliens had British accents and the good ones spoke Italian?

― knife (nordicskilla), Thursday, 27 October 2005 00:14 (twenty years ago)

I was going to say "All of them" until you threw that spanner in the works with the Italian.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Thursday, 27 October 2005 00:18 (twenty years ago)

that would be:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0009F43W2.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

― howell huser (chaki), Thursday, 27 October 2005 00:20 (twenty years ago)

Genuine PG rated fun!

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Thursday, 27 October 2005 00:20 (twenty years ago)

As opposed to that ingenuine pg rated fun.

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 27 October 2005 00:21 (twenty years ago)

disingenuine. gah. i'll be in the sauna.

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 27 October 2005 00:23 (twenty years ago)

Ingenue pg rated fun?

― John Justen (johnjusten), Thursday, 27 October 2005 01:17 (twenty years ago)

Unguent pg rated fun.

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 27 October 2005 01:20 (twenty years ago)

Nice.

― John Justen (johnjusten), Thursday, 27 October 2005 01:24 (twenty years ago)

Armond White wrote Denzel was playing King Kong.

As usual, Armond White is a complete idiot. King Kong ain't got shit on Denzel.

― The Yellow Kid, Thursday, 27 October 2005 03:47 (twenty years ago)

hahaha... quoting that line is so retarded if you haven't seen the movie

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 27 October 2005 14:41 (twenty years ago)

I can't even figure out what Michael Jackson is doing in that movie poster, I've lookd at it like 17 times now.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Thursday, 27 October 2005 14:45 (twenty years ago)

Eric Roberts AND Evan Marriott!!!!!!!!

― The Ghost of Best Movie Ever (Dan Perry), Thursday, 27 October 2005 15:47 (twenty years ago)

I want to say that Charlie Schlatter redeemed his existence in some movie, but I can't remember what it was.

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 27 October 2005 15:48 (twenty years ago)

Trivia for
Miss Cast Away (2004)

* Filmed on location at Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch.

* Bob Denver's final film.

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 27 October 2005 15:49 (twenty years ago)

trailer here

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 27 October 2005 15:53 (twenty years ago)

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