I HATE APPLE

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First off, let me say that I've been a Mac user for years. But lately I've been incredibly disappointed with their service.

I won't bore you with a number of issues with tech support from both Apple Stores and the telephone support during a recent Xserv purchase for my company.

Now I have an iPod issue. I've had the iPod for eight months & the LCD screen suddenly stopped working. I brought it into my local Mac reseller & they thought they could put a new LCD screen in. Turns out they didn't have a 4th generation screen. So they charged me $25 to waste my time.

So they tell me to go online & register to send it in to Mac for repair. The online site leads me through about 15 pages before it tells me "can't verify serial number". I try again. No luck.

The site gives me a number to call for tech support. I ended up speaking to a woman who could speak very little english, but I beared with it. She told me my warranty was expired, that it was a six-month warranty (which is bullshit) and tried to sell me a two-year Apple Care plan. I said no, the warranty is one year and I didn't want Apple Care.

So then she tells me, yes, it's a one-year plan for online support, not for phone support. I didn't see anything about that in the warranty, and I told her the only reason I was calling was because the website didn't work. So she told me she could have it sent in for repair, but it would cost $30 for shipping & handling. I said that was fine. She again went into sales pitch about Apple Care which I said I had no interest in.

She then put me on hold for 10 more minutes (after originally being on hold twice that long) to "check" something. She then started to process the claim & told me a box would be sent to my house in 48 hours & I gave her my address. She then said she was having an issue with the serial number in the computer & that she would have to get back to me and hung up. She never took my phone number.

I then called back to try to speak with someone slightly more competent, waited another 15 minutes & some jackass picks up the phone doing the "pinched-nose-nasal-voice" thing---"Hello, this is Robert, can I start with your first name". I answered him and even spelled it out. His answer--"Hello, this is Robert, can I start with your first name". I repeated it, thinking he might not have heard me. Again he says -"Hello, this is Robert, can I start with your first name". So this time I just hung up on the fucking smart-ass.

So now the wait to see if I ever get the package. Sorry for the rant, but I don't know what the hell is going on with that company & I'm about ready to make "switch" back to PC.

jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Friday, 4 March 2005 22:01 (fifteen years ago) link

http://a.relaunch.focus.de/img/gen/F/V/HBFVO8VgWyC_Pxgen_rc_Ax216,180x216+18+0.jpg

WHAT DID HE EVER DO TO YOU??????????

IRATE MAMA (Dan Perry), Friday, 4 March 2005 22:05 (fifteen years ago) link

ha ha ha!

The Argunaut (sexyDancer), Friday, 4 March 2005 22:06 (fifteen years ago) link

Gwyn named her kid Apple?

Aaron A., Friday, 4 March 2005 22:07 (fifteen years ago) link

I had just as bad customer service when I called about an issue with my ipod. Plus, as Tom had ranted about on another thread, i found their OS has been going downhill over the last few years. I've been using Mac for about 7 years now and am starting to get really sick of their bullshit. To this day thinking about the awful customer "support" i endured last year makes me so angry i want to sucker punch the next apple employee I see.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Friday, 4 March 2005 22:09 (fifteen years ago) link

TRY CALLING MICROSOFFT FOR SUPPORT THX

cutty (mcutt), Friday, 4 March 2005 22:11 (fifteen years ago) link

pc companies aren't better tho. getting my hp fixed last fall was a nightmore.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 March 2005 22:11 (fifteen years ago) link

Gwyn named her kid Apple?

All too true.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 4 March 2005 22:11 (fifteen years ago) link

calling ILX for tech support works like a charm. :)

The Argunaut (sexyDancer), Friday, 4 March 2005 22:12 (fifteen years ago) link

The OS keeps getting better and better and they fixed our iBook well out of warranty for free, although my brother had some issues getting an LCD panel replaced. I've heard some tales of woe on the support front though. The OS is the best desktop OS by far, though.

Ed (dali), Friday, 4 March 2005 22:15 (fifteen years ago) link

haha i've decided that my next computer (which i have to buy this year) will be a mac because the few times i've dealt with apple tech support they've been nothing but helpful and responsive, which is way more than i can say for the no-name-pc-manufacturer jerkwads i'm dealing with right now.

jbr (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 4 March 2005 22:31 (fifteen years ago) link

xypost: why don't you have any interest in Apple Care? it seems to be what you need.

The Argunaut (sexyDancer), Friday, 4 March 2005 22:35 (fifteen years ago) link

Maybe he doesn't have $60 to spare?

Fish fingers all in a line (kenan), Friday, 4 March 2005 22:40 (fifteen years ago) link

good, smart jody

adam.r.l. (nordicskilla), Friday, 4 March 2005 22:41 (fifteen years ago) link

I sometimes wonder how Apple make any profit at all. For every computer they sell you, they seem to end up paying for two. The iBook Ed mentions used to be mine, and I was ready to throw it out because half of it wasn't working. It was also outside its guarantee period. But Ed and Suzy managed to get Apple to replace CD drive, keyboard, screen...

Apple replaced my new iBook's motherboard while I was in Japan. That's hundreds of dollars worth, at no charge to me. Of course, it shouldn't have failed within six months in the first place...

Momus (Momus), Friday, 4 March 2005 22:41 (fifteen years ago) link

i also immediately thought of gwentyh paltrow's child. how sad.

Miss Misery (thatgirl), Friday, 4 March 2005 22:42 (fifteen years ago) link

It's like they say, Love the product, hate the service.

ffirehorse (firehorse), Friday, 4 March 2005 22:42 (fifteen years ago) link

how much for ibook battery, 3-4 years old?

adam.r.l. (nordicskilla), Friday, 4 March 2005 22:42 (fifteen years ago) link

I sometimes wonder how Apple make any profit at all.

That's why they charge you double upfront!

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 4 March 2005 22:43 (fifteen years ago) link

Best decision I made computer wise was to buy my powerbook at John Lewis .: free two year extended warranty. Extended warranties/apple care are well worth it where laptops are concerned.

Ed (dali), Friday, 4 March 2005 22:43 (fifteen years ago) link

there's always the radio
*makes 'what me worry' gesture*

The Argunaut (sexyDancer), Friday, 4 March 2005 22:44 (fifteen years ago) link

xypost: why don't you have any interest in Apple Care? it seems to be what you need.

Because I don't believe in a company making you pay for a warantee that should be offered for free upfront. I was under the impression that a one-year warantee meant that if something goes wrong in the first year, they actually fix the thing, not put you on the phone with several douchebags who are trying to sell you additional warantees.

Shit, when the first warantee doesn't seem to work, why would I want to buy another one?

jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Friday, 4 March 2005 23:53 (fifteen years ago) link

I had problems with the Apple Store when I tried to order my iPod from them, but when I cancelled the order, they were very good about it. My iBook had one of the faulty logic boards, and they replaced it several times for free, in addition to doing some repairs which were apparently not supposed to be free. So I'm content with them.

But it does sound like you have a problem with your serial number, Jay.

Casuistry (Chris P), Saturday, 5 March 2005 00:00 (fifteen years ago) link

his problem with the serial number is that he probably never registered the durned thing.

cutty (mcutt), Saturday, 5 March 2005 00:06 (fifteen years ago) link

i also had a problem with entering my ipod's serial number on the website. but what happened to me was that i bought a "pre-owned" ipod from the apple store and when the original owner returned it the store, that serial number apparently got, um, voided or something. no matter; i went back to the apple store and the genius bar genius was happy to solve my problem.

jbr (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 5 March 2005 00:16 (fifteen years ago) link

there's nothing more retarded i can think of, business-wise, than how the genius bar was closed for like 2 weeks before christmas this past year. good job, jobs! way to alienate your clientele!

tho when i was waiting there, i did see todd oldham.

hstencil (hstencil), Saturday, 5 March 2005 00:20 (fifteen years ago) link

yeah, the genius bar in Seattle closed during Christmas shopping mayhem. Major bummer. I have had nothing but good luck to this point with Apple. They've sent me 3 replacement remotes for my iPod, all at no cost to me, without me proving my others were damaged. Simple online form. Apple Care is essential for any Apple purchase. They recently replaced my iPod with a new one in about 20 minutes time at the Genius bar. Neither the remotes or iPod should have busted in the first place, but they did replace them with ease and very little questioning.

biznotic, Saturday, 5 March 2005 02:10 (fifteen years ago) link

ed OTM, about john lewis's one year warranty extension.

RJG (RJG), Saturday, 5 March 2005 02:36 (fifteen years ago) link

All apple products have a one year warranty and 90 day tech support, pretty standard in the computer industry. You want more, pay for more.

Ed (dali), Saturday, 5 March 2005 06:51 (fifteen years ago) link

I have gotten to the point where I just equate Apple with Audi and Volkswagen, great product, love it when it works, when it breaks, fuck yourself.

TOMBOT, Saturday, 5 March 2005 20:08 (fifteen years ago) link

Try getting your $300 back after paying for a repair they are now refunding everyone for (ibook logic board). Grrr. It pisses me off because at the time of my problems, they acted as if I was the only person encountering such difficulties, in spite of my reading otherwise on the internets. They are now claiming the repair that took them two tries to fix is not in their records.

amandasc, Saturday, 5 March 2005 20:38 (fifteen years ago) link

Most American PC manufacturers include 1 year of tech support.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Saturday, 5 March 2005 22:12 (fifteen years ago) link

As a volkswagen driver with a dodgy fuel pump I feel that analogy.

Ed (dali), Saturday, 5 March 2005 22:21 (fifteen years ago) link

I've been using APPLE computers since 1985 and have never had a problem.

Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 6 March 2005 21:02 (fifteen years ago) link

Exactly what Orbit said. And what Ed said regarding OSX--it's by far the best desktop OS, and nothing comes close.

My tech experience with Apple has been sensational. A friend called me today to tell me that his mini iPod was replaced in less than five business days, and he also got the new generation mini in place of his old one that had died. No charge.

I've dealt with Dell and Gateway and their CSRs are no better than Apple's. HPs can blow me, they've sucked.

don weiner, Sunday, 6 March 2005 23:22 (fifteen years ago) link

whoever has been using Apples since whenever and loves it can eat a dick.

the desktop I have at work running XP has been up and alive for 2 years with barely any reboots. It does everything I want it to do, does it quickly, and I can navigate painlessly without ever touching the mouse if I feel like it.

I was raised on Apple and my first job was DTP on a Mac, followed by audio editing on a Mac, more DTP, and so on. OS 7+ had more than its share of problems and stupid quirks but the hardware was rock solid and at least its behavior was predictable.

Since getting my latest-edition powerbook I've put it through little more than I ever tried to do with my old OS

TOMBOT, Monday, 14 March 2005 17:18 (fifteen years ago) link

Oh weird that post got completely chopped in half.

...OS

TOMBOT, Monday, 14 March 2005 17:21 (fifteen years ago) link

Fuck it.
Keeps mistaking the rest of my post for an HTML statement. Now it's lost to the ether. All computers are stupid and worthless, except that old LC & Quadra we had running 6.0.7 - 7.7, those were pretty stable builds as I recall.

My old Quadra used to have a TV Tuner in it and be able to do image captures from live cable broadcasts, then I could import them into my cheap, incredibly easy to use paint program and do whatever with them. I believe it cost approximately half of what my laptop did! My laptop lets me chat and surf the internet. And rip CDs.

TOMBOT, Monday, 14 March 2005 17:25 (fifteen years ago) link

HALCYON DAYS
http://oit.uta.edu/desktop/energystar/mac_files/OS_7_Control_Panels.JPG

TOMBOT, Monday, 14 March 2005 17:49 (fifteen years ago) link

In case anyone is wondering what this is all about, I have had "issues" with my laptop since purchasing it (A YEAR AGO, THINGS THAT COST $2000 SHOULDN'T DIE IN A YEAR), mainly that if I put it to sleep via either apple menu->sleep or by shutting the cover, I've got no better than a 50-50 chance the fucker will wake up again.

Well today it decided it wasn't going to wake up again, ever, as I'm being greeted with a totally white screen.

What's funny is that like doing searches on my own to try to figure out wtf this computer is doing right now (I mean not even the sad face x-eye Mac or the question mark Mac! NOTHING AT ALL! WHITE SCREEN! I know how to handle the other things!), everyone who is reporting similar issues to me is like bitching about how they have all this important blah blah blah they were doing with the Mac prior hand. Is it that no one who has this failure who is only using their Mac for chat, porn, and MP3s can be bothered to get in on the discussions, or is it because they don't die if that's all you use it for? Because yeah, it seems like my sleep problem increases tenfold whenever I've been using my iBook more for writing or photo work. If all I've done on the damn thing is use iChat for two weeks, no problems whatsoever with starting it up, back when it, uh, started up.

What does this imply??? Is there like some inherent instability in the majority of the "native" programs that come bundled with OSX or is this just really fucked up coincidence?

Also it seems that this particular issue with the iBook G3 was so bad they threw the whole "your warranty is expired, give us $500" shenanigans out the window, and searching on this same issue with "Powerbook" has not given me the same results--ARE IBOOKS PIECES OF SHIT? wtf?

Allyzay, Monday, 14 March 2005 17:59 (fifteen years ago) link

As an aside, I noted that my computer was purchased a year ago, actually a year and 3 weeks, making it out of warranty now. Every. Single. Computer. I. Have. Ever. Owned.* Has. Done. This. Do they design computers to die at warranty, in general? Because it is not just me who has reported this ridiculous situation going on, and I'm starting to think that if this is going to be the case, wasting my money on a pricey computer with only a single year warranty is not worth the hassle, since all other brands have 3-4 year standard warranties, so at least I'll get 3 years out of it, instead of 1, before this message will self-destruct.

*with the exception of my ancient PowerMac that I had when I was 14-15-16, which only died because my sister is a dick.

I am pretty close to deciding to become the female Punisher, except murdering computer firms, instead of bad guys.

Allyzay, Monday, 14 March 2005 18:02 (fifteen years ago) link

although the best customer service story I have ever been witness to was in an Apple store, when our friend J0sh had a bunch of seemingly sensible questions about using X type of Mac as a server, they made sense to the rest of us, and the sales guy just blurted at him "YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT"

And then kind of ran away????

That was pretty funny.

Allyzay, Monday, 14 March 2005 18:10 (fifteen years ago) link

I have a friend who just got a job repairing computers at Tekserve. He just started last week so I'm leery about hitting him up for favors, but the hitting up will be happening, oh yes it will. I would be happy to serve as an intermediate hitter-upper for your computer, Ally.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 March 2005 18:24 (fifteen years ago) link

I used to get the sleeping-no-wakey-wakey problem when I was using the last Photoshop build (pre-CS or whatever the newest is called) fairly heavily, but it fixed itself at some point. I have no idea what was going on or how/why it stopped happening.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Monday, 14 March 2005 18:41 (fifteen years ago) link

we just set up a netgear router modem! YfriggingAfriggingY!

nathalie barefoot in the head (stevie nixed), Monday, 14 March 2005 18:46 (fifteen years ago) link

I am looking over the system 7 window I posted up above and trying to figure out what they've improved since then! Help!

TOMBOT, Monday, 14 March 2005 18:47 (fifteen years ago) link

The graphics. If you have to ask, you're obv. a Windows person.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Monday, 14 March 2005 18:49 (fifteen years ago) link

graphics?

RJG (RJG), Monday, 14 March 2005 18:50 (fifteen years ago) link

I prefer the trash and HD icons in that window to the ones in OS X.

TOMBOT, Monday, 14 March 2005 18:54 (fifteen years ago) link

Tracer I would love your assistance but unfortunately I am currently in Washington DC, about 300 miles away from my last-ditch-savior-plan OSX disks (safe boot and fsck have already failed, for anyone interested) and probably the same distance away from Tekserve :(

If Apple store in Clarendon cannot do anything for me worthwhile like, I will be coming back up to NYC and hitting u up on the favor, though. I like desperately, desperately need this to work ASAP.

Graphics are nonsense; I had that system and just customized the entire thing with graphics of my choice. Of my choice, since I was like 14 at the time, was like a bunch of lame ass Monty Python cartoons and/or Madonna album covers but what the fuck ever.

Allyzay, Monday, 14 March 2005 19:06 (fifteen years ago) link

No, I know. It's a bullshit reason, but Appleheads go on and on about it. "The design!" I think design is great and all, but Apple is not the end-all, be-all of it. My XP desktop is way more customizable than this OS X desktop.

You know what else? This lamp-shaped iMac is stupid. There's no reason the screen needs to be this adjustable, and in fact with an LCD screen that has color-shifting problems, it's best if it doesn't move at all. It's only to make the computer more anthropomorphic, more... cute. So people will fall in love with the computer like it's a kitten. Crafty to the point of being kinda evil.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Monday, 14 March 2005 19:10 (fifteen years ago) link

If I'm supposed to relate to my computer as if its a kitten, Apple is doing a VERY VERY BAD JOB because I have never, in my life, wanted to punt a kitten out the window and then scream GOOOOAAAAAAAAL when it smashes a window across the street and subsequently busts into 10,000 pieces.

I have thought, on a few occasions, that OS7/8/9's desktop was more customizable than OSX's.

Maybe they are trying too hard to make things look pretty or cute and not spending enough time on making things sensible and working, anymore.

Allyzay, Monday, 14 March 2005 19:12 (fifteen years ago) link

Yeah, that would be the case, I think.

When I've been put off the G5 iMac as my next desktop computer because I hear too many stories about the power supply overheating thanks to them shoving everything in a thin white IKEA slab, it's time to reconsider the role "award-winning design" plays in your product development.

I kind of hate the OS X desktop. I have a menu bar, and a hard drive icon. I don't want a fucking DOCK, I never asked for a fucking DOCK, the whole rest of the computing world gets by without a DOCK. take that shit away and let me pick my own fonts. Dickholes.

TOMBOT, Monday, 14 March 2005 19:18 (fifteen years ago) link

uh is there any way to manually eject cds from an iBook.

allyzay, Monday, 14 March 2005 19:22 (fifteen years ago) link

This lamp-shaped iMac is stupid. There's no reason the screen needs to be this adjustable, and in fact with an LCD screen that has color-shifting problems, it's best if it doesn't move at all.

In an office where multiple people are using the same computer and there's limited desk space the lamp iMacs have been terrific.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Monday, 14 March 2005 19:27 (fifteen years ago) link

uh is there any way to manually eject cds from an iBook.

Hold down the trackpad button on startup.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Monday, 14 March 2005 19:28 (fifteen years ago) link

Thank you!

I will be at a loss forever, though, as to why pressing F12 (the eject button) worked to eject The Marriage of Maria Braun not ten minutes earlier, but refused to work just now.

Any suggestions on the other stuff, besides setting the thing on fire?

Allyzay, Monday, 14 March 2005 19:30 (fifteen years ago) link

I'd rather have crap graphics and cheesy icons than a bogged-down-prone OS that consumes copious amounts of memory.

massive xpost

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 14 March 2005 19:33 (fifteen years ago) link

I use DragThing, I love it. I've got operating kind of like the OS8/9 pop-up folder windows.

Font management/selection/preview is atrocious in OS X. I got Suitcase but all that does is move fonts into and out of your Font folder, rather than you going and doing it yourself. Uh alright thanks I guess.

You know what I've never understood about computers? Why should anyone have to "save" anything, ever? Why isn't it just all on there all the time? I spent 3 hours working on some document, you tool, you think I don't want to "save" it? I mean really now.

xpost: you could try shooting it.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 March 2005 19:34 (fifteen years ago) link

I mean you've got a white screen what the hell else can you do? Aside from attaching it to a $25 external monitor, I mean.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 March 2005 19:37 (fifteen years ago) link

Any suggestions on the other stuff, besides setting the thing on fire?

Download Yasu, let it run everything.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Monday, 14 March 2005 19:42 (fifteen years ago) link

My wife's iBook has the not-starting-up problem and only now seems to have a half-hour of battery power at full charge. meanwhile my powerbook is now a year old and looks and works like a dream.

just adam (nordicskilla), Monday, 14 March 2005 19:43 (fifteen years ago) link

A month or two ago I had a huge hard-on for a Powerbook. Now I'm starting to feel like I'd be just as well off with this sexy thing:

http://www.laptops4me.com/images/pict/SNY-TR3AP1_LG.jpg

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Monday, 14 March 2005 19:47 (fifteen years ago) link

I don't like those. My friend Sh4hr14r has one and he just uses it to watch DVDs.

just adam (nordicskilla), Monday, 14 March 2005 19:48 (fifteen years ago) link

The speakers are in a logical place. This makes me happy.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Monday, 14 March 2005 19:51 (fifteen years ago) link

Downloading programs on computer that is dead?

And yeah, Tracer, I'm kind of hoping that this is a display issue somehow, not a computer-itself issue, but everything I'm reading indicates this is not the case. :(

Allyzay, Monday, 14 March 2005 20:18 (fifteen years ago) link

Downloading programs on computer that is dead?

I didn't notice the all-white screen hassle upthread. Did you try booting into open firmware and reseting the NVRAM?

(cmd-opt-o-f on bootup, then type "reset-nvram" "set-defaults" "reset-all" )

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Monday, 14 March 2005 20:29 (fifteen years ago) link

nuffink at all :( It won't do anything besides the white screen, no matter what I try to boot with.

so I can just walk into the apple store with this thing and someone will help me out?

Allyzay, Monday, 14 March 2005 20:54 (fifteen years ago) link

Walk into the Apple store with that thing and your checkbook.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Monday, 14 March 2005 20:56 (fifteen years ago) link

I would try that but seeing as most of the people at the Apple store will be salesfolx rather than techies, I don't know if that will help you (although talking about your issues in a really loud voice next to the iBook section while people are browsing for a new machine could work wonders for you).

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 14 March 2005 20:57 (fifteen years ago) link

It seems like people have luck on the phone sometimes too, Momus is full of talk about how the Apple people give him all kinds of fixer-uppers out of warranty.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 March 2005 20:59 (fifteen years ago) link

Oh dear, I really want to make a completely mean-spirited joke about telephone fellatio but for some reason I feel bad doing so (so I'll just imply it and half-assed assuage my guilt, haha).

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 14 March 2005 21:00 (fifteen years ago) link

"If you fix my computer I will allow you to receive my C on your Ts k thx."

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 March 2005 21:05 (fifteen years ago) link

The phone support lines really are about the fine art of oral persuasion. And like my mom says, if you get someone who's just not playing along with you, hang up and call back.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 March 2005 21:10 (fifteen years ago) link

ally, you could always did what i did with my last dvd player, just take it apart piece by piece until i could just life the dvd out of there, and then put it back together.

xpost

tracer otm. i often have totally differing degrees of success w/customer service if i just take a different approach.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 14 March 2005 21:15 (fifteen years ago) link

just LIFT the dvd out of there

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 14 March 2005 21:16 (fifteen years ago) link

I do this all the time with tech support. Person number one and two maybe will give you the party line about how they don't support this or that, which really just means they don't know. But person three or four will be someone who knows exactly how to fix your problem, and will be happy to tell you how.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Monday, 14 March 2005 21:23 (fifteen years ago) link

I really really like the flat look of System 7, by the way. I just like flat graphics in general, from web pages to cartoons. Yay gifs, boo jpgs! Even as early as System 8 they'd started introducing this roundy shadowy stuff and I suppose it's alright, and it certainly looks "nice", but I find icons much harder to identify quickly, especially at a small size. It would be so awesome if there were a way to make OS X go to some "barebones" mode where all the icons were rendered as flat and actually iconic, rather than some photorealistic hoonja doonja. I know there are mods you can get, but rather than another layer of cruft on the top, it would be neat to have something deep into the system that could be got to (reawakened?) by scraping away all that aqua stuff. I mean honestly, opening and closing files, how glamorous does it need to be. Save the processing power and feathered edges for the actual filez d00dz.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 March 2005 21:33 (fifteen years ago) link

I mean honestly, opening and closing files, how glamorous does it need to be.

I like a little glitz. The trouble with OS X is that it's not likely to be *your* glitz, just theirs, which is arrogant on Apple's part (shockah!). Like Tom says, you can't even change the system font. I don't much care for Lucida Grande, but guess what? Apple likes it, so I get to stare at it every day for several hours.

I do want my desktop to be prtyy though, since I spend so much time there. It's like my apartment -- in a way it's even more personal. I mean honestly, cooking and watching TV and sleeping, how glamorous does it need to be?

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Monday, 14 March 2005 21:40 (fifteen years ago) link

I don't want anti-aliased feathered semi-transparent pans if my food takes twice as long to cook!

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 March 2005 21:42 (fifteen years ago) link

Yeah. Which is why it's criminal that they sell people computers with OS X and 256Mb of RAM.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Monday, 14 March 2005 21:44 (fifteen years ago) link

Seriously, after doing all the updates, my system really has finally decided to slow way the fuck down and at this point it's a toss-up between going into debt for a new machine or just tossing the new system completely and going back to OS9. Which is something I actually could do, none of my main apps are OS X-only. Photoshop's still carbon, BBedit, Eudora, web browsing. I bet it'll feel like getting a brand new computer!

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 March 2005 21:45 (fifteen years ago) link

When I've been put off the G5 iMac as my next desktop computer because I hear too many stories about the power supply overheating thanks to them shoving everything in a thin white IKEA slab, it's time to reconsider the role "award-winning design" plays in your product development.

This is only for particular models. I looked it up before buying a G5. I don't have any problems (yet).

This lamp-shaped iMac is stupid. There's no reason the screen needs to be this adjustable, and in fact with an LCD screen that has color-shifting problems, it's best if it doesn't move at all.

Well, no, I don't think so. In fact I have a hard adapting to the non-moveable G5. :-(

nathalie barefoot in the head (stevie nixed), Monday, 14 March 2005 22:00 (fifteen years ago) link

Another thing I miss about the old OS is being able to click the top tab on a window and have it reduced to just a bar (not sure what the technical name is for that feature). Sometimes I have to work with a lot of files and it's just so much easier than dealing with all those windows in the dock.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 14 March 2005 22:07 (fifteen years ago) link

http://www.unsanity.com/haxies/wsx/

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 March 2005 22:12 (fifteen years ago) link

We are in the Apple Store Clarendon right now.
Salesduder told Ally should try tomorrow and get here 5 minutes or so before the "Genius Bar" opens to get in the front of the line, because apparently some days (like yesterday) there's about 40 people in line for service/support.
He's being really nice but this is so gay.
iBook restore CD didn't work, now he's trying something else.
DUDE THE MONITOR AIN'T WORKING.
PLUG IT IN TO SOMETHING ELSE.
NOT LIKE YOU DON'T HAVE A SPARE LCD FIVE FEET AWAY FROM YOU + ENOUGH CABLES TO LASSO HALF OF ARLINGTON IN THIS BITCH.

TOMBOT, Monday, 14 March 2005 22:15 (fifteen years ago) link

Well that didn't work either! Surprise.
She got a little card though. "They'll definitely b able to figure out what's going on with it when you come in tomorrow, here is a little card."
Bleargh.

TOMBOT, Monday, 14 March 2005 22:18 (fifteen years ago) link

Have you suggested plugging the iBook into a spare monitor (perhaps while pointing a gun at his nuts)?

(xpost oh never mind, you got a card, PROBLEM SOLVED)

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 14 March 2005 22:20 (fifteen years ago) link

on all computers in store:

10 PRINT "SALESDUDER IS A SCSI DONGLE  "
20 GOTO 10

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 March 2005 22:23 (fifteen years ago) link

That may have been the geekiest thing I have ever written.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 March 2005 22:59 (fifteen years ago) link

Haha

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 14 March 2005 23:00 (fifteen years ago) link

I even included extra spaces before the closing quote, to create a dizzying diagonal wrap-around effect.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 March 2005 23:16 (fifteen years ago) link

OK well the guy was really nice and not a tech (the techs were "too busy" for me today) so I just played nice with him, he seemed like an alright dude and he really did try to help, he brought out all kinds of disks and tried rebooting about 8 different ways that I already tried, so I just went with it. Tomorrow there will be hell to pay at the Apple store, since if I'm estimating my repairs correctly, they come to about half the price of a fucking POWERBOOK with their recent price drops. And it WAS their employee who pointed out, in case I hadn't seen it, the whole issue with basically the entire G3 iBook line being RECALLED for the exact same problem everyone seems to be having with the iBook. Oh so you're still selling lemons? Guess who isn't paying for your fucking repairs. Guess you should've taken me yesterday, when I was slightly more lenient and desperate. Assholes!

Haha wtfever I just feel like s crewing them cos I hate their OSX.

I had something else to say but I forgot so instead I'll say that I passed BASIC class by having some dorky boy do all my work. TRACER HAND LOOKIN AT YOU.

Allyzay, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 03:59 (fifteen years ago) link

OH Dan--I didn't HAVE to park next to the iBooks--salesduder did it for me!!!

Allyzay, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 03:59 (fifteen years ago) link

Wow, Tracer, thanks. i owe you one!

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 04:45 (fifteen years ago) link

NB Clarendon is the same Apple Store location I brought my PB into over a year ago after spilling a glass of port wine into (there's some thread about this already) and techduder was like "that's probably the most expensive bottle of wine you've ever opened." As commented on previously by me, I should have just said right then WOW THEY PAY YOU TO BE A DICKFACER?!?!? but I didn't because I was still depressed at the massive waste of life I had incurred upon myself. Hopefully that guy has found work with the feds since then and Ally will have better luck tomorrow. Cheers!

TOMBOT, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 04:59 (fifteen years ago) link

ALSO: get InVisibles from versiontracker if you have the time, it makes the Finder reveal all your standard BSD/Unix directories and files that they purposefully obscure "because most users will never need to access them" COCKLUGERS.

TOMBOT, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 05:01 (fifteen years ago) link

this is making me hate Apple, and I haven't even had a problem with mine in ages.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 05:22 (fifteen years ago) link

Well you just jinxed it.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 05:24 (fifteen years ago) link

LESSONS:

A) There was NO RECORD that I had previously called Apple customer support or taken my computer into a store with any complaints, ever, prior to my warranty expiring, which would've made a difference, apparently. Lesson 1: physically bring the computer to an Apple store and ask for proof that they have actually entered your complaint into the system.
B) The only people who showed up at the Genius Bar (which was a good amount of people--the queue was up to 4pm within an hour of the store opening) had iBooks, iMacs and the ubiquitous iPod battery problem. Lesson 2: try to avoid purchasing any Apple product beginning with cutesy "i" and focus on those beginning with fascist "Power".*
C) The overworked tech (there was one dude there, the second dude, also nice, was an hour and a half late to work) was very nice about the whole thing, but would not stop staring at my boobs. Lesson 3: bring boobs to Apple store.
D) After lengthy discussion of all the things I had done to the computer and my own self diagnosis and "I think this is what you need to do" being totally correct, plus thrown in comments about how awful G3s were and how this is doing the same thing, guy was even more sympathetic to my problems. Lesson 4: Do some research, if you can get online, before going into Apple Store.

RESULT:
They knocked down price of fixing computer significantly despite my lack of warranty and the fact that it looks like a few v. pricey components need to be replaced. The actual computer itself is in perfect condition and is loading just fine but there's something seriously wrong with something in the Logic board, basically, that means the connection to the LCD is dead and my computer has wakey-wakey issues. Problem being that I haven't backed up my data in about a year. They offered to do so for me--but it would've taken an additional week on top of the 7-10 business days EST for computer repair because of how backed up they are in Clarendon. Instead I ended up purchasing the external hard drive Tom's been "meaning to get" for a few months now and the guys did it for me, while I stood there, for free. Well for free plus the $179 for the drive. In total, this is going to cost about $400 to fix. Add the price of later adding an Airport Extreme card (one of the reasons I picked an iBook over a Powerbook was that part of the price difference was the optional Airport card in iBook versus mandatory in Powerbook--at the time, I had no foreseeable need for wireless access), plus this repair, and I could've bought Tom's PowerBook G4 + upped the RAM on it on purchase.

Final Lesson: Just pick the most expensive thing you can find on purchases like this because you get what you pay for.

FIN.

* not quite FIN, errr Tom I just noticed there is something v. off about your LCD as well and now I am PARANOID to use yr computer, more so than normal.

Allyzay, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:18 (fifteen years ago) link

Wait! I forgot the one powerbook dude. He had like banged it and the hinge was broken and the metal was starting to like peel off somehow.

I was still jealous of him, him and his horribly scarred computer.

Allyzay, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:21 (fifteen years ago) link

Tom I just noticed there is something v. off about your LCD as well

Pour some wine on it.

TOMBOT, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:22 (fifteen years ago) link

Well, I mean, have you ever noticed something...odd about it? Like when you take your hands off the wrist rest?

Allyzay, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:24 (fifteen years ago) link

http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?t=35256

10.3.8 sucks a dick

TOMBOT, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:34 (fifteen years ago) link

MAYBE IT IS ME.

MAYBE I AM THE MAC LCD DISPLAY KILLER.

XPOST OH IT'S JUST A COMPLETELY RETARDED "FEATURE" NEVER MIND I FEEL BETTER NOW, ABOUT MYSELF ONLY THOUGH NOT ABOUT THE WORLD IN GENERAL.

In Craig's words, which I am going to repeat as often as it takes for people to stop inventing useless features: "A Bluetooth extention that opens my car windows for me? Who the fuck wants that? Call me when you invent a Bluetooth extention that drives my drunk ass home after a night out, fucking idiots!"

Allyzay, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:35 (fifteen years ago) link

HOW DO YOU LIVE WITH THIS DIMMING AND BRIGHTENING GOING ON EVERY 30 SECONDS!!! HOW DO YOU LIVE!!!

Allyzay, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:36 (fifteen years ago) link

OK it's fixed, I'm not going to lose my mind when I borrow this computer, whew.

Allyzay, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:37 (fifteen years ago) link

Hello, everyone, welcome to my blog!

Allyzay, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:38 (fifteen years ago) link

Part XVII: In which Ally once again learns the true, dark meaning of the word "feature"

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:40 (fifteen years ago) link

I'm waiting for doctors to start calling horrible skin disorders or teeth misgrowths "features", that will be the day in which I kill everyone on the earth.

Now what I don't understand is why Apple has v. quietly invented an actually useful feature that seems only available on its most recent PowerBooks. Why don't they make a big fuss about their bloody new style trackpads that allow you to scroll mouse-style instead of clicky-style on webpages??? Why do they make this big deal about AMBIENT LIGHT DIMMING but not about scroll trackpads from 2313?

Allyzay, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:43 (fifteen years ago) link

Shh! Don't talk about fight club.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:44 (fifteen years ago) link

/etc
NO. FUCK /etc
WANT
http://oit.uta.edu/desktop/energystar/mac_files/OS_8_Control_Panels.JPG

TOMBOT, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:49 (fifteen years ago) link

hmm, maybe i will get one of those sexy vaios instead. hmm.

lychee mello (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:50 (fifteen years ago) link

I feel like looking at the Apple store online is like walking into some extremely fucked up backwards version of the end of the Wizard of Oz.

"I BESTOW UPON YOU AN INCREASINGLY COST INEFFICENT AND UGLY RANGE OF IPODS! YOU KIDS LIKE IPODS! THEY COME IN VOMIT GREEN AND PREGNANCY TEST STYLES, NOW! HEY! PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT USEFUL TRACK PAD BEHIND THE CURTAIN! PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE AWESOME WIZARD! LOOK AT THE OLD MAN WITH THE COMPUTER THAT RESEMBLES THAT CAT TOY THAT IS MADE OUT OF A SPRINGY TUBE WITH A FUZZY BALL ON THE TOP! CLOSE THAT CURTAIN!"

Seriously what the fuck, at what point did these people jump the shark?

Allyzay, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:51 (fifteen years ago) link

xpost They're cute, ain't they?

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:51 (fifteen years ago) link

xpost again ...And ask us about our ass-fucking-expensive non-standard warranty!

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:52 (fifteen years ago) link

and while we're all at it, fuck an ipod.

cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:53 (fifteen years ago) link

Do you all know what cat toy I'm talking about? That thing with the fuzzy base, and then a spring that kind of bends over and at the top is a fuzzy ball for the cat to beat up? Kind of like a Tim Burtony tether ball situation. There was a computer in there today, that looked like that, I swear to god.

xpost I've had no problems with my iPod, amazingly! I imagined it'd like disintegrate as soon as I tried to use it but my battery has held up amazingly well.

Allyzay, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:54 (fifteen years ago) link

PREGNANCY TEST

I missed that the first time. hahaha

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:55 (fifteen years ago) link

"Dead Rabbit Blue"

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:55 (fifteen years ago) link

Oh hey, kenan you might know this right--LCD monitors, is it normal for warranties to NOT cover fixing them if pixels go out? Like is it normal for the warranty to require the screen to be basically totally dead before they'll fix it? That struck me as really weird today, this girl brought in this enormous monitor she purchased for her graphic design firm and there were pixels, dead center, completely out, and the guy was kind of like "Well that's not actually a covered repair" which seemed really weird (she only bought it two months prior, she had her receipt with her).

Allyzay, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:58 (fifteen years ago) link

xpost They're cute, ain't they?

hotcha!

lychee mello (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:00 (fifteen years ago) link

"extensions manager"

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:00 (fifteen years ago) link

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/display/20030319/images/image6.gif

TOMBOT, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:01 (fifteen years ago) link

Ha ha. I'm picturing an ipod that doubles as a pregnancy test.
Negative = KC & the Sunshine Band - "Celebrate"
Positive = Britney Spears - "Oops I Did it Again"

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:07 (fifteen years ago) link

http://www.petitiononline.com/macos8x/petition.html

TOMBOT, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:25 (fifteen years ago) link

http://mcosre.sourceforge.net/

suzy (suzy), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:48 (fifteen years ago) link

Ed not suzy.

ihttp://mcosre.sourceforge.net/screenshots/x_classic.gif

I like OSX but it is orphaning older machines too quickly and Apple's build quality has slipped a great deal recently.

Ed (dali), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:54 (fifteen years ago) link

http://mcosre.sourceforge.net/screenshots/x_classic.gif

Ed (dali), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:55 (fifteen years ago) link

nobody pee on the ipod shuffle, repairs for such not covered by apple

chr vita, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 21:53 (fifteen years ago) link

what do you mean by "build quality," ed?

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 04:48 (fifteen years ago) link

I mean, that Apple don't build Laptops as well as they used to. I've heard a lot of stories about stuff failing within the first two years of use recently.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 05:46 (fifteen years ago) link

Yeah, one of the things about Apple, one of the things you assume you're paying for when you pay damn near twice what you would for a comparable PC, is hardware that lasts for-fucking-ever. It's not unusual for an Apple to last through seven or eight years of daily use. Or... didn't used to be. I have a color Mac Classic, circa 1993, that as far as I know still works. I'm not sure what one would do with it, esp. as it only has a 14.4 modem, but it works.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 06:04 (fifteen years ago) link

Had, should read. I gave it to a roomate a couple years ago. Point is, I would not be at all surprised if you could still look at all my old porn on it.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 06:05 (fifteen years ago) link

Oh, shit. This is what I get for looking things up.

There is something of a cult following for the Color Classic. They are quite rare on the used market -- and some users have managed to hack in 68040 boards and even G3 upgrades into the smallest color Macintosh.

Shit! Why did I give this away? Why?

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 06:11 (fifteen years ago) link

I *still* use my Pismo Powerbook for e-mail and playing out live. When it does die I'll be very upset, as it's the best computer I've ever owned. Never given me a problem. Can't say the same for a few friends whose iBooks and TiPowerbooks have become fairly worthless in less time than I've owned my PBook.

Jay Vee (Manon_70), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 06:14 (fifteen years ago) link

i dunno, my 1998 wall street powerbook had a lot of fucking hardware problems.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 06:21 (fifteen years ago) link

Your results may vary. I'm just saying, for a long long time it wasn't uncommon for them to run forever without a glitch. Not universal, but not uncommon.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 06:22 (fifteen years ago) link

Which may still be the case, for all I know! The "I hate Apple" thread is probably not the best place on the internet to get all your Apple information.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 06:23 (fifteen years ago) link

mmm... I do see a trend, though. A disturbance in the force.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 06:24 (fifteen years ago) link

I still like Apple, nonetheless.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 06:30 (fifteen years ago) link

when will thinkpads have silver brushed metal cases?

vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 06:36 (fifteen years ago) link

It seems as though 99.99999% of the "fuses that blow" are to do with the LCD screenZ0r, which raises to this observer the distinct possibility that humans are not meant to be teaching little crystals to dance on their points. If one recalls the crystal's prodigious reputation for mysticism and its facility at keeping time, it is tempting to draw any conclusion other than the most insensibly horrible inevitability, the dawning dread of which is at first too umentionable to contemplate: the crystals are communicating with each other, they have access to our alarm clocks, and are simply watching and waiting, toying with us, before unleashing an unprecedented productivity loss as the world sleeps til noon. THE CRYSTALS ARE ALIVE, BLAST YOU. In any case, my crystals pout on me in the summer, they start sulking after half an hour or so and won't get turned on no matter what I do. You'd think air conditioning would help but it doesn't. It's seasonal, for some reason.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 06:54 (fifteen years ago) link

My colleague with an iMac G3 maintains that Macs are more reliable, easier to use and all round better than PCs.

Perhaps that why he calls it 'bastard' and 'oh you motherfucker' so often?

mei (mei), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 12:41 (fifteen years ago) link

Apple's laptop price/performance ratio is now more than competitive with other PC manufacturers. The idea that you pay some kind of premium price where A is the cost of an x86 system of comparable specifications and the Macintosh is A*2 is really old hat at this point.

Also this is secondhand information, but I would suggest that the Sony VAIO line is just as "overpriced" performancewise and just as likely to have some kind of stupid hardware failure in the first two years as any Macintosh product.

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 16 March 2005 13:20 (fifteen years ago) link

I want a SparcBook.

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 13:40 (fifteen years ago) link

the Solaris 10 desktop is going to be SWEET.
a Sun laptop is kind of totally stupid though. Get a Nintendo DS instead.

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 16 March 2005 14:13 (fifteen years ago) link

When I was working on Solaris 2.8 or whatever the fuck it was I noticed how far ahead their X desktop was in terms of basic usability compared to early OS X Finder. Not nearly as pretty but I had a 3 button mouse and could make as many workspaces as I wanted. YO STEVE WHERE ARE MY SWITCHABLE WORKSPACES THAT I CAN ASSIGN DIFFERENT BACKGROUND GRAPHICS TOO AND NAME STUPID THINGS

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 16 March 2005 14:17 (fifteen years ago) link

OMG I miss Solaris now. WHERE IS MY OLD SPARC20????

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 14:49 (fifteen years ago) link


Dan, is your old SPARC20 UP YOUR ASS?

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 16 March 2005 14:58 (fifteen years ago) link

a Sun laptop is kind of totally stupid though. Get a Nintendo DS instead.

I wonder how long before Linux runs and is usable with WiFi on it. It'd be cool to netboot it and use it as an X terminal.

YO STEVE WHERE ARE MY SWITCHABLE WORKSPACES THAT I CAN ASSIGN DIFFERENT BACKGROUND GRAPHICS TOO AND NAME STUPID THINGS

There's actually an API for this in OS X that a ton of the free workspace switchers use. I saw one particularly good workspace switcher that added a folder named "Desktops" to your home directory, allowing each desktop to have items unique to it as well as the global "Desktop" items.

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 15:00 (fifteen years ago) link

CDE was pretty nice, but the integration level with X11 user applications was awful. My school has a number of CDE Sun boxes in the main computer lab on campus that only us UNIX Wizards with work accounts can use. Its too bad they don't have like ... a reasonable web browser on them. I think Mathematica is installed though. :D

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 15:02 (fifteen years ago) link

Fuck an X terminal, I want world-routable pictochat and packet voice comm apps. thing has touchscreen, 802.11 and microphone, do math.

but back on topic
I mean seriously though why do I have to go download an extra application to make all my files visible on OS X? On Solaris I just told it to stop hiding shit and boom, even .. becomes a clickable directory. THAT'S HOW IT WORKS STEVE

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 16 March 2005 15:10 (fifteen years ago) link

It's very ironic that Apple is making completely boneheaded Microsoft-circa-1992 moves her in terms of the usability/customizability of their operating system after intentionally moving towards the geek OS which pretty much lets you customize everything as long as you aren't scared of being a computer nerd.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 15:20 (fifteen years ago) link

LCD monitors, is it normal for warranties to NOT cover fixing them if pixels go out? Like is it normal for the warranty to require the screen to be basically totally dead before they'll fix it?

Most LCD monitor warranties require you to have a certain percentage of dead pixels before you can claim. It's usually about 5%, which is a hell of a lot given that one or two pixels in the centre of the screen can be damn offputting.

caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 15:27 (fifteen years ago) link

That can't be right. At least, I hope that's not right. A 1600x1200 monitor has 1,920,000 pixels. Five percent of that is 96,000. That's a lot of dead pixels. Can you imagine what that monitor would look like?

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 15:37 (fifteen years ago) link

How about doing a google search and finding the Tom's Hardware article that exhaustively discusses the various LCD replacement policies and ISO standards compliance of several major manufacturers? That sounds like a lot of fun.

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 16 March 2005 15:40 (fifteen years ago) link

If I wasn't too lazy, I'd hunt down the warranty on my own monitor when I get home and check what it actually says.

Thinking about it, I don't think it's a flat percentage figure - and there are separate limits for dead and miscoloured pixels.

The general point - that there have to be quite a lot of dead pixels before you can think about sending the monitor back - is true, though

(and 1600x1200 TFT monitors are still vv expensive, so might have different warranties - all the TFTs I've come across in the past year or so have been 1280x1024)

xpost: well, yes. But as i said, I'm too lazy to do, like, *research* myself.

(why do you think I've got a blog?)

caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 15:40 (fifteen years ago) link

It's very ironic that Apple is making completely boneheaded Microsoft-circa-1992 moves her in terms of the usability/customizability of their operating system after intentionally moving towards the geek OS which pretty much lets you customize everything as long as you aren't scared of being a computer nerd.

-- The Ghost of Dan Perry (djperr...) (webmail), March 16th, 2005 10:20 AM. (Dan Perry) (link)

What are you talking about specifically?

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 15:44 (fifteen years ago) link

caitlin are you implying that you have interns for your blog?

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 15:45 (fifteen years ago) link

No, I'm implying that I never do any research before posting anything :-)

caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 15:46 (fifteen years ago) link

Tom, I suggested X terminal because I don't know about the storage specifications for the DS. Hopefully someone will make a Hobbyist OS designed for the platform built on top of Linux or L4 or Mach or whatever....

But being able to acess X apps remotely would be cool. I wonder if the DS can do OpenGL.....

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 15:46 (fifteen years ago) link

I'm slightly talking out of my ass but mostly referring to the complaints upthread that in order to change certain system settings you have to download someone else's third-party tool as opposed using the correct csh/tcsh command (most of which I've now forgotten).

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 15:47 (fifteen years ago) link

Do you mean the hidden files in the finder thing? There's some commandline utility to unhide them, but I see no need to use it.

I don't manage /usr/local/bin using Finder.

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 15:49 (fifteen years ago) link

AND I think you can edit some plist or something to turn off all file hiding.

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 15:51 (fifteen years ago) link

Didn't you used to make fun of Macs, like a little while ago? Before you got one?

Dan, yr totally OTM.

This is the only thing on Mac's entire website that I can find that specifically references the LCD issue: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=22194 I was actually searching for the "solution" the tech offered the girl which involved "massaging" the affected area with a q-tip??? He said "the instructions on how to do it are all on the website though" and I cannot find them! Maybe he meant some other website, and not Apple's.

And yeah, I know, LCD's, they ain't gonna replace them for one or two pixels out, right? But it struck me odd that there wasn't like a 5% type of figure being thrown out, that the thing would have to be pretty much DEAD for them to even be willing to do anything at all.

Allyzay Dallas Multi-Pass (allyzay), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 15:53 (fifteen years ago) link

That's nice, Jon. The way I see it if I want to futz around in a *nix shell environment I can do it for fucking free.
I paid for this Finder and I want it to have some rudimentary administrative functionality. Like it used to.

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 16 March 2005 16:01 (fifteen years ago) link

Many of the usability complaints being thrown around here remind me of the usability complaints people had with Windows 3.1 back in the day.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 16:06 (fifteen years ago) link

Why do you wanna futz around with /usr/bin in Finder?

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 16:10 (fifteen years ago) link

I don't know Jon maybe I just like knowing I can do the same shit on The Greatest Fucking OS On Earth that I can do with, you know, fucking Fedora.

http://slagheap.net/etherspoof/
http://wiki.ethereal.com/CaptureSetup_2fCapturePrivileges
http://www.macguru.net/~frodo/Tripwire-osx.html

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 16 March 2005 16:24 (fifteen years ago) link

Are you mad that apple doesn't provide you with GUIs for all your favorite UNIX applications. Why should I have to open Terminal.app to use TCPdump?

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 16:47 (fifteen years ago) link

It is totally possible to generate OS X packages of any of those applicatons. Solution: you don't have to futz around.

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 16:48 (fifteen years ago) link

Would you like me to generate an OS X package of anything for you?

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 16:51 (fifteen years ago) link

Yes. I want you to generate an OS X package that makes it so I can configure and administer my machinery the way I want to without having to consult a fucking computer scientist.

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 16 March 2005 17:41 (fifteen years ago) link

Why don't you buy OS X Server?

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 17:49 (fifteen years ago) link

Why don't you lick my balls?

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 16 March 2005 17:51 (fifteen years ago) link

DAN PERRY IS OTM

JON WILLIAMS HAS NOT ANSWERED MY QUESTION

Jon, there is one problem with OSX that you never, ever, ever get on these threads and it leads you to argue with me or Tracer or Tom or basically anyone else who doesn't feel like having to open Terminal and remember UNIX commands and go through lengthy compile processes just to get control of their own goddamn computer that they paid $3000 for. You DON'T have to go through these hoops on Windows (post like 2000ish). You DIDN'T have to go through these hoops on older Mac OSes. You DON'T have to do this with other systems. If you WANTED to do that you could just FUCKING LOAD RED HAT INTO A MUCH CHEAPER MACHINE. That's the problem here, Jon, not whether or not you could, theoretically, go into UNIX and go through a series of commands to do xyz if you know quite a lot about UNIX. I know it's theoretically possible. I also know that I didn't have to do that on OS9 or on my PC to get it to do things I wanted to do. It shouldn't take me hours to make iTunes work the way I want it to, is what I'm saying. I shouldn't have to search the help function to figure out how to double space paragraphs in iWork. By making things "easier" they're making it harder.

Mac OSX basically has two modes: complete retard or computer scientist. For everyone who falls in between--which is the majority of what seems to be their market, old Mac users and switch over fairly-knowledgable Windows 2000/XP users--this is really super gay balls bullshit and I hope they change this little smugness phenomenon on their next OS because I'd really like a Powerbook or Powermac but quite frankly if I'm going to have to use UNIX commands and shit in a terminal app ANYWAY to get what I want done on a regular basis on the computer, I'm not going to buy a fucking Mac.

xpost because he's already spent $4000 on a computer that acts like a flakey tempermental coke head?

Allyzay Dallas Multi-Pass (allyzay), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 17:54 (fifteen years ago) link

I don't have any problems with my mac. I am one of those who falls in between. : /

cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 17:59 (fifteen years ago) link

no problems using it that is. I don't really use it for too much fancy tho really, I guess.

the build quality could be a whole lot better. but I have an uncle who works at apple so I get it all cheap (maintenance &.) fr free anyway < /flounces off, smug as all hell>

cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 18:00 (fifteen years ago) link

Tom, posting from Ally's computer doesn't make me listen to you.

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 18:01 (fifteen years ago) link

What UNIX commands are you needing to use? I only see them being needed for compiling bullshit or touching thing THAT YOU AREN'T SUPPOSED TO FUCK WIT

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 18:02 (fifteen years ago) link

give me one fucking example

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 18:06 (fifteen years ago) link

*insert GIF of dogs going at it here*

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 18:18 (fifteen years ago) link

rm
make

at least, off the top of my head, except oh wait Jon is going to turn all my programs into .pkgs for me and put them on .dmgs that are in .sits so it is all easy and doubleclickable

so just
rm

well maybe

rm
cd
ls

in case I want to look at the files in some of my directories BESIDES HOME for troubleshooting reasons but wait OS X always runs like a dream, troubleshooting isn't necessary! Invisible files should always stay invisible! You shouldn't be able to see that, it never needs to be touched!

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 16 March 2005 18:57 (fifteen years ago) link

wait, MAKE? You are not a typical end user, goodbye!

When have you had to "look somewhere" for "troubleshooting reasons"??

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 19:19 (fifteen years ago) link

who the fuck is a "typical end user??" I paid money, I want the thing to do what I ask it to without me having to jump over the nerds and through the bell laboratories, you seem to have not read Ally's post and my post and all the other posts where it has been noted that if you drop cash on an OS and hardware to run with it you might expect it all to at least have the same functionality out of the box as an OS that comes for free and runs on outmoded bargian basement x86 shit.

my mom? she uses the iTMS and iPhoto a lot. She your typical end user?

haha the one time I have had to investigate some invisible files to troubleshoot things was when I realized gcc was broken and I couldn't use CPAN. Oh and a week ago when the iShockXDriver flooded my logs and flung shit everywhere.

So I guess you're right, Jon, either I should devote myself to *nix and just get my next OS for free or I should just use iTunes and iPhoto and be a happy little imbecile with no interest in any functionality other than that Apple built in. I don't see what standpoint you're even arguing from besides rabid, drooling Apple fanboy. It doesn't matter though! you win! I use MAKE, I have no right to expect that Apple let me use the Finder the way EVERY OTHER *NIX WINDOW MANAGER WORKS.

Have you ever noticed how annoying female college students who are into Franz Ferdinand are, Jon?

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 16 March 2005 19:34 (fifteen years ago) link

you're getting angry! You confused Window Managers and File Managers.

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 19:49 (fifteen years ago) link

Tom, did you just call your mother an imbecile???

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 19:53 (fifteen years ago) link

No I think YOU confused MY GENITALS for YOUR HAT

xpost could very well have.

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 16 March 2005 19:53 (fifteen years ago) link

I blame crappy shareware for all your problems.

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 19:56 (fifteen years ago) link

http://www.factor-software.com/images/boom_3.png

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 16 March 2005 20:08 (fifteen years ago) link

Jon has raised throwing water onto an oil fire to an art form!

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 20:23 (fifteen years ago) link

the better version of this thread:
How dumb are mac users

http://users.bestweb.net/~jdowney/images/sad-mac.gif

Allyzay Dallas Multi-Pass (allyzay), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 21:27 (fifteen years ago) link

I like how no one has explained to me yet as to why I shouldn't have just built my own computer with parts given to me as gifts from good friend who is IT manager and just installed Linux on it instead of trying to use a stupid old Mac if it's going to make me have to use UNIX anyway to get it to the SAME FUNCTIONALITY LEVEL AS OS9.

except minus the easy change customizo fonts thing for your GUI :( :( :(

http://users.bestweb.net/~jdowney/images/sad-mac.gif

I have to admit that I kind of thought the end of Mac was a long, long time ago, long before iPods and iWork and iCute and all that. It was when they released the EMAC for the first time. That was when I realized I would soon not be happy with their developments.

THINGS WERE ALL BETTER, FOR ALL OF US, IN 1994.

Allyzay Dallas Multi-Pass (allyzay), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 21:33 (fifteen years ago) link

I mean my self-made computer with Linux on it would've cost approximately $800,000,000 less than the Mac :( :( :(

JON WHERE WERE YOU LAST YEAR, TO TELL ME ALL OF THIS SMUG NONSENSE???

For good measure
http://users.bestweb.net/~jdowney/images/sad-mac.gif

Allyzay Dallas Multi-Pass (allyzay), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 21:34 (fifteen years ago) link

I just ordered parts and am assembling my own windows PC. The parts are all warrantied individually by their respective manufacturers (they're often quite long, and some are lifetime!).

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 22:00 (fifteen years ago) link

They should have bought Be as well as NeXT.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 22:16 (fifteen years ago) link

Well, not for *all* of us, but I see your point. I'm still waiting for computers to get significantly better than they were ten years ago. They're smaller and faster now, but ten years ago you've have guessed that computers now would be somehow fundamentally better, that they would have learned to attack problems in new ways instead of throwing more processor speed and more fat graphics at the same ol' computing experience.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 22:20 (fifteen years ago) link

sorry, that was supposed to quote ally: THINGS WERE ALL BETTER, FOR ALL OF US, IN 1994.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 22:24 (fifteen years ago) link

if it's going to make me have to use UNIX anyway to get it to the SAME FUNCTIONALITY LEVEL AS OS9.

I ask you, what do you have to do to get same functionality level??????????????????

I hardly ever use my terminal application for anything other than ssh to real UNIX systems. My system runs (nearly!) flawlessly for months at a time.

When I ran a free UNIX, I had constant headaches with crappy x86 hardware and Linux. Package upgrades breaking things; OpenGL not workingp; blocking operations in graphical programs preventing GUI redraws, etc. Linux is SO FAR BEHIND OS X for normal desktop use.

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 22:27 (fifteen years ago) link

Bottom line: is *anyone* totally satisfied with their computer/OS ?

I think Ned Ludd was onto something.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 17 March 2005 00:26 (fifteen years ago) link

Then again, OS development has been in the shitter since CP/M

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 17 March 2005 00:26 (fifteen years ago) link

totally satisfied with my thinkpad except it's not silver. this thread has made me call off my powerbook buying plans.

vahid (vahid), Thursday, 17 March 2005 00:48 (fifteen years ago) link

(i run win 2000 NT)

vahid (vahid), Thursday, 17 March 2005 00:48 (fifteen years ago) link

Bottom line: is *anyone* totally satisfied with their computer/OS ?

yes

cutty (mcutt), Thursday, 17 March 2005 00:49 (fifteen years ago) link

vahid i think the Scientific Consensus here is that Powerbooks = good, and iBooks = teh bad. my PB screen acts up, true, but it's the very first G4 PB design ever made.. and you know the old thingie, "never get version 1.0 of anything". for what it's worth i'm still using it, and my upthread disgruntledness aside, it still works fine. i've gone from OS9 to X to X.3.6 without ever formatting anything!!

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 March 2005 01:37 (fifteen years ago) link

also Tiger is going to be approx. 10000000000x better than anything that runs on a Pentium. http://www.itconversations.com/shows/detail338.html

gah I've just done a complete 180.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 March 2005 02:07 (fifteen years ago) link

Spotlight search technology - oh wow the new Sherlock, exactly 10% more useful than the old sherlock. I have gmail = WHOCARES
multi-person video and audio conferencing with iChat = vomit
Dashboard = oh wow I can run the calculator on my desktop
GPU based image processing with Core Image = what
64-bit application support = like what
syncing = actually i got tired of my .mac account and the way my phone ended up with doubles of everything, so uh what
enhancements to the Unix support in Mac OS X = see ABOVE, mother FUCKERS
Safari RSS = what is Safari
VoiceOver = I am not fucking handicapped
Automator = ok finally a gui devkit for applescript. that makes sense
H.264 = oh hooray, i mean what
Setup Assistant = ONLY THING ON THIS LIST I CAN POSSIBLY IMAGINE HAVING A REAL USE FOR. BESIDES THE CALCULATOR ON THE DESKTOP THING WHICH IS REALLY JUST PATHETIC, NOT EXCITING OR WORTH MONEY.

TOMBOT, Thursday, 17 March 2005 13:02 (fifteen years ago) link

Apparantly the Mac is now "Fuck Off, fuck fuck off you fucking piece of fucking shit"


(Though to be fair the PC next to me is "Piss, bollocks, poo")

mei (mei), Thursday, 17 March 2005 13:21 (fifteen years ago) link

CoreImage, CoreVideo, and H.264 all really float my boat as does 64bit userland because that means I can scale my SAN volumes to the petabytes.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 17 March 2005 13:31 (fifteen years ago) link

I'm a very boring person though.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 17 March 2005 13:33 (fifteen years ago) link

If I ever, ever, ever need to scale anything to petabytes for my personal work and enjoyment then it's time to strap on the gelignite codpiece. I have been inside what is likely to be the most massive and powerful data center on the earth and the current amount of storage there altogether added up to about two point one petabytes at the time. Though they may be up to about 3 by now.

I just want a computer which allows me to customize its functionality in a relatively simple fashion which is constructed from reliable hardware. I think most of what is being implemented now, by all vendors, amounts to a lot of bells and whistles and doesn't improve my user experience really much at all. I think that OS and hardware design should be about creating a solid foundation, and functionality beyond basic administrative/file mgmt/config tasks should be left up to third party developers. I dislike the fact that Apple has taken the competition out of the arena w/r/t iTunes and iPhoto et al. and think it bodes ill for the future of the platform.

TOMBOT, Thursday, 17 March 2005 14:09 (fifteen years ago) link

Bells and whistles example: my new computer, which arrived the other day, apparently has some sort of music player built into the BIOS. If you ask me, that's slightly over-the-top.

caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 17 March 2005 14:11 (fifteen years ago) link

you know what would be a nice feature? An option to make the Caps Lock key into a Bold Lock key or an Italic Lock key. That would be a really good feature. Nobody thinks of these things.

TOMBOT, Thursday, 17 March 2005 14:16 (fifteen years ago) link

This is most successful thread ever--yay!

jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Thursday, 17 March 2005 14:24 (fifteen years ago) link

I could do maybe a half hour of investigation and write you a little Windows application that would do that, Tom. GO WIN32API!

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 17 March 2005 14:32 (fifteen years ago) link

(actually the petabyte is not the issue. It's cheap SAN volumes larger than 15TB that I want, and this is just for work)

Ed (dali), Thursday, 17 March 2005 14:39 (fifteen years ago) link

Bottom line: is *anyone* totally satisfied with their computer/OS ?

Yes, I used to be.

Hahahahahaha Tom you don't even have a caps lock key.

Allyzay Dallas Multi-Pass (allyzay), Thursday, 17 March 2005 14:44 (fifteen years ago) link

The parts are all warrantied individually by their respective manufacturers (they're often quite long, and some are lifetime!).

This is also OTM, individual parts purchased all seem to have better warranties than a plain ol' computer straight outta teh box! WTF.

As for "normal end user functionality", here's the simplest, stupidest, most pointless one to have removed I could think of, and one that, if my mom switches back to a Mac, would irritate the shit out of her (since I think we decided "moms" are the bench mark of "normal end users" for Macs earlier??): http://aroundcny.com/technofile/texts/mac111004.html

Allyzay Dallas Multi-Pass (allyzay), Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:00 (fifteen years ago) link

Yeah parts from individual third-party manufacturers often have very nice warranties, like the sound card in my college roommate's computer that failed under warranty and blew up his modem somehow in the process. He called to have it replaced and discovered that the company had been bought by another manufacturer in the meanwhile, and that the new owners had no interest in keeping the promises associated with their purchase.

I'm not saying this is typical, mind you, just saying there's no perfect solution in building-your-own, either, as Jon points out above w/r/t Linux hardware support and such.

Honey, would you download and install TinkerTool onto my/our laptop when you get a chance? I'm kinda boggled I haven't already.

TOMBOT, Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:19 (fifteen years ago) link

Here's another article about basically what I'm talking about above: http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,55395,00.html

It's already done, you still can't change that ugly ass font that is under the icons but teh programs and clock are all PRETTY now

Allyzay Dallas Multi-Pass (allyzay), Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:32 (fifteen years ago) link

Oh and for the above story: that's completely unusual (two of our old vendors had the same buy out issue and the new owners bent over backwards to keep warranties et al going) and actually if your roommate took his sad story to some other manufacturer/seller, I can think of at least two that have offered me DEALS to get me as a customer of their other products.

Smaller folx tend to be a lot less evil than your HPs. But yeah, it's only a "perfect solution" if you know what you're doing.

Of course Spencer isn't dumb enough to run any of these OSes, he's installing Windows on it, so what's the point here?

Allyzay Dallas Multi-Pass (allyzay), Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:38 (fifteen years ago) link

I tried changing my fonts with Tinkertool but it didn't work :( Then again, I tried for about two seconds.

Caps-Lock (or anything else) as a sticky "bold" key - try Butler, I'm not sure if it will do that but it might, it does just about everything else.

Personally, I'd like to see some kind of stab at way of managing things and activating things that doesn't rely on this desktop/file folder model that we've been going with ever since the first Mac came out. Why should I ever have to know the "path" to where something's been saved? Why should I ever have to "save" anything at all? It's all so dorky, I feel like I spend half my time drilling through folders, it can take so long that I forget what I'm even doing half the time.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:47 (fifteen years ago) link

I am really not that bothered about being able to change the default system fonts. that seems a lame and petty little gripe.

Amen to Tracers last point.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:50 (fifteen years ago) link

can't you do a file search?

RJG (RJG), Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:53 (fifteen years ago) link

Tracer what you need is not a computer but a Johnny Mneumonic microchip installed in your own brain, I think!

I don't have a problem with this "path" nonsense you speak of; what I dislike is that on certain programs recently released by a certain computer manufacturer who should not be releasing photo and music applications as far as I can tell and should be focusing on making their hardware nice as it used to be instead, files that are not saved in the "correct" path are treated differently by certain programs than files that are saved in the "correct" path. IE the old style Windows DO IT OURRR VAY OR VEE VILL BLOW UP YOUR COMPUTERRR. Saving I kind of agree with you theoretically except, err, I think there's a lot of people who don't want their computer to automatically save and archive every single thing they do on it.

But anyway I basically agree with you.

Fonts w/Tinkertool A) restart your computer B) it doesn't work on all of the screen fonts, only certain ones and certain programs, it's being BLOCKED on some of them. Change all of the fonts in the font screen, restart, and then open system preferences and see the new fonts in their glorious capacity!

Allyzay Dallas Multi-Pass (allyzay), Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:54 (fifteen years ago) link

Ed, it's not just fonts. And changing the defaults CAN be a huge deal depending on what you do with it.

And it is a good point to be made that strangleholding the amount of customization one can do to a system that used to champion its complete customizability is kind of a backwards step, esp as other OS's have gone towards the other direction.

Allyzay Dallas Multi-Pass (allyzay), Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:57 (fifteen years ago) link

Spotlight search technology - oh wow the new Sherlock, exactly 10% more useful than the old sherlock. I have gmail = WHOCARES

Uh, come on ... now you're just being cranky.

Personally, I'd like to see some kind of stab at way of managing things and activating things that doesn't rely on this desktop/file folder model that we've been going with ever since the first Mac came out. Why should I ever have to know the "path" to where something's been saved? Why should I ever have to "save" anything at all? It's all so dorky, I feel like I spend half my time drilling through folders, it can take so long that I forget what I'm even doing half the time.

Like spotlight?

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Thursday, 17 March 2005 16:52 (fifteen years ago) link

I don't have to save files with Spotlight? I believe it if you say so, I have no idea what the hell Spotlight even is.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 March 2005 17:03 (fifteen years ago) link

No, Spotlight is going to be absolutely worthless to me. Sherlock is worthless to me and spotlight doesn't address any of the issues that made Sherlock worthless.

Tracer is completely on point here. Bullshit like Sherlock and Spotlight is NOT THE ANSWER and has never been. What's needed is a way for user to be able to ARRANGE THEIR FILES THE WAY THEY WANT and SURPRISE all of a sudden stupid fucking thumb stuck in the dyke revolutionary searching and indexing technology is TOTALLY UNNECESSARY.

the REASON people like covering their entire Windows desktop with files and shortcuts and never deleting them is because THAT'S HOW THEY FIND THINGS. it's a shit ton faster than searching the goddamn hard disk. you look at an icon and click it. twice. this is the way MY computer USED TO WORK.

TOMBOT, Thursday, 17 March 2005 17:21 (fifteen years ago) link

covering the entire desktop with files=GOOD WAY FOR ME TO STAB YOU IF I HAVE TO USE YOUR COMPUTER ARRRGH

Tracer you could take the files you need to use a lot and make aliases of them in the dock and use that but after a while that gets ugly and confusing too.

Allyzay Dallas Multi-Pass (allyzay), Thursday, 17 March 2005 17:31 (fifteen years ago) link

Oh and FWIW http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/spotlight.html

Allyzay Dallas Multi-Pass (allyzay), Thursday, 17 March 2005 17:32 (fifteen years ago) link

Tom, honestly, you could still make your computer work that way very easily, it'll just be the ugliest computer in the entire world but IIRC the way yr old iBook desktop looked you don't seem to have a problem with hideousness. Download a hackthird party helper application that will delete the dock completely and do it. You won't be able to make the fonts crazy and ENORMOUS though :(

My main problem here, which I will reiterate again because, you know, spotlight and dashboard (uh didn't Windows try to do this integrated embedded browser/"active desktop" thing too? Dashboard, I mean. Wasn't that, uh, a problem?) will not fix my problem with OSX: they've taken some integral functionality features, "petty" ones or not petty ones, and removed them to give the user less ability to customize their computer. SEE ALSO: MICROSOFT, A FEW YEARS AGO BEFORE DOJ STEPPED IN AND SUDDENLY THEY MADE THEMSELVES A BIT MORE MAC LIKE. I'm going to pick again on the simple cosmetic issues because it seems to be the only thing that I can get people to agree on, without a judgement call as to whether or not xyz would use this feature, has definitely changed from previous versions of the OS to now. Adding a feature like that--and the slew of far more useful customization features that came with it--was like an integral part of why the OS was so great. You could make it react exactly how you wanted it to without having to use command line not-exactly-hacks of the system or third-party programs that don't always work. This wasn't a feature that caused any drain of the system and it wasn't a bug that needed to be fixed due to instability or computer-destruction issues. It was a feature that a lot of people liked. So why get rid of it? Why is Steve Jobs being quoted as saying customization is dead and why are they forcing people to use exactly this theme?

I absolutely, without reservations, despise Helvetica and Lucida Grande. A lot of people don't. On my old Mac, I deleted those fonts. I can't do that now. That was my very first, quiet disappointment when I opened up my iBook. Going to system preferences and realizing this system preference no longer existed. Yeah, this is a minor issue but it goes along with about 20 bigger issues of things I used to do a lot on my old Macs to customize programs and the way it reacted to certain things that seem to require a rather obtuse level of hoop jumping to get to now.

So basically, what I am asking here is why? Why have these features, which were a really large bonus of previous systems and features that are slowly being added to other OSes, been removed from OSX? Mac was a pioneer in this department--why are they going backwards, why are they going cagey and proprietarial and territorial, and what does this say for future developments?

No one ever wants to answer this question for me at all, but I think it is a perfectly decent question to ask. These features were NOT system drains. They did NOT cause computer/OS instability. They were GOOD. Why do they no longer exist?

Allyzay Dallas Multi-Pass (allyzay), Thursday, 17 March 2005 17:46 (fifteen years ago) link

Basically--yeah there are plenty of people who wouldn't use the features, plenty of people who'd be like oh that's nice but not miss it if they couldn't do it, but there are also plenty of people who would utilize the features heavily. If I can't do that anymore, which was one of my favorite things about having the old Mac, deleting options out of programs I didn't want to load up, changing the look of everything significantly, playing with all sorts of things--why the hell should I shell out money for these products, keeping in mind that if I had purchased a Dell laptop (or whatever) and my video card blew the way the iBook did, I could've v. easily and v. cheaply fixed that myself instead of losing the computer for two weeks while Apple fixes it with the special Apple part.

If I could get a good reason as to why the system is becoming more dictatorial and less user-trusting, that might change my mind. As far as I can see though there isn't a good reason for this.

Allyzay Dallas Multi-Pass (allyzay), Thursday, 17 March 2005 17:50 (fifteen years ago) link

Will OSX use a different font if you rename it? I'm really astonished that you can't change it!

Spotlight looks fantastic, but I'm wondering if it would be a serious resource hog.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 17 March 2005 17:56 (fifteen years ago) link

Also, the good thing about buying individual parts with an inherently upgradeable machine is that if something goes wrong with one part, you can just replace it with something newer and better. There aren't many individual parts that are worth sending in for repairs (shipping, repair costs, downtime = $$$). This is all dependent on whether you're comfortable opening up a computer and removing/installing parts (it's really easy). Laptops are different of course (and one of the main reasons I still am not truly comfortable owning one).

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:03 (fifteen years ago) link

So spotlight lets you search your system for files, and the contents of files? That's pretty cool. But it kind of proves my point, that the whole file folder/desktop metaphor is so unwieldy and irritating that another interface is needed just to make it somewhat useable.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:16 (fifteen years ago) link

OSX doesn't have a built in search-for-files function?

RJG (RJG), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:17 (fifteen years ago) link

Yeah, but I think Spotlight searches the contents of files too, and it searches as you type the word (kind of like how iTunes does it). But yeah I don't really see how it's any kind of revolutionary way to deal w/things. Haha it's hilarious that they're touting the fact that when you double-click on a search result it "opens in the appropriate application," I mean wtf else would it do.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:20 (fifteen years ago) link

PILES (2003)

They should have implemented this already. I think it's a great idea.

TOMBOT, Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:27 (fifteen years ago) link

RJG, spotlight is basically search queries saved as folders, live updated, so that, for example, all files with 'fish' somewhere in appear linked in one folder.

Ally, where you and I differ; I have a T-Shirt with the slogan 'USE HELVETICA' on it, although Johnston would be better than Lucida grande which is an unpleasant font I'll grant you.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:53 (fifteen years ago) link

We get too much Helvetica in New York, Ed, it's the Gill Sans of the American metropole. The MOMA, the subway.. fuhgeddabout it. I wouldn't mind Helvetica Neue though, maybe Helvetica Neue Ultralight. There are days when I want my whole powerbook to look like an issue of Cosmo.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:02 (fifteen years ago) link

The world needs more Cooper Black and OCR A Extended.

TOMBOT, Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:10 (fifteen years ago) link

I use Twentieth Century Monotype all over my work PC though and think it looks wonderful.

TOMBOT, Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:12 (fifteen years ago) link

My swiss designer friend HATES Helvetica. She says it actually makes her suffer. I actually like it a lot, especially neue extended.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:12 (fifteen years ago) link

I got over Helvetica. As Tracer points out it's way too all over the fucking place if you're a planes, trains hold the automobiles please type of commuter. It means nothing any more.

I'm kind of in love with this "Hollywood Hills" truetype I downloaded but strictly because it makes all my official documents really amusing and stupid looking.

TOMBOT, Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:16 (fifteen years ago) link

Bah to serifs (Incidentally I just found out that the german term for sans serif fonts is 'grotesk')

Johnston and Gill Sans are superior and more beautiful sans serif fonts but helvetica has it's place.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:17 (fifteen years ago) link

For a daily system font I want Univers Bold or Trade Gothic. Yes I am classy. And I am a bit 1998.

Haha Tom, that's what I loved about the old easy switcheroo font crap on Mac, you could make, like Budmo Juggler your default list-view font, it was hilarious.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:19 (fifteen years ago) link

Ed there is quite a famous font, a bit like Univers, called AKZIDENZ GROTESK

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:21 (fifteen years ago) link

Tom, you must write official reports in MN Dubbeldik

Ed (dali), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:22 (fifteen years ago) link

That's how I discovered the term. Helvetica was designed as a replacement standard trade font apparently.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:22 (fifteen years ago) link

xxpost
Ah but which Trade Gothic? I love Bold Condensed No. 20. and LH Extended.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:24 (fifteen years ago) link

Mm Spencer you're right those are both nice. For actually using them in a system it would have to be Bold Condensed 20, but just plain old bold is nice, too. I like having a little breathing room in there.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:26 (fifteen years ago) link

I'm not such a fan of condensed fonts, they look crabbed and cramped.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:27 (fifteen years ago) link

Avenir is my current favorite sans serif. The heavy weight is virtually identical to what Chanel uses for their logo.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:29 (fifteen years ago) link

good choice, Avant Garde Gothic is good too.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:33 (fifteen years ago) link

http://www.ign.fr/images/GP/ANN25.jpg

I would like to know what the name of the font used for place names on french 1:25000 maps is called. See bottom right of the above image.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:08 (fifteen years ago) link

There's nothing in that corner.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:10 (fifteen years ago) link

apologies, bottom left. 'Talloires'

Ed (dali), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:11 (fifteen years ago) link

Font snobbery beyond a certain point = mentalism

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:11 (fifteen years ago) link

One of the few pleasures to be had when developing on macs is being able to use Gill Sans in the IDE. It just looks so much better in OS X than it does in WinNT.

RickyT (RickyT), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:13 (fifteen years ago) link

Cooper Black

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:14 (fifteen years ago) link

I don't see much point in hating Helvetica. It's kinda like hating water or something. Even if you're Swiss. It ain't fancy, but it ain't going away, either.

You know what I hate though? Optima. Can't say why, exactly. It's the "Joy of Sex" font, and the "Planned Parenthood" font, and I can't look at the shampoo bottle in my shower now without being reminded of either those awful nude sex illustrations from the 70's or birth control.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:20 (fifteen years ago) link

Spotlight looks fantastic, but I'm wondering if it would be a serious resource hog.

Probably not as much as people are fearing. Basically, Spotlight is a front end to Tiger's database file system which allows for files to have metadata tags. It's very similar to the file system used in BeOS. Quoting from that article:

For the everyday user, though, BFS has much more tangible advantages. Any file or file type on a BFS volume can have arrays of metadata associated with it, in the form of "attributes." There is no limit to the amount, size, or type of attributes, and attributes can be displayed and edited, sifted, sorted, and queried for directly in the Tracker (Be's equivalent of the Finder). Because most attributes are indexed, search results are nearly instantaneous, regardless the size of the volume or the number of files being searched through. By default, BeOS ships with reasonable sets of attributes for common file types, but users are allowed to extend and customize these, and to create entirely new file types with entirely new arrays of attributes. In other words, the Be File System doubles as a database.

Users can use built-in filetypes with existing attributes, or create entirely new filetypes with custom collections of attributes. These files were used to deliver a dynamic web site out of the BFS database without using 3rd-party database software.

It is difficult to describe to users of other operating systems just how advantageous an operating system built on top of a virtual database can be. Only other BeOS users really seem to understand the power and flexibility of the database-like file system, and it is the single feature I miss the most from BeOS.

Copy your MP3 files' ID3 tags to Artist, Title, Year, Genre attributes. Sift and sort through your collection in the Tracker in almost anyway imaginable, or build playlists from MP3 attribute queries with far more flexibility than you get in other OSes.

BeMail messages store Subject, From, To, CC:, Date, etc. in attributes. Create virtual mailboxes based on live, instantaneous query results. This lets you obtain views of your email store that are irrespective of the actual folder locations of BeMail messages on disk.

Years ago, I created a custom file type based on text, with attributes for author, title, email, URL, etc. Then I wrote a CGI script in perl to extract and dish up these attributes over the web. In other words, I was serving up a database-backed web site without having to install or learn any database software whatsoever. That site now runs on LAMP, but you can see how the site was created here.

The OS-level metatags in BeOS was really really cool and I can't wait to see how it's implemented in Tiger.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:26 (fifteen years ago) link

Does anybody else think that the font smoothing in OS X makes serif faces look better while XP's looks better with sans serif? Or am I just balls-out insane?

TOMBOT, Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:29 (fifteen years ago) link

Ed, that looks like Futura Medium Condensed to me.

Curious George Finds the Ether Bottle (Rock Hardy), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:35 (fifteen years ago) link

Ed, on the French map, it's Futura Medium Condensed.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:41 (fifteen years ago) link

(whoops, what Rock Hardy said)

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:41 (fifteen years ago) link

Yeah, me too, although it's not the same font as "les Granges" or "Ermitage St. Germain" which is the one I really like. I think there are like six fonts going on in that map!

xpost

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:44 (fifteen years ago) link

I don't thik you're insane, Tom, but I think ClearType looks better regardless.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:44 (fifteen years ago) link

Taking Font Sides: Johnston or New Johnston?

I'm intrigued by the legal difference between Johnston and Gill Sans. Transport For London still claims ownership of Johnston and, especially, New Johnston - does the Strategic Rail Authority have any rights over Gill Sans?

caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 17 March 2005 21:14 (fifteen years ago) link

I am more of a T-font person: Trebuchet, Tahoma, and Times New Roman.

Allyzay Dallas Multi-Pass (allyzay), Friday, 18 March 2005 02:48 (fifteen years ago) link

Taking Font Sides: Johnston or New Johnston?

I'm intrigued by the legal difference between Johnston and Gill Sans. Transport For London still claims ownership of Johnston and, especially, New Johnston - does the Strategic Rail Authority have any rights over Gill Sans?

Definately Original Johnston. I believe on Johnston the copyright has lapsed, Johnston himself having died more than 70 years ago but I don't know if a font can be trademarked as an entity in itself or whether it is is just the usage (Roundel, signage, map styles etc.) that is trademarked. I believe that New Johnston is under copyright and the move to new johnston was as much about having an important part of the coporate identity under copyright as improving clarity.

I shall persuade Ambrose to ask his Dad who knows about thses things.

As for Gill Sans, it's not been used on the railways for years. I'm not sure what is the type face is nowadays but it's not proper Gill Sans nowadays.

Ed (dali), Friday, 18 March 2005 09:18 (fifteen years ago) link

BR dropped Gill Sans when they brought in the Corporate Identity* scheme in 1964. That was when the double-arrow logo was also invented, and the blue-grey corporate colours. It was around the time that the BRB Design Panel was formed, but I don't think that was actually set up until a couple of years later.

(*somewhere* I have a 1970-something issue of Modern Railways magazine with a "Ten years of the Design Panel" article)

* this may not have been what it was actually called - I'm sure it was Corporate Something, though.

caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 18 March 2005 10:00 (fifteen years ago) link

*13 high pitched squeals of 'fuck'*

mei (mei), Friday, 18 March 2005 12:55 (fifteen years ago) link

UPDATE: Repairs finished already, en route back to store. Will it get here in time??? Stay tuned for the next installment of Ally's blog.

Allyzay Dallas Multi-Pass (allyzay), Friday, 18 March 2005 13:09 (fifteen years ago) link

(I am the only person on ILE who likes Arial.)

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 18 March 2005 16:21 (fifteen years ago) link

yes

Ed (dali), Friday, 18 March 2005 16:29 (fifteen years ago) link

But does anyone have an opinion on Bitstream Vera Sans?

caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 18 March 2005 16:31 (fifteen years ago) link

hang on a minute and I will

Ed (dali), Friday, 18 March 2005 16:34 (fifteen years ago) link

good B, S not so good

Ed (dali), Friday, 18 March 2005 16:36 (fifteen years ago) link

Bottom line: is *anyone* totally satisfied with their computer/OS ?

I'm pretty happy w/the ST1040/TOS box I use for midi sequencing, heh.

standard font on my SUSE box = Black Chancery.

I was thinking about getting one of those mac minis, loading it up w/a 8x8 midi interface, a MOTU firewire 8x8 audio interface and using it as a replacement for my atari/hdr setup. Maybe I'm not so sure now. Ally + tombot on this thread are great!!

Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 18 March 2005 18:09 (fifteen years ago) link

(I am the only person on ILE who likes Arial.)

Arial is good for small font sizes on non-anti-aliased screens. If you don't have ClearType turned on and you're reading a small sidebar, Arial is what you want. Otherwise it's pretty ugly.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Friday, 18 March 2005 18:12 (fifteen years ago) link

I would wait nine months to a year on the Minis to see if the hardware holds up! we have raised GREAT WORRIES.

TOMBOT, Friday, 18 March 2005 18:15 (fifteen years ago) link

Yeah, that's what I was figuring. Let other people make all the mistakes. If my Atari craps out in the meantime, I can get another one, or get one of my 5 broken ones fixed, even. One of them just needs a new power supply iirc.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 18 March 2005 18:20 (fifteen years ago) link

A very "interesting" interview with a Mac developer, containing this excellent observation:

If you could push a feature request, or perhaps a bug on your
wish-list to the top of Apples' radar for OSX, what would it
be?

Kill Finder X. It's really that bad. But don't just
resuscitate Finder 9 -- do better. Finder 9 always needed a
toolbar, for example. Finder 9 needed a plugin architecture.
Finder X does trounce Finder 9 in terms of built-in search,
though.

There are people out there who know what the next Finder looks
like. Apple needs to get out of their way and let them deliver
it.

You seem like a guy who prefers to refactor rather than
rewrite, so I'm going to assume you wouldn't say that lightly,
and we'll just proceed on the assumption that Finder X is a
complete clusterfuck. How does a company known for its
innovation, craftsmanship and software skills let something
like Finder X out the door?

Finder X is the compromise between the Mac OS folks and the
NeXT folks. Neither won, everybody lost.

Oh my god, the entire bastardized notion of switching from
metal to aqua and hiding the sidebar when clicking on the
toolbar chiclet in the upper right-hand corner.

Bonus: notice how if you click on the extreme right of the
chiclet and try to switch back, you fail -- the window theme
switch moved the chiclet slightly to the left and now you've
got to follow it. Gag. Folks, this type of stuff makes Gnome
look good.

I don't know how Finder X shipped. Someone high enough must
be in love with it that the normal human interface vetting+
feedback process didn't/couldn't take place.

TOMBOT, Monday, 28 March 2005 19:47 (fifteen years ago) link

This website has had a lot of little add ins that have helped psuedo solve some of the disgust I had for OSX. Using a couple of these + TinkerTool & TinkerTool System have been a pretty good compromise for me, though not exactly ideal or perfect, but pretty good.

Allyzay Subservient 50s-Type (allyzay), Monday, 28 March 2005 19:53 (fifteen years ago) link

I tried using Path Finder for awhile, and I actually like it alright, although I was never able to strip it down enough, and you're still stuck w/the dock, and the menu-oid things that I think the above-mentioned developer refers to as chiclets. Maybe Pathfinder + DragThing + Tinkertool = nirvana?

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 28 March 2005 22:31 (fifteen years ago) link

what is a "chiclet"?

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 28 March 2005 22:48 (fifteen years ago) link

a type of gum

cutty (mcutt), Monday, 28 March 2005 22:59 (fifteen years ago) link

THANKS BRO

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 28 March 2005 23:00 (fifteen years ago) link

http://www.wackypackages.org/realproductsscans/chiclets.jpg

the thing in the upper right

BOATPEOPLEHATEFUCK (ex machina), Monday, 28 March 2005 23:02 (fifteen years ago) link

What's the problem with Finder? It works as well as Microsoft's search feature.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Monday, 28 March 2005 23:02 (fifteen years ago) link

I'm not sure amst, but I think he's talking about the controls that appear on the right side of the menubar, next to the clock.

Anyway, Tog says: http://www.asktog.com/columns/060MonsterMac.html

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 28 March 2005 23:06 (fifteen years ago) link

I thought he was talking about the chiclet in the title bar of the window.

People need to stop being such cranks. Iterative improvments are going to come along.

BOATPEOPLEHATEFUCK (ex machina), Monday, 28 March 2005 23:12 (fifteen years ago) link

the file finder system is shitty. the default column widths when you look in the 3-column view is too narrow to see the full names of directories that have long names. it's a pain in the ass to navigate around in. if you change your view it doesn't keep you in the same directory you had selected. I hate it.

kyle (akmonday), Monday, 28 March 2005 23:17 (fifteen years ago) link

The left hand bar of commonly used directories doesn't seem to remember that I like it tiny which drives me nuts!

BOATPEOPLEHATEFUCK (ex machina), Monday, 28 March 2005 23:19 (fifteen years ago) link

People are such cranks, Jon, because we USED THE CLASSIC AND IT WERE AN IMPROVEMENT. it is like when adults listen to kids' music and think "wtf happened to like, marvin gaye and stuff" and then YOU come along and act all like Lil' Nephew and shit

TOMBOT, Monday, 28 March 2005 23:33 (fifteen years ago) link

http://www.wackyweaselworld.com/lilBowWow.jpg

BOATPEOPLEHATEFUCK (ex machina), Tuesday, 29 March 2005 00:00 (fifteen years ago) link

What is this "window theme switch"? Is his only argument for trashing the Finder based on some feature I've never used?

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 29 March 2005 00:06 (fifteen years ago) link

Lil' Nephew cannot possibly be a real person.

Allyzay Subservient 50s-Type (allyzay), Tuesday, 29 March 2005 04:10 (fifteen years ago) link

I came home and tried out this terrible toggle chicklet. OK, it's dumb and useless. I can't really imagine a need to have e-z toggling built in like that. Surely a "folder options" option would be enough. And yes, the toggle isn't done as smoothly as it should be. The chicklet does move a bit. That isn't good.

Um. So I'm not saying there couldn't be a better Finder, but... is that really all the guy can find to complain about?

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 29 March 2005 12:14 (fifteen years ago) link

I love Apple because they're responsible for the existence of this thread.

Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 29 March 2005 12:28 (fifteen years ago) link

Why don't you stop using a Mac, TOMBOT? And if you don't want to stop using one, then try shutting up. You're such a whiner. This is the way it is. Deal.

Nobody In Particular, Wednesday, 30 March 2005 01:37 (fifteen years ago) link

STOP STEALING MY SCHTICK FUCKER!!!

Allyzay Subservient 50s-Type (allyzay), Wednesday, 30 March 2005 01:45 (fifteen years ago) link

i can't believe somebody would log out to post that!

(maybe it's a joke)

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 30 March 2005 01:47 (fifteen years ago) link

two months pass...
I don't think I understand the Apple business plan. As of right now there are no standalone desktops between the Mac Mini and a dual G5 2GHz (which, moderately ride-pimped, runs a cool $2400).
That's insane.
I want/need a new G5 desktop to last two or three years in the $1200 range and I don't want/need an iMac. Surely I'm not the only person in this middle-ground market - the Mini doesn't meet my needs and I can't/won't spend $2500 on a desktop running a chip that will be obsolete in less than two years.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Thursday, 23 June 2005 04:22 (fifteen years ago) link

I no longer have Applecare! Should I worry or is it all a SHAM?

a real bear behind the microphone (nordicskilla), Thursday, 23 June 2005 04:26 (fifteen years ago) link

I would actually like Elvis Telecom in particular to answer this, because I trust most everything he says (about computers, anyway).

a real bear behind the microphone (nordicskilla), Thursday, 23 June 2005 04:26 (fifteen years ago) link

milo, Apple will be selling G5 desktops well into 2007 and support will run well beyond then. However, sropping the single processor model didn't seem like the smartest idea on their part.

I would say applecare is important for laptops, less so for desktops.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 23 June 2005 04:34 (fifteen years ago) link

I would actually like Elvis Telecom in particular to answer this, because I trust most everything he says (about computers, anyway).

AppleCare is pretty essential for laptops. They're expensive, they get beat up, and if the screen fails you're already way ahead of the game in overall cost.

I've actually had to use it once and it saved plenty of time being able to leap-frog ahead to the front of the support line. To be fair though, if I don't have my laptop I'm not able to work at all - making that "does it pay for itself" question pretty easy to answer.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 23 June 2005 04:44 (fifteen years ago) link

are they planning on the intel-based machines to fill that gap or is that still too far away?

(they seem to run xp happily enough 8)

koogs (koogs), Thursday, 23 June 2005 12:51 (fifteen years ago) link

I got 6 replacement ipods with Apple Care. Last week the 90 day warranty on the last ipod expired. Two days ago my ipod was stolen.

banana face (banana face), Thursday, 23 June 2005 14:18 (fifteen years ago) link

I hate Apple

banana face (banana face), Thursday, 23 June 2005 14:19 (fifteen years ago) link

Six?

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Thursday, 23 June 2005 14:20 (fifteen years ago) link

Dude, it's not their fault your thing got ripped off.

Rock Hardy (Rock Hardy), Thursday, 23 June 2005 14:20 (fifteen years ago) link

I want/need a new G5 desktop to last two or three years in the $1200 range and I don't want/need an iMac.

Agreed. My solution was to buy a g4 tower on eBay. I think there's a sweet spot in price/performance right now from the "Digital Audio" models up to the early Mirrored Drive Door g4s. Unless you're doing really processor-intensive stuff, they should be snappy for a few years still. The last batch of g4 towers are still overpriced on ebay, though.

arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Thursday, 23 June 2005 14:23 (fifteen years ago) link

banana face, do you also hate your doctor for getting you addicted to painkillers?

TOMBOT, Thursday, 23 June 2005 14:25 (fifteen years ago) link

I hate the grocery store for selling me Nutty Bars.

Rock Hardy (Rock Hardy), Thursday, 23 June 2005 14:28 (fifteen years ago) link

hey I'm just keeping things on topic

banana face (banana face), Thursday, 23 June 2005 14:54 (fifteen years ago) link

I figure my G4/933 is enough to last until the Intel machines come out, but I'd like to upgrade now while I'm selling stuff and have the money. Photoshop CS can already be a little slow, I dunno how CS2 will work once I find a place with lax student ID concerns (I've got a student ID, but it's not dated, etc. and don't register for classes for another two months).

AppleCare almost pays for itself in resale value for laptops even if you never need them to replace the screen or anything.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Thursday, 23 June 2005 15:07 (fifteen years ago) link

But why six?

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Thursday, 23 June 2005 15:14 (fifteen years ago) link

Milo, my latest MacMall catalog shows a single-processor 1.8Ghz G5 for $1500. (Hmm, it doesn't show up on the website.)

Rock Hardy (Rock Hardy), Thursday, 23 June 2005 15:42 (fifteen years ago) link

milo, review of CS2 here:

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/apps/cs2.ars

seems to suggest CS2 runs as fast or faster than CS1 on same hardware

mei (mei), Thursday, 23 June 2005 15:45 (fifteen years ago) link

Called 'em; not available. (xpost to self)

Rock Hardy (Rock Hardy), Thursday, 23 June 2005 15:49 (fifteen years ago) link

Fry's had the single-processor model for ~$1300 last weekend (I of course didn't hear about it 'til yesterday). I guess it was an inventory clearout to make way for the new lineup.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Thursday, 23 June 2005 15:59 (fifteen years ago) link

Thanks, guys. I am getting Applecare.

a real bear behind the microphone (nordicskilla), Thursday, 23 June 2005 16:36 (fifteen years ago) link

I ravaged my ipods, Apple Care is great. I was joking.

banana face (banana face), Thursday, 23 June 2005 16:57 (fifteen years ago) link

One bad Apple don't spoil the whole bunch, girl.

Leon C. (Ex Leon), Thursday, 23 June 2005 17:19 (fifteen years ago) link

Oh, so once your warranty runs out, you cannot renew/buy Applecare?

What a RACKET! I HATE APPLE!

(are there any other independent applecare-type insurance plans that i can look at or is that it?)

a real bear behind the microphone (nordicskilla), Thursday, 23 June 2005 18:27 (fifteen years ago) link

Your warranty is three years. A warranty extended beyond that would be cost-prohibitive given computer life-cycles.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Thursday, 23 June 2005 18:31 (fifteen years ago) link

It appears that my warranty was only one year. I am blessed with many things (charm, a thick head of hair, general good nature) but foresight has never been one of them.

I HATE ADAM

a real bear behind the microphone (nordicskilla), Thursday, 23 June 2005 18:33 (fifteen years ago) link

renter's insurance at USAA has a special floater policy for home electronics like laptops, I could drop the fucker while trying to balance it on my nose and type at the same time, destory the whole thing and as long as it occurs in my apartment they'll foot the bill to buy a new one. Of course the premium for this coverage is as high as you might imagine with the potential for fraud, probably goes up 50% every six months you own the computer too.

TOMBOT, Thursday, 23 June 2005 18:33 (fifteen years ago) link

Yeah, actually my PB is only a year old cuz I screwed up the old one:

Listen to what I am going to say very carefully: I. Poured. Beer. Into. My. Powerbook!

And Renter's Insurance paid for a whole new one WITHOUT raising the premium! Everybody - Renter's insurance WORKS! It is good! I could kiss them!


So maybe I don't need Applecare anyway.

a real bear behind the microphone (nordicskilla), Thursday, 23 June 2005 18:39 (fifteen years ago) link

MY FUCKING IPOD JUST FROZE 15 MINUTES AGO IT'S STILL FROZEN AND I'M POSTING FROM THE APPLE STORE WONDERING IF I SHOULD START BREAKING STAFF NOSES WITH IT

BARMS, Thursday, 23 June 2005 18:44 (fifteen years ago) link

Did I mention how much I HATE Apple stores?

a real bear behind the microphone (nordicskilla), Thursday, 23 June 2005 18:45 (fifteen years ago) link

I need to get my iBook to the shop and have them replace it with a new one. This is the, like, 6th logic board/video card it has tore through. Gah!

Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 23 June 2005 19:13 (fifteen years ago) link

Do YOU have Applecare?

a real bear behind the microphone (nordicskilla), Thursday, 23 June 2005 19:16 (fifteen years ago) link

Yeah, iBooks have a quaint little habit of destroying logic boards/video cards apparently. I've got my fingers crossed that mine doesn't go batshit again.

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Thursday, 23 June 2005 19:19 (fifteen years ago) link

Did you try rebooting your iPod? Instructions on the Apple site.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 23 June 2005 19:48 (fifteen years ago) link

I do have Applecare. And mine is from that particular generation of iBooks that were known for their terrible architecture. (I'm not sure that they've improved, I just know that Apple did some sort of mea culpa about the ones made when mine was.)

Casuistry (Chris P), Friday, 24 June 2005 00:25 (fifteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...
my new dual G5 suddenly has a little problem wakey wakey-ing itself from energy saver sleep. I have to pull the damn thing off its special little cart (since it's about five inches longer than my old G4) open the side, pull out the air deflector and fans, hit a little reset button and reverse the process.

This is not so annoying (since after the first time you turn off energy saver), but what's wonderful is that Apple's vaunted support site (that the tech support guy from India told me about several times while on the phone) doesn't mention a goddamned thing about the process.
back to the beginning

I check my ebay auctions, go to take a shower after work, come back and it's frozen in sleep. Fuck around with everything I know for a while (hold in the power button, hold in the power button a little longer, unplug it, unplug it and leave it out a while), nada. Spend more time looking on their support site for hints: nada. Finally call tech support, sit on hold for 15 minutes, spend time going through all the processes I've already gone through (and told him about) before he decides to tell me how to reset the PMU. Thanks buddy, could have saved yourself some time there.

It seems to be working fine, I can put it to sleep and wake it just fine. Leave it on, go to the store, come back: dead. So now it's just energy saver fucking up. Reset it, call tech support, sit for 15 more minutes, rudely interrupt the surfer dude who answers when he wants me to go through the steps again. His big suggestion (guess we're off-script now) is that I need to go in and turn off the setting that sleeps hard drives whenever possible.
I get kind of pissed because I'm not a techie and I know that's unrelated - that setting is for them to sleep when they computer is working NOT WHEN IT'S GOING TO SLEEP COMPLETELY.

So I tell him I'll do that, but it's not going to work, so what do I do next? He mumbles for a while about turning off energy saver completely and I get a little pissy - I'm not paying $2300 for a desktop so I can cripple one of its features a week after it arrives. How do I make the damn thing work? He doesn't know and says something about the power supply. I cut him off and ask if I need to take it to an Apple Store, he says yeah, I hang up.

I'm sure that Dell's and HP's (etc.) customer service is no better, but I bought an Apple because it's streamlined, efficient, easy, etc. I expect that premium I paid to go for tech support, too. I shouldn't have to burn a Saturday driving to Dallas because they couldn't bump me up to someone with an idea how to solve the problem.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Thursday, 21 July 2005 02:11 (fifteen years ago) link

I wasn't completely pissed until I got the snotty guy the second time around. I can handle shipping a unit with hardware problems now and then (though Apple seems much worse about this), but when I call about the same problem for the second time in hours I expect to get bumped up a service level to someone interested in permanently fixing the problem.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Thursday, 21 July 2005 02:14 (fifteen years ago) link

milo, i think this was mentioned on here somewhere:

http://www.tuaw.com/

OLD SPICE® CHEMTRAILS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (ex machina), Thursday, 21 July 2005 02:22 (fifteen years ago) link

thanks, Jon I'll look around there. Most of the suggestions I've seen around point to something in the logic board (and the helpful advice given: 'don't let it sleep,' guess Apple tech support is cribbing from macaddict.com now).

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Thursday, 21 July 2005 02:39 (fifteen years ago) link

Also: macfixit.com

OLD SPICE® CHEMTRAILS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (ex machina), Thursday, 21 July 2005 02:45 (fifteen years ago) link

Most 'help' desks seem to be the same.

They have a script they won't deviate from, and they're happy to give/force you into trying anything to get you off the line, even if you've tried it before, so that when you call back (when, not if) you speak to someone else.

These are just as bad:

PC World
Pipex Internet
BT Business Dial Up
.
.
.

mei (mei), Thursday, 21 July 2005 10:12 (fifteen years ago) link

Apple premier business support is fucking fantastic, through in two rings, knowledgable, helpful people at the other end. I have no experience of their consumer support, but if their queue at the 'genius bar' is anything to go by, it's probably not up to much.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 21 July 2005 10:19 (fifteen years ago) link

You mention Indian call centres. I think they're doing harm to understanding between the west and India.

90% of my contact with Indian people is now them lying about their name as they parrot an unhelpful script at me, and it's usually when I'm annoyed to start with cos some equipment or process has gone wrong!

mei (mei), Thursday, 21 July 2005 10:27 (fifteen years ago) link

I've never talked to an Indian when I called Apple and they didn't use a troubleshooting tree. I explained the symptoms (kind of technical) and they were very helpful.

OLD SPICE® CHEMTRAILS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (ex machina), Thursday, 21 July 2005 14:58 (fifteen years ago) link

one month passes...
you know the biggest issue with ipod tech support is that you fucking stupid americans arrent able to even reset the thing without help. fucking idiots, lol. gotta love that american faggit shit, man i talk to you fucks all day and about every 6 call is good, the female caller is able to follow easy steps, much more than you american fucking idiot maledick heads.
you are the dumbest fucking idiots on the planet, period.
FUCK EMERICA!

Silas Althor, Tuesday, 23 August 2005 03:49 (fifteen years ago) link

Aren't you sweet! Y'know, there's a thread about call centre jobs (and their general suckiness) which would be much more appropriate for an outburst such as this.
Would you like some help using the search function?

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 03:58 (fifteen years ago) link

maledick head!! emerican!!

jimmy glass (electricsound), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 04:00 (fifteen years ago) link

The number of people unable to figure that shit out without resorting to asking ILX leads me to agree with the Brit upthread.

I'm Hi, Jared Fogle (ex machina), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 04:16 (fifteen years ago) link

the best callers are racial underdogs, man indian, british, aussie, black, white fucking orange users can manipulte the ipod better than you fucking dumb ameticans.how fucking hard is it for you fucks to use a product, i mean the manual/ online knowledege base provides all you need, but alas i have to deal with you clowns and manually updating your ipod, fuck is it even possible to be as fucking dumb as america is, damn you are the most fucking retarted bunch on the planet, and yes your fucking children and college are calling about reseting their ipods, and yes they need to be guided to do it, well it says alot for tomorrows doc's and professionals, just goes to show emerica is all about guns, drugs, lies and dumb fucking ass holes too spoiled to see the other side of their white bitch fucking moms, and overpaid american dads, i hope the world blows you all to fuck, i hate you america, as does the rest of the fucking world, you deserve to die. now, oh wait bush has got you dieing already, so im happy, dumb fucks, get a clue and realize you are destroying the planet, non keoto fucking agreening nazis, you are NAZI's with a 51 starred flag, fuck you bitches, if you knew how much the world hates you you would pull the trigger yourself. bye bye .

silas althor, Tuesday, 23 August 2005 05:10 (fifteen years ago) link

when call centre employees attack!!!

jimmy glass (electricsound), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 05:12 (fifteen years ago) link

Silas, where are you from?

I'm Hi, Jared Fogle (ex machina), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 05:26 (fifteen years ago) link

I agree with Silas. Deep down you do too.

LeCoq (LeCoq), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 05:29 (fifteen years ago) link

you know its not just emerica you are killing, it's the whole planet, you know, the thing we only have one of EARTH, so i figure those Taliban fucks have some sense, i mean damn even NATO can not convince you, fuck if I was NATO you would be taken out, replaced and educated, maby even educated before anything else. Then replaced because there is no place in the future world for you narrow minded fucks, none. Period, carry on OSAMA.

silas althor, Tuesday, 23 August 2005 05:32 (fifteen years ago) link

silas is from Trollville, NZ.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 05:34 (fifteen years ago) link

Apparently, the United States has performed extraordinary renditions on all the English teachers in Silas' home country.

I'm Hi, Jared Fogle (ex machina), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 05:41 (fifteen years ago) link

England is where English is from, none of this north american bull shit, although the Canadians deserve to use the language, but america, man fuck america.

silas althor, Tuesday, 23 August 2005 05:46 (fifteen years ago) link

wow Trollville, what a fucking great come back from someone bearing the name of Tu-Pac Shakur, you fucking ass clown either learn some disses or stop using that name, id murder you im frestyle, not to mention PAC would have you killed, fucking American. Stop trying to be gangster and just be what you were born to be, consumerist shit not worth the cum on your mom's knickers. fucking basterd, the next emerican i meet will have to answer for alot, like all the racism they have dealt out over the years. Oh yea, by the way I am white, and I still fucking hate you, its colour not color you lazy fucks, man no wonder the whole world wants you to fucking die, you are lazy, fat as fuck, and arrogant as ever, God FUCKING bless the UNITED STATES of EMBARRASMENT. God bless. AND go fuck yourself too, "might" I add. Canada rocks.

Silas Althor, Tuesday, 23 August 2005 06:07 (fifteen years ago) link

We are not too lazy to use proper punctuation and grammar.

I'm Hi, Jared Fogle (ex machina), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 06:12 (fifteen years ago) link

Thermo's "name" is not quite "Tu-Pac Shakur", nor is he quite American.

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 06:22 (fifteen years ago) link

Don't call it a comeback!
And I take after the chopra part of my name more than the tupac portion, eh?

xpost - (shhh)

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 06:25 (fifteen years ago) link

http://www.mackron.com/random/oschrist.jpg

donut gon' nut (donut), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 06:27 (fifteen years ago) link

Welcome to OSX

Operation System Christ.

I bless you.

donut gon' nut (donut), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 06:29 (fifteen years ago) link

What a little ranting cutie Silas is! Say - lets find his IP, and report him to the Apple call centre he obviously works for, showing them the logs of this page, I'm *sure* his manager will promote him promptly ;D

(Psst by the way Silas - mind explaining to me how Aussies are "racial underdogs"? I must confess, I am confused.)

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 08:25 (fifteen years ago) link

When I cglanced through Silas' post, and this being a computer thread,I though he was talking about Pacman.

mei (mei), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 09:05 (fifteen years ago) link

The Ipod manual is actually missing some pretty important stuff. For instance, the unhappy Ipod face which means "this Ipod is FUCKED" isn't even in the fucking manual. I had to google to find out what to do about it. That's quite a big oversight IMO.

Also, Itunes is a pile of shite. Such a pain in the arse. Why isn't there a way to update your library without having to go and add all the folders again manually?? Why can't you add a folder to a playlist instead of having to drag all the songs in individually? I end up making playlists in Winamp, saving them as m3u files and importing them to Itunes.

Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 09:29 (fifteen years ago) link

The apple support site actually has a lot of advice on it, though. It's just that when you've spent hours following all of it and none of it works, then you know you're fucked, but you still have to call in just to make sure.

The thing I hate is looking up every possible fix for my ipod online so that I don't call tech support until I've done everything, and then spending hours being put through the steps of things I've already done that didn't help. And then being told, "hmm, dunno what your problem is, go buy a faster usb card" even though it worked with the slow usb port until a couple weeks ago! so now i have to go spend more money to prove that something actually is wrong with the superexpensive ipod itself.

This is the second one that's bombed on me in a year; when I sent the first one in for repair, they sent me a new one. That's lovely as long as I have a warranty but the second two years is up I'm going to have to go looking for a new mp3 player. So has anyone found one that lasts longer than six months?

Maria (Maria), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 13:42 (fifteen years ago) link

my first iPod lasted 18 months or so: it only stopped working because i made the mistake of introducing it to a stone floor at high speed.

my second is two years old and still works beautifully. so, er: "yes, the iPod" would answer your question :)

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 13:44 (fifteen years ago) link

so how have i wrecked *two* in a year? the worst that happens to them is that they bounce up and down a bit when i'm running or they move around inside a bag, which i think are pretty standard types of wear (unless you're actually supposed to keep them immobile on flat surfaces at all times).

Maria (Maria), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 13:47 (fifteen years ago) link

but, um, the people i talked to on the phone were very nice. they just didn't know what the problem was.

Maria (Maria), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 13:50 (fifteen years ago) link

Also, Itunes is a pile of shite. Such a pain in the arse. Why isn't there a way to update your library without having to go and add all the folders again manually?? Why can't you add a folder to a playlist instead of having to drag all the songs in individually?

It works for me! on my MAC@!! :D

I'm Hi, Jared Fogle (ex machina), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 13:51 (fifteen years ago) link

i thought this thread was for rants! i dont work for apple, my roommate does and i have to listen to his rants, sorry guys.

silas althor, Tuesday, 23 August 2005 13:59 (fifteen years ago) link

Also!!

Apple website was broken when I was trying to get my fucked Ipod (which arrived that way in the mail) replaced and it wouldn't set up an account to register the Ipod to, and the phone operators needed my account details before they would do anything.

In the end I wrote a bitchy email, and to their credit they did get it sorted pretty quickly.

Re Itunes,

I figured Mac users would have it better. It's so stupid, you can add folders to your Library, but not to Playlists. So if you have a folder with, e.g. your fave hardcore punk songs, that you want to put on your Ipod, you'd have to add the folder to the Library and then go through the Library searching for each song individually by artist! WTF!! Unless I go through and retag each song and change the album to "Fave punk songs" or something.

Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 14:33 (fifteen years ago) link

they bounce up and down a bit when i'm running

[sniggers like a six-year-old at juvenile out-of-context fnarr-ness; composes self]

see, being very old-fashioned and paranoid [1], i've never run with my iPod. indeed, i bought a Shuffle expressly for the gym. i kind-of figured that jogging about with a small and delicate hard disk wasn't a good idea.

but then everyone else in the world seems to exercise with their iPod, so ... i'm sure i'm just overly paranoid.

i also bought some of this after i broke the first one. i heartily recommend it.

[1] although stupid enough to let my drunk friends fuck about with my powerbook at 6am on monday. gaaah. i came so close to losing you, by beloved.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 14:47 (fifteen years ago) link

Can you open the folder and select all files, and then drag it to the list.

Unless I go through and retag each song and change the album to "Fave punk songs" or something.
This is the insane shit PC users do that makes me mental.

I'm Hi, Jared Fogle (ex machina), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 14:48 (fifteen years ago) link

No, that's the thing, you can't add songs to Playlists from explorer, only from the Library. So you can't select files. You CAN import playlists from Winamp, so I just do that, but I shouldn't have to!

Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 14:51 (fifteen years ago) link

uh. the problem is with your understanding of how iTunes works. If you want to add a folder of your fav. punk tunes, simply use the Add To Library function, select the folder and click Add. Then sort your library by date added and all the songs you just added will be at the top. Select and drag them over to the iPod. It's really easy. Rather than get mad at the program and the platform in general, learn how to use it properly.

biz, Tuesday, 23 August 2005 15:47 (fifteen years ago) link

I know a lot of people who run with ipods, so I didn't think that would be a problem. I've thought of getting a shuffle, but if my regular ipod won't work I don't feel inclined to throw another hundred dollars at a similar product. (I spent my summer interning at a nonprofit and I'm about to spend a few hundred on textbooks...don't have lots of cash to throw around right now. That's kind of why I'm so pissed off at the "buy a $30-50 piece of computer equipment, because it might help and it can't hurt.")

Maria (Maria), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 15:58 (fifteen years ago) link

i thought this thread was for rants! i dont work for apple, my roommate does and i have to listen to his rants, sorry guys.

http://home.egge.net/~savory/wolfschf.jpg

donut gon' nut (donut), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 16:23 (fifteen years ago) link

i run 5 days a week with my shuffle and have done for about 8 months now. never had one problem. my 40G iPod was a bit trickier to run with though.

biz, Tuesday, 23 August 2005 17:08 (fifteen years ago) link

the first time i used isync it erased every contact in my phone and replaced it with old, out of date numbers that are in my computer. :(

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 22:24 (fifteen years ago) link

id murder you im frestyle

best chest-thump ever

Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 23:59 (fifteen years ago) link

I wanted to love Apple. I was so impressed with them after I dropped my ipod on the pavement and then ran over it on my bike at 20 mph and it remained completely functional.

I'd heard good reviews from my friends and was tired of the constant crashing of Windows XP, so I finally broke down and bought an iMac. It arrived today, and my whole family gathered around to watch me open it. My mother and father--who hate Apple, although they don't really know why, and had fought me tooth and nail to buy another Dell-- actually oohed and ahhed and as I extracted the sleek, self-contained desktop from the box.

Setup took less than a minute, and I was so excited to start it up it felt like fucking Christmas. Of course, something went wrong. No matter how many times I rebooted it, all the screen displayed (in truth, all it would ever display) was an error message in four languages on a dull grey screen.

I spent several hours on the line with a condescending Applecare representative who mumbled constantly and in one instance told me which key to hold down by pronouncing the sound of the letter rather than its name (note: "ssssssss" does not really carry well over the phone), and then berated me for misinterpreting his instructions. After zeroing the hard drive and reinstalling twice, he finally concluded that my brand spanking new computer was totally fucked. I'm moving to Brooklyn in less than 7 days, and come Monday I'll have to ship it back to Apple and pray the new one arrives before the moving van.

It is a such cocktease, sitting there on my desk, taunting me with its terrible, inoperable beauty. I hate you, Apple.

Laura H. (laurah), Sunday, 28 August 2005 02:40 (fifteen years ago) link

I tried to use the Tiger disks that came with my Powerbook to install Tiger on the lively Emma B's 2002 iBook, but it won't install, because it's a different model of machine, despite the fact that every previous installer has always worked on any machine, and this is clearly an artificial roadblock designed to get me, or her, to buy a shrinkwrapped $130 copy of an operating system that I already own. I hate you, Apple.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 28 August 2005 06:56 (fifteen years ago) link

There's this thing called Bit Torrent...

the food has a top snake of 1 (ex machina), Sunday, 28 August 2005 06:57 (fifteen years ago) link

Laura, you might be better off waiting until you're in Brooklyn and visiting the NYC Apple store. Apple has a 14-day DOA warranty where they'll replace your computer with one out of Apple Store stock (if it isn't customized) on the spot.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Sunday, 28 August 2005 07:08 (fifteen years ago) link

I need to switch my files over before I move, which I won't be able to do afterwards because I'm sharing one power cord with my father between our two Dell laptops.

They had better be able to rush the new iMac.

Laura H. (laurah), Sunday, 28 August 2005 07:14 (fifteen years ago) link

i was sorta annoyed at how slow this new powerbook was running compared to my old thinkpad until i realized it was doing everything on like 1/6th the RAM.

vahid (vahid), Sunday, 28 August 2005 07:22 (fifteen years ago) link

Mine flies with 768 megs of RAM.

I am looking forward to buying a Mac Mini so I can get rid of mp3 stuff on this one.

the food has a top snake of 1 (ex machina), Sunday, 28 August 2005 17:30 (fifteen years ago) link

three months pass...
can't get it out of network boot mode at startup

can't seem to reset PRAM (no idea why it won't do it).

would like to smash it with a hammer, and might even have to suffer the expense and final humiliation of getting someone to look at it JUST SO I CAN REINSTALL OSX & THEN SELL IT.

Mac 'problems' are SO MUCH more intractable than Windows it's not even funny.

Going to bed at maximum pissed off.

fandango (fandango), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 01:27 (fifteen years ago) link

What do you have set in "Startup Disk" in System Preferences? If you set it to Macintosh HD, the network boot issue should go away. (If it's refusing to boot, hold down option at power-on, and choose yr hard disk from that).

How do you know the PRAM isn't resetting? Have you tried resetting it from Open Firmware?

I agree that 'problems' should be in quotes.

Going to bed with a girl.

stet (stet), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 01:50 (fifteen years ago) link

can't get into sys prefs.. can't even boot the install CD.

holding down option at power on give me a nice padlock though. Something amiss in open firmware? That'll be fun to break.

fandango (fandango), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 02:03 (fifteen years ago) link

well... I changed to open firmware password (dredging it from very deep down in my memory) and I'm back on course.

Cheers stet, I am BACK IN CONTROL. That felt bleak :(

fandango (fandango), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 02:13 (fifteen years ago) link

how did you create such a situation?

(intractable problems also, sometimes, means *good security* that is unfortunately un-userproof -- like all *nixes)

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 05:13 (fifteen years ago) link

Asus hates Apple :(

Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 10:47 (fifteen years ago) link

hi, i'm typing this from the apple store (killing some time using their wifi). since i got here they've played sarah maclachlan and smash mouth, and showed a loop of ipod commercials on a projection screen.

mies van der rohffle (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 14:47 (fifteen years ago) link

omg there's this horrible woman giving a presentation now: "if you're coming from windows, you might not KNOW that the desktop art is called your 'desktop' -- you call it 'wallpaper'!!"

mies van der rohffle (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 15:15 (fifteen years ago) link

Are there cute girls at the apple store?

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 15:19 (fifteen years ago) link

Because I need a new keyboard....

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 15:20 (fifteen years ago) link

Obviously I set an Open Firmware password way back when ^_^ It was all my fault.

Waht exactly that accomplishes security wise when I have been able to wipe & reinstall the machine many times without being asked for it(??) I am not sure, but it said "security" so I added it.

That above post is a shining example of "things not to try when you should have been going to sleep already"... embarrased.

Anyway, in the process I finally realised (after some googling) putting Linux on this thing isn't going to be feasible after all. The WIFI will NEVER work, because Apple/The airport card manufacturers simply won't allow drivers to be written for it for other people.

So finally I have my definitive reason to sell it. Goodbye iBook.

APPLE ARE YOU READING THIS? THE 'FINDER' IS *SO* BROKEN THIS EX-WINDOWS USER CANNOT, AFTER MONTHS OF TRYING TO ADJUST, LIVE WITH IT ON A DAILY BASIS WITHOUT -EXTREME- FRUSTRATIONS AND IS ACTUALLY (NOW i CAN'T USE LINUX INSTEAD) GOING TO GO AS FAR AS REVERTING TO THE INTEL/WINDOWS WORLD WITH A LOSS OF MONEY TO MYSELF & PUT UP WITH VIRUSES & INSTABILITY & CRAP OF WINDOWS... BECAUSE IT'S _STILL_ A BETTER ALTERNATIVE TO TRYING TO USE THE (OTHERWISE GREBT!) OS X OPERATING SYSTEM WITH A *MIND-BOGGLINGLY AWFUL FILE BROWSER*. AND SOME OTHER PROBLEMS, BUT THEY ARE SMALL BEER IN COMPARISON TO THE 'FINDER' ISSUE.

(the finder 'alternatives' ALL suck massively too)

fandango (fandango), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 15:27 (fifteen years ago) link

Are there cute girls at the apple store?

there used to be a cute "genius" but i don't see her around today.

mies van der rohffle (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 15:28 (fifteen years ago) link

The Finder, fandango? Do you spend all your time moving files about? I hardly ever use it, certainly not enough to move to Windows just because it's buggy (which it is).

stet (stet), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 15:43 (fifteen years ago) link

I don't get it

cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 15:46 (fifteen years ago) link

I used the Finder enough to bump into it's bugs, illogicality and generally unbelievable levels of annoyingness on a daily basis, yes.

Without it being fixed, replaced or viable alternatives becoming available. It actually IS enough to make me switch platforms unfortunately. The whole Apple users always downplaying it's importance (and the importance of anything else wrong with OS X - see,hear,speak no evil about it) is something I find kind of hilarious.

fandango (fandango), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 16:02 (fifteen years ago) link

There's some technical rantage here, but I have a long list of my own issues too.

http://daringfireball.net/2003/05/steaming_pile
http://daringfireball.net/2002/11/that_finder_thing

If it works for you, I'm happy! But I find it genuinely un-liveable-with. Ho hum.

fandango (fandango), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 16:05 (fifteen years ago) link

Yea, I never saw any of those as being super annoying....

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 16:11 (fifteen years ago) link

Well, like I said I have a list of my own somewhere... I just never mangaged to get to the point of being able to tolerate it's overwhelming shittiness.

fandango (fandango), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 16:27 (fifteen years ago) link

i agree about the finder -- horrible. for instance, try downloading a file in safari. click on the little magnifying glass next to the filename in safari's downloads window. up pops the enclosing finder window. SOMETIMES, single-clicking on this file makes that finder window 1) scroll to an indetermined place and 2) select everything between the original file and this new place, so if one happened to, say, double-click to, i dunno OPEN THE FILE ONE JUST DOWNLOADED, every item selected will open. disk images, pdfs, photoshop documents etc. all at once. this has happened to me more times than i can count. i really am very frustrated with that. and the fact that every time i turn my computer on the files on my desktop are moved around, like someone's been rifling through my stuff.

have you tried pathfinder, fandango? i think it's sweet. you can even quit the finder while you're running it.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 16:27 (fifteen years ago) link

Tracer, I have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. God, I'm dumb. :-(

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 16:33 (fifteen years ago) link

Tracer, that is the correct behavior.

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 16:36 (fifteen years ago) link

no, you're blessed! it's not important, i just needed to rant for a moment..

xpost ?

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 16:37 (fifteen years ago) link

Tracer, double clicking is the same as hitting apple+O. How else are you supposed to open multiple items with just the mouse?

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 16:39 (fifteen years ago) link

why is the finder selecting multiple items and scrolling my finder window when all i'm doing is clicking once on one file? that's the problem here.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 16:46 (fifteen years ago) link

xposts - I didn't use Safari much. It's more consistent & integrated with the UI and OS X generally, but Firefox was still faster and more logical (if a bit rough around the edges).

Pathfinder didn't really solve all my issues Tracer, it felt to me like what it was: a buggier, overfeatured & inconsistently thought-out, third-party replacement for something that shouldn't need replacing.

I mean I know some people have problems with (for comparison) Windows Explorer's performance & bugs... but I never ever got to the point of desperately wanting to try alternative shells like I did with 'Finder'.

fandango (fandango), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 16:46 (fifteen years ago) link

why is the finder selecting multiple items and scrolling my finder window when all i'm doing is clicking once on one file? that's the problem here.

Do you have a logitech mouse?

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 16:48 (fifteen years ago) link

the most pervasive problems with OSX aren't issues once you realize that that the window contents don't update right away. Sometimes I'll click on a file and just move through the files with the arrows to make sure they're all updated, THEN click on what I want to open.

What's probably happening to you Tracer is that when you click on the file, you're telling the window to redraw it's contents, which often will change file positions, and always creates a weird second copy of the file for a second, so if you just double click, things are moving around, you'll get files you don't want.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 16:52 (fifteen years ago) link

when you view files by "details" or "list" or whatever it's called, try selecting a couple of files to move them elsewhere; WHY IS THIS SO FUCKING HARD TO DO? Maybe it picks them up, maybe it doesn't. I'm assuming it's that the finder doesn't want you to move files around when you're viewing them this way. But that's fucking stupid. I want to be able to easily sort my files by most recently updated, grab the latest ones, and move them to another server. Apple you make this painful.

the most pervasive problems with OSX aren't issues once you realize that that the window contents don't update right away.

this is fucking stupid too

kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 16:53 (fifteen years ago) link

the most pervasive problems with OSX aren't issues once you realize that that the window contents don't update right away.

This IS ass-backwards, but it's fixed in Tiger apparently.

fandango (fandango), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 16:57 (fifteen years ago) link

file lists in the finder are updated instantaneously in tiger, so i'm not sure i get it. in any case, it's very very annoying.

jon, i'm not using a mouse at the moment, i'm using the trackpad.

xpost right.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 16:59 (fifteen years ago) link

when you view files by "details" or "list" or whatever it's called, try selecting a couple of files to move them elsewhere; WHY IS THIS SO FUCKING HARD TO DO? Maybe it picks them up, maybe it doesn't. I'm assuming it's that the finder doesn't want you to move files around when you're viewing them this way. But that's fucking stupid. I want to be able to easily sort my files by most recently updated, grab the latest ones, and move them to another server. Apple you make this painful.


Picking the selection up by the icon in this view always works.

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 17:06 (fifteen years ago) link

WHY IS THIS SO FUCKING HARD TO DO? Maybe it picks them up, maybe it doesn't.

eh? i always view files this way, and i never have any problems moving them around.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 17:08 (fifteen years ago) link

i just copied over the contents of a backup CD that i burned in 1998.

it's called "[tracer] - hard disk - 1998 - mac os"

what struck me was how neat and organized everything was. everything in subdivided folders. everything in its place. i had added little icons to everything. i think i know why. because i got to choose where everything went. with os x you don't get to choose. it chooses for you. now i've got like 80 files on the desktop, two different "tmp" folders... yeesh.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 17:13 (fifteen years ago) link

Dude, there's this thing called the HOME DIRECTORY. Keep your bleeping files there dude.

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 17:19 (fifteen years ago) link

no.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 17:26 (fifteen years ago) link

It is much simpler really.

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 17:27 (fifteen years ago) link

well, i mean, i do. i pretty much have to. but on my old mac backup, i noticed that the top level was "fun" "dizzy" "code" "apps" "system" -- i like this a lot better than "applications" "library" "opt" "users" "system"

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 17:29 (fifteen years ago) link

I changed my top level folders to be images of balloons and put them in different landscapes by changing the folder background

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 17:32 (fifteen years ago) link

once you get your head round it - which takes, what, an hour or two at most? with maybe the odd moment in the first couple of months where you go, oooh, i see, riiight? - the unixy aspect of X is a piece of piss. like jon says, it is simpler and makes more sense - basically because there's an established structure to it, whereas pre-X MacOSes were often crufted and cobbled together with patches and sticky tape and string.

where i think apple went wrong in the beginning is not offering a quick guide to the fundamental differences between OS9 (and below) and OS X. i knew just enough about unix to be very wary of moving anything in X; where a lot of users went wrong in the early days was by blithely shifting vital folders from place to place and renaming them, then wondering why their entire system had fallen over.

i'm not saying the finder's perfect: it annoys me the way icons on the desktop occasionally get moved around, for instance. but, er, this happened before X as well. i mean, i'm writing this on an OS9 machine at work - i can't do any work because uShare has just died, meaning we've lost access to all our unix mounts - and i would give anything to be using X.

fandango, if you're really going to go back to a windows box: i wish you luck. but i think, in the long term, you'll have made a big mistake. still, like i've said to you before: horses, courses etc ;)

ooh: that's the servers back up. back to work.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 17:42 (fifteen years ago) link

"blithely shifting vital folders"

exactly. this is what made the original mac os so wonderful and what inspired such bizarre loyalty. as long as you didn't mess around with the mysterious "system" folder you could do whatever you damn pleased.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 17:45 (fifteen years ago) link

is it so hard to just make alias folders wherever you want and organize things however you want without messing with anything? It's not that complicated. Forget OSX's applications folder, I have my own you know?

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 17:47 (fifteen years ago) link

Tracer: That is a bug, it's a fucking *horrendous* one, and it pissed me off so much that I've filed it with Apple's developer site. It's also very difficult to explain.

Dan: Nice idea, but aliases don't resolve correctly between cocoa/carbon -- and cocoa does it by fucking STRINGS, so you can end up with folders that won't open. The finder is really, really woeful and I won't defend it for a minute.

stet (stet), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 18:02 (fifteen years ago) link

(To reproduce Tracer's bug:
1. Take a Finder window with more than 20 items in it, and a range of names
2. Set it to item view.
3. Make it small so you can only see three or four items
4. Press the key matching the first letter of an item scrolled off the bottom.
5. When it selects, click it that item once.
6. Watch as the Finder selects everything between where you were and where you are now.
7. Go to the pub.
)

stet (stet), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 18:07 (fifteen years ago) link

You can organize the Applications folder however you like.

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 18:10 (fifteen years ago) link

to just make alias folders wherever you want

exactly. i navigate nimbly through the unix-ness with a series of aliases that take me exactly where i want to go. and i'm running two machines, each with two users and all the shared items/permissions stuff that brings.

(i have just thought of something i HATE about the way it handles aliases to files on shared mounts, but fuck it. i don't expect perfection, yet with OS X i think i'm about 80 per cent of the way there. OS 9 was 60%. windows is in the low 40s.)

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 18:18 (fifteen years ago) link

You can organize the Applications folder however you like.
No you can't: the Apple updaters only update their apps if they're in the original location because the system can't keep track of apps like wot it used to (ie FSRef).

As for aliases, they're a *complete joke* -- you can't make them to anything other than local disks, and they resolve to the file-in-that-place first, unlike the OS 9 ones, which kept track of the actual file and where you'd moved it. The brain-dead behaviour is now universal ... EXCEPT ONLY SOMETIMES, because apps using FSRef (the good old OS 9 system) WORK CORRECTLY. The inconsistency is the worst bit. Grrrr. For the v. technical: http://rentzsch.com/macosx/pathmaxBlackholing

Stationery: also fucked. If you set something to be a stationery pad, then open it, it creates a copy first then opens that. No more folders of template documents then, Apple?

stet (stet), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 18:28 (fifteen years ago) link

The finder is really, really woeful and I won't defend it for a minute. Hurrah! stet, you are a rare free-thinking gem amongst mac-heads.

fandango, if you're really going to go back to a windows box: i wish you luck. but i think, in the long term, you'll have made a big mistake. still, like i've said to you before: horses, courses etc ;)

In the long term, they might have switched over to an intel architecture, and, FIXED THE FUCKING FINDER. Maybe they'll even allow me to do something about the bizzare window management *chuckles* :-)

However, until hell freezes over, I'm far more content typing this from a Windows box and have had NO REGRETS about switching back.

fandango (fandango), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 18:38 (fifteen years ago) link

it creates a copy first then opens that

isn't that what it always did? i know i could check, but i'm busy.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 18:41 (fifteen years ago) link

[o, the irony]

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 18:41 (fifteen years ago) link

No, under OS 9 opening stationery opens a new document called "untitled 1" that just happens to have the contents of the stationery. If you then press Apple-S, it asks you for a name.

The new way, it copies it then opens it. So if you Apple-S, it saves to, say, "GF'S Bad Service Template -1" in the "GF's Complaints Letters" folder without asking. If that folder is locked -- like the Designer Masters are at work -- it fails! Silently!.

stet (stet), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 18:47 (fifteen years ago) link

i'm actually surprised no one has created a kind of meta-finder that apes OS 9 somehow.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 19:13 (fifteen years ago) link

The real reason is that it's deceptively hard: it took years to get the first Finder right, and the new one has to fight between two competing sets of filesystem code, which must be murder. Though if Apple would sort out their internal religious wars on metadata and interface, it'd be a lot easier for them.

stet (stet), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 19:16 (fifteen years ago) link

This thread lost me some hours ago.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 19:17 (fifteen years ago) link

I have no problems with aliases.

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 19:24 (fifteen years ago) link

oh, shit, they must be fine then. Silly me.

stet (stet), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 19:27 (fifteen years ago) link

Clearly, Mr. Bubble Lead.

xpost

While we've got the hedz here, anybody have a good solution for fucking FONTS? I use Suitcase, but all my fonts are on an external drive. Suitcase forgets what it's activated, for some reason, so I have to go turn on the sets I want every time I restart. That doesn't happen for fonts on the local drive.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 19:30 (fifteen years ago) link

Dude, why do you have fonts on an external drive?

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 19:31 (fifteen years ago) link

I have no problems with aliases, and while I was frustrated switching to OSX at first, I've come to love it, and like any slighty odd and buggy software, live with and/or work around the issues, all of which for me, are minor. I suppose I'm not doing as technical stuff as some of you?

Yes, why are fonts on an external drive? And if suitcase is forgetting, either your suitcase is fucked or the preferences are set wrong. Whatever fonts I open stay open untill I close them.

Now I have a problem with autoactivation with Quark, but am pretty sure it's a bug with Quark, which is a TRULY problematic application I've come to learn to live with.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 19:40 (fifteen years ago) link

it's forgetting because they're on an external drive. it remembers fonts that are on mine. i should just move them over i guess, since i've got tons of HD space now. i had them externally because my HD used to be so incredibly squozen for space (9 G!)

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 20:02 (fifteen years ago) link

yeah, I'm with alba : /

cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 20:34 (fifteen years ago) link

Any idea if anyplace online sells powerbook "feet"?

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 22:33 (fifteen years ago) link

pic pls

nein Socken (nein Socken), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 22:38 (fifteen years ago) link

Those little nubs on the bottom.

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 22:45 (fifteen years ago) link

those are the kinds of things i always need but never know where to buy

s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 22:46 (fifteen years ago) link

superglue some skittles

detoxyDancer (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 22:50 (fifteen years ago) link

painted white

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 22:51 (fifteen years ago) link

$5 says you can find a couple between your sofa cushions.

nein Socken (nein Socken), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 22:51 (fifteen years ago) link

I have a fouton.

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 22:55 (fifteen years ago) link

a lot of people i know use these things, and i do too. it swivels!

http://www.targus.com/us/product_details.asp?sku=PA241U

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 22:56 (fifteen years ago) link

Web Results 1 - 10 of about 614 for those little adhesive tabs that you put on the cabinet door corner so the door doesn't slam. (0.30 seconds)

nein Socken (nein Socken), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 23:02 (fifteen years ago) link

I don't need that. xpost

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 23:04 (fifteen years ago) link

!! http://www.cleansweepsupply.com/pages/skugroup18375.html !!

nein Socken (nein Socken), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 23:11 (fifteen years ago) link

Those would rip off in like 3 seconds.

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 23:15 (fifteen years ago) link

Ha ha - apple has a PDF guide to replacing those feet:

http://www.apple.com/support/powerbook/doityourself/17al/

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 23:22 (fifteen years ago) link

And you can buy them here

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 23:23 (fifteen years ago) link

Thank you :D

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 23:24 (fifteen years ago) link

here dude, while you're at it, you could probably use some of these products as well:

http://www.assistedlivingstore.com/

nein Socken (nein Socken), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 23:25 (fifteen years ago) link

four weeks pass...
read the online tutorial, if you do this you will hardly ever need to call tech support, cause you can set up you own repairs online. use the tools you have at your finger tips; google, ipodding.com, ilounge.com and also the Apple support pages. its all very easy, you just have to put in work to get where you need to get. oh yeah, work would involve showing some ability to do this for yourself, im sorry i guess it would be hard for over 50% of the people on this thread. And for the other group, thanks for being able to read, understand and implement the instructions that are given online. Enjoy your Apple products, have fun.

Krajik Al Thor, Thursday, 12 January 2006 20:02 (fifteen years ago) link

Yeah you fuckin' mac faggots, Windows works great if you know what the fuck you're doing. Jesus if you don't know how to run taskmgr and regedit wtf are you even doing on the internet, fucking gaywads!!!!!

TOMBOT, Thursday, 12 January 2006 20:09 (fifteen years ago) link

Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein.

JENSEITS VON GUT UND BOT, Thursday, 12 January 2006 20:12 (fifteen years ago) link

Nietzsche bots rool.

Evanston Wade (EWW), Friday, 13 January 2006 04:41 (fifteen years ago) link

it saddens me that this is the most popular thread i've ever started...i don't even hate Apple anymore.

jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Friday, 13 January 2006 04:47 (fifteen years ago) link

This thread stinks like a jock's locker room thanks to TOMBOT and Allyzay's balls-out cussing. I haven't heard so many testicular metaphors since the bigshot lawyer played squash with the rightwing radio host and they "told it like it was" in the changing room instead of taking a shower.

Momus (Momus), Friday, 13 January 2006 06:02 (fifteen years ago) link

Now Apple are switching over to to Intel processors isn't it about time Microsoft rewrite their operating system with *nix and put these fucking bullshitters out of business?

I've never felt such a mug in all my life. God just imagining the prospect of using Finder (or whatever bullshit "search" function, gadget or app they try & present to make it appear like the file browser is a trifling nonsense to be ignored) and iTunes again, with no good alternatives make me want to stick redhot needles in my scrotum (sorry Momus).

My feelings when I sit back in front of a Windows PC "Ah, good. Now I can stop pissing about pretending to be streamlined and efficient and actually f*cking get something done, as the operating system isn't permanently working against me so hard"

I can't even face unpacking my boxed up iBook to watch a DVD :( My sister apparently wants to buy it, but even that seems like keeping it in my life too much now (god no, not 'family' tech support for the evil f*cking thing).

fandango (fandango), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 05:43 (fifteen years ago) link

hahaha you said scrotum!

Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:00 (fifteen years ago) link

incidentally, why do the volume buttons on every powerbook i've owned since 1997 take anywhere from 1-10 seconds to have any effect at all, replete with hard-disk churning, etc? fuck's sake. and oh, balls.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:11 (fifteen years ago) link

Momus, did Shoyu Weenie steal your song?

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:12 (fifteen years ago) link

Tracer, that's a feature. Not a bug.

Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:14 (fifteen years ago) link

fandango: for someone who made so much noise upthread about how happy he was switching back to windows, you still seem awfully crabby about apple. did you trap your knob in the iBook lid or something? i just don't get the level of hate if you're not actually using the thing any more.

grimly fiendish's scrotal sac (grimlord), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:17 (fifteen years ago) link

People don't buy enough RAM for how they use their systems.

A BOLD QUAHOG (ex machina), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:18 (fifteen years ago) link

i just want to make it louder, or softer.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:26 (fifteen years ago) link

That would be everyone since macs never come with enough to begin with.

xpost

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:27 (fifteen years ago) link

Wow Jon, that DOES explain everything.

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:27 (fifteen years ago) link

#1 apple annoyance -- inability to turn off "relative date" in open dialog boxes of individual applications -- also the absolute idiocy of the relative date sorting mechanism.

the fix the finder stuff rilly can get irritating.

on the other hand, with the side-shelf & the right cmd & option combos, etc., navigating the finder is still waay faster than windows -- just took a little getting used to.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:52 (fifteen years ago) link

the cross application cmd-backtick window switch thing is magic too.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:53 (fifteen years ago) link

and you can't sort by date in column view!!!! USELESS!@

fail to see how volume madness is a "feature."

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 20:05 (fifteen years ago) link

My iPod's disk is very dead.

A BOLD QUAHOG (ex machina), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 20:08 (fifteen years ago) link

STICKIES WAS BETTER BEFORE OS X

A BOLD QUAHOG (ex machina), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 20:31 (fifteen years ago) link

Tracer, if you can't see how a screaming hard drive is a feature, then you're obviously a complete fucking retard and probably never even used Netscape 4.x before, because you'd understand if you were me. Testicles!

Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 21:30 (fifteen years ago) link

While we've got the hedz here, anybody have a good solution for fucking FONTS? I use Suitcase, but all my fonts are on an external drive. Suitcase forgets what it's activated, for some reason, so I have to go turn on the sets I want every time I restart. That doesn't happen for fonts on the local drive.

First off, throw out Suitcase completely. Extensis' developers have been completely out to lunch when it comes to proper OS X development and are currently racing with Quark as to how fast they can alienate their user base.

Second, download a copy of Font Explorer. It's free and it works fantastically.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 21:38 (fifteen years ago) link

and you can't sort by date in column view!!!! USELESS!@

I haven't been really happy with any of the Finder augmentation apps, but Path Finder seems to be pretty good - and it will sort by date in column view.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 21:42 (fifteen years ago) link

can someone explain how these purported OSX problems might be relevant to a lifetime Mac user, nonprogrammer, new iPod owner, totally novice downloader, and non-illegal file-sharer considering supplementing an old OS9-G3book with an OSX/unix-desktop?

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 21:43 (fifteen years ago) link

er, i meant OSX/intel - one of the new machines

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 21:45 (fifteen years ago) link

People don't buy enough RAM for how they use their systems.

Apple don't include enough RAM for how their OS runs. this thing cost me 2 grand ffs!

jed_ (jed), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 21:52 (fifteen years ago) link

gabbneb it depends on what exactly you're using your computer for.

tears before 7pm EST.

Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:01 (fifteen years ago) link

gabby, just buy shitloads of RAM from a third party and never use the volume keys.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:02 (fifteen years ago) link

can someone explain how these purported OSX problems might be relevant to a lifetime Mac user, nonprogrammer, new iPod owner, totally novice downloader, and non-illegal file-sharer considering supplementing an old OS9-G3book with an OSX/unix-desktop?

They're all non-issues unless you like to painfully nit-pick over things or are affronted that Steve Jobs didn't personally call you for your input in development. I'm a programmer, database developer, network cop, iPod owner, p2p user, etc. and I'm 85% satisfied with my set-up. If I sat down and thought about it some more I could probably work up a good series of complaints about that remaining 15% but since that 85% satisfaction is responsible for 100% of my income I don't really have the time.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:03 (fifteen years ago) link

is Font Explorer really robust? I was bummed when OSX came about because Apples said Font Book solved all the problems, but realized right away that it was a toy and a mess. I've used Suitcase, ATM, Masterjuggler and Font Reserve and I hate them all. But can Font Explorer handle thousands of fonts well? Auto-activate w/ no problem? I can only assume it's the real deal coming from Linotype. I guess I'll find out tonight...

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:05 (fifteen years ago) link

"painfully nit-pick" = have a computer that crashes on you consistently. Except for when I compiled some shit. Worked like a total dream then, finished in like record time. That was pretty cool. Please don't pull a Jon, Chris, you're normally like the sanest, least judgemental person on these threads. If I could afford something else, I'd buy it.

Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:07 (fifteen years ago) link

Agggh! Font Book!

Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:08 (fifteen years ago) link

since that 85% satisfaction is responsible for 100% of my income I don't really have the time

hence, my latter-day lack of reasons to hate Microsoft anymore, and instead be perturbed at Apple because just-as-reliable ugly Dell gear comes with 1.5x better price/performance/compatibility ratio.

I think it's the coming-home-to-relax factor as opposed to working-with-it factor that's responsible for a lot of my OS X Finder et al. animosity. It's just not as easygoing or fun(ctional) as I remember it being.

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:10 (fifteen years ago) link

OSXIntel won't much matter to you, Gabbneb. Right now the big hurdle is for pro/power-users, who need to run Final Cut and Photoshop at reasonable speeds. For you, all the provided Apple apps are either native or will be soon and you'll eventually be able to run Windows programs (either in a dual-boot setup, or in VirtualPC, which will run at full speed rather than like a 386/12).

xpost
I'm not sure about that 1.5x price-to-performance ratio. When I was buying my G5, I looked pretty close at Windows machines and saved very little money for the same quality.

Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:13 (fifteen years ago) link

gabbneb it depends on what exactly you're using your computer for.

this is one of those philosophical questions, isn't it? besides l'interweb-retina fusion, yer basic Word-based notepad-type stuff, plus I guess lots of music (and photo? dvd?)-downloading/storage type stuff, which i'll be totally new to.

gabby, just buy shitloads of RAM from a third party and never use the volume keys.

WHAT?! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!

They're all non-issues unless you like to painfully nit-pick over things

ok, that's what i was looking for

one thing i've noticed on my parents' OSX - these sidebar application icons that JUMP. OUT. AT. YOU. when you get within half a mile of them. is this what i have to look forward to?

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:15 (fifteen years ago) link

if I did somehow figure my way into this strange world of putting photos you take? on computers? on the internet?! i could see myself going crazy on that end

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:17 (fifteen years ago) link

You can change the dock settings to your preferences. I made mine small and turned off all the useless crap they have it set up to do (magnifying icons, disappearing, etc.)

Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:18 (fifteen years ago) link

But can Font Explorer handle thousands of fonts well?

*opens up Font Explorer and counts fonts*

I've got 2672 fonts loaded of which 314 are active right now. FWIW, a designer at one of the places I consult at has 5500 or so fonts loaded in Font Explorer and hasn't reported any issues with it (they were running Suitcase which caused problems daily)

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:38 (fifteen years ago) link

Nice. I figured it'd be proper. I actually used to use Linotype-Hell's Linocolor software for my home scanner because where I worked used the pro version of Linocolor for their drum scanners. It was a big "german" in it's design, but very powerful. I don't think it exists anymore but all of it's super cool features were later adopted by Photoshop anyway.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:40 (fifteen years ago) link

xposts: fandango: for someone who made so much noise upthread about how happy he was switching back to windows, you still seem awfully crabby about apple. did you trap your knob in the iBook lid or something? i just don't get the level of hate if you're not actually using the thing any more.

-- grimly fiendish's scrotal sac

I didn't get much (any) sleep last night, was posting ... with nothing much to add.

The level of hate though is generated by the fact I would LOVE to use the thing. There are plenty reasons why Windows sucks too you know! And I'm sick of fixing desktop PC's, and Windows laptops are often fugly and poorly thought/laid out in comparison. I would love to use it but... it makes me tear my hair out in frustration. So I don't. Yes I'm crabby! I fell for the hype and I feel like a fool.

The piss-poor state of the finder though is something that I just can't ignore (and believe me I've tried!!) in regular use, it just gets in my way and confounds me at every turn. It really is the elephant in the room. It took me what... five minutes? to get my head around Windows Explorer's folder tree. SIX MONTHS struggling with the finder and I still wasn't really sure if I was using it right, and was mostly just AWARE of it being there.

This isn't a "geek" rant. Or an anti-Apple screed (mostly). I couldn't give a shit about brushed metal, I don't even mind the dock... I really like my iPod (but they NEED to fix the LAME VBR bug asap!)

I'm just a fairly competent PC user who is plain amazed that everyone else can get along with something so wrong and broken on a basic usability level. It isn't even the slowness of the thing that grates. And frustrated that it'll basically NEVER be fixed because Apple seems to think bells, whistles & PR will somehow bridge the gap. All I see in the future if I was to hang onto this thing is lies, self-denial, and excessive further costs to come. I dunno about "long term" but I still feel I'm doing the right thing by jumping off now before it gets worse. I hate them for putting me in this position.

"I can find my files okay" is SUCH a 'mac' response too. As if that's ALL a file browser does. ffs.

fandango (fandango), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:58 (fifteen years ago) link

"painfully nit-pick" = have a computer that crashes on you consistently. Except for when I compiled some shit. Worked like a total dream then, finished in like record time. That was pretty cool. Please don't pull a Jon, Chris, you're normally like the sanest, least judgemental person on these threads. If I could afford something else, I'd buy it.

I'm not trying to be knee jerk here, nor am I invalidating your crappy iBook/iPod but there's a lot of "Macs don't do this one thing EXACTLY so it SUCKS!" talk in this thread that bothers me. Most likely, that iBook G3 you had was just crap and from looking at the results of this iBook and PowerBook survey quite a few people had problems with it...

"The iBook G3, which sold quite well, had the most failures of any Apple laptop we surveyed and the failures were critical (the motherboard). Some other Mac models have had quite a few failures as well, but they generally were due to specific component problems. The iBook G3 simply appears to have been a flawed design, but it took a long time for Apple engineers to get a handle on the problem and fix it."

Every manufacturer has a flawed design sooner or later (don't get me started on Dell laptops), but it doesn't necessarily extend to the entire product line. Gabbneb just wanted to know if he would be making a mistake if he bought a new laptop (I don't believe he would, but I think he should get AppleCare with it)

Of course I'm biased to some degree because much of my livelihood depends on having more Macs out there.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:20 (fifteen years ago) link

Not wishing to stir the pot at all, but what exactly is wrong with Finder? Is it because it's inferior to the OS9 version? It does crash sometimes, sure, but then I've also seen "EXPLORER.EXE has generated errors and will be closed by Windows" far too many times to count (I would talk about Nautilus, but I'm a terminal man in Linux).


(I jumped to Mac in 2002, so I've never actually used the old Finder, but so far, the only thing that really bothers me sometimes is that it can sometimes be difficult to create a new directory when it's in list mode. I also seem to remember fuss about it being Carbon-based rather than written in Cocoa)

carson dial (carson dial), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:23 (fifteen years ago) link

It took me what... five minutes? to get my head around Windows Explorer's folder tree. SIX MONTHS struggling with the finder and I still wasn't really sure if I was using it right, and was mostly just AWARE of it being there.

Going the Mac->Windows direction isn't much better either. I dread the Windows folder tree and still hate how it slows me down.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:27 (fifteen years ago) link

I was wondering the same. The only two things that bother me about it are previews of .avi files taking ages to appear, and only 'copy' file being available from the menu, not 'cut'. The latter isn't a big deal cause I usually drag and drop (with Alt if necessary) when I'm moving files anyway.

I used to find it a bit fiddly to get to non-dock applications, but then I realised I could put an alias to the Application folder in my dock.

Other than that I have no problems. Oh, integrated FTP and CD copying support would be nice.

Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:31 (fifteen years ago) link

The only two things that bother me about it are previews of .avi files taking ages to appear,

This bothered me for a long time also, but upgrading to the latest DivX 6 driver seemed to have sped things up a lot (using OS X 10.4.4 with QuickTime 7.0.4 if it matters)

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:35 (fifteen years ago) link

If you don't find 'Finder' problematic then I'm just happy for you. I wish I could have got to that zen-state.

The windows folder tree is hardly perfect I'll admit! But it slow me down less because it behaves consistently, you can rely on it (except when it crashes obv.). That's the key.

OS X behaves in ways that are unexpected, unusual, random, illogical and stop you "just getting on with it". It's like a slippery electric eel, when it should be your pet dog & friend.

fandango (fandango), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:38 (fifteen years ago) link

I should make clear that I'd get a desktop if I got a new machine. And that I really should convert to OSX, given that I'm stuck with an ancient Internet Explorer version and can't run a lot of really basic flash-type stuff. But is it worth getting a new machine to get OSX or should I just convert my Powerbook G3 (bronze keyboard)?

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:50 (fifteen years ago) link

No cut & paste, Window locations jumping all over your screen, icons dissapearing off the window edge, moving up a directory being different dependent on where you started, folder views enforced PER FOLDER instead of globally (that one is a real bitch), difficulty picking up files in some views, slow previews, not being able to hide the sidebar all the time, no visible file-path in the address bar = total confusion, inconsistent behaivour dragging the folder icon from the top of the finder windows (sometimes creates an alias, sometimes moves the directory! - yet another thing "best left avoided").

There's so much wrong with the fucking thing.

fandango (fandango), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:01 (fifteen years ago) link

What was that "quick open folders" thing called? I remember when for no reason I could think of it suddenly changed actions & started opening every folder I passed in a new window instance. That's the kind of thing that I just don't have to give a second's thought to in crappy, but reliably unglamourous bumble-your-way through Windows Explorer.

fandango (fandango), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:05 (fifteen years ago) link

If anyone understands what I'm getting at with those points there (communication isn't easy when filled with pure rage) I am curious to know if improvements/changes have been made in Tiger. At least one beef there is unmentioned (items copied to desktop not updating, or being visible for minutes) because it's been fixed now.

fandango (fandango), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:09 (fifteen years ago) link

fandango...I understand the points fully, but don't find it that big a deal (after getting used to it) and while some of those aspects still annoy me, I still find the entire thing easier then the alternative.

The first thing to understand is they're not windows anymore like they used to be...when you double click a folder you're not opening the folder, you're opening a little browser window that shows you what's in the folder. If you don't think to hard about it it may seem like I'm splitting hairs, but remembering that difference is one major way I'm able to understand how finder works now differently then before.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:18 (fifteen years ago) link

I'm on 10.3, but folder views enforced PER FOLDER instead of globally (that one is a real bitch I can see would be a bitch if you didn't prefer column view, as I do. In Finder preferences, I checked the 'Open New Windows in column view' and that works fine.

I honestly haven't experienced most of the things you mention! I do find Desktop icons are sometimes invisible in XP though... And XP's 'map network drive' view is appalling, where if the directory path is longer than about 12 characters it just truncates it and there's no way of scrolling or even copy-pasting it to see the full thing.

Alba (Alba), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:25 (fifteen years ago) link

that's spot on!! thank you for figuring that out, i just wish somebody had told me earlier :( they need to stop with the pics of folders now already, though, and go with something that fits their abstract browser view metaphor better. maybe each directory could be represented with a, wait i've got it, a sherlock holmes hat and magnifying glass!

xpost: yeah, dan's precise summary of the New Way explains why column view is k-1,000,000 times better than the alternatives (although you STILL have to use list view to get date sorting, and you still have to use icon view if you want thumbnails without the irritating potential of accidentally firing up a QT preview)

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:28 (fifteen years ago) link

poor neglected Sherlock!

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:29 (fifteen years ago) link

when you double click a folder you're not opening the folder, you're opening a little browser window that shows you what's in the folder

I don't understand the difference :( In practical terms nothing is a "folder" anyway, its a portion of the hard drive with your data stored on it, that is marked for quick reference as a 'directrory'.

I just don't understand how what you call the window you view things with (folder, broswer window) affects the end experience? Maybe I'm being simple.

I'd LOVE to think I could still get "used" to it. Whatever it takes! Maybe a rusty nail in my brain might do it :X

Honestly, I thought I came close once to "stablizing" it. I was happy, but it didn't last. I've never had such a problem getting used to an application (including alomst everything else about OS X) in my life!! Perhaps because I wouldn't have had to persist with other ones....

And no, none of those points are big in isolation, but they REALLY add up when they recur again & again in daily use.

fandango (fandango), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:33 (fifteen years ago) link

Have you tried using column view? As Tracer says, you need to switch to list view when you need to sort a folder by whatever attribute, but that only takes a moment.

when you double click a folder you're not opening the folder, you're opening a little browser window that shows you what's in the folder

I don't understand the difference either.

Alba (Alba), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:38 (fifteen years ago) link

have a computer that crashes on you consistently.

Ok, now you are just being silly. What crashes on you? Honestly, my beloved firefox locks up the most of anything. And by that I mean, "I gotta use force quit"

A BOLD QUAHOG (ex machina), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:38 (fifteen years ago) link

xposts, sorry.

In Finder preferences, I checked the 'Open New Windows in column view' and that works fine.

It doesn't though! My LAST CHOICE EVER would be "icon view" to use. In Windows I NEVER have to see this, never, and certainly not a fucked-up broken snap-to-grid-way-off-yonder-requiring-the-use-of-random-window-size-change-button which even in that case doesn't always maximise properly...

All sorts of windows open up in Icon view still. Like network drives, and... just no! Apple don't seem to understand the meaning of "system wide" preferences (particularly for file types). Maybe it's a Unix thing.

fandango (fandango), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:39 (fifteen years ago) link

I dunno, should I hang on another month? Wait for improvements?

http://www.filerun.info/

I feel like I've bullshitted myself so hard trying to become convinced that mac's are worth the effort it takes to get along with them already.

fandango (fandango), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:43 (fifteen years ago) link

in OS X things don't stay where you put them -- spatially -- so imagining files or folders as physical things leads to very spooky suspicions about one's computer and a definite feeling that one is not quite in control; if one imagines each folder view as just a porthole into your data (rather than a replica of real-world objects that, in the real world, stay where you put them unless the cat's been running around) then these feelings dissipate somewhat. mmm, dissipation

the change in metaphor is very neatly summed up by the fact that Apple-N once created an Empty Folder; now it creates a New Finder Window

xpost: it is a unix thing; it's a permissions thing. there's a hack to change this globally, i think, but you have to be logged in as root

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:43 (fifteen years ago) link

fwiw, I almost always use list view because I work no differently then when I had OS9, but I like switching to column view on occasion. I never use icon view.

but the difference has to do with things like where you are/going back etc. The issue you have, which I share, is that you think you're going back up in the directory but you're going to the last thing you browsed, for instance. That's when I have to remember it's not OS9.

But I just find the quick and simple placement of key alias folders in the sidebar, in the toolbar, and in the dock make it easy for me to do anything I need to do/go anywhere I need to go.

and if you have the icon view, type command-2 everytime you open a window to get to list view.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:43 (fifteen years ago) link

basically, what i'm saying is, we once created things from nothing and now we just move things around -- we've gone from the materialism of alchemy to modernism, with all the supernatural anxieties such a shift always implies

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:46 (fifteen years ago) link

Using column view, btw, I have really my regularly used folders like Applications, Documents, Music, Pictures and Downloads in the left pane (whatever that's called), plus I reinstated Favorites to that pane, which has aliases of my other most-used folders in.

I have 11 or 12 of my most-used Applications in the Dock at the bottom, with auto-hide on. I have an alias to my Apps folder also in the dock, so I right-click that to get at other Apps quickly.

That's my set-up, and it works well enough for me not to have to think about it much.

x-post

It doesn't though! My LAST CHOICE EVER would be "icon view" to use. In Windows I NEVER have to see this, never, and certainly not a fucked-up broken snap-to-grid-way-off-yonder-requiring-the-use-of-random-window-size-change-button which even in that case doesn't always maximise properly...

All sorts of windows open up in Icon view still. Like network drives, and... just no!

I hate icon view too, but I don't get this problem. Can't say I use network drives on my mac though, so maybe you're right.

Alba (Alba), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:48 (fifteen years ago) link

But I just find the quick and simple placement of key alias folders in the sidebar, in the toolbar, and in the dock make it easy for me to do anything I need to do/go anywhere I need to go.

I tried this, but then came across another wondrous piece of Apple logic. You can't name them after the file path, it only keeps the final folder name.

I know WHY they think that's useful, but it's actually UNUSEFUL for me! *BANGS HEAD ON IBOOK*

The whole idea of a graphical display in the first place is to make the idea of file storage seem more tangible & realistic. Apple... I don't know what the fuck Apple are trying to achieve by working against this model frankly but it makes EVERYTHING HARDER.

fandango (fandango), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:51 (fifteen years ago) link

thanks everyone for all the tips btw!

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:55 (fifteen years ago) link

thanks everyone for all the tips btw!

-- Tracer Hand

I'm not sure if that's sarcasm, but I am thankful here! I'm not totally resistant to everything suggested. I think I wanted to post this morning saying "convince me (again) OS X isn't a dud". But I missed that bit out really.

There isn't much so far I haven't tried already but, maybe I will give it another go :|

fandango (fandango), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:59 (fifteen years ago) link

i was serious! well, as serious as one can be on a thread dedicated to a computer manufacturer.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 19 January 2006 01:06 (fifteen years ago) link

Oh, okay :)

apologies for misreading the tone.

fandango (fandango), Thursday, 19 January 2006 01:10 (fifteen years ago) link

The whole idea of a graphical display in the first place is to make the idea of file storage seem more tangible & realistic.

GUI's have been around for twenty years now so is the "desktop" metaphor even necessary?

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 19 January 2006 01:30 (fifteen years ago) link

I have 11 or 12 of my most-used Applications in the Dock at the bottom, with auto-hide on.

One thing that helped me a lot was to put my most used "drag/drop" apps (StuffIt Expander, MacPAR, Photoshop, VLC) into a Finder window toolbar so I don't need to drag a file down to the dock.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 19 January 2006 01:34 (fifteen years ago) link

I hate the Finder just as much as anybody whose ever used OS 9, but I still don't get quite why it matters to you so much Fandango. Is yr computer just for moving files around? Do you sit down at it, sigh and go "ahh, will move and organise some files now" then move shit around a lot?

What do you do that requires such regular Finder-ing?

stet (stet), Thursday, 19 January 2006 03:30 (fifteen years ago) link

Is there a free program I can dl so I can make business cards? I don't think Apple Works has anything?

Mary (Mary), Thursday, 19 January 2006 04:28 (fifteen years ago) link

Surely that is a project more suited for "social hacking," Mary? (i.e. get one of your friends to do it?)

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 19 January 2006 04:34 (fifteen years ago) link

Your esoteric talk confuses me. Oh, you mean a graphic designer type? These don't have to be anything special--I got the Avery cut-outs at Staples and I have an old Word on my computer, but my mom's computer which is attached to the printer only has Apple Works, and I'm too lazy to attach this computer to that printer....

Mary (Mary), Thursday, 19 January 2006 04:37 (fifteen years ago) link

googling ("business card software" macintosh) looks like it turns up lots of downloadable stuff

gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 19 January 2006 04:39 (fifteen years ago) link

(that may not be free)

gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 19 January 2006 04:41 (fifteen years ago) link

I downloaded one thing but it turned into a video game and then crashed my mom's computer, so I got a bit worried. So yeah, screw Mac!

Mary (Mary), Thursday, 19 January 2006 04:44 (fifteen years ago) link

I tried this, but then came across another wondrous piece of Apple logic. You can't name them after the file path, it only keeps the final folder name.

I don't get this, make a folder and call it whatever you want.

Here's the first thing I did. I made 2 folders, one called "applications ƒ" and one called "utilities ƒ". Note, these aren't the "official" osx applications folders. You can call these whatever...Programs and Tools or whatever. I gave them cute icons and placed them in the sidebar, the toolbar and at the end of the dock. I filled these folders with aliases of all the programs I ever use or want to use. On the dock, a simply control-click, or right click (I use a kensington trackball) gives me a pop-up menu of EVERYTHING I want. Or I just open a new window and click on the Icons and get the full list, good for adding to, or dragging on. My one MAJOR complaint is unlike with OS9 tab windows, you can't drag onto the folde in the dock to open a document in an application within.

Then on the dock itself, I keep it relatively minimal to the stuff I use all the time, and a few drag-n-drop programs like stuffit. I keep the dock on the left hand side and turned off minimizing and genie effect and all that.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 19 January 2006 05:29 (fifteen years ago) link

this one isn't super-cheap, but seems to be well-reviewed

gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 19 January 2006 05:36 (fifteen years ago) link

Thanks. I might have to spring for that. It's really annoying, cause I can't even do it on my computer because my Word is so old that it doens't have a template for the business cards that I bought--and when I tried to download the new template from Avery I couldn't convince the file to go to OS9 and not OSX.

By the way, I had the beige iBook, and shortly after I installed OSX on it, it died.

Mary (Mary), Thursday, 19 January 2006 06:03 (fifteen years ago) link

XP's 'map network drive' view is appalling, where if the directory path is longer than about 12 characters it just truncates it and there's no way of scrolling or even copy-pasting it to see the full thing.

It is indeed awful, but I think the idea is that you shouldn't have to use it very often. Particularly as XP has given up on the very annoying Win98 modal dialogs that pop up at logon for each unreachable network drive.

On XP, if you type the server's UNC path* into a Windows Explorer window and right-click on a share, "Map network drive..." is one of the menu choices. It brings up the same dialog, but with the path box filled out and uneditable. That's a slightly easier way of doing it.

* ie, the hostname preceded by '\\'

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 19 January 2006 10:37 (fifteen years ago) link

Yeah, but that requires you to be familiar with the whole UNC path. The reason it's annoying for me is that I'm not, and I'm needing to get that UNC path with all the backslashes in the right place from one computer to a colleague's (who's just complained about not having access to some server they need access to and probably did before IT did something on their computer that made them lose half their network mappings). I have to recontruct the UNC path from the info it gives you in Windows Explorer (say Archive-PDFs on gnltd-1 or whatever). It's not hard, but it involves scribbling it down on a bit of paper when all I want to do is be able to copy and paste the bloody path from my machine and email it to theirs.

Alba (Alba), Thursday, 19 January 2006 11:05 (fifteen years ago) link

The easy way to do that - if you have direct access to both machines' registries - is:

1) Open Regedit
2) Export the HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Network branch
3) Send the export file to the other computer
4) Right-click on the export file and select "Merge" to load it into the registry.

That should copy all the drive mappings from one computer to the other. If you just want to copy, say, the Z drive, export HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Network\Z.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 19 January 2006 12:11 (fifteen years ago) link

Compaq has new notebooks starting at 500$. For many of us, that is really the main reason to not go MAC. But don't you also find Steve JObs kind of annoying? At least Bill Gates has an "Evil Genius" appeal.

Latham Green (mike), Thursday, 19 January 2006 12:44 (fifteen years ago) link

i really miss the spatial solidity of os9 finder :-( but that's all

some ppl not getting this:
when you double click a folder you're not opening the folder, you're opening a little browser window that shows you what's in the folder

the key difference is that on os9 you would open a new window with the items in there showing. and the KEY thing was that the position of the window, the view into the window, and the items within that window were in EXACTLY the same place as when it was last opened, giving you a visual 1:1 identity between the folder and the view of it.

now in osx you have a ONE WINDOW approach like a web browser that shows you the stuff in any folder. when you open a folder the window shows the contents of a new location.

you can SORT OF "revert to os9" with the toolbar toggle (the long item in the top right) in that it will open new folders in a new window, but the finder broken-ness extends deep enough that you still don't get the persistence of the window loc and icon arrangement/view that you are still looking for.

LEOPARD BETTER FUCKING FIX THE FINDER

Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 19 January 2006 12:45 (fifteen years ago) link

What do people think about the idea of Finder/Explorer gradually mutating towards a database model where what you see is always like, the equivalent of Smart Playlists in iTunes (or Find Results, I guess), all folders being virtual, I guess. That seems to be the way things are heading, but at the moment we're stuck at this halfway house that angers the old-skoolers who automatically think of putting things away in tree structures, but doesn't really offer a fully intuitive alternative yet. Gmail's "search, don't sort" mantra seems relevant, too.

Alba (Alba), Thursday, 19 January 2006 13:11 (fifteen years ago) link

I think it sucks. I DO use this model in iTunes/Media Library... but only about 50% of the time. It's useful in certain situations, but I think it's wrongheaded to force this model on people.

I tried this, but then came across another wondrous piece of Apple logic. You can't name them after the file path, it only keeps the final folder name.

I don't get this, make a folder and call it whatever you want.

I might try and reproduce this so I can better explain... just scanning the thread quickly right now, thanks for all the help so far.

xpost -- Britain's Obtusest Shepherd, There's already been an upgrade (Tiger), they had a chance already, what makes you think they consider it important enough?

stet - I don't know why it pisses me off so much. Because it seems impossible to ignore I guess. I still haven't watched those DVD's anyway so I may fire it up tonight and have another look.

fandango (fandango), Thursday, 19 January 2006 13:56 (fifteen years ago) link

What do people think about the idea of Finder/Explorer gradually mutating towards a database model where what you see is always like, the equivalent of Smart Playlists in iTunes (or Find Results, I guess), all folders being virtual, I guess

brrrrrrrr. it makes me shudder - but that's 'cos i'm a) an old-skooler who cut his teeth on MS-DOS 3.1 and likes to have complete control, and b) an anally retentive pedant who gets upset if one MP3 is in the wrong place.

i don't like the fact that unix has a sprawling great mass of libraries and directories and hidden files and permissions and so on, because it does restrict my ability to organise my files as i might want, but, as i've said elsewhere, i'm happy enough to deal with it if it means the increased power and stability of OS X.

so if, like you say, this is the direction we're moving in - and, you know, you could be right - then i'd embrace it as long as there was a good reason to do so.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Thursday, 19 January 2006 14:43 (fifteen years ago) link

I'd be much happier if we didn't have to bother with files ever again. I can't see any need for it. Think of yr mobile phone -- when was the last time you backed up yr TxtMessages.SMS file? You don't: you use the phone's in-built apps, and they handle it all.

The Newton does this best of all, with all the info stored in "soups". All apps can access all soups; when you add a contact in the address book and give a birthday, the contact book automatically puts an entry in for that day, because they use the same "dates" soup. There is no file manager on the newton, and no saving. It's great.

OS X is moving slowly towards this, especially with iLife. The iApps all take care of their own files, so in theory you should never have to go into the folder where your MP3s are, or where your pictures are. For pics, If you want to email them/make a website/edit them in Photoshop/w.e., iPhoto has the skillz built in. They're integrated too, so when you want to add music to slideshows, or pics to movies, you use the media browser.

It's time that sort of thing was a system-wide framework. It's sort of like I was asking Fandango upthread -- what real use is there for the Finder? How much file-shoving do we really need that can't be better done as an integral part of apps?

For very document-based apps, like Word, you could just have open dialogs that were spotlight queries for all items of .doc, and rather than trying to remember where you put something, you remember what it contained. The anal types like GF can express themselves through meticulous tagging, to make their searches even faster.

It's time for files and their organisation to be done by the computer, not by me going click-drag-sigh.

stet (stet), Thursday, 19 January 2006 14:58 (fifteen years ago) link

Thing is, I think the "hide the files and folder" thing works great with iTunes, cause mp3s lend themselves to tagging, which then becomes the bedrock of the organisation. I'm not sure how it would work well with other files. I suppose jpgs have their EXIF files. Not that it should always need manual tagging. Hmm...

x-post

Alba (Alba), Thursday, 19 January 2006 14:59 (fifteen years ago) link

i like the concept of moving towards the database model, and will quite happily abandon folder heirarchies when it starts working well. i worry about how file exchange works without it - though getting our designers to make "hand over folders" where things are neatly structured is something of a thankless task. maybe they just love receiving a pile of stuff marked "YOU WORK IT OUT" :-(

Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 19 January 2006 15:02 (fifteen years ago) link

Is it really going to be possible to have indexed, databased filesystems be the only way the computer handles information? Wtf happens to "permissions" w/r/t to every object in the database?

TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 January 2006 15:08 (fifteen years ago) link

I basically agree. I'm a bit worried about "soup", though, just because I wonder if it hastens data's demise when the soup reader becomes obsolete. At least a file is a file. Backing up sounds more tricky too.

Alba (Alba), Thursday, 19 January 2006 15:09 (fifteen years ago) link

I don't know if you can do away with it at the system level, Tombot -- though they got rid of the majority of the /etc flat files and put it into the NetInfo database. Permissions, though, are just part of the metadata of the file like they are now.

A file isn't a file, though, Alba. Look at the hassle they're having archiving the BBC Domesday project that was written for BBC Masters and LaserDiscs. Even if they get the files off, it'll be a hell of a job decrypting them. And the really early word processor files from the days of the format wars are really hard to read.

If the "soups" (not that I'm suggesting them for OS X tho) were in XML, they'd be readable virutally forever. Backing up is also something for the computer to worry about. People should never have to worry about that shit. That can just be a search done by the computer itself, late at night: "Transmit [all stuff] changed [today] to [this server]".

stet (stet), Thursday, 19 January 2006 15:15 (fifteen years ago) link

Backing up is also something for the computer to worry about. People should never have to worry about that shit.

Well that's great in theory but what if your hard disk dies or whatever?

Alba (Alba), Thursday, 19 January 2006 15:18 (fifteen years ago) link

Computer goes "beep boop [compare] [files on backup server] and [files in tattered filesystem here] [taking the good shit off the net]" while you make some tea. Come back, and yr system is restored, hurra.

Though in time, all yr stuff will be stored online anyway, and probably the only stuff that should be on local file store will be startup and system files.

stet (stet), Thursday, 19 January 2006 15:20 (fifteen years ago) link

multimedia, compressed files and applications translate incredibly poorly to things like XML. 99% of my home computers' purpose would be obliterated by "soup."

I don't see that it's in any software engineer or hardware manufacturer's interest to ever develop a universal open standard for information and then retain complete backwards compatibility for it as technology changes, so it's a safe bet we'll never reach that point barring a discovery of an economic model that beats Adam Smith.

TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 January 2006 15:22 (fifteen years ago) link

they got rid of the majority of the /etc flat files and put it into the NetInfo database.

I knew someone who experienced the rather nasty filesystem corruption that occurred with Apple-format (HFS+) hard disks on early versions of OS X. When it reached your NetInfo database file - bang, one useless computer.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 19 January 2006 15:23 (fifteen years ago) link

man the future

RJG (RJG), Thursday, 19 January 2006 15:24 (fifteen years ago) link

all yr stuff will be stored online anyway

Do you work for Sun Microsystems? Even they couldn't get that to work, though, so I guess you don't.

Anyway, worst idea ever, gmail's nice but it's not what I would call "mission critical" and definitely the most insecure of all possible solutions to any given problem is to put it "online."

TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 January 2006 15:25 (fifteen years ago) link

hmm. computer goes "beep boop [compare] [files on backup server] and [files in tattered filesystem here] [ERROR] [overwrite all your backups with shit, or your shit with backups, or something equally horrible]". no ta.

i have two macs and one iDisk. this means i can't use backup.app, because it can't handle the concept of two machines sharing the same backup folder. i therefore have no choice but to do everything by hand. it's time-consuming, but at least i know i'm not overwriting anything important. if something fucks up, it's my fault.

christ: trust my computer to do my backups? no fucking WAY.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Thursday, 19 January 2006 15:29 (fifteen years ago) link

I don't think you need either of those things. You keep traditional files for what they're best at, but you index them in a database, which Apple's Spotlight is only a stab of a first attempt at.

You don't need an open standard at all either -- but if it's in your interests to make yr apps work with others, you'll do it. If Apple makes the iLife media browser system-wide, so that you can pop-up a palette in Word and drag one of yr pics into the doc, everyone will be clamouring to integrate it, and also to provide an uplink to it.

Look at how they're all jumping to provide Spotlight searching, even when that means drastically restructuring the app -- Entourage in particular.

xposts: you missed out the "in time" part of the quote, Tombot. It won't happen soon, but as bandwidth only gets faster, I don't see why not. Online not in this case nec. meaning "teh internet" either. Where does my address book live, for instance? It's synced almost invisibly between newton, Mail, phone and Mac.

GF: But you trust Google to back up yr mail?

stet (stet), Thursday, 19 January 2006 15:32 (fifteen years ago) link

Digression for a stupid question. What font is used in Dock icons? -- when I have new mail, Mail.app's dock icon shows a red circle with the number of new messages. What font is used in that red circle? I've been disabling fonts, and I think I've gone one too far.

truck-patch pixel farmer (my crop froze in the field) (Rock Hardy), Thursday, 19 January 2006 15:46 (fifteen years ago) link

They're not fonts. They're graphics stored in the Mail app itself.

stet (stet), Thursday, 19 January 2006 15:48 (fifteen years ago) link

But you trust Google to back up yr mail?

good point. not really. i keep meaning to download it all one day, just for keeps.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Thursday, 19 January 2006 15:50 (fifteen years ago) link

Lucida Grande is the system font

Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 19 January 2006 15:50 (fifteen years ago) link

but if you disable that you'll have even bigger troubles. It's probably either Helvetica or Helvetica neue. pre 10.4 some apps needed one or other of those to work. iCal and some other bits and pieces went to pieces without them

Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 19 January 2006 15:52 (fifteen years ago) link

I take it back, that's not true any more (about the icons)

stet (stet), Thursday, 19 January 2006 15:52 (fifteen years ago) link

Hm, I knew enough not to touch Lucida Grande, but I did disable Helv. Neue... testing...

truck-patch pixel farmer (my crop froze in the field) (Rock Hardy), Thursday, 19 January 2006 15:55 (fifteen years ago) link

that'll be it. put back helv neue. here we replace it with a postscript plain helvetica and it works ok (though the date on the iCal icon is badly set!)

Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 19 January 2006 15:59 (fifteen years ago) link

It turned out to be Helvetica, not Helv. Neue. I thought I'd turned on the Helv. family in my font mgt. app to replace the system Helvetica I'd disabled, but I had only turned on the Helvetica Condensed group.

truck-patch pixel farmer (my crop froze in the field) (Rock Hardy), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:09 (fifteen years ago) link

DO NOT TRY TO USE THE BITTORRENT CLIENT AZUREUS... last night it ate my balls like 8 times by filling memory and swap and deadlocking the computer

A BOLD QUAHOG (ex machina), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:20 (fifteen years ago) link

only use azureus if you want a specific part of the torrent - it's too bloody complex for its own good and has a hideous interface. use the regular bittorrent it's simple and unproblematic.

Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:25 (fifteen years ago) link

Yea, it has a ton of good ideas but for fucks sake, torrent start up time eats my nuts.

A BOLD QUAHOG (ex machina), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:26 (fifteen years ago) link

I suppose I might run it on a dedicated Linux crapbox if I had one, but for fucks sake, it might be the worst bloatware ever.

A BOLD QUAHOG (ex machina), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:30 (fifteen years ago) link

I use Azuereus and like the CONTROL is gives me. Don't think it's ever crashed my machine, but it does use a lot of resources. What Mac BT client do people use instead? Tried TomatoTorrent once and it was shit. Most people on oink and uknova seem to be Azureus users but I guess most are on Windows.

Alba (Alba), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:48 (fifteen years ago) link

use the regular bittorrent it's simple and unproblematic.

Oh - I guess that answers my question. I'm sure I tried that once too. I think Azureus's interface is fine.

Alba (Alba), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:49 (fifteen years ago) link

Azureus is Java? Eugh

stet (stet), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:55 (fifteen years ago) link

If it looks anything like that, double eugh. That toolbar's shit in 2 slots of 12k/s.

stet (stet), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:57 (fifteen years ago) link

To be fair, I ran a plugin update on like 30 plugins and now it crashes on startup with a runtime exception (only known because I read some log files) because it crashed last time it was trying to download the plugins and can't load them.

Who had the bright idea of making it download 30 kilobyte plugins using bit torrent? FOR FUCKS SAKE!

xpost,

stet it looks WORSE on OS X

A BOLD QUAHOG (ex machina), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:59 (fifteen years ago) link

Oh, I've just remembered that I had to manually uninstall the latest plug-in update cause it was somehow fucking with my port forwarding. Maybe I will try the standard BT client again.

Alba (Alba), Thursday, 19 January 2006 17:01 (fifteen years ago) link

yeah; azureus was the main reason I stopped downloading torrents; v.slow and v.ugly and even managed to crash my machine a couple of times

cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 19 January 2006 17:27 (fifteen years ago) link

It's ugly and unMac-like, but the interface seems intuitive to me. Unlike SoulSeeX and all its stupid multiple windows, say. I like being able to sort torrents however I want, examine their contents, throttle down the up and download speeds on individual torrents, etc. Maybe all clients allow you to do this, though.

Alba (Alba), Thursday, 19 January 2006 17:34 (fifteen years ago) link

for fucks sake though, there's so much wrong with it. it couldn't handle like 3 torrents and the official client can handle dozens no problem


I blame JAVA.

A BOLD QUAHOG (ex machina), Thursday, 19 January 2006 17:36 (fifteen years ago) link

bit torrent hint: change your port as a lot of isps filter their users from connecting to the default bt ports

A BOLD QUAHOG (ex machina), Thursday, 19 January 2006 17:36 (fifteen years ago) link

it couldn't handle like 3 torrents and the official client can handle dozens no problem

OK, I have no idea what's going on here - I often have 20 or more on the go no problem.

Alba (Alba), Thursday, 19 January 2006 17:38 (fifteen years ago) link

I seem to be playing the role of Pollyannaish computer enthusiast with no problems today. I'll probably get home and discover Azureus and the Finder have conspired to devour my home.

Alba (Alba), Thursday, 19 January 2006 17:43 (fifteen years ago) link

saddest thing about using azureus is watching those block requests fill in bit by bit. "oo, another 4M"

Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 19 January 2006 17:49 (fifteen years ago) link

FWIW! Azareus didn't have any problems until I tried to install all the plugins

A BOLD QUAHOG (ex machina), Thursday, 19 January 2006 18:07 (fifteen years ago) link

What do people think about the idea of Finder/Explorer gradually mutating towards a database model where what you see is always like, the equivalent of Smart Playlists in iTunes (or Find Results, I guess).

Is Explorer (or Windows) heading in this direction though? I know they've stolen cues from Apple in the past but I can't see them letting old users go f*ck themselves like seems to be the case with OS X.

I think I don't like my computer making me it's bitch via substandard 'browsing'/database uber alles/shitty jack-of-all, master-of-none apps.

fandango (fandango), Thursday, 19 January 2006 19:24 (fifteen years ago) link

What Mac BT client do people use instead?

Azareus was problematic for me. ThenI was using Bits On Wheels for a bit, but I switched to TorrentStation and liked it so much I actually bought a copy.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 19 January 2006 19:31 (fifteen years ago) link

xpost:

Windows is supposed to be heading in that direction soon. The first big steps that way are going to be made in the Vista interface, which may well get backported to XP if noone bothers to buy Vista much.

Originally, this was going to tie in with the full release of WinFS, which should make it easier and more efficient to do that kind of thing. And WinFS is going to be released real soon now. Honest. No, really. Hahahah.

(Microsoft have been promising it for well over ten years - according to Wikipedia, it was originally going to be released with NT4)

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 19 January 2006 19:35 (fifteen years ago) link

in Explorer on XP, if there's a folder with pictures in it, I can see small thumbnails of those pictures on the large icon of the folder. I can drag and drop things basically to my hearts' content, and it's easy to tell when it's going to copy something or move it just by looking at the cursor. I can arrange things basically any way I want, change the look and feel a pretty hefty amount right out of the box to suit my liking, and when you integrate all the things that Office apps can do together relatively seamlessly and with pretty frightening speed it really makes Apple's Finder + iWork look like shiiiiiiiiiiit.

The search speed on local disks is about the same for the Finder and Explorer; Explorer does pretty readily let you search on keywords in the content and all metadata fields for any file, though, which is pretty impressive.

YMMV as always, I'm just saying.

TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 January 2006 19:56 (fifteen years ago) link

I've found that content search in Explorer is *very* slow, personally - especially when you're searching things on mapped network drives.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 19 January 2006 20:29 (fifteen years ago) link

System wide file search in Explorer/Windows is appallingly slow & poor. In fact it seemed to get much worse in XP (though the old app is probably still about in some system folder... I should find that actually).

But then the file browser isn't horribly broken. So you can get by without ever needing to use search 99% of the time!

fandango (fandango), Thursday, 19 January 2006 20:39 (fifteen years ago) link

System-wide file search is awful on XP because the search applet searches the contents of archive files like .zip and .cab files, and a default XP installation will have a copy of most of the .cab files from the installation CD, all large and slow to search.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 19 January 2006 21:22 (fifteen years ago) link

in Explorer on XP, if there's a folder with pictures in it, I can see small thumbnails of those pictures on the large icon of the folder

when i saw this on the vista install we have i laffed and for the first time used the expression "that's so gay" in front of work colleagues.

Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 19 January 2006 22:33 (fifteen years ago) link

Any idea how I can remove the seemingly permanent dark smudges on either side of the iBook mouse (above the mother board of whatever you people call that thing) that make it appear as if a Victorian street urchin has been playing on my computer?

Mary (Mary), Friday, 20 January 2006 05:34 (fifteen years ago) link

I'm over in the states next month and considering bying a MacBook Pro (I knwo, never by Rev A products, but damnit I need a new computer).

However, does ayone know if VMWare are going to produce a product for OS X on intel. If I can run windows apps from within the OS (with good access to the graphics card) then I can run my work apps and persuade work to contribute to the cost of the machine.

Not just VMWare, you understand, but the demo versions of our video apps need a fair bit of graphics power, or rather, fast graphics memory to work well.

Ed (dali), Friday, 20 January 2006 08:37 (fifteen years ago) link

my ipod died, so i sent it to california. they sent me a new ipod from taiwan. got here in 48 hours! too bad it's also dead. tomorrow i'm taking it to the local "genius bar" where it apparently costs $99 for the priviledge of making reservations for service more than 24 hours in advance. since i only spent $59 on applecare, i have to hang out at the mall and take my chances.

i'm thinking about hating apple.

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Friday, 20 January 2006 10:53 (fifteen years ago) link

privilege? yes.

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Friday, 20 January 2006 10:54 (fifteen years ago) link

the iBook mouse (above the mother board of whatever you people call that thing)

by mouse do you mean trackpad? a slightly damp - not wet, just slightly damp - cloth should do the trick. don't use any cleaning products.

i'm not even going to ask where the motherboard comes into this.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Friday, 20 January 2006 12:12 (fifteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...
I dislike apple computers because they are so freaking expensive, slow, and some are even dangerous! A while back, some G4's started having problems with capacitors on the motherboard EXPLODING. The exploding part wasn't really the problem, it was after it exploded that the computer (if you can even call it that) would short out on the pieces of metal stiking out of the capacitors, and overheat. More dangerous stuff! Sometimes the adaptor for the powerbook will catch on fire! And notice how Apple doesn't seem to ever tell anyone about these things? And why are they so expensive and slow? My 8 year old laptop is 66mhz slower than [i forget which model exactly] a powerbook, has the same amount of RAM and cost me $2970 less than the apple? And what about how the ipod's battery only lasts a few months, and the only way to replace it is to send it to apple and pay a huge fee, or open it yourself, void the warranty, and likely screw it up? I could keep going on, but I would fill the server with SO MUCH crap apple doesn't want you to know that they'd have no room for anything else...

I dislike apple a lot, Friday, 10 February 2006 02:41 (fourteen years ago) link

Mary, I have those smudges, too. I haven't found a good way to take them off yet, and I've been trying. One of the big downsides of having a white computer, really.

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Friday, 10 February 2006 04:07 (fourteen years ago) link

I just got a Compaq after having one trouble free for five years. SO far so good, at about a third the cost of a mac.

Mr Jones (Mr Jones), Friday, 10 February 2006 06:52 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't think you can say that Apple are particularly dangerous compared to other computers. After all, Microsoft had that problem with Xbox power cords overheating, which (as far as I remember) caused at least one fire. And "explosion" is the standard failure mode for capacitors in any case.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Friday, 10 February 2006 07:25 (fourteen years ago) link

Never mind exploding computers. You know what else Apple are responsible for? ASTROTURF.

Alba (Alba), Friday, 10 February 2006 07:43 (fourteen years ago) link

re: smudges - the brasso method perhaps?

http://todd.dailey.info/archives/2005/09/27/restore-your-ipod-nano-to-new-condition-with-a-4-can-of-brasso/

I can vouch for this since last night... my nano looks a lot better now, but quite not perfect. I got bored, frankly, it takes AGES to work, but in *most* lights it now looks nearly new again, or rather used (if you stare hard) but not abused.

Worked on my phone display too.

fandango (fandango), Friday, 10 February 2006 09:57 (fourteen years ago) link

I got the Mr. Clean Magic Eraser, and it worked perfectly. It took like 2 seconds, seriously.

Mickey (modestmickey), Friday, 10 February 2006 16:30 (fourteen years ago) link

O RLY?

fandango (fandango), Saturday, 11 February 2006 14:52 (fourteen years ago) link

b65641@yahoo.com is absolutely right. i slammed my cock repeatedly in my powerbook and it broke (both my cock and the powerbook). HOW DARE APPLE NOT TELL ME HOW DANGEROUS THIS WAS. etc.

i dunno. i can kind of understand fanatical devotion to a product ... but fanatical hatred? get one life, muppets!

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Saturday, 11 February 2006 16:06 (fourteen years ago) link

OK, I just updated to Tiger 1.4.5, and now my G4 now longer recognizes the bloody iPod Shuffle. For shits and giggles, I just put iTunes on my PC, and guess what? IT sees the Shuffle.

I'm going to the pub now.

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Thursday, 16 February 2006 23:08 (fourteen years ago) link

ipod updater?

A BOLD QUAHOG (ex machina), Friday, 17 February 2006 04:55 (fourteen years ago) link

iPod Updater isn't doing anything. I checked system profiler and the Mac just plain doesn't see the Shuffle. This is a right royal pain in the arse. This is a *replacement unit* for fuck's sake, and now the online support is telling me that, based on my serial number, I no longer qualify for Applecare. That can't be right - time to bust out my paperwork and call Apple tomorrow. Fuckity fuck fuck.

I just plugged it into the PC for shits and giggles and it launches iTunes right away. GAH.

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 17 February 2006 05:00 (fourteen years ago) link

A lot of shitting and giggling there. Lord, I'm tired.

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 17 February 2006 05:01 (fourteen years ago) link

Apple is too expensive PERIOD! My Compaq was only 450$ so if it totally craps the bed I am not out $1200 !!!!

Mr Jones (Mr Jones), Friday, 17 February 2006 05:43 (fourteen years ago) link

I know it's been said a million times before, but at least before these new intel machines, you couldn't compare the speed of PCs and Macs in mhz, as the architecture was so different.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 17 February 2006 05:52 (fourteen years ago) link

Well, I've managed to register this Shuffle as defective, using my original date of purchase (about 11 months ago). They'd better goddamned well replace it, too.

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 17 February 2006 06:12 (fourteen years ago) link

I know it's been said a million times before, but at least before these new intel machines, you couldn't compare the speed of PCs and Macs in mhz, as the architecture was so different.

yea and now we get to compare dual core to single core! yay!

A BOLD QUAHOG (ex machina), Friday, 17 February 2006 06:51 (fourteen years ago) link

I just plugged it into the PC for shits and giggles and it launches iTunes right away. GAH.

I've been through a lot of phases with personal computers. First I used Apples, because it was 1986 and using an IBM would have been really weird for an 11 year old. Then I used PCs, because it was 1996 and Macintoshes were, for all intents and purposes, made by Fisher Price. They were hilarious to anyone who wanted to DO anything with a personal computer... like play games, or make music, or expand the capacity of thier machines, or really anything. This went on for a long time.

pple OS 9 made it seem for a while like maybe it was the best OS, like maybe there were things you could do with an Apple that you could never do elsewhere. This thinking lasted for about four years, give or take. It was a silly fantasy. Apple never cornered any market here, it just claimed to. Plus, they charged an arm and a frickin' leg for their computers.

So now I have a PC, and I do a lot of the kind of work that makes people ask why I don't have an Apple. I draw and I make pictures and I Photoshop my ass off. I like my PC for that, not because it's necessarily better than an Apple, but because it's about a thousand dollars less for the same computer.

Apple zealots are wrong. Apple is not about being better, it's about being a goddamn control freak company that rushes inferior products to market (same as that other company that you hate so much) and selling you a brand before they sell you a usable product. This is not only true of the iPod (though that's an especially painful example), it's true of every product they've released for the past three years. They're a bunch of goddamn scheisters.

Same as anyone. Your computer is a gamble. You should know that going in.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Friday, 17 February 2006 07:27 (fourteen years ago) link

From this thread and others it seems that Apple users waste a LOT mroe time fiddling around with their OS than PC users.

mei (mei), Friday, 17 February 2006 09:51 (fourteen years ago) link

I am happy now cos I can use Anapod instead of Itunes! Yay!

I don't hate Apple per se, just that crappy program.

Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Friday, 17 February 2006 10:17 (fourteen years ago) link

Apple zealots are wrong. Apple is not about being better, it's about being a goddamn control freak company that rushes inferior products to market (same as that other company that you hate so much) and selling you a brand before they sell you a usable product. This is not only true of the iPod (though that's an especially painful example), it's true of every product they've released for the past three years. They're a bunch of goddamn scheisters.

Now that I've been to bed:

I'm not an Apple zealot, and never really have been. Actually, Mac-versus-Windows is a debate that I refuse to participate in. I own an Apple because that's what I learned to make music on - I've been using Logic Audio in its various incarnations for well over a decade, and to me, there's simply nothing better out there for my needs. (I personally don't care for the Pro Tools interface, even though it's an industry standard.)
But I also have a homemade Windows box that I use strictly as a virtual synth unit, and because it's purpose-built, it's rock-solid. (*Touches wood for good luck.*)

Moreover, until recently, I made my living setting up computers (both Mac and PC) for digital audio recording. My experience is that no platform is ideal - there are far too many variables for things to run smoothly all the time. All computers crash, and I've even seen identical setups exhibit wildly different behavior.

What Apple are guilty of is not scheisterism but inconsistency. They've grown exponentially in the last six years, and are rushing to catch up with their demand. The few times I've actually needed service, they've been more than helpful, and in all likelihood, I will get my Shuffle replaced without hassle.

Simply put, Apple-bashing is just as lame as Windows-bashing.

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 17 February 2006 12:53 (fourteen years ago) link

Apple never cornered any market? Please, I've worked in the advertising/design/pre-press/printing industries since 1997, and used computers for layout in schools since 1989, and nobody has used anything but Apple. It's all the same now, I'm not denying that, it's not like photoshop or quark or indesign look or work any different on either machine, but these industries are completely dominated by apple, at least in the US. The only aspect they didn't corner was text-book publishing and the like because pc's had better software for that for ages. Hilarious to anyone who wanted to make music? Most recording studios I've ever been to STILL are mac based.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 17 February 2006 14:19 (fourteen years ago) link

Mary, I have those smudges, too. I haven't found a good way to take them off yet, and I've been trying.

Regular (clean!) pencil erasers worked for a friend of mine.

Allyzay Rofflesberger (allyzay), Friday, 17 February 2006 16:50 (fourteen years ago) link

10.4 really does suck cocks in hell, doesn't it?

the only reason i upgraded was to get my new mobile phone to work. woo, i thought at first, look at all these whizzy features.

little did i realise it'd be so fucking slow-ass and pointlessly buggy. for no apparent reason, the user drop-down just disappeared from the menu bar; i had to log out and back in again for it to reappear.

10.3.9 rocked. two weeks of 10.4.4 has been painful. i sincerely hope the 10.4.5 upgrade fixes some of this ... but then given that i read a thread this afternoon about how it stopped someone's iPod working, i'm kinda apprehensive.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Friday, 17 February 2006 23:01 (fourteen years ago) link

Azureus performance tip that I only just now realized... Go to /Utilities/Java/J2SE 5.0/ and open up "Java Preferences." Change your runtime settings from J2SE 1.4.2 to J2SE 5.0. Close and then fire up Azureus again.

Runs significantly better now.

The Equator Lounge (Chris Barrus), Saturday, 18 February 2006 02:27 (fourteen years ago) link

two weeks pass...
fucking HELL.

so i've bought some memory for the powerbook in the hope that might make the experience of using 10.4 marginally less painful.

and i discover that, in order to install it, i need a philips size 00 screwdriver.

because yes, of fucking COURSE i have one of those knocking around the place. can't move for fucking tiny jewellers' screwdrivers round this gaff.

JESUS CHRIST, apple, what the FUCK is wrong with using a marginally more sensible size of screw?

nobody i know has got one of these fucking things either, so i'm going to have to buy one. i think i'll send it to apple when i'm done with a note saying: "dear steve jobs. shove this RIGHT up your arse, you cunt."

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 21:16 (fourteen years ago) link

Haha I have the screwdriver you need, I had to buy one too, for the SAME STUPID FUCKING REASON.

TOMBOT, Tuesday, 7 March 2006 21:27 (fourteen years ago) link

You can use Tweezers

R.I.P. Concrete Octopus ]-`: (ex machina), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 22:01 (fourteen years ago) link

Or a hammer.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 22:25 (fourteen years ago) link

i tried tweezers but the screws are fucking tight and i don't want to knacker the heads. and yes, when i was emptying out my tool box - just in case i could find such a screwdriver - i came across a small rubber mallet. and just for a split second, i did consider ...

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 22:39 (fourteen years ago) link

I have one because my glasses always fall apart.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 22:40 (fourteen years ago) link

I had the same problem. Bought a 00 screwdriver and the screw was too shallow to take it. Had to borrow someone else's to get the job done.

Greig (treefell), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 23:19 (fourteen years ago) link

oh, rats' cocks. christ.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 23:55 (fourteen years ago) link

If you've ever worn glasses on a daily basis you will have one of these screwdrivers. Also, they come in Christmas crackers.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 06:39 (fourteen years ago) link

I also had to buy a pack of tiny screwdrivers. But they've come in handy for other things, so I'm not too upset.

Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 06:41 (fourteen years ago) link

If you've ever worn glasses on a daily basis you will have one of these screwdrivers. Also, they come in Christmas crackers.

i don't wear glasses. mrs fiendish does, but a) she's away in england and b) she doesn't have such a thing anyway. nor, it seems, do any of my speccy chums.

and, oddly, i don't tend to keep the ephemera that falls out of xmas crackers, thinking: "gosh, one day this 50p piece of crap will come in very useful when i need to put £38 worth of memory into £1200 worth of computer."

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 09:20 (fourteen years ago) link

Do you know any woodwind musicians? They're liable to have one hanging about too.

(I have been known to keep the tiny screwdriver sets you get in christmas crackers, so I have one for my glasses case, one in my main clarinet case, one in the spare clarinet case, etc etc etc)

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 09:29 (fourteen years ago) link

Do you know any woodwind musicians

not really. i know a couple of fiddlers and a lot of people who blow. but that's it.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 09:32 (fourteen years ago) link

Don't we all!

Clockmakers? Scale modellers?

(you can tell I'm barrel-scraping here)

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 09:34 (fourteen years ago) link

I am clearly in a minority of people who think it unthinkable that anyone woyuld not have a full set of Philips, Flat head and Pozidrive, scredrivers and driver bits (I have various torx and security screw bits as well but I don't expect everyone to have the same perversions). (All hail the PZ2)

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 09:39 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah well my pbook's hard drive fried out this evening so you can take your little screwdriver problem and stick it up your fucking ass have some perspective on the issue.

geoff (gcannon), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 09:41 (fourteen years ago) link

i'm not laughing. i'm not. i'm ... grimacing as i share your pain.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 10:15 (fourteen years ago) link

I've got one Simon, that I bought at a supermarket checkout in NYC, thinking "that'll be handy". It is! I'll bring it into work and you can borrow it. Be in from 12.30.

Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 11:05 (fourteen years ago) link

No, wait, I haven't. It's not a Philips head. But I'll bring it in anyway because I've definitely used it on tiny Philips screws before. Well, you can have a look.

Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 11:08 (fourteen years ago) link

using a pozidrive scredriver on a phillips screw make baby jesus cry

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 11:09 (fourteen years ago) link

alba, that's kind of you ... but i'm going to crockett the ironmonger at lunchtime to point gruffly at bits of metal and pretend i know what the fuck i'm talking about.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 11:12 (fourteen years ago) link

If you've ever worn glasses on a daily basis you will have one of these screwdrivers.

But no glasses I've ever had have had Philips screws. But my regular (they're called "pozidrive"¿?) mini screwdriver was originally bought for this purpose, yes.

Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 11:15 (fourteen years ago) link

pozidrive is also cross head but with intermediateflashes to prevent cam out.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 11:24 (fourteen years ago) link

right.

Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 11:32 (fourteen years ago) link

http://www.ewbc.de/onlinelearning/eopt/data/en/11259.gif

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 11:33 (fourteen years ago) link

I hate cam out!

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 11:38 (fourteen years ago) link

following a lengthy trudge around glasgow city centre, i am now the proud (?) owner of a 15-piece "precision screwdriver set".

one for me; 14 for mr jobs's rectum.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 16:00 (fourteen years ago) link

hope it works

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 16:01 (fourteen years ago) link

if it doesn't, there'll be a powerbook for sale on here tomorrow. and i'll be off out to buy a sony vaio.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 16:16 (fourteen years ago) link

I THOUGHT I had a full set as Ed states until I tried to upgrade my RAM.
I even have an eyeglass kit and the bits in there didn't work. That #00 is a bitch.

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 8 March 2006 16:19 (fourteen years ago) link

xpost

If you're going to get a pc laptop at least get a decnt one like a samsung or a lenovo.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 16:19 (fourteen years ago) link

ooh, thanks for the tip. it might just come to that.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 16:28 (fourteen years ago) link

The guys at Penny Arcade, longstanding Windows enthusiasts, have now decided that OS X is a free lifetime supply of blowjobs, confirming that everything that made the mac great in my eyes is completely eradicated and I should just get on with my life.

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 8 March 2006 16:30 (fourteen years ago) link

x-post

Ed - are you suggesting that Sony Vaio isn't a decent laptop? Or that Samsung is better? (genuinely curious as I've considered getting one)

Bob Six (bobbysix), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 16:34 (fourteen years ago) link

Build quality on Vaios is suspect and they never fit decent graphics chips which could be a bother if you plan to upgrade to Windows Vista.

Samsungs seem to be well built, well specced and good value. Lenovo's are known for bombproof reliability and build. Best tiny sub-notebook is a fujitsu-siemens.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 16:37 (fourteen years ago) link

Yeah also never buy Sony unless your life is being threatened. I mean if you want to give yourself 500 immediate reasons to go right back to Apple and be happy about it, yeah, buy Sony.

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 8 March 2006 16:39 (fourteen years ago) link

actually, a friend of mine did exactly this. he lost his rag with his new iBook, bought a vaio ... and took it straight back to the shop within 12 hours.

i think he came back with a pencil and a notepad.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 16:47 (fourteen years ago) link

yay screwdriver. yay extra memory. yay for a powerbook that flies.

10.4 still eats ass, though.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 18:17 (fourteen years ago) link

how does one (easily) insert non-keyboard ascii characters on a mac (like ALT-asciicode on a pc)? i can't find no character map; all i can do is go into word and insert symbol then copy/paste...

mookieproof (mookieproof), Thursday, 9 March 2006 17:04 (fourteen years ago) link

Most of them are some combination of option and other keys to find out what they are the is a little app called KeyCaps or Keyboard or some such in the utilities folder which shows you what the modifier keys do.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 9 March 2006 17:08 (fourteen years ago) link

thanks!

mookieproof (mookieproof), Thursday, 9 March 2006 17:09 (fourteen years ago) link

alt + various (sensible and non-ascii) key combinations. eg alt+e primes it to put an acute diacritic on the next character you type; alt+u primes it for an umlaut, etc.

x-post

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Thursday, 9 March 2006 17:09 (fourteen years ago) link

there must be a list of these somewhere but i'm fucked if i can find one after a five-second google.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Thursday, 9 March 2006 17:10 (fourteen years ago) link

Alternatively, you can go to System Preferences -> International -> Input Menu tab and check the Character Palette on. You'll get a new menu item with a flag and then select "Character Palette" from it.

The Equator Lounge (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 9 March 2006 20:45 (fourteen years ago) link

could somebody tell me what's up w/ my powerbook?

every time it wakes up from sleep, it wants to configure a bluetooth keyboard. also, every time it wakes up, the audio balance is set to Left 100%.

vahid (vahid), Monday, 20 March 2006 20:35 (fourteen years ago) link

maybe it senses your right ear is deaf?

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Monday, 20 March 2006 20:39 (fourteen years ago) link

I was having a weird audio issue like that and eventually chalked it up to somehow hitting the key combination that changes audio balance! It's stopped doing it, but I have no idea what I was hitting. Presumably a key combination in iTunes.

mike h. (mike h.), Monday, 20 March 2006 21:02 (fourteen years ago) link

you are all gay
every time it wakes up, the audio balance is set to Left 100%.

this has happened to me for years, i think it's something to do with my cheapo Edirol audio interface, but it's incredibly annoying and i'm amazed it's gone on for so long with no fix.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 20 March 2006 21:08 (fourteen years ago) link

vahid (vahid), Monday, 20 March 2006 21:23 (fourteen years ago) link

every time it wakes up from sleep, it wants to configure a bluetooth keyboard.

Go into System Preferences -> Keyboard & Mouse -> Bluetooth tab. Uncheck "Allow Bluetooth devices to wake this computer"

The Equator Lounge (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 02:18 (fourteen years ago) link

aha. thanks. how about the balance problem?

vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 05:43 (fourteen years ago) link

aha. thanks. how about the balance problem?

What version of iTunes are you on?

The Equator Lounge (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 01:05 (fourteen years ago) link

all fucking versions

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 01:13 (fourteen years ago) link

my ire is not directed at you chris ... fairly certain it has to do w/system prefs, at least that's where i always go to re-balance the output

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 01:14 (fourteen years ago) link

So for the first time in a very long time I had to admit defeat and replace Apple hardware with something else.

I've been struggling with a 14TB (yes terabyte) Xsan network with anywhere from 3 to 4 million files on it. This isn't really even an extreme case, it's a high-traffic printer that is routinely dealing with hundreds of thousands of ginormious files. Anyway, files are getting corrupted, two brand-new Xserve controllers are going deaf, and just imagine even trying to use Spotlight on several million files. And Apple's enterprise-level support? HA!

I love my PowerBook, but I also love the new Sun SunFile T2000 server I just installed here too.

The Equator Lounge (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 01:19 (fourteen years ago) link

my ire is not directed at you chris ... fairly certain it has to do w/system prefs, at least that's where i always go to re-balance the output

There was actually some audio balance bugs fixed in the 6.0.3 update to iTunes. The fix was reportedly specific to people using the Airport Express "play-through" option, but it supposedly helped other folks having similar issues.

The Equator Lounge (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 01:21 (fourteen years ago) link

actually, a friend of mine did exactly this. he lost his rag with his new iBook, bought a vaio ... and took it straight back to the shop within 12 hours.
i think he came back with a pencil and a notepad.

-- grimly fiendish (simonmai...), March 8th, 2006 4:47 PM. (grimlord) (link)

did he come back with one of these??
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0811831434/002-9196454-6764004?v=glance&n=283155

ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 01:39 (fourteen years ago) link

xpost yes, i actually almost never use itunes, though i'll try the itunes update and see what happens.

vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 05:24 (fourteen years ago) link

Tracer, I think tjere was a firmware patch for your generqtion of powerbook that fixed some audio issues.

Quartz, what issues did you have with xsan? We've had no issues with ours, however we're in video with fewer but very large files to deal with. I find 10.4.4 and xsan 1.2 to be very stable under these conditions even serving files over dmb to windows clients which was a major weakspot of earlier versions.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 06:08 (fourteen years ago) link

Quartz, what issues did you have with xsan?

Two main problems. One was EOF errors with some Adobe CS2 files and the second problem was just the sheer number of files - roughly 3 to 4 million, but always constantly changing. Set-up and the initial couple of days would be terrific and then files would disappear and cvfsck would report a file system corruption error.

File searching was another story. Forget Spotlight, I ended up having to write an Automator script that would write out the contents of the drive to a FileMaker file and have people search that instead.

The Equator Lounge (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 15:26 (fourteen years ago) link

"One was EOF errors with some Adobe CS2 files" - just checking that this isn't users opening files across the network. this is something not recommended by Adobe on any of their applications on any AFP service. (same goes for Quark BTW tho that problem shows up more often enough for users to end up bitten and twice shy by it right off)

Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 15:37 (fourteen years ago) link

this may be of some use: web interface to a server spotlight http://searchlightrss.com/

Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 15:41 (fourteen years ago) link

we have our own media library app to catalogue stuff on both mac and windows servers, it does more than just provide a search function but gets round the problems inherrent in searching large volumes across the network.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 15:58 (fourteen years ago) link

i just tried out that searchlight service on our toy tiger server and it's looking pretty smart

Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 16:01 (fourteen years ago) link

That looks very cute

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 16:13 (fourteen years ago) link

they just got bonus points cos the page appeared in my bonjour bookmarks! not that that's any use when a real server won't be in the same VLAN. but still.

Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 16:27 (fourteen years ago) link

I wish Apple offered OS X Server as an option on all the non-notebooks. I am using a nu-iMac as a dev server / desktop and would have appreciated some of the features

R.I.P. West Village Bird Shaman ]-`: (ex machina), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 17:34 (fourteen years ago) link

do the server install disks just say "nuh uh, not on this you don't!" with an imac?

Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 17:38 (fourteen years ago) link

My home server is an iMac G3 running panther server. I must try tiger server on it.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 17:40 (fourteen years ago) link

but yes, a BTO option would be good, especially for the Mac Minis.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 17:43 (fourteen years ago) link

do the server install disks just say "nuh uh, not on this you don't!" with an imac?

Eh, I doubt it but:

#1 No intel os X server
#2 No one likes paying 2x
#3 It is "good enough"

R.I.P. West Village Bird Shaman ]-`: (ex machina), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 21:31 (fourteen years ago) link

Of course with OS X server, what you are mainly paying for is the admin tools. Most of it is open-source stuff any way. OS X client plus fink and phpmyadmin is not a bad second guess (insert favourite package manager or source compiles and admin tools where applicable)

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 21:35 (fourteen years ago) link

PhpMyAdmin is for administering MySQL not Unixland, MORON.

R.I.P. West Village Bird Shaman ]-`: (ex machina), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 21:37 (fourteen years ago) link

But you're right, I figure most of the hard stuff out anyway.

R.I.P. West Village Bird Shaman ]-`: (ex machina), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 21:40 (fourteen years ago) link

I meant webmin, but you get the general idea.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 21:47 (fourteen years ago) link

Webmin is useful for some things, but I'd never try to use it as my primary server config tool. It's just too rough around the edges.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 21:51 (fourteen years ago) link

I really don't like a lot of automated tools for that kind of stuff. I got burned way too many times back in the RH5.2 era.

Anyone here use Subversion or something like it to manage config files?

R.I.P. West Village Bird Shaman ]-`: (ex machina), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 21:54 (fourteen years ago) link

I've not had to touch it in a long while, you're probably right, no good for production, but for home server, or even workgroup, good enough. All the servers I have to deal with are OS X (lovely admin tools) or win 2000/2003 (not bad really but really really inconsistent)

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 21:57 (fourteen years ago) link

That admin thing that works over the network in win2k is the jam.

R.I.P. West Village Bird Shaman ]-`: (ex machina), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 21:58 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't like the admin tools on Windows at all. Their entire design strategy: put any important settings in the same size of dialog box. If the box isn't big enough, add another tab!

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 22:01 (fourteen years ago) link

this may be of some use: web interface to a server spotlight http://searchlightrss.com/

That's really kinda cool. I'll check it out some though I think it was a little too late. One thing I didn't mention was that there was an outside IT consultant who wanted to toss the whole works for a Windows server, so at least I convinced him to stay with *nix.

sigh

The Equator Lounge (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 23:24 (fourteen years ago) link

Small mercy there then, the windows networking stack is shockingly slow.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 23 March 2006 06:27 (fourteen years ago) link

Is it really that bad? Or do you mean windows filesharing instead of TCP/IP?

Do they even do zero copy sockets? Do they have sendfile()? Pretty sad that the only way for IIS to come close to smoking Apache at static content was for them to integrate parts of it into the kernel..

R.I.P. West Village Bird Shaman ]-`: (ex machina), Thursday, 23 March 2006 06:38 (fourteen years ago) link

Both nfs and smb sharing from windows are significantly slower that *nix on the same hardware (this was with a live cd used for testing and the same ntfs volume used for source material, mixed win2k and xp clients, mixed gigabit and 100 megabit infrastructure). Its not conclusively the networking stack but the result is much the same.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 23 March 2006 06:46 (fourteen years ago) link

yea, I'm not surprised.

R.I.P. West Village Bird Shaman ]-`: (ex machina), Thursday, 23 March 2006 06:57 (fourteen years ago) link

My own experience is that SMB sharing is significantly slower on Windows than with Samba on Linux. Using a properly-optimised ext3 volume to store the files on instead of NTFS gives Linux a second speed advantage, too.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 23 March 2006 07:00 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't know why people deploy ext3 when reiser etc are available.

R.I.P. West Village Bird Shaman ]-`: (ex machina), Thursday, 23 March 2006 07:03 (fourteen years ago) link

I HATE APPLE AND SUNN O)))

So in the processing of keeping up iTunes with my CD collection, I tried to rip Sunn O)))'s "Black One" about an hour ago. Now, my iBook won't spit the CD back out. It's little motor tries and tries and then gives up and re-loads the CD in iTunes. Fuck.

Already called AppleCare and they couldn't figure out anything. They just told me to either mail it in or take it to an Apple store. So, any tips before I make the long trek tomorrow morning? Sigh.

Mickey (modestmickey), Sunday, 26 March 2006 21:34 (fourteen years ago) link

Did you put a shaped or a spraypainted cd in? I don't have Black1

R.I.P. West Village Bird Shaman ]-`: (ex machina), Sunday, 26 March 2006 21:53 (fourteen years ago) link

our imac loves to eat Cds

Mr Jones (Mr Jones), Sunday, 26 March 2006 22:22 (fourteen years ago) link

Mickey did you try starting up your iBook while holding down the eject key?

jed_ (jed), Sunday, 26 March 2006 22:30 (fourteen years ago) link

or the mouse button

stet (stet), Sunday, 26 March 2006 22:32 (fourteen years ago) link

jed, stet, just tried that. No go.

This CD won't fucking come out. Any other ideas before I take it to the shop?

Mickey (modestmickey), Monday, 27 March 2006 00:51 (fourteen years ago) link

Haha ok I just got it fixed. For anybody else who encounters this, here was the solution. I found it on this article:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=1777942�

I know this sounds completely stupid but...

I tried to insert one of those small CDs into my iBook's drive hoping it would pull it in an read it like a normal cd by now its stuck inside. Should I bring it into the Apple Store to have it taken out or is there a much easier way for me to get it out such as tweezers or something? I really don't want to have to leave it at the store as I need it for school but I need the drive working. Thank you for any assistance!

For the record, I was not stupid enough to try putting an abnormally sized CD in the drive.

Ok oddly my father told me to hold it up, turn it sideways with the drive opening facing down and shake it once. The cd popped enough out to grab onto it and take it completely out. lWOw problem solved quickly hehe.

But this did work. I held the computer sideways and tried to eject it while shaking and it came right out. Man.

Mickey (modestmickey), Monday, 27 March 2006 01:17 (fourteen years ago) link

my ipod died today :-(

tehresa (tehresa), Monday, 27 March 2006 02:26 (fourteen years ago) link

RIP

latebloomer: My name *COCKS SHOTGUN* is Horace! (latebloomer), Monday, 27 March 2006 02:34 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't know why people deploy ext3 when reiser etc are available.

Because ext3 is better for the job, obv. It's more reliable than reiserfs, performs much better (IMX) on large files, and doesn't have much that reiserfs doesn't have.

I might consider using XFS if I had a system on a very reliable UPS that I was sure wouldn't go down unexpectedly. Not otherwise, though - if a machine gets turned off with XFS filesystems mounted, you *will* lose data. What other serious alternatives on Linux are there?

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Monday, 27 March 2006 05:11 (fourteen years ago) link

no, you must use the most l33t homebrew unproven OSS filesystem you can find.

Ed (dali), Monday, 27 March 2006 05:14 (fourteen years ago) link

Hahaha! Sorry, Ed, I was forgetting :-)

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Monday, 27 March 2006 05:28 (fourteen years ago) link

I love that Newtonian physics still applies to some bogaboos of modern computing technology.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 27 March 2006 05:31 (fourteen years ago) link

In fact why haven't you written your own, mine uses the bubbles in roquefort cheese as a model for byte storage.

Ed (dali), Monday, 27 March 2006 05:32 (fourteen years ago) link

er BUGaboos

xpost!!

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 27 March 2006 05:32 (fourteen years ago) link

Ed I was about to ask why you are up this early, but I forgot about the time changing over there.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 27 March 2006 05:33 (fourteen years ago) link

I should have left to work by now, but there was some cold speck, pancetta and porcini pizza to deal with.

Ed (dali), Monday, 27 March 2006 05:35 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm sure they'll understand.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 27 March 2006 05:39 (fourteen years ago) link

I wasn't at the office when I posted above, but I am now. Bleah.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Monday, 27 March 2006 06:15 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't seem to have any time change issues, I was woken up early yesterday morning by my mother's dog licking my feet.

Ed (dali), Monday, 27 March 2006 06:33 (fourteen years ago) link

You guys are turds. I used reiserfs on a machine for like 5 years. You just use RedHat.

Houdini Gordonii (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 16:00 (fourteen years ago) link

Hah. The Constructive Argument Department strikes again! Just because you have never had any reiserfs problems doesn't mean it's a better choice than ext3.

I've had severe performance problems with concurrent access to large files on reiserfs filesystems - "severe" meaning "causing processes to hang in the D-state for several minutes". These problems vanished when I moved the relevant files over to an ext3 filesystem.

Now, that's not going to be a problem for everyone. Not many people have databases with files over 4G in size, like we do. Nevertheless, Reiserfs clearly isn't up to the job for *that* task, and it doesn't have any advantages over properly-optimised ext3 for general fileserving.

I'm not going to get into an experience fight, but I *do* know what I'm talking about when it comes to Linux sysadmin stuff. Just to let you know.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:06 (fourteen years ago) link

My PB has decided to fall asleep eery 10 seconds or so. I narrowed it down to a faulty heat sensor underneath the trackpad that gives wildly incorrect readings, freaking out the system software and forcing "emergency overtemp" shutdowns. I took it to Tekserve yesterday and it turns out I know one of the guys who works back there - I'd forgotten. He put me to the front of his queue and I'm getting it back today! THANK U APPLECARE. It is fucking retardo that there's not a hack to tell the system to ignore that particular heat sensor, though - and even more that OS X doesn't at least pop up a dialog to tell you what just happened. What if the computer actually was too hot?

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:23 (fourteen years ago) link

I can't believe that problems like that with reiser exist to this day; what kernel was this?

Ext3 is a bag on the side of Ext2 which has been tuned the fuck out, but it is less than optimal design that needs to die.

Houdini Gordonii (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:26 (fourteen years ago) link

Off the top of my head I don't know the exact version. A 2.4 varient, certainly.

Whatever the kernel version, I'm certainly not going to use reiserfs again where there is a risk of something like that happening. Yes, I could move off it - I did do - but that involves significant downtime.

Ext3 is a ... less than optimal design that needs to die.

It's fast, fully-featured, and very very solid.

What features does reiserfs have that ext3 doesn't? None that are worth trading the extra reliability for.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:37 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm not answering me, YOU FUCKING LIAR.

Houdini Gordonii (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:50 (fourteen years ago) link

or you :(

Houdini Gordonii (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:50 (fourteen years ago) link

Performance

Compared to ext2 and ext3 in 2.4, when dealing with files under 4k and with tail packing enabled, ReiserFS is often faster by a factor of 10–15. This is of great benefit in Usenet news spools, HTTP caches, mail delivery systems and other applications where performance with small files is critical.

Houdini Gordonii (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:51 (fourteen years ago) link

ReiserFS in versions of the Linux kernel before 2.4.10 were considered unstable by Namesys and not recommended for production use, especially in conjunction with NFS.
Some file operations (including unlink(2)) are not synchronous on ReiserFS, which can cause some subtle breakage in applications relying heavily on file-based locks.
There is no known way to defragment a ReiserFS filesystem, aside from a full dump and restore.
Early implementations of ReiserFS (prior to that in Linux 2.6.2) were also susceptible to out-of-order write hazards (files being appended to during a crash, for example, would gain a tail of garbage upon next mount). The current journaling implementation in ReiserFS, however, is now on par with that of ext3's "ordered" journaling level.


HAHAHA :(

Houdini Gordonii (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:52 (fourteen years ago) link

ReiserFS stores file metadata ("stat items"), directory entries ("directory items"), inode block lists ("indirect items") and tails of files ("direct items") in a single, combined B+ tree keyed by a universal object id. Disk blocks allocated to nodes of the tree are "formatted internal blocks". Blocks for leaf nodes (in which items are packed end-to-end) are "formatted leaf blocks". All other blocks are "unformatted blocks" containing file contents. Directory items with too many entries or indirect items which are too long to fit into a node spill over into the right leaf neighbour. Block allocation is tracked by free space bitmaps in fixed locations.
By contrast, ext2 and other Berkeley FFS-like filesystems simply use a fixed formula for computing inode locations, hence limiting the number of files they may contain. Most such filesystems also store directories as simple lists of entries, which makes directory lookups and updates linear-time operations and degrades performance on very large directories. The single B+ tree design in ReiserFS was intended to avoid both of these problems.

I'd probably say reiser is ok for a dev workstation for these reasons, but yea, if you ran into those problems, avoid it. I had amazing performance with it being used to torrent tons of stuff while doing lots of huge compile jobs.

Houdini Gordonii (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:54 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm happy with XFS! Its data-loss-on-crash issues are reportedly less common and less destructive than Reiser's.

Paul Eater (eater), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:09 (fourteen years ago) link

Yea, I think I'd probably use XFS now. I remember being scared by how much freaking code comprised it!

Houdini Gordonii (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:12 (fourteen years ago) link

Yes, I know how to find Wikipedia, thanks. Responding to the highlighted bits:

By contrast, ext2 and other Berkeley FFS-like filesystems simply use a fixed formula for computing inode locations, hence limiting the number of files they may contain.

A default ext3 filesystem, off the top of my head, has 1 inode for every 4k of disk space. Hence, if your average file size is under 4k then you'll run out of inodes before data blocks. I don't think there are many situations where that is likely to apply.

Most such filesystems also store directories as simple lists of entries, which makes directory lookups and updates linear-time operations and degrades performance on very large directories.

Ext3 doesn't have to, though - it can store directory contents either as a list or a b-tree.

Filesystem comparisons are hard to do, normally, because it's rare to switch between filesystems on one machine.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:14 (fourteen years ago) link

Aha, you are right about the directory list entries.

Houdini Gordonii (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:23 (fourteen years ago) link

Jon is there any acceptable reason another human being should use a computer in a fashion that is not identical to the way you use a computer?

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:40 (fourteen years ago) link

meanwhile, back in the real world: anyone else having problems with gmail notifier? mine's fucked.

the gmail+growl site suggests some kind of weird shit is going down. it's been knackered for me since 9.30am BST today.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 19:02 (fourteen years ago) link

use one tcpdump

Houdini Gordonii (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 19:13 (fourteen years ago) link

I HATE YOU GUYS

cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 19:34 (fourteen years ago) link

ymail notifier breaks for me like every 2nd day. (no need for gmail notifier since i just pipe gmail straight to Mail.app) still i keep it around, dunno why.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 19:42 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't understand why peoplee think webmail is such a hot idea. It is good when you're traveling but nothing beats organizing your own shit in folders with good drag and drop etc. I keep my folders for work imap synced. Since I use a laptop, it is handy to have offline access to mail.

Also:

http://wizardishungry.com/lol/mail.png

Houdini Gordonii (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 19:47 (fourteen years ago) link

y no smartfolders, jon?

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 19:59 (fourteen years ago) link

I use smartfolders as views for stuff but I like my "Inbox" to only have non mailing list traffic as the unread count in the dock icon corresponds to the number unread in the inbox. Also, with colors I can see where stuff is from in any of my smartfolders ("Today", "This Week", etc). These rules also move each mailing list into its own folder.

Finally a PEEVE with Apple Mail -- Why doesn't each folder remember which columns you had turned on in it rather than the setup now where the columns are GLOBAL.

Houdini Gordonii (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 20:02 (fourteen years ago) link

that's cool jon. i like your style.

by the way, I LOVE TEKSERVE. hardware problem requiring new top casing & trackpad = fixed overnight.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 21:56 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't understand why peoplee think webmail is such a hot idea.

Neither did I, until I started using Gmail. Conversations and fast-searching are such great additions to mail that I'm never going back. Spotlight can search -- slowly -- at home, but what about when I'm not? Mail.app and other clients have pissy little stabs at "threading", but they're all shit compared to conversations. And are useless away from home.

If only Gmail had IMAP, it would be the best of both worlds.

stet (stet), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 22:30 (fourteen years ago) link

all this stuff

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 22:31 (fourteen years ago) link

If gmail had IMAP, I'd probably use it instead of fastmail, as it is I use it as an extra thang and at home use Mail.app (which searches very fast, in my experience). And I don't really like the conversation thing in gmail. I'm a bit old school about email presentation.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 22:39 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't know why I'm here. I don't hate Apple.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 22:42 (fourteen years ago) link

I have my first ever apple...thing, since my v generous birthday

I almost got hit by a car, today! listening to my ipod. luckily it was the guy next to me and I only got hit by him phew

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 22:50 (fourteen years ago) link

i use a gmail address but like i said check it generally via Mail.app. I find it handy to still be able to access it as straight gmail while I'm at work. I figure too its more perm than any provider type acct and more portable and etc.

yahoo makes you pay for pop so i don't do that and i'm generally trying to wean myself off it but it still gets used for a couple older mailinglists.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 03:19 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't know why I'm here. I don't hate Apple.

me neither. but i do get very frustrated with them sometimes.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 07:39 (fourteen years ago) link

I can't believe that problems like that with reiser exist

Paul Reiser?

Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 09:03 (fourteen years ago) link

No, Hans.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 09:59 (fourteen years ago) link

whoever was the dumbshit that said applecare was $60 is a fuck off. It's $250 dollars for an iBook, which is the cheapest laptop and $100 for a new iPod with video .Dip shit. besides, macs are great compters and apple has great support.

WEEBEL, Monday, 3 April 2006 02:01 (fourteen years ago) link

I hate macs. So there.

Gary Ganu, Thursday, 6 April 2006 19:16 (fourteen years ago) link

I hate macintosh... They always @#*)(*@$& CRASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Today as I work at the library, I have experienced several crashes and had to restart twice. The main directorys cannot be found and everything is having unexpected errrrrrrrrrrrrors!!!!!! I used to have a mac at home which does this exactly same f@#(@&#( thing!. MACs suck shit. PCs are the best thing ever as they beat Macintrash by 110000000000000000000000000:1

Rommel, Tuesday, 11 April 2006 01:34 (fourteen years ago) link

OMFG THOSE OF WHO USE MACS WILLINGLY ARE ASSHOLES. I AM FORCED TO SE MACS AT SCHOOL AND EVERT 15 MINUTES THE GODDAMN THING CRASHES, OR OVERHEATS OR FREEZES OR ENCOUNTERS TERMINAL SYSTEM FAILURE, OMFG GROW A GODDAMN BRAIN ASSHOLES I OPE AL MACS BLOW THE FUCK UPA ND NEVER WORK AGAIN

Wilkie, Tuesday, 11 April 2006 01:35 (fourteen years ago) link

MACs really suck... they always crash and are the hardets thing to use in history.

Truman Heeler, Tuesday, 11 April 2006 01:36 (fourteen years ago) link

macs always blow up, killing their operators. so hard to live with max.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 02:49 (fourteen years ago) link

Well, I'm posting on a mac right now and it's running just fine. I think macs are beautifully constructed pieces of machinery that....

**okay - it's not looking - my mac has tied me up and is forcing me to do it's evil bidding - send help right away. I... oh no... no, I wasn't doing anyth... no please... NNNNOOOOOOOO

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 02:56 (fourteen years ago) link

THE EVIL GENIUS BAR GUY SENT MY COMPUTER IN. HE SAID IT WAS JUST TO REPLACE THE DC INBOARD AND THAT IT WOULDN'T EFFECT MY FILES. MY COMPUTER CAME BACK. IT HAS A NEW HARD DRIVE. I REALLY REALLY REALLY HATE APPLE.

(Yes, I'm an idiot for not backing up my files but I bought the external hard drive and couldn't get the computer running long enough to do so.)

Apple Tech is going to call me back. I hope they can make some amends.

Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 17:26 (fourteen years ago) link

oh no!!!

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 17:39 (fourteen years ago) link

OH WOW! I had to send my computer in but they actually called me before doing so

JW (ex machina), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 17:43 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah they basically do this with everyone, just to let you know who's boss. I'm amazed they actually called you JW. They must know you're an obnoxious fanboy evangelist.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 17:45 (fourteen years ago) link

I did mine through the Apple Tech's at my old uni, who don't work for Apple or the uni.

JW (ex machina), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 17:46 (fourteen years ago) link

Oh, you mean non-Geniuses.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 17:56 (fourteen years ago) link

Fuck Apple Customer Support

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 17:57 (fourteen years ago) link

hugz Mary, I know I joked on the DC thread but that really does suck. If they can't locate your missing parts you should go ahead and request they give you a brand new computer since this one is just going to break again anyway!! I mean fuck.

Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 18:40 (fourteen years ago) link

I know, this one went from brand new computer to need new logic board in the space of 2 years, beating my previous Mac's logic board, which wanted a replacement after 4 years. What do I do to these poor logic boards?

I still have Apple care for another year so hopefully the new drive and board will last that long.

My moms told me I should take it to this little Mac stand on Route 1 and I checked they did accept Apple care and they are certified technicians and all that, but for some reason I thought it would be easier to take it in to the store. Next outage I'm gonna see what the mom and pop can do.

Thanks everyone for the advice and support. It's not as traumatic this time around, as it was the last time my computer broke. (It also helps that my mom has an identical computer in the basement for moments like this.)

The only thing I really got screwed on was some pictures I only had on the computer.

I think from now on I'm going back to analog.

Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 19:22 (fourteen years ago) link

you're going back to analog! I smashed my laptop into submission with my head and still regret that I cannot also do my job using only pen & paper! As far as I'm concerned I'll take a blackberry and a Nintendo DS and that's all I want. No more of this hullaballoo over infotech for me.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 19:24 (fourteen years ago) link

All praise Ned Lud.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 19:27 (fourteen years ago) link

Ed, how in the hell have you kept your black g3 working? Have you replaced every single part inside of it? I'm now two hard drives removed from that computer.

Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 19:56 (fourteen years ago) link

My Black G3 died after 5 years of use. They seem to have been the best built PowerBooks ever. Suzy has just inherited a first generation G3 powerbook (SCSI, no USB or Firewire) which still seems to be going strong, must be 7 years old by now, probably more.

My theory with laptops is that you can't expect the hard drives to last more than two years and should expect them to go at any moment. A hard disk is a fundamentally stupid thing to put in something that moves around all the time. Optical drives will go quickly as well and in my opinion should be left out of portables. DC boards appear to be another flakey item (that's what finally went on my G3), I don't know what kills them.

I guess as much RAM as possible can help to extend hard disk life. Making sure your laptop always has good airflow must do something to help keep everything going.

I can't wait for solid state disks to be cheap enough and reliable enough to be regular fixtures in laptops.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 20:06 (fourteen years ago) link

I have my laptop on my desk now intead of my bed. And how much RAM do you recommend, Ed? I had 512, but they stole 256.

Do you have any theories about logic boards?

My mom has the first model of the white powerbook--and it's still fine after three years, but she uses it a lot less than I do.

Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 20:12 (fourteen years ago) link

As much RAM as you can get in there, the maximum, I think 768MB in your case.

I think what kills logic boards is the fact that as the laptop gets hanles, especially if you pick it up by one corner, it places a lot of stress on the board and on the solder that holds components to it. Eventually something cracks or becomes disconnected. I gues to reduce this, always pick up the laptop by both sides and always use on a firm surface, says the person using his work laptop balanced on his knee, lifted there by once corner.

I guess you shouldn't expect a laptop to last like a desktop. Plan on replacing them every couple of years or so.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 20:23 (fourteen years ago) link

my 1997-vintage powerbook 5300 is still going strong [1] - and it once had a ceiling fall in on it. and this was meant to be the duddest PB ever made!

[1] unless stet, who is currently looking after it, has broken it. or one of our mutual friends has been sick on it. mate?

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 20:24 (fourteen years ago) link

my 98 G3 is still fine on os9

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 20:25 (fourteen years ago) link

Ed, that is good news for people with metal powerbooks and 12" laptops :D

JW (ex machina), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 20:26 (fourteen years ago) link

no wait, my G3 was replaced sometime 99ish, wasn't it? Ed OTM about treating it right. i put it on a table and move it only when necessary.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 20:28 (fourteen years ago) link

Ed is totally correct about handling of these things - as laptops keep getting smaller, all the components and connectors inevitably get a little flimsier. My Tekserve repair buddy says he's always astonished at how people handle their powerbooks, like it's a big textbook or something that can be set down heavily, or flung in a bag into the couch. He's like "these are really complicated, precision pieces of equipment"

xpost

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 20:29 (fourteen years ago) link

I think maybe also I shouldn't download songs from Soulseek anymore? From now on, I'm buying CDs from Amazon or ebay--no way I am giving any money to the iTunes fund.

I wish I had a Tekserve repair buddy. *sigh* I picture sort of Marlon Brando in On the Waterfront type?

But on TV, they are always using their laptops on their beds! Oh maybe they stopped circa Buffy.

Maybe I should get a Mini next? I'm already got the Mini external drive.

But why is it portable if you are only supposed to move it around gingerly?!

Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 20:32 (fourteen years ago) link

like cars, why do they make you pay for all this safety equipment if you're not supposed to hit things

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 20:36 (fourteen years ago) link

www.spireusa.com

buy bag from this web site. always use padded sleeve. do not fling. attempt to find some measure of happiness in this hypersexualized environment that shows every sign of worsening.

yeah, the bed thing is a big no-no, even APPLE says so in their literature! must be a hard surface.

i still am sort of in shock that they trashed your entire hard drive, that's just incredible.

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 20:37 (fourteen years ago) link

Are there any reasonable laptop sleeves available at the apple store? I am running to the SoHo one to get a new mouse and keyboard.

JW (ex machina), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 20:39 (fourteen years ago) link

(okay, those kittens aren't portable. not at that fucking size, anyway.)

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 20:45 (fourteen years ago) link

http://www.matias.ca/laptoparmor/index2.php

These are meant to be good cases.

Jon, there are no good sleves at the apple store. I only ever saw one good sleeve, with stiff impact resistant sides and I only saw it once and never again.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 20:47 (fourteen years ago) link

get one from Spire jon, they sell them individually. they're designed to fit each size of powerbook exactly, they're made of ballistic nylon, they have water-resistant lining, and a little strap on top so you can carry it by itself if you want, but mainly you'd be *gently* putting it in your bag or backpack or whatever i guess. i swear i don't work for them, i just think they're real real good at makin this stuff.

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 20:47 (fourteen years ago) link

There was this piece of paper the genius filled out for me that was like my receipt (I thought) for the computer that said data transfer? and he checked the no box, and then I signed it. But he never presented a situation to me thusly: there is a chance you will lose all your data, in that case you could pay 150 for data recovery would you like to do so? Apple Care says they are not responsible to talk to the Genius and the Genius says they are not responsible for what happens to a computer after it leaves their store.

Alison Hannigan's computer never died.

Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 21:21 (fourteen years ago) link

The lesson to be learned is that everyone needs backups all the time.

JW (ex machina), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 21:23 (fourteen years ago) link

Is it bad to always let my computer fall asleep and then either awaken it by touching a key or instead closing the lid and leaving it that way for the night? Should I be more formally turning on an off computer? Teach me how to care for and protect this delicate creature.

Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 21:57 (fourteen years ago) link

putting it to sleep and waking it are preferred over turning it on and off. but closing the lid does not always put it to sleep, necessarily maybe?

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 21:58 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah don't fuck with the lid thing on these iBooks. Just let it fall asleep or tell it to, opening and shutting it is iffy at times (when it comes to waking back up)

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 23:18 (fourteen years ago) link

Mary, you might want to look into getting one of these if you want to use your laptop in bed.

naus (Robert T), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 23:29 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah that annoys the fuck out of me, it used to be really smooth, but now when you open the lid it's like "i'm back! WAIT! hold on! must collect mys-- I'M BACK! wait. OK OK I'M BACK NOW!"

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 23:30 (fourteen years ago) link

i still am sort of in shock that they trashed your entire hard drive, that's just incredible.

The genius bar guy should have mentioned that up front. Every computer I've taken to the genius bar has come back restored to its "out of the box" state - wiped hard drive, etc.

Get a inexpensive HD from Best Buy and just back things up.

LOL Thomas (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 20 April 2006 00:26 (fourteen years ago) link

I have this sleeve from Tom Bihn which I use in a plain-looking backpack that has no "steal me, I'm a laptop!" look to it. First laptop bag/sleeve that I've been 100% happy with.

LOL Thomas (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 20 April 2006 00:34 (fourteen years ago) link

"My Monolith arrived today. That is truly amazing service! You will have made one leprosy statistician's life just a little bit more secure."

phil d. (Phil D.), Thursday, 20 April 2006 00:47 (fourteen years ago) link

I went to the SoHo apple store and had a bad time but I did get a mouse and keyboard.

JW (ex machina), Thursday, 20 April 2006 01:38 (fourteen years ago) link

But why is it portable if you are only supposed to move it around gingerly?!
A (now retired) Top Bloke at my work brought in his shiny new iBook once, and was showing it off. Someone turned it a little bit so they could see it better, and he wents nuts. "This has a *hard disk* inside it! It's spinning! You can't move this until it's sleeping or shut down. Grrrr."

GF: A bit of sick on the power transformer, that's all. You'll wipe that off easy, with a cloth.

stet (stet), Thursday, 20 April 2006 01:46 (fourteen years ago) link

I went to the SoHo apple store and had a bad time but I did get a mouse and keyboard.

Aww, Jon, did they mock you? Did they not let you pose as a genius and hit on coked up NU students?

Ed (dali), Thursday, 20 April 2006 04:52 (fourteen years ago) link

People talking about macs gives me the heebie jeebies for some reason. Like a tentacle poking out of the ear of the pod person sitting next to you on the bus.

Dan I. (Dan I.), Thursday, 20 April 2006 07:27 (fourteen years ago) link

Aww, Jon, did they mock you? Did they not let you pose as a genius and hit on coked up NU students?

I was looking at the bluetooth keyboard and some employee came up to me and he very pointedly looked about 8 inches to the left of my eyes while we were talking. Also, not very helpful about battery life in BT devices. I ended up getting the wired keyboard and a mighty mouse as I love the mighty mouse so.

I got hit on my a girl in the checkout line who liked my bag, which I had just bought a new cell phone holder for at the bike shop on 6th Ave and Canal though. She was cute.

http://www.chromebags.com/metropolis_olive.jpg

JW POSING FOR CONSUMER PRODUCTS NOW AND THEN (ex machina), Thursday, 20 April 2006 13:06 (fourteen years ago) link

Is that bike bag any good? It looks like poncey donkey toss to me but my pedro's one is falling apart after only a year and I look like a donkey anyway.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 20 April 2006 13:50 (fourteen years ago) link

ebags.com

never buy luggage of any sort without a moneyback/replacement guarantee

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Thursday, 20 April 2006 13:52 (fourteen years ago) link

I like one of those chrome backpacks but they want $100 shipping

RJG (RJG), Thursday, 20 April 2006 13:55 (fourteen years ago) link

The pedro's thing was dirt cheap and made even cheaper by the fact that colette's dad sold it to me at cost.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 20 April 2006 13:55 (fourteen years ago) link

chromebags rule

JW (ex machina), Thursday, 20 April 2006 13:58 (fourteen years ago) link

Every computer I've taken to the genius bar has come back restored to its "out of the box" state - wiped hard drive, etc.

The funny thing about this is that I seem to be the only person who actually let "geniuses" take my computer who got it back with files fully intact, non-wiped. Which pissed me off cos I was at that fucking Apple store for like 5 hours doing the back up on spot and I actually didn't care that much about "losing" data that was mostly easily re-gettable anyway (I would've only lost a handful of photos from my digicam that I didn't have on hard disc from my old computer, and term papers from previous semesters that I still had hard copies of anyway). The genius basically refused to send my computer into the shop without me purchasing a $200 hard drive and backing up all my "important" data, myself, in front of everyone in the damn store. Son of a bitch.

Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Thursday, 20 April 2006 16:20 (fourteen years ago) link

Annoying: no front row for older macs.

JW (ex machina), Thursday, 20 April 2006 16:35 (fourteen years ago) link

WORST SHARE/FREEWARE APP EVER: http://www.andrewescobar.com/mailstamps

JW (ex machina), Thursday, 20 April 2006 16:46 (fourteen years ago) link

Yeah, the weird thing is that while he was 'helping' me, he was mainly spending his time assisting this other woman with her in-store back-up. I guess I should have been more pro-active, but I was basically like, cool, no problem, they will just do a quick fix and everything will be okay. He even had me buy a an external hard drive which he showed me and advised me on and when I said I didn't think I could get my computer to run long enough to back up he never offered the special in-store back up.

There is something liberating about a clean drive though. Like the first stage of a break-up when you feel free before you get lonely and wonder what did I do?

Mary (Mary), Thursday, 20 April 2006 18:03 (fourteen years ago) link

Looks like the ZFS file system might be ported to OS X

Doesn't mean anything right now (except perhaps to me, TOMBOT, JW, and Ed), but still interesting.

LOL Thomas (Chris Barrus), Monday, 1 May 2006 23:03 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't now that much about file systems, but it sounds cool. Z is much cooler letter than H anyway.

Ed (dali), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 05:32 (fourteen years ago) link

there is a reason even huge IT companies with clever engineers and systems architects (google comes to mind) keep big purple racks in the back, and tech like ZFS is basically it. Sun is the soil you grow your rel dbs in if you need to scale.

this is interesting because it means (to me) that apple has finally got to the point where they feel confident enough that we (the users) aren't going to notice the cpu load of handling everything as part of a rel db (well obviously since we all play along with iTunes already).

I'm slightly more interested in rumors about the inclusion of a Torrent client as part and parcel of 10.5.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 13:47 (fourteen years ago) link

i thought google used all cheap linux boxes? Or is that just for the search farm?

stet (stet), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 13:54 (fourteen years ago) link

I seriously doubt every application @ google is running on their gfs/bigtable in-house solutions - I'm just saying sun has a track record of building excellent systems for supporting relational dbs and everybody uses them for SOMETHING.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 14:15 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm slightly more interested in rumors about the inclusion of a Torrent client as part and parcel of 10.5.

I don't consider it to be that big of a deal... Your average 10.x.x point update runs over 50MB and Apple has to pay for that bandwidth just like everyone else. Being able to distribute that out in exchange for some iTunes credit makes a lot of sense.

I believe it's unlikely that the "torrent" components will be extensible out to developers. Back during the Rhapsody developer meetings there was a lot of talk about being able to hook into OS X's software update engine and use it as a general application updater but then Apple decided not to.

LOL Thomas (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 21:21 (fourteen years ago) link

Eh, the torrent think was linked on macosrumors which is like the weekly world news of mac rumor bs. I wouldn't be surprised if they integrated it into *iTunes* (so it'll work with PeeCees, etc) for adding movies to the store.

JW (ex machina), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 21:27 (fourteen years ago) link

http://uadmin.blogspot.com/2006/05/why-zfs-for-home.html

JW (ex machina), Thursday, 4 May 2006 16:44 (fourteen years ago) link

MOTHERFUCKING $300 MOTHERBOARD

FUCK

Holy makkara, Toivo! (OutDatWay), Thursday, 4 May 2006 16:59 (fourteen years ago) link

Zfs looked like voodoo magic until i read the explanation of snapshots in the comments.

stet (stet), Thursday, 4 May 2006 17:36 (fourteen years ago) link

two weeks pass...
Ok, so I have a BRAND NEW 60GIG IPOD.

I'm syncing it and I notice that 'mdimport' is taking up a lot of cpu time. I go and check and SPOTLIGHT INDEXING IS ENABLED ON MY IPOD WTF?!!??!

So to turn it off:

sudo mdutil -i off /Volumes/iPodNameHere

seems faster

JW (ex machina), Friday, 19 May 2006 01:57 (fourteen years ago) link

spotlight is problematic. you may want to try quicksilver. besides expose, it is the most productivity-enhancing application i have ever used. seriously.

lf (lfam), Friday, 19 May 2006 03:07 (fourteen years ago) link

I've been using it for quite a while. I usually only have it index applications because otherwise it is too laggy.

Spotlight isn't so hot, but it isn't *BAD* persay

JW (ex machina), Friday, 19 May 2006 03:09 (fourteen years ago) link

Not to totally divert from all the tech geek talk, but can anyone point me to the most useful forums/websites for new Mac users to get up to speed on using OSX, ask questions, etc.? Thanks!

pleased to mitya (mitya), Friday, 19 May 2006 13:30 (fourteen years ago) link

ysi?

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 19 May 2006 13:43 (fourteen years ago) link

Mac OS X Hints has loads of useful hints. Friendly forums as well.

Ed (dali), Friday, 19 May 2006 13:47 (fourteen years ago) link

Spotlight is definitely bad when it comes to floppies. I was making some to fix the aged relative's aged LCII last month, and the bloody thing takes up 200k *of an empty disk* with its nonsense.

When you turn Spotlight off for the disk, it makes a file to tell it not to index that. And that file takes up just enough space that you can't image an system install disk to it. Grrrr.

stet (stet), Friday, 19 May 2006 14:30 (fourteen years ago) link

Shouldn't you IMAGE the disk using disk utility when the disk is unmounted

JW (ex machina), Friday, 19 May 2006 15:28 (fourteen years ago) link

Yes, you definitely should. Except Disk Utility goes nuts with System 7 disk images. Actually, I think that's been fixed now, but it certainly did then.

Still is a pisser that it takes up space on a tiny disk, just trying to tell it not to take up space.

stet (stet), Friday, 19 May 2006 15:36 (fourteen years ago) link

I wonder how long I can go without touching a floppy. I think it may have been since summer 2004.

JW (ex machina), Friday, 19 May 2006 15:58 (fourteen years ago) link

and the bloody thing takes up 200k *of an empty disk* with its nonsense.

for fuck's sake. i think i've used spotlight about three times. hmph.

stet: don't you have SOMEONE ELSE'S perfectly good PB5300 running 8.5 to make nice disk images?

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Friday, 19 May 2006 22:03 (fourteen years ago) link

Yes, EXCEPT SOMEONE ELSE lost the Ethernet adaptor ... so there's no way to get the images on to it.

stet (stet), Friday, 19 May 2006 22:08 (fourteen years ago) link

dude! seriously. YOU HAVE IT. i'm sure of this. i know this because i've just found the little red piece of cable that used to live with it at all times. BUT NO ADAPTOR. i'm sure i gave it you at work about two years ago.

tits. either way, we're fooked, aren't we?

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Friday, 19 May 2006 22:15 (fourteen years ago) link

yeh. your silence says everything ;)

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Friday, 19 May 2006 22:42 (fourteen years ago) link

Sorry, I was busy looking for it. I thought it might be with my fairy dust, unicorn hair, liquid light and OTHER SHIT I DON'T HAVE.

stet (stet), Friday, 19 May 2006 22:53 (fourteen years ago) link

two weeks pass...
i dropped my powerbook while i was in the hospital and now one of the corners has a big ding in it. in fact, the ding is so big that there's a tiny gap between the top housing and the sidewall.

obviously, this bugs me.

even though titanium is soft enough to bend that much when i drop it, i'm having no luck bending it back into place (maybe i'm not using the right tool??)

obv this isn't covered by applecare, since they don't cover "accident". any way i can trick them into fixing it??

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Saturday, 3 June 2006 19:20 (fourteen years ago) link

I bought a MacBook Pro Saturday afternoon, now they're starting a $179/free Nano promotion on Monday.

Where should I start bugging someone to gimme my rebate slip? Store manager, or higher up?

milo z (mlp), Monday, 5 June 2006 02:33 (fourteen years ago) link

Knee-cap all the floor reps until you get to the final boss and then use the double fireball laser cannons on him, wiggle erratically and keep to the edges.

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 5 June 2006 04:15 (fourteen years ago) link

People only care because it is Apple!

So as it stands, I’m out $400 (which as a poor college student, I’d like back)

If you can't afford to be out $400 (+ the price of whatever laptop you'll replace that one with) you are not budgetting proper.

Courtney Gidts (ex machina), Monday, 5 June 2006 20:07 (fourteen years ago) link

Why?

Turns out all I have to do is bring my receipt to the Apple Store, they'll do a 1:1 exchange and add whatever iPod I want to the receipt so I can get a rebate.

milo z (mlp), Monday, 5 June 2006 20:11 (fourteen years ago) link

My MBP has suddenly started with the high-pitched CPU whine after 11 days (low/no-load = whine, open PhotoBooth or another high-CPU usage program, it goes away). Genius bar people are useless. Maybe sjobs@apple.com will help.

milo z (mlp), Thursday, 15 June 2006 20:50 (fourteen years ago) link

We need this as a warning here!

WARNING: Genius bar people are useless!!!!!

lord pooperton (ex machina), Thursday, 15 June 2006 21:06 (fourteen years ago) link

There we go.

lord pooperton (ex machina), Thursday, 15 June 2006 21:06 (fourteen years ago) link

Could you add one about first-gen Apple hardware being pieces of shit? Thanks.

milo z (mlp), Thursday, 15 June 2006 21:16 (fourteen years ago) link

HAHAHAHAH jon, that's superb.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Thursday, 15 June 2006 21:32 (fourteen years ago) link

we should do this on hair dye threads

lord pooperton (ex machina), Thursday, 15 June 2006 21:42 (fourteen years ago) link

Contacting sjobs@apple.com totally works.

milo z (mlp), Friday, 16 June 2006 15:22 (fourteen years ago) link

what happened?

lord pooperton (ex machina), Friday, 16 June 2006 15:23 (fourteen years ago) link

I got a call from the Executive Relations dept. asking about the details (I sent a long e-mail describing everything that happened), they contacted the store I originally bought it from, and now I can go in this weekend, talk to the MOD and they'll exchange it without the restocking fee that the other store wanted to charge me.

milo z (mlp), Friday, 16 June 2006 15:36 (fourteen years ago) link

I think I love Apple again. Unless this MBP doesn't work either.

milo z (mlp), Friday, 16 June 2006 15:37 (fourteen years ago) link

do you have a 17 or 15?

lord pooperton (ex machina), Friday, 16 June 2006 15:37 (fourteen years ago) link

Can you post your email? With embarassing/personal shit removed?

lord pooperton (ex machina), Friday, 16 June 2006 15:43 (fourteen years ago) link

15", lemme see if I can find it.

milo z (mlp), Friday, 16 June 2006 17:12 (fourteen years ago) link

we installed windows on our laptop. it's the first time i use it. HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU HATE APPLE IF THERE'S WINDOWS? just try windows for five minutes and feel the lurve for apple return.

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Friday, 16 June 2006 18:17 (fourteen years ago) link

the processor is whining because it wants to be put out of its misery

lf (lfam), Saturday, 17 June 2006 05:02 (fourteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...
New Mac v PC ads

Alba (Alba), Saturday, 8 July 2006 09:06 (fourteen years ago) link

did they actually broadcast them?

RJG (RJG), Saturday, 8 July 2006 09:15 (fourteen years ago) link

these can't be real (although i said that about the original ads).

jed_ (jed), Saturday, 8 July 2006 10:02 (fourteen years ago) link

just saw the other ones

these ones are not real

RJG (RJG), Saturday, 8 July 2006 10:13 (fourteen years ago) link

real ones aren't much better though, haha

RJG (RJG), Saturday, 8 July 2006 10:17 (fourteen years ago) link

ok, i have a problem with my macbook pro :-( suddenly last night i seemed to lose my internet connection, and i'm having a lot of trouble getting it back. i'm connecting wirelessly to a netgear DG834G router, and have been doing so for months. the connection shows 5 bars, but after being connected for 5 mins or so i seem to lose the ability to browse the web etc, although logging in to the router on other machines shows that my laptop's still connected. any ideas?

i've googled and found tons of problems with macbook pro airport stuff, but they all seem to happen straight out of the box, and don't seem to involve the wireless connection appearing to stay valid. hopefully this is just something really stupid...

toby (tsg20), Thursday, 13 July 2006 06:54 (fourteen years ago) link

cant you go to the login page?

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Thursday, 13 July 2006 06:58 (fourteen years ago) link

Have you specified DNS servers explicitly in the network setting page? The OS X networking stack seems to have this problem where it looses knowledge of cached DNS servers.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 13 July 2006 07:02 (fourteen years ago) link

does login page = the router's admin page? if so, then no.

DNS servers - no, will do so. weirdly i noticed that my fixed IP address has changed, which seems really weird.

related, hopefully easier q: my first idea for a workaround was to connect via an ethernet cable. on xp, this would just work - you plug in and go. nothing happened on my mac, though! what do i need to do to use ethernet with the router?

toby (tsg20), Thursday, 13 July 2006 07:20 (fourteen years ago) link

Is your Mac set to acquire an address via DHCP?

Try doing this for the ethernet interface when connecting with the cable and see what address the Mac picks up and if you can get to the management page.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 13 July 2006 07:26 (fourteen years ago) link

ha, now it seems like i can get a connection within a foot or two of the router, but not across the other side of the room (still shows up as being connected, but doesn't work). bizarre.

toby (tsg20), Thursday, 13 July 2006 07:33 (fourteen years ago) link

Hmm, you could try forcing the router onto a different wireless channel, there maybe something causing interference. Is there another router with the same SSID in your block? You could try changing the SSID as well.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 13 July 2006 07:42 (fourteen years ago) link

just looked again, and it had lost my static ip address again; so i put that back, and nothing happened, so put in the DNS servers as ed suggested, and it's been working for 5 mins. only annoyance is that if i try to go to the router admin page it tells me that there's another admin logged in (presumably me on the other ip address a few mins ago, as the other machine is off).

toby (tsg20), Thursday, 13 July 2006 09:17 (fourteen years ago) link

reboot the router

Ed (dali), Thursday, 13 July 2006 09:25 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah, i feel a bit superstitious about doing that! i'll do it once i've done everything essential...

toby (tsg20), Thursday, 13 July 2006 09:57 (fourteen years ago) link

s there another router with the same SSID in your block?

how would i find this out? i'm pretty sure it must be something like that, as it seems like i'm fine except when i put the computer in one corner of the lounge (which is unfortunqtely where i usuqlly work!).

toby (tsg20), Thursday, 13 July 2006 10:33 (fourteen years ago) link

When you set up your router did you change the name of the network (the SSID) to something unique?

Ed (dali), Thursday, 13 July 2006 10:34 (fourteen years ago) link

two weeks pass...
20" core duo iMac purchased a month ago now incapable of staying up long enough to ask me what language I prefer the system reinstaller dvd to talk to me in

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Monday, 31 July 2006 16:23 (fourteen years ago) link

ouch

I'm relived that my battery isn't one of the recalled ones

Ed (dali), Monday, 31 July 2006 16:26 (fourteen years ago) link

did not feel that another lemon hardware issue was worth reviving the thread but I'm on hold for applecare and they just made me listen to "Ready Steady Go." I don't know what the hell the rest of this shit is but I think there was some barenaked ladies at the beginning of this ordeal and really honestly this is bar none the absolute worst hold music I've ever, ever had to deal with in my entire life of having my time wasted by waiting on understaffed CCs.


BTW the only reason I am ON HOLD is because the brilliant "Concierge" system completely fills up within hours of store opening at both Pentagon City and Clarendon. I have a hint for you fuckers, don't sell broken-ass CPUs if you can't hire enough techs to fix them. FFS.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Monday, 31 July 2006 16:31 (fourteen years ago) link

I fully intend to be incredibly rude to any Genius Bar staff I'm forced to talk to that don't just take the box away and give me a new one with store credit for the price difference between wired and bluetooth peripherals.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Monday, 31 July 2006 16:34 (fourteen years ago) link

10.4.7. is a stinker.

jed_ (jed), Monday, 31 July 2006 16:35 (fourteen years ago) link

every upgrade with an odd third digit has been a complete horror, AFACT.

I'm not looking forward to hearing about this "restocking fee"

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Monday, 31 July 2006 17:30 (fourteen years ago) link

they are totally getting you back for slagging on them; BLACKLISTED

Machibuse '80 (ex machina), Monday, 31 July 2006 17:32 (fourteen years ago) link

are they also totally getting me back for giving them thousands and thousands of dollars over the years? was waiting for you to show up and tell me something like how if I don't like listening to oakenfold over the phone I should just stay away from nextstep-based OSes

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Monday, 31 July 2006 17:51 (fourteen years ago) link

Serious question: do all your hardware problems happen with fairly recently purchased stuff? Bathtub curve?

Machibuse '80 (ex machina), Monday, 31 July 2006 17:53 (fourteen years ago) link

CAPTAIN SAVE AN-OS

S-L-U-G (plsmith), Monday, 31 July 2006 17:54 (fourteen years ago) link

Fuck the restocking fee bullshit. If they try to pull that on you, go home and e-mail the address I posted above. Someone from Executive Relations will get back to you in the next day and the Genius Bar/retail people can stick it.

milo z (mlp), Monday, 31 July 2006 17:57 (fourteen years ago) link

I've basically figured out that every single problem I have personally witnessed with OSX has involved:

1) yes, that vital odd-third-digit as mentioned above
2) ITUNES

The computer was wanky to begin with (a brand new out-of-the-box no programs added computer shouldn't be refusing to wake up from sleep?) but as soon as we opened ITUNES for the first time IT STARTED EATING ITSELF ALIVE WTF? I just laugh at it at this point, especially when it wouldn't even accept the system disks or open in safe mode anymore :D

Allyzay knows where the interfacing goes. (allyzay), Monday, 31 July 2006 18:24 (fourteen years ago) link

Oh, guys I totally agree with you about iPhoto being a slow turd now!

Machibuse '80 (ex machina), Monday, 31 July 2006 18:25 (fourteen years ago) link

Shit, I still have the version that tells me I should upgrade to the newest iLife. It's faster than that one, right?

mike h. (mike h.), Monday, 31 July 2006 18:29 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah flickr + ringo punch iPhoto in its big stupid nuts

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Monday, 31 July 2006 18:29 (fourteen years ago) link

I should have just taken the box in for a replacement as soon as Terminal proved unable to launch

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Monday, 31 July 2006 18:31 (fourteen years ago) link

was waiting for you to show up and tell me something like how if I don't like listening to oakenfold over the phone I should just stay away from nextstep-based OSes

also: ho sanp!!!!

serious answer: Yes, I have definitely noticed an amazing increase in hardware failure with recent-er Apple products (by recent-er I mean last 3-4 years seeing rapid upswing in lemons and really manky systems incompatibility--we have a friend who went thru 3 of the latest iMacs before getting one that actually worked*)

xposts haha I told you about iPhoto!!

*ps if our replacement one breaks, Tom, you are NOT AUTHORIZED to get another one and instead we will harrass them for refunds and get something else because that is just not worth my tax dollars.

Allyzay knows where the interfacing goes. (allyzay), Monday, 31 July 2006 18:31 (fourteen years ago) link

Oh yeah, hahaha that was pretty funny when it refused to open Terminal anymore, the look on your face was pretty priceless :D

Allyzay knows where the interfacing goes. (allyzay), Monday, 31 July 2006 18:32 (fourteen years ago) link

pix plz

Machibuse '80 (ex machina), Monday, 31 July 2006 18:37 (fourteen years ago) link

I'd never buy another Apple product if not for OS X. I hate the branding, I hate Steve Jobs, I hate the customer service, I hate the Apple tax, I hate the idea that PLAIN GLOSSY WHITE is some kind of design masterstroke, I hate the fact that I've yet to get a computer from them that didn't fuck up in some way - the company as a whole and its consumer strategy gives me the creeps.

If Windows didn't get in my way/make everything more difficult, I'd abandon Apple in a heartbeat.


Also, Aperture 1.1 is a giant, overpriced piece of shit. A complete waste of $149 for me - Lightroom is a little slower, but it's currently free and actually gets my white balance right every time.

milo z (mlp), Monday, 31 July 2006 18:43 (fourteen years ago) link

If Windows didn't get in my way/make everything more difficult, I'd abandon Apple in a heartbeat.

This is pretty much the most OTM thing on this, my favorite thread ever.

Allyzay knows where the interfacing goes. (allyzay), Monday, 31 July 2006 18:44 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm convinced the problem is the laptop design/production? I've had Mac desktops forever and never had any physical problems. I had a beige G3 running for years past it's use, and I have one of the first single processor G5s and it's fine. Then I come here and hear nothing about complaints about portables.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Monday, 31 July 2006 18:45 (fourteen years ago) link

The laptops are the worst - let's not worry about heat and usability, so long as we can advertise that we're ONE INCH THICK, because all those two-inch thick laptops are so difficult to use.

milo z (mlp), Monday, 31 July 2006 18:46 (fourteen years ago) link

But I also had a Quicksilver G4 with a bad hard-drive (not really Apple's fault, but they tried to charge me $50 to talk to someone on the phone getting it replaced, asshats), my G5 tower had problems with sleeping and randomly turning itself off, and there were a lot of problems with the first iMac G5s.

milo z (mlp), Monday, 31 July 2006 18:47 (fourteen years ago) link

Yeah, the computer in question that refuses to even accept sys disks at this point is an iMac, not a laptop. My sometimes-refuses-to-wake-up also-it-ate-my-iPod laptop is preferable in performance.

Allyzay knows where the interfacing goes. (allyzay), Monday, 31 July 2006 18:49 (fourteen years ago) link

haha the butler

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 31 July 2006 19:09 (fourteen years ago) link

I love the dual-core Dell laptop my job gave me.

Jesus Dan (Dan Perry), Monday, 31 July 2006 19:43 (fourteen years ago) link

I should have just taken the box in for a replacement as soon as Terminal proved unable to launch
-- TOMBOT (tombo...), Today.

how can terminal fail when the os is on? that's bizarre

and tell me what is wrong with 10.4.7 because i just upgraded

a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Monday, 31 July 2006 19:44 (fourteen years ago) link

aye, i've had no trouble with 10.4.7 ... yet ... my bouncy dashboard ball needed an upgrade, but it's been plain sailing since then. 12 days' uptime, and i think that's since i upgraded.

[touches wood] ... i've been very lucky with my apple hardware, i guess. i've had, what ... one powerbook 5300, one iMac DVSE, this here 12" G4 PowerBook, a first-gen iPod, a second-gen iPod and an iPod shuffle. the only one that isn't still working is the first iPod, and that's my fault for dropping it. yes: even the 5300 still works, 10 years since i bought it. and it's had a fucking ceiling collapse on it.

i'm tempting fate here, i know. perhaps i'm just stealing everyone else's apple karma. i dunno.

what i will say is that my PB5300 was one of the last they ever made (srsly: the fucker got phased out about a week after i took delivery). i've never been an early adopter [1] and p'raps that's the key.

or perhaps i'm just a jammy get.

[1] except with the iPod. and the shuffle. the latter, i have to admit, can display slightly shonkular behaviour at times, especially for something so bloody simple.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Monday, 31 July 2006 22:32 (fourteen years ago) link

there can't - can there? - be a difference in build quality between european and US machines? i mean, surely the chips are exactly the same? my PB5300, i think, was made in ireland and i was assured that "the irish ones don't blow up". anyway, hmm. just a thought.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Monday, 31 July 2006 22:35 (fourteen years ago) link

i was assured that "the irish ones don't blow up"

Are you sure this wasn't a tired gag playing on Ireland's troubled history?

Alba (Alba), Monday, 31 July 2006 22:40 (fourteen years ago) link

aye, i've had no trouble with 10.4.7 ... yet

Zero trouble here too...

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Monday, 31 July 2006 23:27 (fourteen years ago) link

No trouble with any of the 10.4s on Intel or the hardwrae, a US bought MBP, first of the non BTO 2.16Ghz machines. Apart from Powerbook G3 power supplies, I've never had a lemon. I know they're out there my brother's PBG4 display went phut and gareth's when phut somehow as well, but nothing has ever happened to me.

Ed (dali), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 06:03 (fourteen years ago) link

Not to gloat or anything, but Tom, do sparks leap out of your fingers, do metal objects stick to you, has a genius ever suggested that you might be the problem that you are fundamentally incompatible with Apple products.

Ed (dali), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 06:07 (fourteen years ago) link

(Hey, does anyone know when the next round of new hardware releases is likely to hit?)

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 06:35 (fourteen years ago) link

WWDC, August 7th

Ed (dali), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 07:12 (fourteen years ago) link

someone ought to use statistits to see what the likelyhood of all this awful shit happening to tom is...

Machibuse '80 (ex machina), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 10:40 (fourteen years ago) link

I dunno what is "all this awful shit" since only the last three macs I've (we've) bought have had issues, and I treated my old powerbook like crap. Before that I had a turquoise 300mhz iBook that still runs, AFAIK, a handmedown black PB that had a monitor cable problem once, and an 8500 that worked like a charm.

I only got the 20" iMac because I figured it had been in production long enough that they ought to have worked out any major problems.

The rest of "all this awful shit" is pretty much OS X being 100% crappier than advertised. Shit, Ableton & Firefox run on Windows too, I'll just get a core duo ugly machine, at least they don't obfuscate the living shit out of their fucking directory structure and I CAN USE THE TAB KEY TO ENTER DATA INTO ALL FIELDS, TEXT OR OTHERWISE, WHEN I'M ON THE INTARNERT. HOLY SHIT LET'S NOT LET PEOPLE DO THAT, LET'S INVENT A MOUSE WITH A NIPPLE ON IT INSTEAD.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 12:49 (fourteen years ago) link

LET'S INVENT A MOUSE WITH A NIPPLE ON IT INSTEAD.

First attempts prove unsuccessful:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1945000/images/_1949073_mouse_ear300.jpg

Earwig oh! (Mark C), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 13:33 (fourteen years ago) link

Tom, your powerbook didn't have any actual hardware related problems either, you just broke it. Two different things. So, really, you're talking about ONE "awful shit" occurring. Everything else that Jon is classifying as "awful shit" happening to you is--whoa, sit down, wait for it--actually just that you and he disagree on how you want your operating systems to work, not, like, anything actually bad has happened. He'll come around to your point of view in another year, considering he's already backed down/changed opinion on several OS/software-related things.

Allyzay knows where the interfacing goes. (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 13:46 (fourteen years ago) link

Jon still being unable to understand the difference between "iTunes is a shit program" and "awful shit happened to me" shocker.

Allyzay knows where the interfacing goes. (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 13:46 (fourteen years ago) link

I just said all of that!

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 13:51 (fourteen years ago) link

I am dropping by to wonder out loud how Apple can make two laptop lines, one for goofy Hello Kitty fans/iPod dweebs (Macbook) and one for serious-minded horn-rimmed advertising lackeys (Macbook Pro) and GIVE EACH ONE THE SAME DESPERATELY PATHETIC AMOUNT OF BUILT-IN RAM as if the Macbook Pro people are going to use, like, Mail and maybe Word sometimes and that's it???? I mean these are your "creative Powerusers" or whatever, of course they're going to IMMEDIATELY want to open up Final Cut Pro, Word, Photoshop, Quark, all at once, oh and ITUNES so that they can do all this with only the coolest beats jamming along behind them in the background - because everyone knows iTunes plays COOLER MUSIC than other music players - but can you?? Can you fuck! It's like letting you buy a Camaro but charging extra for fourth gear.

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 13:56 (fourteen years ago) link

iTunes isn't as shit as iPHOto though, seriously.

I CAN USE THE TAB KEY TO ENTER DATA INTO ALL FIELDS, TEXT OR OTHERWISE, WHEN I'M ON THE INTARNERT. HOLY SHIT LET'S NOT LET PEOPLE DO THAT, LET'S INVENT A MOUSE WITH A NIPPLE ON IT INSTEAD.

PREFERENCES, KEYBOARD AND MOUSE, KEYBOARD SHORTCUTS, FULL KEYBOARD ACCESS. THE END. (WORKS IN SAFARI AND FIREFOX)

Machibuse '80 (ex machina), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 14:51 (fourteen years ago) link

SHITTY DEFAULT SETTINGS IS TOTALLY BITING THE MSFT STEEZ

THANKS THOUGH MAYBE I'LL GET TO TRY IT AFTER I GET A BRAND NEW ONE FROM THE GENIUSES THIS AFTERNOON

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 15:26 (fourteen years ago) link

I'll knock on wood here too and say i've had no trouble at all with my brand spankin' new imac.

Any ideas on what I should do with my old cyan G3 - i just don't think i can part with it (even tho the thing is 100% dead). Maybe fill it with skittles or turn it into a toaster?

XPOST

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 15:29 (fourteen years ago) link

http://static.flickr.com/71/204146872_7a70180d1b_o.png

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 18:22 (fourteen years ago) link

http://static.flickr.com/60/204150932_e2de94c3a7_o.png

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 18:27 (fourteen years ago) link

my problems with 10.4.7 stemmed from the fasct that it seemed to not remember any passwords in my keychain leading to: mail asking me for passwords every 5 minutes. msn messenger wouldn't launch. i couldnt use webmail in safari.

there were other small bugs including the fact that my audioscrobbler wouldnt work (it kept asking for my password and when i provided it a dialogue box would come up telling me it was already saved in my keychain followed by another DiagBox asing for my password).

most importantly for me, but not for you, was the fact that my arch drawing package powerCADD wouldnt run at all.

jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 18:52 (fourteen years ago) link

REBUILD 1 KEYCHAIN HIPPIE

Machibuse '80 (ex machina), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 19:06 (fourteen years ago) link

My Macbook has been struck by the affliction that's affecting quite a number of the machines; it keeps switching itself off, eventually getting into a cycle of turning itself off every time you hit the power button. A PMU reset fixes it, or at least allows you to boot it up, but the problem comes back a few hours later. What fun. It's in with AppleCare at the moment, but many have got their machine back 'fixed' only to have it begin again a few days afterwards…

carson dial (carson dial), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 19:07 (fourteen years ago) link

I am dropping by to wonder out loud how Apple can make two laptop lines, one for goofy Hello Kitty fans/iPod dweebs (Macbook) and one for serious-minded horn-rimmed advertising lackeys (Macbook Pro) and GIVE EACH ONE THE SAME DESPERATELY PATHETIC AMOUNT OF BUILT-IN RAM as if the Macbook Pro people are going to use, like, Mail and maybe Word sometimes and that's it????

Do you not realize that Apple basically ships computers with JUST enough RAM to run the OS and core apps??? The first generation G4 towers had 64 MB for Chrissake!!!

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 19:59 (fourteen years ago) link

Isn't it incredibly stupid to let everyone else get a two-week to one-month jump on announcing their new Intel products while Apple waits for SPECIAL MEDIA EVENTS so that Steve can pleasure himself before the geeks?

milo z (mlp), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 20:27 (fourteen years ago) link

Do you not realize that EVERYONE basically ships computers with JUST enough RAM to run the OS and core apps???

Machibuse '80 (ex machina), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 20:36 (fourteen years ago) link

Not really. All the laptops I see in the $1500-2000+ range all come with one or two GB. All the new Dell and Gateway Core 2 desktops are shipping with at least a gig.

milo z (mlp), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 20:37 (fourteen years ago) link

Wow, some of those Dells come with 2 gigs. Color me surprised

Machibuse '80 (ex machina), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 20:45 (fourteen years ago) link

I am dealing with a seemingly knowledgeable and helpful Genius Bar person now who is also a BRITISHES!!!! I have fallen into Opposites Universe

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 20:52 (fourteen years ago) link

I bought an EXTRA 512mb to make sure my iMac didn't suck and it is about to turn out that that's how I got BURNED!

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 20:53 (fourteen years ago) link

Actually I should retract part of the above statement since TBH every customer service person I've ever met who was of British descent has been incredibly competent, polite and professional.

Now he's replacing the RAM and running SECRET TESTING in the back room which is frankly extraordinary, if I had taken this to the old Apple Store in Clarendon I'm sure those folks wold have just packed it up and shipped it off and not even told me they were sorry.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 21:05 (fourteen years ago) link

Are you at Pentagon City, Tombot? Turn back, turn back. Get computer while still can and get out of store.

Although I do remember there being a fairly competent Britishers genius replacing ipods left and right when I was there.

Mary (Mary), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 21:11 (fourteen years ago) link

My case was deferred to Britishes by a large samoan-looking fellow with glasses and ambitious facial hair. Britishes also just handed the folks next to me two brand-new 4GB Nanos because their batteries were being shit!

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 21:13 (fourteen years ago) link

$900 worth of motherboard work for free! Should be back on Wedensday with no HD wiping or anything.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 21:29 (fourteen years ago) link

TBH every customer service person I've ever met who was of British descent has been incredibly competent, polite and professional

that's weird: the only remotely useful CS dude i've dealt with recently was a bloke called ryan in the states somewhere.

plus ca something-or-other, or something.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 21:41 (fourteen years ago) link

I am dropping by to wonder out loud how Apple can make two laptop lines, one for goofy Hello Kitty fans/iPod dweebs (Macbook) and one for serious-minded horn-rimmed advertising lackeys (Macbook Pro) and GIVE EACH ONE THE SAME DESPERATELY PATHETIC AMOUNT OF BUILT-IN RAM as if the Macbook Pro people are going to use, like, Mail and maybe Word sometimes and that's it????

Based on the (admittedly) small sampling of laptops and work environments I've run across, I'll give you even odds that most MacBook Pro users are only using Microsoft Office - specifically Entourage, Word, and PowerPoint. Most of them don't care how much RAM they have, they only care that it's not the "low end" model, it runs PowerPoint, can connect to an Exchange server, will output to some sort of LCD projector, and connect to an iPod.

Even in graphic, video, film, audio freak central here in LA - most of the users I run across are Office people and that's it. The geek crowd are already going to max out their RAM from Kingston or Crucial so there's no incentive for Apple to put more RAM in it - especially given the constant volatility of the RAM market.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 21:50 (fourteen years ago) link

Since Office requires Rosetta, that makes it even worse. Office don't run for shit on an Intel Mac with 512MB.

milo z (mlp), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 21:52 (fourteen years ago) link

I finally witnessed some major iTunes fuckery on a friends laptop last week. It began with a freeze, then a forced restart wherein the blinking '?' appeared over and over after many boots. Booted from the install disk to run Disk Utility and hard drive could not be found?! Gave up. Next day, reset PRAM on a whim and it started up... but Disk Utility failed to run with an error message. Turns out the error was AN ITUNES FILE WHICH HAD TO BE TAKEN OUT WHILE DISK UTILITY RAN THEN PUT BACK IN WTF ITUNES WTF ITUNES WTFITUNESWTFITUENSKFJKGLWRJGjg

Lmaoborghini (eman), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 22:14 (fourteen years ago) link

512MB RAM is not "Pro", is my only point.

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 22:30 (fourteen years ago) link

if all they run is office, why bother having a Mac?

kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 22:33 (fourteen years ago) link

OMG Tom

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 22:42 (fourteen years ago) link

if all they run is office, why bother having a Mac?

They "heard it was better."

Seriously, that's the reason they give. I wasn't going to argue with them since they were paying me to set things up, but in a few of the cases the client bought an iPod at a Apple store (because iPods are an It Item) and then decided to buy a new laptop while they're at it.

Meanwhile, they want to connect it to a corporate network via some weird VPN protocol, connect to an Exchange server, sync to their Blackberry, blah blah blah. To be fair, I like these types of clients more than the OS jihadists though.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 23:07 (fourteen years ago) link

if all they run is office, why bother having a Mac?

it's this amazing new invention called "choice".

sorry, kyle, what's your point here? i'm not exactly a power user. should i not be allowed a mac either? fuck's sake, we should be happy people are buying the bloody things ... ten years ago i'd have bet good money apple was on the way out.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 2 August 2006 06:43 (fourteen years ago) link

Apple's reputation for shipping machines without enough RAM really goes back to the first Mac - and the decision to ship the first Mac with only 128k was made directly by Steve Jobs. Even the fact that they were potentially upgradable to 512k had to be kept a secret from him by the engineering team.

But then, nowadays they have a hugely bloated OS. My PC runs fine in 512M, and has quite a lot more stuff running on it than your average Mac.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Wednesday, 2 August 2006 07:09 (fourteen years ago) link

not to mention that running a Mac means no spyware or virus worries (yet.)

I've always been appalled that Macs don't come loaded to the gills with more RAM.

don weiner (don weiner), Wednesday, 2 August 2006 11:51 (fourteen years ago) link

OK did no one else see the Eli of All Cosmos up there??????

Also, grimley, I'm fairly certain his point was "Why purchase a more expensive machine if it will only run Office?" and, quite frankly son, your answer needs work.

ps the real answer is that theoretically the damn things should work better than that, kyle.

Allyzay knows where the interfacing goes. (allyzay), Wednesday, 2 August 2006 14:48 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't know TOM's flickr links never work. Perhaps the photo is flagged private?

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 2 August 2006 14:50 (fourteen years ago) link

Hijacking a Macbook in 60 Seconds or Less

The video shows Ellch and Maynor targeting a specific security flaw in the Macbook's wireless "device driver," ... While those device driver flaws are particular to the Macbook -- and presently not publicly disclosed -- Maynor said the two have found at least two similar flaws in device drivers for wireless cards either designed for or embedded in machines running the Windows OS. Still, the presenters said they ultimately decided to run the demo against a Mac due to what Maynor called the "Mac user base aura of smugness on security."

"We're not picking specifically on Macs here, but if you watch those 'Get a Mac' commercials enough, it eventually makes you want to stab one of those users in the eye with a lit cigarette or something," Maynor said.

W i l l (common_person), Wednesday, 2 August 2006 15:04 (fourteen years ago) link

the second one should work! since i do them by actually pasting screenshots into PAINT and then "Save As" it originally had a bunch of stupid underlines for spelling and grammar (UH) and it looked like amateurish dribble. so I deleted it 30 seconds after uploading. much like the horrible photo of myself i took with photobooth.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 2 August 2006 15:11 (fourteen years ago) link

Also, grimley, I'm fairly certain his point was "Why purchase a more expensive machine if it will only run Office?"

nah, that's a "they" meaning "they", not, er, "they".

kyle?

and hey, i think keeping a major corporation alive is a dandy reason for buying a mac. i mean, it's apple! lookit the little stripy logo and ... it smiles when you turn it on! and you have to hug it to find the switch! and ... HEY, HANG ON, WHAT HAPPENED TO THE FUCKING MACS I KNEW AND LOVED?

cunts.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 2 August 2006 19:29 (fourteen years ago) link

dude fuck a cutesy faux socialist corporation in its happy face ear.

Allyzay knows where the interfacing goes. (allyzay), Wednesday, 2 August 2006 19:32 (fourteen years ago) link

On that note,
good thing for him he made that Disney deal.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Friday, 4 August 2006 12:23 (fourteen years ago) link

Also last night we decided if the Apple ads were attempting to express a more accurate metaphor for how computers would behave if they were human beings, the Mac dude would all of a sudden vomit copious amounts of blood in the middle of a sentence followed by the PC guy violently voiding his colon and going blind.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Friday, 4 August 2006 12:39 (fourteen years ago) link

OK so in the latest dilemma of how to deal with being screwed, should I:

A) Get another Genius appointment and take this [still kernel-panicking for no reason even with brand new motherboard iMac] back to the Store for more warranty-enabled service work, or;

B) Call Applecare as soon as they open at 9am EST and ask how to exchange this "build-to-order" POS for another "build-to-order" iMac without paying some goddamn restocking fee, or how to get my $2000 back.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Monday, 7 August 2006 11:07 (fourteen years ago) link

Results 1 - 10 of about 51,800 for lemon Intel iMac. (0.12 seconds)

Results 1 - 10 of about 295,000 for Intel iMac faulty motherboard. (0.55 seconds)

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,840,000 for Intel iMac logic board replaced. (0.35 seconds)

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Monday, 7 August 2006 12:31 (fourteen years ago) link

Get your money back. This is some bullshit.

Jesus Dan (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 August 2006 12:58 (fourteen years ago) link

I was all primed to buy an Intel Mac but now I think I'm going to wait a while.

Jesus Dan (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 August 2006 12:59 (fourteen years ago) link

I took option B) and got asked to run Disk Utility. So I made another Genius Bar appointment that based on the results of running Disk Utility from the Install CD when I get home will probably be cancelled, because Dan OTM.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Monday, 7 August 2006 13:07 (fourteen years ago) link

Fucking Disk Utility. Oh yes, I never thought of that, I'm sure frequent kernel panicking is happening because A FILE HAS BAD PERMISSIONS. That's Unix for you, right!

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Monday, 7 August 2006 13:09 (fourteen years ago) link

tombot that is some crap.

u hve probably tried this, and it's basically the same as running disk utility, but have you tried starting up in single-user mode and running "/sbin/fsck -fy" ? if that comes up clean then it definitely is not your HD (bad sectors, etc.) .and must be some borked NON-motherboard piece of hardware on the thing but it's like the time i got hives after taking dayquil, i went to the doctor and they're like "well you're allergic to dayquil" and i'm like "yes, but what specifically am i allergic to?" and they're like "we don't know, dayquil has like 14 things in it."

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 7 August 2006 13:32 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah components on mobo failing seems more likely to me, even 2 times in a row, with the kind of shit that's happening. It's happening when I'm not even doing anything, leave it alone for 20 minutes and chances are it'll just die. Doesn't sound like HD to me but whatever.

Honestly I'll do that and run DU out of a sense of diligence and optimism that perhaps it really is some kind of trivial issue but I'm so, so sick of fucking with this thing already.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Monday, 7 August 2006 14:01 (fourteen years ago) link

Perhaps they will announce the solution to this problem at today's WWDC kickoff.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Monday, 7 August 2006 14:24 (fourteen years ago) link

computers without components (the emperor's new Mac Pro)

Ed (dali), Monday, 7 August 2006 14:25 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm gonna bet Apple $2013 that Leopard does something really really unnecessary by default and I'm going to think it's totally dumb just like spotlight and dashboard

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Monday, 7 August 2006 14:37 (fourteen years ago) link

spotlight 2.0 apparently, and widgets that can escape from the confines of the dashboard

Ed (dali), Monday, 7 August 2006 14:40 (fourteen years ago) link

does anyone really use spotlight? quicksilver is so much cooler.

gbx (skowly), Monday, 7 August 2006 14:40 (fourteen years ago) link

The thing is it is difficult to run "Disk Utility" when the computer will not even "start up in any mode at all, whatsoever" 98% of the time? Or maybe that's just my opinion, I'm no "Genius."

Allyzay knows where the interfacing goes. (allyzay), Monday, 7 August 2006 14:41 (fourteen years ago) link

i use it occasionally but only because I haven't bothered to install anything else.

Ed (dali), Monday, 7 August 2006 14:42 (fourteen years ago) link

Quicksilver is really slow for me, but I'm on a sissy G4. I've limited the number of things it puts in the catalog which helps a lot.

Machibuse '80 (ex machina), Monday, 7 August 2006 14:42 (fourteen years ago) link

so, you'd like to make yourself a ...body without organs

boot from a CD, then fsck a couple of times and see what comes up

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 7 August 2006 14:48 (fourteen years ago) link

Apple's hardware strategy boggles the mind. Shipping a $2500 desktop with a graphics card that retails for $100? Not having a single expandable desktop under $2100 (if you don't get 802.11G or Bluetooth or a second DVD drive and you get a 160GB hard drive instead of 250).

milo z (mlp), Monday, 7 August 2006 19:04 (fourteen years ago) link

disk utility ran just fine. However somehow my 218 MB system update failed the checksum so I have to start over.

Today's WWDC keynote was really insulting. There's not a single thing mentioned that's of any interest to me (or most mac users I know) at all. Gotta love that Steve's big deal was explaining that all these years after Outlook made us hate getting e-mail, you can now replicate that awful experience with Mac OS. If I can't get this iMac's issues worked out it's fucking newegg.com for me.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Monday, 7 August 2006 19:20 (fourteen years ago) link

"most mac users" != Mac developers

For me, core animation is pretty goddamn cool. If you hate Mail, then switch to Thunderbird already and stop crying.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Monday, 7 August 2006 19:30 (fourteen years ago) link

What I find annoying about recent WWDC keynotes is the relative dearth of non-PR developer information. Today's keynote was basically interchangeable with a Macworld one, focusing on whizzy crap that has no bearing on me as a programmer. Or have the 43 folders/Getting Things Done cult infested so many coders now that iCal/iChat/Mail news qualifies as Important Developer Information.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Monday, 7 August 2006 19:39 (fourteen years ago) link

as a friend put it, "wow... live updating dilbert."

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 7 August 2006 19:44 (fourteen years ago) link

Me: "OK Steve, enough about iChat - could you tell me something about XCode 3 and 10.5 Server? I think they're just a little bit more important. k thx bye."

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Monday, 7 August 2006 19:44 (fourteen years ago) link

almost as bad as earlier this year when the big announcement was a $100 ipod case

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 7 August 2006 19:45 (fourteen years ago) link

Me: "OK Steve, enough about iChat - could you tell me something about XCode 3 and 10.5 Server? I think they're just a little bit more important. k thx bye."

Yeah, I think that was the argument just being made re: stfu about your really piss-poor Outlook rip off and its ability to turn into a to-do list!

Allyzay knows where the interfacing goes. (allyzay), Monday, 7 August 2006 19:47 (fourteen years ago) link

Live updating Dilbert sounds like 6th level of Hades, btw.

Allyzay knows where the interfacing goes. (allyzay), Monday, 7 August 2006 19:49 (fourteen years ago) link

Where was Server virtualisation and 4GB fibre channel and XServe RAID, extra codecs for QuickTime (2K, 4K, 24p as well). Ok maybe this is for NAB next year. About the only thing of interest was handling close captioning in quicktime, there was no indication of how this was going to work, whether you could write to the whole VBI, just line 21 or just read.

The most exiting thing was moving the graphics slot so a double width card didn't block a slot and a novel way of mounting hard drives.

Ed (dali), Monday, 7 August 2006 19:57 (fourteen years ago) link

my point up above about why buy a mac if all they wanted to do was run office was simply that MS updates office more frequently for Mac; they have a barely useable email program in there in place of outlook; etc. not that there'a nything wrong with macs (I prefer them myself) but I figured someone who only uses Office and Office-type programs would go with a cheaper machine where the application has more support.

kyle (akmonday), Monday, 7 August 2006 20:21 (fourteen years ago) link

Time Machine explains the interest in ZFS I think, but not a single other damn interesting thing there. I think keynotes like that are the ones that should make Steve realise he's surrounded with Yes men who are actually doing fuck-all apart from telling him what he wants to hear.

stet (stet), Monday, 7 August 2006 20:22 (fourteen years ago) link

Gah, I have just realised that 10.4.7 has disabled the function keys on my MBP and I get the beach-ball when I try and get into the Keyboard and Mouse System Prefs pane.

Ed (dali), Monday, 7 August 2006 20:52 (fourteen years ago) link

Goddamnit, why couldn't His Steveness demo the Xray part of Xcode 3? That would have been several hundred times more useful...

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Monday, 7 August 2006 21:53 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm paying for Mail, I can bitch about it. In fact, if you put together all the bundled "iLife" etc. bullshit that came with my computer that I'll never use, I have a lot to bitch about, not the least of which is Dashboard, which is a resource hog that does absolutely nothing.

I have spent the better part of a day thinking about what my $Mac could buy in $PC and have decided that unless they somehow miraculously find out that my computer is perfectly fine after I take it back in this afternoon, I'm going to ask for a straight refund, and I'm going to buy a shuttle pc with Office & XP Pro and I'm going to run Ubuntu on the back half.

Fuck Apple and their Aqua Music Chat Party Store People Plan.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 8 August 2006 16:55 (fourteen years ago) link

Will you never post on these threads again?

Machibuse '80 (ex machina), Tuesday, 8 August 2006 17:17 (fourteen years ago) link

Hopefully. I mean it is called I HATE APPLE, though.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 8 August 2006 17:40 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm sure if he buys a slightly less dysfunctional PC that he'll be back - whenever it starts to fuck up - to curse Apple for forcing him into buying a PC!

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 8 August 2006 18:03 (fourteen years ago) link

as I said, the mac guy should display symptoms of ebola, and the pc should suffer severe complications from a congenital connective tissue disorder. but there's absolutely no killer app left for me on OS X and it's not as if build quality is an issue any longer either.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 8 August 2006 18:20 (fourteen years ago) link

WARNING: Wizard Jon Loves the Blinky Fucking Red Text!!!!

Shoes say, yeah, no hands clap your good bra. (goodbra), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 04:39 (fourteen years ago) link

you guys i "found it"

http://cogosx.sourceforge.net/

gapless playback, does .flacs

basically this is what i've been looking for for years - a replacement for SoundApp

i have gotten excited about music all over again. i have spent the last hour cleaning out my old music folder, creating Smart Folders in the finder to duplicate the smart playlists i used to have and g*ddamn it it's DONE. even the "use the search box to immediately filter library" functionality is there - cause i use the finder for all that crap. let the finder be the finder, let cog be cog

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 08:28 (fourteen years ago) link

i know, admittedly it's not the sexiest name, but it is SIMPLE and ELEGANT and not halfassed; it's all the things iTunes is not

i would like the ability to edit ID3 info on the fly (but iTunes doesn't do that either)

new versions apparently offer suspiciously spruced-up appearance. i hope they don't ruin it.

for those who want even more of a stripped down experience, i have also found this, which, while not exactly an iTunes replacement, is far preferable than firing up a whole Store System/Library Manager in order to hear some track you are 75% sure you're going to delete anyway; it's very nice and doesn't even open an app icon in the dock - it just plays what's opened with it and quits as soon as that thing's done - "taply" - http://www.bluem.net/downloads/taply-en/

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 08:34 (fourteen years ago) link

Do it make the iPod go wheeeee?

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 11:23 (fourteen years ago) link

i What?

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 13:06 (fourteen years ago) link

why not just preview the track in the finder window?

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 14:20 (fourteen years ago) link

instead of using Taply, you mean? yeah, could do. i hate column view though.

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 14:27 (fourteen years ago) link

finder blows so hard

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 14:28 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah. i'd rather have one place and way to look for things (spotlight/smart folders/finder) though than a slightly different fiddly ways in each app, each of which may or may not be doing things to my actual files. so i put up with the finder because it just feels better to me to be dealing with actual files. you wouldn't BELIEVE the gunk i found in my music folder after doing my cull.. i feel like i've just done Master Cleanse or something. five identical versions of "my boy lollipop"! maybe i just use iTunes "wrong" - i.e. when i load up a song in it that i don't like, i Cmd-delete it, and it says - sometimes - that it's going to move it to the trash. but does it? does it fuck. this way, i just filter my music folder by keyword, drag - or select and double-click - and it's added to my stack in cog. if i want to save that, i can either get that playlist just how i want it and then save it - or i can just save my filtered music folder as another smart folder. i doubt i'll get that into it though. for now, i've only made one smart folder: it shows me all music that i've downloaded in the last week. i have even dipped a toe into the automator fannydangle by setting up an action that, with one click, renames everything in that smart folder according to its ID3 tags. next step is to see if i can get that action triggered the moment anything is added to the smart folder. why - no reason, really, i just like my filenames to all be consistent. and if i want to get all arsey about ranking my songs or something i can just assign labels and make smart folders for those.

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 14:42 (fourteen years ago) link

hahaha u know when computer types start using the words "just" and "simply" they have drank the kool-ade

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 14:50 (fourteen years ago) link

I wonder how much disgusting unnecessary overlap there is between the indices built by iTunes/iPhoto and SpotLight.

If and when I finally get to take home a healthy iMac I am stoked to try out this Cog thingamabob.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 14:55 (fourteen years ago) link

Oh and BTW everybody should also read Jay Beale's slides from DEFCON 14.
http://www.bastille-linux.org/jay/

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 14:57 (fourteen years ago) link

hahaha u know when computer types start using the words "just" and "simply" they have drank the kool-ade

is that me you're talkign about?!

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 15:00 (fourteen years ago) link

no me!

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 15:22 (fourteen years ago) link

i am always talking about me.

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 15:23 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm paying for Mail, I can bitch about it. In fact, if you put together all the bundled "iLife" etc. bullshit that came with my computer that I'll never use, I have a lot to bitch about, not the least of which is Dashboard, which is a resource hog that does absolutely nothing.

1) Back up ALL your personal data: emails, mp3s, mpgs, the whole lot.
2) Wipe your Mac hard drive and do a clean install. Choose the "Customize" option and deselect the iLife programs (along with the 5 million printer drivers). Keep iTunes, though, you'll likely want it.
3) When your machine reboots & you've set your accounts back up, remove Dashboard from your dock.
4) Search for a folder called "Widgets". Delete its contents.
5) Ta-da! No more iLife, no more Dashboard.
6) QUIT BLOODY WHINGING.

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 17:02 (fourteen years ago) link

I was using 10.3.9 until yesterday. Then I thought what the hell and installed a copy of Tiger. At first, my (700Mhz, 512MB) G4 seemed a bit snappier than before. Then I ran the combo update to 10.4.7 and I'm getting spinning beach balls a-plenty. Much worse than when I was with Panther. I'm thinking of going back to that.

Can the 10.4.7 update really have fucked things up that badly or was I just lucky in the hour or so that I was on 10.4.0?

Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 17:08 (fourteen years ago) link

And why the fuck is Safari using 130MB of RAM when the only page I have open is this poxy one?

Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 17:10 (fourteen years ago) link

so LAST TIME it was the logic board AND the RAM and THIS TIME it was just the RAM, that they weren't able to figure out last time because the whole mobo was acting up.

MAYBE IT WORKS NOW?!?! WE WILL SEE

xpost 6) There was a time in Mac days when that process was intuitive and the Finder was my primary tool for accomplishing those steps, instead of going and BLOODY WHINGING to unix sysadmins.

7) The Jay Beale slides from DEFCON deal with only one pane of System Preferences, but excellently illustrate the duplicitous wackness, shit defaults and general-purpose user-handicapping that goes on all over OS X.

8) SHUT THE FUCK UP AND PAY ATTENTION to what I'm saying about my valid problems with this OS and quit acting like you get a paycheck from Jesus Jobs for standing up for his false adverts and lazy, bad MSFT-style design decisions.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 17:13 (fourteen years ago) link

so LAST TIME it was the logic board AND the RAM and THIS TIME it was just the RAM, that they weren't able to figure out last time because the whole mobo was acting up.

MAYBE IT WORKS NOW?!?! WE WILL SEE

xpost 6) There was a time in Mac days when that process was intuitive and the Finder was my primary tool for accomplishing those steps, instead of going and BLOODY WHINGING to unix sysadmins.

7) The Jay Beale slides from DEFCON deal with only one pane of System Preferences, but excellently illustrate the duplicitous wackness, shit defaults and general-purpose user-handicapping that goes on all over OS X.

8) SHUT THE FUCK UP AND PAY ATTENTION to what I'm saying about my valid problems with this OS and quit acting like you get a paycheck from Jesus Jobs for standing up for his false adverts and lazy, bad MSFT-style design decisions.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 17:13 (fourteen years ago) link

haha well I guess the html checker is broken, that bold tag wasn't closed and I tried to get rid of it, whoops.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 17:14 (fourteen years ago) link

For the record, Tombot, I USE BOTH MAC AND WINDOWS. ALL. THE. FUCKING. TIME. I am the absolute FIRST person to shut down ANY platform zealotry that happens around me. I don't have time for that shit.

DO NOT tell me to shut the fuck up and pay attention. I've been following this thread since day one - I was the one with the busted Shuffle, remember? The one that they ultimately replaced???

Believe it or not, I was TRYING to help you, but you're obviously too wrapped up in the bullshit conspiracy theory that Apple has gone out of its way to inconvenience YOU AND YOU PERSONALLY.

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 17:50 (fourteen years ago) link

(dude that's totally what Apple is doing)

Jesus Dan (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 17:54 (fourteen years ago) link

It's an i-spiracy!

Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 17:56 (fourteen years ago) link

(also I don't know if "QUIT BLOODY WHINGING" goes down a treat with other people when you are helping them but it seems kind of obvious to me that it's a surefire way to get Tom to type a million variations of "EAT MY ENTIRE SMELLY ASS WITH CHOPSTICKS" in humorous caps)

Jesus Dan (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 17:59 (fourteen years ago) link

Exactly. And he spelled whining wrong too.

Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 18:03 (fourteen years ago) link

(I mean, I'm just saying; I think the whole thing is kind of funny)

Jesus Dan (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 18:04 (fourteen years ago) link

Exactly. And he spelled whining wrong too.

Nope. I said "whinging", not "whining".

http://infosecuritymag.techtarget.com/2003/jan/curmudgeon.shtml

(also I don't know if "QUIT BLOODY WHINGING" goes down a treat with other people when you are helping them but it seems kind of obvious to me that it's a surefire way to get Tom to type a million variations of "EAT MY ENTIRE SMELLY ASS WITH CHOPSTICKS" in humorous caps)


What can I say? I'm more than a little burnt out after 6 years of DAW-related Apple support, and I jumped at the chance to say something that my old job essentially forbade me to do.

My point is that while I can totally sympathize with Tombot's hardware issues, it strikes me as utterly petty & churlish to bitch about Dashboard and iLife when it's easy enough to get rid of both of 'em. They strike me as the absolute least of Tombot's worries, or they oughta be.

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 18:12 (fourteen years ago) link

dude, wiping your entire hard drive to get rid of a couple programs isn't really the easiest thing in the world.

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 18:14 (fourteen years ago) link


xpost
Right, thanks for all that. But you still spelled the word wrong.

It's W-H-I-N-I-N-G.

Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 18:17 (fourteen years ago) link

it strikes me as utterly petty & churlish to bitch about Dashboard and iLife when it's easy enough to get rid of both of 'em.
That's not the point, though. The issue is that Apple gives us flare (Dashboard mostly, I suppose there are people who use iLife) rather than fixing things that screw up.

milo z (mlp), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 18:23 (fourteen years ago) link

Yes, "whining" is spelled w-h-i-n-i-n-g.

However, "whinging" is spelled w-h-i-N-G-i-n-g, as in "Wow, Mr. Que sure is doing an awful lot of whinging about the correct spelling of the word "whining".

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 18:24 (fourteen years ago) link

Dude, it's the same word just spelled differently. As y'all are wont to do.

Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 18:27 (fourteen years ago) link

dude, wiping your entire hard drive to get rid of a couple programs isn't really the easiest thing in the world.
-- s1ocki (slytus...), Today 3:14 PM. (later)

Granted, that's more of a worst-case scenario, like "Well, if you're THAT desperate..."
Dashboard is simple enough to delete - just drag the icon out of your dock, and trash any existing widgets on your Mac HD - without reformatting anything. I'm guessing one could simply delete the iApps (along with their preferences), but I'd be worried about not getting rid of them completely.

The issue is that Apple gives us flare (Dashboard mostly, I suppose there are people who use iLife) rather than fixing things that screw up.

I know plenty of people who use iLife. Personally, I would have jumped for joy had something like Garageband existed a decade ago (and by that, I mean a COMPLETELY self-contained, entry-level MIDI & audio sequencer that needs only the simplest of external peripherals to work).

And I agree with you about Dashboard - I think it's a useless distraction. Trust me, you don't have to tell me about "flare". I was an OS 9 holdout until last year!!! My first reaction to OS X was "that's too... pretty". But the interface grew on me over time, and what ultimately won me over was its multi-tasking abililties, and this is what gets me when people rant about OS X: Does anyone really miss not being able to have more than two apps open at the same time, or having to remember which user set of extensions was active? I certainly don't.

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 18:40 (fourteen years ago) link

Who will help me with my lovely Tiger query? What exactly is the point of Tiger? Is it generally thought to slow down machines of my spec? I only installed it so that I could use Google Earth and then I found out Google had released a version that works on 10.3 anyway.

(btw. I don't get Mr Que's whinge/whine thing. They are different words. Dogs don't whinge, for example. Am I missing some joke?)


Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 19:07 (fourteen years ago) link

Does anyone really miss not being able to have more than two apps open at the same time

Wha'? I (have to) use OS 9 at work and usually have about five apps open at once. Not that I'm sticking up for OS 9. It's rubbish.

Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 19:08 (fourteen years ago) link

i use itunes and iphoto. garageband very occasionally if i need incidental music for a video fast. imovie very very occasionally cuz some of its effects are easier & faster than after effects.

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 19:14 (fourteen years ago) link

idvd i don't get near. it sucks.

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 19:14 (fourteen years ago) link

(also if there's a good iphoto alternative i'm all into hearing about it)

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 19:15 (fourteen years ago) link

Alba, I'm running a Quicksilver G4 which has been hot-rodded to be 1.42 Ghz (thank you, Sonnet Technologies), with 1.5 RAM (Logic Pro and Pro Tools are RAM hogs). I'm running Tiger 10.4.6, which does indeed seem a little zippier than Panther. It might be worth rolling back to 10.4.6 (a pain in the bum, I realize) - I purposely haven't upgraded to 10.4.7 because some of my fellow audio nerds told me they were experiencing weirdness.

My experiences with OS 9 were primarily music-related, and I found that if I was running Logic Audio and Pro Tools LE, then even booting a relatively "small" app like Roxio Toast was just asking for a freezeup. Pretty much everyone I knew who made music with OS 9 had similar problems.

As far as the whole whinging vs. whining thing goes, they are clearly different words to me, too. Don't know what Mr. Que was driving at there.

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 19:17 (fourteen years ago) link

I use just about everything in iLife. iMovie when I just want to capture some video and don't want to bother with FinalCut.

Hell, I even use Pages when I have a Word file to convert. Otherwise, it's BBEdit for writing or InDesign when I need to process words.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 19:18 (fourteen years ago) link

*running Logic Audio and OR Pro Tools LE*

Oops.

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 19:20 (fourteen years ago) link

What's the best way to roll back to 10.4.6? Do I have to reinstall Tiger and then find the combo upgrade to 10.4.6 somewhere?

Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 19:23 (fourteen years ago) link

Sadly, yes, although the 10.4.6 Combo Upgrade is still on the Apple site:

http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/macosx1046comboforppc.html

A "rollback" option would be sweet, wouldn't it?

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 19:26 (fourteen years ago) link

"flair"

alba, tiger has "spotlight" which is still a little too slow but is cool cos it indexes like everything on your hard drive including mail, address book, the contents of word docs, etc - i like it a lot

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 19:28 (fourteen years ago) link

Yeah, I guess there is that. I haven't used it much so far. I used to use the Search thing on previous OS X versions that did the same thing but not as well (and if I needed to search Mail I used Mail's search). I don't often need to search for things on my HD. I guess if I rely on Spotlight then I might start using my computer differently and use it more. Dunno.

Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 19:32 (fourteen years ago) link

"flair"

God damn it, you're right.

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 19:38 (fourteen years ago) link

A "rollback" option would be sweet, wouldn't it?

can "time machine" do that??

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 19:39 (fourteen years ago) link

The word "whinge" doesn't really exist in most of north america, or at least isn't used at all. I've never heard it in my life.

I'm guilty of iPhoto use, mostly to batch unload photos before uploading to flickr. iTunes as well, although the rest of the iLife stuff I barely touch. I have no idea what people have against Dashboard though, I've only ever had one widget that ate memory and even know a few people who use konfabulator on their pcs for a