― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 11:04 (twenty-one years ago) link
this is by far the best explanation i've heard.
― andy, Wednesday, 6 November 2002 11:09 (twenty-one years ago) link
― chaki (chaki), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 11:13 (twenty-one years ago) link
+ the old folks are her parents!
― minna (minna), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 11:15 (twenty-one years ago) link
― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 11:46 (twenty-one years ago) link
It's all about failure, jealousy and what what might have been, innit?
― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 12:09 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Queen G (Queeng), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 12:47 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 13:30 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 13:36 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Genevieve, Wednesday, 6 November 2002 16:13 (twenty-one years ago) link
Salon did the same kind of shite for Memento.
― DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 16:16 (twenty-one years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 16:31 (twenty-one years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 16:32 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 18:48 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Joe (Joe), Thursday, 7 November 2002 00:23 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Leee (Leee), Thursday, 7 November 2002 01:22 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Andrew (enneff), Thursday, 7 November 2002 01:29 (twenty-one years ago) link
― chaki (chaki), Thursday, 7 November 2002 01:53 (twenty-one years ago) link
― A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 7 November 2002 02:12 (twenty-one years ago) link
i thought it was completely soulless. the complete antithesis of everything that Mulholland Drive is in every way.
― Wyndham Earl, Thursday, 7 November 2002 02:20 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Leee (Leee), Thursday, 7 November 2002 03:54 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Queen G (Queeng), Thursday, 7 November 2002 09:26 (twenty-one years ago) link
It always seemed to me that the only people who thought Memento was revolutionary and grand were the people who hadn't seen anything done by the French for the last 50 years and somehow missed Tarantino aping that in the 90's.
― jm, Thursday, 7 November 2002 14:08 (twenty-one years ago) link
http://americasfuture.org/doublethink/fall2003/dt_fall03.pdf
― slb, Monday, 17 November 2003 12:00 (twenty years ago) link
Okay, thanks.
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 November 2003 14:39 (twenty years ago) link
― typo acapulco (gcannon), Monday, 17 November 2003 14:41 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 November 2003 14:42 (twenty years ago) link
btw, slb, 'americasfuture.org'?? i raise my middle finger to that.
― typo acapulco (gcannon), Monday, 17 November 2003 14:44 (twenty years ago) link
― Mandee (Jerrynipper), Monday, 17 November 2003 15:24 (twenty years ago) link
yeah, so maybe you're right. maybe it had no reason to be in the movie. no reason except it is funny!!!!
― RJG (RJG), Monday, 17 November 2003 15:30 (twenty years ago) link
― Girolamo Savonarola, Monday, 17 November 2003 15:34 (twenty years ago) link
diner-monster scene: dream-state travesty of the easy logic of 'man faces fear, sees its ridiculousness, is healed' >> 'man faces fear, ridiculously real; is killed.'
― typo acapulco (gcannon), Monday, 17 November 2003 15:36 (twenty years ago) link
― jed (jed_e_3), Monday, 17 November 2003 15:37 (twenty years ago) link
and yes Memento is terrible.
― jed (jed_e_3), Monday, 17 November 2003 15:40 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 November 2003 15:57 (twenty years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 November 2003 16:09 (twenty years ago) link
― Sean (Sean), Monday, 17 November 2003 18:59 (twenty years ago) link
― chester (synkro), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:30 (twenty years ago) link
― chester (synkro), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:36 (twenty years ago) link
― Dean Gulberry (deangulberry), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:39 (twenty years ago) link
― chester (synkro), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:43 (twenty years ago) link
― jed (jed_e_3), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:48 (twenty years ago) link
― chester (synkro), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:48 (twenty years ago) link
― chester (synkro), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:49 (twenty years ago) link
*REALLY* late to the table on this, but I finally saw this film this week -- and the Winkie's scene is *STILL* creeping me out.
― Alex in NYC, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 18:48 (sixteen years ago) link
still enjoying my chemical romance?
― chaki, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 18:49 (sixteen years ago) link
that scene always reminds me of DuPar's
x-post
― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 18:49 (sixteen years ago) link
I saw this for the second time a few weeks ago and have now renounced my Moebius strip theory.
― jaymc, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 18:52 (sixteen years ago) link
Remember that comedian on the Dr. Katz show who was making fun of gamers who sit in their houses all day? "How ya doin?" "Still looking for the blue key!"
Crazy how that fits with this movie.
― Pleasant Plains, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 19:24 (sixteen years ago) link
this was on tv on saturday, and i thought it was some melrose-place like tv show for the first hour.
― bell_labs, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 19:25 (sixteen years ago) link
http://www.ultimatedallas.com/backstage/shower2.gif
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 19:26 (sixteen years ago) link
the apt where they find the body of 'diane selwyn' is a few blocks away from my place.
― omar little, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 19:28 (sixteen years ago) link
http://a996.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/48/l_1e5df8e284ea606b23d861dfc52035c3.jpg
― Alex in NYC, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 21:13 (sixteen years ago) link
dude
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 21:14 (sixteen years ago) link
Yeesh.
― Pleasant Plains, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 21:15 (sixteen years ago) link
bell_labs, was it on KRON? I was wondering how they'd edit <i>those scenes</i>.
― Leee, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 22:19 (sixteen years ago) link
It kind of was some melrose-place like tv show for the first hour.
― The Yellow Kid, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 22:20 (sixteen years ago) link
i don't know, i think it was on the CW or something? they must have edited out a bunch of sexy stuff. it didn't click with me that it was "actually" a david lynch movie until the part with extended acapella roy orbison song.
― bell_labs, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 22:26 (sixteen years ago) link
what does CW stand for?
― sexyDancer, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 22:27 (sixteen years ago) link
CW = former WB, i have no idea what it stands for
― bell_labs, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 22:28 (sixteen years ago) link
It's a David Lynch movie from the moment the lights go down and the Angelo Badalamenti strikes up.
― Cosmo Vitelli, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 22:28 (sixteen years ago) link
Mrs. Dancer thinks it's "Cunt Watch"
― sexyDancer, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 22:33 (sixteen years ago) link
Yeah, I saw it on Channel 9 here, and I gather I missed some steamy girl-on-girl action and a most unsexy masturbation scene in which Naomi Watts basically hatefucks herself (or so I'm told by my neighbor). '
Still, I'm mightily creeped out by the film.
― Alex in NYC, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 22:36 (sixteen years ago) link
those scenes are key
― chaki, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 22:46 (sixteen years ago) link
also, urgent
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 22:49 (sixteen years ago) link
hairpie blurred out for DVD also: Lynch's one-chapter-only insistence basically resulted in a DVD that now no longer plays past the first hour or so. awesome :(
― sexyDancer, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 22:52 (sixteen years ago) link
it's Lynch's Lovesexy.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 22:53 (sixteen years ago) link
When I think of the glory days of the internet that salon article usually comes to mind first. WE'RE DOIN IT GUYS! WE'RE SOLVING MULHOLLAND DRIVE!
― Cosmo Vitelli, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 22:55 (sixteen years ago) link
thats weird
― chaki, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 22:56 (sixteen years ago) link
That film is weird and nobody last century would have convinced their editors to let them analyze it.
― Cosmo Vitelli, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 23:02 (sixteen years ago) link
what?
― chaki, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 23:03 (sixteen years ago) link
I see what you did there.
― Pleasant Plains, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 23:05 (sixteen years ago) link
Chaki I was half kidding about the glory days. All the same no mainstream print media would ever devote so much space to a Lynch dissection.
― Cosmo Vitelli, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 23:11 (sixteen years ago) link
you've obviously never read Cinemafantastique!
― chaki, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 23:14 (sixteen years ago) link
we need to watch this every now and then
― W4LTER, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 23:16 (sixteen years ago) link
Ya gotta love the man.
― Alex in NYC, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 00:57 (sixteen years ago) link
is Cinemafantastique still around?
― latebloomer, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 08:51 (sixteen years ago) link
i met lynch once, really sweet guy, he was very patient with my drunken fanboy friend
― gershy, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 08:54 (sixteen years ago) link
you always talk in the sec person about yrslf? ;-)
― nathalie, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 10:36 (sixteen years ago) link
He came into my office at my last job. Evidently, he's "really into cows" at the moment.
― Alex in NYC, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 13:16 (sixteen years ago) link
still never seen this movie, because it is not part of the Friday the 13th series
― J0hn D., Wednesday, 5 December 2007 15:37 (sixteen years ago) link
fair enough.
― Alex in NYC, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 16:14 (sixteen years ago) link
It will be when Freddy vs. Betty comes out
― Hurting 2, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 16:21 (sixteen years ago) link
that youtube clip is great
― Mark Clemente, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 16:23 (sixteen years ago) link
I guess all the girl-girl kissy scenes are completely removed from bowdlerized broadcast cuts?
I still can't look/think about that homeless Trent Reznor guy without a ton of anxiety.
― Leee, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 17:09 (sixteen years ago) link
likewise. As one reviewer said, it gets in your head and STAYS THERE. Although now I'll never look at Trent Reznor the same way again.
― Alex in NYC, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 21:08 (sixteen years ago) link
I had a DVD of the original TV pilot version - it was ok, didn't have the atmosphere of the movie at all. Maybe would have worked for Twin Peaks fans, though.
― milo z, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 21:11 (sixteen years ago) link
this movie is way overrated, i was so disappointed when i finally saw it. "blue velvet" is light-years better.
― J.D., Wednesday, 5 December 2007 21:24 (sixteen years ago) link
no
― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 21:37 (sixteen years ago) link
? Blue Velvet is way clumsier
― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 21:53 (sixteen years ago) link
http://www.indiewire.com/biz/lynchcow1.jpg
― The Yellow Kid, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 22:01 (sixteen years ago) link
http://www.davidlynch.de/lynchcow2.jpg
― The Yellow Kid, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 22:02 (sixteen years ago) link
Blue Velvet is not light years better. Why is it light years better?
― W4LTER, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 22:02 (sixteen years ago) link
adheres to conventional thriller narrative structure...? (just guessing)
― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 22:05 (sixteen years ago) link
i mean "blue velvet" is driven by a strong story and has countless indelible moments and still leaves me feeling like i've witnessed something astonishing and complex. MD just leaves me feeling like i've seen a long string of marginally related scenes that don't add up to anything. what exactly do you guys get out of it?
― J.D., Wednesday, 5 December 2007 22:24 (sixteen years ago) link
well, the lights go down, and you go into this WORLD...
― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 22:27 (sixteen years ago) link
More multi-plot TV pilots should be given "it was all a dream" endings and released in theatres!
― da croupier, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 22:29 (sixteen years ago) link
could any other director get away with that kind of ending? Rob Reiner didn't.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 22:31 (sixteen years ago) link
MD just leaves me feeling like i've seen a long string of marginally related scenes that don't add up to anything.
Huh? Really? It seems pretty straightforward, honestly.
― rogermexico., Wednesday, 5 December 2007 22:33 (sixteen years ago) link
Blue Velvet has never struck me as particularly complex - its a "coming of age"-type story about a young guy discovering the dark underbelly of America, etc. It has a clear beginning, middle, and end; a villain; a classic "femme fatale", etc. "Mulholland Drive" is so much more dense and intricate - involving the mutability of identity, the Hollywood "dream" (of making it big, of being in a movie, of being someone you're not); its about creative control, obsession, and denial; the nature of recorded media... so many things in there.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 22:36 (sixteen years ago) link
Including thirty minutes of "and you were there, and you were there, and you were there..."
― da croupier, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 22:40 (sixteen years ago) link
Other pilot producers must be SO fucking jealous of this movie.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 22:41 (sixteen years ago) link
Lynch has always had a thing for the Wizard of Oz
― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 22:44 (sixteen years ago) link
Hmm...Do you have theories about Gravity's Rainbow?
― Bob Six, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 22:49 (sixteen years ago) link
gravity's rainbow is about transcendence
― akm, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 22:55 (sixteen years ago) link
You seem far more convinced about the 'dream' ending than anyone I know, Anthony.
― milo z, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 22:57 (sixteen years ago) link
It's admittedly not as fun as the other theories, even though it makes perfect sense and there's nothing in the film that really contradicts it. You might wonder why her dream has subplots, but that's because Lynch didn't bother to change anything about the pilot to fit the ending he was paid to tack onto it.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 23:17 (sixteen years ago) link
It's all Octopus Grigori's fantasy of human life.
― rogermexico., Wednesday, 5 December 2007 23:19 (sixteen years ago) link
Ending is more Return To Oz than Wizard Of Oz, though.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 23:22 (sixteen years ago) link
The dream theory is otm. But it doesn't just end with "it was all a dream lol!" The harsh reality gives the dream a lot of weight.
― chaki, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 23:25 (sixteen years ago) link
i dunno the tiny tourists were pretty lol in my row
― da croupier, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 23:26 (sixteen years ago) link
tourists = her parents irl
― latebloomer, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 23:27 (sixteen years ago) link
monster/homeless guy = her high school gym teacher
cowboy walking across the restaurant = god
― da croupier, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 23:28 (sixteen years ago) link
This was a better abstract look at the agony of being Naomi Watts than <i>Ring: Two</i>, I'll admit.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 23:29 (sixteen years ago) link
billy ray cyrus = toto
― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 23:30 (sixteen years ago) link
that look at her breasteses sure wasn't abstract!
― latebloomer, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 23:31 (sixteen years ago) link
the titty scene was amazing, I've never claimed otherwise
― da croupier, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 23:31 (sixteen years ago) link
i think we can all agree on that one
― chaki, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 23:34 (sixteen years ago) link
David Lynch initially resisted Studio Canal's offer to provide additional funds to complete the TV pilot as a feature film. Lynch's battles with ABC network executives had left him with a negative feeling about the project and the director felt he had run out of ideas for the storyline. When Lynch finally agreed to revisit the film, much to his horror he found that all the sets had been destroyed, and all of the costumes and props had been released by ABC (normally all sets, props and costumes for a possible TV series are carefully cataloged and stored for future use). Lynch claims this setback actually proved a blessing in disguise, however, when it finally generated new ideas about how to proceed with filming, and the director was able to come up with a satisfying conclusion to the story.
...
The theatrical version contains 26 minutes of newly shot and restored footage; the TV version of Mullholand Drive, shot in 1999, originally ran at just over 100 minutes and ended at Betty's apartment after helping Rita cut her hair and put a blond wig on; an additional deleted scene had Betty running out of the apartment to the roof where Rita joined her and both of them looking out over Los Angeles where Betty says "I have arrived" and Rita saying the same. The final shot in the TV pilot version has the mysterious bum sitting in the alley behind Winkie's Restaurant and holding the mysterious blue box. New footage shot for the theatrical version includes:
* The theatrical ending where David Lynch goes back and tells the story of Diane; in the TV pilot, it ends where Rita (Camilla) opens the mysterious blue box. * An additional 6 minutes of expanded 'reshoots' that Studio Canal had David Lynch shoot for the theatrical release.
I always wondered if the tittays were part of said 6 minutes.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 23:39 (sixteen years ago) link
I recall Lynch, on news of the film version, enthusing to one of the female principles "AND THERE'S GOING TO BE NUDITY!"
― sexyDancer, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 23:42 (sixteen years ago) link
http://a255.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/28/l_f066b305ab7e9bcfc5a60af58edee766.jpg
BOO!
― Alex in NYC, Monday, 10 December 2007 02:30 (sixteen years ago) link
D:
― W4LTER, Monday, 10 December 2007 08:06 (sixteen years ago) link
the audtion scene is perhaps one of the greatest pieces of cinema evah.
Tim Finney otm 7 years ago. Stunning. Should have won an Oscar on its own, maybe.
This movie broke my brain. Although a couple of ILX posts have subsequently made most of it make some sort of sense. Most.
Can a mod amend the title so as it's spelt correctly?
Botched killing, audition scene, theatre scene, and a few others = stone classic
― Electric Universe (wherever that is) (acoleuthic), Monday, 4 January 2010 19:26 (fourteen years ago) link
loved the stupid director in that audition scene btw. 'humanistic'! just as you'd imagine a stupid director to be.
― Electric Universe (wherever that is) (acoleuthic), Monday, 4 January 2010 19:28 (fourteen years ago) link
That actor, James Karen, was best known for years in the US as the pitchman for the Pathmark supermarket chain.
― Rage, Resentment, Spleen (Dr Morbius), Monday, 4 January 2010 19:30 (fourteen years ago) link
If and when kenan comes to post in this thread - I just want to remind him not to fuck my mother - that's all.
― sarahel, Monday, 4 January 2010 19:30 (fourteen years ago) link
Which audition scene? The awkward script reading or the magic 50's studio set Camilla Rhodes lip sync (which I've told people before is probably my single favorite scene of any movie of all time)
― Without Curves, I would feel deflated. I like Curves. They are best. (Stevie D), Monday, 4 January 2010 19:51 (fourteen years ago) link
There's a whole raft of amazing bit-part players. I think this is a deliberate ploy. To what extent is this film about the fractal nature of film? The subdivided experience of connected whims? I say this because for the first half at least, the film seems to be a collection of scenes, before it becomes a strangely contiguous albeit difficult whole.
The non-awkward and utterly thrilling script reading, my dear Stevie. "like in the movies"
― Electric Universe (wherever that is) (acoleuthic), Monday, 4 January 2010 19:53 (fourteen years ago) link
The first of those scenes is the transformative one -- I was utterly astonished by it -- cuz Watts shows something that has no way been shown in her character (or in her performance) til that point.
xp
― Rage, Resentment, Spleen (Dr Morbius), Monday, 4 January 2010 19:54 (fourteen years ago) link
(not to mention, she's doing a dry hump w/ CHAD EVERETT)
― Rage, Resentment, Spleen (Dr Morbius), Monday, 4 January 2010 19:55 (fourteen years ago) link
― Rage, Resentment, Spleen (Dr Morbius), Monday, January 4, 2010 2:54 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
^ this
― meryl streep post-brazilian (s1ocki), Monday, 4 January 2010 19:56 (fourteen years ago) link
I didn't work out Diane and Betty were the same person until after the movie ended. I was frantically piecing it together but it didn't quite hit until afterwards. (I thought Diane was that waitress! But that was Naomi Watts too, wasn't it?) I didn't work out that the two women practising the audition wasn't a real scene until halfway through. But on this latter point at least, I think I'm probably quite dense.
That script-reading scene, like a few others but more so, feels like a 'classic Hollywood scene' and was intended to feel so. But it's artificial! It's created in modern-day cynical Hollywood, and it's a facsimile of a scene by definition. BUT it's a classic Hollywood scene, no inverted commas. Plus, yes, she becomes an actress in that scene, and in the process becomes a real human. I think therein lies a key to the movie? Authenticity through pretence? Movies being real?
― Electric Universe (wherever that is) (acoleuthic), Monday, 4 January 2010 19:59 (fourteen years ago) link
movie would've been better with tiny old people running around the entire time
― super sexy psycho fantasy world (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:00 (fourteen years ago) link
this movie had good scenes but struck me as super lazy
― super sexy psycho fantasy world (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:01 (fourteen years ago) link
how
― meryl streep post-brazilian (s1ocki), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:02 (fourteen years ago) link
really? compared to what, Saw VI?
― Rage, Resentment, Spleen (Dr Morbius), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:03 (fourteen years ago) link
at some point dude was just like hay lets put this here, let's make this shit about some box, lets uhhhh, uhhhhhcredits
― super sexy psycho fantasy world (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:05 (fourteen years ago) link
"Sum'n bit me BAD!"
― queen frostine (Eric H.), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:05 (fourteen years ago) link
sspfw, I think you are confusing Lynch w/ the television program "Lost"
― Rage, Resentment, Spleen (Dr Morbius), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:06 (fourteen years ago) link
i think what uhoh is referring to is the difficulty of turning a tv pilot into a cinematic film... i have a dvd copy of the unedited pilot, 80% of which ends up in MD the film. you can tell where lynch had to adapt more to reach more a cinematic arc than keeping it fit for TV.
that said, i think uhoh couldn't be more off the mark that it was lazy filmmaking.
― ┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐ (Steve Shasta), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:08 (fourteen years ago) link
all in all the movie was pretty bold and great but everything felt super rushed, I love lynch btw
― super sexy psycho fantasy world (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:08 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah maybe lazy was too harsh, dude was just working with what he had
― super sexy psycho fantasy world (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:09 (fourteen years ago) link
I'm not gonna retract what I thought about the old people running around all the time tho
― super sexy psycho fantasy world (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:10 (fourteen years ago) link
anyone gonna help me out with my thoughts here or at least call me dumb or w/e...i think it's important i understand how this film relates to film...its combination of trope and innovation surely contains filmic quintessence?
― Electric Universe (wherever that is) (acoleuthic), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:11 (fourteen years ago) link
a combination of trope and innovation
― super sexy psycho fantasy world (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:12 (fourteen years ago) link
OH MY GOD tell us abt the DVD pilot! Are all the scenes in mostly the same order? What sort of direction does it take? What's in the scenes that were removed?
― Without Curves, I would feel deflated. I like Curves. They are best. (Stevie D), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:13 (fourteen years ago) link
― Electric Universe (wherever that is) (acoleuthic), Monday, January 4, 2010 3:11 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
not sure what you're getting at there but the parts of the movie where the film seems to wobble and actually go off the gate could be what you're looking for
― meryl streep post-brazilian (s1ocki), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:15 (fourteen years ago) link
...I'm sorta hitting at the film's insistence on placing genuinely classic scenes within a framework that first isolates them and projects them as classic scenes, before somehow incorporating them within a fractal narrative of repeating movie-ness, which comes to define the projection
― Electric Universe (wherever that is) (acoleuthic), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:18 (fourteen years ago) link
stevie d,check here:http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=mulholland+drive+tv+pilot
i'll try to find a copy online and if not i'll u/l mine.
― ┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐ (Steve Shasta), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:20 (fourteen years ago) link
In my blurb for this I said that few films capture exactly what it feels like to be dumped: the scene in which Naomi Watts makes coffee – where every moment, from spooning coffee to stirring the cup, is weighed equally – is one of the truest depictions of depression I've ever seen.
― Hell is other people. In an ILE film forum. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:26 (fourteen years ago) link
btw there's a bit near the end where the music is incredible - think it's either the bit with andy the director snogging camilla in the car, or the second lesbian love-scene, or both
score throughout is excellent, i gather the dude who wrote it is the dude spitting coffee everywhere, lol
― Electric Universe (wherever that is) (acoleuthic), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:29 (fourteen years ago) link
u know what i love is the opening dance collage scene
that blew me away on 1st viewing
― meryl streep post-brazilian (s1ocki), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:34 (fourteen years ago) link
i ate at "Winky's"
it was a Denny's but now it's Caesar's in Gardena.
― ┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐ (Steve Shasta), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:39 (fourteen years ago) link
love the eyebrow guy at winky's
― sir ilx-a-lot (cutty), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:42 (fourteen years ago) link
who later showed up in mad men and lost. great agent that guy has.
he was also the video store guy in ghost world.
― ┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐ (Steve Shasta), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:42 (fourteen years ago) link
oh yeah!
― plaxico (I know, right?), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:43 (fourteen years ago) link
i'm watching those madmen eps with this guy and he is great in them
― plaxico (I know, right?), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:44 (fourteen years ago) link
his schtick is so weird i don't know how he gets these parts but he's great in them
― plaxico (I know, right?), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:45 (fourteen years ago) link
ya great screen presence
― meryl streep post-brazilian (s1ocki), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:48 (fourteen years ago) link
Attended NYU Tisch School of the Arts, trained at Circle in the Square and graduated in 1992.
Founded and is co-artistic director of the Neurotic Young Urbanites, a Los Angeles theater group created by NYU graduates to give young actors a working environment to continue developing their skills. In addition to appearing in many of their productions, he has co-directed musical productions.
― sir ilx-a-lot (cutty), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:52 (fourteen years ago) link
one of the great that guys of the 2000s imo
― max, Monday, 4 January 2010 20:55 (fourteen years ago) link
funny he made such an impression on me in his short scene in MD that when he showed up in LOST i was like.. THAT GUY
― sir ilx-a-lot (cutty), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:56 (fourteen years ago) link
he little speech in MD is really delivered so amazing. the little smirks, the fear, the cadence...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM2t2wqaOsM
― sir ilx-a-lot (cutty), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:57 (fourteen years ago) link
samwisediggory (3 days ago)best scene in the whole movie, love it.
redandjonny (1 month ago)favorite scene Lynch has ever filmed.
Cmdsouza (1 month ago)Terrible but the movie is interesting.
iAMcooooooool (2 weeks ago)Quite the opposite: the movie is terrible and this is the only interesting part of it.
― sir ilx-a-lot (cutty), Monday, 4 January 2010 20:58 (fourteen years ago) link
Quite the opposite
― max, Monday, 4 January 2010 20:58 (fourteen years ago) link
noted film scholar iAMcoooooooooooooool
― max, Monday, 4 January 2010 20:59 (fourteen years ago) link
what's crazy is that his dad owns Patrick's Roadhouse in Santa Monica and named the restaurant after him 36 years ago!
Also crazy: Patrick's is on the verge of collapse, they were given their 30 day eviction notice last month and things look bleak.
― ┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐ (Steve Shasta), Monday, 4 January 2010 21:02 (fourteen years ago) link
He's fine in that scene, but I didn't remember the eyebrows or that he was in Ghost World.
― Rage, Resentment, Spleen (Dr Morbius), Monday, 4 January 2010 21:03 (fourteen years ago) link
i mean, the food was average and the drinks sucked but it's a huge landmark for folks who spent time between Malibu and SanMo back in the day.
― ┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐ (Steve Shasta), Monday, 4 January 2010 21:03 (fourteen years ago) link
you could definitely say that about him
― meryl streep post-brazilian (s1ocki), Monday, 4 January 2010 21:05 (fourteen years ago) link
o i didn't see the first post.
― meryl streep post-brazilian (s1ocki), Monday, 4 January 2010 21:06 (fourteen years ago) link
also no joke the cowboy + andy scene (well, any andy scene really but this one most so) is stone-dead wonderful. but everything about it is self-knowingly wonderful. it's there AS a classic scene AND an experience-within-film. does this make sense? it's just mannered in such a way that is redolent of 'classic hollywood' (the conversational dynamic, the light), but its placement within the fractal narrative is, while seemingly incidental, essential to the narrative's dare I say kaleidoscopic (meant in the true, mirrored-chaos-becoming-idealism way) nature.
― Electric Universe (wherever that is) (acoleuthic), Monday, 4 January 2010 21:09 (fourteen years ago) link
it's like "the pictures" have come and ganged up on diane's and our consciousnesses - their faraway, hyperreal quality taunts and thrills. film as raison d'etre and executioner
― Electric Universe (wherever that is) (acoleuthic), Monday, 4 January 2010 21:11 (fourteen years ago) link
Jesus is that Rolf from Muppet Babies?
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 4 January 2010 21:11 (fourteen years ago) link
of course the fact this was meant for TV may scupper my pondering
― Electric Universe (wherever that is) (acoleuthic), Monday, 4 January 2010 21:15 (fourteen years ago) link
no i dont think so louis, this is a movie about hollywood and delusion and dreams gone really effing wrong, i think that's a fair read
― meryl streep post-brazilian (s1ocki), Monday, 4 January 2010 21:16 (fourteen years ago) link
in the movie theater while watching this for the first time, the cowboy scene really put a huge smile on my face.
― sir ilx-a-lot (cutty), Monday, 4 January 2010 21:17 (fourteen years ago) link
the cowboy is like john turturro's character in the big lebowski except there's actually a purpose for him to exist, and a genuine mystique created by his slightly ungraspable, oblique hardman wisdom...the spirit of old america, brought to caricature by film, but played for terror rather than comfort
and hey i got no problems with the big lebowski but terror is a way more interesting way to play it...not uncle sam but someone who kills without mercy - the mystique of the cattle drive - what determines a man as alluded to and then spat away by someone who has no time for smartassery - the idea that andy has fucked up on a mortal and profound level, but is allowed to continue directing films...
― Electric Universe (wherever that is) (acoleuthic), Monday, 4 January 2010 21:20 (fourteen years ago) link
To what extent is this film about the fractal nature of film?
i don't know if lynch would use the word fractal, but yeah i think the answer is "to a large extent." i'd say something more vague and holistic like, it's about how movies work -- which encompasses everything from the technical to the diegetic. the way something "real" -- real enough to convey emotion and to affect the viewer -- is constructed out of raw materials all built on artifice and make believe. the two thesis statements are the watts audition scene and the nightclub scene, but a lot of the movie either explicitly or implicitly draws on those ideas.
― hellzapoppa (tipsy mothra), Monday, 4 January 2010 21:25 (fourteen years ago) link
and like i said above LJ - at the points where the movie really seems to rupture, emotionally, the film itself literally breaks and goes off the gate... which kind of sez it all
― meryl streep post-brazilian (s1ocki), Monday, 4 January 2010 21:26 (fourteen years ago) link
the nightclub scene is like a magician's grand reveal - a tear was forming in my eye at exactly the moment the singer falls to the floor - it is timed and shot devastatingly, almost preternaturally well. and i didn't see it coming, but of course when it happens the whole thing is blown wide open and you've been there at the silencio too and you've understood a fundamental truth about cinema which lynch has put better than most
oh is this such a scene? it is isn't it
― Electric Universe (wherever that is) (acoleuthic), Monday, 4 January 2010 21:28 (fourteen years ago) link
(needless to say, when the singer falls, it becomes twice as affecting, for a reason i can't fully pin down, but involves one's relationship to the cinema within one's own life)
― Electric Universe (wherever that is) (acoleuthic), Monday, 4 January 2010 21:29 (fourteen years ago) link
(and needless to say, the PERFORMANCE of the song, aided by the shots of our two leads, is convincingly tearjerking, in the same way that watts' performance with everett is convincingly earth-shattering. and it's NOT smoke and mirrors. at least, it doesn't seem it, even if it is. in this way, the film is miraculous, in that it pulls such performances out when it has to, because the brilliance of those performances lends the film meaning. do we feel them to be more brilliant than they are for this reason? however presmptuous the film is, it pulls it off)
― Electric Universe (wherever that is) (acoleuthic), Monday, 4 January 2010 21:32 (fourteen years ago) link
we need to believe that empathy is real in order to survive
― Fox Force Five Punchline (sexyDancer), Monday, 4 January 2010 21:33 (fourteen years ago) link
we need to believe in roy orbison
― sir ilx-a-lot (cutty), Monday, 4 January 2010 21:40 (fourteen years ago) link
Hey pretty girl - time to wake up
― Home Taping Is Killing Muzak (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Monday, 4 January 2010 21:45 (fourteen years ago) link
i did that when i saw him in Idiocracy!
― The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall, Monday, 4 January 2010 21:52 (fourteen years ago) link
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2090/2117420816_ee98d8467f.jpghttp://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp314/pauly_cy/rolf20muppet.jpg
In muppet babies there is a closet to the door of imagination so maybe this is some weird lynchian shoutout to his muppet homies.
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 4 January 2010 21:55 (fourteen years ago) link
relationship between weird mystic madwoman 'louise' and alley monster: DISCUSS
― Electric Universe (wherever that is) (acoleuthic), Monday, 4 January 2010 21:57 (fourteen years ago) link
in this way, the film is miraculous, in that it pulls such performances out when it has to
otm. if the movie itself wasn't great art, its commentary on the construction of art would just be self-indulgent and even self-defeating -- a mediocre magician giving away tricks he can't actually perform. but because it shows rather than tells (or shows even as it tells), it leaves you with the marvel that i think is lynch's own sort of sense of wonder at how it all works.
― hellzapoppa (tipsy mothra), Monday, 4 January 2010 22:01 (fourteen years ago) link
"it" being the human experience moreso than just cinema
― Fox Force Five Punchline (sexyDancer), Monday, 4 January 2010 22:03 (fourteen years ago) link
aye. cinema as metaphor/workshop for the construction of meaning.
― hellzapoppa (tipsy mothra), Monday, 4 January 2010 22:04 (fourteen years ago) link
:D yeah exactly! exactly what i was thinking, but given breath.
film crit is fun!
― Electric Universe (wherever that is) (acoleuthic), Monday, 4 January 2010 22:06 (fourteen years ago) link
the magician guy saying 'eet eez a tape recorder' could so easily be kitsch and silly but he's actually terrifying, riveting and realistic. again, not sure how lynch does this, or whether we're only too happy to succumb, but it's one of the film's many interventions onto our own consciousness, and it perfects the 'show and tell' thing you describe
― Electric Universe (wherever that is) (acoleuthic), Monday, 4 January 2010 22:12 (fourteen years ago) link
Do you guys believe Lynch when he says he writes all his movies by just meditating and writing down ideas on 3x5 cards when he gets them, then assembling them when he amasses a certain amount?Because it seems inappropriate in that case to ascribe to him the sort of overt/conscious statements such as "cinema as metaphor/workshop for the construction of meaning" rather than "his POV as a filmmaker appears to have shaped his subconscious daydreams"
Is Lynch lying to us about his process?
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 4 January 2010 22:14 (fourteen years ago) link
this ^^^ makes me question how many lynch movies have you seen?
― ┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐ (Steve Shasta), Monday, 4 January 2010 22:15 (fourteen years ago) link
you are lying to yourself about the way meaning is constructed
― meryl streep post-brazilian (s1ocki), Monday, 4 January 2010 22:15 (fourteen years ago) link
i think in all art-making there is a certain extent to which ppl r just winging it and seeing where shit sticks, even in the processes of ppl who seemingly have really refined sensibilities
― plaxico (I know, right?), Monday, 4 January 2010 22:17 (fourteen years ago) link
s1ocki otm
also how is this: Do you guys believe Lynch when he says he writes all his movies by just meditating and writing down ideas on 3x5 cards when he gets them, then assembling them when he amasses a certain amount? really that different from any other creative writing process. "I sit there until I get ideas, then I write them down, and when it feels finished its done" = every writer ever.
― larry craig memorial gloryhole (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 4 January 2010 22:17 (fourteen years ago) link
like, i think relying on the director to validate the explanation is a bit of a dead end on some levels
― plaxico (I know, right?), Monday, 4 January 2010 22:18 (fourteen years ago) link
Lynch is particularly forthcoming about erasing any conscious intent from his approach, which I think distinguishes him from most other films.
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 4 January 2010 22:19 (fourteen years ago) link
He isn't a film
― Home Taping Is Killing Muzak (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Monday, 4 January 2010 22:20 (fourteen years ago) link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentional_fallacy
― meryl streep post-brazilian (s1ocki), Monday, 4 January 2010 22:20 (fourteen years ago) link
You guys are operating on the idea that Lynch's film is particularly an expression of Lynch, right?
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 4 January 2010 22:21 (fourteen years ago) link
― meryl streep post-brazilian (s1ocki), Monday, 4 January 2010 22:22 (fourteen years ago) link
You guys are operating on the idea that Mulholland Drive is really in L.A.?
― Hell is other people. In an ILE film forum. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 4 January 2010 22:23 (fourteen years ago) link
it's an ensemble performance, held on the loosest of leashes by a man whose vision is both mercurial and lissom
― Electric Universe (wherever that is) (acoleuthic), Monday, 4 January 2010 22:24 (fourteen years ago) link
Would you at least agree that he gobbles up his actors and spits out performances in a particularly Lynchian way (Winkie guy's stamina for carrying this weirdness to numerous non-Lynch roles notwithstanding)?
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 4 January 2010 22:41 (fourteen years ago) link
Mostly, but Richard Farnsworth emerges unscathed. The reverse happened; Lynch tapped into the actor's Farnsworthiness.
― Hell is other people. In an ILE film forum. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 4 January 2010 22:47 (fourteen years ago) link
No disrespect to Farnsworth (Anne of Green Gables reprasent!), but isn't that more due to Lynch's not writing the script to that one?
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 4 January 2010 22:57 (fourteen years ago) link
Lara Herring hinted today that there is a sequel in the works.
― ✌.✰|ʘ‿ʘ|✰.✌ (Steve Shasta), Tuesday, 13 April 2010 00:24 (thirteen years ago) link
"I'm very sure it's coming, it's being born," she said. "I cannot really tell you how I know."
http://www.nbcmiami.com/blogs/popcornbiz/Mulholland-Drive-Star-Believes-a-David-Lynch-Follow-Up-Is-Being-Born-90248057.html
― ✌.✰|ʘ‿ʘ|✰.✌ (Steve Shasta), Tuesday, 13 April 2010 00:28 (thirteen years ago) link
^^^ sounds like Lynch dialogue.
― Throwing Muses are reuniting for my next orgasm! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 13 April 2010 00:29 (thirteen years ago) link
We'll see two more sequels if we do bad.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 13 April 2010 00:46 (thirteen years ago) link
Let's hope he uses better digital cameras than on IE.
― Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 13 April 2010 04:30 (thirteen years ago) link
let's hope it's a shot-for-shot remake of The Room
― Mordy, Tuesday, 13 April 2010 04:34 (thirteen years ago) link
well i assume he had some (relatively) long running story arc for these characters
― full government name (cutty), Tuesday, 13 April 2010 13:48 (thirteen years ago) link
that's good news
I'd kill for a TV series
― etrian odysseus (cozen), Tuesday, 13 April 2010 13:52 (thirteen years ago) link
I thought "Rabbits" was the sequel.
― Chris L, Tuesday, 13 April 2010 13:55 (thirteen years ago) link
Britishers: The Observer gave away the DVD free today, and you can follow their liveblog of the film here
― No Good, Scrunty-Looking, Narf Herder (Gukbe), Sunday, 3 October 2010 18:37 (thirteen years ago) link
how quaint
― acoleuthic, Sunday, 3 October 2010 20:08 (thirteen years ago) link
David Lynch will open a Mulholland Drive-themed nightclub in Paris
lol at sophisticated nerve comments.
― i can't, i won't (Ned Trifle II), Thursday, 16 June 2011 21:40 (twelve years ago) link
So long as there's nothing behind the dumpster, I'm okay with this...
― the Sandalled Vandal (dog latin), Friday, 17 June 2011 00:16 (twelve years ago) link
pish idea.
good idea would be make another film.
― jed_, Friday, 17 June 2011 00:30 (twelve years ago) link
I just saw a 35mm print of this and holy shit I never realized how clever and brilliant the sound editing is!!! Also, hearing "Llorando" booming soooooo loudly throughout the half-empty theater within the film and the half-empty theater in which I was watching the film was REALLY REALLY FUCKING INTESNE
― rad het chilly poppers (Stevie D(eux)), Saturday, 18 October 2014 23:59 (nine years ago) link
Like when Weirdo Dude is at Winkie's talking w/ his shrink there is absolutely no background/ambient noise. There is a lot of silence in this film!
― rad het chilly poppers (Stevie D(eux)), Sunday, 19 October 2014 00:00 (nine years ago) link
― queen frostine (Eric H.), Monday, January 4, 2010
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 29 February 2016 23:18 (eight years ago) link
I have to say it just occurred to me the other day how Adam Kesher in MD almost plays the viewer in the sense that he is like totally weirded out by how bizarre his circumstances are, partic w/ the Cowboy; he seems to echo the audience's sentiment of "what the fuck is going on here" when everyone else in the film is kind of acting like it's all normalDoes any other Lynch character sort of break the 4th wall in this regard?― EMA Sumac (Stevie D(eux)), Monday, 22 September 2014 16:25 (two years ago) Permalink
Does any other Lynch character sort of break the 4th wall in this regard?
― EMA Sumac (Stevie D(eux)), Monday, 22 September 2014 16:25 (two years ago) Permalink
wow i have no recollection of writing this but i am impressed w/ past stevie's observation
― Fluffy Saint-Bernard (Stevie D(eux)), Sunday, 26 February 2017 16:13 (seven years ago) link
I think this was p straightforward actually
― brat_stuntin (darraghmac), Sunday, 12 March 2017 22:28 (seven years ago) link
― attention vampire (MatthewK), Sunday, 12 March 2017 22:34 (seven years ago) link
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 13 April 2010 00:46 (six years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
A+
LJ itt is the lj that always annoyed everyone so much
Sorry man but hey at least it took me this long right
― brat_stuntin (darraghmac), Sunday, 12 March 2017 23:34 (seven years ago) link
I just saw a 35mm print of this and holy shit I never realized how clever and brilliant the sound editing is!!!
Yeah, I can't watch Lynch without the sound cranked. How many people have totally missed the monkey whispering 'Judy' in FWWM?
― Milkwalker's World (Old Lunch), Monday, 13 March 2017 01:42 (seven years ago) link
One of my favourite sound editing moments IIRC is prior to the scene where Betty meets her grandparents; A phone rings and the sound delays and lingers until a sublime music cue cuts in. It's hard to explain to do it justice, but it's profoundly moving.
― Carlotta's Portrait (Ross), Monday, 13 March 2017 22:51 (seven years ago) link
I never got that they were her grandparents although I guess that you are right
― Heavy Doors (jed_), Monday, 13 March 2017 23:08 (seven years ago) link
Betty meets her grandparents?
― brat_stuntin (darraghmac), Monday, 13 March 2017 23:08 (seven years ago) link
― Οὖτις, Monday, 13 March 2017 23:11 (seven years ago) link
Fuck I haven't seen this movie in a long time, I'm referring to the scene where she arrives in Los Angeles with the elderly couple. Guess I got confused
― Carlotta's Portrait (Ross), Monday, 13 March 2017 23:22 (seven years ago) link
http://www.mulholland-drive.net/cast/elderly.htm
― Carlotta's Portrait (Ross), Monday, 13 March 2017 23:23 (seven years ago) link
Yes it makes sense that the old couple are her grandparents of the whole first 2/3rds is a fever dream.
― Heavy Doors (jed_), Monday, 13 March 2017 23:33 (seven years ago) link
Diane and Betty are different characters tho
― Οὖτις, Monday, 13 March 2017 23:34 (seven years ago) link
are they though, are they really
― mark s, Monday, 13 March 2017 23:35 (seven years ago) link
Lol
― Οὖτις, Monday, 13 March 2017 23:37 (seven years ago) link
Betty's just Diane's dream self, surely.
― Heavy Doors (jed_), Monday, 13 March 2017 23:37 (seven years ago) link
They're old people there's no suggestion that they exist at all let alone grandparent anybody
― brat_stuntin (darraghmac), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 00:00 (seven years ago) link
xp - i figure they're two sides of the actress archetype, one innocent, the other fallen
― Not raving but drooling (contenderizer), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 00:04 (seven years ago) link
I know that darragh but most people in dreams are real versions of people we think about often.
― Heavy Doors (jed_), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 00:07 (seven years ago) link
Real is a strange word to use there.
there's no suggestion that they exist at all
they obviously exist because they're in a paper bag & then get all huge
― Not raving but drooling (contenderizer), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 00:10 (seven years ago) link
"mulholland drive or avatar
― b'hurt's tauntin' (darraghmac), Wednesday, 30 January 2013 18:21 (four years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink"
In OPO, so what was the worst film you ever saw? thread.
― Heavy Doors (jed_), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 00:46 (seven years ago) link
Betty is the viewer as actor, Diane is the actor as actor. I'm the guy by the dumpster
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 00:56 (seven years ago) link
idg why anyone would assume the grandparent relationship, it doesnt match up w anything they do or say onscreen. Unless one just assumes they're grandparents because of the age difference beteeen them and Diane/Betty. The other theories in Ross's link make more sense imo.
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 01:00 (seven years ago) link
I've come around on lynch btw
― brat_stuntin (darraghmac), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 01:02 (seven years ago) link
I'm sure he's relieved
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 01:30 (seven years ago) link
I thought they just met on the plane because she seems like one of those excruciatingly naive and eager ppl who wd just make friends with other nice ppl on a plane for no reason?
― Fluffy Saint-Bernard (Stevie D(eux)), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 02:00 (seven years ago) link
Also standard lynch trope of nicey-nicey white America feeling horribly creepy and staged
― brat_stuntin (darraghmac), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 02:08 (seven years ago) link
I'm coming over to this grandparents thing.
They didn't meet on the plane because the plane and the old people we see aren't real, they are a fever-dream. So the old people are likely to be people Diane thinks of often.
Now I have that suggested to me it makes little sense that they are just "old people" because they are likely to be people she knows well in her real past.
― Heavy Doors (jed_), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 02:22 (seven years ago) link
But everyone's roles in her fever dream are mixed up - so why would her actual grandparents be sn exception
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 02:24 (seven years ago) link
And why would she be flying on a plane w her grandparents and then ditch them to go stay at her aunt's.
I don't think they're an exception, I just think that people turn up in your dreams that you're close to but not in the relationship you have them in in your daily life.
― Heavy Doors (jed_), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 02:29 (seven years ago) link
While her grandparents are not 100% confirmed, it's a possibility - and comes up in many interpretations of the movie. Another one here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0166924/faq
It's Lynch - I think you can read it either way, his movies are good for that.
― Carlotta's Portrait (Ross), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 02:34 (seven years ago) link
ok in the first 2h of the movie they're she met on the planein ✌️️"real life"✌️️ yeah idk they're prob her grandparents, w/e
― Fluffy Saint-Bernard (Stevie D(eux)), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 03:00 (seven years ago) link
I never bought the dream/real life distinction where this movie is concerned. I think it's about the interaction of Hollywood archetypes, powers & players (first 2/3) and the movie that eventually results (last 1/3).
― Not raving but drooling (contenderizer), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 03:39 (seven years ago) link
i think this movie was about Oliver North
― waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 03:43 (seven years ago) link
you do not
― Not raving but drooling (contenderizer), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 03:44 (seven years ago) link
I never bought the dream/real life distinction where this movie is concerned.
there's literally a part where a character says "time to wake up" and everything is not dreamy anymore
― kurt schwitterz, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 17:49 (seven years ago) link
yeah, but see above
― Not raving but drooling (contenderizer), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 17:53 (seven years ago) link
not dreamy, still boring
― mark s, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 17:53 (seven years ago) link
i shouldn't say i reject the fantasy/dream vs. ugly reality interpretation. that story's obviously present & central. i don't think it's sufficient, and it bothers me that it's treated as the film's one and only meaning.
― Not raving but drooling (contenderizer), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 17:58 (seven years ago) link
It kinda bothers me that it fits the film so well, though. I've come to prefer Inland Empire, which is much more open to multiple satisfying interpretations, imo.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 18:46 (seven years ago) link
still the most coherent thing I've read about tit: http://www.salon.com/2001/10/24/mulholland_drive_analysis/
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 18:54 (seven years ago) link
obv it doesn't matter if The Parts Don't Fit Together considering the movie comprises connective material fleshing out a scrapped TV pilot.
mulholland drive is good, fuck the haters
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 20:07 (seven years ago) link
Lost Highway is finally available to rent on Amazon instant video. I've been wanting to watch that movie for years, but it's never been available on streaming.
― how's life, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 21:41 (seven years ago) link
prepare to be disappointed
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 21:44 (seven years ago) link
I really like it, but it has its flaws like any Lynch film.
― Moodles, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 21:48 (seven years ago) link
It's near the bottom of the pile for me, just above Wild At Heart.
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 21:50 (seven years ago) link
OTM Οὖτις, Lost Highway is the Lynch film that is guilty of everything idiots think all Lynch films are guilty of.
― lilcraigyboi (Craigo Boingo), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 14:05 (seven years ago) link
Lost Highway does a surprisingly good job of capturing the mood and tone of the 90s, for a work from a director that makes films that seem detached from any specific time period
― mh 😏, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 14:06 (seven years ago) link
went on a first date to lost highway when it was out in theaters, biiiiiiiiiiiig mistake
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 14:07 (seven years ago) link
LH doesn't surpass its promising opening credits or Bill Pullman playing furious sax in that club. The rest is self-parody, down to Robert Blake in Dean Stockwell makeup.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 14:08 (seven years ago) link
stick with meshes of the afternoon, only 18 mins long -- it didn't need remaking
― mark s, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 14:13 (seven years ago) link
I can't argue either of those points. I, too, thought "wow, fake Dean Stockwell!" the last time I saw it. xp
― mh 😏, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 14:14 (seven years ago) link
Watched the remaster on the big screen last night for the first time since release and the film really benefits from it. Hard to see what the new print actually adds - there's a far greater distinction between the film quality in daylight/studio and low light (particularly the car driving around), but some scenes look like they were broadcast on TV, never mind filmed for it.
I hadn't paid attention before to Betty explicitly revealing the plot three times in the first phase. I've forgotten the third one but when she enters Ruth's apartment for the first time she says to Coco "It's like some kind of dream" and then when she and Rita go to phone the police about the car accident she says "We can do it. We can pretend we're other people."
Diane sees The Cowboy two times. According to his conversation with Adam, this potentially means she's "done bad".
― Mud... Jam... Failure... (aldo), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 14:04 (six years ago) link
ya not to mention her crawling into bed and falling asleep being one of the first shots of the movie
seeing this in a theater made me realize how incredible the sound editing is, so much skillful silence
― he not like the banana (Stevie D(eux)), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 14:08 (six years ago) link
These are pretty much the exact arguments re: the first 30 minutes of FWWM being Cooper's 'dream' (scare quotes because I don't think Lynch's use of dreams is straightforward enough to refer to instances like these as 'just a dream').
― human/hutt hybrid (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 14:16 (six years ago) link
This is far and a way my favorite Lynch film. It's his funniest, most suspenseful, most affectionate, most purely entertaining movie—every scene is just a joy, even the ones that barely connect to the other ones. I remember wanting to clap when I first saw it in theaters and the cowboy instructed us to count how many times we saw him. So fun.
Very much enjoying the new TP season because it feels structurally similar. Just a succession of disconnected scenes that are so good on their own I don't even care how they all fit together.
― Evan R, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 15:27 (six years ago) link
Saw it in a theater a couple weeks ago and I was blown away. Last saw it in 2007 right before Inland Empire. So much better than I remember.
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 15:31 (six years ago) link
I don't want to jinx it somehow, but yeah, new TP is closer to Mulholland Drive as a reference point than nearly anything else
― mh, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 15:34 (six years ago) link
yeah, and since the disconnected scenes end up sorta making sense in retrospect, it rewards close and repeated viewings - i think that'll be the case with the new TP as well
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 15:34 (six years ago) link
glad i rewatched this right before the new twin peaks, it prepared me for the mood way more than fwwm did. incredible film incidentally
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 15:35 (six years ago) link
i watched inland empire again a few weeks ago and had the same feeling. MD+IE+Eraserhead+his early short films seem like the biggest influences on new twin peaks. oh yeah, and old twin peaks too obv :)
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 15:38 (six years ago) link
Yeah I think that's part of why Mulholland Drive has aged so well. The more you watch it the more it makes sense, but it'll never make complete sense. Even when you think you've cracked its logic, it still seems kinda scrambled. There are still pieces that don't fit. And there's something addictive about that sense that order is always just out of reach.
The original Twin Peaks had that, too, a fairly linear structure and interpretation with some untidy ends to keep you guessing, but Mulholland Drive and the new Twin Peaks are packed so much denser. There's a lot more to chew on.
Lost Highway and IE made it too easy to dismiss certain scenes as "oh he's just being weird," but Mulholland Drive and the new Twin Peaks deny you that shortcut.
― Evan R, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 15:43 (six years ago) link
IE is too long and my memory too short to get into into specific scenes, but i think a lot of the parts that people dismiss as lynch being a weirdo could conceivably have something to do with the plot. i read a really, really long analysis/theory of IE once (published in the classic 1998 internet style) that covered everything in exhaustive detail.
i need to watch lost highway again soon, it's been too long!
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 15:50 (six years ago) link
but yeah, i get your point about IE making it really easy to make those dismissals, which is too bad. lynch almost seems to be begging people to be confused at certain parts of it, whereas MD kind of dangles the mystery just out of reach at all times.
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 15:51 (six years ago) link
I haven't seen Lost Highway recently enough to defend it, but Inland Empire is less oblique than Mulholland Drive imo.
― human/hutt hybrid (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 15:51 (six years ago) link
Wild at Heart is the one I'd call out for being intentionally obtuse and weird for its own sake. I already kinda felt that way but the deleted and extended scenes in the Lime Green set (which made clear the extent to which Lynch intentionally edited a lot of clarity out of the film) cemented that notion.
― human/hutt hybrid (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 15:54 (six years ago) link
xxp Yeah, exactly. To be sure, I don't doubt that each scene in IE had meaning and significance. But a general interpretation was so far out of reach on that one that the message became "don't even bother." That movie loses the audience before it even earns one.
But you compare that to Mulholland Drive, which immediately draws you into mysteries... car crashes, amnesia, movie casting intrigue, romance... there was so much to cling to there, your mind is engaged the whole time. By the time the twist hits in the final act you're too vested in the movie to just throw your hands up
xp Old Lunch that is the most contrarian thing I have read online in a while. You really think so?
― Evan R, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 15:55 (six years ago) link
Maybe he does that more often than I realize (thinking just now of the scene in the Missing Pieces that makes Laura's 'I am the muffin' line in FWWM just a little less out of left field).
― human/hutt hybrid (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 15:56 (six years ago) link
WaH is his worst film
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 15:57 (six years ago) link
― Evan R, Tuesday, May 23, 2017 10:55 AM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Which, about IE being more straightforward than MD? If so, then yeah. I was able to shake out the general thrust of IE's 'narrative' after seeing it twice. MD took a few more viewings.
― human/hutt hybrid (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 15:58 (six years ago) link
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, May 23, 2017 10:57 AM (forty-nine seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
100% agreed. I think I even prefer Dune.
Gifford was a poor choice of collaborators
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 15:59 (six years ago) link
xp yes
― insidious assymetrical weapons (Eric H.), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 15:59 (six years ago) link
Mulholland Drive is a movie about a jaded, struggling actress who takes out a hit on her ex-girlfriend then finds a happy fantasy land where everything is magical just after she kills herself.
Inland Empire is a movie about... honestly I have no idea. Like, literally no idea.
― Evan R, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 16:01 (six years ago) link
It's about what happens to brilliant actresses who have career making roles in movies like Mulholland Drive and then no one wants them anymore
― insidious assymetrical weapons (Eric H.), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 16:02 (six years ago) link
I mean, I guess reduced to a logline (Modern-day actress must take on the role and retrace the journey of a dead actress in order to set her soul free!), IE is a little more high-concept than MD but its presentation is more straightforward.
― human/hutt hybrid (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 16:06 (six years ago) link
Inland Empire is a movie about the cursed production of a film. the modern film is a remake of another film that was attempted many years ago and left unfinished. the act of at of the modern production opens some sort of portal that connects the timelines.
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 16:21 (six years ago) link
i'm sure when he explained this to the financiers it was like that one scene in MD!
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 16:22 (six years ago) link
the act of at of the modern production opens some sort of portal that connects the timelines.
word barf, by me, zs
i just meant that when they go about filming the remake it awakens the curse and the timelines connect
i don't actually know that it's a curse, but the point is that bad things happened during the old filming, and now bad things are happening again
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 16:23 (six years ago) link
yeah I would think that's fairly straightforward...? there are of course a number of scenes that don't seem to connect but whatever
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 16:27 (six years ago) link
i'll stop talking about IE on the MD thread but i think it's a really really rewarding movie to watch multiple times, especially within a few weeks of each other when you can remember the details and see things near the beginning of the movie the second time around that you would not have took notice of before. but since it's 3 hours long and incredibly scary and bleak for so many of those minutes, it's bound to be unseen. it's a bit challopsy but it's my favorite thing by DL
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 16:27 (six years ago) link
I don't think that op is at all chall. MD, IE, and Eraserhead all vie for first with me depending on my mood.
― human/hutt hybrid (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 16:47 (six years ago) link
(And The Grandmother.)
― human/hutt hybrid (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 16:48 (six years ago) link
now THAT is challopsy, although the grandmother is definitely the best of his early work. :)
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 16:51 (six years ago) link
i live about a five minute walk from the Mulholland Drive cottage apartments. no rotting corpses on the premises as far as i know.
http://www.seeing-stars.com/Images/ScenesFromMovies/MulhollandDrive4.jpg
― nomar, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 16:53 (six years ago) link
just seeing that pic creeps me out
― licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Thursday, 1 June 2017 08:02 (six years ago) link
the sound design & mixing in MD is incredible... that distorted jet engine sound that comes in right when Betty and the oldies pop up out of focus and overexposed in front of the jitterbug dance...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MLMLvSqT6g
― flappy bird, Saturday, 22 July 2017 06:36 (six years ago) link