Let us anticipate Greta Gerwig's directorial debut "Lady Bird"

http://www.trbimg.com/img-59ac295b/turbine/la-et-mn-greta-gerwig-lady-bird-telluride-20170903

On the evidence, she had more to do with Frances Ha and Mistress America than Baumbach. Many times it's sharp and in a few moments extraordinary. I can't say enough about Saoirse Ronan. A gallery of fine supporting work: Laurie Metcalf, Lois Smith, Timothée Chalamet, Lucas Hedges, Beanie Feldstein. Smart editing and use of elision.

The ending was too sentimental and movie-facile, though, but in my group I was in the majority.

nice, im in

yes, i'm eager to see it tho Frances Ha > Mistress America

Nothing would make me happier than for Laurie Metcalf to be great in this.

she is!

in my group I was in the majority.

minority obv

smart of Gerwig to pick a lead actress with charisma and acting chops, considering in Frances Ha she was missing both (not seen her in anything else, and no major desire to).

gerwig is great

greta

stupid phone

make greta gerwig again

Other big news in the top ten is found in tenth position where A24's Lady Bird delivered an incredible $1.25 million from just 37 theaters for an impressive $33,766 per theater average. A24 is reporting sell outs in many markets this weekend as the Greta Gerwig-directed feature will expand into top markets again this coming weekend leading into a nationwide break over Thanksgiving.

Sold out solidly in my town.

And, yes, solidly Team Metcalf.

yes, i'm eager to see it tho Frances Ha > Mistress America

^^^

I thought this was really charming and funny, with beautiful performances that amounted to a lot more than just a series of quirks. Laurie Metcalf was particularly great. I loved how the film made sure to define her as her own person, not just a hectoring mother to a teen she doesn't understand. As for Lady Bird herself, she's an obvious director surrogate in a very autobiographical story, but it's amazing how much more I can stand the typical Gerwig character when she's an actual teenager, not an emotionally-stunted adult.

I thought this was very sweet.

this has gotten even better in my mind since watching it

The depth of empathy for everyone on screen is worthy of comparisons to Renoir

This also very much reinforced my belief that friendships between women are the best thing to make movies about.

I know comparing with Renoir risk overselling it, but I calls 'em as I feels 'em.

waiting for you to label Call Me by Your Name Ivory-esque

Ang Lee-esque maybe

I haven't read much Oscar buzz about Ronan but, boy, does she deserve it.

Really? I've seen her on the bulk of lists.

Of course, I've also seen Emma Stone on most of those same lists.

haven't seen this yet but really want to. gerwig was on fresh air this morning, she's funny (in a weird funny way like half the people she plays; like, she wanted to be a competitive fencer and that's why she went to catholic high school, because they'd accommodate her travel schedule). does she have a flat, affectless manner when she speaks? yes but for some reason it's worked in everything I've seen her in.

also even though yes I haven't even seen the movie, they played one bit of dialogue from this and though there was nothing amazing about it, just listening to the delivery of it made me cry in the car.

Man, the part at the end where Terry asks her about Woody Allen (allegations) was pretty weird and awkward. She basically talks about how she refuses to talk about it because she doesn't want to say the wrong thing and have it affect her career, which is real, but in a way, this seems like the worst thing she could say?

No that’s not the worst thing she could say

Well yeah

o this was so great

this movie was so charming

The depth of empathy for everyone on screen is worthy of comparisons to Renoir

― Anne of the Thousand Gays (Eric H.), Tuesday, November 14, 2017 9:15 AM (five days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

extremely down with this comparison

This movie was very sweet. It grew on me more and more as it went on.

Loved this so, so much. The matinee I saw was completely sold out. I loathed Frances Ha and Mistress America, just awful, so I went in somewhat skeptical, but was relieved that none of the whimsy or boring sensibility of Baumbach/Anderson/Allen rubbed off on Gerwig. She really delivered on "a female counterpoint to tales like The 400 Blows and Boyhood." No mixtape swapping, no scenes of teens sitting around a stereo talking about how cool this or that band is, not exaggeration of taste. Lady Bird liked Alanis Morisette - in 2002! So refreshing. Finally a coming of age story about real people with complex relationships. Moments of real pathos: Danny breaking down and falling into Lady Bird's arms as he cries that he's terrified of telling his mom that he's gay, begging her not to tell anyone - you could hear a fucking pin drop in that packed theater. It was really stunning. It's not particularly innovative and yeah the ending is predictable, but so what? Sometimes a nice piece of cake just needs to be that. I can't stress what a welcome relief this movie is from garbage like 20th Century Women or Moonrise Kingdom - more female counterpoints to that shit immediately, please! Saoirse Ronan fantastic obviously, along with everyone else. Gerwig knocked it out of the park.

Damn even Armond White liked this

I loathed Frances Ha and Mistress America, just awful,

oh come on

I love your response otherwise though!

garbage like 20th Century Women

wait wtf

I'm not a fan but I can understand what (lots and lots) of my filmcrit friends saw in it.

flappy - 20th century women rules....eh?

The depth of empathy for everyone on screen is worthy of comparisons to Renoir

Yes, good observation and a rare and refreshing virtue

Although the empathy may not have extended to bf #2

I recognized enough of myself and/or my friends at that age (i.e. the barter gag) that I extended it.

Chalamet is resourceful enough an actor (and Gerwig gives him the space) to remind us why we found selfish dicks hot as fuck.

Saw this tonight. I liked the last third better than the first hour--which is good, I'd rather have a film end strong. Favourite two things were the scene where Lois Smith suggested love = attention, and also Lady Bird's voiceover about driving around Sacramento (and the matching shots of her and her mom behind the wheel). I'm always moved by scenes where someone gets an acceptance letter in the mail for university--think I could name a half-dozen other good ones. And proms, I guess because I didn't go my own. I kind of wish Laurie Metcalf hadn't been given a milder version of the Mary Tyler Moore role from Ordinary People. She's just so funny on Roseanne; I missed that.

I'm always moved by scenes where someone gets an acceptance letter in the mail for university

With me it's scenes involving parents and kids entering college saying their goodbyes. This one offered a bittersweet and no less wrenching variation.

They're great too, and Lady Bird's wasn't like anything I'd ever seen. Sort of reminded me of Sarris writing about Notorious, how the camera settles on the villain rather than the two principals--not that Laurie Metcalf's the villain, but following her in and out of the airport was unusual and really nice.

the trailer makes this look like some rote indie h**ster film. i take it that the trailer is just rotten then?

The movie is a lot better than the trailer led me to expect

I loathed Frances Ha and Mistress America, just awful,

oh come on

― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)

I love your response otherwise though!

― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)

garbage like 20th Century Women

wait wtf

― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson)

I'm not a fan but I can understand what (lots and lots) of my filmcrit friends saw in it.

― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)

flappy - 20th century women rules....eh?

― Week of Wonders (Ross)

Haven't seen Frances Ha since it came out 5 years ago but I really hated it, the world doesn't need another second of Woody Allen cosplay. It came out around the same time Girls premiered on HBO and I was just completely fed up with struggling artists (?) in love letters to NYC. Mistress America is fresh in my mind, I remember that one being just so weightless and full of noxious whimsy and silliness, as if Baumbach was trying to outdo the worst of Wes Anderson. I rewatched Greenberg tonight after making my initial post and seeing the responses, and it's even better than I remember. Brilliant movie. The Greenberg character is incredible, such a beautiful excoriation of a certain type of meek hipster that is all too often exalted and excused for in movies, culture, and society. The scene when he's doing coke with the millennials and he's going off about how he's better than them because they're "so sincere, and confident, and you don't have any hangups, and you listen to older, smart people...like me." The movie is such a fantastic dark satire, totally absurd at times, and I really despised Frances Ha & Mistress America because it was as if Baumbach embraced the sensibility of the effigy that he completely torched in his last movie.

20th Century Women... this is what I wrote at the time:

Mike Mills makes the same mistake here, presenting one-dimensional archetypes instead of the real people he claims to pay homage to. Some autobiography. 20th Century Women is slotted with scarecrows: the neurotic teenage boy who’s obviously a stand-in for the director (Lucas Jade Zumann); the slightly older girl that the director always wanted to fuck but got emotionally toyed with instead (Elle Fanning); the boy’s eccentric and often embarrassing free spirit of a mother (Annette Bening); and the new wave art girl who lived on the Lower East Side in the mid-1970s and moved back home, whose sole purpose is to give us reason to believe any of these people would be listening to Suicide and The Talking Heads or wearing Lou Reed and Devo t-shirts (that would be Greta Gerwig).

Do we really need another poignant scene of parents freaking out over Black Flag? Pick your generation and band of choice—20th Century Women is pure nostalgia porn, an exercise that should’ve been carried out in private, for much less money.

also 20th Century Women was so obviously written by a dude from a dude's perspective. I found the whole conceit at best a complete failure, at worst really disingenuous.

I wouldn't say they freaked out over Black Flag; they were bemused.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up0pJ4Otvkk

The trailer isn’t very indicative of the movie, but I did love it’s use of the Monkees’ “As We Go Along.”

after the third-or-so appearance of "Crash" by DMB I was about to cry uncle

(that was my point of empathy with Kyle/bf2)

I agree with the Facebook clickbait article about how more characters in movies should have bad taste in music.

Or, rather, fewer should flaunt their directors' ostensibly amazing taste in music.

Dunno about "Facebook clickbait," but I assume you're talking about this Steven Hyden piece? http://uproxx.com/movies/lady-bird-dave-matthews-band-in-defense-of-fictional-uncool-music-taste/

I was being a little glib. I agree with the sentiment.

here's my thinkpiece: I Loved This Movie But "Crash into Me" Has Been Stuck in My Head for Almost 24 Hours

It’s one thing, for instance, to make Margot a Rolling Stones fan in The Royal Tenenbaums, but isn’t it a little much that she plays “She Smiles Sweetly,” a largely unknown cut from 1967’s Between The Buttons, on a frickin’ record player?

this is p dumb imo (oh big surprise from a st*ve hyd*n piece)

I haven't seen this yet (or read the Hyden thing, lol) but I broadly agree with the sentiment that many filmmakers err on the side of hipness instead of what's "in character" / setting-appropriate

In 2001 it might have been a little much (the record player portion, that is).

Anderson is kind of immune from this criticism since his movies are generally not populated with humans

and even if they were they wouldn't have heard R&B.

but Royal Tenenbaums isn't grounded in reality in the same way that Perks of Being a Wallflower or 20th Century Women are. criticizing the turntable and the obscure Stones track is like criticizing the tent that Richie lives in. fwiw Royal Tenenbaums is the only Wes Anderson movie I really love, because the balance of whimsy and real people is just right.

taking sides: bikini kill poster in bedroom vs. cd wallet full of greatest hits collections

fwiw Royal Tenenbaums is the only Wes Anderson movie I really love, because the balance of whimsy and real people is just right

On the contrary, this is the one where it first started to feel out of whack.

I guess no one has pointed out that the thread title is not exactly accurate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nights_and_Weekends

taking sides: bikini kill poster in bedroom vs. cd wallet full of greatest hits collections

― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, November 20, 2017 2:51 PM (thirty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Sleater-Kinney poster too! So this movie did kinda violate the look-i'm-hip rule, and leaves us a little confused as to Lady Bird's tastes. (she also like Kyle's band and tbh I was digging the first song..)

I saw those posters and they seemed legit to me. Dig me out and bikini kill's singles cd were common and cheap in 2001-2003. I think they were about $11 new around that time? and signaling ostensible hipness isn't incompatible with being unwilling to disparage ... dmb, Alanis, or other uncool middle school loves. if anything, I think it says something about lady bird's stubbornness and confidence.

lots of teenagers had patchwork, magpie taste. the band really fit, too! they sounded way more like that anodyne-but -intricate late-90s/early-00s emo than anything contemporary. you have even less agency over what local bands you happen to see and like than cds you buy/steal/get for Christmas.

call it friend rock, boyfriend rock, classmate rock, older sibling rock...

^^^ i actually agree with this, and i think it's what i was trying to say with that (sorta glib) taking sides post

i hella listened to dave matthews band and sonic youth in high school

wasn't there an uncool cd rehabilitation scene in that recent Jenny slate movie? I like how these scenes give context and character to a song that might not have positive associations from your own life when it was on the radio. like I have fond memories lying on the carpet hearing pm dawn, but I felt I was seeking agency and authenticity when "crash" was popular and the song felt incompatible with that.

if she'd had Dig Me Out and No Fences and the Bikini Kill comp and Under the Table and Dreaming in her CD wallet, then the NYC music snob would have called her tastes "eclectic" xp

i can't fathom how this movie was rated R.

if a movie has any hint of homosexuality, it's no longer even PG-13.

the word "cunt" was said twice.

that's all I got

if i were willing to valorize dave matthews, i'd expect the ratings board to give me blanket immunity.

shoulda been listenin to Mary J Blige's "Family Affair"

semitumescent penis guys

it's rated R?????? wtf

I didn't notice the posters! Even if it is signaling taste, it's realistic & makes sense to me (Sleater-Kinney toured with Pearl Jam in the early 00s, anyone that liked Nirvana and did the most elementary research the name Bikini Kill would come up, cf. the origin of the title "Smells Like Teen Spirit"). More importantly, posters in the background =/= long scenes devoted to discussing cool music. bamcquern otm re: the boy's band

yeah I don't really know why it was Rated R. We took my 11 1/2 year old because my wife didn't want to leave him home alone and we didn't want to pay for a sitter. It was fine, he already knows about sex and just kind of hid his face in the one half-graphic scene, which really wans't any more graphic that what you see on network TV these days.

I loved this film. I grew up in Sacramento, to a point (moved when I was 8 1/2 in 1981, so quite a bit earlier) and retain some kind of nostalgia for it which this movie kind of vindicated, though it's a pretty glorified image of it, the city is certainly shit in lots of ways. I loved that they were excited for the State Fair and the log ride which was also my favorite thing when I was a kid.

this is one of the better coming of age movies I've ever seen; she very realistically straddles that stubborn awful teenage willfullness with something more mature; and I like that in the end, personally, I believe she's right; she did need to move out of Sacramento.

saw it cold, loved it, recommend it.

liked it also, yes v good re coming of age

lady bird as a character reminded some of anna pacquins character in margaret

gotta say too that the save a horse ride a cowboy tshirts @ that western party (?) made me immed think of ilx/ilm

ha me too, although I remember Big & Rich as a late '03 phenomenon.

It just hit trope after trope: gay boyfriend in theatre; prettier girl ignores the kind fat best friend until a lesson is learned.

And then the worst one: NYC as savior (mixed in with some remembrance for the old country).

As my friend said while the credits rolled: ‘doesn’t the next one start just about now?’

Sarosie Ronan is unbelievable, but I don’t get the praise

Do you not like tropes

And then the worst one: NYC as savior

huh. did you watch this movie

yeah it was super tropey but sorta in the way of like, hey, if you're gonna do a tropey high school movie, I'm throwing down the gauntlet: do it at LEAST this well, or don't bother. the script was so good and sharp and funny and well-observed even when the situations were seen-it-a-million-times. the fury road of senior-year movies.

new york is not pitched as a savior tho - she has the same baggage there, is encountering the same dumbass dudes, and is making some of the same mistakes even. SHE goes there thinking it's the marvelous land of oz and it genuinely means a lot to her to be leaving home, but the movie gives us plenty of space to not buy into that... indeed to realize she'll grow up to be someone who can look back on this as a fairly dopey wide-eyed move that put a lot of pressure on her parents' finances and that sacramento isn't all bad (etc etc). but that it all turns out right in the end.

only thing that bugs me is the handling of her name in the very last scene. might have come off differently to me ten or five years ago, but in 2017 it felt weirdly situated re: trans identity and now it feels like a movie i should not recommend to friends blindly.

Well, Lady Bird isn't exactly sympathetic to her closeted boyfriend's situation until the moment he collapses in her arms. So woke she ain't.

No one was. Period piece.

it was tropey but it did things that pretty in pink brought up, and did them right (it's no accident that both the dresses she picks are pink). for instance: the probably gay friend turns out to be actually gay here. And, she sides with some real friends in the end, rather than going with the douche.

"only thing that bugs me is the handling of her name in the very last scene. might have come off differently to me ten or five years ago, but in 2017 it felt weirdly situated re: trans identity and now it feels like a movie i should not recommend to friends blindly." Huh, I'm not reading you.

we're supposed to find it touching and powerful that she sheds her chosen name for the "good name" her parents gave her. feel like for a lot of people, that will be a super unpleasant moment that throws them out of the movie.

it may but hopefully they can see outside their own selves enough that its real & works for this character, perspective of distance from her parents illuminating how they did the best they could &c &c

maybe? i dunno? just saying that it makes me feel like i'd be being a dick to tell all my friends oh man you will LOVE this movie, it gets everything right!

I've never felt that way.

Likewise.

I love many movies that get many things wrong.

re: "wrong," maybe playing with fire here, but if the ending of this movie is enough to give you pause, what entertainments out there do you regard as safe?

jeez y'all. i'm just saying that the trans/NB people in my life are very sensitive to narratives about given vs chosen names and it just played really weird, to me, to have it be played as a happy-ending payoff that a character who's earlier articulated a pretty groovy claim on her name ("I gave it to myself") later is like oh nah forget it. and it's fine for her to be oh nah forget it! but we're supposed to feel big feelings that she does, and *that* felt weird to me.

but tbf it's early and I'm still working on my coffee so I might not be doing the best job expressing this

And I might be doing my best job resisting it.

gotta say too that the save a horse ride a cowboy tshirts @ that western party (?) made me immed think of ilx/ilm

― johnny crunch, Tuesday, November 21, 2017 7:58 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ha me too, although I remember Big & Rich as a late '03 phenomenon.

― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, November 21, 2017 8:02 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol yes i figured it was an anachronism (the single and the album it was on both came out in spring 2004)--but then wondered whether "save a horse, ride a cowboy" was just a phrase that people said before big & rich made a song out of it?

pretty sure it was? but when i try to remember i just hear the song in my head.

i was pretty surprised they were allowed to wear shirts that said that to a dance at a catholic school

as a nonbinary person who has often considered changing their name, doc casino’s point honestly never occurred to me as i was watching it. huh

huh, fair enough - I'll def trust your perspective on this more than my second-guessing of my own!

i mean i actually find what you’re saying really interesting, even as my experience of the film was more along the lines of what johnny crunch said

Loved it. Loved how so many minor characters (the two play directors) could be drawn so sharply in a scene or two.

It's like the Veep style turned into something other than mean comedy, as far as efficiency and detail.

^^ Left-field comparison, I know, but this thing moved without being farce.

oh yeah lmao the football coach subbing for the theater director was hilarious

football coach was hilarious if a cartoon. but a good cartoon of how a precocious high schooler sees a coach. like something from daria. i hope high schoolers are seeing this movie! i hope it replaces those john hughes movies or whatever else are considered standards of the genre.

but the first director was incredible. i never did theater so maybe those are all stock scenes that every high school theater kid would know but i thought they were really beautifully done. loved how all the teachers in this, even coach, felt like they really liked kids and wanted to see them happy/successful, even if they have their flaws and limits. they weren't as fleshed out as the other adults, sure, and a high schooler watching will probably see them overwhelmingly in terms of what they mean to the leads (e.g. math teacher crush guy is sth we can all relate to via julia: oh nooooo he has a wife and she's pregnant even!). but the actor plays it like he's playing a real person so if the same kid watches it a few years later maybe there's something else they can appreciate there.

Was there any explanation as to what the first director was going through--why he was seeing Laurie Metcalf? I assumed it was general depression, but maybe I missed something.

Son died, maybe suicide?

That scene was so amazing in rounding out Laurie Metcalf's character, too -- seeing her on the job as a true caretaker.

yeah, i loved that. it seemed like all the other people in town had a very different perception of lady bird's mom--they got to see a warm, caring, and even funny side of her that she wouldn't allow lady bird to see, just shown in short scenes with the father and with her co-workers

the theatre nerd in me loved that they did Merrily, We Roll Along...and committed to showing it!

Between Sondheim and "Crash" and "You Oughta Know" and "Cry Me A River," the music rights must've been a big line item.

And "Tha Crossroads!" A great, great, pick - years out of date but weirdly plausible to me as a slow-dance song at a religious school in 2002.

lol yeah, it's got a nice religious message and it would pass the nuns' rigid censorship

https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/vulture/2017/11/21/greta/21-greta-gerwig-letter-music-2.nocrop.w710.h2147483647.jpg

That's sweet. I wrote a letter just like that to the Angry Samoans when I was making student films.

seein it tonight

My review.

V sweetly written up Alfred :)

yes. this is great and v on-point with how i remember the later stretches of high school: "both outcasts who use wit not so much as a rapier against the popular kids at their Catholic high school but as an end in itself because rapiers are cool."

i remember the uncle conversation differently though - doesn't lady bird just say "he's not your uncle," and julie responds, "it's something I'm trying out"? as in, she's trying out calling him that?

thanks!

@ Doc Casino: I saw at least one trans writer on Twitter pick up on the same thing you mentioned w/r/t the ending

beautiful review, Alfred

i found this perfectly cozy and lovely world to inhabit for a couple hours. can't wait for her next flick, but also, i hope she keeps acting or casts herself

Just saw it a second time; being prepared for the jokes made me be present enough to notice how sad I felt about many of the laugh lines

I hope she and Noah Baumbach stay together because I’m romantic but I would think/hope she’s got no further need for him as far as making movies

thanks, y'all

"being prepared for the jokes made me be present enough to notice how sad I felt about many of the laugh lines"

maybe I said this up above but when i heard the "why don't you like me" scene on the radio before I saw th emovie it made me cry. It didn't seem as sad in a theater full of people who were laughing at other parts; but I think removed from an audience I'd feel the same way again

This is another one of those films that I suspect earns very different reactions and elicits different emotions depending on whether you are viewing it as a parent vs. viewing it as a child. Perhaps gender makes a big difference, too. For example, my wife watched it as a perfect encapsulation of what it was like a be a young woman at more or less that exact age/time, and of course I can't ever fully appreciate that perspective. But I could understand what it was like to have a fraught relationship with a parent (as everyone can) and yet also now, as a parent of a freshly minted teen, what it is like to have a complex relationship with your kid. Though as a father, not as a mother, which is, again, a distinction and dynamic worth noting in this particular story.

The senior citizen crowd I saw it with really dug the Didion quote at the beginning.

lol same with my crowd!

i loved the dad in this. his gruff laugh when the mother asks 'you think miguel and diana have sex on the pull-out couch?' 'oh yeah'

Tracy Letts was really good as the dad in this (mind you, the character's so likeable contrasted with Laurie Metcalf, maybe not the most difficult role). Thought I knew him well from somewhere else, but the only possibilities are Weiner-Dog and The Big Short, and I don't think it's either of those. So it must be..."Counterguy" in the Seinfeld where Kramer goes back to work at the bagel place.

no he is in Wiener-Dog. also was in a really shitty movie this year called The Lovers

I know he's in it--I was going by IMDB--I'm just saying I have no strong association between him and the film. All I really remember is Danny DeVito and Ellen Burstyn, and had to double-check about Burstyn.

yea hes the asshole dad in the beginning. hes also the asshole dad in The Lovers. I was actually really surprised by his character in Lady Bird, he even looked different- much warmer & understanding guy

I watched this movie in Sacramento!! :)

how did the crowd like it

It was showing at the mall so the crowd was pretty normcore. They seemed to like it but were somewhat muted. There were the predictable oohs and ahhs when various local landmarks showed up. My aunt hated the editing.

I did too. Felt like the whole thing was in fast forward. No room to breathe. I’m probably just getting slower in my old age.

Anyway despite my general aversion to coming-of-age movies this was alright. The cast was very good and the dialog was funny without being overtly cutesy or precious. Some of it felt very true-to-life in a way most high school movies never manage.

I think my main issue with it aside from the editing/pacing is that I have absolutely no nostalgia or wistfulness about my adolescence and a movie like this inevitably conjures up a lot of stuff I’d rather forget about. That’s not the movie’s fault, it’s my own baggage, but it keeps me from fully enjoying it.

This move did an effective job of killing adolescence.

I enjoyed this movie but:

Loved this so, so much. The matinee I saw was completely sold out. I loathed Frances Ha and Mistress America, just awful, so I went in somewhat skeptical, but was relieved that none of the whimsy or boring sensibility of Baumbach/Anderson/Allen rubbed off on Gerwig.

lol what.

if you told me baumbach directed this I would have believed you. just about everything about this felt like a baumbach movie.

surface level margaret

just about everything about this felt like a baumbach movie.

maybe superficially, but despite the familiar coming of age movie trappings and predictable arc, it just had a different feel than Baumbach & most other coming of age movies. besides the lack of characters with unrealistically hip taste, the relationship with the mother and Lady Bird's normalcy was refreshing and felt more nuanced. she wasn't that cool or edgy or histrionic. the way the material was handled was noticeably different imo, much more subtle.

saw this today & liked it fine, but I never really connected with it? it felt like a lot of put-together bits and pieces. i didnt hate it, i just was kinda nonplussed. a lot of good funny & good emotional moments tho. and sacramento looked lovely :)

the dysfunction between the mom & daughter took me put of it, i think.
Like, i could tell from the get-go that the mom & daughter were close & they got along, so all the sturm and drang felt like white noise. like, the tension between them was kinda low stakes. i couldn’t really invest in it because I knew they’d be fine. of course theyd be fine.

*took me out of it

i loved this movie

just about everything about this felt like a baumbach movie.

this is nonsense. these characters were eminently normal. the parents were not narcissistic intellectuals.

I didn’t get the impression that everything was “fine” between lady bird and her mom at the end of the film — both characters clearly wanted a better relationship with one another, but there was definitely a lot of work to be done. it felt very authentic to me

baumbach comparisons are limiting. Gerwig has a sense of empathy that is obvious scene to scene. Loved this movie and ladybird OTM for leaving a car because the clientele didn't agree with the song. Friendship is beautiful.

Saoirse Ronan introducing at MoMA tonight, if you can squeeze yr way in

This is fine, maybe even the best teen-protagonist comedy since, I don't know, Rushmore? The Baumbach influence is noticeable in the jokes and cuts (not to mention it has the d.p. from 3 Noah films), and I'm not sure he didn't make the better film this year -- they're at least comparable and Meyerowitz is at least as "serious."

My main quibble is it stopped surprising me in the last 10 minutes, basically the entire NYU coda.

these characters were eminently normal.

hmmm, define your terms.

"You're going to have so much unspecial sex in your life." Great line but not sure even a jaded Howard Zinn-reading heartbreaker would come out with that at 17.

I'm not sure how I would've handled Timothee Chalamet saying this to my face w/out turning into a puddle of goo

he's a very pretty boy, but I kinda want to slap him. and not for fun.

what'd you think of Ronan, Metcalfe, Smith, etc?

The nuns and priests here are very accomodating (and sometimes damp with anxiety), not really in the Catholic school tradition. Kinda sickening the one who fawns over precious little Lady Bird, who has called her a cunt and pranked her, although "I thought it was funny" pretty good defense if defense is all you got. Did like the non-nun guidance counselor who had a hearty laugh in the face of LB's pretentions, though also she is not white so it figures to LB/this movie's POV(see "brown" etc. above).

I thought they did as well as they could, as well as they were allowed to, and have done better with better material, hopefully will continue to do so, if you're asking me.

Metcalf is a great actor (saw her on the NY stage before "Roseanne"), and in spite of Mom clearly being written as a "juicy part," delivered. Tracy Letts also underplyed the dad very nicely. Ronan carried the movie and you couldn't hate her even when she dumped her BFF for awhile. Sister Lois reminded me of some of the better nuns who taught me. All-around great casting, probably GG's most essential strength.

There are a lotta priests and nuns "not really in the Catholic school tradition" if you're defining that as pre-Vatican II. That had changed somewhat even in the late '60s when I wore my blazer and tie. (That Lois Smith line at the dance "Leave room for the Holy Spirit" is an old dancing-advice standby.)

Agree with all of that, but it comes down to the way so many movies with strong ensembles end up using them for convenience/overselling of the central character---as I said, lady Bird, her mom, several others make sense motivation-wise/comceptually, but the final results are worked into these efficient reminders of mediocre YA, TV, etc. I'm guessing Gerwig, as a young blonde female indie actress-turned-firsttime-director, felt compelled to develop her material this way, to please the moneymen. May not even have been aware doing so, not in those terms, they may be givens, another variation of the internalizing and self-filtering some Hollywood workers have copped to (especially the former Weinstein assistant who broke the confidentialy agreement she originally signed so as not to be blackballed at Harvey's height). Not that it's Hollywood-exclusive---an editor can imply or say to me, "Don't even think of doing it that way," and so I don't ('til maybe some downtime blogging, obscurely enough---can't do that with movies eh).

what does being young and blonde have to do with it? Also, you're making quite an assumption about motives without evidence.

Yeah what the hell

The way she was seen by the mostly male powers that be. As a young female with no track record. And I said I'm guessing.But however she thought about it, no doubt the director had to negotiate.

No track record as a film director.

I'm not deprecating her, I'm guessing at how she was perceived.

Since the movie seems promising but compromised.

btw Gerwig co-wrote AND co-directed Nights and Weekends (2008) with Joe Swanberg. Probably 'uncompromised' by dow's standards.

Would like to see that, thanks for the tip. Still not much of a track record by moneymen standards (think she and Seth Myers were kicking around the idea of her doing a superhero movie).

meant for this morning's posts to start w response to Dr. Morbius's query, "What's a 'watered-down nun'?", on last (x) movies you saw, for a variety of takes, venting ect.

So wrong thread, sorry.

This is now A24’s highest-grossing release, ahead of Moonlight. This movie did not seem compromised to me.

Curious where dow would rate John Hughes classics on the compromised scale.

No compromises there either -- they're exactly as shitty as Hughes intended.

I'm not sure if you have to be/have been Catholic to find "Make Me a Channel of Your Peace" a hilarious HS audition song or not.

I’m not good enough at gauging intentions to be a practitioner of that scale, I guess. xp

Yeah, for all I know it's fully realized and she's totally happy and all aboard the threshold of a dream like ex-Lady Bird in New York.

In which case good for her and I'll go back to my usual (Stanwyck and Vikander and Jennifer Jason Leigh etc.)

btw i finally watched 20th Century Women and that's one of Gerwig's most varied performances: cancer survivor, late '70s punk feminist who tries to get the young men to say "menstruation" at a dinner party, etc.

What'd you think overall?

I liked it. As it was an autobiographical Mills films, it was full-gauge "California," but that's unavoidable and done with an appropriate level of satire. Bening listening to Black Flag and then Talking Heads with Billy Crudup and saying "Well, I guess we're art fags" was a LOL.

i haven't lied in two years

I liked this film - it was very enjoyable and very easy to get along with.

But after so much hype, I was surprised how unambitious it was. It seemed close to a standard 'indie quirky high school flick' where somehow I had thought it would be much stranger. Kind of in the territory of NAPOLEON DYNAMITE, say, though obviously much less quirky than that. I can't quite think of the other things it reminded me of but it felt like there were loads of them.

The other thing was, I was surprised how little 'struggle' was involved. The main character's family was relatively poor, financially challenged by redundancy, etc - that was the challenge. There wasn't really much else that was WRONG for Lady Bird. She seemed to have everything - race, height, looks, smarts, even eventually college results - and to have a range of cool friends too and no 'mean girls' picking on her, no real jeopardy ... and at the the end she transcended all this to become ... a New York hipster in 2003! (She could almost have been a classic ilx poster in that sense.)

So not much seemed at STAKE ... not much seemed very troubling or worrying or challenging; our heroine started off from a good place and went to an even better one. I suppose this seems a slightly unusual approach to narrative.

The other thing was, I was surprised how little 'struggle' was involved. The main character's family was relatively poor, financially challenged by redundancy, etc - that was the challenge. There wasn't really much else that was WRONG for Lady Bird.

from our end! For a high school teen, everything isg wrong.

I see it as a comedy, so the low stakes were not surprising to me. She's dealing with ordinary adolescent problems that nevertheless feel absolutely important to the vain, imperfect person in the middle of them.

Alfred otm. everything menial felt life and death to me in high school and we largely see things through her perspective

not sure the movie would have improved if Lady Bird needed a miracle liver transplant

alfred otm

Alfred OTM. Imagine being the Beanie Feldstein character and how this story would feel!

Agree with the pinefox.

No I don't wanna

Imagine being the Beanie Feldstein character and how this story would feel!

That's kind of my point -- the story of that character WOULD feature a degree of exclusion, disappointment, insecurity, etc - to a degree that Lady Bird's didn't.

It wouldn't be revolutionary, but a whole film from Julie's POV would be more of a 'victory for the outsider', 'solace for the overlooked', kind of thing, than the actual film was.

On the other hand you can say it's just a quite charming comedy and fun to watch and doesn't need to be different - and I agree. I think I'm only puzzled in the context of a load of hype that suggested it was groundbreaking and special.

'victory for the outsider', 'solace for the overlooked'

Not seen the film described as such, not interested in imagining the movie turned into this.

I for one am always happy to see a movie skip the tropes of conflict and succeed, which I think Lady Bird does.

I thought my issue above was also paralleled in the role of Sacramento.

The film made a big deal about being set in Sacramento; there was much reference to it; late on, a lot of beautiful shots of it; Gerwig has talked of how important all this is.

In the film Sacramento seemed to mean primarily something like 'suburban, safe, boring' - hence LB's desire to go to NYC (understandable but a pretty standard destination for anyone wanting to see the bright lights).

But this whole opposition didn't have much drive for me because Sacramento didn't look boring in the film - it looked glamorous and beautiful - partly because Gerwig wanted it to look that way anyway!

This is partly a UK / US thing - the fact is, almost anywhere in the US looks glamorous, in a certain way, from the UK. Maybe to a US viewer the Sacramento of the film *did* look dull and unappealing?

I am unsure what the UK equivalent would be - I think not somewhere actually downtrodden like Hartlepool or Newport (that you would want to escape cos of its poverty etc), but more a Home Counties town - Winchester?

Well, imagine a film about Winchester, beautifully shot by someone who wanted to show how lovely Winchester was ... and imagine a US viewer seeing it ... They wouldn't be likely to think 'Yea, I can understand how desperate she was to get away from that place!'.

All this to me seems parallel with the general lack of obstacles, struggle, friction, etc.

This has just reminded me of a longago ilx thread - 2003, when LADY BIRD was set? - where Graham was complaining about how awful it was to live in Rye (a beautiful and historic English coastal town) and Tim Hopkins told him he'd love to live in Rye and how much there was to appreciate in it.

So not much seemed at STAKE ... not much seemed very troubling or worrying or challenging; our heroine started off from a good place and went to an even better one. I suppose this seems a slightly unusual approach to narrative.

I mean the fact that her life is basically fine is addressed by the mother in the very first scene - every character over the age of 20 has it worse. I suppose the area where it feels different is in the context of coming-of-age movies? I'm a sucker for films like this but they're usually about escaping your family and your mundane teenage life, whereas this starts off from the point of Lady Bird desperately wanting to escape them and ends with her accepting and moving closer together to them, even as she geographically moves further away. I've not seen it handled quite in that way before.

I liked both the parents in this film. I liked how it occasionally pointed out how they had bigger problems than LB did. I thought the mother was very well acted, and the father a very likeable character. I quite liked the other two family members, Miguel and Shelley, also.

But this whole opposition didn't have much drive for me because Sacramento didn't look boring in the film - it looked glamorous and beautiful - partly because Gerwig wanted it to look that way anyway!

Gerwig the writer and director has a perspective that Lady Bird the character doesn't, though.

I think the film does a very good job at making it clear that Lady Bird's sweeping ambitions are completely quotidian while still staying completely true to them. It isn't that kind to everyone - the shot of the Theatre Priest complaining that the audience didn't appreciate the (terrible) show he'd put on was mean (but very funny).

I also liked the sports coach priest who became a theatre director, though this was broad, positive comedy that could have been in a much less subtle film.

Hang fire though, isn't that the whole point? Sacramento is beautiful to us AND her by the end; that's why she gives that speech on the phone about how much she realized that she loves the place! That moment would seem corny and fake if Gerwig (and co) hadn't made it look beautiful as the film rolls along surely?

Also it's kind of obvious but should probably be said: this movie hits you differently if you've ever had a "oh shit, that's how close we were to the wall" realisation post-teen.

Google tells me that I've mangled that phrase, but ykwim.

AF -- if by wall you mean bankruptcy, I agree that's the darkest shade in the film - but it's not painted that dark here. There isn't eg much hint that they'll lose the house, as far as I can remember.

Pisces - yes, I agree with all of that about the end.

So I suppose my trouble is that we have to watch her being desperate (?) to get away from this awful place long *before* the end, when we can see it's not awful.

Mr Farrell is correct that Gerwig and the character seem to have different perspectives on it - which in theory seems fine - but in practice I think it stops the attitudes that drive the character being easy to sympathise or empathise with.

Probably my attitude is partly just a version of the mother's -- irritation that Lady Bird doesn't appreciate how good she has it.

It's true that teens (or anyone, in a way) might lack perspective and not know how good they have it, and this is realistic in its way ... but it still seems to me an odd basis for a dramatic narrative.

Again: in a way, this odd frictionless quality of the film actually made it more enjoyable. I think I, like others, would have enjoyed it less if a character had spent an hour battling a fatal illness. But I also find it odd, hence remarking on it.

The sports coach scene was hilarious. Another film would have been tempted to play that character in a much crasser and less well-intentioned way but this one has an affection for almost all its characters that really comes through.

AF -- if by wall you mean bankruptcy, I agree that's the darkest shade in the film - but it's not painted that dark here. There isn't eg much hint that they'll lose the house, as far as I can remember.

Aye, but this is because the movie is largely from Lady Bird's point of view.

I think the Pinefox is right that the lack of friction in the film is odd, but that was what I liked best about it. I found myself sympathising with Lady Bird and her desire to get away and being painfully aware that things were, overall, pretty good for her.

I thought her teenage self-centredness (allowing her to dimly glimpse the difficulties in her parents' lives) rang true, and for that to ring true required deft handling. Other films might have played up her brattishness or selfishness (or talent!) to the point that I lost sympathy with the character; might have played up the challenges she faces to the point of making her struggle more obvious.

I ended up reflecting on what it's like to be an ordinary parent and an ordinary kid; she hasn't triumphed over adversity, she's just moved through a phase of her life. I found the whole thing quite affecting.

I'm surprised I said I'd love to live in Rye, though I certainly love visiting it. I think it's generally a good idea to spend a little time and energy recognising what's good about where you live, if you can.

Like, it made me think about the day my Dad drove me to University for the first time; I was so excited to be leaving my attractive, safe town that I barely thought about how tired he must have been from driving, let alone consider how he and my mum must have felt that day as the second of their two children left home. I wish I could talk to him now about how he felt, and maybe even apologise for being a self-centred little idiot.

I'm a sucker for films like this but they're usually about escaping your family and your mundane teenage life, whereas this starts off from the point of Lady Bird desperately wanting to escape them and ends with her accepting and moving closer together to them, even as she geographically moves further away. I've not seen it handled quite in that way before.

― Matt DC, Monday, March 5, 2018 10:18 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Running on Empty (1988), innit? http://www.spiritualityandpractice.com/films/reviews/view/6072

Continue to agree completely with the pinefox' restatement/elaboration of the things I said about the film.

(you haven't actually said anything about this film)

(I did on another thread)

I’ll be interested to see this; my teen years were full of GET ME OUT yet also full of oh shit, will my mum be able to pay the mortgage this month. The latter feeling took a back seat to the getting-out imperative, mainly because getting out was more in my control than my mum’s bills.

Yeah, you would totally love this imo, Suzy

I ran into a friend over the weekend who, I've realized, defaults to a sort of half-argumentative conversational banter by default. I mentioned really enjoying this film and he was prodding me about how, if it were to be about a young man instead, no one would care. After rolling my eyes for a moment, because no one needs to engage on that point, I realized that there is a character for me in the film.

I hadn't realized before seeing Lady Bird that it takes place over her senior year in high school, and is set in 2002 - 2003. That was my senior year of college! So age-wise... I'm a year younger than Lady Bird's older brother, Miguel.

The small plot pieces that set up the time period were subtle, Alanis Morissette and Dave Matthews sing-alongs aside but really sold it for me.

I loved that they did Sondheim's Merrily We Roll Along and went all-in on showing them putting it on. meaning in addition to learning the script for Lady Bird, they had to learn chunks of Merrily We Roll Along too (underappreciated musical)

H8 everyone who doesn’t love and relate to this movie.

In the film Sacramento seemed to mean primarily something like 'suburban, safe, boring' - hence LB's desire to go to NYC (understandable but a pretty standard destination for anyone wanting to see the bright lights).

But this whole opposition didn't have much drive for me because Sacramento didn't look boring in the film - it looked glamorous and beautiful - partly because Gerwig wanted it to look that way anyway!

Lady Bird’s desire to “get out” has more to do with being a teenager and wanting to come into her own identity than it does the particular conditions of her life in Sacramento. Her mother — like all parents — takes the teen rebelliom personally, but it’s a more general kind of rejection of home. And then she comes to an understanding at the end that she was never really resentful of her mother pwe se. Her rebellion was a kind of a necessary but painful phase it’s adolescence nothing to do with sacramento or new york

The movie is great because it recognizes that Lady Bird’s independent streak is BOTH a source of integrity AND immaturity. The movie’s sympathy is not condescending but it also doesn’t romanticize adolescent contrarianism — it’s all seem as part of the human condition. There’s probably a better way to phrase all this but i need to get back to work.

it recognizes that Lady Bird’s independent streak is BOTH a source of integrity AND immaturity

otm

she doesn't even rebel very much! she's kind of an offbeat kid, a conformist non-conformist -- wants to go by a name she chose, runs for student council with the funny posters, cool hair color, but there's no indication that she skips school or really gets in trouble before she tries to impress the "cool" kids. and even then, the nun isn't really bothered because her prank is within the bounds of mild teenage playfulness

it's pretty clear when she gets to college that she never really drank much alcohol as a high school kid

treeship otm, otm

great posts from treesh and Tim.

It seemed to me that her rebellion is felt a lot more by her mother because of their specific situation - the economy is tanking which means you feel this pressure and fragility even before the eventual job loss, and when things should be getting better they're getting worse.

And when could really do with having a sober-minded family member, you've got a teenager, and part of your job is not to freak them out even when they keep tapping at the "wheels fall off" button.

(hey hi in case it's not clear I am projecting pretty strongly here, and will probably dial it back down after a second viewing)

honestly the scenes where she's trying to impress the school kids are so relatable because her rebellious streak has a ceiling due to her being kind-hearted at the core. it very much reminded me of when I was in middle school, trying to fit in and swearing for the first time and having my mom buy me the cool clothes, lying about small things to seem more 'rebellious'...but having to part company when anything truly mean-spirited happened. and of course in the end it doesn't work.

then you return to being who you were before only now you appreciate it more.

all the guys at my school around 8th grade were wearing those dirty Big Johnson shirts and it took about a year and a half for the school to ban them because it took them that long to get the joke.

Yeah, I was about to say that I loved the last scene with Danny, where she's wound up because of what his actions have done to her and complicated what's already a complicated time - but once she sees how freaked out he is, she comforts him.

Also anyone whose heart doesn't sing at her and her mother's "favourite afternoon activity" is frankly dead.

that was a great scene (the Danny one).

really? real estate hopping? I laughed but it didn't make any of my organs sing.

I'll take that.

can we discuss again how beautifully staged and acted the Danny/Lady Bird coming out sequences are?

I recall Lady Bird spitting out “you’re gay” as an attack, her face softening as she realizes what she knows and what it means for her friend

open house gawking is a classic activity in smaller cities and I did that with my mom!

I'd forgotten what the after school activity was. I suppose it may have meant nothing to me as neither I nor most of my classmates grew up primarily in a single family house, and have never really desired to live in one.

open houses are almost entirely a sunday afternoon thing

Tim: it's always good to ... 'Reflect on Rye'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDmgbvGQeF4

I'm grateful to Moo Vaughn for being the only person apart from Tim who agrees with me and I would like to read his or her thoughts on the film (which are apparently on another thread).

Yes let's keep the Lady Bird opinions confined to non-Lady Bird threads, only discussion about God Is Not Dead 3 itt

God: still not dead yet

Happy coincidence - just read this entry from Anthony Powell's Journals, 19.5.82:

"When I was young, and people used to say - as they often did - what an awful place Rye was, with its tarted up antique shops, bogus bohemians, horses brasses, and lesbians, there was always someone to add that Rye was nothing, in some respects, to Winchelsea, which was far worse."

I like both.

'Reflect on Winchelsea'.

Ford Madox Ford did - he lived there - as you probably know, Ward.

But there IS a beautiful place in Sussex called Rye which is near to the SEA yay!
Seriously, yeah that sounded tragically like a parody. The article Elton wrote in the Daily Mail about how all modern pop was rubbish and Queen were the greatest band of all time sealed his fate for me.

― Robin Carmody, Monday, May 13, 2002 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

um, isn't it Rhye?
I'll get me studded vest.

― Mark C, Monday, May 13, 2002 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Rye sucks.
― Graham, Monday, May 13, 2002 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

B-but Henry James' house is in Rye!
― Andrew L, Tuesday, May 14, 2002 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

THE MASTER!
― mark s, Tuesday, May 14, 2002 Bookmark

This is the thread where Graham complained about Rye and Tim said it was actually OK.

Of course I was incorrect to say that Tim explicitly said he wanted to live in Rye. But he was positive about it - as I would be.

I now think that this thread genuinely articulates the issues discussed from LADY BIRD (2017) on ILX in 2002.

How am I going to stay sane for the next 3 months?

I did know that Pinefox, yes. You may also know of Miranda Seymour's book A Ring of Conspirators, which is a good guide to Henry James' literary circle in and around Rye, including Ford, Kipling, Crane and Wells.

I don't think I can do, but I can offer this in response:

http://www.nytimes.com/1982/05/30/books/neighbors-friends-collaborators-enemies.html?pagewanted=all

They sound like very similar books!

I am glad that we have found a thread on which to discuss Rye.

OK, this was about 3 degrees less irritating than the Garden State/Adventureland/Little Miss Sunshine axis wtf is wrong with everyone.

Idk maybe we all have a soul

It’s possible

the jokes are funnier than Adventureland, c'mon

haven't subjected myself to the other two

OK, this was about 3 degrees less irritating than the Garden State/Adventureland/Little Miss Sunshine axis wtf is wrong with everyone.

― two cool rock chicks pounding la croix (circa1916)

That formulation makes as much sense as Bush's Axis of Evil.

yeah this movie was much much more genuine than either of those three, none of which featured characters as deep as the gym teacher-turned-drama teacher who shows up for two scenes, let alone any of the core family members.

like where does Garden State come from? that movie was basically overwrought pathos-by-numbers. this was a much more believable, lived-in universe.

It is more deeply felt and a cut above those films, but there’s a shared aesthetic (really is it hard to fathom that grouping?) and it’s not one I can stomach so easily in 2018.

Expectations tainted by uninhibited praise from all corners I guess. It’s a better version of a thing I hate.

Unpack the grouping

I can see that, it's a thin line, I understand the criticism & dislike, I hate all that shit too. But it never crossed my mind watching Lady Bird. But I understand it

OK, this was about 3 degrees less irritating than the Garden State/Adventureland/Little Miss Sunshine axis wtf is wrong with everyone.
― two cool rock chicks pounding la croix (circa1916)

Idk maybe we all have a soul
― valorous wokelord (silby)

It’s possible
― two cool rock chicks pounding la croix (circa1916)

Like Lady Bird, love Adventureland, but I love that exchange.

there’s a shared aesthetic

what is it?

youth?

Whiteness. Let’s be honest.

Let's say I'd love for Gerwig to have directed Garden State to see how she would have dealt with those tiresome tropes.

films about people that are annoyed all the time?

i haven't seen Ladybird fwiw but it seemed like one of those from the trailer.

films about people that are annoyed all the time?

― Heavy Messages (jed_),

teenagers?

ILXers on the politics threads?

I haven’t seen Little Miss Sunshine but nothing makes me think it belongs in the same category as Ladybird

fwiw she was definitely not annoyed all the time. thought she took the genuine frustrations in stride, which is an actual complaint from some parties who didn’t find a conflict in the movie

IMO the trailer made it seem like a much worse movie than it is.

I don't even object to circa1916's characterization of this as three degrees less annoying than Garden State et. al. It just turns out that's a winning formula for a lot of people, myself included.

Although I've actually never actually seen Garden State. But Adventureland, sure.

um I’m in a movie theater about to see I feel pretty alone and greta gerwig just walked in and sat down in front of me

— jaye hunt (@hayejunt) May 9, 2018

lmao

Queen of my heart

amy schumer: “when we’re little girls–“
greta: “HEEEERE WE GO”

— jaye hunt (@hayejunt) May 9, 2018

i'm dying, don't even care if that twitter person made this all up, it's hilarious

um I’m in a movie theater about to see Annihilation alone and I just walked in and sat down in front of me

— yaye (@danvasmoon) May 13, 2018

Finally saw this. At first I thought I was disappointed by it, and there are still some writing choices that annoy me: I think Gerwig repeatedly emphasizes the family's (relative) poverty a bit too much; Lady Bird making a crack about "the wrong side of the tracks" and passing off her (boy)friend's grandma's house as her own are enough that we don't need the mother constantly reminding her (and us) how poor they all are. Also, the bit about the coach directing the play was funny until Gerwig decides to hammer the joke home a bit too much; I found his discomfort with making the switch from football to theatre a lot funnier before he started mapping out plays and barking out cheers. I took both of these things as a lack of confidence in the material that is likely the result of being a first time director, but they annoyed me all the same. I also didn't find the conclusion as moving as I expect I was meant to, and I wish the movie had found a way to end without the New York stuff, and particularly the phone call.

But the stuff that's good is very good: pretty much all of the performances (Tracy Letts is kind of a secret weapon here), the dimensions afforded to Metcalf's character, the way that the whole prom episode plays out, and the line about attention = love (truthfully, it was these last two that finally bumped me from a strong 6/10 to a more enthusiastic-with-reservations 7/10). At least two bigs laughs for me, as well: I'm thinking of Ronan's response to Chalamet's posturing about Iraq--"Different things can be sad, it's just war!"--and her later bafflement over what's wrong with Greatest Hits albums--"but they're the greatest."

Also, I am embarrassed about how I keep failing to recognize Lois Smith, who was very good both here and in Marjorie Prime and, now that I look her up, has been in a bunch of other things I've seen.

i liked the coach and felt the joke wasn't too laboured. i disliked the ending, just didn't work that well for me, though i liked that she decided to stop calling herself lady bird at least.

overall this was decent, a lot better than whatever crap baumbach shits out these days for sure, but also just sort of middling and ok, a 6 out of 10 maybe if i were to quantify it. feel like "old man shouts at cloud" but the movies these days that get hyped as films of the year are generally pretty good and nothing more.

we don't need the mother constantly reminding her (and us) how poor they all are

But that's what Moms do.

^^^

Liked this movie but slums of Beverly Hills did this coming of age thing way better

Among more recent movies about teenage girls, I still prefer the previous year’s The Edge of Seventeen. Walter Chaw’s review alluded to Ghost World and Hal Hartley’s Trust, which are also much stronger films. But there’s room enough in the world for all of them.

I just saw this on the plane. It was fine; I was likely disappointed since I had higher hopes. I came away from it thinking of Little Miss Sunshine too! Both are films that I never need to see again.

I agree with some upthread. Everything was pleasant, Ronan's character was moderately interesting, the dialogue was moderately amusing. The acting is the best thing in it.

Oh come on, this is way better than LMS!

I think it was better than all of the movies referenced above

Ghost World is probably better.

Both movies mystifyingly had that best picture hype and both were very pleasant enough.

Also I was a high schooler during this time period and everyone loved Crash, regardless of the other music you listened to. But I also was in Virginia.

I think I relate to the story of Lady Bird more than Ghost World, although haven't seen GW in many years and wonder what I would think now. I mainly remember enjoying Thora Birch in it, don't think I've seen her in anything before or since

oh nm she was in American Beauty

Thora Birch's character had more of a personality, outside of her hair, in Ghost World. And she was smarter.

I automatically will like any movie/tv show set in high school, which is why this was such a letdown.

I like high school movies too!

with the exception of classic stuff where I've been pre-exposed to the hype/dismissal, films are often a letdown for me when I go into them with high expectations

Mean girls ftw and easy A

Ladybird was great.

i really dislike high school movies/tv shows/books/etc and avoided lady bird on account of it -- but then i saw it one day when i was home sick and thought it was much better than i expected and less depressing. the scene with the nun about love and attention is what really stuck with me.

ghost world was alright at the time but i still find it too male-gazey

i enjoy HS movies but tbh they never really feel even slightly like my own experience. lady bird actually felt closer to it than most of them (even tho i didn't go to catholic school), maybe because the stakes felt so low, there was a sense of things just sort of happening from day to day. you have a crisis and then you move on to something else. you have a terrible cathartic moment and then the next day you're just sitting in class. so, i dunno, i enjoyed the low-drama aspects of it that ppl complained about upthread. ghost world is great and much much sadder than this movie.

I think part of the problem is that they were using the clip up to to when she jumped out of the car on a lot of chat shows. I was prepared for a different movie.

i liked this almost as much as I hated little miss sunshine

i thought the party scenes were super relatable, like at the rich girl's house and when she went to new york. she kept fucking up but it was never a huge deal. i appreciated that.

i haven't seen and would not watch little miss sunshine. not my bag.

Yikes Little Miss Sunshine is 12 years old. I don't know whose bag that movie was. Sufjan's hat launderer?

Well, I enjoyed it a lot when it came out but I was still a teenager. I rewatched it a few times but it's been a long time. I haven't rewatched Napoleon Dynamite lately either. I think Lady Bird is more of a movie for grown ups than either of those. Of movies about teens I've seen and enjoyed, it's probably one of the most emotionally truthful (see also We Are The Best)

like as much as I enjoy when fiction dwells sentimentally on the supposed idylls of being a teenager, it sucks to be that age, and it probably sucks to parent an older teenager, and Lady Bird is clear-eyed about that.

I've seen people saying Edge Of Seventeen is better at doing the same/similar thing, i preferred this much more but i can see why there's a mini-cult around that film.

You guys use Letterboxd? I can't recall it being mentioned much on ILX but over there this is in the Top 10 films of the decade.

haven't used letterbox'd

in a lot of ways Lady Bird reminds me of aspects of my life - growing up at the lower end of middle class just outside a solidly upper middle class community (with parents who were really committed to educating their kids), going to catholic school, and having to fight with my parents to be allowed to attend an out-of-state college that was way too expensive for them.

the perfect high school movie for me!

j.d. so otm about this getting the day-to-dayness of it all.

yes, seconded.

what is with the love for The Edge of Seventeen? my brother loves it, saw it 10+ in theaters (...???), I saw it once with him and yeah it was good and it definitely felt different than most high school movies. mostly its pacing. but top 10 of the decade? I could be convinced

We just got around to Lady Bird last night. Enjoyed it, especially Saoirse Ronan and Beanie Feldstein, but had some of the "what was the hype about" reaction. It's a nicely acted coming of age story with some uneven writing and pacing. Gerwig has talent but I bet her next movie will be better. The wrong-side-of-the-tracks stuff was a little labored -- I think "Pretty in Pink" did it better. (With the benefit of Harry Dean Stanton, of course.)

I think "Pretty in Pink" did it better

Outside of discussions of movie endings that are on every level incorrect, I've never heard this phrase uttered.

Finally saw this. At first I thought I was disappointed by it, and there are still some writing choices that annoy me: I think Gerwig repeatedly emphasizes the family's (relative) poverty a bit too much; Lady Bird making a crack about "the wrong side of the tracks" and passing off her (boy)friend's grandma's house as her own are enough that we don't need the mother constantly reminding her (and us) how poor they all are. Also, the bit about the coach directing the play was funny until Gerwig decides to hammer the joke home a bit too much; I found his discomfort with making the switch from football to theatre a lot funnier before he started mapping out plays and barking out cheers. I took both of these things as a lack of confidence in the material that is likely the result of being a first time director, but they annoyed me all the same. I also didn't find the conclusion as moving as I expect I was meant to, and I wish the movie had found a way to end without the New York stuff, and particularly the phone call.

But the stuff that's good is very good: pretty much all of the performances (Tracy Letts is kind of a secret weapon here), the dimensions afforded to Metcalf's character, the way that the whole prom episode plays out, and the line about attention = love (truthfully, it was these last two that finally bumped me from a strong 6/10 to a more enthusiastic-with-reservations 7/10). At least two bigs laughs for me, as well: I'm thinking of Ronan's response to Chalamet's posturing about Iraq--"Different things can be sad, it's just war!"--and her later bafflement over what's wrong with Greatest Hits albums--"but they're the greatest."

― Police, Academy (cryptosicko), Friday, July 20, 2018 12:17 PM (yesterday)

great post. the ending bothers me too but ultimately the movie succeeds in making me feel the way it wants to anyway

No one made a Juno comparison? It did have an "I have a burger phone and my entire personality is based on it" oscar nominated air about it. Movies that base themselves on quirk, I want some real joy or rewatchability out of it. I really think GG is super charming, but I somehow just don't love anything she has been involved with.

Thanks k3vin!

I think "Pretty in Pink" did it better

I appreciate the spirit of this statement even if I don't agree with it.

But, hmmm...

Saoirse Ronan = Molly Ringwald
Laurie Metcalf = Harry Dean Stanton
Lucas Hedges = Jon Cryer
Timothee Chalamet = James Spader
Beanie Feldstein = Andrew McCarthy

The Juno comparison is far more insulting than the Pretty in Pink one.

GG occupies the same vibe as Phoebe Waller-Bridge but PWB is just vastly more interesting to me. Maybe I just am tired of NY faux-haplessness.

xxp I really don't think this movie was "quirky" in that sense and I wouldn't compare it to Juno (although I did love Jennifer Garner in that movie)

xpost the Juno and Little Miss comparisons are because they were all nominated for best picture. They aren't ingenues fucking fish, but who is.

I keep thinking about Ladybird and this movie that had Paris from Gilmore Girls in it called "Whatever" too.

the Juno and Little Miss comparisons are because they were all nominated for best picture.

Good point. I thought the intent was to align Lady Bird with Juno and LMS in terms of self-satisfied quirk, but I sense little (if any) of that in Gerwig's film.

ingenues fucking fish, lol

I have no idea who Phoebe Waller-Bridge is

this wasn't in any sense "NY faux-haplessness"

For fellow PWB fans this is the first episode of a new podcast called How To Fail and it's excellent, especially the bit about ballsing up a Downton Abbey audition.

https://howtofail.podbean.com/e/how-to-fail-phoebe-waller-bridge-1531470141/

people have been telling me to watch Fleabag, but I haven't gotten around to it, didn't realize she was in it

xpost, Had no clue about the podcast. Thx.

Fleabag, Crashing, Killing Eve. All highly entertaining.

Oh GG is NY faux haplessness in her general work. I just saw Francis Ha a couple of months ago and was kind of angry about how much I hated it. Like, that's a film that should be catnip to me.

And PWB wrote and created all of the above as well.

I liked Frances Ha, but I agree that it might be categorized as NY faux haplessness

Yeah it's her show based on her 1-woman play, she wrote it and exec produced it and even the title is a pisstake of her name.

I thought Lady Bird was insanely un-quirky? Like she thinks of herself as an outsider and weird but it’s more that she feels like an outlier due to economic status and her dislike of the popular kids.

I think the difference between this and, say, Juno, was the dialogue wasn’t super punchy. It’s not Ghost World because no one is wrapped up in an outlier identity (unless you count the goth crew in her house, and they act like normal people and her brother’s interviewing for norm office jobs). And it’s not a Mean Girls-style star vehicle because the main character is far from the center of her world. If anything, it’s about her figuring out how you even find your place in the world.

^agree

xp don't mean to give short shrift to Frances Ha, I think it is better than almost any other film mentioned in this thread

I didn’t really mean Pretty in Pink is a better movie, but I did feel like the socioeconomic angles in Lady Bird were presented in a more didactic way than in PiP. Where Lady Bird had flaws for me was in some tell-don’t-show tendencies.

fair

I feel like the attempt at understatedness in movies like LB mean we get more extended dialogue about “we don’t have the money!” where in obvious comedy it’s typified by a character just rolling up in a junket car with oil smoke coming from the hood as it lurches to a stop

quirk off the top of my head: early 90s outsider pink hair, jumps out of a car, runs for class office every year, buys lottery ticket, nudie mag, smokes on birthday, teacher shenanigans, did they ever say why she wanted to be called Lady Bird? Saorsie Ronan is soooo good in this though and Chalamet has dreamy eyes.

all of that stuff felt like things an "alternative" kid far from being actually that rebellious or countercultural would really do, rather than someone dreaming up "quirky" things to add "quirky" charm to a false character.... ymmv tho. i will also cop to being close to lady bird's age/generation, and so it feeling even close to "right" in getting the feel of what teenagerdom/high school felt like to me in that period goes a long way in me identifying with and finding it realistic.

I was a high school girl in the early 90s and I was a college rock/120 minutes kid, it still felt quirky. I just wanted the movie to be better and less obvious. It was so close.

wasn't it supposed to take place in the early 2000s? 2003 or something? i think the early 90s were a massively long time ago in lady bird years.

i guess i thought her quasi rebellious hair and clove-smoking were supposed to seem like perennial pursuits of the kind of girl who wants to distinguish herself from her peers and still remains more or less normal. there was nothing esp outstanding about her. i liked that about the movie tbh.

Derp, yeah it says 2002, I don't know why I thought 90s. Maybe because of the use of Crash.

Slums is a much better movie

Ladybird is good but it’s been done way better

Suburbia - slums - little miss sunshine ♥️

did they ever say why she wanted to be called Lady Bird?

No they didn’t, I watched it again to see if I missed anything but this is never explained! wtf

that's one of the good things about it

Lots about this movie felt auxiliary, like sometimes it was nice that certain characters were not expanded on too much but given their moment but some major characters felt underdeveloped to me, like the Mom (despite a wonderful performance).

when you're a teen, are moms ever really knowable

fwiw I took the musical choices of LB and her friend to be kind of this nerdy friend thing where they were still really stuck on the songs that came out when they were in middle school

What I liked most about LB was that it seemed made with a light touch which also suggested confidence/assurance. I loved when it indulged silly and absurd humor, like the football coach's stage directions.

The movie didn't really "stick with me" but definitely charmed and entertained.

i guess tuition got too expensive in NYC for Lady Bird :/ https://t.co/sG7T6LBuB4

— m (@myownprividaho) September 4, 2018

She shouldn't have taken that magazine!

wow @mugshotbaes is an obnoxious concept

absolutely but I won't deny I legitimately lol'd at this the moment I caught it

I was yesterday years old when I found out Beanie Feldstein is Jonah Hill's little sister.

you can see it in her face, but yeah, this is not widely known i dont think

oh weird.

this was great. so, so many killer lines

I watched it a few days ago and didn't actually care for it!

You monster why on earth not

I can't remember, I was drunk.

:)

Watching a movie drunk seems weird

not sure id actually seen saoirse in anything, tbh. jesus shes note perfect and better in this.

doing anything drunk seems weird, because youre drunk

Saoirse Ronan is the best

She hasn't given a bad performance yet.

I taught this film last fall -- my students love it.

I’m way overdue to see Brooklyn.

Alfred I should reiterate that I recall that your review you linked upthread really touched me.

Watching a movie drunk seems weird

― silby,

There's a pandemic on!

I do love Saoirse, though. A LOT.

I know the film makes her dowdy deliberately but I think she's astonishingly beautiful and she is so simpatico.

oh! Thank you! *hugs at 10 feet*

Brooklyn is old-fashioned solid-good film making and it is great and she looks incredible throughout. It has finesse.

I found it very moving, much to my surprise.

yes, I did too

and Emory Cohen is cute as fuck

yes, looked him up straight away.

He is not cute anywhere else.

his character in the novel is a perfect smouldering flame

he's kinda creepy-cute. intriguing.

I guess that's good/clever casting! xp

Christine 'Lady Bird' McPherson: Just because something looks ugly doesn't mean that it's morally wrong.

GINNI THOMAS: You think dead children aren't morally wrong?

Christine 'Lady Bird' McPherson: No. I'm just saying that, if you took up close pictures of my vagina while I was on my period, it would be disturbing but it doesn't make it wrong.