Star Trek Discovery: The Bryan Fuller TV reboot

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed

Might as well give it its own thread. We got teaser trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXpPweAooeE

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 18 May 2016 22:22 (three years ago) link

Huh! I assumed it would be on the CW.

Jenny Ondioleeene (Leee), Wednesday, 18 May 2016 22:26 (three years ago) link

Nah, CBS is going all in to build their own private Hulu, and this show is going to be anchor for it.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 18 May 2016 22:28 (three years ago) link

Ugh I could not even watch that trailer - I guess I am too old.

Brian Eno's Mother (Latham Green), Wednesday, 18 May 2016 22:37 (three years ago) link

Capt. Mads Mikkelsen or bust.

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Wednesday, 18 May 2016 23:15 (three years ago) link

fingers crossed but I am skeptical

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 18 May 2016 23:26 (three years ago) link

hoping they'll go for mostly single-episode plots like old treks rather than just make another serial like every other major tv series these days

ciderpress, Wednesday, 18 May 2016 23:28 (three years ago) link

TV seems to have lost their touch - its all been downhill since Picard gave Mr Data his last rimjob

Brian Eno's Mother (Latham Green), Wednesday, 18 May 2016 23:30 (three years ago) link

I've thought for a while that taking the "Far Beyond the Stars" conceit as real would've been amazing, though not exactly sustainable on a series-wide basis (i.e. that would've been a much better DS9 finale than what we got).

Jenny Ondioleeene (Leee), Wednesday, 18 May 2016 23:31 (three years ago) link

what does the startrekman have to say about all this

ciderpress, Wednesday, 18 May 2016 23:32 (three years ago) link

four weeks pass...

time to merge star trek and star wars and add in ALF

Brian Eno's Mother (Latham Green), Thursday, 16 June 2016 17:27 (three years ago) link

Hmm, well Paramount will probably sell the Trek to Disney once they are finally able to admit to themselves the glaringly-obvious fact that they're embarrassed to own the property, and I'm pretty sure ALF is a Muppet, so I think this has legs.

Manspread Mann (Old Lunch), Thursday, 16 June 2016 17:52 (three years ago) link

you dont think wb would buy trek to keep the wb/disney battle going on a new front?

we should all delete our account (Will M.), Thursday, 16 June 2016 18:03 (three years ago) link

Interesting proposal, I look forward to the WB Trek movie where Spock drives an axe through Kirk's spinal column for no particular good reason other than that it's totally dark + extreme to the max.

Manspread Mann (Old Lunch), Thursday, 16 June 2016 18:18 (three years ago) link

four weeks pass...

I think they may reenvision ALF as CGI

Brian Eno's Mother (Latham Green), Friday, 15 July 2016 16:15 (three years ago) link

three months pass...

...looks like I should edit the thread title

http://tvline.com/2016/10/26/star-trek-discovery-bryan-fuller-showrunner-stepping-down/

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 22:55 (three years ago) link

Oh great another Kurtzman-Goldsman joint. Because they did such a great job with Fringe.

Einstein, Kazanga, Sitar (abanana), Thursday, 27 October 2016 10:42 (three years ago) link

akiva goldsman's continued success is one of life's great mysteries

yokohama fuckdolphin (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 27 October 2016 10:58 (three years ago) link

oh c'mon, s2-4ish of Fringe were pretty good

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Thursday, 27 October 2016 11:09 (three years ago) link

this is weird to me. why would fuller walk away from this because he 'doesn't have time'? clearly something must have been going wrong.

akm, Thursday, 27 October 2016 13:15 (three years ago) link

I hear he wants to spend more time with his family.

Wikipedia Brown and the Case of the Incomplete Filmography (Old Lunch), Thursday, 27 October 2016 13:27 (three years ago) link

season 3 of fringe was pretty good. then kurtzman & orci demanded a dumb cliffhanger and the show never recovered.

Einstein, Kazanga, Sitar (abanana), Thursday, 27 October 2016 13:30 (three years ago) link

Trek has always had a mix of inspired weirdos and hacks, I feel like it benefits from that.

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 27 October 2016 13:33 (three years ago) link

Fuller's working on at least two other tv series, including American Gods. If the Paramount people kept meddling and were an irritating presence, it'd be a good reason to bail.

mh 😏, Thursday, 27 October 2016 14:00 (three years ago) link

He's still writing/plotting at least

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 27 October 2016 14:39 (three years ago) link

one month passes...

http://www.polygon.com/2016/12/14/13962170/star-trek-discovery-lead-walking-dead

Sonequa Martin-Green will play the lead (the XO of Discovery).

Should we change this thread title?

a Warren Beatty film about Earth (El Tomboto), Thursday, 15 December 2016 18:08 (two years ago) link

I'm not going to believe this show is happening until there's an actual pilot date.

Bianca Smell BO (Leee), Thursday, 15 December 2016 20:32 (two years ago) link

Should we change this thread title?
to:
Sasha Deathwatch

Spencer Chow, Thursday, 15 December 2016 23:24 (two years ago) link

It's funny how much she looks like a younger Angela Bassett who had been tipped to be in the series.

Spencer Chow, Thursday, 15 December 2016 23:27 (two years ago) link

wasn't there a rumor they were doing an anthology series with a different timeframe/cast each season? hmm.

mh 😏, Thursday, 15 December 2016 23:48 (two years ago) link

three months pass...

Well this is still taking forever. I will however happily back this:

https://tvline.com/2017/03/31/star-trek-discovery-rainn-wilson-harry-mudd-cbs-all-access/

Ned Raggett, Friday, 31 March 2017 17:52 (two years ago) link

lol I watched the original Mudd ep the other night w my daughter and the entire time I was distracted by the highly visible shaving line all around Carmel's neck.

Οὖτις, Friday, 31 March 2017 17:56 (two years ago) link

five months pass...

Fucking hell it's tomorrow

I have concerns but I really *want* it to be good

Chuck_Tatum, Saturday, 23 September 2017 17:43 (two years ago) link

I guess I hadn't been paying attention but, uh, you have to pay for some CBS streaming service to watch this beyond the first episode? Really? I hope everyone enjoys the first ST series to last exactly one season.

Señor Winces (Old Lunch), Sunday, 24 September 2017 15:02 (two years ago) link

It's on Netflix in the UK and a bunch of other countries

Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 24 September 2017 15:22 (two years ago) link

A few reviews have slipped through the embargo and been decent

Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 24 September 2017 15:23 (two years ago) link

This should be worth a flyer just for more Michelle Yeoh.

Insane Clown Fosse (Leee), Sunday, 24 September 2017 15:27 (two years ago) link

I'm sorry, I misunderstood: CBS is only airing the first half of the two hour pilot on actual TV. Fun idea.

Señor Winces (Old Lunch), Sunday, 24 September 2017 15:51 (two years ago) link

If they streamed it only on the CBS app but allowed digital purchases on amazon, itunes, etc. it'd make more sense. but, afaik, they are making it only available on the CBS app

so irritating, I'd shell out for the entire season purchase even if it trickles out a week at a time as per usual

mh, Sunday, 24 September 2017 16:48 (two years ago) link

i'll probably wait until next year and stream the whole season then. or find "other ways" that will appear soon, i'm sure

Nhex, Sunday, 24 September 2017 17:00 (two years ago) link

I just did the free CBS trial on my tv device, but I guess it doesn't air until tonight? boo

mh, Sunday, 24 September 2017 17:22 (two years ago) link

I guess I hadn't been paying attention but, uh, you have to pay for some CBS streaming service to watch this beyond the first episode? Really? I hope everyone enjoys the first ST series to last exactly one season.

― Señor Winces (Old Lunch)

yeah i mean i know game of thrones seems to do ok and all but i'm not sure why directly adopting a piracy-based business model is cbs's schtick here

anyway when the streaming service fails they'll probably just toss it to another streaming service. doesn't necessarily doom the show.

bob lefse (rushomancy), Sunday, 24 September 2017 18:48 (two years ago) link

Phase II - proposed for Paramount Television Service, a fourth US network
Voyager (1995-2001), Enterprise (2001-2005) - designed to support UPN (1995-2006)

Einstein, Kazanga, Sitar (abanana), Sunday, 24 September 2017 18:56 (two years ago) link

nice ship -- too bad they haven't invented probes yet and have to send their first officer into lethal radiation

mookieproof, Monday, 25 September 2017 02:00 (two years ago) link

this was fun but fuck CBS for making me watch a thousand NAVY SEALS promos and then asking for money to keep watching

El Tomboto, Monday, 25 September 2017 02:15 (two years ago) link

points for having the main plot thread be about a black woman trying to tell everybody "no really, they're going to kill all of us" and being shouted down

El Tomboto, Monday, 25 September 2017 02:17 (two years ago) link

cbs has consistently been tightassed with digital access to its programming since the tv-web boom, it's annoying

j., Monday, 25 September 2017 03:20 (two years ago) link

Enjoying this!

First question: how can I get one of those dope uniforms

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 25 September 2017 04:42 (two years ago) link

We signed up for free trial - canceled after 2nd ep & got a month free so 4 more episodes

But seriously $6 for 1 original show and commercials is a joke. $10 if you want commercial free? Eat a dick

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 25 September 2017 05:20 (two years ago) link

A few minutes in, it looks right at least. The ship and cinematography look like a Star Trek show (vs. the new movies).

louise ck (milo z), Monday, 25 September 2017 05:43 (two years ago) link

New Klingons - ehhhhhhhh. The makeup is so heavy their faces barely move.

louise ck (milo z), Monday, 25 September 2017 06:02 (two years ago) link

Huh.

louise ck (milo z), Monday, 25 September 2017 06:59 (two years ago) link

The theme manages to have twelve different sections, goes a bit Mahler for some reason, not very catchy

Although I speak as someone who liked Faith of the Heart so ignore me

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 25 September 2017 07:44 (two years ago) link

Only seen the first hour - I feel like I can semi-credibly guess which ideas/dialogue came from Fuller and what came from Kurtzman/Goldsman. Not bad but the character-backstory shit is hacky and painful.

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Monday, 25 September 2017 14:13 (two years ago) link

Thought it was ok. Will keep watching.

But yeah, the theme tune is a mess

groovypanda, Monday, 25 September 2017 14:17 (two years ago) link

I liked the show!

At the beginning I was thinking "hmm, is this Star Trek enough?"

But, thinking back, the best shows start out with their own scope and integrate. Enterprise was slavishly devoted to tying into continuity while not fleshing out much history. More than anything I got the impression that someone (Fuller? looked like he was the writer w/Ortzman) had an understanding of what TNG and DS9 did well.

The previews make it look like it's going to be scientific discovery (hah!) in a time of war. Which is a clearer mission statement than we've gotten recently.

mh, Monday, 25 September 2017 14:20 (two years ago) link

Yeah did enjoy that and thought there was going to be more, but I guess CBS is running it as a weekly show and selling it on elsewhere.

Stevolende, Monday, 25 September 2017 14:30 (two years ago) link

Gotta free up airtime for those Chuck Lorre productions and NCIS: Anchorage.

Gewgaws for Meemaw (Old Lunch), Monday, 25 September 2017 14:38 (two years ago) link

I know it's a Toronto production, so I hate to say this but most of the sets looked pretty lacklustre. Felt like they were adding the occasional lens flares out of sheer desperation to spice it up. And yeahhh, the guys playing Klingons can't even act in all that get up. Hopefully they will sort it out as it goes along.

Manitobiloba (Kim), Monday, 25 September 2017 15:35 (two years ago) link

I'm guessing the backgrounds in the Klingon ship were put there in post-production, because they were pretty ornate?

mh, Monday, 25 September 2017 15:44 (two years ago) link

I thought the story was engaging & the character development pretty solid for a 2-ep premiere. I am so used to expecting exposition dumps for new shows but this played out like a mini movie, it was kinda thrilling tbh

I think the Michael character has been set up with good layers & i’m really interested to follow her journey now

Doug Jones was great & I loved Michelle Yeoh

Klingon makeup looks more like the movie Romulans but dont they always seem to screw around with their look iirc?

Mr Veg had some gripes about how it doesn’t look like it’s taking place before the original series but i wasnt too bothered by that myself

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 25 September 2017 16:41 (two years ago) link

I was wondering if teh original Klingons were supposed to look like evil humans intentionally. Seem to be a bit Hispanic pirate update in the tv series or something don't they? Is that why they were made to look less human.

Stevolende, Monday, 25 September 2017 16:45 (two years ago) link

Latest look has shades of Tudor era doublet and hose and tunic look don't it?

Stevolende, Monday, 25 September 2017 16:46 (two years ago) link

klingons lose a bit of menace when they sound like they're trying to talk through a retainer.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/1/1f/Shelley.png
today ish a good day to die, you turdsh!

Philip Nunez, Monday, 25 September 2017 16:56 (two years ago) link

lol

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 25 September 2017 16:59 (two years ago) link

should I watch this or is it going to be totally cancelled within a year

akm, Monday, 25 September 2017 17:22 (two years ago) link

(I hated enterprise and found most of voyager boring as fuck)

akm, Monday, 25 September 2017 17:22 (two years ago) link

it won't get "cancelled"... i'm sure first season's in the can
also, if they're really using this as a push for CBS All Access (I wonder how The Good Fight did) they'll probably keep it alive for that alone, regardless of ratings or quality. i mean look at Netflix's insane stable of shows, who knows how well any of these do or how much they cost to keep going with the verticality of it all

Nhex, Monday, 25 September 2017 17:27 (two years ago) link

i can't even imagine picking up another subscription tv service, not for this. piracy it is.

akm, Monday, 25 September 2017 17:43 (two years ago) link

The first hour was a disaster. tons of pilot-speak where characters explain things that should be obvious in their world. tons of phrases that they put in because they sounded cool despite not making sense -- how is a species both "prey" and "bred to sense death"? the michael actress ruins a bunch of her lines. i found michelle yeoh's accent distracting, but the rest of her performance was solid. filler with an optical scrambler that lets them do the "go back to old technology" bit, which has been done frequently in Star Trek but still sucks. crap CG during the space walk.

second hour does the "balance of terror" / enemy below thing. not the best use of it but it still works. lots of forced parallels that are more coincidental than meaningful. i was pleasantly surprised by the ending.

oh and i was distracted by trying to figure out where in the ST timelines this happens -- young Sarek + Klingons gone for a century = shortly before TOS, timeline still not split. i suppose ST fans will just look it up online.

Einstein, Kazanga, Sitar (abanana), Monday, 25 September 2017 18:42 (two years ago) link

Continuity-wise, Shran from Enterprise will be happy to see they've named a ship after him... it's certainly BEEN A LONG ROAAAAAAAAAAD

Philip Nunez, Monday, 25 September 2017 18:59 (two years ago) link

I thought this took place before Enterprise?

akm, Monday, 25 September 2017 19:28 (two years ago) link

100 years after Enterprise, or thereabouts. About a decade before the original series.

mh, Monday, 25 September 2017 19:32 (two years ago) link

Just read it said that it was supposed to be about 10 years before the Shatner series. But that might be open to debate.

Stevolende, Monday, 25 September 2017 19:34 (two years ago) link

They might run into, or at least hear about, the Enterprise commanded by Christopher Pike

mh, Monday, 25 September 2017 19:40 (two years ago) link

oh I'm sure they will at some point if not this year then next year when the ratings start to flag. expect a time travel episode with someone from TNG at some point too to revive interest.

akm, Monday, 25 September 2017 19:45 (two years ago) link

they've already got Sarek, what else do they need?

mh, Monday, 25 September 2017 19:47 (two years ago) link

Khan's older stoner brother Chad.

Philip Nunez, Monday, 25 September 2017 19:51 (two years ago) link

CHAAAAAAAAAD

mh, Monday, 25 September 2017 19:53 (two years ago) link

lol

Οὖτις, Monday, 25 September 2017 19:57 (two years ago) link

I liked this quite a bit and I think it's about as good as a Star Trek show could be in 2017. It's not what I would consider ideal, but it's what works now. Hopefully, they can keep it up.

Spencer Chow, Monday, 25 September 2017 22:37 (two years ago) link

the internet informs me that giving strong female characters traditionally male names is a 'trademark' of fuller or one of the other three dozen executive producers

i don't really gi

mookieproof, Monday, 25 September 2017 23:01 (two years ago) link

i’ve met several women named michael, just kind of figured they decided in the future “michelle” is just how french people pronounce the name

mh, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 00:16 (two years ago) link

and let’s not forget queen of all michaels, michael hyatt aka mama barksdale

http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/558867506da8111716adf0f6-840-688/screen%20shot%202015-06-22%20at%203.51.04%20pm.png

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 00:56 (two years ago) link

whoa, Michelle Yeoh

however i will probly never watch

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 01:05 (two years ago) link

who plays Sarek?

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 01:05 (two years ago) link

james frain

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 01:25 (two years ago) link

which is weird bc he’s the “bad guy” in like, everything. so seeing him play sarek is some cognitive dissonance like “ok well i ~guess~ he’s cool bc he’s sarek ...but it’s james frain so he might be plotting the downfall of the entire starfleet!”

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 01:27 (two years ago) link

we don’t have a lot of cool-mannered, calculating figures who look like that who normally play protagonists

mh, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 02:30 (two years ago) link

serious sheldon cooper vibes from lieutenant saru (whose name is maybe a nod to joe meek's i hear a new world?)

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 03:06 (two years ago) link

ha, i was thinking the same thing about saru

this was fine, i guess? the floaty-camera dutch-angle shots were getting pretty tiresome by the end of the second episode but, having said that, i did enjoy how much more they made of the freedom of movement available in space than previous star trek shows - ships not always lining up in neat horizontal angles and the off-centredness of the accretion rings was cool

i also liked how the lighting helped the spaces inside the ship feel more like they were actually in space - instead of the flat, institutional lighting of tng or voyager the sets and characters were sometimes lit by sources outside the ship's windows, and it looked great

kind of a bummer that michelle yeoh isn't going to stick around but since she was listed as a guest star in the opening credits it was immediately obvious that she'd end up getting killed :(

Mr. Eulon Mask, urging the UN to ban the "homicide robot" (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 09:47 (two years ago) link

i also liked how the lighting helped the spaces inside the ship feel more like they were actually in space

It's one of the weird/interesting things about Trek that it never feels like a space show in *actual* space - it's just set in spaceships. There's no dogfights, space walks, gravity losses, all those cliches - every time you see a Trek character in a space suit, it feels like the rules are being breached. Even the space battles feel like turn-based RPGs rather than action sequences. (I'm sure there are exceptions - "The Doomsday Machine" springs to mind.)

My partner was like "The whole point of spaceships is to *avoid* being in space - sailors don't keep jumping in the sea to get things done."

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 11:19 (two years ago) link

"kind of a bummer that michelle yeoh isn't going to stick around" well fuck, that was actually the main reason I was even going to bother watching it.

akm, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 12:29 (two years ago) link

i think she'll be showing up in flashbacks in future episodes fwiw

Mr. Eulon Mask, urging the UN to ban the "homicide robot" (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 12:37 (two years ago) link

she's ghost mom, sarek appearing via katra vision is ghost dad

mh, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 13:51 (two years ago) link

Finally watched - that was pretty fun. I enjoyed it more than any single episode of Voyager or Enterprise I can recall.

The design worked, I think - all that primary colour neon is lovely. But the direction was pretty wretched - the floaty camera makes everything look like an RPG cutscene.

Michael is a bit wooden so far, but will hopefully be a bit more layered after next week's time jump.

The theme is growing on me but it doesn't build - just when it should be climaxing it segues into the old TOS fanfare.

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 21:35 (two years ago) link

#StarTrekDiscovey joins "Game of Thrones" as one of the most pirated TV shows in less than 24 hours: https://t.co/WLUg8O1J7d pic.twitter.com/nN57FF0ZQU

— IndieWire (@IndieWire) September 26, 2017

shocking news

mookieproof, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 21:37 (two years ago) link

This is smugly delivered and full of old staple TNG jokes... but the clips are very endearing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6Zc8Co2H3w

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 22:34 (two years ago) link

The lead actress (RIP Michelle Yeoh ;_;) does bungle at least one of her lines, but most of her dialogue and delivery are pretty effective -- I was looking for pointy ears just based on her demeanor before we're told that she grew up on Vulcan.

I liked how the show is splitting the difference of society's worst traits between Starfleet and the Klingons, particularly the Klingon wariness about Starfleet's "We come in peace" rhetoric. Also, it's a corrective to Starfleet's stated mandate of scientific exploration masking its imperial impulses. I don't expect it to be carried out much further, though.

The SF half of the cold open was hokey, but I guess one of the most Trek things of this so far.

Insane Clown Fosse (Leee), Wednesday, 27 September 2017 07:57 (two years ago) link

I did like how they departed from Vulcan pacifism to a Gonzo pragmatic realpolitik.

Also the reviews saying that the hologram communications were novel are forgetting that it was already introduced by DS9, and I'm pretty sure Voyager used something like it too. (I was bound to go into out-nerding mode!)

Insane Clown Fosse (Leee), Wednesday, 27 September 2017 08:34 (two years ago) link

Michelle Yeoh's death was kind of offhand and (mostly) offscreen - I kind of felt like she wasn't definitely, definitively dead.

Or maybe it was just bad direction.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 09:13 (two years ago) link

who knows, maybe she'll show up in future episode in a captain pike-style techno-wheelchair

Mr. Eulon Mask, urging the UN to ban the "homicide robot" (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 27 September 2017 12:48 (two years ago) link

Would watch a Star Trek iteration where the entire crew is consigned to Pikechairs.

this is ridcolus (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 27 September 2017 12:55 (two years ago) link

I watched the first two episodes, was mostly disappointed. I guess I was optimistic in believing that a return to original Star Trek timeline would make this series more like the previous Trek TV shows and less like the Abrams movies. But the first two eps were exactly like the rebooted movies: more violence, more grim and gritty action scenes, a brooding and edgy anti-hero protagonist, who starts the story by neck-pinching her captain and attempting a mutiny.

OTOH, the utopian idealism and the cool sci-fi concepts that made the best of TV Trek so unique were nowhere to be found. Okay, pretty much none of the pilots for other Star Trek have been perfect, but at least all of them tried to explore some neat sci-fi ideas, even if they weren't always successful. Here, however, it's just Klingon and Federation ships shooting each other in space, protagonists arguing and shouting at each other, Klingons being stereotypically proud and violent and stupid.

The Klingons were really the worst part. I guess I can live with the inexplicable change in their physical features, but the story made them look more childish and stupid than ever before, even for race who's niche has always been that they're the Space Vikings.

To summarize, a random spaceship captain summons the leaders of the 24 ruling Houses. This captain, whom none of the other leaders seem to rate very highly, tells them that they should start a war against the Federation, pretty much for the sole reason that he doesn't like humans. The leaders don't seem to be particularly convinced, but then captain dude fires his weapons at Shenzhou and provokes a battle between the Klingon and Federation ships. And somehow this random and pointless act makes the other Klingon leaders suddenly think he was right, and at the end of the episode they're chanting his name like he's some kind of Messiah... Even though he still hasn't provided any better justification for war than his personal feelings towards the Federation.

So, basically, we're supposed to accept the leaders of the great Klingon Houses are like little kids, willing to wage a war against an powerful interplanetary coalition because another kid dares them to do that? It's just corny.

And of course there's the time-honoured tradition of Starfleet captains ignoring Starfleet regulations and personally going on dangerous off-ship missions instead of ordering someone else to do it. This time it was particularly stupid, though, cos captain Georgiou thought it would make sense for the two highest-ranking officers to board a Klingon ship and take no one else with them, not even the redshirts seen in the previous episode. I guess the writers at least wanted to point out how silly this is, cos their mission failed utterly, leading to Georgiou dying and the Klingon captain becoming a martyr, which is exactly what they wanted to avoid.

On the acting level, the protagonist seemed decent, but as much as I've liked Michelle Yeoh in HK movies, it feels she was miscast here. All that technobabble just didn't seem to suit her well, in some of the more jargony scenes it felt like she was reading directly from the script. Sarek's actor was okay, but it felt like he was being a bit too nudge-nudge, wink-wink, a bit too human compared to how Mark Lenard played him.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 13:07 (two years ago) link

Also the reviews saying that the hologram communications were novel are forgetting that it was already introduced by DS9

Can't blame anyone for not remembering the DS9 comm holograms, cos they were introduced in one episode, then maybe used in one more, and after that promptly forgotten for the rest of the series.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 13:15 (two years ago) link

Oh, yeah, I meant to add to the actor reviews that the guy playing the big alien did a fine job, he was pretty much the highlight of pilot. I could imagine him becoming the Data or the Phlox of this series. His spider-sense for death was total anti-scientific bullshit tho. And I was gonna say the same about Sareks' intergalactic telepathy, but I guess it was already established in that "Beauty and Beast in space" Enterprise episode that some telepaths can communicate over extremely long distances. Still, makes you wonder why no Vulcans have ever been shown using this ability before? I'm sure it would've been handy in the countless episoded where the away team is stranded on a planet and they're communicators won't work.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 13:22 (two years ago) link

Same reason why we've never heard mention of Spock's adopted sister before now, it's a handy retcon.

Insane Clown Fosse (Leee), Wednesday, 27 September 2017 14:38 (two years ago) link

they're very quiet about it when among outsiders

mh, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 14:40 (two years ago) link

So, basically, we're supposed to accept the leaders of the great Klingon Houses are like little kids, willing to wage a war against an powerful interplanetary coalition because another kid dares them to do that?

And yet the possibility of something like that happening in the regards to some actual world leaders isn't that far off.

MarkoP, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 14:47 (two years ago) link

I don't think establishing that the Klingons, especially in the early Federation days, as a culture that prizes battle as social interaction and victory as a marker of social prestige is any thing new. Even in the relatively diplomatic Klingon era of DS9, you still have the idea going to battle together is how you cement a partnership, and the risk of dying in battle isn't a negative, it's a cost of doing business.

mh, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 14:53 (two years ago) link

"this battle has a high risk of casualties" isn't a moment for klingon introspection. for them, they're thinking "fuck yeah, that is a worthy battle"

mh, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 14:54 (two years ago) link

I thought the use of stealth mode not to, as many would, gain a tactical position on which to fire but using stealth as a weapon in itself and intimidation tactic was kind of new but still very Klingon

using stealth to sneak up behind your enemy -> weak

using stealth to get close enough you gloriously ram their ship -> for the empire!!!

mh, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 14:56 (two years ago) link

Insane Clown Fosse (Leee) at 5:38 27 Sep 17

Same reason why we've never heard mention of Spock's adopted sister before now, it's a handy retcon.


Well yeah, but at least they've promised an in-story explanation for why the adopted sister has never been mentioned before... I kinda doubt they'll do the same with the long-range telepathy.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 14:59 (two years ago) link

how many people in Trek have both had a connection to someone else's katra *and* been trained enough in Vulcan culture to be able to tune in?

Might have been some situation with Tuvok on Voyager but he was on the same ship as the people he'd had to mind-meld with for the most part, Kirk definitely was an unfocused mind, etc

mh, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 15:01 (two years ago) link

mh at 5:54 27 Sep 17

"this battle has a high risk of casualties" isn't a moment for klingon introspection. for them, they're thinking "fuck yeah, that is a worthy battle"


Well yeah, but my point is that they were tricked into a battle by a guy who they don't respect much, and for a reason only that guy seems to care much about. So their sudden conversion, where at the end of the episode they're chanting the captain's name, and being all, "hell yeah, he was right!", felt unearned. That's like a stereotype of the Klingon bloodlust, but the problem is that the other Trek series have already made that stereotype more complex. For example, it's been shown several times that "proper" Klingons don't fight unless they feel the fight is honourable. How is being tricked into joining someone else's personal war honourable? If the captain dude had somehow made it look like the Federation started the conflict, then it would make more sense for the House leaders to demand revenge... But they were right there and then when he fired the first shot at Shenzhou, and he made his whole plan quite clear to them.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 15:11 (two years ago) link

uniting the empire seems honorable!

it's a problem in search of an enemy

mh, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 15:15 (two years ago) link

Michelle Yeoh's death was kind of offhand and (mostly) offscreen - I kind of felt like she wasn't definitely, definitively dead.

Or maybe it was just bad direction.

I felt like this was the worst part of the pilot, except for the scene right afterwards with the albino Klingon and T'Kuvma when they zoom all the way in on his face. Everything in that sequence is so telegraphed and pokey and dumb.

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 15:16 (two years ago) link

the federation is without honor, "we come in peace" isn't a way you make allies. you make allies with war, and come to a detente via respect (seen in how the vulcans apparently acted)

mh, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 15:16 (two years ago) link

B-b-but Vulcans are a part of the Federation!

Tuomas, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 15:18 (two years ago) link

how many people in Trek have both had a connection to someone else's katra *and* been trained enough in Vulcan culture to be able to tune in?

T'Pol and Tucker definitely had a strong psychic bond, and there were many episodes where one or the other was stranded on some planet where the Enterprise couldn't find them with their sensors. This kind of remote telepathy would've been pretty handy then.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 15:26 (two years ago) link

I can't be as negative as Tuomas as I thought it was pretty fun and unlike the Abrams movies. And even as a gold-plated Trekkie nerd, I can't bring myself to give a shit about the internal consistency between shows.

But, yes, it was kinda disappointing that it all ends with a space battle and a lame punch-up, and none the characters who believe in peaceful negotiation get a sympathetic ear.

Really the only good Star Trek fights are the TNG ones where someone gets clocked in their living quarters and falls over a table.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 15:31 (two years ago) link

Enterprise wasn't real, that was Riker watching a tv show version of the past

I'm sticking with this

mh, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 15:46 (two years ago) link

xpost
Nah, any original series punch up where Kirk gets his shirt ripped is CLASSIC in every sense.

Gunpowder Julius (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 27 September 2017 15:47 (two years ago) link

Fair, I'll add anything that involves sweaty shirt ripping

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 16:02 (two years ago) link

T'Pol and Tucker definitely had a strong psychic bond

i believe they actually did have a remote telepathic scene in one episode. towards the end of the series there was a case of "why are you in my dream?" then t'pol explained something similar to the explanation in discovery

Rael Estate (diamonddave85), Wednesday, 27 September 2017 16:41 (two years ago) link

So last night was pretty bad all around -- dialogue, acting, characters, plot. (Was the tehcnobabble on the other series so poorly delivered as it was last night?) Overall, the worst thing about the episode was how ham-handedly it tries to say, "THIS AIN'T YOUR DAD'S STAR TREK," especially with the gore and the one-off profanity.

Lorca is like Zach Snyder's version of Kirk with his unscrupulous cowboy diplomacy x 10 (and wtf was he doing with a tribble?).

Black alert sounds cool, though -- I wonder how involved Discovery is with Section 31.

I do wish we got to see some of the AI characters a little more.

Discovery is the first time that the Aspie stand-in is an actual human Aspie. Don't know how successful that will be.

Klingon T'Kuvma Why Don't You Love Mah? (Leee), Monday, 2 October 2017 16:59 (two years ago) link

ep3 suuuuuuuuucked ;_;

mystery set-up
v
prisoner abuse
v
generic space monster
v
speed-reciting alice in wonderland because it sounds cool, oh wait no it doesn't

Einstein, Bazinga, Sitar (abanana), Monday, 2 October 2017 18:36 (two years ago) link

But the first two eps were exactly like the rebooted movies: more violence, more grim and gritty action scenes

why is Star Trek so cynical and violent what's going on

— Adam H. Johnson (@adamjohnsonNYC) October 2, 2017

dont mean this as a dig but TNG was the only good liberal propaganda–Heroes are essentially imperial middle mgmt but super nice & benevolent

— Adam H. Johnson (@adamjohnsonNYC) October 2, 2017

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 2 October 2017 18:38 (two years ago) link

fitting that rick and morty made fun of the generic monster of the week adventure in the same week.

Einstein, Bazinga, Sitar (abanana), Monday, 2 October 2017 18:57 (two years ago) link

they made the jeffries tubes gigantic so they could fit their big blob monster in them. then akiva goldsman shot it with far shots and wide angles because nothing says confinement terror like wide open spaces.

Einstein, Bazinga, Sitar (abanana), Monday, 2 October 2017 19:05 (two years ago) link

mr veg said something otm - the show is ok but it’s not Star Trek. they say Star Trek words but that’s about all. i’m inclined to agree. if you just watch it as like, a crummy Expanse or something it’s not bad

god the CBS app is garbage though.

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 2 October 2017 19:40 (two years ago) link

yeah it really feels nothing like star trek at this point

Star Trek: Discovery... That This Is Not Actually Star Trek Lol Nerds Psych

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 2 October 2017 19:45 (two years ago) link

you'll make the discovery that...

mh, Monday, 2 October 2017 19:47 (two years ago) link

that is to say, VG otm

mh, Monday, 2 October 2017 19:47 (two years ago) link

Eh I enjoyed this one too, even with its many awkwardnesses, although I hope Jason Isaacs's accent gets better.

And let's try and do an episode without an action sequence. No chases no fights no space bugs.

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 2 October 2017 22:29 (two years ago) link

turns out i dont really want space monsters?
i didnt know that til i was given them

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 3 October 2017 01:07 (two years ago) link

this sounds stupid, think I'll pass. too bad as the first trailers looked great and I was intrigued by the cast.

akm, Tuesday, 3 October 2017 03:18 (two years ago) link

Said this on the other thread but I think I like Orville better than this :/ Too much lens flare. Why are the Klingons Spe King So Slow ly. Pacing was weird (havent seen ep3 yet tho tbh).

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 3 October 2017 05:43 (two years ago) link

Dorn apparently had trouble speaking through his fangs, but soldiered through. nu-klingon orthodontia is probably even harder to enunciate with.

Burnham Kirksplaining the brig computer into releasing her felt like a corn kernel of Trek had survived the digestive process.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 October 2017 18:58 (two years ago) link

iirc by trek rules any computer encountering logical contradictions has to destroy itself tho

mookieproof, Wednesday, 4 October 2017 19:38 (two years ago) link

Speaking of corn kernels surviving, did anyone else notice they kept a few old-school sounds? Door openings, certain computer bleeps/comms bleeps?

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 4 October 2017 22:15 (two years ago) link

I only saw it for a moment, but I believe they re-used the red alert graphic from the TMP Enterprise on the Shenzhou.

Spencer Chow, Thursday, 5 October 2017 17:08 (two years ago) link

ah ha, found it:

http://trekcore.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/red-alert-696x354.jpg

Spencer Chow, Thursday, 5 October 2017 17:11 (two years ago) link

Saw ep 3 finally, it was a lot better than the first 2. Still on the fence about all this tho.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Thursday, 5 October 2017 23:28 (two years ago) link

Off the fence, I was done when their new super drive was navigated by tweaking the nipples of an alien dust mite.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Monday, 9 October 2017 10:33 (two years ago) link

Similarly off the STD boat. Humongous, card-carrying Trek dork here, but the oppressive negativity has been a serious turnoff. Troubled at the prospect of an intelligent creature being exploited against its will to power the ship's magical mushroom drive. Burnham looking constipated while crewmates lament "oh well, war" doesn't cut it.

Millsner, Monday, 9 October 2017 11:00 (two years ago) link

The bar I have set is that first season TNG episode where the slug aliens take over starfleet high command and Picard has to trick them and kill them

mh, Monday, 9 October 2017 14:55 (two years ago) link

Conspiracy? If only Discovery were that entertaining!

The parasite infiltration of Starfleet plot never got a follow-up because they morphed into the Borg in the writers' room.

Millsner, Monday, 9 October 2017 14:59 (two years ago) link

The dialogue is awful! "Who just saved us?" was lol bad.

the oppressive negativity has been a serious turnoff

Same. This has had a serious Oedipal complex about proving how much darker and more violent it is than its predecessors, with no charm whatsoever, nor any depth. Plus, the Starfleet officers are so dumb.

Klingon T'Kuvma Why Don't You Love Mah? (Leee), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 06:01 (two years ago) link

The Michelle Yeoh cameo was comforting, a glimpse of what could've been. But the series is intent on killing such nostalgia, and replacing it with movie-quality protection values.

Klingon T'Kuvma Why Don't You Love Mah? (Leee), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 06:07 (two years ago) link

throwing in Elon Musk with Zefram Cochrane, ugh

louise ck (milo z), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 10:36 (two years ago) link

spores must flow

mookieproof, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 02:53 (two years ago) link

yeah i thought michael was an interesting character after the first 2 eps & now she’s as boring as the rest of them. the crew seem extraneous/unimportant which OK WHUT, there’s zero curiosity or starfleet level anything going on here

i really do not know what it is i am watching

spores tho

lotta spores

Star Trek: Spore Wars

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 05:46 (two years ago) link

the kid from my so-called life tho!

mookieproof, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 05:56 (two years ago) link

remember in the 90s when there would be two trek shows airing simultaneously? i think at this point if we ever want that to happen again we have to suck it up and pretend like this is the best show ever made and that cbs all access is a great idea oh if only i could afford it

Flogging Mommy (diamonddave85), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 14:21 (two years ago) link

As it's on Netflix elsewhere in the world, I'm not sure the success (or not*) of CBS All Access is a dealbreaker.

One bad episode in 4 is not a bad strike rate for Trek. Though I'm gonna hold on watching it for a few weeks in the hope things get better.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 14:30 (two years ago) link

* definitely not

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 14:31 (two years ago) link

spore travel would have negated most of TOS, TNG, and all of DS9, VOYAGER -- so it looks like the trajectory points to season finale timeline reset?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:38 (two years ago) link

I think we're going to end up with another Star Trek directive against a particular technology after this goes horribly awry

like, no genetic enhancement technology (KHAAAAAAN!), no time travel (temporal prime directive), no biophysics-based travel

mh, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:55 (two years ago) link

i would imagine if she were aware that the tech existed at some point, janeway would've considered breaking whatever directive against its use. i think maybe discovery and its tech were ultra-top-secret and it wouldn't have been something future starfleet officers would know about

Flogging Mommy (diamonddave85), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:03 (two years ago) link

I'd imagine creating a spore drive is not exactly trivial

mh, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:32 (two years ago) link

you'd have to first turn the saucer section into a turntable.
then you need a DJ.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:34 (two years ago) link

well yeah but it's something i'm sure they'd brainstorm. and since voyager takes place like 100 years later, they might have the technology to make a spore drive in less than 75 years

Flogging Mommy (diamonddave85), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:48 (two years ago) link

they did get mad at that other federation ship that was using hyper-dimensional aliens as super jet fuel.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:52 (two years ago) link

it's just a really big water bear

mh, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:55 (two years ago) link

i'm hoping that the series ends in a humanist "humans, vulcans, klingons, we're all just really big water bears, maaaaaaaaaan"

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 19:02 (two years ago) link

you'd have to first turn the saucer section into a turntable.

This really didn't help me get over my thinking of a pizza slicer every time the ship appeared on screen (and I really like the ship) - I have no idea why revolving is necessary

As to the severe canon violation of this spore thing, I guess at some point all of these spore lifeforms are going to get wiped out, or it'll be mandated that using them as a propulsion system is unethical, or the spores will just turn on people and teleport them into the middle of a star every time they're forced to take anyone anywhere. But before that happens we have to have a character made of spores so it can have awkward conversations with people a la Persis Khambatta in Trek the Motion Picture

Brakhage, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 20:31 (two years ago) link

the entire cast of TNG is actually spores who have taken new forms

mh, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 20:32 (two years ago) link

"You humans ... cannot be everywhere at once? It must be so ... limiting"

Brakhage, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 20:33 (two years ago) link

x mh bwahhhhh hah ha, solves that canon problem then

Brakhage, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 20:34 (two years ago) link

more like star trek human after all amirite

Einstein, Bazinga, Sitar (abanana), Friday, 13 October 2017 09:34 (two years ago) link

The tardigrade breakdown just to let them go all Minority Report with their screen technology was seriously eye-roll inducing, still not as bad as the Clockwork Orange scene.

I'm watching CBS's new Navy SEAL show (as long as I'm borrowing a CBS All Access login...) and Discovery feels more similar to that than it does any prior Star Trek.

louise ck (milo z), Monday, 16 October 2017 04:29 (two years ago) link

tardigrade warp "able to materialize anywhere in the universe" = warp 10, making this the second time warp 10 has been connected to animals

Einstein, Bazinga, Sitar (abanana), Monday, 16 October 2017 07:23 (two years ago) link

In the new episode I counted them saying "DNA" 6 times which is voyager levels of technobabble. still, best episode yet.

Einstein, Bazinga, Sitar (abanana), Monday, 16 October 2017 08:29 (two years ago) link

The spore drive tech is very Dune like. Spores = spice?

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Monday, 16 October 2017 10:01 (two years ago) link

This show is officially bad, quantitatively speaking.

(I'm not a robot.) (Leee), Monday, 16 October 2017 17:55 (two years ago) link

I ... like this show.

remy bean, Monday, 16 October 2017 18:59 (two years ago) link

Quantitatively speaking == there aren't enough episodes? But qualitatively it's fine?

Mordy, Monday, 16 October 2017 19:01 (two years ago) link

The thing that I found most unbelievable in this one (out of a lot of generally unbelievable things) is that Starfleet would allow their one-of-a-kind, most-top-secret weapon-to-end-wars ship to take what could easily have been a one-way trip behind enemy lines to rescue Captain Ends J. Means

I kept hoping the admiral would say 'yep, consider him dead, we're not endangering the entire course of this war to to save one guy. In fact, if you do come across him, kill him yourself if he can't be extracted'

Brakhage, Monday, 16 October 2017 19:52 (two years ago) link

The mirror sting was pretty boss though

Brakhage, Monday, 16 October 2017 19:56 (two years ago) link

Quantitatively speaking == there aren't enough episodes? But qualitatively it's fine?

Qualitatively this thing has been abysmal since the third episode, we've just got a majority of bad episodes now.

(I'm not a robot.) (Leee), Monday, 16 October 2017 22:19 (two years ago) link

it's good enough that we're still watching it which is really the only relevant criteria for whether a show is good or bad

Mordy, Monday, 16 October 2017 22:22 (two years ago) link

idk, I'm on the verge of hatewatching / praying to Q that it stops being repugnant.

(I'm not a robot.) (Leee), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 00:42 (two years ago) link

I do a see a lot of fan productions being on the dark/militaristic end of the spectrum, to the point that maybe this is what ST's fanbase wants now, and I'd point the finger at DS9 being the turning point.

Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 20:59 (two years ago) link

Love this more than any Trek since I camped out at the St. Paul campus commons to watch Next Gen in the '90s.

I think the utopian radicalism is still there, just pressed against hard times and reluctant to speechify, which feels appropriate on both counts. The direction/action/FX make the battles as scary as they are striking, and I think the romantic plot and Elephant Man voices of the Klingons oddly give them more humanity than previous incarnations—they're still camp, just more enjoyably so. I love the silent shots, how each show starts with what feels like a cold open that just keeps going, the tense dialogue in suspenseful situations that packs as much evocative meaning as the original series but without underlining itself (sometimes orders must be disobeyed, sometimes monsters aren't, sometimes shame interferes with repair), and stays with me after the plot particulars fade. I like that the show includes a character with autism, but love the suggestion that she still has trouble fitting into this flawed utopia, and that the moral standard of the 23rd Century—and the leading role—may be held by someone other than the Captain.

Peter Scholtes, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 22:28 (two years ago) link

appreciate the enthusiasm, Peter

mh, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 03:15 (two years ago) link

Girlfriend (not a natural trekkie) loved Voyager and is loving this and so am I.

Popture, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 11:26 (two years ago) link

i can understand the reluctance of a star trek show being produced today to fully embrace the series' 'utopian radicalism' (great phrase btw peter) in favour of darker moral shades but i just don't understand why you'd choose to set it within a few years of the original series' swashbuckling optimism, where the clash of tones is going to be the most jarring

like, wouldn't it make more sense, and have more potential for drama, to set it years past tng/ds9/voyager? if you wanted to push past roddenberry's 'no personal conflict' rule like this show does, there's a million interesting stories you could tell. like, every human organisation in history has faltered and fallen eventually - wouldn't it be interesting to ask what would make a future starfleet wobble on its axis and threaten to collapse? what would save it?

anyway, enough fan fiction - it just really bugs me that they're trying to squeeze a morally-compromised star trek story into a place where it doesn't quite fit imo

midas / medusa cage match (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 11:51 (two years ago) link

we find out why they have all these rules and directives: the federation of the original series was built on top of a stack of dead bodies

mh, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 13:42 (two years ago) link

bizzaro, I think that, from a studio's perspective, a post-TNG/DS9/Voyager show wouldn't be able draw in the civilian/non-Trekkie viewership. Kirk/Spock are so much well-established in American pop culture, Picard memes aside.

(I am a robot.) (Leee), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 17:17 (two years ago) link

i thought one of the seasons was intended to take place in that era?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 17:41 (two years ago) link

I counted them saying "DNA" 6 times which is voyager levels of technobabble

at least they didn't bother trying to explain how they tracked down the kidnapped lorca

mookieproof, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 17:43 (two years ago) link

i thought one of the seasons was intended to take place in that era?

they dropped the anthology conceit. One of the reasons Fuller left

Number None, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 20:59 (two years ago) link

bizarro otm, this feels more like dark timeline DS9 than post-Kirk

i think the timeline setting is the biggest mis-step. this would work better in a later period.
with all the egos & sarcasm & unpleasantness it’d work better not being Star Trek at all imo
but that’s just me.

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 19 October 2017 04:43 (two years ago) link

super interested in space toothbrushes tho

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 19 October 2017 04:49 (two years ago) link

I can see an artistic argument for going a different, new direction... but I dunno, that's not the appeal of Trek TV to me.

louise ck (milo z), Thursday, 19 October 2017 06:36 (two years ago) link

super interested in space toothbrushes tho

― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 19 October 2017 3:49 PM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I was wondering what they were doing with those prostate massagers.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Thursday, 19 October 2017 07:58 (two years ago) link

super interested in space toothbrushes tho

you should check out this show called battlestar galactica

mookieproof, Thursday, 19 October 2017 12:58 (two years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s77l5ti2ATk

Flogging Mommy (diamonddave85), Thursday, 19 October 2017 16:32 (two years ago) link

Simultaneously impressed and repelled.

Spencer Chow, Thursday, 19 October 2017 17:27 (two years ago) link

wish they'd gone with my title, star trek: tardigrading on a curve

mark s, Thursday, 19 October 2017 17:28 (two years ago) link

lol mookie

xp

Οὖτις, Thursday, 19 October 2017 17:33 (two years ago) link

This last episode is so much better! I still have a lot reservations about how badly amateurish SF seems to be right now, but I'm *hoping* that now that Michael's gotten back onto the bridge, that we'll avoid the relentless grimness. Her mentoring Tilly is a refreshing development.

Obviously the show is pushing Michael and Ash into a relationship, which is going to be a source of consternation once Ash is exposed to Lorca's tribble.

Klingons continue to be one-dimensional -- so far I hate them. (They were at least TWO-dimensional on TOS, TNG, and DS9.)

I think the utopian radicalism is still there, just pressed against hard times and reluctant to speechify, which feels appropriate on both counts. The direction/action/FX make the battles as scary as they are striking, and I think the romantic plot and Elephant Man voices of the Klingons oddly give them more humanity than previous incarnations—they're still camp, just more enjoyably so. I love the silent shots, how each show starts with what feels like a cold open that just keeps going, the tense dialogue in suspenseful situations that packs as much evocative meaning as the original series but without underlining itself (sometimes orders must be disobeyed, sometimes monsters aren't, sometimes shame interferes with repair), and stays with me after the plot particulars fade. I like that the show includes a character with autism, but love the suggestion that she still has trouble fitting into this flawed utopia, and that the moral standard of the 23rd Century—and the leading role—may be held by someone other than the Captain.

Lots of interesting points -- I disagree with how you characterize the Klingons, they're drained of camp IMO as they've been painted as the abject Other (eating Georgiou (my god) sort of changes the stakes). I do like your suggestion that Discovery isn't centering its morality around the Captain, but Lorca has been terrible simply as a character.

(I am a robot.) (Leee), Monday, 23 October 2017 22:24 (two years ago) link

I don't like this show when it's trying to be the Marily Manson of Trek.

(I am a robot.) (Leee), Monday, 23 October 2017 22:35 (two years ago) link

I wonder who came up with the DISCO shirts?

Philip Nunez, Monday, 23 October 2017 22:44 (two years ago) link

CBS really didn’t allocate enough resources to their streaming service when it comes to Star Trek. The stream was a complete disaster live last night! I thought it was maybe just me but a few friends confirmed.

mh, Monday, 23 October 2017 22:45 (two years ago) link

so was the vulcan haircut just a terrible fashion that happened to coincide with first contact and a while after, or do they have to grow it like that for like logico-physiological reasons

mark s, Monday, 23 October 2017 22:47 (two years ago) link

Yes on that note why did Michael have a vulcan haircut in her past but now shes just grown it all out.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Monday, 23 October 2017 23:20 (two years ago) link

Sarek took her to a federation hair stylist on the way to her new job instead of the barber back home

mh, Monday, 23 October 2017 23:26 (two years ago) link

I think that was a signifier that her relationship with Yeoh had 'humanized' her

I do like that the first hour or so of the show establishes Trek-as-we-know-it: admirable captain with a familial relationship with her second in command, wacky and idiosyncratic yet endearing crew members, complete adherence to an Enlightenment-derived worldview, etc. This is destroyed as soon as it's introduced in favor of ends-justify-means warmaking and crew members who are seething masses of aggression, bile, and trauma. Paradoxically Michael, the destroyer, is now the only person who seems to remember what the values of prewar Starfleet are, and the viewer after despising her for killing what was familiar now has to root for her as the last living exemplar of what the show 'wants' to be

Brakhage, Tuesday, 24 October 2017 00:10 (two years ago) link

I do not have a book contract, I'm just really pedantic after a couple of beers

Brakhage, Tuesday, 24 October 2017 00:11 (two years ago) link

This is an example of screenwriters getting better with the demands of writing reboots. They could have jumped straight in to the 'dark, gritty' Trek, but they knew they had to introduce it in 'classic' mode to walk the viewer through the transition. In theory it's a great idea, I just think the Yeoh relationship needed more time to breathe. Each scene with the two of them had so many character points to hit, and it had to hit them in quick succession. One flashback to Michael's arrival to show the development and history of the relationship wasn't enough to really make it hurt when Yeoh was offed

Brakhage, Tuesday, 24 October 2017 00:18 (two years ago) link

Next on Discovery: This is not your father's Star Trek time loop!

louise ck (milo z), Tuesday, 24 October 2017 02:18 (two years ago) link

http://www.cbr.com/star-trek-discovery-theory-voq-ash/

Hope it's misdirection that Ash is played as kind of shady.

louise ck (milo z), Tuesday, 24 October 2017 07:04 (two years ago) link

DISCO t-shirt is tempting.

Spencer Chow, Tuesday, 24 October 2017 23:38 (two years ago) link

disco! disco disco!

just what I have running through my head every time I see them in the shirts, although I'm trying to place the sample

mh, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 13:40 (two years ago) link

there's something wrong with ash -- perhaps someone has put creatures in his body to make him tell lies? -- but him being voq would be enormously bullshit

liked this ep the best so far. probably not a coincidence that it didn't have much klingon content

mookieproof, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:03 (two years ago) link

could he be an augment virus descendant? I can't remember the timelines

stet, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:53 (two years ago) link

I think that if A = V, then maybe they were able to download the real A's memories into V to better impersonate him.

(I am a robot.) (Leee), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 18:58 (two years ago) link

liked this ep the best so far. probably not a coincidence that it didn't have much klingon content

co-sign!

(I am a robot.) (Leee), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 18:58 (two years ago) link

Burnham mentioning "Constitution class, like The Enterprise" was so tantalizing. Will they show it? What will it look like?

Spencer Chow, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 20:01 (two years ago) link

Also, I'm probably not going to order that shirt because of the TM on Disco. Why would that be on the real shirt in the show???

Spencer Chow, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 20:10 (two years ago) link

it's most definitely not the shirt that was shown in the show

mh, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 20:15 (two years ago) link

Constitution class Enterprise, according to Discovery:
http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/additional/large/dea2_enterprise_pizza_cutter_inuse.jpg

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 20:17 (two years ago) link

I have always hated how that thing has no guard to protect your hand!

Spencer Chow, Thursday, 26 October 2017 00:39 (two years ago) link

This was a great episode. Extremely predictable - every plot beat involving the admiral I'd seen coming long before - but still great because of how well Isaacs is carrying this very, very flawed character. Now that the admiral's out of the way, looking forward to seeing the Starfleet sharks move in looking to depose Lorca

Agreed that Ash is way too easy, there's some reveal waiting there. He's not Voq but something is up

So, what, the Enterprise has athletic shirts that say E N T E R ?

Brakhage, Saturday, 28 October 2017 03:28 (two years ago) link

While I'm gushing let me give a shoutout to the DP and the CGI folks, every frame of this show is exquisitely beautiful

Brakhage, Saturday, 28 October 2017 03:32 (two years ago) link

first episode with ash was highly suspicious -- lorca plants a word in his vocabulary, gets it replayed by his captor, then concludes mudd is the spy because mudd was listening in? i think it was intentionally crap.

Einstein, Bazinga, Sitar (abanana), Saturday, 28 October 2017 05:08 (two years ago) link

I like this guy's videos, he throws out some possible alternative theories about Ash:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syOt1ntFBJs

So, what, the Enterprise has athletic shirts that say E N T E R ?

LOL, then DS9 would have D E E P S tees.

Potato Wave (Leee), Sunday, 29 October 2017 19:48 (two years ago) link

Would purchase

Brakhage, Sunday, 29 October 2017 19:55 (two years ago) link

Despite its obvious inspiration from Edge of Tomorrow and "Cause and Effect" (and the fact that the episode ultimately ignores the rules it sets out in the beginning), this was a lot of fun. This show needs to maintain a light feel -- when it does dark, it's terrible.

Potato Wave (Leee), Monday, 30 October 2017 17:35 (two years ago) link

we bailed halfway through the new episode

i just don’t enjoy it and i am getting more and more annoyed that they called it Star Trek when it has so little to do with that world ... i can’t get past it

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 30 October 2017 18:07 (two years ago) link

hey hey ds9 already has canon in-universe merch

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/8/8a/Niners-uniforms.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20070323010702&path-prefix=en

Philip Nunez, Monday, 30 October 2017 18:58 (two years ago) link

one-off mindfuck episode was a good choice around now. not a patch on tng's cause and effect though. kind of a shame that they have to make every episode a michael burnham episode, because the plot was centered around stamets.

didn't really need a grimdark device that makes you die in the most painful way possible.

Einstein, Bazinga, Sitar (abanana), Monday, 30 October 2017 21:13 (two years ago) link

do you still have to pay for the cbs app to watch this?

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Monday, 30 October 2017 21:14 (two years ago) link

the lack of klingons improved the episode. none of that time-wasting trash.

ending monologue was awful. "sometimes you need to step out of the routine" uggggggh

Einstein, Bazinga, Sitar (abanana), Monday, 30 October 2017 21:21 (two years ago) link

you only have to pay cbs if you don't know about bittorrent

Einstein, Bazinga, Sitar (abanana), Monday, 30 October 2017 21:25 (two years ago) link

I love Tilly so much

louise ck (milo z), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 00:20 (two years ago) link

I rewatched the last episode before the current one and paused for a second at the "eugenics experiment" line before realizing, holy shit, they just casually violated the Federation's directive on eugenics with this warp drive thing, for real. Can't wait to see some more fun freakouts from our resident spore man.

mh, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 14:33 (two years ago) link

isco! disco disco!

just what I have running through my head every time I see them in the shirts, although I'm trying to place the sample

LOL I think I know the song you mean, at least I know it in a song with loads of horns and funky backbeat... maybe bronx dogs or something.

Why were people thinking Ash is suspicious? IDGI.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 23:02 (two years ago) link

avalanches 'close to you'?

lorca's argument for ruling ash out as a spy is invalid
the name of voq's actor is not a real person

Einstein, Bazinga, Sitar (abanana), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 23:29 (two years ago) link

Also:

Voq was supposed to lose "everything," which being turned into Ash would satisfy, presumably.
We haven't seen Voq since Ash debuted.
We saw a Tribble in Lorca's ready room, and Tribbles are Klingon detectors -- Chekhov's Gun.

Potato Wave (Leee), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 00:18 (two years ago) link

He knows Klingon fighting moves, was a captive of theirs for way too long, was clearly passing info from conversations to the Klingons. Voq was convinced to go train with the Klingon spies in a prior episode.

I think it’s just as likely the producers planted the fake actor details as a trail of suspicion and all those points are to throw us on a fake trail, though

mh, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 02:10 (two years ago) link

Oh ok all this time I was "who tf is Voq". The albino klingon? I think that whole storyline kind of went over my head tbh haha. I find the horrible subtitle font hard to follow so I zone out.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 02:29 (two years ago) link

they should have put it in Papyrus to really make me tune out

mh, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 02:38 (two years ago) link

I'm definitely leaning towards this theory as misdirection at this point, the writers aren't satisfied with one twist, they're aiming for a twist on a twist.

Potato Wave (Leee), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 06:44 (two years ago) link

His actions don’t really make sense to me in this last episode if he’s a secret Klingon. Surely no intel is worth more than the spore drive.

Mordy, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 12:47 (two years ago) link

disco! disco disco!

just what I have running through my head every time I see them in the shirts, although I'm trying to place the sample

This one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_kyz6_UagA

groovypanda, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 12:54 (two years ago) link

xp long game, he'll show his stripes once he's arranged a few accidents and is commander of the science fleet

mh, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 14:06 (two years ago) link

i just don’t enjoy it and i am getting more and more annoyed that they called it Star Trek when it has so little to do with that world ... i can’t get past it

Hey I enjoyed this last episode more than 90% of Voyager episodes that I've seen!

Potato Wave (Leee), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:55 (two years ago) link

Yeah I thought the timeloop thing was very trek!

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 23:33 (two years ago) link

no Q people, thankfully

mh, Thursday, 2 November 2017 01:31 (two years ago) link

After some iffy episodes, the last three were all very solid. I'm enjoying watching the characters/acting/writing evolve and find their sweet spots. It's clearly better than Voyager and Enterprise at this point.

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 2 November 2017 15:59 (two years ago) link

I am surprised that the last 2 episodes were made by the same crew that made the early ones. Much better -- but why did they make the early ones so badly?

Einstein, Bazinga, Sitar (abanana), Thursday, 2 November 2017 16:27 (two years ago) link

They don't know how to depict an antagonistic alien race well?

Potato Wave (Leee), Thursday, 2 November 2017 19:28 (two years ago) link

Yeah the Klingons are the weak spot
t
And I don't really like the production design... somehow it looks cheaper than TNG even though the effects are 6000% better.

But I'm really enjoying it and so are my Trekkie family. The supporting cast are growing on me - it's the "gang" sensibility that's the most important part of Star Trek to me, rather than the continuity or relative lightness/darkness/whatnot

Also the last two eps were fucking dorky as hell which is exactly how I like my Trek

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 2 November 2017 21:59 (two years ago) link

remanding a dude who just killed you 60 times over to the custody of his prospective father-in-law is indeed dorky as hell

mookieproof, Friday, 3 November 2017 00:13 (two years ago) link

Even if it doesn't feel Star Trekky, I'm getting into it. A big part of the non-Trek feel is stuff like Tilly's convos with Michael and Michael's feelings toward Ash that previous shows never dealt with in the same way - it feels more modern and personal in that sense.

louise ck (milo z), Friday, 3 November 2017 01:15 (two years ago) link

the klingons are tedious, lorca is insanely over-the-top and suru is mostly annoying (though i guess he gets his this weekend). i like tilly in small doses and stamets in slightly larger doses

i suppose i keep watching because burnham/martin-green are awesome, apart from the voiceovers/monologues. her predicament isn't entirely reasonable, but it's interesting, and i hope they don't wreck it

mookieproof, Friday, 3 November 2017 02:42 (two years ago) link

Tilly is awful. xoxo

jamiesummerz, Friday, 3 November 2017 12:36 (two years ago) link

If we really do get a season 2, I might revisit this.

Millsner, Friday, 3 November 2017 15:33 (two years ago) link

Already renewed.

Spencer Chow, Friday, 3 November 2017 16:05 (two years ago) link

In spite of all the p!racy? That's impressive.

Potato Wave (Leee), Friday, 3 November 2017 17:27 (two years ago) link

Yeah, both this and Orville got renewed, didn’t they?

Google Murray Blockchain (kingfish), Friday, 3 November 2017 18:38 (two years ago) link

https://i.imgur.com/rLF9GZl_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
Dorky enough for trek

Philip Nunez, Saturday, 4 November 2017 01:33 (two years ago) link

In Star Trek TOS they broke ground by having non-white Anglo ethnicities on the bridge. We’ve had aliens and androids through theough the other series. Now with Tilly we have regular shaped human beings (later TOS movies notwithstanding)

Still can’t deal with Clem Fandango as head of security or deadmau5 arriving by spacewhale.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Monday, 6 November 2017 10:13 (two years ago) link

I suppose this one was mainly set-up for the next episode? Two things going on, but neither went anywhere interesting.

Einstein, Bazinga, Sitar (abanana), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 04:04 (two years ago) link

i may be an outlier here but i really enjoyed the last two episodes as fun, largely standalone riffs on the TOS/TNG formula.

the klingon scenes are unbelievably silly and incomprehensible and i say that as someone with a high tolerance for 40k style bullshit. so is the starfleet admiral dead now? and the female klingon? what was the point of any of that if so?

oiocha, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 04:24 (two years ago) link

Complaints aside that last one was probably the best so far. It's not often we see a time loop plot from the outside and it was done pretty well. Mud does seem like a classic TOS villain.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 05:27 (two years ago) link

Between this and The Orville I feel like I'm enjoying Star Trek for the first time since TOS.

Thomas Gabriel Fischer does not endorse (aldo), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 10:13 (two years ago) link

DISCO has shown it has potential, at least. No longer a hatewatch for me.

Einstein, Bazinga, Sitar (abanana), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 21:01 (two years ago) link

I actually really enjoyed the last episode as well! Even the Klingon scenes weren't terrible -- I'm kind of curious what's going to happen to L'Rell.

Drunk Leeemoda (Leee), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 21:13 (two years ago) link

I am really enjoying this unreservedly now. There are lots of callbacks to TOS, but it doesn't just seem like recycling. I *really* like Saru's race's origin story. The show also strikes a nice balance thus far between episode and serial and although I'd prefer pure episodes as that kind of world offers more possibilities , I know entertainment has changed. One weird thing is Burnham's height. As Sasha on TWD and as Burnham, Martin-Green WALKS TALL, so it's always surprising to see her so short next to Saru and Ash (who are tall).

Spencer Chow, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 21:53 (two years ago) link

I read somewhere that sets on films are usually built 90% of scale, too, so the actors loom larger. I want to go back now and see if he's always ducking his head getting into elevators. There are some fairly recent SF books featuring a prey species developing a civilization, I wonder which ones of those the runners have read.

I like how the writers are indulging in some Westworldesque fucking with expectations - I thought that of course the 'I want to defect' bit would turn out to be a ruse, for it to be genuine I didn't see coming. There's some long game that's hard to see underneath those giant rubber heads (how painful must those contact lenses be). The legalese surrounding the not-yet-Prime Directive is interesting too

Brakhage, Thursday, 9 November 2017 16:53 (two years ago) link

I thought that of course the 'I want to defect' bit would turn out to be a ruse, for it to be genuine I didn't see coming.

I'm not convinced she really wants to defect! She hates Kol for sure, but she's a spy and pretending to defect would give her so much access to Starfleet.

Entree 3000 (Leee), Thursday, 9 November 2017 18:24 (two years ago) link

Didn't like the last episode - too much too fast, all three plots needed more room IMO.

louise ck (milo z), Friday, 10 November 2017 00:27 (two years ago) link

She hates Kol for sure, but she's a spy and pretending to defect would give her so much access to Starfleet.

if she really wanted to defect, she could have just gone with lorca/ash rather than take a phaser disruptor to the face

she's also much smarter than every other klingon, it would seem. which is more evidence that ash is a time bomb -- letting lorca/ash get away was uncharacteristically half-assed of her

mookieproof, Friday, 10 November 2017 01:27 (two years ago) link

So am I right in thinking that Stamets is actually exchanging places with himself from a parallel ('mirror', if you will) universe/dimension, in which case the spores are not only a method for instantaneous travel but may also be a method of traversing universes - implying that each jump is actually a jump to a different physical point in a different but very similar universe? That seems to be where we're going but if we are it feels too much like a retread of the 2009 film which justified itself as a reboot by starting over in a fresh timeline

Brakhage, Saturday, 11 November 2017 23:11 (two years ago) link

some sort of *engineer voice* organic quantum folding going on here

mh, Saturday, 11 November 2017 23:20 (two years ago) link

My timecubes, let me show you them

Brakhage, Sunday, 12 November 2017 00:48 (two years ago) link

i think it's a retcon for the genetic engineering ban -- suggesting that the engineering is a form of time/dimension travel.

Einstein, Bazinga, Sitar (abanana), Sunday, 12 November 2017 01:17 (two years ago) link

This is post-Khan being out on ice and the admiral did call them out to doing a banned eugenics experiment

mh, Sunday, 12 November 2017 01:18 (two years ago) link

Mid-season finale *sigh* tonight; series resumes Jan. 7.

Entree 3000 (Leee), Sunday, 12 November 2017 17:47 (two years ago) link

So am I right in thinking that Stamets is actually exchanging places with himself from a parallel ('mirror', if you will) universe/dimension, in which case the spores are not only a method for instantaneous travel but may also be a method of traversing universes - implying that each jump is actually a jump to a different physical point in a different but very similar universe? That seems to be where we're going but if we are it feels too much like a retread of the 2009 film which justified itself as a reboot by starting over in a fresh timeline

Intriguing!

Spencer Chow, Sunday, 12 November 2017 22:30 (two years ago) link

Pretty clear that A=V is correct from tonight's episode. Not only in L'Rell's words but also in the tech of the humans being able to mask as Klingons.

Next up, mirror universe arc where they wear VERY shirts.

Einstein, Bazinga, Sitar (abanana), Monday, 13 November 2017 06:13 (two years ago) link

I didn't think about it, but they're going to be in the universe where Michael's preemptive strike plan went into effect, aren't they?

mh, Monday, 13 November 2017 14:57 (two years ago) link

Oh good call, circling back to roads-not-taken plot points from earlier episodes, I hadn't thought of that

This and the Mudd-loop episode is making me wonder just how mindfuck they want to get with the show. If they reveal bf to be a surgically-altered and brainwashed Klingon this whole ride is going to turn into a serious acid trip

Brakhage, Tuesday, 21 November 2017 19:52 (two years ago) link

Who am I kidding, the torture-sex scenes have already sent it over the edge

It would be wild if - assuming they could ever get back to 'their' universe - Discovery instead of a weapon-to-end-wars became the ultimate research vessel, collecting information on how things turn out elsewhere given certain choices. They'd have to rename the ship the A/B Discovery or the USS Choice Architecture

Brakhage, Tuesday, 21 November 2017 19:57 (two years ago) link

Now I'm really wondering why they call the Prime Directive "General Order 1".

Spencer Chow, Tuesday, 21 November 2017 23:06 (two years ago) link

That's what they called it in TOS, IIRC.

Entree 3000 (Leee), Tuesday, 21 November 2017 23:22 (two years ago) link

if tilly is going to be working on starfleet's most important system, she really needs a promotion

even wesley got acting ensign

mookieproof, Wednesday, 22 November 2017 00:08 (one year ago) link

definitely going to get a “Tilly steps up” plot in here somewhere, where she steps up in some dire circumstance and her awkwardness is cast off

mh, Wednesday, 22 November 2017 01:02 (one year ago) link

xpost

Memory Alpha says "General Order 1" is actually from The Animated Series - nice.

Spencer Chow, Wednesday, 22 November 2017 01:11 (one year ago) link

They’ve made other refs to the Animated series, too

Google Murray Blockchain (kingfish), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 06:59 (one year ago) link

one month passes...

Fun episode with one genuine shock (although as they're now in an alternate universe I imagine it will be fairly easy to bring him back)

groovypanda, Tuesday, 9 January 2018 08:38 (one year ago) link

I'm enjoyjng this but a Michael is getting a little boring.

The "shock" was interesting - I would've thought the writers were smarter than that trope, so I'm guessing that's not the end of that story.

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 9 January 2018 09:29 (one year ago) link

I think I should have seen it coming when the episode had me thinking, "Wow, this character is maybe the most empathetic character we've seen in this role on Star Trek, what a great guy"

mh, Tuesday, 9 January 2018 15:28 (one year ago) link

I should have guessed, all spontaneous declarations of love for a partner must be followed by death.

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 9 January 2018 16:17 (one year ago) link

It's a little unnerving to see out of all the spinoffs, Enterprise is the one that is being mined for the most material to weave canon out of. Maybe we'll get to see evil Porthos cameo.

Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 9 January 2018 19:02 (one year ago) link

Ashhole amirite?

Kirk Cobain (Leee), Wednesday, 10 January 2018 03:00 (one year ago) link

It's a little unnerving to see out of all the spinoffs, Enterprise is the one that is being mined for the most material to weave canon out of. Maybe we'll get to see evil Porthos cameo.

Maybe WE'RE the ones in the mirror universe.

Kirk Cobain (Leee), Wednesday, 10 January 2018 03:02 (one year ago) link

no midriff mirror universe uniforms yet so may it’s changed over there

mh, Wednesday, 10 January 2018 03:40 (one year ago) link

It's nice to see Frakes directed this, IMHO his is the first Trek name to have been associated with a good series.

Kirk Cobain (Leee), Wednesday, 10 January 2018 04:08 (one year ago) link

Oops, forgot Nick Meyer.

Kirk Cobain (Leee), Wednesday, 10 January 2018 04:31 (one year ago) link

he went a little overboard on the camera-circling-everyone thing

mookieproof, Wednesday, 10 January 2018 06:05 (one year ago) link

The camera NEVER STOPPED

Static locked down shots don’t exist anymore

Crazy Display Name Haver (kingfish), Wednesday, 10 January 2018 06:36 (one year ago) link

I know the agony booths were in TOS, but the lingering over Lorca's pain felt like another example of the show's being EXTREME and EDGY and GRIMDARK. File it with the most painful way to suicide bomb, the most painful possible gun disintegration, and the warp engine booth that tortures the occupant.

adam the (abanana), Wednesday, 10 January 2018 16:10 (one year ago) link

Similar to a comment made in the RLM vid on Abrams’ approach to the ‘09 reboot. Everything must be HYPERCHARGED.

Crazy Display Name Haver (kingfish), Wednesday, 10 January 2018 16:29 (one year ago) link

I’m curious how a TOS/Constitution-class ship looks rendered in the particular art direction of this show, esp with the lighting.

Here’s what it looked like 15 years ago:

http://www.treksinscifi.com/trekdaily/pictures/2010-04-23_Defiant.jpg

Crazy Display Name Haver (kingfish), Wednesday, 10 January 2018 16:32 (one year ago) link

the lingering over Lorca's pain felt like another example of the show's being EXTREME and EDGY and GRIMDARK

Yeah, you'd think that the show would've outgrown its Oedipal impulses by now, but maybe they feel that a midseason premiere required them to reassert the GRIMDARK.

Similar to a comment made in the RLM vid on Abrams’ approach to the ‘09 reboot. Everything must be HYPERCHARGED.

I think with JJ, he may have been overcompensating because he wasn't that familiar with Trek prior to getting the franchise.

Kirk Cobain (Leee), Wednesday, 10 January 2018 19:19 (one year ago) link

Next step in L'Rell's master plan: get Burnham's answers to her security questions.

Kirk Cobain (Leee), Wednesday, 10 January 2018 19:20 (one year ago) link

some viewers were upset that the asian captain gets killed/the black woman gets court martialed/the female admiral gets tortured/the gay guy gets killed*/etc., so it seems only fair that the white guy gets a little agony booth

mookieproof, Wednesday, 10 January 2018 19:31 (one year ago) link

he does have the pre-existing messed up vision. definitely a problem in the terran empire, where insurance is absolutely brutal

mh, Wednesday, 10 January 2018 19:38 (one year ago) link

I’m curious how a TOS/Constitution-class ship looks rendered in the particular art direction of this show, esp with the lighting.

maybe aztec'd like this:
http://deg3d.biz/posts/deg3D_NCC-1701_112.jpg

and lit like this:
http://deg3d.biz/desktops_art_SOMS.html

Spencer Chow, Wednesday, 10 January 2018 21:01 (one year ago) link

whoops:
http://deg3d.biz/images/deg3D_TOS.5_E_SOMS_1956.jpg

Spencer Chow, Wednesday, 10 January 2018 21:02 (one year ago) link

There was a 3d wireframe of one on the show this week that had a kink in the engine struts, but otherwise looked similar.

Spencer Chow, Wednesday, 10 January 2018 21:03 (one year ago) link

https://imgur.com/a/zc0K1

Spencer Chow, Wednesday, 10 January 2018 21:07 (one year ago) link

guh

Spencer Chow, Wednesday, 10 January 2018 21:07 (one year ago) link

https://i.imgur.com/jKQCGnV.jpg

Spencer Chow, Wednesday, 10 January 2018 21:08 (one year ago) link

Yeah, thats what made me think of it. Every other ship in the show is “darkshiney” as it were, so I’m wondering what they’ll do to the usual battleship grey exterior

Crazy Display Name Haver (kingfish), Wednesday, 10 January 2018 21:55 (one year ago) link

So I guess everyone who predicted the Ash thing was right eh?

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 16 January 2018 22:52 (one year ago) link

(awesome episode btw)

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 16 January 2018 22:53 (one year ago) link

Sarek was right there! How could have scanned the dude after he freaked out!

Crazy Display Name Haver (kingfish), Tuesday, 16 January 2018 22:53 (one year ago) link

Yeah that occurred to me as well! But I guess there was more urgent "hey dont kill us" standoff going on.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 16 January 2018 23:05 (one year ago) link

a mind meld can be dangerous

scoff walker (diamonddave85), Tuesday, 16 January 2018 23:05 (one year ago) link

I honestly didnt see the 'how they got the data' trick coming at all either, so that pleased me a lot.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 16 January 2018 23:05 (one year ago) link

I think generally a mind meld is pretty risky if the other party isn’t willing, so it’d be a bad idea

mh, Tuesday, 16 January 2018 23:23 (one year ago) link

Spock was pretty cavalier about melding with anything that moves.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 02:43 (one year ago) link

first mind meld episode had it be dangerous. afterwards they did it willy nilly.

adam the (abanana), Wednesday, 17 January 2018 04:22 (one year ago) link

Willy nilly...Tilly...Killy?! This is a clue!

Crazy Display Name Haver (kingfish), Wednesday, 17 January 2018 07:05 (one year ago) link

Best episode yet. Hopefully a sign of whatever shift the show underwent.

Spencer Chow, Thursday, 18 January 2018 23:49 (one year ago) link

I wonder if there were a bunch of Klingon segments planned for each episode that they just cut out.

adam the (abanana), Friday, 19 January 2018 04:09 (one year ago) link

i'm such a newbie trekkie that i didn't realize that the depiction of the empire was canon. i thought it was something disco came up with. welp, off to watch the two ENT episodes i skipped

scoff walker (diamonddave85), Friday, 19 January 2018 15:32 (one year ago) link

In my head Yesterday's Enterprise is a mirror universe episode, I only just realised it's a regular old parallel universe

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 19 January 2018 15:49 (one year ago) link

they have some common structure, the biggest reveal is "so who is the Emperor THIS time?"

mh, Friday, 19 January 2018 16:01 (one year ago) link

Man, I thought this episode was kind of a dud. None of the people who were supposed to be menacing or dangerous came off that way. Also, the episode felt overburdened with Burnham (overburnhamed?) -- I actually got tired of hearing SMG's voice, especially when she was playing Evil Mirror her.

I thought that two SF guards would still be easy for a Klingon-reduced-to-a-human to overpower.

Faceless Emperor didn't stay faceless for long!

Was Burnham's original plan on the rebel planet to stick around for the hour to make sure that they were able to evac, under the guise that she's still infiltrating, then explain that when Ashhole got activated, they couldn't stay on the surface any longer and HAD to return to the Shengzhou. Did they just not mention it onscreen? That would've made a lot more sense than just beaming out and hoping that she'd be able to keep her crew from firing on the planet. Though I guess that would've meant that Burnham and Tyler would've been smoked when Faceless Emperor swoops in and razes the planet.

I'm glad that Stamets at some level gets to be coherent again -- I was worried that Anthony Rapp would spend a lot more time being semi-catatonic.

I'll admit to being tickled by Sarek's goatee.

I mean, uh, you know what I mean.

Kirk Cobain (Leee), Friday, 19 January 2018 19:09 (one year ago) link

This episode had a twist that some people had guessed, but it was never a sure thing like v=a. The show's been playing the long game, with dumb shit from early episodes starting to pay off.

adam the (abanana), Monday, 22 January 2018 16:13 (one year ago) link

I do complain that they revealed the twist as soon as the clues were all in place. They could have stretched that out.

adam the (abanana), Monday, 22 January 2018 16:14 (one year ago) link

I've tired of shows that have held plot twists just out of reach until they're just a disappointment when all the cards hit the table

get that shit out there, make the characters and the shows writers deal with it all constructively, imo

mh, Monday, 22 January 2018 16:23 (one year ago) link

It would be an interesting meta-twist if it turns out the entire series is meant to be an alternate or redundant timeline, meaning the writers had total narrative freedom the entire time.

Philip Nunez, Monday, 22 January 2018 16:42 (one year ago) link

The twist wouldn't have to be a multi-episode stretch. A commercial break would have been enough.

adam the (abanana), Monday, 22 January 2018 17:22 (one year ago) link

Yeah, liked this twist. The A=V one was kind of botched because some guy guessed it after about two episodes and it was all over the internet and then they basically spelled it out to viewers anyway before the big (messy) reveal.

This one was more of a straight up shock and we now have three episodes left for it to play out.

groovypanda, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 08:38 (one year ago) link

I completely blanked yesterday when I wrote that previous comment. I only saw this week's episode last night after writing it, and I'll still stand by it, but I give the show credit for setting up a more-obvious twist (fake actor name, telltale signs and flashbacks) masking a more subtle one that was right in front of our faces the whole time, then just dropping that bomb in one episode

mh, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 15:39 (one year ago) link

that is, I think they "botched" it in such a way that everyone would talk about that twist even though it's a red herring

mh, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 15:42 (one year ago) link

I could do with to the show never having a Shyamalanesque twist in to the first place.

Joanna NEU!some (Leee), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 20:10 (one year ago) link

Yeah, to paraphrase something FilmCritHulk wrote, clarity is far more effective than this mystery box/twisty bullshit

Crazy Display Name Haver (kingfish), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 22:52 (one year ago) link

Good twist IMO - wasn't expecting it at all - even though Fringe pulled almost exactly the same twist about five years ago.

I like how Yeoh is turning into Disovery's Shatner - wooden delivery, huge charisma.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 00:18 (one year ago) link

john noble would be a good trek guest star

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 01:08 (one year ago) link

Wait are we all trying not to spoiler... which twist do we mean now, the er... whos who in the parallel universe one in ep12?

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 05:29 (one year ago) link

kind of

mh, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 14:47 (one year ago) link

SPOILER ALERT:

So are we going to meet the presumed dead Terran Burnham? Also, what about the Prime Lorca???

Spencer Chow, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 17:59 (one year ago) link

they missed an opportunity to show multiple stamets in the mushroom kingdom with varying degrees of beard length as a hairy bar graph showing just how evil the universe is where they're from.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 18:06 (one year ago) link

feel pretty confident we will meet mirror burnham

mookieproof, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 18:10 (one year ago) link

any guesses on hairstyle?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 19:06 (one year ago) link

THE BURNHAM WE KNOW *IS* THE MIRROR BURNHAM WHO REALLY *DID* HUNT DOWN MIRROR LORCA

scoff walker (diamonddave85), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 19:22 (one year ago) link

god i hope that's not the case

scoff walker (diamonddave85), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 19:23 (one year ago) link

mirror Burnham was Lorca's pawn, it sounds like? to the extent he didn't just groom her as a protege, they were ~involved~

I'm not even convinced there is a non-mirror Lorca we'll ever see. If there was one, mirror Lorca probably merked him

mh, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 19:57 (one year ago) link

so many burning questions and they're all-new after this episode and pertinent!

mh, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 19:58 (one year ago) link

prime lorca runs a tribble rescue / sanctuary and matches them with bajoran refugees as support-tribbles.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:21 (one year ago) link

I was trying to remember whether someone (non-mirror Michelle Yeoh? the admiral?) had remarked back near the beginning on Lorca's eye problems being new, or whether I just retrospectively imagined that

also, hello, I have only just got caught up enough to read the thread, even with the big gap in the middle. for some reason I've been enjoying it more post-mirrorverse though I do have some reservations abt the mirrorverse direction

(1. the "like Star Trek, only dark, how post-modern and clever" vibe
2. the feeling that Mirror Universe is not real and they may never make their way back - certainly ducks a lot of "why did we never hear about this tech / person in the other series" qs - and so I feel weirdly like it doesn't count, even though duh none of it's real and I've only ever been the most casual of Trek viewers and not personally super invested in the canonical Trek universe
on the plus side, fewer interminable phlegmy Klingon cutscenes)

a passing spacecadet, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:37 (one year ago) link

yeah, my appreciation of the show has an inverse correlation with the number of klingon scenes, and i find the ash/voq thing absurd

waiting for them to be saved by mirror-harry mudd tho

mookieproof, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:45 (one year ago) link

that is an idea that sounds... fun? I should be saying horrible but if Mudd zoomed in and did some crazy shit I'd just accept it

mh, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:34 (one year ago) link

I was trying to remember whether someone (non-mirror Michelle Yeoh? the admiral?) had remarked back near the beginning on Lorca's eye problems being new, or whether I just retrospectively imagined that

Yeah thats the point where I sat up and said "hang on", when she commented on "our race" having the eye sensitivity. But I still didnt fully twig till Lorca was all "mwahaha I have fooled you all".

Still not sure i'm on board with this development but eh.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:37 (one year ago) link

explaining that humans (terrans!) in the mirror universe have the sensitivity was a real "wait does that mean... oh no.. wait what? oh NOOOO" moment

and then a moment later I'm thinking "oh YES"

mh, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:42 (one year ago) link

I'm sure someone is currently writing the "10 times it was totally obvious Lorca was from the mirror universe that you didn't notice" thinkpiece right now

mh, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:43 (one year ago) link

The geek sites called this twist a few weeks ago, apparently - although god knows how! It didn't seem at all obvious (to me).

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:00 (one year ago) link

I think Star Trek can handle being a mystery twist show better than being a violent grimdark show. Although TNG was occasionally, hilariously gory.

https://media.giphy.com/media/JubIfQVyCuGZy/giphy.gif

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:03 (one year ago) link

It didn't feel like a twist reveal so much as apologia for capt jack bauer torture museum.

Philip Nunez, Thursday, 25 January 2018 00:02 (one year ago) link

It didn't seem at all obvious

no goatee, no credibility

mookieproof, Thursday, 25 January 2018 00:19 (one year ago) link

this new light sensitivity thing, is it laying the groundwork for mirrorbeards to invade wearing cool protective eyewear?
i guess they could call them... mirrorshades

Philip Nunez, Thursday, 25 January 2018 19:19 (one year ago) link

I'm still really enjoying this, and the last few episodes have made some genuinely ballsy, unpredictable story choices, by Trek standards.

... I wish the execution was better, though! Burnham is still boring and the end of _______'s arc had zero emotional affect. And yet it's still super fun, somehow.

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 21:52 (one year ago) link

I loved the most recent ep. Burnham grabbing [spoiler] just as she beamed out was a great move and I can see it being useful for [spoiler as to where theyve ended up now] for tactical reasons.

Can we spoilertalk or should I wait a few days.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 22:59 (one year ago) link

dunno if it would be spoiler-y, but it seems totally possible to speak about this show purely in terms of previous series or entirely different franchises, darmok style.
like "this episode was very vader and luke at endor."

Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 23:10 (one year ago) link

I didn't like this one. Michael siding with _______ seemed like a bad idea. I thought Michael was smarter than that.

Also, I just played with my phone during the action scenes. Unrealistic action scenes do nothing for me any more.

adam the (abanana), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 23:29 (one year ago) link

what level of unreality should they have been? i think they're missing out on leavening the darkness with some proto-kirkian karate chops and double fisting.

Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 23:42 (one year ago) link

like "this episode was very vader and luke at endor."

LOL that means absolutely nothing to me hahaha.

There was a lot of pew pew pew in this one, thats for sure.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 23:46 (one year ago) link

I was a bit bothered by them giving Phillipa karate moves in her fighting though. Come on, shes Asian but must we do that? No one else karate-kicked anyone.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 23:47 (one year ago) link

I think the phrase "join me; come to the dark side and we'll bring order to the galaxy" or something very much like it was uttered.

Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 23:53 (one year ago) link

xp honestly i didn't even notice that, but it's michelle yeoh, she's known for martial arts movies.
https://youtu.be/Oh8KnmRvqd0?t=1m36s

adam the (abanana), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 23:57 (one year ago) link

yeah the action was actually pretty good and I was left wondering how they pulled off better action/effects than multiple movies in a late season episode

mh, Wednesday, 31 January 2018 00:11 (one year ago) link

but it's michelle yeoh, she's known for martial arts movies.

Well yeah, granted (my bf said the same thing).

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 31 January 2018 00:59 (one year ago) link

TBH I would've been peeved if they never let Michelle Yeoh do Michelle Yeoh stuff!

(I do wish the fight scenes were shot like HK movies instead of the Western-style, heavily edited stuff, but that's another topic.) (Also, the actress who plays Landry looked like GOT's Sand Snakes level bad.) (And speaking of, I've seen talk that the one freed from the Agony Booth in this ep would actually have been from the Prime Universe and that the one we saw get killed by the tardigrade was originally from the MU -- not at all how it turned out, so I guess the PU Landry was a thug anyway?)

I thought most of the episode plot points were kind of rote, but when the [SPOILER] readies to fly in at the [OTHER SPOILER] and fire its photon torpedoes at the McGuffin, I had a physically tense reaction even though my brain knew that everything would turn out OK.

Joanna NEU!some (Leee), Wednesday, 31 January 2018 01:33 (one year ago) link

lol @ all our spoilvoiding sentences.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 31 January 2018 01:58 (one year ago) link

it was surprisingly easy for some dudes to break out of their agonizers and take over, but hey, plot. guess it helps when the emperor kills all her lieutenants just beforehand

I was left wondering how they pulled off better action/effects than multiple movies in a late season episode

i'm generally not too bothered by the quality of special effects but the show looks amazing. (there was one episode in which the director *really* loved zooming the camera in from outer space through the hull, but i forgive her/him)

mookieproof, Wednesday, 31 January 2018 02:06 (one year ago) link

My only complaint was that one ep where they spun the camera around the talking scene over and over til I thought I'd vom. I think someone else said similar upthread.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 31 January 2018 02:09 (one year ago) link

yeah that was riker directing!

mookieproof, Wednesday, 31 January 2018 02:11 (one year ago) link

I noticed Frakes also directed an episode of The Orville recently.

Think Enterprise is the only post TNG one he hasn't had any involvement with.

groovypanda, Wednesday, 31 January 2018 08:06 (one year ago) link

wise

your skeleton is ready to hatch (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 31 January 2018 08:43 (one year ago) link

except when he turned up in the last scene in the last episode!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkecbH6an0w

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 31 January 2018 13:02 (one year ago) link

he was in that ENTire episode

scoff walker (diamonddave85), Wednesday, 31 January 2018 16:53 (one year ago) link

it's been a long rooooooad getting from beard to beard

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 31 January 2018 17:42 (one year ago) link

Was actively guffawing at Lorca's brilliant battle plan of engaging forces in a hallway/shooting gallery when you have less than thirty people at your disposal

Brakhage, Wednesday, 31 January 2018 17:44 (one year ago) link

half the point of the mirror universe seems to be demonstrating how you're the biggest hardman, at all times

mh, Wednesday, 31 January 2018 19:07 (one year ago) link

ROLLING HARDMAN THREAD 2255

mookieproof, Wednesday, 31 January 2018 19:37 (one year ago) link

I didn’t like how dude went from heelturn reveal to complete genocidal maniac in like 15 minutes across two episodes. That seemed a bit much.

Poor Rehka Sharma.

Crazy Display Name Haver (kingfish), Wednesday, 31 January 2018 20:13 (one year ago) link

Also disappointed a certain ship never made an appearance after being alluded to in multiple episodes

Crazy Display Name Haver (kingfish), Wednesday, 31 January 2018 20:16 (one year ago) link

we still have 2(?) episodes left. i'm hoping we still get to see that ship

scoff walker (diamonddave85), Wednesday, 31 January 2018 20:35 (one year ago) link

I was thinking throughout this week's episode that they'd end up setting up Georgiou in a position where Burnham ends up handing her too much power under desperation

but no, they went... the other direction

mh, Monday, 5 February 2018 21:47 (one year ago) link

this episode hurt me in my heart because all I could think was "why couldnt Bablyon 5 have looked this good, this is exactly what Babylon 5 could have been like with a budget, arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhh"

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Monday, 5 February 2018 22:14 (one year ago) link

(as in, this ep reminded me of the earth vs Minbari standoffs and such)

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Monday, 5 February 2018 22:15 (one year ago) link

so i guess they cut the kelpian dinner scene out of the previous episode. thank you censors.

adam the (abanana), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 06:09 (one year ago) link

it was in the version I watched

after that scene where Burnham had to pick a kelpian, the emperor pushes her to try one dish at their dinner and says it’s kelpian brain sashimi

mh, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 13:55 (one year ago) link

It was several eps previous.

Spencer Chow, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 16:28 (one year ago) link

why would the censors cut that scene???

Mordy, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 19:47 (one year ago) link

yikes, I missed that.

given the show, i thought they'd do some sort of foie gras thing or maybe the monkey heads in temple of doom.

adam the (abanana), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 21:39 (one year ago) link

It wasnt gorey or anything, just commented on while they sat at dinner iirc?

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:53 (one year ago) link

not gory in visuals, but in essence...

mh, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:56 (one year ago) link

looked like they were eating lotus root.

Spencer Chow, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:37 (one year ago) link

I was confused by the ending and thought they'd brought back the *original* Girorgiou.

Otherwise, solid episode! Science and problem solving and corridor walking - it felt like the most old school Trek episode so far.

And "my lorca is dead" seemed like a clear cue that he's alive, somewhere.

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:49 (one year ago) link

one’s missing, one is a spore lad now

mh, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:00 (one year ago) link

Namedropping Archer so conspicuously seems like they're itching to bring out Scott Bakula in old-man makeup to give some rousing braveheart speech while porthos softly weeps.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:05 (one year ago) link

like old man Sarek in TNG

Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 08:55 (one year ago) link

that was the worst episode

scoff walker (diamonddave85), Monday, 12 February 2018 17:15 (one year ago) link

i liked the groovy vintage theme during the credits tho

scoff walker (diamonddave85), Monday, 12 February 2018 17:15 (one year ago) link

Well that was one of the weirdest first seasons of a show I’ve ever seen. It started to grow on me after a while even with it making zero sense most of the time.

That said, rolled my eyes hard at the last shot in the finale.

The Spilling of a Sacred Beer (latebloomer), Monday, 12 February 2018 17:29 (one year ago) link

it's settled: clint howard is the throughline that ties all the series together

Philip Nunez, Monday, 12 February 2018 17:34 (one year ago) link

Just realized that it was Evil Lorca who dropped Elon Musk’s name as important space pioneer, suggesting Musk’s prominence in the evil fashy MU

https://www.geekwire.com/2017/star-trek-discovery-elon-musk/

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Monday, 12 February 2018 18:55 (one year ago) link

"Oh, she's not..."
unh-unhh

"So she's from.."
mm-hmm

poor Tilly

mh, Monday, 12 February 2018 18:58 (one year ago) link

Yeah, Tilly bursting out of costume with such effusive excitement in her entrance was a lot of fun.

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Monday, 12 February 2018 20:16 (one year ago) link

she really had a hell of a day, get your hopes up that your captain's back from the dead, then get smoked up by Clint Howard

mh, Monday, 12 February 2018 20:31 (one year ago) link

"I'm very high right now but I'm pretty sure the emperor is trying to blow up this planet"

mh, Monday, 12 February 2018 20:32 (one year ago) link

akiva goldsman: the episode

adam the (abanana), Tuesday, 13 February 2018 01:39 (one year ago) link

that was pretty bad

mookieproof, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 02:16 (one year ago) link

so star fleet doesn't commit genocide, they just threaten to commit genocide huh

adam the (abanana), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 02:25 (one year ago) link

akiva goldsman: the episode

That pretty much says it all.

Been hit with heavy depression the last couple of weeks and over the last couple of days I shotgunned all of Star Trek: Disco (so who is calling it STD?). Powering through the first couple of episodes was a dreadful slog and reminiscent of the terrible Cylon-heavy episodes of nuGalactica, but after that this was.... great.. I was watching four or five episodes a night - the block of mirror universe episodes alone were better than any recent ST movie. Tilly is the best. I hope Michelle Yeoh will have a recurring role in season 2.

Elvis Telecom, Friday, 23 February 2018 05:22 (one year ago) link

The last episode was a little all over the place and underwhelming but overall this series is a blast.

Last episode thoughts:
- Why not just have the Federation say "we can blow up Q'onos"? Seems like more effective bargaining. I guess some Klingon groups wouldn't care and would keep on prosecuting the war regardless.
- WTF did they do to Paris??? Buildings almost on top of the Eiffel Tower? Nothing like what we've seen in TNG etc.
- New/Old Enterprise looks GREAT (and I'm a purist) - although the engine struts should have been straight.

Spencer Chow, Friday, 23 February 2018 16:52 (one year ago) link

three months pass...

Season 2 of Discovery promises just as many shocking revelations of the first, as the showrunners reiterate they want to include the show in more of Star Trek‘s extensive canon.

This is one of the more tiresome aspects of sandbox narratives.

Martin Landau Ballet (Leee), Wednesday, 6 June 2018 00:40 (one year ago) link

one month passes...

lenny kravitz is no beastie boys

adam the (abanana), Saturday, 28 July 2018 13:50 (one year ago) link

four months pass...

Half way through this. Just had the cliffhangar episode devoted to finding a way to detect the klingon's cloaked ships. Half way through, before they've found the solution, a crewman says 'long range scanners detecting a cloaked klingon ship dropping out of warp'. WHAT?

Overall it's a solid crew and cast, passes the bechdel test in spades, Klingon redesign is great, loved the old skool timeloop episode; shame the spore drive central macguffin is such hot garbage.

large bananas pregnant (ledge), Sunday, 23 December 2018 19:06 (ten months ago) link

three weeks pass...

Back today in the UK.

Netflix has also got the Short Treks available now too but they're stupidly hard to find:

If you’re a Star Trek fan, you’ll want to search for “Star Trek: Discovery” and then click for more info. Next to the tab “episodes”, you’ll find another tab called “trailers & more”. Click on this, and then scroll all the way to the right and – SUCCESS! – you’ll find four episodes: Runaway, Calypso, The Brightest Star, and Escape Artist.

groovypanda, Friday, 18 January 2019 09:37 (ten months ago) link

Loved Calypso

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 18 January 2019 12:02 (ten months ago) link

Wow, this was so much better a season opener than with the first season! Feels like proper TV Trek again, with exploration and sense or wonder, not fights and war. And they managed to give almost everyone nice little character moments too. Seems like the pattern they've had with every series since TNG still holds, that they get better after a meh first season... Or at least this ep gave me hope it'll be the case with Discovery too.

Tuomas, Friday, 18 January 2019 16:32 (ten months ago) link

!!! I didn't realise this was already happening.

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 18 January 2019 16:58 (ten months ago) link

Loved the mini-episodes too, especially Calypso, which was apparently co-written by Michael Chabon. The connection to the actual series was flimsy, but nothing wrong in doing proper science fiction in this context.

Tuomas, Friday, 18 January 2019 17:28 (ten months ago) link

Calypso was good. I didn't like any of the others. The last one had the main character being extremely one-note and boring, and that turned out to be the joke? -- not a great idea.

adam the (abanana), Friday, 18 January 2019 17:36 (ten months ago) link

Brightest Star was my fave if only because it gave a nice back story for Saru.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Friday, 18 January 2019 23:43 (ten months ago) link

Tig Notaro was so good and unexpected! And her name is COMMANDER JET RENO!

Fun opener. Enjoyed the contrast between trad Pike and the Disco-ers. Spock incorporated in a surprisingly non-embarrassing way. And that was maybe the least shot-in-Canada-looking Canadian production I've ever seen.

Chuck_Tatum, Saturday, 19 January 2019 00:33 (ten months ago) link

more Jet Reno please

mh, Saturday, 19 January 2019 01:01 (ten months ago) link

I had an especially hard time following the story! It was like an Aaron Sorkin version of Trek: walk-and-talks full of technobabble that were so dense that I felt constantly half a scene behind trying to figure out what everyone was doing.

Oleeever St. John Yogurty (Leee), Sunday, 20 January 2019 05:03 (ten months ago) link

This is a weird complaint to make but they made Tig Notaro’s character too high energy and not droll and dry enough.

Philip Nunez, Sunday, 20 January 2019 15:26 (ten months ago) link

Is this story about how Michael and Spock arent speaking a sly way of back-filling the fact Spock never mentioned having a sister before, I assume?

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 01:24 (nine months ago) link

pretty rude just busting into the personal log

mookieproof, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 01:56 (nine months ago) link

lol I was thinking that too. Sure, just stroll into his quarters and go through his shit.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 05:48 (nine months ago) link

Also the log seems like it was aimed at her? I couldnt tell exactly what happened there but she knew to "throw" it like sand and it made a map... will that be explained later I guess?

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 05:49 (nine months ago) link

She knew to throw and draw it, cos on the log Spock was talking about a dragon of which he had had nightmares as a kid, and as we saw in the flashbacks, Spock was constantly drawing it that way. And the map wasn't just any map, it aligned with the points where Starfleet had detected those weird signals (we saw a map of them earlier), that's why Burnham was amazed by it.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 06:48 (nine months ago) link

Very familiar twist in The Orville this week

groovypanda, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 07:52 (nine months ago) link

I thought the second episode was a lot more fun! Even if some of the places points seemed underbaked.

Thank Q that they've avoided the grim gritty nonsense so far.

Oleeever St. John Yogurty (Leee), Sunday, 27 January 2019 20:45 (nine months ago) link

rip the prime directive

mookieproof, Sunday, 27 January 2019 20:53 (nine months ago) link

Oh yeah, that.

I do have a problem with how easily they're dismissing or
trivializing the Prime Directive; Pike makes noise about how important it is and then Burnham reminds him that the Starfleet orders to investigate the red signals is supposed to be even higher priority, and he goes "oh o good point." I know that they're resting on established continuity from previous shows about the importance of the Prime Directive but the way it's been handled so far seems lazy; the red signals are so information-free and without context that in managing to overrule the PD, they just make the PD seem weaker.

All the same, Tilly was too cute this episode.

Oleeever St. John Yogurty (Leee), Sunday, 27 January 2019 21:14 (nine months ago) link

to be fair, i guess it's relatively early days in the federation and the rules may not have the weight of centuries (or examples of mistakes made) yet. just recently they were willing to completely obliterate the klingon race

besides, all the other captains broke the rules and disobeyed orders constantly, so it's hardly out of character

mookieproof, Sunday, 27 January 2019 21:40 (nine months ago) link

Yeah, the other series usually mention it only to break it. Disco having so few episodes probably magnifies how flimsy it can be as a plot device.

Oleeever St. John Yogurty (Leee), Sunday, 27 January 2019 22:37 (nine months ago) link

I'm surprisingly digging Pike and so far they're nailing the season-arc-to-single-episode-story ratio. "Science mystery" is a much better season arc concept than the space opera stuff last year. I hope they keep it up! Interested to see how they'I'll integrate all the Dark Trek characters from last season (presuming they turn up). Plots are still a bit clumsy but the rest is good enough that I'm no longer caring. The main crew also seem a lot more likeable too.

Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 27 January 2019 22:40 (nine months ago) link

has there ever been a prime directive story that didn't end with it being minutely-to-majorly broken?

Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 27 January 2019 22:41 (nine months ago) link

xp Having to investigate seven signals scattered throughout the galaxy as a season arc seems a lot more conducive to story of the week type episodes

groovypanda, Monday, 28 January 2019 08:54 (nine months ago) link

I do have a problem with how easily they're dismissing or
trivializing the Prime Directive; Pike makes noise about how important it is and then Burnham reminds him that the Starfleet orders to investigate the red signals is supposed to be even higher priority, and he goes "oh o good point." I know that they're resting on established continuity from previous shows about the importance of the Prime Directive but the way it's been handled so far seems lazy; the red signals are so information-free and without context that in managing to overrule the PD, they just make the PD seem weaker.
Wasn't there a TNG episode where Picard broke the prime directive for pretty much the same reason as the Discovery crew here: to prove to a pre-Warp society that the "miracles" they'd witnessed had a scientific explanation? This episode reminded me a lot of that one.

Tuomas, Monday, 28 January 2019 09:59 (nine months ago) link

I'm wondering if the investigation of the signals will continue to chain solutions to problems as an ongoing plot device. They're first led to somewhere where they can pick up a super-heavy asteroid, only to use it in the next episode to tow a radioactive cloud away from a threatened planet? These red angel things seem increasingly Q-like

mh, Monday, 28 January 2019 14:50 (nine months ago) link

Wasn't there a TNG episode where Picard broke the prime directive for pretty much the same reason as the Discovery crew here: to prove to a pre-Warp society that the "miracles" they'd witnessed had a scientific explanation? This episode reminded me a lot of that one.

That sounds like "Who Watches the Watchers," but Picard only resorted to that after a bunch of smaller PD transgressions kept snowballing into a much more serious situation.

Oleeever St. John Yogurty (Leee), Monday, 28 January 2019 18:46 (nine months ago) link

I wish the show gave a reason for why the "red signals" were important. I don't mind them breaking the PD, i just don't understand why mysterious signals justify it.

There was also the TNG episode "Devil's Due", where they expose a false god to a pre-warp society.

adam the (abanana), Monday, 28 January 2019 22:03 (nine months ago) link

I really like this last episode! Michael's interplay with Amanda is wonderful and with one great bit of comedy (when Michael is all "MOOOOOOOMM" when Amanda lets slip that she stole Spock's records). And the Klingon scenes were actually good! Nothing that's never been done before (especially on DS9) but having SOMEONE with forehead ridges not be a complete tosser gives us someone to root for, and the resolution (which isn't all that surprising, admittedly) is straight up Worfian in its quiet, noble suffering.

Stateleee, Plump Buck Mulleeegan (Leee), Saturday, 2 February 2019 07:56 (nine months ago) link

“starfleet security consultant”

mh, Saturday, 2 February 2019 08:10 (nine months ago) link

Yeah, the latest episode was quite good, mostly it was moving all the various subplots ahead a bit, but they're all cool, and lot's of interesting and complex interpersonal moments too. So far the quality of this season seems much more consistent than with the first season, where every cool moment was followed by something ridiculous or stupid.

Tuomas, Saturday, 2 February 2019 11:07 (nine months ago) link

would mindmeld with spock's mom

mookieproof, Saturday, 2 February 2019 23:24 (nine months ago) link

I like how they're drawing out the Spock reveal, since without knowing any other details, I'd have expected him to be on screen no later than the end of the second episode.

Stateleee, Plump Buck Mulleeegan (Leee), Saturday, 2 February 2019 23:30 (nine months ago) link

it seems like good plotting! hoping they pull it off well

mh, Sunday, 3 February 2019 01:38 (nine months ago) link

Theyre really playing up Michael's having done something utterly awful to him to make him disown her though, and I'm worried whatever it ends up being will be a let down?

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Sunday, 3 February 2019 08:03 (nine months ago) link

I'm "meh" on this season so far. It doesn't have anything as bad as the many low points of S1, but so far it also lacks S1's occasional high points. The adventure-of-the-week stuff is better than S1, but still never as focused as it was in TOS and TNG because there's so much serial plotting to deal with. I'll stick with the season and see where it goes.

adam the (abanana), Sunday, 3 February 2019 08:11 (nine months ago) link

Theyre really playing up Michael's having done something utterly awful to him to make him disown her though, and I'm worried whatever it ends up being will be a let down?

― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Sunday, 3 February 2019 08:03 (thirteen hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Thought it was odd that Amanda stormed out before knowing what Michael did, seemingly motivated only by the needs of the plot.

Also, what was fungus hallucination actually after? It/she wanted Stamets to do something.

seandalai, Sunday, 3 February 2019 21:45 (nine months ago) link

That part was hella confusing for a while there!

Also I am really struggling to GAF with the whole Klingon Houses sub plot.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Monday, 4 February 2019 02:58 (nine months ago) link

As to the parasite in Tilly - I think it is angry at Stamets from when they were fucking around with the spore drive jumps and he went into that alternate universe? It saw him as the "captain" of that. I...think!?

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Monday, 4 February 2019 02:59 (nine months ago) link

yeah I think that's right but what did it want to find him for?

seandalai, Monday, 4 February 2019 18:33 (nine months ago) link

it might be trying to make its way home

mh, Monday, 4 February 2019 18:58 (nine months ago) link

Bit of a messy letdown after the first two episodes. I'm not sure if the Klingon story was agreeably metal or just a bit stupid. Although I think we can safely put severed baby heads into the column labelled "not super Star Trekky".

Anyway, if this was just an episode long-excuse to drop the Klingon story and setup the Georgiou's Section 31 spinoff, I'm fine with that.

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 4 February 2019 22:01 (nine months ago) link

Awww @ this, though

https://www.instagram.com/p/BtB_BeLFqh7/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 4 February 2019 22:03 (nine months ago) link

HE TOUCHED THE BEARD. O_O

Stateleee, Plump Buck Mulleeegan (Leee), Monday, 4 February 2019 22:04 (nine months ago) link

lol @ "agreeably metal" I'd forgot about the severed baby head part :/

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Monday, 4 February 2019 22:32 (nine months ago) link

When I stroke the beard, thusly

Dan I., Tuesday, 5 February 2019 02:56 (nine months ago) link

People who don't like each other not having fun. Posted by someone who's not jealous. At all. Or bitter.https://t.co/BmbWx6PjI8#DontReleaseTheAlbum#NoSeriously@SonequaMG @albinokid @actordougjones @may_wise @StarTrekNetflix @startrekcbs @CarpoolKaraoke

— Jason Isaacs (@jasonsfolly) February 5, 2019

groovypanda, Tuesday, 5 February 2019 10:25 (nine months ago) link

Jet Reno!

groovypanda, Friday, 8 February 2019 21:59 (nine months ago) link

so whats with the bearded Vulcan, is he evil?

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 8 February 2019 22:20 (nine months ago) link

Are you talking about the season 2 promos? Because that's (yet another rebooted) Spock.

Stateleee, Plump Buck Mulleeegan (Leee), Friday, 8 February 2019 23:11 (nine months ago) link

This was back to pretty-good-ness again this week!

Could've done with less space blob and more universal translator shenanigans - the show finally comes up with a killer, interesting idea and then fixes it five minutes later.

Tilly/Stamets/JET! are a great threesome tho

Chuck_Tatum, Saturday, 9 February 2019 00:13 (nine months ago) link

i don't really like saru, but i kind of hope he turns into an ice-cold killer now

mookieproof, Saturday, 9 February 2019 23:26 (nine months ago) link

did you watch the short about his journey to starfleet?

mh, Saturday, 9 February 2019 23:39 (nine months ago) link

Ha, he’s prob my favourite regular cast member - he’s the most trad Trekky, well-rounded character, but he does such a great job of emoting through all that latex fish shmutz. I like that they’ve found a new place for him to go, too.

Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 10 February 2019 00:41 (nine months ago) link

“Death” scene went on way, way too long tho

Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 10 February 2019 00:42 (nine months ago) link

these "death of a regular cast member" episodes haven't aged well in the past. everyone knows worf isn't going to kill himself.

I suppose the sentient planet episode in S1 (which was very bad) was set-up for what Saru will become.

adam the (abanana), Sunday, 10 February 2019 01:19 (nine months ago) link

I think I missed something what was the lie that Saru mourned his people still labored under? Was it that you could lose your ear gland things and still live or was there something else/more?

Mordy, Sunday, 10 February 2019 17:21 (nine months ago) link

i didn't get that either.

adam the (abanana), Sunday, 10 February 2019 17:41 (nine months ago) link

Makes a but more sense if you watch the short from a couple months back

Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 10 February 2019 18:33 (nine months ago) link

So did I understand it correctly?

Mordy, Sunday, 10 February 2019 18:54 (nine months ago) link

I think the death scenes are so drawn out because the writers were trying extra hard to establish Burnham and Saru as becoming such close friends as to be family, when before this episode any time their relationship was a focus it was more adversarial.

I liked the scenes where Meet snarks on Stamets, but otherwise I didn't care for the episode. The vastly more intelligent alien sentience trying to communicate with humans who interpret it as belligerent has been done to death imo so I was really impatient for Disco to figure it out.

Nice to see Number One though, especially without giving her a proper name yet.

Stateleee, Plump Buck Mulleeegan (Leee), Sunday, 10 February 2019 19:00 (nine months ago) link

Either something different is happening with Saru’s biology because he’s not with his people or they’ve been told a big lie about their lifespan. The implication was that at a certain age they are either harvested or have to do this ritual that kills them.

It really looks like maybe it’s actually a second puberty-like thing and after they lose their fear tendrils they enter another life stage. Which is an interesting concept — having an earlier adulthood with an excess of caution followed by another where you’re not guided by fear.

mh, Sunday, 10 February 2019 19:06 (nine months ago) link

In the Saru short it was shown that the Kelpians' "gods" come to harvest them regularly, with the obvious implication being that they technologically advanced aliens taking advantage of less developed species... So apparently that's the lie Saru figured out in this ep. But I find that weird, because he should've figured out what the "gods" really are as soon as the Starfleet took him in and he saw their technology.

Tuomas, Sunday, 10 February 2019 19:16 (nine months ago) link

I guess it's possible he still thought those aliens were doing them a favour by harvesting them before their glands kill them, but I still don't find it credible he wouldn't have looked closer into this whole thing during all his time in Starfleet.

Tuomas, Sunday, 10 February 2019 19:18 (nine months ago) link

respect for tradition plus the prime directive, I’d guess, but it looks like there’s more to come

mh, Sunday, 10 February 2019 19:46 (nine months ago) link

Im going to guess the ganglia were some kind of fear implant controlling kelpians for the benefit of the ba'ul (or however its spelt). And maybe not naturally a part of them at all.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Sunday, 10 February 2019 20:40 (nine months ago) link

tig notaro going "yo, anybody got gum?" and tilly immediately hooking her up with gum is a portentous clue that things are not what they seem.

Philip Nunez, Monday, 11 February 2019 04:13 (nine months ago) link

I didnt think of that.

I did like that she appeared to use the gum as a jerry-rig fixit device though!

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Monday, 11 February 2019 04:28 (nine months ago) link

That's particularly suspicious when she specifically mentioned duct tape earlier. Why brag about duct tape but then use gum?

Philip Nunez, Monday, 11 February 2019 04:33 (nine months ago) link

Whats yr thinking, theyre in another reality again or sometin?

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Monday, 11 February 2019 04:37 (nine months ago) link

http://imgs.fyi/img/78zb.png

Philip Nunez, Monday, 11 February 2019 04:57 (nine months ago) link

Leee, all I know about this show is the subway poster.

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 11 February 2019 05:09 (nine months ago) link

lol Philip

mh, Monday, 11 February 2019 15:26 (nine months ago) link

Just seen the Saru short. God the prime directive is literally the worst! Yeah you can go ahead and slaughter these intelligent beings because y'know they haven't invented spaceships yet.

large bananas pregnant (ledge), Tuesday, 12 February 2019 13:42 (nine months ago) link

i watched it too. that bit doesn't make sense to me either. why would they allow another advanced species farm a second sentient species for food just bc the second species isn't as advanced? that's fucked up and makes the PD look like an attempt to allow civilizations to progress organically and more like some isolationist make the federation great again bullshit.

Mordy, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 16:20 (nine months ago) link

makes the PD look *less*

Mordy, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 16:20 (nine months ago) link

feel like it's a good time to withhold judgment when they're definitely going to continue down this line of inquiry

we're also assuming the people doing the harvesting aren't also kelpians

mh, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 16:22 (nine months ago) link

the prime directive was always bullshit. a rule designed to show how often it should be broken -- like asimovs'.

adam the (abanana), Tuesday, 12 February 2019 17:27 (nine months ago) link

Yeah, don't think Brightest Star actually explained what happened to the Kelpians that were taken, did it? xp

groovypanda, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 20:53 (nine months ago) link

we've got some expectations based on the alternate universe people eating kelpians, but who knows?

mh, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 21:01 (nine months ago) link

Remember that scene where Evil Georgiou (before she came over) was eating Kelpian brain? I wonder now if that somehow links in.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 12 February 2019 22:19 (nine months ago) link

Dammit I literally did not see mh saying exactly what I just said. Durgh.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 12 February 2019 22:20 (nine months ago) link

we're also assuming the people doing the harvesting aren't also kelpians

this wouldn't make it any better imo since it would suggest that spacefaring races are allowed to keep subcastes in ignorant squalor

Mordy, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 22:48 (nine months ago) link

fwiw it doesn't really bother me vis-a-vis the consistency of the universe the federation has been shown to have questionable ethics and some kind of "not our business" PD could make plenty of intuitive sense even tho i feel like maybe this is generally a darker federation than in other series? but i'm not really an expert.

Mordy, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 22:49 (nine months ago) link

they keep referring to it as 'general order one', which i guess may not precisely be the PD?

mookieproof, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 22:51 (nine months ago) link

I think that's what TOS calls it (TNG calls it the PD).

Stateleee, Plump Buck Mulleeegan (Leee), Tuesday, 12 February 2019 22:53 (nine months ago) link

Yup

General Order 1: "No starship may interfere with the normal development of any alien life or society." (TAS: "The Magicks of Megas-Tu") General Order 1 was also better known as the Prime Directive. (TNG: "The Drumhead") It superseded all other laws and directives, with the exception of the Omega Directive. (VOY: "The Omega Directive")

groovypanda, Wednesday, 13 February 2019 08:04 (nine months ago) link

enough with the corny-ass burnham voiceovers

mookieproof, Saturday, 16 February 2019 00:27 (nine months ago) link

Enjoyed this week's. Seemed to have some grit in my eyes at times too. Lol at all the fanboys whinging at the science fantasy aspect of it, as if Trek has always been some paragon of hard sci-fi.

But yeah, the voiceover at the end was a bit much. Had to check it wasn't the mid-season finale as it had that kind of vibe about it.

groovypanda, Saturday, 16 February 2019 13:08 (nine months ago) link

did the show hire voyager's science advisor? because it felt like a writer wrote down "(TECH) will save him!" and an advisor replaced it with "DNA".

feels like they are trying to explain things from TOS that didn't need to be explained. like how season 1 was trying to explain why TOS Klingons looked human... never mind that they were only spies in their first TOS appearance and that it was clearly a budget issue. now we have an extradimensional network that could explain how spock put his mind in mccoy. i'm guessing the whole spock plot in discovery is trying to explain Jerk Spock from The Menagerie part 1 -- he was a jerk because roddenberry was a bad writer.

adam the (abanana), Saturday, 16 February 2019 15:52 (nine months ago) link

Getting through the second half of season 1 was pretty tough, enjoying the first couple of S2 much more. If they kill Tilly at any point, I'm done with the series.

The awful expository dialogue (explanation of WWIII to a room full of people who definitely had history classes at Starfleet Academy) is the worst part.

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Sunday, 17 February 2019 09:19 (nine months ago) link

I’m still amused by the fact one of my work team members convinced us to name our software development team “Section 31” way back in 2012 or thereabouts, before the trek writers decided to throw that premise into... everything

if only we were still around, we could have had team merch

mh, Sunday, 17 February 2019 16:31 (nine months ago) link

Technobabble saves the day? Well, that's a Trek tradition too, unfortunately.

A Grape Ape Agape (Leee), Sunday, 17 February 2019 16:36 (nine months ago) link

so was the section 31 ship cloaked before tyler called it for help? seems like technology that might have been useful in that recent war they almost lost to the klingons

mookieproof, Sunday, 17 February 2019 21:36 (nine months ago) link

yeah I thought it was jarring that the tech in this series seems above and beyond anything centuries later used in VOY/DS9.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Monday, 18 February 2019 21:42 (nine months ago) link

I’m still amused by the fact one of my work team members convinced us to name our software development team “Section 31” way back in 2012 or thereabouts, before the trek writers decided to throw that premise into... everything
Section 31 was introduced in the '90s in Deep Space Nine, and it was also used in Enterprise, so it's not really a recent thing.

Tuomas, Monday, 18 February 2019 22:17 (nine months ago) link

so was the section 31 ship cloaked before tyler called it for help? seems like technology that might have been useful in that recent war they almost lost to the klingons
It was camouflaged as an asteroid, I guess that's different? Presumably the "asteroid" was detectable with sensors, unlike cloaked ships?

Tuomas, Monday, 18 February 2019 22:20 (nine months ago) link

Yikes, those voiceovers. "There is no word for the unique agony of uncertainty" -- unless it's, er, "uncertainty".

I really, really like the crew (much more the Voyager or ENT) but the scripting is so bad sometimes. I noticed this episode was written by one of the now-fired showrunners. So that could be a good sign for the second half.

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 18 February 2019 23:10 (nine months ago) link

Berg & Harberts are credited with the story of the Saru cold episode. Which had flaws but wasn't terrible. I read that they were fired for abusive behavior in the office.

adam the (abanana), Tuesday, 19 February 2019 23:39 (nine months ago) link

I feel bad about how much I like Pike

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 19 February 2019 23:44 (nine months ago) link

I think he was consciously Shatnering this week too

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 19 February 2019 23:45 (nine months ago) link

I still want more of that saurian with the sinus problems

mh, Wednesday, 20 February 2019 00:12 (nine months ago) link

Technobabble saves the day? Well, that's a Trek tradition too, unfortunately.

the problem with this show is there's not enough technobabble! it all moves too quickly and nothing is explained.

1) there is a subspace fungus permeating the entire multiverse.
2) ????
3) we can travel anywhere instantaneously!

large bananas pregnant (ledge), Wednesday, 20 February 2019 09:34 (nine months ago) link

I was commenting last episode how there is less technobabble and I like it!

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 20 February 2019 23:18 (nine months ago) link

feel like i know nothing about the bridge crew, which seems odd at this point in the series. like, the helmsman got her eye made weird in the first battle with the klingons and the navigator grew up among luddites and that's about it. the communications dude just looks worried a lot, and i don't know what's up with the buck rogers twiki person

mookieproof, Thursday, 21 February 2019 03:37 (nine months ago) link

have we seen the android guy lately?

mh, Thursday, 21 February 2019 03:41 (nine months ago) link

Was there an android guy? I only remember the android (cyborg?) lady?

Gaseous Clay (Leee), Thursday, 21 February 2019 22:00 (nine months ago) link

I just took it as read that theyre minor characters, like in TNG there were bridge crew you barely heard speak but they were always there.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Thursday, 21 February 2019 22:33 (nine months ago) link

xp wait, I rewatched one of the reboot movies last week and they were the ones with the android guy with a glowing hole in his head. my bad.

mh, Thursday, 21 February 2019 22:56 (nine months ago) link

did everyone know about this except me?

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0003/0041/7038/products/btmr_700x700.png

mookieproof, Friday, 22 February 2019 02:21 (eight months ago) link

I did not, and: lol

mh, Friday, 22 February 2019 15:18 (eight months ago) link

one of the signs that trek has too much baggage: the red angel person (people?) seems like a probable time anomaly and my first thought is, "isn't there an agency to keep tabs on that kind of thing, and is this guy one of them"

do we want to put money down at this point on whether the time traveling/teleporting/advanced tech being is someone we've seen before in other trek? seems like the Q angle is maybe ruled out if it's using some sort of mecha suit

mh, Friday, 22 February 2019 15:26 (eight months ago) link

Saru: You don't think I can uphold my duty as a Starfleet officer if I go down to my home planet??

*goes down to homeplanet*

Saru (within 60 seconds of meeting his sister): I COME FROM OUTERSPACE.

Anyway, midway through, I thought they were going to reveal that the Ba'ul were really the evolved Kelpiens, and that Saru's dad would be the one we'd see for the first time. Instead, they're a bunch of Armuses. So, good on the writers at least for surprising me, even if it's the more obvious route. Not to say that I liked this last episode much, though.

Gaseous Clay (Leee), Saturday, 23 February 2019 23:18 (eight months ago) link

the directors may change, but they each give us one camera-swirling-around-everyone scene each episode lol

mookieproof, Saturday, 23 February 2019 23:29 (eight months ago) link

“Don’t break GO1”
...
“Sure! Fire off something with untested and unknown planet-wide consequences on your hunch, seems fine”

stet, Sunday, 24 February 2019 10:45 (eight months ago) link

Has there actually been an episode of Star Trek where GO1/PD is mentioned and then subsequently not broken?

groovypanda, Sunday, 24 February 2019 18:37 (eight months ago) link

That's a good question! There's some episodes where it's an excuse for characters to be undercover, but I think even those episodes break it. I think TOS's "Bread and Circuses" used it as an excuse not to just beam the crew up out of peril.

adam the (abanana), Monday, 25 February 2019 00:21 (eight months ago) link

prime directive very passive aggressively being followed to the letter in this episode:
https://img.youtube.com/vi/2neNjZReByk/hqdefault.jpg

Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 26 February 2019 04:48 (eight months ago) link

one of the signs that trek has too much baggage: the red angel person (people?) seems like a probable time anomaly and my first thought is, "isn't there an agency to keep tabs on that kind of thing, and is this guy one of them"

do we want to put money down at this point on whether the time traveling/teleporting/advanced tech being is someone we've seen before in other trek?
My first thought, when the Red Angel was revealed to be a mysterious time traveller from the future with unknown motivations, was that it's "Future Guy" from Enterprise. Since the Enterprise writers kinda messed up the whole Temporal Cold War arc, we never actually found out who Future Guy was or why he was messing with the past, so maybe they're finally gonna reveal that? Though of course I know it's unlikely they would reference Enterprise in any way, since it (and the TCW plot especially) wasn't well-liked.

According to Brannon Braga, their original plan was to reveal that Future Guy was actually future Archer, who needed to fix the past for some reason. So it would be kinda funny (not really), if they brought back Scott Bakula to play the Red Angel.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 26 February 2019 06:41 (eight months ago) link

But yeah, on a more serious thought, I wouldn't be surprised if they brought back the Federation temporal agents we saw in Enterprise and TNG. The Mirror Universe and Section 31 already play a big role in the story, so it doesn't seem they're afraid to bring back major elements from previous series.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 26 February 2019 06:46 (eight months ago) link

Has there actually been an episode of Star Trek where GO1/PD is mentioned and then subsequently not broken?
There's the famously awful episode of Enterprise where Archer and Phlox refuse to give a species a cure for a hereditary disease that's killing them, because they are dominating another sapient species, whose time has now come, so Starfleet shouldn't interfere with the planet's "natural evolution", or some other pseudo-scientific bullshit like that.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 26 February 2019 07:14 (eight months ago) link

Anyway, midway through, I thought they were going to reveal that the Ba'ul were really the evolved Kelpiens, and that Saru's dad would be the one we'd see for the first time.

My wife had the same exact guess while watching, and it certainly looked like they were heading towards that kind of plot twist. Given that they didn't, I find it a bit odd that the Ba'ul only communicated via audio, and the one individual who appeared onscreen was covered in black goo so we couldn't properly see its features... So maybe it's still some kind of a spoiler what the Ba'ul look like, and it's gonna be revealed later?

Tuomas, Tuesday, 26 February 2019 07:37 (eight months ago) link

I would hazard a guess that there's a 0.01% chance we'll see a direct reference to a plot point in the Enterprise tv series. It's the trek property they're least likely to return to.

my incredibly horrible idea that has an even lower chance of being true is the guy in the Red Angel suit is... Picard

the new Picard series would then be a story about how he became a time traveler

it gives me a perverse joy to come up with the worst plot ideas possible, tbh

mh, Tuesday, 26 February 2019 16:47 (eight months ago) link

actually it's . . . nog

mookieproof, Tuesday, 26 February 2019 17:00 (eight months ago) link

I'd be 100% in for that

mh, Tuesday, 26 February 2019 17:21 (eight months ago) link

I would hazard a guess that there's a 0.01% chance we'll see a direct reference to a plot point in the Enterprise tv series. It's the trek property they're least likely to return to.
IIRC there were some minor references to Enterprise in the latest ST movie, and Mirror Universe Georgiou here is implied to be a descendant of Mirror Universe Yoshi from that series. But I agree it's quite unlikely they would return to any major plot points of Enterprise, like what the hell the Temporal Cold War was really about.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 26 February 2019 20:09 (eight months ago) link

is enterprise at all worthwhile? i don't particularly like scott bakula, but at least there's no neelix

mookieproof, Tuesday, 26 February 2019 22:52 (eight months ago) link

in short: no

mh, Tuesday, 26 February 2019 22:55 (eight months ago) link

The first two seasons of Enterprise are mostly bad, with an occasional highlight. The third season has a long story arc that's quite ambitious and entertaining to watch, even if it doesn't always deliver. The fourth season is more episodic, and is mostly good, except for the very last episode, which was an infamous misstep and you would do better just to skip it (the penultimate episode provides a pretty good conclusion for the series, so you really can just stop there).

Bakula takes his time to find his groove, and he's notably awkward while trying to deliver lofty Picardian speeches, but he does also get better as the series progresses. All in all it's worth watching, if you're willing to accept that it only becomes truly enjoyable during the second half.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 06:26 (eight months ago) link

I don't know if it's just my TV but the sound mix on Discovery sucks. I have to turn it up to understand dialogue and then any music/special effects are blaring.

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 06:26 (eight months ago) link

That's common on a lot of modern TV shows. If you're able to listen on headphones it's much clearer.

groovypanda, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 06:35 (eight months ago) link

What if the red angel is Wesley Crusher? (srs question!)

Q was the other thought we had, but eh.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 10:29 (eight months ago) link

spock is my thought, since the first visions of the red angel were in his head. and he time traveled with "red matter" in the reboot movie.

adam the (abanana), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 11:02 (eight months ago) link

Trayce, congrats on coming up with an even worse option!

mh, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 14:47 (eight months ago) link

ghost of all red shirts roaming time and space to prevent meaningless disposable deaths.

or michael burnham in a borg suit.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 18:15 (eight months ago) link

What if the red angel is Wesley Crusher? (srs question!)
He wouldn't need a special time travel suite since he could just use his own innate powers.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 18:39 (eight months ago) link

That's common on a lot of modern TV shows. If you're able to listen on headphones it's much clearer.
I think a lot of TV shows these days, especially on Netflix and HBO, are mixed for 5.1 surround system first and foremost. We have that, and I've no issues hearing the dialogue since it's coming from a dedicated middle speaker, but I could imagine it doesn't sound very good with two speakers.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 18:45 (eight months ago) link

I always thought of dialogue being hard to understand because of the contemporary fashion for "authentic" speech, which makes the clearer enunciation of TNG, DS9, etc. sound stagier.

Gaseous Clay (Leee), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 19:10 (eight months ago) link

the angel being wesley sort of makes sense, suit aside. you can imagine the trek rights holders being worn down after 25 years of him begging to be in something

mookieproof, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 19:52 (eight months ago) link

I thought it was just me struggling with dialogue in so many recent shows! I am quite deaf but dear god, the dynamic range in some shows is ridiculous. I'm forever yelling STOP MUMBLING at the tv.

What was with the inky monster thing on that note. Was he an alien or a NIN video?

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 20:30 (eight months ago) link

He was supposedly the Ba'ul, but it's impossible not to also think of the oil slick that killed Tasha Yar.

Gaseous Clay (Leee), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 20:38 (eight months ago) link

counterpoint: it was possible

mookieproof, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 21:45 (eight months ago) link

Oh Sorry I knew it was Ba'ul, I guess I meant what was with his ridiculous industrial band angsty goo form (he was even moving like people Ive seen at goth nights on the dancefloor tbrh)

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 22:23 (eight months ago) link

the ba'ul are an aquatic skeksis or somesuch

mh, Thursday, 28 February 2019 15:11 (eight months ago) link

Disco set to change showrunners again: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/02/star-trek-discovery-gets-renewed-for-season-three-adds-a-new-showrunner/

Gaseous Clay (Leee), Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:42 (eight months ago) link

That was a good episode! The pacing was excellent, and when Georgiou purposely missed phasering Burnham, the WUHT look she gave was IRL LOL.

Gaseous Clay (Leee), Saturday, 2 March 2019 20:52 (eight months ago) link

Yeah, I liked this one. I don't know why they even bothered with the time anomaly b-plot though.

adam the (abanana), Saturday, 2 March 2019 21:44 (eight months ago) link

The time anomaly subplot was actually pretty significant, no? First of all, the cyborg bridge officer (what's her name?) got infected, which will obviously play out in later episodes. And what happened with the probe suggests that either the Red Angel is not as benevolent as most people thought, or that there's another time-travelling faction working against the RA. Maybe they really are bringing back the Temporal Cold War?

Tuomas, Sunday, 3 March 2019 09:11 (eight months ago) link

The plots of this season are better than in the last one, but jeez, these people still suck at writing dialogue! The dialogue between Michael, Amanda, and Sarek felt so unnatural, even for a sci-fi show. They're supposed to be a family but they talked to each other like they were total strangers.

Tuomas, Sunday, 3 March 2019 09:16 (eight months ago) link

Stop trying to make Enterprise references happen!

mh, Sunday, 3 March 2019 14:10 (eight months ago) link

"My mother taught me the greatest mysteries come in threes."

sorry kid your mother was an idiot.

large bananas pregnant (ledge), Sunday, 3 March 2019 21:45 (eight months ago) link

Just caught up with this. The last two episodes were great. I loved the NIN sludge monster - a rare selfconsciously creepy design that was actually effectively creepy. I thought they were gonna full Cthulhu with it at one point.

Separating burnham from the crew seems like a good opportunity to finally let her do something.

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 5 March 2019 23:30 (eight months ago) link

enjoyed the cheesiness of having the TOS tie-in

tomorrow, Friday, 8 March 2019 23:36 (eight months ago) link

the 'revelation' of how burnham was mean to child spock was pretty weak, but i am enjoying adult spock being dickish to her

mookieproof, Saturday, 9 March 2019 01:11 (eight months ago) link

They're really hinting heavily that the Red Angel is Burnham from the future, aren't they? In fact the hints were obvious enough that it made me think that they're a red herring, and it's actually someone else than Burnham... But whoever it is the RA seems to have a personal connection to her and Spock, so the only other candidate seems to be Amanda.

I'm also wondering who the Red Angel's opposing force is... All we know is that they're from the 28th century and they're adept at assimilating technology. My guess is it's an evolved version of the Borg collective. The red dots seen in the cyborg officer's eyes when they're controlling her remind me of the red laser lights of the Borg, and it being them would also explain the plan to exterminate biological life.

Tuomas, Sunday, 10 March 2019 21:04 (eight months ago) link

apparently an AI runs Section 31

so, most likely the AI goes nuts in the future and is responsible for the matrix squid thing

mh, Sunday, 10 March 2019 21:38 (eight months ago) link

If they are going with Burnham being the red angel as they seem to be, they should go full bootstrap paradox and have Airiam be behind the evil future robots who mind-control Airiam.

adam the (abanana), Sunday, 10 March 2019 22:28 (eight months ago) link

What did I miss that suggested Burnham = red angel?

Mordy, Sunday, 10 March 2019 22:49 (eight months ago) link

it’s human, linked to Spock, is an ongoing character in the series that seems to be mostly Burnham-centered

mh, Sunday, 10 March 2019 22:54 (eight months ago) link

Based on no evidence at all it’s going to be alt-timeline Zach Quinto Spock

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Sunday, 10 March 2019 22:59 (eight months ago) link

i was going to say: the show's myopic focus on Burnham, and that the red angel first appeared to Spock when Burnham ran away. also its wide hips.

adam the (abanana), Sunday, 10 March 2019 22:59 (eight months ago) link

I get a strong "making it up as we go along" vibe from this show, so I doubt even the scriptwriters knew who the Angel was at this point.

That seems to be working, though? The last few episodes have been the most fun of the season - maybe hoofing it with revolving showrunners was the best thing that could've happened.

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 11 March 2019 00:13 (eight months ago) link

it’s human, linked to Spock, is an ongoing character in the series that seems to be mostly Burnham-centered
Also, the latest episode revealed it's a woman, and because of the conventions of mysteries like this, most likely it won't be some random person underneath the mask, it has to be someone we know... And since the RA is clearly showing personal interest on Burnham and Spock, the number of candidates is pretty low, with Amanda being the only other option. Though of course they could still throw in a curveball, and, say, reveal it's Burnham's biological mother, who didn't actually die.

The strongest hints towards Burnham being the Red Angel were in this episode when Spock was mindmelding with the RA, and the shot of its helmet was cut with a similar shot of Burnham's face. That felt like such an obvious hint that it made me think it's a red herring.

Tuomas, Monday, 11 March 2019 06:46 (eight months ago) link

I get a strong "making it up as we go along" vibe from this show, so I doubt even the scriptwriters knew who the Angel was at this point.

I dunno, I do think they do have a grand plan for this season. For example, the Red Angel transporting all those humans from the Third World War to Terralysium seemed like an anomalous event, because everything else the RA had done has happened in the 23rd century, and has involved Burnham, Spock, and/or the Enterprise crew. So it seemed like her doing stuff in the 21st century was just an excuse to tell a done-in-one story about science and religion. But now that we've learned the RA is trying to stop the bad guys from destroying all the planets in the galaxy with sentient life, the Terralysium thing makes more sense. If the RA and her opponents are from the future, they would know the history of Earth and the Federation. And according to official history, the people she moved to Terralysium died in WWIII. Also, even in the 24th century the Federation has no colonies in the Beta Quadrant, where Terralysium is. So the bad guys wouldn't know about this planet with a human civilisation, and wouldn't know to exterminate it. I guess this the RA's backup plan, that even if she fails to defeat the bad guys, humanity would still survive in one form.

Tuomas, Monday, 11 March 2019 07:42 (eight months ago) link

And the reason the RA brought Discovery to Terralysium was because she was worried about them being stuck in religious stagnation, and she wanted them to embrace science, so their civilisation would move forward.

Maybe Terralysium is even a part of her plan to defeat the bad guys? We know they come from the 28th century, and by then Terralysium could have advanced enough to be able to stand against them.

Tuomas, Monday, 11 March 2019 07:48 (eight months ago) link

Also, the latest episode revealed it's a woman

something else i missed

Mordy, Monday, 11 March 2019 15:14 (eight months ago) link

Spock consistently calls the RA "she", though I guess that could just be her assumption.

Tuomas, Monday, 11 March 2019 15:36 (eight months ago) link

His assumption, I mean.

Tuomas, Monday, 11 March 2019 15:36 (eight months ago) link

I wasn't under the impression that Vulcans make assumptions

mh, Monday, 11 March 2019 15:51 (eight months ago) link

And since the RA is clearly showing personal interest on Burnham and Spock, the number of candidates is pretty low, with Amanda being the only other option. Though of course they could still throw in a curveball

Calling it now, the Red Angel is Deanna Troi.

Gaseous Clay (Leee), Monday, 11 March 2019 17:16 (eight months ago) link

discovery finale: it's all a simulation that deanna and will are fucking around with/in

adam the (abanana), Monday, 11 March 2019 18:37 (eight months ago) link

I think I found the worst idea - maybe it’s the good Lorca?

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 11 March 2019 19:17 (eight months ago) link

I don't hate it

mh, Monday, 11 March 2019 19:19 (eight months ago) link

Supernova is Booster Gold

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 11 March 2019 19:20 (eight months ago) link

i'd be thrilled if jason isaacs came back he was so good

Mordy, Monday, 11 March 2019 19:45 (eight months ago) link

Yeah, although I like Pike just as much.

Theory might then be: The Red Angel is Good Lorca, and Good Lorca is the Captain in season 3.

I like that this show is interesting enough to sustain its dopey, simple central mystery without going Full Reddit True Detective about everything.

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 11 March 2019 19:51 (eight months ago) link

eventually burham is going to become captain right? if she doesn't would this be the first star trek where the protagonist is not the captain?

Mordy, Monday, 11 March 2019 19:58 (eight months ago) link

Depends, Mordy! Sisko started off as a Commander for the first 2.5 seasons of DS9, although he was always in charge.

Gaseous Clay (Leee), Monday, 11 March 2019 20:00 (eight months ago) link

That was just some weird restriction imposed by the producers, IIRC for some reason Sisko couldn't be a captain for as long as there was another show with another captain on air. So when TNG ended they made Sisko a captain, but even before that his role in the ensemble was essentially the same as Kirk's and Picard's, they just couldn't call him captain. So Disco is the first ST show where the main character isn't the leader.

Tuomas, Monday, 11 March 2019 20:24 (eight months ago) link

And I think this concept of "new captain every season" is a good one, cos it allows them to tell different kind of stories... Obviously the big plot twist of season season 1 wouldn't have worked if Lorca was the main character. And Pike this season is too straight and decent to be an interesting protagonist, but he works very well as a supporting character.

It seems next season the captain will be whoever they were supposed to pick up on Vulcan at beginning of this season, before Pike took over. If it's gonna be a Vulcan captain, that will create yet another new dynamic to explore. So I think having captains as supporting characters is a good idea, and I wouldn't want any of the main characters to take the position.

Tuomas, Monday, 11 March 2019 20:34 (eight months ago) link

The strongest hints towards Burnham being the Red Angel were in this episode when Spock was mindmelding with the RA, and the shot of its helmet was cut with a similar shot of Burnham's face. That felt like such an obvious hint that it made me think it's a red herring.

Yeah but remember in the first season this show basically led viewers by the hand through the Voq twist before the big reveal so I wouldn't rule it out just yet.

groovypanda, Monday, 11 March 2019 20:46 (eight months ago) link

am i misremembering or did they say that the brain extraction tech section 31 wanted to use on spock was "terran technology"? if so, does that mean that georgiou gave it to them bc otherwise how could they have gotten it?

Mordy, Monday, 11 March 2019 20:52 (eight months ago) link

I wouldn't have guessed about Voq if I hadn't read it here - it just didn't occur to me that ST would do "puzzle show" elements

But I also didn't ken the hints about Burnham (or the red angel's gender) so maybe I'm just not very observant

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 11 March 2019 21:02 (eight months ago) link

Did no-one else notice that "the probe used multiple SQL injections"? 20th century database technology still in use on the most advanced ship in the federation!

how exactly did spock get cured?

what if bod was one of us (ledge), Tuesday, 12 March 2019 20:45 (eight months ago) link

the talosians did something to him telepathically i guess? or maybe burnham's presence inspired him to wake up and bitch at her

using linear time as the bedrock of one's sanity did not seem terribly logical tho

mookieproof, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 20:54 (eight months ago) link

The Talosians magicked him to health (in semi-creepy exchange for Burnham revealing to them what she did to Spock).

Did no-one else notice that "the probe used multiple SQL injections"?

I caught this! I was a little bummed that 300 years from now people are still writing code that's vulnerable to this.

BUT THEN IF I PLAY THIS OUT... Burnie is one insubordinate if not serially mutinous officer, and she's probably not going to face repercussions this time; in fact, the entire DISCO crew are also really eager to ignore direct orders (lol at Detmer cutting off Pike in mid-"I'm about to disobey orders but I'm not asking anyone else blah blah blah" speech like "Yo just give me the course and heading, boss"). Granted, their orders were pretty stupid, being given by a stupid 31 captain -- but Starfleet themselves seems to have given 31 wide operational discretion in pursuing Red Herring Angel signals, so it's a bad sign of Starfleet's own leadership that they'd delegate to dum dums and/or always give bad orders that are begging for insubordination.

Gaseous Clay (Leee), Tuesday, 12 March 2019 21:31 (eight months ago) link

So if all that's the case, I can easily imagine Starfleet outsourcing their IT infrastructure to a bunch of Ferengi consulting services who are in turn probably using some slave labor as their "talent" pool.

Gaseous Clay (Leee), Tuesday, 12 March 2019 21:33 (eight months ago) link

we should probably have the mods change the thread title to something about Discovery, right?

sounds like the angle about a federation/s31 AI that helps run things taking control (or rather, being Control) was right

mh, Friday, 15 March 2019 14:35 (eight months ago) link

Can’t wait for the next “person with a secret other person/thing inside them” plot! The first three were so great.

stet, Friday, 15 March 2019 23:08 (eight months ago) link

this was my favorite episode of the season so far. i loved how spock fucking around at chess was just spock fucking around and he didn't have a secret n-dimensional strategy.

i expected the randomness strategy to come back up when michael was fighting an AI but oh well.

adam the (abanana), Friday, 15 March 2019 23:38 (eight months ago) link

golden opportunity missed for burnham to trick airiam/ai into a logical paradox, thereby making it explode

mookieproof, Saturday, 16 March 2019 01:05 (eight months ago) link

we should probably have the mods change the thread title to something about Discovery, right?

I've been thinking the same thing.

The ending shot in the latest episode is quite beautiful, but everything leading up to it did not build up to it. A bunch of stuff thrown together that never coheres into an actual plot. Trek has never been hard SF but it should at least make some kind of internal sense!

OTOH, this episode was hitting hard at the dysfunction in Sarek's family, and how his decisions have driven a lot of the action in the show's universe. It's almost like the house of Atreus, where ripples of recrimination and vengeance eventually turn into huge tidal waves that culminated in a decade-long and generation destroying war.

LEOPLOD BLOOMPS (Leee), Sunday, 17 March 2019 05:35 (eight months ago) link

What was Burnham hoping to achieve that Airiam's best friend and Airiam herself could not? Quit disobeying orders and open the airlock! Also smdh at the other character who suspected and spied on Airiam for the entire episode but failed to tell anyone or discover anything.

what if bod was one of us (ledge), Sunday, 17 March 2019 08:27 (eight months ago) link

Why did she disable her suit? Surely she would be unable to do much harm floating about in her suit while they figured out how to stop Control.

stet, Sunday, 17 March 2019 20:59 (eight months ago) link

What was Burnham hoping to achieve

just proving spock's point that she thinks she can solve everything herself

mookieproof, Sunday, 17 March 2019 21:10 (eight months ago) link

they could start doing that regularly, as the show starts to concentrate on other characters and she keeps trying to pop in as the main character

by the end of next season she’s trying to unclog a toilet and they’re like, hey Burnham, we have a plumbing robot

mh, Sunday, 17 March 2019 21:23 (eight months ago) link

I thought it was a bit disappointing that Discovery would use the good ol' "evil AI wants to destroy organic life" trope, since it's such a cliche, and ST in general has been more nuanced when it comes to doing stories about artificial intelligence. Though the revelation came so early in the season that I think they could actually be faking it? Maybe the real antagonist is someone else, and Control is trying to stop it? It's not like Control itself even appeared here to confirm it's behind it all, they only have are Airiam's words and the dead Section 31 officers, all of which could've been frame-up.

Tuomas, Monday, 18 March 2019 08:04 (eight months ago) link

I've got a bad feeling about this named but yet unseen logic extremist that's somehow made their way up the ranks

mh, Monday, 18 March 2019 13:40 (eight months ago) link

seems unlikely that Control trying to destroy organic life was the threat that the red angel was coming to combat bc that would be extremely anticlimactic at this point - i think they were just speculating that maybe this is the threat they've been on the alert for but i really didn't get the impression from the storytelling or structure that this is in fact the existential risk (or if it is, that it has been defeated).

Mordy, Monday, 18 March 2019 13:43 (eight months ago) link

It's kind of refreshing to have a show that has one relatively complex plot thread (the Red Angel) going on that manages to resolve other plot threads in a relatively quick manner? The Airiam infiltration lasted a couple episodes before playing out, and it was just one of a series of issues that a lot of contemporary series would leave stewing for most of a season before clumsily tying a bundle of threads together at the end and halfway addressing all of them.

Not that all of the resolutions have been great, but it's an interesting subversion of the self-contained nature of traditional Star Trek. We get the introduction of an issue in an episode as a subplot, then within the next couple the issue is foregrounded and resolved. I like how it's kept things rolling.

mh, Monday, 18 March 2019 13:51 (eight months ago) link

the red angel is a time traveling Reg #TrekTweets pic.twitter.com/U49NECFKqg

— ocean madness (@theKatriarch) March 18, 2019

mookieproof, Monday, 18 March 2019 14:48 (eight months ago) link

i'm on board with that

mh, Monday, 18 March 2019 15:32 (eight months ago) link

I've got a bad feeling about this named but yet unseen logic extremist that's somehow made their way up the ranks
I thought that was the Vulcan admiral they found dead in this episode?

Tuomas, Monday, 18 March 2019 23:06 (eight months ago) link

oh crap, I think you’re right!

mh, Monday, 18 March 2019 23:25 (eight months ago) link

Happy to forgive the clumsy bits in this ep because it was just so gosh-darned exciting. This was the writing debut of the next showrunner - great start.

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 22:45 (eight months ago) link

Did anyone else catch Tilly's Futurama reference (calling Airiam "robit")?

LEOPLOD BLOOMPS (Leee), Wednesday, 20 March 2019 19:10 (eight months ago) link

trayce must not have watched it yet

mookieproof, Wednesday, 20 March 2019 19:21 (eight months ago) link

pretty sneaky, sis

mookieproof, Saturday, 23 March 2019 05:06 (seven months ago) link

lots of characters became idiots in this episode. the trap is based on a how burnham needs to survive in order to become the red angel, but they're trying to trap the red angel to learn how to prevent the future that she is from.... does no one see the problem with this?

adam the (abanana), Saturday, 23 March 2019 06:01 (seven months ago) link

otm

mh, Saturday, 23 March 2019 17:45 (seven months ago) link

i mean isn’t the angel interceding to stop a bad future at particular moments and their plan is to pull her off her quest and maybe stop her ability to keep jumping through time by wrecking her tether?

mh, Saturday, 23 March 2019 17:48 (seven months ago) link

Also, they think the Red Angel is future version of Burnhan, yet somehow they think they can surprise with a trap involving the present Burnham. Er, wouldn't the RA then know about the trap, since she was there in her past? They're lucky the Angel turns out to be someone else, because otherwise their idiotic plan most likely wouldn't have worked.

Tuomas, Sunday, 24 March 2019 18:35 (seven months ago) link

I mean, the plot direction that fixes this is that the RA they’ve been scanning *is* Burnham and she takes over the role in the next episode or so. So we just saw how she gets the suit.

mh, Sunday, 24 March 2019 19:36 (seven months ago) link

YES I DID CATCH TILLY SAYING ROBIT :P

(I only saw this last night)

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Sunday, 24 March 2019 22:09 (seven months ago) link

Great ep but my only problem is the real dramatic turn was around robit - sorry, Airiam - being shot out the airlock. There was a palpable undercurrent of "be shocked and grieve now pls" but her character had had ZERO fleshing out til this very episode, so it lost any power it could have had otherwise.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Sunday, 24 March 2019 22:12 (seven months ago) link

...pun not intended re "fleshing out" lol sorry.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Sunday, 24 March 2019 22:12 (seven months ago) link

Saru’s funeral vocal spot was nice

mh, Sunday, 24 March 2019 23:11 (seven months ago) link

Oooer seems like I'm still one episode behind. *backs out of thread with hands over eyes*

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Sunday, 24 March 2019 23:36 (seven months ago) link

So apparently, they changed the actor Airiam's actor between season 1 and 2, and the women who replaced on the bridge is played by the actor who was Airiam during season 1. Sounds kinda weird that they would switch actors, if the original one was still available to play another role?

Tuomas, Monday, 25 March 2019 06:58 (seven months ago) link

Section 31 guy getting it through the eye was a pretty good moment, I actually went 'woah!' Or maybe 'whoa!'

what if bod was one of us (ledge), Monday, 25 March 2019 14:11 (seven months ago) link

Sounds like they liked the original actor and, knowing that her part was being written out or had a lot of time in the makeup chair, decided to keep her around by moving her to another role.

Or vice versa, they liked the actor who died as Airiam and thought she'd be a better match with the plot arc we saw.

ledge otm

mh, Monday, 25 March 2019 14:16 (seven months ago) link

Burnham cries way too much in this show.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Saturday, 30 March 2019 02:06 (seven months ago) link

Was the eye needle machine explained? How did Leland get tied up?

No one on the show understands grandfather paradoxes again this episode. How did Mike's mom see her die hundreds of times? That line seemed like it was from a different story, or was only included because it sounded cool.

adam the (abanana), Saturday, 30 March 2019 03:39 (seven months ago) link

That episode was a mess

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Saturday, 30 March 2019 11:07 (seven months ago) link

I'm also wondering who the Red Angel's opposing force is... All we know is that they're from the 28th century and they're adept at assimilating technology. My guess is it's an evolved version of the Borg collective. The red dots seen in the cyborg officer's eyes when they're controlling her remind me of the red laser lights of the Borg, and it being them would also explain the plan to exterminate biological life.

― Tuomas, Sunday, March 10, 2019 11:04 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

So, when I came up with this theory it seemed kinda far-fetched, but the latest episode seems to kinda hint to that direction. First of all, Control uses nanotech to make Leland into some kind of cyborg and takes over his will, which feels a lot like Borg assimilation. Secondly, when Control is about to assimilate him, it says "struggle is useless"... Which sounds like a variation of "resistance is futile".

Of course, there's the slight problem that by the 23rd century Borg have been around for a long time already, whereas Control is supposedly gaining consciousness only then. But with all the time travel going on it still might make sense; like, for example, what if in the end Control travels back in time and ends up becoming the first version of the Borg collective consciousness.

Tuomas, Saturday, 30 March 2019 20:58 (seven months ago) link

No one on the show understands grandfather paradoxes again this episode. How did Mike's mom see her die hundreds of times? That line seemed like it was from a different story, or was only included because it sounded cool.

― adam the (abanana), Saturday, March 30, 2019 5:39 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That was explained in the episode. Dr. Burnham has made over 800 trips into the past, trying to stop Control from gaining sentience and eradicating life, but she's never managed to accomplish that. So presumably she's tried to do something in the past that she thinks would stop the genocide from happening, then travelled to the future and still seen it happen, with Michael and everyone else dying. She says that what when she saved the people who ended up on Terralysium, that planet is still thriving 950 year later, so that proved to her that the timeline is mutable, but she hasn't managed to change it in a way that would save her daughter.

Tuomas, Saturday, 30 March 2019 21:05 (seven months ago) link

Stoked to see how many more person inside another person episodes they can fit into this series. Did they pitch this as Face/Off ... In Space! or something?

stet, Saturday, 30 March 2019 21:41 (seven months ago) link

lol at how they didn't even bother with continuity -- sometimes ash/georgiou are in important meetings on discovery, sometimes they're on the planet, sometimes they're on the ~dimly lit section 31 ship that has no name or crew worth mentioning despite everyone wearing black~

btw did we establish how georgiou survived this episode, let alone ~really cares~ for our michael

mookieproof, Sunday, 31 March 2019 01:38 (seven months ago) link

sometimes ash/georgiou are in important meetings on discovery, sometimes they're on the planet, sometimes they're on the ~dimly lit section 31 ship
Er, you realise that this is a sci-fi show with technology that allows instant movement from ship to ship or ship to planet? And their movements were explained in the narrative: Leland sends Ash to steal the data from Discovery, in the end he doesn't want to do it, so he returns to the Section 31 ship to voice his protest to Leland, and remains there until he gets stabbed. And after Ash's refusal Leland sends Georgiou on the planet to try to grab the data in a different way. It's not that complicated.

btw did we establish how georgiou survived this episode, let alone ~really cares~ for our michael
Control gave Leland some nanotech enhancements, but that doesn't mean has superpowers, it mostly seems to mean he can take a lot of damage, as the nanomachines fix injuries. So he beats up Georgiou, but that doesn't mean she's about to die.

As for caring for Michael, the previous season already established that Mirror Georgiou kinda took her as a replacement for the deceased Mirror Michael, whom she considered to be like a daughter. And during this season it's been hinted many times that deep down she does care for her, even though she keeps denying it, which she did again in this ep.

Tuomas, Sunday, 31 March 2019 11:17 (seven months ago) link

lol yes i realize it is a sci-fi show with technology, which is why i try not to complain about dark matter or spores solving everything or intermittent transporter interference or an AI just taking over a human body and making it impervious to phasers i guess. but the storytelling in this one was just all over the place and i like internal coherence.

i questioned how georgiou survived not leland, but the torpedoing of the place -- it was not immediately evident that she was transported to discovery at the end, but upon review she was presumably no. 4 in the 'four to beam up'.

and yes there have been hints and actions suggesting that she cares about michael, but given her background as terran empress and the depiction of the terran empire, it seems out of character to me (as was starfleet instantly giving her a top role in section 31, of course). anyway, she's an interesting character with possibilities beyond basically anyone else on the show; it would be disappointing to see her merely become michael's (other) special bodyguard

mookieproof, Sunday, 31 March 2019 21:52 (seven months ago) link

Yeah, I got strong Borg vibes from Leland's assimilation-in-all-but-name. I still hope that DISCO doesn't go down that route, because I'm already tired of the "everything is connected" and "the fate of the universe is at stake." It's a slavish kind of storytelling that feels so unambitious, and when you combine it with how carelessly they plot the arcs, makes me question their narrative abilities.

BTW, did they say why Dr. Burnham couldn't just get back into the suit when they were deactivating the force fields to let the time wormhole take her BACK... TO THE FUTURE?

LEOPLOD BLOOMPS (Leee), Sunday, 31 March 2019 22:17 (seven months ago) link

I dunno, I like the idea this might be where the borg origin story is! It was noted in Voyager/NG that the reason the borg came to be is a bit unclear, IIRC?

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Sunday, 31 March 2019 23:13 (seven months ago) link

(and yes yes, Guinan said theyd been around thousands of years but I dunno maybe the time travel explains that as someone else noted)

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Sunday, 31 March 2019 23:17 (seven months ago) link

apparently the “control is a malignant AI” is from ST books (!) starring Julian Bashir

lol

mh, Sunday, 31 March 2019 23:18 (seven months ago) link

btw how did mom save burnham when she showed up? did she locally turn back the clock to before she died or something?

mookieproof, Monday, 1 April 2019 02:23 (seven months ago) link

To me that was the biggest discrepancy brought up by this episode... Since we now know the timesuit is not some super advanced piece of technology from the future, rather than something made by Federation scientists 20 years ago, how is it able to do all the miraculous things it has done, like save Burnham from death? Or instantly transfer all those people across the galaxy, from WWIII to Terralysium? Or deactivate the entire Ba'ul offensive system? All of that seems far beyond the capabilities of Federation tech.

Tuomas, Monday, 1 April 2019 05:36 (seven months ago) link

I wondered about that too -- but then again this is also the franchise where a Voyager probe became sentient and took on the form of a woman.

adam the (abanana), Monday, 1 April 2019 06:17 (seven months ago) link

Since we now know the timesuit is not some super advanced piece of technology from the future, rather than something made by Federation scientists 20 years ago, how is it able to do all the miraculous things it has done

this

Was the eye needle machine explained?

and this

and this: if the red angel wasn't michael burnham, how did it's neurological signature ***!!!EXACTLY!!!*** match hers?

honestly i don't know how any of the action on this show is visible through all the furious handwaving that goes on.

what if bod was one of us (ledge), Monday, 1 April 2019 10:55 (seven months ago) link

It is still possible that Michael becomes the red angel. Her mom/Kima Greggs didn't know about the signals, and there's still a suit lying around.

Mommy issues seem to be a common idea in second seasons around now -- Kimmy Schmidt and Jessica Jones also did them. I thought the last two episodes were significantly worse than the season before them.

adam the (abanana), Monday, 1 April 2019 14:52 (seven months ago) link

scene where the s31 dude got stabbed in the eyeballs was good

mh, Monday, 1 April 2019 14:55 (seven months ago) link

It is still possible that Michael becomes the red angel. Her mom/Kima Greggs didn't know about the signals, and there's still a suit lying around.

tru dat. i stand by the furious handwaving comment though.

what if bod was one of us (ledge), Monday, 1 April 2019 14:56 (seven months ago) link

actually no, i just watched it again and the suit gets pulled back... to the future! before her mum does too.

what if bod was one of us (ledge), Monday, 1 April 2019 15:14 (seven months ago) link

You're right. I thought Section 31 had another suit, but I was misremembering the episode before last.

adam the (abanana), Monday, 1 April 2019 20:38 (seven months ago) link

they'll probably find a spare in a cupboard somewhere.

what if bod was one of us (ledge), Monday, 1 April 2019 20:53 (seven months ago) link

Was the eye needle machine explained?

If Control = Borg is real, then the eye needle thing could be referencing the beginning of First Contact, where Picard's nightmare within a nightmare includes some closeup eye surgery.

LEOPLOD BLOOMPS (Leee), Monday, 1 April 2019 21:26 (seven months ago) link

intrigued by the 23rd-century technology that allows leland to keep his beard so consistently rugged

mookieproof, Monday, 1 April 2019 21:34 (seven months ago) link

Yeah borg use needles/piercing all the time to insert nanoprobes, I'm wondering why I never saw the possible connection to start with.

Ageed I think suit may come back with someone else in it (ie Michael). Otherwise doc's afterthough "oh well with mothers and daughters its REALLY almost a match so you know" was a bit weaksauce!

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Monday, 1 April 2019 23:53 (seven months ago) link

Ugh, yeah, that was nonsensical, especially since a few episodes ago they said that it was a 100% match.

LEOPLOD BLOOMPS (Leee), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 00:01 (seven months ago) link

I think they said it was “a match”

idk this still seems halfassed and woo

mh, Tuesday, 2 April 2019 00:32 (seven months ago) link

I dunno, i’m enjoying this season and it seems mostly full-assed to me. I didn’t notice any specific plot holes or weird bits this week.

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 2 April 2019 21:09 (seven months ago) link

I binged this season up to episode 7 over the weekend and I hit burn out - roughly similar to how I hit burnout somewhere in the middle of Matt Smith-era Doctor Who. I've been liking them, but the drama and curse of the puzzle box plot gives everything an overall sameness. I'm not too emotionally invested, but maybe I can just skip ahead - then I never do and just check this thread to see if anything happens.

Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 3 April 2019 05:03 (seven months ago) link

I thought what made the least sense what Pippa going along with Leland's plan when he was clearly a different person and advocating a course of action (hijacking the data) that was extremely suspicious. I was hoping she'd be a little savvier but she actually went along with it up until Michael's mom happened to say something that sounded a lot like what Leland had said and that tipped her off. Otherwise most of these discrepancies didn't bother me v much.

Mordy, Thursday, 4 April 2019 14:21 (seven months ago) link

this last one was a nothing episode. pretty clear that they're remaking terminator 2 now. I am guessing lizard-faced Linus and JETT RENO were last minute additions to the show as they have yet to add anything to the story.

adam the (abanana), Friday, 5 April 2019 22:49 (seven months ago) link

Unless I missed something, one thing that didn't make sense this episode is that they need the time crystal in order to change the future but if Pike takes it he's unable to change his future.

groovypanda, Saturday, 6 April 2019 05:32 (seven months ago) link

I assume that the time crystal fantasy elements in this episode will be ignored in future episodes.

adam the (abanana), Saturday, 6 April 2019 07:08 (seven months ago) link

I actually enjoyed this episode! It's relatively light on plot but I think that's a good thing, because, first, it gives more space to for the episode to work on character development (the Spock/Burny back and forth in the shuttle bay was cute, Reno trying to fix Stamets/Culber), and second, the characters make a lot fewer stupid plot-driven decisions that have been annoying me.

I also really liked Pike's pep talk to himself, the most/best Trek thing the show has done in a while IMO.

I've been starving them, teasing them, singing off Leee (Leee), Sunday, 7 April 2019 00:26 (seven months ago) link

yeah

doug jones really sells that swinging-his-arms-behind-his-back thing

mookieproof, Sunday, 7 April 2019 00:52 (seven months ago) link

I agree that the character bits in this episode was nice, but the whole Time Crystal thing with the mystical test of a character etc. was just too much Doctor Who style science fantasy. It may work in Who, but Trek is still supposed to be sci-fi with some grounding in the reality, so magical minerals with an apparent mind of their own felt way out of place.

Also, for this supposedly super-advanced AI, Control was far too eager to give Burnham and Spock a proper Bond villain monologue, explaining its internations and giving them time to defeat it. If it only intended to kill and assimilate Burnham, why didn't it do so back when they were on the Discovery shuttle, were both of them were within striking distance and unarmed?

Tuomas, Sunday, 7 April 2019 17:44 (seven months ago) link

also how would it have crossed the room in 0.8 seconds and broken all the metacarpal bones in burnham's hand when it had no such special powers in leland's body?

also does ethan peck sculpt his beard to look more vulcan or does it just grow like that?

what if bod was one of us (ledge), Sunday, 7 April 2019 20:14 (seven months ago) link

Thought that was a decent setup episode. Burnham is just a lot more interesting when she has Spock to play off. Trek has always been full of mystical magic nonsense, imo.

Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 7 April 2019 21:27 (seven months ago) link

Trek has always been full of mystical magic nonsense, imo.]

Dilithium.

I've been starving them, teasing them, singing off Leee (Leee), Monday, 8 April 2019 00:21 (seven months ago) link

love to destroy all sentient life in the universe

mookieproof, Tuesday, 9 April 2019 17:14 (seven months ago) link

Failing at basic Dr Who level time travel here. The signals can still be the red angel, who could have made them in your future, her past, Pike.

stet, Wednesday, 10 April 2019 23:54 (seven months ago) link

Pike's assumption is based on Dr. Burnham saying she wasn't responsible for the signals, and the timesuit seemingly being lost, which would mean she can't do them in her future, his past either. Of course we know that someone, either Dr. Burnham or Michael or someone else, will probably locate the suit against all odds and create the signals. But you can blame a character making assumptions based on real-life probabilities instead of the logic of fiction.

Tuomas, Thursday, 11 April 2019 07:34 (seven months ago) link

I am so very here for the Enterprise bridge

stet, Saturday, 13 April 2019 00:28 (seven months ago) link

I feel like they have successfully sold trends in interaction! It doesn’t seem retro, it’s like a transition from maximalism into semi-austerity with a red-tinged mid-century modern vibe. So the enterprise seems contemporary but of a trend, something to emulate philosophically

mh, Saturday, 13 April 2019 03:56 (seven months ago) link

so is the sphere data -- and by extension, discovery -- sentient now? i mean if it can prevent self-destruct and raise shields and everything . . .

mookieproof, Saturday, 13 April 2019 21:37 (seven months ago) link

I hope the season ends well, as this show is legit fun and good right now, playing into the "it's like TNG, it just needed to warm up" narrative.

Perhaps they'll reassert the status quo, but would be interesting to see the show move into the post-DS9 era.

Chuck_Tatum, Saturday, 13 April 2019 23:39 (seven months ago) link

My current theory - Control really is a borg origin story. And somehow, they will prevent it from obtaining the sphere , but in retaliation Control decides going aorund assimilating all places/knowledge by brute force is the next best way to achieve perfection, if they cant get it from the sphere.

That last epsisode had WAY too much red-herring goodbyes and crying and Sombre Gazes and then no ones leaving anyway arrrrgh get on with it.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Sunday, 14 April 2019 11:28 (seven months ago) link

I didn’t mind all the sombre goodbyes this time, as opposed to the Saru dying-not-dying episode, which went on forever. Writing seemed better too this time, maybe?

Theory seems pretty legit

Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 14 April 2019 11:36 (seven months ago) link

the borg origin story angle seems a little too on the nose, but maybe!

there’s a serious causality glitch if Burnham fails to make it through, now that we know with a high level of certainty that it was her in the suit creating the beacons that the discovery has been investigating

mh, Sunday, 14 April 2019 13:53 (seven months ago) link

control seems pretty conscious already tbh

what if bod was one of us (ledge), Tuesday, 16 April 2019 15:17 (seven months ago) link

I didn't expect the show to move towards the "Calpyso" storyline, at least not so quickly.

Audrey Tautoulogy (Leee), Tuesday, 16 April 2019 20:23 (seven months ago) link

I am just catching up with episodes now. I got so excited at the start of the Talosian one because I thought it was going to be some cool mashup thing, but it was not good at all. I think every new Star Trek iteration tries to recreate the magic of the Wrath of Khan by revisiting old enemies and scenarios, and that's just not an easy thing to do.

But the Control episode after it was superb. Funny that Tuomas mentions Doctor Who upthread. I thought it had a real Who vibe about it, but without the messianic histrionics.

I am also warming to Spockolas. Jokes help.

trishyb, Wednesday, 17 April 2019 10:22 (seven months ago) link

i hope tig doesn't get killed off

mookieproof, Thursday, 18 April 2019 23:45 (seven months ago) link

People Turing up on discovery like they popped round from next door whilst it’s taking 57 more minute for the baddies to turn up is getting really old.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Friday, 19 April 2019 07:29 (seven months ago) link

That last episode was pretty good! Little confusing in places (if control got subdued by Philipa with the magnet whyd they even need to do what they did?) but yeah lots of action and tension.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Friday, 19 April 2019 12:04 (seven months ago) link

Yeah, that was some v good Trek there! Plot holes aplenty around death of Control but that aside, yes. I wonder how it is going down with the Trekkers.

stet, Saturday, 20 April 2019 00:40 (seven months ago) link

have we had fighters/drones like that before in trek?

endless plot holes but it sure looked nice. spock should have kept the beard

mookieproof, Saturday, 20 April 2019 02:32 (seven months ago) link

he will... consider it
https://s.put.re/hiDQWpdj.jpg

Philip Nunez, Saturday, 20 April 2019 04:15 (seven months ago) link

Loved the moire screen detail

#startrekdiscovery Some details go back to my childhood. I always loved Spock's science station on the Enterprise bridge. Thank to Alex Kurtzman and Olatunde Osunsanmi for letting me animate Spock's moiré. Such an iconic screen! pic.twitter.com/W1tXwRoYpZ

— Timothy Peel (@timothypeel1) April 20, 2019

stet, Saturday, 20 April 2019 09:29 (seven months ago) link

things we didn't learn:

  • how burnham created the Signals
  • how burnham crashed the oksana baiul technology
  • how the suit/time crystal, which was supposed to only have enough power for one jump into the future, was able to make all the Signal-making jumps
  • why the suit/time crystal compelled burnham to perform the Signal-making jumps at that moment, when they could have been done at/from any time
  • why the enterprise has no robots able to close a blast door from the inside, requiring an admiral to do it instead
  • why control, which was evidently running the entire section 31 fleet by itself, chose to put all of itself into leland
  • fuckin magnets, why do they work
  • why ash, who is supposed to be dead, is able to hang out in public with klingons
  • why starfleet would subsequently ban spore-drive technology
  • why we even bothered with that whole hugh-is-pissy arc
  • why vulcans are unable to use contractions

mookieproof, Saturday, 20 April 2019 21:22 (seven months ago) link

also, why did the signals appear briefly at the start of the season? why did burnham bother with saru's backwards shithole planet instead of getting someone like the vulcans to help out?

yes, i could deal with a few of these, but all together they come across as sloppy writing.

adam the (abanana), Saturday, 20 April 2019 23:44 (seven months ago) link

"have we had fighters/drones like that before in trek?"

star trek beyond had lots of little ships. I did find the action sequences genuinely thrilling, which I hadn't felt before with Discovery. (If the budget overrun on the season premiere was spent on the X-Wing asteroid field sequence, they wasted their money.)

adam the (abanana), Saturday, 20 April 2019 23:48 (seven months ago) link

Also it’s seems like poor starfleet management practice not to nominate a captain from the legions of commanders on discovery before they disappeared into the future.

I did like Number 1s very 60s hairstyle and overall looks. The 23rd century is about to enter a very retro phase.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Sunday, 21 April 2019 00:00 (seven months ago) link

• why vulcans are unable to use contractions

contractions are illogical

j., Sunday, 21 April 2019 00:41 (seven months ago) link

somehow

j., Sunday, 21 April 2019 00:41 (seven months ago) link

Spock used contractions! He might be Vulcan, but he's no Soong-type android.

I really liked this for its pure spectacle! There's a million things that don't make sense this season (yes, the current writing regime continues the proud Trek tradition of not being able to do cool, well-considered sci-fi concepts*), but they hit enough beats that made up for it: Burnham's flight in the suit; the SFX for all of her jumps; Lrell and Ash with the requisite "TODAY IS A GOOD DAY TO DIE" (I seriously got choked up when they said it).

* Like they literally didn't need Burnham to send an additional signal! She appeared to Spock as a child, which should've been proof enough that she made it through the wormhole.

Audrey Tautoulogy (Leee), Sunday, 21 April 2019 04:34 (seven months ago) link

have we had fighters/drones like that before in trek?

I'm pretty sure we saw some in some of the big space battles in DS9.

Audrey Tautoulogy (Leee), Sunday, 21 April 2019 04:36 (seven months ago) link

xp i think that was mrs burnham who appeared to spock as a child

mookieproof, Sunday, 21 April 2019 06:42 (seven months ago) link

ugh this was garbage

so confusing, maybe i misheard but at one point they say they can't get through to the rest of starfleet, then 5 minutes later "we have 200 ships to [leland's] 30". huh?

why didn't they just use the spore drive to jump to the delta quadrant and launch michael from there?

so much awful technobabble but the enterprise bridge officer asks the discovery one to "speak english" because she doesn't know what an arc second is :(

what if bod was one of us (ledge), Saturday, 27 April 2019 20:36 (six months ago) link

pretty sure they could have tied a string to that blast door handle. also, blast door was pretty strong, maybe they should build the whole ship out of them.

what if bod was one of us (ledge), Saturday, 27 April 2019 20:57 (six months ago) link

spock: did u ever knooo that ur my heeeerooooo

what if bod was one of us (ledge), Saturday, 27 April 2019 20:58 (six months ago) link

"section 31 requires more transparency"

that went well, no-one's heard of it in ds9.

what if bod was one of us (ledge), Saturday, 27 April 2019 21:08 (six months ago) link

i thouht the signal she was going to send to spock was the one from his childhood... so when did that one get sent?

what if bod was one of us (ledge), Saturday, 27 April 2019 21:14 (six months ago) link

we have 200 ships to [leland's] 30

i think this was a reference to all their lil fighters and drones (and then leland launched his own)

mookieproof, Saturday, 27 April 2019 22:06 (six months ago) link

That blast door scene made me cross. No way he could have stood directly on the other side of the glass and not been impacted somehow. WTF.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Sunday, 28 April 2019 00:04 (six months ago) link

spock's childhood meeting was with mike's mom. how the vision included the signals when mom didn't know anything about signals is a plot hole.

adam the (abanana), Sunday, 28 April 2019 08:49 (six months ago) link

There are dozens of star treks, not just 6 or 7, and if trek is a feeling then everyone has a different one. But i keep thinking of The Measure of a Man; it might not even be my favourite episode but in the writing, the problem posed and the solution offered, it was something of a peak. Nothing in Discovery was remotely of that calibre - in season 2 certainly. Season 1 had some things going for it, e.g. Tilly pushed the boundaries of what a starfleet officer could be, while staying true to or even exemplifying trek values; by season 2 she was mostly reduced to comic relief.

what if bod was one of us (ledge), Sunday, 28 April 2019 11:15 (six months ago) link

I missed some of the wtf-ness that Jason Isaacs provided last season, but I really enjoyed this one. Shame the last episode was a Marvel movie climax laser fight though.

Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 28 April 2019 16:22 (six months ago) link

Hells yeah that massive pew pew scene hurt my head, I couldnt tell who was shooting what at some points.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Sunday, 28 April 2019 23:22 (six months ago) link

two months pass...

logic extremists

lol

j., Monday, 15 July 2019 06:41 (four months ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.