Examples of record companies pressuring creative choices?

There probably have been Lots of bands who were told to sound more like Coldplay but I'd like to hear the bands actually say that

of the most extreme cases

i guess one of the most notable ones

http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2005/10/im_a_genius_too.html

http://blogfiles.wfmu.org/KF/0509/Help_Me_Rhonda_Sessions_edit.mp3

loosen up guys

come on

just loosen up a little

that session is incredible but *pedant alert* Murry did not represent the record label

"How about examples where the record company was right? There may be at least five times that's happened, right?"

Prince.

Yes, there's still plenty of people joining pop factories and happily knowing what they're getting into. I'm more interested in bands being told to do something they'd be understandably miffed about, like being told to be more like another popular band or sing a certain way or start using instruments they don't like.

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, July 7, 2016 3:02 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

How about being told not to play on the record at all, which was standard practice at least pre, idk, 1965 or so?

Yes, there's still plenty of people joining pop factories and happily knowing what they're getting into.

You mean signing with record labels?

thats true murry wasnt even the official manager

i guess in answer to this thread this is why bands decide to sign to a small label or create their own

You mean signing with record labels?

― socka flocka-jones (man alive), Thursday, 7 July 2016 21:28

I meant something more along the lines of singers who don't direct the writing, the dances, appearances and stuff like that. And session musicians who only want to be session musicians.

pick a singer at random, any singer - there's your example

My guess is that it happens even in the storied "complete creative control" situations -- I always suspected that was partly a marketing gimmick.

pick a singer at random, any singer - there's your example

― Οὖτις, Thursday, 7 July 2016 21:45

But I'm not interested in those singers who just wanted to sing while everyone creates everything else, that's the deal they probably wanted. I want to see someone say "I was forced to sing like Chris Martin and play a saxophone". Or an underground metal band being told to be more gory and racist.

LITERALLY PICK ANY ARTIST ON A RECORD LABEL

excellent example here, I hadn't heard of any of the issues with The Doors' 3rd album before I found the link/webpage:

http://albumsthatneverwere.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-doors-celebration-of-lizard.html

― sleeve, Thursday, July 7, 2016 1:47 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Tbf to Rothchild the studio vers of "Celebration of the Lizard" is pretty weak, not nearly as good as the vers from "Absolutely Live", which probably benefited from the fact the Doors had played the song live a few times at that point.

Of course, I suppose on the other hand if Rothchild had loved it maybe they would have spent more time perfecting it? The second half of "Waiting For the Sun" is kind of lame.

wrt "underground" the label will rarely force them to change their style/image/music bc small labels sign you if they like yer music

changing something in your music/style has an economic underpinning and small labels usu are not worried about that as they run a p lean business to begin with

if youre looking to get big from being on a small label you shop for bigger distributor and/or bigger label from what i understand

The general phenomenon of label meddling over artist resistance might be ubiquitous, but there could still be interesting, noteworthy, or particularly egregious examples. This could thread could be a place to post and discuss such examples.

How about being told not to play on the record at all, which was standard practice at least pre, idk, 1965 or so?

This is still common practice, particularly with drummers. I've heard of numerous cases where the drummer will record individual hits which are sampled and then cut 'n' pasted onto a grid for the album.

LITERALLY PICK ANY ARTIST ON A RECORD LABEL

― Οὖτις, Thursday, 7 July 2016 22:01

I want the accounts/stories, not a list of every music artist on a record label. Aside from the common things I mentioned at the top, I haven't seen many people in music talking about being told to go in directions they didn't want.

Captain Beefheart "Strictly Personal" - "Originally intended to be a double album called It Comes to You in a Plain Brown Wrapper for the Buddah label, it was released later in pieces in 1971 and 1995. After rejection from Buddah, Bob Krasnow encouraged the band to re–record four of the shorter numbers, add two more, and make shorter versions of Mirror Man and Kandy Korn. The music was already weakly recorded with a trebly thin sound[citation needed]. Krasnow created a strange mix full of "phasing" that, by most accounts, (including Beefheart's) diminished the music's strength. This was released in October 1968 as Strictly Personal on Krasnow's Blue Thumb label."

De La Soul "Pass the Plugs": "Singin' on records, making it hectic / Wishing it all would fall and die / Radio works it, public consumes it / Tommy boy wants another say no, huh / Rough and rugged, it's not a new twist / Been trugoy since the first get go / Here's the daisy / Watching it die, see"

XTC "Skylarking" - forced to work with Rundgren, Mermaid Smiled swapped out for Dear God, etc.

so many, the list is endless

every Phil Spector production ever

Around the same time, Gaye's label Motown tried to get the artist to record in the current sound of the times, disco music. Gaye criticized the music, claiming it lacked substance and vowed against recording in the genre. His label mate Diana Ross had recorded her first disco song, "Love Hangover". The song's producer Hal Davis debated over giving that song to either Ross or Gaye. After working over the song, he went with Ross, and it became her fourth solo number one hit. Motown struggled to get Gaye in the studio as Gaye focused on work on an album (which would later be released as Here, My Dear, dedicated to Gaye's troubled first marriage). After months of holding off from recording anything resembling disco, the singer set upon writing a song parodying a disco setting.

Del the Funkee Homosapien's "I Wish My Brother George Was Here"

Malcolm McLaren dressing up the NY Dolls in red leather + Soviet flag backdrop

Kelly Clarkson hated "Since U Been Gone," Clive Davis forced her to work with Dr. Luke and put it on her first album

all of Willie Nelson's early records in Nashville

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDRjsKcFC9g

Albert Ayler, "New Grass"

"They told me to do this. Bob Thiele. You think I would do that now? He said, 'Look Albert, you got to get with the young generation now.'"

Sleep's record label hated Dopesmoker (then Jerusalem), refused to put it out as a single song and forced them to chop it into tracks, then dropped them

all of Willie Nelson's early records in Nashville

Charlie Rich in Nashville. Billy Sherrill wouldn't even let him play piano on his own records, said the studio musicians couldn't follow him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut_the_Crap

Mellencamp confessed in a 2005 interview: "That (name) was put on me by some manager. I went to New York and everybody said, 'You sound like a hillbilly.' And I said, 'Well, I am.' So that's where he came up with that name. I was totally unaware of it until it showed up on the album jacket. When I objected to it, he said, 'Well, either you're going to go for it, or we’re not going to put the record out.' So that was what I had to do... but I thought the name was pretty silly."

In 1980, Mellencamp returned with the Steve Cropper-produced Nothin' Matters and What If It Did, which yielded two Top 40 singles – "This Time" (No. 27) and "Ain't Even Done With the Night" (No. 17). "The singles were stupid little pop songs," he told Record Magazine in 1983. "I take no credit for that record. It wasn't like the title was made up – it wasn't supposed to be punky or cocky like some people thought. Toward the end, I didn't even go to the studio. Me and the guys in the band thought we were finished, anyway. It was the most expensive record I ever made. It cost $280,000, do you believe that? The worst thing was that I could have gone on making records like that for hundreds of years. Hell, as long as you sell a few records and the record company isn't putting a lot of money into promotion, you're making money for 'em and that's all they care about. PolyGram loved Nothin' Matters. They thought I was going to turn into the next Neil Diamond."

XTC "Skylarking" - forced to work with Rundgren, Mermaid Smiled swapped out for Dear God, etc.

― Οὖτις, Thursday, 7 July 2016 22:27

In a BBC radio documentary about Rundgren, one of the XTC guys said they picked Rundgren from a list. I remember Rundgren asking Partridge to leave the studio after a certain point.

yeah but they hated him and hated the album

XTC also has lots of complaints about the videos Virgin made them do

Andrew Loog Oldham locking Mick and Keith in a room and telling them to write their own material, demoting Ian Stewart, etc.

A lot of bands were told to start writing their own material in the 60s.

Lou Reed "Sally Can't Dance": While the record was a hit and elevated Reed's status as a star, he reportedly was disappointed in its production (in which he took a largely passive role) and the treatment of the songs. Reed remarked, "It seems like the less I'm involved with a record, the bigger a hit it becomes. If I weren't on the record at all next time around, it might go to Number One."

A lot of bands were told to start writing their own material in the 60s.

yes well RAG wants specific examples dontchaknow, doesn't seem to care that the vast majority of bands are an example

Classic Lou quote.

A lot of bands were told to start writing their own material in the 60s.

― They could have been Stackridge. (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 July 2016 23:02

Why did this start happening?

I'm grateful for all examples. But I'm still hoping for nuggets about people being told to sound like Stereophonics or look like Insane Clown Posse.

The Move: The promotional campaign for "Flowers in the Rain" led to litigation that had serious repercussions for Wood and the group. Without consulting the band, Secunda produced a cartoon postcard showing the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, Harold Wilson, in bed with his secretary, Marcia Williams. Wilson sued The Move for libel and the group lost the court case; they had to pay all costs, and all royalties earned by the song, which otherwise would have belonged to Wood as composer, were awarded to charities of Wilson's choice. The ruling, much to Wood's chagrin, remained in force even after Wilson's death in 1995.

this was another pretty good recent one

http://pitchfork.com/news/34834-klaxons-change-second-album-after-label-pressure/

Why did this start happening?

The Beatles.

... also more money from publishing.

Simon & Garfunkel's "Sounds of Silence" getting the folk-rock overdub treatment w/out their knowledge or participation

Nico, "Chelsea Girl"

"I still cannot listen to it, because everything I wanted for that record, they took it away. I asked for drums, they said no. I asked for more guitars, they said no. And I asked for simplicity, and they covered it in flutes! [...] They added strings and – I didn't like them, but I could live with them. But the flute! The first time I heard the album, I cried and it was all because of the flute."

Rick Rubin pressuring Run DMC into doing "Walk This Way" w/Aerosmith

Alex Chilton's entire career as a Box Top

first RZA and GZA singles

jon landau pressuring bruce springsteen to write a hit single for born in the usa after springsteen thought it was done. he told landau to go fuck himself (those may not have been his exact words), then crawled away (that may not have been his exact action) and wrote "dancing in the dark."

brian epstein forcing the beatles to wear nice, clean, matching suits

there's an ilm thread about whether the Beastie Boys would have had a career if their record company had agreed to release the album under the original title:

If the Beastie Boys' had released "Don't Be A Faggot"...

didn't A Tribe Called Quest's record label prevent them from putting a homophobic track on The Low End Theory, and it was replaced with "Show Business"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyKcZb5LufE

Del the Funkee Homosapien's "I Wish My Brother George Was Here"

― Οὖτις, Friday, July 8, 2016 7:32 AM (9 hours ago)

wasn't this Ice Cube's choice of direction, not the pressure of a record company that would have had no expectation of this teenager with no previous releases?

anyway, Ice Cube OTM, this album towers over everything else Del ever did

it doesnt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut_the_Crap

― Οὖτις, Friday, July 8, 2016 7:41 AM (13 hours ago)

this also has nothing to do with record company pressure of any kind, and is the result of a band's musically untalented manager doing a very bad job of turning some extremely weak demos into full recordings, under a pseudonym deliberately intended to imply the band's singer had done them, after the entire lineup had left the band.

it doesnt.

okay, Clint Eastwood was pretty good, when he again wrote to the shape of someone else's idea and then got mad afterwards that it turned out well

Hadn't heard this before:

After auditions (during which the identity of the band remained a secret), the Clash selected two guitarists, Nick Sheppard and Greg White, with the latter taking the name Vince White due to Simonon's refusal to play in a band with someone named "Greg".

sic it isn't clear to me that RAG understands what a "record company" is or what it does, so I wasn't being too strict about distinguishing between various kinds of external pressures being brought to bear on artists ie producer vs. management vs. actual label representative (roles which are sometimes interrelated/conflated, as was the case with Ice Cube)

Ice Cube didn't own Elektra iirc but it's been a while

(which is to concur with everyone that the thread would be more fun if you actually narrated the anecdotes behind the examples you're shouting at cumulo-gilmour)

yes well RAG wants specific examples dontchaknow, doesn't seem to care that the vast majority of bands are an example

This seems a very odd thing to be getting so angry about

Jesus, guys. Thanks a lot for completey ruining A Tribe Called Quest forever for me.

yeah georgie porgie is one of the worst things

http://genius.com/A-tribe-called-quest-georgie-porgie-lyrics

They should've at least mentioned it somewhere in the Michael Rapaport doc.