Frank Zappa: Classic or Dud?

What he did to "Ruben & the Jets" was criminal

But it was his music, I suppose he could do what he liked with it

I was happy when the Family Trust rectified the Reuben redux last year.

But it was his music, I suppose he could do what he liked with it

― Tom D (Tom D.)

the crimes of george lucas ('90s on)

I was happy when the Family Trust rectified the Reuben redux last year.

They did? I must have missed this!

They released it as Greasy Love Songs.

http://www.zappa.com/fz/discography/2010greasylovesongs.html

The version of WOIIFTM that I first heard was the one with the new bass and drums, so for a long time I thought that was the original version. When I finally heard the real original I was quite shocked at the difference. I still hear the altered one as being the "right" one even though I know that's not right.

I used to think there were things to like about the 1984 mix, but...naaah. I don't think I've ever heard the original vinyl. I'd like to check it out sometime if there's a digital rip floating around somewhere, and compare it to the 1993 remix/remaster.

one thing I like about the 1984 version is that it restored some pieces from the original recording that had been censored out by the record company

I wish there was a version of the original mixed with those excised bits added back in

original mix

Isn't that just that "don't come in me in me" is backwards on the original, forwards on the remix? I can't recall other instances.

There's also a verse in Mother People with the line "Shut your fucking mouth about the length of my hair" that's also backwards on the original.

Ah, yeah. Listening to Absolutely Free at the moment. Man, "Duke Of Prunes" marries such a beautiful melody to some of the most bizarre lyrics...

Its been about five years, maybe time again for me to dip my toes into Zappa. My last few attempts have been pretty unsuccessful, I seem to admire him more than I actually like his work.

So many eras, so many styles, so much sorting the chaff to find the wheat. I used to listen to him a lot more than I do now, but every once in a while I'll just browse youtube and find something cool.

Maybe thats a good way to go about it. I used to work with a dude that owned everything he ever did, wish I still did so I could just borrow a random stack.

FZ the composer rewards deep and repeated listening, FZ the lyricist and misanthrope doesn't (with a couple of rare exceptions). This album, FZ played on Baroque instruments by Ensemble Ambrosius, is really good:

http://open.spotify.com/album/40I3p7zHU7waQwZABZoiPr

i've come around to zappa a bit, but it seems like everytime i'm hearing some truly amazing superhuman music in comes some "funny" fake doo-wop or a dude with a mexican accent saying thing

Zappa in a nutshell

i've come around to zappa a bit, but it seems like everytime i'm hearing some truly amazing superhuman music in comes some "funny" fake doo-wop or a dude with a mexican accent saying thing

Yeah, I've got a soft spot for that kind of puerile genre-bending.

When it comes to FZ, sometimes the smarm can charm, but it will just as often harm.

Sometimes both in the same song.

Listening to this for the very first time, and grinning like an idiot. The side of Roxy and Elsewhere containing "Echidna" is one of my favorites, and this nails it beautifully. Thanks, WmC!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpalPoMZegw

Agreed with most of the above - Uncle Meat is such a frustrating album for exactly this reason. You can hear so much brilliance on there, but its also the point where he feels the need to ruin every beautiful thing he ever wrote with goofy vocals or terrible instrumentation or boring snippets of dialogue - I dig dudes that try to challenge their audience, but I feel like FZ just did it for its own sake. "Dog Breath" would be such an amazing composition if they just did it somewhat straight!!

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My pleasure! That Ambrosius album is just gorgeous, but some days I think Music by Frank Zappa by the Omnibus Wind Ensemble is even better. Too bad it's not on Spotify, but here is a short playlist of four of the pieces -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkgEFFBj6mc&feature=BFa&list=PL4F6D5A18F6CE6BAA

Inca Roads/Uncle Meat/No. 7/Black Page #2

Uncle Meat is a perfect album, imo, incl the lyrics and vocals.

Yep, I love Uncle Meat to death. Sprawling, yeah, but wonderful. I just watched this for the first time; I don't know anything about the Token Of His Extreme DVD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PewnFHIHzM

Uncle Meat is definitely one of my favorites too, don't really see how it's ruined

I think my favorite FZ, in terms of writing, performance & production is Inca Roads

I think my main problem with Zappa is that his jokes aren't funny

What about the snorks?

Lots of them were up until about 74.

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dunno what compelled Zappa to rip off the Smurfs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuCq0aZiPT0

"Ruben Sano was 19 when he quit the group to work on his car" = funny

Lots of them were up until about 74.

Bingo, though I did like some of the bizarre robo-sex scenes in Joe's Garage for their pure bizarreness

my drummer's impression of FZ in the studio for this track: "Come on, Roy - sing that way we all hate":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hjU2GCKx4g

Man, that clip cracks me up. Grinning from ear to ear.

Lots of them were up until about 74.

― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap),

OTM. I think the mid-70s turning point was the break with Herb Cohen and the beginning of Endless Grief with Warner Bros., which pushed him the rest of the way into total humanity-hatred. (The first push being his "obscenity" bust at Studio Z.) His lyrics never carried much fond regard from the beginning, but they really seemed to start being etched in acid from about '76-77. I wonder what kind of person he would have turned out as if not for those two events.

Getting knocked offstage/seriously injured in Montreaux couldn't've helped either

Did he ever voice an opinion re:"Smoke On The Water"?

Early Zappa: Freak Out!, Absolutely Free, We're Only In It For the Money and Lumpy Gravy are still my favorites. Love that OG Mothers band. First time I ever heard "Absolutely Free" I was 100% in love, tho I never found anything else by FZ that equaled it for me. I think "Brown Shoes Don't Make It" is his peak, and "Duke of Prunes" and the accompanying suite/psych freak-out/Stravinsky quotes is probably the best thing he's ever done. I worshiped this stuff in high school.

Late 60's/Early 70's Zappa: Feels like most of this is culled from live performances, live experiments, etc. You can probably just watch "200 Motels" and get the gist of what he was going for with this. Love that movie, and some of the songs are really wonderful, ironic 70's stoner rock jams. Flo & Eddie are great additions to the band!

70's Zappa: More live stuff, studio experiments. Lots of great stuff, most of it depending on how much you enjoy comedy fusion jazz. First time I ever heard "Sheik Yerbouti" I really hated it, but every time after that I totally loved it. Probably for this reason I haven't really delved into too much else from this era. The Terry Bozzio stuff on that album owns.

80's Zappa: Don't know anything past "You Are What You Is", which has some great 80's-relevant social commentary. Anti-right wing, anti-war, anti-Mud Club, anti-religious right, etc.

Alas, my heart lies with the 60's stuff.

Does anyone else love Apostrophe?

I LOVE Apostrophe.

My heart lies with the post- Flo and Eddie/ pre- disillusionment years. Say, 72-77.

I'm kind of cool to Apostrophe. It's ok, but way down my personal ranking of his albums. (I should actually do that ranking sometime.)

Getting knocked offstage/seriously injured in Montreaux couldn't've helped either

― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Thursday, June 14, 2012 3:05 PM

This was in London, a week after Montreux, but yeah -- destruction of all the band's gear and nearly being killed by a drunk within a few days had to be another horrible low point.

Jesus, I knew about the gear/casino fire thing, but hadn't heard about the accident. I'd be pretty pissed off at my "fans" after those two incidents too!

only album i love beyond 60s Mothers stuff is Apostrophe, this is almost entirely down to hearing it as a kid tho via neighbours parents

The version of WOIIFTM that I first heard was the one with the new bass and drums, so for a long time I thought that was the original version. When I finally heard the real original I was quite shocked at the difference. I still hear the altered one as being the "right" one even though I know that's not right.

I finally tracked down the 80's version of this album and it's blowing my mind; WOIIFTM is still one of my absolute favorite albums ever and it has been for like a decade, so hearing a completely new version of it is nearly surreal (seems like more than just the bass and drums was remixed). I'm not sure if I really like it, though I'll admit the production on the original was pretty terrible.

I poked around on YouTube a little last night and really fell for "Montana".

Awesome article on Zappa here, mostly about "Watermelon in Easter Hay":

http://www.furious.com/perfect/zappainstrumentals.html

I think it really reflects what I meant when I say he "ruins" his own work, but he puts it a lot less harshly. Still, very interesting (and long!)