― amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 10 December 2003 16:04 (twenty years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 10 December 2003 16:13 (twenty years ago) link
― Nick H (Nick H), Wednesday, 10 December 2003 16:18 (twenty years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 10 December 2003 16:19 (twenty years ago) link
― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 10 December 2003 16:32 (twenty years ago) link
anyway, he rocks because of the huge number of rave records that sample him
― charltonlido (gareth), Wednesday, 10 December 2003 16:34 (twenty years ago) link
― ModJ (ModJ), Wednesday, 10 December 2003 16:46 (twenty years ago) link
― paulhw (paulhw), Wednesday, 10 December 2003 21:18 (twenty years ago) link
the docerick sermon
― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 10 December 2003 21:44 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 10 December 2003 22:02 (twenty years ago) link
― Andrew L (Andrew L), Wednesday, 10 December 2003 23:30 (twenty years ago) link
― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 11 December 2003 00:23 (twenty years ago) link
― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 11 December 2003 04:23 (twenty years ago) link
― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 11 December 2003 04:26 (twenty years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 11 December 2003 13:25 (twenty years ago) link
I wouldn't say so, he's a great storyteller but his flow isn't particularly impressive, it always sounds kinda same.
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 December 2003 13:32 (twenty years ago) link
― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 11 December 2003 16:46 (twenty years ago) link
― Shangri-La (Shangri-La), Thursday, 11 December 2003 17:57 (twenty years ago) link
Big Daddy KaneGZARedmanBig L (well, could've been...)Scarface
For an entire body of work, Jay-Z is, for me, the most consistent/listenable/enjoyable/what-have-you. There's the typical ILM response someone asked for earlier in the thread.
― Adam Harrison-Friday, Friday, 12 December 2003 01:00 (twenty years ago) link
― Dave Segal (Da ve Segal), Friday, 12 December 2003 02:37 (twenty years ago) link
Big L would definitely be in my Top 5.
― oops (Oops), Friday, 12 December 2003 08:31 (twenty years ago) link
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 12 December 2003 09:22 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 12 December 2003 10:59 (twenty years ago) link
― herbalizer12 (herbalizer12), Friday, 12 December 2003 13:35 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris B. Sure (Chris V), Friday, 12 December 2003 13:55 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris B. Sure (Chris V), Friday, 12 December 2003 13:56 (twenty years ago) link
I'm not sure that "wordplay" is any more or less of a positive quality than flow or rythmic sensibility. Certain MCs who are famed for their "wordplay" tend to grate in their eagerness to please the teacher (Kweli, anyone?), whereas someone with a totally unique voice (Snoop, Dizzee, Redman) can get away with all kinds of shit. Ludacris, when he's good, is probably the best of both worlds.
― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 12 December 2003 15:02 (twenty years ago) link
Premier can make any MC sound good. He makes good MCs (Guru, Ill Bill fr'instance) sound great. He makes great MCs (like um I dunno NAS) sound fanfuckingtastic. I can't wait to hear the track(s) he produced on Cee-Lo's next album.
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 12 December 2003 15:12 (twenty years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 12 December 2003 15:15 (twenty years ago) link
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 12 December 2003 15:18 (twenty years ago) link
― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 12 December 2003 15:19 (twenty years ago) link
― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 12 December 2003 15:21 (twenty years ago) link
I think he can talk about the same topics with consistently interesting vocabulary, never mind his presence, flow, and how enjoyable he is to listen to. Can't be beat on punchlines and he's made at least three excellent albums. If you use Kool Moe Dee's report card for him I think he'd rank near the top of most lists. Though it's a personal thing... I just go back to his stuff, get more out of it, and enjoy a lot of it, more than I can say for a lot of artists. I think the persona he's created makes him more interesting and reveals more as you listen to him. Oh yeah, he's also unbeatable on punchlines. Plus you can argue he got better as he went along. He's a special case. One final thing: he can go from believing he's untouchable to throwing in jokes on tracks and having fun. As you can see, there's something that makes him more interesting to me than most others.
― Adam Harrison-Friday, Friday, 12 December 2003 19:10 (twenty years ago) link
having said that now,Adam you've just made a realgood case for Jay-Z!
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 12 December 2003 19:18 (twenty years ago) link
that guy had a streakthat no one has touched on earth:albums 1-4
sure his later stuffis more hit and miss, but stillhe deserves respect
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 12 December 2003 19:27 (twenty years ago) link
― Buddy Robertson, Monday, 5 January 2004 18:45 (twenty years ago) link
― luk2, Tuesday, 6 January 2004 12:02 (twenty years ago) link
― peckham rye, Tuesday, 6 January 2004 12:09 (twenty years ago) link
― oc12, Friday, 12 March 2004 14:09 (twenty years ago) link
I really like imagining that there's a bunch of old-school fans huddled together in a dark basement somewhere discussing threats to the hegemony - "OK, what are we gonna do about Cassidy, if he keeps making good records our plans for Old School World Domination are gonna be in some deep shit - Mikhail! dig up some dirt on this Cassidy fellow while I listen to this Ultramagnetic MC's 12" I copped on eBay"
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 12 March 2004 14:30 (twenty years ago) link
Cassidy is clearly the GOAT.
― djdee2005, Friday, 12 March 2004 15:54 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Matthews, Saturday, 13 March 2004 21:14 (twenty years ago) link
― Jeff Anderson, Sunday, 28 March 2004 06:44 (twenty years ago) link
2pac at number one?!
― djdee2005, Sunday, 28 March 2004 08:00 (twenty years ago) link
― The Rebukes of Hazard (mjt), Sunday, 28 March 2004 08:24 (twenty years ago) link
How is this unbelievable, by the standards he listed?
― djdee2005, Sunday, 28 March 2004 09:03 (twenty years ago) link
― Broheems (diamond), Sunday, 28 March 2004 12:17 (twenty years ago) link
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Sunday, 28 March 2004 12:38 (twenty years ago) link
― Sdot, Monday, 29 March 2004 00:15 (twenty years ago) link
― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 29 March 2004 05:55 (twenty years ago) link
the acapella of follow the leader stands on it own as a song: http://www.jamglue.com/tracks/47691-Rakim-eric-b-follow-the-leader-acapella
― elan, Monday, 17 November 2008 17:17 (fifteen years ago) link
it seems like Rakim is mostly so widely respected because he was such a game-changer, no? Like, in hip-hop there's kind of a very distinct before/after schism with him in terms of rapping styles (similar to how there's a really clear before/after schism with Run DMC and production styles), but he's hardly the MC I most enjoy listening to or anything like that. I feel like I appreciate him in more of an academic sense than a visceral one. so many guys that came after him have expanded on the foundation he laid down it's hard for me to deny that I prefer them more - they just went farther, have a wider range, regardless of the respect due to the originator.
― glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 20 August 2010 19:36 (thirteen years ago) link
also maybe this is heresy but um some of Eric B's beats are kinda shitty
― glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 20 August 2010 19:37 (thirteen years ago) link
1. rakim hits me totally viscerally -- i think the reason he was a game changer was bcuz he was pushing his style in a more naturalistic direction -- emphasis on 'style,' a highly stylized emphasis on realness instead of artifice ... imo the rappers who move the game forward the most are always breaking new ground in terms of visceral affect
2. eric b didnt actually make most of those beats iirc & they dont suck at all
really surprised to see this from shakey mo, smh (shakey mo head)
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Friday, 20 August 2010 20:00 (thirteen years ago) link
eh I'm just a guy thinkin baout stuff - Rakim's great and all, I love My Melody and I Ain't No Joke and tons of others, I was just ruminating on why he's afforded so much respect and his historic role seems to play a large part, especially when it's coming from other rappers. It's like how 60s rock guys idolized Chuck Berry or Elvis or whoever - this dude was the groundbreaker, the one who made all this other stuff possible. otoh I was listening to Follow the Leader and thinking jeez is this crappy punched-in string sample really necessary Eric...?
― glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 20 August 2010 20:11 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFGICfBmtpY
― Bag Smart, Street Stupid (Eazy), Friday, 20 August 2010 20:11 (thirteen years ago) link
I look at it like this: NO ONE has ever been better at rapping about rapping than Rakim. There are a shit-ton of rappers who have been better at rapping about other stuff than Rakim, but NONE of them have been better at rapping about rapping.
― welcome back, ma$ed god (The Reverend), Friday, 20 August 2010 20:21 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah listening to addictive the other week just hit home to me how 'visceral' my reaction to rakim can be--it feels like my heart stops beating when hes rapping. but i like elvis and chuck berry so maybe im just a herb.
― max, Friday, 20 August 2010 20:23 (thirteen years ago) link
and the thing about addictive is that it came 10+ years after the guys supposed peak
and he doesnt sound out of place or dated at all
NO ONE has ever been better at rapping about rapping than Rakim
this makes sense to me
― glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 20 August 2010 20:25 (thirteen years ago) link
his flow has aged amazingly -- timeless. remember that kanye/premo "classic" track?? he destroys everyone on it
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Friday, 20 August 2010 20:42 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah!!! i love him on "classic"
― horseshoe, Friday, 20 August 2010 20:44 (thirteen years ago) link
i would like to direct people to this classic poll:
What is the most ridiculous thing in the music video for Rakim's "Guess Who's Back"?
― welcome back, ma$ed god (The Reverend), Saturday, 21 August 2010 03:34 (thirteen years ago) link
I think this debate misses the mark. G.O.A.T. status is something attained to but never reached. There will always be someone who takes what the greats have done and builds upon it, thus making him/herself greater. Honestly, I think Eminem is a prime example of this. IMO, the only question relevant to Rakim's legacy is: Has any other emcee had more influence on the craft than Ra? Possibly.
Circa 1981, Moe Dee changed the game when he battled Busy Bee and spawned more imitators than his contemporaries (except maybe Melle Mel). Fast forward to 1986; Ra drops Eric B is President/My Melody and every would be rapper adopted his style of craftsmanship. His became the new standard; even Moe Dee acknowledged "a new sheriff in town."
Since Ra, NWA , B.I.G. & others us new standards for content, but by-and-large, the standard for rap lyric structure today is based upon what Ra reintroduced in 1986. Pioneer fans can tell you Spoonie Gee was using similar rhyme schemes as far back as 1983 ("The Big Beat). But most of the best lyricists of the late '80s and throughout the '90s will name Ra as the most influential on their own styles (check out BET documentary about Rakim http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80598858/).
― hymnagen, Saturday, 27 November 2010 23:42 (thirteen years ago) link
so exactly why did they bother putting Eric B's name on anything?
still find 2/3rds of the beats on Follow the Leader to be terrible tbh
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 18:18 (nine years ago) link
Lol shut up
― bamcquern, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 18:34 (nine years ago) link
I am digging the 18th Letter tho, he's good with that trad boom bap style underneath him
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 22:24 (nine years ago) link
https://x.com/fakeshoredrive/status/1734721230534590469?s=20
― underwater as a compliment (Eazy), Wednesday, 13 December 2023 06:00 (four months ago) link