Is Rakim possibly the best rapper - ever?

anyway, he rocks because of the huge number of rave records that sample him

the doc
erick sermon

I wouldn't say so, he's a great storyteller but his flow isn't particularly impressive, it always sounds kinda same.

Big Daddy Kane
GZA
Redman
Big L (well, could've been...)
Scarface

For an entire body of work, Jay-Z is, for me, the most consistent/listenable/enjoyable/what-have-you. There's the typical ILM response someone asked for earlier in the thread.

Big L would definitely be in my Top 5.

I'm not sure that "wordplay" is any more or less of a positive quality than flow or rythmic sensibility. Certain MCs who are famed for their "wordplay" tend to grate in their eagerness to please the teacher (Kweli, anyone?), whereas someone with a totally unique voice (Snoop, Dizzee, Redman) can get away with all kinds of shit. Ludacris, when he's good, is probably the best of both worlds.

Premier can make any MC sound good. He makes good MCs (Guru, Ill Bill fr'instance) sound great. He makes great MCs (like um I dunno NAS) sound fanfuckingtastic. I can't wait to hear the track(s) he produced on Cee-Lo's next album.

I think he can talk about the same topics with consistently interesting vocabulary, never mind his presence, flow, and how enjoyable he is to listen to. Can't be beat on punchlines and he's made at least three excellent albums. If you use Kool Moe Dee's report card for him I think he'd rank near the top of most lists. Though it's a personal thing... I just go back to his stuff, get more out of it, and enjoy a lot of it, more than I can say for a lot of artists. I think the persona he's created makes him more interesting and reveals more as you listen to him. Oh yeah, he's also unbeatable on punchlines. Plus you can argue he got better as he went along. He's a special case. One final thing: he can go from believing he's untouchable to throwing in jokes on tracks and having fun. As you can see, there's something that makes him more interesting to me than most others.

having said that now,
Adam you've just made a real
good case for Jay-Z!

that guy had a streak
that no one has touched on earth:
albums 1-4

sure his later stuff
is more hit and miss, but still
he deserves respect

I really like imagining that there's a bunch of old-school fans huddled together in a dark basement somewhere discussing threats to the hegemony - "OK, what are we gonna do about Cassidy, if he keeps making good records our plans for Old School World Domination are gonna be in some deep shit - Mikhail! dig up some dirt on this Cassidy fellow while I listen to this Ultramagnetic MC's 12" I copped on eBay"

Cassidy is clearly the GOAT.

2pac at number one?!

1. Rakim
2. Nas (Illmatic)
3. Kool G. Rap
4. Canibus
5. Kane

The internet would have to contain infinite space for me to name all the reasons why Rakim is the greatest

the acapella of follow the leader stands on it own as a song: http://www.jamglue.com/tracks/47691-Rakim-eric-b-follow-the-leader-acapella

it seems like Rakim is mostly so widely respected because he was such a game-changer, no? Like, in hip-hop there's kind of a very distinct before/after schism with him in terms of rapping styles (similar to how there's a really clear before/after schism with Run DMC and production styles), but he's hardly the MC I most enjoy listening to or anything like that. I feel like I appreciate him in more of an academic sense than a visceral one. so many guys that came after him have expanded on the foundation he laid down it's hard for me to deny that I prefer them more - they just went farther, have a wider range, regardless of the respect due to the originator.

also maybe this is heresy but um some of Eric B's beats are kinda shitty

1. rakim hits me totally viscerally -- i think the reason he was a game changer was bcuz he was pushing his style in a more naturalistic direction -- emphasis on 'style,' a highly stylized emphasis on realness instead of artifice ... imo the rappers who move the game forward the most are always breaking new ground in terms of visceral affect

2. eric b didnt actually make most of those beats iirc & they dont suck at all

really surprised to see this from shakey mo, smh (shakey mo head)

eh I'm just a guy thinkin baout stuff - Rakim's great and all, I love My Melody and I Ain't No Joke and tons of others, I was just ruminating on why he's afforded so much respect and his historic role seems to play a large part, especially when it's coming from other rappers. It's like how 60s rock guys idolized Chuck Berry or Elvis or whoever - this dude was the groundbreaker, the one who made all this other stuff possible. otoh I was listening to Follow the Leader and thinking jeez is this crappy punched-in string sample really necessary Eric...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFGICfBmtpY

I look at it like this: NO ONE has ever been better at rapping about rapping than Rakim. There are a shit-ton of rappers who have been better at rapping about other stuff than Rakim, but NONE of them have been better at rapping about rapping.

yeah listening to addictive the other week just hit home to me how 'visceral' my reaction to rakim can be--it feels like my heart stops beating when hes rapping. but i like elvis and chuck berry so maybe im just a herb.

and the thing about addictive is that it came 10+ years after the guys supposed peak

and he doesnt sound out of place or dated at all

NO ONE has ever been better at rapping about rapping than Rakim

this makes sense to me

his flow has aged amazingly -- timeless. remember that kanye/premo "classic" track?? he destroys everyone on it

yeah!!! i love him on "classic"

i would like to direct people to this classic poll:

What is the most ridiculous thing in the music video for Rakim's "Guess Who's Back"?

I think this debate misses the mark. G.O.A.T. status is something attained to but never reached. There will always be someone who takes what the greats have done and builds upon it, thus making him/herself greater. Honestly, I think Eminem is a prime example of this. IMO, the only question relevant to Rakim's legacy is: Has any other emcee had more influence on the craft than Ra? Possibly.

Circa 1981, Moe Dee changed the game when he battled Busy Bee and spawned more imitators than his contemporaries (except maybe Melle Mel). Fast forward to 1986; Ra drops Eric B is President/My Melody and every would be rapper adopted his style of craftsmanship. His became the new standard; even Moe Dee acknowledged "a new sheriff in town."

Since Ra, NWA , B.I.G. & others us new standards for content, but by-and-large, the standard for rap lyric structure today is based upon what Ra reintroduced in 1986. Pioneer fans can tell you Spoonie Gee was using similar rhyme schemes as far back as 1983 ("The Big Beat). But most of the best lyricists of the late '80s and throughout the '90s will name Ra as the most influential on their own styles (check out BET documentary about Rakim http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80598858/).

so exactly why did they bother putting Eric B's name on anything?

still find 2/3rds of the beats on Follow the Leader to be terrible tbh

Lol shut up

I am digging the 18th Letter tho, he's good with that trad boom bap style underneath him

https://x.com/fakeshoredrive/status/1734721230534590469?s=20