Dave Matthews Band : Name Your Reasons Why They Are So Bad & Hated.

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"Yes, they are unexcusably bland and uninteresting to my ears."

are u basing this on songs you have heard on the radio, or have you actually taken the time to listen to one of his cds?

'OMG PLEEEEEASE tell me more about this band "The Darkness"'

they are britsh. haha, the music videos are kinda sketchy but i heart their music. if you like them then also go for 'the dandy warhols' and rhcp... maybe even sublime

erin, Monday, 17 May 2004 20:42 (nineteen years ago) link

Erin, bless your incredibly trusting heart.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:44 (nineteen years ago) link

ok, erin's complete, dewy-eyed faith in humankind has completely converted me. I'm going to go buy "Permission to Land" and "Remember Two Things" right now. Seriously.

dieblucasdie (dieblucasdie), Monday, 17 May 2004 21:59 (nineteen years ago) link

Be bold, sir.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 May 2004 21:59 (nineteen years ago) link

are u basing this on songs you have heard on the radio, or have you actually taken the time to listen to one of his cds?

Trying again, I got halfway through Everyday and promptly fell asleep.

I can't get over how uninteresting they've become. I remember thinking there was at least something interesting there the first time I heard anything from Under the Table....

martin m. (mushrush), Monday, 17 May 2004 22:07 (nineteen years ago) link

o boy, you ppl are mean. im an optimist... kill me. you dont HAVE to like dmb! may i just add (at the risk of being ridiculed by dieblucasdue) that this thread should have never have lasted this long! some ppl like dmb, and others dont... MOVE ON TO SOMETHING A BIT MORE INTELLECTUALLY STIMULATING!!!

erin, Monday, 17 May 2004 22:15 (nineteen years ago) link

Now I'm just confused. You thought I was being nice when I was being mean, and being mean when I was being nice. Seriously, I applaud your optimism.

dieblucasdie (dieblucasdie), Monday, 17 May 2004 22:17 (nineteen years ago) link

iraqi abuse scandal, ne1?


Dieblucasdie- i am not the most intuitive person and i have problems determining srcasm from sincerity thru tone of type!

erin, Monday, 17 May 2004 22:22 (nineteen years ago) link

Erin asked:
are u basing this on songs you have heard on the radio, or have you actually taken the time to listen to one of his cds?

Erin, I'm going to re-post a statement of mine from wa-hey back in 2003 (last June) that addresses your question:

Should it require more than a few CDs and singles to form an opinion of this band? If their readily available material (presumably the music the band felt most satisfied with to represent them) fails to create a favorable impression, why do you have such a seemingly damn hard time fathoming how -- for even a nanosecond -- that you may actually indeed be mistaken in your assertion that the DMB's music is anything other than bog-fucking-standard?

-- Alex in NYC ( vassifer@earthlink.net ), June 14th, 2003.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 17 May 2004 22:22 (nineteen years ago) link

alex- o i am sry, i didnt read that! maybe because i havent been responding to one thread for almost a year now.

erin, Monday, 17 May 2004 22:29 (nineteen years ago) link

It's a dang long thread, Erin, no need for apologies. Moreover, you really shouldn't be taking any of this particularly seriously. I catch massive amounts of grief for much of the stuff like (well, one band in particular). Listen to what you like, and don't worry about it. I don't necessarily lament the DMB, just their idiotic fans who suggest that they re-invented the wheel.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 17 May 2004 22:44 (nineteen years ago) link

haha! thanks, you're right too. i love dmb but the ppl that "woo" really loudly when they hear their name really piss me off. BUT i do want to say that they do put on the best concert that i have ever seen. just imagine how cool it would have been if i had neting better than a lawn seat.


and because i have left like 20 messages today i feel like i need to explain. i am home alone and sick. i finished alphabetizing our refrigerator (achooo) and i started searching for dmb mp3s, this popped up.

erin, Monday, 17 May 2004 23:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Did you find this thread via google or a DMB message board?
Try clicking 'New Answers' at the top of the page for more interesting threads, Erin.

Mr Google, Monday, 17 May 2004 23:07 (nineteen years ago) link

ok. let's settle this once and for all. Dave matthews? he kicks ass. anyone who disagrees can shut up and go listen to some crappy music of their choosing. listen to crash, the whole album, straight through, and u'll understand why dmb kicks ass in every way. thank you for your cooperation.

drew, Monday, 17 May 2004 23:16 (nineteen years ago) link

ok. let's settle this once and for all. Dave matthews? he kicks ass.

Whew. Now I can quit reading this thread.

martin m. (mushrush), Monday, 17 May 2004 23:27 (nineteen years ago) link

Alex, you know you're big when someone will spend an hour in Photoshop just to piss you off.

dieblucasdie (dieblucasdie), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 01:08 (nineteen years ago) link

I have a template

24 hours with the King of Snake. (SNAKE!) (ex machina), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 01:12 (nineteen years ago) link

ok. let's settle this once and for all. Dave matthews? he kicks ass.

thank you God, thank you God, thank you God - I knew if I waited long enough this thread would give me a really hard case of the giggles again

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 01:14 (nineteen years ago) link

That's the best improbable Olsen recommendation yet.

ferg (Ferg), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 02:46 (nineteen years ago) link

erin, idiots like drew are the reason this thread has gone on for so long. Most of us really don't care about Dave Matthews. For me, it's not that I absolutely hate him so much, I'm really not interested in their music .. it does nothing for me. But this thread is entertaining .. to see what kind of "logic" DMB fans are capable of.. (So far, not much - so congratulations for being a DMB fan who isn't a complete moron.)

Dave, being the philanthropist he is, should start sponsoring some English classes as his opening act. He really does have a lot of fans with poor writing skills.

dave225 (Dave225), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 10:44 (nineteen years ago) link

I hear Mary-Kate's getting really into Jandek.

dieblucasdie (dieblucasdie), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 12:02 (nineteen years ago) link

Alex, you know you're big when someone will spend an hour in Photoshop just to piss you off.

Is that what that's supposed to do? I think the world would be an infinetely finer place if Les Twins Olsen immersed themselves in Killing Joke and Devo.

One of them didn't look at all well on SNL the other night.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 14:15 (nineteen years ago) link

idiots like drew are the reason this thread has gone on for so long


hehe- andrew goes to my school. we have known each other since the fourth grade. another thing to consider- i go to school in a really snobbish town in CT (as if CT doesnt imply snobbyness already), and most of the ppl really love dmb. 'crush' was the theme for the junior prom! so for ppl like andrew, its unfathomable that some1 out there DOESNT like dmb. he also flips out if u dislike led zepplin.

erin, Saturday, 22 May 2004 17:44 (nineteen years ago) link

Well, I like Led Zeppelin and I hate DMB, so he'll have to measure that one as he does. ;-)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 22 May 2004 17:50 (nineteen years ago) link

ne1 got ne thoughts on jet? i am thinking about getting their cd and because i am the cheapest person in the world and spending $10 on something i wont like is crazy, i want some feedback to see if their album is ne good.

erin, Saturday, 22 May 2004 18:18 (nineteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...
http://www.suck.com/daily/99/07/02/8.html

Bnad, Wednesday, 16 June 2004 13:00 (nineteen years ago) link

i cannot image any dm fan being physically capable of hurting anyone but themselves.

dyson (dyson), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 18:22 (nineteen years ago) link

The DMB comments were the least funny out of all of them. For instance, from B&S -- The Boy With the Arab Strap:

If it turns out that he's a professional music critic (and if he owns this CD he almost certainly is), odds are that he's a bed-wetter and probably allergic to sex.

Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 18:54 (nineteen years ago) link

Come on people, the 2000th post's in sight...

noodle vague (noodle vague), Monday, 28 June 2004 18:29 (nineteen years ago) link

what other bands require that you "drink the kool-aid" before you can appreciate them? (besides the Grateful Dead). I'm just thinking of similar bands who inspire this fanatical devotion, where their fans just CANNOT comprehend how anyone could contest their musical prowess.

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 28 June 2004 18:32 (nineteen years ago) link

what other bands require that you "drink the kool-aid" before you can appreciate them?
Besides jam bands? Suggestions: Belle and Sebastian, Coldplay.
British indie wimp rock bands are the new jam bands!

Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:48 (nineteen years ago) link

Wow, Barry completely OTM! I mean, wow (at the presented idea, not at Barry being OTM).

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 28 June 2004 20:41 (nineteen years ago) link

that's not true about B&S. Cuz I like their first three records and couldn't care less about the rest, much less endlessly harangue strangers about how unquestionably great they are. Cuz they aren't unquestionably great, their overall musicianship is shit, they aren't worth owning every single thing, etc. And judging by the number of B&S fans who feel completely differently about their catalog than I do, I don't think they can be dismissed as homogenous (at least not like DMB fans and their "they're the greatest musicians in the world! How can you even argue?" position).

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 28 June 2004 21:18 (nineteen years ago) link

i just wanna be part of this. for the record, when i was in 7th grade, i really liked under the table and dreaming and crash. i mean, for a seventh-grader, it was fairly interesting; there were quasi-mature lyrics, vaguely jazz-inflected (read:interesting) arrangements and songs, and a ton of college kids who loved it. i mean, i guess to a sort-of impressionable seventh-grader, college kid adoration was pretty cool...

i think what changed for me was the prospect that there might be something better. many of the hardcore fans of dave matthews are CONVINCED that he is the best musician ever, and that he always will be. i mean, maybe alex thinks killing joke is the best band of all time, and always will be. but i think for most everyone here, and probably for alex, too, real progression is important. i think the community here is great because everyone has heard a lot of different things, and has tastes both deep and broad. i think, from what ive seen of dave matthews fans here, most are still in hero-worship form, and havent quite jumped into any real exploration of popular music. this isnt bad, per se. but it makes a clear disconnect between our critical world and their devotional (appreciative?) world.

i dunno - after hearing more music, i think dave matthews is lazy. i think his lyrics are smug, and that his music is pretty boring. i mean, sometimes, its better than others. but the "pish" cymbal comment is OTM. the smooth jazz criticism is OTM. his music doesnt take any stand whatsoever. it doesnt betray any preference; it just hangs in this blase, complacent lump, where it attracts millions of fans. why should it change? theres a real element of emotional dishonesty to it, i think. i think its cheap. mostly, i think it was after before these crowded streets that he became a real parody of himself. it was then that all these "live with tim reynolds" things came out. if his discography contained only UTT, crash, and BTCS, i feel like they might be a pretty bland MOR band with a somewhat novel style, and a little bit of stylistic evolution. but taken in its real-time lifespan, they become more offensive, with all the negative fan stereotypes, and all the laziness and crass business maneuvering of the man himself.

i mean, MOR is a tough thing for me sometimes. things like rumours are pretty unintuitive to me, in that they seem, on first glance, to be as bland and boring as DMB. but i think the answer ive arrived at is that there is real subtlety in fleetwood mac, that the soft rock belies the artist's investment in the art. thats how i live with myself, i guess.

peter smith (plsmith), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 13:49 (nineteen years ago) link

> judging by the number of B&S fans who feel completely differently about their catalog than I do, I don't think they can be dismissed as homogenous (at least not like DMB fans and their "they're the greatest musicians in the world! How can you even argue?" position

chuck, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 14:57 (nineteen years ago) link

oh fuck it. i was just going to say his music frequently reminds me of the dismemberment plan except not as good, and he reminds me of post-'80 peter gabriel, and he does it better than tv on the radio do, and anybody who thinks i'm bringing in bands that have nothing to do with him has their ostrich head up their ass, and he has decent fiddle parts, and he has potentially interesting instrumentation for one of the biggest bands in the world, and i still really can't stand him since his singing totally sucks, but nick catucci likes some of his songs and dislikes other ones and can make fun of dave as well as anybody, and i doubt nick's the only dave matthews fan you can say that about; you can't really judge the guy's fans by their most bull-headed contingent, i don't think. there are biggie and nirvana fans out there who are just as full of shit, obviously. but who cares.

chuck, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 15:03 (nineteen years ago) link

"British indie wimp rock bands are the new jam bands!"

Especially Gomez, indie Brit wimps who SOUND like a bad jam band!

(In the United States, noise bands might be the new jam bands. Or maybe American indie wimp emo bands. Or maybe alternative rap groups. Or alt country bands. Or the Flaming Lips. Or something else.)

chuck, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 15:10 (nineteen years ago) link

oh chuck, you're so cute when you're bitchy (in a David Cross kind of way).

"(In the United States, noise bands might be the new jam bands. Or maybe American indie wimp emo bands. Or maybe alternative rap groups. Or alt country bands. Or the Flaming Lips. Or something else.) "

Seems to me the only things these genres/bands have in common is that in general you don't like them.

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 15:16 (nineteen years ago) link

No, Shakey, actually I do like some of those categories sometimes, so you're full of shit as usual. What they have in common is that they all have rabid fans who can't imagine why anybody wouldn't like them, just like Dave Matthews' rabid fans. (So do fans of lots of bands I like even *more*, probably.) As for smugness, Dave's voice sounds way less smug than, say, Tupac's, who gets way more of a free ride from critics. And in interviews I've read, Dave comes off kinda charming. So I'm not sure where his smugness is supposed to come from (though maybe if I read this entire thread I'd understand more -- or maybe if I saw him play live; who knows). His best songs aren't anywhere near as good as Counting Crows' or Spin Doctors' best songs. They may well be as good as Phish's or .moe's best songs, though. And they're definitely a lot better than lots of indie rock bands' best songs. So yeah, I'm still kind of confused why people seem to hate him so much. He's not nearly the worst or least intersting music out there.

chuck, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 15:22 (nineteen years ago) link

Actually, all the subgenres I nominated frequently emphasize virtuosity and spontaneity and transcendence and complexity and authenticity and stuff like that in the way jam bands do, as well. Most of them have seemed to head in a jammy direction lately. So yeah, Shakey, they DO belong together, even if you refuse to see it.

chuck, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 15:28 (nineteen years ago) link

"No, Shakey, actually I do like some of those categories sometimes, so you're full of shit as usual."

ahh c'mon, you've given us yr anti-y'allternative rap a million times and you know it.

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 15:30 (nineteen years ago) link

Ok, I see:

1. I criticize one of the genres a lot.

therefore

2. I must not like any of them.

Can't argue with that logic, I guess!

chuck, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 15:56 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm not gonna bother searching for posts on other threads where you disparage the Flaming Lips, undie rap, emo, or noise bands - suffice to say I know you've done it and I just don't care that much to spend the effort to go point by point in order to somehow categorically and empirically prove that you're basically just a reactionary provocateur.

But I wouldn't mind a little more of your ludicrous "Chambers Brothers are dub metal" spiel. That shit was funny.

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 16:05 (nineteen years ago) link

Really?

Then post here and explain what's so "ridiculous" about it, moron:

RFI : Dub metal

chuck, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 16:10 (nineteen years ago) link

I mean, do you EVER argue with people's actual *idea*s -- as, in what they actually SAY -- instead of your bizarre paranoid perceptions of their intentions behind those ideas, shakey? maybe you do; i dunno, usually i find your posts on this board completely ignorable, so it's possible, i guess. but if not, you might try it some time.

chuck, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 16:15 (nineteen years ago) link

I like the drumming on the one Dave Matthews album I have.

BTW, in the UK 'undie' is another word for 'pants'.

mei (mei), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 16:27 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't think they can be dismissed as homogenous (at least not like DMB fans and their "they're the greatest musicians in the world!
Shakey, I was thinking along the lines of your "drinking the cool-aid" comment -- I wasn't referring to the specific props given to DMB from his cult (about his musicianship, range of styles, etc.)
With B&S and Coldplay, their fans (who represent a wide-reaching demographic) rattle on about how their songs have changed their lives, how deeply they're touched by their albums, and how they haven't felt that way about any band since the Smiths.
On the other hand, the non-kool aid drinkers don't "get" those bands AT ALL, to the point of not being able to stand any of their music.

Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 16:28 (nineteen years ago) link


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