RFI : Dub metal

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Is there such thing as dub metal?

If so, what does it sound like? Who does it? Does it work as a concept? Which bits come from dub and which bits are metal?

― phil jones (interstar), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 17:51 (7 years ago) Permalink

― gygax!, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 17:58 (7 years ago) Permalink

i would say blind idiot god but i don't think they were any good, really

― bob snoom, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:05 (7 years ago) Permalink

Damn you gygax for being so quick on the draw!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:05 (7 years ago) Permalink

Check *The Accidental Evolution of Rock'n'Roll,* by, um, me, pages 288-294; "A Brief History of Dub Metal." Seminal examples: Chambers Brothers' "Time Has Come Today," Black Sabbath's "FX," Led Zep's "Whole Lotta Love," Funkadelic's *Funkadelic* album. More recent notables: Young Gods, Bad Brains, Celtic Frost, Butthole Surfers, Blind Idiot God, KMFDM, Chain Gang, Def Lep's "Rocket," etc.

Also, you might want to read this, by ILM person Frank Kogan:

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0252/kogan.php

― chuck, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:00 (7 years ago) Permalink

He calls Chambers Brothers' "Time Has Come Today" metal, hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

― hstencil, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:05 (7 years ago) Permalink

I keep remembering there are people who haven't read Stairway to Hell.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:05 (7 years ago) Permalink

hstencil your levels of "not getting it" are reaching critical mass.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:06 (7 years ago) Permalink

Whatever, the idea that "Time Has Come Today" is dub metal is, at best, revisionist. Of course, I haven't read Mr. Eddy's esteemed publication, so I can only comment regarding the context of this thread, but hey, sue me.

Also:

1. Aren't you like "gone" from here, jess? Don't you have "better things to do?"

2. If I'm "not getting it," why don't you help me out then, champ? I mean, why do you write about music anyway?

― hstencil, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:09 (7 years ago) Permalink

1. usually. but it's my day off.

2. money.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:11 (7 years ago) Permalink

Wait, so hstencil, I really wanna know: What ISN'T metal about that Chambers Brothers song? Like, that they wore the wrong clothes or something? Please explain this to me. I really wanna know.

― chuck, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:13 (7 years ago) Permalink

I mean, the guitars are metal, and the echoes are dub. It's pretty fucking simple, you know?

― chuck, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

Hstencil, have you heard the full, album-length version of the Chambers Bros. tune? Or just the radio friendly single version?

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

think "jennifer" from faust IV = dub metal (in that order, flavored with prog and noise).

― gygax!, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

I hear it as being more in the vein of other heavy-guitar pop of the time, i.e. Kinks, Yardbirds, Electric Prunes, etc. Maybe a starting point for metal, but not metal.

Clothes have nothing to do with it for me, but maybe it does for you, I dunno.

I own the album.

― hstencil, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:16 (7 years ago) Permalink

Answer the first part of question 2, jess.

― hstencil, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:16 (7 years ago) Permalink

Silly me, I was thinking of the Hudson Brothers. They're definitely not dub-metal.

― die9o (dhadis), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

gygax!, have you heard the full, album-length version of the Faust tune? Or just the radio friendly single version?

― hstencil, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

I thought all Faust was radio friendly.

― die9o (dhadis), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:18 (7 years ago) Permalink

I was just joshin' with gygax!. There's nothing about "Jennifer" that sounds metal at all to me.

― hstencil, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:21 (7 years ago) Permalink

never heard the single version, i'd like to though.

the end of it is noisy metallic feedback squallor... isn't it?

― gygax!, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:22 (7 years ago) Permalink

"Seminal" would seem to *imply* "a starting point." The Chamber Bros. album came out the same year as the first Hendrix album, and I guess some stupid people would call Hendrix "not metal," too. (Then again, I suppose some *smart* people might also call Slayer "heavy guitar pop," seeing how they're heavy, and have guitars, and are popular.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

Sorry Chuck, Hendrix didn't use a JCM 900, thus Hendrix is not metal.

― die9o (dhadis), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:27 (7 years ago) Permalink

(...which would of course mean that metal didn't exist before 1990 or so.)

― die9o (dhadis), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:27 (7 years ago) Permalink

I think there's lots of big obvious musical differences between the Chamber Brothers and Led Zep or Black Sabbath, differences your list don't address. If you're just gonna present a bunch of disparate stuff as a list with no explanation, well then I guess what's the harm in me laughing (in what I thought was initially a pretty harmless way) at it? Why do you write about music? Is it to explain what you think about music to people? Or is it just to make lists and leave it at that?

I may be "stupid" but I wouldn't call Hendrix metal, either. Certainly a "starting point" or a "seminal influence" on metal, but not metal.

Re: the Slayer comment - that's just ridiculous. If I was more into the idea of taking your worthless flame bait, I'd just say "fuck you." Not much point in that, but hey you're the "author," so maybe dialogues aren't exactly what you're looking for.

― hstencil, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:33 (7 years ago) Permalink

Well, I thought my answers were harmless too, but whatever...Look, there are also big obvious musical SIMILARITIES between Zep, Sabbath, and that Chambers Brothers song (and Hendrix.) (Mostly in the guitars, as I said somewhere above, but also probably in the basslines, the melodies, the singing, etc.) And to my ears, by my definition (which I HAVE explained to people, for, like, 20 years, and in two whole books to start with), those similarities are what make them all heavy metal. Obviously you don't *really* have to be stupid to disagree with me (I was joking -- thought the Slayer line made *that* obvious, and sorry if it seemed otherwise), but again, I'm still curious which "big obvious musicial differences" you're referring to make Hendrix and the Chamber Brothers not metal. They're both pretty noisy and psychedelic in '60s guitar pop terms, seems to me -- even compared to, say, the Yardbirds or "I Had to Much to Dream Last Night" (both of which are even *more* seminal metal, I suppose.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:50 (7 years ago) Permalink

Hendrix may even be more proto-metal for his singing than his guitar playing. hard to imagine a Mark Farner type chest-beater without the Hendrix example on a song like "Foxey Lady".

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 20:06 (7 years ago) Permalink

They're both pretty noisy and psychedelic in '60s guitar pop terms, seems to me -- even compared to, say, the Yardbirds or "I Had to Much to Dream Last Night" (both of which are even *more* seminal metal, I suppose.)

Okay, so I think we agree in a way, just differ in that Chambers Brothers/Hendrix/Yardbirds/Prunes seem proto-metal to me, as opposed to Led Zep/Black Sab/etc. as metal. I dunno if I can explain it just yet, and I know je ne sais quoi is a cop-out, so gimme some time and I'll see what I come up with.

― hstencil, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 20:07 (7 years ago) Permalink

hstencil, i thought i did.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 20:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

You haven't helped me "get" anything, jess.

― hstencil, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 20:32 (7 years ago) Permalink

stop the fussing.

what about Painkiller?? zorn, laswell and harris. there are the definite dub moments

― JasonD (JasonD), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 21:22 (7 years ago) Permalink

does sublime have any dub/metal songs?

― gygax!, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 21:27 (7 years ago) Permalink

hstencil, i will try to spell it out for you as baldly as possible:

my answer to question 2 stands for both parts.

your lack of...actually i don't even know what it is...wit?, suspension of disbelief?, fantasy?, fancy?, ability to step outside of literalist/fact-checker self-parody?...is depressing to say the least.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 21:35 (7 years ago) Permalink

gee, thanks jess.

― hstencil, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 21:39 (7 years ago) Permalink

yeah, yeah, that was probably a step too far, i apologize.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 21:42 (7 years ago) Permalink

Probably. It's not up to you as to how "seriously" or not I take what I read or post on ILM. That you won't even cede that I could possibly be taking the piss every once in a while, and that you don't get it, is pretty insulting, but hey, it's your problem, not mine.

Besides, can't we discuss more important things, like what the implications are of Shania Twain wearing a Ramones t-shirt?

― hstencil, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 21:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

i mean, i stand by it, but i let myself get carried away. besides, i think its pretty disingenuous of the two of us to pretend we're best pals.

so what's the difference between indie-dub and dub metal? (aside from y'know, the way the songs are written/sound.)

i always thought of "jennifer" as canterbury dub.

(haha hstencil - re. the post between my last one and this one - i think i do a good enough job pointing out my own stupidity ("not getting it") in my writing - consciously or not - for everyone.)

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 21:50 (7 years ago) Permalink

maybe not best pals, but hey I don't know you, you don't know me. I haven't made a point of taking potshots at you. Maybe I have in the past, I don't remember, but if I did it's never been to the extent that other FMBB-related people did (and I think that's where the animosity comes from, even though any time spent over there would make it clear that no two people on that board think/post alike, same as here). Perhaps what you find to be my "inability" is really just me trying to squeeze more clarity out of some of what I read here? Dunno. I suppose if I thought it was worth my time I could berate other posters for their "crimes" against my tastes or whatever, but I don't. I'm pretty happy to just read what's written, then interject if/when I want to. I don't think how I behave here should be taken that seriously (lord knows I don't take it that seriously), but then again it's patently unfair for me to get taken to task just for having a different opinion or conviction than someone else. In the context of this thread, I have to believe that I'm not the only person in the world who would disagree that the Chambers Brothers or Hendrix are metal, but I think I've already expressed that, so on to the rest...

Indie-dub? Dub metal? No idea. What's indie-dub, anyway? Like, uh, Jan Jelinek or something? Seriously, I have no idea.

The Canterbury dub thing is funny 'cause I was going to make a joke upthread (but never got around to it) that "Jennifer" is progressive dub.

― hstencil, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:08 (7 years ago) Permalink

shit, why didn't I look at this thread sooner? I actually get to see Chuck debate his stance on metal! At first I assumed this was about like, metal metal. Bands with names like Sheufiosfos Incarnate. Rising Debylum. Keel.

I'm still iffy on the concept of dub itself. So, like, all echo-effects are "dub"? Why do they get first dibs and not, I dunno, Joe Meek or somebody? Did they invent the equipment or something? I used dub-metal in my Good Charlotte review mainly because I'm except Chuck's def. to describe what GC lifted from Lep (and how!) but I'm still a little iffy on it.

Iffy is the word of the day, btw.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

This confuses me, greatly:

because I'm except Chuck's def. to describe what GC lifted from Lep (and how!) but I'm still a little iffy on it.

One thing I'm unclear with is how these dub metal progenitors might have influenced the dub side of the equation, as opposed to the metal side. I mean, hey we know Led Zep might have heard Yardbirds et al (esp. as Page was their guitarist!), but did Lee Perry ever hear the Chambers Brothers?

― hstencil, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:21 (7 years ago) Permalink

gah! what a typo I made. "except" should be uh..."I'm accepting Chuck's def. in order to describe what GC lifted".

hstencil, this is the first rule of chuck club: associations will be based not on actual history, but sonic similarity.

Which is part of what I love about it, since what we hear is a lot more important purchase-wise than when things happened. Hence, Chambers Brothers is metal if it SOUNDS like metal.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

Quite so. In a word, RAWK.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:43 (7 years ago) Permalink

so, sidestepping the RAWK genre, Wynton Marsalis is bop because his music sounds bop?

Ugh. Guess this is one club I'll never be in.

― hstencil, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

Wynton Marsalis is bop because his music sounds bop?

Why wouldn't it be? It could be particularly crap bop in the mind's eye.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:57 (7 years ago) Permalink

It wouldn't be because I think of bop in historical terms, i.e. what like 1947-1959 or so?

― hstencil, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 23:01 (7 years ago) Permalink

Also if everyone except me agrees that music can be thought of ahistorically, then I never ever wanna see another thread again about how so-and-so genre "is dead."

― hstencil, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 23:02 (7 years ago) Permalink

boogie woogie is dead

― gygax!, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 23:23 (7 years ago) Permalink

Ragtime is even deader.

It wouldn't be because I think of bop in historical terms, i.e. what like 1947-1959 or so?

Yes, but consider all the threads on what 'punk' is. Was it framed in a time or not?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 23:28 (7 years ago) Permalink

"He calls Chambers Brothers' 'Time Has Come Today' metal, hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!"

I've never (to my knowledge) heard the Chambers Bros, or even OF them. Your comment tells me exactly zilch about them, hstencil, but it tells me a lot about you: that you are, or like to come across as, snotty and derisive. Way to go. Of course there are going to be differences with bands you see as "real metal", like Sabbath. I mean otherwise we'd only need one metal band ever! Why not try and figure out what those are instead of contemptuously slamming the lock back onto hstencil's Approved Genre Guide to All Music. We don't come here to lock down categories, we come here to think, and change our thinking (and talk about kittens occasionally)

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 23:44 (7 years ago) Permalink

I think it helps to be somewhat familiar with Mr. Eddy's writing style / the "stairway" bk (as hstencil admitted he was not). Maybe "writing project" is more like it. He can certainly be maddening but that's the fun!

I guess I just couldn't understand why hstencil laughs at the guy (out of nowhere) adding nothing to the conversation. Then berates jess and chuck for not fully explaining themselves and says maybe dialogues aren't exactly what you're looking for.

I mean, if a dialogue is what you want, "hahahahhahahahahahaahhA" isn't exactly the most graceful opening line.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 23:54 (7 years ago) Permalink

Skipping 52 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

okay, so anything that's not a lead instrument (singer, melody, lead guitar) is not ANYTHING, or maybe a ghost?

― gygax!, Friday, 24 January 2003 02:20 (7 years ago) Permalink

or is that strictly in reference to my center (chocolate tootsie goodness btw)?

― gygax!, Friday, 24 January 2003 02:21 (7 years ago) Permalink

I'm with you Siegbran - I thought Celtic Frost peaked with the amazing "Tragic Serenades" EP

Warrior's book came off as a bit over-selfeffacing -- kind of charming, insofar as he wants to attribute any of their success to various small triumphs of blind chance over adversity, but that whole schtick ages a bit & one gets the sense that underneath it lies the conviction that given the right people around him, his troo genius will flare up and be visible to all

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 24 January 2003 02:23 (7 years ago) Permalink

it's not a logical fallacy, it's an argument: a way of saying this is connected with that

someone who includes hendrix in metal is making a claim about hendrix and a claim about metal (like it "in fact developed as a genre earlier than it got its name" for example)

the adequate argumentative response to (let's say) "i don't consider anything to be dub that wasn't made before 1969" is "well i do" => since the interesting thing in either case has to be the substantive reason for the limits being claimed, rather than the digits making up the year

genre that isn't animated by argument and concomitant social mutation is basically a co-opted marketing device

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 24 January 2003 02:41 (7 years ago) Permalink

wot mark said

― gaz (gaz), Friday, 24 January 2003 02:45 (7 years ago) Permalink

Hendrix might be metal but he sure ain't fuckin' heavy. Too much syncopation, too much counterpoint. If something can be 'metal' but not 'heavy' then is the word 'metal' worth anything?

― dave q, Friday, 24 January 2003 07:44 (7 years ago) Permalink

genre that isn't animated by argument and concomitant social mutation is basically a co-opted marketing device

well i'd agree except i'll take co-opted to mean "removed from the living genre" and "marketing device" to mean "and then used as an empty brand to sell things" except that people don't buy empty brands only brands which resonate with them so a genre which can be used to market is one which IS still animated by argument, mainly I think.

a genre which is "dead" is a novelty.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 24 January 2003 08:12 (7 years ago) Permalink

Re: Kogan's piece in the Voice:

I like what he's getting at generally, but have a pretty hard time trying to follow his examples without having heard any of 'em. Maybe the Voice should start posting sound samples along with its music pieces.

― J. Sot (J. Sot), Friday, 24 January 2003 08:29 (7 years ago) Permalink

Dub=potent ganja + HEAVY bass + creative use of recording studio space

Metal=bad pot + cheap beer + LOUD guitars + creative use of recording studio space

Dub-Meal=potent pot + cheap beer + heavy guitar + LOUD bass + creative use of recording studio space

Except, of course, when it doesn't.

― J. Sot (J. Sot), Friday, 24 January 2003 12:05 (7 years ago) Permalink

Godflesh and Controlled Bleeding and Scorn are all in the same dub metal boat and I like/or liked that boat once/forever. Blind Idiot God used to seperate the dub on one side metal on the other,no? Didn't actually combine them. I would say early Swans only cuz the drums were recorded so loud that they created some sort of dub undertow in their wake.Has their ever been an actual Jamaican metal band of note? Or ever? I'd pay to hear that!

― Scott Seward, Friday, 24 January 2003 15:36 (7 years ago) Permalink

(Gygax just hurt my head something fierce: surely if "lead" instruments tend to go in the "center" -- and then you remove them -- you're left without anything in the center?)

(Tracer also sort of hurt my head too: I could be way off but it seems to me like most dub bass lines stop mid-bar -- and then sort of tickle themselves back up to the one-beat.)

(I haven't looked over any of the pieces referenced but that big-space / empty-center description of dub seem really intuitively correct to me as a definition of what "dub" as a broad approach -- and not an historical genre -- can mean.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 24 January 2003 20:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

Hey! Inspired by Hstencil's "SO FUCKING IMPORTANT!" line, I just remembered another fine piece of dub-metal: Husker Du's "What's Going On"

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 24 January 2003 22:53 (7 years ago) Permalink

hmmm...don't think so myself.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 24 January 2003 22:54 (7 years ago) Permalink

I'm stretching it I'll admit (rubbery bassline, lots of echo), but damn if that's not the song that came to mind right then.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 24 January 2003 23:01 (7 years ago) Permalink

Q for my own clarification: how close do you guys think this sort of stuff falls to what we could call "desert" (but not quite "stoner") rock?

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 24 January 2003 23:04 (7 years ago) Permalink

it seems to me like most dub bass lines stop mid-bar

yeah, i was saying the bassline was dub/reggae. it was surprising i guess because the riff in question is so inflexible, inna metal style - each time it repeats it's note-for-note the same - yet had all these other characteristics in common with a dub approach.

it seems to me the main disjunct here is between Dub as a historical and cultural phenomenon in Jamaica - a canonical dub -and the sorts of strategies and vibes that fed it, and that feed off it (remember that the flip side of many madonna singles reveals a "dub" version). i don't see why it's not possible to talk about both though.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 24 January 2003 23:43 (7 years ago) Permalink

Late contender in the "hahaha you could totally make an argument that that's dub metal" game: "Crimson and Clover!" I heard it while bowling tonight and it made me think of this thread.

― nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, 25 January 2003 08:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

(Okay not really but it was a funny thing to think about. Obviously I mean the Joan Jett version, though it was the Tommy James I actually heard.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, 25 January 2003 08:28 (7 years ago) Permalink

Actually, there's a version by this south american psych band Aguaturbia that is totally heavy and stretched-out! Can't recall if it uses any interesting production techniques, but lemme give it a listen...

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 25 January 2003 08:43 (7 years ago) Permalink

...actually nope, no dub in sight! In fact, it wasn't even as heavy as I recalled. I guess I was thinking about the long jammy middle section, the most interesting part of which is the way the drummer totally loses the beat and just starts flailing away!! Man, that was great, it made my night! thanks for giving me the impulse to dig that one up again..

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 25 January 2003 08:50 (7 years ago) Permalink

earth 2?

― bob snoom, Sunday, 26 January 2003 13:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

gor!!

― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 26 January 2003 15:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

so i just picked up 'the time has come" by the chambers brothers today because of this thread

a) what a fuck-tabulous song!!

b) i whole heartedly think i agree that it is dub metal. in the same sense that in a gadda da vida could be considered (proto)metal

― JasonD (JasonD), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 06:13 (7 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

I have a damaged Squirrel Bait tape that sounds like dub metal. You can occasionally hear the Buzzcocks coming through fom the other side.

― christhamrin (christhamrin), Thursday, 3 June 2004 19:38 (6 years ago) Permalink

ICE

― sexyDancer, Thursday, 3 June 2004 19:46 (6 years ago) Permalink

Sorry if this is an idiotic question, but I've been to the FAQ and have tried to figure it out from context:

What does RFI stand for?

― Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Thursday, 3 June 2004 20:05 (6 years ago) Permalink

FYI - it means Request For Information

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 3 June 2004 20:12 (6 years ago) Permalink

Thank yew.

― Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Thursday, 3 June 2004 20:28 (6 years ago) Permalink

ICE

seriously.

― el sabor de gene (yournullfame), Friday, 4 June 2004 01:38 (6 years ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

One philosophy, or attitude to life, which dub and metal might have in common, is a love of Armageddon fantasies.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:50 (6 years ago) Permalink

Yep -- here are the affinities that I guessed that metal and dub shared in my second book: "noise, slowness, apocalypse, marijuana use, cumbersome basslines."

And I wrote about some very recent dub-metal here, by the way:

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0414/eddy.php

and here:

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0424/eddy1.php

and here:

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0415/eddy.php

― chuck, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 19:03 (6 years ago) Permalink

lawndale - sasquatch rock has more than a few moments of dub metal.

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 19:07 (6 years ago) Permalink

To Dub War I'll add their sequel, Skindred.

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 22:23 (6 years ago) Permalink

And Naked Truth.

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 22:27 (6 years ago) Permalink

Skindred are a fucking bunch of cockfarmers.

― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:46 (6 years ago) Permalink

4 years pass...

Queen, "Get Down Make Love"

― xhuxk, Thursday, 18 December 2008 18:59 (1 year ago) Permalink

it know it couldn't be more obvious but DUB TRIO DUB TRIO DUB TRIO

― Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Thursday, 18 December 2008 19:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

Leviathan "Massive conspiracy against all life"

Chrome "Third from the sun" and just about anything afterwards . .

― Soukesian, Thursday, 18 December 2008 19:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'm really enjoying this new dubstep album by Distance, Repercussions. The track "Koncrete" in particular uses thrash metal irregular rhythms and grinding textures, but it's aired out over a slower beat.

― bendy, Thursday, 18 December 2008 20:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

Bunkur.

It's weird to read the debates upthread, from days of old. Like how people in the 70s thought metal was some totally different thing, and then the total deathless tenacity of the concept. Which is very metal (deathlessness), so fair enough. But definitely weird.

― Bored American Aerospace Defense Command (BORAD) (contenderizer), Thursday, 18 December 2008 21:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

And also, speaking of Leviathan, Lurker of Chalice.

― Bored American Aerospace Defense Command (BORAD) (contenderizer), Thursday, 18 December 2008 21:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

Ambient/depressive BM kind of parallels dub already in its use of degraded recording and tons of reverb. Wrest seems to be making the link explicit,

― Soukesian, Thursday, 18 December 2008 21:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

― Soukesian, Thursday, 18 December 2008 21:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

Here's the Distance track

― bendy, Thursday, 18 December 2008 22:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

Nina Hagen also does this some on her Unbehagen EP from 1979 (and probably elsewhere), though mostly she seems to keep her dub and metal in separate songs. (Also, as far as I can tell, the word "African" in the title of her song "African Reggae" pretty much translates as "German".)

― xhuxk, Monday, 5 January 2009 14:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

Some early Therapy? stuff I'd argue fits into the Dub Metal category.

― Treblekicker, Monday, 5 January 2009 15:03 (1 year ago) Permalink

As Jordan said above, DUB TRIO !!! Wow, what a band.

― Daniel Giraffe, Monday, 5 January 2009 22:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

i may be high, but parts of dude's Black Shabbis may qualify here somewhat.

here's all i could find via u-tube:

― 51 SBs and there's nothing on (Ioannis), Tuesday, 10 March 2009 12:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

7 months pass...

Nazareth, "You Love Another" (on 2XS, 1982).

― xhuxk, Tuesday, 3 November 2009 17:52 (10 months ago) Permalink

6 months pass...

Would definitely place Basement 5's confusingly titled only album 1965 - 1980 (Antilles, 1981) in this genre, by the way. Sounds like Killing Joke's debut LP gone dub, basically -- which makes sense, given that the drummer used to be in Public Image Ltd. and the guitar player was a reggae guy, and dreadlocks were involved. Martin Hannett produced.

― xhuxk, Friday, 28 May 2010 01:34 (3 months ago) Permalink

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