Smashing Pumpkins - Siamese Dream poll

forever and always: "Mayonaise."

"Hummer"

The first half is a 90s rock classic. The second half SUCKS.

ehh kinda...definitely is half-expendable that's for sure

I'm gonna vote Mayonaise

The first half is a 90s rock classic. The second half SUCKS.

So wrong.

Perfect album. Voting "Mayonaise," which should win. "Today" is a close second - what an amazing song!

siamese dream & purple rain in the same week.... too many brainbusters

sticking w/ basics: Cherub Rock

Geek USA. tracks 7/8/9 make for an epic run.

Disarm narrowly over Mayonaise, but it's close.

Best thing about Butch Vig's work on this was that he managed to reduce Corgan's voice to a wisp for most of it - made it easier to enjoy the good things about the band without the appallingly obnoxious one constantly getting in the way.

Not the classic SP album it's made out to be. I'd actually rate Gish, Mellon Collie and maybe even Adore above this one. That said, Soma is an amazing song.

"Soma" kicks my ass every time. definitely my vote.

^

Really won't trust ilm anymore if the top two is not 1. Soma 2. Mayonaise

Not that I've had any respect for you fruits since you voted for the Smiths over the Cure, but whatever.

The second half SUCKS.

Waht fresh madness is this?

Everything a contender except Quiet, Rocket, Luna. Hummer loses points for only becoming transcendent in the last couple of minutes. But really... Mayonaise no question.

I rank 'em:

1. soma
2. geek u.s.a.
3. rocket
4. silverfuck
5. quiet
6. hummer
7. sweet sweet
8. cherub rock
9. mayonaise
10. today
11. disarm
12. luna
13. spaceboy

and I love all of them

I played my 17-year-old copy of this, shittily copied onto a shit tape, on a shitawful car stereo a few weeks ago, and was filled with a shitawfully shameful sense of nostalgia

it ruled but 'Geek USA' is the song that I still have various parts of running through my head as a result, so I voted that

def need to dig this out again soon. I have a real soft spot for Sweet Sweet and Luna - ideas they'd protract on the last part of the follow up record.

I haven't listened to this album in way too long and would like to vote for a deep cut (especially since "Hummer" was one of the few highlights of the show I saw last year), but I gotta go with "Rocket," which I am still kind of bitter wasn't as big a hit as the other singles.

I'm kinda curious which is Ned's favorite.

Voted MAYO

Voting "Mayonaise", but man Mr. Snrub could not be more wrong about the second half being made of SUCK. "Mayo" and "Silverfuck" are among two of the best songs from this era. I think this is probably my most listened to album ever.

imo this is only 2nd to Superunknown as the best of the big '90s alt-rock blockbusters

Nah, this is marginally better than Superunknown, but I'm with you on these two being the tops.

mayonaise
soma
rocket
today
quiet
hummer
sweet sweet
cherub rock
disarm
spaceboy
geek usa
luna
silverfuck

"Silverfuck" way too low.

more like stupidfuck

lol zing

"Soma" or "Hummer". I guess I lean a little towards the former...

Between "Quiet" and "Mayonaise" for me.

Mayonaise. Although I'm not a big fan of these guys in general.

i hope i never stumble upon a lyric sheet for this album, it almost killed my love of "Cherub Rock" when i realized what the words to the chorus are and that they're even worse than "life's a bummer when you're a hummer"

Ha, OTM.

i love this whole album, don't care what anyone sez

Kudos to Alan Moulder, for mixing this like a pop My Bloody Valentine album.

Hummer in all its shining glory. One of my all-time favourite tracks for sure.

I think this must be the album I played most in my life, and seeing that I will never equal that kind of lol-teenage compulsive listening again, it will forever live on as the album I played most.

I have very strong memories of being on a summer tour with my college choir when this came out, listening to it on my buddy's Discman. Because of first impressions, I'm voting "Silverfuck".

"Silverfuck" is probably the greatest encapsulation of what the Pumpkins were doing at the time.

...or it's a big loud dumb mashup of better songs from this album. Compared to almost every other 7+ Pumpkins song* it comes off as incredibly weak and obvious.

*I can't say for any of the Machinas' songs. I haven't listened to either one...

7+ minute

or it's a big loud dumb mashup of better songs from this album

thank you for succinctly describing why this song is awesome

LOL @ DJP

on second thought,Silverfuck & Geek USA could probably switch places on my little rundown upthread...Silverfuck is a longer, gaucher Geek USA, but that "you lie to yourself" part (the only dece part of the song) goes on for a couple of minutes, whereas the "in a dream we are connected" break in Geek USA is too short...I actually don't like this album that much, and a big part of that is bcz I think most of the Billy's nods to 'metal' on here are kind of trite...exception here is Quiet, which is an absolute fucking monster of a song...

Mayonaise is better, though: SD's 1979, Billy hitting a good feeling & riding it out, not at all calling attention to the numerous songwriting left-turns he employs, each one keeping the vibe going while at the same time subtly raising the stakes, building tension to the climax: "I JUST WANNNA BEEEE...MEEEE....!" Prindle goes on about that little "SKREE!" bit of distortion, which is a great hook, and used really well in the song, while at the same time implying the emotional turbulence that "Silverfuck" rather clunkily tries to embody

Song is a pop masterpiece; likely the best thing Billy ever did.

I'm kinda curious which is Ned's favorite.

Don't think I have one. I stand by all this.

i listened to this album this week, it was fantastic with all those memories come flowing through. it has held up really, really well to be honest. i remember at the time thinking that this album would be the best ever and would be hard to top. not sure if the Pumpkins released a better album, though i did like a bunch of their later songs.

just putting this on now in honor of the poll here. will report back soon

wtf:
'happiness will make you wonder will i feel ok'

i must give a shout-out to those strange photographs what with the lyrics all scribbled on them in the booklet.

There is half an album's worth of gold. Most of the 2nd half is garbage.

Be surprised if Soma doesn't win.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

soma has that guitar solo so

^^

voted geek USA, though. Soaring epic followed by bludgeoning epic

I don't have a working cassette deck to play the 1989 demo tape that comes in the Pisces Iscariot box, but of course I found it on YouTube... some real Cure influence happening back then, huh?

It's not that he isn't James LaBrie, it's that sometimes he sounds like he's recreating a scene from Deliverance.

His voice can be unpleasant as hell to listen to. I like SP but I don't begrudge someone who can't get past his voice.

I mean, Kurt Cobain wasn't exactly Mario Lanza and generally people like his vocals.

should have gotten the guy from Smash Mouth if he really wanted to sell to the masses

We've talked about it a lot but in the context of the music, I really like what he did pre-95. After that point, his voice got really unpleasant for me and was also foregrounded in the mix a lot more.

I mean, I probably would like Kurt Cobain or Chris Cornell better on "Tonight Tonight".

iirc the mcis vocal takes are all flood egging billy on and getting this deliberately raw and in your face and ott performance but i still think moments like "galapogos" are really lovely (and moments like "in the arms of sleep" are.... very rough)

adore has his best vocals but ofc they're not always cushioned by guitar noise and they are really mixed upfront

Kurt doing "Tonight Tonight" is extremely funny when I play it out in my brain

I mean, it was off the top of my head and Cornell might have been a better example but I don't really think his ballad voice would have been more ridiculous than what's actually on the record.

"And they all want you to change..." ;)

Kurt doing "Tonight, Tonight" would probably involve him screaming part of it an octave higher for no reason at one random point

Replace "an octave higher" with "out of tune" and that's what it sounds like to me rn.

I’m having a hard time picturing anybody else who could sing the lyrics of “tonight tonight” convincingly... maybe Neil diamond?

Prince maybe

I want to hear Julien Baker sing of crucifying the insincere, and she'd kill those long held notes.

Cracklin' Bullet (with butterfly wings)

Phil Collins could do "Tonight, Tonight" just to add to his Tonight collection

This might have been Neil Diamond-informed, actually: https://youtu.be/7iosnvKSBIo

what kind of voice would slide better into these layers of sound?

I get exactly the style of vocal he's aiming for and it one that would fit very well with the music, and most of his instincts regarding vocal phrasing and dynamics are very good ones - but he just doesn't have the skill to pull it off, and always somehow sounds like he's simultaneously making too much and not enough effort.

It's an odd voice. It's like an angry late teen and a scared 8 year old in the same body.

agreed, it's so perfect

corroded Gordon Gano

e only sd-era b-side i'd want on the album is "whir," and god knows it doesn't fit and is perfect where it is on pisces iscariot

"Whir" really is a gem.

That makes sense about Flood btw, Brad.

tried to post this yesterday but got shut out by my "you're wasting too much time on fun stuff" browser plugin ---- i do agree there's a point after which billy's voice stops being an asset. for me it's noticeable on some of Adore and a huge problem on the less "lush" tracks of Machina. as some of you have already touched on (and which i think we got into in detail on one of the ballot poll threads?), it's a combination of a changed singing style, a different way of mixing his vocals, and the changing sound of the band overall. for whatever reason it doesn't bother me on the MCIS tracks where this greater prominence is already happening, but maybe it's also that i've sort of phased out listening to the most abrasive tracks on that album anyway.

Corgan’s vox are awesome on “Frail & Bedazzled”—his voice is given that flat, dry treatment and slid into the middle of the mix (also great when everything else drops out, leaving just his vocal).

Helps that it’s a kick-a$$ song!

you could maybe cut idk one song from SD, if you had to, but more than that and it'd be diminished in grandeur no matter what the songs were.

This gets at the core at what makes this album so mercurial and distinctive, while at the same time imho only decent & not-great: it's an album with, like, eight beating hearts

The Core, The Eight-Beating Hearts Music...

been thinking about this and can’t help but believing J. Mascis would crush the vox dept

I'm a bit of a Butch Vig sceptic but I'm listening to Mayonaise on a different setup (ftr: laptop/my boys' flash new speaker) and goddamn I can really hear just how fucking awesome Jimmy Chamberlin's drums sound.

"Sliverfuck" 100% rules

Yup. And the insane/insanely longer live versions even more so.

I love how “Mogwai Fear Satan” is kinda like a drawn out “Silverfuck” jam. Better guitar/drum sounds on SD, tho.

File under 'things I did not expect'

https://fruit-bats.bandcamp.com/album/siamese-dream

Every so often, like now, I get into a mode where nothing else really sounds good to me except Siamese Dream, and I listen to it over & over. I can't really account for it -- I'm not much of a Pumpkins fan otherwise these days; I was lukewarm on this album for decades; I don't particularly vibe with the lyrics, or even many of the musical stylings; and I'm not generally into big rock albums that were Painstakingly Produced for Perfection and recorded over months (instead of weeks)... yet somehow it doesn't feel like that. It's like the band & Vig pulled off an impossible balance, making the album "just right" without it sounding too deliberate or overpolished... an impressively shiny & fearsome artifact that retains a human touch, real immediacy (and awesome drumming).

Somehow it's still "revealing itself" to me after all this time; or maybe it's just now clicking w/me because I've dropped aesthetic baggage of my own that was keeping me from appreciating it? (I dunno). Either way, it's quite a thing.

It's funny--I *was* a super-fan up through (but cracks showing at) 'MCIS'. And yet I feel similarly about 'Siamese Dream' (and the b-sides collected on 'Pisces Iscariot' + "Drown"). It has no relationship to any music I like from before or sfter it, and is conceptually a type of album I'd disdain. But for all of the "fan" baggage that fell away hard a quarter century ago, it still sinks its hooks in me if I happen to hear it.

It somehow manages to be the album equivalent of some big CGI-laden self-serious action extravaganza starring some in-real-life repelant schmuck that nevertheless actually is thrilling and engrossing. It's totally uncool, and almost cool for it (accidentally).

I think I agree with all this. I'm not really a Pumpkins fan either and basically own two albums (including MCIS) and a homemade "best of" CD-R covering 1991-2000. MCIS doesn't come close to sustaining it's enormous run time and I rapidly lose interest in the CD-R when it gets through the back half. Siamese Dream is really the only one I can enjoy all the way through.

Siamese Dream is really the only one I can enjoy all the way through.

For me it's Gish, but though consistent, it doesn't have any of their really great songs.
If brevity was all that was needed to make a great Pumpkins record, Shiny and Oh So Bright, Vol. 1 / LP: No Past. No Future. No Sun would be their masterpiece, but it's the worst.

This bump seems like a good excuse to play one of my favorites from this decade again.

The one I can enjoy all the way through is Adore - I've not entirely been able to work out why that is. It goes on an age (mind you so do the two around it) and has a lot of slow stuff which I don't quite think is them (or Billy at least) playing to their strengths but unlike their other 91-00 albums I'm generally unlikely to want to skip anything.

I don't think it's odd that Adore is well regarded by many Pumpkins fans. It's my favourite too, it has a serene vibe that they never had reached before or since.

I wouldn't identify as a Pumpkins fan, though. An Adore fan and a fan of certain songs from (or whole parts of) other albums, though.

A chin-stroking observation (after going back & forth a few times btw. the orig CD and the remaster): "Geek USA" is an even more interesting/complex song than "Silverfuck" - even though I think conventional wisdom would hold the opposite(?)

Silverfuck has always been my least favourite SD-track. Too long, and just not a good as most of the other rockers on the album. Shares some weaknesses with Fuck You from MC.

Only makes sense as a live “indulgence song” really

They played it when I saw them in Oct. ‘91(?), before I had even heard Gish… I didn’t know the song, of course, but I remember Billy singing “I feel no pain…” over the bassline.

One thing I’ll add is that when SD first came out, those are the two songs I least enjoyed… “Geek” sounded too tryhard-aggro and hookless to me, and “Silver” too much like, idk, Jane’s Addiction or something.

So I think learning to like/appreciate those songs was key, in terms of the whole album clicking with me… no more “second half, time to skip” syndrome.

happy 30th (and two days)

In a dream, we are connected

Pretty cool acoustic set. From the comments, sounds like Pumpkin Heads have long been familiar with this set as a boot, but I never heard it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzwOwzGtiZw

yeah that rules! it’s amazing how well those droney songs translate to the acoustic setting really. In the late 90s I got that set as part of a cd-r trade on alt.music.smashingpumpkins lol