Tadeusz says astute, but I've never thought FZ was over-and-above astute — just, y'know, run-of-the-mill astute. Never heard an FZ commentary that I hadn't already heard elsewhere (not nec. heard elsewhere in pop /rock, but in Letterman or Alex Cockburn, or just somewhere... ): I think the prob. is he NEVER turned his laser-eye on himself and the wackness of his dreams/fears. "Astute" somewhat excepted, all the good words TS uses are true — but (to me) so what. FZ is just too guarded, so that's how he makes me.
― mark s, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Anyway, my own thoughts: I tend to like Zappa's earlier stuff most (just about everything he did with the Mothers of Invention), plus a great deal of his late seventies/early eighties post-Mothers stuff. Faves would have to be Apostrophe (as someone upthread said, so gleeful), Freak Out!, Hot Rats, Joe's Garage, and Läther (because it's so over-the-top, has all of the best bits from Sheikh Yerbouti and Orchestral Favorites, and that cow on the cover with the Zappa goatee-and-beard). Guilty favorites would be Sheikh Yerbouti (great pop songs and awesome guitarwork mixed with pure wank and pointlessly stupid lyrics) and Thing Fish (mainly because it brings together everything that was good and was bad about Zappa). Largely agree that he tapered off towards the end, when he was releasing albums largely because he could (and because he'd gotten that damn Synclavier doing music by himself, without anyone or anything to keep him or his sketchier ideas in check).
As for the astuteness -- I guess some of that's from my having read a lot of his interviews as well as his autobiography. His lyrics are a grab-bag of the funny, the astute, the obscene and the flat-out stupid ... even he admitted that a lot of his lyrics and plots (esp. Joe's Garage) were stupid.
― Tadeusz Suchodolski, Monday, 21 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
'Hot Rats' is good though, and is it 'Suzy Cream Cheese' (?). Actually, Zap ain't so bad. I mean the guy did twiddle the knobs on 'Troutmask' right? It's just he's so fucking odd; but for the sake of being odd, you know. Whereas with Loonheart, you know that he is genuinely fucking out there, Zappa is always trying so damn hard.
With this is mind: Dud.
― Roger Fascist, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― JUlio Desouza, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― DeRayMi, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Jeff W, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― dog latin, Sunday, 4 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
So... Nobody here has a sense of humor unless they're STONED??
All of you hate fun and sweet sweet guitar solos. REVIVE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssjVez9UA4w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew3Dq82Q1bQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCG4Caw7IIc
― Andi Mags, Monday, 28 May 2007 04:34 (seventeen years ago) link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_i_HVBD9ks
Alternate '73 version of Montana with better video quality but lower sound. KILLER solo.
― Andi Mags, Monday, 28 May 2007 04:50 (seventeen years ago) link
ahhhhh thanks
― cutty, Monday, 28 May 2007 04:50 (seventeen years ago) link
whoa i just clicked on that "last zappa interview" video--really sad
― cutty, Monday, 28 May 2007 04:53 (seventeen years ago) link
fuckin ian underwood!
― cutty, Monday, 28 May 2007 04:57 (seventeen years ago) link
I haven't brought myself to watch that yet, but there are 5 sections of the Zappa bio from BBC on there too, which I highly recommend.
― Andi Mags, Monday, 28 May 2007 05:11 (seventeen years ago) link
That video of "You are what you is" made the 8 year old me extremely nauseous when it originally aired.
― Sparkle Motion, Monday, 28 May 2007 16:08 (seventeen years ago) link
I just read about this morning--no recollection of it playing any festivals here, and I can't find a listing on IMDB.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7figLnhYZ44
― clemenza, Sunday, 4 March 2012 13:48 (twelve years ago) link
”both” is the answer to the this thread
― the wild eyed boy from soundcloud (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 4 March 2012 18:41 (twelve years ago) link
haha, otm
― Steamtable Willie (WmC), Sunday, 4 March 2012 19:49 (twelve years ago) link
So much material that there are extremes of both.
― c'est ne pas un car wash (snoball), Sunday, 4 March 2012 20:59 (twelve years ago) link
Full catalogue to be reissued by Universal this year, apparently including some new mastering jobs. (By Joe Travers? No details given.)
My first question is whether Gail and the ZFT retains the right to keep on mining the extensive vaults and putting stuff out themselves.
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:30 (twelve years ago) link
hmmm, i seem to recall that the mixes of a lot of those 90s reissues had been futzed w/ by Zappa? wonder if these are the "original" mixes or whatever.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:43 (twelve years ago) link
RIP Rykodisc.
― Electro-Shock Rory (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:47 (twelve years ago) link
I hope they're the "unfutzed" versions.
― EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:50 (twelve years ago) link
I dunno - the original version of "We're Only In It For the Money" is pretty horrible, really
― frogbs, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:53 (twelve years ago) link
sonically, I mean
― frogbs, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:54 (twelve years ago) link
Would like somebody to explain me the difference between remixing and remastering in the context of this news. When FZ did the CD releases of Ruben and the Jets and WOIIFTM with new bass & drum tracks, it's safe to say he did new mixes. There are fairly radical differences in LP and CD mixes of Hot Rats. But I imagine that most of the CD catalogue consisted of digital transfer of the original vinyl masters, right, without much fiddling around?
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:06 (twelve years ago) link
You have it right, Remastering is tracking down the best possible format of the final mixes of an album (in Zappa's case probably 1/2 or 1/4 inch analog tape reels and adding equalisation and/or compression & limiting to get the best overall sound and dynamics onto whichever format the recording is going to end up on. Of course the potential abuse of the process is a big issue in the digital age.
Remixing is loading the original unmixed master tapes onto whatever the relevant playback machine would be and repeating the process of mixing the album from scratch.
― MaresNest, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:15 (twelve years ago) link
The regular cds of Freak Out have a bunch of digital echo Frank added in the 80s. The reissue entitled MOFO has the og mix.
― Electro-Shock Rory (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:18 (twelve years ago) link
I remember reading that he apparently dicked about with recordings other than Hot Rats and WOIIFTM too, that's where the UMRK Approved master tag came in.
― MaresNest, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:19 (twelve years ago) link
the version on cd with added slap bass is a whole new level of awful though
― zappi, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:38 (twelve years ago) link
"futzed" is putting it mildly.
ReissuesIn 1984, Zappa prepared a remix of Cruising with Ruben & the Jets for its compact disc reissue and the vinyl box set The Old Masters I. The remix featured new rhythm tracks recorded by bassist Arthur Barrow and drummer Chad Wackerman, much as the 1984 remix of We're Only in It for the Money had featured. Zappa stated "The master tapes for Ruben and the Jets were in better shape, but since I liked the results on We're Only in it For the Money, I decided to do it on Ruben too. But those are the only two albums on which the original performances were replaced. I thought the important thing was the material itself."[2]After the remixing was announced, a $13 million lawsuit was filed against Zappa by Jimmy Carl Black, Bunk Gardner and Don Preston, who were later joined by Ray Collins, Art Tripp and Motorhead Sherwood, increasing the claim to $16.4 million, stating that they had received no royalties from Zappa since 1969.[2]In 2009, the original mix of the album was released as part of a compilation entitled Greasy Love Songs.[6]
In 1984, Zappa prepared a remix of Cruising with Ruben & the Jets for its compact disc reissue and the vinyl box set The Old Masters I. The remix featured new rhythm tracks recorded by bassist Arthur Barrow and drummer Chad Wackerman, much as the 1984 remix of We're Only in It for the Money had featured. Zappa stated "The master tapes for Ruben and the Jets were in better shape, but since I liked the results on We're Only in it For the Money, I decided to do it on Ruben too. But those are the only two albums on which the original performances were replaced. I thought the important thing was the material itself."[2]
After the remixing was announced, a $13 million lawsuit was filed against Zappa by Jimmy Carl Black, Bunk Gardner and Don Preston, who were later joined by Ray Collins, Art Tripp and Motorhead Sherwood, increasing the claim to $16.4 million, stating that they had received no royalties from Zappa since 1969.[2]
In 2009, the original mix of the album was released as part of a compilation entitled Greasy Love Songs.[6]
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:40 (twelve years ago) link
zappa was so nuts about that sort of thing, it seems. i remember reading something about the creation of "shut and play your guitar" (i think) where he would put guitar solos from, say, 1974 into a recording from 1981.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:43 (twelve years ago) link
He would lift guitar tracks from live recordings and drop them into studio based stuff, he did a whole track by layering elements from different recordings, Tink Runs Amok? He called it Xenochrony iirc.
― MaresNest, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:51 (twelve years ago) link
XENOCHRONY! Exciting. Bands that never were.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:53 (twelve years ago) link
"Rubber Shirt," from Sheik Yerbouti:
SPECIAL NOTE: The bass part is extracted froma four track master of a performance from Goteborg,Sweden 1974 which I had Patrick O"Hearn overdub ona medium tempo guitar solo track in 4/4. The notedchosen were more or less specified during the overdubsession, and so it was not completely an improvised"bass solo." A year and a half later, the bass track waspeeled off the Swedish master and transferred to onetrack of another studio 24 track master for a slow songin 11/4. The result of this experimental re-synchronization(the same technique was used on the Zoot Alluresalbum in "Friendly Little Finger") is the piece you arelistening to. All of the sensitive, interesting interplaybetween the bass and drums never actually happened ...also note, the guitar solo section of the song "Yo' Mama"on side four was done the same way.
One of my favorite Sheik Yerbouti tracks.
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:59 (twelve years ago) link
I was just to talking to a big Zappaphile firend of mine, and he mentioned that some of the other "futzing" was undoing vintage edit jobs done to fit lp time constraints. He cited these two (and was only partially wrong):
Wiki on Hot Rats:
In 1987 Zappa remixed Hot Rats for re-issue on Compact Disc. "Willie the Pimp" is edited differently during the introduction and guitar solo. "The Gumbo Variations" has 4 minutes of additional material including an introduction and guitar and saxophone solo sections which were cut from the vinyl LP version. Piano and flute which were buried the LP mix of "Little Umbrellas" are prominent on the CD. Other differences include significant changes to the overall ambiance and dynamic range. The original mix was reissued in 2009 as a limited edition audiophile LP by Classic Records.
Wiki on Weasels...:
The CD version of the album features different versions of "Didja Get Any Onya?" and "Prelude to the Afternoon of a Sexually Aroused Gas Mask", which featured music edited out of the LP versions. Some of this extra music was used (in a different studio recording) as the backing track for "The Blimp" on the Captain Beefheart album Trout Mask Replica, produced by Frank Zappa.
― Electro-Shock Rory (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 01:16 (twelve years ago) link
― zappi
I was trying to youtube some songs off it a few years back, and the only versions that came up were from this, which I hadn't been aware of before, and I was seriously appalled. Especially since the original WOIIFTM is one of my all-time faves.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:04 (twelve years ago) link
What he did to "Ruben & the Jets" was criminal
― Tom D (Tom D.), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:12 (twelve years ago) link
But it was his music, I suppose he could do what he liked with it
― Tom D (Tom D.), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:13 (twelve years ago) link
I was happy when the Family Trust rectified the Reuben redux last year.
― EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:15 (twelve years ago) link
― Tom D (Tom D.)
the crimes of george lucas ('90s on)
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:20 (twelve years ago) link
They did? I must have missed this!
― Tom D (Tom D.), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:23 (twelve years ago) link
They released it as Greasy Love Songs.
http://www.zappa.com/fz/discography/2010greasylovesongs.html
― EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:27 (twelve years ago) link
The version of WOIIFTM that I first heard was the one with the new bass and drums, so for a long time I thought that was the original version. When I finally heard the real original I was quite shocked at the difference. I still hear the altered one as being the "right" one even though I know that's not right.
― Moodles, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:00 (twelve years ago) link
I used to think there were things to like about the 1984 mix, but...naaah. I don't think I've ever heard the original vinyl. I'd like to check it out sometime if there's a digital rip floating around somewhere, and compare it to the 1993 remix/remaster.
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:43 (twelve years ago) link
one thing I like about the 1984 version is that it restored some pieces from the original recording that had been censored out by the record company
― Moodles, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:49 (twelve years ago) link
I wish there was a version of the original mixed with those excised bits added back in
― Moodles, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:50 (twelve years ago) link
original mix
Isn't that just that "don't come in me in me" is backwards on the original, forwards on the remix? I can't recall other instances.
― Soccer mom, hopeless and lost, in utter despair (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 16:08 (twelve years ago) link
There's also a verse in Mother People with the line "Shut your fucking mouth about the length of my hair" that's also backwards on the original.
― Moodles, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 16:12 (twelve years ago) link
Ah, yeah. Listening to Absolutely Free at the moment. Man, "Duke Of Prunes" marries such a beautiful melody to some of the most bizarre lyrics...
― Soccer mom, hopeless and lost, in utter despair (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 16:18 (twelve years ago) link
Never planning to listen to this, I suspect the skeleton key to the meaning of the record is when you realize Thing-Fish is a pun on "Kingfish".
― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 1 April 2024 18:00 (two months ago) link
the gender (and racial) politics of robert crumb with none of the self loathing
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Monday, 1 April 2024 18:10 (two months ago) link
omg
― Make Me Smile (Come Around and See Me) (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 1 April 2024 18:12 (two months ago) link
the gender (and racial) politics of robert crumb with none of the self loathing― your original display name is still visible (Left)
― your original display name is still visible (Left)
imagine being frank zappa and not hating yourself
― Kate (rushomancy), Monday, 1 April 2024 19:55 (two months ago) link
I think he was riven by insecurity if not self-loathing.
― The Prime of the Ancient Minister (Tom D.), Monday, 1 April 2024 19:56 (two months ago) link
Ya think? Endlessly lashing out humorlessly at simplistic targets and acting like everyone else is stupid. Hmm.
― Make Me Smile (Come Around and See Me) (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 1 April 2024 21:13 (two months ago) link
Sorry, wrong thread.
https://media.tenor.com/1jI6hMtarW4AAAAM/marvel-is-it-though.gif
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 1 April 2024 21:20 (two months ago) link
Ha, not really, but it might have been.
― Make Me Smile (Come Around and See Me) (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 1 April 2024 21:23 (two months ago) link
a thing people in this thread are not grasping (understandably) is that zappa shows were really really fun and a "happening" and seeing those bands play that complex music live were really cool to see. i think that's where he got a lotttt of his fans and your moms friends who are hold hippies.
― kurt schwitterz, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 06:19 (two months ago) link
* like your mom's old hippie friends.
― kurt schwitterz, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 06:20 (two months ago) link
(i kno cuz my parents and their friends talk about going to see him a lot and how OUTRAGEOUS it was but own 0-just a few of his records)
― kurt schwitterz, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 08:07 (two months ago) link
I saw him on what turned out to be his final tour in 1988 and yeah, it was a good show. He had a twelve-piece band that included a five-piece horn section; the thing that stuck out the most at the time was their cover of "Stairway to Heaven," on which the horn section played the original guitar solo, as a lead-in to Zappa's solo.
― Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 14:57 (two months ago) link
I only had the Broadway the Hard Way CD but parts of that performance are amazing. could be his best ever live band.
― frogbs, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 14:59 (two months ago) link
I had never listened to it before just now. All the dated political references get a bit wearing, but at least they outnumber the misogynistic ones, I guess. Band is super tight, but I don’t think I’ll be relistening.
― Requiem for a Dream: The Musical! (Dan Peterson), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 18:12 (two months ago) link
Try Make A Jazz Noise Here. Same band but almost entirely instrumental.
― Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 18:14 (two months ago) link
That one I have heard. It’s good in places, I like him revisiting some oldies, but then there’s a lengthy track of endless sampled snork noises.
― Requiem for a Dream: The Musical! (Dan Peterson), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 18:19 (two months ago) link
I think every double disc album he released could be trimmed 50%, except Uncle Meat.
― Requiem for a Dream: The Musical! (Dan Peterson), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 18:21 (two months ago) link
What would I get out of this that I wouldn’t get out of listening to an actual jazz band. Or going to see some classical thing, the symphony, the opera etc.
― Make Me Smile (Come Around and See Me) (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 19:12 (two months ago) link
Probably already asked this one before, rhetorical question, don’t really want to know the answer that much, pvmic etc.
― Make Me Smile (Come Around and See Me) (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 19:13 (two months ago) link
Party atmosphere, rock and roll gymnastics, cultural commentary and audience participation.
― kurt schwitterz, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 19:26 (two months ago) link
Oh wow, thanks!
― Make Me Smile (Come Around and See Me) (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 19:37 (two months ago) link
I hate all that stuff, so I think I'll pass, thanks
Well, not quite, but mostly
No, I think you were right the first time.
― The Prime of the Ancient Minister (Tom D.), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 19:43 (two months ago) link
🥸
― Make Me Smile (Come Around and See Me) (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 19:57 (two months ago) link
yeah go listen to an actual jazz band tbh
zappa is dead _and_ he smells funny
― Kate (rushomancy), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 20:54 (two months ago) link
What would I get out of this that I wouldn’t get out of listening to an actual jazz band.
you'd get something you won't get from, say, a bop combo, but George Duke's solo records of the 70s deliver basically all the same thrills you can get from Zappa stuff with only a fraction of the DO NOT WANT factor. however it should also be remembered that late in his life he released this, that this album's title and cover were a choice he made.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a0/George_Duke-Dukey_Treats.jpg
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 21:59 (two months ago) link
Stockholm Syndrome!
― nickn, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 22:35 (two months ago) link
Lol!
― Make Me Smile (Come Around and See Me) (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 22:38 (two months ago) link
― Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Tuesday, April 2, 2024 2:14 PM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
IMO I think this is the best thing he released from the best tour he did. Incredibly jealous you saw them on that tour, unperson.
― ヽ(´ー`)┌ (CompuPost), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 22:38 (two months ago) link
As a hater, I guess I might say the same
― Make Me Smile (Come Around and See Me) (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 22:44 (two months ago) link
Virtuosi on recordings sometimes ill-used but live is a different story
― Make Me Smile (Come Around and See Me) (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 22:45 (two months ago) link
The other '88 tour albums (Bway the Hard Way and Best Band You've Never Heard) are filled w/ gorgeous stuff, too, but there's still a lot of Zappa schtick to wade through. Make a Jazz Noise has always struck me as his his most straight-faced (aside from all orchestral stuff) – minimal silly stuff, minimal caustic songs, just a really, really tight band doing a lot of Zappa's best live material.
― ヽ(´ー`)┌ (CompuPost), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 23:00 (two months ago) link
There's a 5LP or 3CD box set of the Mothers live at the Whisky in 1968 coming out in June, but what's interesting about that is this, from the press release:
All vinyl was cut from hi-res digital file by Chris Bellman at Bernie Grundman Mastering in 2023 and is being pressed at Optimal: Media in Germany on BioVinyl, a new environment-friendly formulation and sustainable product made from bio-based PVC (polyvinyl chloride). The petroleum previously required for PVC production is replaced by recycling used cooking oil or industrial waste gases. Through the use of renewable energies and recycled raw materials, CO2 emissions are significantly reduced. More information about BioVinyl available here: https://www.optimal-media.com/en/news/biovinyl/
This is the first I've heard of this process. Anybody know more?
― Instead of create and send out, it pull back and consume (unperson), Friday, 19 April 2024 18:41 (one month ago) link
Huh. Interesting indeed!
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 19 April 2024 19:19 (one month ago) link