San Francisco and what to do in it

working the graveyard shift in the TL only to get stabbed by a random crazy who just got released from jail.

Anyone else see the snowflakes falling in the financial district a few minutes ago?

heard it described as "light hail" - didn't see any myself. I'm on the 20th floor at Mission/Main

definitely saw some snowflakes. it was unmistakeable. i'm near 1st/market.

its 46 degrees in the shade in downtown right now so kinda hard to believe that it's snow.

was on the phone with a friend yesterday and she reported hail in Cow Hollow

nothing but light rain in the Mission

so it was just me and all the people in my office and the building across from us who saw it? cool, i'm so lucky.

There is snow all over the East Bay.

I saw a little snow donwtown.

i'm in SOMA and i saw hail. there was no confusing it with snow, as it bounced.

Was in North Beach/Financial district and felt a few flakes of snow/slushy rain. It did hail big blobs of hail earlier too.

when my husband dropped me at the train today, the car in front of us had snow all over its bumper and window wipers.

guess it's time to move huh guys

I didn't see any snow, and it didn't really feel that cold to me.

does anyone have any tips for santa cruz? places to eat/drink?

Sadly, Santa Cruz doesn't have any great restaurants. The Buttery Bakery has delicious pastries, sandwiches, and lunchy food (disclaimer - I worked there while I was in high school).

thanks, will cycle up there for breakfast tomorrow. so far i have had an ok shrimp taco and been to the coffee roasting place.

book an hour at Well Within if you need some r&r. pretty epic place iyam.

I'm heading down there today, coincidentally... Hope you liked it!

the buttery was pretty great! i cycled out to the marine research center afterwards. i have to work for the rest of my stay now so no spa for me : ( but if tips for dinner tonight occur to anyone then let me know.

If you're looking for dinner on the upscale (not super-pricey tho) side, I recommend Oswald, on Soquel and Pacific. It's a fairly new but superb place run by awesome people.

Now I wish I stayed down there for dinner!

the last time i was anywhere near santa cruz, i fell down this cliff and nearly died. ah, lovely times.

anyone recommend a travel agent/tour operator for a tour around san fran (and yosemite and anywhere else we should go while we're there)?

and vineyard recommendations would also be good.

What are you looking for tour wise? Like a bus thing? Or walking tours?

If you are spending the night in Napa Valley just see if your hotel has some sort deal worked out with the local wineries. We paid a bit more for the place we stayed in Yountville, but the fact that we didn't have to pay for tastings basically equalled out. The best wine we tried was actually in Yountville at Hope & Grace which has a little storefront just down from Bouchon.

Driving.

10-14 days.

Travelling from the UK.

Gotchya. Well you definitely don't need the car while in San Francisco as 99% of anything you want to do will either be walkable or one bus away. Do you have accommodations or an idea of where you want to stay?

i might argue for the car if you anticipate wanting to take a daytrip to the redwoods or point reyes, which would be chill, i think.

maybe you could just use zipcar for that though, cause parking can be a huge annoyance

Yeah I just meant for the days you are actually in SF, it's not necessary. Obv very needed if going to Napa/Sonoma/Yosemite/etc.

+1 for no car while in SF proper. Overnight parking at most SF hotels starts around $50/night fwiw. A budget rental car = $40/day.

My parents recently visited and went on one of those open top bus tours around the city (as they didn't hire a car). It's a good way of getting a quick look at the sights in a very short time - and if you want to stay longer somewhere you can and get back on another time - but the "commentary" can vary. One guy was great and had all the facts, explained about the effects of the earthquake, all that. The next woman was like "oh there's a great restaurant, oh there's another one, you should all try it if you like great food!!!1!"

If you're fairly organised and want to take your time you can read up on where you want to visit and use the buses to get around. It's $2 for a ticket that lasts a minimum 90 mins (can last all day if you're lucky) so pretty cheap. Google maps is good for looking for the best public transit routes around town.

ugh.
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/6073/mikegiantmodernsf.jpg

that shit makes me want to move to Flint

yeah, sorry, wasn't clear in my email. hiring a car was for when we go to napa, yosemite etc.

Something tells me the person who drew that is very jealous.

is that cartoon supposed to be a joke/stinging indictment cuz I don't get it

Yeah, it's like a very OCD pastiche wish-list

The joke is that the person who drew it is clearly just as much a scenester as the person being drawn. Hilarious.

it's like a twilight zone episode

like "real boobs"? "goes to yoga"? "doesn't own a car"? These are bad things?

maybe it is an affectionate parody guys

jeezus

"shapely, powerful calves", "powerful thighs", "no panties", "fucks on the first date" = yeah more like OCD sexxxx fantasy amirite

"maybe it is an affectionate parody guys"

Affectionate fantasy.

affectionate OCD sexxxx fantasy of a Critical Masshole imho

hi all, i'm spending a week around the bay area in early march. mostly got it planned out--two days in yosemite, two in napa including bike tour, a day in bodega bay, a day at point reyes, then drive down CA 1 and spend two days visiting SF (actually staying in berkeley).

i could use help with bodega bay--def want to see the coast and redwoods, but what else to do, where to eat? and point reyes--any particular trails or spots recommended?

i plan on visiting the mission for most of a day--got any good cheap food recs? any other neighborhood highlights? just looking for cool ideas, local favorites, no particular agenda.

thanks!

I will defer to other, but they steered me good on mission food recs. I ate many many tacos in SF. There was a great thrift store with an extensive record section, although someone would have to fill in the name and address for me, worth a visit in my book.

Some Mission recs:

Breakfast donut/coffee @ Four Barrell
Bi-Rite creamery for ice cream snack on a warm day
Lunch @ Limon Rotisserie or Schmidt's, both pretty decent bargains, or a burrito/tacos at any of about half-dozen taquerias (I, like the girl pictured above, prefer the slightly pricier Pancho Villa but virtually any place will have it fans--Cancun, La Taqueria, El Farolito)

I recommend leaving the Mission for dinner though and maybe heading to Uva Enoteca which has great happy hour deals

I don't like 4 Barrel's coffee for some reason. Something about the flavor is off-putting.

I think they make a great Americano. The brewed/press coffee I've never actually had, strangely enough.

Yeah, I've never tried their espresso.

Go to Casino Bar & Grill when you're in Bodega Bay for local color and, if it's on the weekend (and you like that kind of thing - I don't really) bbq oysters.

Point Reyes - try Hog island Oysters on the Tomales Bay and check out Pt. Reyes Station - esp., Cowgirl Creamery, a local artisinal cheesemaker.

There was a great thrift store with an extensive record section, although someone would have to fill in the name and address for me, worth a visit in my book

THE OTHER SHOP 327 Divisadero St.

(^^^Currently houses a fair portion of Open Mind Records' (RIP) stock)

many xposts:

do you like oysters? the area between bodega and point reyes is dotted with a few oyster farms where you can buy a bag straight out of the water and shuck them right there. i recommend Tomales Bay Oyster Company. point reyes lighthouse is really beautiful, not far from point reyes station. there are a lot of farms and dairies around here so the produce is usually pretty great: check out Cowgirl Creamery in Pt. Reyes Station. Marin Sun Farms (my butcher) is right there too.

on the way back into SF you can drive to the top of Mt. Tamalpais and also check out John Muir Woods which connect Hwy 1 to Hwy 101 in Marin County. The Marin Headlands are also really beautiful and offer the best views of SF imo.

on the way back into SF you can drive to the top of Mt. Tamalpais and also check out John Muir Woods which connect Hwy 1 to Hwy 101 in Marin County. The Marin Headlands are also really beautiful and offer the best views of SF imo.

^^^Seconded

Yeah. I'm a little jaded from having grown up in Marin (and my father working in the Headlands and Muir Woods) but it IS a magnificent drive. Stop off in Bolinas, too; they love visitors. ;)

Muir Woods is amazing.

dude who drew that sf bike chick is a famous grafitti/tattoo artist

i thought so from the disproportionate amount of attention given to tattooist shoutouts

the area between bodega and point reyes is dotted with a few oyster farms where you can buy a bag straight out of the water and shuck them right there. i recommend Tomales Bay Oyster Company

i did this on my recent trip. they were great. we went to abbot's lagoon which was a nice spot, but everywhere i've been to in pt reyes is beautiful. also recommended is a stop for a beer at vladimir's in inverness.

hmm which one, jaxon? i only go to Temple ( alas i am east bay scum).

it's weird, i totally get the derision in that drawing above, but it also seems to describe a very particular scene— ie, outside the fucking Lexington. *shivers*.

that said, a lot of it is also true of me: vegan gloves, tattoo by famous tattoo artist, LSD in hs, list could go on....

THE MODERN SAN FRANCISCAN POLL

oh also, i've disagreed with alex in sf about this before, but i heartily rec Cancun or El Farolito burritos, especially if yr not a vegetarian...for the veggies, Pancho Villa OR La Corneta, which imo uses the freshest veggies in the mission, and also gives you an inordinate amount of food for the price.

im a cancun-metate man myself

the only thing I ever get at El Metate is the salsa verde pork tamale plate. it's not that I don't like their other stuff... i just have to have those things every time I go there.

For me, Cancun easily has the best vegetarian burrito, although not very healthy.

dude who drew that sf bike chick is a famous grafitti/tattoo artist

lolz figured something along these lines given the list of tattoo artists in the drawing

also if we're having the Mexican food argument (again): EL TONAYENSE 4EVR BITCHEZ

"For me, Cancun easily has the best vegetarian burrito, although not very healthy."

Why is it more unhealthy than any other vegetarian burrito?

El Tonayense is great. Also the El Compadres taco truck is pretty much just as good.

Amusingly both look a lot cleaner than most of the sit down burrito/taco joints mentioned above.

El Tonayense is pretty dope, i must admit, but when i am drunk it is rarely open.

Why is it more unhealthy than any other vegetarian burrito?

It's like 95% cheese, avocado, and sour cream.

The El Compadres taco truck is awesome.

but damn, there's also NOTHING WORSE than the E. 14th taco truck in Oakland. satisfying while eating, hell the next day, every time.

vallarta > tonayense IMO

"It's like 95% cheese, avocado, and sour cream."

LOL isn't that like every super veggie burrito though.

I need to check out the much-lauded Tonayense someday.

graffiti /tattoo artist is m1ke g1ant

He must not be very good since she doesn't have a tattoo by him.

wow thanks all. i look forward to eating much oysters. and tacos. and cheese--we have a cowgirl creamery here (dc), didn't realize it's a bay area thing.

anyone have winery suggestions in napa or calistoga? i'm looking at two places to get a bike: http://www.napavalleybiketours.com or http://calistogabikeshop.com
the question is, rent bike at $35/day vs. pay for self-guided tour at ~$85? the tour gets you staff help in designing a route and that's about it, from what i can see. (i don't anticipate needing wine pick-up or other assistance.)

looks like the area is lousy with wineries. is riding around on our own and stopping when see one we feel like trying a good plan?

Surprised by the repping for El Tonayense. I tried going there a few times but just simply never liked it. In fact it's the only Taqeueria that I actively *don't like*. Is everyone talking about the restaurant (where I've been)? Cuz I've heard that the El Tonayense trucks are supposed to be better or something.
Vallarta all the time for me.

guy who works at Tonayense has a great jacket though... say "ENJOY YOUR TACO!" on the back

El Tonayense restaurant at 24th and Shotwell is basically the same as the trucks yes

only diff is they have a slightly bigger menu afaict

anyone else have any thoughts on the new rosamunde in the mission? my gf and i were there last night, talking about our favorite neighborhood places. it stays open till 11 every night, has good sausage, and a good beer selection for sorta cheapish.

if you don't like Tonyanense (sp?), it could be a regional thing. a surprising number of the tacquerias in the mission are not mexican but more CenAm (salv/guat/nicar/hond). tonyanense iirc (they catered a friend's event and i talked to owner) is pretty niche regional mexican flavors.

WILL sorry, not sure about bike rentals in the north bay. there is no shortage of wineries and i think that you should be fine with either a guided tour or on your own.

w/r/t: rosamunde, they only make 2 of their sausages on the premises: merguez and neurenberger (sp?). stick to those imo.

http://thegurglingcod.typepad.com/thegurglingcod/images/2008/02/12/the_more_you_know2.jpg

where is this new rosamunde in the mission...?

west side of mission, between 24th and 25th -- next to taqueria san jose.

btw guys maybe sometime this month we should FAP there. or maybe BYOFAP at metate?

metate's right down the street from my house

Sounds good! I love Rosamunde. You know, they will sell you uncooked sausages if you want them...

Not the merguez, though. :(

Interesting about Tonayense (I have no idea if I'm spelling it correctly either).
The thing that disagreed with me about it was some sort of sweet-ish flavor in the burritos. First time I thought it was interesting but couldn't decide if I liked it or not, second and third time confirmed that it wasn't for me.

I know I'm mostly a glorified lurker around here, but as a side note: I only have a month left in SF before trying my luck in NYC! No more burritos for awhile then, I think.
(and as an extra self-promotional aside, I'm DJing for my last time in the city this Wednesday at Madrone Lounge)

Thing about Shakey is that he gets veggie burritos, so...

Tonayense has grilled chicken - I get those (as well as the occasional veggie)

its the boiled-style chicken at other taquerias that I don't like

hardcore sausage eating buddy says the Mission Rosamunde not as good as the Haight St one for some reason

which burrito did you get, chinavision? I tend to get the regular Al Pastor, and it's definitely good (though I prefer the Church/Market El Castillito's Al Pastor to pretty much any burrito anywhere). from what I've heard their tacos are what sets them apart, but I have yet to try them because of my distaste for eating messy tacos off a paper plate in the front seat of a car.

I can't actually remember now, it's been quite awhile. These days I do tend to just get regular veggie burritos (and no more than one per week if possible). Trying to stay healthy.

anyone else have any thoughts on the new rosamunde in the mission? my gf and i were there last night, talking about our favorite neighborhood places. it stays open till 11 every night, has good sausage, and a good beer selection for sorta cheapish.
― 69, Monday, March 1, 2010 5:52 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i went last weekend. ended up waiting a fucking hour for my food. i bugged the kitchen twice about it. people who got there 20 minutes after me were done w/their food before i got mine. i asked why it was so complicated and she made up some shit about it being totally complicated especially because it was to go. i got it home and it was just a fucking sausage with ketchup and curry powder poured on top and sides of grilled onions and sweet peppers. it was fucking great though. and their fries are really really good.

hmm, Lower Haight Rosamunde doesn't have fries, do they? I wasn't aware of curry powder either. one of my chief complaints about the place is their lack of variety of toppings. for most sausages, I'd really just rather have chopped raw white onions.. those grilled ones they make get really soggy after a while.

How long are you waiting to eat your sausage that you have to worry about what happens "after a while"?

chinavision!, if you end up in brooklyn try Taco Santana near the Marcy JMZ, around the corner from Trophy Bar. it's my favorite tacqueria in NYC and way more authentic AND (!) cheaper (!!!!!) than anything in SF.

(xp) they sit in a tub before they are warmed up. depending on how busy the place is, they can be a little slimy. I actually stopped going there any time I saw this one particular dude working there, because the onions were always gross on his shift.

xxxp ohh i like the grilled onions -- they were zingy last night!

ya, i've never been the biggest fan of the haight st rosamunde. i'll eat there, but to me, it's just there. not a place i crave. the mission one has a nice interior, good beers (i know you can always go next door to toronado), and more sit down style food options. the one i got is called the Currywurst

There's a good chance I'll end up in Brooklyn, so thanks for the recommendation! I'm told there are good burritos to be found. I will confirm.

xp

Currywurst?! Really? The Berliner special?

I know most of the people at Haight Street Rosamunde so I always get well taken care of.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/green/detail?entry_id=58252

???

i would SFAP

http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2010/02/backward-circles-fight-for-no-right-to.html

So fancy a pint?

Shoot fire at penguins?

Still feel all plur?

xpost

There's definitely a part of me that thinks the tired old confrontational, self-entitled self-righteousness of bike culture is back-firing. I'm not particularly aggro about most things and I'm down with live-and-let-live but I've definitely seen provocateurs in Critical Mass (both downtown and from my home on Scott) and I fail to see why a bicicylist's desire for momentum should always trump, not only traffic ordinances but just common-sense and stability.

That said, why this makes it toward the top of the SFPD's agenda is a little beyond me. Is Gascon trying to save money or something?

Or is it just a wedge issue for increasing his authority?

don't care either way about Critical Mass myself - don't really support it since I take mass transit and riding a bike downtown seems insane (almost as insane as driving downtown), but not really against it either cuz it seems like a minor annoyance at worst.

It's all part of the entertainment. Uh.

Meantime -- will be back in town at the end of the month, the 25th to the 28th.

I think I might have mentioned this before, but I've def. been in situations where Critical Mass impeded on my ability to travel *on a bicycle* (the comment I got was something like "ooh this asshole's acting like he's got someplace important to go!" iirc). Killed my sympathy somewhat.

lol

there is kind of an obnoxious herd mentality about it

critical massholes won't even let you walk across the street

on another topic: very bummed to see that Mastrelli's in the ferry bldg has closed. :(

so wait what about this FAP/BYOB suggested upthread at Metate...? anybody down for this?

Critical Mass is just a meat market for hipsters since they don't go to the gym

xxp

shakey: consider me officially down

What's the fap suggestion/date?

el metate was suggested as the place, no date yet

I don't know El Matate. Where is it?

here

If you guys are willing to wait until the end of the month, I'd want in!

sure why not

Nice. I'd be interested.

that sounds great. im gonna hit the slumberland reunion show on the 27th, but maybe thursday the 25th? youll be fresh off the boat, ned. is that okay with you? btw metate is where annie and i ate with you last year...

Wed/Thursdays kinda bad for me tbh

i guess id prefer sunday to thursday -- ned?

oops i mean id prefer sunday to FRIDAY

weekends are good for me so ja

Sunday might work for me. What time are you thinking of?

I'm up for a P. Sunday 1-3 is naptime for the kids, but really almost any time will work...

can't wait for Shasta to pop up and demand a different time and meeting place and then not show up lolz

Weekends are no good, sorry!

Actually end of month not looking so good either, 90% chance I'll be out of town.

:(

hmm...Metate? Really? man, i haven't been there in a while, but i can't remember ever liking their food. but maybe that's just me.

What's the name of the taqueria at 24th and York?

so okay, metate is open till 10pm sunday, and is BYOB. i suggest the lil bodega across 22nd, where the proprietor is always jammin neil young, for getting beers. but like, BYOB means that youre free to bring your own, and get it wherever you want, right?? hang loose.

I don't really care where the exact meet-up is, anywhere in the mission is doable for me.

what Shakey said

yeah cosine i dont care

Whoa, sorry I missed all the discussion! Busy few days!

Sunday I leave for home in the late morning so that would be out...

bummer. i cant commit to friday quite yet, but i encourage y'all to schedule the FAP w ned in mind. ill swing by if i can, at least for a little while or one fish taco.

how about the Saturday that Ned's here...?

thats the night of the slumberland anniversary show, with the henry's dress reunion, so im a definite NO for that night.

My general schedule would probably be best availability on Thursday and Saturday nights but we'll see -- I figure my sis would be up for this as well but it would all depend on her plans.

chinavision!!!

i was walking home last night and i saw your flyer for your show this past wednesday night. :-(

sorry dude, i would have def shown up.

i was *this* close to going too, but i never leave the house on a school night.

but! he's gonna play a going away set at Radioactivity march 19th 6-9 at 222 hyde w/me and tristes tropiques.

Ned, call me. We'll figure something out, regardless.

yeah no sweat! it was pretty fun though... I did my thing that I tend to do now with a little front 242/808 state idustrial/acid section. not really the theme of the night but people respond! and yeah radioactivity will be cool! good early evening pizza & beer time.

Words fail me

Sic semper tyrannis

"animal holocaust denier"

Chili pepper pies, eh? Man, the eco-rights people certainly learned their lesson from the Humboldt County Sherriff's Dept.

Ned, call me. We'll figure something out, regardless.

Will do!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPayTWlAQ0k

lolz @ complete lack of reaction from audience

Heya all -- so at this point looks like my open times are Thursday night and probably Saturday lunch/brunch/whatever. Friday and Saturday evenings are possibilities but we'll see.

Saturday lunch/brunch/whatever
I could probably come up from Santa Cruz for this. Should I be scouring this thread for the details, or are they still to be determined?

comin atcha in august

xpost To be determined I'd guess. Will be chatting with Mike later this week as he asked to see what's going on!

Also Thursday night now out so Saturday midday/afternoon might be the way to go here, but again, will know more about the other times later.

I'll be at... um... Butter tonight from about 8:30 on: http://www.smoothasbutter.com/

tomorrow early-mid afternoon could work!

dare I ask why yr setting foot in that place

comin atcha in august

Check the weather, you may need a coat.

Tater tots

xpost

Tomorrow afternoon would be perfect, it's totally free at this point. Paul, you still able to come up?

birthday-related (not mien)

hmm... TS deep-fried mac'n'cheese vs deep-fried PB'n'J

imma do my best to make it tomorrow ned! @nnie and i are moving a lot of stuff from old to new apartment before the slumberland show, so i may not be able to hang for long, but txt me willya

I can definitely come up tomorrow afternoon -- flexible about when/where.

Monk's Kettle, 1:00pm -- 16th between valencia and guerrero, a block and a half west of the 16th street BART

http://www.monkskettle.com/

And we'll see everyone there! Or something like that!

be there or be sb'd

i'm racing this weekend so i'm out, but MK sponsors us so you'll be supporting me involuntarily!

Oh is that your scheme. Well we'll do what we can. :-D

Unfortunately (well, sort-of) I'm in Buenos Aires. Sorry to miss this...

that was fun!

How did the move go?

looking for good no-nonsense no-bullshit quality coffee beans for my new homebrewing set-up. i'm guessing rainbow is my best option?

Is Rainbow really cheaper than Blue Bottle or Four Barrel? Seem to recall Rainbow selling Ritual (which is more expensive than both) last time I was there.

I will let you know when I get home tonight! Any other homebrewers care to chime in?

How did the move go?

― Il suffit de ne pas l'envier (Michael White), Monday, March 29, 2010 5:02 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark

oops, sorry michael! missed this.

we love the new place. we cleaned out the old one this past weekend, which took FOREVER, but it went well. i just set up my record shelving last night, and everything is coming along. our new neighbors rule, and people are always cookin with the doors open and hanging in the yard with beers. A+

i just buy four barrel and blue bottle beans, but i've heard TJs has good/cheap beans.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/09/dining/09sfdine.html

"Third-wave" coffee roasting is lmao.

and people are always cookin with the doors open and hanging in the yard with beers. A+

Nice!!

Mr. Tooker said Four Barrel, which has been open a year and a half, is wildly profitable: he estimated the cafe’s retail side generates revenues of $100,000 a month, with 45 percent of that profit.

Mr Tooker can take that shit and go fuck himself. That is way too much money.

what's insane is that four barrel is probably one of the more obscure shops out of that whole class of ritual, philz, blue bottle, sightglass, etc.

and the current ne plus ultra, the V60 glass cone from the Japanese company Hario.

really?? they're championing a paper drip??

"what's insane is that four barrel is probably one of the more obscure shops out of that whole class of ritual, philz, blue bottle, sightglass, etc."

It's also probably my favorite. It definitely has the best space.

pretty sure sightglass is the most obscure of those

I've never been to Sightglass so yeah it's more obscure to me.

This is making me wonder how profitable the blue bottle satellite at my place of employment is. I'm certain the answer is "very".

Well the mark-up on coffee is insane and these places are always packed so yeah I'm guessing "very" is probably accurate.

What Alex said. The mark-up on coffee makes wine look like a deal.

All the more reason to make sure that your favorite yuppie coffee peddler is fair trade. /hippy

MWhite, who is the dude on your block who is painting landscapes from both sides of the sidewalk? Kudos to him.

No idea!

brew your coffee at home! even an expensive bag of beans will seem reasonable then.

http://brainslip.blogspot.com/2010/04/come-on-even-tribecha-is-better.html

http://www.leastwastefulcities.com/study_Overall.html

dunno how the toxic sludge "compost" fits into this

That actually makes me feel kind of good. Unfortunately the mostly right MUNI criticism piece in the Weekly made me feel kind of bad. :(

I haven't read that yet. Should I bother?

jaxon,

El MiGueLores?

Of course, in my language, that area is called "I'm going down to the El Rio."

didn't finish the MUNI article tbh, not telling me things I don't already know. pro-labor as I am, that agency will never be fixed until a new contract stripping out all the bullshit is in place. and there is a LOT of bullshit, MUNI employees basically make more money the less they show up to work.

It's good. Maybe not novel, but its pretty comprehensive.

Shakey, what also bugs me about that is that, for example, my morning bus driver, always the same Muslim dude, is polite, friendly and ALWAYS there. It's not just us getting screwed but in a sense him, since he's a conscientious guy who doesn't take random days off 'just 'cause'. Pro-labor doesn't have to mean pro-insane-business-practices.

First time I used the Muni, I thought it looked pretty great on paper (you can get pretty much anywhere you want) but could not believe that most lines stop at EVERY block. That is some BS.

eh that doesn't really bother me. there are express/limited lines for all the more popular routes.

NTRVP, just to quibble, it's every other block on the local routes.

Ha well it seems like every block, and the routes I take definitely have periods where they stop at every block. That actually reminds me, do you call a 'block' any length of street between two adjacent streets? e.g. I would call between Dolores & Guerrero one block wherever, even though on 23rd there is a Quane, Fair Oaks and Ames between them?

I would call the Dolroes to Guerero stretch a block for the purposes of overall distance or orientation unless it was for parking and then I would be more specific about which 'block' it was. For my purposes, though, MUNI is usually almost as quick as a taxi (I have to find one) or my car (I have to find parking) unless it's a long haul.

now that we have a kid (who's not yet old enough to ride the bus) we drive the car a lot more - to parks, to the store, etc. I still take MUNI everywhere else tho, and I expect as she gets older, our use of the car will decline. cuz yeah parking is a bitch.

"eh that doesn't really bother me."

It should bother you! It's slows down the entire system and makes it that much expensive and inefficient! And it is compounded by the fact that the busiest lines don't have bus-only lanes (not to mention the silly and easily fare collection metods, etc)! The slowness of MUNI is one of the main reasons why more people don't ride.

"easily evaded"

I suppose... but you just know the shitstorm MUNI would get if they just said they were removing a bunch of stops to speed up transit times.

If I didn't have a garage and an old fully paid-off car, I wouldn't have a car, even with today's MUNI.

I know people do it, but I ain't takin a 2yo everywhere on the bus. travel time would increase massively and it would just be a nightmare imho

Sure but they should still do it. MORE people would ride and they'd make more money.

xp Yeah my parents did it.

I ride with toddlers and little kids all the time with rather mixed but not horrible results but the 'terrible twos' are not an age I would personally like to take on MUNI and often dislike when they're there. Otoh, those kids who have been taking MUNI before that age tend to be better behaved than those kids for whom it's the first trip or only an occasional experience. The previous scientifically proven sentences are based on my towering intellect and completely anecdotal experience on pretty regular routes.

I've never had a car and lived in cities all my adult life, the Muni is great (and cheap) compared to most and although slow I wouldn't get a car just on that basis. Mind you I haven't tried it in rush hour yet, and I imagine taking a kid + grocery shopping is stressful enough to fork out for a taxi. That's not to say they shouldn't improve all that stuff they mention in the article, esp bus lanes. The 24-Divisadero is *painful* - stop at traffic lights - move 10 meters - stop at bus stop - move 20m - stop at traffic lights - move 10 meters - get in hilarious Muni fight - argghhh

mmm Kung Fu Tacos. I approve

I have semi-regular appts in Laurel Village, and coming back when I get out of the bus on California or Post (depending on what westbound bus I get on Cal), I've started not even bothering w/the bus and just walking down Divis which is a pleasant enough walk and frankly more pleasant than that stretch of bus and about the same amount of time.

24 Divisadero is the worst bus (possibly in the universe) in terms of timeliness. I regularly walk from California/Divis to Castro/Noe without seeing a single bus on the horizon.

Plus, even if you do get a bus, it tends to be full. I do take it to Noe Valley, though. I just don't do the Divis corridor.

Surprised the MUNI has that bad a rap. Living in Dallas all my life, functional mass transit was like spotting my first unicorn.

It's a very mixed bag, but yeah I think most people acknowledge that even at its worst it's still pretty great despite too often being needlessly slow and unreliable.

milo, even w/ all the aggros, the crazies, the taggers, the delays, etc..., you're talking about a city that's 7x7 miles squared and highly conctrated toward the eastern side of the city; it might suck but your trip is unlikely to suck for very long.

hey i am going to be in this city on thursday! for a few days, then driving up the coast w/ friend. i haven't been to SF since 1994! o_O
i guess i will figure out what to do in it!

That's why I'm surprised - I thought MUNI did a good job the two weeks I was there last year. The only time I had to grab a cab was making it to a Giants game when my girlfriend was slow getting ready.

you're talking about a city that's 7x7 miles squared and highly conctrated toward the eastern side of the city; it might suck but your trip is unlikely to suck for very long.

otm - w/ the exception of really, really long trips, I just walk everywhere in sf. muni's sorta *allowed* to suck because of the 7x7 thing.

I find it highly functional and I use it all the time if I'm not just walking.

rrobyn, have fun. Are you fapping with any of the autochtones?

also, a lot of out of towners forget the topographical diversity of SF, it's hard to run subways into areas with extreme hills imo. which is why cable cars, LRVs and streetcars still make sense.

From where I live, I can do the haight, hayes valley, the mission and the castro on foot, easily get downtown via several MUNI options and get over to the marina via the 22. It's very rare for me to drive and it's an excellent city in which to walk and I like my 'hood a lot and mostly hang around here.

hard but not *impossible*

xp

i haven't made any FAP plans, as this is somewhat impromtu and i've been busy, but that would be fun :)

i look fwd to taking your public transit system regardless

Well, yeah, there are plenty of tunnels in MUNI's light rail system.

xpost

so, what does ilx think of central subway?

that's a part of town i'm rarely in (mostly caters to tourists) but is a notable area of fare-dodging (and muni fights!). so it may be good for city revenues, at least in the long run.

I take it home every day.

xpost

mwhite, meant this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Subway

Oh, duh. Right. As we increasingly ask vehicular traffic to give way downtown, I can't help but think that any underground Public transport relief can'' be but a good thing and since it would serve an important and dense corridor.

it's more the opportunity cost that's the issue, I think. I mean, if this is the first step for a line that one day gets to north beach, and from there sneaks up to the presidio, okay, that's something pretty useful. but for the time being...transit to chinatown?

I am pro-any public transportation, but if I had 2 billion to spend on sf transit...

If you've ever spent any time on any of the Stockton St buses...

I haven't! because anything in that area is a 5 minute walk imo

my pet project would prolly be light-rail up van ness or geary

yeah is there really that much traffic between 4th and King and Chinatown...? That seems like a random route to me... but maybe there are lots of people taking Caltrains that want to get to Chinatown.

getting Muni light rail out on the northwest end of town seems like the more pressing/no-brainer option

I wouldn't spend any money on single rail trains.

my pet project would prolly be light-rail up van ness or geary

Van Ness is also a Fed highway for better or for worse and I'm kind of with you on Geary

yeah is there really that much traffic between 4th and King and Chinatown...? That seems like a random route to me... but maybe there are lots of people taking Caltrains that want to get to Chinatown.

i think the underlying issue with the central subway is:

(1) better enforcing the 30-Stockton to Powell BART which has rampant fare-dodging, I think that one of the big reveals of the last SFMTA study was that route has the double distinction of the lowest yield of fares with one of the highest capacity riderships. Not sure if you've ever been on this bus but if you have, you know what i'm not talking about.

(2) 4th & King direct via Powell is better/frequent BART connector to the baseball stadium and with rumors that the Warriors are heading back to SF to a new arena adjacent to AT&T Park so this would help streamline traffic to the sporting events (and CalTrain) from downtown rather than the T/N trains which get a little wonky when they have to disengage from/to auto-pilot.

i have not read the wiki just all imho so if you disagree fuk u.

I was just about to post my reasons for hating the idea, but those are both pretty solid arguments for it.

Main reason I hate the idea is because it's such a short walk. I used to take the 30/45 to work near 4th and King every morning, and those buses are completely empty before/after Mission (depending on if it's in our outbound.

seems like a huge waste to stop at Chinatown. Would love to see it go up under Columbus and threw Marina to Presidio or something. Agree with iatee that the Richmond is also in serious need of some transit <3. a subway following Geary out to the coast would be great for those areas.

i have not read the wiki just all imho so if you disagree fuk u.

lol luv ya Shasta don't ever change

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Muni-F-line-extension-faces-setback-92155354.html

whoa... i mean, i'm no fan of that side of the city but holy shit, how the fuck will those old F-cars go up the Ft. Mason hill w/ no cables? wau @ all that.

Those PCC cars are pretty tough, they were running in Pittsburgh until at least the end of the 90s and theres some pretty big hills on the T.

The PCCs I'm not worried about, it's the orange Milanese ones that can barely make it up Market between Gough and Laguna. Although.... I have seen some of them climbing the Dolores Park J-Church route which is probably the same as the Ft. Mason hill so maybe I should just shut up now.

Okay ILX, DON'T FAIL ME NOW... awhile back my wife intimated that all she wants for mother's day is Korean BBQ. since I can't line up a babysitter for Sunday, this means I need to find somewhere decent that will deliver in the Mission. Anyone got any recommendations?

havent had korean in the city yet -- seoul house in downtown oakland is shabby but v good next time youre hungry in the east bay, though...

Is there even Korean in the Mission?

there's some shitty Korean in the Mission, my hope is there's somewhere farther afield that will deliver (or that I can pick up)

There's Playground in Japantown, but I doubt they deliver (maybe Waiters on Wheels or something would though). All the other Korean I know is in my neighborhood which seems too far to drive there and back for.

Delivering KBBQ is kinda hard because KBBQ is all about the diners interactively cooking their meats on the open charcoal flame... your best bet for true KBBQ to go would be something like the "Mountain of Meat" from Hahn's Hibachi (sic, no hibachi's used at Hahn's). However... I have a better idea, the KBBQ sandwich from Rhea's deli in the Mission is really great and they deliver... but definitely not to be confused with a place like Brothers in the Richmond or Juban in J-town.

yeah I know KBBQ is really all about the dining experience but my options are limited here...

kbbq isn't very hard to do yourself if you have any korean grocery stores near you

the KBBQ sandwich from Rhea's deli in the Mission is really great and they deliver.

? I thought this place was a liquor store

it was until a few months ago, now it is like 'OMG BEST SANDWICH' type place, and also still a liquor store. i think the sandwiches are just all right, though they are monstrously large for the price, and their fake chicken sandwich is miles above most places i've had similar sandwiches. the meat stuff is just eh...anyway, they don't have a menu online, but if you go in you can get a take-out thing...

weird

otoh don't think my wife would be impressed that I procured her mother's day dinner from a liquor store

their kimchi is really fucking good.

Uh you are getting Korean take out food. . . how impressed is she likely to be either way?

depends on where it's from/how quality it is, of course!

But the very def. of Korean bbq kind of precludes getting best quality take out fare as Steve points out.

yeah it's all a part of MISSION STREET FOOD 2010 FOLLOW US ON TWITTER FOR OUR FIG ON A PLATE CART FOR $9.99

hahah okay I might be able to sell her on that

their fake chicken sandwich is miles above most places i've had similar sandwiches

i have been curious about this tbh - thanks for the tip

ok so I don't have the time right now to scour this thread for info, but can anyone offer recommendations for hotels? want to stay someplace relaxing (maybe romantic?). a view might be nice.

2 restaurants I've really enjoyed dining at recently:

Mission Bay Cafe

Frances

I dined at Frances last night and it was even better than the first I went.

So did you have a reservation, or just stand in line (at Frances)?

We made a reservation on leaving last time and did again, this time.

She's really good (melissa perello?), I went to a private dinner she threw at Sebo after she'd left the 5th Floor and while Frances was under construction. The coolest thing about that dinner was that she came to our table after our meal and honestly asked for our opinion! But it was funny because my dining companion was with this hypercritical daughter of a chef who finds fault with nearly everything and Melissa took it all in stride. I just mentioned some small things regarding the presentation of the appetizer and a flaw with the dessert.

I had 2 meals @ 5th Floor when she was chef there and it was really amazing. I have yet to go to Frances but I heard it's much more casual and homey than the 5th Floor, so I'm eager to try it once they hype dies down. My SO has been twice and thought it was okay the first time and better the 2nd time.

Last night was perfect. They're really sweet in there, too. They're just slammed all the time. It's very nu-SF - good service but very laid back otherwise.

It's also easily walkable ro bikeable for us, Steve, which is nice. I had a drink at Starbelly prior (I've only eaten there once - for brunch) and the bartender was very cool, steering me to a glass that met my description and that was at the lower end, price wise, some Spanish white blend. I'll have to try and dine there at some point. The menu looks good and I liked brunch there last time. I love that the Castro is getting more and more decent restaurants. For quite a while I always felt like I was in gay-Disneyland and they could serve you anything and you'd just have to take it or scram.

@nnie and i have had frances twice, and we love it. our favorite restaurant in the city maybe? first time i had double duck; recently i had two lil starters (beet salad and bacon beignets), and the trout entree. stellar all around. we love the by-the-oz wine, too. what happens to the ounces in your carafe that you dont drink, by the way? you dont get charged for them.

oh yeah starbelly is next on our list for new places to try, but we've got repeat reservations scheduled at flour+water in june, and frances again in july.

If anybody goes there soon and doesn't get the chilled pea soup and they're not a pea hater, they're a fool.

starbelly bruch is pretty great.

the castro used to be one of those neighborhoods with no good restaurants (gay men don't eat, do they? jkjk) but there is a lot of hype right now: ikes, frances, starbelly, etc.

more like gay men don't take their boyfriends on dates to expensive restaurants amirite

not when the Pendulum is right down the street anyway

There have been good restaurants from time to time in the Castro. In the 80's, it felt to me like the neighborhood really circled their wagons around HIV/AIDS and LGTB rights and activism. By the mid-90's with all the anti-HIV cocktails and a sunnier outlook it became more of a tourist destination again and tourists take what they can and aren't around long enough for their voice to be heard if they're being exploited. Perhaps it's because there are more aging gay couples from a different generation or God knows what, but from Home to 2223 Market to Lime to Catch there was new wave of good or goodish (I've always liked 2223, the others less so) restaurants and the choice is getting better and driving up the competition. I live in the Lower Haight, so having Castro as a walking option in addition to Hayes, NOPA, Haight, Lower Haight, and the Mission (walking or busing) is great for me and it's dead easy to get to after work for me.

hey you folks! i will be in town with the boyfriend from the 22nd until the 27th, if anybody wants to meet me this is your chance. really excited to explore yr city btw, this thread is full of good hints

I, alas, will be away. Have a great time!

jesus christ

seems like the beginning of a law and order episode

Starbelly has the worst name. My wife, who works across the street, called there to ask where it came from (her co-workers had a bet it was from the Dr Seuss story) and apparently it was some marketing guy who was like "You know what would be an awesome name -- Starbelly! Star means happy and belly means your belly! So Starbelly = happy belly! Great idea, right? So fucking pay me now."

"the castro used to be one of those neighborhoods with no good restaurants"

I wouldn't say this, but def. it was trended towars homier comfort places rather than fine dining establishments.

Star means happy?

According to the person who answered the phone @ Starbelly, it does.

And the unnamed consultant whose idea the name was.

I haven't been to Starbelly mostly cuz I'm not a big fan of Beretta and I believe they are owned/run by the same folks, right?

beretta pizza sucks a little, but the drinx are good, and the hostess was really nice and brought me and @nnie some free bruschetta when we were freezing waiting outside forever

not that that answers the question of if they are the same owners

hey you folks! i will be in town with the boyfriend from the 22nd until the 27th, if anybody wants to meet me this is your chance. really excited to explore yr city btw, this thread is full of good hints

― elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Sunday, May 16, 2010 2:29 AM (2 days ago) Bookmark

yo not sure about how available imma be, but id love to drink a beer or eat a burrito w u dudes

http://www.amquix.info/humor/sneetches/sneetchlogo.gif

Right! I mean seriously why wouldn't you tell everyone that was where the idea came from??!! Fear of lawsuit??

We went to Frances early last night (5pm!), sat at the bar, and really enjoyed it. Our waiter was less-than-helpful, but who cares, because the food was perfect. The gnocchi with favas and morels was particularly great. I tried to get a 2-person reservation for my birthday in late June, and was told they only had 9:45. I guess we'll have another early dinner at the bar...

hey, i tried frances last night! it was kind of impromptu because my boyfriend and i were down in the castro visiting his friend (one of the sisters of perpetual indulgence iirc) but were lucky enough to be seated at the bar immediately. really great meal, asparagus with brown butter hollandaise made me spastically roll my eyes it was that good.

at the moment i am convalescing after having stuffed myself at brenda's soul food @ polk & eddy. we were recommended by a friend who knows the owner, and it happened to be a few blocks from our hotel. we had to wait a while to be seated but def worth it.

my daughter and i will arrive there tomorrow! we have an unexpected trip to the san jose area that arose suddenly (i.e., yesterday). i love california.

very sad my wife can't go, but otoh, now she can spend a few days with our talon-clawed four-week old kitten.

I like Brenda's a lot. I'm really bummed I don't work in that neighborhood anymore.

We thought about going to Frances on Saturday, but it didn't work out (ended up at Szechuan off Clement instead lol how quickly what you want to eat can change). Ended up making reservations for mid-July (eek.) Amusingly I'd eaten at the okay Hawaiian places that was in the same location six-billion years ago.

I am back in town but a little travel-lagged. If anyone wants to throw something together tonight (dry) or tomorrow (rain?)...

You want to go to Spectrum/Wooden Shjips with me and the wife, Steve?

i think im gonna miss you guys, elmo. tonight is my last graveyard shift on KUSF, so i gotta go to bed early tonight and will probably be a lil tired after show and work tomorrow, then takin my lady to the airport wed night. glad you hit frances and liked it, and hope i catch you next time!

Finally went to Foreign Cinema on Sat night. Do you ever eat food that's so good it makes you, like, wriggle your shoulders in your seat? Mine was like that! Plus, I love how it's open, light and airy - being cramped or unable to see makes me feel less like eating.

http://calibersf.com/2010/05/20/charles-w-cushman-kodachrome-photographer/

so many great pictures

elmo? sorry dude, im booked... hope you have/had a great trip.

's okay -- my dance card filled up wicked fast. i'm meeting up w/ table tonite @ aunt charlie's but wasn't able to get together with any other ilxors -- hope no hard feelings!

when come back bring pie k?

update: just had the fake chicken sandwich from rhea's. holy crap this is a good sandwich. thanks sfilxors!

hey i just wanted to put in a recommendation for the hotel i was at -- hotel carlton @ sutter & larkin ('tender nob' lol). great rates ($89-109/night) for a smallish king room w/ walk-in closet, friendly staff, would stay again.

<3 u SF, miss u already

Did you peek in at the restaurant, Saha?

I had breakfast at the Saha when I stayed at the Carlton. It was terrible, but I doubt that says anything about the restaurant.

Props to the Carlton from me too. Only bad thing was that the wi-fi was extremely slow.

I haven't been to Saha in a while but it was a pretty cool place to get a decent Arab dinner cheapish before going to shows at the GAMH.

didn't even get to saha -- i didn't really give it a chance tbh, was too eager to go 'out' and eat

Frances is absolutely as great as everyone was touting it to be. Wow.

i kinda want to try this Frances place now. maybe after a month of employment.

Steve, I have good news for you.

Hehe, actually knew about that. I get a discount there but it's still pretty pricy imo. shrug.gif

Good meat, good cheese, good wine...

The only thing that ever really tempts me into Bi-Rite is their ham selection... I can find better seafood, beef, chicken elsewhere for less.... but their hammmmmmmmm ugh.

I had their soft-serve ice cream this weekend. It was ridiculous.

4 reals? i tried a sample and it was non-ridiculously equal to their other ice cream (NB: cold night, i'm not huge on ice cream). MWhite, do you know if the Bi-Rite will have ice cream (to compete with the new Humphrey Slocum outpost in Faletti/Dellesio)?

4 reals. I love soft-serve though and it was the salted caramel flavor. I think a soup version of that might be great.

yeah the salted caramel soft-serve is dope. the line of hipsters waiting for their scoops of honey lavender and ginger brown sugar while the soft-serve window is walk-right-up = pathetic and anti-summer imo

MWhite, do you know if the Bi-Rite will have ice cream (to compete with the new Humphrey Slocum outpost in Faletti/Dellesio)?

I don't. Other competition is 3 Twins on Fillmore.

Honey Lavender ice cream sounds awesome right now. My sister and I made some in the south of France one summer.

"while the soft-serve window is walk-right-up = pathetic and anti-summer imo"

Yeah it's crazy. The line is around the block when you can just get your soft-serve in seconds.

disgusting savages

not that I don't take M. White's point, but it's one thing to crave the honey lavender and another to just turn up your nose at soft serve.

I turn my nose up at waiting in line.

Not really feeling the Humphrey Slocombe love. I like trying new flavours but the few I've tried haven't actually tasted that great, including something basic like apple sorbet. Haven't tried the coffee one though, and I should because I <3 coffee ice cream. They had a limoncello one that was awesome as well. But I'll go for Bi-Rite every time. (I have tubs of salted caramel and honey lavender in my freezer right now!)

Booked a meal at Range for my anniversary, anyone been?

well then stop by the soft serve window on Sunday for salted caramel

i have got to get there on a Tuesday for the spicy mexican chocolate...

and maybe tonight for balsamic strawberry

(xpost)

It's been a while but I liked Range.

Btw, the cardamom ice cream at 3 Twins is delicious.

i'm not generally super-excited about humphry slocombe but i'll stan for their ancho chocolate 4vr

M have you tried Bombay Creamery?

Nope. Where?

humphrey slocumbe coffee = vietnamese ca phe iirc. blue bottle as well iirc. pretty f'n epic iirc.

i love VN coffee tho, ymmv.

but i'll stan for their ancho chocolate 4vr

I'm definitely going to try this

You can get pints of the regular non-soft-serve ice cream at the soft serve counter so if you are super craving Honey Lavender you're still good.

I probably eat less than a pint of ice cream per year.

Almost all of my lactose intake is in the form (ha ha - etymological joke) of cheese.

valencia between 16th and 17th

rosewater, rose petal, sesame, cardamom, fig, etc etc...

http://www.yelp.com/biz/bombay-ice-creamery-san-francisco

Hmm, that sounds familiar.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2509/3715674961_31a9cf94bf.jpg

Keep meaning to go there! I'll make a trip tomorrow.

btw if i could get my ice cream intake down to m. white levels i'd be a fitness model today ;_;

Next door is an Indian grocery, right?

yep. they're affiliated.

Bombay is good.

ahhh remember those heady days when Valencia was not a torn-up war zone.... seems so long ago....

Want no lines? Head down to Mr and Mrs Miscellaneous in the Dogpatch. That is some yummy ice cream!

I was there last weekend! Forced to choose between Maker's Mark ice cream and Anchor Steam ice cream. So cruel.

the ice cream at bombay is pretty good. we have hundreds of ice cream places in berkeley and I eat way more than I should, I feel kind of spoiled on this treat, but still haven't made it to bi-rite. three twins is great though, in fact, getting some today at the farmer's market.

i had some of that yummy bombay ice cream on the very hot day of bay to breakers 2009

you gotta go to bi-rite, come on.

stop posting and get outside you crazy indoor people.

gonna be in sonoma county for three days in august for a big family wedding, but then after that i've got two full days (16th & 17th) to fart around in the greater bay area doing whatever i want. thinkin i'm interested in some outdoorsy day-date activities for two, like i dunno renting kayaks and kayaking around, or renting bikes and biking around? or hang-gliding, do people still hang-glide? if anyone's got any suggestions, that would be cool, thanks!

There is some great kayaking to be done in Tomales Bay which is western Sonoma County. It's seawater but a really long inlet so it's pretty well-protected/sea-walled. Maybe the Russian River from Healdsburg to Jenner?

There's great biking of all types to be done everywhere.

Hang-gliding: gotta go to the glider port in La Jolla dawgg.

Sonoma County's Best Eco-Adventure!! The remote 8 mile “south of Healdsburg” run is the “primo” summertime paddle on the Russian River. This section has the most water in the dry summer months, the cleanest water for swimming, and many wonderful beaches for picnicking and sunning. Because there are no houses or roads nearby, the bird and wildlife is amazing. This is a perfect trip for families, couples, and corporate outings. We limit the number of SOAR canoes so that the river is not over crowded! -- Dog and people friendly.

hmmm, i'm staying in windsor, and healdsburg is where all the wedding stuff will be, so russian river sounds pretty much perfect. as far as renting bikes goes, is there a place you'd recommend renting them from and/or a recommended route for novices? thanks Steve!

That sounds pretty epic. My mother is not very outdoorsy and yet, I always take her to that stretch of the river everytime she visits because it's so amazing. They film many european/japanese luxury sedan commercials (POV of driver) on that stretch of highway as it is that stunning.

No idea about bike rentals but I'm sure any of the places should be able to hook it up righteously. One thing to keep in mind is that inland (Windsor) may be pretty scorching in August as opposed to the coast. Maybe like 10-20F differential. Bring water and plan routes accordingly.

Maybe the Russian River from Healdsburg to Jenner?

I spent last weekend outside of Monte Rio and I highly encourage you to do this. It was idyllic last weekend and the little floating down the river we did was exquisite.

yeah, it sounds great. stoked to dan cortese it, extreme style. re: the heat in august, i'm sure tomales bay would be way more comfortable, but i guess i just can't see it matching the appeal of a windy river adventure. bay kayaking seems like it would mostly just be going back and forth between the two shores while avoiding motorboats?

well you could fish and poach oysters #illegally#. not a lot of water traffic ime tbqfh

russian river brewery is stupid for not locating their brewery on the actual russian river

or in russia for that matter.

I just read this thread for five minutes. You're all going to get FAT

Going to?

Topographical crime map of SF

http://dougmccune.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/right_500_2.jpg

from http://dougmccune.com/blog/2010/06/05/if-san-francisco-crime-was-elevation/

that's amazing. and i'm moving to the richmond.

Look at those menacing prostitute sharks

prostitution = the Transamerica pyramid?

Wonder what the little prostitution bump out in the Richmond District is.

I'd imagine that street-level prostitution is a very small % of the total

not if you hung out at 19th and Shotwell

xp so there's a little prostitution house out in the Richmond District. Bets on whether it's Russian or Chinese?

maybe some sorta russian-chinese joint venture

Russo-Sino House of Ill Repute

http://www.yelp.com/biz/club-hong-kong-san-francisco

lol that's probably it.

That place was always so quiet when I worked @ Green Apple actually. I doubt there were too many busts there.

I heard that THE original fern bar is in San Francisco. Can anyone confirm?

Supposedly it was Henry Africa's, but that's long closed.

a hooker pinched my butt on shotwell last year

wow, really? They don't just give that shit away, you know.

Except @ the 500 Club ;)

i went to george washington high school in the richmond, and they busted a house across the street for prostitution.

club hong kong was always shady, they were firebombed some years ago.

Except @ the 500 Club ;)

haha. I feel like I should clarify that but nah

i went to george washington high school in the richmond

class of?

maybe some sorta russian-chinese joint venture

― iatee, Wednesday, June 16, 2010 2:31 PM (57 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Russo-Sino House of Ill Repute

― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, June 16, 2010 2:31 PM (57 minutes ago) Bookmark

when loljoeks = truth: there are a few Mongolian hostess bars/brothels in that hood, watch yo back!

"i went to george washington high school in the richmond, and they busted a house across the street for prostitution."

So did my brother!

Go to GWHS, not get busted across the street for prostitution that is.

Except @ the 500 Club ;)

Ha ha

"when loljoeks = truth: there are a few Mongolian hostess bars/brothels in that hood, watch yo back!"

Do the Mongolian hookers sneak up on you?

The Richmond is kind of notorious for maison closes in SF, though, I thought.

class of 2000, except i dropped out.

The Richmond city is kind of notorious for maison closes in SF, though, I thought.

fixed.

I bought this in a bookstore around the corner from "Fig On A Plate Cart"'s old apartment:
http://www.literatureview.com/moxie/moxiepix/a49.jpg

The Adams of San Francisco

xp you probably read that before you read Dying Inside, amirite?

Actually I still haven't read either =/

Heading towards wine country (ie. north of SF) in September. Any particular recommendations?

Also, do you see David Sylvian pottering around the Napa Valley looking a bit sad?

I wanna go back to the Sonoma coast, it's well moody. I'm not a big wine person. I just like creepy trees, fresh oysters and making a screwface.

This month's Lonely Planet magazine is good on SF, in a holiday porn sort of way.

Adam, that's an entertaining book.

had no idea sylvian lived up there. i'm gonna go walk around looking for him.

fave restaurant up in yountville (just north of napa) is thomas keller's http://www.adhocrestaurant.com/

fave wineries (off top of head) are robledo, schraumbsberg, scribe & duckhorn

Favorite tasting we had in Napa was Hope & Grace right on the main drag in Yountville. If you spend the night most hotels have deals for free/discount tastings as well.

I so want to try these ...

2007 Big River Ranch syrah
Our boldest and most memorable syrah. A Dark hue and stirring bouquet of licorice and espresso lead to rich flavors of blackberry and caramel-tinged spice. |

2007 Big River Ranch petite sirah
Pipe tobacco, sarsaparilla, blueberry and black cherry. A cult favorite – petite sirah at its inky-black best!

this thread is totally gentrified!

Sylvian lives in new england, afaik

Quick straw poll for SFsters: where's your default go-to place for ordering in pizza? I tend to go for Deja Vu on 16th, their sauce is nice and herby and I like how when you go in and order a slice it's actually two slices, freshly baked.

Good question. We usually end up ordering Extreme Pizza, because they are quick, but I'd love to hear any actual GOOD places to order from in the Outer Mission/Excelsior area...

pizza for pick up is either delfina or little star, but tony's is the best pizza i've had in SF.

oh yeah, I guess I meant places that deliver - most (if they deliver at all) seem to do free delivery within the city, right? Deja Vu do. Voodoo.

Tony's looks niiiice!

my favorite SF pizza delivery was Victor's, but my impression is their delivery area is small (nob hill, russian hill, polk) Escape from NY is okay for a chain delivery place.

Have you guys been to the Hyde Out bar on I think Hyde and California? I had a lot of fun there

i think i just heard paxti's might start delivering soon. but don't quote me on that

re: pizza I pretty much just go with either Twin Peaks or Zante's. nothin fancy

will walk to Escape from NY if necessary tho

tbh, i'm quite fond of Round Table for delivery. i know there are haters, but the wife grew up on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sylvian#1993:_With_Robert_Fripp
A period of relative musical inactivity followed, during which Sylvian and Ingrid Chavez moved from Minnesota to the Napa Valley. Chavez had given birth to two daughters, Ameera-Daya (born 1993) and Isabelle (born 1996), and pursued her interest in photography and music.

yeah but they got divorced ages ago. I think I read about him making blemish in new england somewhere. I could be wrong. he could be moaning about a vineyard right now.

Ian: two crust punks from sf (assuming based on CA driver's license and oakland raiders cap) paid with platinum credit cards today.

went to bar crudo for the first time on friday and was shocked at how good it was. flavors i wasn't expecting left and right. usually fusion adds asian elements to non asian foods but this went the other direction (sashimi with french/spanish flavors?). best soup i've ever had (it must have at least 20 sticks of butter per cup) and we left only paying 45$ each including wine and beer. stoked.

Crudo's good.

It's expensive for what you get imo. Haven't been to the new location oddly.

also jax: crudo = italian. it def fits your first definition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crudo

jeez i cant believe i missed the pizza question!

delfina sux dont go there
beretta is $50000 a slice it's stupid and even an egg on top cant make the crust good fellas
i appreciate serrano's no-BS approach, but their slices are only B+
escape from NY is good; fresh slice of u-say-potato is a good time
arinell's is v good; probably my favorite standard slice in the city
blondie's reminds me of pizza at the pool growing up and i liked the pool but it's not actually good
lanesplitter is okay but they burn it too often but i like beer w pizza and their beer selection is chill
zante somehow makes the best crust in SF and it's NAAN -- too expensive for a slice-place, but the veg indian pizza is truly something to get high and eat
flour+water's pizza is embarrassing, but i like their atmosphere and non-pizza food, and they played slanted and enchanted last time i was there, and that is a direction i approve of for FINE DINING
pizza man in oakland is infamous for sucking, but aside from being about 2in too thick, they kinda dont do a horrible job. plus $2.50 for a huge slice and a coke.

i dont like chicago-style, but i hear zachary's is kind of a cool experience if you just suspend judging it on a PIZZA basis, and just pretend it's some random alien food.

serrano's is actually B- sorry i slipped

if you like chicago-style, Zachary's is truly awesome pizza

yeah, i think i gotta try it sometime...

69 you sux. pete let's do scrabble at tony's sometime. i'd like to get your opinion of it.

dust off yr MAXILLAE

Zachary's isn't in SF

chill

there isn't an "Oakland and what to do in it" thread

not get shot

visit Fairyland

Emilia's in Berkeley is the best east bay pizza.

some of us would have to borrow kids to go to Fairyland

there is most def an Oakland thread (started by ADAMRL) and even a Berkeley thread if you so desire.

Little Star>>>Zachary's

not sure if that many >'s, but yeah, it is pretty good.

haha

The best Bay Area pizza I had (best ever! in fact) was Gioia which is not in San Francisco. But if you want good pizza you might have to cross that bridge, bitches.

When does Una Pizza Napoletana open up?

berkeley has a ridiculous amount of great pizza places for a city its size

i hear the arinell's in berkeley pales in comparison to the mission location?

sarah you can borrow my kid

i still sometimes eat zachary's but little star's much better deep dish pretty much ruined it for me. I actually like zachary's thin crust pizzas a little more these days, I think they are completely serviceable.

emilia's is good but not markedly better than gioia or however it's spelled.

arinell's in berkeley is terrible, or was the last time I ate there, which was 12 years ago.

i see everyone also said everything I said (bar the bit about sarah borrowing my son) so I should just shut up

okay, i have to try little star now.

it's amazing. their ingredients are very fresh, particularly the tomatos. zachary's taste like they have canned sauce in comparison.

guys, just to reiiterate: Tony's in SF won the WORLD PIZZA CUP in 2007. In Naples, Italy. The first non-native Italian pizza maker to win this distinction!

there's nothing that compares in my opinion, although I think the 69 is seriously under-rating Delfina and flour+water (or needs to go to those places with me). his short shrift dismissal is pretty "whoa".

Pizza in Naples sucks

let me guess, you spilled some all over your computer?

flour+water is pretty great and right around the corner from my house. always a line out the door too. I felt stupid when we went there because everyone ended up ordering the same thing (by mistake), didn't really get a sense of the rest of their menu at all

Tony's is great but I still prefer the pizzas I make at home. Can't wait for Giuliana's in the Metro hotel, though, since it'll be 1/25 blocks from my house.

I haven't done flour+water but Delfina's pizza is pretty good so I'm no really sure where 69 is coming from. Yeah, it's fancy pants and all but I had a fiddlehead fern/ricotta pizza there (albeit ages ago) that I still recall quite fondly.

basically, im just not hurtin for fancy pizza ever, and there's always six places in any big city that do it fine. coppi's, 2amy's, and pizzeria paradiso in DC; delfina, flour+water, and a16 in SF. and it's FINE! and ive never had pizza in naples, but ive had it in sorrento and venice and florence and rome, and all these american places are doing FINE at DOC-style pizza.

but like, i just want a great NY-style slice, and i cant understand why that is so hard to find here! the ideal is koronet in manhattan, but (and i understand this is a rare opinion) DC jumbo slice from adams morgan pizza boli's (not really the same as the normal pizza boli's slice, so cant really be compared to their non-jumbo delivery style) is better than any slice ive gotten in SF. my other DC pizza favorites (baffetto's, vace, astor mediterranean) are kind of non-standard slices, so its not like DC is busting at the seams with great slices either, but it's there!

btw y'all should definitely go to flour and water, if not for the pizza! maybe the same is true for delfina; ive never had anything but pizza there...

mario batalli (i know ymmv) said that the pasta chef at flour + water is the best in the usa, maybe the world (but to be fair this was when that chef was at spruce).

batalli is bomb. just saying. babbo and both mozza's are amazing.

everything i had at flour + water was amazing (except for a weirdly cooked fish). i'm w/pete on fancy pizza. could take it or leave it. delfina is meh to me. i'll still rep for pizzaiolo in temescal

when i said spruce i meant quince 2 posts up. weird.

batalli is mediocre, just my opinion, everyone has diff taste buds and culinary background/points of reference.

We went to Quince the other night, and were kind-of bummed-out. Everything was way too super-buttery and rich. We had a couple of pastas that would have been PERFECT in a broth, but were instead swimming in butter-based sauces. The gnocchi at Frances were much better than anything from Quince (and maybe better than any THING).

yeah flour + water poached the chef from Quince who made my meals very memorable there.

annie and i are going back for our third dinner at frances next month, and im already excited!

pizzaiolo is great but I've been there maybe ten times now and it's not very surprising any more. but I should maybe get something other than what I normally get (except I'm vegetarian so that limits my options).

Yeah, I was just at Frances and we had enough people to get the whole menu. Going back in July. Great place.

http://www.millenniumrestaurant.com/restaurant/index.html

bit expensive. worth it?

_▂▅▇█▓▒░◕‿‿◕░▒▓█▇▅▂_ = chef groupie

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Millenium? If that's the veggie place in a hotel in downtown (and judging by the menu I just looked at, I think it is) then that is the HANDS DOWN BEST vegetarian food I've ever had in my life. Most creative, most "ooh, I've never eaten that", most utterly OMG DELICIOUS food I've ever experienced.

Granted, I was eating on my millionaire brother's tab, but honestly - I understood after the meal why it was worth it.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31hzECmF1kL._AA300_.jpg
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http://www.sixstaruniforms.com/Merchant/graphics/00000001/RT-7397-DOLLAR-SIGN-VEST-b.jpg

oops didn't quite work

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool carnivore and I like Millenium fine.

haven't been to millenium in many, many years after 3 visits but Ubuntu up in Napa was undoubtedly the best vegetarian restaurant in these parts. Unfortunately it is either no longer or the chef has moved on but the 3 times I went to Ubuntu were really amazing. They had this cauliflower dish that I still makes me smile just remembering it.

Way down the line but I'll be back up there in two months for On Land during Labor Day weekend -- the evenings are booked by default but most of the days otherwise should be free. More as the time gets nearer!

aww we will be in portland so no dice this time nedder

suxorz

pizzaiolo = awesome
delfina = awesome
little star = awesome
beretta = just ok

i'll back up any supporters of arinell's in sf. reaaaally good cheese slices there.

anyone hear about that guy in oakland who makes pizzas by appointment out of a garage or someplace? would like to try that.

and omg i have been wanting to try tony's for so so so long

boot and shoe service?

arinell's is good for drunken slices but i made the mistake of ordering a full pie there only once. ugh.

we get full pizzas from there a lot -- what was yr issue?

boot and shoe service is pizzaiolo's sister restaurant and the menu I looked at seemed similar, but maybe more options, not sure. haven't been yet.

millenium was good but I haven't been there in at least five years. it is better than Greens though for vegetarian food (Greens was just really boring the last time I went).

i used to work at green's - the food is always hit or miss (except the black bean chili, which rules)and they still do the same stuff they were doing in 1981, keeping it safe for the old people and tourists. the dining room is lovely though for the view.
millenium made me go "oooh and ah" back in '94 or so. but they've never progressed or changed so i don't think the place is exciting anymore. it's overpriced, of course, but the things they do are also easily recreated at home

@69 ha my issue was it sucked but maybe it was just a bad day

like what, too dry?

Anyone been here ... ?

http://burkescanoetrips.com/

*I realise this is a bit like having a thread about London and then asking a question about Oxford but hey ...

Nope but it looks fun.

yeah it hink we talked about it upthread, that's an especially gorgeous part of the bay area. one of my favorite drives/bike rides is along that route. I've never done kayak or canoe on that stretch though.

Am rubbish at deciding what to do on the day, so am hoping to plot out an itinary for a San Fran holiday. Do suggest things to do including places to eat and places to visit to break up some of the long journies. Ta.

Wed 08 September - The Powell Hotel, Cyril Magnin St, SF

Thurs 09 September - The Powell Hotel, Cyril Magnin St, SF

Fri 10 September - The Powell Hotel, Cyril Magnin St, SF

Sat 11 September - The Powell Hotel, Cyril Magnin St, SF