The new era of teen was foreshadowed when a couple of Norwegian 15-year-olds (Marion Raven and Marit Larsen) sang "Don't say you love me/You don't even know me" and got it onto the Pokémon soundtrack. I wouldn't have put money on a shift from dance-pop to confessional rock being a good thing in the land of teenybop, but it has been, though if you look at the Disney airplay list I'm gonna post, you'll see that pop and rock may come and go, but ballads are forever. And so are novelty tunes.
One more thing. I HATE Bowling for Soup's "1985."
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:15 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:20 (7 years ago) Permalink
1. CRAZY FROG - Axel F2. HILARY DUFF - Wake Up3. RIHANNA - Pon De Replay4. ALY & A.J. - Rush5. BLACK EYED PEAS - Let's Get It Started6. BOWLING FOR SOUP - 19857. AKON - Lonely8. CHEETAH GIRLS - Shake Your Tailfeather9. JESSE MCCARTNEY - Beautiful Soul10. B5 - Let's Groove Tonight11. HILARY DUFF - Beat Of My Heart12. HILARY DUFF - Come Clean13. AVRIL LAVIGNE - Sk8er Boi14. PUSSYCAT DOLLS - Stickwitu15. JOJO - Leave (Get Out)16. B5 - Dance For You17. KELLY CLARKSON - Because Of You18. USHER - Caught Up19. WEEZER - Beverly Hills20. CLICK FIVE - Just The Girl21. GWEN STEFANI - Rich Girl22. KELLY CLARKSON - Behind These Hazel Eyes23. KELLY CLARKSON - Respect24. SIMPLE PLAN - Shut Up25. BARENAKED LADIES - One Little Slip26. MADONNA - Hung Up27. CLICK FIVE - Catch Your Wave28. D.H.T. - Listen To Your Heart29. LILLIX - What I Like About
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:21 (7 years ago) Permalink
"What's In It For Me?" is the big single.
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:24 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:30 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:33 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:33 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:37 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:43 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:47 (7 years ago) Permalink
Download. She's great.
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:48 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:52 (7 years ago) Permalink
Tim, I'm not so hot on Hilary's "Alex the Seal." The greatest Hilary tracks are the two DioGuardi-Shanks numbers - "Come Clean" and "Fly," especially the latter, which is catchy of course but also sounds haunted, gorgeous, as if there is some distant snow-capped peak she's flying towards; her three new New-Waveish Go-Gos-like tracks are more enjoyable than "Our Lips" (well, two of 'em, anyway).
I recall "What I Like About You" as one of the better cuts on the Lillix album. I'll have to go re-listen, if I've still got it.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:57 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:58 (7 years ago) Permalink
xpost
Also, the word "safe," while not necessarily wrong, certainly is too simplistic. What's the dangerous chart pop that "Since U Been Gone" is making safe?
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:11 (7 years ago) Permalink
Jessica Simpson's "The Sweetest Sin" is still one of my favourite singles of the decade, though I imagine if anyone heard it and was turned off by it, they'd mostly be turned off by how "mature" it sounds. It's sort of an aching, grand piano-driven, bombastic elegance, a sound that, if it even exists in pop these days, I assume it would exist only in places like Josh Groban (places I assume I probably wouldn't care to visit)--much moreso anyway than in "teen" music. I can't think of a current pop song that less resembles Jessica's sister and Kelly Clarkson and Hilary Duff (or anyway, the little that I've heard by them). Not sure if this has anything to do with anything, but I agree with the point about teen-as-AC.
― s woods, Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:19 (7 years ago) Permalink
― s woods, Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:21 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:21 (7 years ago) Permalink
The teens I know listen primarily now to either (1) The Decemberists and Holy Modal Rounders and Nellie McKay and Baader-Meinhoff (2) Wu Tang Clan and Jedi Mind Tricks and Danger Doom and Kanye West.
Most slept-on teen-pop album of '05, by the way (unless Hope Partlow still counts): The *Darcy's Wild Life* soundtrack. Which goes like:
1 Take a Walk Sara Paxton 2:56 2 I Love Your Smile Tiffany Evans 4:17 3 Crazy Kinda Crush on You Nicholas Jonas 2:55 4 Bam Boogie Bent Fabric 3:15 5 We Need Some Money Brown, Chuck & The ... 4:28 Performed by: Brown, Chuck & The Soul Searchers 6 Hey Boy Fan-3 4:00 7 Walking the Dog Rufus Thomas 2:21 8 Monkey Man Specials 2:35 9 ABC American Juniors 3:22 10 Walking On Sunshine Nikki Cleary 3:41 11 Clothes Make the Girl Kristy Frank 2:42 12 There for You Sarah Paxton 2:07
― xhuxk, Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:25 (7 years ago) Permalink
Actually, Jessica's a subject for further research. I've got two singles: "I Think I'm in Love With You" and "Irresistible."
Chuck, Robyn's in the mail.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:27 (7 years ago) Permalink
― pscott (elwisty), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:29 (7 years ago) Permalink
I won't even need the rest of ILM if this thread becomes successful.
― edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:35 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:36 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:36 (7 years ago) Permalink
― edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:37 (7 years ago) Permalink
Girls Aloud are "pop" sure but "teenpop", I don't know - by origin they're a reality TV thing and would have been initially marketed to a wide-spectrum pop consumer, the latest album seems to be trying to crack a market I really do think is out there, a kind of pop equivalent of celebrity gossip-mag HEAT (which sells TONS here) - trashy, knowing, girl-about-town pop, aimed at a kind of just-post-student, first-job crowd (or that's what it makes me THINK of - being 23, not 13).
Their most teen thing recently was the song on their Xmas cash-in album about being "too old for Santa and too young for the sauce".
Heard on Smash Hits so far:
Brian McFadden - Irish Son - Catholic guilt confessional wimp-rock by ex-boyband guy.Sugababes - Ugly - self-help R'n'B with stringsMcFly - I'll Be OK - basically McFly are a powerpop outfit with a pop-punk accent. I don't like them. I loved some of their brother band Busted's stuff, though, who had no real 60s/70s influence.
― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:38 (7 years ago) Permalink
Eppy, I don't know! I didn't know European teenpop was stylistically related to chart pop. Just commenting more from a U.S. perspective. I think there's a market for teenpop that's more like the A*Teens in the U.S. Not too hot on U.S. kids just getting "safer" blandness (just generalizing again! I'd like to hear those Hilary songs you mentioned, Frank - we don't have a Radio Disney station here anymore) or sexed up stuff that's kinda inappropriate for them IMO.
xp - Chuck, I don't know if you were referring to my comments, but no, as I say here, I think U.S. teenpop seems like a hodgepodge of "safer" chartpop (Hilary, Jesse) and sexy celebrities (Gwen Stefani, etc.) that young girls are supposed to like,
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:40 (7 years ago) Permalink
Any YSIs anyone wants to provide will be welcomes with open arms.
― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:42 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:42 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:43 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:43 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:44 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:45 (7 years ago) Permalink
― edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:46 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:46 (7 years ago) Permalink
I find this pleasing.
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:48 (7 years ago) Permalink
Anyway -
Seems to me that in the UK new teenpop acts are few and far between at the moment, the pendulum is perceived to have swung and launches are all solo acts from groups or proven winners from somewhere else.
― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:48 (7 years ago) Permalink
Would someone provide a URL for Smash Hits radio?
(I was once on the Smash Hits masthead, albeit the Australian one.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:52 (7 years ago) Permalink
The "Smash Hits Chart" is weird, it may be a year-end or ringtone list, or it may be that Tony Christie and the Crazy Frog are still the favourites.
― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:53 (7 years ago) Permalink
(Maybe other teenpop does this too, I'm not saying it's just a UK thing, though I recognise the tradition in the UK)
― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:55 (7 years ago) Permalink
― fact checking cuz (fcc), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:58 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:59 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 5 January 2006 21:02 (7 years ago) Permalink
Amy Diamond - What's In It For Me?
― edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 5 January 2006 21:11 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Hillary Brown (Hillary Brown), Thursday, 5 January 2006 21:12 (7 years ago) Permalink
― pdf (Phil Freeman), Thursday, 5 January 2006 21:12 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Hillary Brown (Hillary Brown), Thursday, 5 January 2006 21:23 (7 years ago) Permalink
interesting point about the supposed Girls Aloud target audience. post teen, Heat, T4 i see the drill. possibly the biggest consumers in repect to surplus cash and from my experience seems to be the audience you'd most associate with alot of the top 40 albums of the year thou not of course all http://www.coolclarity.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=58888 no girls aloud but interestingly no frank fergusons oh and38 The War of the Worlds - Jeff Wayne 446,000
back to teen pop the stuff i really liked last year that was teen pop was the sort of attempts of find a girl Busted, the teleological grail of all that is good, The Faders, Kim Lian and Lovebites especially The Lovebites but the teens said no it seems, perhaps sixth forms (moshercore! nmindie!) and "life style" (what girls aloud portray but James Blunt is actually a part of?) are more appealing than songs about beating up boyfriends and so forth.
― pscott (elwisty), Thursday, 5 January 2006 21:26 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 21:50 (7 years ago) Permalink
I believe the kids still really like the pop punk, if I can judge by my 13-year-old half sister.
― Hillary Brown (Hillary Brown), Thursday, 5 January 2006 21:54 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 5 January 2006 21:58 (7 years ago) Permalink
I've good feelings about this track, so far.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 21:58 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 22:01 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 22:02 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 22:03 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 5 January 2006 22:03 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 22:06 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 22:07 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 22:09 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 5 January 2006 22:11 (7 years ago) Permalink
― George the Animal Steele, Thursday, 5 January 2006 22:17 (7 years ago) Permalink
Yep. She had that Lustra song ("Scotty Doesn't Know") from Eurotrip up on her MySpace page for a while. (Sidebar: I think that song rocks.)
Also, they like the Yellowcard, I believe.
Some of that stuff is bad and boring, and some of it is foot-tappy and cute.
― Hillary Brown (Hillary Brown), Thursday, 5 January 2006 22:21 (7 years ago) Permalink
Chuck "I still haven't heard Robyn or Rachel Stevens or Girls Aloud, though though I want to. What's so great about them again?" Eddy, man, I'm happily anticipating the joy that awaits you. Not so much with Rachel - her few singles are fantastic (plus of course, 'Crazy Boys') but the albums really haven't endured in the same way that GA's 'What Would the Neighbours Say?' and 'Chemistry' have. And Robyn's Robyn works.
One thing, is that the new younger Emma Roberts/ Aly and AJ (who I believed to be teenpop antichrists pre- Rush) are remarkable in how LESS/ emptier their sounds are; watered down, less commited to either rocking or popping or punking out at all.
Lilix, they haven't been dropped yet? Bad songs.
The new Hilary stuff - as I tried to discuss in a convaluted mess with cis and Lex (?) was how neatly she's shifted from the grrl-rock game, now Ashlee and Lindsay are there, and into the electro 80s synth sounds, appropriating the Killers elements rather than Avril. Which, if 'Beat of my heart' is to be judged, and 'wake up', seems a smart move. The earlier 'come clean' era was good, but I'm liking the new shift. Didn't the Maddens produce those Most Wanted bonus tracks?
McFly - Dadrock indeed, only their aesthetic is bemusing now too, looking at the '5 colours' era to their latest video which was very '2002 nu-metal alienation graphics' - not at all teenpop looking, more grey suits and flat hair.
― Abby (abby mcdonald), Thursday, 5 January 2006 22:29 (7 years ago) Permalink
Has she really shifted genres, though? Or is it just some '80s electro accoutrements on the same style songs? Listening to the clip of "Wake up" on iTunes makes me wonder.
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 5 January 2006 22:37 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Abby (abby mcdonald), Thursday, 5 January 2006 22:42 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 03:27 (7 years ago) Permalink
― DoG67, Friday, 6 January 2006 03:37 (7 years ago) Permalink
1 TONY CHRISTIE FT PETER KAY (IS THIS THE WAY TO) AMARILLO 2 CRAZY FROG AXEL F 3 JAMES BLUNT YOU'RE BEAUTIFUL 4 MCFLY ALL ABOUT YOU/YOU'VE GOT A FRIEND 5 SHANYE WARD THAT’S MY GOAL 6 AKON LONELY 7 PUSSYCAT DOLLS FT BUSTA RHYMES DON'T CHA 8 WESTLIFE YOU RAISE ME UP 9 2PAC FT ELTON JOHN GHETTO GOSPEL 10 MADONNA HUNG UP 11 DANIEL POWTER BAD DAY 12 SUGABABES PUSH THE BUTTON 13 MARIO LET ME LOVE YOU 14 NELLY FT TIM MCGRAW OVER AND OVER 15 SNOOP DOGG/WILSON/TIMBERLAKE SIGNS 16 NATALIE IMBRUGLIA SHIVER 17 GORILLAZ FEEL GOOD INC 18 MARIAH CAREY WE BELONG TOGETHER 19 BODYROCKERS I LIKE THE WAY 20 SCISSOR SISTERS FILTHY/GORGEOUS 21 BLACK EYED PEAS DON'T PHUNK WITH MY HEART 22 ROBBIE WILLIAMS TRIPPING 23 CHARLOTTE CHURCH CRAZY CHICK 24 COLDPLAY SPEED OF SOUND 25 WILL SMITH SWITCH 26 GWEN STEFANI FT EVE RICH GIRL 27 KEANE THIS IS THE LAST TIME 28 JENNIFER LOPEZ GET RIGHT 29 CORAL IN THE MORNING 30 UNITING NATIONS OUT OF TOUCH 31 LEMAR IF THERE'S ANY JUSTICE 32 OASIS THE IMPORTANCE OF BEING IDLE 33 GREEN DAY BOULEVARD OF BROKEN DREAMS 34 STEREOPHONICS DAKOTA 35 SUNSET STRIPPERS FALLING STARS 36 GORILLAZ DARE 37 GREEN DAY WAKE ME UP WHEN SEPTEMBER ENDS 38 OASIS LYLA 39 50 CENT CANDY SHOP 40 BLACK EYED PEAS DON'T LIE 41 KELLY CLARKSON SINCE U BEEN GONE 42 EMINEM LIKE TOY SOLDIERS 43 USHER CAUGHT UP 44 U2 SOMETIMES YOU CAN'T MAKE IT ON YOUR OWN 45 AMERIE 1 THING 46 ROB THOMAS LONELY NO MORE 47 SEAN PAUL WE BE BURNIN' 48 MVP ROC YA BODY (MIC CHECK 1 2) 49 RIHANNA PON DE REPLAY 50 GWEN STEFANI COOL This is the Smash Hits Chart compiled
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 03:44 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 03:48 (7 years ago) Permalink
Well, with nine shopping days left until Pazz & Jop, I'm in the midst of what's always equivalent to the Bataan death march an end-of-year delight, which is to reevaluate my favorite records of the year for possible poll ranking, and trying to catch up on the many records I've missed. To report on the latter endeavor:Madonna - I love the single, hate the rest of it. Lindsay Lohan - I hate the single, love the rest of it. (Isn't this what fundamentalists urge us to do: hate the single but love the singer?) Kelly Clarkson - way better than Christgau says it is, of course, but I can hear how incipient Faithisms and Celinetudes could weigh it down for him (and even for me, to some extent). Tatu - finely flimsied Europop at its finest, which surprises me (not the flimsiness or the Europop, but the fineness, since the single they emerged with several years ago had struck me as finely diced dime-a-dozen Europop and I didn't believe the hype; maybe the difference is no Trevor Horn this time).
-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), December 17th, 2005. (Frank Kogan)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's see, in the previous post I should have deleted the comma after "ranking" and changed "and trying to" to "and try to"; and I should have changed "way better than" to "far better than," so that the sentence wouldn't have been weighed down by a surfeit of "ways" and "weighs."
But to relate these albums to the putative subject matter of this thread:
Madonna wore a cowboy hat on the cover of her previous CD, which has nothing to do with the new album, or with the previous either, as far as I could tell, but here she is and I'm talking about her. The new CD is even duller than the others she's put out in the last fifteen years, which shocks me though probably shouldn't have, but I had hopes for this thing because (1) I love the single, and (2) I'd liked chief collaborator Stuart Price's Les Rythmes Digitales album from 1999 enough to have put it on my Pazz & Jop ballot (after which I totally forgot about him and it until seeing some ILM discussion several weeks ago lauding his subsequent career remixing any and everything under pseudonyms such as Jacques La Cont, Thin White Duke, Zoot Woman, Pour Homme, Paper Faces, Man With Guitar).
So the single samples the riff from Abba's "Gimme Gimme a Man After Midnight," putting it in a beautiful setting and when the riff is absent giving a beautiful texture to the chords. And the rest of the album has equally beautiful textures, and wonderful troughs and swells whenever a song transitions from verse to chorus or chorus to verse or verse to break. What it doesn't have is a single melody worth transitioning too, anywhere, except for that one Abba riff on track one. So you end up with soggy high-class mood music, all the beautiful swells and stuff just weighing everything down - er, wait, I mean, hold on, I can't use "weigh" again, um, dragging everything down? drenching everything up? (Oh, I don't know.) Her voice makes the tracks draggy too, I don't know why; it's the sort that needs a melody, not an atmosphere, I guess. "Hate" is probably an exaggeration - no, it isn't, I really don't like the thing, but I'll admit there are musically worthy moments. The obnoxious "I Love New York" song is as stupid as Joan Morgan says in her Voice review (she loved the album except for this track) but is actually one of the few signs of life, probably because it cops the chord pattern to Iggy's "I Wanna Be Your Dog" (an odd riff for a Detroit chick to use in a tribute to New York, given that the Stooges' home base was Ann Arbor, but maybe she or Price didn't notice the resemblance to "Dog").
Maybe I'm listening wrong and can come to hear it differently.
Ah, Lindsay. Her voice is a loose blat in comparison to Ashlee's tough little battering ram, and so far she hasn't pulled her music together as powerfully as Ashlee has; but the loose blat and the woman's basic Lohanicity make everything feel playful no matter how devastated or introspective she thinks she's being. The band sounds like it's having a rollicking good time. This is probably inaccurate - my copy has no album credits, but I assume that rather than a band there's just some guy doing overdub upon overdub, which is how most of these things are made. Some spirit is in this. (Strange if the tenth spot on my P&J list comes down to who is more fun: Lindsay Lohan or the Hold Steady. Craig Finn of the Hold Steady clobbers her in the category throw-you-to-the-floor funny lyrics ("Tramps like us and we like tramps"!), not too mention basic goofiness of vocal delivery, but she scores high on general pizzazz and ongoing shamelessness. Speaking of which, remember when words like "pizzazz" and "shameless" pertained to Madonna?But to get bring us back to this thread, the best song on the Lohan, "I Live for the Day," matches "Kerosene" in virulence if not in stompability: "I live for the day, I live for the night, that you will be desperate and dying inside." (Glad to see that Lindsay has found a purpose in life) (though this was one of the songs she didn't co-write [writer's credits are available at allmusic.com].) And there's a meta moment worthy of Big & Rich where at the start of a the title, "A Little More Personal," she and a producer (or someone) are arguing over whether songs should have spoken intros (Lindsay in favor of them because they make the record a little more personal). But I kinda don't think Big & Rich will ever begin a song by singing: "God won't talk to me. I guess she's pretty busy." Or if they do, it won't get on the radio.
(My rationalization for posting this here is that by exploring what noncountry can and can't do, this tells us something about what country can and can't do. My real reason is that this is a more congenial thread than most to post on. And more fun.)
Close parenthesis after "pertained to Madonna?" And "at the start of a the title" should be, "at the start of the title song."
Kelly Clarkson - She's someone who could conceivably jump to country if she wanted to, since several of her songs (esp. "Breakaway") aren't far from the basic land of pop-country crossover, if she were ever to choose it. I don't think she knows yet which genre she'll settle into. She's playing big on CHR pop and adult contemporary so she'll probably continue offering the loud-bright-rock-and-gentle-ballad combo special. As of now she wants wall of guitars on her wailing choruses, which is something country has yet to allow.
She's got a love-is-the-drug my-love-for-you-is-toxic song (called "Addicted," appropriately enough) that is more flat-out pained and less knowing than you'd get in the country equivalents (or in Sheryl's or Britney's, for that matter): "It's like you're a leech, sucking the life from me/It's like I can't breathe without you inside of me."
the first time i felt like i was invading, that i was engaging in something inapporite, that seemed too personal, too raw for public consumption in a v v long time, was the artless but heartbreaking video for lohan's too personal. it was harder to consume than any of the confessional singer songwriter shit that i engaged in, and was liminal b/w public and private personae in a way that seemed genuinely transgressive/taboo breaking.
not in the sense of oh my god this is so shocking (ie the ultra conceptual madonna of like a prayer) but in the sense of leave the poor girl alone, hasnt she suffered enough...
its something i dont have the crtical vocab for--and it doesnt matter if its nto v. good musically (and it isnt)--strangely enough, that overshare personal detail stuff seems to come in two places, girl pop (and i hear it in the shangri las, in the crystals, in other places) and in country--and the only place i felt it this year was in my inital reaction to the awful mindy mccready situtaion. (ie:finally we have tammy back)
does that a) make me a bad personb) make sense
-- anthony easton (anthonyeasto...), December 18th, 2005. (anthony)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 04:12 (7 years ago) Permalink
Another interesting topic might be the way that country utilizes the child-abuse trope. Child abuse has been the subject of songs (T. Graham Brown "Which Way to Pray": "A little girl down on her knees/Saying 'Now I lay me down to sleep/Lord bless us with a happy home/And please make daddy leave me alone'"). Hank Snow had been an abused child, and he spoke out about child abuse, but as far as I know (which isn't very) he didn't make it an integral part of his image. Whereas in modern teenpop - Pink, Ashlee, Lindsay - singing about their suffering (don't know if there was abuse or just the usual divorce and/or abandonment) is an integrity move, something that's supposed to give songs and singers depth. (Which doesn't mean that it isn't gutsy, especially Pink's Missundaztood!. Ashlee's "Shadow" is a powerful song, but there are things in it that feel wrong to me.)
(This year on P&J's abandoned child front, M.I.A.'s said that she entitled her album "Arular" (which is her dad's political alias, just as "Lenin" was Vladimer Ilyich Ulyanov's poltical alias) in the hope that he'd see it and get in touch with her. That was one reason, anyway.)
-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), December 19th, 2005. (Frank Kogan)
Listening to Linsay Lohan now. Kinda thinking that way too much of it sounds like the single! The Cheap Trick cover is okay. I like the new wave synthesizers in "A Little More Personal." Beyond that, I dunno. I definitely I think I prefer Linsay more when she's LESS personal. (Oh wait, "If You Were Me" is on now. What a bouncy little bassline:) But she may have no more business doing ballads than Gretchen Wilson.
I really liked a disco song Hilary Duff did last year that Metal Mike sent me the video of, but I forget its name. Thought both of her actual albums were okay, but not okay enough to keep them. Never heard the greatest hits CD. May still have a soundtrack that's half songs by her and half songs by other people in the storage garage.
-- xhuxk (xedd...), December 19th, 2005.
There could also be a goth influence on country via Stevie Nicks (he says as Lindsy Lohan's seemingly quite good "Edge of 17" cover plays) or via Metallica (as in, say, harmonies on the first Big&Rich album). (What as Kim Carnes's and Bonnie Tyler's connection to goth, anyway?) -- xhuxk (xedd...), December 19th, 2005.
but which teenager doesnt over share, the adults around her should say something about it no? we keep forgetting with the tits, and the voice, that lohan is still basically a child.
-- anthony easton (anthonyeasto...), December 19th, 2005. (anthony)
"Who Loves You" on Linsay's album bounces too! I just may need to take more time with all those big bloated confessional slow ones.(I really know nothing about her life, so I'm staying out of that discussion. She was really entertaining in *Mean Girls,* however.)
(By the way, speaking of lives, Frank, you know Ashlee supposedly collapsed after a show in Asia late last week, right? Last I heard, on Saturday I think, she was still being hospitalized. Hope she's OK.)
Lindsay is old enough to join the Marines! Old enough to fight, old enough to direct your own video, I say. (I really don't know enough about the biz to know how such decisions are made.) -- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), December 20th, 2005. (Frank Kogan)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 04:23 (7 years ago) Permalink
-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), December 20th, 2005. (Frank Kogan)
(Ashlee's back in the U.S. with her family. Official reason for the collapse is exhaustion.) -- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), December 20th, 2005. (Frank Kogan)
>I really liked a disco song Hilary Duff did last year that Metal Mike sent me the video of, but I forget its name.<
'Twas "Wake Up."
-- xhuxk (xedd...), December 21st, 2005.
(By the way, if anybody's interested, Lindsay Lohan does "I Want You To Want Me" better than Cheap Trick ever did. It was never even close to one of their best songs, I've always thought, but then again, not until now did I ever notice what a great line "I'll get home early from work if you'll say that you want me" is. Getting home early from work is such an important thing in everyday life! Lindsay singing that line hit me the second time through. I've heard the Cheap Trick version thousands of times, probably, and the line never grabbed me.) -- xhuxk (xedd...), December 23rd, 2005.
Also, the bassline in "Fastlane" comes from "Roxanne" by the Police! -- xhuxk (xedd...), December 23rd, 2005.
Now I'm up to Hilary Duff. Never in the course of human events have so many melodies been lavished on such a tiny voice.
Well, for the Churchillian effect I wanted I should have said, "Never in the field of human artistry was so much melody lavished by so many on such a tiny voice."-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), December 24th, 2005. (Frank Kogan)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 04:35 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 04:36 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Hillary Brown (Hillary Brown), Friday, 6 January 2006 13:35 (7 years ago) Permalink
In terms of Max Martin rock action, let us not forget The Veronicas' awesome "4 Eva".
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 6 January 2006 13:54 (7 years ago) Permalink
Anyway. *Come Get It: The Very Best of Aaron Carter.* More fun than the Backstreet Boys's best of album? Maybe, I'm not sure. Best tracks: "Bounce," "A.C.'s Alien Nation," "To All the Girls," "Another Earthquake" (which was his pop-punk move, apparently; never knew he had one). Fun: "Aaron's Party (Come Get It)" (a "Parents Just Don't Understand" rip which I reviewed in a singles column in the voice several years ago), "My Internet Girl," "I Want Candy," "Oh Aaron." Still pretty bad, though justifiable for its ridiculousness: "That's How I Beat Shaq." Missing: "Iko Iko"; he covered that right? Maybe people thought including it would be offensive in the wake of Katrina?
I heard the Veronicas album a couple months ago (listened to it to write a show preview of their New York show), and thought it was ok, not all that distinctive, and wound up trading it in. Should I not have? (I think I probably thought it wasn't teen-pop *enough.* Though I vaguely remember the singer vaguely reminding me of Joan Jett once.)
― xhuxk, Friday, 6 January 2006 14:02 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 6 January 2006 14:05 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 6 January 2006 14:06 (7 years ago) Permalink
holy shit, stop the presses, on the stereo right now: 1982 john cougar song of the year: "crazy summer nights" by hope paltrow. sorry, silvertide, you just got beat!! (has metal mike heard this yet? he will spit out his diet pepsi for sure!!)(okay, that had nothing to do with country, i guess. but i had to say it.)
-- xhuxk (xedd...), July 25th, 2005. Oh, you were asking about Anna Nalick: she's 21, did "Breathe(2 A.M.)" -- don (dmxz...), September 28th, 2005.
Is she considered country, pop, r&b, or what?Also, who is Emma Roberts? Just got the CD in the mail; she appears Nickelodeon connected. (Also appears to have nothing to do with country music, but who cares.) It wouldn't play in my computer; gotta take it home I guess. But I really like these song titles: "Punch Rocker," "Say Goodbye to Jr. High," "94 Weeks (Metal Mouth Freak)," "Dummy," "Mexican Wrestler," "New Shoes"! I wonder if Shania has heard that last song. I already want her to be the next Skye Sweetnam or at least Hope Partlow, but she probably isn't, I dunno.
-- xhuxk (xedd...), September 28th, 2005.
Anna's in September 26, 2205 issue of People.Yeah, I read it; gotta keep up, yknow. "Nalick has toured almost nonstop since her debut CD, Wreck of the Day, came out in April." College student. But also "kicks off a headlining tour Oct. 6 and opens for Rob Thomas starting on Nov. 6," so headlining tour's more a tourette. I've seen the "Breathe" vid on VH-1 and on CMT's aforementioned "Wide Open Country"(with Mellanin, Crow, Truckers, Hootie, etc.) "On Meeting Rob Thomas: I rewrote matchbox twenty's "Push" when I was younger. I told him about it. He was like, 'That's awesome. Wait. When you were 12, you thought you could write my songs better than I could?'" Somebody had to tell him. -- don (dmxz...), September 28th, 2005.
On the other hand, I would definitely take the totally morally conflicted Hope Partlow song where she makes out with her friend's boyfriend ("Sick Inside") over the Big&Rich song where John Rich makes out with his friend's girfriend ("Never Mind Me") any day. (That'd be the second or third best song on the Partlow album, behind the great "Crazy Summer Nights", tied with "Everywhere But Here," slightly above "Cold" and the Disney hit "Who We Are", which has a cool blues riff by the way. Also, "Let Me Try" sounds like a cross between David Johansen's "Flamingo Road" and Lionel Richie's "Three Times a Lady," sort of. She has a really ace band, whoever they are. I forgot her album when listing top 10 candidates above; right now, I'd put it somewhere below Lambert/Carter but above MIA/Fannypack, I think, though logically I can see why others might totally disagree. Bottom line is, I'd rather *listen* to it than MIA or Fannypack.) -- xhuxk (xedd...), October 3rd, 2005.
(Actually there's a good chance "Sick Inside" > "Cold" > "Who We Are" > "Everywhere But Here" , now that I think of it. But why nitpick?) -- xhuxk (xedd...), October 3rd, 2005.
And speaking of noncountry singers whom we can talk about on this thread because Chuck talked here about someone whom she reminds me of, "Life After You" on the Brie Larson album is better than anything on the Hope Partlow - it starts with great sexy electro-disco oohs and ahs, similar to Pauline Rubio, then shifts effortlessly into a just-as-danceable Ashlee-Avril-Kelly-Marion I'm-over-you/I-will-flourish/I-will-survive brat-voiced bubblerock monster. The track is produced by the great Ric Wake, the man who helped invent Taylor Dayne and is usually the fellow working the dials on Celine Dion's best moments. The disco on the Brie Larson tends to fade after the second track, unfortunately, and the melodies plummet from "great" to "not bad, though there's another pretty good Ric Wake production (and a couple not so good) and a funny smart song about Brie's not getting along with her gym teacher (guess she doesn't want the gym teacher's perfume on her pillowcase, though she would like a C so she doesn't have to take the damn class anymore). Generally smart lyrics, mostly Brie-written. Promising. Exec. producer Tommy Mottola. -- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), October 18th, 2005.
Actually, "Life After You" eventually sounds kind of "Smells Like Teen Spirit"! But I like Hope's "Crazy Summer Nights," which sounds kind of like "Jack and Diane," about a hundred times as much. Brie sounds good, though.
-- xhuxk (xedd...), October 19th, 2005.
I like the "Finally Out of P.E." song on Brie Larsen's album more than the "Life After You" song; the former's just way more distinctive. There's something really generic about the former that I can't put my finger on (just like there's something really generic about Kelly Clarkson's "Since U Been Gone", which I like a lot but don't love, that I can't put my finger on; nothing generic to me about Ashlee's "La La" or Hope's "Crazy Summer Nights" at all). I mean, in "Life After You," I *guess* I hear the Rubio ooh-ahh beats Frank's talking about, *when I listen really really really close for them,* but even then they seem incidental; they're not nearly as in bubbliciously in-your-face and effervescent as they'd be in a great Rubio track. Honestly, I don't really even buy the comparison. Sounds more like pretty run-of-the-mill Hillary Duff gurgling to me. Which, again, is fine; I *like* Hillary Duff. And I like this song, but I think I like any number of other Brie songs just as much. (Right now it sounds to me like the album really picks up in the middle -- "Done With Like" which I keep hearing as "Done With Life," "She Shall Remain Nameless" which seems to have some really good high school cultural map specifics in it, "She Said," etc. That could change, though. Either way, a really good album. Better than any album Hillary or the Bratz have made. But not Partlow, I don't think. Yet.) -- xhuxk (xedd...), October 20th, 2005.
I meant "something really generic about the LATTER (i.e, "Life After You") that I can't put my finger on." "Finally Got Out of P.E.," in its own way, is unprecedented, just like "Crazy Summer Nights" in its own way is unprecendented. "Life After You," as the laundry list of teen I-will-survivers Frank likened it to suggests, is anything but. (But of course the thing about generic music is that it's great if you love the genre. I get the idea Frank has more use for that genre than I do. I also think John Cougar was better than Taylor Dayne!) -- xhuxk (xedd...), October 20th, 2005.
Btw, Hope Partlow is a tremendously gifted singer who makes everything sound easy and natural rather than capital-S "Spectacular," while actually what she does with her voice is rather spectacular, if only she'd make a spectacle of herself - which maybe she should, this being art and not life. I'm sure she'd be a good country singer if that's what she were to choose. In fact, she'd probably be a good anything singer, even death metal. As a stylist she's got a lot more sense and smarts than either Faith Hill or Celine Dion has (Celine's somewhat rooted in countrypolitan when she isn't being rooted in disco). Definitely in the pop-country range if she wants to be (where the Faith and the LeAnn play, and Cougar-style rockers worm their way midstream these days, and the skies are not cloudy all day except whenever LeAnn cries rivers).I haven't played the Partlow enough for it to really sink in. The things is, what Partlow would choose if she could, it seems, is to be Lisa Stansfield: stylized mastery and control and all that, with maybe an extra freshness in her smooth glides, and certainly more boom from the kick drums and more kick from the snare drums (I prefer Mellancamp riffs to Norman Cook beats, when it comes to backing one's stylishness); but veering Adult Contemporary nonetheless, which will be her destination unless the bucks lead her elsewhere. That could be a drawback, though not necessarily (AC is hardly devoid of passion and rock these days); but so far my other problem with the Partlow album is my failure to love any of the songs. This could change with more listenings; a stylist who makes things easy often sneaks her passion in on you. I certainly appreciate the girl, but I'm not aching for her yet.
-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), October 20th, 2005.
>kelly clarkson on mtv, the video that looked like some lost melodrama, all blonde on black, with heart break and a sort of undersung sadness/meloncholy...i dont remember the song, but how it was sung was more country and less girl singer, more lambert and less lohan...[anthony easton]Could be either "Breakaway" or "Because of You" (the blonder of the two) either or which could be country with (or without) a few tweaks, as could Hope Partlow's "Crazy Summer Nights," if you want to vote for any of them.
-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), December 28th, 2005.
Hope Partlow's "Girlfriend" - fast ZZ fizzies on the guitars. Another reason to consider the album country, though my favorite track is "Everywhere But Here," which is the least country/most teenpop feisty wail of a sad-happy I'm gone 'n' you'll miss me lament-triumph Ashlee-Lindsay-Lohan thing. -- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), December 29th, 2005.
I meant Ashlee-Kelly-Lohan thing. Otherwise, I'm being redundant. -- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), December 29th, 2005.
― xhuxk, Friday, 6 January 2006 14:32 (7 years ago) Permalink
P.S.S.) I also liked the Hope 7 album last year. Which means, if nothing else, that 2005 was a *hopeful* year for U.S. teen-pop.
P.S.S.S.) So hey, whatever happened to Skye Sweetnam??
― xhuxk, Friday, 6 January 2006 14:37 (7 years ago) Permalink
more fun hope'n'ashlee facts!1. hope does a song where she makes out with your boyfriend and pretends to feel sorry about it; ashlee does one where you accuse her of making out with your boyfriend, and she pretends she didn't and gets pissed off. (except i don't really know if either is pretending.)
2. ashlee opens her CD with a song that sounds like franz ferdinand; hope opens hers with a cool blues riff, just like frank says franz f. open theirs with, though i didn't personally notice it yet. (i think he compared it to a '60s garage punk doing "smokestack lightning.")
3. hope's "don't go" is a red light green light song (see also: ashlee kix reference), though not for the reason its title suggests.
4. ashlee does a song called "boyfriend"; hope does a song called "girlfriend." "girlfriend" is probably 2005's best abba song.
-- xhuxk (xedd...), October 20th, 2005.
Yikes, the Abba song "Girlfriend" sounds like is "Does Your Mother Know," which could have been written by Vladimir Nabokov. Creepy! But it was also Abba's hardest rock song. Maybe this is an answer record?Dullest track on Hope's album: Probably "Through It All."
― xhuxk, Friday, 6 January 2006 14:48 (7 years ago) Permalink
― my name is john. i reside in chicago. (frankE), Friday, 6 January 2006 16:12 (7 years ago) Permalink
"12. Skye Sweetnam, untitled (June 20): This is not necessarily an endorsement – just fair warning regarding which bubble-gum rocker the preteen at your house will likely be obsessed with this summer – you know, the shorty you already took to see Ashlee Simpson, Avril Lavigne and Hilary Duff."
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 6 January 2006 16:16 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 16:52 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 16:53 (7 years ago) Permalink
It would not have been possible for me to forget it, in that this is the first I'd ever heard of it.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 16:57 (7 years ago) Permalink
Ha, this just came in the email:
>
DAMONE RE-EMERGES FROM BOSTON ’BURBS WITH ISLAND RECORDS DEBUT6-WEEK TOUR WITH LESS THAN JAKE BEGINS JANUARY 18th IN ATLANTA 5-song EP, “Out Here All Night,” making waves in advance of 2006 summer release (January 3, 2006 – New York, NY) Damone is coming! After a recent local Boston show, The Boston Globe hailed Damone as the band that was “born for arenas and is simply biding it's time until it gets to headline in them.,” In advance of their long-awaited second album and first for Island Records, with a 2006 summer release, Damone hits the road for six weeks of shows with Less Than Jake, opening January 18th at the Masquerade in Atlanta.
Damone – charismatic lead singer and guitarist Noelle, Dustin Hengst (drums, vocals), Vazquez (bass, vocals), and Mike Woods (lead guitars, vocals) – took their sweet time putting the pieces back together over the past couple years and the early results are catching the ears of savvy programmers and rock cognoscenti via the Out Here All Night EP. The 5-song sampler – “Out Here All Night,” “What We Came Here For,” “Get Up And Go,” “Never Getting Mine (demo),” and “Time and Time Again” – serves notice that Damone has not lost its flair for “unbelievably hook-laden rock songs,” as CMJ raved back in the day.
Instilled with a strong love of ’80s glam-metal, some Runaways/Joan Jett-size girl-rock (to see Noelle in action is to believe), big Marshall stack guitar solos and badass attitude, Damone is all about the joy and excess of rock.
With the help of legendary mixing engineers Tom Lord-Alge (U2, Weezer, Marilyn Manson) and Mike Shipley (Def Leppard, Green Day, Andrew WK) putting the finishing touches on their upcoming self produced album, Damone has created a timeless piece of rock’n’roll, ready to be sandwiched in a “rock block” of Guns ’N Roses, Queen and AC/DC. “For me,” says newest member Mike Woods, “the story should go this way: it looked like it was going to end, quite literally for some of us, but it didn’t, so we made a kick-ass record and took over the world.”
For further information on Damone go to www.DAMONE.net<
― xhuxk, Friday, 6 January 2006 17:32 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 6 January 2006 17:38 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 6 January 2006 17:40 (7 years ago) Permalink
Who are "Pantra"? Does she mean "Pantera"? "Tantra"?? Also, I hope she covers "Back in the Mud" on her new album!
― xhuxk, Friday, 6 January 2006 17:43 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 6 January 2006 17:48 (7 years ago) Permalink
― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 6 January 2006 17:52 (7 years ago) Permalink
>>Instilled with a strong love of ’80s glam-metal, some Runaways/Joan >>Jett-size girl-rock (to see Damone's Noelle in action is to >>believe), big >>Marshall stack guitar solos and badass attitude, >>Damone is all >>about the joy and excess of rock.
Damone was so not Marshall stack and guitar solo on their debut. And if it had been more like Joan Jett, I would have actually liked it. And she was as badass as my housecats. Nothing wrong with that, but geeez.
>>With the help of legendary mixing engineers Tom Lord-Alge (U2, >>Weezer, Marilyn Manson) and Mike Shipley (Def Leppard, Green Day, >>Andrew WK) putting the finishing touches on their upcoming self >>produced album, Damone has created a timeless piece of rock’n’roll, >>ready to be sandwiched in a “rock block” of Guns ’N Roses, Queen >>and AC/DC.
Ha-ha. I don't get the reverse in adsmanship. Damone's never going to pass as a bunch of heavy rockers. What's wrong with being what they were and just improving it with, like, some passion in those songs?
This blurb reminds me of the blurb that was being peddled with Hanson's live album. "Guitar brutality!" it was said, excerpted from a review from USA Today or Entertainment Weekly. So I asked for a review copy. Big mistake.
― George the Animal Steele, Friday, 6 January 2006 17:52 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 6 January 2006 18:04 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Hillary Brown (Hillary Brown), Friday, 6 January 2006 18:07 (7 years ago) Permalink
I don't know. Nothing else on Most Wanted comes close. You should try Lindsay Lohan's "I Live for the Day," which is doing something very different (a vengeance rocker, basically, and joyous on its vengeful terms), and oddly enough is one of the few Lohan songs that Kara DioGuardi has no hand in, but it nonetheless has the same reverbed-mystery-lament feel. And then you should try Ashlee's "I Am Me," which is even more of a ferocious Dance Of The Woman Scorned and so is even farther in intent from "Fly"'s tremulous beauty ache - but buried in the song's melody (especially during the dancing-on-your-grave ending) the beauty is there, aching. Which isn't altogether surprising, given that Kara DioGuardi and John Shanks are among the song's writers, and John Shanks is its producer.
So, Tim F., if you're worried that by going for Lindsay and Ashlee you'll be diluting your love for Hilary, you should instead conceive this as expanding your love outward via Shanks and DioGuardi.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 18:31 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 18:32 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Abby (abby mcdonald), Friday, 6 January 2006 19:32 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 6 January 2006 20:01 (7 years ago) Permalink
Some will say that I'm counterfeitBut I will be who I want toSome will look at me and vomitBut I will do what I want to
Which is extra funny because to make "vomit" fit the meter and rhyme you have to mispronounce it, which she does but without hamming up the mispronunciation. I think she lifted this comic device from that Billy S. guy she likes so much.
Also, in a behind-the-scenes making-of-the-video short for "Tangled Up in Me" she demonstrated to us how they prepared the instruments for the shoot, so she's showing us the muffles they put on the drums; then she turns to the camera and silently mouths "We're not really playing our instruments" to the camera, as if imparting a great but confidential secret.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 20:42 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 20:43 (7 years ago) Permalink
I'm listening to clips of some of these on itunes. Sounds like a bigger production and she's got a good singing voice, but is it as ... believable or something? Does it not just kind of sound like some covers band doing a kind of average/blah assortment of songs, but dressed up in the studio?
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 6 January 2006 21:01 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 21:45 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 6 January 2006 21:49 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 6 January 2006 21:52 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Friday, 6 January 2006 21:53 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 21:56 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 6 January 2006 21:59 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Friday, 6 January 2006 22:00 (7 years ago) Permalink
xp - I always thought of Cheap Trick's version as a kind of believable '50s nostalgia. believable because it was about '50s rock and roll as a very rocking music! I think it's quite dynamite.
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 6 January 2006 22:02 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 22:03 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 22:04 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Friday, 6 January 2006 22:11 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 22:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
Speaking of Cougar rocks - though this is off-topic - last week I listened to Jessica Simpson's "I Think I'm In Love With You" for the first time in four years. It's the one that samples the brief bass-guitar fillip from "Jack and Diane" and otherwise is a basic dance-r&b number where she shows off Mariah melismas. It's likable, since she's willing to make the notes fluffy (which isn't to say that she fluffs any of the notes). But what's amazing is the Peter Rauhofer Club Mix that's included on the single. No Cougar notes, just driving, ominous techno and Jessica's "I think I'm in love"s sounding icy but heartbreaking, darting up and down above the jagged synths. Might as well be a totally different song.
(In general, I'm not one of these guys who says, "No, you gotta hear the remix.")
-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), December 28th, 2005. (Frank Kogan)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 22:19 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 6 January 2006 22:19 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Friday, 6 January 2006 22:23 (7 years ago) Permalink
And yeah, she's 17 (and I think the songwriting is often really good).
Mikael Wood's appraisal of her, Brie Larsen, etc, can be found here:
http://www.villagevoice.com/music/0552,wood,71326,22.html
And the fact that she picked peas on her family farm in Tennesse is pretty country, I guess! Perhaps country fans will eventually agree.
-- xhuxk (xedd...), December 28th, 2005.
Hope Paltrow is far too pretty to remain in the peapatch, for sure. -- edd s hurt (eddshur...), December 28th, 2005. (ddduncan)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 22:24 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 22:27 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Friday, 6 January 2006 22:29 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Abby (abby mcdonald), Friday, 6 January 2006 22:45 (7 years ago) Permalink
― 'Twan (miccio), Friday, 6 January 2006 22:50 (7 years ago) Permalink
― 'Twan (miccio), Friday, 6 January 2006 22:51 (7 years ago) Permalink
― 'Twan (miccio), Friday, 6 January 2006 23:00 (7 years ago) Permalink
Unfortunately, on first listen, it triggers loads of "naff" detectors in me – I think it's because being from "the rest of Europe" (ie not UK and probably Ireland), I've heard loads of terrible Euro stuff employing that not-actually-proper-reggae device, and associate it with Lame Continental Backwaterism. (Examples that have crossed over into UK/US(?) are "Live Is Life" by Opus and "Susanna" by "The Art Company".)
― The Vintner's Lipogram (OleM), Friday, 6 January 2006 23:46 (7 years ago) Permalink
He more than made up for it on that DVD I reviewed early last year, where he looked like someone's scary old grandmother. It's those sweaters. I never liked "I Want You to Want Me" on "In Color" and even less on the Japanese album. There Zander says this song is called "I --- Want -- You --- To ---- Want ---- Meee" like he's talking to retards and lots of small children. I could never get it out of my head. Irritating.
― George the Animal Steele, Friday, 6 January 2006 23:57 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Saturday, 7 January 2006 00:41 (7 years ago) Permalink
― 'Twan (miccio), Saturday, 7 January 2006 00:52 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Saturday, 7 January 2006 00:59 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Saturday, 7 January 2006 01:15 (7 years ago) Permalink
― 'Twan (miccio), Saturday, 7 January 2006 01:22 (7 years ago) Permalink
― 'Twan (miccio), Saturday, 7 January 2006 01:24 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 7 January 2006 01:30 (7 years ago) Permalink
So Hillary Duff is better at being Kelly Osbourne than Kelly Osbourne is.
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 7 January 2006 01:51 (7 years ago) Permalink
― 'Twan (miccio), Saturday, 7 January 2006 01:52 (7 years ago) Permalink
― 'Twan (miccio), Saturday, 7 January 2006 01:53 (7 years ago) Permalink
i guess you could kelly's album does the new wave thing more sloppily than those new hilary tracks do, but i'm surprised courtney love fans would take offense at that.
― 'Twan (miccio), Saturday, 7 January 2006 01:55 (7 years ago) Permalink
?????????
:-0
― cancer prone fat guy (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 7 January 2006 01:55 (7 years ago) Permalink
― 'Twan (miccio), Saturday, 7 January 2006 02:02 (7 years ago) Permalink
― 'Twan (miccio), Saturday, 7 January 2006 02:03 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Saturday, 7 January 2006 02:28 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Saturday, 7 January 2006 02:30 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 7 January 2006 02:37 (7 years ago) Permalink
only if you can't take the ribbing, ya old fart.
― 'Twan (miccio), Saturday, 7 January 2006 02:39 (7 years ago) Permalink
― 'Twan (miccio), Saturday, 7 January 2006 02:40 (7 years ago) Permalink
― 'Twan (miccio), Saturday, 7 January 2006 02:43 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Saturday, 7 January 2006 02:44 (7 years ago) Permalink
― 'Twan (miccio), Saturday, 7 January 2006 02:44 (7 years ago) Permalink
― 'Twan (miccio), Saturday, 7 January 2006 02:45 (7 years ago) Permalink
I'd also throw in "Suurbia," "I Can't Wait," "Red Light," and "One Word" in the replay corner, with the rest still being more listenable than "Beat Of My Heart."
― 'Twan (miccio), Saturday, 7 January 2006 02:49 (7 years ago) Permalink
― 'Twan (miccio), Saturday, 7 January 2006 02:50 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Saturday, 7 January 2006 02:57 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Saturday, 7 January 2006 02:59 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 7 January 2006 04:48 (7 years ago) Permalink
Also, "One Word" is cartoon-doom synth goth that swells into massive disco voluptuousness in its chorus, whereas "Beat of My Heart," synth or no synth, is basically Go-Gos cheep-cheep wave. So I don't see how one outdoes the other, as they're doing different things. Also, I love "One Word," whereas "Beat of My Heart" has so far only reached the category "I Have To Admit That This Is Somewhat Catchy, Even If It Makes Me Grit My Teeth." But once I admit that something is catchy, I'm well on my way to describing it as "catchy."
(The rest of Kelly O's alb is more rock than dance, and her dead monotone is correspondingly deadening. Some of it I can tolerate for minutes at a time. The rest of Hilary D's album is... well some it's this, some it's that, and some of it is yet some other thing.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Saturday, 7 January 2006 05:41 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Saturday, 7 January 2006 05:43 (7 years ago) Permalink
If she doesn't self-implode, she'll be a great, great actress. Her sense of timing is impecable--she nearly blew Jamie Lee Curtis off the screen in Freaky Friday--no easy feat. And how many Disney queen-ettes jump from Herbie to Robert Altman or a David Chapman bio-pic?
Her voice has a fascinating timbre; she's singing from her throat which lends it that elastic-about-to-snap quality that makes it blend wonderfully with overdubbed Lohans.
And yeah--I always felt like Cheap Trick did their song like they were embaressed at having come up with such a confection. Lohan totally nails it.
― Ian in Brooklyn, Saturday, 7 January 2006 05:49 (7 years ago) Permalink
I barely remember the Cheap Trick original, to tell you the truth. I suppose it's possible to like the two versions easily, but apparently this is not likely.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Saturday, 7 January 2006 05:54 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Saturday, 7 January 2006 05:55 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Saturday, 7 January 2006 06:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Saturday, 7 January 2006 06:20 (7 years ago) Permalink
Smashmouth always sucked. I am filled with hate.
I admit I am dulled by the thematics/presentation of most mainstream pop as such these days, beyond what musical weirdness can be used to spike the punch. At the same time nothing could be duller than the NPR/KCRW/Pitchfork 'quality' cloud of horrors -- I will always hate the Arcade Fire more than 50 Cent (or for that matter Dylan, though not Springsteen). I don't need a recreation of a twenty-year-old 'entryism' in the charts because that would be mere nostalgic frippery designed to assuage my soul instead of intrigue it but I'll be damned if I can sense a flashpoint that works for me at present.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 7 January 2006 06:26 (7 years ago) Permalink
I had to review both a Duff film (sheer horror, and Christian too) and Herbie. They sent writers to a test screenings. Median age: 10.
My GF's niece is 14. She likes new goth stuff. And that's all I know of (literal) kids today and their listening habits.
― Ian in Brooklyn, Saturday, 7 January 2006 07:19 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tom (Groke), Saturday, 7 January 2006 13:12 (7 years ago) Permalink
― m coleman (lovebug starski), Saturday, 7 January 2006 13:20 (7 years ago) Permalink
I like the *idea* of Evanescence, enjoyed seeing them at Webster Hall in '04 or so, but I will probably never get over them sounding to me like a thinner, clunkier, less beautiful, and therefore compromised version of my fave Dutch new age goth-metallers The Gathering. (For thin, clunky, less beautiful, and therefore compromised versions of The Gathering, I prefer Lacuna Coil. Or Lana Lane. Or Lullacry. The last couple of whom kind of suck, so I am obviously a sucker for the sound somewhat. Wish I liked the Top 40 version more.)
― xhuxk, Saturday, 7 January 2006 16:21 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Saturday, 7 January 2006 16:27 (7 years ago) Permalink
― The Vintner's Lipogram (OleM), Saturday, 7 January 2006 16:34 (7 years ago) Permalink
I don't think there are any Blink-182 songs I like more than "1985" or "Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo" except maybe "Dammit" and "Always," but if so its by a small degree.
― Zwan (miccio), Saturday, 7 January 2006 18:19 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 7 January 2006 18:46 (7 years ago) Permalink
Also Bonnie Pink, who i got from Edward's blog I think and I seem to remember is Japanese. Perhaps others can provide more info but I'm liking her at the moment.
― Nick H (Nick H), Saturday, 7 January 2006 21:06 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 7 January 2006 21:06 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Saturday, 7 January 2006 21:08 (7 years ago) Permalink
I want to like our new power-pop overlords in the UK, but the majority of them are in hock to complete shit (Son of Dork and Simple Plan, Rooster and Aerosmith, Freefaller and whatever the fuck it is they're listening to in order to sound that bad). I was hoping that The Faders would have songs as good as "No Sleep Tonight" in their repoirtoire, but it looks like we're never going to hear them now considering how little that and "Jump" sold. Love Bites aren't gonna happen either.
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 7 January 2006 21:11 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 7 January 2006 21:52 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 7 January 2006 21:55 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Saturday, 7 January 2006 23:44 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Sunday, 8 January 2006 00:40 (7 years ago) Permalink
vs.
Country less snappy than teenpop?
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 8 January 2006 03:10 (7 years ago) Permalink
Writer: Linda Perry, Stuck in the Throat/Famous Music Corp. (ASCAP)Produced and Engineered by: Linda Perry at Royaltone, North Hollywood, CAAssisted by: Chris Wonzer and Andrew ChavezPro Tools Engineer: David GuerreroAll Instruments and Programming: Linda PerryFrench Spoken Female Voice: Alephonsine de ChambureMixed by: Bernd Burgdorff for Empire7Assisted by: Shawn Parker
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 8 January 2006 03:17 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 8 January 2006 06:43 (7 years ago) Permalink
― jaymc (jaymc), Sunday, 8 January 2006 07:50 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Sunday, 8 January 2006 08:15 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Sunday, 8 January 2006 16:23 (7 years ago) Permalink
Agreed "Jump" was nowhere near "No Sleep Tonight" in quality terms.
― Nick H (Nick H), Sunday, 8 January 2006 17:02 (7 years ago) Permalink
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 8 January 2006 17:06 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Sunday, 8 January 2006 18:31 (7 years ago) Permalink
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 8 January 2006 21:09 (7 years ago) Permalink
What about the rest of the album? (Proving tough to find on s1sk this morning.)
― Mitya (mitya), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 15:33 (7 years ago) Permalink
Anyway, xhuxk, get 'em to send me a copy! What's this sound like?!
― George the Animal Steele, Sunday, 15 January 2006 21:17 (7 years ago) Permalink
― edward o (edwardo), Sunday, 15 January 2006 21:25 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Sunday, 15 January 2006 21:55 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Sunday, 15 January 2006 21:58 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Sunday, 15 January 2006 22:00 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Sunday, 15 January 2006 22:01 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Sunday, 15 January 2006 22:09 (7 years ago) Permalink
Anyway, are we actually saying they're teenpop? They seem more like a 90s nostalgia act to me. (Although a nice one.)
― Eppy (Eppy), Sunday, 15 January 2006 22:10 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Sunday, 15 January 2006 22:11 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Sunday, 15 January 2006 22:12 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Sunday, 15 January 2006 22:13 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Sunday, 15 January 2006 22:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Sunday, 15 January 2006 22:15 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Sunday, 15 January 2006 22:16 (7 years ago) Permalink
"Morningwood are an energetic and impressive bunch that have certainly speant lots of time with their Buffalo Daughter, Le Tigre and Breeders records, but not so much as to let in infringe on their own innovative sound and style."Village Voice
But the Morningwood album also includes more than a few songs that are unnecessarily, even perversely, awful. The next record executive to complain about slumping CD sales should be forced to spend the day playing "Babysitter" on repeat, listening to Ms. Claret moan, "Your mama, mama, mama shouldn't let me baby-sit." At the Bowery Ballroom, she worked overtime to entertain: she brandished a baton; she climbed up to the balcony; during "Take Off Your Clothes," she invited a suspiciously well-prepared woman from the audience to strip onstage. When Ms. Claret sang she often rolled her eyes, and she wasn't the only one.
-- The New York Times, yestiddy
This energetic combination of glam, garage, and new wave has been cooked up by something approximating an all-star lineup of musicians. Morningwood bassist Pedro Yanowitz used to rock it with (Jake) Dylan in the Wallflowers, and guitarist Richard Steel was in Spacehog. The ringmistress of this motley crew is singer/frontwoman Chantal Claret, who has a sexy voice that can go from raspy and husky to over-the-top cooing, and an alluring look, if the album's cover is to be believed. All the assembled players seem to be giving it their all on every track here, and their unbridled enthusiasm is contagious.
What's more impressive, however, is the way Morningwood trips from style to style over the course of the eleven assembled tracks. "Nu Rock" kicks things off with a totally thrashing garage rock sound that wouldn't have sounded out of place coming out of Sweden a couple of years ago. Two tracks later, "To the Nth Degree" borders on disco, or at least dance-pop, ratcheting up the glam factor...um, to the nth degree, I guess. "Jetsetter," meanwhile, is reminiscent of Weezer's "Hash Pipe"-era stuff, and "Everybody Rules" has a jazzy swing that makes me, honestly, think of Gary Glitter.
-- ugo.com
New York Magazine called them "one of the hottest bands changing the New York soundscape," while the Village Voice and Entertainment Weekly offer similar praise.
-- Some college wrapper, seeing New York Mag praise something vaguely rock and roll would generally be a warning to steer clear, much like being recommended through, say, NPR. Maybe worse.
Morningwood, "Morningwood" (Capitol) You can't stop the unflinching rock 'n' roll of Morningwood. You can't even hope to contain it. It's bursting with sexual energy and so much testosterone that you have to hand it to singer Chantal Claret, who can rock out under the moniker Morningwood with the unbridled enthusiasm of Andrew W.K. and unhinged eroticism of Peaches
-- Denver Post
It's amusing that the reviews, including stuff I didn't excerpt from Lex-Nex are all over the place. Business-wise that tells me the label is spending a lot of money on promotion and artificial priming that's not even close to being recoupable.
In any case, that the NY Times basically hates Morningwood is like Rolling Stone "red book" rating. Quite possibly I'd like it.Impossible to tell really from most of the press which is standard garishly-painted boilerplace.
And that album cover definitely screamed "teenpop."
― George the Animal Steele, Sunday, 15 January 2006 22:18 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Sunday, 15 January 2006 22:21 (7 years ago) Permalink
He Phoned It In Yeah, Gary G. was the most jazzy of cats when it came to laying down the pitter-patterin' beat. But he's really really really the apotheosis of teenpop (with two meaning of "pop") now.
If Pylon tried to be Scandal.
This does not sound good. That would ruin Scandal. "Goodbye to You" to a G04 beat. Ouch, I'd hurt myself.
― George the Animal Steele, Sunday, 15 January 2006 22:23 (7 years ago) Permalink
Two facts I like: The performers in the group all look the same, and they co-wrote t.A.T.u.'s "All About Us" (maybe the sixth best song on Dangerous and Moving, which is not a problem with the song but rather due to the excellence of the t.A.T.u. album, which Stephen Thomas Erlewine at allmusic described in this way: "As Dangerous and Moving wears on — hell, by the second track — the icy digital sheen of the production starts to grate nearly as bad as the flat, bored vocals of the girls." (I like Erlewine a lot, actually, since his descriptions of why he hates something often give me insight into why I like it; not that I always disagree with his judgments.)
None of the other songs excerpted in the Veronicas' electronic press kit sounded nearly as good (on brief listen) as "4Ever," though there was one that was pleasingly similar to Kelly Clarkson's "Behind These Hazel Eyes."
I did enjoy the Verry sisses' electronic-press-kit clowning, especially Lisa-unless-it's-Jess saying that what she likes about a guy is when he's in bed.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 16 January 2006 00:34 (7 years ago) Permalink
It was in a promo blurb for the Voice's Siren Music Festival 2005, so it's from promo copy, not from a piece of criticism. (This isn't to say that promo copy can't ever be right, or good analysis, for that matter.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 16 January 2006 00:49 (7 years ago) Permalink
― reo, Monday, 16 January 2006 01:31 (7 years ago) Permalink
― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 16 January 2006 01:39 (7 years ago) Permalink
Haven't gone back and read all the Morningwood posts, but I'm confused -- are they being marketed as a teen pop act now, and if so, why? Or are they just on this thread tangentially? They've been bumming around NYC for a couple years, basically Yeah Yeah Yeahs bandwagon jumpers near as I could tell (which is to say, less intereresting than either Scandal *or* Pylon); the one show I saw, while I was DJ-ing between sets at Southpaw in Brooklyn a couple years ago, was completely awful, and very much as Anthony described it, and I said so in a gig-preview blurb I wrote for the Voice's listings section next time they came around: Unrocking garage rock fronted by an embarrassing loud woman who kept trying to hammer into our heads that they were all about SEX and they must be making us REALLY HOT even though, at least to my eyes and ears, there was nothing remotely sexy about either she or their music. They had a vinyl EP out locally at the time with a big pink tit drawn on the cover, furthuring rubbing in their dumb essence before existence we're-sexy-because-we-say-so baloney. Still, they weren't the worst band in town, I guess. Some people seemed to like them okay. I'd say most of the listings blurbs they got in the Voice were neither love em or hate em. Never saw the one quoted above, but yeah, it sounds like an advertisey Siren Festival supplement preview done by the promotions department, not something from the listings section. If they are indeed starting to take off nationally in some even meager way, I gotta say I'm kinda surprised. Jeanne Fury's review of their album (which I haven''t heard) should run in the Voice in the next few weeks....but anyway, back to my original question: What's teenpop about them?
― xhuxk, Monday, 16 January 2006 14:22 (7 years ago) Permalink
― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 16 January 2006 14:37 (7 years ago) Permalink
If "Boyfriend" is teenpop, then "Nth Degree" - the single - is.
― Zwan (miccio), Monday, 16 January 2006 16:34 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Monday, 16 January 2006 16:38 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Monday, 16 January 2006 16:45 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Monday, 16 January 2006 16:46 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Monday, 16 January 2006 16:51 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Monday, 16 January 2006 16:54 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Monday, 16 January 2006 16:55 (7 years ago) Permalink
If they're getting marketed as teenpop, that's because they're on a major label and they don't know how else to promote them.
They've been on late night shows and such. Has anyone gotten a promo copy? Could you tell what market they were leaning toward? I know the song's getting played on the radio somewhere or other, I just don't know what kind of stations.
― Eppy (Eppy), Monday, 16 January 2006 17:03 (7 years ago) Permalink
They're a group with roots in the NY scene that inspires audience stripping, dude!
― Zwan (miccio), Monday, 16 January 2006 17:05 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 16 January 2006 17:06 (7 years ago) Permalink
Conveying information != repeating marketing strategy
― Eppy (Eppy), Monday, 16 January 2006 17:07 (7 years ago) Permalink
I'd be a little more impressed if they actually claimed to be influenced by Ashlee Simpson.
― Zwan (miccio), Monday, 16 January 2006 17:08 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Monday, 16 January 2006 17:09 (7 years ago) Permalink
If anyone wants to present evidence that Morningwood is being marketed as a teenpop phenom, we can continue discussing them, otherwise we can leave them behind all happy and stuff.
This is pop music, not stem cell research. I had a question, the reasoning which led to I've gone into -- twice. The band appeared to me to be marketed as teenpop instore. Nothing more. I was curious so I asked a question this thread. Da, verstehen Sie?
― George the Animal Steele, Monday, 16 January 2006 17:18 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Monday, 16 January 2006 17:29 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 16 January 2006 20:47 (7 years ago) Permalink
It seems to have worked - the disc came in at #6 on our weekly sales chart, 2nd highest chart debut for the week (behind Bleeding Through).
I'm listening now and... Well gosh, I think I love the band so damn much I don't much care if they're contrived or not. But I'm a sucker for female-led fuzzy-guitar power-pop bands (The Sounds are another one).
― Brian O'Neill (NYCNative), Monday, 16 January 2006 21:10 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 01:31 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 01:34 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 01:58 (7 years ago) Permalink
I think it's odd that the Veronicas are launching in the UK with "Everything I'm Not", which I guess IS kinda halfway between "Since U Been Gone" and "My Happy Ending", but with a lot less kick than either.
― edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 02:04 (7 years ago) Permalink
(And now Launch Yahoo is playing "All About Us," which is quite gorgeous. The video has the girls walking around wan and expressionless, as if they were forced to appear in a Depeche Mode video instead.)
OK, I'm watching Morningwood again, and I don't see how this doesn't dominate MTV. They're posing as Queen, then they're posing as Santana, then they're Kraftwerk, then they're Hole. And the song is more disco-wavy than I'd indicated (but DOR disco rather than British new-romantic disco).
And now Launch is playing Mariah's "All I Want for Christmas Is You"; the song achieves something I didn't think Mariah could pull off: a Ronettes-Crystals sound while Mariah still gets to be her vocal-trapeze-artist self. (I miss that Mariah. The new Mariah seems chastened and subdued in comparison.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 03:48 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 03:55 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 04:05 (7 years ago) Permalink
And now they're playing real teenybopper pop - that is, System of a Down's "B.Y.O.B." a song I find witty and catchy with its hammy la la la-la la-la-la-la ooooooo leading into a compelling r&b-ish party break, followed by thrash spinach concerning fascist nations and sending the poor to war. "Still you feed us lies from the tablecloth." I saw this band at the Pepsi Center; I was one of the two adults accompanying a couple of 12-year-olds and a couple of 15-year-olds. I told Naomi (my ex gf, mother of two of them) that I found this song very funny, and she said, "Funny? Frank, the words are very serious." In a serious tone of voice.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 04:43 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 07:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
Credits: Kelly Clarkson's "Addicted" written by Kelly Clarkson, Ben Moody, David Hodges; Evanescence's "Bring Me to Life" written by Amy Lee, Ben Moody, David Hodges; Moody was the guitarist in Evanescence, is the guitarist on "Addicted" and co-produced it with Hodges; "Hear Me" is written by Kelly Clarkson, Kara DioGuardi, Cliff Magness; produced by Magness who played most of the instruments; Magness produced and co-wrote the more melodramatically fraught-sounding songs on the first Avril album.
The song I hear echoed in a lot of these tracks: Stevie Nicks' "Edge of Seventeen" (not the rhythm accompaniment, but Stevie's melody and her way of singing it). And of course Lindsay Lohan covers "Edge of Seventeen" on her recent album.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 07:41 (7 years ago) Permalink
Ha! So Frank, you're saying the Morningwood goyl can't sing at all 'cuz Wendy O. sure couldn't even though I liked her. It gets really obvious and desperate on her recordings after Dieter Dirks did Coup d'etat which was the Plasmatics' most metal and probaby their most likely to appeal to teens. Hey, now maybe I'd like Morningwood, although I still don't know if there's someone like Richie Stotts in the band. No one wore a nurse's uniform on the cover.
I bet you could play "Concrete Shoes" for tweeners and a some of them would like it. That song never aged.
― George the Animal Steele, Tuesday, 17 January 2006 07:55 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 16:35 (7 years ago) Permalink
At one point she had points for being beaten by cops -- maybe in Scranton or Detroit -- who took exception to her being onstage with her bosoms covered only by whipped cream.
― George the Animal Steele, Tuesday, 17 January 2006 16:44 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Nick H (Nick H), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 21:05 (7 years ago) Permalink
― edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 21:09 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 14:39 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 14:47 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 14:52 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 14:54 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 14:56 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 15:01 (7 years ago) Permalink
p.s.s.) I still like the Slunt album fine.
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 15:19 (7 years ago) Permalink
I STRONGLY FUCKING OBJECT TO THE IDEAS IMPLIED BY THIS STATEMENT
― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 15:25 (7 years ago) Permalink
Which I really enjoyed. I thought they (Morningwood) were a lot more fun than Gang of Four. I was all rocked out by the time the old fellas came on stage. They were loud, fast, and catchy. I really don't get all the hate at PF and Stylus and so on.
― Hillary Brown (Hillary Brown), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 20:09 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 20 January 2006 16:37 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Saturday, 21 January 2006 17:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Brian O'Neill (NYCNative), Saturday, 21 January 2006 17:50 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Saturday, 21 January 2006 18:01 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 22 January 2006 21:50 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Sunday, 22 January 2006 21:56 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Sunday, 22 January 2006 21:57 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Je4nn3 ƒur¥ (Je4nne Fury), Sunday, 22 January 2006 22:08 (7 years ago) Permalink
I love the album, but I'm not yet sure how much of that is because its a good album, and how much is me being a contrary bugger.
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 22 January 2006 22:26 (7 years ago) Permalink
Shit, I have the Karen Lawrence and 1994 reissue coming in the mail. There amps were bigger and they didn't even stick her on the cover of the first album.
― George the Animal Steele, Monday, 23 January 2006 07:34 (7 years ago) Permalink
― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 23 January 2006 07:55 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Je4nn3 ƒur¥ (Je4nne Fury), Monday, 23 January 2006 15:01 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Brian O'Neill (NYCNative), Monday, 23 January 2006 15:56 (7 years ago) Permalink
That practice hasn't seemed to have made it to the Pasadena chapter. You can do it in Tower at their listening stations, but Morningwood wasn't on any of them.
― George the Animal Steele, Monday, 23 January 2006 16:37 (7 years ago) Permalink
>Samantha Jo, self-titled EP, available from cdbaby.com or samanthajomartin.com: Potential teen-pop country, but for the five songs *only* potential: the voice is there, and two songs ("He's Always There," about her Dad though maybe also about Jesus who knows, and "These Days") are actually about getting up for school despite not being a morning person and checking email and stopping by McDonald's in Dad's truck and doing homework, but the production isn't there, and the songs all seem too slow to pop. But then, BAM! track six, "time for summer," she makes her hope partlow "crazy summer nights" move, or maybe her undertones "here comes the summer" move (no kidding, that's what the chorus sounds like, totally kicking and bubblicious), or her hope partlow plus undertones equals skye sweetnam move, and the talking parts have a rap flow staight out of, I dunno, "we didn't start the fire" by billy joel maybe, and the band rocks, and it makes me want to go back and listen to the rest again to see what I may have missed, and I will, just not right this second.
Looks like the summer song (along with the get up in the morning and do homework and check email one "These Days") were produced by Karl Demer in Minneapolis, whereas the other four tracks were produced by Jim Kimball in Nashville. Odd how they save the great one for the end; maybe they're afraid it would scare away Nashville record labels?
― xhuxk, Monday, 23 January 2006 20:12 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Tuesday, 24 January 2006 16:45 (7 years ago) Permalink
Oops, the waltz is "Heart Over Head Over Heels." "That's the Way" is more like a zigzag (at leat that's what Samantha says: "gotta zig gotta zag gotta travel my jagged road." To Mexico with Romeo, maybe. But she also says she changes direction like a pendulum, and this song doesn't, and nor does it swing like England and a pendulum do.)
I did get Robyn, Frank, thanks! I like it, especially "Konichiwa Bitches," though I doubt I like that anywhere near as much as "Jam On It" or "Attack of the Name Game." Enjoy the rest; not sure yet how much. (CD-Rs are always hard for to motivate myself to listen to!)
― xhuxk, Tuesday, 24 January 2006 19:23 (7 years ago) Permalink
hey Frank, is any of that Ashlee Simpson stuff in the book?
-- JD from CDepot (kicksjoydarknes...), January 23rd, 2006.
In Real Punks, where I tell my story I'm not doing so just for its own sake but because there are resemblances between my story and some other people's, so by analyzing and probing my own predicament I'm analyzing and probing a lot more, too. I make this clear right on the first page of the preface, where I say that my sentences don't just come from my pen, they're a social product; and I ask, therefore, not just what do I gain by producing such sentences, but what does a society gain by producing people like me who write such sentences. So I'm saying that my story is relevant even for people whose experience doesn't match up with mine, since I'm still playing a role in the society of which they're a part. Of course, one can dispute this claim, but whether I'm being "subjective" or not doesn't touch the claim one way or another. Rather, what's at issue is whether or not my experience resembles other people's; and whether the principles I'm illustrating in telling my story can be applied to other people; and whether my social roles relate to the social roles of poeple whose story doesn't resemble mine.
-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), January 23rd, 2006. (Frank Kogan)
No, Ashlee Simpson's not in the book, since I wasn't paying much attention to her until about a year ago (and the book was finished by then, except for the copy editing and printing and stuff). But Ashlee and I have a lot in common, so maybe in a way we speak for each other. The first song on her first album is called "Autobiography," and (if you don't count the prefaces) the first word in the title of the first piece of my book is "Autobiography." So there we are. And no I'm not kidding. I recognize myself in her.
And if that surprises you, then either you don't know me as well as you think, or you don't know her.
You think you know me?
Autobiography
You think you know me Word on the street is that you do You want my history What others tell you won't be true
I walked a thousand miles while everyone was asleep Nobody's really seen my million subtleties
Got stains on my t-shirt and I'm the biggest flirt Right now I'm solo, but that will be changing eventually, oh Got bruises on my heart and sometimes I get dark If you want my auto, want my autobiography Baby, just ask me
I hear you talking Well, it's my turn now I'm talking back Look in my eyes So you can see just where I'm at
I walked a thousand miles to find one river of peace I walked a million more to find out what this shit means
I'm a bad ass girl in this messed up world I'm the sexy girl in this crazy world I'm a simple girl in a complex world A nasty girl, you wanna get with me? You wanna mess with me?
Got stains on my t-shirt and I'm the biggest flirt Right now I'm solo, but that will be changing eventually, oh I laugh more than I cry You piss me off, good-bye Got bruises on my heart and sometimes I get dark If you want my auto, want my autobiography Baby, just ask me
If you want my auto, want my autobiographyBaby, just ask me.
Except the lyrics on the page don't convey how sexy it is when she says it. It's a come-on. The song is like the world's most brilliant personal ad.
And I never in my life wrote a line as great as "I walked a thousand miles while everyone was asleep." I don't know if Jay-Z or Eminem ever did either. Or Dylan. It's like she's saying, "Here I am, stealth genius, and you didn't know." Of course, she's making promises in that song that she probably won't be able to keep, just as Dylan and Jagger and Iggy and Lennon and Johnny and Johansen never lived up to their promise.
(Of course, it's possible that Shanks or DioGuardi wrote that line for her, but I can't find anything in their work with other people that has lyrics that come close to the ones on Ashlee's albums, which is why I surmise that Ashlee's the one in charge of the words. Or maybe she brings something out in those two. But there's not a song of hers where she's not listed as a co-writer. And Ashlee, like me, like everything, is a collaborative product.)
And (speaking of Eminem) I do wish that Ashlee would sing a lyric along the lines of:
When I go out I'm a go out shootingI don't mean when I dieI mean when I go out to the club, stupid
I walked a million more to find out what this shit means
It's actually "And I'll walk a million more to find out what this shit means."
See what I mean about her making promises? I admire her for making them.
Chapter 1The Autobiography of Bob Dylan
When I first listened to Bob Dylan's mid-'60s stuff I thought it was especially honest. It was honest to me because the vocals weren't pretty and didn't sound like singers were supposed to sound, and mistakes were left in. The lyrics to "Visions of Johanna," "Memphis Blues Again," etc. were honest because they were self-destructive. The earlier protest stuff, attacking power, prestige, and everyday commonplaces, fit into a genre of "folk" music; the electric stuff seemed more individual and true. Dylan got to be "honest" not by attacking power, prestige, and everyday commonplaces, but by attacking Dylan.
I thought if you were going to get to see Ashlee's come-on, you should see mine as well, so that's the first paragraph. Ashlee's has a better lilt. I should work on my flirting technique.
I wrote the piece 22 years ago, and it's not about any actual Dylan autobio. "The true autobiography of Bob Dylan isn't an account of his life, or how he got to be that way; but of how it got to be that way, how we got to be that way." In other words, I'm saying we get to complete Dylan's "autobiography" in our own lives and our own stories.
Harold Bloom to thread.
I walked a thousand miles to find one river of peace And I'll walk a million more to find out what this shit means
I like these lines, but I don't think I'd like them as much if I didn't know about her family background (ie., ex-pastor father).-- o. nate (syne_wav...), January 23rd, 2006. (onate)
I should try harder to write something I'm actually going to get paid for, so I need to disappear in midthought.
First, to put some perspective on Ashlee, in one of her songs on I Am Me she says that the fact that her boyfriend is so sensitive ("You finish all my sentences before they begin") means that he must have been hers in a previous life; this is a really boring and unimaginative metaphor, far duller than anything you'll find in the early work of Eminem or Dylan or Johansen et al. Stuff like this is why I won't be altogether shocked if she doesn't follow through on the potential of "Autobiography."
Second, I've revived the Death of Pop thread; not only is it one of the all-time great ILM threads, it's the one that pulled me onto the board in the first place.
-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), January 23rd, 2006. (Frank Kogan) (tracklink)
A couple more things about Ashlee and Dylan: Her second album was released a couple weeks after her 21st birthday. Dylan's first album was released a few days before his 21st birthday. Dylan only puts a couple of his own songs on that album, and their lyrics aren't all that interesting (nothing close to "Autobiography," which came out when Ashlee was 19); and nothing in those lyrics foretells what he's going to unleash a year later in "A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall," going out into that storm he'd called forth on us. But actually, the first Dylan album is my favorite of his four early acoustic records; on that one you can hear him twisting and stretching and distorting the musical forms to make them do what he wants them to. He finds all sorts of different ways to sound intense. In "House of the Rising Sun" and "In My Time of Dying" his voice calls down the storm even though the words don't. Nothing on Ashlee's albums has her imposing her musical will like that, and I'm not sure if there is a way for anyone to drastically twist and distort and reshape her style of music. Which isn't to say that there's nothing special going on in her music or that of people like her. The various reshapings/recombinings are slow and not as ear catching. (And maybe they need to be the subject of another post.) Basically in today's teenpop you're getting admixtures of goth, '80s arena rock, singer-songwriter confessional, various retro dancepop styles, funny novelties, sugar-sweet melodies, hard dark melodies, and blissful r&b, and what's most interesting is the tendency to do them all at once. What's immediately striking about Ashlee is her voice, which sits somewhere between Pink's and Courtney's except that she doesn't sit with it but lets it play around, especially on I Am Me. I Am Me is lighter on its feet than Autobiography; she's found a way to ease up on her bruised intensity without losing it, so she keeps its power while not burying the music under it, which sometimes happens on Autobiography. On the first album she's declaring her identity, on the second she's romping from style to style saying "Look what I can do," so she's the disco slut, then she's the ingenue, then she's the wrathful woman scorned.But you know what? My heart's with the first album. That's the one where more feels at stake, in words and in sound. Stephen Thomas Erlewine at allmusic.com complains about the second album (he liked the first much more): "The problem is this album is presented with utter seriousness, as if her garden-variety changes in emotions and fashion were great revelations instead of being just what happens in adolescence." That's obviously not how I hear it. Is it possible to listen to "L.O.V.E." and "Burning Up," for example, and not get into the goofing around? I guess it is for Erlewine, who's always worth reading anyway. He's right that her changes in emotions and fashion are garden variety. That doesn't mean they can't be revelations. The situations and emotions in Dylan's "Outlaw Blues" and "Visions of Johanna" and "Sooner Or Later" are just as garden variety. What is amazing is what he makes of them. Any 23 year old can say that even though he sometimes looks and acts like a weasel, he still feels like there's a hero somewhere in him (you hope that a 23 year old hasn't yet lost a sense of his heroic potential). But most won't then come up with anything like "Well, I might look like Robert Ford, but I feel just like Jesse James" to call forth the legends of weasels and heroes past, not to mention calling forth the fear that he'll get shot in the back for it (and the subtext that says, "Look, I can make my little blues song go anywhere, try and stop me"). The risk with Ashlee is that she'll put everything into perspective - that she already has - that she'll decide that a weasel is just a weasel and a breakup is just a breakup and they have no resonance with any larger perfidy or heroism. Maybe "Autobiography" and "Shadow" and "I Am Me" and "La La" are just the pop machine making a couple of lucky shots, and maybe this garden-variety celeb (Dylan: "I know there're some people terrified of the bomb. But there are other people terrified to be seen carrying a Modern Screen magazine") won't make much more that's extraordinary out of her ordinariness. If a Sophie or Alanis or Lucinda had come up with a clumsy line like "Does the weight of consequence drag you down until it pulls you under?" (in the title song of I Am Me), I'd mutter, "Go take a walk in the park, or a nap, or something," but in Ashlee it gives me hope. If she's still got pretensions, maybe she'll push herself to make her mind worthy of those pretensions. You know, like she's got a million miles to go before she sleeps. Or not. In the meantime, at least she gets to speak to my inner 19 year old. Important not to lose that guy.
-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), January 24th, 2006. (Frank Kogan)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 19:46 (7 years ago) Permalink
What I mean is that the reshapings and recombinations are unfolding over years in the genre as a whole rather than happening - blam! - all on one record.
But of course there are lots of teenpop songs that are fast and/or ear catching.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 19:59 (7 years ago) Permalink
(their website is creationband.org if you're feeling ambitious.)
― xhuxk, Tuesday, 24 January 2006 23:20 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Tuesday, 24 January 2006 23:24 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Wednesday, 25 January 2006 08:29 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 25 January 2006 14:23 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 25 January 2006 14:25 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 25 January 2006 14:55 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 25 January 2006 15:03 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Wednesday, 25 January 2006 17:17 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Je4nn3 ƒur¥ (Je4nne Fury), Wednesday, 25 January 2006 22:06 (7 years ago) Permalink
― snowballing (snowballing), Thursday, 26 January 2006 14:08 (7 years ago) Permalink
Fefe Dobson, "Stupid Little Love Song"Hilary Duff, "Fly"Skye Sweetnam, "Billy S."Skye Sweetnam, "Tangled Up in Me"Joss Stone, "The Choking Kind"Joss Stone, "Super Duper Love"Avril Lavigne, "My Happy Ending"Avril Lavigne, "Together"The Beatles, "Yellow Submarine"Jojo, "Leave (Get Out)"Alicia Keys, "Karma"Michelle Branch, "Are You Happy Now?"Kelly Clarkson, "Miss Independent"Kelly Clarkson, "The Trouble With Love Is"Kelly Clarkson w/ Tamyra Gray, "You Thought Wrong"Avril Lavigne, "Sk8ter Boi"Avril Lavigne, "Complicated"Loretta Lynn, "Family Tree"Kelly Clarkson, "Behind These Hazel Eyes"Kelly Clarkson, "Breakaway"Kelly Clarkson, "Since U Been Gone"
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Thursday, 26 January 2006 14:44 (7 years ago) Permalink
― snowballing (snowballing), Thursday, 26 January 2006 16:50 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Thursday, 26 January 2006 16:52 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Brian O'Neill (NYCNative), Thursday, 26 January 2006 16:56 (7 years ago) Permalink
(But I'd only claimed she was upthread so that someone could challange me and I could respond with, "Oops, I misunderstood. It turns out she was merely a teenmom." But no one took my bait.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 26 January 2006 18:00 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 26 January 2006 18:24 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Brian O'Neill (NYCNative), Thursday, 26 January 2006 18:26 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Mitya (mitya), Saturday, 28 January 2006 14:31 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 30 January 2006 03:06 (7 years ago) Permalink
I don't really know what in Evanescence other than the opening to "Bring Me to Life" sounds like "Fly," which generally flies to undark regions.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 30 January 2006 06:16 (7 years ago) Permalink
Let the rain fall down and wake my dreamsLet it wash away my sanity'Cause I wanna feel the thunder, I wanna screamLet the rain fall down, I'm coming clean
However, the remix of "Come Clean" on Most Wanted does have a short break that vocodorizes the vocal and moves into a techno pound-pound-pound that could propel you into the dark romantic sublime if that's what you are absolutely set on. It functions similarly to ye olde Yardbirds rave-up or a James Brown gospel vamp. (This, in fact, is what a lot of techno is shooting for.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 30 January 2006 06:29 (7 years ago) Permalink
So, anyway, for the time being (until someone thinks of a better term), I'm thinking of calling "Hear Me" and ilk "secular goth," the word "secular" not just meaning without religion but also without all the mists and shadows and bright-side/dark-side salvation angst. Or, more accurately, the shadows and bright-vs-dark salvation angst is appropriated by pop romance for its s/he-loves-me, s/he-loves-me-not, I-am-free, I-am-trapped stories. Musically the "dark" chord intervals and progressions are less prominent but still there.
(Avril's "Naked," by the way, is another song in which the music isn't quite willing to listen to the lyrics, which are about finally getting someone to love and trust. The sound won't altogether let go of its menace.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 19:22 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 19:27 (7 years ago) Permalink
(Jeez, I'm just losing it as a proofreader.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 19:38 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Thursday, 2 February 2006 22:46 (7 years ago) Permalink
>Lots of catchy tough glammy post-Runaways girl rock songs on the *Rollergirls* soundtrack (apparently there's a TV show, though I never heard of it since I never watch TV except *Everybody Hates Chris* these days) - the obvious Donnas, but also gals I never heard of called Angie Heaton ("Rollerskate," copyright 1988), The Addictions ("Rollergirl," copyright 2004) and the Sweethearts ("Never Give Up," copyright 2004.) Also some good country and disco stuff.
― xhuxk, Friday, 3 February 2006 19:13 (7 years ago) Permalink
(george explains the TV show on the metal thread, if you're interested)
― xhuxk, Friday, 3 February 2006 19:36 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Saturday, 4 February 2006 23:17 (7 years ago) Permalink
And 'Break Me Shake Me' was the underrated gem of that album!
― Abby (abby mcdonald), Sunday, 5 February 2006 03:06 (7 years ago) Permalink
I might buy a Savage Garden comp!
― Zwan (miccio), Sunday, 5 February 2006 03:08 (7 years ago) Permalink
Rolling World Music 2006 Thread
― xhuxk, Sunday, 5 February 2006 18:24 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Sunday, 5 February 2006 18:25 (7 years ago) Permalink
I dunno. I am kind of liking "Animal Song" (especially its Diddley/glitter drum rumble start) and "Love Can Move You" (fast beautiful high-register electro disco building momentum toward rock and at least partially about New York) and maybe "Affirmation" (long list of stuff they say they believe in though they're probably lying about a lot of them) and "Hold Me"s boy-band prettiness and the funk and Jesus references and Calvin Klein Obsession references and train rhythms on some of the other B-sides on this new best of. Seems like a smartly chosen selection, and in general I'd forgotten how weird these guys' words could be. I'll always have a sentimental attachment to the debut, but if Anthony's gotta buy one or the other, I can't swear that the best-of wouldn't be the better long-term investment. (Debut's more *manageable* at 11 songs not 17, though, and it's got their best ones.)
― xhuxk, Sunday, 5 February 2006 20:45 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Sunday, 5 February 2006 20:53 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Sunday, 5 February 2006 20:56 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Sunday, 5 February 2006 20:57 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Sunday, 5 February 2006 20:59 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Sunday, 5 February 2006 21:01 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Sunday, 5 February 2006 21:09 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Sunday, 5 February 2006 21:38 (7 years ago) Permalink
So...
With a name as common as Dan James googling didn't get me anywhere immediately, though I may try again when I have more time. Googling Leah Haywood, however, I got a young Australian singer who hit in 2001 in the Antipodes with a dance pop album, some of which had input from the Cheiron Swedes, some of which was recorded in Los Angeles, little of which sold in the States. I don't know if this is the same woman as the Aly & AJ Haywood, and I never heard the Haywood album. Any info?
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 6 February 2006 05:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
"Truly Madly Deeply" was maybe my second or third least favorite on the first album, though I haven't listened this century. I think I've got a promo cassette of it somewhere. Hayes has an amazing voice.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 6 February 2006 05:33 (7 years ago) Permalink
Last week 'Breaking Free' by Zac Efron & Vanessa Anne Hudgens debuted at number 84 on the Hot 100. This week, when it moved to number 4 it rewrote the history books as no single has ever jumped from such a low number to the top in one week. Also, last week Zac Efron was the first artist to ever have two singles debut simultaneously. This week that record was tied by Ashley Tisdale and Lucas Gabreel with 'What I've Been Looking For' and 'Bop To The Top.'
Billboard Hot 100
4. Zac Efron & Vanessa Anne Hudgens - Breaking Free 23. Zac Efron - Get'cha Head In The Game28. Zac Efron & Vanessa Anne Hudgens - Start Of Something New34. High School Musical Cast - We're All In This Together35. Ashley Tisdale & Lucas Gabreel - What I've Been Looking For43. High School Musical Cast - Stick To The Status Quo62. Ashley Tisdale & Lucas Gabreel - Bop To The Top
― Abby (abby mcdonald), Monday, 6 February 2006 10:22 (7 years ago) Permalink
There's also the input of "C. Michalka," who as far as I can tell is their mother. She (co-)wrote the one about kidnapping that, not surprisingly, hasn't made it to RD yet.
According to Allmusic, it's the same Leah Haywood (worked with Jorgen Elofsson and Andreas Carlsson...interesting). Dan James did random production work in "world" music (again AMG's words, not mine).
― nameom (nameom), Monday, 6 February 2006 16:16 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Monday, 6 February 2006 17:17 (7 years ago) Permalink
I was actually asked to pitch a version of the rollergirls soundtrack. Looks like the one that made it was better than mine in that it had actual rollerskating content.
― Eppy (Eppy), Monday, 6 February 2006 17:28 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 6 February 2006 17:31 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 6 February 2006 17:32 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Monday, 6 February 2006 17:35 (7 years ago) Permalink
http://youtube.com/w/don?v=ISBzaPPURvI&search=miranda%20don
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 6 February 2006 17:36 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 6 February 2006 17:39 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 23:03 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 23:08 (7 years ago) Permalink
[Oops, clicked submit too soon]
nameom, you seem to know your way around allmusic better than I. I tried Dan James and all I got was his name. (They really did make that site difficult to navigate, even if it does contain a lot of info.)
So, has anyone here heard the Leah Haywood album? Tim F.?
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 23:13 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 23:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 23:19 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 00:48 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 00:54 (7 years ago) Permalink
I'm halfway through the album and it's disappointing. Not enough guitar or drums, bleeps too laid-back. Ah well.
― Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:12 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
"Checks & Balances" US Secret Service-ready teenpop, sung by guy who looks like a homeless person. Simple Plan/Yellowcard, if they were protest bands. Amusing, catchy. If he were famous he'd be a demon on Fox or wiretapped, both probably.
http://myspace.com/jaikwillis
― George the Animal Steele, Wednesday, 8 February 2006 21:03 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 21:08 (7 years ago) Permalink
I also noticed that Ashlee's "Boyfriend" sounded way muddier than it does on CD or on Launch Yahoo, which may indicate that Smash Hits have a defective track, or may indicate that you can't trust the fidelity on anything they play.
In any event, here are my notes:
Anastacia "Sick and Tired" - My Anastacia album from a few years back is strong-voiced disco-soul with almost all boring songs. This track, though, is sweet-tuned pop, Anastacia's voice giving the music a bright-rough "character" (not unlike Alanis) without sabotaging the sweetness. Not totally great on first listen, but a nice surprise.
Friday Hill "One Night Alone" - Blah '90s harmonies. [What did I mean by "blah '90s harmonies"? Not sure, since the track didn't stay in my mind. Similar to the harmonies in "Hey Jealousy" if "Hey Jealousy" had been blah instead of nonblah?]
The Cribs "The Modern Way" - Affected Brit sadboy voices: I don't always hate 'em, but I never love 'em.
Sugababes "Ugly" - No, not ugly, just plain, and really disappointing compared to "Freak Like Me" and "Blue" and "Round and Round." My one Sugababes album is unique in being the only one I've heard that goes from great on the first few tracks to not-so-great on the next few and continues on a perfect gradual decline through mediocre, tepid, barely tolerable, and, by the last track, terrible. On that album they get worse the closer they get to "real" r&b. "Ugly" isn't r&b but still lands in "tepid." I don't remember why I think so, actually; something about the harmonies having been through the wash once too often.
[Track order on U.S. alb may not match up with that on the British.]
McFly "Ultraviolet" - Band already denounced on this thread, but I enjoy this. '60sish Yardbirds or Hollies–type harmonies but with no '60s zing, which can be a drawback if you insist on zing in you sing, but likable nonetheless.
Shayne Ward "That's My Goal" - Agh! Gawd! Horrible! I'll go for ten of Robbie Williams to avoid one of these. Amazing that human beings choose to listen to this. It's a ballad, but it's not even "safe" and "gentle" and "comfy" in its zinglessness. It's loud and slow and pelts and pummels you with feeling.
Rachel Stevens "Sweet Dreams of My LA Ex" - Damn, maybe she's as good as the Poptimists say. [But I was so busy tracking down the performer name and song title - the Smash Hits site doesn't show the title of the song being played so I have to do a quick google on the lyrics while a song runs - that I didn't attend to what it sounded like or why I loved it so much. Maybe love it 'cause an ex of mine is from L.A.]
Girls Aloud "Biology" - My first Girls Aloud song! And it's... tuneful... and OK, I suppose. It's a fuller-sounding Robyn-type number, strong beat, but not a melody in the class of "Be Mine!" You think maybe Robyn knows what she's doing in her slightness?
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 9 February 2006 02:07 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 9 February 2006 02:49 (7 years ago) Permalink
"We Think It's Love" - I hated this at the time, it represented everything I disliked about Australian pop at that point, very much in the mould of Bachelor Girl (who were themselves like Savage Garden with all of the manic energy, the oddness and the expansive production removed, replaced by unthreatening mushy guitar backdrops derived from 90s Tina Arena), but even more straightforward and anonymous in feel. Quite memorable chorus though, but maybe it's just that I used to send it up a bit.
"Taking Back What's Mine" - this definitely sounded like Cheiron, a sort of hard juddering plastic pop groove in the vein of N'Sync's "It's Gonna Be Me" or Britney's "Stronger" or (perhaps closest) Britney's "Don't Go Knocking On My Door". But - and maybe this was just my biases at work - it seemed unconvincing, a really awkward chorus and a general tinge of desperation obscuring the pop dynamics. Soon after this local boyband Human Nature also went down this route with similarly lacklustre results.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 9 February 2006 03:13 (7 years ago) Permalink
But otherwise, yes to what you said.
News to me: Lacuna Coil covered Dubstar's plum trip-hoppy confection "Stars." before my hyphen key wears out--trip-hop-secular-teen-goth?
(LC is playing with Rod Zombie. I'm sorely tempted to go, for the Coil, I mean. Has anyone seen them?)
― Ian in Brooklyn, Thursday, 9 February 2006 07:12 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 9 February 2006 07:25 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 9 February 2006 07:37 (7 years ago) Permalink
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Thursday, 9 February 2006 11:19 (7 years ago) Permalink
Yep! Saw them open for Moonspell at late lamented L'Amours in Brooklyn maybe four or so years ago. Four monkish looking guys, banging heads in unsion, with a beautiful Italian girl up front. Much more fun live than Evanescence (whose US audience I still hope Lacuna Coil get, but I'd be surprised if they do.) By the way, Ian, if you like Lacuna Coil, you should really check out the Gathering sometime as well. They're still the genre template as far as I'm concerned. I list a bunch of other such bands upthread, but my latest obsessions in the genre are unsigned bands Persepone's Dream from Pittshburg and Twelfth of Never from Massechusetts, both of whom I discovered via cbbaby and I discuss on the metal thread.
― xhuxk, Thursday, 9 February 2006 19:37 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Thursday, 9 February 2006 19:38 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Thursday, 9 February 2006 19:41 (7 years ago) Permalink
Where did Frank make this assertion? I missed it. (Weren't they a shoegaze band, though?)
― xhuxk, Thursday, 9 February 2006 19:43 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Abby (abby mcdonald), Thursday, 9 February 2006 19:45 (7 years ago) Permalink
Oh and the new Pink single will most likely grow on me. Saw the video for it. Girl power, bitches.
― Je4nne ƒur¥ (Je4nne Fury), Thursday, 9 February 2006 19:47 (7 years ago) Permalink
I had to go to google to figure out this joke (assuming that it was intended as a joke).
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 9 February 2006 19:56 (7 years ago) Permalink
It was to assert her goth cred.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 9 February 2006 20:00 (7 years ago) Permalink
(One of my favorite Xgau reviews ever is his pan of White Zombie's Soul-Crusher: "People consent to fascism because they think fascism will be more fun than this. They could be right. D+")
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 9 February 2006 20:06 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 9 February 2006 20:13 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Je4nn3 Æ’urÂ¥ (Je4nne Fury), Thursday, 9 February 2006 20:41 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Je4nn3 Æ’urÂ¥ (Je4nne Fury), Thursday, 9 February 2006 20:44 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 9 February 2006 21:22 (7 years ago) Permalink
(My guess is that they're better to look at than to hear - aggressively "fun" and "satirical" bands that are "taking the piss" almost always bore me, unless they're the Sex Pistols - and I won't spend precious dialup time downloading until someone else does first, but the bandname is excellent, as are the...)
[Eligibility for this thread is vague association in my mind between what they and Morningwood do. Also, twelve-year-old boys will love them on principle.]
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 10 February 2006 14:21 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 10 February 2006 14:26 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 10 February 2006 16:31 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 10 February 2006 16:36 (7 years ago) Permalink
"I'm the singing voice for the new Barbie movie 'the Barbie Diaries'... totally rad right? Who doesn't love Barbie? C'mon she's my hero!"
(Song's kinds disappointing, though; sorta halfway betw. "Billy S." rehash and Lohan-Duff imitation, which isn't bad in principle except "Billy S" is her worst song and there are better Lohan and Duff tracks and anyway we've already got Lohans and Duffs.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 10 February 2006 17:09 (7 years ago) Permalink
Proper album pushed back to mid July, but word on the street is she's recording some songs with the Matrix (possibly just a rumor). I imagine she didnt have much say in the writing/production of the Barbie tracks, but she wrote and recorded everything on the new one (not sure about the re-recorded version). Billy S her worst song? I don't really hear it in the Barbie track.
― nameom (nameom), Friday, 10 February 2006 20:41 (7 years ago) Permalink
you were right about the kelly clarkson song, but i think that the best proof of its country tendencies is its obsessive seeking of solution wrt domestic melodrama
We're talking about "Because of You" (most of the discussion was on last year's thread), which I'm now trying to make sense of since it's only been on the charts for half a year and gone double platinum as a single (not to mention the 5 million the album has sold). When I first heard it I pretty much dismissed it as an OK adult-contemporary heartbreak song, suitably quiet and sad but not up to the Kelly's previous three singles. Now, having paid attention to the lyrics and thought hard about where its music is coming from and so forth (and finally doing what I can to study the video on the postage-stamp screen that Launch Yahoo gives you in dialup), I'm hearing a completely different song, something of intensity, something that feels loud even with the quiet accompaniment and the controlled singing. And I think it is out of bounds for country. Which is to say that though I can imagine Faith singing in this style she probably wouldn't go for this melody or these words; and though I can imagine LeAnn going for both the melody and these words and totally nailing it in performance, she'd probably decide that it would be bad for her career at this point to release it.
First the words: it isn't just that they're unremittingly despairing, since you could say the same about country classics like "He Stopped Loving Her Today" and "The End of the World." But those don't feel like despair, or they take a different approach to despair, or something. (I've always considered "End of the World" a beautiful, sweet delight.) In general, country's "life falls apart" story belongs to its standard romance cycle: "My heart is broken, now I'm drunk, now I'm going to fuck up again and again," is mined for a lot of rue and a lot of comedy. It's something country is comfortable with. Whereas "the relationship was fundamentally pathological and has left me unfit to live" is not standard for country, even if it's fine on Oprah and adult contemporary and Radio Disney.
Also - and this is interesting - I'd never thought of it as a domestic drama until last night when I started examining the video: house in the suburban night, we're looking in through the window at a couple arguing, then we're in with them in the fight, a child watches glumly, a man upends a table in anger; then a different scene, the little girl shows daddy something she's made, daddy burns it on the stove; a woman leaves, a little girl leaves.
Before studying the video, I'd just naturally assumed this was a romance-and-dysfunction song like most of the ones that precede and follow it on the album, that the narrator was addressing a former boyfriend who'd left her devastated. In fact, that's a perfectly good way to read the song; the "you" is never identified. But if we factor in the video, the narrator has to be the little girl grown up, and she's addressing her parents: "I heard you cry every night in your sleep/I was so young/You should have known better than to lean on me/You never thought of anyone else/You just saw your pain/And now I cry in the middle of the night/For the same damn thing/Because of you/Because of you/Because of you I am afraid/Because of you I never stray too far from the sidewalk/Because of you I learned to play on the safe side so I don't get hurt/Because of you/I try my hardest just to forget everything/Because of you/I don't know how to let anyone else in/Because of you/I'm ashamed of my life because it's empty/Because of you I am afraid/Because of you."
Anyway, I don't know of anything like this in country, though that may not be because it's not there but just because I don't know the genre well enough. Haggard's "Hungry Eyes" suggests something difficult (like, maybe sometime mommas are too hurt to try); maybe there's more. (Subject for further research: Hank Snow.) But "Because of You" is more in the territory of Faster Pussycat's "House of Pain" and Everclear's "Father of Mine" and Pink's "Family Portrait" and Lindsay Lohan's "Confessions of a Broken Heart" and Ashlee Simpson's "Shadow." The country equivalent? Maybe LeAnn Rimes' album track "No Way Out" if you decide she's talking about her relationship to her dad. (But didn't the country audience make clear that they didn't consider that album country?)
I'll continue this thought later, but there's something going on - though subtly - in the sound of "Because of You" that also isn't yet a part of country, and that's goth. [Which I have talked about on this teenpop thread but still haven't worked out.]
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 12 February 2006 14:01 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Anthony Easton, Sunday, 12 February 2006 22:23 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 13 February 2006 03:05 (7 years ago) Permalink
Also, the way the song is, the way it's sung, it was easy for me to not pay much notice to the words the first 20 or so times I heard the song, and for a while after that not to take much more away from them than "Because of you I am afraid." Whereas "Addicted" nails its point in the second you hear it: "It's like you're a drug/It's like you're a demon I can't face down/It's like I'm stuck/It's like I'm running from you all the time/And I know I let/You have all the power/It's like the only company I seek/Is misery all around."
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 13 February 2006 03:49 (7 years ago) Permalink
Departure from her 'heavy' pop-rock sound, and the ballad, towards more blues-pop-based sounds; the initial strong chords get buried under the synth beaths. First impressions say not at all as strong as 'Since U Been Gone' or 'Behind These Hazel Eyes'
The verse is pretty much identical to the verse sections of 'Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen' by La Lohan - cadence, rythm etc. even though her enunciation is very pronounced.
Chorus is very familiar to me, I'm sure someone can identify what it's reminding me of...
Aparently written by Raine Maida of Our Lady Peace
― Abby (abby mcdonald), Monday, 13 February 2006 11:27 (7 years ago) Permalink
(My favorite of the remaining nonsingles is "Hear Me," which has probably the greatest wailing quasi-goth torment on the album: the emotions of "Because of You" and "Addicted" amped up to 10.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 13 February 2006 21:58 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Monday, 13 February 2006 22:40 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 00:22 (7 years ago) Permalink
http://s64.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1Q5R4YXR74O661AVSK830JDQUH
― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 10:25 (7 years ago) Permalink
But for all that, the sound is way more tepid than it ought to be. Or that's how it seems right now, with my not yet having swamped myself in her songs.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 22:41 (7 years ago) Permalink
Anyway, this is the Sugababes covering "I Bet You Look Good On The Dancefloor":
http://www.popjustice.com/downloads/sugamonkeys.mp3
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 22:52 (7 years ago) Permalink
The song, by the way, sounds good but not great. Nice to hear Pink's voice.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 23:02 (7 years ago) Permalink
One of the themes of this thread is that teenpop is hardly just play play play joy joy joy kids kids kids fun fun fun.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 23:09 (7 years ago) Permalink
Tash Bed launched her solo career with a track called "Single", which was a kinda P!nk-esque "I am a WOMAN and will take no shit from you MEN" track with a few catchy bits and an awful video. I always got the feeling that the reason for "These Words" as the second single was so people wouldn't assume she was a lesbian.
I think my problem with calling her teenpop is that she always has been, and always has been marketed as, the dance-wing of Dido.
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 23:13 (7 years ago) Permalink
It's about the Sugababes covering "I Bet You Look Good On The Dancefloor"
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 23:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
So, I sort of want to like this mohawked and punkabillified (where, um, "billy" means "ska" I guess) Horrorpops album *Bring It On!* on Hellcat. Bang Sugar Bang made my top ten last year after all. I guess the idea is making the Dance Hall Crashers or early No Doubt rock as hard as the Distillers or something. And I don't *not* like it; it's not *not* catchy; it all sounds perfectly pleasant, but also nothing on it is reaching out and grabbing me. I'm thinking the problem might mostly be the singer (whose hairdo makes it look like she has devil's horns); her voice is probably too thin, but then again the rhythm section is probably too thin too. But at the same time, I'd say both the vocals and rhythm are COMPETENT. Shrug. Jeanne, have you heard this? I have a feeling I'd trust your Horrorpops judgement implicitly. Also possible that they just don't have songs (where Bang Sugar Bang have NON-STOP songs). And if they DO have songs, which they might, the Horrorpops singer just can't put them over, for whatever reason. -- xhuxk (xedd...), February 15th, 2006.
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 15 February 2006 23:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
Back to the Pink vid, and to repeat something I said over on the rolling country thread: I may not know much about videos these days, but I know from stupid, and whatever you think about Jessica Simpson's cocktease routine in "These Boots Are Made For Walkin'," it's not stupid: Get out of car, swing your hips, prance into rowdy redneck club, get guys to beat themselves up over you, flirt with Willie, sashay out, leaving the joint in shambles. You may not like that version or that vision of girl power, since it's not the one that the enlightened We-who-know-better embrace and doesn't prefigure Our hoped-for social transformation, but it's not stupid.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 23:21 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 23:22 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 23:30 (7 years ago) Permalink
I'm not sure that the U.S. has a Dido equivalent: Sheryl and Alanis would be occupying that social spot, but neither is hitting big at the moment. Maybe the spot is currently occupied by Kelly Clarkson heaving her voice and guts at us. (She seems to be occupying twenty or so spots.) Hooray for us!
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 23:40 (7 years ago) Permalink
I would also like to ask our English friends for thoughts about Mercury Prize nominee KT Tunstall, whose imminent (here) *Eyes to the Telescope* (especially "Suddenly I See" and maybe "Miniature Disasters" and "Heal Over" so far; "Universe & U" kinda stinks) I have been enjoying this weekend in a sort of vaguely jazz-folky post-Laura Nyro/Rickie Lee Jones stewardess-pop (stole that idea from an old Xgau Quarterflash review!) sort of way, which is to say approx. 15 percent country maybe, though I could see her appealing to an '06 US country audience if they heard her. Have no idea how she's heard or thought of in England. If I pay closer attention to the words will I hate her? I am sort of scared of that. -- xhuxk (xedd...), January 1st, 2006.
The KT Tunstall tracks I don't like are probably more Natalie Merchant than to Nyro/Rickie Lee. Second most energetic and therefore likeable song after "Suddenly I See" (which is a real good dance track) might be "Black Horse and the Cherry Tree," with its sort of Diddley beat.
-- xhuxk (xedd...), January 2nd, 2006.
― xhuxk, Thursday, 16 February 2006 14:18 (7 years ago) Permalink
― ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!! (ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!!), Thursday, 16 February 2006 14:27 (7 years ago) Permalink
Joseph, is "Black Horse and Cherry Tree" really about a horse asking KT to marry him, and she says no? That's what she seems to be singing about. Wacky! Though it would be even wackier if she said yes! Also, tracks # 2,3, and 8 have good power-ballad buldups, I have decided. -- xhuxk (xedd...), January 3rd, 2006.
is "Black Horse and Cherry Tree" really about a horse asking KT to marry him, and she says no?Yup: Her black horse is Joni Mitchell's Coyote, I figure. -- Joseph McCombs (jmccomb...), January 4th, 2006.
― xhuxk, Thursday, 16 February 2006 14:34 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Je4nn3 ƒur¥ (Je4nne Fury), Thursday, 16 February 2006 15:53 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Je4nn3 ƒur¥ (Je4nne Fury), Thursday, 16 February 2006 15:56 (7 years ago) Permalink
(Also, Scottish IS British, isn't it?) (Or are you saying that, for Scottish women, being propositioned by a horse is perfectly normal?)
― xhuxk, Thursday, 16 February 2006 16:06 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Je4nn3 ƒur¥ (Je4nne Fury), Thursday, 16 February 2006 16:19 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 16 February 2006 16:55 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Thursday, 16 February 2006 16:59 (7 years ago) Permalink
*some ambiguity, though, as to whether Holly's resurrection is a living one or occurs after death, e.g., she stopped loving dope today, they placed a wreath upon her door, perhaps.
**I assume that Breakaway is basically a collection of songs rather than a concept album, and the song order has as much to do with sound and mood as anything; so the story that gets inadvertently told is just the way the songs happened to fall. But even on random play you get the basic story, the anguish is so prevalent. And being good pop music, there's always another story anyway, 'cause there's usually a dance and an enticing come-on no matter what the words are saying, and there's always a voluptuousness of sound, even in despair. Especially in despair.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 16 February 2006 17:40 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Je4nn3 ƒur¥ (Je4nne Fury), Thursday, 16 February 2006 17:59 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 16 February 2006 18:04 (7 years ago) Permalink
KT Tunstall says she has a big lesbian following after 'accidentally' wearing rainbow braces on the cover of her album.
"I have a massive lesbian following," she told the Mirror. "There's always a gay crowd up the front at my gigs. It's a huge compliment. No one thinks Katie Melua is gay.
"I think it's because I'm a singer-songwriter with a personality - balls and some sassiness."
KT believes she unintentionally sent out mixed messages about her sexuality when she wore a pair of rainbow-patterned braces - a gay symbol - on her record cover.
She says she only realised the implications when a friend in the U.S. sent her a text saying: "The girls in San Francisco are loving your braces."
KT adds: "I was onstage in Dublin when I heard a girl in the crowd shout: 'KT, you're a lesbian!' What the hell do you say to that? I didn't want to upset the lesbians but I didn't want to make out I was one.
"I said: 'You can't say that!' Then I realised that none of the other 1,500 people there had heard her. So I said: 'That girl just called me a lesbian.'
"At the end of the gig, a roadie handed me a note from the woman. It said: 'KT, I was saying 'legend'."
Copyright © 2006 Ananova Ltd
― Je4nn3 ƒur¥ (Je4nne Fury), Thursday, 16 February 2006 18:09 (7 years ago) Permalink
As a side note - Delays - Valentine. What we r reckon to this, then?
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Thursday, 16 February 2006 18:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Je4nn3 ƒur¥ (Je4nne Fury), Thursday, 16 February 2006 18:16 (7 years ago) Permalink
Well, making fun of dumb blondes seems pretty status quo to me. (As opposed to raping and killing your mom, which is Eminem's idea of the forbidden.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 16 February 2006 18:16 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 16 February 2006 18:18 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Je4nn3 ƒur¥ (Je4nne Fury), Thursday, 16 February 2006 18:20 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 16 February 2006 18:27 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 16 February 2006 18:31 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 16 February 2006 18:40 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Je4nn3 ƒur¥ (Je4nne Fury), Thursday, 16 February 2006 18:42 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 16 February 2006 18:56 (7 years ago) Permalink
That's gotta be a pretty relative scale. And Pink sure acts like a *kid* with her license plate reading No. 1 Superstar and her comparing her life to Vietnam because her mom's going to change her last name and her family won't pretend they're all really happy. I didn't hear Try This, though.
― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 16 February 2006 19:02 (7 years ago) Permalink
Fr Kog: links at the bottom of this page should prove more amenable.
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Thursday, 16 February 2006 19:12 (7 years ago) Permalink
How is this sort of thing perceived in Britain? As just more indie poprock, or is the Hi-NRG dance sound recognized?
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 16 February 2006 20:58 (7 years ago) Permalink
(Yeah, I know
Now, I won't pretend that Messina or Pinson are teenpop, but I bet lots o' Brit teens and teeny-weenies go for the Kaiser Chiefs. My impression is that their official category is "indie" (though they're major label).
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 16 February 2006 21:20 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 16 February 2006 21:22 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 16 February 2006 21:26 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 16 February 2006 21:36 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 16 February 2006 22:04 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 16 February 2006 22:07 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 16 February 2006 22:11 (7 years ago) Permalink
Interestingly, I was just listening to the NEW Buzzcocks album *flat pack philosophy* today, and what's clear to me is that Pete Shelley's voice just doesn't hold up; he seemingly can't get it high or nasal or swishy enough to convey his old sweetness and manic excitement anymore. which might not be that big a surprise, except that i actually liked the buzzcocks's *modern* album in 1999 (or at least i did at the time; maybe if i pulled it out now, i wouldn't be so impressed.) band still sounds like they might be fairly tuneful, if not nearly as energetic as they once were. without shelley's voice, though, it just doesn't matter. i gave up after five or six songs.
― xhuxk, Thursday, 16 February 2006 23:24 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 16 February 2006 23:36 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 16 February 2006 23:45 (7 years ago) Permalink
I've got to get this message to the pressThat every day I love you less and less
It was refreshing after all that country be-a-tough-babe/this-is what-makes-a-man bullshit, and all that earnest romance.
Well, he's basically using a rock beat on this album, in keeping with contemporary teenpop, though he's not particularly trying to rock out. But that I heard Justin and Darren when I heard him might indicate that MJ-type soul could work.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 16 February 2006 23:51 (7 years ago) Permalink
― anthony easton (anthony), Friday, 17 February 2006 00:30 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Friday, 17 February 2006 14:42 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Friday, 17 February 2006 14:44 (7 years ago) Permalink
actually this might be true but I meant I'm not sure what the MOVIE'S about (though I'm guessing it might concern going to the beach. Matter of fact, one of the 3 girls on the CD cover is a mermaid.) xp
― xhuxk, Friday, 17 February 2006 14:45 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Friday, 17 February 2006 14:49 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Abby (abby mcdonald), Friday, 17 February 2006 16:44 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Friday, 17 February 2006 16:56 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Friday, 17 February 2006 16:58 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Saturday, 18 February 2006 06:48 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Saturday, 18 February 2006 06:51 (7 years ago) Permalink
Smoosh - "Rad": It is a well-known scientific FACT that a key ingredient of Great Pop is YOUTH. Smoosh back this up nicely. They are sisters Asya, 13, and Chloe, 11, and on 'Rad' Asya raps charmingly about how you should be a little happier and if you want to play then GO PLAY over insanely melodic electric piano. I am sure all Poptimists will take Smoosh to their hearts with no further prompting, but should you need further convincing here are some TEAM ANECDOTES: 1) While recording their album, relations between Chloe and the band's producer got so fractious that she had to be locked out of the studio, whereupon she scrawled "DO U WANT A FIGHT!" on a piece of paper and pressed it to the window; 2) They were once told by an over-excitable interviewer that they could be "as big as Led Zeppelin", to which they replied, "Is that big?"; 3) When I went to see them at Cargo a couple of months ago I got to the venue early to find them playing tag amidst all the bemused punters. CUTE!
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Saturday, 18 February 2006 07:08 (7 years ago) Permalink
actually her Aquamarine song "Connected" is not bad, and not really all that sensitive, and even slightly boppy, though I'm not sure what I think of its self-help lyrics about soulmates.
My fave song so far (and by far) on the *High School Musical* OST is "Bop To The Top," which reminds me of early Conga/Dr Beat-era Miami Sound Machine almost. (Or really, I guess, of MSM a little later, when Gloria was doing that 1-2-3 song.) More on this soon I'm sure.
― xhuxk, Saturday, 18 February 2006 14:32 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Saturday, 18 February 2006 14:55 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 19 February 2006 04:48 (7 years ago) Permalink
Chip Taylor and Carrie Rodriguez Red Dog Tracks, Brad Paisley Time Well Wasted, Sara Evans Real Fine Place, Aly & AJ Into the Rush. I'm looking forward to listening to them - I'm especially eager to hear Red Dog Tracks, since I've never heard Uncle Chip's actual singing voice.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 19 February 2006 05:00 (7 years ago) Permalink
My favorite Mariah is the early Mariah, "Somebody," "Can't Let Go," "Make It Happen" era. After that she helped pioneer a bury-your-voice-in-the-r&b-mix style, which I'm not against in principle (is one of the things that helped her also to pioneer the thug'n'hug mating of hip-hop guys and r&b chicks, which I usually don't love but have nothing against in principle), but it knocked down her exuberance, and "We Belong Together" is far more conversational and less melismatic in its approach - again, I've got nothing against the principle, but all of these things toned down her natural exuberance, which may be the conditions of her staying acceptable to r&b but is too bad.
Anyway, I just heard "Stay the Night," one of the album tracks from Mimi. Reminds me a LOT of Teena Marie, which from me is a high compliment: the rhythm has more or a '00s push and counterfunk than Teena's had back in her prime, and Mariah works the voice well against the rhythm. I'll wait to say more when I listen more. It isn't in what's necessarily my favorite of Teena's various styles - kind of jazzy, Riperton fly the breeze - but the voice does move.
("We Belong Together" isn't bad; it never really sticks for me, though, despite its having living atop the charts for months and months in mid '05.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 19 February 2006 13:56 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 19 February 2006 13:58 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 19 February 2006 14:01 (7 years ago) Permalink
--at least one song from the *high school musical* OST, "breaking free", sounds as much like a pop-country power ballad to me as a teen-pop power ballad (isn't that one of the big download hits? i think so, since it's one of two tracks with a "karaoke instrumental" version at the end of the CD. and come to think of it, the instumental - which i I kind of like; when I first heard it, it was in my random CD changer, and I guessed it was by either tea leaf green or the tossers! -- sounds somewhat rural or pastoral or whatever as well.) the non-karaoke rendition is said to be sung by leading man troy + leading lady gabrielle.
― xhuxk, Monday, 20 February 2006 14:58 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Je4nn3 ƒur¥ (Je4nne Fury), Monday, 20 February 2006 15:26 (7 years ago) Permalink
despite tracks i mentioned above, i should note that i'm pretty sure *high school musical* isn't a very good CD. most of it, i'd classify as "lame show tunes." i'm guessing the music is closer to *rent* (which i've never heard) than to *fame* or *grease.* and i'd rather hear almost any Radio Disney star than the singers on this thing. A couple okay tracks, though.
― xhuxk, Monday, 20 February 2006 16:22 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Monday, 20 February 2006 16:48 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Monday, 20 February 2006 17:48 (7 years ago) Permalink
Might be why B5's version of "Getcha Head in the Game" seems to be more popular than Troy and whoever's version (as well as "Breaking Free") on Radio Disney. I thought this might be an interesting phenomenon in the Disney to Top 40 tradition, but it seems to be a downloading fluke.
― nameom (nameom), Monday, 20 February 2006 18:02 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Monday, 20 February 2006 18:24 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Monday, 20 February 2006 18:31 (7 years ago) Permalink
Whether that fits on this thread or not I don't really know, but I just thought I'd let you know. 'Valentine' is one of the best things on the album, but its ambition is definitely matched elsewhere.
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 20 February 2006 18:43 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 20 February 2006 20:52 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Je4nn3 ƒur¥ (Je4nne Fury), Monday, 20 February 2006 23:13 (7 years ago) Permalink
(I don't suppose this is the thread to discuss it, but I can't fathom why Reynolds would say, "Because its internal socio-cultural dynamics force it to keep on generating freshness, black music has never really needed to borrow from white music." History of 20th century to thread? (But not this thread.))
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 20 February 2006 23:42 (7 years ago) Permalink
By the way, the rush I'm getting from Aly & AJ's "Rush" beats the rush I'm getting from "4Ever" - in fact, probably beats the rush I get from "Everywhere" and "Complicated," its obvious progenitors. Its not getting airplay beyond Radio Disney, however. Can we all get together and do something about that?
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 20 February 2006 23:52 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 00:00 (7 years ago) Permalink
I don't understand why her album isn't getting a U.S. release. What is there to lose? Maybe we can do something about this, too.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 00:35 (7 years ago) Permalink
― m coleman (lovebug starski), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 00:38 (7 years ago) Permalink
Shooting for, that is. (I don't think of Simon Reynolds and Shooter Jennings as being all that similar. Shooter, by the way, is conducting a conversation between country and L.A. sleaze metal.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 00:39 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 00:46 (7 years ago) Permalink
Marion Raven acoustic tracks
Clip from Break You video
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 00:53 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 01:01 (7 years ago) Permalink
Frank, have you listened to all of Into the Rush yet? "Rush" was good enough to kind of blind me to a few other songs (which for the most part sound more like "Rush" than "No One" or the covers) with some strange, even frightening content. Not in the vein of previously discussed "Because of You" or "Confessions of a Broken Heart," either...there's something even darker happening in a few Aly & AJ tracks (particularly "I Am One of Them" and to a lesser extent "Sticks and Stones").
― nameom (nameom), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 01:40 (7 years ago) Permalink
apparently he never heard kanye west! (a minor 2005 footnote, but still.)
― xhuxk, Tuesday, 21 February 2006 01:59 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Tuesday, 21 February 2006 02:06 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Tuesday, 21 February 2006 02:08 (7 years ago) Permalink
"Shooter" by Lil Wayne may well be Southern hip-hop conversing with Shooter Jennings too.
― xhuxk, Tuesday, 21 February 2006 02:11 (7 years ago) Permalink
Random musings: There seems to be a lot more rock in contemporary pop songs (Duff, Lohan, Clarkson kinda) than there was just a few years back when R&B and dancey hip-hop seemed to be the favored angle (Britney, Xtina). Then there was the teen version of songstresses (Michelle Branch, Vanessa Carlton). I dunno, pop sounds *younger* now than it did. Granted, I don't think the Duffs/Lohans have the voices to carry R&B songs, so that could explain it.
― Je4nn3 ƒur¥ (Je4nne Fury), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 02:12 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Tuesday, 21 February 2006 02:21 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Tuesday, 21 February 2006 02:25 (7 years ago) Permalink
I mean, I suppose THIS is Simon's real point. But honestly, anybody who believes indie rock (and maybe grime or crunk) is the cutting edge of innovation anymore (anybody who believes indie rock has been the cutting edge of white popular music in. like, the past 20 years) hasn't been paying attention. (And that said, I'm not at all sure that indie-rock *hasn't* somehow miscegenated with grime or crunk. And I'm even less sure that I'd give a shit about it if it did.) (And what do "cutting edge"s have to do with good music anyway?)
― xhuxk, Tuesday, 21 February 2006 02:38 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 03:03 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 03:15 (7 years ago) Permalink
I like "End of Me" more, despite the thing being more pretentious. (Despite?) The music to that one sounds like a doomy version of "Theme from a Summer Place" (at least in the part where she sings, "If I'm caught in the middle I know it will be the end of me"); her voice climbs cliffs and takes sharp turns.
By the way, she lives in NYC these days, so maybe you could drop by and ask her what's up with the U.S. release. (I suspect the record company just doesn't think she'll sell big here. M2M really didn't get much play in the U.S. after "Don't Say You Love Me.")
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 03:35 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 03:37 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 04:12 (7 years ago) Permalink
Marit was the self-effacing one, would sometimes trade leads with Marion but often seemed willing to stay back and do the harmonies. Her voice was matter-of-fact whereas Marion's was emotive. I really didn't know what to expect. In the four years since The Big Room, in occasional postings on her Website, she'd mention her admiration for Paul Simon, Conor Oboerst. This doesn't sound like either of them. The rest of the album may still be a surprise. I like it, that I don't know what to expect.
I hate to say it, but she does sound refreshingly grown-up (she's probably 20 or 21) compared to all the angst-kids of approximately her age we've been talking about on this thread. This doesn't necessarily make her better. Or even more genuinely grown-up. But it's attractive, playful.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 05:13 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 05:19 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 05:48 (7 years ago) Permalink
I think Simon is talking about music made within the UK in his comments quoted upthread, rather than simply that which charts there.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 06:23 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Ian in Brooklyn, Tuesday, 21 February 2006 07:16 (7 years ago) Permalink
Probably true, though I swear I read an interview in a metal zine once where Cristina Scabbia said one of her favorite bands is Destiny's Child! Not sure if or how that ever manifested in her music, however. And it's possible that certain of Amy's, Annete's, and Cristina's goth forebears (Kate Bush? Siouxsie?) mixed up soul and goth in ways that they don't. If you go back to the '80s, certain gothy singers definitely did, I think: Jeanne Mas, Mylene Farmer, Laura Branigan, maybe Pat Benatar. And beyond women, the obvious king of soul-goth pop will always be Michael Jackson! But where is Michael Freedberg when we need him? This is totally his territory. Yet I still agree Kelly might be doing something new.
― xhuxk, Tuesday, 21 February 2006 12:32 (7 years ago) Permalink
Psychedelic meaning, like, the Yardbirds? Uriah Heep? "Manic Depression" by Jimi Hendrix? Or what? (I probably agree too though.)
― xhuxk, Tuesday, 21 February 2006 14:26 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Tuesday, 21 February 2006 14:28 (7 years ago) Permalink
Am I misreading the piece in thinking that there's a tilt that says that the Kaiser Chiefs and Coldplay and Arctic Monkeys are amiss for not taking in crunk and grime, whereas crunk and grime aren't amiss for overlooking Kaisers et al.? (Not that such a tilt - if it's there - is necessarily wrong, but it shouldn't be a habitual tilt.)
Anyway, one of my long-time (over)generalizations is that most r&b-soul-hip-hop is still pre–Rolling Stones, and most rock is pre–James Brown (which implies something that probably isn't true: that somehow Brown and Stones represent everybody's future). Anyway, by "pre" I don't mean that James Brown's children don't draw fruitfully on the work of the Rolling Stones children and vice versa, but that they draw on it without understanding it (or the understanding is in the mind but not in the heart or the social practice). So they use what they draw on for their own purposes. But then, while I do think that most subsequent r&b etc. does understand James Brown, I wouldn't say that most rock gets the Rolling Stones either. (And maybe it doesn't have to, but anyway...). And "most" doesn't mean "all," of course.
Maybe the Rolling Stones don't get the Rolling Stones either.
Anyway, thinking about the white-black convo means thinking about the miscommunication and noncommunication.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 16:27 (7 years ago) Permalink
You have work to do offline. Please logout.
A friend
Last night I heard "Our Truth," the new Lacuna Coil single, and I was disappointed. Starts with eerie plinks, ominous bass, a distant female wail, none of which is surprising and all of which I'm used to (whether the genre be goth or crunk), then metal guitar and the woman enters the near frame singing but not wailing. All of which is fine, except they've crunched me and moved me far more in the past. You basically have to wait to 1:10 for the harmonies to kick in, and that's where I start liking it: a jump from gloom to glorious consonance, which is usually what I like most about Lacuna Coil and the Gathering anyway. Which is to say, their tracks rarely hit me overall (the way the great Evanescence singles do), but the interplay between gloom and pretty harmonies provides a lot of good moments.
Video's up on Launch Yahoo, if you're interested.
Also heard Reggaeton Ninos' version of "Oye Mi Canto": "The remix with kids on it!" Great song anyway, and I love the kid chants.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 16:37 (7 years ago) Permalink
Also - RBD. Latino Electro-pop of vaguely indeterminate origin that's all over the South American charts like a quite good rash. Any ideas?
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 16:59 (7 years ago) Permalink
She had a second album somewhere along the way that came and went without my even learning of its existence.
Mr. Swygart, move your eyes up a few posts for info in regard to Marit Larsen.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 17:03 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 17:07 (7 years ago) Permalink
The Larsen's pretty quality, yes. Very much liking the handclaps.
In return You Hurt Me is the new Hooverphonic single, and the video can be found on this page. Like Marit, this may not be teenpop, but it's damn close - closer than, say, Goldfrapp, for instance. It has a piano bit.
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 17:35 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 22:32 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 22:35 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 22:36 (7 years ago) Permalink
(Chuck, I worry about getting scooped by talking too much about unpublished writings on the internet, but yeah, there's Yardbirds in there in my psych/goth thing and tons of other stuff!)
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 22:51 (7 years ago) Permalink
They're no El Presidente, admittedly, but El Presidente are only for a certain kind of teen.
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 22:52 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 22 February 2006 20:33 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 22 February 2006 20:39 (7 years ago) Permalink
(sorry, my computer doesn't have long or short vowel marks.)
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 22 February 2006 20:47 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Abby (abby mcdonald), Wednesday, 22 February 2006 21:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
"They opened a string of high-profile dates for Ryan Cabrera."
Shouldn't it be "They had a string of high-profile dates WITH Ryan Cabrera"?
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 23 February 2006 01:02 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 23 February 2006 01:22 (7 years ago) Permalink
BTW for those who might be interested: chart is here, complete with soundclips (5 seconds on mouseover, 30 seconds when clicking og loudspeaker symbol).
― The Vintner's Lipogram (OleM), Thursday, 23 February 2006 17:34 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 23 February 2006 18:26 (7 years ago) Permalink
― nameom (nameom), Thursday, 23 February 2006 22:40 (7 years ago) Permalink
Fr Kog - I will give ver Raven a spin a little later on.
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Friday, 24 February 2006 13:09 (7 years ago) Permalink
Best Marion Raven songs: "Crawl" and "End Of Me".
― edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 02:26 (7 years ago) Permalink
The Marie Sernholt single is tidy too.
― edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 02:27 (7 years ago) Permalink
She's got a very different look on the cover of Elle, which I can't describe, not because it's indescribable but because I was never taught how to analyze fashion. Her eyes are made up to look wide-eyed but not quite innocent. Her clothes if I recall correctly are a half-glitz, made to look snazzy but expendable (or at least removable). Not blatant like glam or freestyle, but akin to their spirit. There's a definite restlessness to her various looks.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 2 March 2006 06:54 (7 years ago) Permalink
― anthony easton (anthony), Thursday, 2 March 2006 06:56 (7 years ago) Permalink
Cosmo: You and Jessica have such distinct styles. How would you describe yours?
Ashlee: It's a little more feminine now but still has an edge. I love vintage, and I like things to be a little off. I wear things Ashlee-style. I don't care if I'm on the worst dressed [list] because it means I tried something.
Anthony, what is "ovalour"?
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 2 March 2006 07:08 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Brian O'Neill (NYCNative), Thursday, 2 March 2006 07:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
Je4nn3, I wish you would elaborate on this. (I have an idea of why one might think it's younger, though "younger" might not be the right word. But I'd like to hear your ideas.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 2 March 2006 07:26 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 5 March 2006 03:28 (7 years ago) Permalink
Amy Lee, Annette van Giersbergen and Cristina Scabbia will hit those melodramatic high notes--and that girl from Leaves Eyes who duets brilliantly on the new Cradle of Filth song--but systematic emoting negates the required goth, er, deadpan aesthetic, doncha think?
― Ian in Brooklyn, Sunday, 5 March 2006 06:41 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Ian in Brooklyn, Sunday, 5 March 2006 06:56 (7 years ago) Permalink
from rolling world music thread:
>Lucas Prata *Let's Get It On* on my probably favorite dance label Ultra is excellent outer borough guido-disco (see also: Razor & Guido a few years ago) from I think Queens since that's what it says on his t-shirt in some photos on the inner sleeve unlike the front cover where he's wearing a superhero costume, plus I bet he weighs 200 pounds easy, probably more. Also he covers "The Ma Ya Hi Song" as he calls it by Romanians (I think) O-Zone which I voted for as one of my top ten singles last year. Plus his ballads split the difference between boy band pop & early '80s power ballad rock. Even more interestingly, tracks like "Never Be Alone" sound quite Italo-disco, which makes me wonder what the connection is between Italo-disco from Italy and guido-disco from Queens and Brooklyn Hmmm....I doubt HE (or his fans) call(s) his music "guido disco," of course. I'm not sure *what* they would call it -- I'm guessing just the annoyingly all-purpose "club music," maybe? If anybody knows, I'm interested. Also he defintely connects to the tradition of "tough-looking New Yawk Italian American guys singing in angelic falsettos," a tradition that harks back at least to Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons. (How often did Dion falsetto? Or Frank Sinatra? Assuming Hoboken counts as an outer borough. Um...Vito and the Salutations??)-- xhuxk (xedd...), March 5th, 2006.
― xhuxk, Sunday, 5 March 2006 18:41 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Sunday, 5 March 2006 18:42 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Sunday, 5 March 2006 19:03 (7 years ago) Permalink
Aaron Carter!
xp: (Also I guess I'm assuming Prata IS Italian American, which i suppose it's possible he might not be. But most of the evidence does seem to lean in that direction, as far as I can tell.)
Watched *High School Muiscal* last night (I was sent a DVD.) "Stick to the Status Quo" is definitely more fun on the DVD than on the CD. Most likeable charcter is the girl who plays piano, partially since she dresses thrift-store wacky-but-snazzy like my daughter Coco (whose fashion sense was I think influenced *very* early on by the title character of the TV show *Blossom*) , though it annoys me when they make said piano girl "let her hair down" librarian-coming-out-of-her-shell-style at the end. Most hilarious and over-the-top character is Sharpay, which is interesting since at first you expect her to be a *Heathers*-type snob. Dullest characters, naturally, are leading man and lady Troy and Gabrielle, just because they're so goody-goody innocuous. (The Gabrielle character's only previous singing experience, we learn, was, of course, in her church choir: bad omen from a culture war perspective at the start, but the rest of the movie is gay enough to make up for it.)
― xhuxk, Sunday, 5 March 2006 20:35 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Sunday, 5 March 2006 21:11 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 5 March 2006 21:12 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Sunday, 5 March 2006 21:23 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 6 March 2006 00:59 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 6 March 2006 01:46 (7 years ago) Permalink
I mean, I look at the goth label from a traditionalist POV, in the sense that, in order to be 'goth', one also needs to be willfully or intrinsically perverse in some way--whether that manifests as lyric content, artifice or just plain weirdness doesn't much matter. Just the impulse alone is goth.
So in that light, Amy Lee saying her stuff is 'dark' is accurate and maybe even self aware. And Kelly C, no matter how much she may mess up her life, will never be gothic--she'll always be a lively suspect enduring a bad streak. It's a big, crucial difference, sort of like how, in an opposing way, Nick Cave could sincerely sing Bar Mitzvah songs for his glow-cheeked daughter and still be gothic.
I can't get a read on Anneke--I love the heck out of The Gathering, but I--perhaps assuming--her difficulty with English that results in the lyrics I've listened to as sort of pouty, or conventionally melancholic--which would put them, sensibility-wise, in the same camp with Lee (but with way more interesting music.)
The fact that Scabbia is *named* Scabbia and/or didn't change it to something else renders her sensibility goth from the git-go. Plus, she has that deadpan, enjoying-the-wrechedness verse approach and overwrought chorus delivery that pins her to traditional gothic.
Point is, I don't think it has so much to do with technique or even chosen delivery style, as much as a sense of something at the core being fundamentally askew and the artist being either in conversation with that aberration, enjoying or getting lost in it.
― Ian in Brooklyn, Monday, 6 March 2006 05:56 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Ian in Brooklyn, Monday, 6 March 2006 05:59 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 6 March 2006 06:16 (7 years ago) Permalink
My point isn't that "Heart of Stone" is better than "It Won't Take Long" (though it is), but that it's different in kind, even if you could summarize the lyrics in the same way: "lovesick man pretends he's indifferent" (which by the way is a songwriting staple, in country even more than in pop). And the difference is that in sound and feel and in its mind as well as its guts, "Heart of Stone" is a young man's song. So it's not just about a man faking his feelings, pretending he's indifferent. It's about Pretence, about Fakery, about False Identity and Who The Fuck Am I? And on from there through "Under My Thumb" and "Back Street Girl" and "Lady Jane" and "High and Dry" and "My Obsession" and "Street Fighting Man" and "Brown Sugar." (And after that he wasn't a young man anymore, and to my ears didn't find a middle adulthood nearly as interesting as his youth. Which doesn't mean there's nothing new of interest. For instance, "It Won't Take Long" has the lines "Time it passes quickly" and "Life is short," implying that what won't take long is life (and maybe it's life that'll be all over by Christmas, and only then will he be over her; or maybe I'm making that up). I'd say I like about half the tracks on A Bigger Bang, which is more than I'd anticipated liking, and there are two or three I like quite a lot.)
So, my point for this teenpop thread? Well once back in the early '60s Andrew Loog Oldham, manager of the Rolling Stones, a rock band that played mostly covers of American soul, rock 'n' roll, and blues songs but which had burgeoning teen and youth appeal in Britain, basically ordered the lead singer and lead guitarist to start writing songs themselves, his reasoning being that, because of who Jagger and Richards were, they'd be able to write songs that the youngsters would care about way more than those youngsters would care about someone else's soul and blues.
Interesting (and extremely well-written) CG review by Christgau back in 2001 starts like this:
Michelle Branch The Spirit Room [Maverick, 2001]Only in a biz discombobulated by teenpop could an 18-year-old with an acoustic guitar be plausibly promoted as "the anti-Britney." Don't you remember? Writing Your Own Songs means zip, zilch, nada. By now, literally millions of human beings WTOS, and while Branch may be among the top 5000 (and may not), note that her hit, like most of the front-loaded material, was co-composed by her producer.
Christgau's right, of course, that in itself writing your own songs means zip, zilch, nada. But if you're in a different social category from the people who would be writing them otherwise (e.g., you're youth and they're not), and if this difference affects the character of the songs you write - or co-write - then writing your own songs makes a huge difference. Doesn't necessarily make your songs better, but it means they're different songs.
As of right now, I can't think of any major American teenpop performers except Crazy Frog and B5 who don't co-write at least some of their songs. (JoJo only did three on her album, but Ashlee, Lindsay, Kelly, Avril, Aly & AJ, and Jesse all do, as do Click Five, if they count as major, and of course Pink does, if she still counts as teenpop (not sure how much Kelly does, either, but she gets major teen airplay).)
*A piece of celery, perhaps
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 6 March 2006 06:24 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 6 March 2006 06:29 (7 years ago) Permalink
Lyrics have seldom meant much to me aside from indicators of intent and essense, which is what everything is about for me. I love The Cardigans, I mean, a LOT, but the it was only after listening to their last two, highly dour CDs that I noted how glum the lyrics were. And sometimes even clever.
But all I need of the lyrics of "I Need Some Fine Wine (and you need to be nicer)" is right there. The intent--that I gotta get fucked up not to notice what a prick you are and even then, I'm gonna domme your ass because of my own self-loathing--it's in that sentence, the music, the delivery, the inter-related associations between all of it. Now that's elegant!
(Unsurprisingly, I love Cocteau Twins because the infinity mood is never ruined by language making sense, and RAMMS+EIN because I don't speak German and so all the terror, ruin, sorrow and sex remain intact.)
I'm not sure what 'teenpop' means at this juncture. I never much bought into authenticity, what with a goodly portion of my life spent making or watching other musicians systemacticcally de-authenticize their work via record production. It seems that what teenpop implies--aside from the age stuff which is either irrelevant to me or a disconnect interest-wise--is the idea of an intended artiface--a perfect form of plastic 'real' punks are too blindered by possibly impossible notions of authenticity to get.
Mainly, I enjoy proudly 'artificial' pop with high voices. Older Sparks, Kelly, Amy Lee or Low (when they're not trying to prove their realness by being noisy), don't much matter to me. Except what's branded 'teenpop' lately seems more in sync with what I like. Like, if ELO had a girl singer, and were ProTooled, I'd be way happy.
― Ian in Brooklyn, Monday, 6 March 2006 06:57 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Ian in Brooklyn, Monday, 6 March 2006 07:09 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Abby (abby mcdonald), Monday, 6 March 2006 08:31 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 6 March 2006 11:03 (7 years ago) Permalink
OMG!
Ian
― Ian in Brooklyn, Monday, 6 March 2006 23:53 (7 years ago) Permalink
Of course then there were the Animals, who managed to connect well to the young'uns in a Stones-y way and whose best material (at least early on) was a cover song and three songs composed by Brill-Colgem types (who probably weren't much older than the Animals themselves, and who also provided music for the Monkees that even younger young-uns liked, but who probably weren't all that in touch with the Animals primary audience; that's a guess).
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 05:05 (7 years ago) Permalink
Got the new Gathering album; supposedly a return to "rock," though I don't think I buy that. I'm hearing a lot of Kate Bush and Cocteau Twins in it myself. BETTER than most Kate Bush or Cocteau Twins, probably, and the guitars do pick up now and then, but this is still more new age than metal in my book. Not sure how much I like it yet.
― xhuxk, Tuesday, 7 March 2006 14:19 (7 years ago) Permalink
people always forget with pink that she was punk even when she was in r&b like say with "you make me sick" or "split personality" and she didn't write her songs then at all.
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 15:24 (7 years ago) Permalink
http://www.villagevoice.com/music/0111,eddy,23025,22.html
I finally heard "Stupid Girls" last week, by the way. I give it, I dunno, maybe a 6.5 (on the Radio On scale).
― xhuxk, Tuesday, 7 March 2006 15:33 (7 years ago) Permalink
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 15:49 (7 years ago) Permalink
launch.yahoo.com streams the "Shadow" video (and Launch has high-quality sound, unlike some of the other video streamers), though they may block people without North American IP addresses from seeing it. (Nowadays they block me from watching the vids on their Brit-Irish site, though they didn't used to.) You have to register on Yahoo, but that's a cinch.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 16:25 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 16:26 (7 years ago) Permalink
i miss dream.
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 16:47 (7 years ago) Permalink
Sterling, I'm not sure I can guess what the difference would be if Ronnie Spector and Darlene Love and the Weiss sisters (Shangri-Las) had been co-writing the songs. Young Smokey Robinson was writing and producing his own stuff over at Motown (and writing/producing for the Temptations as well); come to think of it, maybe his stuff has more identity angst than the Holland-Dozier-Holland and Barrett-Whitfield material. (That's a comment off the top of my head without my pondering the matter.)
I don't think Spector, Greenwich, Barry, Goffin, King, Pitney (he wrote "He's A Rebel"), Mann, and Weil were that much older than the performers. There was a social difference between the girl groups and the young Brits, in that the Beatles, Stones, Animals, Kinks, and Who were art-school punks (even the ones who weren't art school per se were of that type and milieu, and there were bohemian music scenes to support them). And so there was an implied social defiance in something like the Who's "Substitute" that you're not going to get in Smokey's "Tears of a Clown." In "Substitute," it's not just the narrator and his girl who are putting up a front; everything around them is implicated too, it's all a front, life is a front, the Universe is a fake. Just as Jagger singing "Hurt my eyes open, that's no lie" has him seeing through a lot more than the fact that some girl was two-timing a guy. And the young Brits, being bohos, didn't necessarily want to reconcile with what they were seeing through - or, to be more accurate, they were ambivalent about how much they wanted to reconcile and how much they wanted to push away. Which I suppose any kid is, but the Brit kids dance of push vs. reconcile was a social drama - a new bohemia under construction - while my bet is that if Ronnie et al. over in America had been in as co-writers, the pushing-away vs. reconciliation would have been a strictly personal or familial drama, as it was in the songs written for them, with some class and gender thrown in but in ways that had already been mapped out: good girls in love with bad boys and all, but not the impetus to create a new Strange or a sense that alienation can be an achievement as well as a disaster.
So, hmmm, I'm claiming a significance in the fact that modern-day teenpoppers are in on the songwriting, and there's an obvious difference between teenpop now and teenpop in the non-self-writing days of 1999, but I'm speculating that in the Brill-building days there wouldn't have been much of a difference. Hmmm. And today's teenpop girls are sticking with the personal and family dramas or push vs. reconcile, yet still they do seem part of the legacy of Stones, Dylan, et al. (and Joni and Alanis), and it's no coincidence that the change in lyrics is accompanied by more and louder guitars.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 17:19 (7 years ago) Permalink
That was a cover song, of course (the Valentinos' version goes "Hurt my nose open"); but given a different meaning with the Stones delivery in the Stones world.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 17:23 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 17:32 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 17:39 (7 years ago) Permalink
she couldn't have written "not a girl" on the other hand or "one more time." though she did write "dear diary" (though she didn't have to, and it is bad anyway, but she was younger then).
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 17:49 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 17:56 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 17:57 (7 years ago) Permalink
anticipating feels the opposite like it's about one specific person trying to be another specific person who's really a universal archetype.
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 17:58 (7 years ago) Permalink
I really don't want to overdraw my point. Teens can write adult-like pop songs, and I'll bet if someone asked me to write a teen-angst song I could do it convincingly. And also, individual personalities can be playing a role here: there aren't actually that many people involved in writing and producing the teenpop hits, and it might be a peculiarity of Martin and Rami that they weren't writing adolescent family drama songs back in 1999; whereas maybe Shanks and DioGuardi were saying to themselves five years ago, "We've got to find us some teenagers, since we've got all these great ideas for family-drama and identity-angst songs, but Keith Urban and Sheryl Crow and Celine Dion just aren't the right people to sing them."
Eppy, it's both: sounds like something being confessed in part because it starts off whispery and acoustic.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 18:06 (7 years ago) Permalink
also my fav. k. osbourne song is the one she didn't write, which is papa don't preach, but then that's a great song so i don't know what it says.
madonna could have written it but does that mean kelly could have?
who meant it more when they were singing it?
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 18:12 (7 years ago) Permalink
A quick run-through at Wikipedia gives these dates of birth:
Current producers/songwriters: Ben Moody 1981, Kara DioGuardi 1970, Greg Wells 1968, Max Martin 1971, Dallas Austin 1972, Raine Maida 1970, Chantal Kraviazuk 1974.
(Of course Moody and Maida and Kraviazuk are better known as performers, and Avril can get on this list for co-writing "Breakaway"; there were a number I couldn't find, but I'm guessing late '60s for John Shanks. I have no idea how old Clif Magness is - well, I surmise he's over 20 and under 60 - and he's interesting to me because he can be at least as metal as Moody is. Also, he's real good.)
Current performers: Hilary Duff 1987, Lindsay Lohan 1986, Marion Raven 1984, Marit Larsen 1983, Ashlee Simpson 1984, Britney Spears 1981, Pink 1979, Kelly Clarkson 1982, Avril Lavigne 1984.
So, Ben Moody is basically a contemporary of those he's writing with and producing (well he's five years older than Lindsay), and so is David Hodges I'm sure though I couldn't find his date of birth. But most of the rest are 15 to 25 years older, whereas...
Early and mid '60s producers/songwriters: Gerry Goffin 1939, Carole King 1942, Phil Spector 1940, Jeff Barry 1938, Ellie Greenwich 1940, Cynthia Weil 1940, Barry Mann 1939.
Early and mid '60s performers: Ronnie Spector 1943, Darlene Love 1938, Mary Weiss 1949. Wikipedia didn't have dates of birth for the Dixie Cups. For perspective here, Eric Burdon is 1941. (I'm choosing Burdon because the Animals had hits with Mann and Weil's "We Gotta Get Outta This Place" and Goffin and King's "Don't Bring Me Down." He's their age, but he still represents a new era that cut into these people's business until King reinvented herself as a singer-songwriter.)
So basically, the people who were writing and producing the Ronettes and the Crystals were the same age as the performers themselves; whereas the Shangri-Las were significantly younger. Mary Weiss would have been 15-16 when she sang their hits, while Barry and Greenwich were in their mid 20s by then. In any event, the producers and writers were all in their early and mid twenties when they were creating this music (I think Carole King was 18 when she wrote "Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow?").
Greg Wells, by the way, is Gerry Goffin and Carole King's son-in-law.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 19:55 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Abby (abby mcdonald), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 20:45 (7 years ago) Permalink
I found a Japanese site that has a 1957 birthdate for Clif Magness. A quick glance at his credits doesn't seem to find any heavy metal, but that might be owing to the ignorance of my glance, not an actual lack of metal.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 21:13 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 23:18 (7 years ago) Permalink
Proof that I can't do elementary arithmetic: 10 to 20 years older is more like it, not counting Magness (and I don't necessarily trust the date I got on him). Of course from my point of view they're all wet behind the ears.
But the point is that there's a significant age gap now whereas there hadn't been between the Brillers and their performers.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 15:10 (7 years ago) Permalink
I liked the Destiny's Child hits from 1999, but I never really felt them. The one Destiny's Child song I love is "Survivor," from 2001, and in that one Beyoncé's a passionate, immature bitch, and I feel I'm hearing the person not the persona. I don't mean to imply a general rule that persons are better than personas, or that persons can't be part of personas and vice versa; but in this case the person was warmer and more alive for me than was the persona.
It was "Survivor" that jumped to mind when Je4nn3 wrote upthread about pop sounding younger than it once did. (This makes sense for me if you compare the 1999 of TLC–Destiny's Child–Pink to current teenpop, but not if you compare the 1999 of Backstreet Boys–*NSync–Britney. I'm still not sure how much I agree with Je4nn3's point, but I good one to think about).
The original Pink sound was modeled after the Destiny Child, even if Pink's persona was edgier. On another thread I told Tom that I didn't consider Pink's subsequent shift to confessional rock an attempt to move from teenpop to adult (rock) cred, since she already had adult r&b cred. She had cred with everybody but herself. The shift allowed her to be as messed-up on CD as she was in life.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 16:18 (7 years ago) Permalink
My favorite song of that 1999 r&b style is Blaque's "808," which is a lot sweeter and warmer than "Bills Bills Bills" and "No Scrubs," though maybe not as interesting.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 16:22 (7 years ago) Permalink
Not to say that this can't be seen in countless pop stars to some degree, but in Ashlee's case, real public trauma is a kind of shortcut to perceivable confessional honesty. (Strange that so many use those same embarrassments/experiences that have informed many of the songs to essentially dismiss the album, when that's the lens through which it should be engaged.)
Re: the "know confessional when I hear it" idea, it's also interesting that many artists like the Veronicas (and maybe Hilary or Aly and AJ to a lesser extent) have found ways to use the "sound" of confessional rock to create straight-up bubblegum music, no "legit" backing persona necessary -- although if more Veronicas sounded like the one DioGuardi track, they may sound less like bubblegum. Is confessional bubblegum an oxymoron?
Saw yesterday that Radio Disney is now streaming to the internet, meaning you can get yer B5 fix in the middle of nowhere, too.
― nameom (nameom), Thursday, 9 March 2006 16:41 (7 years ago) Permalink
both feel horribly precocious.
also we should talk about the holdouts, ppl like ashlee's older sis who haven't gone the confessional mode, and if now confessional is the opposite -- something you grow out of intsead of grow into.
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 9 March 2006 17:20 (7 years ago) Permalink
I Am Me really is great though. Not only is Ashlee looking a lot like Courtney Love, this album reminds me a lot of Celebrity Skin. Although in a funny way it almost doesn't quite work as well as a pop album - one of the great things about Celebrity Skin is how burnished and perfected so many of the songs sound; I Am Me sounds a lot looser and less fussy.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 9 March 2006 21:39 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 9 March 2006 21:52 (7 years ago) Permalink
Janis Ian says NO!
― xhuxk, Thursday, 9 March 2006 21:52 (7 years ago) Permalink
It's also interesting that what you guys are calling confessional rock other people hear as a gloss on metal.
― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 9 March 2006 21:57 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 9 March 2006 21:58 (7 years ago) Permalink
Nothing here on how the top three albums in the country this week (or last week*? I can never keep weeks straight; I always get Billboard a week behind I think) were all for little kiddies? (i.e. High School Musical, Kidz Bop, Curious George soundtrack.) Well, now there is.
* - 'cuz now Ne-Yo passed them all on the right, right?
― xhuxk, Thursday, 9 March 2006 23:32 (7 years ago) Permalink
The Singles Jukebox
Good analysis too, from Eppy, Martin, Edward, and others. (I love the song but I'm still basically inarticulate about what it's doing.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 9 March 2006 23:57 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Friday, 10 March 2006 00:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Friday, 10 March 2006 00:15 (7 years ago) Permalink
― edward o (edwardo), Friday, 10 March 2006 00:19 (7 years ago) Permalink
OK. Let's invent a retrospective subgenre called Confessional Metal that can serve as a precedent for current teenpop. Songs in this subgenre would be...
Well, there's Nazareth's great cover of Joni Mitchell's "This Flight Tonight." And I'd say a lot of Guns N' Roses tracks share a family resemblance to "confessional." (I count GN'R as metal when I feel like it.)
From the sound of it, Clif Magness listened to a lot of Zeppelin and Sabbath; and I think John Shanks listened to Def Leppard. (Has anyone seen the credits on the recent Bon Jovi? Does Shanks play on it, or is he just there as a producer and sometimes songwriter?)
But I've been using the term "confessional" as a fairly loose catchall. In fact, I think that what Ashlee's doing with her personal lyrics is a bit different from what Pink and Lindsay are doing with theirs. But for the reason I gave upthread in capital letters, I'm going to hold off a few days before saying more about that aspect of her work and about her probing of her use of her own celebrity.
But here's a question I posted back on the Ashlee Emo or Oh No thread that no one responded to:
What would you people (if you've seen it) say about the album photos? She entitles the record I Am Me and then gives us a whole bunch of very different looks: the Nico Ashlee, the Marlene Ashlee, the Debutante Ashlee, the Forlorn Runner-Up Prom Queen Ashlee, the Burlesque Ashlee, and - I don't know, the one in the brown two-piece, and her hair a dishmop - Frazzled Riverboat Harlot Ashlee. Pieces of her. Or pieces of her playing dressup.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 10 March 2006 00:32 (7 years ago) Permalink
Also, the "I feel safe with you" part comes in the break, which has a sound - a slow and serious climbing up the notes - very different from the rest of the song. It's brief, but suggests something at stake (sex being about acceptance, self-acceptance), then the song goes back to the exuberant lala fuckaraound.
And then on I Am Me she's trying on a bunch of musical roles.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 10 March 2006 00:46 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 10 March 2006 00:48 (7 years ago) Permalink
But anyway, that's not what we're here to talk about, really, because "Don't Save Me" is awesome and I'd put it all on Marit's shoulders. The way she sings it, phrases it - I'm willing to contemplate the possibility that "Don't turn the truth around/It reads the same way upside down" isn't the greatest lyric ever, but the way she sort of... there's not a word for it, but if there was it'd be in between snarl and smirk and snigger and sneer - the way she does that anyway, her voice gets redoubled for the punchline - fuckin' awesome. "House! Of! Cards!" And the way she lets "Don't you dare" out of her mouth, the last little "r" sound, I swear that when I sing along to that it makes the taste buds on the tongue ripple apart like velcro hooks gently unlacing themselves... it's rather bloody remarkable, really.
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Friday, 10 March 2006 01:06 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 10 March 2006 01:17 (7 years ago) Permalink
So, the words might belong to the category "Young Woman's Relationships Singer-Songwriter Pop" - I'll call it Tashpop for short, though I've actually so far paid no attention to the Tashbed's lyrics - but the sound isn't Tashpop at all. Anyway, I have no idea if her sound is new or if people in the know would be able to say, "Oh, her arranger is Blibbidy Blibsen, and this is what he always does." Or, "Yeah, that's the gatticky-glip-glip genre that's so popular in Denmark and Iceland these days." The Jukebox crew noticed all sorts of ABBA touches in "Don't Save Me" that passed me by (I've actually only heard a smattering of ABBA's biggest songs). To my ears, her musical elements aren't new, but she's fashioned them into something unique. So she's neither teenpop nor Tashpop, and on two songs at least she's found a way to sidestep a problem (a problem for me, anyway, if not for the performers) that Natasha and Alanis and KT Tunstall and Dido etc. have, which is that they do the "bright young woman with something to say" thing by flaunting a pseudosmart hard edge and vocal mastery and control, all of which tends to subdue the music. (Doesn't subdue it altogether, by a long shot, and I realize that these people sing this way because they like the way it sounds. But...)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 10 March 2006 01:33 (7 years ago) Permalink
Autobiography has variety too, in fact the song on it that I'm going to talk about later is a tour de force, drastically different styles of melody in the verse and chorus, Ashlee using two or three different types of vocal attack but holding the song so well together with her timbre that you hear it as a unity (I didn't notice its variety until I sat down and analyzed the thing). I'd say the difference on I Am Me - not on all the tracks, just a few of them - is that she's shifting timbre. I'll have to give this more thought. It isn't the variety per se but that she makes a few things feel like dressup: The hot disco-slut break in "Burnin' Up" is what I'm thinking of most, but also the sugar-pop chorus of "L.O.V.E." "Eyes Wide Open" feels like a mood piece - albeit hard rock. Being dark rather than a hoot, it doesn't have the feel of dressup, but it's still a change, her slow singing.
I agree that Missundaztood has a lot of variety, but once again the mood isn't dressup. Not that I'd call the overall mood of I Am Me dressup, either, but it has that element. I think. Autobiography probably has as much melodic variety - Shanks & DioGuardi are versatile - but the guitar sound and vocal timbre are more consistent.
(I've only heard a couple of tracks from Celebrity Skin. The styles on America's Sweetheart are all over the place.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 10 March 2006 02:17 (7 years ago) Permalink
On the other hand, maybe it is. It's damn good. I hadn't even noticed it, as I was so amused, bemused, and fascinated by the sound.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 10 March 2006 02:28 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 10 March 2006 02:31 (7 years ago) Permalink
― edward o (edwardo), Friday, 10 March 2006 02:39 (7 years ago) Permalink
No, never heard it.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 10 March 2006 02:53 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 10 March 2006 04:58 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 10 March 2006 05:09 (7 years ago) Permalink
I'll tell you, the other songs on here will have to be complete dogs for this album not to make my Pazz & Jop ballot. (Assuming I get to hear the album. Amazon doesn't yet know of it, at least in the U.S. Not that I could afford an import album.)
The album's title is Under the Surface.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 10 March 2006 05:10 (7 years ago) Permalink
anyway, another countertrend indicator could be (tho again, this was earlier than the current wave and also, sorta flopped maybe?) jewel's 0304.
what you heard as dress-up on the ashlee frank i more cynically heard as "trying lots of styles for singles to see what sticks" but then that's what we all do when we're growing up is see what styles stick with others and then that makes us as much as we made the styles to begin with.
the style question is less look and sound and more in song construction i feel, not that i'm going to listen to the whole album right now again and give a close reading, but the sense was just that the sorts of songs drew from lots of places, not that ashlee herself was going lots of places, or even singing about different identitiees so much as just borrowing lots of constructions along the way.
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 10 March 2006 06:44 (7 years ago) Permalink
It may well be, or maybe it's "You said you were just kidding/And I say, this is no joke", though that might just be the incredible frigging popping noise she makes when she sings 'joke' - she does that with almost all those last words, and it never ever sounds forced or meta or whatever, just... wow. I'm trying to think of other modern popular singers who could do this, and struggling. Sophie Ellis-Bextor's the nearest one I could come up with, though it's hard to tell since her lyrics are almost always stunningly awful...
Need this album. Dammit.
Another name to throw out there - Hello Saferide, from Sweden. I am currently very much digging their "If I Don't Write This Song, Someone I Love Will Die" - not quite in Marit's league, but still very chirpy Scandipop with guitars and such.
(also presuming the Eurovision thread is the place to be discussing Kate Ryan's "Je T'Adore"?)
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Friday, 10 March 2006 10:57 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 10 March 2006 13:29 (7 years ago) Permalink
It took me a few weeks to adjust to all the New Pornographers records after the first one. Agreed about the words, but when he uses 'em well in the chorus it really kills, like on "Sing Me Spanish Techno" on the new one. Who knows what that's about, but. And on the second album, Bejar's "Ballad of the Comeback Kid" had one of the pop moments of the year for me when he yells "Like a bat out of hell..."
Obviously they're not particularly teenpop, because of the words and all (which arguably makes 'em not even very pop) but they did cover a power-pop song, here, and it's interesting to see how the style fits with the song.
― Eppy (Eppy), Friday, 10 March 2006 14:22 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Le Baaderonixx de Clignancourt (baaderonixx), Friday, 10 March 2006 14:26 (7 years ago) Permalink
Bizarre, my neanderthal downloadaphobia is starting to make me feel months behind on TEEN-POP, of all things. (Though it's not really phobia; it's just that I have so many CDs piled up I can hold in my hands that I don't get *around* to downloading, and anyway, I don't trust my judgement when I listen to music that way. It's too sterile, too much like going to a listening session where I'm not allowed to hold the record, too fucking transitory, sorry. Music is meant to be lived with, and that's just not how I live. So who knows, maybe I'll try to BUY the Marit Larsen and Aly & AJ albums someday, just like the last Toby Keith album and the Akon album and Ha-Ash and Reggaeton Ninos other stuff I still haven't gotten around to. Or maybe I won't.)
not from country thread:
Speaking of Reggaeton Ninos, I noticed in Billboard this week that there is one other album (*La Pluma Negra* by El Chichiuilte -- sounds Mexican, right?) that is both on the "Top Kid Audio Albums" chart and the "Top Latin Albums" chart, always a good sign. Anybody know anything about it or them? (Also in Billboard: "Love of My Life," a duet with Reina off the Louis Prata guido-disco album I mention above, is at #16 on the "Dance Airplay" chart. Good for him!)
― xhuxk, Friday, 10 March 2006 14:54 (7 years ago) Permalink
* -- I DID download the Kidz Bop version of "Axel F," however. If it was a single, it'd have an outside shot at my 2006 singles ballot.
― xhuxk, Friday, 10 March 2006 15:27 (7 years ago) Permalink
is it because it has the word daddy?
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 10 March 2006 15:49 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Friday, 10 March 2006 18:28 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Friday, 10 March 2006 18:44 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Friday, 10 March 2006 18:45 (7 years ago) Permalink
I wouldn't be surprised if some of this stuff ends up drifitng towards the hyper-production approach of the second Garbage album.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 10 March 2006 23:03 (7 years ago) Permalink
First-spin favourite apart from DSM is "This Time Tomorrow", which is a quirky, strangely-structured song that keeps shifting dynamics and has a lovely chorus.
Wonderfuly, the wholet hign sounds expensive and glossy. Hurrah.
― edward o (edwardo), Friday, 10 March 2006 23:06 (7 years ago) Permalink
― edward o (edwardo), Saturday, 11 March 2006 12:25 (7 years ago) Permalink
Let me guess, "Endless Sleep" on the Nagg album is the one you thought was most Quatro-like. Digital copies don't come with credits or lyrics, so I'm guessing.
-- George 'the Animal' Steele (georg...), March 11th, 2006.
Nope -- Well, maybe, but the one I meant was "She's in Love With You," which is an actual Suzi Quatro cover. (Liner Notes to Suzi's Razor & Tie *The Wild One* comp say she took it #41 in the US and #11 in the UK in 1979 -- I'm assuming as the followup to "Stumblin' In.")-- xhuxk (xedd...), March 11th, 2006.
Didn't realize that. But the one you mention really has zing, too. "Sleep" is a thumping pop boogie, like you'd find on the first two SQ LPs. Maybe. Anyway, it's a good Nagg song and that album shoulda went further than local.-- George 'the Animal' Steele (georg...), March 11th, 2006.
They've apparently got no qualms (in the great tradition of Girlschool, Joan Jett, and the Sirens) of doing loud shouting glam rock cover versions. Not sure who if anybody did all of these first, but these songs on the Nagg CD do not get Ward and/or Turner writing credits:Beauty of the Bitch (Craig/Kinsley/Coates/Cashin)Endless Sleep (Nance/Reynolds)She's in Love With You (Chin/Chapman)So What If I Am? (Murray/Callander)We're Really Gonna Raise the Roof (Holder/Lea -- so Slade, obviously)Little Boy Sad (Walker)All I Need (Herrewig/Paliselli/Cooper/Cox)
And it is now back in my CD changer (replacing Juvenille, who I'll get around to eventually.)
-- xhuxk (xedd...), March 11th, 2006.
(And interestingly, one of my favorite Joan Jett songs has always been the one CALLED "Nag," originally apparently done I believe by a group called the Halos, who judging from her version -- I've never heard theirs -- sure must have sounded an awful lot like the Coasters.)-- xhuxk (xedd...), March 11th, 2006.
All I Need is Artful Dodger, a Virginia or Maryland glam rock band I saw open for Kiss and others in Pennsy a lot. They had a few albums on Columbia, the two best being the first s/t and Honor Among Thieves. I don't remember this song. Naggs are reminding me of The Sirens.Endless Sleep was some kind of rockabilly hit in the late Fifties. "So What If I Am" is a song by Paper Lace I never heard, PL being the "Billy Don't Be A Hero" single act.
Wow. Those guys are record collectors! (Paper Lace actually hit in the States with "The Night Chicago Died," the opening of which -- "daddy was a cop/on the east side of Chicago/back in the USA/back in the bad old days" -- might be the first example of gansta rap ever to top US charts. Bo Donaldson and the Heywoods, who also covered "Teenage Rampage" by the Sweet, had the US hit with their cover of Paper Lace's apparent Brit hit "Billy Don't Be a Hero." Which makes me wonder what connection, if any, Paper Lace and Bo Donaldson may have had to glam rock in England. Though I guess in the early Sweet/Bolan years, "glam rock" and "Top 40 teenybop singles pop" may have been one and the same there? Limeys please explain.)-- xhuxk (xedd...), March 11th, 2006.
― xhuxk, Saturday, 11 March 2006 18:53 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 12 March 2006 02:38 (7 years ago) Permalink
I love I Am Me and want to know if I should invest in Lindsay. Help me ILX!
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 12 March 2006 06:53 (7 years ago) Permalink
― edward o (edwardo), Sunday, 12 March 2006 07:13 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 12 March 2006 14:05 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 13 March 2006 18:02 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 13 March 2006 18:05 (7 years ago) Permalink
― nameom (nameom), Monday, 13 March 2006 18:24 (7 years ago) Permalink
I doubt that there's a particular album that can be cited as "this is what the teenpoppers take after," but note that most of the teenpop songwriters and producers are also regular pop songwriters and producers, Magness having worked with Ballard who worked with Alanis, Shanks having worked a lot with Sheryl Crow and some with Morissette (not to mention SheDaisy, Urban, Bon Jovi, Celine, etc.) DioGuardi with Celine and Gwen, Wells with Celine, etc. etc. etc. etc.
When I first heard Garbage, I thought that Shirley was taking after Courtney (and thought this was a good thing). When I first heard Alanis I thought that she was more or less in Sheryl's genre (and that this was a good thing).
My guess from the sound and words of "Break You" and "End of Me" is that Marion's listened to Alanis. M2M once opened for Jewel, for what that's worth. Over on Poptimists Martin said that Marit's cited Alanis and Oasis as faves. Ashlee told Elle that "Let It Be" was her favorite song and that Alanis's "You Learn" was crucial to her when she was a ten year old, implying that it's still crucial to her - this makes sense given her attempts to wrench moral and intellectual insights from her problems.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 13 March 2006 18:51 (7 years ago) Permalink
You've already done scads of songs that are better than "Let It Be" and "You Learn."
Sincerely,
A Fan
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 13 March 2006 18:52 (7 years ago) Permalink
Ashlee does seem to shove that cereal bowl awfully hard.
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 13 March 2006 20:42 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 15:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
THE FRAY - Who have a song with the intriguing title "Over My Head (Cable Car)" at #64 on the singles chart, so maybe they're from San Francisco? Also their album is at #110.
PLUMB -- "One woman rock act Tiffany Arbuckle," #177 on album chart.
FLYLEAF - #140 on album chart, and, judging from a photo elsehwere in the issue, they have a female singer.
Has anybody out there heard any of these bands? What sound they like?
― xhuxk, Tuesday, 14 March 2006 15:52 (7 years ago) Permalink
Not as consistently beautiful as Lacuna Coil, not as consistently tuneful as Kelly, but definitely worth listening to.
From a miniscule town in Texas.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 18:30 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 18:41 (7 years ago) Permalink
And Britney's from neighboring Louisiana.
(Lindsay's from Long Island! I mention that because my general name for the "attractive demanding needy vocal style" is "Long Island bar-bitch vocals," by which I'm imagining a '70s Long Island bar band that comes to CBGB to display its original material, the lead singer always being a rock chick putting on tough sassy vocals. Chantal Claret of Morningwood sounds like this, the Slunt singer sounds like this, and Debora Iyall of Romeo Void singing "I might like you better if we slept together" is what they all wish they sounded like. Probably none of these people are from Long Island [and in the little contact I had in real life with Debora she seemed to be real sweetheart]. But anyway, Lindsay doesn't sound like this at all. She's more like the four-year-old with her little plastic shovel and bucket at the beach, romping around and splattering all over.)(And I wouldn't say that Lacey really sounds like the Long Island bar bitch - Jess and Lisa of the Veronicas sometimes do, however. Lacey's got more of the neediness and less of the demand in her voice.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 18:53 (7 years ago) Permalink
Legends can be true; what makes them legends is that they fit a story that cultures like to tell themselves. The Legend of Cassie is that she descended into drugs and despair and pulled herself out through Christianity, and when her life was on the line she stood by her belief. (The song has it, "The question asked in order/To save her life or take it/The answer no to avoid death/The answer yes would make it," but I don't believe that during the massacre it was clear what would save you and what wouldn't. I'm not going to research that issue, either.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 19:11 (7 years ago) Permalink
(And no I don't worked for her label, or anyone else's.)
― Mitya (mitya), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 20:09 (7 years ago) Permalink
Aren't the Veronicas from Australia (which isn't to say they aren't trying to sound like they're from Long Island, except the speak/sing track where the accent slips out)? How about New Jersey brats...Daphne and Celeste, more recently the Jonas Brothers...
― nameom (nameom), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 20:50 (7 years ago) Permalink
"Come Closer" - Now this for sure has a banjo, but it isn't country, or if it is, a little bit, the voice is a noncountry sprite, it hops aboard the harmonica keys and jumps about. If you slowed this track to half-speed and gave it a violin section instead of a banjo, it'd be 1950s "sophisticated" lounge music, but here it's another tour of the monkey bars. In the lyrics she's inviting a guy to come closer, but what he wants is not coming in clear.
(xpost - Yes, Veronicas are from Brisbane, which is why Finney had a line on them before the rest of us upthread)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 20:55 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 21:25 (7 years ago) Permalink
― nameom (nameom), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 21:38 (7 years ago) Permalink
Every time I think I've had enough of youI take you back againNot just because I need a friendJust because I can't pretendLike the others do
You think you're really seriousClever and mysteriousTalking like you're dangerousTalking like a fool
It's possible that Avril and the various Matrices never heard that song (it was an album track, not a single), but not only does it foreshadow "Complicated," it's a hell of a lot more complicated besides, and completely assured in both its flow and its sanity.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 22:19 (7 years ago) Permalink
Every time I think I've had enough of youI take you back againNot because I need a friendJust because I can't pretendLike the others do
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 22:45 (7 years ago) Permalink
Oh I'm with you. I am completely bowled over by her, especially the song "LDN", which is just the best thing I've heard in a good long while. Lily is the sound of the year. I mean this Marit person is cutsey and winsome and everything, but not really IT.
― David Orton (scarlet), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 22:48 (7 years ago) Permalink
Tim, I'll write a bit about "I Am Me" vs The Lohan when I get home in a few hours.
― edward o (edwardo), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 01:32 (7 years ago) Permalink
>>For Immediate ReleaseMarch 15, 2006
MATISYAHU DEBUTS AT #4 ON BILLBOARD 200 WITH NEW ALBUM ‘YOUTH'
With Sales Of 119,000, ‘Youth,' Finds Matisyahu The Only Artist With Two Albums Currently In The Billboard Top 40
‘Youth' Captures #1 Spots On Top Internet Albums Chart, Digital Albums Chart And Reggae Chart As ‘Live At Stubb's' Lands at #3 On Reggae Chart<
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 15 March 2006 18:20 (7 years ago) Permalink
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 19:06 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 15 March 2006 19:13 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 19:17 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tiki Theater Xymposium (Bent Over at the Arclight), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 19:24 (7 years ago) Permalink
Kind of a hope springing eternal type thing.
Oh yes, and the Lily Allen raving is by and large a bit bang on. That link's for her Myspace, where there are four songs, the three of which I've heard could definitely be classified as 'dead good'. Kind of like 'Why Do I Do?' by Tyler James from a couple years ago, except Lily appears to have been blessed with more than one good song, a slightly less irritating voice, and the chorus to 'LDN', which is rather immense.
One worrying sign - she appears to be on Regal, the label which did roughly nothing for Cathy Davey's career a couple of years ago.
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 22:30 (7 years ago) Permalink
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 23:33 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Mitya (mitya), Thursday, 16 March 2006 00:31 (7 years ago) Permalink
I'm working on everything for my new record it's going great... but I'm in the middle of writing my new BIO/press release to send out to people that may not know me like you do... so if any of you have any cool words or phrases to describe me or my sound... post it!
Just so you know... if you post, I can't give you writing credit on the BIO... but I will give you all the credit on the board and my website! Deal? Sweet deal! Thanx for your help! ox
Skye
Ha, she'll probably draft it herself...
― nameom (nameom), Thursday, 16 March 2006 02:34 (7 years ago) Permalink
"I Am Me" has been discussed a lot on here, but part of the reason I like it so much is that it sounds like the kind of "rock" record I would love to have written if I were a songwriter. Lots of the chords and riffs in it sound like songs I love that are maybe a bit obscure (as I said on the country thread, "In Another Life" is a dead sound-alike for Artificial Joy Club's lost-classic single "Skywriting"). "Beautifully Broken" sounds like a Belgian trance act's ballad done as a rock song (might be Sylver's "Shallow Water" but I'd have to find the song I'm thinking about), and for all the blather that people say about "HAHA THE ALBUM IS CALLED I AM ME AND SHE IS DOING LOTS OF DIFFERENT STYLES", well, I don't necessarily agree with it. It sounds like a mostly rock record to me, and I'll wager if you look into the archives of a lot of reviewers who have been lukewarm on "I Am Me", you'll find them praising OTHER artists for being eclectic and such. The "too many different styles" thing is often used as a criticism where no genuine one is available - reviewers seem to praise eclecticism and similarity between tracks on an album as it suits them, and partially it must be the "Oh, rock music is serious business for guys who LOVE music and trainspot obscure punk influences, we can't have teenage girls singing or enjoying it and generally taking it back to what it was in the 50s, can we" mentality, but there are lots of straw-men and there's not enough time to tackle them. FWIW, the first 8 songs on "I Am Me" are so ridiculously strong that whenever the next single is announced, I'm going to go "Oh, no, I was really hoping for xxxx". ("Dancing Alone", please, Ashlee's people, please, which is the alternative-dimension "Cool" where it goes horribly wrong). I'm guessing 30-something or beyond critics don't know the magic of a tiny bit of dress-up, slightly different outfits that are only surface changes, and that's really all that Ashlee does - the stylistic differences are pretty minor, in much the same way that Shania Twain puts in Timbaland-esque string stabs, cascading synths, fake Oriental sounds but still sings pop-country songs, Ashlee basically does Shanks' songs in the same way, and if that occasionally takes her into Courtney territory, well and good, if it makes her into a disco-dancing fag hag ("L.O.V.E.") then that's grand too, and those who criticise, well, they should consider whether they wear the same clothes at work or at a club or on a date and then realise that they're stupid.
I guess i go on about it a lot, but it's in the strengths of "I Am Me" that the weaknesses in the Lindsay Lohan album become clear. The Lohan album, has a more consistent, superficially FITTING sheen, of the kind that Stephen Thomas Erlewine (whose taste is dubious) can probably approve for a popette - a little piano and some plonked heavy guitars, but it doesn't hit at any point, and even when the tempo changes it's got this horrible awful saminess about it. The problem is, even though it's a superficially more dramatic pallette, the songs themselves don't have anywhere near as much entertaining self-loathing or self-aggrandizement as Ashlee's. I keep expecting "My Innocence" to turn into Radiohead's "You And Whose Army", honestly. The title track's a keeper, even if only for its cheeky spoken word intro. "Who Loves You" is a deliciously sleazy kind of thing - maybe halfway between "Red Dress" and Kelly Osbourne's last album, but there's no tune. The two covers don't work at all, either. Lindsay sounds blanker, the songwriting's not as good, it's just not as strong an album.
Will say more in a bit, going to listen to the Lohan album again. I didn't end up doing the Marit, Todd Burns wrote it up and gave it an A-. I agree.
― edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 16 March 2006 08:18 (7 years ago) Permalink
― alext (alext), Thursday, 16 March 2006 12:29 (7 years ago) Permalink
(We should keep a running list of best-written teenpop (or whatever) CDBaby and Myspace pages. Skye's the winner so far, but I haven't really looked around.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 16 March 2006 16:42 (7 years ago) Permalink
"Any reason I give for liking something can and will be given as a reason of mine for disliking something else."
In other words, I love Liz Mitchell's clear and empty singing; I hate Joan Baez's clear and empty singing.
Of course I can elaborate, say that Joan's singing is soggy, whereas Liz's is as clear as a running brook. Oops, that doesn't work, as brooks are kind of wet themselves. And anyway, I'm sure to find someone I love whose vocals are absolutely drenched. Amy Lee, perhaps, but not until she learns better when to turn her faucet on full and when to moderate the flow. You see, my problem is that the drenchings lose impact through overrepetition.
I really like the consistency of Liz Mitchell's vocals.
(Liz Mitchell sang lead on most Boney M tracks.)
Anyhow, I love the eclecticism of the early Beatles albums, whereas I hate the eclecticism of The White Album.
So here's my Veronicas conundrum: for all the power of their singing, they don't really establish an identity for their music. Given that I've loved thousands upon thousands of anonymous freestyle and Europop songs - including the hit that the Veronicas co-wrote for t.A.T.u., and including the Veronicas' own "Leave Me Alone," which is basically t.A.T.u.-style Europop with a rock beat - I can't say that a lack of identity in itself is a problem at all (and the Veronicas aren't particularly eclectic, either). I guess my trouble with the Veronicas is that when they go to their sensitive "I am moved by love" or "I am moved by sadness" vocals, I don't give a shit - whereas when they go to their piercingly high harmonic "I am moved by love" or "I am moved by sadness" vocals, I am delighted. (None of this explains the times when I get moved by wooden phonetic rendering of English on some Dutch or Italian dance record. Probably has to do with the beautiful sixth-generation imitation Miami riff that was filched for the accompaniment.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 16 March 2006 17:35 (7 years ago) Permalink
http://s45.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0UNDRV2CB5U651GOP3JOVMRCX2
The fourth track, "Knock "Em Out" is a bit cliched but otherwise the other stuff is great. Abby Poptext has taken over Fluxblog today and posted Skye and something else of this general ilk -- I guess I'll check them out, given the raves.
― Mitya (mitya), Thursday, 16 March 2006 17:41 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 16 March 2006 17:45 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Thursday, 16 March 2006 18:01 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Thursday, 16 March 2006 18:04 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxkx, Thursday, 16 March 2006 18:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
Xhuxk's raising a question that I was about to ask: I said a couple of days ago that Lacey Mosley's a live wire on the order of Avril Lavigne and that a lot of harmonies could come right off of pop/teenpop tracks such as "Behind these Hazel Eyes," and Evanescence is an obvious source. But I'm wondering where else this music draws from. That is, I don't really listen to much nu-metal. I know there are a whole bunch of bratrock bands, male mostly, whose harmonies are pretty much the only redeeming elements in their music, and the harmonies tend to get undercut by the wanky dorkboy singing. But those harmonies may well be a source for Flyleaf, and those nu-metal dorkboys (and there could be a lot of nondork boys, I just haven't heard them) may well be a source for Evanescence too. Are there other women singers who set the stage for Amy and Lacey (I mean, more recent than Grace Slick and Stevie Nicks and Siouxsie Sioux; you know, nowadays singers)? I'm agreeing mostly with what Xhuxk and Ian said above about the difference between Anneke and Cristina on the one hand and Kelly on the other (and I'd add Amy and Lacey to "the other"); the former have a deliberate aloofness, the latter have very much the opposite of aloofness. I can see how a Christian rocker might go "goth" (or whatever) for goth's critique of normality and its ambivalent embrace of the not normal - and such a person's Christianity wouldn't be "let's live a happy wholesome life and never go to a city" but rather "Christ, take me beyond the bullshit, including or especially my own" - but the singing style that would go with it wouldn't be aloof, I don't think. Rather, it'd try more to sound like an unresolved problem.
Ben Moody and Amy Lee met each other as teenagers in a Christian youth camp (or that's what I read, anyway), and Fallen was high on the Christian charts as well as the Top 200 until they emphatically told Entertainment Weekly that they were a secular band (Moody: "We're actually high on the Christian charts, and I'm like, What the fuck are we even doing there?" Lee: "I guarantee that if the Christian bookstore owners listened to some of those songs, they wouldn't sell the CD.")
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 16 March 2006 18:51 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Thursday, 16 March 2006 19:03 (7 years ago) Permalink
"With an explosive passion for music, and a humble maturity that surpasses her years, this 19- year -old is a dose of fresh fire discovered as she advanced through over four rounds of auditions for the second season of Fox's hit series "American Idol." At the age of 16, Joanna was one of the youngest competing, yet continually making the cut for judges Simon Cowell, Paula Abdul and Randy Jackson in Los Angeles. "I was mixed in with people who had actually gone to school to study music, and there I was, just receiving my driver's license!" With thousands auditioning, Joanna made it to the final 80 contestants. With the confidence of industry veterans under her belt, her career in music was imminent.
Coming from a long line of pastors, Joanna grew up on a farm in Michigan as one of five children in a close-knit Italian family. "My family has always encouraged me to pursue my dreams; they have supported me and prayed for me through this entire journey." Graduating fifth in her class, Joanna knows first hand the pressures that teens face today in a culture of empty promises. "Your peers are changing so much at that age, you have to start making your own decisions to determine who you really want to be, what you want to stand for," says Joanna. "I came to a point where I said 'Here's my life Lord, I don't know what you're going to do with it, but here I am.' " With a reverent surrender and a love for music, Joanna moved to Music City after high school and headed straight into the studio."
― xhuxk, Thursday, 16 March 2006 19:11 (7 years ago) Permalink
Kittie (who definitely had occasional Lacuna Coilish moments).
― xhuxk, Thursday, 16 March 2006 19:23 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 16 March 2006 19:26 (7 years ago) Permalink
I recently started an ongoing project with this...Skye beats most of them hands down, but Brie Larson's page is pretty great (semi-underrated album, too).
I have the same problem with the Veronicas album...I was using the phrase "confessional bubblegum" but it's more like "anonymous confessional," a total killer in this case when at least half the songs are ballads.
― nameom (nameom), Thursday, 16 March 2006 20:43 (7 years ago) Permalink
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Thursday, 16 March 2006 21:32 (7 years ago) Permalink
Whereas on Autobiography there are number of tracks (I think "Undiscovered" is one of them maybe?) where Ashlee sings very sweetly, quite a distance from "Autobiography" or "Lala". In the context of the album I like that, it works by virtue of being on the same album as those harder tracks and thus showing up a different side of her (although I might not find Ashlee interesting if she did a whole album like that).
Still getting to used to Autobiography so I'm not sure yet how much I like it in relation to I Am Me, but I know that I love every single song on the latter, which is quite an achievement!
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 16 March 2006 21:35 (7 years ago) Permalink
― ana78ng (ana78ng), Thursday, 16 March 2006 21:36 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Saturday, 18 March 2006 02:50 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Saturday, 18 March 2006 03:12 (7 years ago) Permalink
>Do Perspehone's Bees count as teenpop? I know I saw their name in Billboard, but can't remember whether it was on one of the European charts or on the dance chart. Music is Eurodancepop from, uh, somewhere; I don't have the press release handy. Album out on Columbia next month. Girl singer, though she sounds like new wave era Geddy Lee or maybe the guy from Sparks on the first song, and the second one has her saying you're on the bottom and she's on the top climbing, and "Nice Day" is totally pretty and summery, and "Muzika Dlya Fil'ma" has a title in some world language or other, and closer "Home" brings it back home with an extended Link Wray twang rumble. Cool, but what the heck?
― xhuxk, Saturday, 18 March 2006 20:54 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Saturday, 18 March 2006 21:05 (7 years ago) Permalink
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Saturday, 18 March 2006 21:18 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 18 March 2006 21:32 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 19 March 2006 00:03 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Sunday, 19 March 2006 01:31 (7 years ago) Permalink
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=24911247
― xhuxk, Sunday, 19 March 2006 01:36 (7 years ago) Permalink
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=16743376
But yeah, they both seriously need to take lessons from Skye Sweetnam.
Incidentally, both Joanna and Hope are apparently over 100 years old (at least if you google their myspace pages they are).
― xhuxk, Sunday, 19 March 2006 02:19 (7 years ago) Permalink
Wednesday, March 15, 2006 NO more FREE donuts when the light is on!!!!!!!We drove to South Carolina tonight.On our way to stop to eat dinner, we see a Krispy Kreme across the street.The Light was on!So I told the guys that you get free donuts when the light is on, because we always used to do that!They didn't believe me.So I told them to pull over and I will prove it to them.We all walk in.They lady looks at me like I'm crazy when I ask her to tell them that we get FREE donuts because the light is on.GEEEEZZ!They definitely think I'm a loser.AND I'm sad to say that this Krispy Kreme is no longer giving away free donuts when they are fresh and hot! Hopefully other Krispy Kremes have not conformed to this absurd craziness.
― xhuxk, Sunday, 19 March 2006 02:26 (7 years ago) Permalink
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=23896606&blogID=57756512&MyToken=378e44d1-a8d4-464e-979f-9ca0f8f204ba
And they also have the best taste in music ever:
Influences Jump5, Reo speed wagon, Pussycat Dolls,gwen stefani, green day, click 5, Mcfly, Ludacris, DHT, The all American Rejects, Martina Mcbride, Rebecca Lynn Howard, Carrie Underwood, Meredith Edwards, Brittany Hargest, Deanna Carter,Christina Aguilera, Gretchen Wilson, Big and Rich, Kenny Chesney, Leann Rimes, Janet Jackson, Britney Spears,gunz n roses, Hanson, Charlotte Church, Josh Groban, Zoegirl, Kimberly Perry, Skillet, Pillar, casting crowns,TheNcrowd, OUT OF KILTER, Korn, Manson,Kenny Chesney, Tim Mcgraw, Faith Hill, Trisha Yearwood, Garth brooks, Emma Bunton, spice girls, ashlee simpson, aly and aj, Jesse McCartney, Evanescense, Skye Sweetnam, Usher, Raven, Metillica, NIN, The Donna's, Aaliyah, fat joe, Ciara, OZZY, Janet Jackson, Cher, Hilary Duff, Rascal Flatts, Jodee Messina, Billy Gilman, lil Kim, Victoria Beckham, 80's music, Cinderella, Tesla, Twizted sister, whitesnake, JOURNEY, Steve Perry, ICP, Kelly Clarkson, Jackson5, Mariah Carey, Pillar, Lita Ford, Leann Rimes,BEN FOLDS (Thanks Cali), Todd Agnew, THE RIDE HOME, FATTY HAZE, Punk music, Goth, Rave,techno, BLUEGRASS, The Starting line, My chemical Romance, Ac/dc, Good Charlotte, Cold Play, Dashboard Confessionals, Yellowcard, Death Cab, MegaDeath, Rob Zombie, Whitesnake, Posion, ALICE COOPER, Charlie Daniels Band, Daniel and Jonna's band (name tba), Michael Gungor, Kirk Franklin, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Cheetah Girls, Josh Gracin, Tiffany, Kelly Osbourne, Haylie Duff, Leann Womack, Dolly Parton, Allison Krauss, and the Union station, Prime Suspect, Elysium, Jim Parrinello (my adopted Dad), Toby Keith, Keith Anderson, Loretta Lynn, Switch foot, Mandy Moore, Rachael Lampa, Meredith Edwards, Sister Hazel, hoobastank,Katy Rose,Hanson,brooks and dunn, Cowboy Troy,Howie Day, Max a million C, Red hot Chili peppers, Looking glass, Reba,Gavin Degraw, Hope Partlow, Kaci Brown, John Mayer, (Plenty more)Go
She has music on her site, too:
http://www.myspace.com/bnicole
― xhuxk, Sunday, 19 March 2006 02:56 (7 years ago) Permalink
(And I suck because I forgot to say thanks, but thank Chuck--before I'd just sorta liked The Gathering from afar but now am turning downright fannish.)
― Grey, Ian (IanBrooklyn), Sunday, 19 March 2006 07:45 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Sunday, 19 March 2006 15:11 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Sunday, 19 March 2006 15:18 (7 years ago) Permalink
I remembered liking the second, emo-ier song from the first Lohan album more but now I can't remember anything about it at all. I think it had a cute guy in the video clip, hence my approval. Maybe he looked like Ian Somerholder? He was having a fight with his dad or something?
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 20 March 2006 02:11 (7 years ago) Permalink
The song is called "Over." The chorus gets so wonderful as it's winding down. I had difficulty understanding the storyline of the music video as well though. I guess the next door neighbor love interest for Lohan was being abused by his father, in effect adding an extra layer of narrative to the song which by itself is just a straght forward break up angst number.
My favorite Lohan track right now is "Black Hole" from A Little More Personal. Really nice rolling piano line. The verse melody is strong in a Max Martin going for Abba grandness. Unfortunately, the chorus then shifts to a kind of lite nu-metal sludgey whine but the verse parts are worth putting up with this.
― theodore (herbert hebert), Monday, 20 March 2006 08:39 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Monday, 20 March 2006 14:23 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Je4nne Æ’urÂ¥ (Je4nne Fury), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 16:18 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Je4nne Æ’urÂ¥ (Je4nne Fury), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 16:21 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 17:03 (7 years ago) Permalink
also the first lohan album is awful. the "drama queen" single from that movie is a good song trapped in lohan's voice.
the success of anything off the second album is totally contingent on how well the producers can hide her voice or scare up something decent for her to cover, especially drowned by backup singers.
still, "who loves you" is fantastic punked up moroder until it turns terribly cloying at the end.
i don't even see the dolls as emo particularly.
they're terribly teen however, or actually more for 20 somethings who are still living out their teens, in terms of the fanbase -- but also they're a good band, so don't take that as an insult.
and yeah, i did see them do a very good cover of war pigs i guess. which is old metal but not new metal at all (and by that token more nu goth)
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 17:40 (7 years ago) Permalink
(Notice that none of us has the same take on Lohan. This in itself makes her valuable.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 20:25 (7 years ago) Permalink
"Symptoms of You" - The music is so-what (Shanks & DioGuardi producers but not writers), but the lyrics qualify it for the multi-volumed Rough Guide to Codependent Relationships: "Baby all I do is suffer from symptoms of you." This is supposed to show how much she's in love, the old love-is-a-fever-or-flu routine, but the song unintentionally makes the condition seem really pathological.
[We could make The Rough Guide to Codependent Relationships an ongoing series, one or two a year, like the Now compilations.]
"First": Not her very best, but a good test case. If you're drawn in by this blaring self-centeredness, as I am, then you'll like Lohan. If you can't stomach it, then you should stay away. (From her music, that is. As an actress she's far more versatile.)
By the way, the music at the end of each verse, the part that leads into the chorus, seems a pure example of why Shanks & DioGuardi are great (and Kara DioGuardi gives herself the answering vocal part, making her voice affectless so as to highlight Lohan, but sounding beautiful nonetheless, filling in the sound). I don't have the music theory to explain what makes it typical Shanks & DioGuardi, but something about it deepens the song, gives it what I've been calling "the ache of beauty," the unexplainable feeling that love and pain are genuinely at issue here, even if the words are claiming self-confidence: "'Cause you're mine/And tonight/You don't revolve around her/You're mine and this time/I'm gonna scream a little louder."
And the Shanks guitar riff that starts this track is as exuberant as Lohan is. It's one of Miccio's favorites.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 21:08 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 21:10 (7 years ago) Permalink
So, Daj. *I Know You Want Me*, 2006, Purple Buddha Records, Albanian-American, from Florida. One of the first things you'll notice when you look at her cdbaby link above is "imagine the Veronicas on acid." Unfortunately, I have still barely heard the Veronicas at all (hope to soon), so I have no idea if that's true or not. What I do know: (1) The first song on the album is somewhere in the '80s Prince/Teena Marie/Sheila E neighborhood, and where her voice gets loud is also when the powerchords get loud, and it *isn't* Teena, I know, but it still makes me *think* of Teena, which counts for something since almost nobody ever does anymore. (2) The second song, a totally kicking cover of "I've Done Everything for You" with totally chirpy high-pitched backup vocals, supposedly written by Sammy Hagar but I know it as a Rick Springfield hit, is even better. (3) The third song might be even better: "Pretty in Punk," over-the-top silly-at-least-partly-by-accident-I-think new wave bubble-punk pop about a dad being concerned because his daughter is dating guys with piercings and she's wearing fishnets and getting kicked out of Catholic school for flashing the priest and listening to the Sex Pistols on her iPod because her favorite word is anarchy. (4) Fourth song "When You Put Your #@!! on My !#@" to quite sexy effect leaves the blanks for naughty bits blank a la George Jones's "Her Name Is..." or the Beastie Boys's "Cookie Puss" or Boney M's "Bang Bang Lulu" or something though I forget why those last two belong on the list. (5) Fifth song "Just Rock N Roll" to me is BLATANTLY Billy Joel's "Still Rock and Roll to Me" as redone by a more hard-rocking C&C Music Factory, with Daj stretching out words with extra vowels James Brown style near the end. (6) Sixth song "Forbidden Fruit" starts with a hushed fluffy spoken-word part that reminds me of Seduction or Bardeux or one of those groups, and from there on lets the music drop out into open space in a sort of dub or psychedelic pop way. (8) Ninth song "Photogenic Memory" is also apparently a cover (originally written by Jerry Knight and Davitt Sigerson!) though I don't think I ever heard the original before but this version is super catchy with freakazoid '80s robot-funk backup vocals. (Just checked AMG; turns out it was the first song on the Philip Bailey album with "Easy Lover"!) Anyway, minus the acid, is this what Veronicas sound like?
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 22 March 2006 18:41 (7 years ago) Permalink
I like Rick's better but it's not very different from Hagar's, which was also very good. "Rock 'n' Roll Weekend," "Plane Jane," Sam did a lot of hard teen pop on his Capitol LPs.
― George 'the Animal' Steele, Wednesday, 22 March 2006 18:51 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Thursday, 23 March 2006 16:41 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Thursday, 23 March 2006 16:45 (7 years ago) Permalink
lindsey & kathy, 4-song teen-pop country bubblegum rock EP by two teen florida sisters said on their cdbaby page to also be former child actors on a PBS kids' show called "the huggabug club" not to mention daughters of a pro baseball player i never heard of: first song is yet another "walmart parking lot" song, different than chris cagle's and probably closer spiritually to shannon brown's "cornfed"; in this one, you get things-frank-would-(probably accurately)-call-lies like "no one's complaining about nothing changing here" and stuff about how the local paper only has a page or two which is enough for the news in such a small town and there's only one button on the radio dial which of course plays country so it's "kinda like livin' in the past," okay, the usual myth, but who the hell said songs were supposed to be honest anyway? sound is like a fast early tom petty tune or something, though maybe somebody can figure out a more accurate '80s pop-rock referent for the guitar parts. second song is about a breakup the singer wishes didn't happen, very nice, and helped out what i believe to be a bassline from the doobie brothers' "listen to the music." third song is more bluegrass/folk trad, and the place the sisters' sibling harmonies most shine. and the last song is maybe the most interesting -- not country at all, way more like lisa lisa losing herself in emotion or deniece williams hearing it for the boy in the mid '80s. updated '60s girl group, in other words; in fact, the updating might be accidental. and it works; people who've listened to that *one kiss leads to another* box more than me should figure out what REAL girl group singer it sounds like.
― xhuxk, Thursday, 23 March 2006 19:35 (7 years ago) Permalink
http://cdbaby.com/cd/lindseykristy
And it's a picture disc!
― xhuxk, Thursday, 23 March 2006 19:37 (7 years ago) Permalink
My favorites right now are "Perfect," "Breathe Today," and "I'm So Sick." The latter two have been the two singles so far.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 23 March 2006 20:37 (7 years ago) Permalink
Did you know that John Shanks played in Teena Marie's band when he was still in high school!
Your description of Daj makes her sound better than the Veronicas. I love "4ever" and "Leave Me Alone" [which is the Veronicas imitating the song they wrote for t.A.T.u.]), and the majority of the Veronicas' other stuff sounds good but leaves me feeling a bit hammered by high-pitched so-what normality, the joy of breaking up and telling guys to fuck off, I guess, but coming across not all that joyous, you know?
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 23 March 2006 20:46 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 23 March 2006 21:13 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Friday, 24 March 2006 00:23 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Friday, 24 March 2006 11:50 (7 years ago) Permalink
'twas "funk boutique," 1991. AMG sez angel [sabater] was there for the second album in '89 but not for the third one in '92, and my CD single is storage; not positive whether angel's still on there on not.
i guess part of what gets me excited about these two cdbaby CDs is that i can't think of many acts, teen-pop or r&b otherwise, who picked up where either teena *or* lisa lisa *or* the cover girls left off. am i forgetting somebody? probably i am. but to what extent is '60s girl-group sound an element in late '90s/early '00s teen-pop at all? not nearly as much as it was in '80s pop r&b and latin freestyle, i'm sure. i didn't even hear it in the spice girls much (though of course i've yet to define what i mean by "'60s girl group sound," and i'm not sure i can. unschooled voices might be part of it, though. which obviously means lisa lisa more than it does teena. though maybe i should throw stacy lattisaw in there. {or shanice maybe?} i do know that i seem to be having a much harder time getting excited about kelly/lindsay/avril/etc than lots of people on this thread, and i'm not sure i know why. i like all of them fine, and hilary and robyn too, but they're missing SOMETHING. a sense of adventure or weirdness or surprise, maybe? though quite likely that stuff is there, and i'm just not hearing it.) (i also wish "konichiwa bitches" WAS as surprising or funky as "attack of the name game.")
(disclaimner: i'll decide a lot of that rant is utter bullshit mere minutes after i press "submit," but i'm gonna go ahead and press.)
― xhuxk, Friday, 24 March 2006 13:59 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Friday, 24 March 2006 14:24 (7 years ago) Permalink
then how come i don't like pink or gwen (or even lindsay) more? so maybe that's not it, either. (i do like all of them fine. but still.)
― xhuxk, Friday, 24 March 2006 14:26 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Friday, 24 March 2006 14:32 (7 years ago) Permalink
'Twas the Dance Club Play chart, where their single "Nice Day" is now at #3. Not sure who their album (again, coming out this month on an actual major label) would be marketed to -- I guess their audience now would be clubgoers (and specificially gay adults? Or maybe Eurotrash adults? I'm not sure), though they're songful enough that they easily *could* be marketed to teens. They'd fit in on Radio Disney. Anyway, I like this verse from "Home": "She takes her daddy's money/She spends it all on junk/She goes out with different girls."
― xhuxk, Saturday, 25 March 2006 15:02 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Saturday, 25 March 2006 15:05 (7 years ago) Permalink
http://thecaglefamily.com/
finally got the veronica's CD yesterday, and "4 ever" is indeed pretty awesome, but what it mainly sounds like to me, except for the chorus parts where the high harmonies kick in, is just a really good donnas song. (it must have been the song i compared to joan jett above, when recalling perfunctorily having listened to parts of an advance of their CD a few months before, when i didn't know who they were.) other tracks? i'm not hearing much yet. not bad, just shoulder-shrugworthy. unlike many of the non-single cuts on the e-40 CD ("muscle cars"! "yay area"! "white gurl"! "they might be taping"!), which i actually think i might like more than its single. (and e-40 belongs on the teen-pop thread, since he mentions lindsay lohan in "white gurl," which isn't about lindsay lohan but about cocaine.)
finally bought the akon CD today at princeton record exchange, after procrastinating for like 2 1/2 years. (he belongs on the teen-pop thread because frank said he does, in the first post.) "locked up" and "ghetto" are even better than i remembered. who i'm realizing he sometimes reminds me of is shinehead. (he also belongs on the world music thread! and if there was an industrial thread, the percussion of "locked up" would belong there!)
"paper plane" by persephone's bees may well take its melody from "green tambourine."
― xhuxk, Saturday, 25 March 2006 22:36 (7 years ago) Permalink
anyway, more akon thoughts: (1) i think i like the version of "locked up" without styles p better than the version with him since i prefer the jail-guitar-door slamming effects to his rapping; (2) when "lonley" was played on radio disney, did they just bleep the "bullshit," or what?; (3) "ghetto" is the song that reminds me of shinehead -- when akon's not as good, he reminds me more of shaggy, which is still okay; (4) best non-hit maybe: "journey."
so far my favorite non-hit on the veronicas' CD is "revolution." lalena says their version of "mother mother" sounds exactly like tracy bonham's (though didn't tracy just have one mother?). lalena also says the flyleaf singer sounds way more like the cranberries' singer or even sinead than bjork (who she's listened to way more than i have), but that the flyleaf vocals seem more multitracked than any of those. also, as a precedent for high female harmonies in a goth/metal context, she says Drain STH did that all the time in the late '90s.
― xhuxk, Sunday, 26 March 2006 16:35 (7 years ago) Permalink
(Drain STH apparently Swedish, all female, Ozzfesters, and often rumored to be a producer concoction not a "real band" during the high Swedish teen-pop era. Which might be relevant.)
― xhuxk, Sunday, 26 March 2006 16:44 (7 years ago) Permalink
For some reason I think of "Hello Muddah, Hello Fadduh" when I hear their version. One of the pitfalls of having no discernible personality, maybe.
― nameom (nameom), Sunday, 26 March 2006 18:54 (7 years ago) Permalink
>. kaci brown *instigator* 2005 $1.99 (who is she? she looks young. and i'm assuming she's country because that's where three copies of her CD were filed, and i think i heard of her before, possibly either in billboard or on one of these rolling country threads.)<
well, album definitely seems more like "r&b-leaning teenpop" (pretty ignorable so far, though that may change) than c&w. AMG's explanation:
>Kaci Brown grew up in Sulphur Springs, TX, and was singing at a very early age. Throughout her youth, she performed across her home state, appearing just about anyplace that would have her. To further her career, her family moved to Nashville in 2001 — remarkably, before attaining a record contract, she had a publishing deal and was writing for country artists. Though she intended to be a country artist, she was repeatedly told that she'd fare better with pop. By the end of 2005, she had summer touring dates with the Backstreet Boys, in addition to her Interscope-released debut album, under her belt. All of this happened before she passed her teenage years. A few of the things she adores, as noted on her website, include "love," "purple anything," "boys with guitars," and "boys in general."<
― xhuxk, Monday, 27 March 2006 21:35 (7 years ago) Permalink
Incubated over at Radio Disney a while ago and kept a strange blog.
― nameom (nameom), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 01:58 (7 years ago) Permalink
― nameom (nameom), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 02:24 (7 years ago) Permalink
Infrastructural inspiration, as -remarkable- as hearing 20,000 people applied for Nashville Star or the thousands that line up for various casting calls reported on by Entertainment Tonight from 7 to 7:30, everyday. Giver a Nobel or a Pulitzer or a Booker or a Mcarthur, but how many people are so blown away by the talent, that as session hacks, they'll work for free for a chance to be on the recording?
Entertainment and talent as spectroscopically combed during observation of populations of ideal gas cloud volumes of molecules. Statistically, there's always one to fit every requirement of wonder in every cloud.
― George 'the Animal' Steele, Tuesday, 28 March 2006 06:41 (7 years ago) Permalink
Yet somehow, nothing like as bad as Karmah's version of 'Just Be Good To Me'. I'm not describing that, though... quiversome. Brrr.
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 07:01 (7 years ago) Permalink
My response: "Combining Rage Against the Machine with stupid girl vocals is way better than combining Rage Against the Machine with Rage Against the Machine vocal. Sexless, juiceless dork, the guy was.
"Are there any sexy male rock singers under the age of forty?
"Flyleaf sound like Rage Against the Machine with Evanescence-type girl vocals except that Lacey the girl is a live wire on the order of Avril Lavigne rather than poor Amy Lee being stretched on the rack. (But I like Evanescence when they've got hooks; Amy's agony can be quite fetching when it's melodic.)
"I just listened to a band called Stutterfly who are like Flyleaf but even more harmonized and poppified, which would be fine with me if the guy singing hadn't removed all the sex and liquid from his vocals, sounding like another sun-deprived indie boy, basically."
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:30 (7 years ago) Permalink
So, anyway, back to Flyleaf: you get sexy female vocals, lotso high female harmonies. Now, where else in Officially Gets Played On "Rock" Stations rock do you get those sexy live wire high female harmonies? I've barely listened to the "rock" stations in the last five years, though I'm now wishing I had. You do get boy harmonies, usually sexless and dorky (in my unlearned opinion).
Xhuxk: Maybe what you're trying to say is that you wish some of the Lindsays, Avrils, Ashlees (and Shankses and Martins) hadn't thrown over the DISCO during the transition to "confessional rock" (or whatever you want to call it). And by "DISCO" of course you can really mean "freestyle w/ girlgroup leanings." Although freestyle is pretty much a dead genre, some of its DNA has wormed into Europop. Ive been telling Edward O. that some of the pretty Swedish pop needs the sort of personality-oomph that a Lindsay would give it; but I can turn this around and wish that the Ameriteens would incorporate some Eurofizz.
(By the way, "r&b" is strong on the Radio Disney palette, B5 and Jo Jo not to mention Black-Eyed Peas, Chris Brown, Pussycat Dolls, Usher, Ne-Yo, and Rihanna. Akon's finally fallen out of the Top 30, but I'll bet that "Lonely" will be a Disney perennial, like "Blue Da Bee" and "The Rockefeller Skank" and "Get Ready for This.")
Wouldn't "L.O.V.E." count as r&b, albeit more Gwen than Teena?
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:53 (7 years ago) Permalink
come back, shifty shellshock, all is forgiven.
Come my ladyCome come my ladyyou're my stutterflySugar.baby
Such a sexy,sexy pretty little thingFierce nipple pierce you got me sprung with your tongue ringand I ain't gonna lie cause your loving gets me highSo to keep you by my side there's nothing that I won't tryStutterflies in her eyes and looks to killTime is passing I'm asking could this be realCause I can't sleep I can't hold stillThe only thing I really know is she got sex appeal
― xhuxk, Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:53 (7 years ago) Permalink
Lindsay Lohan gives you something that singers with stronger voices often don't. I want to say "personality," even though that's a cliché and even though many of the world's songs are fine or even better with anonymous singers: those thousands upon thousands of freestyle and Europop songs I've loved. But even in those, the virtue may not be the anonymity of the singer so much as that the wrong singer isn't getting in the way of the song. Whereas when the singer is right, the personality can add something. (This is all abstract. Which personality, added to which song?)
One thing I noticed this time around when watching the video for "Confessions of a Broken Heart" is that, halfway through, the camera pulls back and you see that the house is all picture windows, as if it were storefront on all sides, the family dysfunction on display and onlookers crowding outside, to gawk.
Herbie: Fully Loaded: How come I was so moved by this film? The Herbie concept (a car with a personality, can intuit moods and intentions, takes rudimentary action on its own but still needs symbiosis with the right driver) is dutifully brought up every now and then, since it's the official reason for the picture, but basically the movie sidesteps it. The story is about the driver, not the car. Any (nonpsychic) stock car would do. The Herbie concept's only usefulness is that it gives Matt Dillon the opportunity to be hilarious as the conceited, handsome creep of a driver who's continually blowing his gasket whenever the VW bug beats him. Dillon and the bug relate on one level, the rest of the movie is on another. This strategy - one set of characters operating in different zones from other sets - can work in a story. Dickens did it all the time. I would just say that in watching Herbie: Fully Loaded you just bracket the boring "Herbie" ideas and forget them when they're not needed.
Lohan was 17 or 18, playing a woman in her early twenties. She plays her as someone forthright, energetic, but watchful. I could imagine Lindsay doing the Jodie Foster role in Silence of the Lambs, a fundamental directness but with the need to keep a formal reserve in the bureaucratic FBI environment and, when dealing with mindfucking madman Hannibal, a care in weighing just how much of her vulnerability to dole out to him in exchange for the information she needs.
Screenwriters provide words and a lot of social subtext, which is also provided by costumes and sets. The actors provide bodies, postures, movement, tones of voice, expressions that make lines plausible, ways of standing in this particular kitchen or that particular porch or in a particular garage, next to a particular guy. Herbie: Fully Loaded has a between-the-lines subtext about the dad's class anxiety and his wanting his daughter to surpass him and enter a world he would never feel right in. Michael Keaton playing the dad moves as if he's no longer comfortable in himself, whereas Lohan walks in a direct line, except then she'll waver, not quite allowing herself to claim her true calling, which is actually back among the stock cars with her dad.
When Lindsay's "First" plays under the closing credits, the effect is totally jarring, since the posturing, demanding, voluptuous adolescent voice of the song has nothing to do with the clear sleek line of the character I'd been seeing for the last two hours.
("First" sounds better and better every time I hear it.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:08 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:10 (7 years ago) Permalink
Some of Have a Nice Day's lyrics convey what would be an interesting dissatisfaction if they weren't so evasively abstract, though here's one that's kind of engaging (and intrigued rather than dissatisfied): "She wakes up when I sleep to talk to ghosts like in the movies/If you don't follow what I mean, I sure don't mean to be confusing/They say when she laughs she wants to cry/She'll draw a crowd then try to hide."
For what it's worth, one of the tracks, "Who Says You Can't Go Home," is Top Twenty on the country charts: a Cougar-wannabe number that's neither terrible nor good.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:16 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:24 (7 years ago) Permalink
(I wonder why that happened.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:34 (7 years ago) Permalink
http://cdbaby.com/cd/kingwell
― xhuxk, Tuesday, 28 March 2006 19:03 (7 years ago) Permalink
http://cdbaby.com/cd/kingwell2
― xhuxk, Tuesday, 28 March 2006 19:06 (7 years ago) Permalink
>"I saw The Angels gig at the Palace in 2000 and it absolutely knocked me out. I was one of a dozen girls in a room of about 1500 guys who just went off and knew the words to every song. That gig got me thinking about how to create some kick arse rock n' roll that girls would dig as much as guys."<
>A four track EP featuring a cover of Fischer Z's 1980 smash "So Long" plus 2 originals.<
and yeah (as reviews on those pages say) i definitely hear the easybeats and suzi quatro in there, too.
― xhuxk, Tuesday, 28 March 2006 19:19 (7 years ago) Permalink
(paraphrased from a long rant:) I think the "personality" is related more to the teen pop star system, connected to film/TV cross-platforming. There's nothing actually "new" about it except for the genre of music it's being applied to. Stephen Thomas Erlewine discussed this in his AMG review of I Am Me (but as a weakness of the album). Confessional rock creates a kind of personal narrative that a lot of other pop formats don't, and in this sense the star -- Lindsay, Ashlee, occasionally Hilary maybe -- lets audiences into a seemingly personal story in a way an anonymous (Veronicas) or unknown (maybe Avril or Michelle Branch when they first became popular?) can't necessarily. Maybe whatever qualities make Lindsay compelling as a movie star also make her compelling as a singer, even if its not the singing that stands out.
I guess my problem with Erlewine's criticism is that it relates to celebrity gossip culture, which I Am Me is certainly in conversation with, but not dependent on for resonance. It's Ashlee that sells the songs, not just the idea or celebrity of Ashlee (one reason why Lindsay's confessional album doesn't hit as hard...despite a few good songs, I just don't get the feeling that she's in control of the material she's singing, particularly the covers, maybe because so much of the material itself is weak).
― nameom (nameom), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 20:04 (7 years ago) Permalink
Anyway, Lindsay's musical personality in "First" was strong enough to jar me in its difference from the character she played in Herbie: Fully Loaded. Not that personality is everything. I don't think Kelly Clarkson's musical personality is anywhere near as strong as Lindsay's, but I think she made an (even) better album. (Didn't think so at first, by the way.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 30 March 2006 01:49 (7 years ago) Permalink
Not that a cross between Shooter and Lindsay wouldn't be worth something...
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 30 March 2006 02:12 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 30 March 2006 02:41 (7 years ago) Permalink
"1.) superstition is not a religion.
"2.) one time I saw a guy getting a BJ in the car next to me on the freeway. and I was with my parents.
"3.) my electric blanket is on.
"4.) In This Hole by Cat Power makes me cry everytime.
"5.) I took 7 tylenols once. it was a really bad headache.
"6.) a boy needs to come home"
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 30 March 2006 02:45 (7 years ago) Permalink
Btw, I wish that someone here with better fashion sense than I (and that would be almost anyone who posts here) would say something about Ashlee's various magazine-cover appearances over the last few months: Cosmopolitan, Seventeen, Elle, and Jane. She's endeavored not to look remotely similar on any of them.
Also would like to know what you make of the various photos in the I Am Me CD booklet.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 30 March 2006 02:52 (7 years ago) Permalink
― nameom (nameom), Thursday, 30 March 2006 02:57 (7 years ago) Permalink
Ashlee seems to have a pretty sharp sense of humor about her music (the "LIKE YOU" bit in "I Am Me" is gold!), I imagine she gets a kick out of those ultra-posed pics. Skye is maybe more transparent about which songs she's "in" on.
Can't comment on fashion, as I have none.
― nameom (nameom), Thursday, 30 March 2006 03:12 (7 years ago) Permalink
Whereas I think it's a bit of a truism about adolescence that we don't necessarily feel like there is some stable concept of ourselves that we can point to and say "that is what I am". "I am me" in this sense doesn't necessarily mean "I am this singular thing". Rather, it can mean "I am not prepared to a conform to a singular thing outside of myself; I refuse to play by other people's rules". The "me" in "I Am Me" stands in for the inadequacy of any other word to "cover the field" in describing what "i am..."
The incongruent (as in, compared to one another) setpiece shots in the CD booklet might in this sense be a tongue-in-cheek elucidation of the album title rather than an attempt to undermine it; their incommensurability bearing witness to Ashlee's sense of internal fracturedness.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 30 March 2006 04:20 (7 years ago) Permalink
That seems more reasonable. I wonder how the cover (and maybe album) might be received simply as I Am... "I am me" is definitely a statement worthy of further analysis...the "to be or not to be" of teen pop?
― nameom (nameom), Thursday, 30 March 2006 04:53 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Thursday, 30 March 2006 13:09 (7 years ago) Permalink
1. lily allan (u.k. i guess?) "LDN"2. wir sind helden (germany) "von hier an blind"3. aly & aj (u.s.a. i guess?) "rush" (this reminds of joshua clover i think it was calling beth orton's song with the chemical brothers i think it was a cross between fairport convention and silver convention, except this blows anything by beth orton out of the water)4. mahsar (iran) "vase chi"5. tinchy stryder f. wiley (u.k.?) "uptown girl"6. cansei de ser sexy (brazil) "let's make love and listen death from above" (a reference to how skye likes death from above 1979 these days?)7. light beat (tunisia) "nhary liel"8. amy diamond (sweden) "what's in it for me"9. saian supa crew (france) "la patte"10. dx7 (spain) "el plan semanal"
(and even that #10 one is pretty good, i admit)
― xhuxk, Thursday, 30 March 2006 14:20 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Thursday, 30 March 2006 14:48 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Thursday, 30 March 2006 14:51 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Thursday, 30 March 2006 15:05 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Thursday, 30 March 2006 15:10 (7 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, this is part of it. Though what was that Hilary Duff song I mentioned way upthread? "Wake Up"? Is that more disco in my memory (or my memory of its video, anyway) than in its actual sound? I forget.
>wouldn't "L.O.V.E." count as r&b, albeit more Gwen than Teena?<
Yeah, I'll buy that. And also more Led Zeppelin than Teena, right?
― xhuxk, Thursday, 30 March 2006 15:24 (7 years ago) Permalink
http://cdbaby.com/cd/mckee
― xhuxk, Thursday, 30 March 2006 15:43 (7 years ago) Permalink
http://cdbaby.com/cd/hollistunes
― xhuxk, Thursday, 30 March 2006 16:15 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Thursday, 30 March 2006 16:27 (7 years ago) Permalink
Well, if the story's true, Kelly C. told Max Martin to redo "Since U Been Gone" with more drums and more guitars, which in the abstract could easily equate to "afraid to be too catchy," even if it actually amounted to an insanely catchy song, and that could very well have been why Kelly did it. But it's more likely that catchy didn't enter into it. I see what chuck's saying, but my suspicion is that the textures they're going with are just more appealing to their ears--they're not as dense, not as showy. Certainly in the case of Robyn the road to indie leads not away from pop but through Neptunes-y / Prince-y (hip-hop-y?) minimalism. But someone should probably interview Ashlee or someone and ask, if they haven't already (I don't keep up enough).
― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 30 March 2006 16:39 (7 years ago) Permalink
The songs are solid, and more significantly there are three of them even though the show's only aired once. The show's theme is already climbing up the RD Top 30.
Soon she'll probably be credited under her real name. I'm pretty sure that Miley Cyrus has a deal with Hollywood Records in addition to "Hannah's" soundtrack on Disney.
From YouTube: Best of Both Worlds, Who Said, and This Is the Life
― nameom (nameom), Thursday, 30 March 2006 16:51 (7 years ago) Permalink
I guess part of what I'm saying is that I wish teen-pop now had a little more "Pour Some Sugar on Me" or "Talk Dirty to Me," a little less "Love Bites" and "Every Rose Has Its Thorn." Does that make sense to anybody? Is it my imagination, or are most teen-pop hits *power ballads*?
― xhuxk, Thursday, 30 March 2006 16:57 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 30 March 2006 16:58 (7 years ago) Permalink
I think that using new wave as the mediation point can make even the sillier material (like "Wake Up") seem oddly serious or earnest, in the sense of "this could be on one of the The O.C. soundtracks." It's that implied "soundtrack to adolescent life" vibe that comes off this stuff in waves. Something about "Wake Up", for example, announces, "Yes, I am a silly, fluffy, inconsequential song, but in the right time and place I could change your life."
Whereas with freestyle-pop, for example, it certainly can change your life, but it does so without necessarily announcing that possibility in advance.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 30 March 2006 20:56 (7 years ago) Permalink
The Ataris.
― Zwan (miccio), Friday, 31 March 2006 01:47 (7 years ago) Permalink
Humorful: Lindsay Lohan, Ashlee Simpson, Skye Sweetnam, Brie Larson, Marit Larsen, Robyn
I can't tell if she's being funny or not: Hilary Duff, Hope Partlow
Funny in her remake of "These Boots Are Made for Walkin": Jessica Simpson
I forget if they're funny: Aly & AJ
They probably think they're funnier than I do: Veronicas, Bon Jovi, Morningwood, Crazy Frog, Pink
Person who would do an amazingly great version of "Pour Some Sugar On Me": Ashlee Simpson (remember Xhuxk, I'm the one who says that there is a lot of Mutt Lange in John Shanks); "La La" seems very Joan Jett (but better); Ashlee's Deborah Allan disco-slut imitation during the "You make me feel like fire/Is this love, or just desire" break in "Burnin Up" is (1) an approach to disco by way of disco, (2) an extravagant bit of scenery chewing, (3) brilliant, (4) hilarious. It's exhibit 1 in my case for Ashlee playing dressup on I Am Me (of course every dance* song that contains a line such as "You make me feel like fire" is scenery chewing).
Although "Burnin Up" has a dub reggae arrangement, its main vocal melody is a sexy itchy vocal descent that sounds not at all like reggae but rather like "Habañera" from Carmen. It too is fun(ny).
*Not to mention nondance songs like Courtney Love's Robert Plant imitation on her (great) "Life Despite God": "Run away, your head's on fire/Can't tell the difference between hate and desire"; this too is a great bit of scenery chewing, even if it isn't disco.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 31 March 2006 04:59 (7 years ago) Permalink
I once gave a teacher the lyrics to "I Am a Rock" as an example of great song lyrics. But I was only 14 or 15. Since girls mature faster than boys, you'd think Brie's "I Am a Rock" phase would have ended a couple of years ago.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 31 March 2006 05:05 (7 years ago) Permalink
NOT FUNNY. "I Am One of Them" to thread!
Brie's "I Am a Rock" phase would have ended a couple of years ago.
True, but I still haven't read any Henry Miller. Something to be said for a girl who claims to spend $60 on books in one go (w/ no mention of CDs, DVDs, etc). Also, is any of the new Lindsay humorous at all? Dahv has been mentioned before...
― nameom (nameom), Friday, 31 March 2006 05:40 (7 years ago) Permalink
However....
>there is a lot of Mutt Lange in John Shanks<
...reminds me that Mutt produced Def Lep's power ballads, as well. So I still stand by my claim that too much teenpop is just way too slow (and also too "emotional," which is often not better than being fun.)
― xhuxk, Friday, 31 March 2006 15:02 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 31 March 2006 15:39 (7 years ago) Permalink
What a DORK! That guy in the church band -- the drummer to be exact. He is way into me. I know it!! But all he does is look. Well I got sick of waiting for him to say something.
So right before the Youth Group tonight, I just walked up to him. I said -- Hey. We should hang out. You're in a band -- I need a band. (Plus I heard that some guys like girls that can approach them...guess he didn't.) He said, "I have to go pray now." ...all I could say was Amen!
I'll just take that one as a compliment. TOO BAD!!! Nobody can figure that guy out!
― nameom (nameom), Friday, 31 March 2006 20:34 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 31 March 2006 20:45 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 31 March 2006 20:46 (7 years ago) Permalink
'LDN' is getting its official release as a 7"-only single on April 24th. Also, for excitable New Yorkers, Lily will be DJ'ing on http://www.eastvillageradio.com between 8-10 tonight, your time.
Popjustice has been getting in a lather this week about the respective returns of Siobhan Wot Used To Be In Sugababes and Alesha Wot Used To Be In Mis-Teeq. In both cases, they have a point.
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Friday, 31 March 2006 21:18 (7 years ago) Permalink
From Ireland, was on Regal, may still be. Myspace heeee-yah.
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Friday, 31 March 2006 22:31 (7 years ago) Permalink
Liking those Pennsy cdbaby new wave-synthed teen-rock disco-metallers Hollis more than I expected, especially ("Chemical," "Waiting," "Better Day," "Fade," "Automatic") when they can the gnu-metal shtick and let their girl Holly get her Patty Smythe and maybe Benatar on. "Fade" has '80s Bryan Adams riffs, and I can actually imagine people moving their thing to "Move That Thing," the song that quotes "Into the Groove". "Torn & Broken" and "Keep Me Down", where they try to act tougher, aren't quite so fun. But thumbs up regardless.
― xhuxk, Saturday, 1 April 2006 19:36 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Eppy (Eppy), Saturday, 1 April 2006 20:02 (7 years ago) Permalink
Also curious if Devo 2.0 are being played on Radio Disney given that the album was released by Disney. They're not in the Top 30.
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 2 April 2006 06:09 (7 years ago) Permalink
I suspect Disney labels get special treatment in being added to the general playlist (ex. "Hannah" was never actually voted into rotation), but Devo 2.0 seems to live or die by the two-step voting process like everyone else. The kidz still get their new wave from Hilary Duff.
― nameom (nameom), Sunday, 2 April 2006 06:48 (7 years ago) Permalink
But I love every song on the album. If I'd heard it last year it probably would have been my third favourite of the year (I like it much more than Autobiography actually, though maybe that's because I heard it first so it hit me harder). I even love the powerballad "Say Goodbye", which has some awesome lyrics:
"Maybe/you don't/love me/like I/love you/baby/'cos the broken in you doesn't make me run"
Something about that line is so ace, maybe it's that it drags out the simple first part so much, then all the meaning is actually so tightly compressed in the second half.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 3 April 2006 06:08 (7 years ago) Permalink
Yep, there's been some, Tim; search above!
― xhuxk, Monday, 3 April 2006 12:03 (7 years ago) Permalink
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 3 April 2006 12:12 (7 years ago) Permalink
that's so awesome.
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 3 April 2006 14:23 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 5 April 2006 16:09 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 5 April 2006 16:43 (7 years ago) Permalink
They're streaming a couple of Platinum Weird songs on their myspace page; I've been patient enough to get beyond the rebuffering (sometimes this works, sometimes not). "Avalanche" sounds great. Stewart's putting a bit more Keith Richards in the guitar than Shanks would have, but basically this could have come right off the first Lohan album. But I dont think Kara holds the stage as well as Lohan (nor close to as well as Ashlee). Tell me what you think.
The words here support my belief that there's no way this woman is writing Ashlee's lyrics for her. Not that the lyrics are bad. They're good, just as "First" and "Come Clean" are good. "And I breathe, and I sleep, and I wait for a _____/And I lie, and I learn how to live in the hurt/And I'm on the run/Look what I've become/So many nights I've heard you talking to light (?) about the promise land(?)/Oh your promises/So many times you never walked towards the light into your promises/Oh your promise land (?) doesn't stand, can't hold back the avalanche/So I laugh 'cause I dream, and to dream is for fools/When I'm up high it all looks up because I can't see the clouds above me and I can't hear the cries below me/We go around, I'm fading out/And I'm on the run, look what I've become/There's no turning back, I'm giving up everything I've had/So many nights I've heard you talking to light..." Sorry, this is no match for "I was stuck inside someone else's life and always second best" - doesn't speak to the broken in me nearly as well.
(Of course, maybe Stewart wrote these lyrics. And maybe Shanks plays guitar.)
Anyway, it's not remotely trying to sound like 1974, that I can tell.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 5 April 2006 18:01 (7 years ago) Permalink
I can imagine that in real life Kelly Clarkson has a sense of humor. In fact, she does a swell job in the "Since U Been Gone" video, putting a sly look on her face as she's disassembling her ex's love nest. And her voice certainly has a nice lift in "Since U Been Gone" and "Walk Away." Still, after listening several hours nonstop to Kelly and Avril's "Unwanted" and Evanescence's everything, as I was often doing several months ago (to check out the similarities and because I was obsessed), it was hard not to run screaming to my Lohan and Simpson records afterwards, saying to myself, "At last, someone whose told a joke in her life."
Marion Raven had some great lines in M2M that I'd describe as "intentionally funny" - esp. "Jennifer" about the guy's girlfriend (whom she's immensely jealous of) having skin like porcelain and shame on him if he should hurt her, but you know, wouldn't it be nice if someone would drop her (for all I know Marit wrote that, but Marion is ace the way she delivers the line); also, Marion's lines in "Give a Little Love" - I quoted some of Marit's above - include her hilarious part instructions to the guy to "get down on your knees/I'm the one you have to please." So as I listen more to Here I Am maybe some such lines will emerge as well. But the sound of Here I Am is so heavy; there are some great pop melodies but - I never thought I'd say this - the songs rock too hard a lot of the time, and there's so much orchestration and passion that they come drenched in the weight of several oceans. This isn't really a criticism, just an explanation of why, when the album's done playing, I'm not replaying it incessantly but rather diving for my Hampton the Hamster records (of which I have none, hence I usually bonk my head on the wall).
The three singles from the Marion Raven album are great (if over-orchestrated). Strangely, the only album track I really dislike is her duet with the generally likable Art Alexakis.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 5 April 2006 18:36 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 5 April 2006 18:43 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 5 April 2006 18:45 (7 years ago) Permalink
By the way, the band is letting you download the song ("Avalanche")from their myspace page. Free Mp3s!
So, aren't any of you curious? I mean, if Richard Rodgers had sung lead in a band, or Ellie Greenwich had, wouldn't you want to hear it? Come on, this is KARA DIOGUARDI, folks.
(Actually, Ellie Greenwich did put out records with her singing lead: the group was the Raindrops. "The Kind of Boy You Can't Forget" made it to #17 in 1963. I've never heard it, but I have heard a couple of other Raindrops tracks (one of 'em, "What a Guy," I've got on an old, beat-up cassette) which are nice but don't have the zing of the Ronettes, the Shangri-Las, the Crystals, the Jelly Beans, or Darlene Love. The Raindrops recorded the first version of "Hanky Panky." I'd love to hear that.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 6 April 2006 00:41 (7 years ago) Permalink
Here I am at the family functiononce again I tend to bite my nails and sit aloneWhile the folks are getting tipsy with their Absolut and mixed drinks.Oh my god, this always happens every yearMy aunt runs off with a waiter serving caviarimported from Belugaand I think that he was too.There's only 1 thing left to do
Pass the Shirley Temple...
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 6 April 2006 00:58 (7 years ago) Permalink
I agree. Ashlee's fundamentally earnest, which doesn't mean that there isn't a lot that's really witty.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 6 April 2006 01:02 (7 years ago) Permalink
Yes. See my previous 50 posts on the subject. She spends most of "Fastlane" winking at the sound man. On "I Want You to Want Me" she does the vocal equivalent of playing air guitar. On "Who Loves You?" she's plastering the room in so much ham that pigs are picketing outside the studio.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 6 April 2006 01:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 6 April 2006 01:27 (7 years ago) Permalink
"Daddy daddy/ Why'd you break your promises to me?/ ...I’m not the little girl you left waiting at home/ All the hurt and pain you left with mom and me/ Why can’t I be angry?"
Going into a chorus that's less paranoid than "Because of You" and more poetic than most of Lindsay's angst stuff -- maybe a mid point between Kelly and Ashlee's earnest I Am Me ballads, or at least worthy of being compared to those two:
"And I want you to know that I didn’t need you anyway/ And this rope that we walk on is swaying/ And the ties that bind us/ They will never ever fray/ But I want for you to know/ You are/ You are/ Unforgiven" (x-post)
― nameom (nameom), Thursday, 6 April 2006 01:29 (7 years ago) Permalink
(OK, I need to listen to this one again...) Forgot to mention that the Dobson track is also very aggressive -- "UNFORGIVEN" is like a group chant.
― nameom (nameom), Thursday, 6 April 2006 01:32 (7 years ago) Permalink
She seems like the anti-Marit, right?
So what does "Clean and Neat" sound like? Like Marit, without the '50s carny cabaret. Like Marit but spikier.
Well, anyway, a high cheery playful voice, going into fake primitive power pop. The drums seem to be doing the drum equivalent of oompah. The guitar strum goes strum strum strum strum. Quite likable. Quite. I can hear how someone might think she's doing pop year zero, like the first two Modern Lovers albums. Prob'ly too old (25) to claim to be teenpop, but I'd like someone to try and sneak this onto Radio Disney. RD is playing the shit out of the Tashbed, after all, so they could like this, though I don't know if they'd find the primitiveness too primitive to fit their sound.
Oh yeah, the sound is bright and pushy, whereas the lyrics are [to tell you the truth, I didn't pay attention to the lyrics].
(Damn, I'm going to have to listen to some Bjork, so that I won't be a complete ignoramus.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 6 April 2006 03:02 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 6 April 2006 03:05 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:22 (7 years ago) Permalink
You might find the same thing true in comparing country lyrics to pretty much any noncountry genre (except maybe to calypso or to rappers who make a big deal of place names and of course to this or that particular performer who casts himself as a storyteller: Craig Finn or Bruce Springsteen): country will give you place names, car brands, and a whole bunch of other social markers, will specify that a love note is written on a luncheonette napkin. I talked about this a bit in my Rodney Atkins/Lee Greenwood review. This doesn't necessarily make country lyrics better, or even more detailed. Just differently detailed. Marit and Ashlee give you plenty of psychological details in their songs. Marit has one where the woman wears makeup to bed, but she doesn't tell you anything about the house or furnishings.
"She Loves You" and "Be My Baby" don't have place locations and the like, but it isn't as if they're missing something.
(And of course Ashlee goes "Hollywood sucks you in but it won't spit me out" in "Boyfriend.")
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 6 April 2006 19:25 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 6 April 2006 19:28 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 6 April 2006 19:38 (7 years ago) Permalink
Well, this isn't fair to DioGuardi. Just because she vagues out in one song doesn't mean that she can't do songs where she doesn't vague out. But there's just such a difference between the lyrics you're getting on Ashlee Simpson albums and those you're getting from anything else DioGuardi's involved in. I guess it's just that I'm greatly disappointed in "Avalanche" even though I think it's a very good song. Here's my first sight and sound of Kara DioGuardi unfettered, a great talent, speaking through herself and for herself, and what I'm hearing is a first-rate melody but vague words about cries and clouds and broken promises, and a voice that's got volume and sings well but doesn't come across with a character.
Maybe it is Kara who came up with "Maybe/you don't/love me/like I/love you/baby/'cos the broken in you doesn't make me run." Maybe it was Ashlee who drew it out of her. Maybe Kara drew it out of Ashlee.
The reason I said the song could have come off the first Lohan album is that the vocal "phrasing" in "Avalanche" - by which I don't mean words but hesitations, wails, and such, the basic stuff of vocalizing - reminds me a lot more of Lindsay's than of Ashlee's (or of Gwen's or Celine's or Hilary's). My guess here is that Lindsay copies her phrasing from Kara's demos. But Lindsay gives the phrasing more life than Kara is able to give to "Avalanche."
Again, I'd like to know what you guys think.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 6 April 2006 20:17 (7 years ago) Permalink
The song being Platinum Weird's "Avalanche," not Ashlee's "Say Goodbye," though it was the latter that I had just quoted. Sorry to be so confusing.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 6 April 2006 20:21 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Je4nn3 Æ’urÂ¥ (Je4nne Fury), Thursday, 6 April 2006 20:57 (7 years ago) Permalink
Anyway, Je4nn3, now that I've got you here, I've been meaning to post this quote from Ashlee's Elle interview (and I'm desperate for more insights into her various photo transformations as well):
Elle: Growing up in the Dallas suburbs with Jessica, was there ever any sibling rivalry; times when you hated her?
Ashlee: We never, ever really fought. I used to wear her clothes, and they would stink and have holes. Little things. There were times when I was insecure, but not because of my sister. I was a weird-looking little kid for a while. And her world of high school and stuff I did not want to be part of. I was a ballerina with ballerina friends, and we thought cheerleaders were stupid. I was Miss Artsy Fartsy.
(And maybe it's time for me to finally post about "Shadow," but probably not today.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 6 April 2006 21:50 (7 years ago) Permalink
Lily's "LDN" is definitely in competition with "Rush" and "4ever" as my single of the year so far.
(And yes, Matt, I realize that if I'd been 11 and with it, "Rush" would have made my ballot last year; but it's video only came out this year, so it counts this year on my P&J ballot, yes it does.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 6 April 2006 22:00 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Je4nn3 Æ’urÂ¥ (Je4nne Fury), Friday, 7 April 2006 13:43 (7 years ago) Permalink
It's really you but no one ever discovers
Those of so foolish as not to haunt the teenpop thread may be unaware that Miley and her dad Billy Ray have a TV show, in which - I gather from the theme song, which is all TV-less me knows of it - by day she's a regular middle-schooler, but at night she twirls around like Sailor Moon and takes on a SECRET IDENTITY as a... as a... well, you'll just have to look for yourself.
The theme song's OK, likable enough, not grebt.
-- Frank Kogan, April 9th, 2006.
Agreed, I like one of the other ones ("Who Said") better. I tried watching one of the episodes on YouTube with limited success (surprise, it's cute), but what IS significant about this is that "Hannah Montana" is the highest rated show in Disney Channel history (I'd be interested to see how it compares to High School Musical; Hannah got something like 5.4 mil viewers last week, though.)
They seem to show clips of songs, but not full songs, at the beginning or end of each show, previewing one new track per show with the goal of putting out an "official soundtrack" by the summer.
Last thing: Brie Larson just wrote what I'm pretty sure is her first indie rock song. Available for download at her Myspace page.
― nameom (nameom), Sunday, 9 April 2006 00:01 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 9 April 2006 03:44 (7 years ago) Permalink
"Don't Go" - Bratcutepunk sort of halfway between Gwen and Jo Jo(maybe even some Lene Lovich), though with a tough cuteness, or a cute toughness. A toughness that'll punch you pink.
"Unforgiven" - Hey, here we are, splits the difference between Lindsay Lohan and Stacey Mosley - neither of whom had made a record when this came out. So let's say it's Evanescence (or whatever ur-pop-teengoth Rosetta Stone I've yet to find) backing and arranging Avril, adding gangshouts. Also, occasionally, a real pretty plinky-dink that could come from disco or from Lee Van Cleef's sister's locket in For a Few Dollars More. Kicks butt.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 9 April 2006 04:08 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 9 April 2006 04:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
Also got B.G. Tha Heart of tha Streetz Vol. 1. As with the other two CDs, I'll report on whether the vocalist on this one most resembles Lacey or Marit.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 9 April 2006 04:19 (7 years ago) Permalink
― don, Sunday, 9 April 2006 05:12 (7 years ago) Permalink
― don, Sunday, 9 April 2006 05:36 (7 years ago) Permalink
― don, Sunday, 9 April 2006 05:40 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Sunday, 9 April 2006 17:57 (7 years ago) Permalink
Or it might be that your judgement is better than mine, which is hardly unlikely. (Have I mentioned recently that I love these threads? They're almost all I read on ILM.)
― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 9 April 2006 18:31 (7 years ago) Permalink
"Asked how she would describe herself, Aliana rolled her eyes and replied, 'Funny.'
"'People laugh at me -- like my jokes, not personally at me,' she said.
"Her sister is known for her on-screen wit, Aliana said. But watch out. 'Lindsay's not as funny as me,' Aliana added with a smirk."
. . .
"Diana Lohan, who studied with the American Ballet Theater under Mikhail Baryshnikov, has apparently mastered the art of stage mother. She said she had been positioning Aliana to follow Lindsay's 'it' girl trajectory.
"'She's on the track, basically,' Ms. Lohan said, discounting the pitfalls of fame that have dogged Lindsay. . ."
"Recently Aliana was at Tainted Blue studios in Manhattan finishing up her debut solo album with Chris Christian, chief executive of World Digital Media Group and a producer, singer and songwriter who has worked with Elvis Presley, Olivia Newton-John and Sheena Easton."
― Sang Freud (jeff_s), Sunday, 9 April 2006 18:50 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Sunday, 9 April 2006 19:21 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Sunday, 9 April 2006 19:56 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 9 April 2006 20:32 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Sunday, 9 April 2006 20:44 (7 years ago) Permalink
from the rolling metal (!?) thread:
This new Bananarama album is weirdly joyless. Their old stuff always sounded like they were having fun, on the brink of cracking each other up. This new one is all cyborg-y, like Kylie Minogue's last one (but not nearly as good as that).-- pdf (newyorkisno...), March 9th, 2006.i hate to say it, phil, but the last really good bananarama album was pop life. the disco album after that with the cover of more, more, more wasn't that hot, and the album with every shade of blue wasn't that great either.-- scott seward (skotro...), March 9th, 2006.pop life even had some metallic moments and was produced by youth of killing joke. and of course it had that ace doobie brothers cover of long train runnin'.-- scott seward (skotro...), March 9th, 2006.Well, I haven't paid attention to them in years - I never even heard them after Siobhan Fahey left. So this direction (which appears, after a quick visit to AMG, to be one they've been pursuing for some years now) is new to me, and thus more disappointing than it probably should be.-- pdf (newyorkisno...), March 9th, 2006.
― xhuxk, Sunday, 9 April 2006 22:33 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Jimmy Mod: My theme is DEATH (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Sunday, 9 April 2006 23:29 (7 years ago) Permalink
― don, Monday, 10 April 2006 02:43 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 10 April 2006 05:37 (7 years ago) Permalink
(1) I love "My Humps," which perhaps says more about me than about the song. (Well, actually, I love "My Humps" when teenagers play the ringtone in order to annoy nearby adults, even or especially when I'm one of the adults.)
(2) I have played Fefe Dobson's "Unforgiven" 30 times in the last 36 hours. (I think I was asleep the other six.)
(3) Je4nn3 (and the rest of you), I posted Ashlee's Elle quote not so much because it pertains to Ashlee and Jess but because it pertains to Pink's "Stupid Girls." That is, it's Pink who's the arsy-fartsy still trying to differentiate herself from Ashlee's sister and types like that, and doing it by calling them stupid. (Of course, Pink's being a little more complex than that, but still...) Also posted the Ashlee quote because it pertains to social categories, and because it's smart.
(4) Sang Freud, nice to see you back.
(5) I don't have the interview in front of me, but Dina Lohan told Seventeen that when Aliana, who's naturally thin, goes to school, kids will come up to her and say, "You're anorexic like your sister." Not fun. Also said that when Lindsay tries for a part she finds she has to spend several hours with the producer and director convincing them that she's not a drug addict and doesn't have eating disorders.
(6) The Björk soundtrack for Drawing Restraint 9 probably is out of judging range for me, since my guess is that the music makes more sense accompanied by visuals. Slow moving sounds, repeated with slight variations. I think to listen to it most profitably I'd have to do it like meditating, concentrating on sounds, returning to the sound. Rather than daydreaming, which of course is what I did. Anyway, the parts that had her voice didn't remind me much of either Marit or Lacey, but the voice is a lot closer to Marit's than to Lacey's. Oh yeah, and unlike Marit or Lacey, the soundtrack bored me silly, but as I said, maybe there's a way to use it well.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 10 April 2006 14:04 (7 years ago) Permalink
Back in my New York days I had a good friend who'd grown up in horrific family circumstances. She told me that when she was a little girl, age five or so, and would complain about something, her mother would turn to her and say, "What if you had no legs?"
So, this is from Pink's Seventeen interview:
17: Have you ever been a stupid girl?
Pink: I've always been. I'm a stupid girl every other day. I'm still a stupid girl. I made that song because I don't want to be in that struggle anymore. I gotta break the chain.
17: How do you do that?
Pink I visit children's hospitals and see 6-year-olds with cancer. I see girls who say "I wish I had legs at all." Let alone [worry about] fat legs...
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 10 April 2006 14:15 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Je4nn3 Æ’urÂ¥ (Je4nne Fury), Monday, 10 April 2006 14:20 (7 years ago) Permalink
Covais, from the one or two times I saw him on the show, is utterly loathesome, one of those "old songs are better than new songs!" kinda guys. His contrariness comes off less punk-rock and more conservative, and his fans have a similar creepiness to Clay Aiken's "Vanilla Revolution" partisans. If he acheives stardom I can only assume it will involve Branson, MO prominently.
― Eppy (Eppy), Monday, 10 April 2006 14:22 (7 years ago) Permalink
― nameom (nameom), Monday, 10 April 2006 18:30 (7 years ago) Permalink
KARA DIGUARDIO WRITES A COUPLE OF THEIR SONGS OMG
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 14 April 2006 12:37 (7 years ago) Permalink
(Interestingly Launch Yahoo just played "I Don't Care" by ex-boyband idol Ricky Martin; it was a Latin hit last year that deserved to have crossed over big in U.S. pop but didn't; strong Latin wail 'n' moan with some late '80s r&b girlsex interspersed as percussion and condiment.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 14 April 2006 14:24 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 14 April 2006 14:26 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 14 April 2006 14:52 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Grey, Ian (IanBrooklyn), Friday, 14 April 2006 21:11 (7 years ago) Permalink
― don, Friday, 14 April 2006 22:16 (7 years ago) Permalink
im not sure if this counts as teenpop really, but i have no idea where to place it. 30 something woman who cant get over high school?
― mts (theoreticalgirl), Saturday, 15 April 2006 18:37 (7 years ago) Permalink
Q: why are you so spectacular? A: i took classes from lindsay lohan. but they involved drugs and drinking, so I failed.
Q: Are you excited about turning 17 this year? A: i'm more excited about not turning 16.
Q: Where do you get the inspiration to be a song-writer and by being an artist (design)? A: i dont get inspiration. I dont really know why I write about certain things, or why I dont write about certain things. I dont really "write" about anything. its all pish posh.
― nameom (nameom), Monday, 17 April 2006 18:41 (7 years ago) Permalink
― nameom (nameom), Monday, 17 April 2006 18:42 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 17 April 2006 19:26 (7 years ago) Permalink
The tracklist goes 1. Gwen Stefani "Hollaback Girl" 2. Kelly Clarkson "Because of You" 3. Ciara f. Missy Elliott "1,2 Step" 4. Mario "Let Me Love You" 5. Natasha Bedingfield "These Words (I Love You, I Love You)" 6. Weezer "Perfect Situation" 7. Simple Plan "Shut Up" (live) 8. Relient K "Be My Escape" 9. Saving Jane "Girl Next Door" 10. Emma Roberts "I Wanna Be" 11. Howie Day "Collide" 12. Gavin DeGraw "Follow Through" 13. Backstreet Boys "Incomplete" 14. Carrie Underwood "Inside Your Heaven" 15. Frankie J "Don't Wanna Try" 16. Ryan Cabrera "Shine On" 17. Switchfoot "Stars" 18. Franz Ferdinand "Do You Want To."
Anyway, one-third of the way in, we run suddenly into a batch of songs that I'd previously heard rarely or not at all. These are my thoughts:
Simple Plan "Shut Up" (live) - Good hard-rocking adenoidal bratboy bubblepunk. The harmonies thrill me to my teeth, the adenoid voices make me grit my teeth. Nice roar, and when they're sensitive they're better than when they're adenoidal. They've got a nice lift, may be nicer than Green Day's, but Green Day doesn't irritate me nearly as much.
Relient K "Be My Escape" - Good strong rock riff at the start, which the track then flees, clearing out the space for sensitive boy vocals and nice harmonies. Likable, I suppose, but still, I'm trying to figure out what is it with boys these days, why they don't sing nearly as well as girls. Why are boys either defensively whiny or stupidly sappy?
Saving Jane "Girl Next Door" - See above.
Emma Roberts "I Wanna Be" - Nice bubblepunk start, 8 fast beats per measure on the guitar. The voice is really young, which seems to be its main characteristic. "I want my life to be more than a journey into nowhere." Needs a better song. And a more interesting voice. Maybe she'll grow one.
Howie Day "Collide" - This is terrible. Boy sensitive. The voice... Is he a Ryan Cabrera imitator? But Ryan has a beautiful voice, whereas... wait, this guy just sang "I somehow found you and I." Aagh! Make it stop. (Oh, yeah, this is a CD so I can make it stop.)
Gavin DeGraw "Follow Through" - I think I've heard this before. The melody is not so bad; the voice is inflexible, but its inflexibility may give this a bit of dignity. And maybe ths melody is so bad. It's not fair that this stuff corners the market on sensitivity. Not horrible, I suppose.
Switchfoot "Stars" - The name Switchfoot seems so familiar, as if they're a majorly popular band that I've just never managed to hear. (However, if I were novelist needing to invent a name for a fictional Majorly Popular Mainstream Rock Band, "Switchfoot" would be the sort of name I'd choose.) The singer manages to be strained yet blah. The harmony is not altogether terrible. "Everyone feels so lonely, everyone feels so empty, but when I look at the stars I feel like myself." Um. The melody has its pleasing moments, but the lyrics achieve a sublimity of badness that I, were I to be a novelist, would be proud to place in any fictional bands' mouth. How come nobody ever told me about this? "Stars looking at a planet/Watchin' entropy and pain/And maybe start to wonder how the chaos in our lives/Can pass as sane/I've been thinking of the meaning of resistance/Of a world beyond my own/And suddenly the infinite and the penitent/Begin to look like home."
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 17 April 2006 20:30 (7 years ago) Permalink
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 17 April 2006 21:04 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 20 April 2006 18:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
It has an inexplicable tendency to get them laid.
― Je4nn3 ƒur¥ (Je4nne Fury), Thursday, 20 April 2006 19:59 (7 years ago) Permalink
― don, Friday, 21 April 2006 03:34 (7 years ago) Permalink
Keith Harris REALLY likes "Stars." I've seen him sing it in his car on the way to a Beck concert.
― Zwan (miccio), Friday, 21 April 2006 04:29 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Zwan (miccio), Friday, 21 April 2006 04:32 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 21 April 2006 19:28 (7 years ago) Permalink
"Oh your promised land doesn't stand/Can't hold back the avalanche."
And the Ashlee line (from "Say Goodbye"):
"Maybe you don't/Love me/Like I love you baby/'Cause the broken in you doesn't make me run."
The Platinum Weird line is just far too vague, whereas the Ashlee line is utterly wonderful. Yet when I look at them, I realize that the Ashlee line is at least as abstract as the Platinum Weird. So why does the Ashlee line work so much better?
(Btw, for those of you just tuning in, Platinum Weird is Dave Stewart and Kara DioGuardi, and the forthcoming album is produced by John Shanks; and Shanks and DioGuardi are listed as co-writers (along w/ Ashlee Simpson) of "Say Goodbye" and everything else on Ashlee's I Am Me, and many of the songs on Ashlee's Autobiography.)
I do like "Your promised land doesn't stand/Can't hold back the avalanche," the idea of a fantasy or a promise or a dream being knocked down and swept away by an avalanche (the avalanche being reality I suppose, life, or Kara's anger, or something). It's an ambitious image. But it needs something else in the song, some story for the metaphor to hook onto - promise of what? which dreamland? for the metaphor to sum up. Whereas "Maybe you don't/Love me/Like I love you/'Cause the broken in you doesn't make me run" is a story in itself. It feels archetypal, like "The King died, the Queen died of grief." For all its abstractness, "the broken in you" is an image that I can immediately attach my experience to. Or maybe not my experience, just the image of Ashlee willing to wrap her arms around a man in his brokenness. As for promises and dreams not holding back the avalanche of events - my mind gets it but doesn't bring any feelings or experience to add to it.
I realize that my explanation here doesn't explain...
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 21 April 2006 20:32 (7 years ago) Permalink
Tim, interestingly enough, a couple of days before you posted that I was listening to "Say Goodbye," a song I'd tended to pass over, and the "broken in you" line hit me hard; and what I said to myself was, "Here's a line from the second album that feels like a lot of the first album."
I'd heard the second album first too, didn't buy Autobiography until I was basically done with my review of I Am Me. I'd heard the three singles from the first, only really concentrated on "La La." When I finally did hear Autobiography, my jaw dropped at the title song, the two singles I'd ignored ("Pieces of Me" and "Shadow") suddenly hit me as really powerful - in fact tracks one through four were a knockout, "Autobiography" followed by the three singles - and a few tracks farther I found another song to adore, "Love Me For Me." But I did feel that, overall, I Am Me had a stronger sound, despite Autobiography having a rougher, rawer guitar. In fact, I decided that on "La La" - which I still think is her best song - both she and Shanks are pushing too hard, trying to be too rough and tough. Whereas on I Am Me - e.g., rockers such as the title track and "Coming Back For More" - the sound was a lot cleaner and the singing more at ease without losing an iota of force. And back on Autobiography the rawer guitar sound was also applied to the ballads at the backend. And the combo - guitar roar and ballads - seemed wearying.
Anyhow, at some point something shifted in the way I heard it. And this isn't because my analysis above is wrong; maybe just my ears remixed the songs in my head. I'd played my five favorites from Autobiography into the ground and was now going on to the others, and I was hearing through the roar to the melodies and the words, or the roar now had rearranged itself and didn't seem like a roar. Hard to say why you like one thing more than another, but Autobiography ends up - at least for now - having more tunes that grab me and more words that make me feel.
This is relative. I love both albums. The difference is really this: Listening to I Am Me, I fell in love with the music. Listening to Autobiography, I fell in love with her.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 21 April 2006 21:03 (7 years ago) Permalink
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Friday, 21 April 2006 22:41 (7 years ago) Permalink
― don, Friday, 21 April 2006 23:21 (7 years ago) Permalink
Thinking of that line in "Say Goodbye", I think one of the things that makes it work so well is that, yeah, at first glance it sounds pretty straightforward, but actually it's almost encoded. A straightforward line would be something like: "You can't handle me 'cos I'm complicated" or "You only like me when I make you look good." But instead she says:
"Maybe you don't love me like I love you, baby, cos the broken in you doesn't make me run. There is beauty in the darkness. I'm not frightened - without it I could never feel the sun."
It's a lot less judgmental and, I guess, more reflective, this way: like she's just coming to understand the difference in the way that she and her (soon to be?) ex approach questions of love and relationships. And she's not sure which is right or wrong (if right and wrong there is) but she's not sorry for being the way she is. And then on another level she's telling him that it's okay to be damaged.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 21 April 2006 23:46 (7 years ago) Permalink
― don, Saturday, 22 April 2006 00:13 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Je4nn3 ƒur¥ (Je4nne Fury), Saturday, 22 April 2006 00:18 (7 years ago) Permalink
That sing-songy brainless piano plinking and sing-songy brainless melody coupled with YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU chorus is irritating beyond words.
― Je4nn3 ƒur¥ (Je4nne Fury), Saturday, 22 April 2006 00:24 (7 years ago) Permalink
― ant@work.com, Saturday, 22 April 2006 00:26 (7 years ago) Permalink
I dunno Don, I think Ashlee is saying "we're both broken (damaged, not heartbroken), but you want someone unbroken (maybe because you can't handle your own brokenness). Whereas because I know that I'm broken I'm willing to accept that dealing with your brokenness is the only way I could make this arrangement work. You disagree, so this relationship isn't gonna work."
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 22 April 2006 00:27 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 22 April 2006 00:29 (7 years ago) Permalink
I crashed your pickup trackthen I had to drive it back homeI was crying I was so scaredof what you would doof what you would saybut you just started laughingso I just started laughing alongsaying it looks a little roughbut it runs o.k.it looks a little roughbut it runs good anyway
we get a little further from perfectioneach year on the roadI think it's called characterI think that's just the way it goesbut it's better to be dusty than polishedlike some store window mannequinwon't you touch me where I'm rustylet me stain your handstouch me where I'm rusty, let me...
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 22 April 2006 00:34 (7 years ago) Permalink
Not for long...enter The Lovemarks!
Saatchi & Saatchi is touting a manufactured girl band, created by the agency, as its latest ad weapon in the battle to reach young consumers.
Marketers will be able to hire the as-yet-unnamed group to promote their brands in their songs, their clothing and what they eat and drink.
(More at Poptimists). (xpost)
― nameom (nameom), Saturday, 22 April 2006 00:36 (7 years ago) Permalink
It's also the message threaded through I Am Me, is it not?
(2) I got Tori Amos's Scarlet's Walk (2002) from the library last Saturday; haven't had time to listen to it enough, but so far I like it far more than I'd expected. It seems far more pop than I remember her being (I used to cringe when people played her for me); is this because she's moved closer to pop, or because pop moved closer to her? I've not been taking in the lyrics, not because I've been avoiding them, just because she's been in the background and they haven't broken through. In any event, there are songs on here that aren't so different from the opening to "Rush," though unlike Aly & AJ she doesn't take them through to the teenrush of a wailing chorus.
So are the girlpoppers effecting a change in my taste?
I mean, Tori Amos???
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Saturday, 22 April 2006 03:17 (7 years ago) Permalink
I imagine it's both...a friend of mine made this same observation a week or so ago. She doesn't listen to the radio and dislikes most teen pop, and she thought that Tori Amos was going more "mainstream" in her some of her later albums (I wouldn't know, never really listened to Tori Amos all that much). I forget which album we were listening to. But then how many teen poppers cite Tori Amos as a major influence? Is the ratio the same as a high school drama dept's worth of aspiring singers?
― nameom (nameom), Saturday, 22 April 2006 03:35 (7 years ago) Permalink
Ashlee et. al. certainly still sound closer her first album Little Earthquakes, which I actually really could imagine sounding quite different after a heavy dose of current confessional teenpop. Some young aspiring girlpopper should definitely cover "Girl" from that album. But more generally I think we might see girlpoppers move toward that territory when they get to the third album stage and wanna "prove themselves creatively". Relevant factoid: Alanis Morrissette claimed in an interview that when she first heard Little Earthquakes she lay on her floor and cried all day.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 22 April 2006 03:38 (7 years ago) Permalink
"Take it back, take it all back now/The things I gave, like the taste of my kiss on your lips/I miss that now."
So by the third line she's taking back the taking back. She misses him. She wants him back. Once again, she's telling a story in abstractions, and once again it feels like a fullbodied story anyway. The chorus goes:
"All the things left undiscovered/Leave me waiting and left to wonder/I need you/Yeah I need you/Don't walk away."
What a profound way to lament a relationship: "All the things left undiscovered."
And then there's the ending, which is a whole new melody, sung in the same slow steps Tim described in "Say Goodbye," but many more - I wish I could convey her singing, the slow emphasis she gives everything, first a steady tread on her husky register:
"'Cause I can't fake/And I can't hate/But it's my heart/That's 'bout to break/You're all I need/I'm on my knees/Watch me bleed/Would you listen please"
Then repetitive little cries as her voice lifts.
"I give in/I breathe out/I want you/There's no doubt/I freak out/I'm left out/Without you/I'm without/I cross out/I can't doubt/I cry out/I reach out/Don't walk away, don't walk away, don't walk away, don't walk away"
A couple of interesting facts about this song: (1) Background vocals are credited to Ashlee Simpson alone; unlike the other tracks, no Kara or John augmenting her. (2) Songwriters are Ashlee Simpson and John Shanks. No Kara.
So, a question I'm kind of posing myself - who or what am I loving when I love Ashlee? - well, this doesn't necessarily eliminate Kara (who's at least as good-looking as Ashlee, and she's only 17 years younger than I rather than 31, and she says on her Myspace page she's single and straight)... This is an artistic creation here, this Ashlee, no matter how few or how many hands are in on it. But still, try and find an equal creation from Kara or John when Ashlee's not in the room.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Saturday, 22 April 2006 04:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Saturday, 22 April 2006 04:16 (7 years ago) Permalink
I love it to death. It's like the Matrix guys doing Judas Preist with a refreshingly non-breathy girl voice on top.
― Grey, Ian (IanBrooklyn), Saturday, 22 April 2006 04:18 (7 years ago) Permalink
Back to "Undiscovered": Good guitar playing from John, too. A gentle drone, a note shifts while the others stay put, but it's insistent, like the song itself.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Saturday, 22 April 2006 04:24 (7 years ago) Permalink
― don, Saturday, 22 April 2006 05:09 (7 years ago) Permalink
― don, Saturday, 22 April 2006 05:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Saturday, 22 April 2006 05:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
― don, Saturday, 22 April 2006 05:19 (7 years ago) Permalink
I actually brought up the Ani lyric partly because I reckon I could make a mean compilation of earlier Ani stuff that would sound like an underproduced version of a lot of stuff here. Back on the covers tip, something like "Anyday" would make a great ballad for a girlpopper (I love this phrase Frank!) to do. In some ways becoming so obsessive about Ashlee has put me back in touch with my partially repressed fem-singer-songwriter adolescence.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 22 April 2006 05:34 (7 years ago) Permalink
Songwriting credits: Ashlee Simpson and John Shanks. Once again, no Kara.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Saturday, 22 April 2006 05:37 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 22 April 2006 07:52 (7 years ago) Permalink
Anyway. Johanna Stahley's *I'm Not Perfect* (she's from NYC, I think) is a better Sheryl Crow album than the last Sheryl Crow album. Sounds more like when Sheryl liked beats, back in her "Leaving Las Vegas" days. First song is called "My Big O (I Can)," and, judging from the album cover photo, may well be about the singer's Big O and the achieving of it thereof. Also, she imitates Steve Tyler in it. Another highlight is the one where Johanna falls for a bartender. And even the songs with sorta dreary words don't sound like they do.-- xhuxk (xedd...), March 18th, 2006.What makes Johanna Stanley's CD so boppy, I figured out, is how her bassist and drummer play full-on late '60s bubblegum soul beats in three straight songs in the middle -- "The Bartender Song," "What You're Doing," and "Misery," the latter of which doesn't sound miserable at all. Tapdancey alley-cat rhythm of "I'm Not Perfect" (a Rickie Lee or Norah Jones move?) and George Michael Diddleybeats of "Nothing I Would Change" are nice, too.-- xhuxk (xedd...), March 18th, 2006.
― xhuxk, Saturday, 22 April 2006 12:49 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Grey, Ian (IanBrooklyn), Saturday, 22 April 2006 20:34 (7 years ago) Permalink
(I, however, did not get the Switchfoot. I picked it up, looked at it, but could not make myself take it.)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 23 April 2006 00:27 (7 years ago) Permalink
I need an editor.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 23 April 2006 00:58 (7 years ago) Permalink
― don, Sunday, 23 April 2006 01:10 (7 years ago) Permalink
Q: 1. why are you so spectacular? 2. can you buy a private jet and save me from florida? I think the elderly people are coming to get me.
A: 1.) i took classes from lindsay lohan. but they involved drugs and drinking, so I failed. 2.) if I had a hammer, i'd hammer in the morning, i'd hammer in the eve'nin, all over this land.
Q: Are you excited about turning 17 this year?
A: i'm more excited about not turning 16.
Q: Where do you get the inspiration to be a song-writer and by being an artist (design)?
A: i dont get inspiration. I dont really know why I write about certain things, or why I dont write about certain things. I dont really "write" about anything. its all pish posh.
Q: So first of all i would like to ask. will you come to my house and disco with me and my brother in the nude? Secondly. being serious and all. WHEN. and i mean it. are you my dear, going to come to england.
A: I was in England yesterday! didnt you know? I was dressed as ringo star and I yelled things like "NAY NAY NAY"
Q: will you sing happy birthday to me on friday? i'll be 19.
A: happy birthday Mr.president.
Q: Okay. i've got three questions. 1. do you have any pets? If so, what are there and what are their names? 2. Have you ever watched Veronica Mars? If not, you should. 3. Have you ever traveled overseas? if so, whats your fave place you've been and why? p.s. Do you love it?
A: (uno) yes. simon's dawgs. and unicorn. (something) i lost my remote (tres) i was riding on the mayflower, when I thought I spotted some land.
brie!!!!!!!! will you come and chill with captain nicnic in hard rock cafe london and bathe in baked beans? you know you wanna
A: YES YES YES.
Q: what is your fav. sport and why??
A: is that a trick question?
Q: have you ever wondered what your life would be like without the music, the movies, and the fans?
A: yes. and then I remember that I would live the same life.
Q: 1. What is the best Bob Dylan CD? 2. Have you seen Transamerica? 3. Do you think Reese Witherspoon should have got best actress?
A: 1.) my favorite is Highway 61 revisted. but they are all amazing. 2.) nope. 3.) i thought she did win? am i going out of my mind? I saw walk the line the day it came out, at midnight. LOVE IT.
Q: yes, she did win...my question is do you think she deserved it or should someone else have got it. =]
Q: what is ur biggest wish??? :)
A: to be a character at disneyland. mostly Ariel.
Q: if you could live in any decade which decade would you choose?
A: SIMPLE. the 60s. no doubt.
Q: Do you remember going to a school called Pioneer Middle in South Florida to talk about you're movie Hoot (April 3rd)?
A: PIONEER MIDDLE SCHOOL GIVES A HOOT. i hope cookies and cream/salt and pepper have been feed lots of cheetos and crickets.
Q: Where'd you get your networking skills?
A: from many years of working in the netting industry.
Q: Do you want to go see the musical Wicked with me.
A: can I be in the musical?
Q: What event from your life would make the best cartoon scene? Pirates: cool or overrated?
A: once I chased a road runner. i tried to drop an anvil on her head. but it fell on me instead. i think that would work great as a cartoon. the best part was that I was dressed as a coyote! how random right?! right. pirates are overreated. I AM THE WARRIOR.
Q: How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop? Why is the sky blue?
A: those are highly controversial question. mostly ones I cannot answer. but I will say this. "is it safe to say C'mon C'mon? was it right to leave? c'mon c'mon. will I ever learn? c'mon c'mon c'mon c'mon"
Q: you were in my dream. i'm hungry. lets go get pizza.
A: I have a question. I JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH YOU AND NOT ONCE DID YOU MENTION THAT I WAS IN YOUR DREAM. what the frick. that damned lip ring is giving you brain damage.
Q: do you like mooses? that is a weird word. mooses.
A: i once owned a bear that wore a dragon costume, named moose. so. to answer your question. i hope mooses suck. Q: would you eat a chocolate covered hot dog if someone offered it to you?
A: depends. what kind of dog? i couldnt eat a whole saint bernard. maybe a baby poodle. the white ones. with milk chocolate? that wouldnt be so bad.
Q: What do you think about imaginary teddybears?-You want one?-Do you think im crazy, or just a really cool person with an imaginary teddybear called Hans?Take your time Brie.Those are some tough questions.
A: --- they make me say "free all night" ---i dont ---well. can you make pancakes? waffles? if the answer is yes. then yes.
Q: i got a job at the gun club pulling traps. it just kind of happened. i dont even know what i'll be doing. AHHHH I'VE NEVER EVEN HELD A GUN IN MY LIFE! but i hear you get good tips...should i stick with it? hahaha this is like an advice column...
A: YES. BECAUSE YOU ARE THE WARRIOR. listen to the following songs, they will be the soundtrack to your life: slippery people by talking heads, warrior by yeah yeah yeahs, knockin' on heavens door by BOB DYLAN and....soldier by destinys child:)
Q: How long does it take you to come up with all the banter you churn out? I mean seriously, it has to be the most random irrelevant stuff I've ever read. I guess though that is the mystery that is Brie Larson....
A: i bought the Do-it-yourself DVD.
Q: is your concert on friday free?
A: well. its 5 invisible dollars. so I guess you could say that.
Q: should my mum let me get my lip pierced?
A: YES. and it should be in the shape of the letter B.
Q: Do You Like Panic! at the disco? and do you think billie joe armstrong is attractive?
A: i would say no, but only because when I hear their music or just their name...I get this sudden urge to break my left arm and stick a fork in my eye? billie joe armstrong is in green day. your answer is right there.
Q: What does celestial mean?
A: read a book. maybe its in there.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 23 April 2006 01:36 (7 years ago) Permalink
http://cdbaby.com/cd/yolandat
― xhuxk, Sunday, 23 April 2006 01:37 (7 years ago) Permalink
1. yolanda thomas (another post-divinyls cdbaby aussie hard-living gurl who stops after only *eight* songs and who is almost as good as leanne kingwell in her horniest songs "lock up your sons" and "going down" where she is gone down on and maybe "oh yes", all of which make her two sappier songs about california more bearable).
2. come to think of it, "oh yes" probably has a wee bit too much melissa etheridge in it for its own good, and the gloria-estefan-via-shakira move "perception of deception" is probably more fun. vibratophobes, caveat emptor. but "lock up your sons" and "going down" are truly rockin' and sexy and really crack me up:
― xhuxk, Sunday, 23 April 2006 01:40 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Sunday, 23 April 2006 02:21 (7 years ago) Permalink
- slik *slik* (1976, on arista records, and totally fucking mysterious. who the hell are these guys? they name one song "the kid's a punk" but at best they only look like punks in the *lords of flatbush*/dion and the belmonts sense, except they're all wearing different baseball jerseys on the cover. and really short greasy hair. you know they're tough guys 'cause the one with the springsteen/deniro/pacino look has a toothpick in his mouth and another one is punching his left palm with his right fist. they cover both "when will i be loved" by the everly brothers and "bom bom" by exuma, the latter of which i'm pretty sure was also covered by the jimmy castor bunch, and they also do a song called "do it again" credited to midge ure, though ultravox didn't put out their first album until 1977 I think. also, there's a song called "dancerama." so maybe they're disco? i have no idea, not yet.)-- xhuxk (xhux...), April 23rd, 2006.
http://alexgitlin.com/npp/slik.htm
http://www.answers.com/topic/slik
― xhuxk, Sunday, 23 April 2006 04:06 (7 years ago) Permalink
― don, Sunday, 23 April 2006 04:39 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 23 April 2006 07:05 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 23 April 2006 08:48 (7 years ago) Permalink
Watching the video to Mono, which i think is the key to all this, there is a scene, with courtney in a grocery store, being chased by cops and photogs, she stops, lifts her skirts, and has 3 children come out from under, the girls lift their skirts, and there is three more--that set lifts there skirts, and emerge with chain saws...the girls in chain saws ravage the suburbs.
i dont need to do the freudian work for you (the whole video is pretty transparent) but i think that 6 or so years ago, courtney was arguing that she would give birth to a generation of kids who will kill their parents--and one could make the arguement that Ashlee, etc are those kids.
whether courntey would allow that is up for debate ofcourse--but the video is pretty clear on the sticky politics of progeny.
(you can stream it on her site)
― anthony easton (anthony), Sunday, 23 April 2006 09:41 (7 years ago) Permalink
You can also go to http://www.cdplanet.no, which is a norwegian website but there's a flag on the top left of the page that you can click to view the Webpage in English (the album costs 18.50 in U.S. dollars, but I'll bet there's a significant handling and shipping charge [I didn't check]).
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 23 April 2006 22:21 (7 years ago) Permalink
― don, Sunday, 23 April 2006 22:55 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 23 April 2006 23:10 (7 years ago) Permalink
Metal Mike Saunders, via email today:
> i haven't even heard the Dhani side(s) (single or anything else) post A-Teens. but during all of year 2005 i had literally BOXES of 3/$1 (especially) and 50 cent and dollar bin vinyl albums 60's/70's (mostly) to dredge thorugh here at home. i had a small-lightburlb-turns-on moment of clarity the other day...and realized that when you break down the last 30 calendar years into decades as -- 1975 - 851985 - 951995 - 05 then i can cue up a list of "very favorite pop act of each 10 years (decade) of the last 30 years" as a uninterrupted Swedish Pop head of class reign -- ABBARoxetteA*Teens the 1995 Roxette (foreign issue only) singles comp GREATEST HITS / GET TO THE CHORUS is just unbelievable....i have to pick up a used CD of it on Ebay. i stumbled across a Korean cassette in a local thrift store lasst year... I guess that indicates i'll be digging up the post-A*Teens sides in, i dunno, year 2015? the footage in APA's mtv reality show looked like it was just a Dr Luke thing (the strong single/tune), but you know Max Martin...a million dollars can't get him in front of a camera or an american interviewer. smart guy. does any fanboard know exactly what Max Martin actually did on Bon Jovi's "It's My Life" mega-hit comback monster except -- obviously -- completely fix (rerecord) the rhythm track. and either co-write or do similar major fix-it work on the tune? BJ are total dicks about giving (signing over any) outside production credits...bon jon's such a musical genius y'know...like that godawful current fake-o "country" version (for CMT and country radio) of their (current) hack single ("They Say You Can't Go Home")...good lord what an affront to intelligent/clever pop or pop/country music. if i had the funds i'd have Miranda Lambert burn HIS fuckin house down. it's not pretty when pretty boys start getting old and think, "oh, it's time to start cutting country-crossover versions." fuckin' tool. he should roadie for Ashley Parker Angel!
― xhuxk, Sunday, 23 April 2006 23:36 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 24 April 2006 00:37 (7 years ago) Permalink
(Gottwald could also sue himself over the Veronicas' "Everything I'm Not," which runs very close to Kelly Clarkson's "Behind These Hazel Eyes." But "Everything I'm Not" works fine as a Veronicas track, has a Veronicas character, doesn't seem superfluous in relation to the Kelly.)
My favorite song on the Pink is "I Got Money Now," which in feel if not in lyrics reminds me of "Dear Diary," my favorite Pink track ever. Same low singsong that feels prayerful and sorrowful. Produced and co-written by Mike Elizondo; doesn't sound anywhere near to Shanks or Martin.
All Pink albums are mixed in style and mixed-up in ideas. This is no different. As pure pleasure sound, it's got a lot to like, but it feels less strong in itself than Missundaztood had. Less Pink, for better or worse. Or so it seems so far.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 24 April 2006 00:42 (7 years ago) Permalink
Last year, when I first tried to describe "Since U Been Gone" to Chuck - I don't think I'd known yet it was a Maratone production - I told him that it was "Max Martin–style Bon Jovi, like "It's My Life."
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 24 April 2006 12:53 (7 years ago) Permalink
>oh, i definitely had "Just Want You To Know" at either #2 or #3 on my 2006 Village Voice singles ballot...depending on whether Crazy Frog was #3 or #2. no way i was going to let the Year Of The Frog slip by without it going at least Top 3. same D-Luke #1 as half of the known pop world, Behind These Hazel Eyes. can't remember what the hell else i liked in 2006 on singles...a couple of the hilary duff singles...i think i had to scrape and throw Miranda Lambert and Hope Partlow in just to fill it up. no way would they be Top 10 for me in a strong pop year. OH -- greenday's "Holiday" since it was a great rock song w/good protest-lyric and the old 1994 gd giant-wall of-guitars billion seller production style. my least favorite GD producton style (even compared to the $500 budget debut album 1990) but what the hell. bill has always been the lennon/mccartney surrogate of our era so ya know the guy has realllly worked hard being Angus, Johnny Ramone, AND a sorta cut rate Brian Wilson of guitar rock (as in, songwriting career arc although he probably thinks of it more like a Kinks thing from what the locals tell me), all at the same time soo. still not as good a tune as Crazy Frog though. =#4= well - with the VV music section apparently kaput to hell, i figure serious rock writers will start doing what i've been the last couple years....randomly posting their serious "rock crit thoughts" into other music fans' myspace.com Comments columns a couple times a week, by random number table method. i mostly have to just deal with the 100-200 "add me" requests (per week), and answering endless random questions (from moronic to generic to record-collector-arcane) in the In Box mail...but yea, a couple times a week something pops out that's more than just the usual swapping-of-one-sentence-smartass-comments (between the same Comment boxes). here's a couple from this past (weekend) as example...(check the comments side)...yea...pretty deep stuff ha ha hahaha ha. hey, what the hell, "underground" was a pretty cool idea for about 20 seconds back in fall 1967. -- anyway here's the lay of the land for us rock "critics" year 2006...this is what's left, guys -- http://www.myspace.com/killyridols69http://www.myspace.com/guttergauntgangsteroh and this guy (musician) i know in LA who made such a dumbass comment into my page's recent "heavy metal" blog/journal post that i had to lecture him for about a half hour in print, or at least eight entire column inches of space ----http://www.myspace.com/gainsbarre yep...."rock criticism" as memo-pad notes ha ha. would the scholars call that "post-modern reductionism?" imagine if the Beatles had had a "myspace" back in Dec 1960 when they'd just got back from the first Hamburg trip (the utter fluky providence of its having happened at all in the first place being the happenstance (musically) that completely set the fuse for pop music getting completely turned on its head when the Beatles nuked the whole UK music scene with "Please Please Me" in jan 1963)...yea...that've been cool. imagine archived-forever comments from all the german hookers and neer-do-wells the Beats had hung with (beyond the obvious Astrid and Klaus fashion crew).... someday poor biographers will have to troll through 10's (literally) of thousands of comments on some unknown (now) band's page that winds up (later) being a 5xPlatinum band in year 2009.... yea, me and two other Skye fans from the "punk band" world (drummer Clay from well known band Clorox Girls in Portland one of them, and frontman Johnny Jewel from Denver, now Portland the other ) were among the first 100 names noticing/asking for "adds" onto Skye's page when it went up its first month ages ago! and yea we left a goodly handful apiece of funny comments into the photos over the 6 months before the page became (now) pretty sprawling. (and most old photos disappeared eventually). if you ever send out a cheap xmas or birthday donation to bubblebrainy's Bolton PO Box, she enjoys getting things in pizza boxes. (she is still big on hello kitty or barbie related thrift store togs, and oh yeah, music). i still stick to the idea of Skyster being an "inverted Lou Reed" (60's) for our time... your perfectly self-conceived "cult artist" and musical-contrarian (per rules) who is also capable of writing a giant hit song. at least if you consider "Sweet Jane" to be a pop hit in some universe if, like Elektra and "Light My Fire," some label guy had taken a razor blame and sliced the damn thing into tidier shape (and had had competitive production values, say on a 1970 Badfinger level). i wonder if she'll ever write a song about...um...being a Canadian. hey y'know, i recall "American Woman" was a pretty good sized hit as canuck-perspective comment. so it's been done at least a couple times before.
― xhuxk, Monday, 24 April 2006 15:30 (7 years ago) Permalink
I'm a huge Roxette fan. I like Joyride better than Look Sharp, but "The Look" (on the latter) is razor sharp and so so sexy. But those are the only two albums I'm familiar with. Is it worth getting the Get To The Chorus thing? Marie Fredriksson had brain surgery a few years back, but I believe she's in the clear. Always loved her androgynous fashion sense.
― Je4nn3 ƒur¥ (Je4nne Fury), Monday, 24 April 2006 15:37 (7 years ago) Permalink
This single is so underrated, it's at least as good as "Since U Been Gone".
― The Mercury Krueger (Ex Leon), Monday, 24 April 2006 15:48 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 24 April 2006 20:59 (7 years ago) Permalink
"yea, the Ashley Parker Angel reality show had two illuminating short segments...the one where LZ-boy-couch snoozers the Matrix were hacking out a pay-us-then-we'll-write-once-the-check-clears paint by numbers hack song...and then the near-awesome Dr. Luke in action as a contrast. O-town Ash did the Dr. Luke song/single with a live band on TRL tuesday and whoa, it rocked like fuckall. (low-tech band with no unified look, young-ish guys like him and no other pretty boys...one guitarist was a short runt with a goofball mohawk). as "cool song, better live than the record" moments go it was a pretty sublime moment of pop crossing into rock."
― nameom (nameom), Monday, 24 April 2006 21:28 (7 years ago) Permalink
― xhuxk, Monday, 24 April 2006 22:31 (7 years ago) Permalink
"So, in the random 5-CD changer this morning..., Whenever I thought I was hearing a Reckless Kelly track really jump out at me, turned out it was by Switchfoot, who are not remotely country, as far as I can tell, but somehow *feel* country to me; I could actually imagine hearing them on CMT, though really their album is either the best Nickelback album ever or the best U2 album I've heard since *Under a Blood Red Sky.* Probably the latter. So I dunno where the country *feel* of it is coming from - some distant root in Irish folk melodies via U2 maybe? I dunno.."
― xhuxk, Monday, 24 April 2006 22:48 (7 years ago) Permalink
Upthread (circa March 27) I talked about Kaci Brown, who wanted to be a country singer but was signed by Interscope who wouldn't let her be one and put her on the road with the Backstreet Boys instead. Anyway, I wound up liking her 2005 *Instigator* album way more than I expected to. It's post-Destiny's/Britney/etc teenpop r&b with lots of non-word syl;ables from Kaci's mouth and an extraordinary amount of dub space in David Sonenberg and William Derella's production; Best track is probably "Body Language," which does the middle-eastern/bhangra thing and adds rock guitar and where Kaci lists all the languages she doesn't speak. Then probably "Instigator" (where she'll steal your boyfiend and the waiter too), "Cadillac Hotel" (Nelly Furtado-style reggae that somehow reminds me of the Tamlins' version of "Baltimore" by Randy Newman, maybe because it mentions seagulls), and "My Baby" (Teddy's-jam new jack swinging elecrofunk rhythm workout). Third tier I guess "The Waltz" (which I may well be underrating - slow simmer seduction brought to a boil, and literally turning into classical waltz music at the end), "SOS" (pretty dub pop for being stranded on the desert island in the lyrics), "Like Em Like That" (la la la la la la la). Worth seeking out - -when I bought my $2 copy in Princeton, it was one of a few there.
Also great on that '76 Slick LP (now playing in the background): "Dancerama," funked-up pop disco segueing out of "Bom Bom"'s great post-Santana proto-worldbeat disco metal.
― xhuxk, Monday, 24 April 2006 23:04 (7 years ago) Permalink
http://cdbaby.com/cd/staceyevans
stacey evans, *a slender thread*, cdbaby californina pop-metal singer-songwriter rock; i definitely like some of it (especially "rollercoaster", absolute glam-metal roxette with a chorus about how a guy's moving too fast for her), and i kind of like the guitar sound (chunky and even sometimes boogiefied -- "a slender thread", which has a cabaret croon melody possibly ripped from "creep" by radiohead, ends with a pretty nifty guitar solo -- but often bordering on early psychedelic pop-rock, like i dunno, the beatles maybe?), and i like the europop undercurrent (e.g. vixen via abba in "letting them keep you") that courses through a lot of this. but soemething about the whole thing still screams "sincere and confessional folkie", which makes me wary. her voice is fine, i guess -- not as sandpaper as alanis or melissa etheridge, tougher than sheryl crow i guess but *probably* with less personality than at least two of those three, i'm not sure yet; maybe the personality will kick in later. plus the songs tend to get lost a lot, at least on first listen (maybe they'll kick in later too), and outwear their welcomes: best song is the shortest, and at 3:50 it's not that short. "machine" seems to want to sound like a machine, keeps going into these electro-rock parts and a robotic riff that reminds me of sly fox's "let's go all the way" of all things, but its melody is like "i am woman" crossed with benatar's "invincible" (maybe just because she keeps saying "invincible"?) crossed with some (i think) '80s new wave classic i can't put my finger on. last couple tracks seem to probably be the trippiest, but the trippiness is always balanced with commercial pop, which is a good thing. named as influences on her cdbaby page: bee gees, abba, fleetwood mac, eagles, def leppard, journey, electric light orchestra, olivia newton-john, ann wilson, karen carpenter. so, i dunno. i get the idea there might be interesting stuff going on here, but i need more time with it.
(she apparently has plenty of super-pro sidemen in her band - guys who work with elton john, rod stewart, and ray manzarek, for instance)-- xhuxk (xedd...), February 24th, 2006.
― xhuxk, Monday, 24 April 2006 23:34 (7 years ago) Permalink
..i must've punched up /sampled the Bratzs lp tracks back at a job where the music player functions were working (on the work PC). they were in a style that's instant "tune-out" for me...low-quotient on hooks, fake rock guitars...feh. the GREAT "club mix" with thumping drum machine and honking-euroKeyboards of "who let the dogs out" is on several different CD-singles (of that, and the next single's tune Cd-maxi also)...the club mix stands the test of time. the "album mix" that was on the top 40 radio (and Disney, who dropped the club mix plays within 6 months) was always useless...and later, seriously annoying. ahh...way back when, i checked out (the entire songs) the whole Huckapoo repertoire (maybe 12 whole tunes) that was on their original www.com setup. didn't rate a single tune outside of the great one (from the scrapped major label pop-Nashville project, as i sleuthed in the review) that was on Pixel Perfect. but...this sounds like a different assortment (with some different tunes included)...hell yeah, i'll swap or pay a solid $2.79 plus post for any kind of CD-R thrown into a 6x9 envelope in any kind of crap small case...i always have tonnage of clean cute brand new cases, cd-single and fullsize album size both. though the Huckapoo track record was a miserable 1 for Everything back when. VERY curious to know who the leader singer on (the Pixel Perfect track was), and if they have any lead vocals on the CD-R's tunes.
< (dave) "...kind of like...stalking a 17 year old..." > well, it's real different if you're a muso (recorded bandleader/writer) like me. me throwing picture-comments at say, Skye's page (back in its first six months, jeez, 2004?), is like Howlin' Wolf giving white teen bluesboys unsolicited advice back in 1967. (when i was a 15 year old with a newly acquired cheap used 1955 Gibson pre-PAF Les Paul, and a stack of likewise newly acquired 50's used city blues 45s and lps). yeah, punk-band musos me and Clay (Clorox Girls) and Johnny (who has some problems, like being an unrepentant Avril fan, but still a Syke mega-fan) left some pretty funny shit (comments) into her early photo page. like the pic w/guitar (probably long gone) or her highschool ID card (ditto). as an early networker viz/her page, i have been off/on/off/on on birthday/Xmas contributions to the Bolton PO Box (maybe 1/2 or 1/3rd i suppose)...but would you believe that during her recent long down time (early 2006), our prodigy apparently backtracked all the way to her 2004 Christmas fan-booty and 2005 Birthday fan-booty (she posted pictures of the crazy stuff the Japanese fans sent me), and sent hand-made THANK YOUs out to...the Top 10 coolest donor package sender i guess?...that grade (mine anyway, received February) as one of the coolest handmade mini-PR/thankyou (combined) kits you ever saw, handwritten Sharpie comments on various things. it must be fun being non-stop uber-creative i tell ya. eventually i'll make a couple 8x11 scans at work to document (for others in the Skye loop) just what a facile little charmer this brat can be when she is in "nice" mode. (local guy Mike Dirnt of green day has a may birthday day around Skye's, and he is well known as one of the nicest guys who ever lived, a total sweetheart (girls term since it's the most apt)...people that month are "ruled by Venus" or something. ( 2006 skye pizza box details) -- so i just finished (and mailing out, 3.999 lbs surface mail) duct taping two small/med size pizza boxes together with this year's set of cheap donation-box Skye stuff...addressed to skye , c/o bubblebrainy, LLC, PO Box etc. no item > $1.79 cost, total maybe just < $10 , between merch table girls tops (thrift store...hello kitty, a retarded hockey shirt, an old 1999 hit me baby one more time pink Britney shirt), a 69 cent Buddy Holly 80's double album cassette, both old BARBIE cds from the 90's ie The Look and Think Pink cause i doubt Mattel didn't "hook her up," and most importantly 6 full hrs / 3 VHS tapes of 60's/70's handmade comps i'd put together in a big trade last spring. hmm...track list for them easily attached i believe. with decent "notes" attached of course... she might be ahead me (or the curve) if it's popped up already, but if i ever had to deal (as a muso or songwriter, or just fellow music student) with the uber-brat face to face, i'd definitely have a new nickname in the verbal supersoaker repertoire so's to hold my own -- "bubblebrain" twisted into = "brainybrat." take "bubblegum brainiac"and flip the components around with bubblebrain brainybrat bubblegum braniac ha, well...be careful what you ask for when you're writing a good lyric. (see my PC-printer's address label that just went out, its four lines about 6" x 9" across the bottom half of a pizza box -- "c/o bubblebrainy, LLC" funnily, the generic "acts like" prototype for some of the personality would be --80's MTV Martha Quinn...a taurus with other stuff in GEMINI (venus and mercury, the expressive and communication planets respectively) -- matching Skye.the wild creative streak of our b.1989 kidgirl comes from entire different components (as you noticed blatantly in the SWAPPED show...great footage). anyway, cf the six solid hours of reference rock-video/TV VHS material -- i pointed out the easily most important thing -- Skye has the young Bob Seger's hair to a T (cf early 1969 tv clip for "ramblin' gamblin' man")...and bob is born within 24 hours of skye's time/day on the clock. ha! just cause it's easy to copy/cut, here's the VHS tapes (i had many many dubs orignially, now just about all gone), and "notes" for the two pizza boxes mailing-taped together. (cf now the well known story of how skye summer-camp crashed the music business, and how about the same time i wrote 3,000 words in VV on the same britney era) -- with a 1999 Britney postcard taped down on the top of the second pizza box's top (hidden beneath the top box until dismantled/separated), word balloon sharpied... "boo y'all!" =================== (1) ANIMALS Shout (live TV)BONZO DOG BAND Canyons Of Your MindKINKS (Beat Room live TV)PRETTY THINGS Midnight To Six Man======================== **SMALL FACES** video/TVMisc from cheesy BIG HITS retail comp includingAll Or Nothing (promo)Itchycoo Park (promo)Lazy Sunday (Beat Club)========================KINKS / SHINDIG comp(see track listing on sleeve)=====================SMALL FACES / Color Me Pop TV 1968 Happiness Stan / Rollin' Over / The Fly / The Journey / Mad John / Happydaystoytown=====================SCANDAL Goodbye To YouGENERATION X Wild Youth (live TV)DR PEPPER hair metal ban