Rolling Teenpop 2007 Thread

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Rolling teenpop thread rolls over to a new year. Most actual teenagers listen to emo or goth or rock or hip-hop or r&b, the teenybopper r&b (Chris Brown et al.) doesn't get called teen but we talk about it here, or should, Kelly is swerving ever more rock (Mike Watt on the forthcoming album), Marion's now a dark L.A. sleaze bitch, while Marit is a wild fingerpainting singer-songwriter sprite. Radio Disney's dominance is skewing the "teenpop" center ever younger, which may leave a probing and restless brainiac like Ashlee out in the cold, faced with the choice of dumbing herself down for the adults or dumbing herself down for the kids, or simply fading out - though Aly & A.J. continue to probe restlessly and lucratively within the Disney confines. Hilary is poised to jump danceward whether or not there's a market to receive her. Lindsay has admitted she has a problem. Paris is a hated, talented bitch. Lily is a beloved, talented bitch. Ashley isn't a bitch but rose to stardom playing one. Zac just wants to dance. Girls Aloud are hunting for ghosts. Billy Ray Cyrus's daughter is a teenpop megastar. Teenpopper Michelle Branch is now a country star, while still sounding the same. Teen newbie Taylor Swift is on the country stations with teen confessional sounds and concerns and may have the talent to match Aly & A.J. if not Ashlee (yet). Ashley Monroe is waiting in the wings, half Jewel and half Dolly. Brie is publishing an arts and literature mag and assembling material for album two. Skye found Max, Max found Skye, but the shindig keeps getting postponed. Margaret's in love with a robot. Crazy Frog is writing his own lyrics. Jesse McCartney still wows the ladies. I'm now able to tolerate Bowling For Soup. Talk about all of this or whatever else you deem relevant. And WE STILL NEED MORE BRITS TO POST HERE, and some Asians and Scandinavians wouldn't hurt either.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 4 January 2007 02:35 (7 years ago) Permalink

This was last year's thread, if you want to take a look.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 4 January 2007 02:36 (7 years ago) Permalink

Amy Diamond's about where she was this time last year, but more so.

nameom (nameom), Thursday, 4 January 2007 03:05 (7 years ago) Permalink

I still haven't really decided what I think of the Slumber Party Girls album (and nobody else seems to care one way or the other).

xhuxk (xheddy), Thursday, 4 January 2007 03:08 (7 years ago) Permalink

Skye also found DR. LUKE and so did Britney!

nameom (nameom), Thursday, 4 January 2007 03:20 (7 years ago) Permalink

Why nobody says nothing about Fefe Dobson? Where she has gone?

Haikunym (Haikunym), Thursday, 4 January 2007 03:21 (7 years ago) Permalink

This year will be a great year for teenpop, methinks, with all the releases that are slated.

That being said, I wanted to start out the festivities by saying that I have been listening to the Vanessa Hudgens album lately and have been very surprised at how good it is. It was rushed, and it shows, but "Come Back to Me" is one of the 3 or 4 worst songs on the album, and there are several standout tracks. Including "Say OK" which is the next single to Radio Diz.

Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Thursday, 4 January 2007 03:47 (7 years ago) Permalink

Heard on the radio this morning is that Scott Storch is trying to court Lindsay Lohan so as to get on to producing her next album. Either that or get into her pants. But anyways, Storch producing Lohan would certainly be interesting.

Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Thursday, 4 January 2007 04:19 (7 years ago) Permalink

Brit posting.

I don't know anything about Lindsay Lohan/Ashlee Simpson/Hilary Duff really- where should I start, if indeed I should start?

Also, are The Fray teenpop? They seem to be teen band of the moment in 'Merica at least, according to my intensive livejournal research. Well, teen band that isn't emo, anyway. They're sort of borderline emo borderline indie powerpop/soft rock and completely clean sounding thus could be on Radio Disney (in fact, I kind of assume they are?)

FeFe Dobson got dropped didn't she? Which is a bit rubbish- I thought she was great.

Hazel Robinson (Moggy), Thursday, 4 January 2007 10:56 (7 years ago) Permalink

British teenpop = dead. Other than, like Hard-Fi and stuff.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 4 January 2007 11:10 (7 years ago) Permalink

(I think this is why not many Brits post to the teenpop thread, Frank - the niche here just isn't that big now. If it was the Rolling Pop Which Might Or Might Not Be Teen 2007 thread you might have more luck!)

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 4 January 2007 11:12 (7 years ago) Permalink

British teenpop = dead. Other than, like Hard-Fi and stuff

True. Even McFly, who could've got a number one by sneezing a bit a year and a half ago, are basically going down the pan. Charlotte Church was probably the last great British teenpop escapade and we all know where that went. (Actually I've noticed a correllation between British teenpop and terrible album names: Mcfly are probably winning with 'Motion In The Ocean' but Charlotte's 'Tissues and Issues' is almost as rubbish) Consequently it's a bit of a fetish, more than a genre over here, I'd think.

Hazel Robinson (Moggy), Thursday, 4 January 2007 11:22 (7 years ago) Permalink

Maybe this is a half-decent place to discuss the "British pop died when Rachel Stevens was banned from appearing on Dick N Dom In Da Bunglow" theory?

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 4 January 2007 11:27 (7 years ago) Permalink

no.

lex pretend (lex pretend), Thursday, 4 January 2007 11:32 (7 years ago) Permalink

lindsay lohan: both albums are good, the first (speak) is better, the second (a little more personal (RAW)) is more wtf (eg, the title). key works: 'rumors', the lil jon full phatt rmx of 'rumors', 'first', 'nobody til you', 'confessions of a broken heart (daughter to father)' and its associate video

ashlee simpson: frank will recommend more and better than i can - 'boyfriend' is the acest thing ever, though

hilarity duff - has made my favourite songs out of all three! never heard an actual duff album but 'beat of my heart', 'the math' and 'come clean' are all INCREDIBLE

lex pretend (lex pretend), Thursday, 4 January 2007 11:38 (7 years ago) Permalink

hi r there any hot teens here?

holla

benrique (Enrique), Thursday, 4 January 2007 11:44 (7 years ago) Permalink

Why nobody says nothing about Fefe Dobson?

I will! I bought her self-titled album from 2003 (debut, I assume?) for $3 at a thrift store down the street in early December, and I like it a lot -- a missing link between Alanis and Skye, almost, and I was surprised by how hard it rocks (there's even some Kittie in there, I think: those acts are all Canadian, right?) Favorite track is probably "Unforgiven" (her obligatory getting-revenge-on-daddy number, if I'm remembering right) with the first three tracks and "Rock It Til You Drop It" and "Give It Up" not too far behind.

But nope, I have no idea where she's gone too since, either. (I also heard a CD single from 2005 recently, "Don't Let It Go To Your Head," which I found on the free table at work, and wasn't all that impressed by it at least compared to the earlier stuff I heard.)

xhuxk (xheddy), Thursday, 4 January 2007 11:53 (7 years ago) Permalink

I heard she balked at the excessively teen-R&B way that the Evil Record Co. was making her go. She's probably floating in the St. Lawrence about now wearing concrete snowshoes, eh? But yeah, "Stupid Little Love Song" is total great rock-out music, she had a nice snarl on even her more ballady things...RIP BABY.

Also Lex OTM about Hil-D's "The Math," if that had been issued as a single it would have been my #1 of that year. Sadly, no.

Haikunym (Haikunym), Thursday, 4 January 2007 14:36 (7 years ago) Permalink

"Rachel Stevens was banned from appearing on Dick N Dom In Da Bunglow"

when she appeared she conveniently vanished when gunge was flying around. she banned herself

Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 4 January 2007 14:43 (7 years ago) Permalink

I don't understand the "Beat of My Heart" love. I still think "Wake Up" is way better. Add "Metamorphosis" (proto-Ashlee?), "Fly" and "So Yesterday" to those Lex listed as my fave Hilary tracks.

Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Thursday, 4 January 2007 15:19 (7 years ago) Permalink

Moggy, simply start from track one of the first Ashlee album - Autobiography - and go from there. Gawky, desperate for acceptance, moments of grating imitation-Courtney oversinging ["won't be TRUUUUE," this ugly gagglespazz of a splatter voice], but also this absolute energy and confidence that There. Is. Something. Here. Worth. Hearing. Dammit! First track = fanfare, come-on. Second track = This is unbelievable, I'm loved! Third track = I crawled my way here, through neglect and my own feelings of hatred, had to find myself as the condition of finding others. Fourth track = AND NOW I CAN HAVE SEX (and be safe and accepted and be someone other than myself, even). And on from there: Then everything gets confused, then I complicate matters for everybody ("Love Me For Me," absolutely hilarious, darkhorse candidate for greatest Ashlee song), and then through to the final song of album two, "Say Goodbye," turns out Ashlee is more accepting than accepted, sings greatest, most complex, saddest breakup line ever.

Where does she go from here? Where does she find an audience? Whom does she model herself on? Are there any current adult rock-confessional singer-songwriters that aren't bullshit? (Well, Marit, maybe. I don't see her style as a pathway for Ashlee, however. Young 'uns like Skye and Brie seem more thoughtful than any of the grownups I can think of. Maybe they can model sanity for Ashlee, and she can model compexity for them, if they pay attention to each other, though I kind of doubt they will.)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 4 January 2007 16:13 (7 years ago) Permalink

The Fray are here in Denver, very nice guys I heard; a teen I know goes to East High School where they shot a video. Yet generate no excitement in the teens I know (probably not a representative sample), even if the teens'll say positive things about the band if you ask 'em.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 4 January 2007 16:32 (7 years ago) Permalink

when will teenpop put down the guitars, is my prime concern right now to be honest.

lex pretend (lex pretend), Thursday, 4 January 2007 16:35 (7 years ago) Permalink

or...the earnestness, at least.

lex pretend (lex pretend), Thursday, 4 January 2007 16:35 (7 years ago) Permalink

B-b-but teens are often kind of earnest. They're often not earnest, too, but earnestness needs a place!

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 4 January 2007 16:39 (7 years ago) Permalink

i like a lot of the earnestness! but i don't like this being, almost entirely, what teenpop is about. britney and xtina were never this earnest all the time!

lex pretend (lex pretend), Thursday, 4 January 2007 16:42 (7 years ago) Permalink

Lindsay and Ashlee aren't earnest all the time either, though...in fact, the one Lindsay track that's most egregiously missing from your list -- "I Live for the Day" -- is funny! "I live for the day/ I live for the night/ When you will be desperate/ And I am in sight!" See also: Ashlee - "Love Me for Me," Lindsay - "Who Loves You"...I think the tone is varied. (Also, when Lindsay and Ashlee are funny, they tend to be funnier than Britney and Xtina.) But what is this, Rolling Teenpop 2005?!

Brie seriously needs to find this thread, guaranteed she'll take some pointers AND participate. This should be a two-way process. In case she googles her name impulsively: Brie Larson Henry Miller Bunnies and Traps (hey, they have a theme song).

Whom does she model herself on?

I imagine Ashlee models herself on Kara DioGuardi more than anyone else. Kara doesn't seem to be full of shit; her music (with Platinum Weird anyway) just isn't as good as her proteges'.

Fefe's new album, Sunday Love, was technically (accidentally) released before (or while) Island dropped her, but I haven't found a physical copy of it. Hopefully it will get properly released in 2007. A couple of the tracks are great, particularly "If I Was a Guy" and "As a Blonde." I have most of the album if anyone wants to hear it, or at least a couple of other tracks.

"The Math" got Radio Disney play (I think), which should probably be enough to count it as a "single," since they don't really operate on the same wavelength as Billboard...basically if they play it, it's a single.

nameom (nameom), Thursday, 4 January 2007 17:35 (7 years ago) Permalink

Hm, never actually googled the lyrics to that Lindsay song, that's "you will be desperate and dying inside," which is less funny, but not UNfunny.

nameom (nameom), Thursday, 4 January 2007 17:37 (7 years ago) Permalink

Also new Fefe live, "Get Off My Back", great double entendre spite-pop (like "I Am Me," also very funny/great Ashlee). "I'll do anything to get you off...to get you off my back!"

nameom (nameom), Thursday, 4 January 2007 17:40 (7 years ago) Permalink

Non earnest teen pop in America is monopolized by Disney as far as I can tell...High School Musical, Hannah Montana, Cheetahs, etc. The problem is that a lot of the songs aren't too great on their own merits.

Brie Larson isn't particulary earnest althought her latest songs have been. Hilary Duff is part earnest/part not earnest. But no more earnest that Britney or Xtina were. Ooh, Hope Partlow's "Crazy Summer Nights", you might like that Lex it's a totally non-earnest teen pop song. All about the fun! Although it does have guitars. Actually this is harder than I thought.

Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Thursday, 4 January 2007 17:42 (7 years ago) Permalink

And for what it's worth I know that at least Mike Saunders had "The Math" on his P&J ballot in 2004.

Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Thursday, 4 January 2007 17:45 (7 years ago) Permalink

xpost xpost xpost

I hear it as "You will be desperate and dying inside." Lindsay does an amazing "I wanna see you CRAWLING." But basic point is right. "First" is incredibly funny, making a joke out of her self-involvement. (Of course, Kara and John wrote "First," but they did a great job of finding words to embody Lindsay's image. (Or, perhaps, to create that image in my mind in the first place, since that was the first notice I ever took of her.))

But anyway, dancepop is all over teenpop radio; problem is that most of it is mediocre dancepop, 'cept for stuff they pull in from outside the Disney orbit (Chris Brown, JoJo, Rihanna). There are some promising *NSync-like tendencies in Corbin Bleu and Jesse McCartney, but nowhere near *NSync's strength.

By the way, I'm not sure how to categorize Hannah Montana and High School Musical musically (I mean, other than as "teenpop").

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 4 January 2007 17:53 (7 years ago) Permalink

I said in last year's intro that I'd been surprised by rock confessional being a good thing for teenpop.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 4 January 2007 17:57 (7 years ago) Permalink

Jonas Brothers are very guitar-based and very light and fun. (Well, they have a song addressed to God at the end, but so does JoJo, and they're both good songs!)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 4 January 2007 17:59 (7 years ago) Permalink

Addressed to God at the end of their respective albums, that is. Not at the end of the universe. (Just wanted to make that clear.)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 4 January 2007 18:00 (7 years ago) Permalink

Xtina is hardly a standard-bearer for nonearnestness.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 4 January 2007 18:02 (7 years ago) Permalink

I like the songs I've heard from the upcoming Nickelodeon series "The Naked Brothers Band." I'm sure the show will be butt-ugly, but the singer really belts it out!

Haikunym (Haikunym), Thursday, 4 January 2007 18:03 (7 years ago) Permalink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G7Q-hJC2jw

Haikunym (Haikunym), Thursday, 4 January 2007 18:05 (7 years ago) Permalink

i'm surprised not to have seen anything round these parts about the "high school musical" phenomenomena.

CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Thursday, 4 January 2007 18:13 (7 years ago) Permalink

it's because there are boys in it

Haikunym (Haikunym), Thursday, 4 January 2007 18:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

Lead Naked Bro seems to have listened to Lil Chris. And he (or his songwriter) has probably listened to '60s Neil Diamond, as well.

Here's the Naked Brothers Band site on Nickelodeon. Two good songs out of four. "Cra-a-a-a-azy car, leads me nowhere."

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 4 January 2007 18:23 (7 years ago) Permalink

Actually, it's "to lead me nowhere." Actually, that's what it's for.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 4 January 2007 18:28 (7 years ago) Permalink

A listener from eastern Michigan calls in the following question: "Know anything about Tobias Karlsson? He's the producer and the cowriter on all but 2 tracks (incl. the one w/ Max Martin) on Linda Sundblad's 'Oh my God!' (She's cowriter on all the trax). and really, Linda & Tobias crank out more crazy hooks than anyone but Max/Luke, albeit more disco-ier ones."

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 4 January 2007 18:55 (7 years ago) Permalink

First: Thank god ILX is back. Though lj was a decent surrogate, I really love having a flood of stuff to read everyday.

Second: Is Taana Gardner teenpop? Obviously there are arguments why she isn't, but I hear teenpop in her music - and that sense of young exuberance that is especially in vogue in Disney. (btw; Frank, thanks for the recommendation - she's amazing.)

Third: There's a new High School musical out this year, right?

Mordechai Shinefield (Mordy), Thursday, 4 January 2007 19:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

I don't think Taana Gardner was ever considered teenpop. Her fan support was from the New York dance-club scene. This wouldn't have prevented NY area teens c. 1979-1982 from listening to her, using "Heartbeat" on their hip-hop tracks, etc.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 4 January 2007 20:05 (7 years ago) Permalink

What teens (and younger) among my MySpace friends have playing on their profile pages:

Kill Hannah "I Love You to Death"
Cartoons (?) "Witch Doctor"
Turtles "Happy Together"
Simple Minds "Don't You Forget About Me"
Cascada "Everytime We Touch"
Melody Club "Baby"
Richard Hell & The Voidoids "Blank Generation"
Paula DeAndra "Walk Away"
One had her song deleted by artist, but has McFly pics as her wallpaper (she's from Denver)
One just posted the lyrics to Evanescence's "Immortal" in a MySpace bulletin
One just posted how unhappy she was to be too young to go to the Fall Out Boys show.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 4 January 2007 20:06 (7 years ago) Permalink

Fall Out Boys = Fall Out Boy

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 4 January 2007 20:07 (7 years ago) Permalink

there is a new video game that lets you do karaoke at home and in the commercial they use a cover of "Friday I'm in Love" and my kids went around singing that song so we spent a pleasant hour looking up old Cure videos on YouTube and man was that "Friday" video awesome and man do my kids love Robert's hair

Haikunym (Haikunym), Thursday, 4 January 2007 20:11 (7 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I remember when that song came out. We at Radio On kept making all these Robinson Crusoe jokes.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 4 January 2007 20:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

I guess Ashlee could go the Pink route and record something with an approved rock person, let that record fail, then regroup with an interesting person which will cause wags to reconsider her work in light-ironic-retro light and call it a return to form.

Whatver--if she doesn't exnay te tabloid thing, she's fucked.

Grey, Ian (IanBrooklyn), Thursday, 4 January 2007 21:06 (7 years ago) Permalink

By the way, do we want to have a rolling teenpop thread next year? My basic feeling is that the spark is long gone and that the good pop convos are happening elsewhere, not on ilX. An argument in favor of keeping the thread going would be that some people post here whom I might not get to see otherwise, or info gets posted I don't know about, etc.

So, if someone else wants to start one I'll probably contribute, but I'm not going to be the one to start it.

Frank Kogan, Monday, 31 December 2007 12:09 (6 years ago) Permalink

I know a bunch of jerks joke about the seriousness of this thread, but it's been thought-provoking and fun to read all year. Thanks, dudes. You'll be missed if you go, Frank.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 31 December 2007 12:14 (6 years ago) Permalink

Of course there should be one.

The Reverend, Monday, 31 December 2007 12:22 (6 years ago) Permalink

I'd miss it if it weren't here. I see some of the stuff I think Frank's referring to elsewhere, Poptimists and whatnot, but I like to think of the yearly rolling threads--and the teenpop one interests me most of all despite my still not being that cozy with the term--as places to kind of round up some of what's being said elsewhere and just to find out about new tunes, etc. I guess this does happen on the livejournal pages and whatnot, but those don't feel like the sorts of places you just pop your head in to make a stray comment--the way it feels fine to do here--but that's probably just me. (Also, having an entire years worth of stuff to search on one screen is kinda swell.)

sw00ds, Monday, 31 December 2007 13:53 (6 years ago) Permalink

I've actually preferred this thread the past couple months, when it has seemed less insular; for most of this year, I couldn't follow the discussion at all. And Poptimists (and whatnot?) has never drawn me in, though if somehow can offer me a clue about how it might do so, I'm open to trying it in the '08...(I.e., does Potimists even have a teenpop thread? If not, what is the equivalent, exactly?)

xhuxk, Monday, 31 December 2007 14:00 (6 years ago) Permalink

(Basically, I guess what I'm saying is that I agree with Scott. If there's something better out there, I'm happy to move on. But if so, I've never seen it.)

xhuxk, Monday, 31 December 2007 14:02 (6 years ago) Permalink

How about carrying on in a broader "rolling pop" or "rolling U.S. charts" thread in 2008? The best discussions on this thread as far as I could see were the ones that weren't confined to just Radio Disney or stuff specifically aimed at teens/tweens but pop in general (also obviously I have always hated the "teenpop"-as-one-word thing).

Alex in Baltimore, Monday, 31 December 2007 14:16 (6 years ago) Permalink

I like the idea of a more broad "rolling pop" thread myself, but I'm game for whatever people decide. As long as there's something. (I do kind of like the genre-specificy of some of the rolling threads, too, so I can see both arguments.)

sw00ds, Monday, 31 December 2007 14:25 (6 years ago) Permalink

"Rolling pop", yes.

The Reverend, Monday, 31 December 2007 14:38 (6 years ago) Permalink

I wonder if RT2k7 just needs a slight makeover. Instead of being genre heavy (and let's be honest, though we mainly touch on young teenager pop, we also touch on a whole lot of over kinds of music here) maybe we need some title that gives us the freedom to talk about all kinds of music. And maybe something that holds the promise of what RT2H* holds: Intelligent, thoughtful, and considered discussion about a wide swath of music.

So: Rolling Debutante's Ball 2008, anyone?

Mordechai Shinefield, Monday, 31 December 2007 16:00 (6 years ago) Permalink

"I regret not listing Fergie (or anyone) on my Idolator ballot as "artist of the year," which I didn't have time to think about."

Scott, I had a similar epiphany w/r/t Fergie this year as well. She pretty much dominated radio in Australia ("Big Girls Don't Cry" probably the biggest radio hit of the year, give or take "Beautiful Girls" - the version of the former with Sean Kingston on guest vocals kinda triangulates the choice). That and "Glamorous" and in the last few months "Clumsy" really warmed up the radio - "Clumsy" in particular is the kind of song that is so interesting as a radio hit. I had to vote for three artists of the year in my local rag, and chose her for precisely that reason.

Tim F, Monday, 31 December 2007 16:11 (6 years ago) Permalink

xpost

Excuse me Al Shipley, but I don't particularly give a fuck what you want or don't want, because if you're on a thread I'm likely to stay off it for that reason alone.

Frank Kogan, Monday, 31 December 2007 18:34 (6 years ago) Permalink

Whoa.

jaymc, Monday, 31 December 2007 18:36 (6 years ago) Permalink

I like both Al and Frank, and I'm in favor of a "rolling pop" thread.

jaymc, Monday, 31 December 2007 18:36 (6 years ago) Permalink

Alright, then.

Alex in Baltimore, Monday, 31 December 2007 18:36 (6 years ago) Permalink

Who is 'Al Shipley'?

Mordechai Shinefield, Monday, 31 December 2007 18:41 (6 years ago) Permalink

I like teenpop. I mean, there's a minimal thread, why not a teenpop one?

This is seriously the best thread on ilm, the one I'm way too intimidated to post on ever really.

I know, right?, Monday, 31 December 2007 18:43 (6 years ago) Permalink

Who is 'Al Shipley'?

-- Mordechai Shinefield, Monday, December 31, 2007 1:41 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

That'd be me. I always thought it was somehow less rude or antagonistic to criticize this thread from the outside, perhaps other people felt the opposite. Either way, I probably did cross a line somewhere and don't fault Frank for feeling a certain way about it, so I'll try and stop posting on this thread right now.

Alex in Baltimore, Monday, 31 December 2007 18:50 (6 years ago) Permalink

i'd be v. much in favor of "rolling pop 2008" which i guess is basically what we did on the rolling 2007 charts thread and that was pretty cool when it was revived.

J0rdan S., Monday, 31 December 2007 18:53 (6 years ago) Permalink

i'd imagine that rolling pop 2008 would just evolve into rolling us charts thread 2008 anyway, and that would be a good thread.

J0rdan S., Monday, 31 December 2007 18:54 (6 years ago) Permalink

Yeah the "teen" disctinction isn't really needed, I'd rather it was just "Rolling Pop" - it's more inclusive.

The Brainwasher, Monday, 31 December 2007 18:54 (6 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I guess that would be the only question: whether to separate out the charts thread for those who didn't care about the charts. But if you're interested in pop, you're probably interested in the charts at least a little, I'm guessing.

jaymc, Monday, 31 December 2007 18:55 (6 years ago) Permalink

tbh there should be a rolling teenpop thread 2008 bcuz there is a pretty big distinction between talking about aly & aj and radio disney spins and playaz circle, finger eleven or shop boyz.

J0rdan S., Monday, 31 December 2007 18:59 (6 years ago) Permalink

THAN playaz circle etc.*

J0rdan S., Monday, 31 December 2007 19:00 (6 years ago) Permalink

anyway you dudes do what you want

J0rdan S., Monday, 31 December 2007 19:00 (6 years ago) Permalink

My basic feeling is that the spark is long gone and that the good pop convos are happening elsewhere, not on ilX.

Where? And I really, really hate posting on Livejournal.

Mordechai Shinefield, Monday, 31 December 2007 19:02 (6 years ago) Permalink

yeah, where? certainly not that awful poptimist LJ community..

The Brainwasher, Monday, 31 December 2007 19:02 (6 years ago) Permalink

The community is fine, Brainwasher. It's just the format that bugs me. I don't like the posts - comments setup. I love one long rolling forum for discussion. It feels much less confined.

Mordechai Shinefield, Monday, 31 December 2007 19:04 (6 years ago) Permalink

Agreed.

Ioannis, Monday, 31 December 2007 19:06 (6 years ago) Permalink

And I hope the sour note I struck with that last post doesn't undermine what I'm about to say further, but Tim F., I'm really glad you're well and healthy.

I'd think a "rolling pop thread" would be too broad and blah, but since I'm not the one who's going to be starting the thread, I won't protest whatever decision you guys make (and it does seem that some people want to keep on, so go for it). An advantage of the "teenpop" moniker is that it seems like kid stuff, which gives it both the positive and negative energy that comes from most of the world assuming it's too childish for the serious attention we give it. Of course, some of it is too childish, which is why we keep veering towards other music. But in fact I don't think the title has been a restraint on what we talk about. I've been veering wherever I wanted to, and one reason I started the teenpop thread was so that I'd stop talking about Lohan and Duff et al. on the rolling country thread. (Go back to December 2005 on rolling country to see the shenanigans I was pulling. I once brought in Madonna on the pretext that she'd worn a cowboy hat on the cover of a previous album.) And part of my method in talking about things is talking about the negative space that surrounds it, competing genres, the reaction of kids who'd find the "kid" role oppressive, etc., which also opens us up pretty well.

Frank Kogan, Monday, 31 December 2007 19:32 (6 years ago) Permalink

Frank, now that you said all that (plus what I emailed you), why won't you start the new thread?

Mordechai Shinefield, Monday, 31 December 2007 19:35 (6 years ago) Permalink

Al, you did cross a line ("I don't honestly think that Frank or anyone else on the thread is a paedophile, but you have to admit that at the very least, something like this is ripe for ridicule"), but it isn't for me to keep you off a thread, especially since the thread should be more what you guys want than what I want. And I haven't in general thought "Here's a guy with nothing to say" when I read you, just that you have your dangerous moments, hence I'm wary.

Mordy, 'cause it shouldn't be my thread. If I think it's losing its spark, then it really should be more in the hands of people who want to give it their own spark.

Frank Kogan, Monday, 31 December 2007 19:42 (6 years ago) Permalink

rolling US charts 2008/talk about "pop" here

J0rdan S., Monday, 31 December 2007 19:45 (6 years ago) Permalink

I don't know if saying something leaves itself open to ridicule is as bad or worse than actually ridiculing that thing (not to saying I never ridiculed to any extent, just that I criticized seriously more often than jokingly), but point taken.

Alex in Baltimore, Monday, 31 December 2007 19:53 (6 years ago) Permalink

("not to saying" ugh please to ridicule my own garbled diction)

Alex in Baltimore, Monday, 31 December 2007 19:54 (6 years ago) Permalink

OK. Peace. And sorry I was so intemperate in the way I expressed myself, and thanks for not responding in kind.

I find livejournal really frustrating too, plus with poptimists you've got to get up at like 6 in the morning Mountain Time or most of the conversations are over. Freaky Trigger coulda worked, maybe, except the print is too small. So it isn't like there's another specific gathering place for "teenpop" (or whatever) other than here. Things'll hop from Nia's journal to bedbugs to Freaky Trigger to this thread to Will's blog to Hazel's journal to Lex's journal to poptimists to Mike's blog to Cis's journal to Kat's journal to Dave's journal etc. And people will often put a discussion under lock and key, which frustrates me because I can't then tell my friends to go look at it. But those various places had what was for me the real Paris and Britney and Aly & A.J. convos (plus Girls Aloud and Kylie and Cascada etc.), plus a line on a whole landscapes and cave's worth of music I barely know.

I think ilX really lost something when Tom and Mark and a lot of those people basically decamped (I mean, they still pop in occasionally, but...).

Frank Kogan, Monday, 31 December 2007 20:08 (6 years ago) Permalink

(But not sure that putting "charts" in your threads title will get you what you want. Narrows it in a different way. As I said, up to you guys. Is J0rdan's thread the one you want?)

Frank Kogan, Monday, 31 December 2007 20:10 (6 years ago) Permalink

Is it worth stressing the minutiae?

The Reverend, Monday, 31 December 2007 20:22 (6 years ago) Permalink

rev otm but i put charts in the title because the 07 charts thread is where we talked about pop(ular) music without only talking about itunes sales and shit. i would like ppl to post links to new songs and stuff but whatever we'll see where it goes.

J0rdan S., Monday, 31 December 2007 20:27 (6 years ago) Permalink

an all encompassing pop thread would make my head explode esp. in a world where people say with a straight-face that battles are a "pop" band

J0rdan S., Monday, 31 December 2007 20:27 (6 years ago) Permalink

The teenpop thread has to keep going because the battle to integrate the genre into a discussion of pop music in general hasn't been won. Sure, Britney's album got its own thread, but we couldn't have discussed Ashley Tisdale's album on a general pop thread and gotten a good discussion out of it. The teenpop thread exists for a good reason: it's a real genre, with real depth and complex songs, that is completely dismissed by the majority of pop music fans on ILM. The Paris Hilton album comes to mind-- Lex started a thread about it that became a continued series of people mocking him for starting it, and on the teenpop thread the album got the serious discussion it deserved.

Matt Armstrong, Monday, 31 December 2007 21:52 (6 years ago) Permalink

"Pop" sounds way more bland and chickenshit and compromised than "teenpop" to me; it's too all-encompassing (plus just wait until it gets overrun by Big Star and Blue Ash and Badfinger fans.) (Not that they should be shut out or anything. Sometimes I'm even one of those myself.)

And my problem with "U.S. charts" is, uh, what about teenpop that doesn't make the U.S. charts (like, say Skye Sweetnam and Hope Partlow and the Veronicas and Pretty Donkey and fill-in-the-Europop-star-I-never-heard-of in the past few years)? Where does that go?

I suggest: Rolling Bubblegum Thread '08. (But it's too late now, maybe.)

xhuxk, Monday, 31 December 2007 22:21 (6 years ago) Permalink

livejournal really frustrating too, plus with poptimists you've got to get up at like 6 in the morning Mountain Time or most of the conversations are over. Freaky Trigger coulda worked, maybe, except the print is too small. So it isn't like there's another specific gathering place for "teenpop" (or whatever) other than here. Things'll hop from Nia's journal to bedbugs to Freaky Trigger to this thread to Will's blog to Hazel's journal to Lex's journal to poptimists to Mike's blog to Cis's journal to Kat's journal to Dave's journal etc

See, this all just seems really diffuse to me, and makes the discussion even more closed, somehow. And confusing; I've probably never even seen most of the journals and blogs that Frank is referring to; I'm not even sure what most of them are. Which is probably why I never managed to get caught up in the discussions in those places, or to join in there. If somebody says something really smart in one of those places, why can't it just be quoted or linked to from Rolling Whatever? -- which, as even Frank seems to be admitting, seems to be the only place where all sorts of conversations can converge. (As for individual-album threads, like the Britney or Paris ones, I've never looked at those, and have no intention to; I can't really imagine caring that much about any particular album.) (Well, okay, I cared that much about a Big N Rich album once. But that was the exception that proves the rule I guess.) And anyway, what makes the rolling threads great is that they can go off on wide-ranging tangents -- except those rolling threads where idiots get upset when such tangents happen, which hasn't seemed to be a problem with the teenpop one.

xhuxk, Monday, 31 December 2007 22:31 (6 years ago) Permalink

Gotta run until '08 but:

Rolling Bubblegum Thread '08.

Seconded if someone else wants to start it.

dabug, Monday, 31 December 2007 23:50 (6 years ago) Permalink

rolling US charts 2008/talk about "pop" here

J0rdan S., Monday, 31 December 2007 23:51 (6 years ago) Permalink

I suggest: Rolling Bubblegum Thread '08. (But it's too late now, maybe.)

2008 isn't for another few hours. But if no one starts it before 12:01 AM EST tonight, I will.

Mordechai Shinefield, Tuesday, 1 January 2008 00:32 (6 years ago) Permalink

Tape Store, Tuesday, 1 January 2008 01:40 (6 years ago) Permalink

Bubblegummy goodness continues: Rolling Debutante Bubblegum Teenpop Thread 2008

Greg Fanoe, Thursday, 3 January 2008 17:42 (6 years ago) Permalink

3 months pass...

Dom Passantino, Monday, 28 April 2008 21:35 (6 years ago) Permalink

bye thread

Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 28 April 2008 21:37 (6 years ago) Permalink


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