THE MASTER (2012) P.T. Anderson's film on the origions of Scientology (sort of), Starring Philip Seymour Hoffman, Joaquin Phoenix, Amy Adams, and Laura Dern

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1560747/

stoked for the madness.

No running time...Haven't unequivocally loved a PTA film since Boogie Nights, but every one's an adventure.

haha wow, this is going to be great

http://www.narconon.org/drug-rehabilitation/l-ron-hubbard-ocean.gifhttp://images.nymag.com/daily/entertainment/20090116_hoffman_190x190.jpg

i'm saying!!

there's a casting call soon for some of the WWII scenes being shot here

is pta really going to take two years making this? i'd guess he isn't aiming for a january 2013 release. had thought he was doing 'vineland' with robert downey jr too. look forward to that towards the end of the decade.

sounds like he started filming in June.

Great as this sounds I hope the Inherent Vice adaptation comes first.

is pta really going to take two years making this? i'd guess he isn't aiming for a january 2013 release. had thought he was doing 'vineland' with robert downey jr too. look forward to that towards the end of the decade.

without knowing much about it or how these things work, i read somewhere that they were maybe gonna film the two things back to back & then edit, with the assumption that editing would take a year, per there will be blood

stoked for the madness.

― ( •ิ.•ั) (gr8080), Wednesday, August 3, 2011 1:37 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

It's titled "The Master" yet there is no John Simm to be found. Sad.

no http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/files/images/henry_james_(george_eastman_collection)296c.jpg no credibility

jesse plemons of FNL as PSHs son is intrstng

I am not confident that this will be a better Scientology film than Mock Up on Mu:

http://mubi.com/notebook/posts/the-forgotten-sticky-figments

sounds like he started filming in June.

― ( •ิ.•ั) (gr8080), Wednesday, August 3, 2011 9:45 AM (3 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yah http://www.ifc.com/news/2011/06/paul-thomas-anderson-the-master-photos.php

http://www.examiner.com/community-in-san-francisco/mare-island-one-huge-film-set-for-new-big-budget-movie

Heads up:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/master-paul-thomas-anderson-october-release-megan-ellison-297353

Also I'm terribly amused by that Mare Island link just above as I lived there from 1979 to 1981 when it was still a Navy base.

stoked for the madness.

― ( •ิ.•ั) (gr8080), Wednesday, August 3, 2011 1:37 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

― ice cr?m, Wednesday, August 3, 2011 1:19 AM (7 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

like this idea. would be cool to see what films buffet and gates would throw their money behind.

philip seymour hoffman and joaquin phoenix, laura dern and amy adams

p.t. anderson and, er, himself

Something something or other:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/movies/paul-thomas-anderson-film-may-be-about-scientology.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9oZDKFoCqAw

Worth embedding! Maybe this link will let it happen?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oZDKFoCqAw&feature=youtu.be

Ah hell. Well, yeah, it looks pretty intriguing. Phoenix almost looks like Fassbender there. Pretty excited.

<3 joaquin

fucking amazing trailer

Was just about to post it. Great, great stuff.

oh hell yes

nice.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSS.

Excellent - can't wait for some Hubbard footage

Rah! Just watched it twice through. I'm stoked.

the only way i could be more psyched for this is if there are aleister crowley & jack parsons analogues in the movie because their association w/ the hubb

that is pretty much exactly what a trailer should be. hope the movie is that good!

xpost -- got that goddamn right

the only way i could be more psyched for this is if there are aleister crowley & jack parsons analogues in the movie because their association w/ the hubb

omg what if

is he making a boob out of sand?

how would you rate your overall health?

strrrong

Actually you know, what if the whole supposition has been a bit of a blind and it IS all about Hubbard/Parsons/Crowley rather than just Hubbard straight up? The time period is right given the look of the trailer, and it suits the title.

will lose my shit if there's a Parsons (or Crowley) analogue in this

amy adams as marjorie cameron???

http://www.johncoulthart.com/feuilleton/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/cameron.jpg

probably not tho!

radiohead's jonny greenwood is doing the score for this, for those who care about such things. i thought he did a fantastic job with both There Will Be Blood and Norwegian Wood.

was there ever a movie made about parsons? that entire story with the three of them is so bonkers

I thought the music in that trailer sounded very similar to Greenwood's TWBB score.

tbh i would watch this for the wrestling seamen alone #pvmic

i almost auditioned to be an extra in that scene!!!

gr8080, mind if I change the year in the thread title now that it has a 2012 release date?

by all means, and change this to 2013 while you're at it:

TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES MICHAEL BAY REBOOT (2014)

thanks!

sorry if that's an annoying habit, i just really hate the "anticipate" meme in movie thread titles

i almost auditioned to be an extra in that scene!!!

Jeez, man, you could have snuck in a 77 tattoo or something into the film and blown minds.

i saw a girl with a 77 tattoo on saturday!!

i came very close to asking if i could take a photo

Phoenix looks like he's aged 40 years and had a stroke in that. Someone in the comments says he should get an Oscar for the trailer alone.

why is this not at cannes? is it not finished? awesome trailer.

Via Deadline.com, speaking of Cannes:

The three films highlighted tonight will be released in succession this fall with The Master (starring Joaquin Phoenix in a return to films , Philip Seymour Hoffman and Amy Adams) involving a complex plot dealing with a scientology-related religion (and obviously destined for controversy) opening in October . Tonight’s presentation was more detailed but Deadline unveiled the first teaser earlier today....About four minutes were shown...None of these films were obviously easy to excerpt, and all look like works in progress although Weinstein told me The Master is nearly finished.

it is almost certainly not finished

xp

PTA cut the trailer together himself I think; we mention that yet?

it definitely has his touch.

Did anyone else read this thread title as "the MASTER P film on the origins of scientology..."

SP: Da Last Don

damn that looks good

wow, that's a great trailer

The trailer's intriguing, as is the Wes Anderson, and scientology's a great subject. I'll approach both films hoping for the best, but aware that, for me, they've never equaled Boogie Nights or Rushmore.

stoked

man I think There Will Be Blood is superior to Boogie Nights in every way

^^should go without saying but doesnt for some reason

yeah cracking trailer, very much like the very early There Will Be Blood one which was pretty much just the "Do you get envious.." spiel iirc.

Punch Drunk Love is still his out and out best IMO but i know it's uh.. divisive.

Many do. To me it's almost like the difference between Mean Streets and The Gangs of New York (roughly speaking--I'd much rather watch There Will Be Blood than The Gangs of New York).

I watched this like 5 times today. So excited. Pheonix is just pretty much amazing. In general.

BN is his best but its not an unassailable masterpiece, he'll make something better than it someday, i just keep waiting for his taste to catch up with his talent

how magnanimous of you

that trailer is absolutely astonishing

i agree with clemenza: boogie nights is the best thing he's done so far. not really a PT anderson fan on the whole, but i'm always interested in seeing what he's up to.

punch drunk and magnolia are both amazing to me. the others are good with TWBB as least good.

i think it's thought to be kinda corny round these parts to love magnolia though.

BN def my favorite.

magnolia has lots of good-to-great parts, but i was disappointed by the whole. feel the same about punch-drunk love, tbh. loved the first half, when it was hard to tell what was happening or where it was all heading, but i lost interest when it settled out into an offbeat romcom (not that i really have anything against offbeat romcoms). need to see there will be blood again.

the score ruined TWBB for me.

i'm always interested in seeing what he's up to

Same here. Whatever my assessment of each film, I really admire the way Anderson is always trying out new things--he's got the same restlessness that Altman had, although he's somewhat more careful, and I doubt, the financing of films being what it is today, he'll ever really have the chance to misfire the way Altman sometimes did. If I compare his career to Tarantino's--they both got on the map imitating Scorsese--I think Anderson has managed himself much, much better.

There Will Be Blood is very, very good but, after the initial awestruck viewing, subsequent viewings have had slightly diminishing returns (but only to the extent that I'm not all 'maybe the best film of the 21st Century!' like I was when I first saw it). I thought Punch-Drunk Love was decent on a first viewing but I've had almost the opposite experience, wherein it's only gotten better the more I've watched it and I really like it a lot now. Hard Eight/Sydney is great for what it is, which is just a super low-key little movie with a '70s vibe. It's been...maybe a decade since I saw Magnolia. I liked it a lot back then, but people change, so...who knows?

And, well, Boogie Nights is one of my absolute favorite movies, one of the few that never gets old or diminishes at all in my esteem. Anderson is an incredibly talented filmmaker and he's probably got me on his hook for life like he's Altman Mk. 2.

Ha, didn't even see your Altman comparison, clemenza. Not too much of a stretch, though, I guess.

the score ruined TWBB for me.

― jed_, Monday, May 21, 2012 10:06 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

they make far fewer films now though. scorsese was making about 6 films a decade in the 70s and 80s. altman was averaging out at more that one per year at that time.

xposts

which is basically what you were saying, clemenza... sorry i misread your post.

Ha, didn't even see your Altman comparison, clemenza. Not too much of a stretch, though, I guess.

― Quiet Desperation, LLC (Deric W. Haircare), Monday, May 21, 2012 4:15 PM (2 minutes ago)

he was Altman's "backup" director on A Prarie Home Companion

twbb > bn >> pdl >>> h8 >>>>>> mag

imo

this is p obvious but there's a big beau travail vibe in that trailer

i'm generally not a PTA fan but the trailer and subject are intersting

I still like Hard Eight best although there's lots to like in every film except Magnolia and PDL.

(a few xposts) Yeah--there's so much money at stake now, and every film by every name director is such an event, that I can't imagine Anderson having the freedom or resources to fall on his face with an Images or Quintet. (Not a comment on the films themselves, neither of which I've seen--got about 20 minutes into Quintet, once.) My guess is that PDL is about the limit of how small and oddball he'll ever get. He does seem to take his time and be comfortable working on big canvasses.

For the sake of comparison, within the span of time P.T. Anderson will have made six movies (16 years), Robert Altman made everything from M*A*S*H through Fool For Love (20 theatrical films from '70-'85).

this is p obvious but there's a big beau travail vibe in that trailer

good catch! it may be obvious, but i didn't make the connection.

soderbergh seems to crank 'em out

xp well it is just dudes on a beach

he was Altman's "backup" director on A Prarie Home Companion

Yeah, I know! I always wonder if he contributed at all to the final product.

as long as we're keeping inventory: liked magnolia but think it's a little stupid, really liked boogie nights, hate PDL intensely, never seen hard eight, got about halfway through TWBB and turned it off (late), never went back to it.

I used to admire Soderbergh's ethos but I watched Haywire tonight and it was so perfunctory he should probably stick to one film a year at best.

I guess he splits the difference between the Altman/Allen and Kubrick/Malick ends of the productivity spectrum.

I read somewhere that they test-marketed Just Dudes on a Beach as the original title for The Master and it just didn't fly.

TWBB is one of the most recent MUST WATCH ON A BIG SCREEN movies I done did scope out

clemenza, Images is great. It's one of Altman's most underrated films (along with, like, The Company). Quintet is one of two Altman films I never got all the way through (the other being O.C. & Stiggs).

my model for prolific "global" filmmaker is Assayas.

i think PTA would be more prolific if his movies didnt take so long to finance.

not a 100 percent fan of anything he's done but im still glad hes out there doing his thing.

ya same

i watched that trailer 3 times today. now i will pour myself a torpedo juice.

this is p obvious but there's a big beau travail vibe in that trailer

i'm generally not a PTA fan but the trailer and subject are intersting

― goole, Monday, May 21, 2012 9:24 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this

i actively dislike his films. i don't begrudge other people liking them, of course, and a lot of people i love and respect do. i just find them inflated and faux-visionary and irritating. sound and thunder signifying nothing, etc. to each his own, etc.

sound and fury

thunder and the sound of thunder signifying redundancy

soundbolts and thunder, very very redunder

!!

whoops for malapropism

you get the idea

challop swaggering aside i do more or less agree with am, i have always felt a vague void around this dude, he's like one of those bands that pulls the right retro moves and genre exercises at the right time to keep the brand seeming very sophisticated and unpredictable but damned if i know what ideas or even what personality is being put across

yeah i don't mean to be challopsy, like i said lots of folks whose taste i seriously respect think this dude is the bee's knees. it's ok if people have different tastes though!

i can kind of enjoy his movies at the level of individual directorial choices, sometimes. and i guess i admire his audacity even if i'm not too thrilled at what it's in service of.

all of his movies have major daddy issues (except I guess PDL which has sister issues)

my students really like TWWB. however they didn't really like FWWM. FWIW.

i mean TWBB

oops

I'll never get people haveing trouble w/ JG's TWBB score.

didn't care for greenwood's score as an element of the film. it's perhaps interesting as a thing in itself, but i found it distracting.

agree with some dude about the absence of ideas and personality.

Yeah, if anything, I overlooked the score the first time I saw it.

Boogie Nights is certainly his most virtuoso movie, but it's anchored too much in homage (to other filmmakers, to real life events) for me to think of it as his best. It's like a young ambitious filmmaker explosion of ideas (compiled masterfully). "There Will Be Blood," on the other hand, I feel says something amazing and unique about America in a way that's never really been done before, least of all by Anderson. It feels like a really good novel, whereas "Boogie Nights" feels like a really good Rolling Stone article.

I did watch "Magnolia" for the first time in ages, and perhaps because I am now firmly in the realm of adulthood found it remarkably moving.

"There Will Be Blood," on the other hand, I feel says something amazing and unique about America in a way that's never really been done before

Au contraire:
http://cache.heraldinteractive.com/blogs/entertainment/love_that_tv/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/lhagman_l.jpg

(Only about half joking there.)

because oil

all I can say is I'm way more excited about this than the other anderson's new one \Oo/

I think i did that emoticon wrong

Depends on how misshapen your fingers are, I guess.

oh no s1ocki!! no no no no no.

"There Will Be Blood," on the other hand, I feel says something amazing and unique about America in a way that's never really been done before

like such as?

yeah, was wondering abt that myself

o yes yes yes

Depicting capitalism as both the birth and destruction of modern America, a deal with the Devil orchestrated by the Devil himself?

At the least, I think it's the best tale of pure evil as progress - and vice versa - since Chinatown.

I mean, in seriousness, I was all up in some Dallas when TWWB came out, so the parallels between J.R. Ewing and Daniel Plainview were super striking. Not to trivialize TWWB at all, but it kinda felt, in some respects, like a less soapy Dallas plotline transported back several decades. So, yeah, it didn't strike me as particularly groundbreaking from a narrative standpoint. Don't get me wrong, though: I love them both, if for quite different reasons.

(It's actually high praise, in a way, since I consider J.R. Ewing to be one of the 20th Century's greatest fictional characters.)

But Dallas didn't have a broader symbolic scope beyond JR and his greed, did it? I think TWWB is pointed and specific as a anti-capitalist screed, as befits its source material.

xpost

except that the characters of TWBB have (for me anyway) almost no recognizable psychology and the "historical context" is sketchy at best, by the end almost completely abstracted. obviously it has Big Themes on its mind but to the extent that those came through (and since anderson changes the tone and his characters' motivations every few scenes it's difficult for any themes other than the directors self-glorification to come through clearly) they were basically among the least interesting statements of a very very familiar notion.

to me the film basically throws out these signifiers of allegorical meaning without really backing them up with anything--and in fact just kind of going in its own idiosyncratic direction which kind of makes hash of any coherent allegory beyond the must thunderously obvious ("capitalism is evil, capitalists are psychopaths"). that's what i mean by anderson's "visionary airs"--there's this kind of bombastic put-on that seems to promise Important Things but it just kind of peters out into a series of quasi-disconnected, selfconsciously weird scenes.

i mean his films are so literally "off beat"--they seem to anticipate where you'd expect them to go and go somewhere else. except that this comes to feel, for me anyway, extremely programmatic and basically precludes the films having almost anything else on their minds.

this, coupled with his tendency to place these big, strident climaxes every 15 minutes or so (admittedly TWBB is more restrained than his other films in this regard) makes me kind of allergic to them.

i've written more about this in the TWBB thread i think.

is he making a boob out of sand?

This question has been ignored for far too long.

p sure he's making two boobs out of sand

Just so we're clear: I think he has finished making one sand boob and is in the process of making a second. Just so no one mistakenly thinks he's making two sand boobs at once. Which would be preposterous.

two boobs out of sand

working title IIRC

Two if by boob, one if by... hang on.

all I can say is I'm way more excited about this than the other anderson's new one \Oo/

― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, May 22, 2012 1:03 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

oh yeah. definitely

::sad face::

i just feel like WA has no ability to surprise me anymore. not that novelty is everything, but with PTA im always really curious what he has up his sleeve next. like every single moment of the supposedly magical and enchanting mr. fox was super predictable to me. i dunno, i just think hes a weak writer without owen wilson propping him up

:-(

i guess there's no accounting for taste.

am you're otm about PTA but plz don't shift your focus to how much better you think WA is

except that the characters of TWBB have (for me anyway) almost no recognizable psychology and the "historical context" is sketchy at best, by the end almost completely abstracted.

^^^ my complaint in 2007. The movie boasts a ruthless ahistoricity. The characters' motivations make no sense. Also, it's weird that a movie this long feels both foreshortened and attenuated: it's shorter than it needs to be yet drags like hell thanks to superfluous scenes.

and "capitalism = evil" -- screwball comedies were saying this in the thirties!

except that the characters of TWBB have (for me anyway) almost no recognizable psychology and the "historical context" is sketchy at best, by the end almost completely abstracted.

I liked this about TWBB, but barely tolerated it in Magnolia/PDL. I find the (sketchy) mystery/morality play aspect of PTA's movies v. interesting. I respect the way he doesn't care to 'soften' the characters, or pin them to explicit real-life analogues, and how he seems to be learning not to hew the conventional emotional closure as the narrative completes itself. It'd be jarring, if it weren' so ubiquitous.

IOW I like that nobody is likeable, and that PTA is a good storyteller who write a good finale that provides no catharsis.

I don't think it's as simple/reductive as "capitalist=evil." I think the movie is saying that capitalists are the ultimate evil, akin to Satan, not always motivated logically. Also, what makes "Blood" different from so many films of even a similar bent is that its villain is its protagonist. He's not just some interloper. It'd be like "Chinatown" from the perspective of John Huston's character. It's all the literally "off-beat" elements such as this that add to the film's unease and make it unique, imo. Not least the ending, which I really appreciate. DDL's power is his own cancerous reward, and he wields it by (symbolically) beating God to death and casting out his son. I think it's much more than "capitalism=bad." It's something more powerful and pervasive than that.

It's not a perfect movie, but TWBB is best viewed as a character study and not some grand statement about history or capitalism or what have you.

The movie is filtered through the mind of a rather rapacious, misanthropic (albeit shrewd) man who doesn't seem to even understand his own motivations, much less those of the people in his life. He's unknowable to both the audience and himself, which gives him the movie a kind of disconnect from itself. It might be off-putting, but I think that distance works to the movie's favor.

http://images.wikia.com/simpsons/images/4/40/20051027141736-kent-my-two-cents-jpg.jpg

My Two Sand Boobs.

original title for my two dads

Phoenix looks like he's aged 40 years and had a stroke in that.

― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 21 May 2012 21:30 (Yesterday) Bookmark

made me think of willem dafoe's frownsmile face, which is kinda strokey now you mention it

He's close enough to 40.

a little rugged wear looks good on his face imho

joaquin, lightly distressed

this is p obvious but there's a big beau travail vibe in that trailer

no, it's more like sonatine.

It'd be like "Chinatown" from the perspective of John Huston's character.

Polanski and Towne's film pays attention to class and ethnicity in ways that TWBB elides. PTA adapted a Sinclair novel for pete's sake!

i just feel like WA has no ability to surprise me anymore. not that novelty is everything, but with PTA im always really curious what he has up his sleeve next. like every single moment of the supposedly magical and enchanting mr. fox was super predictable to me. i dunno, i just think hes a weak writer without owen wilson propping him up

― Hungry4Ass, Tuesday, May 22, 2012 4:02 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes yes and yes. I miss when his movies were actually funny

mega amped for this film

miss when his movies were actually funny

absolutely. i laughed all the way through Rushmore, not much since.

this looks and sounds amazing

well it's been a sad fifteen years, it's true

xp

anyway we can take that to the WA thread, lets talk more about how capitalism is evil

amateurist otm about there will be blood. i can see why people like that movie, but pta is invested in all the opposite things that i am. it really bugged me, the utter lack of historical specificity in that movie.

i only ever saw about twenty minutes of punch drunk love but it seemed like the worst.

definitely this thread is the worst if were ranking

when i left PDL i had to confirm with a friend whether certain things had actually happened or if i'd invented them out of boredom.

I didn't really care about historic specificity or what TWBB said about ~america~, I loved it for spectacle and DDL and brahms

It's not a perfect movie, but TWBB is best viewed as a character study and not some grand statement about history or capitalism or what have you.

This. And also, to the extent that a consistent allegorical thread fails to cohere or that the film seems to fly in the face of historical accuracy, one might consider whether these particular critical approaches are, perhaps, flawed. I think people who criticize PTA's films for being insufficiently deep are always going to be disappointed because I think maybe depth is among the least of his concerns.

i h8 u all perfectly

Can you separate history from a character study? Serious question. I can't. It's my problem with a lot of Amerindie films.

lord knows I've tried alfred. lord knows I've tried.

I left halfway through Rushmore back in 1998, but thought the badger movie was pretty fun.

there it is, the perfect post

I thought the badger movie was pretty fun.

^^ this

WA directed smokin' aces?

Are you guys really complaining about some lack of historical accuracy in "There Will Be Blood?" And that's really what hinders your enjoyment? I'm impressed.

Anyway, I don't see it as a character study, I see it as a mood piece, a la (which is obvious) "2001," albeit more malevolent.

And it definitely addresses class, albeit obliquely and cynically. DDL's power allows him to more or less manipulate an entire town with the promise of money. And the one guy he has no power over, the preacher, is the guy who has his own manipulative power over the penniless rubes, who have nothing else going for them. Not to mention that Planview is considered gauche and low-class by the other oil people, which is why he rubs it in their faces when he wins. In the movie's world, cash rules everything around me, but I don't see it simply as a cautionary anti-capitalist tale. I think Plainview is far more nefarious than that. He is corruption. He is the cancer. He wants to be corrupted and corrosive and he takes joy and pride in bringing everyone down with him. Hence the surreal irony of the film's conclusion: an absolutely lost, damned man (from our perspective) reveling smug and content in his corrosive victory.

no, it's more like sonatine.

this did not occur to me but whoah yes v v otm

as a character study TWBB (i keep wanting to write FWWM, now there's a character study) makes no sense to me. the way the interactions between DDL and other folks is depicted and managed seldom makes any sense or is given any kind of clarifying context (e.g. when the guy discovers DDL has just killed somebody. does he care? if not, why not?). which i guess could be defended but it seems difficult to me to both defend that absence of context/clarity _and_ suggest that the film is meaningfully "about" class, capitalism, america, etc.

the lead character's motivations, such that they can be discerned, seem to shift without warning every scene, and his behavior from scene to scene is entirely inconsistent. not just his behavior, his whole disposition. you cannot reconcile the character of the final scene with that of most of the rest of the movie without doing some painful contortions. and yet (again, for me) PTA doesn't present these contradictions or lacunae in such a way that they make me retroactively rethink the film in ways that increase my engagement or appreciation, much less want to revisit the film.

again, TWBB seems so intently oddball and off-beat, even down to the way he uses classical music in TWBB, where he just keeps playing the same melodically unresolved passage over and over. again, all of these motifs and tactics i can see working well in a different movie that built to something haunting and sturdier, but this film just seems to be nothing but, as i said on another thread, a series of contrarian riffs on some vestigial, more classical narrative. none of this would matter, i suppose, if the film really engaged me on a stylistic level. and there are some bravura scenes in here, but after awhile the long takes etc. seem to kind of peter out in terms of inventiveness and you're left with just empty bombast.

obvs i kind of hate this movie, despite some obvious merits, and a lot of you really like it.

also i agree we shouldn't get into this but WA's andersons movies seem more generous, they project _joy_ to me. and to put it simply i get a lot of joy out of them. i don't know that i'd say they're inexhaustible but they certainly rewarded repeat viewings.

PTA's films, to greater or lesser extents, seem kind of striving, desperate to project their own sigularity--i feel like PTA is sitting in the seat next to me, wild-eyed, slapping me on the back to keep me awake and focused on the wonders of his film. but i find them kind of arid and mostly joyless and they seem to get worse with each screening.

i'm being kind of extreme here, so add your own qualifying adjectives and adverbs.

I find Boogie Nights to be extremely joyful overall (although it obviously contains some sequences that are anything but), and Punch-Drunk Love is largely a journey to that same point.

i should probably not make generalizations about PTA's films since i haven't seen those two in 10 years.

but both of them definitely felt very high-strung and made me anxious.

Oh, see...I've known people who were made anxious by movies and I've had to totally rejigger my recommendations for them. Yes, that being the case, I completely understand why you might hate PTA's work, as he often seems to get a kick out of ratcheting tension.

no it's not the plotting. it's just that everything feels like it is trying to impress me!

i saw Magnolia in the theater and really enjoyed it as a visceral experience, because i was dragged to what i thought would be just a cheesy ensemble drama oscar bait thing, and then there were all those crazy weird surprises that were really exciting to the 17 year old shithead i was. but yeah once you get past that stuff, like amateurist says, i don't think that or TWBB or PDL can do anything but get worse on subsequent viewings. likewise i remember Hard Eight fondly but i only saw it once around the same age and probably thought the dude's pocket catching on fire was funny and cool.

it's just that everything feels like it is trying to impress me!

I get that from both these directors, but I prefer PTA's attempts to impress me. WA seems even more "I'm about to have the big scene where you feel something so be ready for that" - what you see as incoherence/inconsistency in PTA I see as a read on naturalism - his characters' motivations are inconsistent, as are: mine, those of most people I know, etc. Clean narrative is kind of a romantic need; most people, like Plainview, are motivated by whatever their needs are at the moment, imo.

I find Boogie Nights to be extremely joyful overall

Have said as much many times; the scene at the end where Reynolds glides around his house checking in on everyone is as joyous as anything I can think of.

So, Tom Cruise has seen this and he "has issues". They are trying to screen it for Travolta next. There's no better publicity than an incensed Scientologist, I suppose

Oh, come on, they are not really screening this for notable celebrity Scientologists, are they? That does not seem to be PTA's thing.

PTA and Cruise are friends, so it makes sense that he'd want to show it to the guy.

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/tom-cruise-has-seen-paul-thomas-andersons-the-master-has-issues-with-it-20120522

Even so, what the fuck? So PTA would puss out his movie to please Tom Cruise? Why even make it, then?

I assume it was just a courtesy. I doubt he'd make any changes just cause Cruise didn't like it

i don't think this is going to be the blistering excoriation of hubbard / scientology that many folks are hoping for. it's likely to be a complicated character study of l. ron hubbard, and if scientologists have 'issues' with showing the flawed humanity of their dear leader, it's because they've been indoctrinated to believe the man infallible in his teachings.

the link saying the screenings are more about deciding whether to explicity mention/acknowledge Scientology in the marketing film, which makes sense. he probably also just wants Cruise to have a heads up, so he doesn't feel anxious or ambushed when the movie hits theaters.

iirc, one of the introductory passages of _dianetics_ says that if you don't understand any passages of the book, then it is YOUR FAULT as a reader, and that you must reread the passages until they make sense. any misunderstanding is in NO WAY because hubbard presents a confusing belief system via turgid, confusing jargon.

i can only imagine what sort of cyclopean, messianic asshole this thinking made hubbard irl, and i can see why followers might be uncomfortable with that.

we know, dude. scientology sucks. thread kinda doesn't need to be about that.

yea lets keep on topic of ranking ptas prior filmography, gosh

jeez i'm just saying elmo kinda went off apropos of nothing

yeah woah, totally off topic, speculating about the possible movie and how its controversial subject might be received, gosh i'm sorry bout that

tom-cruise-has-seen-paul-thomas-andersons-the-master-has-issues-with-it

Joke's gonna be on all of us when this turns out to be a MANOS prequel.

http://www.i-mockery.com/minimocks/manos/notapproved.jpg

it was more the way you did a mini-rant, then i posted something, then you went in for another rant that seemed even madder and unrelated to the previous posts. i mean go ahead, rage it up, i just thought maybe you could pump your brakes.

glad weve gotten the thread back on topic

I don't know a ton about Hubbard & Co, but I will be pleased if Anderson has made his first wholly successful film since Hard Eight.

btw i thought it pretty clear that my point wasn't "scientology's bad" but "hubbard was probably a jerk" but *shrugs*

I don't know a ton about Hubbard & Co, but I will be pleased if Anderson has made his first wholly successful film since Hard Eight.

― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 15:31 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

^^^^
The Master

who knows, maybe we'll see a softer, cuddlier side of hubbard in this film! which would be something much more interesting than "here's a crazy cultist huckster, who was bad"

Whoa whoa whoa. Rein it in a bit there, elmo, you utter maniac.

I don't know a ton about Hubbard & Co, but I will be pleased if Anderson has made his first wholly successful film since Hard Eight.

Morbs, just so I can keep tally when this comes out, what percentage of each of his films would you deem wholly successful?

Also, please list other wholly successful films, thanks.

(BTW, Morbs, you would totally love Hubbard!)

The reviews for TWBB were more unhinged and crazed than the movie itself.

My ranking:

Hard Eight
Boogie Nights
bits of TWBB

not doing the Someone Who Shouldn't Be a Respected Auteur's Career Recap in yet another thread.

gutted

Morbs, I want numbers! Show me the numbers!

i actually think PTA would be trolling harder if this film actually portrayed LRH in a sympathetic light than if it were a merciless debunking of all things scientology. that's not to say that trolling is the best or noblest thing he could do with this film.

i think it's legit and fascinating to wonder about how l ron hubbard understood himself and related to others. i can only imagine that being surrounded by a bunch of people who believe steadfastly in your quasi-divinity and made-up mumbo-jumbo might actually cause you to be contemptuous of people in general. but i can't really see a way to tell the LRH story without the ultimate verdict being pretty damning, because you know....

If Phillip Seymour Hoffman's character is supposed to be an LRH stand-in, does anyone know Phoenix's character's historical analogue?

tom cruise

Heinlein

amateurist OTM. i'm guessing the phoenix character might be the first person 'LRH' actually 'helps,' and who, from the trailer, actually seems in need of help? cultism aside, a lot of scientologists credit the system for liberating them from long histories of substance abuse, which i think most people would agree is a noble cause. so is he helping the helpless, or exploiting the weak, or both? this is the stuff i'm hoping the movie addresses, i'll probably be happy with whatever tho.

A drifter (Phoenix) becomes his right-hand man but as the faith begins to gain a fervent following, the drifter finds himself questioning the belief system and his mentor.

The drifter becomes the drifted.

if this turns out to be a "debunking" of scientology i'll eat my shoe

well he already debunked porn, oil and frogs, it was just a matter of time before he found the next target of his michael moore-style takedowns

debunking frogbs

Teaser Number 2!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5U8eyMFCpJw

Attempt 2 to embed!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U8eyMFCpJw

i've got a feeling this film is going to have music in it

cool

Damn great. Wonderful to finally get a sense of how Hoffman is doing this.

Dunphy: “There’s another feature of today that is unique, it’s an honour for Liam to be sitting in between two former Millwall footballers – and it’s not often two former Millwall footballers appear on television.”

Sadlier: “Privileged.”

Brady: “Where do Millwall ex players usually appear? In the dock?”

Maloney: “We’d like to distance ourself from those remarks – and so would Liam.”

brady's best ever zing? can't wait for video of this to emerge.

Me neither.

gah wrong thread

I was wondering if I missed something in the trailer.

i wish they were in it

The Goal Master

Tags:

the master trailer
the master
the master movie
the master film
the master teaser
the master HD
official teaser trailer
paul thomas anderson
philip seymour hoffman
joaquin phoenix
amy adams
2012
laura dern
coming soon
sand dolls
booze
horrible
hooch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpedo_juice

oh wow. i'd heard the 'loaf of bread' part of that but not the context.

Just stopping by to list two things I love:

• Magnolia
• Julianne Moore

Agree with ALS & Morbs that Hard Eight is his most fully realized movie. I saw Hrd8 after Boogie Nights, Magnolia, & Punch-Drunk. I was exctatic. PDL is his only movie I feel ambivalent about.

WRT Magnolia and TWBB, I love a great hot mess of a movie.

stoked for the madness.

― ( •ิ.•ั) (gr8080), Wednesday, August 3, 2011 1:37 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

― ice cr?m, Wednesday, August 3, 2011 1:19 AM (7 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

― ⚓ (gr8080), Wednesday, March 7, 2012 4:53 PM (3 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Now that was a link credit I didn't expect

stoked for the madness.

― ( •ิ.•ั) (gr8080), Wednesday, August 3, 2011 1:37 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

― ice cr?m, Wednesday, August 3, 2011 1:19 AM (7 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

― ⚓ (gr8080), Wednesday, March 7, 2012 4:53 PM (3 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

― nuts spats (Austerity Ponies), Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:18 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

http://thefilmstage.com/trailer/first-theatrical-trailer-for-paul-thomas-anderson%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98the-master%E2%80%99-%E2%80%93-philip-seymour-hoffman-converts-joaquin-phoenix/

just came to post it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ1O1vb9AUU

wow

stoooooooooked

Brilliant. Going to be great.

joaquin & psh is srsly the best duo imaginable

And Landry from Friday Night Lights is also in it for good measure.

As I see someone else has mentioned upthread. I guess I'm just too excited.

Seems to me it's only very loosely based on scientology? Ie, a religion is created after ww2.

By this definition, NBC's The Office is only very loosely based on BBC's The Office.

i put "sort of" in the thread title

i love how authentically of the period joaquim looks. i think its the gauntness that does it, he usually looks fleshier

oh yeah i wasn't targeting that at you grady, just curious as to whether the scientology thing is just a red herring.

on a separate note, the amount of brilliantined hair in popular culture is off the scale lately.

surprised by quite how thinly veiled it is going by that trailer

i love how authentically of the period joaquim looks. i think its the gauntness that does it, he usually looks fleshier

― Black_vegeta (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 20 July 2012 10:03 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah otm - it isn't a kinda guy-with-his-hair-gelled thing. the exterior shots of him walking around look so photographic & well-coloured, too.

Seems to me it's only very loosely based on scientology? Ie, a religion is created after ww2.

― Know how Roo feel (LocalGarda), Friday, 20 July 2012 07:51 (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ehh i think PSH reading off a list of characteristics, & the focus on specifically eligible individuals is p OTM for scientology. this should be rad, like PSH as an unerring intense outsider is almost too perfect for him but it could be his weird gatsby moment.

Yeah it's pretty much dropping signifiers re: L. Ron and crew left and right, so it's not really loosely based at all -- that one moment with Hoffman's character's son talking about making it up as he goes along further helped seal the deal; L. Ron Jr. looks amazingly like his dad, which they were clearly going for there, and split from his father's path decades ago.

But what's nice is that, as far as I know, Phoenix's character isn't based on anyone in specific -- it gives Anderson obvious and necessary flexibility, as well as letting he and Phoenix take whatever specific path they want with him.

It's not about Scientology like The Crucible is not about the red scare

agree with everyone - this looks very promising

amy adams is so good

it's about scientology the way bill & ted's excellent adventure is about world history

I can't wait.

have my issues with PTA, but holy shit that looks gorgeous

i think i like anderson's movies more than i think i do, but i'm not sure how much more. looking forward to this.

yeah that trailer is pretty damn compelling, but given my track record with PTA there is a strong chance i will come out feeling cheated. i hope it is not just an arrhythmic series of extended method workouts like much of TWBB.

"i think i like anderson's movies more than i think i do"

o_O

;-)

Sounds like it's very closely modeled on Hubbard/Scientology indeed, according to ex-Scn dude: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/19/is-the-master-based-on-scientology-and-l-ron-hubbard.html"> http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/19/is-the-master-based-on-scientology-and-l-ron-hubbard.html.

Shit. Sorry.

http://www.avclub.com/articles/youll-be-able-to-see-the-master-a-month-earlier-no,83074/

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

! ! ! so pumped

aww, it's like a tiny present for working 15-hour days this weekend.

that sort of schedule move (i.e. anything away from november/december in either direction) could just as easily be a sign of lack of confidence in its box office/awards

i think in this case it's just weinstein redistributing their own films so the release of this and killing them softly don't clash

but yeah, the sooner the better afaict

been looking forward to killing them softly too, but it doesnt even have a trailer yet

"an ultra-stylish but otherwise vacuous genre movie about a criminal called in to kill some criminals who stole from the wrong criminals"

sold

vacuousity is a virtue in some films for sure. Better than grasping desperately for substance.

Based on previous clips and now that full trailer, this looks fucking incredible. Can't see any practical way this will get a 65mm showing round here, but I live in hope.

can't wait "to see Paul Thomas Anderson and Philip Seymour Hoffman tear pseudo-religion a new one"

http://www.thewrap.com/movies/column-post/master-added-toronto-film-festival-lineup-49936

Asked whether the Tom Cruise/Katie Holmes divorce had an impact on moving up the release date, the source close to the film said, "Well, it sure as hell helps."

I don't keep up with David Thomson very well, so I missed this from a while back: he sort of reviewed the two trailers.

http://www.tnr.com/article/books-and-arts/104329/paul-thomas-anderson-the-master-trailers-scientology-film

98.

Can someone identify the song that plays toward the end of the official trailer?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjDqMftHbKI&hd=1

I don't keep up with David Thomson very well, so I missed this from a while back: he sort of reviewed the two trailers.

I like Thomson, but those were really no more than beat by beat descriptions of the trailers. Which is weird, because the trailers were right there. Curious.

Mostly description, yes--just so unusual for a critic even to pay any mind to trailers. Clearly he found them impressive.

Reading Bare-Faced Messiah to prepare for this, it's hilarious

Ain't it great? I should dip in again.

His ever-growing list of ailments as he tries again and again to cadge disability payments out of the VA is hysterical ... all of which are suddenly cured thanks to his Scientific Revelations

http://i48.tinypic.com/23r1ee8.jpg

nice

love that

http://www.slashfilm.com/the-master-early-buzz-sneak-la-screening-yields-advance-raves/

Here’s why you should go out to the movies on a Friday evening: last night at the Aero, in Santa Monica, audiences who turned up to see The Shining were told that Kubrick’s movie would be followed by a surprise double-feature. That second film was Paul Thomas Anderson‘s The Master, and it was projected in 70mm.

What a cool move on Anderson’s part — not a test screening, but just a low-key surprise for people who were in the right place at the right time. (This is a bit like his choice to premiere There Will Be Blood at Fantastic Fest, when that festival was a lot smaller.) Opinions are starting to filter out about the movie, and while they’re largely from people we don’t know — so we don’t know their taste in film in general — there are some comments that you’ll probably want to read.

In Contention was first on the scene with a report of the screening, so thanks to them right off the bat.

Jeff Wells got an email from someone named “Bobfilm” who was at the screening, and he printed the most useful take on it so far:

I’m still digesting everything I saw, but it was pretty amazing. It was like a strange fever dream. (But) not audience friendly AT ALL. An ambiguous ending and not one likable character. And without any ‘milkshake’ lines, it probably won’t have the breakthrough that There Will Be Blood had… There are three or four scenes between Phoenix and Hoffman that are barn burners. It also containts the best work Amy Adams has ever done… Phoenix WILL win Best Actor unless Daniel Day Lewis blows us away with (his) Lincoln performance. This is Raging Bull territory for him. Believe it or not, his performance is stranger than that fake doc he made.

And The Playlist collected tweets from 16-year-old cinephile Victor Escobar:

“Don’t want to say more than a few words about it but it is an all around excellent film. I’ve yet to see one bad PSH performance but this one may be his best. 2hrs 10 min. Will get nods for Picture. Good chance of winning original screenplay and acting awards. If it were me, I’d put them both in the Best Actor category but if one them is getting the supporting nod, its Hoffman. It will have its fair share of detractors and its not a “safe” choice. If you guys can, see The Master in 70 mm. Looked gorgeous and its the way P.T Anderson wants you to see it. “

Here are some more tweet reactions, some of which are, sadly, also obsessed with predicting whether or not the film will win awards:

@TotallySketch “Just saw ‘The Master’. A movie has never made me feel quite like this one did. I can’t describe it or even rate it. I am speechless.”

@aaldere1 “The Master was amazing. Oscars all over this one.”

@LoganDoe “@prfessorbigsock Hoffman is one of the finest actors alive. The Master is (more) proof. #themaster”

@pillowfightin “@cigsandredvines Saw The Master in 70mm at the Aero Santa Monica. Surprise screening after The Shining. Its like nothing yvever seen before.”

@jessecrall “The Master: B+ hazy, meandering story with beautiful staging and headed by Phoenix’s brilliant, year’s-best performance. @kristapley”

@Super_Matts “THE MASTER is…interesting…I’ll be thinking about it for days #THEMASTER70MM J Phoenix and P S Hoffman are out of this world”

The official premiere of The Master will be in Venice on September 1st, then it will hit TIFF, and go into in limited release on September 14th with expansion to follow.

And without any ‘milkshake’ lines, it probably won’t have the breakthrough that There Will Be Blood had

Anderson you fool

No drainage? Count me out!

"we like it Paul...but where are the catchphrases? We need something to hang the merchandising on"

"I.....Eat....Your....THETANS.....I EAT THEM UP!"

but will it win any oscars??????

If you guys were the inventors of Scientology, you'd have invented Scientology.

#themaster

if there is no catchphrase scene I'm gonna be so damn happy

it puts the xenu in the basket

Here's auditing you, kid.

There's no crying in Seaorg!!!

http://www.ropeofsilicon.com/master-trailer-screening-chicago-scientology/

new clip here

I guess this touches on the post ww2 era of people having serious ptsd that everyone likes to pretend never ever happened

they're looking real kraftwerky in that poster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0Col9wnE_E

ok so they're talking about "processing," doing word clearing and and a bunch of other Scientology stuff. Could be about the Process Church, but that would be... unexpected.

Process Church dudes started off as Scientologists tho

This was really good, I thought. Phoenix's drawl is impenetrable at times, and it has a sort of dreamlike rhythm that might seem bullshitty to people who hated Tree of Life or There Will Be Blood, but I love those movies so ymmv. Lots of great images that deserve to be viewed as large as possible.

any thoughts on the soundtrack?

It was not as outre as TWBB's. It felt informed by the period.

How is it that you saw it, polyphonic? I thought it wasn't opening for a few weeks.

There was an advanced screening at the Castro Theatre that benefited The Film Foundation. In 70mm. Also no trailers and no credits, and no speeches. It was blissful.

damn

Yeah Chaki said something about that last night. I am beyond envious of you bastards.

so there were tix at the door after all!

Nah, my friend who needed the ticket was outta luck. Huge line of people at 6, and apparently they mostly went home unhappy.

Couple of Venice reports:

http://www.deadline.com/2012/09/venice-the-master-and-joaquin-phoenix-draw-raves-but-pic-is-hard-nut-to-crack-trailer-scenes-missing/

http://www.deadline.com/2012/09/venice-paul-thomas-anderson-philip-seymour-hoffman-talk-the-master-joaquin-phoenix-not-so-much/

Curiously, a scene that was part of one of the original trailers for The Master in which Phoenix’s Freddie Quell screams at Dodd, “I know you’re trying to calm me down, but just say something that’s true!” was not in the version screened in Venice this morning. Nor was a scene in which Quell is being questioned about “an incident.”

this is making me lol

http://i.imgur.com/NkxLf.jpg

Phoenix didn't realise that PTA was doing a twofer, filming 'Popeye' at the same time.

Just like his hero Altman.

DCilxors: will be screening in 70mm at the AFI Silver

Aye, starting on the 21st of September. 70mm screenings will only be on the weekends though.

Look again; it's 70mm weekends and weekday evenings

aaah. good news.

Yessssssss

is it just me or does joaquin look like joe pesci in that pic gr8080 posted?

i was trying to think who it reminded me of! totally a pesci expression.

didn't realise he'd called the master's wife mary sue, just like l ron's "main wife".

Peripherally related, when I went to Star Wars Celebration last weekend, I attended a panel on sound design and editing with Ben Burtt, Matthew Wood and David Acord of Lucasfilm. Someone in the audience asked what their favorite non-Lucas, non-sci fi projects to work on had been, and Wood and Acord said "There Will Be Blood" and "The Master," respectively. (Wood was nominated for an Oscar for TWBB.) Doing sound for P.T. Anderson must be a rewarding experience.

good reviews at venice

Can't win 'em all in Venice:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/venice-controversy-jury-yanks-top-the-master-368892

bureaucracy gone mad. this country!

film festival rule reform now!

I can't tell if this is the best or the worst thing ever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5bBOhxhea0&feature=player_embedded

haha

lol

That has to be the Best Actor clip on Oscar night.

cut to the interviewers clipboard, its covered in drawings of pussies

pieta was awful

i'm not really clear what happened here but if the jury had wanted the master to win they would have made it win and demoted the actors prizes since they know that the best picture prize is the only prize that has any kind of cachet, surely.

ya

Long profile:

I point out, Kubrick managed to direct eight features in his first 16 years as a director, whereas he has managed only six. To which a visibly unamused Anderson responds: "Oh, fuck off. It's been no fault of my own!"

http://www.villagevoice.com/2012-09-05/film/paul-thomas-anderson-the-master-s-master/

six is only two less than eight

Worst alternate Chicago song title.

I didn't recognize the cinematographer's name, Mihai Malaimare Jr. He's done all the shiny recent Francis Coppola movies, tho I've still only caught Tetro.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e8/Versions_of_the_Master.png/250px-Versions_of_the_Master.png

In which Anthony Lane throws up his hands.

This is probably the most excited I have ever been for a film.* Haven't watched any of the footage releases since the trailer.

* I recall being pretty stoked for Pokémon: The First Movie

I wouldn't expect to like this, even tho There Will Be Milkshake was the first PTA film I SORTA dug since Hard Eight.

Crtitical roundup (Edelstein's description of Phoenix's performance is a howl):

http://www.fandor.com/blog/daily-venice-toronto-2012-ptas-the-master

Nick Pinkerton not real impressed, but sees George Stevens in its DNA:

http://blog.sundancenow.com/uncategorized/bombast-58

LOL, yeah, I can't put my finger on it, but I've been thinking Kubrick is definitely not the first precedent for whatever phase PTA's in now.

Did Anthony Lane pull his 'I question anyone who claims they could make head or tails of this' thing?

a lot of people have been saying that in fairness

well, A Place in the Sun is a pretty good movie, at least the one time I checked. xpStevens

I also neglected to think of the themes in connection w/ the pederast cult the Phoenix kids were raised in.

pretty big rave in the NYT today

http://movies.nytimes.com/2012/09/14/movies/review-the-master-from-paul-thomas-anderson.html

i rarely have felt more out of touch with the critical consensus.

re PTA i mean

tell us more!

it's been discussed extensively elsewhere on ILX

I won't skim more than the first couple of paragraphs of any of these reviews till I've seen the film, but another negative one from David Thomson:

http://www.tnr.com/article/books-and-arts/magazine/107217/there-will-be-dud

it's been discussed extensively elsewhere on ILX

― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, September 14, 2012 12:46 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

:*( feel like you're withholding

i'm with am, 'boogie nights' is easily among the most irritating movies i've ever seen.

i don't love boogie nights but i loved twbb and the master.

i guess i just don't want to bug people by re-posting the same stuff. i think it's in this thread or more likely the TWBB one.

i don't like any of his films btw.

Maybe you'll like this one, Mr. Cranky.

how can someone not like boogie nights, its the best film

otm

I think my PTA ranking would go twbb > BN >>> hard eight >>> PDL >>>> magnolia

BN's derivativeness used to annoy me more but it's just entertaining as fuck. Magnolia's derivativeness bugged me a little more and I didn't feel its tone or the emotions it was going for at all.

i mean despite it being kind of a goodfellas rip but that's so forgivable

lol xp

i guess i can better enjoy the films he made before he really started putting on visionary airs. and i admire stuff in all of his films. but i strongly dislike magnolia and TWBB.

Soooooo this film has a gay character doing the I'm-hitting-on-a-straight-dude-then-crying thing again? For the third time? Confirm Y/N

Stupid

Stupid stupid

:-\

Soooooo this film has a gay character doing the I'm-hitting-on-a-straight-dude-then-crying thing again? For the third time? Confirm Y/N

let's push a theory that this scene in every PTA film has been the key to his cultural cache, that he's articulating something about straight dudes that they all know and feel relieved to see onscreen

Dude's doin' something right when a bunch of people think his stuff is stupendous and a bunch of other people think his stuff is stupendously awful. Positive critical consensus is the mark of straight garbage, 8 times out of 10.

Stupid

― omar little, Friday, September 14, 2012 10:08 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Stupid stupid

― omar little, Friday, September 14, 2012 10:09 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark

psh is so perfect in that scene

Dude's doin' something right when a bunch of people think his stuff is stupendous and a bunch of other people think his stuff is stupendously awful. Positive critical consensus is the mark of straight garbage, 8 times out of 10.

― Old Lunch, Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

nonsense. consensus, division, none of those critical trends have anything to do with the quality of a film. there are controversial films that are horrid, consensus masterpieces that are indeed masterpieces, and generally despised films that are excellent. just as there are polarizing films that are magnificent, consensus masterpieces that are surprisingly unimpressive, and much-hated films that are best left alone. i could name examples in all six categories, but we'd just get bogged down in person opinions--i'm sure you could name six, too, if you tried, even if they would not be the same six (which is the point!).

frankly to argue that critical trends are a real predictor of a film's quality is just abdicating your own taste and judgment. it's insipid.

It don't bug me a bit-- it bugs a couple friends for sure-- but it is funny, I mean, I know a lot a lot a lot of gay people and usually the scene is straight people hitting on a gay dude and then crying when it's over

how clever of pta to invert the norm

i love this guy btw i'm just talking

I need to avoid this thread for 10 days or so…

anybody know what the release platform is gonna be for this? i'm near philly and don't see it playing around there at least for the next week or so.

you either do it for a billion years or you don't do it at all

not here till the 21st either

guess i'm off this thread for a week too

are his movies really considered "stupendously awful" by more than a few high-brow critics/writers (this is at 90 @ metacritic btw)

A'ight, I was being a little overly-provocative upthread. All I really meant is that he's not a people-pleasing director following an obvious template, so it's unsurprising when his films are divisive (and that directors who follow a "surefire critical acclaim" template often churn out trash that doesn't stand the test of time). TBRR, though, ILX is the only place that I've ever encountered people who actively dislike his work.

ILX is the only place that i've encountered people who actively dislike x

Hard Eight > Boogie Nights >>>>>>>>>>>>> TWBB

The other two reek.

i only like the other two, straight up.

well i haven't seen hard 8.

magnolia's probably my favourite, but TWBB is the funniest.

I was pretty meh about PDL for a long time, but the last time I saw it I thought it was great. Conversely, I was blown away by TWBB the first time I saw it but downgraded it to 'quite good' after rewatching it. Hard Eight has consistently maintained a 'quite good' with me. Magnolia is the only one I haven't seen recently enough to judge one way or another (thought it was good if disjointed at the time). Boogie Nights is probably the best movie ever made (maybe tied with The Muppet Movie).

i loooooved magnolia at the time, but the time was 20 years old and emo as hell

dude gets points for using terrific actors and stealing from the greats in a way that suggests he actually understands what makes them great, but that's about all i can say for him now

how involved was he w/ altman's prairie home companion?

I still don't know what to make of TWBB but Boogie Nights is kinda terrific and terrible at once. But maybe that's too harsh--there's just something callow about it despite some really imaginative set pieces and writing.

I think he was just the back up director for insurance purposes on PHC. AFAIK he hung around the set but didn't really do much.
xp

But maybe that's too harsh--there's just something callow about it despite some really imaginative set pieces and writing.

it's like half altman and half anchorman

which i def understand the appeal of

people, Metacritic and RT scores always include that 40% of robotic whores who will sign off on any studio film that is hyped in any way whatsoever, not all of whom rhyme with Meter Dravers.

lol yes, but a score of 90 will still be among the highest rated films of the year, including all the other hyped studio films

my point anyway was that metacritic is a collection of middlebrow critics who all obviously like the new pta movie

lol at Meter Dravers

Teeter Brahearse

Skeeter Slavers of Trolling Crone Magazine calls The Master "A heart-pounding, edge-of-your-seat, non-stop thrill ride of a searing, soulful dramedy with lots of heart for the whole family!"

so, I think this movie is really just 'punch drunk love' with joaquin phoenix in the place of adam sandler and PSH in the place of emily watson.

sold!

i was just wondering aloud earlier today what punch drunk love would have been like with a real lead actor

lol

Bret Easton Ellis ‏@BretEastonEllis

God, I wish P.T. Anderson would spend his huge talent on something trashy and sexy and fun. The current movie suggests an ominous dead-end.

Bret Easton Ellis ‏@BretEastonEllis

The Master: Yeah, whatever: I haven't made the great movies P.T. Anderson has, but you don't need to be a chef to know if a meal tastes bad.

is pot/kettle/black too obvious of a pun here?

Bret Easton Ellis's desperate cries for attention are kind of the most pathetic thing going right now, dead heat with the Romney campaign

Yeah he's totally wrong: Anderson has never made a "great" movie. (Haven't seen this one yet.)

God, I wish P.T. Anderson would spend his huge talent on something trashy and sexy and fun.

whats boogie nights???

half a movie

Rex!

http://observer.com/2012/09/the-master-rex-reed-philip-seymour-hoffman-joaquin-phoenix-paul-thomas-anderson/

i think my favorite part of that was Rex's decision to put "freaky" in front of Todd Solondz's name

the-master-rex-reed

Just saw this in 70mm--still digesting but I liked it about as much as I liked TWBB, which is a lot with reservations.

Strangely (or perhaps not) it reminded me a lot of Gregory Bateson's thesis about alcoholics and their obsessive need for self-control--basically the dialectic that both Freddie and Dodd seem to struggle with.

this is a fantastic movie without a script

rex reed is funnier to read than armond. in his TIFF report he called this movie "the latest hyperthyroidal discharge from paul thomas anderson".

removing bookmark from thread because i'm not seeing this until next thursday

hyperthyroidal discharge? gross

this is a character study of joaquins face

^OTM.

I really liked it.

I don't get the "...but what it's all ABOUT?" criticisms. Seems a backwards way to approach this movie.

have to decide between seeing this or the Rodriguez doc on Tuesday

Saw a trailer for this at the Rodriguez doc.

This kinda reminded me of Raging Bull in a weird way.

i think the "what's it about?" questions are kinda off base too but there's definitely a feeling (at least after a first viewing) that watching it feels a bit desultory and stultifying.

desultory and stultifying

repeat x times like 'back beyond'

time-travel farce called Cloud Atlas

there is no time travel in this story

I'm sure that movie will suck but no need for misrepresentation Rex

"And what's with all these wizards. ENOUGH WITH THE WIZARDS ALREADY"

I don't get the "...but what it's all ABOUT?" criticisms. Seems a backwards way to approach this movie.

yeah. i'm totally prepared to be unimpressed by this movie, but ebert's review in particular seemed dim in this regard.

This paragraph is amazing in its detail

With so many amateurs who run what’s left of the once-great movie industry making bad movies that pander to an easy-to-satisfy youth market that doesn’t care what it’s watching as long as the projectors keep running, and with so many bogus producers who used to be parking lot attendants at the Brown Derby always miraculously raising the money to make more, one thing is certain: no matter how rotten the movie is that you just suffered through, there’s always another one on its way that is 10 times worse

*gasps for breath*

Rex is really getting his Andy Rooney on, lol

god i love that he threw Brewster McCloud in with a pile of movies from the 00s

we should poll that list

would love to know if he did that stream of consciousness or if there was a logic to having one stray bit of old hippie horseshit in with all the modern hipster horseshit

also how the fuck i have never heard of this history of mankind movie

lol brewster mccloud

Harpo Marx played Isaac Newton?!

i dunno if there's some other bit with dennis as napoleon but he's pretty damn unhysterical in this clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ae9O1jAEIo

and though the movie looks like bad idea jeans, the harpo bit seems on par with your average harpo bit re: overacting. Did Rex just have the DVD in his eyeline when writing or something?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7de1sTeD6w

rex gets a B- in trolling

so is this horribly boring or what? I am going to go see it tomorrow, maybe. I wasted my money seeing cosmopolis two weeks ago and would like to avoid that.

leaning towards Rodriguez at this point

i dont think it's boring! my SAT word description of "desultory and stultifying" wasnt really meant as a criticism but kind of a "theme" of the movie.

i wish the "master" himself had been more charismatic--that is, i have a hard time understanding why someone, even someone in a lot of pain and quite lost, would take what he says at face value. but then actual history belies that complaint so what do i know.

And seeing it in 70mm is totally worth it.

I figured that was part of the critique of scientology/cult itself - like these people, cult leaders, aren't particularly charming or pied pipers, but tend to take advantage of people who are at a bad crossroads

like, they're not so much charismatic and charmers as much as exploitative and manipulative.

is equally is a lil mystifyin what PSH sees in joaquin but i think both ways they are getting something they need from the other, & ppl irl often do that even when its not completely sensical, etc

Rex also reviewed a film last year that was set about 20 years ago, but he didn't notice it. "Why don't these teenagers have cellphones?"

Story of Mankind got a lot of retro attention cuz it was an Irwin Allen bomb from the late '50s full of a lot of (fading) stars in cameos. It showed up in all those "golden turkey" Medved books in the '70s.

the harpo bit seems on par with your average harpo bit re: overacting.

hey croup go to hell

haha what the hell

are you saying that harpo WAS indulging in "hysterically misguided overacting" compared to his earlier work or did you just have a kneejerk capn save-a-harpo shitfit right there

i think the 'overracting' question is kind of moot when ISAAC NEWTON IS PLAYING THE HARP ffs

seriously! i'm surprised morbz disagrees

actually I kind of meant that to side with morbs, lol

what I meant was isaac newton playing the harp = harpo = harpo is harpo. there isn't really any 'overacting' to speak of? unless you object to harpo in which case >:(

but seriously should we let a dickwad like stupid old rex come between us when we could unite in ridiculing the stupid old bastard

yeah i'm sorry if you guys got me confused with some anti-harpo philistine. rex claimed he hadn't seen "hysterically misguided overacting" like in The Master since Dennis Hopper and Harpo in Story Of Mankind, and upon watching the clips i simply meant to note that, while the concept of the film is ridiculous, hopper and harpo didn't seem to be indulging in the most "hysterically misguided overacting" of the last 50 years.

whew

(hugs)

don't know how i feel about this. need to see it again.

yeah me neither but i don't have any desire to see it again, it kind of destroyed me tbh but i'm not sure it deserved to.

Rex Reed was a drooling baboon even in his 30s and 40s, u don't think I read more than a quarter of his 'review' do you?

lol

Freddie abandons The Cause to find his own salvation, tracks down his wartime sweetheart and finds her married, then goes on a binge that makes The Lost Weekend look like a Disney cartoon.

??? did Reed see a different cut of the movie than the one I just got back from? Post-return to Massachusetts, what binge?

Yeah he seems to be conflating things there.

I thought this was all right -- well made and acted, definitely seeds of something interesting in it, but it never really grabbed me. I wadn't bored, for the most part, but not compelled either.

the internet seems to think the bathroom handjob scene was dour or grim or whatever. fuck you internet that scene was totally hot

It's a good scene, Amy Adams' best in the movie.

^ genius on the genius rock

I thought this was all right -- well made and acted, definitely seeds of something interesting in it, but it never really grabbed me. I wadn't bored, for the most part, but not compelled either.

― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Saturday, September 22, 2012 10:52 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

Yeah this is about my reaction. It's like... this movie sure exists. It had my attention the whole time and I enjoyed looking at joaquim's face, but I can't find much else to say about it. i can't really even figure out what the movie was missing.

This kinda reminded me of Raging Bull in a weird way.

― latebloomer, Friday, September 21, 2012 5:00 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

i can see this

also i noticed jackson pynchon credited as an assistant on this... pta's next film is an adaptation of Inherent Vice

This is still rolling around in my head a few days later at least.

I find it interesting that Dodd's son is given such a key line but is really only a peripheral figure in the movie. I suppose that's intended to foreground the father/son relationship between the main characters.

Also heavy symbolism with the opening shot (water roiling in the wake of a boat) and, like, boobs placed in the extreme foreground.

Yeah the water shot is gorgeous but as symbolism pretty over-telegraphed. (He's a sailor, I get it. Adrift! Just like all of us! etc etc)

And I thought there was an interesting implication at the end that Dodd's son had really thrown in his lot with the Cause, for mercenary reasons obviously. He'd be a more interesting character to carry a movie, really.

its not screening in 70mm in my town, but the 4k dcp i saw still looked great.

Trying to skim recent posts for general impressions, but not read too closely--hope to see it tomorrow.

And I thought there was an interesting implication at the end that Dodd's son had really thrown in his lot with the Cause, for mercenary reasons obviously. He'd be a more interesting character to carry a movie, really.

― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Sunday, September 23, 2012 11:02 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah thats not a bad idea actually. i have trouble with insane protagonists, there's almost always this remoteness where you're observing their craziness instead of feelin their humanity

its really a lot of fun just watching joaquim though. i love the way his face is photographed, all these deep pools of shadow in his crags

yeah always seemed like one, but only one, of his eyes was in shadow

i was bored at this but i didn't dislike it; i will see it again. it was so long and still felt like bits clipped out of a more complete story, but a little imaginative work (like tipsy mothra theorizing re dodd jr above) can make it feel very rich. hope i can see it in 70mm sometime cuz yeah the faces and the sunlight were gorge. PSH was very scary, actually, especially in closeup.

The War is behind the whole story, behind the setting, and behind phoenix's performance, but there's none of it in the movie, not even much talk about it, which is prob a good move (i don't want PTA to spend a morning inventing some ghastly but pleasantly clockwork pacific-theatre horror to befall this guy in the first reel so we know he Has Bad Memories) but which does make the whole thing feel that much more skeletal. still i think there's more in here about the early years of the pax americana, and about why the utopian huckster's "scientific" blend of psych and spirituality (cf. not just scientology but stuff like "moral re-armament") plays so well in a place where people are fighting to banish war-trauma and bomb-fear with optimistic conformity, than there was about the california oil boom (or capitalism, or religion, or filial estrangement) in there will be blood. this is a much better period movie per se.

so according to the stuff you guys have posted this looks as ahistorical as PTA's other films.

I thought this was all right -- well made and acted, definitely seeds of something interesting in it, but it never really grabbed me. I wadn't bored, for the most part, but not compelled either.

ditto

its really a lot of fun just watching joaquim though. i love the way his face is photographed, all these deep pools of shadow in his crags

― Hungry4Ass, Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:26 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this was basically all I paid attention to

also sometimes psh's facial hair

I think my only problem with it is they the central conflict seemed a bit slight and even programmatic to build a whole film around. But I look forward to further viewings which may reveal further complexities and subtleties. There is definitely some understated weirdness to it that I haven't been able to tease out.

so who wants to explain the naked party scene

joaquin is bored & thinks abt sex a lot

idk I think there's more going on

loved this, best new movie i've seen in a long while.

it's "about" lots of different things, but it seemed like a big theme was religion (though the cause isn't really framed as a religion within the movie, more as a philosophy but same diff) as a failed attempt to "civilize" man by getting rid of animal urges. freddy is essentially an animal, all sexual/violent urges and instinct. dodd thinks of himself as civilized but his animal urges seep through ("PIG FUCK!") so it's not like he's going to be able to cure freddy ultimately.