"Down In The Tube Station At Midnight" by The Jam - What Does It Mean?

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aloo gobum? (the hindi plural of gobi?) a collection of astringent & fiery potato dishes?

there are wheels within wheels in this song

dave amos, Tuesday, 7 September 2004 12:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Plum crazy = jalfrezi?

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 12:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Could be less cryptic. Maybe he just has some plum sauce. His wife may well not like the spicy nature of his curry, and he has some Pakora and Plum sauce?

___ (___), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 12:21 (nineteen years ago) link

Aaaah, stupid me, it all makes sense now: "Little Plum" was a cartoon character in The Beano: a "Native American" (or, as we used to refer to them in those days - particularly if we'd recently attended too many right wing meetings - "Red Indian") character!

Oh and Beano = Bhoona, obv..

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 12:24 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.edwardschina.co.uk/acatalog/plum-2.jpg

"Little Plum" recently.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 12:25 (nineteen years ago) link

note the crouching, taut form, ready to spring into frenzied attack at any moment. like kafka, weller saw it all before it happened.

dave amos, Tuesday, 7 September 2004 12:27 (nineteen years ago) link

It could have been a chutney vending machine. Choose between tasty mango or tangy plum flavours. Adds a welcome sweetness to any self-respecting curry.

mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 12:27 (nineteen years ago) link

According to this money slang page a "plum" is £100,000. So he only has himself to blame if he's mugged carrying that kind of dosh.

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 12:27 (nineteen years ago) link

Plums are everywhere these days

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 12:29 (nineteen years ago) link

A colossal fruit machine jackpot, then?
Maybe 3 plums = £100k = um heap big wodge of cash.

mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 12:31 (nineteen years ago) link

x-post:
He's obviously imagining all this after having comsumed best part of that bottle of wine, hence why so much of it appears not to make sense.

This sent me scurrying back to the third line of the song:

"The glazed, dirty steps - repeat my own and reflect my thoughts."

Meaning that his thoughts are a) glazed and b) dirty.

Yup. He's pissed. Explains a lot.


mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 12:37 (nineteen years ago) link

"I put in the money and I pull out a plum"

Maybe the machine was so high up, he dislocated a testicle.

NickB (NickB), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 12:43 (nineteen years ago) link

".... and pull out a plum
Behind me"

If it's behind him, that's a badly dislocated testicle!

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 12:46 (nineteen years ago) link

Yes! A testicle accidentally became wedged in the metal tray where the chocolate bar was supposed to drop. Easily done when you've had a few.

(My God: the possibilities are endless. Only a lyricist of Weller's calibre could have introduced so much tantalising ambiguity in the space of one short line.)

mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 12:48 (nineteen years ago) link

We are not the first to consider these matters

He avoids the plum issue completely, though

Joe Kay (feethurt), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 12:49 (nineteen years ago) link

That blokes theory is crap. What sort of fool buys a curry from a Chinese?

___ (___), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:01 (nineteen years ago) link

Good grief. A-level coursework? I'm calling the Daily Mail.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:02 (nineteen years ago) link

hmm I think Weller has been simplified and misinterpreted by these first wave anglo-american followers. you really have to know the song in the original french.

chinese curry is sort of star anise-y and gloopy - which brings us closer to the plum sauce theory again.

however i do like the testicle idea: wellers agonised bellowing after trapping a nad in a chocolate vending machine attracts the unwelcome attentions of a group of thugs, closing in like hyenas.

dave amos, Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:04 (nineteen years ago) link

His missus might prefer Chinese curries

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:05 (nineteen years ago) link

I've never really got to grips with Chinese curries.

He was on his way home with the curry at a normal time, eight maybe, was attacked, and four hours later is still there.

This is completely ridiculous. Even in the brutal times Weller depicts, a crumpled body would not lie in a tube station for four hours without someone coming to their aid.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:08 (nineteen years ago) link

It could if it were the future (which it is!)

Vasquesz, Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:10 (nineteen years ago) link

Is it customary to say "Hey boy" to a 'classy businessman', by the way?
No.
To the spotty singer of a three-piece punk group, maybe.

Vasquesz, Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:12 (nineteen years ago) link

if it was set in the future, surely he would sing it in a comedy robot voice?

dave amos, Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:12 (nineteen years ago) link

It can't be very far into the future. The Queen is still on the money. (OTM)

Joe Kay (feethurt), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:13 (nineteen years ago) link

This A-level student bloke has led something of a sheltered life, hasn't he? Difficult not to read in Cholmondley-Warner-esque tones.

I particularly like the notion of the front page headline of the Daily Mirror reading MR. JONES RUN DOWN BY FIRE ENGINE. The Toytown Gazette - maybe. The Daily Mirror - unlikely.

mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:15 (nineteen years ago) link

Well, how far into the future do you forsee curry vending machines?
I'm thinking of a business plan in that direction *right now*.

if it was set in the future, surely he would sing it in a comedy robot voice?

Yeah, well if plum=testicle, wouldn't he sound like Jimmy Sommerville?

Vasquesz, Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:17 (nineteen years ago) link

"What sort of fool buys a curry from a Chinese?"

I do.

Besides, there weren't anything like as many Tandoori's about in 1978.

There weren't that many Chinese takeaways either of course - but there were a lot more of them than there were Tandoori's.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:17 (nineteen years ago) link

"This A-level student bloke has led something of a sheltered life, hasn't he? Difficult not to read in Cholmondley-Warner-esque tones."

I as particularly taken with this bit:

"Like most wives he knew, she often became unhappy when he was detained at work and had once or twice jumped to irrational conclusions."

I hope he failed his A'Level.

That may sound unkind but I think he really needs to get used to the concept as it seems destined to be his constant companion.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:20 (nineteen years ago) link

Also, is it just me or do the words ".... the warm, well-lit comfort of public transport." strongly suggest that young master Gaskin has never been any nearer to a tube station than he has to any horrid working class people at any time in his safely cosseted little life - least of all at midnight.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:32 (nineteen years ago) link

OTM

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:34 (nineteen years ago) link

I imagine Mumsy has always driven him everywhere he's wanted to go in the 4x4.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:37 (nineteen years ago) link

Classist remarks a go go

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:43 (nineteen years ago) link

OK, you're right, I completely and unreservedly retract that last statement.

It could perfectly easily have been a Volvo estate rather than a 4x4.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:45 (nineteen years ago) link

I am particularly taken with this alternative reading:

She'll be lining up the cutlery,
you know she's expecting me.
'Bollocks in a glass' he said, pulling out the cork.

This shows the narrator (or "Charles", as we should perhaps start calling him) vainly attempting to "bond" with his potential attackers... even trying to buy them off with a slug or two of sparkling Shiraz.

mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:46 (nineteen years ago) link

Yes yes yes, that's all very well, but you seem to missing the most important questions that this raises, namely: Who the hell's Big Alan and what the hell has he got to smile about, while Charles is down in the tube station at midnight getting his head kicked in?

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:50 (nineteen years ago) link

Anyway, the guy who was down in the tube station at midnight couldn't possibly have been Charles, because - as everyone who was about in 1978 will surely be able to confirm - Charles got a job in a factory, drilling sheet metal from six till three.

So even when his did worked extra hours for a better wage and got lost in his task quite needlessly, he'd still have been safely home with the curry long before midnight!

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:53 (nineteen years ago) link

Hello, this is your friendly Woking expert. Thank you for thinking of me back in February 2002, I am touched.

Right, see, Woking Station has a stinky, pissy underpass and if you come through it from the south and walk a few yards up Broadway, there's an Indian restaurant which used to (still does?) have as its unique selling point CURRIES AT 1978 PRICES, 1978 being the year it opened, so that's about £4.50 then. Unfortunately, the curries are also of 1978 quality, but there you go. And if you'll consider this map here you will notice that it is just around the corner from one Stanley Road. So, the theory is that Weller is writing about an environment with which he is familiar, but changing 'train station' to 'tube station' to make it seem all glamourous like.

With regard to the issue of whether or not Asian people are more or less likely to get takeaway curries, there used to be a curry house on Walton Road (off Stanley Road, see?) which did truly excellent proper pakistani food to which several of my asian pals were sent to purchase dinner for several when their mums couldn't be bothered to cook. Unfortunately, the truly excellent curry house was closed down because of druggist dealings in the room upstairs and the rub 1978 restaurant is still there. However, he is not a Good Muslim if his wife is pouring out the vino.

Another interesting fact about Woking is that a charred corpse was discovered in the park the other day.

I can give no insight into plums, sorry.

Madchen (Madchen), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:55 (nineteen years ago) link

Uh, just one small problem: surely the station at Woking is a mainline train station, not a tube station?

Woking's not actually on the underground, is it?

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 14:04 (nineteen years ago) link

So, the theory is that Weller is writing about an environment with which he is familiar, but changing 'train station' to 'tube station' to make it seem all glamourous like.

Madchen (Madchen), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 14:08 (nineteen years ago) link

No, he could be in an underground trying to get TO Woking.

btw. the shout is "Hey Bwoy" as in "Slave" which is what black people are to any dumb racist, yeah?

mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 14:09 (nineteen years ago) link

"Down in a tunnel under a mainline station" doesn't quite scan, you're right...

___ (___), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 14:10 (nineteen years ago) link

I think you'll find Madchen addressed that point.

I believe I have traversed that underpass - maybe my hair grew a little longer, maybe my shoes were a little sharper as I did so. Didn't get my head kicked in, so there is no conclusive proof that the "vibes" of that time are still hanging around

Porkpie (porkpie), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 14:11 (nineteen years ago) link

Maybe there was some sort of massed hysteria that affected everyone who was living in Surrey in 1978, convincing them that they actually lived in London.

Mr. Weller thought Woking was on the tube; Jimmy Pursey thought you could hear the sound of Bow Bells in Hersham....

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 14:13 (nineteen years ago) link

.... The Stranglers sang about London Lady when they were actually from Guildford....

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 14:17 (nineteen years ago) link

".... there's an Indian restaurant which used to (still does?) have as its unique selling point CURRIES AT 1978 PRICES, 1978 being the year it opened, so that's about £4.50 then"

I don't think a curry could have anything like that much in 1978.

According to my calculations, if a curry cost £4.50 in 1978 (which I find very difficult to believe anyway, since a pint cost less than 50p in 1978!) and the cost of curries had risen in line with the UK RPI it would now be aproximately £17.34.

I'd be very surprised if a curry in 1978 cost much more than about £1.00 - £1.50.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 14:32 (nineteen years ago) link

No wait, stupid me, they introduced VAT on hot food after 1978 didn't they? So if a curry cost £4.50 in 1978 then the current equivalent would be more lke £20.00!

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 14:36 (nineteen years ago) link

Moving on... because there's still plenty in this song to obsess about...

Mr. Jones got run down.

I still find this curious. Even in 1978, newspapers were no longer quite this formal and deferential. Surely this isn't simply a case of a young and still impressionable Weller getting carried away and trying too hard to ape his hero Ray Davies?

Instead, I submit that this was a local newspaper, and that the photograph on the front cover depicted someone of the narrator's acquaintance: A neighbour maybe, or a shopkeeper, or a prominent member of the Woking Rotary Club. (("My God, that's poor old Jonesie...")

Or - and here it gets really interesting - could this news item actually refer to the untimely demise of Semi-Detached Suburban Mister Jones? If so, then this represents a breathtaking leap of daring on Weller's part.

mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 14:40 (nineteen years ago) link

in the 60s song I think it's "semi detached suburban mr james". Is Weller eliptically riffing on some kind of borgesian concept of the inherent meaninglessness of taxonomies, nomenclature etc?

dave amos, Tuesday, 7 September 2004 14:44 (nineteen years ago) link

Dear Stewart Osborne,

Please stop (a) failing to properly read things I have written and (b) not believing me about the price when I have eaten there.

Cheers pal.

Madchen (Madchen), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 14:46 (nineteen years ago) link

So not a reference to Corporal Jones from Dad's Army (and hence indicative of how the UK and it's government had evidently ceased to care about the brave soldiers who'd risked everything to fight the fuzzy-wuzzies on our behalf) you don't reckon?

http://www.i-way.co.uk/~tristang/DADS/jones.JPG

"They don't like it up em sir, etc. etc."

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 14:48 (nineteen years ago) link


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