turntable help

reposted from another thread (threads, actually, my mistake(s))

I think I'm going to get a new set of Shure cartridges
I'm looking at these and realizing that it might be worth the extra 17 (X 2) dollars to step up to something better, namely the M44-7, especially if it's going to have a significantly longer life than a more entry level cartridge.

I really don't know anything about needles, I'm changing them now because I got a pair that came with used turntables and I'm afraid they're worn out (there's skipping here and there, sometimes I have to raise the counterweight, etc.), but ultimately I have no idea. I'm not playing at clubs or on a HiFi system, so I'm not sure (not shure?) what difference it ultimately makes for someone like myself.

― EDB, Tuesday, September 15, 2009 8:32 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

It's going to wise to change your cartridges if they've seen a lot of use as they wear down, and eventually get to a point where they might start damaging your records.

Always set the weight of the cartridge to the maximum recommended by the manufacturer - less weight could mean the arm may bounce up and down, again damaging records. As a general rule, hi-fi carts are set to around 1.5g, house and techno DJ carts where some back-cueing is used are around 3.5, and scratch DJs will use at least 5g to lessen the possibility of skipping.

Records skipping can sometimes just mean the records are damaged of course.

It's always good to have some spare cartridges around just in case anyway - they'll last virtaully a lifetime if not used.

I'm sure you know this, but for anyone who doesn't:

http://www.ehow.com/how_4886060_set-turntable-tracking-weight.html

Actually ignore that - it's good up until point 4, which seems plain wrong. Just turn the counterweight to the required number which should correspond to the weight you are after. If setting DJ tracking weights you may need to add a weight to the headshell (very often this will be a small coin held on with blutack!)

The link that should have been where I wrote that was lost, so there it is again.

Thanks, though. Mainly I'm mixing records, so I'm concerned about wear. At this point I'm definitely going to buy new cartridges, the question is whether the M44-7 is worth the extra $17 (times two, $34) dollars over the M92E for a bedroom DJ like myself, looking in the long run (i.e. how long these will last for, etc.)

Sorry, can’t help you there, I’ve always been an Ortofon man myself. The main thing to take into consideration with wear is that a spherical diamond will damage records much less when back-cueing, but will not have the clarity of an eliptical diamond.

Well I got cartridges and everything is set up (properly, I hope). My question now is what's the deal with this screw in the cartridge at a 23% angle business? I've had Stanton cartridges which came pre-angled, but turned clockwise, and with a straight tone arm if that makes a difference?), but otherwise I am again in the dark, but it seems to make sense, and better tracking is better tracking...

Are there potential pitfalls to this? If it's angled at say 15, 20 percent will it make a difference?

Thanks.

You can get pfs of protractors to help with alignment. Make sure you print at 100%

http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge-alignment-protractors.shtml

I've just used the 'stupid protractor' in the past. Haven't bothered the last few times tbh.

An hour researching on google and I still have no idea how to use that.

You just print them out, make a hole where the blank dot is and then place it on your turntable to see if the cartridge lines up (more or less) in both positions when viewed from above. Simples.

So, when do you know when it's time to replace styli?

When your music sounds like shite! How long have you had it, and how much music do you listen to a week?

The first sign for me is always that LPs start to sound a little fuzzier toward the center of the record.

I've used them for awhile, like since September, actually, and kind of frequently too. It's not skipping, but stuff is sounding pretty scratchy (though not neccesarily fuzzy, or like the frequencies aren't right), which is getting very annoying. I can't tell whether it's the records or the styli. The other thing is that harsh midtones are getting fuzzy, but only on the left channel, and that's been happening for a long time now.

There's no easy way unless you buy a turntable clock. They're cheap, about $30, though I've seen them for less, and they're really easy to set up. Anyway, when your clock reaches 500 hours, it's about time to buy a new stylus.

I think the idea is that you replace the needle before you hear any wear. Because if it sounds different, it's probably damaging your records. If 500 hours is the standard time period, I tend to think about how many albums I listen to a week, figure even though they are usually 40 minutes or so I can call that an hour, and then think about how long it should last given that.

Everything will start to sound strained and thin. Remember that the bass info is at the bottom of the groove and that a dull, rounded-off stylus doesn't get down there to get it.

Now this is strange. The New Stylus is skipping where the old one doesn't.

Also, does anyone else here use Shure M44G cartridges?

I'm never certain about my counterweights, either, since it's very difficult to set mine at 0 because it always jumps back to the set groove on the tonearm. All very strange and disconcerting.

Is it possible to ever get a set up that ever fucking works properly? I hate this, it's this sort of bullshit that makes me hate turntables.

anyone have any fruitful advice on this?

I use a little Vestax Handy Trax hooked up to my tuner:

http://www.derringers.com.au/product_images/k/267/handytrax__54270_zoom.jpg

and recently after playing a bunch of 45s I switched back to 33 and noticed all my LPs were playing too fast, not 45-fast but faster than 33. I tried adjusting the pitch and even opening up and cleaning the thing, but it is till playing too fast. Any ideas what the likely problem would be, and whether I can fix it/get it repaired or should finally get a big, grownup turntable?

Thanks, guys

weird... have you tried switching the speed back and forth a few times? and is there any way you can open the unit and take a look at the belt?

my old Realistic TT used to get stuck on 45, I ended up having to oil the pushbutton switch.

I opened the unit but I don't see the belt. What should I be looking for?

you can most likely lift the turntable platter off the rest of the unit. if you do this, you'll probably see a rubber belt (like a large rubber band) that connects the turntable to a small spindle. the belt is the mechanism by which the spindle's rotation is transferred to the platter.

assuming the vestax is a belt-drive unit...

good point, it might be direct drive. anyway, I was thinking that if you could find the belt there might be some obvious misalignment - it rests in different spots on a spindle depending on whether you're at 33 or 45.

if it's direct drive (no belt) then the problem might be with the motor itself, which is probably time-to-get-a-new-turntable territory.

http://www.vestax.com/v/products/detail.php?cate_id=109&parent_id=10
http://www.verygoodplus.co.uk/showpost.php?p=210988&postcount=2

hey thanks!

Sorry guys I just got back to this thread,

I can't figure this out for the life of me....
I have a Sony PS250lxh turntable (essentially, everything is fixed except the needle), and upon changing the needle yesterday to another one of the exact same type, it now seems the tonearm or something is out of wack as the housing for the needle now drags across the surface of records. But there seems to be no option for adjustment. Anyone got any quick fixes for that sort of thing? I am currently trying to figure out the correct minute amount of bluetack to put under it....

Are you sure the stylus is seated correctly (there's a little plastic tab t the back that has to slip into a slot on the cartridge, I think)?

Also the needle is protruding below the bottom of the stylus, right? Just want to make sure you didn't get sold a bum needle.

tried the revised instructions?

Man stuff like this makes me so grateful to live in the same city as the needle doctor, those guys will do a free install and balance when you buy anything in store

meisenfek, I was about to be like 'ah! A solution!' but that's actually printed on the player itself! Thank you, though.

Gott punch (absolutely champion username btw), the needle is, but not by much and certainly not as much as the old one. It's completely connected right, as according to those instructions (iffy with my terminology, I bought a replacement stylus not needle, but same difference with something like this).... Is it a terrible idea to try and gently stretch force it down so it's further away from the stylus? Because if not, think I've been sold a ringer although I'm not sure how. It looks exactly the same as the old one....

Anyone know any good hi-fi shops in East London? would rather have that sort of service than buying this sort of shit off ebay again.

I wouldn't try to bend the needle down, you'd be just as likely to damage it as fix it, or bend it out of alignment. You might want to contact the seller and explain the situation and see if you can get a replacement.

Otherwise you might be best off finding a shop that sells turntables there and asking for help - we sell and install needles where I work and it's much easier diagnosing these things in person, which is probably not too surprising!

BTW I use stylus and needle interchangeably, I should probably say base to refer to the plastic part the stylus/needle protrudes from.

one thing you can do, though this is p obvious, is to get your eye right down in there so's you can clearly see the contact between needle and vinyl. the needle should be angled down w its tip a few millimeters below the cartridge & needle assembly. where it comes in contact with the vinyl, there should be a little downward-facing point. when this point comes in contact with the vinyl, the weight of the tonearm should compress the needle so that its angle is reduced about 50%. i.e., if the vertical distance from cartridge/needle assembly to the pointy tip of the needle is 3mm, then after it comes into contact with the record, that distance should be reduced to about 1.5mm by the weight of the tonearm. if you get down in there and look carefully with good lighting, the mechanics of all this will be pretty easy to sort out.

Thanks! It's coming along slowly, but now it's only doing it at the very end of 180gm records, whereas before it'd do it on everything - turns out I'd knocked the (thingy you slot the stylus into) a little to the right whilst probably changing the needle, so it was sitting at a slightly wrong angle. I guess now I find the absolute perfect angle....

so i have a 1210 mk2 deck with severely drifting and erratic tempo - any ideas how much these things take to get fixed, or with replacement parts etc? im wary of throwing money at this with little reward

you got any hunches as to what it could be? does it do it in all pitch fader positions? have a look to make sure there isn't anything dodgy looking inside. sometimes the magnet on the bottom plate loses its magnetism. anyway, spare parts are fairly easy to get hold of and nothing costs much more than £50, so you're probably looking at around £100 w/service

happens in all pitch positions and its quite pronounced, which makes me worry its more than getting a replacement pitch control, at which point not sure how expensive it gets

in that case, it's probably the magnet, the pitch control IC chip or a dodgy capacitor somewhere, all of which cost less than a tenner... good luck :)

bizarrely today the turntable isn't exhibiting any issues - it was ludicrously bad yesterday, not sure what to make of it

dear all.
i have a basic old school project debut turntable.
this weekend the bugger started skipping on everything.
mint never played before 12", classics, the lot, as soon as the needle hits the deck, skippety skip.
now, there is little configuring of this machine - a simple antiskipping device with 3 weighting options to prevent skipping.
i have tried all of the options - no difference.
i cant adjust the weight as its all configured.
only thing i can think of : new needle time ?
would that help, or is it something else ?
ta.

odd....did anything happen to it that you can think of?

i've had pretty good luck contacting customer care people at more "audiophile" companies via email, they tend to have pretty decent support....that might be a good first line of inquiry.

cheers for advise upper - was about to head that route after going through various forums for advise - which always mentions the more complex decks, but there really is little to do with this version.
however, i think i've cracked it !
the tone arm lift thing was not settling down properly, meaning the arm was not coming down completely.
with a torch (the deck is in a dark corner), i spotted an adjustment screw for the tone arm lift
.. tightened that a little et voila !
carpenters in perfection with no skipping.
phew .. .

ah cool! i was kind of flummoxed because i have a Rega P1 (very similar/comparable turntable) and those things are so damn minimal in design it's almost like there's nothing that COULD go wrong outside of all-out motor failure or a problem with your set-up

I've finally started replacing my completely ruined 80's vintage receiver/amp/speaker setup piece by piece. The old stack of stuff had an integrated amp/phono line in, but my new receiver doesn't, so I've gone with a cheap, basic Pyle preamp. For whatever reason, there's no ground screw, or at least no screw specially designated as ground. Apparently it should look like this:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51qtMGDk2yL.jpg
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51SWbgrFjmL.jpg

I mean, I have that screw, it's holding the case shut, but there's no metal washer behind it. Should I just ignore it and ground the turntable directly to the receiver? Please assume I'm a complete idiot; this is the first time I've actually set up a sound system instead of just inheriting one.

You can ground it to the preamp case without a washer perhaps (just secure one part of the horseshoe shaped contact). Or buy a washer.

The only turntables I've ever had have been cheapo Vestax-type things. I don't have a stereo system.

What advice would you give a *total idiot* about what turntable they should buy? Here's one of my many stupid questions: Can you plug a turntable directly into speakers?

I guess I have about £400 to spend. Is that too little for anything decent?

Can you plug a turntable directly into speakers?
in order to do that you need a turntable with a built-in pre-amp and powered speakers
it's more common to have passive speakers and a turntable that need to be connected through an amplifier/ receiver.
not sure how it is in the uk, but i would recomend buying a used turntable, i have a technics direct drive, that despite being basically the bottom of the line model in 1981 has never needed repairs other than changing the cartridge. they're workhorses and sound good enough, imo. audiophiles will tell you belt driven turntables sound better.

for four hundred pounds you can get a really good turntable, but you also need a receiver and probably a preamp/phono stage

yup I switched to the AT-VM95ML and huge improvement over I think an Ortofon Red

speakers as the cheapest part, really?

If I were starting over and buying new I’d probably go with something like:

Integrated amp: Yamaha A-S301 - $350 (sometimes available as a refurb for $300)
Speakers: Triangle BR03 - nice sale at Adorama right now, $230-$290 depending on finish
Turntable: U-Turn - best one I could get depending on how much I paid for the amp and speakers

calstars in nyc iirc, which is a really competitive and expensive market for used gear

And yeah, I actually switched to an AT-VM95ML a couple of months ago, inner groove distortion disappeared!

is it easy to fit an AT to a rega planar

apparently it’s a skoosh

when I put on the new cart I used one of those print-out protractors to align it, turned out to be a waste of time because if you're using the AT headshell it's already aligned properly.

Microline stylii absolutely changed my life. No inner groove distortion ever again. It was incredible to realize that the final song on every side of every record didn't have to sound distorted.

I can highly recommend the AT-VM95ML. I've also had great results with the AT440MLb.

I splurged a bit last year and got my first moving coil type stylus and it is a revelation. AT-OC9XML, also by Audio Technica.

for me the biggest audio upgrade was going to a microline stylus, the AT-VM95ML if you're curious. it was $150 for the cart (if you have an AT turntable you already have the headshell) and not only did the records sound better but it basically eliminated inner groove distortion. plus they last like 2-3x as long as regular carts.

I want to fourth this recommendation. Only problem is they spoil you for normal stylii and when it's time to replace they're obvs a fair bit more spendy than straight ellipticals (but totally worth it)

I found out about it via the Steve Hoffman forums, I hate to say it but if you have serious audio questions you may want to ask those folks. they're obnoxious but they know their shit.

I had that same Denon model before my dad gave me his Pro-Ject debut, it was a solid deck!!! I did have to get under there and blindly twist a tiny screw to adjust the speed at one point.

and yeah I have that same at stylus too! wow, inner groove distortion just melts away

Buying used basically doubles your spending power.