Ask Geir Hongro

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Well, there is a lot of great jazz, but also some I absolutely cannot stand. I don't really understand jazz the way the people who are into it expect a jazz listener should though.

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:51 (seventeen years ago) link

What Ulver discs have you heard, Geir? They seem like someone you might actually like... Scott/Phil to thread for recomendations...

― NYCNative, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:53 (seventeen years ago) link

I may have heard Ulver and I may not. I know I have heard Satyricon and Dimmu Borgir, and they are seen as sort of the most "accessible" within the genre. I just don't tolerate grinding or fast metal guitars.

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:53 (seventeen years ago) link

xposts

OK, but not too dissonant then.

I don't think you mean that, either! Part of the compositional chops of bands like The Beatles, The Beach Boys, and The Zombies was clear in their effective use of dissonant chords that less talented pop songwriters wouldn't go near. Anybody can write a nice consonant, tonal song with only I IV and V - but McCartney and such knew how to throw in those diminished sevenths and augmented chords and what have you. That's why they were good!

But really, the chord changes I like best are more about modulations to surprising keys. My all-time favourite chord-change is the sudden and unprepared change from C-major to F-major at the start of the middle-eight in "From Me To You".

I think I've seen you say that before and I thought it was weird then, too. Modulating from C to F is completely unsurprising, the modulation in this case is a pivot chord modulation and is not sudden and unprepared, and it's far from the most remarkable or unexpected harmonic trick The Beatles employed.

So I'm still a bit perplexed.

― St3ve Go1db3rg, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Modulating from C to F is completely unsurprising

In rock, in 1963, it wasn't.

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Geir-

Would you like an Oink Invite?

― Oink Administrator, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:56 (seventeen years ago) link

In rock, in 1963, it wasn't.

I still don't buy it. I'm sure if I felt like looking I could find earlier pop songs that modulated from I to IV. In any case, even if you were listening to it in 1963 (which you weren't, were you?) there's no way you'd call that a surprising key change.

― St3ve Go1db3rg, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 00:08 (seventeen years ago) link

I mean, the standard 12-bar blues progression basically contains that I to IV modulation, albeit not exactly, and isn't treated as such in the blues idiom.

― St3ve Go1db3rg, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 00:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Geir,

May I start a synth-pop project called Hungry Hungry Hongro?

Cheers,

― Curt1s Stephens, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 00:24 (seventeen years ago) link

I still don't buy it. I'm sure if I felt like looking I could find earlier pop songs that modulated from I to IV.

This isn't just about modulating from I to IV. More like the way it was doing it. After all, it took three chords to actually get to the new I.

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 00:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Geir, if it's your fave it's your fave, and I'm not trying to convince you that it isn't - but there's really nothing special about that modulation. I'll give you that it's slightly more sophisticated than when the same sort of thing pops up in a song like Hey Jude or Something, where it'll go I -> V7/IV -> IV (although something makes it more chromatic by sticking the Imaj7 in there) because in this case you've got I -> ii/IV -> V7/IV -> V. But it's still not crazy or unusual or anything, and it's so brief that it's debatable whether or not it's really a modulation.

― St3ve Go1db3rg, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 00:51 (seventeen years ago) link

And I think the I -> ii/vi -> V/vi -> vi in Yesterday is a lot cooler.

― St3ve Go1db3rg, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 00:52 (seventeen years ago) link

because in this case you've got I -> ii/IV -> V7/IV -> V

And obviously I meant IV, not V at the end there.

― St3ve Go1db3rg, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 00:53 (seventeen years ago) link

Geir, what do you think about "avant prog" bands such as Samla Mammas Manna, Henry Cow and Magma?

― Matt #2, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 01:14 (seventeen years ago) link

actual theory on ilm is getting me all hot and bothered

― Hans Rott, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 02:04 (seventeen years ago) link

Geir, I have been meaning to ask you for some time - what do you think of Gesualdo's music?

― moley, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 02:14 (seventeen years ago) link

I'd like to know if you like Jonathan Richman, Geir. If so, which period of his career do you enjoy the most?

― everything, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 02:24 (seventeen years ago) link

nabisco you have a point!

-- Hans Rott, Monday, April 30, 2007 6:56 PM (3 hours ago)

you might even say he's......OTM!

-- M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, April 30, 2007 6:59 PM (3 hours ago)

^^^^m@tt i don't tell you often enuf how much i <3 you

― ghost rider, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 02:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Geir, does being the ILX punching bag get you down?

― libcrypt, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 03:25 (seventeen years ago) link

The last question intrigues me the most, but the pacifist thing kinda answered it prematurely I suppose...

I feel the great Hongro question that has loomed for over a decade internationally is why do you not believe in the "apples shouldn't be compared to oranges" theory?

Can't you just say you don't like apples while rating oranges? Or saying "if an apple is sweet enough, I can eat it, but I'm no real fan of apples"?

Seems you do that for Jazz, but can't for Funk/Rap/Techno/et al, which I believe is what has made you the punching bag.

Also, do you have any real interest in understanding the incredible nuances of race relations in the US that defines and guides so much that is at the foundation of popular music? A closer perspective on a relevant point...

― PappaWheelie V, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 03:53 (seventeen years ago) link

I'll answer that last question for you Geir: "Fuck Off"

― everything, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 04:23 (seventeen years ago) link

Good day to you , Geir!

Are you a fan of the productions of Joe Meek ("Telstar," Have I The Right")? Have you heard his early '60s concept album I Hear a new World?

I would imagine that recent Scott Walker music would be abominable to you, but are you a fan of his '60s output?

and where do you stand on Randy Newman? Does his froggy voice compromise what would otherwise seem like music that you like very much?

― Veronica Moser, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 13:17 (seventeen years ago) link

At the peak of their 90s prowess*, did you prefer Ole Gunnar Solskaer or Torre Andre Flo?

*Their footballing prowess, not the rival folk albums they cut in 1997.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 13:27 (seventeen years ago) link

Mr Geir, have you taken drugs? And if so, which ones, and how did they affect your appreciation of non-melody-based music, if at all? I only ask because I didn't really "get" dance music until I had a dose of MDMA. I started to understand how dance music builds and surges in the same way as classical or early romantic, but may have sounds and beats instead of melodic themes, and it's these that are twisted and played with.

I only ask because your current position is very similar to mine 10 years ago before I had indulged, so I wonder if you had taken a similar journey to me but ended in a different place.

(Also because although Mozart is awesome, listening to him on E is horrific)

― The Wayward Johnny B, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 13:51 (seventeen years ago) link

We've kind of done this already though.

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 13:53 (seventeen years ago) link

hoping that third time's a charm:

paul mccartney or brian wilson?

and have you not answered this one so far 'cause you simply missed it, you're bored, you're sleeping or you're unwilling to make a choice?

― fact checking cuz, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:20 (seventeen years ago) link

Did we ever find out what you think of Spoon, Geir? I remember a thread from a couple of years ago, in which you complained that no contemporary song-driven guitar band ever got any ILM love, and everyone was screaming SPOOOON!!! at you in defence, and I don't recall you ever replying.

― mike t-diva, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:55 (seventeen years ago) link

steve quit answering for geir!!!!!

― M@tt He1ges0n, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 15:04 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah steve shut up!!!!!

― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 15:05 (seventeen years ago) link

He's Geir pro tempore.

― Curt1s Stephens, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 15:13 (seventeen years ago) link

steve quit ~~answering for geir!!!!!~~

― onimo, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 15:14 (seventeen years ago) link

I'll give you that it's slightly more sophisticated than when the same sort of thing pops up in a song like Hey Jude or Something,

That kind of modulation is great no matter where it pops up. And moreover important is the fact that all those three songs are SOOOOO much more sophisticated harmonically than anything that was heard in the "rock" genre before The Beatles. Before The Beatles it was just three chords. Mostly the same chords over and over, and in the exact same order on every song. That's what makes The Beatles genius. Surely, whatever they did was done before in Tin Pan Alley and classical music, but adding the sophistication of Tin Pan Alley and European classical music to rock music was exactly what made The Beatles great. Rock music was basically worthless before The Beatles while they managed to make rock good while adding the harmonic sophistication that 50s rock never had.

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 16:10 (seventeen years ago) link

you seriously don't like 50s rock n' roll geir? hating that stuff just seems like hating gummi bears and ice creams.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 16:13 (seventeen years ago) link

Geir, what do you think about "avant prog" bands such as Samla Mammas Manna, Henry Cow and Magma?

I haven't heard a lot by them at all. Generally, when it comes to prog I like all things melodic while I dislike all things non-melodic.

I'd like to know if you like Jonathan Richman, Geir

What I have heard seems to me as over-primitive, underproduced, repetitive and boring.

Mr Geir, have you taken drugs? And if so, which ones, and how did they affect your appreciation of non-melody-based music, if at all?

Never did and never will.

paul mccartney or brian wilson?

McCartney.

At the peak of their 90s prowess*, did you prefer Ole Gunnar Solskaer or Torre Andre Flo?

Hmmm. At the height of their prowess, it had to be Solskjær, considering I'm a Manchester United fan. But then, Flo has played for Vålerenga, which is even more important. Hard to pick. :)
But I think Solskjær was a better player. :)

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 16:15 (seventeen years ago) link

you seriously don't like 50s rock n' roll geir?

I don't like anything based on the 12 bar blues. Except for maybe the original, which nobody really knows who composed today.

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 16:16 (seventeen years ago) link

steve quit answering for geir!!!!!

-- M@tt He1ges0n, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 16:04 (1 hour ago)
yeah steve shut up!!!!!

-- Mr. Que, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 16:05 (1 hour ago)
He's Geir pro tempore.

-- Curt1s Stephens, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 16:13 (1 hour ago)
steve quit answering for geir!!!!!

-- onimo, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 16:14 (1 hour ago)

who me? i did nothing. i have no interest in this stupid thread.

― blueski, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 16:17 (seventeen years ago) link

I think they meant St3ve Go1db3rg, Blueski.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 16:20 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah i meant St#v# Goldberg

― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 16:21 (seventeen years ago) link

oh cool

― blueski, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 16:25 (seventeen years ago) link

That kind of modulation is great no matter where it pops up. And moreover important is the fact that all those three songs are SOOOOO much more sophisticated harmonically than anything that was heard in the "rock" genre before The Beatles.

Ok, sure, The Beatles made the "rock and roll" genre more sophisticated, even though they quickly moved on from that blueprint. My point is A) as key changes go (both in The Beatles catalogue and generally), that one doesn't stand out as particularly inventive or special, and B) even though you didn't hear that kind of thing in "rock and roll" pre-Beatles it was definitely done in popular music.

― St3ve Go1db3rg, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 16:29 (seventeen years ago) link

And The Beatles were apparently playing "Til There Was You" in 1962, which was written in 1959 and had similar twists to the most sophisticated Beatles songs.

― St3ve Go1db3rg, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 16:34 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't remember if I've offered this before, but Geir, you should definitely listen to Opeth's Damnation. I don't think you'd like the rest of their catalog, but that might do something for you. Also records by the Mat Maneri Trio, which is a semi-avant-garde jazz group utilizing microtones and a violin-bass-drums format.

― unperson, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 16:44 (seventeen years ago) link

I feel the great Hongro question that has loomed for over a decade internationally is why do you not believe in the "apples shouldn't be compared to oranges" theory?

Can't you just say you don't like apples while rating oranges? Or saying "if an apple is sweet enough, I can eat it, but I'm no real fan of apples"?

Seems you do that for Jazz, but can't for Funk/Rap/Techno/et al, which I believe is what has made you the punching bag.

I think this is the key question to be answered/addressed.

― Rock Hardy, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 17:03 (seventeen years ago) link

VM re-submits the above questions to GH re: Joe Meek, Scott Walker, and Randy Newman. He also is interested in the apples vs. oranges query…

― Veronica Moser, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 18:28 (seventeen years ago) link

Veronica Moser is a he?

― Rock Hardy, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 18:29 (seventeen years ago) link

Around here he is. Wake up, William!

― James Redd and the Blecchs, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 18:30 (seventeen years ago) link

fcc, I think you forgot to ask

geir: major or minor?

― James Redd and the Blecchs, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 18:37 (seventeen years ago) link

geir: arco or pizzicato?

― James Redd and the Blecchs, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 18:41 (seventeen years ago) link

Wake up, William!

I don't wake up for nobody 'less I get paid!

― Rock Hardy, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 18:57 (seventeen years ago) link

That's not what you said on the over 40 thread

― James Redd and the Blecchs, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 19:02 (seventeen years ago) link

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