Metal Box -- does anyone hate this as much as me?

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''Julio: Is Metal Box really part of the 'canon'?''

yes. I have seen it a couple of times on classic albums pages in music mags. it gets voted as one of the best alb of that period and it gets connected with the whole 'wasn't 1979, like, the BEST YEAR EVAH FOR MUSIC!'

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 10 January 2003 12:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

Maybe we should separate the terms "great singer" and "great vocalist".
I tried to, but nobodies buyin' it.

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Friday, 10 January 2003 15:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

"vocalist" is the lamest word ever: of course lydon is a singer, and dan perry is just wrong here

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 10 January 2003 15:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

Great album but I'd love a remastered CD.
Ned: Does the remaster clean up the sound (or resequence the brain-damaged track order)?

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Friday, 10 January 2003 15:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

Though Lydon had no problem with divas
Ye Gods. Now I'm hearing, in my head, Lydon singing the Whitney Houston version of "I Will Always Love You" and its rocking my world.

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Friday, 10 January 2003 15:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

haha way to make dan perry cry!!

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oiiiieeeeeeyyyyooooaaaaiiiieeee will awwwllwayssssss laaaaaaavvv yeeeeooouuuuu---eeee----yeeeeeoooouuu!

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

Stop! Stop the Insanity!

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

I AM NOT WRONG. The man has only sung FIVE NOTES in his entire career. He does so in a shrieky, histrionic way no matter what the song is. Jesus Christ, people!

By all means enjoy him if that's the style of vocals you like, but calling him a singer is very much like calling Biz Markie a singer for the bellowing he does on "Just A Friend".

(And to completely confound expectations, Lydon trying to do Whitney's version of "I Will Always Love You" is probably the FUNNIEST THING EVER.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:12 (twenty-one years ago) link

Biz Markie really feelz it on "Just a Friend," yo. Like to see Kathleen fuckin' Battle sing it with as much emotion.

Listened to Second Edition last night, gawd what a fucking great record, "vocalist" or not. Haterz are insane.

― hstencil, Friday, 10 January 2003 16:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

(And to completely confound expectations, Lydon trying to do Whitney's version of "I Will Always Love You" is probably the FUNNIEST THING EVER.)
I agree.

I AM NOT WRONG. The man has only sung FIVE NOTES in his entire career. He does so in a shrieky, histrionic way no matter what the song is. Jesus Christ, people!
His blood pressure is 260 over 100! Intensive care...Stat!

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:17 (twenty-one years ago) link

it's more more radical on 12" hstencil

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, listening to it at 45 rpm blows up banks, whereas at 33 rpm it just makes you wanna clean up your room.

― hstencil, Friday, 10 January 2003 16:30 (twenty-one years ago) link

real revolutionaries tidy their rooms as a matter of course < / my mum >

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:38 (twenty-one years ago) link

ha, well then I'm the next Karl Marx.

― hstencil, Friday, 10 January 2003 16:40 (twenty-one years ago) link

well, I have one of these 45's which I found at my local rec store in welling (oh yes, right in the big bargain thingy).

dan learned the def of singing at school. and we all know schools suck.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

I learned the definition of singing from listening to people who could sing.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

Like Biz Markie?

― hstencil, Friday, 10 January 2003 17:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

Custos: he's a blast to listen to
Dan Perry: I think in this case, "blast" means "shotgun blast to the temple".
Yes, Dan Perry. You are exactly right. Hit the blasting cap right on the
head there. Never has there been a better description of Lydons voice. He opens his mouth, stretches his rust-encrusted vocal cords and *Bladow!*

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Friday, 10 January 2003 17:19 (twenty-one years ago) link

mark stewart is a great singer though, eh? and he's worse than Lydon.

― gaz (gaz), Saturday, 11 January 2003 08:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

ok: logical analogy (not that i think there's a real analogy here, i'm just using this as a tool to unpack logical discrepancies, y'unerstand?) re: Lydon as a singer.

punk= impressionism
post-punk = post impressionism.

would you complain that Van Gogh could'nt paint?
because compared to social realist or other 19th C skools the guy has got NO CHOPS.

impressionism burst that bubble. like punk.

if Lydon doesn't convince you to buy into the misanthropic mood then, sure, you can consider him a crap singer.

Me? He sold me. Post-punk expressionism, he is the Van Gogh of vocalists maaaan.

btw: how would "real good singers" have coped with the themes of metal box? How owuld say, Ella, have interpereted all that claustrophic, dub influenced, post-punk, anti-corpotate after pistols angst? sweetly? or with a five-note off key whine?

― gaz (gaz), Saturday, 11 January 2003 09:23 (twenty-one years ago) link

metal box isn't misanthropic, it's sad!! it's about a hot love and a hot love project which failed (lydon + mclaren = the ruin of everything rubbish)

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 11 January 2003 10:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think you've got it. I just tossed my '2nd ed' in th' toilet.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 11 January 2003 10:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

yes, a lot of the lyrics are abt how much Lydon HATES mclaren's guts.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 11 January 2003 12:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

Which ones?

― Ben Williams, Saturday, 11 January 2003 14:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

I just listened to it the other night because of this thread. It's a pain in the ass getting the records out of the box; even shaking it took some time. Each disc is numbered so you can tell which side is which... sellouts!

― Sean (Sean), Saturday, 11 January 2003 16:30 (twenty-one years ago) link

as I've discovered from PIL videos on VH1 Classic Rock, John Lydon...at the very least, is lots of fun to watch dance around with bug eyes.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 11 January 2003 17:12 (twenty-one years ago) link

Classic Rock.

― Sean (Sean), Saturday, 11 January 2003 17:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

Nirvana's already classic rock. What's funnier is when Green Day will be.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 11 January 2003 17:38 (twenty-one years ago) link

Hey, one question: I got Metal Box on CD recently to replace my copy of 2nd Ed, but it has, like NO INFORMATION on it at ALL, including track listing. I know I could look it up or just remember which song was which, but was this version supposed to come with a round booklet or something? Just so I know I got hosed?

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Saturday, 11 January 2003 18:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

Getting hosed is part of the PiL experience! Anyway, the only thing the LP came with was the track listing.

― Sean (Sean), Saturday, 11 January 2003 19:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

''Which ones?''

'Albatross' is abt Mclaren for instance but I haven't looked up the lyrics in a while or heard it. maybe tonight.

sean: the metal box CD (with the metal case, which is what i have) doesn't have an info booklet but mine came with a small piece of paper with the track listing and who's in it (though it doesn't say what they do).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 11 January 2003 20:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

Would it be a pain in the ass for you to scan the paper for me, Julio, or at least just email me what's on it, so I can put a little note in the case?

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Saturday, 11 January 2003 21:14 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'll give you an email tomorrow sean (not tonight, my dad is telling me to get out of the phoneline.

I'll give you the tracklisting and who's in it.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 11 January 2003 21:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

actually for a while I thought Lydon sang on 'albatross' but in fact its Wobble's vocals (he does a good impression of Lydon, of course). Lydon comes in at the end of albatross with the 'Only the Lonely' bit.

heh...thanks to marcello again. was looking at 'Church of Me' and he did a write up on metal Box. go there.

I listened to some of the tracks again. Lydon's vocal on 'Chant' is prob my favourite. an example to every up and coming singer.

Look Dan, if you want great singing go to Lydon, albert ayler and Kurt schiwitters OK.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 11 January 2003 21:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

URL for marcello's blog: http://cookham.blogspot.com/

look at the entry for jan 8th

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 11 January 2003 21:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

Great blog. As for me, what Matos said. Either you feel this music in your bones or you don't. Metal Box says everything is NOT going to be alright. It's mocking, too, as if depression or fear were below it, and it makes me feel detached, grooving, fuck everything. The complete antipathy is also highly moral, which sets it apart from the nihilist pigfuck/no wave/goth it inspired. Like Sandinista!, it's more punk than most punk.

― Pete Scholtes, Saturday, 11 January 2003 23:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

if Lydon doesn't convince you to buy into the misanthropic mood then, sure, you can consider him a crap singer.

OTM, except for the condescending tone.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Sunday, 12 January 2003 13:40 (twenty-one years ago) link

sean- I've sent you an email regarding the track listing. hope you got it.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 12 January 2003 15:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

i'm fiarly sure that little slip of paper w.the track listing was inserted at the insistence of virgin: the band wanted to information of ANY KIND WHATEVER!! but pil on their part complained that virgin cost-cutting made the package more austere than they quite intended

i like that my can has completely rusted!!

― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 12 January 2003 17:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

could there be inaccuracies in the personnel here: who's jeannette lee and dave crowe?

levene's name is also spelt as 'leven'.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 12 January 2003 21:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

Dan, didn't mean to be condescending: will watch my tone in future!

also i always thought the albatross they were getting rid of was the notion of lydon as pop star/spokesman/punk prophet/working class hero (nad that was why Wobble sang it)

― gaz (gaz), Sunday, 12 January 2003 21:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

Julio--Jeannette Lee is the girl on the cover of 'Flowers of Romance', a member of the band during that lp and 'Metal Box'. A 'non-musician' member of the 'company', she supposedly worked as agent for the band and did PR. Was Keith Levene's gf for a while. Dave Crowe was apparently in the band from the start, another non-musician. Was one of Lydon's mates given a job as band secretary.

― robertw, Monday, 13 January 2003 15:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

Dave Crowe was their accountant.

― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 13 January 2003 15:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

Julio, it's actually stevienixed.com/churchofme - not cookham.blogspot.com! heheh

― nathalie (nathalie), Monday, 13 January 2003 15:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

Well I'm still posting on both, Nath, until I get around to transferring all the old archives. I don't know though - maybe I should just leave the Blogger CoM as the 2002 model and concentrate on Stevie Nixed's CoM as the new improved 2003 model! The latter certainly looks a heck of a lot easier to read.

― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 13 January 2003 15:17 (twenty-one years ago) link

there seems to be something wrong with the new site, marcello:
1. the title is cut off
2. i can't scroll up to the end of your latest post on atomised. my scroll bar is at the end in the middle of the article. you know what i mean?

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Monday, 13 January 2003 15:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

there are still teething troubles which need to be sorted out which is why i haven't "officially" changed over yet. click on archives for january 2003 and you should get the whole thing.

― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 13 January 2003 15:44 (twenty-one years ago) link

''Julio, it's actually stevienixed.com/churchofme - not cookham.blogspot.com! heheh''

ah!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 13 January 2003 15:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

for the moment, julio, it's both.

― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 13 January 2003 15:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

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