The Micro Four Threads Third

X1 announced! less exciting than I thought it would be. basically a fixed lens w/ an APC-S sensor, no optical finder. you could get a E-P1 or GF1 kit with a 35mm/2.8 or 40mm/1.7 equivalent for less than half the price. but that's always been the rub with Leica hasn't it?

I'd seriously consider selling everything and a kidney if it had an optical finder - would just be like using one of the old fixed lens rangefinders, like a Canonet or Oly RC.

also makes me feel better about my E-P1 having a "cheap" LCD when the X1 has one that's 1. smaller and 2. the same res!

GF1 reviewed over at DPReview, and tbh, I think it would suit my needs much better than the E-P1...

picked up a 20mm 1.7 the other week; some usability issues on the E-P1. hoping a firmware update will improve things

Had an extended play with the Panasonic G1, GF1 and Oly E-P1 in a store over the weekend; the G1 is really terrific, I think. The way it handles (that rubberised body!), the speed of the AF, the clarity of the EVF. Really impressive.

G1 is also the cheapest of the bunch - you can probably pick up a used G1 body in the US for $3-400 on the 'Bay

NB, the rubberized coating is said to be flimsy and will wear off after extended use

so: i'm debating between the G1, GH1, GF1, and the Oly?

i don't see the advantage that the g1 has for its extra size - you'd be better off going with a larger sensor dslr i think. the gh1 looks better if you're into video, otherwise i think it's the gf1 for its portability - supposedly faster autofocus and better screen would swing it for me over the olympus.

i'm just going on specs and samples though, sure that dyao has more insight.

Yeah, from all the reviews I've been seeing, the EP-1 is pretty great, but the GF-1 is all kinds of better at focusing.

the ability to do video is actually pretty tempting, to be honest, but the GF1's portability is v appealing

going to B&H in Manhattan on Monday to check out:

GF1
LX3
G11
Kx (thanks, ledge)

GF1 looks amazing but, of course, $$$

what are your requirements gbx? I think there are two big factors in choosing among the current crop of M43 cameras:

viewfinder - are you absolutely sure you don't need a viewfinder? choosing a GF1 opens you to an optional electronic viewfinder, but the current attachable one for the GF1 is not as good as the built-in one for the G1/GH1 nor the attachable one for the E-P2 (which is not cross-compatible, sadly)

focusing speed - do you expect DSLR-like focusing speed? GF1 has this, plus is all around more responsive than an E-P1 (which can be a little sluggish, especially if you're changing a lot of settings at once).

my personal recommendation would be a GF1 kit with the 20mm - perfect all rounder. the main advantage of the GH1 is that it comes with a nice, video-ready 14-150 zoom with silent AF, and that it has a great EVF.

GF1 can also do video, just not 1080p I think - it has a dedicated video button which is more convenient than the video mode on the E-P1s dial. 720P is still pretty great - I shot this at my local coffee shop...sure it could look way better if I knew the first thing about post processing video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjvPKCMkW1Y

IMO the main advantage of a M43 system over a compact DSLR system is the portability. the shutter sound, although different than the mirror slap, can be just as obtrusive - IIRC you did a lot of people photography in Africa, so that might be worth considering, how obtrusive you want to be. the responsiveness is a little worse than even an entry-level DSLR (at least in the E-P1's case) - the GF1's supposed to be better. AF is almost as good or as good as an entry-level DSLR - but certainly won't be as fast as a top of the line Canikon.

also think about lens choice - at the moment I think there's only one killer lens out there right now for the M43 system and that's the Panasonic 20mm (40mm equivalent). however, the AF speed is not as fast as the 14-45, although it's still pretty fast. Panasonic and Olympus have released lens roadmaps and there's a 14mm (28mm equivalent) coming from Panasonic next year. NB prices for M43 stuff is still pretty inflated - for the price of a GF1 kit with 20mm you could easily get a secondhand DSLR with maybe 2-3 good lenses.

I think if you can afford to wait, next year's going to bring a lot of new stuff - if rumors are to be believed, other manufacturers are going to get into the mirrorless, large sensor compact camera market, which will drive prices down all around. as it stands right now, I think the GF1 is the best iteration of all the good things about M43 - portable, responsive, great image quality (if you process from RAW - its JPEGs leave a lot to be desired).

hmmm

thanks for the info! i'm only paying for part of this thing, as it is gonna be a xmas present from the fam. i AM mostly interested in people pictures, and will likely do everything RAW by default. i had fun with the pics i took this summer, and learning the ins and outs of processing actually appeals to me.

the lack of a viewfinder kinda annoys, but i guess the external one is ok?

ah actually the external one is pretty lame compared to the one built in to the G1/GH1 and the external one for the E-P2! maybe Panasonic will release a better one in the future?

one thing I forgot to mention is that the E-P1/E-P2 both have in-body image stabilization - basically the camera moves the sensor to compensate for any shaking of the camera. lets you shoot with a slower shutter speed - of course it won't help if your subject is moving, but it's great for still life, especially nighttime shots.

lol unfortunately nobody's released a "dream" M43 camera yet that has everything - yer gonna have to pick yer poison. I think the following links will be germane to your decision:

DPReview real-world comparison between GF1/E-P1
DPReview focusing speed comparison
Thom Hogan's GF1 review/E-P1 comparison
Mike Johnston (online photographer) compares the two part I
part II

in the end it's gonna be six of one, half dozen of the other. no matter which you get I think it'll be fine for people photography - people will just think you're using an oversized digicam, not a real professional SLR. hope it works out for you!!

GF1 Fieldtest

sounds like it was written by a panasonic pr rep. but whatever

Got the GF1 today, 20mm lens. And then dropped it on the pavement within the first hour.

By the time I got it light was gone for the day, so not a lot of fieldtesting. But it's a very pleasing device so far.

congratulations! share some pics when you get it up and running. look at it this way: you got the camera's first nick out of the way, now you don't have to be paranoid about it anymore. I dinged my E-P1 within the first three days

these are all using the iA mode

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2679/4201596047_77e565f386_b.jpg
should have used exposure bracketing on this one. blown out highlights in outdoors shots will be common, apparently.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2802/4201598971_04dd00989d_b.jpg
you may have heard that it snowed yesterday in nyc

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2662/4201609787_6607b823b0_b.jpg
this trip to the airport was such a failure i have to go back tomorrow

those look good! yeah I usually shoot at -0.3 EV, although if you shoot with the live histogram and dedicate a dial to changing exposure you can keep blown highlights in check

..>~pending~<..

btw what do you guys know about using an optical viewfinder (eg voigtlander) with the GF1? i've heard some say the 35mm is the best, others the 40mm

(for use with 20mm pancake, obv)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/atto77/4208165691/in/photostream/

guhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

think i'm gonna do this

I have a 35mm viewfinder with the 20mm pancake - I like it fine. I think the 35mm is better because you can see outside the 'edges' of the shot like in a rangefinder. however you won't know what you're focusing on/need to prefocus before you shoot.

read somewhere that the trick is to just listen for the autofocus to stop and then go with god

GF1: i spend a decent amount of time locking the AF and then re-framing, so that's a scary strategy for me.

i like ppl/editorial pics the best, and am kinda seat of the pants anyway, so firing away thru the OVF and checking the results later seems like it'll be a strategy that'll work for me

:D :D :D :D

so excited

♫ i own a camera ♫

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1389/1409492639_7867164d6b.jpg

waaaay too excited about this

I can promise you one thing: you'll annoy everyone around you by having the thing glued to your hand for the next few weeks. I'm still in that phase a month later. Good times.

congrats gbx!

i like ppl/editorial pics the best, and am kinda seat of the pants anyway, so firing away thru the OVF and checking the results later seems like it'll be a strategy that'll work for me

― into the young coconuts (gbx), Saturday, January 9, 2010 1:00 AM (13 hours ago) Bookmark

pro tip: for this kind of shooting, turn on multi-spot AF and face detection. it'll automatically focus on whatever faces are present

and gbx, post pics! i love seeing what i could theoretically someday achieve.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4013/4257598663_03901b6523_o.jpg

l-r: broek, gonna get an adaptor for that zeiss lens, <3

Ooh, what's the Zeiss lens on the Rollei? Is there a QBM-micro4/3 adaptor already out there? You might have to stack and go with QBM-M42-micro4/3.

I have an M42-mount Zeiss 135mm for my Canon (M42-EOS adaptor) and it's great.

yeah, i think i need two adaptors, so it'll be ungainly for sure

but it's a zeiss planar 1.8/50mm

that's a canonet right? what's wrong with it

film advance lever broek :(

also, got a leatherette kit for my lumix and it's pretty fly imo

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4023/4298169921_05fc4f1b03.jpg

nice looking skin gbx! I've got one for my E-P1 as well.

new E-PL1 has canon G11 proportions:

http://olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/images/product/1501/epl1_camera_hand.jpg

unfortunately no new primes announced, but that 9-18 looks interesting

whoah that thing is dinky!

Damn, they're talking only $600 for the kit, too. So I guess ~$1k for the body plus one of the primes...

yeah but it sounds like making "manual" adjustments might be a PIA

yeah this camera is not really aimed at 'serious' photogs

I keep on getting an urge to buy one of these cameras every time I open this thread - I really should stop reading it!

Possibly disagree on not being aimed at serious photogs - even without easy manual adjustments, it might be an ideal carry camera for when someone doesn't want to bust out the SLR and big-ass zoom.

I'm looking for a small camera, either in the Ricoh GR-D III range on up the Panny/Oly 4:3s - I'm always in spots where I wish I had a camera, but the D700/50 combo is pretty difficult to be casual with and I can't afford a $10k M9 in this lifetime.

The EP-2/VF would be a good option - even though AF sucks, you can zone focus and go hyperfocal when there's enough light - but I read that it resets the focus point every time you turn it off/on.

you can set it not to reset (it's how I keep my panny 20mm set). the real problem with that setup is that there is /no/ focal scale, on the lens or in the camera - no digital scale at all. so you always, always have to guesstimate, which is a real pain. one alternative would be using the digital body with a manual lens with a real focus scale. but then you'd have to do some real-time calculations since the focus scales are set up for 35mm film, and you'll need to compensate for the smaller circle of confusion/etc. of m4/3

X-T1 is weather-sealed too, I guess. If you look at the price diff between, say, Canon 5D3 and 1DX, it seems to mostly come down to build quality (shutter that will last 3x longer, tank-like body, huge capacity battery), but what the cameras can actually do is very similar. Perhaps that's the thinking here.

Quite what Fuji are going to do with the "flagship" X-Pro will be interesting.

My OM-D E-M10 crapped out - in order to get the back LCD to work I have to hard reset the device on startup.

Should I ...

(1) get this repaired
(2) buy an OM-D E-M10 Mk III
(3) something else

I miss my GF1.

Maybe look for sales? The E-M10 series can usually be had for a bargain somewhere. The Mk. III and IV are both pretty nice. Maybe consider a GX85 or GX9?

of course beating in mind that Olympus have discontinued all their cameras grrr (OM-D E-M10 mk 2 owner with some $ in glass here)

*bearing

OM Digital is still selling everything. Jury's still out on how the new company will fare long-term, but cautious optimism seems warranted. There are a couple lenses and at least a new camera body in the pipeline for 2021.

Yeah, certainly don't jump ship if you've got some glass. Panasonic released another m43 body last year, I think, even though they seem to be going all in on the FF line. Still lots of nice third-party primes out there.

Repair ££ likely = finding a good E-M10 on eBay.

Thanks, eBay it is!

also you can sell yr old one to someone who wants a crack at fixing it, or for parts.
I just watched an E-M5 mk II with case, accessories but no lenses finish up for $US370 equivalent here.

Yeah, good call.

What is the average lifespan of a (theoretically quality) digital camera, anyway? A bit bummed that they seem to be disposable, although I guess I should have expected it.

Maybe I'm lucky, but my 12-year-old LX3 is still used by my parents, and my original E-M5 is still ticking. Some bits age more poorly than others...rubber grip material deteriorates, mechanical connections and motors wear out. I think lack of suitable batteries will eventually be the showstopper, but there's no reason a digital camera shouldn't last a decade or more.

Yeah tbf I could have treated mine better, will try not to make that mistake with the next child.

My kids have fully functional DSLRs from 2003-05. Granted, they don't actually care to use them much (I bought the eldest an EF-S 24/2.8 four years ago and that's a great lens! Pah), but I picked up a couple of third-party batteries, so they should keep going for a bit.

The received wisdom I'd heard was that something else would give out on a camera before the shutter mech reached the end of its natural life, regardless of what it was rated for, but that hasn't been my experience. My 300D shutter packed in around the five-year mark (still in a drawer, dead), and my 40D started misfiring around the same age (replaced the mech, later sold). Fine in other regards. My 6D is still going strong after 107k actuations (nearly 8 years old), but top dial is a bit sticky now.

(I bought an absolutely battered X-T1 secondhand in 2018 too... that occasionally has card errors, but it does look like it was dragged across concrete at some point in its life. More disappointing was having to get the 27/2.8 pancake repaired; focus motor gear issue. Only three years old. You kind of hope the lenses at least last decades).

Haven't had a shutter mechanism fail yet, but I'm sure it will happen eventually with all the use I get from my bodies. An underrated benefit of modern bodies with usable electronic shutter — prolonged mechanical shutter life.