Depression and what it's really like

ZS don't feel bad. fwiw (not saying you did the wrong thing, don't feel embarrassed) this is the thread I post to when I've got that vibe: I'm sad home of Abbott the sad revivalist.

that's the one. I'd seen it before, I just couldn't remember the name. I need to create a bookmarks folder called "click here when you're in the midst of a downward drunken spiral"

The world really is your oyster, ZS. You are the best.

Jeez, that's a really nice thing to say, thanks!

Birds laying eggs in an interesting metaphor, Abbot. I always had the metaphor of "thoughtworms" from that Weather Prophets song. "I've got a worm in my brain, it brings me to my knees, it comes on like a thought, and stays just like a disease."

You think it's a thought, so you think it, but it doesn't go anywhere, it just goes round and round in circles and eats your brain, eats your actual thoughts, sucks the life and soul and happiness and joy right out of your head. It's kind of like a computer virus, but for a sentient brain.

The thoughtworms have been getting cleverer lately - they come on like thoughts about things I genuinely believe, they hide themselves inside philosophy and ideals. But they're still thoughtworms. It's taken some readjustment recently to try and understand that a lot of the things I have been thinking about Feminism are, actually, thoughtworms piggybacking on genuine beliefs to get into my head and destroy shit.

The thing that really gets to me, is how isolated I am. That my family live SO FAR away from me. I realised yesterday that I hadn't talked to my mum in two weeks, and that was part of why I was getting so far down. The thought that there was no one on "my side" at all. Living alone is bad for shit like that.

I used to have the "where does it come from" thread bookmarked for cases of emergency, but that's kind of been ruined now. :-(

If you are capable of finding the will to get up, take a shower and put on real clothes, all by yourself, then you haven't yet reached the last stage of incapacity, thankfully.

i recommend crawling to the hospital in filthy clothes if this is the case. saved my life once or twice. (not literally crawling, obviously. that would hurt.)

(i do recommend researching the hospitals first. though obviously if you've reached a certain point its time to cling to the first passing plank.)

When I was an adolescent, my family used to dump me in the Crisis Centre of the nearest Mental Hospital when my behaviour got more than they could handle.

I think this has created a long-lasting fear of ever going to a hospital or calling a help line or anything like that. The fear that I will be taken away and dumped somewhere.

;_;

it's a big fear to overcome. it took a LOT of stamina the first time. in a weird way, though, that was a pretty good indicator of will-to-go-on etc. even in hindsight.

for real!

my dad's mom was mentally ill - probably now she'd be considered bipolar, but this was the 60s - and after both my dad and his sister were off at college, she really lost it, and my grandfather just couldn't deal with it anymore and sent her to a mental institution and divorced her. I think that's probably my greatest fear - that something like that will happen to me, even though my problems aren't nearly as severe as hers.

the laws for involuntary commitment are a LOT different now. kind of a weird thing to use as a panacea but whatever gets you through the day.

iirc once you're over 18 your family can't do anything to direct or control your mental health choices

If you say that you are having thoughts about killing yourself, they can keep you as long as they like - I mean, until they can prove that you are no longer a danger to yourself.

It;s like this catch 22. I think about suicide all the time. This is normal for me, but usually it's only once or twice a day. When it becomes *constant* when it becomes thinking through methods (even if only to discount the ones I could never ever do because it would be too painful) - i *know* that that is the point at which I *know* I should get some help.

But if I tell anyone in the mental health profession that I'm having serious thoughts of suicide, they are obliged to report that and get me sectioned. Fuck that shit, I'm not going back there. Mental hospitals *make* you crazier than you ever went in.

maybe u.k./u.s. difference here, but i really don't believe that. different stokes, obvs, regardless of geography.

(by which i mean i don't want to discount anyone's opinions based on my own experiences, etc.)

xp - I don't know whether it was involuntary or not ... my parents and my dad's sister were all outside of the country when it happened. I don't know whether she died there (she died shortly before I was born), or whether she was only there for a little while.

Anyway, because of that, it's really important to me to have close friends outside of family/romantic relationships, so that I don't feel alone or dependent on ties to only a few people. My grandmother was the typical post-war housewife, and outside of her family, she had nothing - no real relationships with others, no means of supporting herself, etc.

What can a hospital do for you if you are in that kind of state?

I'm not asking rhetorically or cynically (though I am probably suspicious due to experiences) but genuinely want to know - I don't know. In the hopes it might be helpful?

I suppose I could just call my doctor and go and say "I'm depressed as fuck - this is a bad one" but what's he gonna do but fuck with my medication, and I don't have the sick time left if it goes wrong. I read that page Abbott recommended, and I suppose I need to follow some of the suggestions there - things I know do work, but I forget when I'm in the thick of it.

-get some more light, leave the house/basement office, stand in the sunshine even if I hate it

-do some light exercise, even if it's just getting on the machine for five minutes, it's better than nothing

I'll do that for a week, and if it hasn't started to lift, I'll go to the doctor.

I think as far as hospitalization goes - it's something if you can't take care of yourself (eat, clean, go to work, etc.) or as was mentioned upthread, if you're likely to try to take your own life.

well for me "going into the hospital" has always been the sort of thing where it's gone beyond "having the sick time." it's a point where work and everything else seems...not even secondary or tertiary. just not even on the game board anymore. i'm not recommending it as a first step at all.

That's what I like abt that site is she has you think abt what works for you when you're doing ok & then you have this checklist of things you know you need to do when you're so thick in it you can't think or see.

I suppose it's a good sign that I can still drag myself to work, even if I have been spending a good proportion of the day weeping in the loo. I haven't been that down as Strongo describes since I started this job. I was there in the last job, though. Got through that with booze, I'm sorry to say.

yeah, Abbott - I know all of those things on that list, there's nothing there I don't know. But it's stuff that I *forget* that it is there, or that it works. Or think "no, I'm too far gone for that" but then I remember it really is those little things that get you back from too far gone to hanging in there again.

I always fantasize abt getting hit by a car to have some 'sick time.' If I went to the hospital here w/a (mental/emotional) problem they'd cuff me to the bed, shove me full of atavan (sp?), charge me $500+ and kick me out. That's just here in Las Cruces, tho, YMMV obviously. No one can get on your case about getting hit by a car.

Got through that with booze, I'm sorry to say.

this.

I've been using way more alcohol than normal ;_;

Kate, I can't remember from previous posts, but how do you feel about counselling/talk therapy/etc? The westminster pastoral foundation - http://www.wpf.org.uk/ - has a network of places that focus on affordable counselling, both short and long term, which might not be immediately useful if you're at the worst of a slump but could be useful in making it manageable.

overuse of 'useful' there, marvellous.

Couldn't even do booze this time. In fact, booze was what brought this on, had a few whiskies and ended up having a twitter meltdown and broadcasting to the world that I wanted to die. :-( Still depressed and now everyone I know thinks I'm an attention seeking brat.

I have been on the mental health treadmill for 25+ years. At this point, there really isn't anything that any other counsellor could ever say to me or talk me through that would make a difference.

Sometimes I think maybe group therapy would be useful - because it's the isolation that is killing, and the way that "normal people" who have no experience with bipolar disorder just DO. NOT. UNDERSTAND. what the fuck it is like. That maybe talking to other people who go through this on a regular basis would be more helpful.

has anyone here had any good experiences with group therapy or support groups at all?

i have to say group therapy freaks me out far more than going to a hospital.

Why? How is it really any different to a thread like this, but without trolls and board lawyers watching?

because i'm a writer and more naturally inclined to type than to talk?

Makes sense, OK.

I just find that social isolation is one of my biggest problems, and one of the biggest triggers. Writing on the internet, for me (YMMV) often makes me feel more isolated, not less.

I'm just putting this link here to investigate tomorrow when I have a decent connection, it's the British Manic Depressive Fellowship - sorry, Bipolar Organisation.

http://www.mdf.org.uk/

For a support group to function, most of the members need to be fairly functional, or they can't offer much support. So, I guess this is a way of saying YMMV. I think that any if a group defined as in "group therapy", the chances are greater that most members of the group are currently a mess.

fwiw, a relative of mine's in group therapy and from what she's said I didn't get the impression that it was a group where most were a mess. The problem she was bringing was mostly related to workplace bullying and attendant depression, and it sounded like she got a lot out of talking it out with her group, which suggests to me that the people in it were either pretty functional or at least pretty good at being functional for the purposes of the group.

Group therapy: if it sucks, at least you can be taken out of your own inner world for a while by the distraction of what a dipshit everyone else is. Sort of like this Onion article. I've never done group therapy but I think it might be helpful. Ideally in the part of town that isn't the cottage industry of methlabs.

... uh oh.

oh?

yeah this

shit

in september i'm starting an 8-week, cbt-based group therapy program (more goal-oriented than traditional group therapy, so probably not as much aimless whining). my insurance is paying for it, so it couldn't hurt to give it a shot.

but my depression has been okay lately. it's a cliche but the california sun has been good for me.

whatever it takes, good luck with it jody

and if they don't work out doc robert is still on the case jody HE GOT YOU
http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0819/study-touts-horse-tranquilizer-ketamine-magic-antidepressant/

mine is employment-based, with the revelation that the temp gig i've been in for 3+ weeks might not last 4.

i was laid off for a couple months this year, i dont think i got depressed but i had plenty of panic attacks. i manufacture blind optimism but that was running out gradually. not sure therapy would help for a circumstance-based thing like that but i don't know much about that type of thing tbh.

are you with a temp agency or freelance? prospects?

I'm with several. The irritation is that this is the 2nd gig this summer that abruptly ended.

Life may be pointless but that doesn't mean it's meaningless.

I did join a gym today, so maybe that will help.

Kingfish I feel you man. I'm in the same boat atm and it's awful. I don't even have any temp agency prospects right now. Debating taking my MA off my resume and just applying for some retail jobs because fuck I need to do SOMETHING.