Grant Morrison S/D

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If only Seaguy #3 wasn't so horribly dark, I would have given in to everyone in the world. My partner now refuses to read any Grant Morrison after she read that.

We killed Chubby by not buying enough of issues of Seaguy to ensure the whole story gets told.

DV (dirtyvicar), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 16:19 (eighteen years ago) link

Leave me out of that "we", maestro-- I bought the series in singles AND the trade. I sure wish it wasn't true, though, as I'd much rather have had six more issues of Seaguy than the forty issues of Seven Soldiers we'll be getting, judging from the way things've been going so far. Shining Knight was utterly useless, Guardian was really only good for Stewart's art, Zatanna's been pointless, and Klarion's been pretty good, except I keep forgetting what I read in the last issue by the time the next one comes out. Come to think of it, Vimanarama was utterly shit, too. I think GM's been overextending himself in his effort to be a one man Stan Lee/Jack Kirby idea factory or whatever it is he's trying to be (other than employed) with all this production. Not that I'm not used to him overreaching himself by this point anyway, but it's still been utterly depressing to have spent all this money on new GM stuff only to realize that I don't really care about ANY of it. Plus, I've read lots of Weisinger Superman and I've read Flex Mentallo already, so I dunno what the point of my reading All-Star Superman will be either. It seems like The Filth was the last thing GM did that was really worth reading, cat/dog/rabbit interactions from We3 aside. As the halcyon days of Animal Man and Doom Patrol get farther away, I'm starting to relate less to his writing as a fan, and ironically enough it's since he's entered the "mature" phase of his career and his personality foibles and Weltanschauung have become most prominent in his writing. I'll be interested to see what his next "serious" project is, but I guess I'm no longer enchanted with him as a writer. Dunno if I've just outgrown that attitude, or if I've outgrown giving a shit about what he does at all, or what. Nevertheless, the day I sell/throw out/give away my fricking GM Doom Patrol collection will still be the last day I ever read a comic book.

it quite often veers into prog rock album cover territory, and everyone talks in post-modern slogans

Was this your first time reading a Morrison series, Joe? (Sorry, I just found this amusing.)

Chris F. (servoret), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 03:14 (eighteen years ago) link

Vimanarama was great!

Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 03:18 (eighteen years ago) link

The Filth was completely over-the-top bizarre anti-narrative stuff. But the chapter on Satan's jizz is all sorts of awesome.

Leeeeeeeee (Leee), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 03:19 (eighteen years ago) link

Vimanarama was bomb fuckin' awesome.

kit brash (kit brash), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 03:30 (eighteen years ago) link

it quite often veers into prog rock album cover territory, and everyone talks in post-modern slogans

Was this your first time reading a Morrison series, Joe? (Sorry, I just found this amusing.)

-- Chris F. (nieman...), September 21st, 2005.

Ha ha, that could actually be an unkind summary of his entire career, couldn't it? I've actually read quite a bit of Morrison, and I do prefer his less self-indulgent, more narratively traditional work (Zenith, Invisibles Vol 1, Seaguy), staid old square that I am.

chap who would dare to thwart the revolution (chap), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 13:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Kit & Chuck OTM, Vimanarama was hot Bollywood sci-fi. I've been meaning to re-read it all at once.

Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 16:37 (eighteen years ago) link

Ah, I just felt like he was phoning it in way too much on Vimanarama, one of those cases where his need for bombass artifice and up-to-date poppiness leads him too directly toward stylistic effect, so the book wound up being about GM thinking he was writing hot Bollywood rom-com sci-fi instead of being a living example of said hot Bollywood rom-com sci-fi, just too slight and genre-conscious and "cool dad" relevant for me to give a shit, playacting at an imagined result instead of delivering the goods. The same problem really tainted my enjoyment of We3 (way too intentionally "cinematic"), and I thought it infected Guardian as well even though there it's a device that fits with the themes of the storyline so maybe I'm more cool with it then I first believed. I dunno, I guess he's still experimenting with form, but it feels like things have gotten too self-reflexive at this point. He's always been up his own arse, so maybe I'm just finding it less fun these days. Still, he managed to have Mister Miracle meet no-mind (or nihilism, or adulthood, depending) in this week's installment, so I'm a little less peeved about the series as it stands. And I'm sure I'll wind up giving ASS a try, all bitching about retread "stealth" projects and pointless nostalgia aside.

Chris F. (servoret), Thursday, 22 September 2005 09:04 (eighteen years ago) link

We3 cinematic?! you are smoking rocks, it's the most comics-formalist thing he's ever done!

kit brash (kit brash), Thursday, 22 September 2005 12:09 (eighteen years ago) link

Am I? I meant "cinematic" in terms of narrative feel, due to aping specific formal effects. Similarly, I suppose I shouldn't have said "up his arse" when I meant "talking out of his arse", as he's only "up his arse" occasionally (like half the time on The Invisibles), but his right to be expressively self-indulgent is one of the major themes of his work (like in the last issue of DP, for instance). Is it just me, or does he really owe a lot to the influence of the KLF, self-promotional bullshit and utopian vision (I don't think it's a coincidence that Mr. Nobody finds himself in the white room) both?

Chris F. (servoret), Friday, 23 September 2005 05:15 (eighteen years ago) link

Er, that should be "NOT due to aping specific formal effects"! I dunno, this "hypercondensed" storytelling just rubs me the wrong way. It feels too forced and aware of itself-- really, it's the comics-formalism that's become the problem!

Chris F. (servoret), Friday, 23 September 2005 05:33 (eighteen years ago) link

Vinamarama seemed the least forced thing he's done lately, just a simple story without Grant Morrison's Themes, but still loved by Grant Morrison's brain. As opposed to Mister Miracle, which really does seem like an Invisibles retread.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 23 September 2005 10:47 (eighteen years ago) link

!? I thought that it was full of Themes, especially in the last issue. Plus the bad guys are sort of proto-Sheeda, aren't they? Hmm. I'm looking at the issues now, and I think I was probably being too harsh with the thing anyway, like I kind of gulped it down without really reading it. Maybe Seven Soldiers will make more aesthetic sense on reread also. Not that I want to do a total Lesterbangsian flip-flop here or anything-- I still am not convinced that it's that great.

Plus, I think it's time for me to do a reread on the last issues of Doom Patrol. The issues after that last Mr. Nobody story arc never sat well with me, but I was flipping through them today and found that I liked them better in the context of thinking about this stuff as of late. The Case/Woch art team maybe wasn't the best, but it still kinda works. Also, I think I'm over resenting GM for the less savory ways that his stance on mental illness in DP #63 can be interpreted ("a world where everything is alive and significant" is not always better than the alternative), especially in light of The Filth.

Chris F. (servoret), Saturday, 24 September 2005 06:24 (eighteen years ago) link

The ones after Mr Nobody are where the comic regains the plot, no? There's that irritating Rebis one-shot about the moon, and then it's all I Luv Cliffhangerz till issue 63, right?

Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Saturday, 24 September 2005 14:41 (eighteen years ago) link

And "Asleep"!

Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Saturday, 24 September 2005 14:56 (eighteen years ago) link

there's the five-issue space snoozefest that starts at a circus

kit brash (kit brash), Saturday, 24 September 2005 22:32 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, but there's not just the Rebis issue (that really was irritating at the time, wasn't it?), but the Jane two-parter, and the series is getting all decompressed storytelling-wise and it's all a bit too prosaic. When the double-sized issue came out, I thought that the cliffhanger for that was FANTASTIC, but the issues after that just felt like things were winding down, and that sense of strangeness, "everything alive and significant", was gone, replaced by straight-up plot and superheroing and Willoughby Kipling being annoying. The last issue redeemed it all, but at the time it was a bit of a disappointment. In retrospect it's very proto-Invisibles, though, isn't it?

Chris F. (servoret), Sunday, 25 September 2005 07:04 (eighteen years ago) link

Re: "snoozefest", well, yeah. I went off the book when it went "mature readers" (I wasn't one at the time), and I didn't stop stupidly self-policing myself in that regard until the end of the Flex Mentallo arc. So when I got back into the book, I read the space story all in one go, which made it work better than it might have otherwise. But yeah, things start going haywire in the book actually when Flex enters the picture, don't they? All of a sudden you get his plotline which takes forever to resolve, and this outer space thing comes in on top of that and doesn't really go anywhere particularly quickly either. The rhythm of stories that had been established gets blown in favor of this more freeform thing, and things never really get back together after that. It becomes a different book, more Grant Morrison-y but not as consistently good as it had been in the "Painting That Ate Paris" period.

Chris F. (servoret), Sunday, 25 September 2005 07:20 (eighteen years ago) link

I really enjoyed the space story and the Flex Mentallo arc, especially the Pentagon/ant farm issues, but that's partly because the Steve Yeowell story was my first issue - I'd been out of comics for a few years and so had missed GM's start on the title. The space war was an issue or so too long but it fits together nicely, and I thought the comic needed a change of pace.

The actual worst part of the Grant DP run was the Happy Harbor sex men story just after the Pentagon stuff (& the TOTALLY CLASSIC Beard Hunter one-off), that was dreadful and really felt like wheels spinning. Then the second brotherhood stuff was OK, the silver age issue was meh, I LIKED the Rebis moon issue though have never convincingly understood it, and after that it was plot plot plot and fite fite fite but those issues do read better now than at the time.

I read a GM thing last night - his "World Shapers" story for Doctor Who Monthly! Not exactly vintage stuff and John Ridgway was having a serious off-day but there were a couple of moments that were immediately Morrison, that thing he does where the reader and character 1 see something big and weird, and then character 2 treats it really matter-of-factly (which of course just increases the sense of wonder for the reader)

Tom (Groke), Sunday, 25 September 2005 09:07 (eighteen years ago) link

that was his best Dr Who story Tom, don't make me cry

kit brash (kit brash), Sunday, 25 September 2005 20:56 (eighteen years ago) link

The actual worst part of the Grant DP run was the Happy Harbor sex men story just after the Pentagon stuff (& the TOTALLY CLASSIC Beard Hunter one-off), that was dreadful and really felt like wheels spinning.

Yeah, agree and agree (the Beard Hunter was the issue that I started back up with!). The Shadowy Mr. Evans was supposed to be Red Jack pt. 2 or something but just came off as a boring manic asshole, Gnostic Christ or not. I guess you're right that the series needed a change of pace anyway, since when GM got back to the Weird Menace thing with those issues, it didn't work anymore (because he was bored with it? There's that Weird Menace red herring/autocritique bit that I think happens right before the Sex Men issues).

Chris F. (servoret), Monday, 26 September 2005 06:09 (eighteen years ago) link

Newsarama has All-Star Superman preview. I don't like Quitely's art. It's like a cross between Michael Turner and MY ASS.

Huk-L (Huk-L), Friday, 30 September 2005 13:47 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh, and here's the link:
http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/allstarsuperman/issue1_preview.htm

Huk-L (Huk-L), Friday, 30 September 2005 13:47 (eighteen years ago) link

Newsarama has All-Star Superman preview. I don't like Quitely's art. It's like a cross between Michael Turner and MY ASS.

1) Your ass must be a beautiful place.
2) IT'S ON SON!

David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 30 September 2005 14:05 (eighteen years ago) link

Ha, that looks awesome. Lex Luthor = Grant Morrison's latest balding-god-figure.

Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Friday, 30 September 2005 14:11 (eighteen years ago) link

I thought of this when I saw Superman, though: http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/rpe0008l.jpg

Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Friday, 30 September 2005 14:12 (eighteen years ago) link

Yes, I don't like how he draws the jaw. "It's a bird, it's a plane, it's nice to see you, to see you nice!"

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 30 September 2005 15:15 (eighteen years ago) link

IT IS NOW MORE ON THAN EVER CHIN HATERS

David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 30 September 2005 15:16 (eighteen years ago) link

For me, it's mostly the lips that displease.

Huk-L (Huk-L), Friday, 30 September 2005 15:18 (eighteen years ago) link

Hmm. I thought that the art accentuated the absurdity of Superman's supersuit. It looks very Mego-action-figure-esque in that two-page splash panel. The S seems less like an inspiring "sigil" in such a context, and more like dumb corporate branding. I like GM's Luciferian conception of Lex Luthor though-- it's a nice carryover from the Luthor of "Rock of Ages".

Chris F. (servoret), Friday, 30 September 2005 19:51 (eighteen years ago) link

A bit alexrossy to my taste; never been a fan of the hulky Superman, Ed McGuinness being one of the few exceptions to that rule. And the origin recap is a bit underwhelming when compared to the one seen in Birthright. Nevertheless, I still have expectations for this, and that double page opening is very likely to end up as a wallpaper...

iodine (iodine), Friday, 30 September 2005 20:34 (eighteen years ago) link

URgh.

I am very mad at Quitely for the super package.

The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Friday, 30 September 2005 20:46 (eighteen years ago) link

You're afraid his super-cock is going to burst out of the page and strike you in the face?

kit brash (kit brash), Friday, 30 September 2005 22:29 (eighteen years ago) link

It looks very Mego-action-figure-esque in that two-page splash panel. The S seems less like an inspiring "sigil" in such a context, and more like dumb corporate branding.

I just looked at this, and you're beyond right: some chimp has copy-and-pasted an on-model S-shield over the redesigned one that Morrison and Quitely designed! It's Kirby's Superman-faces all over again.

kit brash (kit brash), Friday, 30 September 2005 22:44 (eighteen years ago) link

this looks fantastic! i'm really excited!

dave k, Saturday, 1 October 2005 13:59 (eighteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...
I just finished The Invisibles, but I didn't get volume 3. Then I realized, because I was reading it in cbr, that it was numbered backwards. Huh.

Leeeeeeeeee (Leee), Sunday, 23 October 2005 06:21 (eighteen years ago) link

five months pass...
So, remember the bit I mentioned somewhere here about Grant's speech on the Disinformation DVD, where he talks about an experience he had getting abducted by aliens in the Southern Hemisphere, because he had set it up so that he went there to be abducted by aliens? I've just had an experience like that tonight-- it ended with me actually rediscovering my magic "sh m n" word (which only has meaning to me, of course), physically seeing fucking Barbelith in Milwaukee (Jordan and Maddie, it's on the end of the break water by the marina if you ever want to take a look-- go at night so you can see the lighthouses with their red and green blinking lights), and then catching a midnight showing of The Matrix, which I could finally see really was the exact same thing as The Invisibles, in movie form! Kids, don't try this at home-- Moore, Gaiman, and Sim (yes, Sim-- why else do you think Moore was buddies with him?) all have good mojo, but Grant was the one who hooked me in at the right age with his Doom Patrol and he's the one who gets the credit from me for saving my life at all the times when I've needed it the most. Magic sometimes works-- you just have to (not) know what you're doing with it! What a dork I am to get my religion from comic books, of all things-- but who cares! Search, search, search-- search all of it!

(And then, destroy, destroy, destroy...)

Chris Freiberg (Chris F.), Saturday, 15 April 2006 08:43 (eighteen years ago) link

Not to ground this thread in more earthly matters, but what's the general consensus on Rock of Ages? Amazon dopes seems to hate it!

c(''c) (Leee), Saturday, 15 April 2006 17:14 (eighteen years ago) link

I like it, on the whole. The climax is pretty muddled, but the Darkseid section makes up for that (The Atom riding lightwaves into his brain! Brilliant).

chap who would dare to be a stone cold thug (chap), Saturday, 15 April 2006 18:10 (eighteen years ago) link

Rock of Ages is great!

I'm glad you were able to find some good drugs in Mke, Chris. :>

Jordan (Jordan), Saturday, 15 April 2006 18:41 (eighteen years ago) link

rock of ages is ok but i can't deal with the art. leee i'm willing to trade you for it if you have anything i like!!

s1ocki (slutsky), Saturday, 15 April 2006 19:30 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't actually have ROA! I read a library copy, actually.

c(''c) (Leee), Saturday, 15 April 2006 19:44 (eighteen years ago) link

Best mainstream comic ever! (Or at least most thrillpowered...)

Amazon dopes hate it b/c it violates narrative conventions: the story interrupts itself halfway through and goes in a completely different direction and it's the most Morrisony JLA trade, in terms of the density, Invisibles references (Darkseid invades in 2012, the same year of the end of earth in Invisibles and Terrence McKenna, etc.) and lyrical weirdness (GL is on the grail quest and, standing in a forest of dead superheroes made out of stone, and he tells the new Hourman that he dreamt he was in a field where all his desires have come true, but then notices that everything is green).

kenchen, Saturday, 15 April 2006 20:08 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm glad you were able to find some good drugs in Mke, Chris. :>

Yah, this city is great-- I'm so glad that it's my home town! (I'm a Cancer, BTW-- and yes, reading your horoscope in the weekly paper for shits and giggles sometimes is a part of dopey Morrisonmania.) Pt. 2 of My Greatest Adventure today has been even more exciting so far-- I just got back from hiking through the labyrinth at Grant Park down on the South Side. It happens to be the case that one of the Seven Bridges there is down for repairs, so I decided to hack my own way out on the hike back...

Chris Freiberg (Chris F.), Saturday, 15 April 2006 21:18 (eighteen years ago) link

no lee i got it if you want to trade FOR it.

personally i think the art is awful and the story is terribly paced (no tension, all release) but there's some neat stuff in it for sure.

s1ocki (slutsky), Saturday, 15 April 2006 21:32 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm virtually blind, so I beg your pardon s1ocki! I'll hit up your email.

c(''c) (Leee), Saturday, 15 April 2006 21:52 (eighteen years ago) link

It's probably my favourite of the JLA storylines, the balance of re-using old ideas and great new ones and campy enjoyment (one of the covers has Batman yelling "Superman, stop! Luthor must escape or the Earth is doomed!") is perfect. It's certainly a excellent one to give people to see whether they'd like the whole series. The only other one that comes close (though they're all great) is World War III, because he does such fantastic endings.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Saturday, 15 April 2006 23:43 (eighteen years ago) link

I remember someone here once complaining that some comic just felt like kids playing with action figures - "and then they FITE and he's dead but NOT REALLY HA HA and then they ride DRAGONS!" and such - and that made me instantly think of "Rock Of Ages". It's good, but I'd be wary of over-hyping it, especially with the *wrong* kind of hype (i.e. emphasizing the Grant Morrison as Comic's Greatest Living Storyteller idea and minimizing the camp aspect.)

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Sunday, 16 April 2006 10:01 (eighteen years ago) link

I started my rereading of DP last night-- made it halfway through the first storyline before it was time to go to bed. I was thinking of doing an "exegesis" of DP as a writing project last summer and now I'm rather glad I didn't, as it would have been a little bit premature! Reading "Crawling From the Wreckage" with the Scissormen as the baddies right after seeing The Matrix with the Agents as same makes me think that The Invisibles isn't the only GM comic that got borrowed from in its making. It's really amazing when you think about it-- not only do the DP have to defend reality from incursions by the notional world, but they have to defend real life from mechanization, all while sorting through their own issues and discovering the real possibilities and potentials of human life: Rebis, with hir unification of dualities through an application of spirit, discovering eternal life and a world of infinite possibilities for discovery and amusement as a result; Jane, with her 64 real possibilities of human action/character unified behind one purpose, discovering that "what normal people have" isn't necessarily so great; and Cliff, overcoming the mind/body divide by becoming one integrated mechanism, discovering that what it means to be really human has everything to do with humane action and nothing to do with clinging to preconceptions and idealizations.

Chris Freiberg (Chris F.), Sunday, 16 April 2006 16:28 (eighteen years ago) link

the *wrong* kind of hype (i.e. emphasizing the Grant Morrison as Comic's Greatest Living Storyteller idea and minimizing the camp aspect

Yeah, the camp aspect is part of the fun of Grant Morrison, storyteller. I'm reminded of something Morrissey said in interview on the New York Doll DVD-- everybody has one artist that hit them at the right time growing up and who can never disappoint them. GM is certainly it for me, but that doesn't mean that I'd make his comics mandatory reading for everybody on the planet, or even everybody on ILC (though I don't know if there's anyone here who doesn't read his stuff at this point).

Chris Freiberg (Chris F.), Sunday, 16 April 2006 16:41 (eighteen years ago) link


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