― Confounded (Confounded), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 15:59 (eighteen years ago) link
― Paranoid Spice (kate), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:07 (eighteen years ago) link
And yet I object to using the term "indie pop" to describe what is essentially a quite narrow category of music that might more aptly be called "twee pop." As much as the terms "indie pop" and "indie rock" often overlap, I still have a sense of what "indie pop" means when it's used: in a contemporary context, it's bands like Belle & Sebastian, Stars, Of Montreal, etc. It's not Interpol, Xiu Xiu, or the Hold Steady.
― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:25 (eighteen years ago) link
What we actually mean when we use these terms ... that's something I could have written several other pages on. Hopefully some of my thinking about that made it through onto the page: the way that the indiepop model was just what "indie" meant for much of the 80s; the way bands like the Swirlies or Versus or Unrest could kind of float between those notions in the 90s; the way ideas from indie's pop side, punk-rock side, and ambitious-professional side have split off from one another at various points and then basically rejoined to create the mainstream-indie we still have today.
I don't know whether it's a good or a bad thing for people to make big distinctions about this stuff. I like the fact that loads of people can enjoy something like the All-Girl Summer Fun Band without thinking of it as a genre exercise or part of a specific history. But it also seems like the pop part of indie is getting blurred out of people's official histories and grand narratives, and in the process I think a lot of context is getting lost, context that's useful for getting at a lot of bands and a lot of ideas. More importantly, I really do think there are certain listening mindsets, certain tricks and ways of understanding things, that make indiepop so lovable to its fans, and that a lot of the scene can be accessed as a genre -- i.e., turning on to a way of thinking/hearing that makes big chunks of the stuff make sense.
Pete: sweet, Wolfie and Rocketship albums are two of my favorite recommendations on there. And Wolfie relates strongly to that last sentence: I, and some other people I know, hear total wonderfulness in this band; people who don't go for it seem to just hear a regular, lousy band. This is unusual: they don't think it's super-godawful, or fakey, or too-weird (as people often will with bands you think sound "special"), but rather just cruddy, plain, and irritating, unremarkable. There's some kind of "trick" there, surely, some way-of-hearing thing? (And with that first Wolfie the best I can figure is that people think they're trying to be cute, whereas actually they're kinda trying to be AC/DC -- they're all adorable on their own!)
The Feelings were pretty alright: I was just listening to Dearling Darling the other day!
― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:21 (eighteen years ago) link
1. Politics: the UK in the 80s was a political place and indie was particularly so. It was an uncomfortable politics and not an especially active one, but everyone I knew felt they were politically engaged, and if there were right-wingers they certainly kept quiet about it. Certainly some thought of Rock and Thatcher as linked, things to be opposed. 86-87 was also a time of a sense of hopelessness for the left, the miners long defeated and Thatcher's apparently unstoppable charge to the 87 election landslide. The loser pose makes a certain amount of sense in that context. (I think Reynolds has something interesting to say about this stuff in "Against Health And Efficiency" but it's been a long time).
For some of us who took some time away from indie in the 90s, coming back to find that sound (and to some extent, the look) had become the noise of choice for a constituency of intelligent, wealthy American right wing College types was a real shock.
2. Punk Rock. The UK indie scene in the mid-1980s was obsessed with punk. Many people saw themselves as the true standard-bearers of the spirit of Punk, claiming a lineage which went Vic-Dan-Edwyn-and-so-on. You heard tales of Primal Scream in '85 going round after their jangliest shows asking People Who Knew "was that Punk Rock"? It was crucially important and we all made sure we hated hippies, even though we barely saw hippies ever. We'd have to make up hippies to hate (in one of the "Communication Blur"s, The Legend! and Alan McGee famously laid into the El records lot as 'short haired hippies').
Hm I could say more about this but I should leave it for now.
― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 27 October 2005 09:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 27 October 2005 09:06 (eighteen years ago) link
The "right wing" is a little out of place there; indie is the American noise of choice for a group that trends left, in a kind of rote post-collegiate way. That's true of the Friendster set, anyway; as you move younger into new-convert fans of big mainstreamed indie bands (Strokes, Modest Mouse, Franz Ferdinand, Death Cab) I think you might find something more politically neutral.
― ponypoop (ponypoop), Thursday, 27 October 2005 14:35 (eighteen years ago) link
The true patron saints were the punk lineage that Tim mentioned, which also stretched way back before Vic, Dan and Edwyn to Jonathan, Lou, Iggy and Rory. The fact that he's moaning about not getting on TOTP is telling, since the very pervasive punk ethic of time meant that most indie bands couldn't have cared less about TOTP or daytime radio.
― everything, Thursday, 27 October 2005 18:19 (eighteen years ago) link
Of course we could have all been escapists escaping from different things... living in Texas, punk politics was an escape for me at the time.
Indie rock is maybe assumed to be left-wing probably because it's strongly associated with being in college? But I knew plenty of folks growing up who loved punk and indie rock because of how it sounded and just totally disregarded (or made fun of) its politics.
― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Thursday, 27 October 2005 19:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― marianna (mariannapm), Friday, 4 November 2005 14:19 (eighteen years ago) link
[reads last post and sobs]
― Evan, Friday, 22 May 2020 21:56 (three years ago) link
lol
― devvvine, Friday, 22 May 2020 21:57 (three years ago) link
Rereading the Twee As Fuck piece from 2005 because I've been geeking on this stuff again (+ the American take on this that sometimes has a little Sonic Youth or Dino Jr mixed in the recipe. Like Versus). Wondering if anyone else that's still here loves it too?
― Evan, Saturday, 23 May 2020 18:17 (three years ago) link
I still love Versus - and their many side projects are all great, too.
The "Scared To Get Happy" and C86-C89 comps are full of gems and are a ton of fun in general.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Saturday, 23 May 2020 19:29 (three years ago) link
Yes! Love that Saturnine tape in particular!
I think my favorite early/legendary comp for this kind of music is the Corrupt Postman tape if you're familiar.
― Evan, Saturday, 23 May 2020 20:20 (three years ago) link
Never heard of that tape, downloading it now, thanks for the tip!
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Saturday, 23 May 2020 20:27 (three years ago) link
You're welcome! Enjoy!
― Evan, Saturday, 23 May 2020 20:29 (three years ago) link
yeah, the Stars are Insane remains a great album
― avellano medio inglés (f. hazel), Saturday, 23 May 2020 20:46 (three years ago) link
It is! But imo I can't say they have a stand out album... all of their 90s material is top notch.
― Evan, Sunday, 24 May 2020 13:22 (three years ago) link
Hey Evan, have you checked this out?
https://acolourfulstorm.com/track/i-wont-have-to-think-about-you
Great indiepop from Australia!
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Friday, 5 June 2020 18:55 (three years ago) link
i posted about that comp on another thread just the other day! v into it
― just sayin, Sunday, 7 June 2020 07:48 (three years ago) link
Oh wow I totally missed this!
Yes I LOVE that comp because Bart Cummings is a legend and I've recently been absolutely obsessed with all of his bands. I also love the Cannanes! They played in NYC a few years ago and it was a huge treat.
― Evan, Monday, 8 June 2020 19:12 (three years ago) link
What a label too! They actually reissued Unisex by Blueboy, how exciting!
Oh hey I hope you liked the Corrupt Postman tape, too.
― Evan, Monday, 8 June 2020 19:17 (three years ago) link
first two Blueboy albums + attendant singles are all timeless
― avellano medio inglés (f. hazel), Monday, 8 June 2020 21:13 (three years ago) link
Yeah I recently realized how much I love the songs Dirty Mags, Air France, and Sea Horses (latter which I fell back in love with because of the exciting live version on the Bikini 7" if you've heard that).
― Evan, Monday, 8 June 2020 22:32 (three years ago) link
And man as a early 90s shoegaze fan, Dirty Mags is just such an incredible song from a band that doesn't typically go there.
― Evan, Monday, 8 June 2020 22:36 (three years ago) link
yeah I remember how surprising that track was when it was released... good though. and I do have that Bikini 7"! printed in acid green ink on white cardstock
― avellano medio inglés (f. hazel), Monday, 8 June 2020 22:59 (three years ago) link
Then you know! Something about the energy in that version. Wish I could have seem them live so I could jump up and down during the chorus.
― Evan, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 04:32 (three years ago) link
Update: geek levels are off the charts
Where are the other classic-indie-pop geeks of ILM?
― Evan, Friday, 3 March 2023 15:38 (one year ago) link
Classic indie-pop as in stuff compiled on the "Scared To Get Happy" box? Count me in!
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Friday, 3 March 2023 15:41 (one year ago) link
Yes, and American style stuff as well!
Since you mentioned that specifically, you'll really love this:
https://wilfullyobscure.blogspot.com/2013/06/va-scared-to-get-happy-addendum-aka.html
― Evan, Friday, 3 March 2023 15:45 (one year ago) link
Oh yes, there were other addendum lists that came out at the time, I compiled them all.
Whats your top 10 indie pop LPs?
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Friday, 3 March 2023 17:31 (one year ago) link
There were? I thought this was just a singular fan exercise by that blog.
Dang, I'll need a minute to over-think that answer. There's so much overlap with shoegaze, american shoegaze, lo-fi, Dino Jr rock, slacker, general ameri-indie stylings...
Give me some guard rails maybe!
― Evan, Friday, 3 March 2023 19:43 (one year ago) link
I’m not listening to much of this kind of stuff at the moment but was surprised and pleased to see a song by the band I was in 35+ years ago crop up in that addendum list. Thanks for posting it, Evan.
― Tim, Friday, 3 March 2023 22:11 (one year ago) link
Of course! That is a fun surprise. And because you weren't forthcoming about it, I won't ask :)
― Evan, Friday, 3 March 2023 22:17 (one year ago) link
Haha sorry for being obtuse, you can hear me singing on “Goldmining” by The Visitors.
― Tim, Friday, 3 March 2023 22:22 (one year ago) link
Wow, top spot!
― Evan, Friday, 3 March 2023 22:33 (one year ago) link
Second Story - The Hang UpsSunlight In A Jar - The LucksmithsTrampoline - Greenberry WoodsPassion Play - Papas FritasTallulah - Allo DarlinMercury Girl - Cleaners From VenusLunar Sea - Camera ObscuraSprocket Dick - Tripmaster MonkeyBlack Cab - Jens LekmanThe Wild Ones - Push Kings
― enochroot, Saturday, 4 March 2023 01:23 (one year ago) link
I still have the Visitors flexidisc!
― everything, Saturday, 4 March 2023 02:12 (one year ago) link
!! A really tiny number of people seem to like it quite a lot.
― Tim, Saturday, 4 March 2023 11:24 (one year ago) link
Not sure if I quite grasp the thread revival, but FWIW I listen to late 1980s UK indie a great deal. In recent weeks I was playing the C87 CDs 2 and 3 over and over and over again.
I also enjoy Tim's old records, but he knows that already.
― the pinefox, Saturday, 4 March 2023 11:49 (one year ago) link
I found 3 great sources for addendum's to "Scared To Get Happy":
From Wilfully Obscure (http://wilfullyobscure.blogspot.com/2013/06/va-scared-to-get-happy-addendum-aka.html):01. Visitors - Goldmining02. Moss Poles - Go Down03. Remember Fun - Train Journeys04. Field Mice - I Thought Wrong (Run away) (demo)05. The Church Grims - Plaster Saint06. Candy Skins - She Blew Me Away07. Outskirts - Blue Line08. Various Artists (the band) - Original Mixed Up Kid09. North of Cornwallis - Billy Liar10. Hellfire Sermons - Rachel Clean11. Potting Sheds - Happy Again12. The Perfect Disaster - Call it a Day13. Hey Paulette - I Really Do Love Penelope14. Jane From Occupied Europe - Ocean Run Dry15. James Dean Driving Experience - Drop Dead Darling16. The Rose Of Avalanche - Always There17. Power of Dreams - The Jokes On Me (demo)18. Palisades - Knight in Gale19. This Scarlet Train - Picture Frame20. St. Christopher - Even The Sky Seems Blue21. Stray Trolleys - Secret Dreams Of A Kitchen Porter22. Sundays - Can't Be Sure (4-track demo)
From Facebook suggestions:Playthings - JuiceThe Times - My Andy Warhol PosterThe Cleaners From Venus - Julie ProfumoAtom Spies - Aliens In Your WardrobeThe Perfect Disaster - TV Girl On FireThe Passmore Sisters - Every Child In HeavenBarbel - InfernoJim Jiminee - I Wanna Work OR +Snap Me UpSt. James Infirmary - Terry MarriageheadEssential Bop - Eloquent Sounds OR +CroakedElectric Guitars - WorkThe Lilac Time - Return To YesterdaySnakes Of Shake - Southern CrossMemphis - You Supply The RosesDislocation Dance - You’ll Never, Never KnowThe Anyways - ConfessionThe Friendly Fires - ArkansasFat Tulips - Where’s Clare Grogan Now?Parachute Men - Leeds StationFizzbombs - SurfaroundMousefolk - Devil in the Deep Blue SeaBaby Lemonade - Real WorldMayfields - World of Your OwnMoss Poles - One SummerThe Bridewell Taxis - Just Good FriendsCandy Darlings - That’s Where Caroline LivesThe Big Paintings - My Minitrend FriendGifted Children - My Favourite FilmsHoneycrash - Kill Someone You Like (aka I Don't Blame You)Fontaines - I Want EverythingCity Giants - Little Next To NothingJazzateers - Wasted OR +Natural Progression (Part 1)
From https://pedaladasabuenritmo.wordpress.com/2013/07/04/scared-to-get-happy-addendum-i/Young Marble Giants - CakewalkingVic Godard - Stop That GirlDirect Hits -Modesty BlaiseEyeless In Gaza - New RisenRinging - CapriceMemphis - You Supply The RosesCocteau Twins - Aikea GuineaBeloved - A Hundred WordsEnormous Room - 100 Different WordsStars Of Heaven - Talk About It NowBridge - Shame Is A GirlWallflowers - Thank YouCleaners From Venus - Living With Victoria GreyJames Dean Driving Experience - World Weary & Wise (new version)Emily - Mad DogsReserve - A Perfect LieThe Man From Delmonte - (Will Nobody Save) LouiseThe Parachute Men - Sometimes In VainMarden Hill - Oh ConstanceRemember Fun - Cold InsidePo! - Appleseed AlleyThe Nivens - YesterdaySt. Christopher - All OF A TrembleThe Ogdens - Rachel Put Your Arms About MeDevine & Statton - Under The WeatherThe Love Parade - Under The WeatherTreebound Story - Swimming In The Heart Of JaneSt. James Infirmary - Terry Marriagehead
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Saturday, 4 March 2023 19:10 (one year ago) link
Nice! Looks like wilfullyobscure inspired the third one (at least)
Not sure if I quite grasp the thread revival
Sorry, to clarify I was providing a personal status update given my previous revive here.
― Evan, Sunday, 5 March 2023 16:32 (one year ago) link
Well, to answer your previous revive -- yes, I am still very strongly into this music and listen to it frequently.
― the pinefox, Sunday, 5 March 2023 16:46 (one year ago) link
Awesome.
Boy I got so overwhelmed by the innocent top 10 indie pop question, I've been putting it off...
Going to pivot and mention some recent favorite 45s:
Majestic 12 - Lost & FoundMy Favorite - The Informers & UsTizzy - New JerseyMoped - Naked, Sharp & PlasticSnog 6 - Start All Over Again (CD EP)Sammy - Neptune Ave. (Ortho Hi Rise)The Someloves - Know You NowLenola - Oh Yes, Jeep Is Good! (more in the indie-noise-shoegaze camp)Number One Cup - Malcolm's X-Ray Picnic Bubby Girl - Coyote Spindle Solar Coaster - Zero Sum / KarmageddonHopper - WastedLKWRM - Thirty Years Of Concentrated Thought (CD EP)The Pennikurvers - The Pennikurvers Clag - Manufacturing ResentMadison Electric - Heavy Petal The Cherry Smash - West Coast Rip-Off New Sweet Breath - Silka Charlotte Hatherley - SummerBomb Pops – Girl Daredevil + Riverside
― Evan, Monday, 6 March 2023 16:03 (one year ago) link
Long shot - does anyone have digital rips of anything the label Bliss Aquamarine released?
― Evan, Monday, 6 March 2023 16:25 (one year ago) link
It's always seemed to me that there was an "indiepop revival" around say 2008, and indeed that much of the current / subsequent idea of "indiepop" was actually crystallised then, retrospectively streamlining much of what had happened originally.
The prevalence of "popfests" for several years (plus Indietracks) around that period would support this view.
I also have the sense that this then flowed into some kind of dreampop that was possibly 80s-revivalist viz. Wild Nothing (who when I saw them live were not very different from a guitar-based indie band - but this is as long ago as 2010).
Whether there has been yet another wave of indiepop revivalism I don't know - rather, I suspect that C21 culture has "kept everything in play", permanently available.
― the pinefox, Monday, 6 March 2023 18:31 (one year ago) link
Hey check out my stellar thread-relevant haul yesterday at the shop I used to manage (I am in the US):
Hood - I've Forgotten How To LiveJuno - Magnified And Reduced By Inches / Pablo Y ZeldaFertile Virgin - Lucky Day14 Iced Bears - World I LoveTompot Blenny - Thinking Of Ways Of Keeping You WarmTrembling Blue Stars - The RainbowSt. Christopher - All Of A TrembleThe Sweetest Ache - I Remember CarolineStrawberry Story - Small & Slightly Rounded EPVarious - Joe FridayThe Some Loves - It's My TimeThe Melons - Strictly Melonhead EPThe Melons - Fast LaneEye Pilgrims / Choo Choo Train - Wall Of Sand / Many Happy Returns
Not bad for ~$55 total, right?
― Evan, Wednesday, 15 March 2023 15:29 (one year ago) link
Anyway... anyone have any good leads for some obscure "classic" indie cassette compilation uploads? I've been hunting the web and it's tougher than I'd thought! Not to dismiss the great stuff I AM finding but just as often I'll learn of compilations that don't seem to exist digitally on soulseek or blogs or archive.org etc. yet. Or, I'll remain puzzled at the absence of any blogs dedicated to that "scene" of DIY and/or small label cassettes (with downloads). It would seem like one of those things a fan like myself with access would have done by now.
― Evan, Friday, 17 March 2023 16:01 (one year ago) link
Have a gander at the things on here that aren't the NME tapes (actually the NME tapes are largely excellent but they are mostly outside the rubric of this thread): https://pressplayandrecord.wordpress.com/
I found this by searching for two old tapes whose names stuck in my head: Abigail's Birthday Party and Plinky Plonky There's a Donkey. For shame.
― Tim, Friday, 17 March 2023 17:18 (one year ago) link