Orbital - Snivilisation

used to be my alarm call theme at college

Not Chime?

This has such a spectacular opening minute.

"Keine Trink Wasser" has to be the highlight for me. "Attached" sounds a bit Orbital by numbers but KTW is just something else... even now, hearing makes me feel just a little like I've discovered a brand new colour.

Just pulled out the EP of the "Are We Here" mixes (might have been released in a different form in the UK, I'm not sure). Totally forgot how good this was!

Used this album as an excuse to ponder the current Britpop love-in narrative of 1994 that the media are trotting out, and ruminate on who writes shared cultural histories - http://exeterrecordclub.com/2014/04/09/orbital-snivilisation-round-11-nicks-choice/

That was a good read. I didn't discover Orbital until 2002 or so but Snivilisation was definitely the album of theirs that made me feel like they had so much more going on than nearly any other UK 90's act (save maybe Underworld?)

I don't think that dance music in 1994 (or album-centric dance in general) is really an anniversary worth celebrating and the 20th anniversary of acid house passed with a fair bit of commentary. Nothing compared to this ridiculous Britpop thing though. '20 years since Leftism' is not really a banner anyone's going to rally under, even/especially people who like dance music.

The death of Frankie Knuckles getting a slot on ITV evening news felt like a big deal though, in terms of how cultural history gets written.

Never really liked Snivilisation that much, monumental twin peaks of Forever/Are We Here notwithstanding.

Or to put it another way, it feels like you're bemoaning that 90s dance isn't commemorated like 90s rock on the terms already set out and established by rock music, with exclusive reference to album artists. All of which feels to me like it would be totally the wrong way to commemorate it in any case.

^^^^^^^

Snivilisation, in that sense, as i remember it, made a splash precisely because rock(ist) crits suddenly smothered it with "ooh look dance music can be like rock music hooray"

and specifically like prog rock insofar as it was a concept album. The first dance concept album perhaps?

sorry for rockist concerns with "the album" btw

Yeah both that and UW's dubnobasswithmyheadman felt like they went a bit into progrock space. I can't think of albums prior to those where the songs had such dynamic structures that would build the way these ones did. Though Orbital 2 played around a bit in this space.

I never listened to this record because of the title.

It's also worth pointing out that the Britpop anniversary is being flogged because a) Britpop itself was a media event as much as a musical one, in a way that jungle or acid house (bar the Sun campaign) weren't, and b) the media is now run by people who were into Britpop in their youth and in some cases actively involved in it, and are milking their last moments of feeling relevant.

Interesting that you mention hip-hop at all by the way, because there really isn't any music that references, reinforces and sometimes regurgitates its own canon as much as hip-hop. It doesn't need British taste makers to do it as well.

Wait hold up Matt can I just stop you on your failure to acknowledge the awesomeness of "Sad But True".

Kein Trink Wasser is amazing as well

I heard the remix (Sad But New) first, and so when I eventually got round to Sniv it felt really clunky and heavy-handed in comparison.

But surely the rise of album oriented dance in 94 shouldn't be ignored as a thing in its own right? Whether it irks you as a dance fan or not, the acceptance of dance music by the mainstream/alternative press and fanship played a significant part in dance music's legacy? There's no denying '94 as a banner year for these kinds of albums - Dummy, Dubnobasswithmyheadman, SAW II, Jilted Generation, Snivilisation - and the thing that's missing from a lot of the Britpop rosie-specticles being written now is exactly how much dance music played a factor in this era. Select, which was always considered THE Britpop magazine had excellent dance music coverage and I personally see this co-mingling as a really important part in how dance music came to be perceived and went on to develop.

i don't hear much legacy from album-oriented dance in any of the worthwhile dance genres in 2014 tbh

and i like plenty of album/bedroom/headphone dance music but i don't think it has particularly grown or spread out tentacles of influence in the last 20 years

Add Protection to the list.

It was a pivotal year for dance: I think for outsiders, prior to '94 dance music was largely perceived as being music for children, drug addicts and criminals; post '94, post CJB, it had been assimilated into wider culture as 'proper music' which could be marketed to adults and people who had enough money to spend on albums and club nights. For better or worse '94 was the year dance music became 'safe' to touch. I think before this time, music execs and mainstream journos had rather strange ideas of what to do with it. One of the first albums I bought was Now Dance '91 and I'd say only about half of it would be considered dance music these days.

I think what I'm trying to say is that the '94 watershed had wider commercial implications for dance music, a knock on effect that atomised it into overground, underground and middlebrow pathways which would go on to influence each other over the coming years and decades.

nah

all that happened then was that rockist writers started hating it less

matt dc otm

the britpop 1994 commemoration is so much desperate bullshit in the first place

not sure "desperation" comes into it really, it'll be a ratings-winner for 6music et al (however conservative and boring we might find it)

Being strictly objective here, 1994 changed British rock (wrt underground/mainstream relationship and commercial expectations) as fundamentally as Nevermind did US rock. Even if you hate all the records, not to mark the anniversary would be bizarre.

And dog latin's right about 94 being a watershed for dance albums and live shows: Prodigy, Underworld, Chems, Orbital at Glastonbury, plus the Portishead/Protection/Tricky/MoWax axis. Duke Dumont and Gorgon City might not be legacies of that but Disclosure certainly are.

I'm fascinated by the violence of the reactions to the Britpop anniversary, here and on Facebook. I can't think of another music anniversary that's sparked such scorn.

problem for me it's Britpop EVERY DAY on 6music anyway, going on about it even more is all a bit ludicrous. But I find it hard to get angry about, even when they play Marion and 60ft Dolls. I should probably listen to another station!

"Britpop day"

Not listening to 6Music this week has been a good move. For me the mid-90s was a bit of Britpop (Blur, Pulp, Elastica), a few US bands (Pavement, NIN, Smashing Pumpkins) and a lot of dance music and hip hop so I keep forgetting about the hordes of Britpop seat-fillers.

My point isn't that we should have some kind of celebration of album-oriented dance music (uergh) in the same way as the Britpop celebrations that are happening right now, as if they're separate entities; rather that, for me, if you're going to celebrate Britpop properly you need to include all the dance music, 'trip hop' (for want of a better name), etc etc that was happening at the same time and seemed to be equally as important to the state of the nation and the nation's pop music at the time. But of course Britpop isn't just 'British pop' anymore; it's a micro-specific scene, and I think that's a (negative) tightening of understanding that's happened over two decades rather than how the term was used (when it was used) 20 years ago. I may be misremembering, but Chemical Brothers, for example, felt like part of whatever Britpop was way more than a lot of the guitar bands that are getting airtime now. But this is a perspective from way outside London.

It's also worth pointing out that the Britpop anniversary is being flogged because a) Britpop itself was a media event as much as a musical one, in a way that jungle or acid house (bar the Sun campaign) weren't, and b) the media is now run by people who were into Britpop in their youth and in some cases actively involved in it, and are milking their last moments of feeling relevant.

This is exactly what I'm addressing in the last paragraph

tbh while i think of chemical bros and orbital as a bit before my time, dance awakening wise, as a casual fan i'm pretty glad they're NOT lumped in with britpop's utter grimness any more. be thankful they're not being "celebrated" alongside sleeper and mesnwear and cast

Not listening to 6Music this week has beenever is a good move.

6Music fringe shows are often very good, even you might like some of them Lex, e.g. weekly resident mixes from Goldie, Weatherall, Kevin Saunderson.

Can someone explain why it's this week that people are marking out to be Britpop revival week exactly?

I'm also interested in the backlash. I was there at the time, part of the target audience of 14y/o white middle class suburban kids and a huge fan of Blur, of Oasis, of Pulp and Supergrass and the Bluetones and all those others. But those aren't the bands that made music exciting, not in themselves, because my friends and I were also listening to the grunge bands of previous years, to trip hop, to drum'n'bass and hip hop and things like Black Grape (I guess).
We were aware that Britpop was a thing but no one, not even the most narrow-minded kids, listened to it exclusively. And also in 1994, Britpop had yet to reveal its most unsavoury side. This was before Oasis vs Blur and the caustic media attention slathered on those two acts, so for a short while it didn't seem to be seen as such a cynical scene as it's made out to be.
All the same by '95, there was definitely a sense of 'LOL Britpop' in the air, similar in many ways to how grunge was seen for a very long time as a genre of po-faced moaners. Surprised to find that grunge has fared better in its reputation than Britpop. But those who say that Britpop never went away are entirely correct.

My point isn't that we should have some kind of celebration of album-oriented dance music (uergh) in the same way as the Britpop celebrations that are happening right now, as if they're separate entities; rather that, for me, if you're going to celebrate Britpop properly you need to include all the dance music, 'trip hop' (for want of a better name), etc etc that was happening at the same time and seemed to be equally as important to the state of the nation and the nation's pop music at the time. But of course Britpop isn't just 'British pop' anymore; it's a micro-specific scene, and I think that's a (negative) tightening of understanding that's happened over two decades rather than how the term was used (when it was used) 20 years ago. I may be misremembering, but Chemical Brothers, for example, felt like part of whatever Britpop was way more than a lot of the guitar bands that are getting airtime now. But this is a perspective from way outside London.

OTM. Britpop had a much wider scope and would encompass pretty much anything on this comp for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Best..._Album_in_the_World...Ever!

or at least the first volume of that comp.

Snivilisation has aged better than any Orbital album by far.

I played both Snivilisation and In Sides yesterday and In Sides was much better to my ears.

In Sides is a much better record.

xp Grunge is an interesting comparison. The anniversaries of Nevermind, In Utero and Kurt's death seem untainted by, say, Stone Temple Pilots, whereas Britpop - a nebulous concept with a lot of different strands and, as Nick says, overlap with other (better) mid-90s scenes - all gets put in the bin with Noel's union flag guitar.

Nirvana dominated grunge in a way that no individual band did with Britpop though. The significant thing about Nirvana was that they were something the media didn't quite understand and couldn't control, rather than something they were gleeful participants in.

Also come on, Nirvana >>>>>> any Britpop band.

so tempted to start a list thread

it is possible to celebrate album-oriented electronic music without the "finally, INTELLIGENT dance music" nonsense. i mean it makes sense that writers would mostly focus on dance music, that's where most of the action is and it's a bigger rupture from your parents' record collection than AOE, which did have its reactionary component.

still, unique stuff happened there and i would love to read about it, now that we've moved past the "this is it, brilliant white men will finally realize the potential of electronic music" phase.

Yeah I mean no one has this sort of conversation around, say, Kassem Mosse or Terrence Parker or Moodymann or anyone else who's put a great dance album out this year, I think it's more railing against the perception of the album as only worthwhile format.

I actually think around the time of Britpop was at its peak the British music press was at its best. They used to have a dance section and actually bother to write about rap music. Looking back now it's pretty cool that the NME had Tricky as their album of the year ahead of Blur/Oasis/Pulp. Those magazines actually used to try and cover different scenes and give their audience a mix of genres that probably suited their tastes. I'm not sure exactly when but at some point the NME just decided that it's audience could only handle one kind of music (It got even worse by the time they made up the New Rock Revolution)

If you look at the Melody Maker end of year lists from around this time they include a lot of dance music and some other really interesting records, none of which will be celebrated on 6Music's Britpop week, I'm sure.

http://www.rocklistmusic.co.uk/mmlists_p2.htm#1990

Also Insides is by far my favourite Orbital album.

The thing is, the Britpop thing just took over and crushed all that - as the big moment in the gentrification of indie it (and Matthew Bannister at Radio One) just killed the friction between the alternative press and the mainstream, it became a way of pitching bands straight at prime time and they lost interest in everything else, especially by the Conor McNicholas era. I'm with Jeremy Deller on this one.

Nirvana dominated grunge

When I think of grunge, I don't really think of Nirvana. Not that they weren't a 'grunge' band, indeed they WERE excellent and they were very much integral to it. But when I think of grunge now, I think of Pearl Jam, Alice In Chains and however many other plaid-shirted dudes with longhair you care to mention. Grunge's reputation immediately after Kurt's death was a bit of a mockery. 'Complaint Rock' 'Just dudes whining' 'Someone moping in a corner and then screaming like he's been hit over the head with a frying pan' etc...

in a way that no individual band did with Britpop though.

I think when people think of Britpop they think of two-three very specific pieces of iconography - Noel's Union Flag guitar being one of them. And as mentioned upthread, that whole Cool Britannia best-buds-with-Blair thing was the beginning of the end thanks largely to media saturation and the gargantuan egos of Albarn and Gallaghers.

The significant thing about Nirvana was that they were something the media didn't quite understand and couldn't control, rather than something they were gleeful participants in. Also come on, Nirvana >>>>>> any Britpop band.

Nirvana were perfectly marketable, whether they willed it or not the media were perfectly capable of promoting their music and creating a scene around them. Whether they were better or worse than the Britpop bands isn't relevant to anything.

I love this album. The only problem that I have with it is that it feels much, much colder to me that the albums that came immediately before and after it.

*that=than.

Is anyone willing to defend Crash and Carry?

it's 2020, I could just replace Crash and Carry with Petrol if I wanted. And I don't see any reason why I shouldn't.

"Crash and Carry" is great

what on earth is wrong with "crash and carry"

and why would you replace it with a track from in sides

Crash and Carry isn’t even among the lesser tracks on Sniviliasation, but in any event I wouldn’t change any of them, the album is about the shifts between sharply contrasting moods.

agreed

its definitely one of the lesser tracks but it's fairly catchy for what it is

"fairly catchy for what it is" is the best anyone's been able to come up with. zero people voted for it in the poll. it bangs on for 4:43. the main riff is too insistent to ignore, but doesn't have anything to say. some flute-like noises in the background try to create the illusion that something exciting is happening, like people hiding behind papier-mâché masks on sticks. it doesn't groove, it's not repetitive enough to trance out to - it lacks a rationale.

I like Crash and Carry. I had a great time driving too fast to it on a Florida summer night.

and why would you replace it with a track the worst track from in sides

I don't mind Crash And Carry but yes it's the weakest thing on the album (Quality Seconds is more fun and thankfully quite brief)

This has grown on me a lot in the last five years or so and Crash & Carry in particular.

It does feel like a holdover from the Brown Album but they probably surmised they needed at least one banger on there.

"Crash and Carry" isn't my favorite track on the album but it's in my top 3. Getting no votes in a "top choice only" poll doesn't mean no one likes it.

it doesn't groove, it's not repetitive enough to trance out to - it lacks a rationale.

that's kind of the point of it isn't it? every track on the album is weird. this one's a banger but it stutters around and trips up the beat. it's obviously not a key track on the album but without it I feel like it would be missing something.

it's in my top 3

that means you like it more than 3 of the following:

Forever
I Wish I Had Duck Feet
Kein Trink Wasser
Are We Here?
Attached

my post was a little extreme but you've gone round the bend

and why would you replace it with a track the worst track from in sides

that's true but it's essentially the same track as Crash and Carry, but better

the best album ever

as a drummer all the tiny snare rolls in "sad but true" give me a visceral thrill

I'm not a drummer but same

This album provided substantial levity and brightness to my days in high school, when little else did. Even now, it still acts as an emotional salve when I put it on.

really opened the doors for me to realize what electronic music was capable of. I still very vividly remember driving down the highway at the age of 17 and when "I Wish I Had Duck Feet" came on and it just blew my mind. nowadays its all about the last 2 tracks for me but obviously the whole thing is very much classic. crazy they haven't repressed it yet!!

It really is such a good album.

I'm curious as to what (if any) external sources what feels like such a leap forward from the Brown Album in terms of production and sound design. Snivilisation feels like such an archetypally mid-90s electronic album to me (in the sense of Bjork's Post) but it's hard to think of anything that pre-dated it that might have provided the template for it except in fairly loose or sparing senses (A Guy Called Gerald and other early jungle for "Are We Here?" for example). Though I suspect they listened to the first two Black Dog albums a bit.

* sources inspired what feels like...

Rapidly heading towards being 30 years old. Holy shit.

man how did they come up with this stuff. like "Are We Here?" dropping the main hook 10 minutes into the track, completely turning it from this crazy jungle build up to what sounds like an actual pop single, without really losing any of the stuff from the first part. that's such a cool way of thinking of a 15 minute epic.

my favorite song of theirs I think

the first version I ever heard was the "They Did It" remix

just like the original post, i was not ready to hear this album at the time. always thought InSides and the brown album were masterpieces; but this never caught on with me. and it is kinda of like an awkward in between album - but also very good. can't believe i didn't realize it's brilliance until 25 years later.

At least where I grew up, I remember hearing Are We Hear in DJ sets but *just* the early bits. I was extremely confused when I later saw the video for it and it was practically a different song.

I agree with the favorite song of theirs bit tho.

Kein Trink Wasser is my favourite Orbital track

this is the greatest album of all time

I rank In Sides over it but I think it’s their 2nd-best album

yeah I agree with that, here's how I break it down to an extent

In Sides > Snivilisation > Brown > Green > Middle of Nowhere > others