AL GREEN: CLASSIC OR DUD?

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That's more like it! Thanks.

Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Sunday, 6 April 2003 20:30 (twenty-one years ago) link

My favourite singer ever, and the music he made in the early '70s with Willie Mitchell producing and the Hodges Brothers and the peerless Al Jackson among the musicians is my favourite music ever. No one has ever sounded more as if they have explored and thought about and deeply felt every nuance of what he is singing about. Music gets no more beautiful and moving than Tired Of Being Alone, How Can You Mend A Broken Heart or Let's Stay Together.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 6 April 2003 20:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

He's the only guy who could make me go to church AND I'd probably let him fuck me.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 6 April 2003 21:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

i'd usually have nothing to say, simply because he's untouchable. i have never even questioned my love for his music.

gaz (gaz), Sunday, 6 April 2003 21:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

I made it through most of my life not knowing what the big deal was until a pal lent me Call Me which, yeah, is incredible drinking music, and seems to get better with age...

Pete Scholtes, Sunday, 6 April 2003 22:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

i still quite like xgau's bit:

http://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/music/green-76.php

esp the first two paragraphs

i can't think of another artist/band for whom my love (and yeah it goes beyond a deep and abiding affection or respect or whutever) is so unexamined, so basic and (dare i say it) pure.

jess (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 6 April 2003 22:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, I think I second that.

N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 7 April 2003 01:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

Green is obv a cut above, but as I think we've reached a "consensus of the willing" here (hopefully--it would be difficult for me to countenance dissent), who are your other favorite Hi Records singers/albums/singles?

I really like Otis Clay's Hi singles, like "Let Me Be the One."

More later.

Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 7 April 2003 02:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

OV Wright. A nickel and a nail. and Anne Peebles 99 Pounds or Tear your playhouse down.

gaz (gaz), Monday, 7 April 2003 02:10 (twenty-one years ago) link

Not a surprise for anyone who knows me but I pick Ann Peebles' "I Can't Stand the Rain" as not only the best pop single of all time but also really the only single that actually out-Memphises and out-souls "Let's Stay Together" and/or "Still in Love With You"

Kind of a surprise: I'm reviewing the reissues of those first Al Green albums on Hi, and Green Is Blue actually stacks up pretty well. Bonus track of him singing "I Want to Hold Your Hand" is OMG killa fire-honoring cover of all time

Neudonym, Monday, 7 April 2003 04:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

Al Green's unlikely covers are amazing

James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 04:30 (twenty-one years ago) link

Beyond classic. Quintessential is more like it. Don't forget "Gets Next to You" either. An essential album that precedes the Trinity.

Ann Peebles'"Trouble, Heartaches, and Sadness" is another Hi-Records gem that Al Green lovahs should search from her great album, "Straight From the Heart."

Cub, Monday, 7 April 2003 04:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

Instead of putting out needless best-of after needless best-of (the original Greatest Hits from '75 is perfect, and the albums are basically all worth owning, HINT TOM) The Right Stuff really ought to just do a covers comp. What a thing of wonder that would be....

M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 7 April 2003 12:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

are the new reissues that much of an improvement soundwise (a la the Stones reissues which are) I should rebuy them?

James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 13:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

...possibly the stupidest question ever posed in the history of mankind

Dadaismus, Monday, 7 April 2003 13:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

JB: The reissues are okay, soundwise, but I wouldn't say the transfer is Oh My God Amazing You Can Hear The Spittle! or anything. But they've all got bonus tracks, and maybe if more of us buy these Hi/Right Stuff will reissue everything. Right now it's just the first four...I don't know when/if they're getting to the rest of it.

But them bonus tracks is special. Green Is Blues includes not only "I Want to Hold Your Hand" but also two originals and a cover of Chuck Berry's "Memphis, Tennessee"; Gets Next to You has a nice long version of "Ride Sally Ride" and a couple more.

Neudonym, Monday, 7 April 2003 14:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Listen," a collection of rarities (earlier released on LP as "Love Ritual") is great. The remixed "bwana" version of "Love Ritual" is crazed Memphis/Afrobeat at its best. Willie Mitchell did a lot of great stuff--the Hi Records box contains much to enjoy. Bowlegs Miller doing "What Do You Mean" is probably my favorite non-Green Hi record, a truly insane song that my girlfriend notes I put on every single mix tape I made for a while, like Green I am an evangelist.

Mitchell's Royal Recording studio is still there in S. Memphis. Last time I visited the Big "S" Grill made a very good barbecue sandwich, good jukebox, and there's always Josie's Tamales near there if you need tamales, not to mention Blue Suede Shoe Shine...

Jess Hill (jesshill), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

I saw Al Green a couple of years ago in a big soft seat theatre and when he started "L-O-V-E", I somehow managed to leap to my feet in overexcitement and then instinctively tried to sit right back down in embarassment but my seat had automatically folded back up under me so I fell on my ass and as I got to my feet redfaced and I looked around me redfaced, everyone was just smiling happily at me like "I KNOW! I KNOW!" It was one of the nicest moments I've ever had seeing live music.


also, as others have mentioned here, there's a wealth of great stuff by other Hi artists like Ann Peebles, O.V. Wright, Otis Clay & Syl Johnson if you want more of that sound - what a band! Al Jackson and the Grimes bros, Willie Mitchell production... oh, oh, and Jess Hill is otm about the "Love Ritual" collection - "Up Above My Head is my favourite Al track maybe... sorry, it's just so fucking good... I'm about to fall off my chair again.

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

Otis Clay's "If I Could Reach Out (And Help Somebody)" is my favorite record in that late 60s/early 70s help-your-neighbor soul subgenre. Actually that's selling it short because that subgenre contained a lot of dross. It's a beautiful song and has the power to redeem the cliche referenced in the title. Another great Hi singer was George Jackson who sang one sang whose melody sounds suspiciously like the Clay tune just mentioned: "Aretha, Sing One for Me."

Like Stax/Volt etc., Hi's output was so prolific that a lot of horn and string charts, melodies, lyrical ideas, etc. got recycled. I have absolutely no problem with that whatever. It's actually a good way to determine what a given singer brings to the table.

I actually really like the later Hi stuff, from the late '70s, which both is slightly hampered by and benefits from a certain slackness, or quietude. Examples would be Ann Peebles's If This Is Heaven, Syl Johnson's Total Explosion, Al Green's Have a Good Time, etc.

O.V. Wright is sort of a force of nature; his Hi stuff sounds more like his pre-Hi stuff than you'd expect. He doesn't go "uptown" as much as other Hi artists of the period. "That's the Way I Feel About 'Cha" is a great balance though.

Crosspost w/Fritz!

Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

otis clay's "turning over the ground" deserves special mention too... and I meant "hodges bros." not "grimes bros.", I think. I need a valium thinking about this stuff.

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

also the cover art of the fantastic "Al Green Is Love" is hilarious, because the front cover is all nice and you look at it and think, "oh, Al Green Is Love" and then flip over to the back cover, where he's all sweaty and screwed up looking and you think , "Ugh, Al Green Is Stoned!"

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

haha!

James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

but anyway if anyone wants to argue about Al Green, the question is surely "Is any of the post-secular/post-Hi stuff any good?"

I don't really know, not having ventured into it... though the oft-maligned "The Belle Album" - the transitional one - is quite good.

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

also, anyone ever been here?
http://www.algreen.com/propic6.jpg

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

YES I HAVE BEEN! The fulfillment of all my Brit white-boy fantasies!

Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

RFI, S&D: Al Green's gospel recordings (though hardly anyone responded)

Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

Absolute classic. By the way, for those, like me, who are collecting the albums as they reissue them with bonus tracks, I emailed the label and they said that Call Me should be reissued by the end of the year, so I'm assuming that there's going to be another set of reissues coming soon.

Jonathan, Monday, 7 April 2003 15:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Belle Album" as far as I can tell has never been maligned. I have the orig. old Hi LP of it--I feel safe in asserting that it's Green's greatest album. "Call Me" is great too.

I was re-reading some Xgau reviews the other day and came across something he said about Green and the rhythm-section thing happening on those classic Hi records. Xgau says something about the "thick 3rd-beat" emphasis of the drumming and as far as I can tell that's a classic howler--Xgau can't count. He's hearing the second beat as the third beat for some reason--he's counting the eighth notes as quarter notes.

Jess Hill (jesshill), Monday, 7 April 2003 15:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, I was gonna say, is Belle Album really "oft-maligned?" In any case, it's great. Really great, often overlooked Al Green tracks: "That's the Way It Is," "Let It Shine," "Home Again," "Country Boy," "Feels Like Summer," "To Sir With Love."

Burr (Burr), Monday, 7 April 2003 17:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

as far as I can tell that's not a howler at all--since the songs are in 4/4 time why wouldn't he count them that way? I always have.

search Hi Rhythm's On the Loose, reissued a couple years ago w/some photo instead of whatever the original cover art was. they're not kidding--it's really loose, like about-to-fall-apart loose, and extremely charming for it

M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 7 April 2003 17:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

It's a howler because he's counting the second beat as the third. If you count the eighth notes as quarter notes then "one-and-two" gets misheard as "one-two-three." So Xgau thinks the drummer is accenting on the third beat when it's really the second. That's a howler.

Jess Hill (jesshill), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

In fairness to Xgau, I think the term "howler" should be reserved for really egregious and obvious errors. As far as I'm concerned this is just a simple mistake; one that I would never have picked up on.

I love Al Green btw.

Sean (Sean), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

Wow, this turned from a no-brainer to an all-hearter, or something...

Pete Scholtes, Tuesday, 8 April 2003 06:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

anyone asks me what the definition of sensual soul is i say Al Green is, love.

gaz (gaz), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 09:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

It's all a bit schmaltzy though, isn't it?
Not to mention the fact that they all just blend together.
Exceptions: "Here I Am Baby," and "Now That I've Found You."

Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 10:12 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah--but not being able to comprehend the basic rhythm of an artist for whom you later write liner notes seems pretty fucking egregious to me.

Ace Al Green track, the one I love above all: "Love is Real." The way he says "Say something..."

Jess Hill (jesshill), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 13:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

only Jess Hill knows anything about music shockah

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 13:20 (twenty-one years ago) link

He noticed a beatical oddity, that'll do won't it? This isn't an exam! Huge classic. Finding the two Lp 'Greatest Hits' for $2 may be my greatest ever record bargain, a lot of it is just too simply (in emotional terms) perfect to say much about. I like it, I think you should hear it if you haven't.

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 13:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

what? you have to ask if al greens classic? dumb thread

bobo t, Tuesday, 8 April 2003 13:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

only Jess Hill knows anything about music shockah

-- M Matos

Man, all I said was that I can count. Maybe that's a shockah where you come from.

Jess Hill (jesshill), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 15:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

Arithmetic is sorta taboo in Minneapolis (motherfucker's loves thems some algebra though)

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 15:17 (twenty-one years ago) link

It used to make me cry whenever he came on Ally McBeal.

I will leave that sentance as it stands for Dan's pleasure, but you know what I mean.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 19:10 (twenty-one years ago) link

Everyone loves and reveres Al Green, which pleases me. I go along with Clay, Wright, Peebles and maybe George Jackson and Syl Johnson as other Hi greats too. Don Bryant should get a mention too, and their girl group Quiet Elegance were terrific. I also like Norm West, Willie Walker, Philip Mitchell and others. And the musicians! Obviously Al Jackson is a god among musicians, but Howard Grimes only lacked the beauty of AJ's touch on the drums, Charles Hodges is my favourite organist ever, Leroy is a magnificent guitarist (listen to the start of Al's Love And Happiness), and Teenie a wonderful bassist - the three Hodges brothers. It's maybe the greatest house band the world has ever known. I think of Willie Mitchell as my favourite producer, but with these musicians and singers, how could he go wrong?

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 11 April 2003 19:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

I have the -- or is it a? -- greatest hits comp and it's indeed v. pleasant. Which may be damning with faint praise for everyone else here, I dunno...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 11 April 2003 19:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

(grumbles)

Amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 11 April 2003 19:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oh, someone said they want an album of Al Green's covers: it's called Cover Me Green, unfortunately. Don't know how available it is.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 11 April 2003 20:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

I've seen the Hi rhythm section several times, once behind Ann Peebles, once backing (disastrously) Alex Chilton...they're great. Grimes is really as good as Al Jackson, he's basically his successor. Teenie Hodges is a beautiful guitarist--Willie Mitchell has been quoted as saying that Al Green was in many ways really an extension of Teenie. "Teenie's Dream" which is on the Hi box set that came out in '95 is probably my favorite instrumental ever.

The thing that is interesting is the obvious connection between what Mitchell did and what Gamble and Huff did in Philly...and both scene's obvious role in the beginnings of disco music.

Jess Hill (jesshill), Friday, 11 April 2003 20:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

Grimes was groomed to be Jackson's rhythmic duplicate, according to that book Sweet Soul Music. He is too, but he doesn't quite have the delicate and subtle touch Jackson did. It's true that in any other context, he sounds a fucking great drummer - he'd still be in my all-time top ten.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 11 April 2003 20:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

Did anybody hear that, uh "comeback" cd that Syl Johnson released about a decade ago on Delmark, Back in the Game? A friend of mine produced it; he got Hi Rhythm to do the backing. I thought it was really enjoyable, but you definitely miss that Mitchell drum sound.

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Friday, 11 April 2003 20:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

Was grimes on drums? Because I don't find anything lacking in Al Green's later Hi LPs, all of which feature Grimes.

Jackson's drum sound on Stax records sounds quite a bit different than his sound on Hi records (at least in their respective golden ages). Hmm.

Amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 11 April 2003 21:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

Opened this thread, saw the words "Great obituary" and just about lost my shit for a moment before reading more closely.

RIP Howard Grimes.

Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Monday, 14 February 2022 20:02 (two years ago) link

Glad Grimes survived that period after Hi Records when he was divorced, homeless, and having addiction issues.
Got a bit of recognition and work in recent years.

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 15 February 2022 18:29 (two years ago) link

RIP to one of the greatest. Pretty sure Howard Grimes was on kit for "Love & Happiness". From Willie Mitchell:

“Usually I’d have Al (Jackson) play those sessions by himself,” Mitchell says. “Sometimes I’d play the conga drum with him, on things like ’Let’s Stay Together.’ But there were times that Al Jackson couldn’t get the feel I wanted, on songs like ’Take Me To The River’ or ’Love & Happiness,’ so I had Howard come in for that. Now, Al could actually play anything … but he couldn’t play it raggedy. And when that’s what I wanted to have, I called Howard.”

https://drummagazine.com/al-jackson-jr-the-sound-of-60s-soul/

change display name (Jordan), Tuesday, 15 February 2022 18:33 (two years ago) link

Pretty sure he talks about it on his Trap Set interview too:
https://www.thetrapset.net/042-howard-grimes-al-green-ann-peebles-rufus-thomas-the-bo-keys/

change display name (Jordan), Tuesday, 15 February 2022 18:33 (two years ago) link

Author Preston Lauterbach , who helped Howard Grimes prepare his book, is saying on his Substack that Grimes widow could use financial donations. He says just to contact him. He also notes that the wake of Friday, funeral Saturday, and on Saturday there will be a Beale Street processional beginning at 11:30am on the corner of Second and Beale.

curmudgeon, Thursday, 17 February 2022 01:47 (two years ago) link

five months pass...

i'm still in love with you is the greatest album of all time

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Thursday, 21 July 2022 16:26 (one year ago) link

checks out

pasty drunks fuck off (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 21 July 2022 16:40 (one year ago) link

Second only to Livin' For You.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 21 July 2022 16:55 (one year ago) link

I get caught up in the descending chord progressions of "What a Wonderful Thing Love Is" and "Look What You Done For Me".

Halfway there but for you, Thursday, 21 July 2022 17:28 (one year ago) link

I read that as "condescending" lol

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 21 July 2022 17:32 (one year ago) link

No, they're deeply compassionate!

Halfway there but for you, Thursday, 21 July 2022 17:34 (one year ago) link

the best version of "for the good times"

Heez, Thursday, 21 July 2022 18:16 (one year ago) link

If I had to pick only one, it would be Call Me, but why pick one masterpiece over another? There's at least five in a row, plus Belle later on and a bunch of good ones in between and after.

birdistheword, Thursday, 21 July 2022 18:22 (one year ago) link

a lot of his albums are severely underrated. i scored Al Green Is Love for 5 bucks recently at a pretty expensive record store.

Heez, Thursday, 21 July 2022 18:27 (one year ago) link

beat guitar sound, best drum sound

brimstead, Thursday, 21 July 2022 18:45 (one year ago) link

best

brimstead, Thursday, 21 July 2022 18:45 (one year ago) link

Love Ritual: Rare and Previously Unreleased 1968-1976 is a great one too. He left plenty of choice rarities in the can.

I just wish there was a definitive concert film, but you can at least piece together a great video compilation of his TV performances. (The live Tokyo album ain't bad, but it's not the great live album he has in him.)

birdistheword, Thursday, 21 July 2022 19:25 (one year ago) link

seven months pass...

Midnight Special YT channel just uploaded some clips from '73 & '74

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVMijYHnbGw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evv1xwK5UYA

ty these are greaat

four square ups... no punches thrown (Spottie), Thursday, 16 March 2023 23:51 (one year ago) link

oh dear

budo jeru, Friday, 17 March 2023 03:49 (one year ago) link

great revive

budo jeru, Friday, 17 March 2023 03:59 (one year ago) link

"Jesus is Waiting" is almost enough to make me want to accept the Lord.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 17 March 2023 04:02 (one year ago) link

He was so great in the '70s, it's a shame there hasn't been a definitive live release put together, either an album or a DVD/Blu-ray. (The Tokyo album didn't quite do him justice.) It's all out there is pieces though, like in those clips.

birdistheword, Friday, 17 March 2023 04:13 (one year ago) link

I don't think I have seen the 1984 Robert Mugge directed live "Gospel According to Al Green" film doc

curmudgeon, Friday, 17 March 2023 15:40 (one year ago) link

Awesome revive

✖✖✖ (Moka), Friday, 17 March 2023 16:56 (one year ago) link

Can't help but notice the front row of the audience is all women.

Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Friday, 17 March 2023 21:44 (one year ago) link

it's a shame there hasn't been a definitive live release put together

in my opinion, the videos make the experience; his moves are everything. when it comes to audio, i'm extremely fine listening to the studio recordings, which are some of the best sounding records ever.

budo jeru, Friday, 17 March 2023 21:54 (one year ago) link

Can't help but notice the front row of the audience is all women.

― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Friday, March 17, 2023 9:44 PM (eighteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

uh yeah did you see the man singing on stage? god at his peak he was just unbelievably hot.

xp to jimbeaux you made my heart skip a beat thinking that one of these midnight specials was a "jesus is waiting" performance but alas

ꙮ (map), Friday, 17 March 2023 22:07 (one year ago) link

sorry to be crass but al green setting the tempo by clapping before the band kicks in on "love and happiness" is on some "fuck me right goddamn now" shit

ꙮ (map), Friday, 17 March 2023 22:09 (one year ago) link

all about the foreplay

corrs unplugged, Saturday, 18 March 2023 17:16 (one year ago) link

five months pass...

new single, cover of "Perfect Day"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5NT_079_X0

Brad C., Tuesday, 22 August 2023 16:05 (seven months ago) link

Whoa.

Random Restaurateur (Jordan), Tuesday, 22 August 2023 17:30 (seven months ago) link

He sounds great!

dinnerboat, Tuesday, 22 August 2023 18:50 (seven months ago) link

His voice is great but I am not sure about the arrangement . Need to listen again

curmudgeon, Thursday, 24 August 2023 04:55 (seven months ago) link

His voice is still in great shape, but he doesn't really sell these particular lyrics (he doesn't even attempt the note of doomed heartbreak Lou achieves in his vocals on the original, and Al Green can definitely do heartbreak if he wants to), and like 90% of everything Green has recorded away from Willie Mitchell, the production/arrangement seems to have no idea how to compliment his gorgeous voice.

MumblestheRevelator, Saturday, 26 August 2023 10:51 (seven months ago) link

Yeah, he floats above the melody.

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 26 August 2023 11:34 (seven months ago) link

Lou put Belle by Al Green in his top 10

https://www.clashmusic.com/news/lou-reed-once-named-his-10-favourite-albums/

bbq, Saturday, 26 August 2023 11:41 (seven months ago) link

He was well known as a big Al Green fan.

Monthly Python (Tom D.), Saturday, 26 August 2023 11:47 (seven months ago) link

there is something problematic with the verses being in a higher register than the chorus. maybe it's something a non-singer can pull off better than a singer.

Thus Sang Freud, Saturday, 26 August 2023 11:58 (seven months ago) link

the "You're going to reap just what you sow" outro has a very different vibe coming from the Rev. Green

Brad C., Saturday, 26 August 2023 17:42 (seven months ago) link

Al has always been Christian obviously, but I love this one from his “Christian” albums

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo-rWMAfbNs

bbq, Saturday, 26 August 2023 23:02 (seven months ago) link


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