― james e l, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Michael Bourke, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
You're very much OFF the money there, Pinefox. Will explain why in detail later on.
― Dr. C, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― the pinefox, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Jason, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Can't quite figure out whether that's a putdown of the Clash, or the Ramones, or neither, or both - and I'm not even European !
― Patrick, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― alex in nyc, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― the pinefox, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Mike Hanle y, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Dr. C, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
They became an institution for a reason, Mike. They admittedly worked the gimmick angle (certainly no more so than, say, the much-fawned over White Stripes), but I risk flogging the very obvious point by saying they did it *FIRST*! Respect is due. As for frankness, I don't believe anyone is saying their later work is as significant as their seminal first few albums.
― Sean, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
To me this is so far wide of the mark that it completely misses what early-Ramones are all about. The analogies with Brill building and early 60's girlpop songcraft has been trotted out so often wrt The Ramones that it's tempting to dismiss it out-of-hand. There is some truth in it though - I can hear the Shangri-La's, say, in I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend or Babysitter. That's not to say that this automatically makes the Ramones good, of course.
But they're better than good - they're masters. Their best songs are great because they are lean and simple - there's nothing that shouldn't be there. Couple this with a simple melodic hook(nothing fancy - 4 chords max. and another 2 for the middle 8) and a propulsive beat, and you have something irresistable. Add some elements of The Ramones 'own world' imagery (pick from : NY street images, retards, 'nam casualties, glue, girls)and you have genius.
Take "Glad to see you Go" from Leave Home - straight into a Beach Boys/Eddie Cochrane morphed melody and just listen to the way that the song shifts gear slightly on lines 3 and 4 of the verse as Tommy closes the high-hat a touch under the chords and melody. The shift into the chorus is sublime and the sheer rush as it comes back to the last verse from the middle 8 ("I need somebody good, I need a miracle") is like a ride in the space shuttle - on the outside.
Take "Rockaway Beach" - another point on the curve linking "Summer in the City", " Dancing in the Street" and "Baby on more Time". Again - great chorus, great lyrics ("Chewin out a rhythm on my bubblegum") and a sense of PLACE. In less than 3 minutes you feel exactly what it's like to be a teenager in baking hot NY - and you feel it every single time you hear it. That's great songwriting, Pinefox.
Rockaway, Glad..., Listen to My Heart, 53rd and 3rd, You Should Never Have Opened That Door are equals of "Please, Please Me", "California Girls", "My Generation" ..... the list goes on....if you can look past the "punk" thing which is really a red herring as far as The Ramones are concerned.
I guess it all depends on what you look for in a song - they're not Burt or Jimmy Webb, but they tell a story, crank up the adrenaline, and make their own world for 3 mins for EVERY SINGLE TRACK on the first 4 albums. That's classic.
I am still not particularly convinced about the overall point. In fact, come to think of it, I'm not at all convinced. But to be reasonable about this, I'm going to have to leave it till I've listened to the Ramones again.
― gareth, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― duane, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Sterling Clover, Tuesday, 17 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
But, Dr.C makes such a good case for Da Ramones that I'm thinking of checking them out again.
But part2, Jason makes a very interesting point that almost gets buried: the puritanism of much punk. I feel it's a key to why I don't like much of the stuff (although most of the time I think of punk as anorexic - no bottom ;) Will go up on the mountain and meditate on this insight.
― Omar, Tuesday, 17 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Dr. C, Tuesday, 17 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Which kind of explains why I like so few American bands. Seems that whatever genre they work in, there's always that wide Rock streak that suffuses it all and kind of obliterates whatever else they're trying to do.
― CountV/John T, Wednesday, 18 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Josh, Wednesday, 18 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― the pinefox, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Dr. C, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
OH-OH-I-LOVE-HER-SO-O-OH.
― bob snoom, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Dr. C, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
So I went to see what I thought was going to be a bunch of dodgy old punks on Saturday night and ended up seeing a dodgy old Scottish Ramones (this is a good thing).
Then I told my son (Mark, 5 and three quarters) that "Brian's band sound like the Ramones" and his jaw dropped and he said "THE RAMONES? REALLY? COOL!" and I think it's cool as fuck that my kid thinks it's cool that someone his dad knows is in a band that sounds a wee bit like The Ramones.
Then I listened to It's Alive this morning on the way to work and it reasserted itself as not only the best live album ever, but possibly one of the BEST ANYTHINGS EVER!
C.L.A.S.S.I.C.
Anyway, Weird Tales of the Ramones, anyone got it yet and want to tell me why I really need to buy it regardless of what I already own?
― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 22 August 2005 15:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― Soukesian, Monday, 22 August 2005 16:38 (eighteen years ago) link
― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 22 August 2005 18:15 (eighteen years ago) link
― Jim Reckling (Jim Reckling), Monday, 22 August 2005 19:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 22 August 2005 19:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 22 April 2006 02:09 (eighteen years ago) link
This is looking pretty classic:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ramones-Its-Alive-1974-1996/dp/B000EGEVZK
Finally, the It's Alive footage on DVD, with about, er, 100 other tracks!
DVD1: ------- CBGB New York, NY (9/15/74) Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue I Don't Wanna Go Down To The Basement Judy Is A Punk
Max’s Kansas City New York, NY (4/18/76) I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend 53rd and 3rd
The Club Cambridge, MA (5/12/76) Chain Saw
Max’s Kansas City New York, NY (10/8/76) Havana Affair Listen To My Heart
My Father’s Place Roslyn, NY (4/13/77) I Remember You Carbona Not Glue
CBGB New York, NY (6/11/77) Blitzkrieg Bop Sheena Is A Punk Rocker Beat On The Brat Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue Rockaway Beach Cretin Hop Oh Oh I Love Her So Today Your Love, Tomorrow The World
The Second Chance Ann Arbor, MI (6/26/77) Rockaway Beach Carbona Not Glue
The Ivanhoe Theater Chicago, IL (7/6/77) Pinhead Suzy Is A Headbanger
The Armadillo Austin, TX (7/14/77) Early Show Commando I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend
The Armadillo Austin, TX (7/14/77) Late Show Now I Wanna Be A Good Boy 53rd & 3rd Today Your Love, Tomorrow The World
Liberty Hall Houston, TX (7/15/77) Loudmouth I Remember You Gimme Gimme Shock Treatment
Liberty Hall Houston, TX (7/16/77) Oh Oh I Love Her So Today Your Love, Tomorrow The World
Don Kirshner’s Rock Concert L.A., CA (8/9/77) Loudmouth Judy Is A Punk Glad To See You Go Gimme Gimme Shock Treatment
The Camera Mart Stages New York, NY (9/3/77) Swallow My Pride Pinhead Sheena Is A Punk Rocker
It’s Alive, The Rainbow Theatre London (12/31/77) Blitzkrieg Bop I Wanna Be Well Glad To See You Go You're Gonna Kill That Girl Commando Havana Affair Cretin Hop Listen To My Heart I Don't Wanna Walk Around With You Pinhead Do You Wanna Dance? Now I Wanna Be A Good Boy Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue We're A Happy Family
Bonus features: - Dee Dee and Joey - The Beginning (Interview) - Tommy - Forest Hills High School (Interview) - Danny Fields - Revelations (Interview) - Joey & Dee Dee - Influences (Interview) - Joey & Danny - Artistic Growth (Interview) - Violence? (Interview) - What is Punk? (Interview) - Tommy - How I learned to play drums and we got a record deal (Interview) - Dee Dee - Coffee And Cigarettes (Interview) - Johnny - Hard To Stop (Interview) - Argentina - The First Time (Interview) - Mandagsborgen (Interview) - Sha Na Na Shenanigans (Interview) - It's Not My Place (In The 9 To 5 World) (Video) - Somebody Put Something In My Drink (Rare Video) (Rough Cut) - Photo Galleries (Also Ramones fans got chance to send photos taken by them to the DVD).
DVD2: ------- Musikladen Bremen, Germany (9/13/78) Rockaway Beach Teenage Lobotomy Blitzkrieg Bop Don't Come Close I Don't Care She's The One Sheena Is A Punk Rocker Cretin Hop Listen To My Heart I Don't Wanna Walk Around With You Pinhead
The Old Grey Whistle Test London (9/19/78) Don't Come Close She's The One Go Mental
Top of the Pops London (9/28/78) Don't Come Close
Oakland, CA (12/28/78) I'm Against It Needles And Pins
San Francisco Civic Center, S.F., CA (6/9/79) I Want You Around I'm Affected California Sun
The Old Grey Whistle Test London (1/15/79 Rock 'N' Roll High School Do You Remember Rock 'N' Roll Radio?
Top of the Pops London (1/31/80) Baby I Love You
Sha Na Na L.A., CA (5/19/80) Rock 'N' Roll High School
Mandagsborsen Stockholm, Sweden (10/26/81) We Want The Airwaves
TVE Musical Express Madrid, Spain (11/17/81) This Business Is Killing Me All Quiet On The Eastern Front
US Festival San Bernardino, CA (9/3/82) Do You Remember Rock 'N' Roll Radio? Gimme Gimme Shock Treatment Rock 'N' Roll High School I Wanna Be Sedated Beat On The Brat The KKK Took My Baby Away Here Today, Gone Tomorrow Chinese Rocks Teenage Lobotomy
The Old Grey Whistle Test London (2/26/85) Wart Hog Chasing The Night
Obras Sanitarias, Buenos Aires, Argentina (2/3/87) Blitzkrieg Bop Freak Of Nature Crummy Stuff Love Kills I Don't Care Too Tough To Die Mama's Boy
Provinssirock Festival, Seinäjoki, Finland (6/4/88) I Don't Want You Anymore Weasel Face Garden Of Serenity I Just Want To Have Something To Do Surfin' Bird Cretin Hop Somebody Put Something In My Drink We're A Happy Family
R.I.T., Rochester, NY (10/8/88) Do You Remember Rock 'N' Roll Radio Wart Hog
Rolling Stone Club Milan, Italy (3/16/92) Psycho Therapy I Believe In Miracles I Wanna Live My Brain Is Hanging Upside Down (Bonzo Goes To Bitburg) Pet Sematary Animal Boy Pinhead
Top of the Pops London (6/29/95) I Don't Wanna Grow Up
River Plate Stadium, Buenos Aires, Argentina (3/16/96) I Wanna Be Sedated R.A.M.O.N.E.S. Blitzkrieg Bop
― StanM, Monday, 27 August 2007 18:53 (sixteen years ago) link
(also, LOL at those reviewers going on about this without looking up the tracklist)
― StanM, Monday, 27 August 2007 18:55 (sixteen years ago) link
Oof -- might have to pick this up.
― Alex in NYC, Monday, 27 August 2007 18:57 (sixteen years ago) link
wow, overkill but I gotta have it. love dr. c on this thread, can't believe i never read it before.
― fritz, Monday, 27 August 2007 19:10 (sixteen years ago) link
R.I.T., Rochester, NY (10/8/88)
hmm. i saw them there in may of either '88 or '89. but given their touring at the time i guess maybe they played there twice in a year.
― tipsy mothra, Monday, 27 August 2007 20:43 (sixteen years ago) link
OMG hello birthday present!
― If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Tuesday, 28 August 2007 07:01 (sixteen years ago) link
The Dr. C breakdown of Ramones songcraft upthread just splattered my mind on the wall. So perfect.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 28 August 2007 07:08 (sixteen years ago) link
Agreed. But the fact that he had to even MAKE that point makes me sad and frustrated. I'm all for skewering the sacred cows, but c'mon - how can anyone NOT like the fucking Ramones?? Possibly the most classic-est band evah!!! Upthread, all I see is more ILX Contrarian Rally nonsense...
― If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Tuesday, 28 August 2007 09:22 (sixteen years ago) link
"Tell me son, what is minimalism?"
Ramones are a band that always sound tremendous when I'm out somewhere, but never feel the urge to listen to at home.
They're a sort of necessary blast of rudeness. But not when I'm in a comfy chair.....
― PhilK, Tuesday, 28 August 2007 19:31 (sixteen years ago) link
Does anyone have this yet? I ordered it online, expecting it any day now.
― StanM, Friday, 5 October 2007 09:35 (sixteen years ago) link
It's here! The box is very pink.
http://www.ramonesitsalivedvd.com/
― StanM, Friday, 5 October 2007 13:19 (sixteen years ago) link
Had to revisit this - someone uploaded the HD version (albeit the cropped one):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MIYVamAiN8
― birdistheword, Wednesday, 30 March 2022 16:44 (two years ago) link
Feel like maybe I spam this but you just reminded me ofhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_1sA0PVArw
― The Central Rockaliser (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 30 March 2022 17:16 (two years ago) link
I didn't know about Johnny's head injury. The first time I saw them was spring '84, which would have been the next tour after his recovery. (They were great, of course.)
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 30 March 2022 17:48 (two years ago) link
I'm just curious... has anyone here seen the Ramones live in all of these phases? Or at least three of them?
a. 1976-1977 w/Tommy on drumsb. 1978-1983 w/Marky on drumsc. 1983-1987 w/Richie on drumsd. 1987-1989 w/Marky again post-sobrietye. 1990- w/Marky on drums but C.J. instead of Dee Dee
If so, which lineup was your favorite?
― Josefa, Thursday, 31 March 2022 19:16 (two years ago) link
*Tommy 1974-1977 should be
― Josefa, Thursday, 31 March 2022 19:19 (two years ago) link
Tommy period is obviously the best but Marky is the best drummer.
― everything, Thursday, 31 March 2022 20:28 (two years ago) link
Fair enough.
― Never Mind the ILX, Here's the Blecch Pistols (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 31 March 2022 20:29 (two years ago) link
It's gonna be incredible.
― Anita Quatloos (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 14 April 2022 23:13 (two years ago) link
Some radio station I used to listen to had an except of Joey saying those words that is now burned in my brain since I heard it over and over and over, but doesn't look like I will be able to discover its provenance.
― Anita Quatloos (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 14 April 2022 23:14 (two years ago) link
I'm watching the documentary Ramones RAW where Gilbert Gottfried reveals how he was the secret fifth Ramone. @RealGilbert pic.twitter.com/IH3VQUtsX8— tom c (@librariantom) March 11, 2022
― Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 14 April 2022 23:24 (two years ago) link
"Somebody Put Something in My Drink" is actually the first Ramones song I remember encountering.
it was one of my first too. I had Sheena Is A Punk Rocker on a compilation and I liked it but it seemed kinda lightweight next to some of the UK punk on the same compilation. one of my friends at the time was this Greek stoner guy who was into punk and metal but mostly the kind of skater 90s stuff like NOFX, Lagwagon and Propagandhi. I used to bring my Dead Kennedys CDs round. anyway he was playing Ramones Mania one night but it was towards the end and he was like yeah this is the Ramones and it was Somebody Put Something In My Drink and I didn't really like it, thought it was too rock/metal or something. I've come around on it a bit since.
anyway a couple of years later I bought All The Stuff And More 1 & 2 and that was it I was off
― even the birds in the trees seemed to whisper "get fucked" (bovarism), Friday, 15 April 2022 01:02 (two years ago) link
We shouldn't forget Elvis Ramone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXWSyo0aPnc
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/blondie-clem-burke-the-ramones/
This departure put The Ramones into turmoil as they needed to replace Richie, and fast. Having already been forced to postpone a pair of hometown shows at New York’s Ritz, the band were desperately aiming to avoid more concert cancellations when they made the call to Clem Burke, calling in a favour and join inventing ‘Elvis Ramone’. Despite being an offer that Burke couldn’t refuse, he was immediately thrown straight into the deep end with little to no rehearsal time to help integrate him into the Ramone family.Recalling years later, The Blondie drummer described his first live show with fellow New Yorkers a disaster: “They asked me on a Monday when they had a gig on a Friday,” Burke explained. “It was the hardest work I ever did in a band.” Burke would only ever do one more show with the Ramones, the band deciding in the days between their next show that his style wasn’t the perfect fit.The following weekend, as the drumming revolving door turned once again, the band made the call to re-appoint Marky Ramone who, of course, was their original drummer before Richie took up the sticks. Marky, it’s well documented, originally left the band due to drink problems which, thankfully, he was able to curb and he would stay in the band until their final show as an outfit in 1996.Years later, while reflecting on the turbulent years, Joey Ramone explained why Burke and the Ramones styles didn’t quite work out: “His drumming style wasn’t right,” he said. “It was very loose, like in Blondie, not as rigid as we need. Double time on the hi-hat was totally alien to him.”
Recalling years later, The Blondie drummer described his first live show with fellow New Yorkers a disaster: “They asked me on a Monday when they had a gig on a Friday,” Burke explained. “It was the hardest work I ever did in a band.” Burke would only ever do one more show with the Ramones, the band deciding in the days between their next show that his style wasn’t the perfect fit.
The following weekend, as the drumming revolving door turned once again, the band made the call to re-appoint Marky Ramone who, of course, was their original drummer before Richie took up the sticks. Marky, it’s well documented, originally left the band due to drink problems which, thankfully, he was able to curb and he would stay in the band until their final show as an outfit in 1996.
Years later, while reflecting on the turbulent years, Joey Ramone explained why Burke and the Ramones styles didn’t quite work out: “His drumming style wasn’t right,” he said. “It was very loose, like in Blondie, not as rigid as we need. Double time on the hi-hat was totally alien to him.”
― Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 16 April 2022 07:24 (two years ago) link
Lol, of course
― Ramones Leave the Capitol (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 16 April 2022 09:20 (two years ago) link
But I definitely don't want to buy a 7-LP box set of the 80s Ramones records.
I definitely bought the 7-lp box set of 80s Ramones records.
― peace, man, Monday, 9 May 2022 18:29 (one year ago) link
LOL
― birdistheword, Monday, 9 May 2022 19:32 (one year ago) link
https://boingboing.net/2022/08/02/someone-sneaked-a-super-8-camera-into-a-1978-ramones-concert-and-was-able-to-record-for-13-minutes-before-he-got-caught.html
― thinkmanship (sleeve), Thursday, 4 August 2022 19:23 (one year ago) link
Pretty great!
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 4 August 2022 19:44 (one year ago) link
With all the original members dead and all the albums canonized in box sets, deluxe editions, etc., etc., it's hard to imagine what their impact must have been when they were new. But imagine living in Kansas City in 1978 and that band comes through town. It would have been life-altering.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Thursday, 4 August 2022 20:02 (one year ago) link
Oh, this is actual Kansas City! I just looked at the youtube title and assumed it was Max's Kansas City.
― peace, man, Thursday, 4 August 2022 21:33 (one year ago) link
haha same
― thinkmanship (sleeve), Thursday, 4 August 2022 21:39 (one year ago) link
That was awesome, thanks for sharing!
― birdistheword, Thursday, 4 August 2022 22:27 (one year ago) link
just in case people didn't know, there's a great 26 minute Live At The Rainbow 1977 video on YouTube too, from the It's Alive concert
― StanM, Thursday, 4 August 2022 22:39 (one year ago) link
the start of that is too camera flip heavy + some shots are reused but it gets better
― StanM, Thursday, 4 August 2022 22:41 (one year ago) link
Man, I got to get that Ramones DVD set now. Just looking at the tracklist makes me drool.
― birdistheword, Friday, 5 August 2022 02:57 (one year ago) link
This one?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp3zaeOyL7Q
― My Little Red Buchla (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 5 August 2022 18:16 (one year ago) link
yeah! (sorry, was on my phone, could have linked that myself)
― StanM, Saturday, 6 August 2022 00:04 (one year ago) link
Saw a little something interesting on a certain substack yesterday, assuming TSF saw it as well.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 2 February 2023 11:20 (one year ago) link
https://waynerobins49.substack.com/p/ramones-leave-home
― Thus Sang Freud, Thursday, 2 February 2023 15:28 (one year ago) link
would have loved to see dr feelgood. i don't think i saw the ramones until 1977. saw them once at cbgb but it was a madhouse.
― Thus Sang Freud, Thursday, 2 February 2023 15:32 (one year ago) link
Gabba gabba weeks said you weeks said you one of us
― calstars, Friday, 25 August 2023 00:53 (eight months ago) link
Ramones and Dr Feelgood would have been fun. I didn't see Ramones till 79
― curmudgeon, Friday, 25 August 2023 14:09 (eight months ago) link
Fabulous
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8sNfCdCAJg
― Monthly Python (Tom D.), Wednesday, 13 September 2023 17:10 (seven months ago) link
11 songs in 20 minutes. Amazing.
― read-only (unperson), Wednesday, 13 September 2023 17:32 (seven months ago) link
Man, that totally hit the spot. Made my day, maybe my week.
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 13 September 2023 23:07 (seven months ago) link
wonderful <3
― brimstead, Thursday, 14 September 2023 00:53 (seven months ago) link
So great. Thanks.
― BlackIronPrison, Thursday, 14 September 2023 01:49 (seven months ago) link
You see that and you wonder why the Ramones weren’t big stars right away in the US. I think it was down to the radio formatting at the time.
― Josefa, Thursday, 14 September 2023 02:00 (seven months ago) link
Force of nature. That's why It's Alive! is my favorite Ramones album, it's like a freight train.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, 14 September 2023 03:22 (seven months ago) link
that "all downstrokes" rule was punishing.
― Thus Sang Freud, Thursday, 14 September 2023 10:25 (seven months ago) link
Did you subject yourself to that rule at any point, TSF?
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 14 September 2023 11:03 (seven months ago) link
only long enough to prove to myself those guys were crazy.
― Thus Sang Freud, Thursday, 14 September 2023 13:37 (seven months ago) link
There are other situations where people do it, but maybe not ever single bar(re) of every single song.
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 14 September 2023 13:43 (seven months ago) link