Van Morrison: your views please

Bobby Gillespie: "Gie' us a smile Van, go on, yer face is aye trippin' ye. The 'Gers are daein' awright noo wi' Big Watty back at the helm - 'zat no' enough tae cheer ye up?"

i find how assholish he apparently is part of the appeal, he seems like the least likeable major star like ever....yet he writes these really warm songs that are sort of intergenerational classics, it's odd....and onstage he has the whole kind of otis redding thing, real soul belting giving it all, etc, yet it doesn't seem warm, even during the big climaxes he doesn't seem to care about the crowd or trying to engage them, it's like he's got some personal little place he's trying to reach or something and fuck you if you don't get it.

this cypress is even better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isHjUEvfzFY&NR=1

i find how assholish he apparently is part of the appeal, he seems like the least likeable major star like ever

Lou Reed?

yeah maybe lou is even worse. but van is a way bigger star i think for the average person.

True and less of a dick too

One man who would talk about Morrison was Ted Templeman, a Warner Bros. staff producer known for his work with the Doobie Brothers and Van Halen. In the early Seventies, Templeman produced three of Morrison's albums -- Tupelo Honey, St. Dominic's Preview, and It's Too Late to Stop Now -- and he was recently quoted in 'BAM', a regional music newspaper, as saying, "I'd never work with Van Morrison again as long as I live, even if he offered me $2 million in cash. I aged ten years producing three of his albums. He's a marvelous talent, a fantastic singer, but he's fired everyone who's ever worked with him -- all his producers, his managers, his attorneys. He's so unpredictable."

... this from a guy who worked with Beefheart!

and Eddie Van Halen!

I prefer strung-out, delirious Van to any other, so Veedon Fleece blows away all of his other albums. I can't think of another artist who has made albums I love and hate to such degrees as this guy.

i really really need to hear veedon fleece

Likewise. Anybody know if that's Ronnie Montrose on guitar in the 2nd "Cypress Ave." clip?

I've heard Veedom Fleece compared favorably to Astral Weeks, but I just don't hear it myself.

Glad to see the love for Veedon Fleece. It seems like when it came out, 1974, most people's attentions were elsewhere and the reviews didn't get it (well, the very few I've seen from back then). I don't think VF sounds like AW at all. But what they share is a certain free-floating, stream-of-consciousness. "Fair Play" is just two chords floating back and forth..."Bulbs" is the only real conventional pop tune (and the single), but "You Don't Pull No Punches" is that weird, improvisational nonsense that Van does so well -- and which he goes into overload on Common One, as "Summertime In England" has its fans and detractors. (Personally, I"m all for it, for I wouldn't use it to convert anyone.)

The THEM 2-CD does seem to collect everything except "Mighty Like A Rose," which can be found on Backtrackin', an LP collection of outtakes. Lester Bangs had mentioned how he'd had arguments with people about whether or not Van's early work was about pedophilia and obviously the 14 year old of "Cyprus Avenue" can be a bit creepy, but "Mighty" also discusses a girl of 14 summers...

As per age, I liked how Jagger dropped the girl from "Stray Cat BLues" from 15 to 13 on Ya-Ya's, something he wouldn't do today, I'm sure. And changed the woman in "Spider and the Fly" from 30 to 50 for the version on Stripped...and yet he's still WAY older...

and great clips on YouTube. thanks for the heads-up.

Veedon Fleece is impossible to find on CD, my copy is either on cassette or MP3, pretty sure you can find it on vinyl. I've heard mixed reactions, some people think it's not strong because it's not as jazz-inflected as Astral Weeks, it's much more of a spare folk album (although the baseball imagery on "Bulbs," matched to some corny upbeat hoo ha, is plain bizarre on an album that's by and large about depression and insanity.) I gave it to a good friend of mine when a close family member of his died and it turned into his favorite album.

Also, "Linden Arden Stole the Highlights" = best Van Morrison song by a long shot.

and

First verse of "Fair Play," 1st song on Veedon Fleece:

Fair play to you
Killarney's lakes are so blue
And the architecture I'm taking in with my mind
So fine...

Not sure if there's an opening verse quite as mentally unsound and yet devastatingly gorgeous as that one.

i just picked up the new vinyl reissue on Sundazed...it's good...it's definitely about exactly what you'd expect...some sort of middle ground between Them and astral weeks...a lot of it is just good solid RnB stuff...also brown eyed girl obv. and then the TB Sheets as well, which I guess his first weird art epic type thing....very odd song, almost stranger in it's way than Astral Weeks...I'd actually never heard it before and I expected something more similar to Astral Weeks but it's a lot different actually.

Like 3rd/ Sisters Lovers, Blowin' yr Mind/ TB sheets has suffered from multiple versions and no set track listing; and the Blowin' yr Mind version misses the early RnB version of Madame George, which, in some moods i prefer to the AW one.

I'll never be a huge fan, but I finally got copies of Tupelo Honey and Veedon Fleece last spring and, while both have their moments, I think St Dominic's Preview is the best album for an agnostic; it nicely bridges the arty and the poppy.

The song that kills me on Veedon Fleece is the last one, "Country Fair."

Veedon Fleece is impossible to find on CD
It's out there, but copies are scarce and you'll probably have to pay at least $30.

That's too bad. I guess my copy is really old.

I'd love to see a Ryko-style rerelease of all this early stuff.

hmm my CD of Veedon Fleece is from 1999, i think? those reissues are out of print? curious! his back catalog could use some work for sure ... there are a ton of good outtakes, i think -- some of which are collected on the now probably out of print Philosopher's Stone double disc. It's a patchy set to be sure, but there are some essential tracks -- "Contemplation Rose" might be one of my favorite Van songs ...

I don't think I have ever met a single van morrison fan in person

anyway, yeah, I never got the "Veedon Fleece is a cousin to Astral Weeks" train of thought -- I think that might just be because neither of them have a real R&B flavor ... But both are great, no doubt about it. There was a Robyn Hitchcock single from the late 80s where he does both "Fair Play" and "Linden Arden" -- surprisingly beautiful stuff. I think Robyn starts off kinda making fun of Van, but seems to be swept away by the song as it continues ...

sure I own Astral Weeks and its pretty good and I heard Moondance and Brown-Eyed Girl a lot from the trustafarian hippies in college but ... I find this cult of his strange and mysterious

x-post

xpost to shakey
that's funny, i know tons of van obsessives. my dad was one for starters, but Van was key to lots of ex-garage punk types I know who got into him through Them. He really did some amazing shit outside of astral weeks... If you think you hate Van, start with TB Sheets.
like 3rd/ Sisters Lovers, Blowin' yr Mind/ TB sheets has suffered from multiple versions and no set track listing; and the Blowin' yr Mind version misses the early RnB version of Madame George, which, in some moods i prefer to the AW one.

I think the best way to get everything he recorded between Them & Astral Weeks is on the Bang Masters comp, but I could be wrong... but yeah I have 3 records with slightly different line-ups of the songs on Blowin' Your Mind/TB Sheets. I like the one known as TB Sheets best (especially for the version of Madame George as you mention) but it's missing some good r&b stuff - especially "Send Your Mind" which is a great Them-styled stomper.

The only problem I remember with Bang Masters was that it included the alt.take of "He Ain't Give You None" and not the original.

I heard about that Hitchcock single but have never seen it anywhere. I got to thinking it was just a rumor.

I remember a friend bought a copy of a remastered Veedon Fleece a few years back but I haven't looked in years. Weird how what you see tons of one day is suddenly rare the next.

Most Van Morrison fans never leave their homes. I don't think I've ever seen a Van Morrison T-Shirt. I don't think I would wear one.

Count me in on the Veedon Fleece train. His vocal performance on Linden Arden Stole the Highlights is simply stunning-- which is saying a lot considering who we're talking about.

The thing that will make me an apologist for Van Morrison (at least his music) forever, is Beside You on AW. That song, the lyrics, the overall performance, everything...seems to have originated from some deep, haunted visionary place; there is some transhuman perspective going on there or something, like he's merely functioning as a mouthpiece for some urgent communication of nonetheless eternal archetypes. (which sounds like complete bullocks, I realize, but, never mind my clumsiness...give the song a listen, fucking amazing). Unfortunately, some of his late 70's and eighties stuff and whatever came later sounds as though he was forever trying to tap into that primal source once more, and failing to do so.

In any case, as noted upthread, Van Morrison is no "hippie" (whatever that even means). The man sings about TB, a forlorn transvestite, a young girl dying from junk, an obsession with an underage girl, etc.

Who Was That Masked Man from VF is amazing, too. Van does falsetto...

Spent a lot of today listening to bits and pieces of Van / Them records - something which hasn't, i think, been mentioned is the lovely sense of geographical precision in which he places the 'eternal archetypes' - , 'that train from Dublin up to Sandy Row' (I think of that line everytime i go to Belfast), even earlier in the Story of Them ' the Spanish Rooms up on the Falls' 'the Blues rolling down Royal Avenue, all the way past City Hall' - then on to London 'Watch the sun rise over Notting Hill Gate' ' in Friday's Child.....

The Stones did this a bit, I guess, setting their pilfered Rn'B loose in London and watching it learn the language, but I think Van was the most pigheadedly local of that generation of RnB singers from these islands; even the way, when he's trying to sing American, it always slips back to Belfast. I think, in a way, this is what allows him to inhabit a 'deep haunted visionary place' so convincingly - he renders the ordinary and the particular transcendent by making it strange, forcing us to look, rather than by mystical generalisation..

Nicely put, and I agree. Something like the "objective correlative", maybe? Or maybe I'm completely misusing that term...

Interesting. Geography -- or specific namedropping -- does play quite a role. Later works like On Hyndfort Street...and then the photo on Hymns to the Silence filling in the rest for those of us with no idea where he's talking about. I often wonder if my old non-descript neighborhoods could be transformed that way. I've also loved how he'll mention Kerouac, Mezz Mezrow and his perennials William Blake, T.S. Eliot...

I always assume Masked Man is Morrison doing Curtis Mayfield. And Linden Arden blows me away...glad to see so many others are equally gripped.

For me it's always been his vocal tics and not necessarily the ones that Lester Bangs pointed out in his essay. In this day of computer looping of tracks and complete vocal lines being recorded once and then copied, it's so much more rewarding to hear vocals that are inspired and spontaneous and happen only once...for me, in Cyrpus Avenue when he sings "That little girl done something" (is that even what he's singing. I'm awful with this stuff). And the "Rainbow ribbons in her hair." There are so many quick turns of phrase.

I understand when others say they can't get into the later work, starting, I would guess, with Wavelength (though A Period of Transition is pretty spotty as well). But if you can accept that it is a bit more trying and forced than his earlier work there is stuff to hear. I'm fond of "Hungry for Your Love," "Take It Where You Find It," even "Natalia" which sounds like he's taking lessons from Boz Scaggs (not a bad thing, but not really Van's thing).

I think the reason it bothers me less is because I heard those records (Wavelength, Into the Music, Beautiful Vision) much earlier than Astral Weeks, Dominic, Fleece... so it was introductory and I didn't have any expectations. And I think you're always a bit forgiving to the records that introduce you to an artist, even if they pale later on. And I probalby hear them a little differently. The production just seems like it's there, but I could see how others already schooled in the differences might take stronger note of them.

I often wonder if my old non-descript neighborhoods could be transformed that way

believe me, the Streets of Arklow aren't all that descript. It's a wonder what he does to quite ordinary places.

I think, in a way, this is what allows him to inhabit a 'deep haunted visionary place' so convincingly - he renders the ordinary and the particular transcendent by making it strange, forcing us to look, rather than by mystical generalisation..

-- sonofstan, Thursday, 27 September 2007 22:26

This is so fucking OTM.

yup.

If you think you don't like Van Morrison, try the live record It's Too Late to Stop Now...unbelievably great

i find how assholish he apparently is part of the appeal, he seems like the least likeable major star like ever....yet he writes these really warm songs that are sort of intergenerational classics, it's odd....

from M@tt upthread and OTM. I always find it strange how such an angry miserable SOB could deliver such heartfelt & flat-out joyous music -- think Brown-Eyed Girl, Wild Nights, Jackie Wison Said, Angeliou, Tupelo Honey, etc. Must be some rare variant of the tears of a clown personality -- misanthropes make the best happy music.

I always find it strange how such an angry miserable SOB could deliver such heartfelt & flat-out joyous music

Yeah - i know people who've worked for him and it's no holiday camp.
I think really, we should take the line from Astral Weeks about being 'Nothin' but a stranger in this world' literally - he has the sensibility of an outsider artist but, rarely, the talent to express it; it may be that the world he makes is the only one he can live in.

'the talent to express it in a - relatively - conventional medium' i guess

He is almost like a comedy stereotype of the bad-tempered belligerent Ulster Proddie with 12 chips on each shoulder

new record is awesome

I like Gerry's opening post!

i didnt realize there were so many haters..on th new lost highway cd...which th russians have a copy of already..hes loose and sly and fun and fat and good and u should get it maybe

almost independence day is dope as fuck

glad to see this has turned into a veedon fleece lovefest. side 1 just blows me away every time. I managed to get it on CD a few years back after a cassette copy wasn't returned to me (never lend favourite albums, even to good friends). Don't know about current availability.

I wish the doing all of Astral Weeks live US tour was not so expensive(with first dibs to American Express car holders).

Veedon Fleece has come out remastered, with lyrics and two bonus cuts: Twilight Zone and an alternate take of Cul De Sac.

so sad that "Warm Love" clip got removed (a while ago, but still). the only CD I want to actually physically purchase these days is Saint Dominic's Preview--title track might be my favorite-ever Van recording.

Misspelled:
Van Morris(s)on: The Smooth Jazz Years

they used to play "best of van morrison" in the health food store EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DAY, till i was sure i would never ever voluntarily listen to the guy again. but a roommate a few years later on insisted i listened to veedon fleece before i wrote the guy off, and i'm glad he did cause it's now one of my all-time favorite albums. reading this thread makes me realize i need to track down some of his other stuff as well (now i'm trying to remember which album it was that i liked almost as much as VF)

I love "Real Real Gone." His eighties and late nineties work needs reevaluation.